LADIES (and gentlemen), Olympic GOLD Medalist Imane Khelif 🥇

"Khelif was born female but reportedly has XY chromosomes."

Oops, a loophole.

That’s a man, baby.

He's a cheat.

Does this mean I can compete in 2028?

Well, I've seen "rescue chick's" signature before, but I wasn't a follower so didn't realize she was a Fox News-talking-point-spewing pile of garbage. Anyway, by the time Imane and I are Rescue Chick's age, she will just be dust.

jasper hit man

So they both have XY chromosomes and are therefore male, r5?

R7, yes, they both have XY chromosomes and are male. This gives them a remarkable advantage in a sport like boxing, since men have superior upper-body strength.

He’s male. 5ARD 46 XY. May have been raised as a girl due to underdeveloped genitalia. He went through a male puberty.

Not swyers syndrome either. Swyers women have no ovaries or testicular and have to have medically induced puberty. Also women with swyers have bone density issues which would be a no go in boxing

Having DSD is not the same as being transgender. And fuck the right wing misogynists who suddenly care for women’s sports. However, having DSD, internal testes, XY chromosomes should be disqualifiers. I do feel for those raised female in poor countries who didn’t know they had a condition until they reached a certain level and raised suspicion. Sucks for them. But they do not belong in any women’s sport and certainly not in boxing. Anyone pretending that a male puberty doesn’t give an insurmountable advantage in sport is not being honest with themselves.

XY = Male. The chromosomes don’t lie.

These are such garbage arguments that are ONLY motivated by Far Right nonsense. She is a woman. And, frankly, any genetic advantage she had didn't always serve her -- she was a prior 9th place finisher.

I'm constantly shocked at how many gay men and women on this board align themselves with the Far Right. Oprah was right about... you know.. tick-tock.

[quote]Mokgadi Caster Semenya OIB (born 7 January 1991) is a South African middle-distance runner and winner of two Olympic gold medals[4] and three World Championships in the women's 800 metres

[quote]Following Semenya's victory at the 2009 World Championships, she was made to undergo sex testing, and cleared to return to competition the following year. The decision to perform sex testing sparked controversy in the sporting world and in Semenya's home country of South Africa. Later reports disclosed that Semenya has the intersex condition 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency and natural testosterone levels in the typical male range.

[quote]Semenya has said that she was born with a vagina and internal undescended testes, but that she has no uterus or fallopian tubes and does not menstruate. Her internal testes produce natural testosterone levels in the typical male range. Semenya has rejected the label of "intersex", calling herself "a different kind of woman."

All of sports is fundamentally about some people being born with physical attributes which make them "better" at that sport. Tall people have natural advantages in volleyball, rowing, and basketball, but fail miserably at gynmastics.

Semenya is probably an extreme example. She was actually medically tested and determined to have been a woman. Her physical advantages are not the product of intervention other than what any other athlete has access to.

Khelif - who knows.

But, rather than automatically defending or attacking, real policies should be enacted.

Michael Phelps won the genetic lottery, and, arguably, had an unfair genetic advantage over his competitors, but that doesn't fit into the Anti-trans loons' narrative, so no one cares.

You’re a liar R12/13/14.

Semenya is a male that’s been proven. His DSD condition on affects MALES. He has no vagina he has underdeveloped genitalia and internal testes.

The Phelps argument is stupid. He competed in his correct sex class, his records have been broken multiple times and if a girl had the similar advantages that Phelps had, she still wouldn’t beat any male that was on her level.

This is Semenyas condition.

R13 Semenya fathered 2 children. She had working internal tested that put her through a male puberty. That’s beyond the natural advantage of height. In boxing it’s even worse. The body composition of a 150lb woman is different than that of a man. A woman can never have the same musculature at the same weight. That’s not to mention the larger lungs and heart. The denser bones. The much greater upper body strength.

The delicate question is, "Who's going to play Imane in the made for tv movie?" Does the role go to a woman or man?

I’m a big boxing fan. My uncle has a gym. Katie Taylor is #4 in my list of all time great boxers. She’s a stunning fighter. She was instrumental is getting women’s boxing into the Olympics. It took years to get paid her due and it’s still a pittance compared to the men. If she ever faced an XY fighter she would lose 9/10. Which means no money, no sponsorship, no belts, no career. As much as I loathe the right wingers (who used to laugh at women’s boxing, boo during fights and try to get it banned) using it to further their cause, I’m equally annoyed at so called progressives lying. I don’t believe that a single one would look me in the eye and say they would let their sister/daughter into the ring with an XY fighter who had a male puberty.

World's greatest woman beater in his weight class

She looks pretty when she can put on makeup to cover her five o'clock shadow.

XY is not a woman. Self defined gender is not a valid argument. Human rights to all. Women only in sports where women only want to compete with other women.

Whatever whatever. I think that the females should refuse to box them. Any time a trans wants to dominate females in competition ( and it’s always males) say no. Make a big stink about it. These things don’t wander off by themselves. Make them unwelcome. God knows THEY never feel I comfortable. Why can’t they box agains men? Fuck them.

God, I'm starting to wonder if Muriel is actually Rupert Murdoch. I can't wait until we have greater digital literacy and the Boomers have shuffled off this mortal coil.

I'm left-leaning since birth, and I am uncomfortable with XY fighting XX. It's a common sense issue. The right-wingers have subsumed the issue into it's demonology playbook, but there's plenty of us normal folk who can see plain as day that it makes no sense to lump XY chromosome folk in with women in sports. This should never be allowed. How does this not compute for people?

The women who were beaten by this person should be allowed to go to court where all relevant evidence is presented and if there has been fraud, then everyone responsible, including this person, be held accountable.

[quote][R13] Semenya fathered 2 children. She had working internal tested that put her through a male puberty.

I hadn't found that information. Clearly, I was working off old information.

[quote]That’s beyond the natural advantage of height.

I concur and believe that Semenya should be stripped of Olympic and World titles.

But, my final position stands. They need to develop real policies that consider such situations and enforce them consistently. What we have now is not sustainable.

Is Semenya different from Ts? I don't know. But, there are doctors, researchers, and developmental scientists who would have valid opinions on the matter who should be consulted. This is a medical and scientific question in the same manner that doping and steroid use is and should NOT be a political matter for further the agenda of either side.

Where is the evidence that this athlete has an xy chromosome? I thought the only info we had was from the discredited Russian panel—why are we assuming it is legit, given that the Olympic committee threw them out?

I hope he accidentally bumps into a 6'5" dyke with anger issues and she kicks his ass into oblivion. Kick him in the nuts for good measure because he has them.

Shoulders of a linebacker.

[quote] I do feel for those raised female in poor countries who didn’t know they had a condition until they reached a certain level and raised suspicion. Sucks for them.

The way people all over social media think that Algerians are a bunch of poorly educated yokels who have no idea about typical menstruation unlike enlightened Americans is hilarious.

It’s largely NOT the “far-right”, in American terms, denouncing Imane. It’s more nuanced. Much of the support for Imane has been driven by anti-colonial, anti-French sentiments throughout Africa and the Middle East. The most chauvinist, macho, Muslim guys you can imagine were her biggest cheerleaders.

[quote] I don’t believe that a single one would look me in the eye and say they would let their sister/daughter into the ring with an XY fighter who had a male puberty.

My mother had to stop horseplaying football etc with my brothers and I once we were barely pubescent, age 11 or so. It was just too dangerous for her.

It’s a fucking joke.

I’m glad that all the people who diagnosed her as transgender a week ago (without bothering to do a one-minute Google search to determine whether it was even possible to change sex in Algeria) now have access to the boxer’s genetic chart and have developed world class expertise in the implications of that genetic makeup. Bravo!

R27, both boxers (Khelif and Lin) were disqualified from a major tournament last year in the grounds that tests showed them to have XY chromosomes. Apparently they had been tested twice, in 2022 and in 2023, with identical results. They did not pursue appeals of the disqualifications. Obviously, they would have had every incentive to do so.

[quote] Semenya is probably an extreme example. She was actually medically tested and determined to have been a woman.

A woman with internal testes, no ovaries (the organs that produce estrogen) and masculine levels of testosterone? Huh.

Caster is intersex. It doesn’t matter, really, whether she categorises herself as a woman or a man, she can identify however she wants. In athletic terms, she should not compete against women.

The same applies to someone with a DSD like Imane.

[quote] Where is the evidence that this athlete has an xy chromosome? I thought the only info we had was from the discredited Russian panel—why are we assuming it is legit, given that the Olympic committee threw them out

Because the IOC has probably less credibility than a “discredited Russian panel”, being one of if not the most corrupt international organisations - more than FIFA, more than the FIA. Ask yourself why all those Chinese athletes who tested positive to performance enhancing drugs were allowed to compete in Tokyo.

And because the IOC refuses to nip this in the bud by doing a sex test.

I stand with rescue-chick.

Hmm.

Trans activists were the ones claiming people were going after him as transgender. No people could see an obvious male. He was tested by two separate labs, one in India and one in turkey and it was the same result. Both labs are independent of any sports organization but are certified by the court of sports arbitration and the world anti doping association.

When the story started to break the IOC tried to frame it as an anti trans issue but reversed course and said it was a DSD issue.

You now have the head of the IOC lying to the press and claiming there are no scientific tests that can truly determine male or female. The IOC also said because it says female on his passport then he is female.

I remember someone commenting about a video where you could clearly see he was arranging his junk. And no, we're not talking camel toe. If I find it, I'll post it.

I wonder: does the WNBA do sex testing? Griner looks and sounds XY for sure. There may be a number of intersex males in women’s sports already, but the ones with more feminine features don’t stand out like Semenya, Khelif, and Griner do.

I refuse to believe anyone here really gives a fuck about boxing, but if there's a chance to punch down, it'll always be taken with feverish excitement.

You're right, I am not a big boxing fan. But I give a fuck about fairness, R41. Which is what we are really talking about, and you know this.

Are you suggesting that we simply abolish gender distinctions in sports? There is a reason that sporting competitions have been divided along gender lines from time immemorial. And that reason is the overwhelming and numerous biological advantages that men have against women.

Navigating these matters requires a great deal of sensitivity, but also we must follow where plain common sense and reason leads. XY = male advantage. It's not bigotry, it's not a lack of empathy, it's not cruelty. XY= male advantage. And if we are going to ignore that, we may as well start allowing men and women to compete in all Olympic competitions. Women will lose every competition, every time, for the rest of human history, of course. But at least you, R41, will be able to celebrate the JUSTICE of it all.

[quote]I refuse to believe anyone here really gives a fuck about boxing

Only a simpleton would believe that this discussion is about "boxing" nor is it about punching down.

The question is a broader one of fairness and equity. Sports isn't just about grit and training. I could train for my entire life and I'm NEVER going to break 10 seconds in the 100m. I am never going to come close to being copetitive in the 100 Fly even at the D2 or D3 level, let alone Olympics. Some people are physically superior.

The question is where to draw the line on "physically" superior. You cannot erase biology - men are generally taller and stronger. Years ago Serena Williams noted that she wouldn't even be ranked within the top 100 men professionally at a time when she was dominant among women.

The issue here isn't boxing. It's about whether Khelif should be allowed to compete against women. Is it a natural physical superiority enhanced by training. Top-class male marathoners: 70–85 mL/kg/min. The average adult: 30–45 mL/kg/min. That is a natural advantage. Being born a man, but competing against women is not. Whether being XY should be addressed by international sporting authorities, not left to whichever side screams the loudest.

It's about concern trolling.

Do all of you Gender Police think Khelif should have competed with her shirt off, like a man?

I thought not.

I notice that the Khelif critics here are much better informed about this issue and the Khelif defenders are mostly just relying on "you're anti-trans," "you're a right-winger," "you're just punching down," etc.

R45 Good point.

Next they'll be saying some butch lesbians need to be investigated.

R46 Sure if "better informed" means copying from a few right wing rags.

It's not anti trans, as Khelif isn't trans (not sure if they understand that, though).

Right winger, yes. Punching down, yes.

I feel bad for the boxer, but it’s unfair for someone with a DSD to compete against XX women. As for right wing pundits who can’t name a non-intersex female athlete in boxing to save their lives, their manufactured outrage over this (and other trivial crap like “the war on Christmas”), I can’t complain because it serves as the playpen that keeps toddlers of the right occupied so that the adults on the left can work on more urgent social problems like housing, education, healthcare, etc.

R49, women’s rights are not some “playpen” thing, though.

R50 If Project 2025 are elected, they’ll implement a national ban on abortion beginning at conception and diminish the voting power of “childless cat ladies.” If Harris/Walz are elected, they’ll restore women’s reproductive rights and protect their voting rights too. So if you’re American and care about women’s rights, vote accordingly.

No R48 plenty of people here know how DSD conditions work. 46 XY 5-ARD isn’t a right wing talking point. Two tests in 2 years at 2 different labs that aren’t connected to any sporting body had the same result.

R51, I’m not right-wing. There’s no way in HELL that I would vote for Trump, or any Republican candidate.

I'll just leave this here. Perhaps his attorney should have chosen a less inciteful term than "online lynching." Oh well, now let's sit back and watch the real games begin.

R54. There really is no limit to your vileness, is there? There is a legitimate debate to be had about gender transitions and about whether women with XY ( which no one knows with certainty she has) should compete against XX women, but you revel in demeaning her by calling her a man even though that is what she has never known herself to be just so you can indulge your taste for cruelty. Repugnant

Can she fix a Subaru?

“Clean Sport” must require that male athletes not be allowed to compete in a women only sporting event.

R55, if you had bothered to read about this man or if you had bothered to even read the thread, you would know Khelif has XY chromosomes.

"Khelif was one of two boxers to fail a gender eligibility test ahead of the 2023 World Boxing Championships. Those competitions are sanctioned by the IBA, and it was the same group that administered the tests. The IBA said that these tests revealed that Khelif has XY chromosomes, which are most commonly found in males."

You may want to know some of the facts before you allow your incredibly low EQ to overrule whatever modicum of common sense you may possess.

"

[quote]Can she fix a Subaru?

She’s not a lesbian, because it’s illegal to be gay in Algeria. Similar to how being trans is illegal in Algeria.

Where is the evidence that Caster Semenya "fathered" two children? I only see that the couple has two children, one of them conceived through artificial insemination. (I didn't see anything specifically about how they got the second one.)

R58. So you are comfortable not only outing yourself as a vicious bigot but also as a moron with the gullibility of a child? I may well have read as much on the topic as you, but I realize the fact that somebody has posted something on the internet does not necessarily make it true. You may want to keep that in mind next time you attempt to read. (As you know, it was also widely reported she was transgender which, was also stupid.) Yes, she was disqualified, but the reason for the disqualification was never confirmed, and is often assumed to have been a failed testosterone test, and not a genetic test.

I know that between your enormous stupidity and your unbelievable foulness, you have much ground for self-hatred, but could you consider treating that self-hatred by some other means than stigmatizing someone you assume is different based on what you assume to be an inborn difference. You are repugnant.

As far as rumors go, that Semenya fathered children is implausible because it’s much easier to go to a sperm bank than to harvest semen from the internal testes of an intersex person. But I guess if someone is determined enough to be the biological parent, who knows. Like R60 said, it’s never been reported by the media that Semenya literally fathered her child.

R61, your posts reveal more about you than they ever will about me.

Has it ever occurred to you that Mr. Khelif and his ilk are only pretending to be "whatever" because they cannot compete and win against other males?

Have a lovely day and please don't bother to respond. Such sensitive unhinged types such as yourself are always in danger of stroking out. How sad to become so agitated when confronted by innocuous posts on the internet. What does that say about you, dear?

[quote]you are comfortable not only outing yourself as a vicious bigot but also as a moron with the gullibility of a child?

Settle down, Beavis.

It’s called DSD instead of intersex because of the connotation that someone is equal parts of both sexes. Semenya is male and his DSD condition has to do with the underdevelopment of his genitalia. Males with this condition can father children and don’t have a female reproductive system.

Semenya hasn’t confirmed or denied the children but confirmed he has internal testes.

Khelifs trainer confirms XY chromosomes and high testosterone

Documents in the case, including the two test results, are said to have been seen by at least one sports writer, so they are likely to become public.

O shocker! The cheat is a liar too?!!?? 😲

R63. Ah, I see. Her family hatched a plan from birth to pass their son off as a woman in the hope of giving their son an edge as a future boxer. This is brilliant! Why didn’t this occur to me? Especially, given the precedent of the Obama’s falsifying those sins birth certificate for a planned presidency.

I also realize now, despite what scientists say, a person with XY chromosomes can never grow up with female sex characteristics. I still think you are a reprehensible human being, but i do at least now recognise your intellectual brilliance. Do you teach? And in which subject? Science, history..?

Are we even sure Khelif has a DSD? The male circumcision rate in Algeria is 98%. With a rate that high, surely there are some “slip-ups” here and there. Just sayin’.

Nobody knows anything other than that she has been identified as female from birth, not transgender., and met the requirements to compete as a woman at the olympics. Whether she has any sexual abnormality, no one knows.

[quote]Semenya hasn’t confirmed or denied the children

Untrue. Semenya and wife have spoken to the press about using artificial insemination for at least the first one. I suppose they didn't bother saying it for the second one because it was just the same thing again.

But they didn’t say if it was casters semen r72.

Unbelievable.

"A female boxer who trained with Imane Khelif has come forward to assert that Khelif 'is a man.'

Joana Nwamerue says the Algerian team tried to convince her that Khelif was simply a woman whose chromosomes had been altered by living in the mountains."

Reduxx is ran by a mega homophobe - specifically anti gay men. I've had run-ins with her on Twitter. Heh.

[quote]Joana Nwamerue says the Algerian team tried to convince her that Khelif was simply a woman whose chromosomes had been altered by living in the mountains.

Trans men will be flicking to those mountains now.

^^flocking

Imagine going to all the trouble of taking hormones and getting surgery when you could just go for a hike instead.

Remember the part in “Heidi” when she gets masculinized by the Alps and joins the Swiss bobsled team and wins gold? It’s like that.

R76 if they get their wish they'll also be flicking soon.

No it’s not r76. It’s a female/feminist issues page

Where exactly are these Algerian mountains?

Why respond to the "Imane Khelif is a women" troll, who has the intelligence of a gnat and the debating skills of a sloth.