It’s happening - “Knots Landing” streaming August 13th on Plex

Does YouTubeTV carry Plex ?

We're all still waiting for them to carry MeTv Cartoons to watch all the Looney Tunes and Merry Melodies cartoons.

The Primetime Soaps by WB channel is also airing on Freevee. Laura Johnson is cunting it up as Terry right now. Simon MacCorkindale is in this episode, too.

Vee, who’s in the biz, arranged this.

This isn’t entirely ideal as it’s not available on demand. It feels a bit archaic to only be able to watch this live with commercials but it’s a step in the right direction.

I would love to see ‘80s Another World streaming somewhere. Very nostalgic.

Knots kicks off at 8:19pm EST.

I think they skipped season 4 completely.

NVM, they just ran a single episode from a later season by mistake. Loving watching this again.

I work from home a couple days a week and I have it playing as background. I’d like to think my viewership will singlehandedly signal to a streamer they should license it and make it available on demand. A guy can dream. R8- I was very thrown when the show jumped seasons out of the blue. Glad it was just a mistake.

I don't understand the logic of running a soap opera back to back continuously like this. Is anyone really going to binge watch for 344 hour straight? You're going to miss huge chunks of time so it will soon stop making sense. Who's that blond stealing Laura's husband. Who's this guy married to Karen now? Whatever happened to Kenny and Ginger? Are Eric and Diana dead? Ugh. They did this also with Dark Shadows.

You can watch most sitcoms in any order you want, or a variety show, or maybe even a procedural cop/doctor show -- but not a soap. This really should have been on demand, even if that meant with commercials.

I'm not complaining. There's been something very comforting about these well-written, well-acted early seasons. And all the seeds of what was to come were sewn from the beginning. Good stuff.

Some believe they’re testing it for viewership and interest before deciding to have it available on demand.

Doesn't look like they are running the entire series in order in one chunk. Likely a few seasons then repeat

We're on the Ciji season now. Chip was such an asshole. I can't wait for Lilimae to mow his ass down.

R12- If that’s true, this feels like a doomed test. Who even watches Plex and Freevee? Knots is like buried treasure on these streamers. It’s very hard to find.

As with the DVD releases, it's been mishandled. Either someone is determined to make this show forgotten or it just has terrible luck.

We never get the good shit in Canada.

R5 First, someone would have to cough up the cash to have all that 80s content digitized for streaming. Talk to the guy in charge of Retro TV (now It's Real Good TV) who explained everything they had to do get all those years of The Doctors up and running for streaming, post-broadcast on their regular TV channel.

R18- in what world would The Doctors be a more lucrative undertaking than Knots Landing which at least had great production values and is more current?

I was watching another streaming show on Plex and they just randomly inserted the commercials in the middle of sentences. Hard pass.

[quote]Does YouTubeTV carry Plex ?

Plex is not a cable channel, it's a streaming service. The app and streaming are free. You can get it with your smart TV, Amazon Firestick, Roku, etc.

No issues on Freevee.

R19 My comment had nothing to do with comparing The Doctors to Knots Landing.

My post referenced the reply about Another World and I was using the experience that Retro's been going through with The Doctors from that same era.

Of course, Knots Landing would be more lucrative that The Doctors. Being a prime time show, it would have a larger potential audience than some old soap like The Doctors. Plus, Knots Landing is only 344 episodes, and one imagines the original media is in good condition. That's not even a year and half worth of episodes from an old daytime soap like The Doctors or Another World.

R20, yes that's true. Tubi does it also which is weirder since all their stuff is On Demand. It must be automated because no one in their right mind was mark mid-sentence for a commercial break. Tubi is not as bad as Plex with those breaks however; theirs are just goofy. For example I'm watching the old 80s sitcom "Too Close for Comfort" on my lunch break at work. About 7 min or so into the episode there's a break, but it is at the end of the scene. The goofy part is when the episode resumes about 2 minutes later there's a natural break where it's clear the original episodes were inserted. I wish Knots Landing had gone to Tubi instead, but still happy that it's available at all.

Plex is a mess. It's probably the worst streaming service I've encountered.

I've come to the conclusion that its name is short for COMPLEX.

I am in eldergay heaven. I have kept in on in the background all day while I clean. Val was such a wimp-jeez

It's a shame that no one has mentioned that the obtrusive breaks are not an issue on Freevee.

I, too, am in eldergay heaven R26 . Gary was hotter than hell in his jailbird jumpsuit.

I'd forgotten how layered and moving Laura and Richard's story was.

Season 5 just started, and it's about to go full on soap opera.

R27 - And I forgotten what a nutjob Gary was. He almost went full Fatal Attraction on Abby, sniffing her up and down right in front of Val. He really did look like he was about to lose his mind when they took a break from their affair. WTF, Gary, Abby wasn't your first mistress. She wasn't even his first on the show.

The episode where Lilimae runs over that asshole Chip with her big ass Ford LTD is on now.

Diana is more hatable than Chip-was there a more obnoxious prime time soap character?

I'd rather just spend $100 and buy a bootleg set of the entire series. Plex is bullshit.

What a horrible way to present something.

You have to watch 24/7 for how many days in a row? Two weeks?

Asinine.

There are a few reasons why it's tougher to stream daytime soaps. Except for Days, YR, Dark Shadows, The Doctors, and everything that premiered after 1980, the shows wiped all the episodes before 1979. They don't have full catalogs.

There are also issues with videotape. The main issue is that being recorded on videotape, it's almost impossible to separate the voice track from the music track. It was all done together. During the 80s, most soaps incorporated popular music without paying licensing fees because they just didn't know any better, and no one complained. Now, you can't play that stuff without having to pay high licensing fees.

Another issue with videotape is that some of it has corroded over the years, and digitizing tens of thousands of episodes for very little return is no easy task. Unfortunately, the audience for a 1967 episode of The Secret Storm is very niche and dwindling with each passing day, and may not make enough money in advertising to even pay for the cost of digitizing it. I think Another World had a 0.0 rating on Soap Net. It's a business; there has to be some return for them to want to invest.

Primetime soaps do better, but networks lose flexibility because of the serialized nature of these shows. And some think that an audience is not going to get caught up in something that they have to watch each episode. It's easier to run a stand-alone episode of Gunsmoke or Perry Mason.

If the money was there, there would be a classic soap channel.

As a wee gayling, I remember being so upset with just how MEAN Gary and Abby were to Val during their affair. It was sadistic. Of course Abby would remain mean to Val throughout the entire run, almost gleeful at her misfortune. Abby thought Val was pathetic and rolled her eyes at her at every chance. I hated how little they interacted in the later years. They basically had a couple scenes a year together which I guess made them more powerful (versus, say, Krystle and Alexis who fought practically every episode).

[quote]Abby thought Val was pathetic and rolled her eyes at her at every chance.

Best way to show off her elaborate eyeshadow.

Oddly though, Abby was surprisingly comforting to Poor Val when everyone thought Jill's attack was a suicide attempt. And Abby did have a tiny ping of regret over her inadvertent involvement with Val's babies being stolen. Other than that, yes, Abby laughed at Val for the childlike, backwater simpleton she was.

[quote] Diana is more hatable than Chip-was there a more obnoxious prime time soap character?

Which is what made her incredibly believable as Karen's daughter. Claudia Lonow was not a great actress, but she held her own well enough and was smartly cast as Lee's difficult, suburban princess offspring. Far more believable than surfer boy Michael (Pat Peterson) who looked a lot more like Donna Mills than either of the Brians.

Lonow, coincidentally, went on to have a successful behind-the-scenes career in Hollywood working. And she's also the step-sister to actor Michael Rapaport. Her step-father (Lonow) owner the Improv.

My favorite are the TRAVILLA years.

R32, Sanra Barbara has full episodes in English online already. No degrade in quality. I think it's true for all soaps that they're was always someone digitizing them since they aired before.

The issues with music copyrights is huge though. Also, Sony occasionally pulls these episodes down and the uploaders try again.

R34 LMAO. I’ve been watching for the past 16 hours or so and have been very entertained by her bold choices in eye makeup and clothing.

I’m loving that they aren’t afraid to kill-off a character. Gary has just been killed.

Oh shit. I probably shouldn’t have spoiled that. I’m sorry.

I've been watching for several days. We're near the end of season 5. Gary has been "murdered" by the Wolfbridge Group, Ben is missing and presumed dead, Val is WAY pregnant, and one of the great TV season finales is on the horizon.

Hey R42 im right here with you! Let’s have a watch party.

Sanra who?

That bitch Abby stole my act!

All involved were so successful at creating the palpable, creeping dread of Wolfbridge. Writing, performances, music, direction.

R46 - Yes, but it's like they wrote themselves into a corner. The resolution the next season (Greg rescuing Abby) was pretty silly and anti-climactic. While it's no Moldavian Massacre, I think that great cliffhanger left them stumped as to how to resolve it rationally. Karen's being shot and Val nearly going boom were also resolved lickety-split, as if none of it ever happened.

I can't really complain. It was certainly their big attempt at a water cooler finale, but they rolled pretty quickly into the "Val's babies" season, which was (to me) another high mark for writing and performances.

The cliffhangers were never as good after season 6. Karen’s kidnapping was a big “who cares.” The cement crack was just ok. Val’s attempted murder was a riveting episode but the Mexico storyline was the worst. Seasons 5 and 6 cliffhangers were BANGERS.

I love the Peter in cement story-watching Donna Mills drag and bury a corpse in 1980s Escada is pure camp.

I love when Abby dumps Peter’s car at the airport, then takes a city bus to return home to Malibu late at night, wearing a scarf and dark glasses.

I also loved the Peter buried in cement story (and the ensuing murder mystery that did NOT cop out by having the killer be some throwaway minor character). But that whole story borrowed heavily from "The Gazebo" (1960) and "Mildred Pierce" (1945). Not complaining, however. They took old stories and twisted them to suit their own telling with their own characters.

I've never been able to look at a receipt spike the same way again...

I am having trouble with plex - Knots is on my watchlist but not available - I am determined to get the streaming channel going. Has Val had the babies yet? I have a ton of laundry and house stuff to do so I want to get it on in the backround ..,,

Hard to believe that fresh-faced, hot-assed Alec Baldwin became such a hideous toad man.

Ah … I just got it on - Val is in a maternity dress! Yippee! …. I don’t remember what happened to Karen …

R53 it’s on the live tv section under “daytime television”

I meant r52 above. R53 I think he’s hotter now, but I also have daddy issues

R53 I actually mean he was hotter as Jack on 30 Rock than any other time. I just googled what he looks like today and you are correct. He went from Daddy bear to Daddy toad pretty quickly

R55, that’s another head shaker: the channel uses prime time in its name but to find the channel you have to look under daytime.

MY BABIES!

VAL!!!!! THEY TOOK THE BAYYYBIES!!!!!!!

The show grinds to a halt everytine Cathy Geary starts singing whatever was #12 on the Billboard Hot 100 in 1984.

I am curious how Amazon's experiment is going with the Australian soap Neighbours. They bought the entire catalogue past and present and airs it all on Freevee. I'm not aware of any attention here in the US, but I appreciate that a streamer invests into an ongoing daily soap. And that soap is LGBT heaven. Doesn't Peacock have a daily soap, too? It's a great way to retain viewers - if the show has any viewers.

R62 I started watching Neighbours about six months ago when I read they were going to kill off gay "David" leaving his husband "Aaron" a widower. I'd previously watched some of this longstanding couple's clips over the years on youtube, so was familiar with the characters. I looked forawrd to Aaron be freed.

I believe when Amazon took it over, they said they were guaranteeing that Neighbours would continue for at least two years, with 200 episodes per year. (Neighbours always had an annual break even in its other incarnation.) So I guess we'll find out if its popular enough to continue at that point.

But when I started watching back in February, I decided to watch the entire show. I really like it. It's a brisk 18 minutes because their player doesn't seem to care that I have adblocker on, so it skips right through the commercials. There's an interesting business story going involving the soap's hotel called Lassiter's and I find it better than the typical business stories on American soaps. Sex lies and videotape. Article about that from last week below.

btw - The daily soap on Peacock is Days of our Lives, although I think they're down to just one gay guy now. (I don't watch it as a rule.) .. And about a month ago, Lime Pictures in the UK decided to put their Channel 4 soap, Hollyoaks, on youtube with no geo-blocking. This move is to expand the audience now that soap will soon be going from five episodes per week to three. There are currently five gay male characters on that soap. I've been watching Hollyoaks since 2006 with my VPN.

Christ, I hated Lisa Hartman. If you thought Lilimae playing the zither and warbling Will the Circle Be Unbroken, it was nothing compared to Hartman atonally vomiting up Open Arms.

Aw, y'all hating on Kathy/Ciji must not remember the vocal stylings of Ginger Ward, the Chanteuse of Seaview Circle.

They skipped episode 14 of season 6. Kathy must've sung an actual hit on that one, and they couldn't clear the music rights.

Isn't playing a song in a drama show pretty much the equivalent of dead air on radio? Often they overlay the song to show drama, for example Ciji dead at the beach. And that works well to string the drama along. But showing Ciji or Afton just singing for thirty seconds is like a commercial break where the story simply comes to a halt. It's not very engaging. As a viewer you can just wait that the story resumes.

Being a singer is a very popular profession on all soaps. I guess it's meant for audience member whose inner child is still holding a hairbrush in the mirror pretending they're a star. Sometimes it's also about the actor wanting everyone to know he/she has Broadway credentials or is just multi-talented.

I always wondered about all the other neighbors in that cul-de-sac we never saw. Were they disliked? Or maybe those homeowners chose not to mingle with the Fairgates, Ewings, Averys, and Wards because they all seemed like a bunch half-witted drama queen assholes.

"Seriously, Hank, the police are here AGAIN!"

Who would want to associate themselves with neighbors with that constant drama? Every one or two years somebody died and the whole neighborhood got dragged down. No thanks!

While on neighborhood walks, you'd have to contstantly be on watch for cars speeding in and out of the cul de sac at all hours of the day and night

Now I want a thread "Let's Be The Other Neighbors on Seaview Circle"

The man who owned the house next to “Val’s house” was pissed that his home wasn’t used for the other characters, so he parked a giant , obnoxious RV in his driveway that is always present in the background.

I keep noticing how oddly the characters park their cars in the cul de sac. Normally, people living in a home like this would park their two cars side by side in the driveway. But these people stack park, or park with half of their car protuding into the sidewalk or street, or avoid the driveway altogether and park on the street. That hick Valene parked her car at an angle with the car in the way of traffic. One you see it you can’t help but notice it. I assume it’s related to camera angles but it looks unnatural.

R73, once you hear that story you can never not see that RV.

I've been noticing the RV in every season (Val and Kathy just jogged past it) and I kind of love it.

The Fishers have just shown up, and there’s the babies.

They have no idea that their perfect suburban life is about to be turned upside down by a hick and her lunatic neighbors.

[quote]They have no idea that their perfect suburban life is about to be turned upside down by a hick and her lunatic neighbors

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[quote] I assume it’s related to camera angles but it looks unnatural.

The other minor things about cars on this show (and most of this era) is that nobody has a rearview mirror. LOL

[quote] her lunatic neighbors

Might be why the Mad magazine parody called it Knuts Lusting.

I like how they all drove normal cars. I think Abby was the only one with a Mercedes.

^ That reminds me... how the hell did Abby ever afford that house? Was Jeff Cunningham rich? She had, what, 3-4 bedrooms on a cul-de-sac with the beach literally in her backyard. I know Miss Ellie bought the Ewing house, but the rest of them must have been secret millionaires.

And something else I noticed when watching the early years. Kenny and Ginger were quarreling over her wanting a career (as a singer no less). Ginger already had a career. She was a schoolteacher. Presumably she had a degree and held that job for some time (despite her being so young) to have a whole class to herself. I guess she stopped caring about other people's kids when she pushed out Molly into the world.

Laura had a crappy old Datsun station wagon in the beginning, with missing hubcaps. Richard tried to gift her a Buick Regal one Christmas-only to find that her boss who wanted to fuck her gave her a new Mercedes S Class as a bonus.

Abby rented that house, and back then, the housing costs weren’t that crazy. I remember my parents rented a house very similar to Vals in 1983 in Orange County, and the rent was $850/month. Also, I bet Sid (and then Gary) helped her.

I had no idea that Laura was sleeping with random guys or that Syd had a first wife and a daughter who slept with Kenny her first night in town.

R93 - I get what you're saying although I don't remember anything about her renting the house, but that's plausible. However, keep in mind that $850/month in September 1980 equals nearly $3,200 today. Plus, was your parents home in a cul-de-sac and on oceanfront? Abby was a bookkeeper for her brother's one local garage. Sid might have helped her, but he also (presumably) had alimony and child support from his first wife, three kids and a stay-at-home wife, and a business with several employees all to keep afloat at a time when inflation and taxes were brutal.

Yes, it's just a TV show. But it simply makes me want to throw one of Laura's shady eyerolls.

For you bitches who figured out Plex-Val is about to find her BAY BEES

Yes! I am here waiting for the Bridge Tournament bust - it is many hours in the making that I have enjoyed waiting for the BAYBEES!!! ….. PS Alec Baldwin has Wolfman Like Chest hair!!

Uber cunt Ruth Sumner Galveston is a 15 on the Abby Scale.

Ruth is a big hairy cunt. You can see why Claudia smothered her with a pillow or whatever it is she did to her.

I love watching Abby concoct a story on the fly when her back is against a wall.

Val’s crooked OBGYN is about to blow his brains out to keep from listening to Karen’s bitching and hectoring.

Dr. Ackerman was named after someone who worked on the show/

[quote] Val’s crooked OBGYN is about to blow his brains out to keep from listening to Karen’s bitching and hectoring.

We know the feeling.

Lord Jesus they done found the babies!

Barefoot, fucked up hair, shirt tied at the midriff, pedal pushers-Val looks like Daisy Mae Yoakum in this episode.

Why did tv networks used to show then entire episode in a preview RIGHT BEFORE it aired? Why was that a thing?

R95 - It was a teaser trailer to get prospective viewers intrigued as well as to assure loyal fans it wasn't going to be a Kenny/Ginger episode.

R91 - The evil Dr. Mitch Ackerman was named after Production Manager Mitch Ackerman, who I would assume had a sense of humor.

I suspect the show did this occasionally with other characters / real life backstage crew as an inside wink and nod.

My God was this show fantastic. The fact this isn’t on demand is torture. I have hope that WBD will make this available on Max soon after this run. It’s all over my socials. A guy can dream.

This is taking forever and I need to pick up a package. How many episodes do they drag this out? Is there going to be a fucking trial?

I live with and take care of my 87 year old mom who has painful arthritis in her legs so it is hard for her to walk. She also has light dementia. I found the channel in the afternoon yesterday and she had been contentedly GLUED (except potty breaks) since yesterday. She watched it during the original run and this is totally soothing her. EXCEPT - a few hours ago she called me into her room upset - she told me that I HAD to call SOMEONE and tell them about the babies!!! …… Agreed - MAX - please start streaming!!!

You bitches have brought your A game with the recapping of the Knots rewatch. The comments about Karen and Val alone have been wonderful.

Nowadays, if a couple of deranged hicks were hanging out in a city park screaming “THOSE ARE MUH BAYBEES” at the hapless frau living across from the park, people would assume they homeless and on drugs.

In 1985, it’s just Val and Lilimae.

Mack has been yelling for the past several episodes that “I DON’T HAVE ANY TIME!!”

But he did have time to go to the Jeep dealership and replace the Grand Wagoneer Karen wrecked with a new, smaller Wagoneer.

Fucking finally! She got her babies.

I’m exhausted! That was STILL wonderful, wasn’t it?

In an alternate time-warped universe, Cathy/Ciji would’ve been somewhere singing “Finally” by Cece Peniston.

Or “Somebody’s Baby” by Jackson Browne

Speaking of shitty Lisa Hartman performances...

Anyone ever seen Tabitha?

R108 thank you so much for bringing this into my world. I never knew this show existed. all of this is before my time. I only became a fan of Lisa Hartman yesterday after watching her sing “Open Arms”

Been binge watching this weekend. Valene finally got her brats back. Her boyfriend Ben is cute but I had forgotten what a whiny, slightly unhinged asshole he was.

^^yes, but it’s very entertaining when he goes off the deepend next season and chokes out Lilimae

Uh - is Gary “Dry Drunk?” - it looked like he was having the DTs - or as Val calls him “Geery!”

Ok - so I am the only idiot still awake at almost 2 am watching Lisa Hartman rocking out to Dancing in the Streets? . I have been waiting for Joshua’s final melt down ….. I thought that the guy playing Frank Elliott looked familiar. he was the Dos Equis Man - “The Most Interesting Man in the World.”

Knots was a binge series before binge series were a thing.

The next seasons pick up directly without a time jump so it's now hard to remember what the big season cliffhangers were

The last week has been like getting together with old friends whose company you actually enjoy, and can't remember why you lost touch.

I’ve heard Alec Baldwin say shitty things on his podcast about Knots and the caliber or actors/writing on the show.

He is horrible on the show. Joshua was supposed to be a sheltered religious kid from Tennessee, and Baldwin plays the role like a Long Island asshole (so he plays himself).

For those of you watching at home-did Lilimae throw him off the roof yet?

I was a very casual viewer of Knots during its original run.

Alec was a standout on the show, but I missed then that he came on supposed to be a naive farm boy. No wonder the writers quickly moved the character to be more like Alec in real life. And his exit from the show wasn't his plan.

This marathon is also surprising in that they kept Gary and Val together so much through the run of the show, even despite during his marriage to Abby

Lilimae's Zither is the name of my new punk band! 🤣

Knot's was possibly the last major television credit for AB before he transitioned to feature films. IMHO, his portrayal of Joshua screamed "Movie Star". And that's what happened, (for awhile, anyway).

Yes Joshua backed his whimpering self off of the roof as with Cathy and Lilimae wailing at about 2am this morning.

What then was Alec's first major TV credit? I think for TV he was basically one and done before moving to movies.

After The Doctors for two years, it was Cutter to Houston!

He was on a soap, The Doctors, for three years

Alec has said very good things about KL and the actors on it in the past, so I would be surprised if he trashed it.

Unfortunately, when Retro was wrapping up it's digitization project for The Doctors in 2023, they announced that Colgate had mistakenly thought they possessed episodes right up to the very end (December 1982). But it turns out, that the last two+ years no longer exist, so only some of the episodes that Baldwin did from 1980-82 were made available. Their project ends with the September 29, 1980 episode, which Baldwin happens to appear in.

The episode airing right now, Phoenix Rising, is the one of the absolute best. It is the ultimate showcase for Donna Mills and it is maybe Abby at her best. The walls are closing in on her, and it all culminates at a gala where the whole cast is assembled. It is top notch drama. This is catnip for gay men who love to see a bitch on wheels be put thru the ringer and come out victorious. And Ted Shackelford has maybe never been hotter.

I was hoping that episode would be on tonight r126! Is that the one where she’s wearing the 80stastic gold and black dress, and Peter, Greg and Olivia all try to blackmail her over the twins?

I was thinking all those same thoughts as I watched, R126 . As Jill says in the following episode, Abby goes from baby stealer to Florence Nightingale in one evening.

And let me add, watching the series in such close order, McCashin's Laura is the fucking queen of snark.

In one of the episodes last night, Greg's mother scolds Laura with "a lady doesn't quip"

Laura Avery would have been queen of DL. Her snark surpasses that of our sainted Vivian Vance!

Laura Avery forever!

Laura’s last story was so good, but I wish they’d have kept the character around.

Is Pheonix Rising the episode where Abby smirks "I don't do strings!"

R127- yep, that’s the one! It is such a delicious and campy tour de force. It should be played at gay bars. Her fight with Gary when she threatens to drag his “precious Valene, her precious Ben and those precious little babies into the court!” - I levitate.

Holy shit balls. Just saw this on X: For the first time ever…Knots Landing Season 1 is now available for Digital Purchase from the Amazon Prime Store in the U.S. Full Season costs $17.99 or individual episodes for $1.99. This is Standard Definition 480p.

I just purchased it on the spot. This is huge. It’s happening guys!

I wouldn't get too excited, R135. Seasons 1 & 2 were officially released on DVD over a decade ago, so this is not the first time they've been made commercially available.

Doug Sheehan - Ben is back in town and his Miami Vice look is cringy .

[quote] And his exit from the show wasn't his plan.

For what it's worth, Donna Mills said that Baldwin was fired because "he got fat." LOL

Olivia’s on coke and Abby is about to start pulling her door off the hinges.

Oh - I hope that I didn’t miss it - I just turned it on and it is Michelle Phillips first episode - I always loved the Olivia on drugs episisodes!

I couldn't stand Olivia. Could have been bad acting. But I find nothing entertaining in teenagers acting up. When a character is difficult it's usually for a reason, and that reason usually makes the character's behavior relatable. But unfortunately teenagers' hormones make their behavior more erratic and unrelatable - at least to me. I usually just don't "get" them.

Did Olivia have any redeeming qualities besides making Abby entertaining?

I thought Tonya Crowe was wonderful in the role. And when Olivia started having problems, you understood why. Abby was hardly good mother material. Not saying she didn't love her children, but I would imagine growing up and having a front row seat to your mother's shenanigans would be difficult for anyone.

Olivia was necessary when Abby on the show, to humanize her.

Coming up is the scene that marks the beginning of Jill’s psychotic jealousy of Val. Abby comes to the ranch and tells Jill—“Let the second Mrs. Ewing give the soon to be third Mrs. Ewing some advice. The first Mrs. Ewing doesn't go away - ever!"

I think the show never should have gotten rid of Lotus Point-all of the characters were involved in it. After Lotus Point went away, the show split into two groups- the Sumner Group characters, and everyone else.

The shitty music score (including the opening theme) of season 8 is really undermining the intended gravity of the story. It's very whimsical and cutesy and mustache-twirly.

Crazy Ben just put Lilimae in a headlock. The only sane people living in Val’s house were the babies.

I love when they would use The Mamas and the Papas to score the Mack/Anne scenes.

Anne is now cunting all over Karen and her suburban values.

Michelle Phillips appeared on CBS Thus Morning when Knots was on the air, and she breezily told a disgusted Kathleen Sullivan how she smoked pot all the time.

^ I always liked Michelle Phillips' DGAF attitude.

And now, Peter is going to be impaled on a spindle

We have about one more season before this all morphs into The Greg and Paige Show. Man do they become overexposed.

You guys are bringing back so many memories for me. But I can't watch it again...life is too short. But then there's Gary's hot body...

R150- you are missing out. This episode is better than a Joan Crawford movie when Abby buries the body. Abby thinks Olivia did it. Olivia thinks Abby did it. But nope. It was Paige. Fucking brilliant.

I was just checking in to see if we are watching Abby drag Hollister across the floor in wearing white stilettos. Ahhhh … what kind of person am I watching this instead of the Democratic convention? ….. Do we know if they will run the show through again from the beginning? I am planning my sloth a few weeks in advance. ….. Do we think 5 or 6 am for Jill feeding Abby the pills?

R152- Jill feeds Valene the pills. As if she would even attempt pulling that shit with Abby.

I was watching Abby while I was writing that - yes - I can’t see anyone trying to feed pills to Abby. Or Lilimae - she wouldn’t shut up long enough!!

Laura and her cancer - lump in throat …… That has to be the absolute worst hairstyle on Joan Van Ark - she looks like a q-tip.

^ Or a backup singer for a Flock of Seagulls cover band.

[quote] Olivia was necessary when Abby on the show, to humanize her.

I would take Olivia and Tonya Crowe any day of the week over that talentless black hole Stacy Galina who was foisted upon us for YEARS. They should never have written off Olivia -- so much history and connections, and it would have been fun to see the great moralizer slowly morph into Abby Jr. No one could fill Abby's stilettos -- not Paige, not Anne, not Claudia. But Olivia was at least the heir apparent.

[quote] Olivia’s on coke

Too bad she didn't give some to Joshua... might have kept Alec's weight off and he would've been around longer.

[quote] That has to be the absolute worst hairstyle on Joan Van Ark

The second worst would have to be unfortunate cornrows in one of the early seasons. Joan was not Bo Derek, and it seemed extremely out of character for still-the-country-bumpkin Valene.

This season - yeriible hair no Ben no Lilimae - I think that Joan Van Ark was having a personal crisis. She was always thin as a whippet but she is skeletal and Popeyed that season - you wonder if she was running 20 miles a day and eating only egg whites and mustard.

Terrible ^ not yerrible

R160 I know Joan was a runner, well at least, a jogger. It was around this time (mid-80s) when my boyfriend and I would go running around the Lake Hollywood Reservoir and would see Joan jogging-walking around the lake frequently. As I recall, she lived up in the newer development just east of the lake that had it's own trail down to the road around the lake.

R162 That is a neat story. I looked up an interview that is about six months old - it was pretty funny. She talked about texting with Alec Baldwin during the Rust trial . She said that she hated getting old. She was into eating lettuce, egg whites and mustard. She says that she runs at night to keep out of the sun - Val, Val Val - she was always a nervous one …

[quote] She said that she hated getting old. She was into eating lettuce, egg whites and mustard.

Poor Val

I had forgotten how beautiful Lynne Moody was in those years. …. Back during the original run I thought Ted Shackleford was kind of meh. I thought that William Devane was yuk. Now on this rewatch while I am older than they were then - I find them both VERY attractive. …. I know that this is totally un PC but I chuckled out loud when Sumner told his first wife Millie Perkins to shut up……. You know, after the fuss that Mack and Karen made over adopting Meg - with the scandal of the Drug Dealers at Lotus Point - who is watching her now?

This is the scene where Abby pushes Jill over the edge. Once again, Abby fucks with Val without even knowing it.

Oh shit Jill is in a wig and she’s going to kill Val!

That Jill story was the best story line of any night time soap. It much mirrored what I consider to be the best daytime story line and that was the murder of Diana Taylor. Unfortunately Diana didn't wake up in a hospital.

Why did Lynne Moody leave the show? Was she unhappy? Salary dispute? Or was she let go because the new couple wasn't meshing with the rest of the group, so she was let go?

If it hasn't been said yet: Poor Val. Poor, poor Val.

Too bad they never knew what to do with Doug Sheehan. He was one of my all time favorites. He could have been so much more. Wish they had against typed him and made him a villain.

Lilimae Patrick Clements was everything. When she was gone it left a void that was never filled.

Jill's plan is so ingenious, you almost root for her. I wish they had kept her on in the role of "Sally's Friend."

Not sorry to lose Red Buttons, but Julie Harris leaves a gap as mentioned above. Aunt Virginia was okay. I wouldn't have written her as a New Age nutcase, though.

Hi Abs!

R170, I believe Lynne Moody asked to be written off when the show stopped doing anything with her character in Season 11. Pat and Gary Ewing were supposed to have an affair in Season 10, but for some reason that storyline never moved forward. They really wasted Moody and the Pat Williams character. I wanted to see her succeed and become a doctor again.

Franks biggest moment was when he went to check on Val when Jill was there. I remember us all screaming RUN OUT VAL, RUN OUT! When she didn't it was you dumb ass.

LOL Lilimae runs over Chip

Could Abby’s white skirt be a little snugger across the bottom? Kidnapping? Drug Smuggling? Abby knows how to rock every occassion!

All... Abby's... fault.

R177 - Agree with your post. My recollection is that Moody felt thwarted, frustrated and underused. I guess she wasn't interested in being black Laura at a bargain price. I would have preferred if they'd killed off Frank instead. I never liked the actor or the character.

The seasons just shown on Plex have my least favorite opening. Dreary, faux-jazz theme with a bargain basement Leroy Neiman knockoff background with creepy heads popping up randomly. Ugh. Favorite has to the be the floating boxes (first time, not the second), then the faces in the cul-de-sac cut out and third the sandcastles (although it still had that shitty diluted music).

I sure how they run this from the beginning again. I know that say they will but really doing it is another thing. When I fell asleep Paige and Greg started sleeping together and no one but Frank believed Val. This morning Abby and Greg are married and Mack, Karen Frank and Gary are trying to get evidence against Jill. I missed HOURS of leisurely cheesy goodness! I want to catch what I missed the next time around.

Things moved faster in the later seasons. Val's pregnancy was like 48 hours of the show

I absolutely hate to break the magic spell - but noticing the carefully arranged curls on Kevin Dobson’s forehead - is Mack wearing a rug?

That's what Kevin Dobson looked like on Kojak ten years before KL.

Of course Kevin wore a rug.

Whoever's managing that X account is a pip.

Hundreds of hours of great TV this past week, without any of the actors I hated on Knots (Galina, Noone, Peyser, Behrens) having shown up yet.

Claudia had the potential to be a great character and replacement for Abby. She was Greg’s sister; Mack and Anne knew her; she developed a friendship with Karen by moving into Abby’s old home on the cul de sac; she had a complicated relationship with her daughter and a fun frenemy relationship with Anne.

They made her way too vicious, however, and she crossed lines Abby would never cross. As selfish as Abby was, she loved her kids, Sid’s kids, and even Gary at times, and they were her weak spot.

R183 YES! It’s too 90’s in the most cheesy way. Like those awful “jazz” cups that were everywhere.

I congratulate whoever came up with the Val/Jill story line. Fine writing and even better action. Both actresses were brilliant in all there give and take. They had that rare no romantic chemistry.

I love that little old lady that Val woke up to as a roommate. The shit she was saying to Jill.

Teri Austin was brilliant. But when she got killed off Knots, she pretty much disappeared. Anybody know why?

She quit acting and now runs an animal rescue in Los Angeles r194

On the first season of Seinfeld George is in real estate Teri Austin played the beautiful co worker Ava - the one George “yearns@ for. …. You guys will totally get this - considering there were two or three of them - Teri Austin (in the right decade) would have been cast as Bobbie Jo on Petticoat Junction!

Was the bad saxophone music season the one where JVA and ML had those awful mullets? Donna Mills had the good taste to not go the mullet route. 😁

Mills and Austin became great friends on the set and remained so.

Val's kitchen and her home decor in season 10 are hideous.

Teri Austin had a fun little cameo in Brian De Palma's "Raising Cain."

This was a disappointing end to Abby. The Murakame storyline was both convoluted and dull. It also bugged me that viewers were robbed of a final scene with Gary. And don’t get me started on her singing Don’t Worry Be Happy. What a disservice to arguably the best character of the entire series.

Amen R199

I watched Knots religiously start to finish when it aired. I even stayed faithfull when LA LAW hit the scene. But you know on this rewatch - how in the heck did Peter Reckell stay on the show that long and I have such a fuzzy memory of him. I had no idea that he lasted that long!

Paula Vertosick = sad last days of Knots Landing. Wow. She is even worse than I remembered. She somehow ends up going from bowl haircut and a brownie uniform to seducing Sumner. The show should have ended when Abby left.

R204- I don’t disagree. Danny terrorizing Gary and Val felt like an uninspired retread of Jill which had just ended and was far more compelling . No one could adequately replace Abby and losing an enduring and complex villain left a big gap. The show just ran out of steam and it all started to feel a bit perfunctory.

Linda Fairgate becoming a villain was one of the few fun parts of the post Abby years. Then they had to kill her off in a shocking way which was really lame.

[quote] Claudia had the potential to be a great character and replacement for Abby.

On paper, yes. But Kathleen Noone was far too frau-ish to be an Abby. She would have been better as Laura's long-lost sister than a sex bomb Machiavellian corporate shark. She actually skeeved me out in all the wrong ways.

I did think Michelle Phillips had the chops for it (right mix of beauty, wit, and chicanery) but for whatever reason they watered her down into being desperate and foolish running lame-brain, small-stake schemes.

Paige was Abby lite but again they took the wrong route if making her more like Val -- perpetual lovelorn victim forever being stalked by psychos. Having her be paralyzed for about 20 minutes was probably the low point.

As much as I loved the show during the initial run, there is no denying that it ran out of steam -- starting even before Abby left. So many terrible stories and forgettable actors playing annoying characters, and worse yet it devolved into a corporate drama rather than about suburban neighbors facing topical issues with relatable pathos and humor. By the end, I was so sick of the Sumner Group retreads, an endless parade of serial killers, and women well into their 50s raising toddlers that I felt bittersweet relief when they finally put the old girl down.

I know most viewers considered it a cheap ratings ploy but I loved the much touted Knots/Star Wars crossover.

To learn Abby was in cahoots with Emporer Palpatine was quite the shocker!

Knots was better than Dallas and Dynasty, yet it never got the same attention. Knots grounded itself, which is probably why it outlived those other two. I think the show's final seasons were a combination of budget issues and losing some key players in front of and behind the camera, but I, for one, still found the show highly watchable until the end.

Later seasons were unwatchable.

That 70 yr old looking guy fucking the 2p yr old blond was gross.

Some decrepit writer or producers fantasy.

[quote]There are also issues with videotape. The main issue is that being recorded on videotape, it's almost impossible to separate the voice track from the music track. It was all done together. During the 80s, most soaps incorporated popular music without paying licensing fees because they just didn't know any better

This might have been an issue until very recently but it's become much easier with AI. I already have music-playing software that can separate music from the vocals on digital tracks with pretty acceptable results.

I'm still enjoying it since I know the episode where POS Danny Waleska surprisingly (shockingly?) meets his maker is coming.

I know - Knots at its worst is 100% better than so much else that is out there! I remember Tommy being a better looking guy.

Greg is about to be visited in the next few episodes by Mary Frances (Stacy Galina), and the ghost of Paul Galveston.

Originally they wanted Greg to be visited by the ghost of Laura, but Constance McCashin turned them down.

The writers were flailing around, trying to create replacements for Laura , Abby and Lilimae with Pat, Paula, Paige, Ginny , Anne, Linda and Claudia; but of those characters, only Linda worked, because her storyline was like something from the early seasons-a manipulator gets under Karen’s skin and causes strife in her family.

[quote] Pat, Paula, Paige, Ginny , Anne, Linda and Claudia; but of those characters, only Linda worked

I'm not sure I want to agree with that. Paige was a pretty unique and three dimensional character. Writing for her was not always top notch, but usually she was bringing a lot to the table to make the drama work. And Nicolette Sheridan never had a better character to play than Paige, imo. Anne and Claudia were quite unique soap villains, too. They never had the presence of Abby; their drama just never seemed to reach the scale of Abby's. When Abby did something everybody got impacted. Anne's and Claudia's misdeeds just didn't have that major impact on others. But both were very entertaining to watch.

Abby was a different kind of villain than Anne or Claudia. Rewatch this scene between Abby and Paige, and it explains a great deal about who Abby is.

R217 Yhat is a great scene. Donna Mills was lightning a bottle in that roll. She was so beautiful but was to let that go - it sounds hokey - the was she played Abby was like a great singer or ice skater - she was able to make it seem effortless and then pull a great tick out of thin air. Larry Hagman had the same exciting handle on JR. ….. it is been driving me crazy that last few days trying to figure out who Lynne Moody’s speech and mannerisms reminded me of - Kerry Washington!

I loved the was Val played cat and mouse with Paige. A credit to Mills, she could play off any actor in the series and she was always able to get her scene partners to take it up a notch. You couldn't come to a scene half assed with Donna Mills.

Didn't Abby fuck JR?

R217 It helped that Donna Mills had a really great speaking voice, quite low-pitched, smooth with some fragility and a little bit of gravelliness that could come off either sweet, spooky, or sexy depending on how she used it. If she wasn't so beautiful she would have been likely considered a finer-grade actress with all the techniques she developed that were unique to herself.

and what made Abby extry great is every now and then she would be the softest of them all. I loved when Karen kissed her forehead after Abby gave up a kidney. I still tear up at that one.

Poor Val

Claudia finally appeared last night and Greg repeatedly referred to her as his older sister. Devane is actually 6 years older than Noone... what a kick in the cunt bone!

[quote] That 70 yr old looking guy fucking the 2p yr old blond was gross.

I thought Devane was one of the more consistently entertaining actors on the show with an underrated talent to play both drama and comedy without going broad. And he was an attractive me. However, there was always something about Sumner (especially in the later seasons) that made me think he was about 3 days late on a shower.

For my money, the grossest pairings (age-difference or otherwise) had to be Claudia and Alex Barth (what a waste of super sexy (Boyd Kestner) and hound-dog faced Gary with the cellophane Kate.

[quote] he was an attractive me

Pics please.

We're up to the story of Mac's unseemly obsession with a teenaged blond boy...

That was an odd storyline - how weird that I remember Mack dressed like a Santa with Jason outside from the original run. ….. You know when Abby left - a lot of the “normal” left. Val’s books must have made her a fortune because she just drifts in clothes , cars and house remodels. Abby looked like someone who had her clothes dry cleaned , ate breakfast and actually had a schedule. Once Claudia and Anne came it was a lot of coiffed groomed women scheming. ….This Valene storyline being a Carl Burnett character is painful.

Joan Van Ark hated the “Val has a brain injury” storyline.

Mack was the weakest link. I couldn't stand him or the actor. Had zero chemistry with anyone.

They ran out of ideas for all the legacy characters, which often happens in long-running soaps. They threw a lot at Val in the later years trying to find something interesting: abused wife, illiteracy advocate, investigative journalist, and brain injury survivor. They finally killed Val off when (reportedly) Van Ark tired of the show, only to of course resurrect her about a year later. Oh well, at least they didn't give Val a money-grubbing, evil twin cousin named Rita...

Plus near the end Van Ark stopped eating. She wasn't dewy fresh anymore. I love joking about Michele Lee but she was so dependable in what ever scene or story they fucking threw her in. Her visits to Sid's grave, her Abby kiss, and of course the rose colored glasses speech were top notch Knots.

Anyone remember Karen's miniskirt? I remember everyone I was watching it with just jumping up and being in hysterics.

They had the perfect storyline for Val under their noses. Val, the overly protective mother of the twins, fought JR during the early seasons of Dallas to see her daughter Lucy, telling Bobby more than once that she wanted nothing more than for Lucy to live with Gary and herself as a family.

In spite of this, Lucy came to Knots Landing only once, and Val only visited her daughter one more time (for her wedding). Val and Lucy both mentioned having a strained relationship in later years. The only time Gary saw her was when he had to come back to Dallas to deal with Jock’s will.

I get that Charlene Tilton wasn’t a great actress, and didn’t fit in with Knots Landing. So recast the role-Dynasty recast each of the Carrington children. I can’t anyone saying that Charlene was such a great actress that she was irreplaceable.

I get that the KL producers didn’t want to encourage ties to Dallas, but considering that Val’s desire to be a good mother to her kids, it seems odd in retrospect.

Lucy could have come back and caused all sorts of drama-imagine if she had seduced Ben, and not Cathy, for example.

[quote] top notch Knots

Say that out loud three times!

Can you imagine Charlene Tilton trying to hold her own with the legitimately great actors on Knots? She’d be eaten alive by Julie Harris alone. Charlene’s line readings were always very odd, very halting. I agree Lucy would’ve generated story, but man that would’ve been painful to watch.

Charlene might have risen to the material though. All they gave her on Dallas was miss piggy with a gay husband sex kitten. Who fucked her uncle. Dough Sheehan should have been Greg's younger, evil brother. They had a resemblance. Would have been better than Joe Kelly redux.

I found it extremely sad when Gary lost his ranch. I get it that budget constraints didn't allow much location shooting anymore. But man, that ranch was Gary's dream, and it was part of him. Moving back from the ranch to the gul-de-sac would have killed me. I'm surprised that it wasn't a reason for Gary to drink again.

Lucy was only good for sniping at JR. She wouldn't have worked on Knots, unless she could've gotten under Abby's skin somehow.

I would have recast Lucy with a competent actress . The character had potential, not Charlene Tilton.

Kristin Bell - I know the years aren’t right - but could have been a Lucy from the thin tense Knots Ewing Clan of Joan Van Ark, Julie Harris & Ted Shackleford. She had that creepy creepy young girl part on “Deadwood” - she seemed almost feral.

Gary and Val were apart for years after JR took Lucy. Yet, during that time, hot, drunk, vulnerable Gary Ewing never married a gold digger, or fathered a bastard, who might show up to cause a rift between he and Val (or Abby)? Missed opportunity.

I think Val was so overprotective of Betsy and Bobby because of how things turned out with Lucy.

Marcy Walker from All My Children/Santa Barbara would have been an interesting recast Lucy.

Here is Karen in the miniskirt.

In the later seasons, I loved Anne/Claudia's exchanges like these...

That mini skirt scene is pure gold — all three of the actors played it pitch perfect!

Frank Williams is giving his daughter Julie a talk about safe sex and HIV/AIDS. It’s odd, considering he died just a year after this aired.

R248, that watermelon diet was not safe for anyone.

I thought of that during the aids speech, also…… No more Ronnie Troupe ( I think I added too many E’s) aka Chip’s wife Polly from My Three Sons as Meg’s babysitter.

Meg was special needs, right?

R248 that actor looks so much like a guy I used to date. I’ve been drooling over him for days now. His Wikipedia says his widow insists that he didn’t use needles or fuck around with guys. Yeah. Me neither gurl.

Lorenzo Caccialanza is sexy. I bet Nick was one hot rentboy during his Italian youth.

There is a great scene in the next (shitty) season-Karen goes to Claudia’s house and knocks on the door, and Nick answers in a towel. Karen tries to pretend she’s not checking him out, and the towel drops.

I liked Ronnie Troupe on the show. She had some great scenes when various characters used her as a sounding board during Laura's funeral, when she had a polite, frozen smile and a get-me-the-fuck-out-of-here look in her eyes. Carlos, Peggy, Marsha the New York-voiced gal at the car dealership and Lotus Point, Bob and Mort the Sumner Group version of Beevis and Butthead..the casting department had a knack for bringing in good talent for the background characters.

Wow - I’m dosing in and out but still slogging through. Geez - where did Paige get that big head of hair all of a sudden. Jason is in the hospital after the paintball thing. Anne just got thrown out of her makeover. I don’t enjoy Gary with darker hair. …… So - do we think it will start over again approx tomorrow afternoon?

Michele Lee’s facial expressions are absurd in this car chase. She looks like a mime.

R527 Karen messed up those gangbangers good in that video!

R227 Was that Mac's little piece of rough trade in the back seat of R257's video?

Karen ran a stop sign and almost killed a bunch of people because her blouse got ruined. She really had some rage issues that were barely contained at this point in the show.

In retrospect, I think Ben ended up being the most tragic character. He left town (and a good marriage) to chase that evil CIA agent (or whatever she was, Jean Hackney) and to protect his family. Disappeared to South America and we never found out what became of him. I believe Val got him legally declared dead so she could divorce. His voice was used very effectively in the Jill "Poor Val" storyline.

It was very haunting.

Great soapy stuff aside, some of the things I've enjoyed, and found most interesting, in this rewatch are the cautionary realities of the business stories. The environmental and socio-economic impacts of Lotus Point, the intelligence implications of Empire Valley, the natural resource opportunities of Tidal Energy. I didn't pay much attention back then, but it's all very relevant all these years later.

Karen's mini skirt remained relevant too.

so dreamy

Looks like the channel is now rotating between the full series of KL and Falcon Crest

R264, it's too bad times weren't different. Michael Fairgate could've had a sizzling gay romance.

I'm not sure I could explain why, but for some reason I always thought Mark Soper was super hot. I was happy to see him join the cast but that Tidal Energy storyline was horribly mishandled and he was abruptly written off.

For me, there was also history in the Tidal Energy story -- the show spent a lot of time dealing with environmental issues, and it harkened back to an early story involving Sid's plans for green car engines and corn-based oil with Abby and Gary wrecking it to hell.

Tragically, they matched cutie Mark with that vapid non-entity Stacy Galina. They should have stuck her with Michael Fairgate to the McKenzies and Sumners linked.

R226 - Ha! I meant to type "man" instead of me. Aside from our both being brunet, Devane and I look nothing alike.

[quote] I think Val was so overprotective of Betsy and Bobby because of how things turned out with Lucy.

Agreed, and the writers could have mined that a bit better while scrambling to find stories for Val. Clearly there must have been some relived trauma for her raising babies (also later in life) when her first child was stolen away.

They show also exceled when they focused on the psychology of the characters, their relationships to one another, and plots emanated from their individual flaws and quirks. Bad soap writing relies on stunt stories (e.g. Karen being stalked on her TV show) that could be cut and pasted to any other show.

[quote] Michele Lee’s facial expressions are absurd in this car chase. She looks like a mime.

14 fucking years on TV and Lee never learned the difference between camera acting and stage. She was always playing to the balcony. Her quieter, more reserved moments on the show (rare as they were) probably were created by a more controlling director.

R265 - I think the channel would be better served as either On Demand or with a set schedule, like Soap Net did. Also, I don't think it's possible to DVR streaming channels so if you miss an episode at 3am, it's gone. People won't want to watch continuing stories in random chunks, so the whole endeavor seems doomed to me. But it was fun to see the old KL episodes again after so many years of being largely (or legally) unavailable.

I guess it had to do with all the behind-the-scenes turmoil of the later seasons (and frequent writing staff/showrunner changes, but they seemed to determined to torpedo stories with potential and then drag-out the nonsense. Val and her never-ending brain injury turned virus, Anne's comical but overused fast cash schemes, Mac's obsession with Jason (that sadly missed the opportunity for real introspection into Mac's long-ago established story about having his own abusive father), Gary's stultifying girlfriend Amanda, and the endless palace intrigue at Sumner Group.

Meanwhile they dropped the engaging Lance Guest as Greg's nephew/half-brother foil, Michael's prescient acumen with the nascent internet technology, Sumner's third world barbary with toxic chemicals (barely touched upon despite his actions leading directly to the death of oldest child), Olivia morphing from sanctimony to venality (turning into her mother, a fate worse than death to her), and more. It's as if they had the right ingredients but kept screwing up the stew.

Did they ever explain why Mary Frances and Kate were identical cousins? That was just bizarre.

I know! As closely as I tried to watch - I watched all day ona Saturday with Val and the babies - fell asleep and missed her running away and working at the diner. She was already home when I woke up. Another night after power watching the Jill pills story - I fell asleep when only Frank believed Val and woke up with Frank, Mack, Karen and Gary questioning the forger. I would have love to have dvr’d tose episodes over night. I didn’t know about the channel until Valene was pregnant - I missed the early wonderful episodes with Richard, Sid, Ciji - the Abby/ Gary affair - Lili Mae’s arrival, Chip and Diana - I have to take care some things so I can prepare for the next watch …… I never watched Falcon Crest - I worked on Friday nights - wasn’t that that when I was on. Didn’t Susan Sullivan’s ring get caught in the pool drain?

The original writers left to produce Homefront on ABC, and the show became increasingly more expensive, even though it was still a solid performer for the network. That explains the final seasons more than anything else.

I would guess that it would be too much to dream that Homefront could be shown on this channel. TVLAND tan it for about 8 minutes 20 years ago. I had bootleg DVDs years ago but I don’t know if they survived the last move. homeland would be another rabbit hole to fall through.

Didn't you always get the sense that the actor who played Michael Fairgate was hung? I thought Olivia's boyfriend Harold (Paul Carofotes) as hot.

I hope one of you bitches took the opportunity to process all episodes for widespread torrent distribution.

I agree with R277, Harold was SO hot. I also liked Nick.

Am I remembering correctly, the character of Nick was named for one of the show’s hairstylist? I think the real Nick is married to Lauren Koslow? Or was all that part of a Knots fever dream?

I hate Gary losing his ranch.

we loved her but we used to count the number of times Karen would blink during an episode. I think six was the highest she ever got. I think Michelle Lee is a vastly underrated actress though. She put the "ing" in Landing.

Watching this at this point in time - few thoughts - yes Michelle Phillips was underrated. I love Joan Van Ark but lord on a Marathon watch - Dial it down. She got SO THIN - that usually doesn’t bother me - but it seems like once Julie Harris left Val was ON ring a ding ding ding every scene she was in. Eyes bulging, smiling too hard - I can’t explain it. It’s like - Joan - don’t use it all up at one - relax….. This is total bitchery but where as Val got skeletal I noticed Michele Lee was a pretty good sized girl in some seasons…… I used to dismiss Nicolette Sheridan back in the original years - she was so beautiful and expensive looking it looked like she had the world by the tail. I think her career didn’t live up to what it could have. That whole Desperate Housewives Marc Cherry thing was crummy and then blah. And we’ll - Donna Mills is IT.

Did Devon ever com visit?

I would have gone on the trip with him just to give him hourly blowjobs.

i think it was 1991. I was hired to work 2 days for the Soap Opera Digest Awards. The day before was dress rehearsal and all the presenters were coming in to go over the stage directions, etc. Dick Clark was the Producer and overseeing everything. Ted Shackleford and Michelle Phillips came in together, sat at a roundtable just hanging out, waiting for their turn rehearsing on the stage. Ted got up to step out for a bit; Dick Clark sat down in his seat. I overheard the conversation. It was "Mama" Michelle and "American Bandstand" Dick reminiscing old times; Dick asked Michelle about her kids. Michelle went on and on about how proud she was of Chynna (it was at the height of Wilson Phillips popularity).

I just thought it was pretty cool!

R285 That is a great story! I forgot - “Hold On For One More Day would have been a hot then!

Hit - damn I need to wear my glasses!

[quote]Dick Clark was the Producer and overseeing everything

Was he DRUNK OFF HIS ASS?

Felicity Waterman is an untalented trail of cat sick. She makes Lisa Hartman seem like Meryl Streep.

Whatever happened to Michael’s hyperactivity/ADHD?

They never used Michael the way they should have. They should have put in an underage affair with Doug Sheehan.

I assume we're supposed to believe it was a lie, but I never understood how Joe Robeson went from being Mary's hot son to her schlemiel brother between seasons. In reality, the writers probably changed their minds, but I have no idea why.

Also, I just watched an episode where Joe Robeson gives the order to get Val out of Tallahassee. So the Robesons were in on Val's kidnapping? Why and how? I thought Val's demise was tied to the final Big Bad (Treadwell). Hard to believe Joe would be in charge of anything more complicated than taking a lunch order at work. And for whatever reason, Mary then turned out to be Laura's aunt instead of her birth mother (although she was still adopted).

Here we go, the series finale is about to begin!

Valene's disguise, consisting of dyed frizzy brown hair and librarian glasses, make her the spitting image of Ginny in billing.

Aunt Ginny in billing?

My channel went out!

It's a shame, Joan had already started fucking with her face before this return.

Sisters starts next - grr - I would love to see the Knots Landings I missed at the beginning. Damn I have been glued to this more than a week - I feel a little lost now that it’s over …. I must say I watched “Tbe Affair” over and over - Dominic West’s Noah reminded me a bit of Ted Shackleford’s Gary.

Showtime's The Affair was wonderful! The first two seasons, especially, were hypnotic. It fell apart some in the middle, (Season 3 was awful!), but I thought it redeemed itself nicely in the final season.

I would love to watch the entire series again sometime.

Sisters? The Sela Ward programme? Angsty.

I would've probably watched Knots (intermittently) again. It's been a fun, nostalgic two weeks.

Rock paper, scissors is all I remember .

I want my Valene!!!!!

Just finished 5 months of binge-watching Knots. Loved every episode and loved revisiting the clothing, decor, and cars from the early eighties.

[R277] Michael is hung. There is a scene during when he was dating Paige where he comes down the stairs into Karen's Livingroom wearing sweatpants and it flops. Meanwhile, Gary wears the tightest pants since Bo and Luke Duke and NO bulge is ever seen.

I wish they used Dorian Lord/Robin Strasser more. She started out bitchy and fun, and then became nice, and then gone.

This, r303?

[quote] I want my Valene!!!!!

Sounds like motor oil...

Now that it's all over I feel ridiculously bereft. Mary!!!

I wish it had stayed on for a few more years. CBS wanted to renew it for 2 more seasons. I think the idea was to keep the Ewings and the Mackenzies and Abby bring in new neighbors at the cul-de-sac.

R305 is that you, Sid?

Devane and Sheridan both wanted to leave at the end of the 14th season.

Wasn’t CBS thinking about spinning the young characters-Michael/Paige/Johnny/Olivia/Harold-off onto their own show around 1988? That’s what that stupid Mexico story was about.

R306 i totally agree - I have been falling asleep to it and waking up with it. I was unloading the dishwasher earlier and the theme song kept going through my head. ….. I WISH they would run it again starting Labor Day Weekend!

Does anyone know why Don Murray left?

There is a really good interview with John Pleshette on Knots Landing .net - it is approx 20 years old - he had just filmed his Sopranos episode. He said that Don Murray was restless with the whole and wanted to move on AND he wanted more money. The combination of both things was very good for Kevin Dobson!

It was so fitting that Karen got the last shot of the series.

And Abby got the last line!

Abby breezes back into town.

I thought Robin was awful, but it was a poorly written one-dimensional character. When CBS lowered the budget in hopes of cancelling it's expensive series. I think they deliberately brought it bad writers to torpedo it. It somewhat resurrected its final season....

Also, I don't know why most of you hated Stacy Galina. She grew on my after awhile, and I loved the episode introducing her as Mary Francis when she shockingly got killed off at the end. Greg had become my favorite male character by that point, and it was kind of bold to venture into his inner psychological turmoil. I think it was Devane's best work on the series. He should have been Emmy nominated.

I have always thought that Chris Lemmon missed his father’s “magic” his Karen’s stalker didn’t any zing like the usual Knots good but really bad guys.

Oh dear, Oh dear and one more Oh dear.

It is supposed to start again Monday night Sept 2nd! Grab Chip & Ciji & Peggy and Caesar …….

[R304] Wow. That's it!

Poor Val.

It is available on demand on Plexi now.

R321- I just checked and only seasons 1-5 are on demand. Thats a good start but we need 6-10 to make me truly euphoric.

A young Valene in Bonanza. Jesus fuck was she gorgeous.

All seasons are officially up!

30 years later.

R323 - Poor Joan, always playing a damsel in perpetual distress.

Who's the hot daddy chasing poor Val?

Now that you have access to all of Ciji's music, which one of you is going to finally put together the greatest hits album?

I remember my older sisters LOVING Ciji. They thought she was the best singer ever. In their defense they were in high school.

I’m watching Lilimae mow down that asshole Chip again. It’s very satisfying!

I loved Ciji, too.

Yeah. I don't think anyone has attempted or achieved as much homicide as Lilimae and not serve time. I loved her. Everyone I know who watched when we were young loved her too. Her running Chip down was a highlight of the whole series.

I always though Lisa Hartman was going to have a breakout career after Knots. Then she got her hands on that Clint Black money and that was that. She didn't care anymore.

Its a great episode for people who hate assholes. In addition to Chip getting mowed down, Eric slaps that twat Diana across the face as Karen and Abby watch.

If the Hallmark channel was around in those days, Lisa Hartman could've had nonstop work for a decade or two.

Shit, I just looked up Clint Black's discography. That boy has sold a lot of records.

^ But does Clint have any Journey covers?

They should’ve also had Lisa as Cathy sing Heart’s “These Dreams”

R338, great idea. Makes me wish we had heard Cathy sing "(How Will I Get You) Alone" over the radio at some point during the Jill-is-obsessed-with-Gary storyline.

I could never tell if Val was saying Gary or Geary. That shit finally drove me crazy.

I missed the first season on the 24-7 marathon channel, so I'm just revisiting "The Lie," episode 4, the bizarre early installment when Laura meets a rapey artist at the Knots Landing singles bar.

Falcon Crest just started the first episode - if they run the whole show I don’t see how they can start the Knots marathon on Monday night - I know I can run episodes on Demand but I enjoy the marathons so I can clean and do laundry and Stuff with Knots in the background. ….. Maybe it’s just the pilot but the sets on Falcon Crest look so cheap!

I love the On Demand, and the quality looks pretty damn good (compared to bootleg or piracy) but God Damn, Plex loves commercials and for some weird reason they never line them up with the natural commercial breaks already built into the episode. Even more annoying is when you have to wait 2 minutes of dead air because there were no buyers for the airtime. WTF. I find Tubi's commercial breaks to be shorter and less frequent, but they too break in whenever they fucking feel like it, even in the middle of a sen--

Meant to add also that I wish (hope) Plex offers an ad-free option soon. I wouldn't mind paying $5 or $10 a month to watch their On Demand of old movies and old TV shows without breaks.

I wish they had enlarged Olivia's part beyond her drug use. Abby should have brought her into the business. She would have made a great foil for Paige. I really think the actress who played her really grew nicely into a young adult actress. By the end of the show she was pretty good.

Abby should have manipulated Gary into adopting Olivia and Brian after she knew Val’s babies were his-it would have given the two of them a stronger tie to Gary and Val. I also think the writers should have found a way ti involve Gary and Karen in the Sumner Group after Lotus Point went away.

Was Lilimae let go because of budget cuts or she just didn't want to do it any more. The show was much less without her. If anything they should have made her part bigger. We never got enough of Lilimae. Mowing Chip down cemented her as a Knots legend.

Lilimae was OG Gangsta.

Laura and Lilimae were let go for budgetary reasons

Glad they are up! I watched a couple of episodes from the first 2 seasons but the ones I watched were kind of boring. Watched the episode that’s really the first I remember being wowed by (I was 13 or so) …when Abby takes Val to get her babies, and that horrible actress yells at her husband in slow motion to keep driving with the other twin.

I don’t know if it was that episode or another episode in that season, but I was struck by how chic DL fave Constance McCashin looked for 1984. She had a sleek bob, a sleeveless black dress that looks like a dress from today, and then put on a white blazer. I always think about her being a frau on the series, but she looked hot in this episode.

[quote] I also think the writers should have found a way ti involve Gary and Karen in the Sumner Group after Lotus Point went away.

They did struggle to keep the show cohesive as time went on. Karen and Mac were tangentially tied to the Sumner Group through Michael and Paige, and then towards the end they were named co-CEO as steward's of Meg's interest. They also tried to link Gary to Sumner with the whole Empire Valley story and briefly when Gary ran against Greg's faux bro Peter in some campaign. Also, Gary was romantically involved with Kate who was Sumner's niece.

Gary Ewing featured heavily in my sexual awakening.

^ According to a friend of mine, who was an L.A. waiter in the early 80s, Ted was available for some side play.

Oh, reeeaaaalllyyy, r353. Intrigued.

Gosh, What are they talking about Geary?

I once said I enjoyed AC/DC. I meant the band, but hot young guys started ramming their asses onto my dick and well... in for a penny.

Are there enough wealthy DLers who can finance/crowdfund a new season of Knots Landing?

Some notes for a pitch:

Abby is homeless (Donna Mills says she would love to see Abby homeless and then fight her way back to the top). At least one of the grown-up Avery, Fairgate, Mackenzie, Sumner children and their family now live on the cul-de-sac. Mack is dead. Val has to get herself together when Gary shows signs of dementia. Karen is still meddling (and is convinced Mack was murdered). Paige is a now a lawyer like her late dad Mack, and has a hot gay son by disgraced former governor Greg. There's a new Lotus Point.

I want Karen in a rest home with dementia Pissing her pants and getting teased by the aides. Poor Val my ass.

R357- I don’t want to see Abby homeless. I don’t know why Donna Mills has such a hard on for that storyline. I guess there’s a reason writers exist. Hard no from me.

Come on people, Knots has been off the air for so long that Olivia and Brian's children are having children!

Michael Fairgate is 58. fifty-effing-eight.

Olivia Cunningham is 47.

If either of those characters had children, those characters would be in their 20s, early 30s.

But I do wonder, what ever happened to the children Laura had when married to Richard (you know, Meg's much older half-brothers)?

Kenny and Ginger's baby, Molly Ward, would be about 43 now.

Kate Whitaker would be in her mid 50s

Jason Avery would be around 53, while his brother Daniel would be about 43.

Meg be in her mid-late 30s

Diana Fairgate would be 61

Brian Cunningham would be in his mid 40s

Bobby and Betsy Ewing would now be 38-40 range

Feel old yet?

By the way, I think Olivia would be 55 today. She said she was 18 when married Harold in 1987.

58 and 47 are not what they were in the 80s, so with some clever writing and some recasting, Olivia, Brian, and Michael and their kids could be interacting in interesting ways with the core group of Karen, Val, and Abby.

Yes, R360, I'm curious about what happened to Daniel and Jason Avery--and Richard and his wife we never saw, who might look like Laura.

Karen, Val and Abby are all around 75-80. If Karen or Val slapped Abby now, they would shatter their wrist and likely kill her.

I think the reboot could have some good Grace and Frankie vibes. Maybe Mack and Gary were gay for each other all those years.

My middle aged children, my middle aged children

Is everyone now streaming the show on Plex as it’s finally on-demand?

I don't know if I want to watch it again. I think a YouTube clip now and then is sufficient. I loved Knots when it was. It ended when I was 17. As an out in the world adult I might view it differently and the affection I have for the show might be diminished. For instance, I loved Alice when I was a kid. Watched it as an adult and hate now.

Knots is better than Alice, which was pretty much trash. Bless Linda's heart that that thing ran for eight years. That was mostly in the days before everyone had a TV remote...

Knots sure what's happening, but Knots season 2 episode 5 "Kristen" is playing right now on Primetime Soaps (3:00pm eastern). I'm pretty sure that Falcon Crest was only on season 3 this morning.

How dare you insult Alice R369! You obviously don't know quality tv.

I love how the true fans always just called it "Knots".

[quote] I might view it differently and the affection I have for the show might be diminished.

I feel the same way. I watched these 80s soap as a teenage gayling and truly enjoyed them all. I have watched all seasons of Falcon Crest twice since then and find the last three seasons unwatchable. Seasons 2 to 5 are gold though.

How maddening that it is 25 anniversary week of The Sopranos with a marathons all week and documentaries this weekend - opposite The Knots Landing marathon!!

We're about to say goodbye to Sid. Truly a shock to my 12yo gayling heart in 1981.

Let's be honest: What would Sid have done in Lotus Point? The man had to go.

No one can know the road not taken, but certainly losing Sid let the show grow like a weed. Through Mac they brought in Paige and Greg, two megawatt characters. And Mac's profession lent itself to way more possibilities than owning a car dealership/garage. Plus, if we're going to be honest, Sid was just boring AF. Even in his best stories (the rape, the mob) he always felt like a supporting player. Don Murray was probably one if not THE best actor from the original cast, and his name carried some cachet early on, but by season 2 it was time to move on. Murray did himself a huge disservice (which he readily admitted) by quitting, but it really saved the show.

The show made a lot of big errors in casting throughout its entire run, but the ones they got right, they really got right

Curious, R378, who do you think was miscast and who was well cast?

I don't think it was casting errors. It was more writing areas with a few characters that could have been a lot more, underused I guess. The show was so good though it didn't really matter. I guess my only casting complaint would be bringing on too many new people when they didn't need anyone else. I think 98 percent of the time their casting was right on point. Brilliant even. Not everyone would say "Get me Donna Mills!". Yet her casting was one of the best in TV history.

Yes, there were more than a few characters who could have been much more underused a lot sooner in their runs on the show

R380 - OK. There were a few roles which I think could have been better cast:

Kim Lankford as Ginger - I suppose she was cast primarily for her looks and natural SoCal aura, but she wasn't much of an actress and didn't have a lot of charisma that jumped off the screen. Plus she was probably TOO pretty to play the long-suffering, cheated-on wife of Kenny. Ginger often felt like a younger version of Laura, and one was enough in the early years.

Stacy Galina as Mary Frances/Kate - The whole identical cousin was played straight, God help the writers. And for what? Galina was often the weakest link in any story. She lacked charisma and sexiness, and just came across like a 12 year old in roomful of adults. Was that supposed to be the role? Her naiveté made Val look worldly. Bad, unnecessary character played by a forgettable actor.

Penny Peyser as Amanda - Maybe it's personal, but I just found her incredibly annoying. She also had a goofy, frightened look on her face like she just was kittens being tortured on youtube. Another one with zero magnetism and middling acting skills. Gary's mystery caller could have been SO many things, and yet they ended up with this pointless and soon abandoned character. A mistake all the way around.

Kathleen Noone as Claudia - The actress, while attractive, was no Hollywood beauty and frankly seemed, well, full-figured. It seemed odd that so many men were lusting after her (Galveston off camera, Alex, Nick, some CEO for a few episodes). She was a decent actress but she just exuded housewife from every pore so it was difficult to buy her as a college professor-turned-corporate CEO. I don't know if they meant for Claudia to be the new Abby, but she rated about a 2 on the Abby scale.

Honorable mentions would go to Larry Riley as Frank, Peter Reckell as Johnny (terrible actor), Felicity Waterman as Vanessa, and Chris Lemmon as Jeff,.

There were, on the other hand, many good choices in casting included the above-mentioned Donna Mills (who knew?).

I thought that Kathleen Noone was fantastic in this role. She just exuded fun being manipulative. Her character was written surprisingly three-dimensional with a lot to hate and a lot to relate to. I thought Noone and Claudia were a bright highlight in the late KL years.

How is the audio/video quality of the show on Plex? Is it low-res (264p), straight from the original? Or was it upscaled somehow to 480p or even 720p? Not assuming they were able to scale it up to 1080p.

I always disliked Noone as Claudia, for the reasons R382 mentions, as well as her obvious "acting" which seemed like a cliché of someone from the legitimate theater slumming it on television.

Claudia had potential, but having her inadvertently get her son killed ruined it for me.

Greg having a younger brother who romanced Paige would have been more interesting than Kate.

Or-instead of Claudia, bringing a recast Jane Sumner could have been interesting. Jane made a play for Mack at one point, too.

Killing off Steve Brewer so quickly was just dumb. Lance Guest brought the right mixture of moral indignation and impish charm and, for me, was one of the more interesting characters brought on towards the end. He even made Kate (Galina) bearable, which is no small feat. I don't know why that choice was made or by whom, but it hurt the show IMO.

Claudia trying to send her son back to prison (and inadvertently getting him killed) was the final nail for me with her. I wish the cop had shot Kate instead. Multiple times.

R382 Good analysis. Agree w all except Claudia. I'm partial to her because of All My Children. I think writers came up with the singer storyline for Ginger, realized she couldn't sing and brought in Lisa.

R377 Sid was even the background character in the super fuel storyline!

Also, Halle Berry (Debbie) was a wasted character with Frank. She should have been with Gary. Gary was the himbo of the show.

Gary was a whore. A cheap, drunken whore! He fucked everyone except me!

Sid deserved to die just because of his clothes.

Ok I have been watching The Sopranos all week. I know that Knots is On Demand . What happened to the con tips marathon watch? I know it started again on Mon Sept 2 - but yesterday Sisters was running and this morning Falcon Crest is on - are the just streaming samples now?

I always wondered if the Fairgates were originally meant to be Jewish. They all had common Jewish first names: Sid, Karen, Diana, Eric, and Michael, and obviously Lee and Lonow were Jewish in real life. I wonder if 1978 CBS had cold feet about having their lead characters not be Christians. Lord knows it took them a decade to have a black family live on the cul-de-sac, and we never did get any gays. Even today you don't see a lot of Jewish leads in soaps (primetime or daytime).

Michael is a common Jewish name?

R392 Wow! - that is so interesting! You are right! Now I will keep noticing it!

R393 - About as common as David. Not especially Jewish (like Sidney) but common.

Very interesting, R392. I chuckled during one episode when Paige told Michael that Karen was a yenta.

That's what it looks like R391 which is a shitty way to keep eyeballs on the channel. I was bummed the other day expecting to tune back into Knots, only to have Sisters (which I don't consider a soap) airing instead.

R397 - Sisters was soap adjacent, like the far better-written Picket Fences and St. Elsewhere were. Sisters, like those, was a continuing drama, but much soapier in its penchant for melodramatic storytelling and overacting.

I think you appreciate UNDER-acting, Mrs. Chadwick at R398!

I wouldn't schedule any of the three mentioned on a network named Primetime Soaps.

R400 - Well, let's be honest. Plex will air what's available and in their budget...

BTW, R400, on record Lee, Mills, and Van Ark have all claimed that Knots Landing was not a soap opera but a drama.

Personally, I think calling the channel "primetime soaps" is unnecessarily limiting and could put off potential viewers. I would have just called it Classic Primetime Dramas or something to that effect.

OT, I've been watching Falcon Crest and these early seasons were really great drama. The season 5 cast is stacked. Besides the regulars, there's Cesar Romero, Anne Archer, Simon MacCorkindale, Morgan Fairchild, Apollonia and peak Ken Olin. I forgot what a boss bitch Ana Alicia's Melissa was.

The first season and 1/2 Dynasty was a completely different show.

R404, while I loved Alexis and stuck with the show until the end, I really believe that the initial tone and stories were better.

Yeah Dynasty was a better everything, quality wise, the first two seasons. However, it became much more fun.

[quote]on record Lee, Mills, and Van Ark have all claimed that Knots Landing was not a soap opera but a drama.

I'd agree with this. However, its soapiest years (seasons 6 to 9) were its best.

[quote] Yeah Dynasty was a better everything, quality wise, the first two seasons.

Losing OG Steven was a bad blow to the show, then they lost OG Fallon while simultaneously bringing on far less talented/interesting actors as ridiculous substitute children and dollar-store recasts. Alexis' scene-chewing antics and OTT stories were just eyeroll material, but God -- the real killer of the show was whoever did their casting.

In defense of Emma Samms: She was more than capable, but was given really shitty material to work with on The Colbys and Dynasty. Case in point: In Dynasty's last season she was actually very good when original Fallon peaked out of the scripts again.

The last season of Dynasty was awesome--a final course correction, alas too late...I have to admit that I liked The Colbys way more than most. It too seemed to be branching out as it came to an abrupt end.

What a time to live in, though--when TV could create these epically expensive shows with 20 or more episodes (!! )with superstar regulars and guest stars.

Hmmm.. so now we're back into season 1 eps of Falcon Crest.

And now we're on season 1 eps of Knots. No rhyme or reason to this channel. Oh well, still fun.

Ok - Val and Gary aka GEERY just moved into their new house on the Cul de Sac …. Richard is out looking for a light bulb ….

Kenny was a hottie.

The most bizarre episode of Knots Landing has to be the WTF one where for some lame reason all the women have to spend the night in some old house Laura is selling and Val communes with a child ghost. Was this supposed to be an ode to Henry James?

Were they toying with the idea of bringing Don Murray back (not as Sid) in season 7? I’m rewatching the end of this season and Sid’s name comes up in every episode. Karen, Abby, Eric, Olivia and Val all mention him. Usually when a dead character is referenced on a soap they’re either coming back from the dead or the actor is returning to the show.

And maybe also an homage to The Haunting, R415, featuring a pre-Lilimae Julie Harris.

R416, I feel like Sid's possible resurrection was spoofed around the 200th episode in the blooper clip done by the cast, when Greg knocks on the Mackenzies door, declares himself to be Sid with plastic surgery, and kisses Karen.

It was also floated as a storyline idea for the reunion movie in 1997.

I'm glad Sid and Laura stayed dead. Their deaths defined the show, and it would've been a cheat to see them back.

Jill Bennett, on the other hand, would've been interesting. Too bad her death couldn't have been more ambiguous. What a cliffhanger Season 10 would've been, if we discovered Gary's caller was really Jill.

Did Devon ever visit?

I've never seen the episode airing now, where all the women are taken hostage during a home invasion.

Diana escapes and calls the police. Laura slaps the shit out of "slut" Abby. Ginger is, seemingly, about to miscarry. Karen gets clocked in the face with the butt of a gun.

Good stuff!

Apparently Knots Landing was a very dangerous place to live in the first season... motorcycle gangs, home invasions, rapes in the afternoon.

Now Erics Fairgate and Stoltz are getting baked at a house party.

Don Murray has a very hairy chest. He is on the table hooked up to machines.

Lilimae was only supposed to be a three or four episode character. When she left after that there was such a reaction that they brought her back the next season.

^ She had a hugely loyal and vocal fan base of fellow harpsichord players.

So when Steve Shaw died in real life, did they just write off Eric and never mention him again? Did they not want Karen to have lost a husband a son?

Pat Peterson was really cute as Michael. I think he quit acting after Knots ended?

I can't remember off hand, but Eric was mentioned a few times in the later seasons during the Linda-Michael story. Shaw died in 1990, and Linda Fairgate was active on Knots from 1989-1992 so probably yes. That was her second go on the show; she originally appeared briefly in season 9 as Eric's granola-loving/tree-hugging new wife (87-88). Of all the Knots characters, Linda arguably had the most dramatic 180 in her character going from sanctimonious hippie to ruthless yuppie with little explanation.

Yes, Patrick Petersen retired from acting. I saw a video by him on youtube a few years back answering a couple of questions about the show. He seemed remarkably blase and indifferent about it, and now has his own business in California (health foods I think).

R366 - It would be funny if after all this time it turns out Bobby and Betsy weren't really Val's babies and they did die at childbirth. Ooops.

HAAAAAAARRRRREEEEEEEEE they want to take the BAAAAABBBBEEEEEEES

Good lord - Joanna Pettit as the detective on Ciji’s case - wow that was a thankless role. Not to mention she is wayyyyu too old to wear those Flashdance head scarves at work!

R429, she had that great voice though.

Did every lesbian in the 80s take hairdo inspiration from Lisa Hartman?

She looks so dykey. I am surprised she didn’t crush a can of Bud against her forehead and tell Richard Avery to suck her dick.

Well, Lilimae just mowed Chip down. I love that look on her face.

He had it coming. She should have backed up and taken that asshole Diana out too.

r429 - Petit's character had backstory with Mack when he was still a relatively blank slate on the show. I always assumed they were testing the waters for a triangle with Karen but it didn't materialize. They did take that route sorta later on with Anne and sheepishly with Paula.

I really like Joanna Pettit in a lot of things (The Group) - but maybe how her part was written - so much diva scenery chewing from Lee, Mills, Van Ark , Harris and Lonow in that story line - it’s almost like she just couldn’t pull the inner quirky diva out of herself and faded. maybe that was the reason for the last minute head bands. Millie Perkins didn’t bring the heat either. When Nicolette Sheridan and Michelle Phillips arrived - they were on fire from “go.” ……… I am behind on this scoop - I didn’t know that Kim Lankford dated Robert Durst for 18 months - this was during a time period he was doing fishy stuff.

Every time I saw Claudia on the screen I expected to see Myrtle Fargate to come running up with a dress for her to try on.

Kim Lankford’s BFF was Durst victim Susan Berman. She was interviewed several times about him.

437 - well - I feel another rabbit hole calling me ….

I like Plex. They do get a lot of stuff you don’t find anywhere else free.

We're kicking into the Wolfbridge Group now (on Freevee, mercifully). Diana's hiding Chip at the Ranch, Gary is obsessing over Ciji lookalike Kathy, Karen is starting to spiral on pain killers, Greg is trying to play Mac, Laura is suspicious of Abby, Val and Ben are just getting started. Knowing where it's all going really highlights how talented and clever the writers were.

Poor Ben.

So many of the plot points in season 5 continued to generate stories for years:

Lotus Point; Abby and Gary’s marriage; Val’s pregnancy and the paternity of her babies; the romances of Greg and Laura as well as Val and Ben. The paternity of Bobby and Betsy wasn’t fully settled until season 12.

And Mary Frances Sumner, in seasons 5 and 11,, was a pushy pain in the ass. No wonder Greg and Jane didn’t want her around.

Mary Francis Retton and Eric had a sweet little romance in season 5.

*Frances

Eric should have knocked up Mary Frances. Then they could have married. Buttinsky Karen and pushy Mary Frances would fight so much over parenting that Karen would have returned to pills.

I figured Mary Frances was meant to be a replacement of sorts for the departed Diana -- young ingenue lead. For whatever reason that didn't seem to work out and then they brought in Paige.

I wanted to kick Diana in her cunt bone.

Diana IS thoroughly unpleasant. ….., is Millie Perkins - Jane/ Summer / Mack’s college back story triangle erased once Anne - Michelle Phillips comes into the picture? Does the Anne/ Mack/ Summer Triangle erase the Jane/ Sumner/Mack backstory - or do they mention Jane in those flashbacks? I don’t remember!

Jane got barely more attention paid than did Sid's long-forgotten first wife, Susan, or Karen's orphaned step-daughter Annie.

The Diana character could have been interesting with just about any other actress under the sun playing her. It wasn't so much that the character was so unlikable the actress just had resting punch me in the face face.

Yet she was completely believable as Michele Lee's daughter.

It was cool to see Claudia Lonow/Diana in the last season as a fashion designer in NYC, and nice that they didn't recast the part. Good bookending on the writers' part, too.

Diana’s storylines really compelled Lee to dial up her hammy tendencies.

if she got any more hammy she would have been the whole pig. lover her though.

There is something bizarrely watchable and entertaining about Michele Lee, but she should definitely have Boar's Head stamped on her forehead.

I'm watching right now (Karen and Mac are on Dr. Ackerman's trail, Abby is imploding over the babies, Ruth is eating the sofas). Michelle Lee is so invested, you have to love her and root for her. The everywoman as superhero.

Rewatching this made me realize that, with a few exceptions (Baldwin, Devane and Pleshette), the male actors on this show were a lot less talented than the actresses. I’m glad they didn’t keep revisiting the “Gary is on a drunk bender” story the way Dallas did with Sue Ellen, because Ted Shackelford is cringe as a drunk.

Annnd - they found The BAYBEES!!!!

My 87 year old Dottie mom took a fall and has been in the hospital and then skilled living this week . I have bee binging Knots on my phone the whole time. This morning a pushy PT strongly said my mom should go straight into long term care because she hadn’t yet mastered some foot flexes. I felt down and panicky and tired - AND THEN the POWER of Ms KAREN FAIRGATE MCKENZIE came coursing through me and my shoulders went back and my chin went up and I told the guy to step off in so many words - I would see that my mom got the care she need. Thank you.

R457 Knots and Dallas were like Yin and Yang opposites. Dallas had the strong males with Jock and JR. Even Bobby was written as someone who wasn't afraid of a dirty dealing or two early in the series. Pam, Miss Ellie and early Sue Ellen were all fairly milquetoast and submissive compared to the firecats of Knots.

R440 funny after all of those years - as a kid being mesmerized by Sue Ellen’s long, long legs, her huge eyes with raccoon smudged eyeliner - staggering around with her chunky tumbler full of sloshing melting ice. ….. That and what a twisty WTF mouth Mary Crosby had. ….. We Return our Programing to Lotus Point ….

I liked Sue Ellen's early season's hairdo where she couldn't quite decide where the part should go, and also how her whole mouth would roll when she's say "Jaaaaay-ahhhhr". I watched for about the first five years before losing interest, but Sue Ellen was always my favorite character on the show.

There are time periods when the joy is gone. I loved Doug Sheehan as Joe Kelly on GH . He had fun chemistry with Richard Dean Anderson as Jeff W. But Ben is an odd character. When he is good he is good . But damn he was annoyed mad and mopey too much of the time. Moody. If you are THAT sensitive all of the time, don’t marry Tennessee Williams heroine Valene. And now I’m just mean - the arms of his shorts and jackets were weird….. I remember “Day by Day” with Linda Kelsey , but I don’t remember seeing him after that. He always reminded me of John Payne in “Miracle on 34th St” …… I know he died a few months ago. RIP.

Shirts - not shorts!

[quote] I loved Doug Sheehan as Joe Kelly on GH . He had fun chemistry with Richard Dean Anderson as Jeff W.

And to think I wasted all that time worrying about stupid Annie Logan!

Sheehan was given an awful storyline in his last year on KNOTS--shrill, ridiculous, and drawn-out espionage nonsense with Jean Hackney. Loved his scene of choking Lilimae, though. And I loved when Greg referred to Ben and "Tennessee Williams heroine" Val as Dagwood and Blondie.

Another random musing from the rewatch - it’s about Michele Lee. Did you notice th at in the first few seasons - the Don Murray years - she showed a lot of skin. She was really thin with the low full boobs. She didn’t shy way from halter tops, bathing suits, watering the lawn in shorts. Plus a few scenes where she would let her hair down and in a skimpy dress or negligee dab herself with perfume. Then suddenly she became Conservative Karen. I know that she divorced James Farentino during that time and married executive Fred What’s his name. the “Don Murray Karen” could have gone toe to toe with Anne. I never noticed it before. Watching several years in a row made me notice that Karen got a little frumpy.

^ It was the early 80s. She just said no.

Lee did NOT want to go toe to toe with Mills however. Plus someone had to be the yenta of the cul-de-sac. Val was too loopy and Laura was to fragile. Ginger was simply an idiot.

I am so watching the Charles Scott/Abby storyline and the timing doesn’t make sense.

It aired in the 1987-88 season, and supposedly happened 20 years prior to that. This means that Diana would have been 3 or 4 years old (she was 18-19 during the Chip storyline), and Eric would have been at most, a year old (since he was in college in 1987).

But Sid and Karen don’t have children and aren’t married, since Charles calls Karen “Karen Cooper” when he sees her again. This is like a sloppier version of the previous season’s storyline with Anne and Mack.

We do find out during this story that Abby’s first husband Jeff ran a successful business, which she helped him start, so that does help explain where she gets her money when she first arrives in Knots Landing.

Omg don’t post without editing:

1.) There shouldn’t be a “so” in the first paragraph.

2.) The first sentence in paragraph two should read: “ It aired in the 1987-88 season, and the Charles/Abby romance supposedly happened 20 years prior to that.”

The Charles/Abby story line was my first indicator back then that they ran out of ideas for Abby. I didn't care for the story. It felt very isolated when it could have been a major thing for Lotus Point. And the casting of Michael York felt like stunt casting.

It is a terrible story rR72. I am noticing there is big stretch of the 1987-88 season after Laura’s death that is very lifeless and dull. The drug running at Lotus Point story is dumb. And I can’t believe they thought they could spin the kids (Michael/Paige/Johnny) onto their own show using this as the basis.

R72 I have watched Knot's all the way thru at least twice (although it's been a few years) and I barely remember that storyline.

I’m confused ( ok ok) I saw Olivia trying to return Abby’s clothes for cash … I saw Abby snatching the cocaine away from Olivia BUT ehst happened to the episode where Abby and Olivia battle over the drugs?

R475 - It's included as part of this clipfest.

Omg - I know I’ve said it before but I think Joan Van Ark’s hair and outfits in season nine are dread ful! That mullet! I am watching part one of Laura’s funeral - what is that camouflage pajama pantsuit and that messy mullet ponytail- awful….. I think it is sweet when Greg comforts Jason by the pool.

That thick, glossy perm has gone to my head.

R478 Ask me no questions I’ll tell you no Lye!

LOL Lilimae we hardly knew ye.

Is there a recent photo of Pat Peterson? He looks like he might grown up to have some issues with being bald. He was awful cute.

[quote] I think it is sweet when Greg comforts Jason by the pool.

And then kicked him and Daniel out the door to go live with loser Richard. They're going to miss the horses and the trust fund.

It’s almost time for Jill to force the pills on Val. My mid numbs Out on the Mexico story every time….. can you see Jill trying to give Val those pills if Lilimae came home? She would club Jill with a frying pan.

Jill would never get away with it today: Ring camera, cell phone tracking, higher level of security at airports, car tracking devices, and no more answering machines and pay phones. Plus they stopped making wigs out of dead cat hair.

Usually watching almost any show pre 1995 - the cell phones are the game changers. ALOT of telephone mishaps on Seinfeld. So many problems, misunderstandings or dramas could be averted in plot lines if only the characters had a phone! Knots Landing for me the biggest game changer is DNA. Peter Hollister & Sumner? DNA test. Val’s babies every step of the way DNA test. Is Mack really Paige’s dad? DNA test. ….. There were more of them - what were they?

^^From what I remember, Sumner knew Hollister was not his brother, but wanted everyone to believe it for reasons I can't recall. I think Laura knew also.

Of course Peter wasn't his brother. How on Earth could Howard Duff and Ruth Roman produce a child that looked like Hunt Block?!

[quote]can you see Jill trying to give Val those pills if Lilimae came home? She would club Jill with a frying pan.

Or run her over.

^ But then there would have been no office scene of Val going Pamela Voorhees all over Jill's ass.

Greg wanted to push Peter into the political career he gave up when Paul Galveston died and he took over Galveston Industries. He planned to use Peter to push his own political agenda, so he pretended Peter was his brother.

Did Abby ever tap Peter or was he just doing Paige while flirting with underage Olivia. And how did Jill end up being his (secret) real sister? That kind of came out of left field.

Joe Kelly should have been Peter.

Abby fucked Peter, who was fucking Paige and leading Olivia on.

Peter and Jill (whose real name was Dottie) both grew up in Westphall, the town adjacent to Empire Valley whose water was contaminated by Galveston Industries. This led to the death of Peter and Jill’s parents. They both decided to get revenge on Galveston Industries, using separate tactics-Jill through the law, and Peter by using Sylvia Lean to collect millions.

For awhile, they were implying that Peter and Jill were lovers, until they got into a big fight and Peter hugged her and said, “you’re my sister.”

Gary was the only one that knew Jill was Peter’s sister. He did tell Mack after she died.

The worst part of the Peter Hollister murder was Paige’s punishment. Mack made her go to Greg and Abby to apologize-and that was it . She should have been menaced in women’s prison, or Jill could have tried to kill her, too.

I would have killed to see Doug Sheehan play an irredeemable bad guy.

I am watching the Williams’ family introduction. Pat is a lot more interesting than Frank. And goddamn the MacKenzies would be the neighbors from hell, they’re so snoopy.

(R490) Thank you. Are you also R493?

I am r496

Jason Avery was played by Danny Gellis. Anyone know anything about them?

I’ve attached Danny Gellis’ IMDB bio which shifts pronouns from they/them to he/him and back again.

I loved the bit that had Jill carrying around Peter’s cremains for a few episodes — especially when she smacked Paige with the handbag that contained the urn.⚱️

They really nailed Val at the funeral. Karen saying that Val’s emotions are all over her face and Abby mentioning that Val dresses like a teen Queen. Yes - Jill with Peter’s urn was great!

you have to admit what made Knots great, and what the other night time soaps lacked was a sense of humor. Probably about 25% of Knots was pure comedy. Fucking hit with an urn LOL. The funniest thing was that fucking mini skirt Karen wore and Abs reaction to it.

Yes -!Karen and the mini skirt is priceless! …. I think it would have been fun to have “Sally’s Friend@ turn to the camera while she is on the phone with Gary and it’s Lisa Hartman.

The voice of Sally's friend was Teri Austin. But the actress who ended up playing her was Penny Peyser. What was that about?

Sally's friend was Lar Park Lincoln's body and her voice dubbed by Teri Austin. It was a mind fuck to keep viewers guessing her identity until she was revealed in the next season as Peyser. I can't remember if this was before or after Linda's murder. Lar said in an interview she was set to play Sally's friend, but this idea changed after the producers left to produce a new ABC show called Homefront, there was a change in stories and a big decline in Knots.

In the melancholic episode after Linda's death, Karen reflects with some mixed feelings if Linda deserved such a gory end. Once again Karen's repressed lesbian tendencies briefly come to the surface as she feels a mix of relief and disgust over the demise of Linda.

When I feel a mix of relief and disgust - that reveals lesbian tendencies?

Michele Lee was really quite pretty in season one

Did Michele ever blink?

The frilly blouses and short hair Jill sports in the second half of season nine really make her look crazy.

So often characters just fizzle out, and even though you used to like them you're glad they are gone. My personal examples would be Cathy Geary, Ben Gibson or Abby Sumner. But the way they farewelled Laura was very classy. While relegated to sidekick for a long time, they gave her a last episode in which she was in every fucking scene. I thought that was a very nice gesture.

And Jill kinda fizzled out in her last season too. And then the writers were like: 'Ok, your character is so done. But before you leave, could you do one last thing for us? Kill Val.' And out she went with a killer cliffhanger and a bang. Her exit in the trunk was probably the most effective one.

R511

PRODUCER to Constance McCashin:

Good News: You're being given a very special where you're in every scene. It could win you the Emmy!

Bad news! You're fired!!

The Poor Val and the pills episode/arc were just fucking brilliant. mmmimcan'twithommwater SWALLOW THE PILLS VAL.

*gulp*

She really is the og Karen r495…

R5111- Abby Sumner “fizzled out”? Are you demented? What self-respecting Knots fan was happy that Abby was gone? She was the straw that stirred the drink! I’ll grant you her last scene was abysmal but that’s it.

I just finished watching season 9, and I can kind of see your point about Abby, r515. They softened her way too much after Peter Hollister’s death. She came roaring back in her final season in the Murakame storyline, but it was too late-I think Donna Mills decided to leave because of season 9.

.

Yeah, Abby's last season before leaving Knots was really not her best. It was a little bit same old, same old without the same emotional impact. Sometimes I wonder if the writing staff is tasked to make character less interesting when it's clear that the actor is leaving. Writing out a less interesting character won't be perceived as such a big loss.

R518- the writers at Cheers did this in Shelley Long’s final season. They purposefully wrote Diane maddeningly insufferable versus adorably so in an effort to bring the audience to a place of “Good riddance!”

Regarding Donna’s last season- she definitely had a couple classic moments (Karen’s slap, the “Abby scale”) but season 9 was all about Jill’s downfall. Nothing could touch that storyline. And Paige became waaaaay too overexposed. Knots’s business plots were always way too convoluted (Wolfbridge, Empire Valley, Galveston Industries, etc).

What were the circumstances around Donna Mills' exit? Did she leave because she didn't get the raise she wanted? Or was she just done? Was there drama? I never heard anything, other than that she wanted to leave.

I believe part of it was they ran out of decent storyline. Once you reform the bad girl, there's not much more you can do.....Also, I believe Donna Mills adopted a child and wanted a few years to raise her.

^^They deliberately left it open for her to come back, which she did in the final episode. It was almost worth it for her final scene.

Abby to Greg: I'm sorry to leave.

Greg: Not as sorry as the Japanese will be when you get there.

LOL. You have to love Bill Devane's oitch-perfect comic line reads.

After seeing the Abby “Don’t Worry Be Happy” scene with Abby - she’s leaving for a new life with son Brian in tow. She couldn’t be a total diva with her son there. Her singing Don’t Worry BE happy was sort of like in The King and I on the boat on the way to Siam - Anna and her little boy sing “Whistle a Happy Tune and Bo one ever knows I’m Afraid.” It was sort of a clunky ending but she took Olivia’s credit cards to be a good mother - she was singing to Brian showing him they had a good life in front of them

Plus - in that Time frame that song (along with Ko ko mo) was played anywhere, everywhere for months and months and months.

I read her singing the song as a kind of a wink and nod to all the crazy stuff that happens to soap characters and how it all works out in the end. Well, maybe not for Sid, Laura or Pat -- but generally.

Hi Abs.

You’re so Pretty!!

Verna would never capitalize the word pretty…

Verna would never spell the word pretty without a "u" in it

It looks like Plex pulled the latest run of Knots early. They have been running Sisters and Falcon Crest in its place. I get burned out on Knots pretty much after Abby leaves. Thaw last 2 seasons are too dark and a long slog. I am hoping when Knots pops back on schedule it will be with Kenny and Ginger and Sid and his cold. …. The early years are perfect background to clean the house.

I live in Northern California, and the only bright side to the Plex commercials is seeing the adorable twunk firefighter with the mustache in the Proposition 5 commercial.

I just keep getting all of the young people wandering around smiling in a beautiful mountain and being orgasmic over bottled water .