DL, tell me about life in Chicago

I did ten years. It's underated.

In what ways, r1?

I grew up there and visit family about once every few months. First, live by an El stop. You will thank me for this advice in February. Run or walk on the lake front in the mornings as the sun is coming up. Explore the neighborhoods. My favorite is the Southport corridor near Addison but there are so many great ones: Wicker Park, Ukrainian Village, Hyde Park, Lincoln Park, Andersonville, Boys Town, Pilsen. Wow, now I miss Chicago!

The traffic gridlock is terrible, both on the freeways and on the city.

every man looks like jeremy allen white and only wears white tight t-shirts

It is on a downward trajectory. The Magnificent Mile has a 30% vacancy rate.

Agreed. I lived near Water Tower in the aughts and was really sad to see how it's gone down, especially since COVID.

[quote]I did ten years. It's underated.

What we expect from a thread about Chicago.

Oh, dear.

R5 is another "I do English for me, not for anyone else" cunt.

Oh, dear x 4

Not to frighten you, but people are frequently targeted/robbed in the Gold Coast area and downtown, in general. Keep your wits about you. I was mugged near Michigan & Randolph in front of the Aon Center.

It’s like a box of Frango Mints.

That's not Gold Coast. That's The Loop.

TBF he did say Gold Coast and Downtown

Chicago is great. Just choose a great neighborhood to live in and you'll be fine. I know you said you're fine with winters but the bigger problem for me is that Chicago is just completely grey during that time of year. A year or two ago, we beat Seattle for most consecutive cloudy days. And I agree with the poster who said to live next to an El stop.

Never called it downtown. To me, going north to south, it's Gold Coast, then Streeterville, then the Loop once you cross the river.

As a Chicagoan, I will say that I do think Chicago lacks diversity in comparison to cities like Toronto, NYC, DC metro, Bay Area, LA , etc. It's diverse, don't get me wrong, but not as diverse as those cities. And I do think NYC men are hotter and better dressed. But Chicagoans have less of a stick up their ass.

I won't be driving, r4, so there's that.

I lived there for 9 years. The queens there are very provincial - most of them come from just over the Indiana state line but consider themselves worldly. I always found hookups unnecessarily complicated. A lot of psychos.

Hopefully it’s changed.

It can be very dangerous in pockets and in some big areas therefore/because it's very segregated. Sometimes the weather really, really sucks. Politically, it's rotten to the core. The lake looks nice, but it sucks to go near it and I pined for the ocean. There's not a whole lot in the way of places to go through the weekend. Orient for a day. You're in the Midwest and if you drive for four hours you're still in the Midwest. That shit is flat.

It's culturally amazing for American city second only to New York. It can be really beautiful to look at. It does attract a lot of people from the surrounding Midwest, because it doesn't really have any competition. I think most people are parochial everywhere you go. I didn't realize that a lot of people there are a few generations off the farm or from the South. They are more polite and more welcoming and more optimistic than any place on either coast.

I really miss ALL the food and the opera and the blues scene and all the museums and the architecture.

The winters are difficult (less so with climate change I hear) but that's the time of year for art lovers - the world class Chicago Symphony, the Lyric Opera, every major dance company comes thru town and several are based in Chicago, and a lot of theater of every type from Shakespeare to Mamet.

One word: STEAMWORKS!

How to not get mugged in any major city: Put you phone away and keep it there. With nobody carrying cash anymore, it’s the only thing they’re after. It’s called “Apple picking”.

There are some incredible neighborhoods in Chicago. Most are safe. I’ve moved in Wrigleyville, when it was cool and semi-affordable, wouldn’t go back. Lincoln Square/North center is amazing but now overrun with strollers. Andersonville used to be lesbian central, but the gals now call it MANdesreonville.

How about Gold Coast, r22?

R23. Depends on your budget. You can have a fabulous apartment with full amenities and a killer view for about 1/4 what you would pay in Manhattan. But you will probably never socialize with your neighbors. The only nearby nightlife is the worst breeder meat markets you can imagine. But close to a thriving restaurant and gallery scene in “River West”.

Very good Gold Coast address 3 br 2.5 ba 2500 sq ft 6k/mo.

Any good Indian restaurants downtown?

I would say State Street is a great street. They do things they don’t do on Broadway.

[quote]Put you phone away and keep it there. With nobody carrying cash anymore, it’s the only thing they’re after. It’s called “Apple picking”.

iPhones with a passocde/Face ID are virtually impossible to break for the average criminal. Even law enforcement has difficulty doing it. What are they doing with them?

R26, tbh, Chicago Indian food is dissapointing. I'm a brown person who lives very close to Devon. The best Indian restaurants are in the burbs, not the city. Actually, Wicker Park has some very good ones too.

Thanks r29!

R30, no problem. The two Indian restaurants in the burbs that I really enjoyed are Mantra near O'Hare, Priya's Kitchen in Westmont and A2B in Warrenville. In Wicker Park, I remember Cumin being excellent, especially the biriyani. But I think that may be Nepalese.

My bad, that's three restaurants in the burbs.

I always enjoyed India House on W Grand, r26. It'll scratch that itch. What I miss about Chicago is the diversity of ethnic cuisines. There's not just good Mexican restaurants, there's fine dining, Oaxacan, street food, coastal/seafood Mexican, etc. I miss that in the small college town that I now live in.

R33, you are right, India House is good. Gaylord (yes, that's the real name) used to be much better 10 years ago but it's gone way downhill.

In Chicago, all seem to breathe freedom and peace, and to make one forget the world and its sad turmoils.

How old are you, OP? Are you single? I want to weigh in on gay nightlife but would love that info so I can advise accordingly.

I am 40 and single, r36, but I left my party days behind me a decade ago. I'm at the point in my life where I figure, if I meet someone, I meet someone, but if not, that's okay too.

R37- I recommend going to Sunday Showtunes at Sidetrack. It’s a fun, friendly atmosphere and you won’t feel self-conscious as you can just enjoy the videos playing. You’re young(ish) and single- get out there. Age appropriate crowd too. All ages really. Have fun!

I answered my own question because I was genuinely curious.

See below for podcast that addresses iPhone theft (and I assume Android).

The phones are indeed bricks, but organized gangs will ship the phones to other countries, and try to use various methods to try to get you to give up your iCloud credentials (texts, calls, e-mails).

Of course, not everyone uses a passcode, so you are SOL in a case like that.

OP, come to Wednesday night karaoke at Jackhammer. Myself and some other confirmed DL'ers are there most weeks (all about your age). We just need one more member to form a minyan!

You're going to want to learn to toddle, OP.

Chicago is fabulous! I put my girls through college and paid for a country home!

Loved my 12 years in Chicago. Lived in the Gold Coast and Andersonville. Definitely loved Andersonville. Had a killer condo there. Knew lots of nice guys. Strong community vibe. I wouldn't bother looking at places in any other neighborhood as a single 40 year old gay man. You will be a fresh face and have a ball.

Thank you, r38, r40, and r43!

R41 Just because the whole town does it doesn't mean that you have to also.

OP, where are you moving from?

OP, I moved from Chicago a few years ago.

It's not terrible in Near North/Gold Coast but it's really not a super neighborhood-y type of place. You may have a very lovely apartment but it can be a very sterile place where people come and go. It's probably the NYC equivalent of living near/in Times Square. And it is near some of the more robbery prone places - the red line el stop near State (I think it's Chicago, near a McDonald's) is a notorious place to be attacked and Michigan Avenue has had a number of thefts.

Not sure if you need to be near downtown for work but I might have tried for an apartment in the West Loop, which has some neighborhood feel to it. If you could live anywhere in the city, I'd want to be in Ravenswood/Andersonville, as you'd be closest to a gay scene that had other men over 35 - Boystown is really for a younger party crowd.

Chicago can be a hard but not impossible city to date in. There's a bit of a distance bias.....I've had guys tell me I lived too many el stops away or too far for them to come and see me (I was 15-20 minutes away)....queens can be lazy about hooking up, LOL! My bf ignored that rule when we got together, so it's not impossible.

I miss the culture there, for sure. Concerts every night of the week. Free classical music recitals in several spots downtown. I have to say I left before COVID and know the city restaurant scene was hit hard, but.....you could go to a new restaurant every night and not run out of places for, well, forever.

The negatives of downtown: the density, the thieves, and the helicopters that will incessantly fly overhead at all hours of the day and night - traffic and police.

There's a lot to explore, though.

Thank you, r47! Thant was super helpful.

r46 I am originally a Midwesterner, but I've spent the last decade in New England, and I was in LA for the past year. (I like Boston/New England, but am not a big fan of LA.)

R46- if you liked Boston, you will really like Chicago. Similar vibes to the neighborhoods and a bonus is the men in Chicago won’t have that Masshole aloofness so prevalent in Boston which is a well earned stereotype in my opinion.

I agree with R47 that the Near North and Gold Coast area can be a bit soul-less but I wouldn't suggest the West Loop as an alternative. The WL is new construction and converted warehouses - all pretty sterile - inhabited mostly by single straight yuppies. (Coffee bar! Pool table! Hot tub! Sun deck!) Great area for trendy restaurants and bars which appeal to that crowd, but not much in terms of a "neighborhood" feel. The areas north of Near North / Gold Coast along Lake Shore Drive, particularly Lincoln Park and Lakeview, have a more homey, neighborhood feel while still being minutes away from the Mag Mile and the Loop.

R50 I don't disagree with you at all, but I made that suggestion with the idea that OP has to be in/near the loop (which may or may not be the case).

The Gold Coast/Near North, West Loop and South Loop are the three closest neighborhoods and they're probably all very similar and sterile, but the WL would be the most neighborhood-ish of those three.

Of course Lincoln Park, etc. all are much nicer and have a much warmer feel to them, but they're also farther out. Once you go north of North Avenue or farther than 12-16 blocks south or west you're starting to talk about a 30-45 minute commute.

R51, I live in Lakeview and take the LSD express bus from Roscoe / LSD to Mag Mile. It's 12-14 minutes and runs every few minutes during morning and evening rush hours. Less often during regular hours.

Evanston is lovely and has really inexpensive real estate.

I'm a fan of live blues.

Can anyone recommend good clubs?

This is the connoisseur's favourite, r54.

R54.

Thank you r55 and r56!

Telling people that I'm moving to Chicago is a great political litmus test. The two replies I tend to receive:

"Chicago, what a great city! Be sure to check out the Art Institiute/the Field/Botanic Garden."

"Chicago, omg!!!j! You're going to get SHOT EVERY DAY."

It's a great city and four people were just shot to death on a CTA train to the suburbs.

Both statements can be true at the same time.

Try Ukrainian Village. It's beautiful.

I wonder where OP moved? I hope he didn't move to West Loop. West Loop is fiun, it's like visiting Brooklyn, when you live in Manhattan. The public transit is more annoying than usual for Chicago and it's just sort of disconnected from the other happening places. The gay people I know that live there LOVE the area, because it's really nice, but hate being so far from everything else. OP, if you want to take part in the gay scene I wouldn't do West Loop because you will doom yourself to countless nights taking overpriced Ubers to and from Lakeview. Not the end of the world, but nothing beats having the option to walk home (mile plus away), take a car, or easy public transit options. West Loop is anything but easy to reach.

Op, move to Lincoln Park or Lake View for your first year, then explore what works from there. As a gay man, you won't regret being in those locations year one.

Gold Coast, r60

Respect r61. I was down there with a hookup Saturday morning. Was gorgeous out and I love the energy in Gold Cost, during the day. At night, eh.

R60, the biggest nuisance for west loop is that it's off the green line, not the red line.

Was born in Chicago and returned for a couple of years after grad school.

Coldest winters and hottest summers I ever suffered through.

Nothing, NOTHING made it endurable.

MARY r64

r64 = Paul Butterfield

I grew up in Oak Park and went to college in Evanston. Both on El lines, both have affordable housing. O is faster trip to the Loop, but, while there are plenty of gay folk in OP, I don’t think there is gay nightlife without a car. Evanston is more accessible by El to North side gay life. I always found both pretty safe and interesting on their own terms.

[quote] The gay people I know that live there LOVE the area, because it's really nice, but hate being so far from everything else.

I agree with this excellent writer. You should live closer to the nice things and not by the other things, or something.

R67- how old are you? I grew up in Oak Park as well. I feel lucky to have grown up there. It’s progressive as far as suburbs go.

Oak Park is extremely progressive. Many gay people live there. It's a great streetcar suburb and it continues to get "cooler" with each passing year.

r63 which means a transfer at the Loop. Either your gonna have to pay to go from above ground to underground for the Red Line, or you have to wait for the Brown line, which will take longer getting north (depending you your destination). West Loop is a chore to reach if using the CTA compared to other parts of town. I'd also add Logan Square to that equation.

It has been said Oak Park is so liberal, that they exit on the left. And it’s true, the exit ramps on I-290 are positioned to have you get off from the median.

R72, now that's funny. And it really is liberal. The Oak Park neighborhood association--I think that's what it's called, I could be wrong--actively tries to promote diversity. And it shows. Oak Park is one of the few truly integrated areas in the Chicago area.

Every North Side neighborhood that is within two-three miles of the lake is integrated. Only a third of the city is white.

Chicago winters and summers are far more mild, except for maybe four days each season. A tip of the hat to climate change, Here's Google AI:

"Climate change is affecting Chicago's weather in several ways, including:

Rising temperatures: Chicago's average temperature has increased by 2.6°F since 1980. By 2050, Chicago could experience an average of 38 days per year with temperatures over 92.7°F.

More extreme heat waves: Climate change is increasing the frequency and intensity of heat waves.

Heavier rainstorms: Chicago could experience more damaging rainstorms.

Growing flood risks: Chicago could experience greater flood risks.

Warmer winters: Chicago's winters have warmed by 0.55°F per decade since 1980. "

.

r75 I know I love it. Another example of global warming being an issue for the poors in the world. We are sitting pretty up here in Chicago. Just need to watch out for them tornados.

Chicago is one of the American locations most susceptible to wet bulb if temperatures keep increasing. Leading to more heat exhaustion and heat stroke.

R69 I was born there in 1957 and lived there until I started college in 1975; I went to Northwestern in Evanston. Went back summers until my folks retired to Glen Ellyn around 1970 or 81. Moved to teaching job in central Illinois and then out of state since. Went back for a year , 2003-04, for a sabbatical leave, when I did more graduate work. Growing up always lived west of East Avenue, first in South Oak Park Avenue. Sabbatical year lived two blocks from Austin stop on the Blue Kine ;the Arts District). Would move back in a heartbeat, but am planted in smalltown upstate Collegetown in NYS because of my husband’s health.

Again, only an issue if you are homeless. Rest of us have AC and a roof over our heads.

R78- thanks for answering! I was born there in 1976. We were two ships :)

Cicero is near Oak Park and is very corrupt. It’s about 90% Hispanic and the rest are old white republicans who have or had connections with the city. The type of place you go to awful schools but with the right family, you can get a do nothing job at one of the 3 park districts.

Cicero is not to be considered. Maybe Berwyn, but even then .,,

Everything I know about Chicago I learned from ER

I found it exponentially easier to get on a Green Line el to go home to the West Loop than a Brown Line one, which was always full as a sardine can before I could even get on board, so I don't see it as a "chore."

I loved living in Andersonville but neither the Brown nor Red Lines were very convenient, and you could get pregnant, gestate a baby and squat and shit it out in the time the 22 takes to go the whole way from Andersonville to downtown.....because it stops at EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. STREET. on the way down.

CHEF!! YES, CHEF!!!

I don't know how accurate The Bear is, but I wasn't far from all the Restaurant Row places in the 00s and 10s. There was a nice stretch of time where Randolph really was a place where fantastic new restaurants opened that were inventive, but that was pretty much done by around 2014, when all the corporate places moved in, and all the quirky places opened in Wicker Park and Humboldt Park instead.

Chicago is underrated as it as become such a meme about crime. But it's great city, I think it is clearly America's second best urban area after NY. And so much more affordable compared to NYC, SF, Boston, LA.

It is very livable.....though some neighborhoods aren't very affordable.

R86, I think Pilsen and Logan Square have the more interesting restaurants nowadays.

[quote]My favorite is the Southport corridor near Addison

Are you joking? It's triple-wide stroller land. The women are all vacuous trophy wives in Lululemon tights and every restaurant and store is filled with feral children being encouraged to have "experiences" at the expense of shoppers and sentient adults. It's a weigh station on the road to Naperville where whiteness goes to die.

R90, not that poster, but I loved Julius Meinl. Sucks that it closed down. Great food, desserts and coffee.

r90, ooh, my sister lives in downers grove and I LURVE that analogy about Naperville

What the hell went wrong at Chicago’s Lyric Opera that this season’s opening night is a Patti Lupone concert?

Southport is absolutely whiteness central.....where all the drunken Cubs game sluts, the ones that flashed their tits and would blow anything that moved, all moved to when they got married to their banking/investment broker husbands. The guys all go to Cubs games and the women shop and drink coffee.

Boystown used to be nice, but it's been taken over by stroller fraus as well, with a dollop of criming trannies (thanks, Center on Halsted!)

R94, Boystown is still good, you just have to go east of Halsted. But, to be fair, there has been a lot of gentrification and you will find just as many gays now in Uptown, Andersonville, Edgewater, Buena Park and even Roger's Park (not as much as the other neighborhoods listed...but not too far behind).

Rogers Park Social is a great hang

Winter in Chicago is down to two weeks in January and a freak third weekend in February. The city has been planting new trees with the prediction that by 2050 we will have the climate of 2000-era Baton Rouge. Thanks Climate Change!

And we have unlimited fresh water and sandy loam for soil.

Underrated, but also very overrated. If you ask some people you would think it was Atlantis based on how it gets talked about. Don’t believe the hype. It’s a good city, but it isn’t anything special.

R98, I think it is special but I'm not blind to its flaws at all. It needs to be be more walkable and it's transit is horrendous. Someone was shot on the red line last week! And that's without mentioning the drug use on there plus the crime. Yes, we alll know most of the crime is centered in the south and west sides but that doesn't make it "ok".

Too many lesbians.

*its

Also your race, OP. Believe it or not but it has a large impact on whether you will enjoy this city or not, unfortunately.

Chicago? I know a whoopee spot where the gin is cold, but the piano's hot. It's just a noisy hall, where there's a nightly brawl, and all that jazz.

I think it's great since I'm from there and my family is still there. Great restaurants like, little beef sandwich shops, pizza, and a lot of fine dining. The museums, and The Adler Planetaruim are top notch. I miss it everyday and have thought about going back home in the last 2 years.

That is not true R74. Even those neighborhoods are still segregated with the more trendier spots being predominantly White.

R105, as a Chicagoan, I can say you are correct. Chicago is extremely segregated. I always knew that but it became VERY obvious to me when I visited Montreal. It was so much more integrated than Chicago, it's not even a fair comparison.

Chicago is the most western, I think, of all the very old school northern rust belt cities. Or is it the Twin Cities? Redlining, the locations where industry happened, and a few other factors all led to the massive amounts of segregation.

Milwaukee is worse, I think, but on a way smaller scale.

People that are shocked about shootings in Chicago just don't understand how absolutely devoid of resources places like Englewood and Lawndale are. No jobs, no possibility of new jobs, and the people who couldn't or won't leave are absolutely surviving day to day - and killing each other, fighting over the few crumbs they do get.

The north side is integrated, sure, but with the exception of Rogers Park and Uptown those neighborhoods are all medium to high income spots. And even those two neighborhoods are becoming more and more gentrified, although Uptown still struggles with gangs.

Chicago really hates its mayor and that includes everyone except his patronage cronies and the DSA. His latest boner is spending 88K on redecorating an office for his wife. Whenever criticized, he screams racism. I don't see Republicans winning anything, but he's got to go.

The principal issue is that the city faces immense debit and he just wants to run up more and, in fact, already has..

^ Plus his fetish for NASCAR Drag at the taxpayer's expense.

Why live in the gold coast? It's fine - but touristy, super white, wealthy and straight. Boring - and more expensive than it should be.

He sucks so much.

I could never ever do that

"One word: STEAMWORKS!"

Four words: NACREAOUS LAYER OF PERMACUM!!!!

Oldtown is much more preferrable to the Gold Coast.

Wrigleyville is friendly.

Mind you don't slip, though.

R16 Chicago is less diverse than the Bay Area? I’ve never been to the Bay Area that’s just surprising to hear. Chicago is an absolutely beautiful city. For a big urban landscape it’s just glorious, splendid architecture. It’s a shame about the high murder rate because it is much nicer than NYC. And y’all know how I feel about NYC.

As of last year, Chicago had the 28th highest murder rate.

I think it's difficult to compare two cities in terms of racial segregation. Only 7% of the Bay Area is black (compared to 28% of Chicago)- and look at a map - the population is heavily concentrated in and around Oakland.

Boston is one of the whitest cities I've ever been to - and the black population is heavily segregated to a few areas on the south side.

For a lot of gays, they are going to stick to the north side of Chicago where the 3 gay communities are (Wrigleyville, Andersonville, Rogers Park), which is predominantly wealthier and white, although by no means exclusively so.

Yes it's a problem, but I think people blow it out of proportion and context to other cities.

NYC is one of the top 10 most segregated cities in the US as well - but you can't tell New Yorkers that.

NYC is segregated but highly diverse. Same with Chicago. DC actually might be the most racially integrated city in America right now. I think Richmond, a small city, is also mad integrated.

Cold.

R116, yes, the Bay Area is far more diverse than Chicago. Only about 18% of the Chicago area is foreign-born. NYC, LA, and the Bay Area all have much larger percentages. I think that's due to Chicago being the midwest/rust belt capital. It just doesn't attract as many foreign born people as those other places.

As a Chicagoan, it's true that NYC has a similar level of housing segregation but different ethnic groups seem to intermingle way more versus Chicago due to NYC being way more global.

Here's your map. Blacks are heavily concentrated on the south and west sides; whites on the north and northwest side and Hispanics are tucked in between. Rogers Park is 45 percent white, 25 percent Black. The South Loop, a very desirable area, is 16 percent Black, 48 percent white. ,Hyde Park is 45 percent white; 26 percent Black. Austin is considered to be the only neighborhood with an almost even distribution of Blacks and whites. Chicago's whitest neighborhoods are Mount Greenwood, cop heaven, and Lincolm Park.

Segregation is a historical fact. Chicago is still the most segregated city in the country. However, that doesn't mean your workplace won't be diverse. It really depends on your profession. My partner worked for a majority Black nonprofit as a grant writer. I taught at a school where the administration heads were all POC and a third of the students were white. .

I can understand if this is a dealbreaker for you.

R122 - it's not the most segregated city in the country. Jeez - this whole segregation discussion is akin to talking about Most Racist City. There are a lot of different reasons for segregation - not just because of discriminatory policies.

Chicago is a blue city - open to all people of all types. Stop making it out to be this massively racist city because of housing maps - it's not.

R123, not R122 but Chicago is certainly in the top 10 of most segregated American cities and there is a long history behind that. It's just a fact. That's true for all the rust belt cities. The racism combined with the white flight is what made them so segregated today.

I didn't make it up. It comes from various sources. Try Chicago Public Radio for starters.

Chicago is nowhere near as bad as Detroit or St. Louis.

Chicago does feel noticeably less diverse than NYC, SF, LA.

Remember diversity is not just black people. Its how many languages you hear walking around, how many people from different countries and cultures you see. It doesn't feel quite feel as cosmopolitan and global melting pot as they do.

A city smack in the midwest not cosmpolitan? Quelle surprise.

Go spend a week in Iowa. You'll be begging for a trip to Chicago.

Chicago and maybe Austin is the best flyover can do.

[quote]Its how many languages you hear walking around, how many people from different countries and cultures you see.

Whether it's Michigan Avenue's Mag Mile, Clark Street in Andersonville, Lincoln in Lincoln Square or Devon in Roger's Park, I see and hear plenty of multi-culturalism. I think some of you are conflating Naperville with Chicago.,

Napertucky!

R131 - Agreed - I lived in Chicago for 20 years. On my condo floor alone, we had Lithuanian, Japanese, French, Brazilian, and Israeli nationals.

I heard other languages every single day. Within a 1 mile radius from my place, there were probably 40 different ethnic restaurants - Thai, Vietnamese, Eritrean, Cuban, Lebanese, Northern Indian, Japanese, Mexican, Salvadorean, Chinese, Greek, Moroccan, Serbian, - it goes on and on.

I honestly don't know what some of you are talking about. And to say that housing segregation is a modern indicator of racism is bullshit. Yes, some of it is a hangover from redlining and racist policies from 50-70 years ago, but that was the case in most American cities.

Everybody banging on about Chicago's murder rate and housing segregation is just spewing right-wing bullshit points. You're not going to feel like you're in some deep racist city in Chicago - in fact the complete opposite is true.

All I know of it is that magats constantly bring up Chicago when screeching about liberal cities.

R134 - and that's because of Obama. They never did it before then - it was always SF.

r134, it's either them or us

R133, I do to but you Chicago just does not compare to the coastal cities in that regard. Or Montreal or Toronto (especially the latter).

Who cares? I hear people speaking Spanish every day on the bus. Love Montreal and all the cities you mentioned but if it's a competition for the most cosmopolitan city rather than the most livable, affordable and easiest go without a car, Chicago will always lose. Now, wear your victory banner proudly.

R138, that's true. But Chicago is quickly becoming more unnafordable. I was a college student in the 00s. Back then, Chicago was held up positively versus the big coastal cities due to how it was more friendly to buidling housing than those cities. But now, Chicago isn't building a lot. It continues to get more expensive and the idea of it being "affordable" by comparison to it's coastal cities will go away if it doesn't start building housing ASAP.

r139, you know what you did. Repent!

Reading comprehension r131 and r133.

Did I say Chicago isn't diverse? Obviously compared to some random places is it is more cosmopolitan, but compared to peer metros like NY, LA and SF it is noticeably less so. Which if you look up the numbers that it is just a fact.

R141, as a Chicagoan, I can say you are correct. Chicago even feels "midwestern" versus the more globally oriented East and West Coast cities.

Too bad we don't have mimes in striped jerseys doing Marcel Marceau's "trapped in a box" routine on every corner. You have to go to the University of Chicago to see men in berets and they're physicists. And the women have cankles and wear Eddie Bauer in the winter. And men of a certain age from the Southwest side say youse rather than you. And many folks are overweight although many are gym rats.

These are things that visitors might readily notice but we residents don't give a fuck about. We go home to our spacious, affordable abodes, call some neighbors or friends and kick back in the yard or terrace with a few beers. Note: yard or terrace, not metal fire escapes we decorate with plants and pretend are balconies.

It's not for everybody but neither is New York.

Hog Butcher for the World,

Tool Maker, Stacker of Wheat,

Player with Railroads and the Nation's Freight Handler;

Stormy, husky, brawling,

City of the Big Shoulders

City of bad mayors and good hot dogs.

R143 is a perfect example of the defensive, parochial, provincial bullshit that comes from Chicagoland's permanent inferiority complex. You don't even have to bring it up. They usually trigger themselves.

Apparently Little Village is on the cusp of gentrification.

Inferiority complex when I lived and worked in NYC and half my family is from there.? Good try. I have no problem admitting some of Chicago is parochial and some buy into the Second City bullshit and feel they should be living elsewhere. They usually leave, which is fine. People should act on their dreams. The plain meaning of what I wrote is that almost no one gives a fuck that Chicago isn't as cosmopolitan as lovely Montreal or as much of a gateway to the Southern hemisphere as Miami. These places undoubtedly have their charms. So does Chicago and a lot --such as kicking back with brewskis on one's spacious patio--may not be observable to tourists.

Find someone else to insult and fight with. Chicagoans are happy people.

So you're both odd and a cliche at the same time. Got it.

But happy and in no need of insulting strangers. And you;re not.

R141 - I lived in NYC for 10 years - so you can cut the crap. Yes - NYC has a lot of diversity and you come in contact with it more often due to density, walking culture and subways. But don't act like the city isn't also segregated into racial neighborhoods - including Asian, Latino and Black.

I'm just saying that holding up neighborhood segregation as some glorified proof of racial equality is bullshit. You're looking at an entire city. Tell me what the demographics of Chelsea, UWS, WeHo, Santa Monica and other places are.

Yes, I will admit - there are lot of young white people who move to Chicago from surrounding states. You can't run from that - it's just the truth. But that doesn't mean Chicago isn't multi-cultural or has a lot of offerings that go along with that.

It's gone downhill becaue Daley let them privatize parking, first lots and then meters, allowing them to quadruple prices and making Chicago uncompetitive with its suburbs. Mag Mile survived awhile on the tourist trade, but that's not enough to keep it at its former level. Daley was a closeted Republican who threw a 60th birthday bash for GW Bush and roomed with fascist heir Bautista in college at Brown. He should never have been put in charge of Chicago. He had no feel for what was reasonable, unlike his dad.

And his brotther was an investment banker who made all these stupid privatization deals like the SKyway.

The Daleys also bungled the FLorida recount for Gore. That's why Bush was so keen on them: he owed them.

Mayor Daley also bulldozed an airport runway overnight because he didn’t want it there anymore.

QAnd I think we can say they deliberately bungled it. Like some secret society of spoiled rich kids.

The reason NYC appears less segregated than Chicago is because a lot of different races tend to share spaces, that and the segregation isn't really as bad as it is in Chicago. I mean sure, you have your ethnic enclaves as with every city but in nyc it's more of a patchworks of some sort. And you'll see all kinds of people(Black White Asian Hispanic in places like Central Park). Whereas in Chicago you have entire swathes living on one side of the city separated from others. Its alot harder to share living spaces when the people around you in a 2 mile radius all looks the same. The only time you will see people mix is usually downtown where everyone goes to hang out or work, or the very few neighborhoods that can be considered ethnically diverse. R118

I don't know R151, Chelsea and Hell's Kitchen demographics are looking a lot more Diverse than Chicago's Gayborhoods are based on a quick Google search. UWS reminds me very much of Lincoln Park in Chicago.

With that being said, Chicago has a TON of underbelly racism from my experience growing up there. It's not the hatred you see down South but more of a fake, performative tolerance. And, a lot of that I feel stems from the city being so racially segregated. Sure, you have a few truly diverse neighborhoods but that is not the norm for the people living in that city. This type of isolation can foster stereotypes and lead to some racist attitudes between the people. I mean, just look at Chicago's city politics and you can already tell that's the case, besides the few true progressives that live in the city. Everyone is looking out for their own piece of the pie BECAUSE it's so segregated lol.

And R133, I don't think talking about Chicago's segregation problem is a right wing talking point . It's just a fact LOL.

R158, that racism you are talking about is all over the rust belt. However, I think the fact that Chicago attracts people from all over (by comparison to the rest of the rust belt) lessens this.

If you think Chicago has a racist underbelly, try Houston and Dallas.

20% of Chicago is Mexican. Lots of great reasonably priced food

Chicago does have a lot of great Mexican food everywhere. Some of the burbs--especially Melrose Park--do as well.

And you can go next door over to to Stone Park where there are bars which advertise “fashion shows” and plenty of fleabag motels.

Eh, considering the fact that if you’re Black in Chicago you’re pretty much looked at as a second class citizen, I’ll take my chances in Dallas or Houston R160. I hear Houston is becoming very diverse and integrated. So there’s that.

Sorry, we're on our fourth Black mayor.

It’s interesting how just like any place people always know the transplant/touristy areas. For the pearl clutchers, there are tranquil and downright dark parts of the city with quiet, safe streets that that large unique homes on large yards. Think the northwest side like Old Edison Park, Norwood Park or Edgebrook. Or down in Beverly. The latter has some issues but these are neighborhoods outsiders hardly even conceive of.

By dark, I mean it gets dark at night. Fewer street lights it’s like the suburbs.

Edison Park has a wiki. Cool area, on a map the streets look like a star.

R164 has never been to Houston or Dallas and yet somehow thinks it's this magic racial utopia? It's fucking TEXAS. C'mon now.

Ah, I wasn't aware collecting Black mayors alleviated all the racial issues. My apologies R165. Where do most of the Black people live again?

You left out Sauganash R166, the nicest one of all.

Northern cities like Chicago and Milwaukee appear segregated compared to southern cities where a slave/servant class typically lived in close proximity to the whites for service purposes, because they came north for industrial employment and were confined to certain districts, or sometimes even chose them. But they still offered more opportunity that southern cities and have proved better at providing leaders.

R171 A lady never tells. But yeah even I forgot it and I have family in that area.

I read that a Chicago couple on Tiktok goes on an annual search for the best crab rangoons. I am so embarrassed for my city. And doubly so because the Tribune wrote about it without sneering.

Chicago at Christmas time is beautiful.

I found the hook up scene and the apps very strange there. The guys were very stand offish. They acted like they were some sort of prizes. However, I did fuck a cop.

I spent much of my working life in (but not living in) Chicago. At least 1 week out of 3 for 33 years. Chicago is the only 'up north' city I would ever consider living in. I also spent a great deal of time (actually full time for 2 1/2 years) in NYC. Chicago is so much nicer than NYC. It's clean, easy to get around, has tons of things to do, and like you OP, I enjoy the cold winter months.

Too many lesbians.

What's wrong with lesbians? Ain't nothing wrong with a little bingo, a little cunnilingus. I love lesbians.

There's a fun little bar just west of Edgewatrer's Clark Street around Balmoral and Damen. A complete hole in the wall. But you can smoke there. Not legally, but they allow it. When my smoking friend asked how they got away with it, the tattoo'ed dyke running the bar winked and said, "Snitches get stitches."

THAT'S Chicago...

Is the smoking bar Richard’s? The bartenders there are all old guys with Mafia ties.

We sing and dance all day long and go to restaurants in Andersonville such as Big Jones and Little Bad Wolf with discreet stops at Nuts on Clark.

no, r181. It's much father north.

Lived in Ravenswood on the Brown Line for five years and it was absolutely awesome until Lori Lightfoot became mayor. Things were starting to stagger just a bit under her watch and then COVID happened, she locked down everything, got her hair done, and it went downhill. I hear it's getting back up to pre-Lightfoot goodness, which is great because Chicago is an awesome city.

Someone else mentioned you want to live very close to an 'L' stop and I absolutely agree. Brown Light was always my favorite for reasonable housing costs on the north side.

^ Brown Line, not light

Actually Brandon Johnson makes Lori look like a combo of Lincoln and FDR. The guy is a disaster.

Find a rich guy and move to Naperville.

R186, it's true. Brandon is the joke of the country. He has a 15% approval rating! He makes any incompetent mayor of the past look like (as you mentioned) Lincoln and FDR. Seriously, even Mayor Adams is laughing at him (probably). I think what we are seeing is the bottom of the progressive movement in America's largest metro areas. People are sick of lax attitudes to violent crime, property crime, the homeless, public transit, etc.

That translates not to electing centrist Democrats, not Republicans. In Brandon's case, he's created a backlash toward the teacher's union, his former employer.

R189, you meant to say "translates to electing centrist Democrats", right? Assuming so, I completely agree. The teacher's union is off its rocker, they need to be knocked down a peg. It's also insane that something like 33% of the budget goes to pensions/debt. No wonder nothing really seems to get done in this city!

More batshit crazy facts--Chicago's budget is 62% higher than in 2019. That is not sustainable. And Brandon was must be the most arrogant person ever to think that property tax increase would pass. Instead, it was the humiliating defeat he could expect (0 aldermen voted for it). And he had the nerve to blame it on the aldermen not being mature/adult enough. This is the man who puts pastors in all the roles he can fill.

Correct. r/189

Not to mention his comms head was just fired over sexual harassment claims. We elected a centrist DA--not a Republican. Now to clean the crazies out of City Council. I favor Preckwinkle for mayor. I voted for her in the primary but she didn't make it. Competent administrator, not a showboat.

Ah, the Chicago cliquiness and pretentiousness R176. Don’t miss it at all.

Chicago can be clique compared to New York but not compared to Toronto, Seattle, Boston, Milwaukee, etc. It's not pretentious though. I find Toronto men to be the most frigid and standoffish of the cities I've been to. Montrealers and New Yorkers are far more direct, extroverted and hotter than men from Toronto.

It's cold today. I recently noticed I had at least five down and down alternative coats and jackets. That's Chicago.

It is, r195!

[quote]Chicago can be clique compared to New York but not compared to Toronto, Seattle, Boston, Milwaukee, etc.

Or Portland. The "Northwest Freeze" is real, compounded by the strange fact that so many people are proud of the fact they have no social skills.

Chicago is a good place to get murdered

Don’t threaten me with a good time!

R197, right, Minneapolis is the same, must be a Scandinavian thing. Chicagoans are extroverted by Midwest standards. But I really do think New Yorkers are more direct and extroverted. They will often go out of their way to help you.

Coldest Thanksgiving in ten years.

It's cold this weekend too.

I grew up outside Chicago and spent my 20s there, moving to NYC at 29. I never found my people in my hometown but somehow found an amazing group of gay friends in NYC which is far more intimidating to most people. I agree that Chicago is weirdly cliquey and unfriendly despite its Midwestern folksy reputation. Give me NYC any day of the week, thank you very much.

lots of drinking and lots of drunks

Oh I can’t. It’s a secret