Seriously considering moving out of the US

I lived in Japan for five years and I speak the language. Trust me when I say you don't want to live there.

Denmark

Brasil.

r1 Interesting. I've heard the exact opposite from multiple people who've lived there. I also speak the language and it's the only other one that I can communicate in well enough other than English. Why the negative opinion?

r2 and r3 I'm trying to stick to countries that I'd have little to no language barriers in. I don't speak Danish or Portuguese. But am intrigued to hear why you chose those.

I'm moving to the UK before the end of the year. Thanks to my parents I have British and Irish citizenship. The UK is a bit of a basket case - not sure the new govt over there will fix that any time soon, realistically - but London, here I come. Maybe somewhere in the EU further down the line.

Would rather go to Australia, but that's not an option for me.

Organized crime plays a huge role in local politics and government. There is incredible racism that determines your access to services and goods. Violence against women is accepted. The national government does a piss poor job of managing natural disasters. That's just a few reasons. I trained as a historian of Japan (PhD, not someone who dabbled in an MA program) but I since left that behind. If I had to do an Asian country, I might choose Korea. The government and managerial class have a lot more experience dealing with Americans due to the military presence. That opens its own set of problems but if there were really a crisis I think they'd handle it better than Japan at this point.

You'd still have to depend on U.S./NATO protection, OP. No man is an island. Do you really want to live that close to Russia?

Canada is the obvious choice.

Bangcock

I think Canada, Australia, UK, NZ, would all be great - but which one can you get into? I remember that Canada has some kind of "points" system to see if you qualify. I assume all of them will take you if you're rich enough.

I'm not, so it's a pipe dream. Probably couldn't swing one of those expat towns in Mexico.

Oh, how's Puerto Rico? Can't Americans move there if they want to?

The UK is at present a busted flush. Glad to see Labour win, but they've an uphill battle.

Australia is off my list for cultural and climate reasons.

I would not do well in Japan, although I love the culture.

I left off Ireland. Lived there for six months in 2000 - it was great, but the job ended. It's easy to think that anywhere but US would be better, considering the coming theocracy (some of which we already have, with abortion restrictions, etc.)

Puerto Rico [italic]is[/italic] part of America and thus not out of reach of the orange idiot. Don't go there.

[quote]Canada is the obvious choice.

r8 I grew up in Detroit and spent a lot of time (entire summers) in Windsor and Toronto because I have family there. Canada is nothing special to me and is too close to the US, which I'd like to get as far away from as possible, at this time.

If moving out of the country is a response to a possible Trump presidency, you're allowing an 80-year-old felon with a limited existence of ten years or so on the planet to determine your making such a radical move?

If he doesn't get in, are you still moving? And if he does, will you move back when the coast is clear?

[quote]I remember that Canada has some kind of "points" system to see if you qualify.

r10 My father emigrated to Canada. He had a whole felony and was thousands of dollars in arrears for child support at the time. After he cleared up the child support problem, they accepted him and he gained Canadian citizenship. Their system seems quite lax taking that into consideration.

r15 This has nothing to do with who is president. I've had it in the back of my mind to leave this country since I was a teenager. My first choice, at the time, was Japan which is why I started learning Japanese when I was 16.

As I've gotten older, other countries have come on my radar as possibilities, but I have never really liked it here. It might be because I hated my local/surrounding environment (Detroit) and the weather, but I'm seriously considering taking the leap and peacing out from this country because I've never really liked it.

I would choose Ireland over the UK or Australia. I go there every year to visit family. It's a wonderful place.

Obviously only you can decide that for yourself, R17. It's a big country beyond Detroit. There's Hawaii, for instance. Is Japan a country amenable to taking foreigners in?

[quote]Organized crime plays a huge role in local politics and government. There is incredible racism that determines your access to services and goods. Violence against women is accepted.

r6 I feel like this is everywhere and, thus, inescapable to some degree. That said, Japan is very nationalistic and "Japanese people first" but I feel like every country should be like that to maintain its sovereignty.

You're right about the natural disaster response issue and that is the main reason I'm hesitant. As far as the people, knowing me, I'd end up being hikikomori, anyway, so it's whatever.

Or the UK? Or Australia? It's not like all these countries are just dying to take in discontent Americans.

r18 Do the Irish people come with subtitles? Kidding. I may consider that, also. I keep forgetting that Northern Ireland is the only part of Ireland in the UK.

r19 Growing up in Detroit really dulled my outlook on the world and life, in general. It was severely depressing and I hated every second of it. Perhaps the desire to leave the US was an extreme, "teen angst," response at the time but as time went on, moving to another country has seemed like a good idea if for no other reason than to experience another culture and round myself out.

Japan is "accepting" of 'the gaijin' (foreigners) to an extent. A lot of expats, I think, may confuse their cultural practice of being non-confrontational and polite for "acceptance." That is another reason why they've been bumped down to #3 on my list from #1.

Wherever you go, you're in the Five Eyes bullseye.

US, UK, Canada, New Zealand, Australia. Israel, The American Anglo- Zion bitch team.

When the nuclear bombs fly, you're going to bombed, fried and irradiated with the rest of us.

So eat your meat pies and TimTams real quick

Why would anyone waste a bomb on New Zealand? I hear it's where all the uber rich are buying up estates - for the coming armageddon.

In his show (since the debate), Jon Stewart started off by saying, excuse me, my New Zealand realtor is calling and I have to take this!

I wouldn't recommend Northern Ireland, r22. It's poorer and more conservative than then the Republic. My family is from SE Ireland and it's very nice. It has the best weather in Ireland and it's mostly within commuting distance distance of Dublin (if you're planning on working or just want access to Ireland's only major city)

If you haven't read between the lines, OP is a "banana", an Amerasian: yellow on the outside and white inside.

I just deleted him on Grindr.

Then go!

Agree with R28--after mulling this over since your teens, what are you waiting for, OP? And why a DL poll--are you really in need of our opinion?

r27 I'm a Black lesbian...

r29 I just find it interesting discussion. Also, it doesn't hurt to get the thoughts of people who actually lived/live in those countries on what these places are like. I take it you don't read reviews of a restaurant you've never dined in prior to patronizing the establishment?

^ to be an intersting

What do you plan to do for work? That more than anything will probably determine your options.

OP, there is a vast vast amount of choices to make in the USA , georgia is beautiful country and no snow.

Unless you can meet the requirements, you can't just move to another country. The process for legal residency is often long, complicated and costly.

A friend of mine moved to Spain.

I’m Australian and lived in the US for almost 20 years, moved back to Sydney about 5 years ago. The capital cities are vibrant, diverse, fun and welcoming. It’s a great lifestyle, the business side of life is sophisticated and culturally Sydney punches above its weight. Further, Australian are some of the richest, most diverse and friendly people on earth. On the downside, the housing crisis here is extreme and the country is increasingly expensive. Families are being forced to live long distances from downtown, given pricing pressures. The lesbian scene, is pretty lame / small, but friendly.

As with any big investment, come down and check the place out for a vacation.

[quote] A friend of mine moved to Spain.

Very informative post.

[quote] Puerto Rico is part of America and thus not out of reach of the orange idiot.

Literally. You could be within his reach, literally:

R17 if the move isn't politically motivated then why not stay in the US. Move to a different part of the country with a different environment and climate. What makes you think moving to another country is necessary? There's a great big, varied country outside of the Detroit area.

Have you spent a lot of time in Japan before, OP?

[quote]Unless you can meet the requirements, you can't just move to another country.

Precisely! You just can't decide you're moving to some other country and then magically make it happen. Lots of countries have restrictions and requirements, based on heritage, finances, job skills, etc.

Several years ago, I looked into moving to Italy from the US. I had Italian grandparents, so thought that might make a difference. Turns out it would have, IF they hadn't gotten their American citizenship by such-and-such a date.

Serious question, OP - what makes you think that UK, Japan or Australia want or need you?

Americans are so stupid. They have no idea how difficult it is to move to another country. How expensive, how long the paperwork takes, etc. You also have to prove that you have a specific skill that would help the country you want to move to. It’s extremely difficult unless you marry someone and try entering that way.

[quote]There's a great big, varied country outside of the Detroit area.

I am aware of this r39. Believe it or not, I have ventured outside of the state of Michigan on numerous occasions. America, as a whole, has its own culture. And variations of it permeate the citizenry in each and every state. That is what I want to get away from. The people.

r43 Naw, really?

At no point did I imply, nor claim, that emigrating to another country was "easy." I'm not concerned with the difficulty of the process. I am willing to be put through hell to get out of here if necessary.

Japan is highly xenophobic. I mean, the people are very friendly and pleasant to tourists, but they don't want you there-there for good. There are entire generations of Koreans and Chinese people living in Japan who have still never qualified beyond 2nd-class citizens.

[quote]There are entire generations of Koreans and Chinese people living in Japan who have still never qualified beyond 2nd-class citizens.

There is a very personal historical reason for that. And it's not pleasant.

Palestine OP.

OP if you’re a Republican, please move to North Korea. You’ll love it.

If you’re a Democrat, move to Vermont, which is a separate republic. But the great news is, you can still vote in the election. Vote for Biden from your foreign land of Vermont.

r48 If I found that appealing, I'd just move to Dearborn.

R47, true.

Japan's entire system of social etiquette, of Dos and Donts, of what you can say and to whom, the sheer lack of directness and the beating around the bush -- it all seems [bold] exhausting [/bold] to me. Like you're constantly on eggshells and people are never really saying what they actually mean. But maybe the OP is of Japanese descent or a Japanese linguist/historian and he'll fit right in!

r51 I'd fit in to that social system because I was raised in an extremely strict and limiting home under leadership riddled with a chaotic mixture of passive-aggression and bold militancy. I'm also r47 and have sort of always identified with Japanese culture because of how I was raised (i.e. uptight, a lot of rules, discouraged freedom of thought/expression, and prudence).

R52, good for you, OP! I'd feel like a bull in a China shop.

r53 Well, everything ain't for everybody.

How profound.

So R52, you want to leave the US to move to a country you describe as befitting how you were raised: "extremely strict and limiting home under leadership riddled with a chaotic mixture of passive-aggression and bold militancy," because you "always identified with Japanese culture because of how I was raised (i.e. uptight, a lot of rules, discouraged freedom of thought/expression, and prudence)."

Hmm, the US and its people are unacceptable to you, but THAT kind of environment is? Sounds like North Korea is the place for you!

I like you, OP! Good luck wherever you decide to go.

I personally radically changed my opinion of the US when I was stationed in W. Germany back in the late 70s. I left here a conservative from Amish Country and came back a wild (for the time) liberal. And I've waffled between being annoyed with America and hating it ever since.

Western Europe is like night and day compared to the US. When stationed there, I immediately noticed that the German civilians that worked on-post had a 35-hour work week and later I found out about the one-month vacation. Plus, the train/bus/taxi to literally any damned place you want to go is amazing to me. It's a shame the US didn't put $ into that instead of building the interstates.

But alas, I can't move there -- plus, the only foreign language I can speak at even an elementary level is Spanish, so I plan to go to a Spanish-speaking country. In addition, I am retired and have my SS/pension, and there are any number of Latin American countries that are happy to welcome retired prospective ex-pats. I'm looking at Panama now.

Hey -- did you ever watch the NHK channel? You probably have, but just-in-case... I learned a lot about Japanese culture from watching it. Good luck to you, and I'm wishing for you a great adventure!

You can’t just up and move to the country of your choice, unfortunately.

I’ve never been there, but if you’re over 50 you can move to Thailand on a retirement visa if you keep the equivalent of $20,000 in a Thai bank. You have to renew annually but it doesn’t seem hard to do. If you’ve can park $85,000 you can get permanent residency. You can apparently relatively easily retire to Greece if you meet certain income requirements. I loved visiting there, but I know being a tourist is a whole different thing to actually residing somewhere.

I hate living in the United States given it’s looking like it’s irreversibly going full theocracy. It’s an exhausting and stressful place. I’ve thought about selling the house, cashing in the 401K and traveling the world until the money runs out, then saying goodbye to life. Not that I’d seriously do that.

We'll simply take control, as you disappear...

Can you get Italian citizenship through grandparents? Yes. If your grandfather or grandmother was an Italian citizen or had rights to claim Italian citizenship at the time of your father or mother's birth , you may be entitled to apply for Italian citizenship.

I’ve been waiting for this moment for soooo long… I AM OFFICIALLY AN ITALIAN CITIZEN 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹

I’m so proud of my mother @joangrande and myself for finally securing these Italian passports!! We are now DUAL CITIZENS!!! I love Italy SO MUCH and I can’t wait to dive even further into the culture and my heritage!! What a huge moment for us.. AND to get to share it with my mother… priceless 🥹🥹🥹🥹

I am crying so many happy tears right now ❤️🇮🇹

Ignore r43, OP. People like that pop up in every thread about immigration insisting that it's ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to move to another country, people are so STUPID and everyone should be happy spending their lives down the street from where they grew up.

Newsflash, r43: people move to new countries all the fucking time. Is it easy? No. Do you have to jump through some hoops? Of course. It's something people manage to do. One doesn't have to become a full citizen to stay in a country long-term. The process is easier if OP doesn't plan on working.

Europe is not exactly embracing immigration right now, any more than the masses in the US are. Spain and Portugal have had it with Americans, particularly Californians, moving to their countries and driving up the cost of living.

R61 It isn't impossible but it's way harder than most people think when they say "I'm leaving!" Those who are younger, bilingual and have a college degree and a bit of savings are the most likely to be considered by the other country......and the way our education system is designed, we don't really have many citizens who can have both a college degree and a rich savings account at the same time.

Do you have to speak Italian to move to Italy? I'd rather be eating pasta in Positano, overlooking the Mediterranean, than watching the Project 25 horror unfold over the next 4 years.

R60, was it hard?

I'm trying to help my friend get his. His father is Italian but came to USA when he was in his late teens. His dad is now 80.

I was on the website and they said everything has to be duly legalized. Do you know what that means? And where did you get your documents translated to Italian?

Any tips? How long did it take you?

[quote] I'd fit in to that social system because I was raised in an extremely strict and limiting home under leadership riddled with a chaotic mixture of passive-aggression and bold militancy. I'm also R47 and have sort of always identified with Japanese culture because of how I was raised (i.e. uptight, a lot of rules, discouraged freedom of thought/expression, and prudence).

Omg (Dyatlov). OP IS Christina Crawford!

Lots of places in Italy where you can do the whole buy a house for $1 thing and live there.

But again, not unlike the Orange Fuhrer, these countries all want people who have at least some level of savings/money and an education. They don't want anyone coming to be a drain on their safety net system.

A fiftysomething shopbottom still paying off her credit card and student loans is not at their top of their list.

There's going to be hordes of Americans looking for the exits and a lot of countries saying "Eh, we're stocked up thanks"

If you're fearing end of the world type scenarios, your best chance of survival is Australia.

George Clooney moving to Lake Como for the next 4 years. Must be nice.

Not every move has to be permanent. You can go to Mexico for 6 months as a tourist. Albania for a year (it's developing rapidly and the Mediterranean coast is beautiful). You can pretty much stay indefinitely in Argentina - it's not illegal to overstay, you just pay a rather modest fee when you leave. I stayed 6 months last year and payed like $30 upon leaving, and had no problem coming back. There are digital nomad visas, passive income visas, retirement visas depending on the country. It takes a bit of research, but I've spent about a quarter of my life outside the US, and I am sure I won't return.

[quote] I stayed 6 months last year and payed like $30 upon leaving

They may not let you back in if you can't spell "paid" correctly.

I see a lot of gays moving to Puerto Vallarta. Isn't it easy to buy a place and move there?

Australia is too far away

The last thing I would want to do, personally, is move from one country to another, every few months, like a refugee. And I wouldn't suggest Argentina, which has its own up-and-down political problems.

I just fail to understand how moving away to live in a rigid, inflexible society, with rules about how one must behave, as OP suggests is fine with him, is a better alternative to the US, or what people fear the US is becoming. Sounds like the same thing to me.

OP, there is a vast vast amount of choices to make in the USA , georgia is beautiful country and no snow.

And did you know that Kansas has the world's largest ball of twine?! So many wonders to behold in our own beautiful 50 states! Each one different!

Between the corn pone view of the US as a place no sane person would ever want to leave and the know-it-all/naysayers like R43 who will advise that you can't leave the US, it's too dangerous, no one wants you, they'll throw eggs at your house!, you need a foreign-born grandfather AND $20,000,000 cash AND a highly qualified job in your pocket cash for any country to consider taking you. Nevermind about the coups d'etats, the funny languages, those other immigrants from the wrong continents who will rob and then eat you...

OP has a short short-list with some reasoning behind, and doesn't seem to be looking for a change of scene within the US. OP also seems aware that each country has its own rules and requirements and necessary documentation and costs.

Best of luck OP. My only advice is that the expats I know who are happy in their chosen countries all made the move because they wanted a new way of life, a change of scene, and new challenges. The ones who expatriate first and foremost to escape their old home usually are forever unhappy (exception: people who fled genuinely horrific situations.)

Why’d you pick countries that have right hand drive?

Japan, no question about it

OP, if you are serious about moving to London, you will need a pretty decent amount of cash to initially live on.

Expect to pay at least £1500-2000 per month to rent privately in a decent area. And that’s for a small studio/one bedroom flat.

Oh, and that’s basic rent, not including, gas, electricity, food or council tax.

As a foreigner, I have a hard time imagining most Americans fitting in to other countries. You see it even on DL: you think you're so exceptional any criticism of the country turns you all into angry MAGAs. And if it's bad enough to leave the country, imagine what citizens of foreign countries will have to say over a bottle of wine. I suppose you could make friends with other American expats, who probably have similar reasons for leaving and shared perspectives on what a mess the country has become and how great it was when it was the greatest country on earth, but I really find it to imagine breaking with the mentality you've been indoctrinated with. I honestly can't think of another country that calls itself the greatest on earth.

[quote] It’s extremely difficult unless you marry someone and try entering that way.

That's not a quick way to get into Australia. I have friends whose son married a British citizen a couple of years ago. It's a real marriage, not a green-card one. She got a work visa relatively easily because she had skills that were in demand, but it will be years (and cost them thousands) before she can become a full citizen.

The best way to get into Australia is to have in-demand skills. We're quite short on a long list of those, which is doubtless published on some government website to attract suitable migrants. You'll get a work visa, which you can keep extending if whoever you're working for keeps vouching that you're important to them.

Unless you've got a lot of money behind you, aim for one of the other capitals than Sydney, as real estate is ridiculous in Sydney: expensive to buy and nearly impossible to rent. Avoid Darwin, which is the modern equivalent of Deadwood.

New Zealand is probably the safest place on the planet in terms of its geographic position and uneventful politics, and of course it's incredibly beautiful, but it's really hard to get a well paid job there and real estate is surprisingly expensive.

Thailand. It's hot but you can get a sea side condo for 300K which rivals a 1-2 million dollar home here.

R80, as an American, I have to laugh a little at your own myopism at what you think an American is, what an American thinks, and what ALL Americans are under the skin. First: I know of no American, either liberal or otherwise, who has ever voiced the absurd notion of American exceptrionalism or of the country being the greatest on earth. That is simply not the case. Some probably do, somewhere. Not that I've ever seen or heard. There's too much day-to-day reality with health care and other issues for most people to believe that nonsense.

I know people from other countries like to think of the US, with all its arrogance, as one nation of one kind of American, but it's a population of 333 million and no, we're NOT all alike.

All this chatter about getting a job in a foreign country has me confused. What’s a job? And why do you need to work?

R80 gets the award for Most Condescending Non-American Commenting On What ALL Americans Are Really Like.

You might be better going to Germany. Most people speak English pretty well in the cities and the housing and public services situation is light years better than in the UK or Ireland. Did you mention what job you intend to do, or will you be drifting along on your trust fund?

But if you do go to Germany, go to a big city like Berlin, Hamburg, Cologne or (maybe) Munich. Do not under any circumstances go to a medium-sized town like Karlsruhe, Kassel, or Bonn.

Become a pilgrim like me!!

In fairness to R80, we do get a lot of American exceptionalism on here. I don't know where R83 and R85 have been.

Nobody is suggesting that the US hasn't been an enormously powerful and influential country in the world for at least a hundred years, even if it's starting to slip now. Anyone who suggests Americans are not a diverse bunch, both in terms of ethnicity and geographic and socioeconomic differences, has not been watching American films and TV for a hundred years. Trust us, that much the rest of us are definitely across.

Everyone is to some extent indoctrinated with the culture they grew up in. That's what makes it your culture: it's in your head without your really knowing how it got there. If you never travel outside your culture, though, you don't question it as much as those who do, and I think a lot of Americans seem naive to outsiders in that way.

[quote]As a foreigner, I have a hard time imagining most Americans fitting in to other countries. You see it even on DL: you think you're so exceptional any criticism of the country turns you all into angry MAGAs.

As an American who moved to Europe some years ago, I would agree entirely with that statement, R80. Americans, even ones from whom I would not expect it, can quickly, very quickly turn very fucking prickly and definisive, often doling out insults straight away rather than than simply concurring or offering a different opinion or perspective.

In years of living here I have met very few American expats and those only in passing. I have no friends who are native English speakers, only a few acquaintances who are Brits or Canadians. Its rare to find an American who doesn't offer pronoucements on everything, who, years after moving here, cannot stop comparing every little thing to "back home." They do have a hard time fitting in. I know that there are enclaves of American expats and social groups and people who cooridate group shopping trips to Costco. I know, too, that there is a smaller group who, like me, who could not be happier, who miss nothing at all from the U.S. and would never move back quite apart from any political changes tend to avoid introductions to "another American!." This second group unfairly thinks "oh, damn" when they hear a loud speaking American stranger across the room, taking a prospectively dim view of the prospect and thinking we'd rather not spend an afternoon talking about the U.S., and comparing everything, tit for tat, as if judges awarding points in a dog show. Many Americans and Brits have a hard time letting even a little bit loose of where they are from, such that it prevents them from ever really enjoying where they are.

As for the rest of your remarks, you see from the responses that many Americans don't have a clue what it's like to hear someone make a not wholly flattering generalization about their country and shrug it off and forget it in an instant. But it's always "fighting words" for a lot of Americans, and a bizarre (to me) drive to defend the place from any perceived slight no matter how small.

R87 And for fucks sake, don't go to Bavaria. For all that you may as well have stayed at home in the US

I liked Koblenz, Germany. Beautiful town.

[quote] As for the rest of your remarks, you see from the responses that many Americans don't have a clue what it's like to hear someone make a not wholly flattering generalization about their country and shrug it off and forget it in an instant.

R90, what's not to understand about a 'not wholly flattering generalization"? A generalization is a generalization. You're suggesting having a different opinion or one that's a little more nuanced should not be voiced. I'm an American, and when Dump was elected the first time, I had taken a trip to Scotland, and I was among a group of Swedish tourists. I was devastated by the election, and took great pains to explain that, because I felt it needed to be said that many, many Americans were extremely upset. The Swedes were very glad to hear that from an American.

Condescending generalizations do not define all Americans. Distinctions need to be made and pointed out.

You know a lot of people are doing the digital nomad thing now. I remember a trip to a Balkans where a whole bunch of Americans, Australians, Dutch and others I met were just drifting slowly from place to place staying in very affordable paid accommodation, doing their online teaching, IT, PR, or banking jobs during the day and enjoying a new culture by night. There are worse lives.

Good luck getting to move to Japan, if your not Japanese, they won't take you whitie, you will not fit in, it's the most racist country in the world, stay in your shitty city.

[quote]I grew up in Detroit and spent a lot of time (entire summers) in Windsor and Toronto because I have family there. Canada is nothing special to me and is too close to the US, which I'd like to get as far away from as possible, at this time.

I started to review the application for my Canadian citizen certificate. Both my parents are Canadian but I was born in the U.S. and grew up around Cambridge/Brantford area before moving back to the U.S. after college. Canada changed the rules in 2009 allowing first generation to be Canadian. The problem is both parents have passed away and I don't their birth certificates.

Not sure I even want to move to Canada. My relatives are still there in and around Brantford/Toronto but find it as appealing as moving to a strip mall. The area has gentrified since leaving and I get lost in my home town because farmland has been replace with cookie-cutter homes.

Only wanted to see what options I have in case Trump gets elected and with his Project 2025 turns the U.S. into a dystopia with himself as dictator.

R90, where do you live?

UK is off the table if you don't have a job there, aren't married to a UK citizen, or have direct ancestry.

Go fuck yourselves!!! without the USA, most of your shitty countries wouldn't exist or have anything interesting culturally!

I could go on and on but not gonna waste time. Go move to fucking China or middle east, where they throw you off buildings if you're gay...

Last I read, if you say something bad about the Thai royal family, you're going to jail.

The first amendment is the best thing about the USA. I would never leave.

Ireland is another shitty country, expensive with housing shortage, terrible weather.

R99 must be a parody.

R99 is a parody of a parody. And as parodies go, it's lame.

r95 Just wanted you to know that the one WW you got was an accident. Butterfingers, here.

I think living in Tuscany would be heaven. I can see myself having a life like Diane Lane in Under the Tuscan Sun.

Some of what R75 said may be correct but there's probably two different conversations being had in this thread.....living outside of the US for a lengthy period of time, vs changing one's citizenship.

Will Canada allow for refugee status? It doesn’t seem to be a welcoming country. I might be wrong.

How about everyone just stays in his or her own country for a while? People moving about is causing a lot of problems. Stay home and make your neck of the woods peaceful and prosperous.

Go with Australia. Did you see the movie "On The Beach"? When the nukes fly, at least you may have a few extra weeks of life in Australia while human life on Earth dies off.

R105, are you American--and if so, do you seriously think Americans would qualify as refugees? It would have to become demonstrably worse with a second Dump regime in every way for other countries to start letting in Americans as refugees. People need to get real here.

[quote] at least you may have a few extra weeks of life in Australia while human life on Earth dies off.

In that scenario, are the few extra weeks worth it?

You op are a complete moron

The biggest question I have at the moment is -

if the US overturns Obergfell, will other countries consider those couples to be married, or will they assume that the legal nullification of rights in the US will transfer to other countries?

I've said before so I'll say it again: if you're considering residency here in Canada, fuck off, we're full. Sorry but it's true, eh?

And people make snide remarks about Americans not having a passport, perhaps if you shitty Europeans stayed home, the world would be a better place, you started all the problems in the world today.

Italians brought COVID to Europe, DNA doesn't lie, then they brought it to America, American COVID came from Europe, look it up, just so all those quality Italian clothes could be made in China, like their tomato sauce too. Fuck Europe to hell.

They see something good in each other. Clearly.

Australia is pretty boring, and the men aren't as hot as advertised.

[quote]the men aren't as hot as advertised.

Not a problem.

I know from my own research circa 2000 that Canada would consider letting you in for short stretches of time. I knew Canadian gay men at the time that dated American men and the Americans could stay with them for up to 6 months, then would have to leave for a short time before coming back in....then lather rinse repeat.

As for landed immigrant status (equivalent of a green card) you'd need to either have a job there or have a certain amount of money that would clearly show your ability to care for yourself.

To become a citizen requires high scoring on the point system, with added points if you have an occupation they are seeking in Canada. One of my Canadian friends had a boyfriend (now husband) who had some kind of degree with landscape gardening - sounds fake but no, he wasn't quite a botanist but he had a degree and experience and it was apparently on the list of occupations so he got in easily and they are now married....also I think he now has dual citizenship.

[quote]Italians brought COVID to Europe

You're wrong about that.

Lest anyone that that Americans are all open-minded individuals who value personal freedoms (freedom of ideas and of movement, for example), or think that American gays are some highly cultured subset, with rapier wit and broad perspective, look no further than DL threads on this topic

[quote]Go fuck yourselves!!! without the USA, most of your shitty countries wouldn't exist or have anything interesting culturally!

[quote]How about everyone just stays in his or her own country for a while? People moving about is causing a lot of problems. Stay home and make your neck of the woods peaceful and prosperous.

[quote]perhaps if you shitty Europeans stayed home, the world would be a better place, you started all the problems in the world today.

[quote]Italians brought COVID to Europe, DNA doesn't lie, then they brought it to America, American COVID came from Europe, look it up, just so all those quality Italian clothes could be made in China, like their tomato sauce too. Fuck Europe to hell.

The fantasy of leaving this awful country for those green, green pastures of well, just about anywhere, is indeed fun. But I'll betcha way more than half that do take that step, eventually, if not immediately, regret their move.

What's that famous saying from W. Of Oz? There's no place like home.

The posting history of R99 is very entertaining - its post above isn’t a parody of a stupid parochial American. R99 actually is a stupid parochial American.

As a citizen of one of the countries routinely name checked in one of these “where should I move when Trump wins?” threads, I have to say that the naïveté expressed by so many of you beggars belief.

It may be a difficult concept to grasp but not all countries are lining up and laying out the welcome mat for an influx of Americans who most likely aren’t even in possession of a passport.

I've been thinking about such a move and I believe I have a valid parachute....but I don't think any of the EU countries where I'd be able to live would be eager for me to land in their midst. I'd most likely land in Germany or the Netherlands.

Some EU countries where Instagram types and influencers seem to want to encourage everyone to head to - particularly Spain and Portugal - are actively telling Americans to get fucked and get lost. It's not even remotely as easy as some people make it out to be.

sounds like you are looking for the place you belong. I would choose the UK because if that isn't it you would have easy access to a lot of places. Australia is so far away from everything.Unless, of course, that is where you belong. I would still try the UK first. Have you been to any of the other places? You should know when you get to the one you are looking for.

I know, but imagine moving to San Miguel de Allende only to find . . . everybody else.

Being at peace with a decision to bounce TF on up outta here is one thing, and actually having anything to offer your new community is another. I think you'd be the most welcome where you do the most good.

Australia is quite expensive now. I don't live there but know someone who does.

“Australia is so far away from everything” says R124. Meaning that it’s far away from the USA, presumably.

Ever heard of Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam, Japan, Korea, China? All less than a day’s flight away from Australia. Same as many countries in Western Europe being a similar distance from the east coast of the USA.

the chinese cunts gave us covid!!!

R18 You are wrong, look it up, I'm tired of you triffling shits wanting info, look it up stupid cunt, Italians are consistently travling to china for the fashion, they have China make their shitty clothes and sell it as their own, go eat shit, stupid European. Don't fall for European shit my fellow Americans, they constantly lie.

You’re hilarious, R129!

There’s nothing worse than a triffling shit, is there, R129?

You seem to have wandered over from the British Royal Family threads where you can be relied upon to call people “cunts” - your favourite insult.

[quote]Don't fall for European shit my fellow Americans, they constantly lie

How quaint, yet R131 is so very au courant in his retarditaire Ugly Americanness,

I'm sticking it out in the USA. I'm old and this is my home.

Op move to Russia

R90 has to be one of the smuggest and most condescending posts I have ever read here on DL. Congratulations! It's especially good because it centers around accusing other people of being smug, judgemental and obnoxious.

I haven't wandered in from anywhere, I'm from Louisiana you stupid gays, you just don't like the truth, American COVID came through Europe, not directly from China, triffling bitter old queens. Everything in Italy and the Europe is faked, yet you cunts CONSTANTLY talk shit about Americans. Go fuck yourselve.

I may be a stupid gay, R136, but I’ll be damned if I’ll be called triffling!

R135, perfectly proving R90’s point.

OP, if you're "seriously" considering moving out of the US, you need to seriously consider the reality that it would be impossible for you to move to any of those three countries, short of finagling a job transfer from a multinational corporation with offices there. (That plus the UK & Australia are two of the priciest countries in the world.) And while I'm not searching this entire thread, the fact that the UK now has Labour back in control doesn't change the incalculable amount of havoc wreaked during SIXTEEN YEARS of Tory control. And are you somehow oblivious to the fact that Australia is, like the US, cosmopolitan and multicultural in its larger cities, but has rural areas filled with loads of fucked-in-the-head racist twats?

[quote]Australia is too far away

Sydney to San Francisco is 13 hours. Hardly anything.

Grass is always greener on the other side!!!

They teach you that in your shitty education system, wherever the fuck you're from??

I'd move to Perth or the Gold Coast if I had the money.

Or the Cook Islands

You aren't going anywhere OP. Plus, unless you're a POCcer the aren't going to let you in.

There is so much to unpack with R136’s post: “I’m from Louisiana”, “triffling”, and “the Europe”, but the pièce de résistance has to be “Go fuck yourselve”.

Such erudition, R136! Louisiana must be proud.

What's "POCcer", precious? What's "POCcer"?

I wonder what an option would be for someone eith more practical needs. Like a desire to not go too far, or if you have family to be closer too. I recall on my Facebook feed awhile back I was getting ads for London, Ontario and it looked like a sizable Midwestern city but just over the border from Michigan on the way to Toronto. Anyone have intel on similar places up north?

With not eith*

In North, r146?

Go ahead and move-Trump will allow Putin to take all of Europe and Xi to take over Japan AND Australia. All that packing and unpacking for what? Overseas Deathcamps-enjoy

Not especially bright, are you, R149?

It might be me that R135 hates most, but I will always love him, just a little bit, for this:

[quote][bold]Everything in Italy and the Europe is faked[/bold], yet you cunts CONSTANTLY talk shit about Americans. Go fuck yourselve.

He's just keeping things thin-skinned and real, a lone man with a cause in Opelousas, bravely railing against the faked Italy and the mean monster that is [bold]the Europe[/bold].

And like a cherry on top, he caps it all off with the delightfully batshit Elizabethan flourish of "Go fuck [bold]yourselve[/bold].

You sound depressed, OP. Move abroad for opportunities, for excitement, to experience a different culture or way of life for a while. Don't move abroad to relieve unhappiness and depression. If you're depressed at home, chances are high that you'll be depressed abroad, too.

[quote]That said, Japan is very nationalistic and "Japanese people first" but I feel like every country should be like that to maintain its sovereignty.

Agreed. Just because western elites are massively importing people from cultures with different values that can not be adapted to lower wages and worker's rights (particularly accepting massive immigration of young men, without wives and families, that come from misogynist cultures which logically results with sexual assaults on women) doesn't mean that Japan has to follow the sociopathy of western elites.

in order to lower wages etc*

I am told (by a friend who has lived there for many years) that in Japanese workplaces there is a culture of very, very, very, very long meetings, where only senior people are allowed to speak and which you absolutely cannot fail to attend.

It's hilarious to see how many posters in this thread have lined up to demonstrate exactly what R80 and R90 have posted about.

What about Edinburgh?

Maybe that Nicholas Fairchild creature would find you a place?

Australia is out of the question for the creepy crawlies alone.

R158 I love that clip: “nah, Dad’s scared of snakes”.

I live in that locality and HATE snakes, especially pythons - but you have to deal with the hand that you’re dealt, and they’re really only a problem October to May. They are hopefully hibernating over winter.

r152 Yeah, I am. And this makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

More snake fun in SEQ

Not a bit, R156.

OP, you haven't shared what you do for work but I highly suggest you plan three vacations over the next two years and spend two weeks in the UK, Japan and Australia before uprooting and moving anywhere blindly.

Currently live in Japan. The quality of life is high and services excellent. Every time I am back in the US I am alarmed by what a mess it is. The big worry is whether or not you would feel too isolated due to language/culture barrier/.

R146, Canadian here. London is a small city, primarily a university town. Everything in Canada... it's beautiful in many places but the truth is we're a small country by population... about 40 million... the New York tri-state area is about 20 million. We suffer for our market size, which is to say choice and competition is limited. Target, for example, tried to come here and failed, in part because everybody knew how Target was stocked in the States and that wasn't the store (or the prices) we got. Nordstrom failed, too. We don't really add up to much. It's a nice place to live in many respects but we're just small. I don't know what typical midwestern sized cities are like in comparison, but London would drive me crazy with boredom. I live in Toronto, which I also loathe with the heat of a thousand suns, but at least there's more stuff to do and, best of all, the airport is close!

Also-assuming you are American-it’s really hard to get rid of citizenship. And once you are a permanent resident in Japan you’ll pay taxes for two countries.

Ok is living in his mom's basement and is only dreaming about moving.

He ain't going nowhere!

r163 I work STEM. In the 'T' sector, specifically. My job, provided one stays up to date on certifications, is in demand globally and is one of the few to not be replaced by A.I. for security reasons.

R166 Yes, the financials can be very challenging, especially if you are working overseas - taxes can be a nightmare.

There's also complications around getting a local bank account in another country. The US's requirements for reporting (FACTA) are so onerous that many banks will simply decline to open an account in the local currency for an American.

r169 Interesting. It's almost as if the US wants to make it as difficult and unattractive as possible for Americans to leave.

r164 I feel, and have always felt, isolated here. I'm very quiet, don't have a very loud or boisterous personality (read: I mind my business), and may or may not take myself too seriously. To the vast majority of people I grew up around, and am still around, that's considered weird and boring.

Japanese culture doesn't mesh well with being loud and boisterous. Quite the opposite. And I can communicate in Japanese well enough to survive. I imagine immersing myself would only help me to improve my communication skills because I'd be forced to employ them on a daily basis.

My biggest concern is geological issues with the entire country. Not so much the culture and language.

20 years ago I looked into emigrating to Australia after a short stint with a guy I met in Melbourne (a chemist who was from Turkey himself). There was a point system that graded you by your age and abilities. I remember there was a demand for hairdressers, of all things, at the time. Also, if you're willing to move to rural areas you have a better chance. On the plane back there was an American who was working as a prison guard somewhere in the middle of nowhere. Might as well stay home and hope the fascists don't come for you.

If you're looking for a more reserved culture, then Australia is out, OP. Stick to Japan. Or Germany, Switzerland, Finland. Or move to Maine or Vermont.

I think Japan would be great if you spoke Japanese. They actually have manners there

I worked in Japan for a few years. There's something to be said, in fact a lot to be said, about an extremely formal corporate environment. There's no guessing on what is expected and where you stand.

Oh goodie, another monthly ‘Eat, Pray, Love’ meets ‘Emily in Paris’ meets ‘Ted Lasso’ fantasy thread. I have dual UK-US citizenship and lived most of my adult life in the UK. I’d recommend joining some expat groups on FB or Reddit and get a sense of the pros and cons. Be aware of the people on the extremes and their opinions (living in ‘x’ country is heaven or hell) because the truth is always in the middle. Moving countries is expensive, problematic and stressful, but it is also enlightening and rewarding. I don’t mind meeting Americans here, but I no longer put much effort into it because it’s a revolving door. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve heard say ‘they are here for life’ who are now back in the States. Many people ‘re-pat’ especially when their parents hit a certain age and realise there is no support structure there for them. I’m very happy here, but I cannot predict the future, so never say never.

OP do you have a significant other? My main concerns would be a language barrier, health care and leaving family and friends.

I don’t know your circumstances R171 (please forgive me for not reading the entire thread). It is true Japan has excellent manners. Crossing a street and riding a train are rarely stressful. Bullet train to ski resorts makes winter a pleasure. So much of Asia is in reach. Excellent medical care. I always worry about folks who come to japan and think they are entering the land of the vegetarian…it sounds like you are already familiar enough with japan to know this is not the case. I agree that earthquakes are the one major concern.

The second question the Japanese ask visitors to their country is, “When are you leaving?”

[quote]Just because western elites are massively importing people from cultures with different values that can not be adapted to lower wages and worker's rights (particularly accepting massive immigration of young men, without wives and families, that come from misogynist cultures which logically results with sexual assaults on women) doesn't mean that Japan has to follow the sociopathy of western elites.

How the fuck has no one yet responded to this utterly warped comment? Japan is one of the MOST misogynistic developed countries, not the other way around. It may have "advanced" the matter of women's rights to some degree, but I could say the same thing about Saudi Arabia. This comment suggesting it's in any way "routine" or "normal" for young men to casually go about raping women just for kicks is as deranged as Trump's similar suggestion that the men entering the US via the Mexican border are "rapists and gangbangers."

Further, its refusal to follow the alleged "sociopathy" of "Western elites" has resulted in both an appalling monoculture, and on whole Japan has successfully fucked its own future. Its birth rate peaked 15 years ago, and literally every projection has it continuing to decline indefinitely. Japan entirely dominated the consumer electronics world less than 25 years ago, but that field is now overwhelmingly controlled by South Korea.

Finally, the bullshit whining about the purported "urges" of unmarried young men ignores the painfully basic fact that Japan has BY FAR the most disproportionate number of men to women. In nearly every developed country, the sex ratio is between 1.3 & 1.7. In Japan it's 0.95: it has three million more women than men, which is the primary cause for its low birth rates and steadily growing depopulation. If, say, Japan hadn't permanently alienated Koreans by invading their country and treating them like third-class citizens, they might not be in this mess, but as THE most xenophobic country on Earth, that's what happened nonetheless.

Organized crime plays a much bigger role in everyday life in Japan than in the US. It's "not like that everywhere." It's seen as "atarimae" eg "natural" by the Japanese that they dont even realize it's different elsewhere. Generally the parts of society involved aren't ones foreigners will see up close from behind the scenes (bars, real estate, elections, etc).

Organized crime also helps out in supply distribution and clean up after natural disasters (men indebted to the Yakuza did the dangerous dirty work after the tsunami).

95% of foreign visitors or expats even don't see the way the country is run. But it affects your life anyway.

Korea has organized crime too but it's more of a vassal state of the US. That's bad for Korea and should change, but for the individual American it makes like easier.

[quote]Anyone have intel on similar places up north?

Yes: they're cold as fuck, and Canadians do *not* like the idea of Americans emigrating. Toronto & Vancouver are, quite literally, two of the priciest cities on Earth, and as a direct result even smaller cities like London in Ontario or Kelowna in BC have farcically high housing prices.

[quote]I don’t mind meeting Americans here, but I no longer put much effort into it because it’s a revolving door. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve heard say ‘they are here for life’ who are now back in the States.

You're omitting the not-so-minor detail that many of the Americans leaving the UK are doing so entirely due to the effects of its 16 continuous years of Tory rule, including Brexit. I used to live there, too. I know three Oxford professors (full professors, not 'lecturers') who've left specifically because the working conditions there are so piss-poor for grad students who might only have a £20,000 annual stipend – and good luck finding any variety of housing, even a flat share, for them in Oxfordshire on that income level. A London friend with a child with neurological difficulties moved because the NHS is such a disaster: her son needs MRIs on a regular basis, and she earns a decent living albeit not enough to afford private care, but the waiting list had grown to four MONTHS for it when they left 18 months ago. (Her son needs results within hours, not months.)

The last time I was there myself (December 2022), almost the ENTIRE FUCKING COUNTRY was on strike, or at least those in the employ of the now-collapsed Tory regime that forced their hands. I can deal with a rail strike – and while I was there nearly the entire Tube was shuttered, as were nearly all intercity trains – but when even NICU nurses, caring for some of the most fragile humans on the planet, are compelled to strike, it should be blindingly obvious that shit is MASSIVELY fucked.

I certainly agree that many Americans have a ridiculous view of the UK, expecting something like a "Notting Hill" meet-cute if they relocate, but the British are rather myopic entirely in their own respect. (See, e.g., Brexit, which was an obvious disaster from day one, and which I assume Labour will reverse if at all possible.)

don't go to Japan, who knows when the next big earthquake is gonna be? remember that nuke incident? I don't understand how people can continue to eat seafood or raw fish there. they gonna get cancer in 20 years.

“they gonna get cancer in 20 years” R183?

You sound fucking stupid, R183 - but I’m sure that you’ve heard that before.

R184, you are so fucking smart!!!

Do you really think the Japanese govt is being honest about that fucking nuke disaster? what are they doing with the nuclear waste? I heard a lot of it washed out to rivers and sea during a fucking storm! good luck motherfuckers!

r186 Do you eat seafood? Because if so, I've got some bad news for you. What do you think Japan's biggest and most profitable export is? Hint: it's not anime, but naruto is involved.

R180. Fascinating: I didn't know there were millions more women than men in Japan. Why is that?

I imagine the imbalance of the sex ratio in Japan has something to do with the number of WWII casualties.

No, I don't eat seafood. The seas are too polluted.

[quote]Also-assuming you are American-it’s really hard to get rid of citizenship. And once you are a permanent resident in Japan you’ll pay taxes for two countries.

Not that difficult, R166, but it depends on your situation. If all of your money is in Europe and you have no income stream from the U.S., it's a fairly simple process. (Note that Social Security and similar federal benefits are excluded from consideration; whether a citizen or not, the federal government views it as owed money so there's no dispute and it can be paid by deposit to a bank almost anywhere in the world.)

[quote]To renounce U.S. citizenship, you must voluntarily and with the intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship: 1.)appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer, in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); 2.) sign an oath of renunciation, 3.) pay a $2,350.00 fee.

Also: await State Department approval and then file a final US tax return.

If your net worth American exceeds $2M, you may be subject to an Exit Tax: "under certain conditions, this tax applies if your net worth exceeds $2 million or your average annual net income tax for the past 5 years exceeds a specified threshold. It’s designed to tax the built-up wealth before exiting the US tax system"

For people with fewer assets, close out your accounts, sell any property, and shift your assets outside the US if they are potentially taxable or would require tax reporting).

IT makes sense if your life is fully relocated and you don't have taxable income or assets in the US or any extensive connections or complications with the US. It saves the (somewhat expensive) bother of filing taxes in two countries every year, which is a pain in the ass even though reciprocal treaties mean you will likely pay all of your tax in your country of residence, not the US (unless you spent more than half a year there in any calendar year.)

R269's point about the difficulty in opening a bank account because of the onerous anti-money laundering reporting requirements for American citizens is very much true. It's a stumbling block for many. What everyone thinks should be a simple process...it's not always so.

R183 thinks that “gonna” is a word.

This is a troll thread. Nobody is serious about moving. Wishful thinking and day dreaming only.

For the benefit of all those outraged by the assertion many Americans will struggle to adapt in these countries they imagine are panting for them.

You drama queens ain't goin nowheres. Just stop it. Threatening to move just makes you look like a child.

[quote]“So we can drink water at every possible moment,” Sula explains. [R194 linked article]

It's absolutely the easiest way to spot an American at great distance: the huge bottle of water or large thermos of some liquid, all places, all the time. I think Americans are quite crazy with this need for constant hydration

Excepting maybe asphalt creed, nobody in Europe guzzles down multiple big bottles of water all through the day. And on whole they seem healthier and fitter than the well hydrated Americans

In the U.S. "At least 518,000 people are hospitalized in the United States each year for dehydration. About 10,000 of those who are admitted to the hospital for dehydration each year die there."

And this in a cooler country where 2/3 the population never set s water bottle down for a second it seems.

Tap water is free on most countries in Europe, but you have to ask for it. Most people drink wine or beer of carbonated drinks, and the assumption when asking for water is that you want carbonated or still bottled water.

(And if you want really fast service, you can step into any bar or cafe and say that you want "a glass of water" to take a medication. If the bar is chaos, you will get your tap water immediately.)

How many fucking times does it take for an American to recognize a pattern. Ask for water by the glass if you want free tap water; ask for a bottle of still water or water without gas if that's what you want; ask for a bottle of sparkling water or water with gas if that's your preference, and gesture to show big or small size if bottled You can't fuck It up too badly anywhere in Europe: the same every place, every time.

But no Americans are unhappy travellers unless they get to play "Mine's bigger! Or why are you people not exactly like us?". Every little ducking thing must be compared and contrasted and "that's so weirded." Everything is scorekeeping and ranking. An American is never content to observe that some little thing is a bit different than what they've known, "but now I think I see how it works."

Trash cans are called bins in some places, contenedores, Mülleimers, poubelles, cestinos in another -- it's not the stuff I'd marvel over for a whole trip. There's really no "understanding" of it except for linguists.

Peru or Ecuador might take you. Those are the countries your ilk never wants to go to though.

[quote] your ilk

I'm curious, who do you presume to be 'my ilk' r197?

R144 you mother sold her pussy to sweaty fat Russian trolls, go fuck yourself once again, troll Russian dog fucking cunt.

Put down the pipe, R199.

Or not, you’re nothing if not entertaining!

Don’t triffle with me, R199.

[quote]“I’m from Louisiana”

Ma'am!

I'm Opal Gardner! I've got the blacks voting for me!

Go fuck yourselve, R199. On your way to the Europe.

OP has already stated @ R30 that she is a Black lesbian who's been studying Japanese since she was 16. She is obviously a very bright woman and has given this move a lot of thought.

Some of you dilettantes need to read the thread before you make your rude comments.

In addition (and I find this on DL [italic]all the time[/italic] ), generally speaking, the denizens of DL are not like "the majority of Americans." The majority of DLers are gay, at least somewhat educated, middle (or +) class, liberal, and adventurous enough to have traveled to other countries.

Make no mistake: those of us on DL are in no way representative of stereotypical Americans, and it is truly insulting that many of the posters on this thread assume that we are and that we will do the same stupid things that a stereotypical American would do.

There -- I said it.

That's all they do with the move. Give it a lot of thought.

Hey -- I am telling you right now that if Trump wins, I'm getting the fuck outta here. In 2020, I voted early and flew directly to Cancun to a condo I'd rented for a month, and if Trump had won, I was going to stay there. In Playa del Carmen, they have a CELTA school I planned to attend, and then I could have taught English to students who actually [italic]want[/italic] to learn, as opposed to teaching American Government to lazy American students who think they have nothing left to learn.

Honestly, when you're retired, it's not that difficult.

So the four years that Trump was president how did your life turn to shit?

Trump was just getting his sea legs in his first term -- the second term will be all hands on deck for a mutiny.

The USS America will go down like the Titanic.

BTW, as lousy as you are at trolling, R208, you'll be fighting in Ukraine soon with a bayonet, slimy fatigues, and a potato for dinner.

Do better.

Um shugs, it's not Trump who wants us in the Ukraine. So your life was ruined by what you thought he might do?

Asian countries are socially conservative.

R210? Either you're not too bright or you've had too much vodka already.

Well then just answer. What was so different about your life when Trump was president? N O T H I N G.

[quote]So the four years that Trump was president how did your life turn to shit?

First, you're whatabouting, and second, this is a stupid question in the first place. German life under Hitler wasn't initially terrible, either. That said, what's different due to Trump? Are you unfamiliar with a little thing called the Supreme Court? Even if Trump loses in November, we'll still be persistently fucked by the Court until whatever day Thomas & Alito finally croak.

If women can gain, and then lose, their right to bodily autonomy, surely you aren't dumb enough to assume Trump won't end up going after the gays at some point as well.

so nothing......

except maybe you could afford your gas and groceries. That would be a difference.

UK.

[quote]except maybe you could afford your gas and groceries. That would be a difference.

Are you trying to outdo R208 in the stupidity department? No individual person – not even the leader of the free world – can unilaterally prevent inflation stemming from an astoundingly complex few years, triggered by a global pandemic that disrupted every major supply chain. We would've had inflation even if Trump had won in 2020, and considering Biden's actually done a *good* job getting the economy on track – inflation has eased, as have gas prices – this question's even dumber still. There is zero chance we'd be in a better position had Trump won: his buddy Vlad would've likely conquered Ukraine and moved on to Eastern Europe by now, and if you don't see how that scenario is exponentially worse than ANY stupid bullshit relative to gas or grocery prices, you should either STFU or just admit that you're either a Trumpist and/or a troll.

But if the inflation happened while Trump was in office you'd be screaming like a stuck pig. His buddy Vlad had four years to do something when he was in office. He didn't.

[quote] Asian countries are socially conservative.

Thailand and Taiwan are very gay friendly.

The Netherlands (even with the recently installed far-right government and attendant backlash against expats and the tax privileges they enjoy) is still relatively welcoming to Americans (in any case, it's a lot easier for Americans to settle in the Netherlands than the other way around). The two countries have a deal, and especially if you're young(ish) and formally educated, with high earning potential, you will have a relatively easy time moving here. Some people in this country are, in fact, already anticipating a new wave of US immigration following a potential Trump victory.

yeah sure. millions leaving. just like last time.

Do it and shut the fuck up!!

There are consistently around 5 million Americans living outside the U.S. (including military personnel). Obviously, not all people leaving the U.S. over the next year will be motivated exclusively by an actual or potential Trump victory, but it could be an extra incentive for those who were considering leaving anyway.

Even a few hundred thousand spread across Europe's major cities are already very noticeable.

Say hi to Whoopi

I’m feeling very hopeless right now…I hope that it passes…

You'd probably feel hopeless with or without Trump.

r205 Thank you. I do so enjoy your posts on here, in general. Always informative. Especially since I don't have too many elder lesbians in my social calendar to consult about lesbian-specific things. I just wing it in life most of the time.

Also, to answer your question earlier, yes I used to watch NHK all of the time. It really helped to keep my Japanese skills up since there is almost zero opportunity to use it where I am. People really don't seem to realize who effective immersion is, so that was another major reason I considered Japan. I can't get the channel anymore, though, sadly. :(

Taiwan? Land of natural disasters.

OP, Why don’t you just tie up your yacht in Monaco? It’s top drawer. Really top drawer.

I wouldn't live there on a permanent basis but I was in Taiwan for almost a month. It's such a lively, despite everything, optimistic, youthful place. It's a great time.

[quote]But if the inflation happened while Trump was in office you'd be screaming like a stuck pig.

No, actually I wouldn't. I don't blame Biden for inflation, so why the fuck would I blame Trump? You missed my point entirely: NO ONE can singlehandedly change or end inflation. (And Trump would have a laundry list of further blameworthy crimes.)

[quote]Thailand and Taiwan are very gay friendly.

True, but Thailand's also the most pedo-friendly country on Earth, and has girls *and* boys as young as 12 openly peddling their wares. Despite the country ostensibly being run via a military junta, this QAnon-look-wet-dream situation is simply "overlooked." If I leave the US, I'm not going somewhere even *more* fucked up than here.

Just look up the white places. As much as you shout about Trump being racist you aren't going to relocate anywhere in Africa, South America, Latin America, or Asia.

If you’re rich the USA is the best country in which to live.

Hilarious R234!

r233 You didn't read the entire thread, did you?

I am serious. America loves rich people.

Everywhere loves rich people.

I’d suggest the UK, Caroline. I don’t recall that any Presidents have career-assigned you to live in any but the latter two destinations so far, no?

R231, until the invasion from China happens.

I have French citizenship, so I can always retire somewhere in the EU.

R240, if Trump wins, the invasion by China will likely be bloodless. Trump cares not at all for our allies, and he only cares about his personal pocketbook (see, e.g., Ukraine). So the Chinese will make some move that makes him some money, and he'll give up Taiwan in a heartbeat. Without the US to lead, Taiwan will have no defenders, and China will just take over.

LOL R242 is nuts.

R243, you don’t think Trump will sell out our allies in a second?