What's with all the later in life lesbians/late bloomers lesbians, lately?

OP? WTF do you care?

And you source of this observation?

The was a huge sale at Cane-n-Able, and the rest is herstory.

R2 my eyes

What about the flipside, OP, when older lesbians become was-bians or has-bians? I know a couple of those - one even got married to a guy!

Women treat women better than men do. If sex is no longer a priority, why wouldn't you be with a woman if you're a woman?

There's a reddit sub called late bloomer lesbians with 100k members. late bloomer gay bros has 2k members

If I understand where they’re coming from, it’s because men suck. They’re okay to look at but that’s it.

I've also observed this, OP.

Hasn't it been a thing for a long time already? Meredith Baxter-Birney, Cynthia Nixon, Anne Hehe...

[Quote] OP?

Who’s this lesbian who joined us recently who starts every post the same way? With either OP question mark or your R followed by a question mark.

R6 Because most women aren't attracted to women in any shape or for? Also, what do you mean by "If sex is no longer a priority"? Like sex with men is any good. Lesbian sex lasts for hours, unlike straight one, lesbians have orgasms a lot more compared to straight women, women understand women's bodies way better. So

R10: Anne Hehe?

R5 Those numbers are insignificant compared to all the married women coming out in recent years. There's more fakebians or lesbians until graduation among early - mid twenties confused women. The older ones that come out a gay rarely ever go back to men.

“One question: How do you guys do it without any equipment?”

Urban Dictionary using hasbian in a sentence: "She's a hasbian. She used to be a lesbian but now she's back on solids."

[quote] Women treat women better than men do.

I'm laughing so hard I can't stop.

[quote] If sex is no longer a priority, why wouldn't you be with a woman if you're a woman?

Maybe they want kids. Men also generally have more money and like to spend it.

R16 Aka lesbian until graduations. Those are confused young women in their 20s

As a lesbian, I've never understood how any woman can have an emotional connection with a man. Men and women are so different. I listen to my straight women friends bitch about their husbands and can't help but think how sad it is that this is what they settle for. In my experience, lesbian relationships are more equal. Most mature women know how to take care of themselves and men do not. Women understand emotions better than men and we understand women's bodies better. I can have sex with a woman for hours and orgasm multiple times whereas a man just sticks it in, rubs it around, cums and falls asleep. Women are more creative with sex (we have to be).

I know there are asshole lesbians out there who try to emulate men, but those are not the ones I date. If a woman tells me she's into watching sports or dresses like a dude, I'm out. I don't date butch women, women who are covered with tattoos, or women who don't know what conditioner is.

It's likely why I'm single, but I'm happy being single...unlike many uhaul lesbians. I think straight women settle for fucked up men and then realize that they are spending their lives playing mommy to man children. I feel bad for them and totally understand why women would be late bloomers when it comes to falling for a woman.

R20 wow you’re single? Surprising…

Because men are demonstrably horrible at sexually satisfying women, OP. Once they go muff, they can't get enough. It's really that simple.

Oh r21, it's ok. You and your nose ring can charm some other lesbo.

[quote]I've never understood how any woman can have an emotional connection with a man.

r20 They can't, actually. Men are emotionally retarded. There is a reason women initiate the majority of divorces. Once they have kids, they start to resent him and their only concern is raising their children. Their husbands become dead weight and a liability always pestering them for sex that 80% of the time is unsatisfying.

The late bloomer lesbians at least have options (women). Straight women will divorce their husbands and are more likely to choose to die alone compared to men who remarry because they can't stand not having a live-in maid and sex slave.

[quote] Women treat women better than men do.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

r17 and r25 Care to provide examples of how men treat women better than other women? Because I'm not seeing the lie.

R20 I am queer as a football bat but you and I would probably get along - and I agree with you, I look at most straight women in relationships and find it mystifying what they've signed up for, and stay with...if he's making a lot of money, that's one thing, otherwise why?

And the straight men I know are the opposite, so many of them complain at work or in the locker room or wherever about how their wife is busting their balls and breaking their back by just having simple human expectations of give and take in the relationship in regard to the children they've created and the household they've chosen to occupy. That's why the men get treated like overgrown children needing to be brought into line, because they are. Money can solve some of it: I don't see this happening in the relationships where the straight couple has the money for a yard care service, a housekeeper, and a nanny.

R27 What does queer mean? Are you gay or not?

"Queer" could mean anything, r28. The poster could be a heterosexual man who identifies as a lesbian. Or he could be a straight woman with an edgy, short haircut.

"Queer" means nothing. No one can ever define it. It shouldn't even be part of our community.

To be more specific R29, I'm a limp-wristed, lateral-lisping, terrible at traditionally masculine tasks, practicing homosexual! Though I think I've got the hang of it by now...

I use "queer" not in some PC way but more as a word that has commonality for gays and lesbians. Both groups, I think, have a little bit of kinship of experience/overlap in terms of the way mainstream society views us and treats us. And I lived through the worst of the AIDS era, when our lesbian sisters truly answered the call and took on some of the heavy lifting when gay male friends were getting sick and dying at an alarming rate. So we should be nice to each other.

And hey, the D has been a source of extreme pleasure and extreme pain in my life. If those late-blooming lezbos can give it up altogether and truly be happy, more power to 'em. It makes straight guys crazy when they see women who absolutely and unequivocally100% DO NOT NEED THEM FOR ANYTHING.

Guys know what gender they like as soon as they can get boners

they forgot to do it in their early 30s.

r37, just use "gay." That word encompasses both lesbians and gay men far better than the slur "Queer."

R31, we lesbians are happy with "gay" being used as a commonality for gay men and women. "Queer" implies a whole bunch of other things that have nothing to do with homosexuality and are in fact an attempt to undermine homosexuality.

Well, I consider myself politely schooled, which is one of the things I've counted on DL to do for (gasp!) 20+ years. Thanks, all at R28-35.

R4, aren’t you special! I see no change in my some 50 years as an adult.

If you've been on DL for 20+ years r36 then you'd be aware that "queer" is not what we were calling ourselves back then.

As for my observation as a life-long lesbian as to why there are "so many" late bloomer lesbians, I assume it's because in their 20s and 30s these women - who are probably bisexual more than lesbian - were aiming to have children, a family, a husband, all the trappings. For many women who have enough attraction to men not to fully comprehend their attraction to women too, meeting a decent guy, settling down, having kids was the goal. Once they'd done that and the marriage had run its course (as many marriages do) they found the opportunity to explore this other side to them that they'd previously tried to ignore.

R39 But why isn't there not even remotely the same amount of late bloomer gay men?

R20 Isn't domestic violence high in lesbian couples?

I don't know, r41. I've never encountered that but that's probably because I don't date the butches.

Simple- as women age, their estrogen levels drop. Sometimes their testosterone levels- by contrast- appear to be higher or equal to their estrogen. These shifts can greatly impact your drives and what/who you feel attracted to.

R40, I suspect that bisexual men figure out that they're attracted to men more easily than bisexual women work out that they're attracted to women. For women, the drive for family and kids might be stronger than it is for men, especially as there is a cut-off date as to when they can have kids, so it's more of an imperative for women to get that out of the way first.

The other factor could also be that women are more into relationships. So, a divorced woman in her 40s is more willing to start a relationship with another woman than a divorced man in his 40s, who may be content just with sexual encounters.

r44 Women are also socialized that we're not supposed to like sex and to view men as, one-note, hypersexual oafs that we must "tolerate" in order to have the families we want. Boys are socialized to want sex 24/7, 365. So, it's very easy for a girl to confuse sexual disinterest in boys as "normal." Depending on the upbringing, female sexuality is even discouraged by parents and/or guardians.

I remember very clearly telling my super religious folks when I was around 12 or 13 that I didn't like boys (my exact words) and they basically encouraged that and told me to "stay that way." I guess in their minds they were just relieved they wouldn't have to worry about me "being fast" and going out and getting pregnant.

I was always praised by my family for being "such a nice and decent girl" because I showed no interest in boys and could, thus, remain abstinent instead of committing such a "horrible sin" as engaging in premarital sex. They, lowkey, cheered on my lesbianism. I love bringing this up to them whenever I'm feeling especially petty.

Darling, R45, it isn’t socialization, it’s nature.

Socialized into wanting 24/7 sex WITH WOMEN ONLY. That’s the socialization part, right?

I think part of this is that women are cultured to take care of others' needs first from an early age. You take care of your siblings, often parent your parents, ease their way about your choices, want them to accept you, keep in your mind's frame "what would they think" and what it would do to them if you came out, took a chance, etc. Women until recent decades, were not culturally taught it was ok to want sex or like it, or demand sexual satisfaction from a partner - straight (especially) or gay or bi. You are an "other", you are a servant. (culturally). This is how I was raised. I have a brother and his needs or wants in the household and my mom's and dad's always, always came before mine. I was expected to settle, to give in, to make do, to understand, to acquiesce. And I did. I few friends knew I had bi tendencies in my 20s and I acted on it then, but rarely. Now I'm married to a man, over 20 years but if I had to do it again, would I? He's great in a lot of ways but not as a romantic partner, not since the few first years of our relationship before we got married. After we got married, it became all about him-- in life and in the bedroom. But the pet peeve of it all is in life. I'm still bi, but if I were suddenly single now I'd go for women probably, exclusively. I still find men hot and attractive and like their bodies but their jerkdom mostly turns me off, and the pickings at my age aren't many.

Women are not just cultured to take care of other. Look in the animal kingdom. Reduced to their minimum common denominator, men are essentially drones who work and breed the females to create more babies. Of course, human evolution and intelligence mask all of this and by no means should we be limited to this very basic principle.

R42 You think only butch women can be aggressive. Some butches are the most gentle people. And feminine women can be extremely aggressive. So I don't get your point.

[quote]Look in the animal kingdom. Reduced to their minimum common denominator, men are essentially drones who work and breed the females to create more babies.

We don't do that here.

Oh for chrissakes, OP, there's *lots* of later in life gay men.

R52 Not really. That number is insignificant compared to later in life lesbians

Is it a contest??

[quote]if I were suddenly single now I'd go for women probably, exclusively.

r48 I don't blame you. I'm not a goldstar and I thank the heavens constantly that I never signed on any dotted line and went on and married a man.

In my experience, they are emotionally dead inside sex bots. And the one I'm talking about was actually bisexual, ffs. You would think he wouldn't have fallen victim to gender stereotypes, but he was still very emotionally retarded and only capable of communicating (poorly) his feelings with his penis. He was also very mentally unstable (bipolar) and closeted to everyone else but me which was a very chaotic nightmare cocktail of crazy.

If I wasn't a lesbian before, the bullshit he put me through made damn sure I'd never touch a man with a 10-foot pole again if for no other reason than personal safety and peace.

R20 we could be twins. Don't give up, you'll find a wonderful woman when you least expect it. Do you ever feel that straight married women are flirting with you? It happens to me a few times a year in social settings after they've had a couple cocktails- I ignore because I am in a committed relationship but the gorgeous sweet ones make me smile. I think many of them have always had feelings for woman but no idea how to go about it. For myself, I didn't realize until I met my wife and reflected back on my childhood. The prettiest girls in school were my friends but I wasn't in the "popular" group. I had one on one friendships with the prettiest and the unattractive popular girls weren't as nice so I ignored them. I'm so thankful I realized my sexuality before I landed a rich husband and bred....that was every girls plan where I grew up.

All ugly

R56 How can you not know you are attracted to women?

This thread is only one of the reasons She Who Shall Not Be Named should bring back the DL Lesbian section.

Just a thought.

Scissoring is a huge fad nowadays. Some older menz love doing it.

R58, it’s very common for straight women to have lesbian fantasies, whether they ever act on it is another matter. Regardless, most women can find another women beautiful and attractive in a way that has nothing to do with sex. I’d say far fewer men feel that way.

I think the difference between late bloomer lesbians and late bloomer gay men is this. The women who come out later in life give up the trappings of heterosexual life. They divorce their husbands. They may live with and sometimes marry the women they fall in love with.

Sure, some men who come out later on may follow a similar trajectory. But I think there are many more older gay men who stay in their hetero marriages and just satisfy their need for dick on the side (via Grindr, sex venues, etc.). Sometimes this happens with the knowledge/consent of their wives; sometimes it’s kept totally secret.

Older women who realize they prefer women have much less interest and much less incentive and often many fewer resources to maintain this sort of subterfuge.

Plus, I think many of those late bloomer lesbians genuinely were not aware earlier in life of their potential desire for women. Whereas many of the so-called late bloomer gay men actually had very early sexual experiences with men, but either repressed those urges (generally unsuccessfully) or kept it secret for years and just gradually became more open as - for example - they got divorced from their wives or became empty nesters.

I’m convinced that the number of men who are into sex with men FAR exceeds the number of men who openly acknowledge being gay/queer/whatever. I think that’s much less true on the women’s side.

(I’ve met - and had sex with - scores of such men.)

[quote] I’m convinced that the number of men who are into sex with men FAR exceeds the number of men who openly acknowledge being gay/queer/whatever. I think that’s much less true on the women’s side.

Almost everyone knows that women are far more likely to be bisexual, but sure, whatever you say.

R63, bisexual is a term one identifies as, it can have varying meaning. Example, a two times married to men woman I know who identifies as lesbian and is in a ten year relationship with another woman. She didn't "become" a lesbian at age 40, she says she was always a lesbian regardless of who she used to have sex with. Another 40+ year old defines herself as "bisexual" because she had a college boyfriend twenty years ago. Some of you seem to feel rejected when a woman doesn't feel the same was toward men as you do. Please.

R58, my understanding of gay men & women was homophobic. I thought gays really wanted to be the opposite sex- all lesbians were butch and wanted to be men/all gays were effeminate and wanted to be women. Just like a religious asshole thinks today. The most simplistic homophobia, unfortunately. I do remember thinking if I was Kristen's boyfriend I would treat her better but I was a girl and I'm supposed to be with a boy so I never thought it possible. I remember being afraid of lesbians. In my 20s a cute friend of a friend kissed me on the lips at a new years eve party and I felt an electric shock. It was mind blowing and I never felt anything like that kissing a guy. But I didn't dwell because I never imagined the possibility that I was a lesbian. I remember my eye always catching bubble butt girls walking across campus but my thoughts weren't lustful more of wow, she has an awesome bootie! I was in a sorority, I was a fashionista and wore make up so there's no way I was a lesbian. Its comical but I realized at the right time for me.

Old lady clam slam is my jam!

[Quote]Boys are socialized to want sex 24/7, 365.

Really? Got news for you, toots, as someone who's actually BEEN a boy: no.

R65, are you 75 years old?

The reason why many women don't realize they're lesbian or bisexual until later in life is because women usually require an emotional connection to another woman in order to have a sexual relationship with her. They need to fall in love. Once that happens, then they want sex with the woman they love. This takes more time than having an erection.

I could have sex with plenty of women but I don't because I need the romance first. I need the talking for hours and getting to know her. The flirting, the wining and dining. I want to be intellectually and emotionally attracted to this woman and then make passionate love with her. Not just, you make me cum and I make you cum. I want it to be meaningful. This takes a lot of time but it's worth it. This is why lesbians don't have hundreds or thousands of sexual partners like gay men do.

It's also why some women realize they're attracted to women when they're 40 because they never had the chance to fall in love with a woman before. For women, it's not just about looking at another woman and getting a clit boner. If a woman was married and had kids, that's what she was focused on. When the kids are older, she might fall in love with her best friend or a lesbian she meets at a party. The opportunity never presented itself before.

Having said all of that, I was attracted to girls and women in kindergarten. I was MADLY in love with my first grade teacher and would spend all of my allowance money on buying her gifts. She thought I was cute. Everyone is different I guess.

[quote]women usually require an emotional connection to another woman in order to have a sexual relationship with her.

HA! You're slipping, R69. If I waited to have an emotional connection first, I'd still be a virgin. That comes AFTER.

Yes, everyone is different.

R70 That's why I wrote "many women" and not "all women."

That's why I wrote "usually" and not "always."

That's why I wrote "everyone is different I guess" and not "we're all the same."

Can you read? How am I slipping?

Not USUALLY. Never usually.

r65 I was VERY similar to you. Had crushes on girls since around age 7 but, having grown up in a strict, religious household by the time I figure out I was a lesbian at age 21, I was already homophobic. I had two "boyfriends" one in high school that lasted a week and grossed me out every time he kissed me and then after high school I met a guy at a community college class that should have just been a friend but I forced it to be more. We're still friends to this day and he said he had a feeling I was gay because I was doing stuff in the relationship that a man should do...lol. He's actually a funny guy. But it wasn't until I met my first girlfriend at 21 and kissed her that I finally had that "OOOOOOH, so THIS is what all the fuss is about!" thought.

Of course, I went back and forth for awhile, telling myself I wasn't gay I was just in love with her. My mom didn't speak to me for 2 years after I came out, telling me that I was being selfish because "God wanted me to marry a man and have children." It was a different time in those days. I'm 54.

[quote]Almost everyone knows

R63? That sounds almost as good as "people are saying."

You might want to at least post a link to back up your vague assertion.

Listen to your fave Anne Murray records and flick your bean

For women, menopause can trigger hormonal changes that make us more inclined to same-sex attraction, if not full-blown lesbianism. Also your mindset changes, such that conformity and social conventions matter a lot less. Throw in the accumulated exasperations with men over the years, and you may well find some scissoring going on!

R76 are you one of those gay males who knows nothing about females except for your mother? Sounds like it.

{quote]That sounds almost as good as "people are saying."

Like Donald J Trump perhaps?

That's exactly what I meant, R77, but, but I didn't realize I would have to hit anyone on the head with a 2x4 for them to "get it."

Thanks for making that clear.

R12, I mean if you're sexually attracted to men but want a more meaningful, caring relationship.

I'm an older woman, and I don't understand where your reaction is coming from. I was being serious.

^ Directed to R77

Men and women discover they aren’t vey compatible later in life. Women are really insufferable. straights realize it’s impossible to get along with them unless they are in charge otherwise nobody is going to be happy. We have to watch our straight friends go through this. It’s such a painful thing observe.

This thread is begging to be read by Kaitlan Collins.

[quote]Men and women discover they aren’t very compatible later in life. Women are really insufferable.

Ah, but R81, you're completely missing the point of the entire thread. We're talking about [italic]women[/italic] leaving [italic]men[/italic].

Men don't leave "their"women unless they have a side piece. Most straight men can't even conceive of living without a woman to take care of them. Women, OTOH, leave their husbands behind like a sack of dirty laundry. They're better off without the extra weight, especially now that they can make a decent living without a man. For most women, leaving the care and feeding of their men behind is like shrugging off a dead weight.

But R81? Do carry on.

Sorry -- I meant to direct that to R82.

R84 is right. In addition, some older straight women start to find other women physically desirable. This might be due to menopausal hormone changes; I don't know, but I'm guessing hormones play a role. In any case, it startles me to be put in a Trump basket because I mention something like this.

R61 That's has nothing to do with what I aked. I asked how come a lesbian woman wouldn't know she is gay untill she meets her first girlfriend. And those straight women don't marry women. So why do all these later in life lesbians marry men.

R64 Why wouldn't she be bi? Just because her last boyfriend was 20 years ago doesn't mean she's attracted to men still. You don't have to date bot sexes at the same time to be bi. Plus, her attraction to women might be a lot stronger. Bisexuality isn't always 50:50

R74 Not the person you are replying to, but that info van be easily found. Just Google any research on the theme of percentage of gay people. All those researches and polls show that gay men sometimes outnumber lesbians, sometimes it shows that there's about equal amount of gay men and women, but the percentage of bi women ALWAYS outnumbers the percentage of bi men. And gay men and lesbians of course. In some researches the percentage of bi women is bigger than hey men, lesbians and bi men combined.

R86 "some older straight women start to find other women physically desirable"

No they don't. If they do, they are not straight.

R88, it’s about self identification.

Women are emotionally promiscuous.

R91 Okay. Still, why wouldn't a bi person that hasn't been with the opposite sex for 20+ years, be bi and still attracted to the opposite sex? Are all bi people in decades long straight marriages actually straight? Are all bi people in decades long gay marriages actually gay?

R87 Because she hasn't kissed a woman yet or made love to a woman yet. I know a woman who discovered she was gay when she was 40 years old during a New Years Eve party in 1990. A woman accidentally kissed her on the mouth and that was it. She had been married twice, had children but was constantly in therapy because she didn't know why she wasn't happy with men and why she didn't like sex.

Some older women will tell you that back in the day they used to tell women that romantic feelings towards other women were just a normal part of "special friendships", so they didn't mean anything. Society has always downplayed same-sex female attraction. Therefore, many women figure out later in life that those special feelings they had for women all along were more than friendship feelings.

[quote] the percentage of bi women ALWAYS outnumbers the percentage of bi men.

r89 Because bi men lie about being bi a lot more than women do. The nutcase I mentioned dealing with at r55 presented to the rest of the world as "100%" straight and only came out to me because I told him, after we first met (as friends), that I think I might be a lesbian but wasn't sure. I was only with him because he agreed to be my "experiment." Unfortunately, I guess it was his other personality who agreed to that considering how extremely insecure he was about our sex life, because...bruh:

Him: Oh, you think you might be gay or just haven't figured out what you like sexually and want to experiment? Sure, I don't mind being your guinea pig. ;)

A few months later...

Also him: WHY AREN'T YOU ENJOYING THIS??? (*threatens self-harm*)

----

Good times.

R93, why are you so overly concerned with these definitions?

[quote] Care to provide examples of how men treat women better than other women?

R26 No, because none of use can make that kind of assertion. How stupid is it to make an umbrella statement that women treat women better than men treat women or the reverse or any such other combination?

r97 It's not stupid if it's supported by statistics, though. Lesbians have more orgasms than straight women in straight relationships. Lesbians have lower divorce rates than straight couples. Women are happier being single than married compared to men who are happier being married than single. All of this is indicative of women being the least happy when they are with men.

A logical conclusion to draw from this is that men don't treat women as well as other women when they're in relationships with them. And anecdotally I, myself, can vouch for this. Men are horrible in relationships with women. They are awful in bed and emotionally neglectful. Men treat each other better, even straight men treat their other male buddies better, which is why gay males have the lowest divorce rates.

[quote]A woman accidentally kissed her

How does one accidentally kiss you? And with such meaning that you realise you're a lesbian?

WHY ARE THESE KIND OF THREADS ON A GAY WEBSITE???

My very catholic mother is a weirdo, the only lesbo porn I found was under neath her bed. I think she is ashamed of it lol

From what I have observed in my 55 years on the planet, women do indeed treat women better than men treat women. I grew up with a whining, asshole of a father who threw things in anger when my mom wouldn't fuck him on demand. He would leave for days on end and not return. Then when that marriage ended, my mom married an alcoholic who constantly told her she was stupid, demanded she do all the cleaning and was always gambling away their money. Mom was no picnic either, but she was also a victim of domestic abuse.

I've watched my straight female friends hook up with one asshole after another. One was married to a guy who wanted her to fuck other women even though she's not gay and when they divorced, he got violent. Another was married to a guy who was a demanding asshole and when they divorced he fought over shit like the kitchen spatula. Another was with a guy who cheated on her and later found another guy who, after they hooked up, told her he was married and had kids. Another was with a guy who was great...until they married and then he became abusive, refused to speak english to her and demanded she learn Spanish and hit her. Another was with a guy who cheated on her but she stayed with him because some women are dumb.

Of the lesbians I know in relationships, only one couple I know of had issues where the one spouse cheated on the other. They divorced but remained friend for their 5 kids (ugh, please stop breeding). In general, all the domestic instances we see on the news are usually from straight husbands killing or beating their wives/girlfriends, etc. Sure every so often you'll get a story about a lesbian couple having domestic abuse but it's really rare compared to how often straights do it. I read some stats on this that said that something like 85% of domestic violence victims are women enduring this from men. So yeah, plenty of evidence that men are worse than women in every way when it comes to how they treat people.

R102, these guys are thinking of the catty female stereotype.

r102 Maybe it's just me, but when the sexes are the same, I have a hard time seeing that as domestic abuse. Especially since usually, both parties are hitting each other. To me, that's just a fight. If my partner hits me, I'm just going to hit her ass back and at that point, we're just two females throwing hands.

However, when I got choked out by a man, let's just say I had a lot of difficulty getting him to let me go because he was a lot stronger and bigger than me. Thankfully, he was "kind enough" to throw me from the moving vehicle we were in at the time and drove off instead of murdering me. Again, good times.

R98 You sound like a straight woman who has had bad relationships with men and now thinks all men are horrible. In my family, all the men are very kind and my aunts and cousins seem very happy with them. Your experience doesn't apply to everyone or even most people. And as a lesbian myself, I've seen some very dysfunctional and violent lesbian relationships just like I've seen great ones. The men you were with were assholes and emotionally retarded. Fine. There are plenty of women who are like that too. Stop generalizing.

So you have to kiss a person to know that you are attracted to that sex? Sorry, that's a lot of BS. That might be true on the 1950s, maybe even in 1990, where your story takes places. But in 21st century? Come on. You don't have to kiss someone to know what attracts you. Now that gay couples are in the media all the time, with out gay celebrities etc. how would you not ask yourself at least once if you are gay. Especially if you are not attracted to men, hate having sex with your husband etc

^For R94

R102 Well, lesbians make about 1% of the population, so obviously the most of the abused women are going to be abused by men

Aged beef always tastes better!

Didn't I block this thread?

R106. Many of the women who are late in life lesbians had to kiss a woman or have sex with a woman in order to realize they were attracted to women. This does not apply to all or most women who are gay. It certainly never applied to me. I knew I was attracted to women long before I ever touched one. But some women learn to ignore their feelings or to think that feelings for women are simply part of friendships or they were told that a woman's role is in the kitchen. These women may later on realize that they are attracted to women when they have to opportunity to explore their sexuality because their kids are gone and they're divorced. I know ONE woman who discovered she was gay at age 40 when a woman kissed her. And I do know some women who needed to be intimate with other women in order to realize what they really wanted. That's that. Everyone is different.

How is one accidentally kissed by another woman, r111? Was the kisser heading for her straw and accidentally planted her mouth on the woman standing next to her?

Even to be in the situation where you are kissed or - especially - having sex with another woman means you're already aware on some level that you're attracted to women.

R112 You never accidentally kissed one of your aunts on the lips on New Year's Eve? I have.

She was at an office party on New Year's Eve 1990. When the ball dropped and everyone was kissing everyone, she was accidentally kissed on the lips by one of her female co-workers. She said it was like being struck by lightening. The co-worker wasn't gay. She then started dating women and has been with the same woman since 1993.

Ok, 113, but it sounded initially as though it was a romantic kiss.

R111 Yeah, I don't believe them. They are bi, not gay in my eyes. How can you be a grown up person in 21st century and only thing that makes you realize you are gay is kissing another person of the same sex? That's some 15 year old bullshit or something straight out of 1950s.

My mother talked about Merv Griffin and Phil Donahue being latent homosexuals, neither were very latent, they where gay when they were born.

She never said anything about a latent lesbian, they fly under the radar I guess, even though our neighbor was a big farm lesbian from South Dakota with a little Mexican husband. She used to help my dad skin squirrels in the backyard.

R73 I'm sorry your mom didn't talk to you for 2 years. I was terrified of that. I let my mom get to know my gf as my bestie and she loved her more than any of my other friends. When our relationship came out she said she couldn't talk to us but came around after a week and apologized and said if you have to be this way I'm glad you're with her...better than nothing. As the years have gone by she refers to her as another daughter. Guys always told me I was intimidating. If I was making out and he was getting feisty I would give a little push to go down on me. My guy friends had always joked about doing that to girls and guiding their head down for a blowie when they were making out with so I switched it up for my pleasure but it was never as good as the first time with my wife. Guys don't understand how girls are raised. Tomboy girls fight with their mothers about having to wear dresses. We succumbed to peer pressure when to start wearing make up & carrying purse. I was born in the 70s and there were no gay role models for me to identify with. My wife realized she was a lesbian after some born again former lesbian/drug addict/prostitute gave a speech at her Southern Baptist Church when she was 6. And she thought she was like that lady and was horrified and tried to pray her gay away. For me it was Sharon Stone and Madonna movies in the 90s that made me think I should try out a woman before I find my husband. I'm glad I did. I always had the expectation that when I found the right guy that 1st kiss would be like magical fireworks and I never felt that until I kissed a woman. Kids today have grown up with lots of out gay people. So today things are better for little gay kids but I'm sure it's still hard without supportive adults in their lives.

"You don't have to kiss someone to know what attracts you."

Women are very different than men. I had what I now refer to as "crushes" on girls my entire childhood but I was raised so religiously that I never put a sexual meaning to them. I just figured I was normal and that every girl felt like I did about their friends. I thought I was supposed to be straight, so that's where my head would go. My friends around me were all boy crazy and I would pretend I was too, but I had zero feelings for boys other than I wanted to play baseball with them because they were better players than girl were. I was interested in things like Star Wars, major league baseball, playing with my brothers' toys instead of dolls, etc. I distinctly remember my parents expressing concern once because I liked boy things and playing rough and tumble and my grandmother defending me by saying, "She's just a tomboy like I was!" If I was growing up in today's world, I probably would have been told I was trans and I count my blessings every day that I grew up when trans was not a fad. I'm just a normal lesbian.

And yes, it wasn't until I kissed a woman for the very first time after having kissed several boys that I felt that "electric shock" that the poster upthread mentioned. Boys were gross to me. Always have been but I was raised so religiously sheltered that I didn't even know what a "lesbian" was until I was in high school and I was terrified of being thought of as one. Times were different then but there are still a LOT of people who are raised in religious households who grow up homophobic...until they realize they are gay. I imagine most late in life lesbians have had fleeting feelings for women but are able to explain those feelings away...until they meet a woman they fall in love with. I had a friend like this. She was dating men when I met her but was so obviously gay that I pointed it out to her and she would get mad. But then she met a woman and fell in love and now she is an out and proud lesbian. Usually there is a catalyst that happens. Women are not as sexually motivated as men (some are, but it's rarer). Most women are not really in touch with their sexual side and this is true even in lesbian relationships which is annoying as fuck. I can't tell you the number of lesbians I meet who say they saw a porn once where women were scissoring or fucking the other girl by rubbing their nipples on the other girl's clit and they say, "Lesbians don't do that!" when in fact, some of us do and it's awesome. I'm so tired of meeting pillow princesses who just want to lay there and let me do all the work but mostly that's because women don't understand that sex can be so much more than just penetration. It's why my past lovers always try to come back...creativity in sex is something women don't realize they can have. It's sad.

[quote]They are bi, not gay in my eyes

Why do you think anyone cares about what's in your eyes?

Per her Wikipedia, late-in-life Julia Fox also claims to have bipolar disorder, obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD), and attention deficit hyperactive disorder (ADHD). She also says she is autistic. (Well, she would, wouldn't she? as Mandy Rice-Davies might say).

R118 I wish we were friends in real life! Our experiences are so similar and I really love reading your posts. I tried all the toys the first year but like you said, female bodies together is just ahhhhmazing! Soft, smooth and delicious. For the boys it's like 2 otters having sex which I don't think happens much! My wife had many experiences with women that didn't reciprocate. Not with me tho...She tells me I'm the best lover she's ever had and I believe her!

R119 Why so you think anyone cares about how they identify? They are and always be bisexuals. They are making a mockery of actually lesbians and yet, you are defending them

R118 "Women are very different than men." No, they aren't!!! They are some smole differences, but still. Man and women are humans. Female humans are a lot more similar to make humans then they are to female bonobos (out closest relatives). I hate when some says that, "Women are very different than men". Some women are. Some women are a lot close in the way they think to a typical male. Some men are a lot closer to typical women when it comes to the way of thinking, passion about certain things...out of billions of creatures on this planet, human males and females are the closest to each other. To an alien observing us, we would be practically the same thing. So no, "Women aren't very different than men." They are somewhat different. Somewhat doesn't translate to very different

R7, that's the inverse of gay bars/spaces. There are like 100 gay bars for men for every lesbian bar (do any remain?)

R118 of course had to take potshots at trans people and pretend kids are being forced to be trans, which of course isn't happening

Oh fuck off, r125.

I have 125 blocked but read it by clicking the link above...I would have been another confused lesbian kid if born today and all I heard was if you are a girl and like boy stuff you must be a boy. Open your eyes, it's the most simplistic form of gay conversion therapy today. Children should never be taught homophobic gender roles equate to being the wrong sex.

Ralf Schumacher, Michael Schumacher's brother and a former racing driver himself, is a late bloomer gay, after marrying a woman and having kids. He also has a partner, so there are examples of men who are late-in-life gays too.

[quote] For the boys it's like 2 otters having sex which I don't think happens much!

Why wouldn't it happen much? Men have multiple apps expressly for the purpose of finding no strings attached man-on-man sex.

Do women utilize anything even remotely similar to such extent?

R127, the only conversion therapy is the one you conservative push to try to make gay kids straight. No one was ever forced to be trans.

[quote]Of course had to take potshots at trans people and pretend kids are being forced to be trans, which of course isn't happening

No, but gender *is* being pushed in schools on impressionable children, in subtle and not-so-subtle ways.

I never said kids were being forced to be anything, you dolt. I simply said that in today's world, someone would have told me that because I liked things that were meant for boys, I was trans. This is absolutely happening today and I still stand by my statement that I'm glad I was never told that. I love being a woman who loves women.

Straight men are usually pigs. It’s like one more child to take care of.

Of course women turn to other women when they’re older. If they want to call that lesbianism - so be it.

Not surprising and not all that interesting.

Late in life gay men on the other hand 😈

Say more….

R131 thinks acknowledging that LGBT people exist means "gender" is being "pushed" on "impressionable kids"

Your fellow conservatives said the same thing about books, shows, and movies with gay characters

Why is gender identity being taught in kindergarten and elementary school? Who is promoting this? Does it make children more tolerant in the long run? Is all progress necessarily good? What do drag queens have to offer small children? Is something that is fun, entertaining, and perfectly fine in one context automatically also okay in another? You don't have to be a conservative (I grew up in, and still live in, one of the world's most progressive countries) to ask these questions.

Anyway, no need to derail this thread. Back to late-in-life lesbianism.

R133, your premises makes it seem like being gay is a choice?

Maybe it is for women and they can choose whatever little label it is that they want? I don't know any men with such fickle, optional sexual orientation.

Maybe it is a choice, r136. It's a better choice than choosing to be straight. We all have choices and we're free to love whoever we want.

For the record, I don't think it's a choice but even IF it was, it's a great choice!

R135, kids in elementary school can question their gender identity....so I'm not sure why we can't have books for those kids. They may also have parents, siblings, etc. who are trans

Do you think it's wrong for books to be aimed at gay kids? Or kids with gay family members?

Why do you think drag queens are a threat to kids? Homophobia? Brain-washing from Libsof TikTok

You claim you live in a progressive country, but you didn't say you were progressive yourself. You didn't say what country you're from. That's weird, because you use a lot of the same talking points as American conservatives

R137, so maybe it's a choice for women?

Women certainly seem very fickle, adopting and shedding sexual orientation labels like it's a latest fashion trend.

That certainly doesn't help those of us who a) were born this way and b). receive flak from homophobes/religious who claim being gay is a choice.

Let those homophobes think what they want. Again, if it's a choice, who cares? We are all free to choose and my comeback to those that say it's a choice is, "So you're saying you are attracted to both men and women and choose to be with one or the other?" That always stops them in their tracks. If you believe it's a choice that means everyone has that choice, right?

They never know how to respond to that one.

[quote] Again, if it's a choice, who cares?

Being gay is not a choice. Are you a woman?

[quote] In my family, all the men are very kind and my aunts and cousins seem very happy with them.

r105 Well, that's your family and experiences. Oh, happy day. Good for you. Cookie?

That's not my family and that's not been my experience. I was never attracted to men nor was I ever fond of males. My experiences with them merely exacerbated an opinion that I already had about them which is that the vast majority of them are terrible to and for women. I have not been exposed to, and this is not an exaggeration, one positive example of a male in my life and yes that includes my male family members. They're all incredibly misogynistic and/or violent. That's what I grew up around, that's what I saw and continue to see. Women are better off when men leave us alone. If I had my way, every male on this planet would be 100% so we wouldn't have to put up with them and their shit.

^ 100% gay

[quote]"So you're saying you are attracted to both men and women and choose to be with one or the other?"

Isn't it almost always about the person, though? They have the capacity to fall in love, and enter into relationships, with both. That's actually a pretty pure, noble thing, when you think about it. I wouldn't say that I envy it but I certainly don't have that potential.

R143, a gay man? Woman?

r145 I was correcting myself. I meant to type:

[quote]If I had my way, every male on this planet would be [bold]100% gay[/bold] so we wouldn't have to put up with them and their shit.

[quote] Women are better off when men leave us alone.

That's fine. I hope you have plans for an all-female world that involves female construction workers, engineers, roadwork, delivery drivers, people who lift heavy things in general, soldiers, etc.

But somehow I don't foresee that world of women doing heavy lifting ever materializing for some reason?

Is there Manosphere/DL overlap?

I'm definitely some of those stupid young bitches from Reddit (and their unrealistic opinions on gender) on this thread.

R142: I'm sorry you had such negative experiences with men and that this has made you so wary. Do you have *any* close male friends?

R151, you're speaking to Andrea Dworkin's little niece. Why she thinks Datalounge (mainly gay men) is a place to spew her misandry is beyond me? Like we're going to agree with her about hating men. Ha

r147 You're reading something completely different than what I actually said. I was obviously referring to men bothering us for sexual reasons. I wasn't talking about everyday, mundane, tasks/activities.

R153, so you don't want to socialize with men, but you want them to do labor for you?

Even Dworkin married a man (twice).

[quote]Do you have *any* close male friends?

No.

r152 I only despise men insofar as they are sexually attracted to and pursue women for sexual purposes. I have no problem with men outside of that. Thus, obviously, I have no issues with gay men or men who have the decency to "go their own way" and leave us alone outside of what is absolutely necessary.

r154 ^^^^

R156 there are gay men out there who wish fraus would go away, not be seen or heard and just leave the men to us. Leave us alone here. You go over there

r158 You're talking about something entirely different. Once again, for the reading comprehension difficulties that you clearly have, I don't have an issue with men as long as they are not trying to sexually pursue us or referring to and treating women as no more than sexual objects. They are fine, to me, up until that point.

Gay men just happen to not be a problem in that area for obvious reasons. That does not mean that I like "all gay men" automatically. Their lack of sexual attraction for women just makes me less likely to be immediately wary for my personal safety. By all means, list the number of gay men that have raped or sexually assaulted women.

I think more closeted gay/bi men are willing to take it to the grave with them...vs. closeted women. And perhaps more women are inclined to eventually embrace sexuality fluidity openly vs men.

Maybe it’s because their hearing deteriorates and they can tolerate boring lesbian yammering more easily because they miss half of it.

I have had a lot of good male role models in my life but that's mostly because I was into band and music and martial arts. The men who taught me taekwondo were good men with wives and beautiful families. I respected my high school marching band teacher immensely. In fact, all these men are still in my life and therefore, I know that there are some good men out there that are not assholes. They are rare, but they do exist and I'm honored to have known them.

R138, there's no such thing as "gender identity", it's made-up bullshit. People are either male or female. Thinking you are the opposite sex is a psychological condition with external causes.

R142, you shouldn't extrapolate from the asshole men in your family to all the men in the world.

r164 I'm mainly extrapolating from the males in my environment outside of my family. But, again, my only gripe with men is when they're sexually attracted to women. They become predatory animals with no respect for boundaries.

That's not at all true, r165.

r166 It is. Males are predators/hunters. Females are their prey. Something about propagating the species and bloodline survival or some shit. Some are more subtle with their approach but the end goal is the same; sex. Men aren't that complicated.

R167, I, a lesbian, observe men in my life every day and they're not all as you describe at all.

2-1? 3-1? Gay men over lesbians? This is what happens when people don’t get a proper education and don’t know how to look up easy to find data and just make up stupid shit.

According to Gallup 7.2% of Americans identify as other than straight. GLBTQI++++ Most of those over half identify as bi. The gay men and lesbians are pretty close in % or numbers.

But in the youngest group the GenZ gay and lesbians still are fairly close in numbers but are both running behind those that identify as trans or bi.

30 years from if the trends continue finding a strictly gay man will be as easy as finding a tobacco smoker

r169 And I, also a lesbian, observed men in my life every day and they were all exactly as I described. So, now what? Does this back and forth even make sense?

If someone who was bit by a big dog as a kid now fears big dogs as an adult and avoids them, do you think any amount of you telling them not all big dogs will bite you will matter? Do you think they'll care or change their minds?

My opinions on this matter have zero effect on you, so I'm not sure why you even give a damn, honestly.

Then why exactly are you here, R170?

Did you get lost on the way to L Chat or r/lesbians?

r170 was actually meant for r168.

Anyway, how about you worry about you, r171?

What you're saying then, r170, is that every day, every straight man you see is being sexually aggressive towards women.

Not all dogs bite humans. If someone is scared of dogs because of a personal experience then that is an individual situation that should not be extrapolated to all dogs.

Sure, we should be careful around strange men and strange dogs to protect ourselves from the one that might be bad, but that doesn't mean they're all bad.

There is no r/lesbians, r171. All "lesbian" subreddits have to accept heterosexual males who identify as lesbians. Those men we definitely need to protect ourselves from.

[quote]What you're saying then, [R170], is that every day, every straight man you see is being sexually aggressive towards women.

I am not saying that at all, actually, r173. I'm saying they have the capacity to do so and are, thus, perceived as a threat around who I should, and do, exercise extreme caution.

[quote]Not all dogs bite humans.

Put it this way. In the matter of being potential sexual aggressors/dangerous, to me, straight and bi men are pit bulls while gay men are Pomeranians. Do with that what you will.

R98 When I was a young lesbian and went to lesbian bars, I was constantly sexually harassed by butch lesbians. You think only men can be aggressive? Wrong!

Pomeranians? From a lesbians view point.

Fluffy sweet dogs that royalty had back in-the day because while not doing anything useful these cute dogs looked sweet cuddly and tender and a threat to absolutely no one.

Well played

My goodness, that escalated quickly.

This thread seems to attract women with inaccurate, distorted generalizations about "all" men.

I think it's just one, r179. Stop generalising!

[quote]I was constantly sexually harassed by butch lesbians.

r176 Interesting that it was specifically butch lesbians. It's almost as if a lot of them tend to emulate the most toxic traits of stereotypical masculinity; something that comes naturally to the vast majority of males. /s

Also, no one claimed that all lesbians treat women better all the time. The argument has been, and still is, that women, on average, treat other women better in relationships than men do. And there are stats to back up this argument.

I honestly don't know why a lesbian and supposed gay men feel a need to defend the "honor" of straight and bi men with regards to how they treat women when the stats absolutely are not on their side. Couple that with the anecdotes mentioned in this thread, and I'm not sure I'm understanding what any of you are trying to accomplish, here. It's giving pick-me.

We're not defending anyone's honour, r181, just pointing out that your comments are hyperbolic.

I've said nothing hyperbolic, r182. Unfair? Sure. But hardly hyperbolic. All of my concerns can be backed up with actual crime data. Going back to the pit bull analogy, while it's not fair for people to write them all off as dangerous, it's understandable.

Crime statistics show that 100% of heterosexual men are sexually abusive to women?

r184 Now who's being hyperbolic with a dash of straw man?

R181 Since you're into statistics, why don't you look at the statistics concerning domestic violence in lesbian relationships. Care to explain why domestic violence is so high in lesbian relationships?

You know, since women treat women so much better than men do...

r186 I'm aware of it. This is going to sound horrible, but I personally can't take that shit seriously. As I stated above, that's just two women throwing hands, to me. Same with two men. It's just a fight. You may have an argument when we started getting into "weight class matches" but other than that I'm not stressing over "windmill arm battles."

And for the dudes, lol...

Most lesbian and bi women have been abused by men. Lesbian relationships don’t have the highest rates of violence, they have the highest number of survivors.

What a depressing thread. Are lesbians ever fun?

I'm fun! I do fun stuff all the time and have a lot of friends I've known over 40 years. I'm a catch!

R187 What do your two stupid videos have to do with DOMESTIC violence? Women often end up hospitalized or dead when beaten by a male or female partner.

R128 How do you know he's gay and not bi?

Maybe he's bi, r193, saying gay is just a form of shorthand for "in a gay relationship". The thread subject is about late bloomer lesbians, so I just flipped it to late bloomer gays. His friend Carmen Geiss posted a picture of her, Ralf and his partner and wrote that "Heute hat er sich zu seiner Homosexualität bekannt" (Today he confessed his homosexuality).

In any case, he's in a gay relationship. Is it ok to say that? Gotta love how your first reaction to Ralf telling the world that he's in a relationship with a man is to jump up and say "but he could still be into women!"

A lot of watch reruns of Kate & Allie during their down time.

“just when you think… “

[quote]thinks acknowledging that LGBT people exist means "gender" is being "pushed" on "impressionable kids". Your fellow conservatives said the same thing about books, shows, and movies with gay characters

Irrespective of your personal political leanings, you can argue about what is the "right" age to first discuss the complexities of gender in class, even in simplified, childlike language. Is it 5? 7? Or 10 and older?

Not going along with every progressive idea does not necessarily make someone a social conservative. A lot of it is just plain common sense. I'm tired of ideas being part of packages of ideas, and if you don't subscribe to every single idea in the package, you cannot rightly consider yourself progressive.

"Drag Queen Story Hour," for example, has been discussed to death (often by all the wrong people), but the question of whether drag appearances for very young kids are organized primarily with the children's interests and enjoyment in mind, or to serve some other interest (e.g., parents and/or institutions wanting to seem open-minded and enlightened) is one worth asking. I've never heard satisfying answers to these questions: "What do drag queens have to offer small children?" What do toddlers get out of it"?. You can love and admire the creativity of drag culture and greatly enjoy drag performances in the right context and still ask these questions.

Sorry to derail.

r192 Question posed to ChatGPT: How often are women hospitalized or killed when beaten up by a female partner compared to those who are beaten up by a male partner?

The response:

The statistics on intimate partner violence (IPV) can be complex, as they vary based on the source, country, and the specific metrics used. However, general trends from available research indicate the following:

Prevalence and Severity of IPV by Gender of Perpetrator: Women are more likely to be injured, require medical attention, and be hospitalized when the perpetrator is male compared to when the perpetrator is female. Studies have consistently shown that male-perpetrated IPV results in more severe physical outcomes, including higher rates of hospitalization and fatality.

Hospitalization and Fatality Rates: According to data from the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey (NISVS) in the United States, women experiencing IPV from male partners report higher rates of severe physical violence and subsequent medical treatment than those with female partners. Women with male partners are significantly more likely to experience life-threatening forms of violence, such as strangulation and assaults with a weapon.

Specific Statistics: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reports that approximately 1 in 4 women have experienced severe physical violence by an intimate partner during their lifetime. The severity and medical consequences of these incidents are higher when the perpetrator is male. Data from the CDC indicates that intimate partner homicides are predominantly perpetrated by male partners. Over 90% of female victims of homicide involving an intimate partner are killed by male partners.

Comparative Analysis: A study by the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence (NCADV) highlights that women are about 70 times more likely to be murdered in the weeks after leaving an abusive male partner than at any other time in the relationship. Women in same-sex relationships report lower rates of severe physical violence requiring hospitalization compared to those in opposite-sex relationships.

While the precise statistics can vary, the overarching trend is that IPV involving male perpetrators tends to result in more severe physical outcomes, including hospitalization and death, compared to IPV involving female perpetrators.

Would you like more specific data or details on a particular aspect of IPV?

-------

Well...would you? I can ask it if that is the case.

R194 That's not my first reaction to him coming out, that's my first reaction to him being mentioned by you here. When someone was married to the opposite sex for so long, it's not wrong to assume they are bi when they gay with the same sex

"According to the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence and the Williams Institute of Law:"

[quote] Around 44% of lesbian and 61% of bisexual women have experienced forms of rape and physical violence by an intimate partner as compared to 35% of straight women.

So many dusty, ignored snatches

But are they actually getting any or are they in practical terms celibate?

Right, r199 but that doesn't say if the violence was from men or women. Lesbians, especially those late bloomer like we are talking about might have been with men prior to coming out and for certain bisexual women have been with male partners.

Whatever you say.

R202 But why would the number of lesbians (prior to coming out) and bisexual women that experienced violence by men be so much higher that straight women. It makes no sense, since most lesbians didn't had any kind of a relationship with men, unlike straight women where almost all had at least one relationship with a man. If that violence is indeed by men, it makes it sound like those lesbians "became lesbians" because they experienced so much violence by their male partners