AGATHA ALL ALONG trailer

I'd have probably been excited for this about 3 years ago but Wandavision was so long ago at this point it kind of feels like the time for it has passed. Also they've really got Joe Locke queening it up.

Watching now...

Very faithful to The Killing.

I take it all episodes will be plays on famous TV shows/series?

I don't want Wanda to be dead.

R2 While I don't think she will make an appearance (maybe only in flashbacks), she's definitely not dead. Not only is it preposterous to think she actually died, but Kevin Feige and Elizabeth Olsen themselves have clarified that it's unknown if she's dead and they purposely highlight the red explosion right before she "died." If she does make an appearance, it would most likely be a post credit tease of her return at the end of the show.

Disney didn't spend millions of dollars to get the rights to Marvel characters like the Scarlett Witch to then permanently "kill" them and not use them in movies

I don't like Hahn. She annoys me.

Hahn is hilarious in this. Her going back and forth with LuPone is funny.

Debra Jo Rupp is stealing the show, though.

"I'm sorry. Am I supposed to know the words to this song?"

Katherine Hahn is terrible in this. As someone who always enjoyed a lot of her previous work, this WandaVision stuff is such a disappointment. So much overacting. It’s all so obvious. Worst thing that ever happened to an otherwise terrific actress. I hope they’re paying her well.

Why can't she hear Teen's backstory?

I enjoyed the first two episodes a lot. Didn't really buy Hahn's Mare character – the yelling was obnoxious – but she's fabulous as Agatha. Her facial expressions when they were singing show she's not afraid of the way she looks on camera, which I love. She just commits 100%.

I was afraid each episode was going to be a different show like Wandavision, so I was relieved to see that wasn't the case and she "awoke" to herself relatively quickly.

Locke is enjoyable as well. His American accent is decent, although his "can" still sounds British.

Aubrey Plaza's witch outfit was all sorts of badass.

r8 She couldn't hear his name either. There's either a spell/hex on him or on her.

Teen's name and backstory will be revealed later as he will be a much bigger connected character in the MCU

Garbage.

Ugh.

he is WICCAN

I thought WandaVision was majorly overrated, so I'll be skipping this. It should have been released two years ago, anyway, when Agatha was a little more fresh in people's minds.

This one has little relation to Wandavision, which I didn't enjoy all that much either. It's a lot more fun, not as self-serious.

Has Patti shown up yet in the episodes?

Yes, she shows up in the second episode already, she's great.

Patti & Hahn are amazing

Ok start. I have no preconceptions with this as it’s not a Marvel story I know so I’m keen to see it develop.

Who do we think was the fifth name that Patti wrote down? Was it the teen? Is Debra Jo Rupp the right witch to represent ‘black heart’ considering Aubrey Plaza made a point of stating she has a black heart in an earlier scene?

r19 i don’t see DJR as an antagonist

If I were any witch out of this bunch, I would totally be the Green Witch, the kooky flora queen that I am. You can keep your flashy powers, I'll be right here making my rhododendrons the envy of the town with my magic green thumb, thank you very much.

Aubrey Plaza is the green witch.

Agatha is purple.

Wanda was scarlet.

Strange and quite possibly Emma Caulfield's character are yellow.

I thought Debra Jo Rupp was the green witch? Because she was shown gardening?

I don't think Debra Jo is a witch at all.

Aubrey already identified herself as green to Agatha, who responded with, "Just let me get my purple going..."

Debra Jo Rupp is a national icon

I love her character's gentle confusion. I hope she ends up being pivotal to the plot, to show that raw power isn't everything in life.

The actress did a good job with the character of Agatha but that was enough for me. I didn't start watching Wandavision because I am a hardcore Marvel fan - I found it well written and heartfelt. I never got drawn into the Marvel franchise, I got bored with it after Iron Man 2 and never started any of the Avengers films. I'm not a fan of witch stuff and I have zero desire to watch this series.

And yet, here you are r27 You really should find other ways to waste your life

elderfags are the worst self loathing folks here

80%

cope & seethe freaks

it’s a hit

I wasn’t sure what to expect, but I really enjoyed those first two episodes. I pretty much loathe Marvel movies, but some of the series have been pretty good. Moon Knight, She-Hulk, and Ms. Marvel were entertaining.

r32 no one except elderfags & far-right trolls hates the show

it is just gonna go up from here on

he & Kit might have fucked in Soho

spent an awful lot of time together

Please let's not turn this thread into yet another Kit/Locke fan thread, there are so many of those on DL already. I was put off from commenting on the second season of Heartstopper because there wasn't a single thread dedicated to just the show. I wouldn't like that to happen to the Agatha show as well because I love it and I want to discuss it with others as the episodes come out. Thank you.

r37 no one’s stopping you. go ahead

Don't be disingenuous, you know exactly what the threads for the second season of Heartstopper looked like thanks to Locke obsessives. I was just politely asking to not have a repeat of that here after seeing the wholly unrelated posts at r35 and r36, that's all.

Anyway, looking forward to the new episode today, feels like it's been weeks since the last one for some reason. Shame it wasn't dropped all at once.

The phrase “One of those boys from that one show!“ needs to be the title of a thread.

It’s the “Eppi-tomb” of Data Lounge television viewing statements.

Everyone will know who you’re discussing.

[quote]Shame it wasn't dropped all at once.

That's actually terrible for shows. They get discussed for a weekend and then the world moves on. Week to week allows it to really permeate the culture. Even Netflix has started walking away from doing everything all at once.

Did they really have to kill off the best character?

I'm guessing we'll be seeing a death each week.

Mephisto got a shout out.

Yes, we have the perfect number of leads to kill one off per week to have a solo Agatha 9th episode

r43 this week’s episode basically confirms he is Wiccan

They killed her off because she’s not a witch. Agatha refused to ask Aubrey Plaza’s character along as the green thumb witch even though her name was on the bit of paper from Patti’s character.

Id bet anything the Heartstopper kid is gonna be the Viz ScarWitch son come back.

I'm thinking they might be playing us and he's Agatha's child.

r46 he is definitely Wiccan

The comic's Wiccan has such a fucked up backstory that they may still incorporate some Agatha's son reincarnation aspects into Teen on the show, but agree once it's all sorted out, he'll be playing Wiccan going forward in the MCU

This is so entertaining! But why did they kill off Sharon, I thought all witches of the coven had to survive in order for this whole Witches' Road thing to work? So she wasn't a witch? Why was she brought along, then? Because her name appeared on that list? Maybe she'll be revived in the next episode.

I got mildly spoiled regarding Teen's possible identity while listening to the breakdown of the premiere on The Watch podcast. I don't mind though, I see they're going exactly into that direction pretty quickly and I like it. The way she said "NO!" when he was about to drink his wine was a dead giveaway.

Funko spoils it all....

Don't click if you don't want to know who Plaza and Locke are really playing....

doing well

it is a limited series so the number need not be too high anyway. just the reception to characters is important

excited for the next episode

guessing mostly everyone knows Aubrey’s character now

concept art for his character leaked looks dope

This feels like Teen is orchestrating the entire trip like a dungeon master.

I’m wondering what happens when four witches drink the blood of a demon.

r57 what are the chances he is Mephisto ?

for the sane gays who love Joe

new episode rocked

looks fantastic

I'm gonna be honest, the fact that 10 minutes of the show is credits is kind of a turnoff.

Yeah, why ARE the credits so long? Especially because it's apparently the cheapest Marvel show yet.

[quote]What also helps Marvel is that Agatha is the studio’s least expensive live-action series to date, significantly so. Marvel Television has recalibrated its shows and that may now be paying off.

r63 the practical effects are good

If they don't bring back Ms. Hart it will be a real shame.

This show is such a delight! I want so much more of this, even though I can clearly see it's all shot on a sound stage (hence the low costs). But I'm not bothered by that at all because the writing and the interactions between all these actors bring me such joy.

Was surprised by Plaza's revelation at the end, they'd been telegraphing his real identity for so long, it felt nice having the rug pulled underneath me. I wonder if she was telling the truth though, or just trying to protect Agatha.

I realised in this episode that the end credits are so long because there's no opening intro, so we get a twofer at the end.

r66 what Marvel needs to realise is that they need to spend more on writing. they are already doing a great job on casting

I find the structure of facing a new trial every episode to be too formulaic, and the trials themselves have been unimaginative. The cast is really saving this show so far.

stellar performance by Joe

Agatha seems less... Agatha like somehow.

Having it set on a sound stage is giving me Yellow Brick Road vibes. It’s great.

r72 she may be in mourning

It may be Marvel's cheapest project yet, but clearly they needed a huge old school set design, costume, effects crews to pull this off. Thus the long credits. Good to see many non-FX crew get jobs from this.

Agather All Allong

*Along, even

[quote]This is so entertaining! But why did they kill off Sharon, I thought all witches of the coven had to survive in order for this whole Witches' Road thing to work? So she wasn't a witch? Why was she brought along, then? Because her name appeared on that list? Maybe she'll be revived in the next episode.

The show said there are people who are "magical enough."

Sharon was "magical enough" as a "green witch" to help them open the road or it wouldn't have worked.

While she's been "replaced" for now I'm sure she'll be back somehow.

Agatha's thing is pretending like she doesn't care when she does actually care about others. She cares about "Teen." She also says she thought the work Jenn was doing was important so she never went after her. She did say to Sharon's corpse (when no one was listening), "I didn't think you had it in you." So she did care about her since she dragged her into this (or she knows something about her we don't.) She also wasn't wrong about Wanda in WandaVision.

Either way, I'm convinced Sharon will be back either as a wish someone makes at the end of the road or by some other means.

R76, you’re not allowed to be so wise regarding Agatha this soon into the adventure. For now, she’s a cunt just like us. Please note her coat fits deliciously.

r77 not everyone is as dumb as you. move on

I keep seeing Jen Barkley and April together

[quote]I wonder if she was telling the truth though, or just trying to protect Agatha.

If Lady Death killed Agatha’s son because it was her job, then she was just reminding Agatha that her son is dead and so can’t be Teen.

r80 yeah we know he is Wiccan

how long until his identity is revealed ?

the trial thing is getting a bit repetitive

The show seems to be good only every other episode, Agatha was way more fun on WandaVision.

omg love the crown

Joe Locke is officially Billy Maximoff / Wiccan

That Wiccan reveal was iconic!

r87 people are making insane theories about him being a villain but i actually want him to be a little bit crazy like his mom

R88 Yeah. For a kid to wield that much power ( I know in the comics he’s just as powerful as his mom) , that’s going to get into your head a little . I’m sure Billy will make some irrational decisions until he masters his temperament and powers.

r89 good chance we might see him go mad with power

To be fair Wanda was severely traumatized by the war and the Soul Stone, and in the comics, the literal God of evil was trying to take her over, Wiccan thankfully doesn't have those issues.

r91 Billy would be too. his mom died

This series is a disaster for direction. The writing is weak and the director(s)? are not compensating. The pacing and blocking and editing, all stodgy and clumsy. Were they TOLD to act this way or are they just randomly "acting" to get the gig over with? Nobody is coming off well and I like several of the actors.

r93 some of them are being underused

This show has been quite good and the acting great. Not sure what r93 is on about.

R95 I suppose if you are a 11 year old girl. The line deliveries, reaction shot acting, and the pacing/cutting is so leaden. plod plod plod plod plod plod plod. Everything is telescoped like a saturday serial for children,. Is this a children's series?

[quote]Billy would be too. his mom died

We don't know how much he actually knows about that. In the end, she offed herself.

Wanda lost both her parents in a bombing, then the soul stone corrupted her, losing Pietro hurt her, losing Vision drove her insane, losing the twins kept that going and then the Darkhold made it permanent. Billy should be relatively well adjusted in comparison.

He cared about Agatha until she killed Alice (by semi-accident) and he even picked up on that Agatha may not be as bad as people made her out to be.

r97 i am confused why Agatha had a change of heart. they are trying to make her Loki-esque arc but we already had that with Loki sp why again ?

Agatha reaffirmed her true colors when she outed Billy and accused him of being as bad as his mom. She's been intending to kill the rest of the coven and take their power all along, and she was keeping Billy in her back pocket as a possible advantage.

She may have miscalculated, though, because outing Billy seems to have broken the sigil on him and revealed his true self and power. I suspect the only thing that will save her is that Aubrey Plaza's character is still on the road and also has powers of her own.

I think when the go through the mud it's the road ejecting them and they'll find themselves back in Westview. Then they'll be able to use the portal that the Salem 7 came through to make their way back. I think the road was trying to save Mrs Heart. If you want real spoilers check out on IMDb how many episodes cast memebers are in - also told you from the start just who Joe Locke was likely to be playing as it lists the names of his parents characters (has done from the start). I'm still really enjoying it but then I'm a lesbian and a Joe Locke fan. When I heard he was going to be in it I started watching the whold of Marvel from the start (having never been remotely interested in any of it). I was worried he'd turn out to be a bit part but, for me it's turned out to my favourite ever watch. I know haters are going to hate but as an aging lesbian I love seeing a young gay guy getting to be at the centre of such a big franchise and I find it upsetting how bitchy people can be about it. Haters going to hate but c'est la vie, I think for someone's whose just turned 21 and has come from somewhere as remote as The Isle Of Man he's doing absolutely amazingly well and everyone he works with seems to love him which says a lot.

dayum

Mid-season (when did this become a thing?) trailer dropped.

Is that Wanda saying "Will Agatha Harkness finally meet her end?"

It sounds like Aubrey Plaza to me.

r102 wow you are ancient

episode 6 incoming

real sad for William Kaplan

Is Kaplan dead and Billy in full control or are they sharing the body?

Kaplan gone

The boyfriend texted that Billy was his black heart 🖤. So we have another option for a a black hearted witch beside Mrs Hart and Aubrey Plaza who said she has a black heart.

Speaking of, where is Aubrey this episode? The last time we saw her she was in the last trial house. Why is she not with Agatha and Billy on the Road in this episode as they team up to get to the end?

For the longes time, I thought Kathryn Hahn and Ana Gasteyer were the same person.

i loved Eddie but his face looks like the most homophobic ever lol

Billy Kaplan/Maximoff is dominating headlines and the lesbos are PISSED

The Jolene article made me laugh

The cameramen found very good angles of Joe Locke's face in episode 6, back story. It's an episode filled with close-ups and lots of acting by Locke. Both were better than I expected.

Ha!

r116 acting carries this show

Lilia dies a tarot reading on the road.

I believe that the Rio character is the Scarlett Witch, giving Aubrey Plaza a role in the new MCU. She has a history with Marvel having been in Legion. It would follow the "how Billy became alive" story.

There is only one Scarlet Witch...Wanda.

Rio is Death aka the love of Thanos's life.

Patti LuPone is DEAD TO ME! (And no, Aubrey isn't the Scarlet Witch.)

If Billy can return from the dead, why the fuck can't Wanda?

[quote]Lilia dies a tarot reading on the road.

That's weird. That was a typo earlier today. I meant Lilia does a tarot reading. Maybe I'm a seer.

Wow the Patti LuPone was amazing! !! Just like WandaVision when it’s on fire it’s on FIRE!

I pretty much assumed LuPone would exit LIKE A BOSS.

Just 2 episodes left.

Awesome episode. And of course Patti gets the best one, just as she did on Penny Dreadful, her most memorable witch role (until now).

How did Agatha "see" Wanda's body, wasn't she crushed by a mountain? Maybe in a vision.

I think she was probably lying, R126, but now you have me wondering if anyone aside from an Avengers associate knows that she died on an ethereal plane accessible by few people aside from Doctor Strange and the Scarlet Witch? And note that Agatha has been, quite literally, stuck inside the curse Wanda placed on her in "WandaVision," and may have little idea of goings-on outside of Westview.

Is it possible that Agatha and nearly everyone else thought Wanda died in Westview? (I can understand why the news media within the MCU would be careful about announcing major events involving powered humans or aliens, given Thanos's snap.)

Patti made me cry

LuPone had a great performance throughout the series. I didn’t know she was so good at screen acting. Very impressive.

Seriously, R129? Are you under the definitely mistaken impression that her entire career has been on the stage? Just to cite one example: she was the lead actor on "Life Goes On," an early '90s show that lasted for four full seasons.

I truly don't get this argument that "most" actors can somehow only work on screen or on stage, meaning either/or. Most Broadway legends have at least a few screen credits, and some have extensive ones (e.g. Nathan Lane) – and btw LuPone happened to co-star with Lane in last year's film "Beau Is Afraid."

[quote]Seriously, [R129]?

Seriously.

What a wonderful episode. Patti LuPone is just brilliant, she's easily one of my favourite actors ever.

I've only known of her from broadway press, but wow, what a fantastic performance. I'm going to miss her in this show.

R131, I don't know if you're young or merely a pretentious twat who thumbs his nose at any variety of acting not performed by thespians, but you need to be MUCH more acquainted with the bodies of work of icons like LuPone. (Unless you don't mind DL bitches eviscerating you at every turn.) She's been doing TV & film for 40 years. Even Audra McDonald, still the only recipient of Tonys in all four acting categories (among both men & women), had a five-season run on "The Good Fight," and fucking KILLED it the entire time.

Acting is acting. Yes, it's that simple, despite obvious differences: you still have to perform on cue, and be realistically convincing in the role. LuPone has stolen every fucking scene in "Agatha," and I'm truly sorry she likely won't be on the final episodes. And, again, it is in no fucking way odd that stage actors also do screen work. (Hell, I just finished the final season of "Snowpiercer," starring Daveed Diggs, who won the Tony for "Hamilton"!)

I hope LuPone is remembered when the Emmy nominations come out next year, but I worry by that time she will be forgotten.

R134, she could definitely score Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Limited Series/Anthology. OTOH the Outstanding Actress award in that category may as well already have Cristin Milioti's name on it, for "The Penguin." (Same for Colin Farrell in the Actor category.)

While I can't believe I'm even typing it, Cristin's acting far exceeds even LuPone's on "Agatha." Yes, she is THAT fucking good! Hell, even my 78-year-old mom who HATES anything superhero-related has been astounded by her performance, and she's seen LuPone on stage far more than I have.

Truly not kidding when I say the last time I was this impressed by a new-to-me actor's talents was Phoebe Waller-Bridge in "Fleabag." She is THAT GOOD. (But admittedly way less comedic.)

Yeah, Milioti is unreal. Where the fuck did she come from?

R136 don’t ask a certain Broadway performer that used to be a pretty big leading male

The reviews are in (of last night's episode), and they're as superlative as you'd expect. Some quotes:

"Until this episode, it felt like I’d been cheering for a still seated LuPone. It’s not that she hasn’t been great, because of course she has. I just knew there was no way this show cast her to just shake a maraca and have random 'kooky' outbursts. No, if you hire LuPone, you’d better have something magnificent waiting in the wings for her to grab with both hands and make entirely her own. I expected Agatha to give her that moment, but didn’t anticipate how...

This episode manages to both incorporate that and unravel a completely different but no less personal story spanning centuries of fear and hurt. It seems that Lilia’s lifelong terror of her own divination powers has been building up for so long that she’s hit a true breaking point, and the only way through is out...

Lilia reading her own Tarot spread is an important piece of the overall Road puzzle, but “Death’s Hand in Mine” also does a particularly elegant job of making it Lilia’s final act of grace toward herself, too. It’s the spotlight LuPone episode I’d been waiting for, and she never so much as sings a note — an unexpected move from an otherwise very musical show, but one that pays off, because her acting is just as nuanced and bold as her voice."

Not about LuPone, but DEFINITELY on topic for DL!

------------

We haven’t even gotten into the fact that Agatha just goes ahead and confirms that she’s queer for anyone without eyes and/or basic deductive reasoning. When she can’t answer Teen’s biggest questions about Wanda (“is she really dead?”) and Rio (“where is she?”), she shrugs, “you want straight answers? Ask a straight lady.” Once again, I have to ask if the Marvel Powers That Be have actually read the scripts for this show!

Do they know just how gay this highly anticipated spinoff is?! It’s just bizarre to see the official Marvel social media accounts post such overtly queer #content at the same time that the almighty Disney parent company’s apparently (allegedly) scouring movies of anything that could read remotely gay, but I guess, once again, it’s down to the witches they couldn’t burn to push on through."

[quote]We haven’t even gotten into the fact that Agatha just goes ahead and confirms that she’s queer for anyone without eyes and/or basic deductive reasoning.

Btw is it kinda assumed that immortal superhero characters who can live for literal centuries or millennia are bi? I know Loki was explicitly described as such, but I don't recall seeing anything like that re: Thor.

Guess Disney should catch up if it greenlights a show about a witches coven

Witches coven has been code word for lesbians for centuries.

[quote]How did Agatha "see" Wanda's body, wasn't she crushed by a mountain? Maybe in a vision.

Kind of. On the first episode when Agatha snaps out of the spell Wanda put her under, she realizes how long she's been under a hex and (for reasons I forget) ends up going to the morgue, right before she encounters Rio (Aubrey Plaza) for the first time. She immediately sees a body lying on a table with a lock of scarlet hair (ahem) and an odd Westview library card attached to the corpse's toe: it reads "W. Maximoff." She asks Rio how she died, but her only response is, "WRONG QUESTION." (The one she wanted to hear was Agatha asking about the Darkhold Wanda stole.)

Obviously that's not how she died, but it explains how Agatha *knows* she died. (Well, assuming she *is* dead, of course, and given how badly Marvel has fucked up nearly all of its main female characters – on TV and in film! – bringing back their second-best female character, behind Black Widow, would be wise.)

I saw a number of TikTok videos after the first episode stating that Agatha All Along is specifically for women and gays and lesbians. Straight men can also really enjoy it, of course.

[quote] On the first episode when Agatha snaps out of the spell Wanda put her under, she realizes how long she's been under a hex and (for reasons I forget) ends up going to the morgue,

She didn’t snap out of the spell before going to the morgue. Wanda had put a spell on her and had taken the spell off everyone else when she left Westview. Agatha has been Agnes, the nosy neighbor for three years. Her conversation with her neighbor is key, in which he tells her that recently has she been interested in crime. Apparently, something was happening with the spell and Agnes imagined herself in a different reality in which she was a cop and her neighbor was also. The things she imagined, like the body, the police station, the morgue, the burned shelves in the library, were was all in Agatha’s mind. Teen took the spell off her and she became Agatha again.

I agree that her answer was based on the illusion she saw of the body, and the uncertainty in her response comes from her knowing it was an illusion.

“Patti Lupone was amazing” is not something I thought I’d say about MCU show, but that was the best episode. I’d watch a movie about Lilia.

I sincerely hope she gets a. Emmy push. Well, her and Kathryn Hahn.

Why did Lilia say "Death – the original green witch"? Was this character green in the comics?

The Marvel Death looks…well, a sexy lady, but a skull face.

Although as many people said, if Aubrey Plaza is Death, Thanos’ motivations make a lot more sense.

r148 this show feels like it should’ve been a movie

[quote]She didn’t snap out of the spell before going to the morgue. Wanda had put a spell on her and had taken the spell off everyone else when she left Westview. Agatha has been Agnes, the nosy neighbor for three years.

Okay, I must be misremembering the specifics, but thanks for clarifying.

[quote]I sincerely hope she gets a. Emmy push. Well, her and Kathryn Hahn.

"WandaVision" scored 23 Emmy noms, so I'd say Hahn, LuPone and possibly Joe Locke could definitely do so as well.

[quote] Teen took the spell off her and she became Agatha again.

I’m going to change that and state I think Rio did it by nudging Agatha out of the spell, which I think became possible when Wanda died. Teen did his incantation and nothing happened. She saw the photos change and the mirror change before he did it. I think Rio was at least somewhat motivated to get the spell off because it also protected Agatha from any adversaries. Once it was off, she could attack Agatha and either summon the Salem Seven, or be aware that the Salem Seven would then be able to find her. Not clear though what caused Agatha as Agnes to suddenly start imagining she was a cop.

[quote]Not clear though what caused Agatha as Agnes to suddenly start imagining she was a cop.

I think it was meant as an in-joke of sorts. "WandaVision" obviously referenced each decade's variations of sitcoms, and "Agatha" has done something similar with '60s & '70s-era attire. In the beginning "Agnes" is quite obviously living out a procedural in her head, thanks to Wanda's hex. (Along with definite "Mare of Easttown" references, possibly because of the town name's similarity to Westview & Eastview.) That was why she thought the pics she showed Teen featured crime scenes, but when she snapped out of it she could see they were just ordinary photos of bushes and whatnot.

Basically she's been hallucinating for three years.

Billy being Malefiecient makes sense

My favorite line of episode 7 was "Did you not see impending impalement in your future?!?"

The line that was most like me though was, "The Chariot? It's literally written on the card." I would say that.

I just realized that both lines are Agatha's.

r154 Rio will try to reclaim Billy

I’m not getting the Disney is anti-gay take, considering the company went to war with Florida over the “don’t say gay” law. What am I missing?

Like this show. It’s a strong ensemble and I hold out hope we haven’t seen the last of Olsen’s Scarlett Witch.

R156, I'm not sure if you're commenting on my own post, but it's not that Disney is "anti-gay" per se. (If anything, they're busy fighting with ACTUAL homophobes like DeSantis.) It's more along the lines of Disney's likely entirely hetero board entirely missing how MASSIVELY queer this show is – and not just with Joe Locke. Most Marvel shows are of course "family entertainment," but tons of gay references seem to have flown straight over their heads. (Pun intended.)

As a related example of sorts: the first "South Park" movie was "South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut." The geriatric dipshits at the MPAA ENTIRELY missed that the title's an obvious cock reference.

R149 Well, if it had been done as a film, it would have been a third of what we got as a TV show so....kind of not a good idea.

Wow!

Both of these final episodes had me in tears.

That beautiful scene of Billy "finding" Tommy and then seeing Agatha's backstory with her son.

Very well done. I don't want it to end.

The finale sucked.

Listening to people do analysis this week on TikTok, the spoilers they had were accurate. They predicted Agatha's death and that the Road was created by Billy. They also feared that the finale would fizzle out like previous Marvel TV shows, and unfortunately, it did.

Agatha Harkness is DEAD TO ME!

I was kinda "meh" on the finale, though I liked the first part in Salem, but I've also assumed from day one (without reading spoilers or watching TikTok commentary) that Agatha would have to die. This was in a way how "Loki" ended as well: when him sacrificing himself for the greater good, though he admittedly saved the entire multiverse from collapsing and Agatha just had to stop being the world's first serial killer of women.

But seriously, she killed too many people to be redeemed, and unlike Loki, she obviously isn't an OG character in need of a redemption arc.

[quote]They also feared that the finale would fizzle out like previous Marvel TV shows, and unfortunately, it did.

I'd disagree with this part. I was expecting yet another round of absurdly over-the-top CG fuckery between Agatha & Rio – either that or a far-too-obvious cameo or a mid-credits scene with some future reveal or an AFTER-credits scene with one. But no.

Still, this is absolutely one of Marvel's best TV shows to date, and I'm guessing you lovely vicious cunts agree with me that the LuPone episode was handily the best of the bunch.

Just FYI, Joe Locke has some very cute IG stories about the show, including an in-studio recording session with LuPone. (He seems to be progressing nicely out of baby-gay status: he made sure to note that Miss LuPone didn't miss a single note.) He also apparently watched tonight's episodes at a party with Aubrey Plaza! I guess he's in L.A. for the moment?

I thought the finale stuck the landing.

[Quote]I was expecting yet another round of absurdly over-the-top CG fuckery between Agatha & Rio

Yep, it set that up as some typical comic book CGI battle ending then smartly subverted. What comic book property has a finale of a woman and her son making up a scam to kill people? It was great! Still had my quibbles like I can't believe we never saw the start of Agatha's and Rio/Death's relationship.

But overall I never expected to care about this show and I can't believe they really pulled off a Agatha spin off that was intelligent and mature story telling in an era where Marvel has been serving up dumb slop.

Kudos.

I probably could have done with a bit less of "Maternal Agatha wandering around woodsy Georgia with her cute son" but it was a good wrap up for the most part.

I still wish Billy had 'brought back' Mrs Hart....she didn't deserve to die!!!! She wasn't a witch!!!!

Will totally watch a third series of "The Mixed Up Adventures of Ghost Agatha & Wiccan!"

[quote]we never saw the start of Agatha's and Rio/Death's relationship.

One of a number of problems with the episode.

[quote]I still wish Billy had 'brought back' Mrs Hart....she didn't deserve to die!!!! She wasn't a witch!!!!

That was established in WandaVision that she (and now her son) can't resurrect the dead. He literally killed her by creating the poison and everything else in the trial. Now we know why Agatha winked at him and said she didn't think he had it in him as she acknowledged his first kill.

Marvel's announced that due to the show's success, they are fast tracking developing a spinoff sequel show - likely a Finding Tommy series

r167 where did they announce this ?

[quote]One of a number of problems with the episode.

But still the most glaring. They couldn't even tell us the CURRENT status of their relationship when Agatha somehow got knocked up? Had they broken up by then? Still going strong? Was Rio pissed that Agatha "had something" that she (literal Death) could not, namely a physical child?

R167, I have no idea where you heard this, but it's not in anything Marvel has released (nor has anything leaked about anything of the sort). Did you miss the trailer before the finale? It announced nearly all of the TV shows planned through the end of 2025, with one purported omission (a "Jessica Jones" reboot to go along with the "Daredevil" one). That's also an awfully one-note plot.

I'll hazard a guess that Wiccan will next show up in the first Young Avengers movie rumored to be dropping in 2026. (But probably not with Agatha. Much like Loki, I feel like her journey as a character has reached its end.)

Finally, a last hurrah for what is still one of the single best TV episodes in Marvel history.

[quote](But probably not with Agatha. Much like Loki, I feel like her journey as a character has reached its end.)

She's now set up to be a ghost advisor, like in the comic book. She's hasn't been taken off the board like Loki was.

I think they'll do another series with her but we won't see it for 3 years.

If they're going to do something with the Young Avengers, they better speed this up cause the current actors aren't going to be young much longer

Tommy is planned to appear in the upcoming VisionQuest show starring Bettany and run by Terry Matalas.

It hasn't started filming yet so they can still find a way to bring Billy/Agatha into it.

Wanda was due to be resurrected in Kang Dynasty (she was going to take all the Kangs out) but no idea now that Majors is out and Downey is back in.

[quote] Was Rio pissed that Agatha "had something" that she (literal Death) could not, namely a physical child?

I thought it was obvious that Rio knew her way before she became pregnant, loved her enough to "help" her when she was pregnant, immediately recognized her house during Agatha's trial and Nick wasn't afraid of her, or confused by her presence when she told him to come with her when he died, that she had been around and continued to be around in some way.

[quote]we never saw the start of Agatha's and Rio/Death's relationship.

The writer said she wanted to put that in there, but in the end it would have been too much for the time they had left.

[quote]Marvel's announced that due to the show's success, they are fast tracking developing a spinoff sequel show - likely a Finding Tommy series

I haven't heard that but we do know the next series is, "VisionQuest" so it would make sense if Tommy appeared there. The question is whether or not Billy will find him during the series or after. (I'm betting after.)

I think VisionQuest will be a Vision and Tommy story, too.

Marvel is floundering right now. They've had some flops and the whole debacle with Majors really threw them for a loop.

I see them continuing to make changes to Phase 6. At least shoring up some weaknesses by maybe fast tracking things that seem more hit friendly like aother Agatha and Billy story.

Otherwise, we wont' see it happen until Phase 7 which would be 26/27 at the very earliest.

Compared to the previous MCU projects, they made this Agatha series on two dimes. They probably now see the benefits on creating shows more in this style and we'll probably get future projects coming out at a faster pace

Might we visit them in a Season 2 of “Agatha?” You left it on a cliffhanger, and I wasn’t even gonna get to that ending yet, but while we’re here, is there any kind of desire for you to do another season? Or was it left that way to just let people imagine what that adventure looks like for Agatha and Billy?

You know, it’s hard to speak about because I have a lot of awareness of what the handoffs are between different properties. So really, all I can say is I, as a fan, am so excited about this duo of Billy Maximoff and his spirit guide, Ghost Agatha. And I think that there’s a lot of opportunity there.

r177 this show was announced when Marvel was into quantity more than quality. that’s not the case anymore so i doubt we will see more shows like this (in the near future anyway)

r178 Agatha is gone. doesn’t make sense for a Season 2. a Wiccan series with Agatha in it possibly

And, Agatha doesn't have to STAY a ghost in Marvel World....her character in the comics WAS a ghost for awhile but eventually was back to being...human? And, younger than before (Agatha was portrayed as an old, old lady witch in the comics when she started).

It's interesting that Schaeffer states that getting Agatha to her ghost state was the early definition of the journey for the show, getting her from point A, Wanda's spell, to point B, becoming ghost Agatha.

Maybe because I only knew the old school Agatha, I was wondering if they were going to use her with the Fantastic Four.

Joe Locke revealed an interesting change in post-production, speaking about when Agatha turned around to save Billy.

[quote]That scene was such a complicated one for me. I think it actually changed in post, I’m pretty sure, because the “Is this how Nikki died?” the telepathic line to Agatha, was a thing we added in post. So when I was playing, I was playing it that Agatha decides on her own, without any help, to turn around and then sacrifice yourself, which is how I still see it. I think that she would have, but I think you need to tell the audience that story.

When he played it, he thought that Agatha was turning around unprompted.

I hated the finale. Scene after scene of Agatha as a serial killer built her into an irredeemable monster.

I’d like to see her face all the witches that she killed in the afterlife and then spend an eternity having to listen to the gardening lady from That Seventies Show talk about flowers - after she’s rejected by her beloved son.

r184 so many reactions like this lol

she was always a monster. even when her son was alive. this wasn’t a Loki-esque story where she gets redemption nah

Exactly. The murders and villainy we saw her commit when she was introduced in Wandavision were somehow excusable, but these were too much? Her intentions to kill everyone else in Agatha All Along were clear throughout.

Yeah the show never really shyed away from her being a monster, it was more that she wasn't just completely evil like Palpatine in Star Wars. She was evil but funny with it.

I think she's over now, though. If they tried to get another show out of the character I think it'd be a mistake.

She explained to Lilia the situation, that she couldn’t steal their powers unless they used them to blast her. Even though she encouraged all the witches through time to come at her, it was ultimately the other witch’s responsibility to show restraint and not try to kill Agatha. When she took their power, she was acting in self-defense. She stood her ground.

The other witches could have walked away from Agatha’s taunts and not used their powers on her. Agatha took out witches who fired on her first.

[quote]If they're going to do something with the Young Avengers, they better speed this up cause the current actors aren't going to be young much longer

Such as? I know women can more easily look youthful if needed, thanks to carrying a bit more fat in their face, but I think all of the hypothetical Young Avenger candidates we've seen thus far can readily pass for 20something, and Joe certainly still looks boyish. (OTOH his bar mitzvah was a bit of a stretch.)

[quote]Marvel is floundering right now. They've had some flops and the whole debacle with Majors really threw them for a loop.

Are they though? They wisely course-corrected for both their movies & series, and "Deadpool & Wolverine" shattered basically every record in the book for an R-rated movie, along with a few for ALL movies. "Agatha" was their best live-action TV show in quite some time, and I'd say the same about "X-Men '97" for animation. They even took the rather extreme step of throwing out EVERYTHING they filmed for the "Daredevil" reboot during last year's strikes, I assume because it was subpar and Marvel knows full well it can't risk more half-assed shit. (The trailer for it before the "Agatha" finale was certainly compelling.)

And while the Majors thing obviously threw them for a loop, it probably helps that he was mostly introduced in one of the least-watched Marvel movies, the second "Doctor Strange" one – plus bringing back RDJ as Dr. Doom was a BOSS MOVE. (Albeit a tad thirsty.)

[quote]Might we visit them in a Season 2 of “Agatha?” You left it on a cliffhanger, and I wasn’t even gonna get to that ending yet, but while we’re here, is there any kind of desire for you to do another season?

No. It was always intended to be a limited series, as it should be, particularly since Agatha is literally dead. The ONLY MCU show to get a second season is "Loki" (at least for live action), and it richly earned it. That also wasn't a "cliffhanger." If anything it was a tease akin to the mid-credits scenes in nearly every Marvel movie, but about as likely to happen as a Blade movie with Mahershala Ali & Kit Harington (teased in the end-credits of "Eternals").

[quote]a Wiccan series with Agatha in it possibly

Again, no. Marvel's already announced most of its calendar through 2027 or 2028. It'll definitely have the Young Avengers, and Wiccan is one of the VERY few male characters who'd work. (Admittedly in part because Marvel, leaning into better representation of characters who aren't hunky white dudes, has introduced Kate Bishop as the new Hawkeye, America Chavez (Marvel's first openly queer teen IIRC, from the "Doctor Strange" sequel), a still-teenaged Kamala Khan as Ms. Marvel (on that show and in "The Marvels"), and Ironheart from Wakanda.

[quote]Maybe because I only knew the old school Agatha, I was wondering if they were going to use her with the Fantastic Four.

Doubtful. The Marvel faithful may know the Fantastic Four, but no one under 30 has ever seen one of its movies unless they made the poor decision to see the shitty attempted reboot circa 2015, before the rights reverted to Marvel. They already have to introduce at LEAST five characters never previously seen in the MCU (okay, not counting Chris Evans's Johnny Flame cameo, but still), and doing much beyond that seems like a recipe for confusion.

Majors wasn't in the second Dr Strange movie (which did pretty well). He was in the two Loki series and the third Antman film, Quantumania,. which was a disaster for all concerned.

Code name Rhythmic Crowd 28 on Amazon.

i liked Wiccan’s costume. the colours suit Joe

2nd most popular show on imdb

fucked up the link

Forbes still pays this hack and lets him continue to comment about the show.

r195 she must’ve been dunked on by Patti or something

Joe reposted Patti’s iconic memes on his Tiktok

Joe is the it boy

[quote] Joe is the it boy

Yes, he was something for half a minute.

R199 What an odd thing to say...suggesting he's "done" as a popular young actor.

Heartbreaker....hit show.

Agatha....hit show.

He's what...21 and has 2 hit shows under his belt. Got great reviews. Super cute and charming and seems to have his head on his shoulders.

Oh, and one of those hit shows is a Disney Marvel property.

I think Joe will be employed for a few more years.

[quote]I think Joe will be employed for a few more years.

Being employed somewhere doing something is not the same thing as being the "it boy".

I suspect, r201, that Joe is much, much more interested in having work for a few more year than being the "it boy".

Please share your experiences as "it".

I'm still waiting for R201 to explain why Joe no longer meets his criteria for being an "It Boy".

"It" status is really not that great of an achievement...it means you're the 'flavor of the month' and swiftly passed over to (probably) fade away for good.

Joe is still popular and he has a career established. So.....I guess that just means 201 is a troll stirring up shit for the sake of it.

Joe is a hot bottom

Season 2 potentially ?

Agatha will be featured in the last season of What If

It occurred to me this morning that she was made a ghost precisely because she failed to deliver Wiccan (I spelled an odd version of “chicken” there for a moment).