Mighty Joe Biden: You Want My Crown? Come Take it From Me

I am a democrat who, after the debate, thinks Joe should step down. Nothing that he's done since the debate helps me get back on board. This "it's the party elites and this needs to stop right now!" recalcitrance further puts me off.

Of course I'll vote for him if he stays at the top of the ticket. Trumps is a real threat to the republic. But I worry about losing the House and Senate is Biden continues to diminish support.

{quote]I am a democrat

Your only post, r1?

DNC rigged the process so RFK had to run as n Independent.

Nothing new in that.

Crazy old man sending a letter to the editor. By making the race about his health, we’re fucked because Trump will clobber him in a landslide.

Oh well, r4, you'll get over it.

@r2, Thanks, I've been blocking these assholes all week and now I've got another. r4 is another troll asshole -Bye!

[QUOTE] DNC rigged the process so RFK had to run as n Independent.

Nobody was voting to hear RFK’s voice for four years with that brillo pad stuffed in his throat.

Oh, look, another Biden doomscrolling thread 🙄.

Who' asking Trump to step down?

"In 2016 a woman who went by the pseudonyms Katie Johnson and Jane Doe in legal filings accused Trump of raping her in 1994, when she was 13, during an orgy held at Epstein’s home in Manhattan. She accused Epstein of raping her as well."

[QUOTE] Who's asking Trump to step down?

Certainly not the New York Times.

Let's just move on. The more 'ick' we put in the air the more it benefits the Rethugs.

He's President every day. The thing about Biden is they've searched and searched and not found any dirt, except Hunter's. And he's run a tight ship: when have you heard about leaks? Firings? The Rethugs hate that he's dignified.

If you take on a new candidate they could have a closet full of skeletons. Isn't that why they added Kimberley Gargoyle to the team?

So you're blocking anyone who dares to speak the truth that Joe is old and senile, and he is taking down the entire Democratic party because of his ego, not because he can win? How Trumpian and brave.

The corporate owners and other greed-heads want a Republican. That is not going to change, regardless of candidate and condition.

The literal-Bibleists want a Republican. Etc.

The uneducated racists and violence-prone want a Republican. Etc.

Their minds can never be changed, for we are talking about their character and/or their intelligence. Political facts have no influence other than to let them know which "team" either to bribe or to root for, buy the merchandise of, and argue about.

I am the same way, but as a Democrat, so I have in my favor education, facts, knowledge, and a social conscience.

This, I will vote for a dead dog before I vote for any Republican.

Trump himself has warned us with the story of the snake.

Joe has lost half of The View

This whole week I have had the same feelings I did when Ruth Bader Ginsberg died. We can have an 8-1 or even 7-2 Supreme Court in favor of conservatives.

The next few months will be interesting, I will still support Biden if he remains the nominee but you can't deny that the debate performance was not a good look, the leaks on his medical condition and the Parkinsons doctor visits...oh boy..

"I Don’t Think He Can Win’: Sara..."

He can if you vote for him.

[QUOTE] So you're blocking anyone who dares to speak the truth that Joe is old and senile

Anyone who says Joe is “old and senile” is LYING. That is the OPPOSITE of the TRUTH. He may be old but he’s far from senile.

Trump MISSING, Melania MISSING, Biden has 18 public events

The geniuses on "The View" have opined!

I'm persuaded now!

I should ask about the 5th at Aqueduct!

"Joe has lost half of The View "

But is it lost lost

[quote] Trump MISSING, Biden has 18 public events

Trump letting the poor old guy run himself to exhaustion speeding up Joe's deterioration. This was the guy who still hadn't recovered in a week after his flight from Europe.

Trump 24. Calling it now. Sad.

[quote]I am the same way, but as a Democrat, so I have in my favor education, facts, knowledge, and a social conscience. This, I will vote for a dead dog before I vote for any Republican.

You contradict yourself. If you have all of that, you should be asking why it has to get to this point in the first place, where that's the only option that the democratic party can produce.

And why is it up to the people to save democracy yet again? The people did their job electing Biden the first time. I hear people saying that Biden saved us from Trump. How? He's still running for office! How did he save us? What was Merrick Garland doing all this time?

Biden should have been a one term, transition president, like he initially promised at the outset. These last few years should have been highlighting the younger group of politicians, and Biden should have been mentoring Kamala Harris to take over. And if that didn't have happen, then we should have had an open primary this year.

Instead, it's a shitshow, and it's becoming less and less about saving democracy, and more and more about making sure Joe Biden gets elected than anything else. You now have his supporters talking about withholding support and possibly votes for the democrats who have expressed concern about him running. So we can have no majorities in the House or Senate as long as Biden becomes President. What happened to getting all three branches back.?

I will vote for him if he's the candidate come November, but this is all on him and his team at this point. Don't blame third parties or anybody else for this mess. Obama called it years back about him.

^ You are an asshole and a cunty asshole on top of just a run-of-the-mill asshole

The education is clearly paying off R24.

'Anyone who says Joe is “old and senile” is LYING. That is the OPPOSITE of the TRUTH. He may be old but he’s far from senile.'

Oh brother. Guy it does not get better. Just look at Joe from four years ago. There has been an enormous deterioration in those 4 years. And it speeds up. I don't even want to think of him in one year.

Still voting for him but R23 got it right. Of course he's digging in his heels. He's got beginning dementia and try dealing with a dementia patient. They will fight you tooth and nail.

R24 you are a very stupid disgusting human being.

Selfish, short-sighted, doddering prick. As with RBG, he's going to screw us all over with his egotistical, recalcitrant game-playing.

This bitch can talk this shit now. But couldn’t talk that shit to his actual opponent during the debate. He probably didn’t even make this statement. It’s his handlers telling him what to say. Their thinking about their clout and didn’t foresee him not winning again and thought they could hide his mental decline. Sad.

Joe hasn't been "mighty" in a long time. Sadly, those days are behind him. It's embarrassing that he (and the deluded faithful) refuse to accept these difficult, bitter realities.

R23, I don't mean to be contradictory.

I don't recall Joe stating he was planning on only one term.

How did we Democrats come to this pass? Health can deteriorate faster than we expect.

As for mentoring Kamala: That was never going to happen. Joe ignores her viability even now. She was a pick for demographics, as many a disliked VP has been ("Hillbilly" LBJ; "Straight-arrow faithful" Gore; "Maybe he needed to be hanged" Christian Pence; e.g.) and is serving that purpose.

Biden did say he would be a one term president. I remember that clearly too. And he said that over criticism about his age 4 years ago. The average age presidents die is 85. All these politicians are fraudulent except Obama.

Joe has thrown down the proverbial gauntlet. He who picks it up should know that if you strike at the King, you'd best not miss.

He has now come to view as enemies the likes of Warner.

This race is going to be one for the history books. I foresee a lot of change coming regardless of who wins, and that includes an amendment regarding age limits for the presidency.

Joe is one step away from accidentally urinating in public. He looks and sounds like a rotting corpse.

@r25, "The education is clearly paying off [R24]. "

When do you plan to start yours? The Trump School of Assholery doesn't count, asshole

Did I mention that you're an ASSHOLE?

[quote] Joe is one step away from accidentally urinating in public.

Seriously do you think it hadn't passed that point a long time ago?

@r29, "Joe hasn't been "mighty" in a long time. Sadly, those days are behind him."

You think this is the answer? 😂

Holy, this story isn't great. I'm not sure if it's been posted here or not.

The fucking trolls on this thread, it's like playing Whack-a-Mole

Holy, this story isn't great. I'm not sure if it's been posted here or not.

r38, try harder, dickhead

R2 Is this strategic obfuscation? Or just ignorance? I've posted hundreds of times in the Biden threads and several thousand times since joining DL decades ago. I am embarrassed I am on DL as much as I am. I need to get a life.

Joe thinks he's still got it. Maybe he does. But he has to prove it. Press conferences. Live Town Halls. UNscripted campaign events. If he can't do those, he's toast.

Biden shouting and mumbling on Morning Joe was embarrassingly sad.

[QUOTE]Biden did say he would be a one term president.

When the hell did he say that, R31?

From bridge candidate to David Koresh

Jesus Christ this guy is in need of a diaper change. The DNC fucked the pooch again.

R33, An amendment? The states laugh.

[quote]r23 = Instead, it's a shitshow, and it's becoming less and less about saving democracy, and more and more about making sure Joe Biden gets elected than anything else.

R46, Allow me to introduce you to the lovely fecally incontinent Donald J. Trump.

And remind you that we have a Democrat in the White House, as we did 2009--2017.

^ If it didn't happen yesterday the trolls aren't interested

Yall must have the same amnesia that Biden has.

Folks, Captain 🧑‍✈️ Biden here, ready to depart on the SS Titanic 2024! No need to worry about icebergs or getting enough votes! Cut the malarkey and let’s sail away!

^ No we'll are fine, what part of Trump's record do you need to be reminded of, hillbilly?

@r46, "Jesus Christ this guy is in need of a diaper change"

I'm sure...

What are we going to do about Trump's dementia?

“Our army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports, it did everything it had to do, and at Fort McHenry, under the rockets’ red glare, it had nothing but victory,”

[quote] it took over the airports, it did everything it had to do

Be honest. Did you see a single English plane land that night ?

Hakeem standing with Joe!

[QUOTE] Representative Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York and the House minority leader, said his position “has not changed” on President Biden and his candidacy. “I made clear publicly, the day after the debate, that I support president Joe Biden and the Democratic ticket,” he said.

Alright man! 👨 Hakeem is sailing with me on the SS Titanic 2024! Now I can continue my napping and early bedtime! I’ll race you to the ice cream bar! Captain 🧑‍✈️ Joe 🚢

In my country, we say it's better to give with warm hands (implied: ... than your possessions having to be pried out of your cold, dead hands). Oh well, ...

^ That's sweet... Do you have possessions in your country?

The Joe is sharp as a tack trolls are beyond the pale.

[quote]The Joe is sharp as a tack trolls are beyond the pale.

I have no doubt that he's sharper than *you*, r61, and he's a helluva lot sharper than Trump.

[quote]Nobody was voting to hear RFK’s voice for four years with that brillo pad stuffed in his throat.

r7 It's a real shame what happened to his voice. I think one of his sisters has the same disorder, also.

Stephen King and Michael Moore calling for him to step down along with Rob Reiner

^ RFK Jr. eats the puppies Kristi Noem kills

How exactly is Joe planning to make up for the enormous enthusiasm gap he now faces? He’s the worst person to go after Trump because he doesn’t inspire any confidence. No one takes an old man whisper shouting in the front yard seriously.

"whisper shouting" made me laugh, maybe he could pair up with Janet Jackson while she does her whisper coo singing.

R62 Clearly Trump is a helluva lot sharper than you.

I can’t believe out of the entire American population we’re being forced to choose between two geriatric morons.

R66, that’s not the point for these Biden or Bust folks. They see Trump as invincible except for Uncle Joe’s magic. Polls don’t matter, evidence of his deterioration doesn’t matter, the inability to speak in public without a script doesn’t matter.

This is an October surprise in June, and they are insisting that nothing can be done. We just have to hope and lose gracefully with Joe. They don’t have a plan, they can’t say how he can possibly win, but they will rip apart anyone trying to change course.

OP's headline reminded me of this video.

@r70 We need to hope and pray that someone rips your face off from the inside 🙂

[quote]I can’t believe out of the entire American population we’re being forced to choose between two geriatric morons.

That's what you get, r69, when you don't get involved.

^ Or, when you live in a different country and aren't allowed to vote in American elections

Which is probably closer to the truth

R67 DEAD 😂

Calm down, r55. Have a cup of covfefe. 😉

R70, The difference is that any October Surprise is in....October, the perpetrators' hope's being that Americans won't have time to forget it by Election Day.

July is fuhgeddaboutit. Furthermore, there's plenty of time for Trump to say or do something outrageous that the media cannot ignore.

Too bad this week's Feisty Joe didn't show up at the debate. Instead of insulting Trump he would have been better served by challenging the worst of Trump's lies.

"I can't believe what you just said, man! Are you accusing Democrats and doctors of MURDERING NEWBORNS? That's a disgusting LIE, PAL! you keep lying to the American people!"

Trump said outrageous things in 2016 and still got elected. Don't count on Magas turning on Trump. They like that he lies and is antagonistic. Biden will lose to him

According to four people who regularly talk to Biden, all of whom asked for anonymity to discuss internal campaign matters, it is virtually inconceivable that he will run for reelection in 2024, when he would be the first octogenarian president. “If Biden is elected,” a prominent adviser to the campaign said, “he’s going to be 82 years old in four years and he won’t be running for reelection.”

I love a smart ass and Joe is that.

I'm sorry R79, did you think you had a point?

Pro tip: the point is on the top of your head.

R78, He lied and didn't get elected in 2020, and he's up against that opponent, not 2016's.

I agree that MAGAts love Trump's pugnacious attitude and brazen lies. They think it shows that Trump is "strong." He isn't at all---he clearly is an unfit coward---but MAGAts WANT a bully as President. They WANT to push others around and take their lunch money. That is why Trump the Sexual Assaulter is an object of admiration, as seen on some MAGAt women's T-shirts.

Link:

All the trolls on here attacking Biden are total hypocrites. Dump was showing signs of dementia from day one of his presidency. Along with severe mental illness. He is only a few years younger than Biden and is morbidly obese, wears diapers and spews incoherent word salad/lies every time he opens his pie hole. This election isn't about Biden or his fitness to serve at this point. Its about stopping Dump and Project 2025. Biden has a competent cabinet and VP running things. He doesn't have an agenda to become a fascist king of America. Yeah he should have stepped aside and let someone else run months ago. But this election is about deciding if you want to continue being a Democratic Republic or if you want to become Nazi Germany.

R85 Many of those expressing concern about Biden have concern EXACTLY because it's so important to beat Trump. Is Trump pathological, old and in cognitive decline? Yes, of course. That doesn't change the conversation about whether Biden is equipped to beat the motherfucker.

Trump is a lot of things. Unfit, ignorant, can’t right policy, draconian right wing but yall know dam well it’s a false narrative to suggest he seems like he has dementia. Because he doesn’t all. That cunt remembers every lil thing. That’s why he is able to be so simple and bring up the most innocuous things to make a point only a low iq American would agree with. It’s already too late anyways. Biden is doubling down because his team didn’t plan on not having their white house positions for the next 4 years. That’s what this shit is all about. Mark my words. I said the same thing and was cussed out here in 2016. Trump will be our next president.

Nowhere in your article, R79, is a quote from Joe Biden saying he won’t run again.

Demential means you can't remember what you're talking about, not that you can't remember an insult from fifty years ago R87.

Biden is dumb and lazy and doesn't understand how violent and revolutonary his opponents are. If he were just a little smarter he would use the power the SCOTUS just handed him and clean house, starting with them.

Biden is also a narcissist, which makes sens because almost everybody who runs for president is, but to imagine he could take pride in his debate performance suggests he has no judgement whatsoever and Putin for one is sure to take advantage of that.

R89 Bruh Trump doesn’t have dementia. We have eyes and common sense. And they been hiding this fucker for 2 summers. It’s just sickening what happening.

Trump definitely has dementia, but it is true he is so ignorant and dishonest that is hard to pick it out of all the lies.

How come nobody ever talked about Trump having dementia before the debate when it is all many talked about regarding Biden before the debate. This is why people just give up on liberalism even though the repubs are crooks. Crooks can be real. Be real. Be real. People hate people who are full of shit.

I still can't fathom how Biden believes that he is the only person that can beat Donald Trump. Utter and complete delusion. Biden is behind in the polls and HAS NO PLAN to catch up. Yelling is not going to help him with voters. The only interest he will generate is morbid curiosity as people watch to see him mess up and confirm, again, yep, he's still 81 and making mistakes. Not enough people will want to give him the reins again, knowing that he will decline for four more years. Why are the Democrats afraid to tell him the truth? It doesn't speak well for the party apparatus that they can't have a real discussion with him. He sends a letter today saying any discussion of the debate is now over? WTF? What a jerk.

"Joe Biden is doing terrific!! Only 118 days left until he loses!! Hang in there cause you are royally screwing it all up!! Staying off the campaign trail was another great move...Jill campaigned in Florida to tell everyone to vote Joe, who apparently stayed home instead of going with Jill??!! What an awesome campaign you are running!!"-------[bold]--Republican Party[/bold]

Biden---------->>"I'm not going anywhere"

Trump---------->>"Until January. You can't even pull 5 points of a convicted felon!!"

These are the same losers who told us he couldn’t win the 2020 nomination. Then when he won, they said Joe was doomed in the general election.

Trump clearly has a form of dementia.

His inability to finish thoughts; tendency to garble or make up words; need to relate nonsense "anecdotes" of lies, fantasies, and bizarre elements (Revolutionary War airports; sinking battery boats; waterless showers; and hundreds more); and most disturbing, his constant use of aggressive and even violent language, imagery, and threats (vicious; bloodbath; rapists; murderers; nasty; mean; retribution; etc.)....

show a mind with increasing difficulty with rational thought and language, reliant more and more on grandiosity, paranoia, wrath, and authoritarianism.

This is not a person fit for the Presidency.

[quote] Biden is behind in the polls and HAS NO PLAN to catch up.

Here is Biden's plan: "Folks, I know that 72% of you think I'm mentally unfit to continue as president. I know you were hoping for new, fresh candidates instead of a rematch between Trump and me. I know that less than 40% of you approve of my job performance. I know that many of you think I'm old and feeble. But I don't care. You're all wrong. ... And please vote for me!"

Poor R99. Finally sinking in that Gav won’t be handed the nomination for looking pretty? Poor guy will have to earn it the old fashioned way in 2028.

[quote]How come nobody ever talked about Trump having dementia before the debate

Tell us you haven't been reading DL for the past eight years without telling us.

David Pakman talked about three times a week for a year R93

R87 R93 I wonder if this is a real comment, or just stirring up shit. Of course there have comments, many and often, about Trump's confusion and mental decline. "I'm running against Obama", forgetting his wife's name, incoherent stories about sharks and batteries, confusing the state he's speaking in, confusing Hungary and Turkey, on and on and on. Lots of print/media reflection in the last year (long before the debate) that MAGA doesn't care about his gaffes but Dems hyper-vigilant about Biden's.

Neither should be running for President.

I guess he wants to be surrounded by yes-people who do his bidding and take his word for everytthing. Stupid and egoistic.

We need a president who can be told the truth and respects the truth. Neither of these clowns does.

Trump is going to spend the next 3.5 mos. stumbling, slurring, mixing-up names, threatening, lying and meeting with his 27 different lawyers. Why focus on Biden?

What would be the datalounge reaction if Trump reverted to a thee year old's vocabulary and the White House pressured media to cover it up?

Example - Saying he did his goodest.

After what the Supreme Court decided vis a vie presidential immunity, does it even matter who is elected? Eventually SOMEONE will come along with terrible intentions and will be protected.

That means it matters all the more, R108.

Curious whether Carter outlives Biden at this point, to be honest. I‘d have greater trust in the former. He‘s not shaking hands with imaginary people. Good luck with calling everyone a troll who is pointing out the obvious. You need to nominate a capable person - capable in the loosest possible sense because the opponent is Trump - if you want to win in November. If you don‘t, it‘s you damaging democracy this time. The GOP showed us that you don‘t need any moral qualities, intellect, manners or education to become president. You are about to show that the president has nothing to say anyway and it doesn‘t matter who is president as obviously others make decisions for him, even the ones that nominally pertain to the president. It is bad if he stays, for democracy and for America, possibly worse than another four years of Trump.

R105, Your observation that President Biden is a "clown" shows a less than discerning mind.

Nancy and Hakeem are herding those cats. Nailer has already flip flopped. More will follow in the days to come.

[quote] Curious whether Carter outlives Biden at this point, to be honest.

I hope not. I want Biden to see the outpouring of grief for Carter, a man who had time to rehabilitate his reputation, and know that he will never have that.

[QUOTE] Biden is also a narcissist, which makes sens because almost everybody who runs for president is, but to imagine he could take pride in his debate performance suggests he has no judgement

Joe Biden has done nothing but admit his debate performance was terrible. He’s said it a million times over! Where are you Biden haters getting this stuff from?

R114, he followed up with non-stop rambling interviews. He didn’t just have a bad debate performance, he has a non-stop bad brain.

R85 No nobody has ever pointed out on DL that Trump is a fat lying piece of shit. Indeed we are all hypocrites. Now get the fuck off this site and spout your crazy man garbage on some city street.

Some of the Nato alliance are worried about Biden running again. They like him as a person but have noticed that he often repeats himself or goes off topic. I hate this!

[quote]Some of the Nato alliance are worried about Biden running again. They like him as a person but have noticed that he often repeats himself or goes off topic.

They're gonna love Trump again.

No. They'll hate the idea of an American telling them the US won't give them a free ride forever. After decades, only in the last year or two have most NATO nations moved towards living up to their commitments.

Now with leftist governments in the UK and France I'm skeptical they will maintain this new pace.

R119 Shouldn't you be over at Stormfront talking about Trump's delicious turds?

Democrats emerging from a closed-door meeting Tuesday to discuss President Biden’s political future offered support for their party leader a day after the White House’s full-court press to beat back critics within his party, even as some detractors pushed for a reset.

In a meeting that ran for roughly two hours, the debate was lopsided in favor of keeping the president on the ticket — a dynamic suggesting that Biden has, at least for now, prevented the slow seep of individual detractors from becoming a flood.

R119 thanks for that article.

I'm just glad Biden will be leaving the scene naked.

As the incumbent, Biden can start leading on Day 1- no hiring or moving or months of chaos. That alone is attractive to me as a voter. And with a mandate like a second term he can do a lot of awesome things in 48 mos.

The only mandate will be to defeat Biden and elect Trump, sadly. Biden cannot win unless Trump does something outrageous to turn off voters, which could happen but seems unlikely. I understand why they feel they have to stick with Biden (because he doesn't want to step down), but it's not a winning strategy.

R121 - typical tunnel-vision and downright cowardice of the Democratic Party. Say hello to another 4 brutal years of Trump.

You were on here saying the same thing in 2020 when Biden vanquished whatever Dem nominee’s dick you were sucking, R126. Who were you rooting for? Klobuchar? Pete? Let me guess, fucking Bernie Sanders?

[quote][R121] - typical tunnel-vision and downright cowardice of the Democratic Party. Say hello to another 4 brutal years of Trump.

There's toilet paper stuck to your shoe, r126...

#125 certainly has an agenda. Dozens of anti-Biden posts and they all start right after the debate.

Guilty. Right after grandpa screwed the pooch.

[QUOTE] #125 certainly has an agenda. Dozens of anti-Biden posts and they all start right after the debate.

But what the hell could his agenda possibly be, R129. I don’t get it. Are these people here to convince Dataloungers that Biden is so old, they need to vote for Trump this November? Surely they can’t be under the impression that a torrent of anti-Biden posts on DL will somehow get Joe to step down so King Gavin can take over.

Joe Biden is the Democratic nominee for president. End of discussion.

moving

right

the

fuck

along.....

[quote]But what the hell could his agenda possibly be, [R129]. I don’t get it. Are these people here to convince Dataloungers that Biden is so old, they need to vote for Trump this November?

Sometimes I think they have a humiliation kink and get off on DLers thinking they're idiots.

[quote]Are these people here to convince Dataloungers that Biden is so old, they need to vote for Trump this November? Surely they can’t be under the impression that a torrent of anti-Biden posts on DL will somehow get Joe to step down so King Gavin can take over. Joe Biden is the Democratic nominee for president. End of discussion.

R131 how did you type that with your little fists on your hips?

I think you’re not allowing for Democrats to want Biden to step down for the good of the party and country. And yes, this is because he is too weakened as a candidate to win.

By the way, please feel free to share your plan on how he can turn things around. I would love to hear it.

NBC: A hot bear Neurologist comments on Biden's health.

He has no doubt as to what's going on here...

There's a difference between having concerns about Biden's physical condition and electability and repeating ad nauseam that he and his family are evil and doomed to defeat. The former is understandable, the latter is trolling.

[quote]I think you’re not allowing for Democrats to want Biden to step down for the good of the party and country. And yes, this is because he is too weakened as a candidate to win.

[quote]By the way, please feel free to share your plan on how he can turn things around. I would love to hear it.

By the way, r135, feel free to share your choice for the person to replace him that would beat Trump. We're behind Joe.

[quote]With the eyes of the world on him, President Joe Biden delivered a forceful speech to open the NATO summit in Washington, aiming to reverse doubts about his fitness for the job domestically while boasting that his leadership revitalized the storied alliance and saved Ukraine.

[quote]The president didn’t fumble over words as he often does during remarks. He was clear and forceful, appearing energized by the transatlanticism that he has embraced throughout his political career.

He’s more persistent than me!

[quote]We're behind Joe.

The voices in your head can vote? I'm impressed.

Biden can deliver all the teleprompter speeches he wants. The curtain has been pulled back, and revealed him for what he is.

Awwww, r140, do you need attention? Is that what you need?

R141 yes.

You still haven’t shared your plan for Biden to win.

[quote]You still haven’t shared your plan for Biden to win.

You still haven't shared your viable alternative that would beat Trump.

Any number of people - Harris, Newsom or Shapiro. That would energize the party.

But you are ducking the question of how Joe can win.

[quote]But you are ducking the question of how Joe can win.

Joe will win because he will get more votes and win the Electoral College...that's how, silly. He's done it before.

Four months to November is an eternity in politics. If Biden doesn’t have another debate-like fiasco, there’s plenty of time to turn this around. That he’s running against an historically terrible, evil former president can’t be discounted.

R147 which Peoples Temple congregant are you?

You aren't here to discuss, r148, you're only here to make noise.

[QUOTE] Any number of people - Harris, Newsom or Shapiro. That would energize the party.

Yes, nothing says “energize” like Josh Shapiro.

President Shapiro!

I don't see it.

R147, there’s no turning this around. The internet is forever. He’s done a million interviews that are now worse than the debate. The entire would is running with this. It’s over for Biden.

R149 Like this?

KABOOM!

Biden and his cabinet are a million times more competent than the old, orange Turnip and his criminal toadies. .

I really don’t understand all the hand-wringing.

[quote]There's a difference between having concerns about Biden's physical condition and electability and repeating ad nauseam that he and his family are evil and doomed to defeat. The former is understandable, the latter is trolling.

And then there's obsessive-compulsive "concerns" over Biden's health after 15-20 campaign events, 2-3 live TV interviews, and a NATO summit.

They're actually starting to cover Biden events live in the hopes they'll catch him in a senior moment.

It's just creepy and weird at this point.

"But what the hell could his agenda possibly be,"

To switch the candidate to John Bouvier Kennedy Schlossberg and lose bigly.

[quote][R147], there’s no turning this around. The internet is forever. He’s done a million interviews that are now worse than the debate. The entire would is running with this. It’s over for Biden.

Aren't you just the *cutest* little drama queen, r152? Why yes you are!

No comments about the conclusions made by the specialist at R136?

He comes right out and says it: Biden has Parkinsion's. He has a degenerative disease.

Has he examined Biden? No. But he says that Parkinson's is actually easy to diagnose and that you could see that Biden has Parkinson's "from across the Mall".

There's a cover-up going on here.

George has spoken.

The parkinsons thing is BS. Biden was not even in DC for most of the parkinsons doctor's visits. Also he doesn't shake. I've known a few people that had parkinsons and they shook like crazy. But the NYT basically is pushing this narrative and they have it out for Biden.

[quote]But the NYT basically is pushing this narrative and they have it out for Biden.

It's ridiculous how blatant it's gotten, r160.

I'll trust the neurologist.

[quote]Also he doesn't shake. I've known a few people that had parkinsons and they shook like crazy.

John Hopkins Medicine:

"Myth: Everyone with Parkinson's disease has tremors."

"Fact: It's easy to connect tremor to Parkinson's disease because it's a prominent and recognizable symptom. But some people with Parkinson's never have a tremor, and even those who do may not have it at the start of the condition."

Hmm. It seems the Biden or nothing folks have no plan. Just a hope that he will somehow win from doing his “goodest.”

I wonder if he's been taking meds for Parkinsons for years and they've become ineffective (I think that's how it works, with L-Dopa). I asked Google AI and it said:

Can levodopa be used long term?

Patients receiving long-term levodopa therapy must contend with some adverse effects. After 5 years the majority of these patients suffer fluctuations, dyskinesias, toxicity, or loss of efficacy.

Karine Jean-Pierre just said he is not taking Parkinson's meds.

Has the President been treated for Parkinson's? No.

Is he being treated for Parkinson's? No, he's not.

Is he taking medication for Parkinson's? No.

It’s a bad sign for Joe that the Democrats are still divided about him. I wonder if they are hoping he face plants at his NATO press conference on Thursday.

Cleaning up the lies:

CNN — President Joe Biden saw a neurologist at the White House in January as part of his annual physical, White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said in a new statement Tuesday evening, correcting her comment from earlier in the day that the specialist’s visit earlier this year had not been related to the president.

Well, if he's not taking meds, he should be.

His behavior would be consistent with being off his meds.

I looked it up on WebMD. Now I'm a Parkinsons expert!

R171 An expert gives his opinion at R136

[quote]CNN — President Joe Biden saw a neurologist at the White House in January as part of his annual physical, White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said in a new statement Tuesday evening, correcting her comment from earlier in the day that the specialist’s visit earlier this year had not been related to the president.

What more do we need to know that this White House is lying?

[quote]Cleaning up the lies:

My, my, r168...how convenient of you to omit the complete story. Bless your heart.

Grandpa, you can no longer drive. It's getting dangerous for you and everyone else. Give us the keys.

Trump is all over the Epstein stuff and has 34 counts against him. How did it come to this?

It came to this because Joe Biden is a piece of shit.

LoL, r176, go sling your poo-poo caca somewhere else.

[quote]Grandpa, you can no longer drive. It's getting dangerous for you and everyone else. Give us the keys.

Remember when Biden wanted to put a moat on the US Mexican border and fill it with snakes and alligators?

Crazy shit.

Oh wait sorry, that was the other one. My bad. They're so much alike you know.

A woman of Color would lose.

A White woman would lose.

A gay man would lose.

A Jewish man would lose.

And a Californian would lose.

Who is the Magic Candidate that can defeat Trump?

Please don't suggest Michelle. She wouldn't step foot back in the WH. And she's not known for any policies.

I'm your man, r179.

Streisand/Gaga 2024

[quote] Who is the Magic Candidate that can defeat Trump?

ROFL

“Trump is so terrifying that no Democrat can defeat him”

“The only person who can defeat Trump is a senile liar who may be dead before the end of the year whose bitch wife and crackhead son have been running the country in secret and whose approval rating has hovered in the high 30s for two years and that was even before people found out he was senile”

Trump in Doral: "Mothers will never again be forced to watch their children overdosing and hosp--lee. And we will never allow mothers to watch their child hopelessly dying in their arms, screaming, 'What can I do? What can I do? Help me God, what can I do?' We are a nation whose once revered airports are a dirty, crowded mess."

easy for rich, famous, white men to take bold risks?

Biden lover at R179, do you really believe only Joe - the absolute weakest candidate - is the only person who can beat Donald Trump? 🤣 hahaha. Or is this just your thing to get attention?

r185 is the reason the word retarded was invented.

Jesus, you *have* to trolldar r185. Reading all of her doom posts in a row is quite entertaining.

You’re so full of shit. Just admit you love elderly Joe Biden 💕 and are delusional.

I half wonder if the Biden lover 💕 is a Russian plant to keep Biden in the race. It’s certainly not smart.

R183 So Dump's latest fixation is on how bad air travel is nowadays? Totally coherent, but Joe is the senile one.

R189, You are actually stupider than r185. But thanks for thinking I have such major influence on the Biden campaign!

R185, Put up or STHU. Name your better candidate and his or her path to Electoral victory. And show the polls. I'll wait.

"Anybody But Biden" posters:

Where's the new campaign $ coming from? Team Biden CANNOT transfer any.

How does switching horses in mid-stream convey Party confidence, strength, unity, leadership, steadiness? If you just say, well, anything is better than what Biden is conveying, you don't see the proverbial forest.

How can this New Candidate possibly campaign enough around the country by November?

What's the advertising pitch? "Joe Was Good; Now We're Great!"? Yeah, yeah, I know: "Moving Forward" or some such dismissive empty slogan.

Who do you imagine can unite the Party and prevent a disastrous floor fight at the Convention? The visuals alone would be fatal.

I sit ready to be informed.

No you don’t. You’re just full of shit. Kamala is already polling better than Biden and would get all of the campaign funds. You are either dense or just posting your contrarian crap for attention.

And as for the reason for the switch, it’s because Biden is not up to running and winning. Definitely not serving for another 4 years. But you already know this.

Open convention would totally energize the voters.

No it would not R194, the last time they had one it almost turned into a riot. Only MAGA and Putin want this.

Civil war would totally energize the voters.

Youth voters don't exist. They're notoriously unreliable.

R155 This (your) is the perspective that baffles me. I am a lifelong Democrat who of course will vote for Biden if that's the choice. I am set to do canvassing for the Dem ticket, I've given $ to both Biden and other GOTV initiatives. I believe with all my heart that Trump's election is an existential threat to our Republic.

But the events, strategies and performance after the debate 1) reinforce your belief that he can win this 2) further discourage me, I see belligerence, not strength - I don't think Joe gets it now and 3) does absolutely nothing to win over the swing voters and re-establish the Biden coalition he had in 2020. He was in trouble with swing voters before the debate... it's gotten worse after the debate, and nothing, yet, he's done since stops the sliide.

Today's polls that show him in trouble in MN and NH... we could be on the verge of a landslide victory for the fascists. Thats NOT ok. Check how this morning Pelosi said "Joe has to decide if he is going to run".... that message is clear, a cry from the heart, "Joe, please step aside and let someone else try to win this.... you can't."

LOL at Pelosi saying Joe still has to decide, completely ignoring his letter. She knows he’s not viable.

R200 And few people in American politics is better at the public messaging that has a private meaning. She's telling Joe to step aside.

This is NOT something to celebrate. But we need to get on with it. We need to win this election.

R195, is everyone who disagrees with you MAGA or Russian? Or is that just here?

[quote]She's telling Joe to step aside.

She absolutely is. I wonder if she'll tell him that to his face?

R202 It's such a hard time. I think to help (although I guess that's condescending) the people who are so angry at calls for Joe to let someone else run, this is only thing I'll post now:

[quote]I love Joe Biden. But we need a new nominee.

R202: a few people are so completely invested in their very liberal political identity that ANY dissention is seen as a threat. Toe-the-line, or you're MAGA/Russian in their heads.

Clooney:

“It’s devastating to say it, but the Joe Biden I was with three weeks ago at the fund-raiser was not the Joe “big F-ing deal” Biden of 2010. He wasn’t even the Joe Biden of 2020. He was the same man we all witnessed at the debate.

Our party leaders need to stop telling us that 51 million people didn’t see what we just saw. We’re all so terrified by the prospect of a second Trump term that we’ve opted to ignore every warning sign.

The George Stephanopoulos interview only reinforced what we saw the week before.

As Democrats, we collectively hold our breath or turn down the volume whenever we see the president, who we respect, walk off Air Force One or walk back to a mic to answer an unscripted question.”

R205 I don't know, I think it's more individual than that essentialism. I am so invested in my liberal progressive identity (i.e values), that I really want Joe to step down, I post that all over.

Okay, fine; I yield (for now).

If I were Joe, I'd quit. Tell'em, "Now go and do WhateverTF you want."

R209 I am not holding my breath, but Jesus I'd love if Joe stepped down with dignity, integrity and strength, and democrats could honor him for the best Presidency in our lifetime, and build upon his legacy to win the November election.

Correcting myself:

Any other candidate would probably receive Biden money from a PAC. Also, as VP, Kamala is on the ticket already, so likely would receive Biden campaign funds.

I think the move is a done deal. Too much public push for it from Very Important People.

The timing? The Republican Convention is soon.

Funny though, the opprobrium lobbed at a fervent pro-Biden Democrat. Who knew?

I’m looking forward to the Olympics as a much-needed distraction from all this insanity.

[quote]The timing? The Republican Convention is soon.

Biden announcing his withdrawal from the race next week would certainly suck all the air out of convention coverage and drive Trump into a jealous rage as a result.

Also, how would their speeches go? Rather than rage against Biden, they’d have to rage about an undetermined candidate.

R213 This makes so much sense. Pelosi's careful withholding of unqualified support does seem a kind and respectful way to set the stage for his withdrawal...and what an effective unplugging of the MAGA nonsense that it coming next week. In his "I'm done, thanks" speech, as he "hands it off to a younger generation" he can talk about Trump's age, the draconian Christian dictatorship described in Project 2025. You wanted Joe to get people's attention and make the case? How about in a speech where he passes the torch?

Thank you George Clooney. Thank you.

After the horrible debate, I originally thought well he is 81, maybe he was a bit disoriented from cold meds. But then his press secretary stated that he didn’t take any. I’m not a doctor so I won’t make up things about people’s health. The debate was more than just his raspy voice and old appearance. He wasn’t completing sentences in ways that an educated person or someone heavily involved in these matters would. There is something amiss, and his health is his private business. Well technically its is not because he is president. At any rate we all know what we saw at the debate and ABC interview.

I just want to add something else. Trump’s complete restraint regarding Biden’s mental decline kinda confirms something for me. He knows something. Trump is a former president and would be able to secretly get info from the White House.

R218 Complete restraint... is curious. Did you see clips of him at his rally yesterday?

R219 No. is he now going for the jugular? Day 1 after the debate, Biden’s mental state has dominated the political press. I kinda expected Trump to talk about it constantly. But I guess he is now changed back to pre-debate.

If your horse limps on three legs, you don’t need a vet to make the decision to not let it race. You get the vet to find out what’s wrong. Separate issues. „But are you a doctor?“ is pure gaslighting. We can count legs on a horse and we can see Biden is not fit for the job anymore.

R127 - sweetie, in case you haven't noticed, it's 2024 not 2020. The situation is vastly different. Biden has deteriorated rapidly even in recent months. Everyone can see it, even those who wish to avoid facing that bitter reality. Get your head (and the stick) out of your ass, you tedious dipshit.

R135 - I feel sorry for any of the DLers still adamantly pro-Biden remaining as the weakened candidate he is even when it's so painfully obvious he's only half-coherent most of the time. They will have a problematic reality smack them in the face in November. I hope they have the emotional stamina to face it.

R223 Just today I've come to believe that Biden will step down before the Dem convention.

After the convention, whether it's someone new or Biden, we will all pull together and fight like hell to win the election. Congress, Senate, and presidency. Contributing $, convassing... those arguing now about Biden and his capacity will WORK TOGETHER to protect the Republic.

[quote] Also, how would their speeches go? Rather than rage against Biden, they’d have to rage about an undetermined candidate.

It would actually be brilliant if Biden were to step down immediately before Trump's big speech at the Republican convention. You know that Trump's speech will be all about attacking Biden, Hunter Biden, etc. The Trump team would have to completely rewrite Trump's convention speech on the fly.

Regardless of what happens to Biden, Trump's big speech will be extemporaneous rambling about his very stable golf game, the cleanest airports in history, BFF tough guy Kim Jong Un, his immunity to fire all New York judges (except for Judy and Jeanine), not raping porn stars, the freedom to abort incest fetuses when your daughter is still in high school (like the Virgin Mary did in the Bible), and his most secure border wall and/or Berlin wall that Democrats tore down brick by brick.

Fuck George Clooney!

R226 In fact in most of Trump's most formal speeches he reads from the teleprompter - which is what he'll do at the convention. It keeps him on the reservation but it also makes him fucking boring and exposes his crackpot policy ideas.

God I hope Biden does step down, if he is going to, an hour before Trump's speech. Epic fuckery.

R227 Who raised many millions for Joe. Did you contribute? Or do you just like to post on social media. I've given money and canvassed, even though I am an old fart.

Isn't Clooney's wife working on negotiations with Israel over Gaza?

Is this palace backstabbing shit?

Yes, R230, Clooney lulled Biden into complacency by headlining an event that raised $28 million for his campaign coffers just so it would that much more painful when he stabbed him in the back today.

R231 Such bullshit isn't helping. Biden at the fundraiser was unable to speak coherently (see reports other than Clooney's - like the Pod Save America guys) and the hope was, "well, he'll rest and be better" and then the debate.

You guys just don't get it... unless something unpredicted happens, we are on the verge of an historic landslide loss to the worst American politician ever... That's what's motivating Clooney et. al. Would we have won with 2020 Biden? I absolutely believe we would have. That's not who is running now.

R231 And right, here's 28 million. That's what traitors do... with the intent to "lull him into complacency"... you are raising 28 mil so your guy can be tricked into complacency.

Stop this insanity. Argue your case as to why Biden, this Biden, can beat Trump. I'll listen. But this other garbage is just money in Trump's bank.

In 12 months he will have full on dementia. If I were his child I would be frightened for my father and deciding worriedly what kind of care he would shortly need.

I'd get him out of there and take care of him. Biden's entire family is showing themselves to be a clusterfuck of very selfish people not thinking of their husband or father and his health needs at all.

R232/233, check your sarcasm meter.

Senator Welch is the first democratic senator calling for Biden to step down.

[quote]Biden's entire family is showing themselves to be a clusterfuck of very selfish people not thinking of their husband or father and his health needs at all.

How very dare they, r234!

Biden seems desperate right now, calling delegates. No one around him is telling him the truth.

Of course he's desperate, as soon as he gets out of office his wife and son will be arrested.

Oh, shut up, r239.

You're insane. Take your meds.

Top election predictor: TRUMP LIKELY WINNER if Biden is replaced

Allan Lichtman: "Won't somebody please shit in my mouth!"

It must be so hard for Joe to let go. But at 81, why is he holding on? It only can be ego and delusion, since he would be 86 (if still alive) at the end of his term. Time to relax Joe, get hammered on the beach, and then wake up to your beloved ice cream.

Joe is getting very threatening if he is removed. He is going mad besides getting mad.

He is talking like he will take down the party if he is not the nominee. Totally nuts.

I do, R227.

R244 which is more evidence it’s time to go.

Hakeem has to go the White House and tell him he should step aside because there isn’t enough support for him.

[quote]r244 = He is talking like he will take down the party if he is not the nominee. Totally nuts.

Oh noes, r244...

[quote] Joe is getting very threatening if he is removed. He is going mad besides getting mad. He is talking like he will take down the party if he is not the nominee. Totally nuts.

He’s gone from Hitlerian bunker mentality to embracing a scorched earth policy.

What time is his press conference tomorrow? I’m 😱 scared

5:30 pm EST

You Biden haters are nuts. Joe’s threatening to take down the party? The Democratic Party wouldn’t exist if Joe didn’t win that election. Trump would have banished it from the ballot by now and jailed all of the Democratic leaders. No one would be allowed to run against him after he suspended the constitution with the help of his rightwing Supreme Court.

No one hates Joe. We just want him and you to face reality.

How about you face my ass and plant a nice wet one for me?

R252 Not Biden haters, at all. He's the best President of my lifetime. I respect and admire Joe so much. And he's taking the party to an historic loss. He needs to pass the torch, and do so with honor and integrity.

Everybody who's seriously calling for Biden to withdraw needs to spell out a detailed, document plan on a. how to shift $100 million of Biden/Harris campaign finances to Candidate X; b. how to negotiate switching ballots in all 50 states over to Candidate X without tossing the entire election into court.

Otherwise,

[bold]SHUT

YOUR

STUPID

IGNORANT

MOUTH.[/bold]

Seriously. Wishing for puppies and rainbows for November 2024 if the DNC finds the magic unicorn candidate everybody likes is clinically insane.

Thank you, r256.

R256 You haven't been paying attention, apparently. There have been exhaustive reviews on what would happen to the $$ (I guess about 91mil in the accounts as of this week).

If it's Kamala, it's seamless. She gets the $ immediately.

If it's somebody else, it's more problematic. Likely the $ is donated to PAC, not directly to candidate (like Shapiro or Newsom, for example).

Also... ballots are not produced by the states until after the convention. Biden is not the Dem Party candidate yet, he is the presumptive candidate. All printing and officially approved ballots, state by state, gets done after the convention. (Except for Ohio, who has intentionally put their deadline for the convention, just to fuck with Biden/or whoever the Dem candidate is).

[quote] how to negotiate switching ballots in all 50 states over to Candidate X

This would only be an issue if the Democrats nominate Biden and then later decide to switch him out for someone else. As I understand it, there are no ballots to "switch" because no one has yet been nominated, so the ballots haven't been printed. The earliest ballot deadline is in Ohio, which is Aug. 7, which is why the Democrats want to do a virtual roll call to finalize the nominee before the convention. Most states' ballots won't be printed until September. Worst case scenario is that Biden's replacement wouldn't appear on the Ohio ballot. But Ohio is pretty much a lost cause for Democrats this year anyway.

[quote] without tossing the entire election into court.

It's possible that Republicans might try to challenge all of this in court. But again, as long as Biden is replaced before the official nominating process takes place, any lawsuit would be dismissed. From the attached Washington Post article:

[quote] Experts said Republicans could try to object to Biden’s replacement in court. But if he drops out before the convention and delegates vote on someone else as the Democrats’ presidential pick, they said, any challenge to placing that person on the ballot would immediately be dismissed. If Biden were to drop out after becoming the Democratic nominee, the legal landscape is a bit less clear.

R256 Also, I don't want you to shut your fucking mouth. I want you to express your opinions thoroughly, I would suggest you listen to others' opinions too, who may pose different ideas.

When this disruption over the Dem selection of candidate is over (I am hoping by next week, but maybe not until the convention), we need TO COME TOGETHER, and do everything we can to beat Trump and save the Republic.

A little background from a MI election official on why "just swapping the candidate" is clinically insane.

R262 She's a county clerk. Axelrod, who has run a successful national Presidential campaign twice, disagrees.

[quote] A little background from a MI election official on why "just swapping the candidate" is clinically insane.

The election official says that Michigan law requires presidential and VP candidates to be certified to the state within one business day of the party's convention. She says the deadline for the Democrats would be Aug. 26. And she says military and overseas ballots must go out by Sept. 21. In other words, there is no issue in Michigan unless the Democrats were to nominate Biden at the convention and then replace him later.

Then, she says, "My cursory understanding of other states is that the deadline may already have passed for some states, or may be in the VERY near future." Here, she is just stupid. Her "cursory understanding" is wrong. Ohio has the earliest deadline for certifying the candidates for their ballots -- Aug. 7.

Ballots have not yet been printed anywhere because there is not yet a nominee. There are no ballots that need to be "switched."

R256.

As Democrats we have always taken success and shit on it, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Biden did a fantastic job as POTUS, and for this we say, t hanks but here we are about 4 months before an election, you have a outstanding record of achievement, but OMG we just noticed about two weeks ago that fuck, you're getting old. You walk old. You talk old and damn if you don't get enough sleep you get brain fog. So you need to drop out. George Clooney, who sold his Italian Villa on Lake Como so he could buy one in France, and who has an estate in Surrey in the UK where he lives 90% of the time, he thinks you need to drop out. So does Rob Reiner. You remember Rob Reiner? And Seth Moulton. Yeah. Seth is a Congressman. He just got an interview with Anderson Cooper of all people on CNN! He's hit the big time! He's that guy that challenged Pelosi for Speaker that time because he thought she was too old, and he got his ass handed to him? Handful of members of Congress. So like there's more than 200 Democratic members of the House and 50 Democratic Senators? And maybe 8-10 have come out asking for you to drop out. Maybe they want attention, because they are not names that come to mind readily. But, hey.

Jesus Christ, the term "Mighty Joe Biden" has never been lamer.

. . .

If Joe does a David Koresh, goodbye to Democrat voters. Millions will sit out the election in protest and will also stop giving money.

Even Dana Perino on “The Five” on Fox thinks Biden should somehow cancel his Thursday afternoon presser..

R266 Democrats begged and pleaded with him not to debate Trump. You can't actually win against someone who will tell any lie with confidence and self-belief if you dn't have the power to physically intimidate him and Joe does not have that power. I t is BIDEN who snatched defeat from victory. He didn't have to do anything. He didn't even have to campaign himsel.f

Seth Moulten and George Clooney have spoken, people. Biden should resign ASAP!

[quote] Democrats begged and pleaded with him not to debate Trump.

No, they didn’t. They expected Mighty Joe Biden to wipe the floor with Trump and were screaming that Trump wouldn’t show.

[quote] Not Biden haters, at all. He's the best President of my lifetime.

Oh, Jesus Christ. What are you, two?!

Does anyone think that all the Obama people are piling on to get Biden out so Hillary can be brought in as last minute savior candidate? I’m starting to think it could happen. There’s a poll showing she and Harris ticket beating Trump.

^ Well if there's a poll, it must be valid.

[QUOTE] Does anyone think that all the Obama people are piling on to get Biden out so Hillary can be brought in as last minute savior candidate?

The only person the Obama people hate more than Joe right now is Hillary Clinton. Nobody wants Hillary, other than Donald Trump who would love to beat her again.

STREISAND 2024

Knowles-Carter/Pitt 24

IF President Biden steps aside, anybody who thinks VICE-PRESIDENT Kamala Harris is going to the back of the bus instead of to the top of the ticket is delusional.

Whom would you choose, r274, and when were you born?

I'm 1949, so I've got: Truman; Eisenhower; JFK; LBJ; Nixon; Ford; Carter; Reagan; Bush 41; Clinton; Bush 43; Obama; Trump; Biden.

Low points: Dropping the Atomic bomb; the Korean Conflict; Vietnam; Kent State; Watergate; Whip Inflation Now; Oil Crisis; Iranian Embassy hostages; Trickle Down economics; Iran-Contra; Rwanda; Impeachment; 9/11; S&L Crisis; Bank Bail-out; Covid-19.

Much is up for discussion and judgment, of course, but I don't think the Biden years are as grim.

[quote] Everybody who's seriously calling for Biden to withdraw needs to spell out a detailed, document plan on ... how to negotiate switching ballots in all 50 states over to Candidate X without tossing the entire election into court.

Trump HASN'T EVEN PICKED A RUNNING MATE, so there's no way the presidential ballots could already have been printed. Ballots don't get printed until after the candidates are nominated at the conventions. There are no ballots to "switch." Yet R256 gets 5 W&W's for spewing such obvious bullshit and has the audacity to call everyone else ignorant.

[quote]Trump MISSING, Melania MISSING, Biden has 18 public events

Even this stinking turd of a man is smart enough --for once-- to set aside his pride and need for attention to let Biden hang himself by his own rope. He did it at the debate, he's done it since allowing all the unfavorable light to be shined upon Biden and almost none upon himself.

For once he doesn't have to lie and connive and cheat and bribe, he just sits back and lets the limelight shine very, very badly upon Biden. It's the best possible gift for Trump, now in its Denial and Digging in Deeper stages.

If Biden were up to it, he could have reversed the damage from the debate with a great recovery at single unscripted event. He hasn’t.

I’m skeptical of Harris’ chances. There is nothing worse than “‘my turn” candidates. But even she could at least put up a fight, rather than trying to convince the American people she is not senile.

I just want to point out that not all of us pro-Biden posters are the same poster. My anger, like much anger in general, stems from fear.

I've come to the vacillating moment, and mentioned that Joe's post-debate assertion that Philly voters helped him with his Delaware Senator campaign was not good. At all.

I am a "vote for a dead dog before a Republican" Democrat, and have been my entire life.

Will we, can we, rally 'round Kamala sufficiently in time and numbers to defeat the forces of Fascism, ignorance, bigotry, and the rest of The Usual Gang of Trumpian Suspects?

I cast my first vote on November 5, 1968, my 19th birthday, only to see Nixon win.

If there is any justice to the Universe, my vote this year, on my 75th birthday, will add to a Democratic victory.

Tucker Carlson is going around saying Nixon was the most popular US president ever. Total lie of course. James Monroe was.

Tucker who?

Sorry, we don't know him. - Fox

[quote]There is nothing worse than “‘my turn” candidates.

There's nothing worse than that stupid argument. Kamala is the most well position to win if not Biden. She has has experience as a VP which every few can claim. Plus she is the only one that will have access to the 100's of millions their campaign raised. Has nothing to do with who's turn it is, she the logic choice just given the facts as well. Anyone else will be an even bigger uphill battle.

Nothing worse than a nonexistent unicorn candidate that has not been named wants to even do the job and has the money to do it.

[quote]She has has experience as a VP which every few can claim. Plus she is the only one that will have access to the 100's of millions their campaign raised.

Much of the money is already gone. Biden has spent heavily in the past month with nothing to show for it except collapsing poll numbers. Biden’s spend in swing states dwarfs Trumps while he continues to drop in each one. I don’t live in a swing state and since Biden’s debate, I have been subject to an unceasing barrage of Biden ads asking for donations on social media and YouTube. He is spending that money so Kamala cannot have it.

WTF are you talking about R289, Biden has more than 240 Million in his war chest. That's hardly "much of it is gone" BS narrative you are trying to push.

Biden has spent 64.2 million in the past month while Trump has spent 14.6. Many of these markets have no rational basis for ad spends with Biden spending 27 million on Sunbelt states alone where he has been underwater for months.

Joe is the first president running against a CRIMINAL Republican candidate, a corrupt Republican Party not held accountable for their Sedition, a corrupt Supreme Court, AND a right-wing corporate media who is able to pay a$787M fine for lying to the American people, that CONTINUES to lie to the American People.

Joe Biden CANNOT DO THIS ALONE.

[quote]Joe Biden CANNOT DO THIS ALONE.

Be President, go to the bathroom, it’s all the same tbh.

Bidenists: Joe Biden CANNOT DO THIS ALONE.

Biden: I alone can fix it.

Stop being a dismissive, game show cunt.

Who's claiming he can do it alone you silly Troll? Biden will have the same success team moving forward that he's had the last 3 years accomplishing more Democratic goals than any other president in the last 50 years.

[quote] Stop being a dismissive, game show cunt.

Learn better English if you want to troll on American message boards.

[quote]NATO officials are both saddened at how Biden’s fortunes have turned and frustrated that the storyline has distracted from what was to be a celebratory summit. They are also increasingly resigned to his defeat this November, which they fear could halt or reverse the 32-member alliance’s recent momentum, threatening Ukraine’s ability to fend off Russia’s onslaught and the broader stability that has been the bedrock of the organization since its Cold War creation.

Goodbye Ukraine! Be best!

Then stop being a dismissive game-show cunt.

Better English, asshole? And I am an American.

But I am not the Troll here.

[quote]Then stop being a dismissive game-show cunt.

I wasn’t talking about the hyphen, you freaking dumbass, which has made it even more grammatically incorrect. “Game show” is not used as an adjective that way in America.

🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶

🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶

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[quote]“Game show” is not used as an adjective that way in America.

Go ask Mark Burnett.

You are wrong.

Is Reality Show Host HOAX better?

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The Apprentice was a GAME SHOW.

Trump is a Game Show Host.

You are a game show CUNT.

When Trump was killing people holding infected ships offshore because he didn't want his number to suffer, he tipped his hand that "his numbers" were more important than killing sick Americans.

Trump is a game show HOAX who is also a cunt.

[quote] You are a game show CUNT.

Again, this is not an expression used in America.

Russian Trolls all over the DL at this hour. They suck at their job and just wasting time. If I were Putin I would have them "accidentally"fall out of that Troll Farm Window.

Is there a way to contact the head of the Troll farm and report their lazy asses?

Anyone else sick of hearing about "Russian trolls"?

NYT Editorial Board: Trump Is “Simply Unfit To Lead”

"Mr. Trump has shown a character unworthy of the responsibilities of the presidency. He has demonstrated an utter lack of respect for the Constitution, the rule of law and the American people. Instead of a cogent vision for the country’s future, Mr. Trump is animated by a thirst for political power: to use the levers of government to advance his interests, satisfy his impulses and exact retribution against those who he thinks have wronged him.

He is, quite simply, unfit to lead. We urge voters to see the dangers of a second Trump term clearly and to reject it. The stakes and significance of the presidency demand a person who has essential qualities and values to earn our trust, and on each one, Donald Trump fails. When someone fails so many foundational tests, you don’t give him the most important job in the world."

r302, I am an American. I use it all the time.

If I can call you a game show addict, I can call you a game show cunt.

Not even a good diversion.

Trump is a game show cunt.

Everybody knows Trump is shit. Why do people keep bringing him up? This has been discussed for years and years. We are not saying he will be better than a senile Biden who more often than not is giving the bewildered old man 1,000 yard stare when he is challenged by a complex question. Did he say he was the first black female president? I keep hearing this but I haven't found proof. But if he did say it I wouldn't be surprised.

And the trolls saying he is fit as a fiddle mentally and physically must only be watching his rah rah cheerleader shouting 'I will not give up the nomination! I will win.' It is the only time he manages to pull it together simply because of hearing it for a lifetime and repeating it like a parrot.

[quote] Does anyone think that all the Obama people are piling on to get Biden out so Hillary can be brought in as last minute savior candidate? I’m starting to think it could happen. There’s a poll showing she and Harris ticket beating Trump.

No such poll exists.

[quote]Does anyone think that all the Obama people are piling on to get Biden out so Hillary can be brought in as last minute savior candidate?

No one sane.

This afternoon’s Biden solo press conference has now been moved from 5:30 PM to 6:30 PM.

[quote]Will we, can we, rally 'round Kamala sufficiently in time and numbers to defeat the forces of Fascism, ignorance, bigotry, and the rest of The Usual Gang of Trumpian Suspects?

In time, R285? If, as you said, Biden might have turned around waivering support in a single debate, do you not think that 15 or 16 or however many weeks is not enough for a candidate who looks healthy, is even reasonably articulate and adept at message, and doesn't have to be ushered on and offstage by Mommy Dr. Jill?

In fact there's much to be said for a new candidate who has not received the relentless day Fox News and social media treatment for 4 years.

Of course Republicans would find faults or simply invent them as they do, but but imagine a candidate who didn't act like he was 106 years old, clever with words and debating and projection a message... 15 weeks+/- is plenty of time.

Until things started to look really bad as the first debate approached, I was hoping that Biden and the Dem party would engineer a fake out where y Biden pretends to be in the running then, surprise, bows out shortly before the convention with a shortlist of viable, not overexposed candidates in order. That would have been ideal.

It could still be ideal.

If Biden cares Amniota about his previous legacy, he'll move out of the way and let someone else in the game.

[quote] This afternoon’s Biden solo press conference has now been moved from 5:30 PM to 6:30 PM.

This is to prove he can still function after 6pm.

The Obamas and Clintons are speaking thru their surrogates, like Axelrod, Carville and Clooney. Both families think that Biden is going to lose and take the party down with him:

Clooney Gave Obama Heads-Up About Biden Op-Ed: Politico Playbook

Ahead of its publication, George Clooney told former President Barack Obama about his plans to pen an op-ed for The New York Times calling on Biden to drop out, sources told Politico Playbook.

While Obama did not weigh in on the text, he also didn't urge Clooney to hold off on going public with his reservations about Biden, Politico's Rachael Bade, Eugene Daniels and Ryan Lizza write, citing sources familiar with the exchange.

I think the president should voluntarily take meaningful cognitive/neurological tests to measure his current functioning, although this would not necessarily alleviate concerns regarding his ability to function in a second term.

I think that [more than] the optics are not good that he has so far refused to do so.

This is not to denigrate the successes in his current term.

If he has no issues, shouldn’t be anything to worry about.

R310 They need to be careful, it might run past his bedtime.

How did our politics, over the long term, reach such a deteriorated point?

The Dems have only until August 7 to resolve this if their candidate is going to be on the Ohio ballot.

R289 Did you even read the article you linked to? This is internet "discourse" now, I guess. Find a headline that aligns with one's views, don't read it, but reference it when trolling on social media.

Biden campaign brought in $38mil the day after the debate, a stunning unprecedented day of fundraising. Then the donations dried up (which is what the article is about). By most sources there is between 90 and 100 mil in the bank now....

... which would be instantly available to Harris, should she replace him. I am grateful to Joe for a very good presidency. And now he needs to pass the torch.

I also wish the "anti-MAGA" coalition wouldn't cut each other to shreds in this current period of figuring out if Biden is still the one who can make the argument against Trump.

Today's WaPo/ABC News poll, showing the race deadlocked, puts a nail in the head - for now at least - to any possibility that Biden will drop out. Trump is so widely reviled that he can still lose this election, even if Biden cannot win it. That assumes Trump doesn't remain holed up at Mar-a-Lago until the election.

R300, Trust me; you're wrong. And the hyphen is correct.

Ken Jennings is a game-show host. Drew Carey is a game-show host. Leah Rimini is a game-show host.

Now, what YOU are, I'll leave to the judgment of others.

R321 why do you lie

R320, And as long as I'm digressing about the English language....It's either:

"Hits the nail on the head." Or

"A nail in the coffin."

The Biden campaign is coming off the rails. The post-debate tailspin continues with the new AP poll showing Joe spiraling out of control into.. a statistical tie with Trump, exactly where they were before the debate.

If he stays, I'm worried about his performance in the upcoming debates.

Prepare yourselves for the upcoming GQP convention hatefest. It'll remind voters of how truly awful tRump and the Republicans are.

Check the example sentences, r322, and let's call it even.

(However, the hyphen serves to clarify, as a "game show host" could be one who is up for anything, "game.")

Let me clear something up. Carville does not speak for the Clintons, neither does George Stephanopoulos. And David Axelrod parted company with Obama after he left the White House and took a job as pundit on the network circuit. But most assuredly Axelrod broke with Obama when Axelrod shit all over Hillary Clinton in 2016, and Barack was working his ass off for her. Once any of these former aides to presidents get a job on network TV the usually don't carry any water for their former colleagues or boss. Unless they work for Fox.

The first-term member from Grand Rapids is the first frontline member of Congress from a 2024 battleground state and the first freshman to urge the 81-year-old president to step aside, saying he should pass the torch and "allow a new leader to step up."

Joe fully intends to pass the torch—after he wins the election. If he and his family determine that he cannot run any further, then he can pass the torch to Kamala at the convention. A nice smooth handoff that avoids a messy open convention, with the key to his campaign funds given to her. That’s the only way it should be done.

[quote] Joe fully intends to pass the torch—after he wins the election.

In a scenario where he wins the election, he has to, he’ll be dead.

R330 Joe will pass the torch after the election, which he will do at the convention, which is before the election.

I'm glad we're all thinking so clearly these days.

Several of President Joe Biden’s closest allies, including three people who are directly involved in efforts to re-elect him, told NBC News they now see his chances of winning as zero — and the likelihood of him taking down fellow Democratic candidates growing.

“He needs to drop out,” one Biden campaign official said. “He will never recover from this.”

[quote]Anyone else sick of hearing about "Russian trolls"?

YES WE ARE, stop picking on us = Troll Farm Employee

Now lets get back to dividing America by posting fake outrage and Biden must go articles and keep seeding decent for stupid Americans to fight over.

[quote] Now lets get back to dividing America by posting fake outrage and Biden must go articles

I’m surprised you aren’t claiming that all those posted articles from the top news outlets in the country are fake. Was that a bridge too far for you?

TONIGHT!

PRESIDENT BIDEN NEWS CONFERENCE.

6:30 p.m. ET. MSNBC.

Can its importance BE overstated (Chandler Bing voice)?!

It's interesting how all of these Biden should drop out threads blow up and the threads about tRump and the awful GQP fall by the wayside.

I feel like this video is unironically relevant to not only Biden, but a lot of his most fervent supporters in this thread who are, clearly (and some admittedly) his peers. Say what you will, but the biggest obstruction to progress in one's personal life and society as a whole has historically been the elderly.

They cling to retain control of everything and refuse to designate tasks to obviously more capable individuals because, I swear, something happens to the elderly brain once a person hits 70. Stubbornness gets dialed to over 9000 and you can't tell them anything. Elderly people are also more prone to anxiety because they feel more vulnerable. And as a result, they allow fear to rule their decisions. One of those fears is change and uncertainty. Their nerves literally cannot handle it.

R338 - yes, I see this often, even with my good friends in their 50s and 60s. One of my best friends has dug in regarding Biden remaining as the nominee, and he's going frantic with fear and anger trying to convince everyone around him, while also denigrating and putting people down who disagree with him even a tiny bit. He is as bad as the MAGA cult. He's absorbed and internalized the propaganda from sites like Talking Points Memo and the Daily Beast. Thankfully, he's no longer posting from Daily Kos. I worry about his mental health as he's also prone to profound depressive incidents. A Trump presidency will send him over an edge. All I can do is be there for him as a friend, as I dearly love him, even if I quietly disagree with his perspectives.

[quote] TONIGHT! PRESIDENT BIDEN NEWS CONFERENCE.

Everyone will be watching tonight's press conference to see whether Biden is coherent or makes a fool of himself. No one actually cares about the NATO summit itself. That's the problem for Biden from here until November. All of the focus will now be on how he looks and sounds, not on his actual message, which will make it hard to energize voters and beat Trump.

R340 is absolutely correct. Biden has to be near perfect mentally every time he is in public from now until November. It's likely an impossible standard for him to meet. The Democrats would be crazy not to get rid of him while there is still time to do so.

R304, by screaming "Russian trolls", they don't have to turn on their brains to consider the possibility that people are right that Biden being replaced is the best choice for the Democrats. You cannot argue with someone who thinks everyone who disagrees with him is an agent. It will never get anywhere.

[quote] It's interesting how all of these Biden should drop out threads blow up and the threads about tRump and the awful GQP fall by the wayside.

Almost as if the number of Biden threads and interest correlated with the understandably huge volume of coverage about the story by the news media.

No amount of tests is going to turn back Father Time. It’s coming out now that Joe has had MULTIPLE incidents like the debate. It will only get worse.

If there's one thing true in your philosophy, dear Yorick, it is that "the elderly" know what it is to be young, while the young do not know what it is to be old.

For example: If anyone young thinks that a person in their 70s is a "peer" of someone in their 80s---that is to say, the post-WW2 Generation as "peers" to the "Silent Generation"---nope, not correct. But they'll learn, if they're lucky.

r345 Bro. If you're 10 years or less apart from someone, that is your peer. It's not based on generation, but your age group. A 75 year old and an 81 year old will both be in their 80s in 5 years. Tf are you even talking about, right now?

Joe is a FIGUREHEAD. The President signs LEGISLATION or NOT.

This is a battle between 70% of America who like things Pre Dobbs, Pre Citizens United, Pre Shelby County and 30% of the crazy White People who think that GOD gave them America.

I know one thing, I better not see any of you Biden haters celebrating Joe’s victory on here this November. Your asses are NOT invited to the party.

R348 This is my worry, that what you've just posted is a real view by people.

Please pay attention: I am Biden supporter, I gave $ to him in 2020 and now in 2024 (multiple times). If we get through August, the convention is over, and Biden is still the nominee I will support him, give $, and (already signed up) phone canvass for him and other Democrats. AND I think it's time for him to pass the torch, and I believe that a younger candidate (I am fine with Harris) can have better chance to beat Trump.

If Joe insists on running, and he wins? Jesus fucking christ will I be happy and celebrate.

So, please, understand. We all want the same outcome, we disagree on the best way to get there.

Six ways Biden's Presidency could end tonight IF: #1. He shits on the floor #2. Starts ranting and raving about UFOs. #3 Forgets Jill's name #4 starts talking about a conversation he had with Beau...last night...#5. he stops talking and start shaking the hands of the reporters asking them which House district they represent #6. If he has lapses...long pauses of silence with his mouth hanging open and he's drooling.

Chris Matthews makes sense

Chris Matthews is a loon.

Why do you think he lost his MSNBC show?

Chris Matthews is from another time. Joe Biden 2016 or 2020 could make this work. The one we have now can’t.

Trump is not far behind in cognitive function, but that won’t be the story unless there is a contrast.

Breaking:

NBC News confirms: The Biden campaign is quietly assessing the viability of Vice President Kamala Harris' candidacy against Donald Trump in a new head-to-head poll. @MSNBC

To see if she can win or to prove that she can't?

R355 it means they’re exploring options.

R351 He makes important points... but doesn't address the issue at hand: can Biden prosecute the argument against Trump and win the election.

All the Biden loyalists keep making the point about what a great guy Biden is, what a long history of service he has, how he is prototypically the real Democrat.... all of that is true. No one disputes that (or I don't). But is Biden, July 2024 capable of beating Trump? That is really in question.

Why, Russian trolls would NEVER try and influence online conversation.

Thank you R358.

Biden is and has always been a liar. He is power-hungry and spent his whole life trying to be president. He lies about stupid shit like his uncle being eaten by cannibals and other equally stupid shit. I have never liked him. I will not vote for him again.

They made it seem like Biden and Obama were pals but now I learn Obama never even invited Joe upstairs in the White House. Obama seems like a cold fish.

R361 Obama also said "Never underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up" Although I don't think he used the word fuck but I forgot what word he used. I'm having another Biden moment.

R360 Biden is the most effective President of my lifetime. And he needs to pass the torch...now.

[quote] I know one thing, I better not see any of you Biden haters celebrating Joe’s victory on here this November. Your asses are NOT invited to the party.

My view has been evolving the last two weeks. I’ve come to accept that Biden will stay, although I believe that will cause the Democrats to lose the White House.

Chris Matthews thinks Biden will win because he's the comeback kid who always proves his doubters wrong. That might be true if it were only a matter of Biden being behind in the polls. But the issue here isn't about politics. It's whether Biden is mentally fit to run for another term. If he is, great. But if not, it's hard to see how Biden can make a comeback, no matter how great his political instincts might be. It would be like a football quarterback who loses his arms and legs but still insists he can lead his team to victory.

R362 He didn’t want to be a house of Cards you stankin ass bitch. We now see Biden is a maniac.

Biden would publicly contradict Obama several times during his presidency. I remember it well, and I thought it was disrespectful. A VP's job is to support the President. One time was when Obama was trying to reassure people to keep traveling during some outbreak, and Biden turned around and had to tell the press that he wouldn't want anyone he knew getting on a plane.

Of course, you would hear the "lovable old Joe" BS as an excuse, but he's always given off vibes of someone who thinks he's the smartest person in the room. It also reeks of a little bit of resentment because he had to settle for being VP after trying several times. But Barack really helped improve Biden's reputation, which prior to that wasn't so great. He really would be wise to seek Barack's advice.

Sorry my comment was meant for r361.

Biden has been a much better President than Obama who defines empty suit. But Biden is 82. No one can solve that problem.

R369 Don’t lie again.

Obamacare

Freedom of Marriage Act

Thank Pelosi for that. Obama had a Dem Congress and got very little through. He also was above politics and let the GOP take over one state legislature after another. He couldn’t get RBG to retire and let the Supreme Court become MAGA central. Never was tough enough with Russia or Iran. He gets an A for charisma and that’s about it.

Look, Obama was a cautious moderate. He governed from the center. Biden had to push him on Gay marriage, and on Healthcare. Biden and Pelosi got him to agree to try it after Obama's staff told him it would never pass. Now Biden urged caution on the Bin Laden hit. He was unsure Bin Laden was at the location and didn't think they had enough information to hit it. Biden excels on domestic issues and always has. There's a lot of nonsense out herer about their relationship, but Obama was close to Biden even knowing his quirks and limitations. When Beau was sick, Obama loaned Biden the money so he didn't have to mortgage his house. Joe has done a remarkable job. Hei s a consequential President and history will be kind to him. I really hate this bullying and rumor mongering by the media, the back benchers and some Hollywood assholes. You cannot force a President out of office. Even Kissinger and Haig knew that. This has to be Biden's decision and his family and inner circle of staffers have to buy in to it.

R371 I instructed you not to lie. So obey.

Saved the car industry

Killed Osama

Diverted the home loan crisis.

BREAKING NEWS

R374 laughing. This is unreal. Every fkin day. The man’s mind is gone. Fuck Jill Biden.

What’s holding up Joe’s press conference, diarrhea?

[quote] What’s holding up Joe’s press conference, diarrhea?

Thursday is tapioca night.

These events never start on time.

R374 Maybe this needs a new thread. Good grief.

Mighty Joe’s press conference looks like it’s going pretty good to me.

Joe is killing it with talking about substance while not having to deal with a bump stock of Trump's lies.

[quote]Biden had to push him on Gay marriage,

Obama was for it before he ran for President. When Biden was against it.

Biden didn't push him on anything. That's a lie.

Bill: Silence.

HRC: Silence.

Obama: Silence.

Kamala: Silence.

Deafening.

VP Harris has not been silent.

R385, She was sent out of town for the NATO Summit.

He was okay but he still had plenty of flubs. He can make it though the election but he cannot make it through four more years.

And a decisive leader he is not and never was. He claims to have seen the threat to democracy before all the press but SCOTUS has given him absolute power. Why hasn't he used it to stop them?

[quote] He can make it though the election but he cannot make it through four more years.

That would make for great Biden campaign signs and bumper stickers: "FOUR MORE YEARS," except "YEARS" has been crossed out and replaced with "MONTHS" and a question mark.

Once he makes it through the election, he can go back to quietly moving legislation everyone thought was dead and impossible to pass. He won't have to do 14 time zones in 14 days after he is elected.

His work load as a candidate is horrific, his workload as a president is what he was designed to do.

Thank God, the House Republicans have shut the fuck up, for a while.

I wonder why?

All those Democrats who want Joe off the ticket are FUCKING LAZY.

Down ticket cry babies who do not know hardball politics.

And if they run away from Biden, they are running with Trump.

I hope Joe points out her is the president of the working man and the last time Trump was in Michigan, Biden was supporting the autoworker's union strike and Trump flew in for a rally to support a non-union, Right To Work For Nothing, subcontractor.

Biden needs to wring Trump's balls so hard that Donald's screams can be heard by the idiots in Ohio.

Plus, Biden can address P-2025 and ask if there are any non Christians in Michigan that want a forced conversion to Christianity.

He needs to ask THEM if they have read P-2025.

"make it through the election..."?

How about making it through today and tomorrow and then WINNING the election?

Can Biden defenders read? The internal polling indicates that he is losing NOW and it's trending the same or lower.

Can Biden haters Read?

If the election were held today, who would you support:

Biden 50% / Trump 48%

Hard to reconcile these most recent national polls with the reports that Biden’s support is cratering in even states heretofore deemed safe.

It's easy r396. "Reports" are not votes.

Reports are nice way to say we have gossip on X candidate. They are meaningless in terms of predicting what the mood of the actual voters are thinking.

Republicans know that Joe is the only Democrat who can defeat their disgusting, bought and paid for, criminal candidate.

They know they have to tear him apart BEFORE the Democratic convention because once Joe is firmly and without doubt the Democratic candidate, they cannot win 2024 with Dobbs, Abortion, and Project 2025's enslavement manifesto.

The smart Democrats are the ones who are either supporting him or saying nothing. That's politics.

The Marist poll is the only one showing Biden ahead, and it's within the margin of error. All the other recent polls show Trump leading or a tie. The RealClearPolitics average as of today is Trump ahead by 2.7 points. The national polls don't mean much, though. It's the state-level polls that matter because it's the electoral college that will determine the winner.

[quote]The national polls don't mean much, though.

Tell that to the Russian / MAGA trolls how post here every day poll after poll, after poll.

And nobody is pointing out that Republicans are delighted at Democrats tearing each other apart before the Dem's convention.

Because after the convention they are fucked.

[quote] The national polls don't mean much, though. It's the state-level polls that matter because it's the electoral college that will determine the winner.

And I should have added that the state polls are looking very grim. The link at R399 shows Trump leading in nearly all the battleground states: Arizona, Michigan, Georgia, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. If the election were held today, Trump would win in a landslide.

I never like Biden and I think he's totally senile but I think these people like George Clooney , Rob Reiner and others who are trying to get rid of him but at first saying what a terrific person he is then right after that saying has to go are FULL OF SHIT. Biden says he wants to stay - who are they to tell him to leave. They are just terrified they he will lose the election to that buffoon Trump. It feels like a COUP. A bloodless COUP. Trying to push a sitting president out of office.

[quote] Can Biden haters Read?

I hate the cruelty of aging. I hate the cruelties and fears of Republicans and their agenda, one that shields and nurtures their cruelties and fears.

I don't hate Biden.

This thread is infested with Repugs, including the aghast concern troll at r403

R404 Thanks, so many of these posts on DL and other social media scare the shit out of me - are folks really this crazy, or are they just bots and trolls.

I have pondered our fate (I thought Biden was the only one can beat Trump) - but with Trump's own inanity at the debate, seeing him appear so old and unhinged on the stump, the exposure of Project 2025 and it's extremist proposals that Americans will not accept, and seeing how the polls show the great majority of Americans hate Trump (though also aren't happy with Biden) - I now think that someone else can beat Trump, and even if Trump wins the pushback by those who didn't vote will compromise his second term, make him an ineffective President, even with the SCOTUS in his pocket.

Trump will break things, hurt a lot of people, in a second term. He won't break the Republic.

R397, Emerson came out with a poll yesterday showing Biden behind in every battleground state. Polls, not reports.

[QUOTE] If the election were held today, Trump would win in a landslide.

Good thing the election isn’t being held today. Or tomorrow. Or next week. In fact last I checked it’s FOUR MONTHS AWAY.

Thank you, R406. I see my plan for complete and total disinformation and misinformation is working quite nicely.

I'll have my entire empire back to its pre-1989 days in a year, all thanks to idiotic, stupid, gullible Americans who will believe anything they're spoon fed.

New NPR/Marist poll: Mighty Joe Biden gained ground after the debate and is now ahead 2 points nationally, hitting the 50% mark. And no other Dem candidate fares better.

Biden hating concern trolls hardest hit.

[quote]Obama was for it before he ran for President

Can you cite anything prior to 2006 showing Obama was publicly in favor of gay marriage? Because that's not what he wrote in "The Audacity of Hope," and he was in favor of "strong civil unions" circa 2007. In 2008, he said "I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman."

Yet Clyburn was on TV this morning saying he’s still backing Biden, so who knows.

I'm R410 and hit 'post' too soon. Here was the supposed 'gotcha' about Obama and gay marriage, taken from the Time link:

[quote]In one campaign questionnaire that Obama filled out when running for the Illinois state Senate, he states that he supports domestic partnerships and adding sexual orientation to the Human Rights Act, the state’s civil rights law. He also says that he supports affirmative action for gays and lesbians.

[quote]In another questionnaire for Chicago LGBT newspaper Outlines, Obama says he supports same-sex marriage. In 2009, a copy of his typed responses was unearthed and printed in the Windy City Times. “I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages,” reads the questionnaire bearing his signature at the bottom. Later, Obama aides will dispute that he actually filled out the questionnaire himself.

The order in which these things happened makes it unclear which position was accurate. But by 1998, he was again answering 'no' on questionnaires and explained himself publicly many times.

R409, one poll out of many that suggest otherwise. You're going to act shocked in November and blame everyone except the people who had the perfect opportunity (the convention) to go with someone that could cream Trump (almost anyone else), but chose not to aren't you.

I think it's quite possible, even probable, Biden could still win the national popular vote. What's disturbing Dem party officials, office holders, and some of the rank in file, is polls show losing the swing states AND swing districts in blue states, i.e. losing the Senate and not taking back the House. Trump with the Congress and Supreme Court in his control is not a good thing. That's what "Biden haters" are concerned about.

R413, just as it was thought only someone like Biden could beat Trump in '20, I don't think the answer this cycle is "almost anyone else." Especially at this late point. Even more so if it's someone other than Harris who would have to create an organization from scratch. And someone not already tested on the national stage.

You know the media feeds this but people forget that we in America do not have a national election. We have 50 state wide elections. So a national poll is not the most accurate way to measure support. Oh, it hits a lot of different demographics dividing people by race, age, sexual orientation, levels of education, income, etc. and that's helpful, but to the people on the ground dealing with GOTV, they have internal polling they use to target different pockets of voters. It's a numbers game and now it's down to a science. But these national polls give people a lot to talking about in TV. And they can be persuasive with undecided voters who are "leaning."

I'm no Harris fan at all. However, I think Trump is the only R she could beat, getting just enough to see her as lesser-of-two-evils.

If Biden agrees to withdraw, the convention would be fine with whomever she decides on for veep. Would Biden make a speech endorsing that ticket ... or sulk?

R417 If Biden is going to step down at all, it will be in a way where he "passes the torch" and completely supports the next guy up. I do think there is no way the next guy would not be Harris. I've not been that impressed with her speaking skills until the last week or so. She's sharp. I think folks are underestimating her.

The poetic justice of a Black, immigrant's child, woman... defeating the racist, anti-immigrant con man, who made Choice go away.... is too good for American not to make it happen.

Harris inauguration speech: "I'd like to thank Donald Trump for helping me get this Black job."

538 today has Biden the favorite to win the election. I'm so perplexed.

Harris is unlikable. So my first gut reaction was that she would be skipped. But realistically, skipping her causes a ton of new problems for the Democrats. And the "never Trump" vote would be more fond of someone unlikable than someone with a steep mental decline, I'm sure.

[quote] 538 today has Biden the favorite to win the election. I'm so perplexed.

538 notes that “the 538 election model puts a healthy amount of weight on non-polling factors such as economic growth and political indicators. Today these indicators suggest an outcome closer to a 3-point Biden win — clear in the opposite direction of national polls.”

Their model probably hasn’t been updated to include the dementia factor. Also, I assume that it looks at the current inflation rate rather the cumulative inflation, which is the thing that voters care about.

[quote] And the "never Trump" vote would be more fond of someone unlikable than someone with a steep mental decline, I'm sure.

If you're talking about Never Trump Republicans, I'm not so sure. Biden is seen as a more centrist Dem, so he may be the more appealing candidate for this demographic.

NYT: Donors Freeze Roughly $90 Million as Long as Biden Stays in Race

[quote] New NPR/Marist poll: Mighty Joe Biden gained ground after the debate and is now ahead 2 points nationally, hitting the 50% mark.

I would be wary of that poll, and not just because it always favors Biden. In the 7/10 poll, it has Trump at 48%, which is only .7 off the average for Trump. However, at 50% for Biden, that’s a whopping 5.4% above Biden’s polling average. It looks like Democrats have been given an extra 5%.

Similarly, on the question of job approval, the approval average for Biden is 39.8%. The NPR poll has 45% approval. A 5.2% difference, and again giving Biden an extra 5%.

The original post of this thread was Joe Biden challenging his elite Dem detractors to put up a candidate willing to fight him on the convention floor. So far, nobody has stepped up.

If Joe is so dementia-riddled, and he’s going to sink the entire party in November, then where are the Dem candidates who will challenge him at the convention? Why are your heroes like King Gav and Big Gretch and Mayor Pete so afraid to take this old demented Parkinson’s patient on? According to your cherished polls, Democrats don’t even want Joe anymore. So what’s the problem?

I think the likes of Newsom, Whitmer, et al., are looking to ‘28. They don’t want to be seen as disloyal Dems. And they don’t want to be seen as challenging Harris, if Biden drops out. In the latter case, if Harris runs & loses, they have a clear shot in ‘28, as Harris will not be seen as a viable contender.

Why are they looking to 2028 if Biden is so weak that they can knock him off and take the nomination now? In politics, you strike while the iron is hot. You don’t know what your standing will be in four years.

R423 there's no way to really know that but if it is true and not some more lies and bullshit, fine. In ever election, every campaign donors give or not. They think they call the shots, and some do. Sometimes. WTF ever. But Biden is doing well with fundraising right now. Trump is not. Personally, as the former attorney general of California, I would love to see Kamala make the case against Trump who still has indictments pending. LOL! He would shit a brick of she was POTUS because she would not give an inch. And Kavanaugh and the guys at SCOTUS would be SO pissed off.

The Republican leadership is so hateful and mean towards women and people of color they would stroke out if Kamala was POTUS. It would be worth it.

R427, it’s a lot to ask of a candidate to create an organization & launch a campaign out of whole cloth at this late stage.

r403

[quote]who are they to tell him to leave.

American citizens.

[quote]But Biden is doing well with fundraising right now. Trump is not.

I don't think the latter is true.

[quote]Harris is unlikable.

Same excuse for Hillary and look where THAT got us.

But I see Black men showing up to vote for fuckable Kamala, where they stayed on the couch for Hillary.

Biden is doing what Trump did in 2016, and skipping the chattering classes, and going directly to the 70% of Americans who hate Dobbs, who hate the Supreme Court, and who have voted for Biden before.

Also Biden says some ridiculous things. Vote for me so I can restore a woman’s right to choose. But you are president NOW?

I've had the feeling that the idea all along was to re-elect Biden, then he leaves early to give Democrats the first female president ahead of Republicans. His latest ineloquent episodes seem to be de-railing that. I'm left wondering whether, if Harris is clearly unpopular by 2027 would she run anyway?

One things that for sure if Biden steps down. And I still think there is a good chance he might. The democrats need to nip in there bud Trump and repubs politicizing it. Immediately. Because they will do so. Never underestimate the duplicity of these sociopaths who have been calling Joe a crazy old man for the past 4 years.

[quote]But you are president NOW?

But not the Democratic Senators he needs to make REAL change.

[quote] The Republican leadership is so hateful and mean towards women and people of color they would stroke out if Kamala was POTUS.

Sure, Jan. Keep treating blacks like babies who need to be coddled. You’re exactly what’s wrong with the country. Democrats have low expectations for blacks, which is racist.

[quote]r439 = Democrats have low expectations for blacks, which is racist.

How to say you're retarded without saying....

[QUOTE]Biden is doing what Trump did in 2016, and skipping the chattering classes, and going directly to the 70% of Americans who hate Dobbs, who hate the Supreme Court, and who have voted for Biden before.

It’s called POWER to the PEOPLE, not George fucking Clooney.

[quote] it’s a lot to ask of a candidate to create an organization & launch a campaign out of whole cloth at this late stage.

Because Biden out of spite won’t turn his organization over to the replacement?

Meanwhile back on Earth 1, Biden's slightly ahead in national polls.

And Donald stands a significant chance of going to prison.

The press needs to shut the fuck up and get on board.

[quote] Meanwhile back on Earth 1, Biden's slightly ahead in national polls.

Well, on this Earth that DL exists on, Trump is ahead in the average of the national polls.

[quote] I think the likes of Newsom, Whitmer, et al., are looking to ‘28. They don’t want to be seen as disloyal Dems. And they don’t want to be seen as challenging Harris, if Biden drops out. In the latter case, if Harris runs & loses, they have a clear shot in ‘28, as Harris will not be seen as a viable contender.

In addition, if they enter the race with these disadvantages & then lose, they'll be seen as damaged goods in the party & will have no presidential future.

But they wouldn’t be challenging JFK here, R445. It’s not some colossal feat. We’re talking about Joe Biden, the demented old bat who’s holding the Democratic Party hostage so he can take it down with him in November. According to the DL Biden Hater Brigade, Democratic voters don’t even want Joe anymore and want him replaced. That’s what all the polls say, right?

So why isn’t anyone stepping up for this easy layup? Knock the old man down at the convention and snatch his crown from him. Gavin the Magnificent can’t take out Joe Biden? Clooney’s ready to start hosting campaign fundraisers for you. You’ll have all the money you need. The mainstream media will endorse you. You’ll have the wind at your sails. So what’s the holdup? Why won’t anyone step to the plate?

They wouldn’t be challenging Biden, R446. That ship set sail long ago. They’d be challenging Harris for the right to take on Trump. From a standing position, no less..

They wouldn’t be challenging Biden, R447? Did I miss the announcement where he withdrew from the race?

[quote] Meanwhile back on Earth 1, Biden's slightly ahead in national polls.

Biden's slightly ahead (within the margin of error) in one national poll, but behind in all the others.

There, I fixed it for you.

Once again, the fantasy football idiots need to outline a detailed plan for funding Candidate X to November (after Biden's campaign funds are refunded to donors and/or frozen in court), how to get Candidate X on the ballot of all 50 states in the face of endless GOP litigation challenges, and get that magical sparkle pony candidate to victory.

Until you can do that, just shut the fuck up. You're spreading noise and panic and fucking little else.

Not taking the bait. It’s been explained many many times on these threads. I’ve yet to hear a detailed plan for how Biden wins.

Nate Silver says Biden only has a 27% chance of winning the electoral college. That is the only important poll to follow. It all comes down to the swing states and even blue states are turning purple.

oh dear

Why is this so difficult for you, R448? The talk of Harris, Whitmer, Newsom, et al., throwing their hats in the ring presupposes that Biden bows out. There has been zero talk of anyone NOW challenging him for the nomination. The only ones who challenged Biden for the nomination were RFK, Jr. (initially), Dean Phillips & Marianne Williamson. And Biden won enough delegates to be the presumptive nominee. A status he currently enjoys.

The Under-45s won't vote for Biden. If you want them to get excited you have to give them a sexy, vibrant candidate who says 'Change' a lot.

r441, it's the reason he brought up the NRA and the slaughter of our children.

R453, Only one voice could persuade Joe to step aside, and it doesn't belong to any "super friend."

^ Beau?

Yikes:

Yeah, Beau, r458. Got it in one.

Ruh Roh. Speaking of Michigan, Hilary Scholten was just with Jill Biden a week ago and now she wants Joe out. Whitmer backed him after the debate but they got to her too. I can see Whitmer being ruthless, she has her eye on 2028.

[quote] I can see Whitmer being ruthless, she has her eye on 2028.

She’ll be brought down a peg or too.

But how does she get around Harris? That’s the ugly part, coming after the ugliness of Biden stepping out.

Saw and interesting discussion between John Dickinson (CBS) and Stephen Colbert. Dickinson said historically this reminds him of 1948, Truman.

R464, I think Truman not having dementia makes the race in 1948 quite different.

If the donors keep pulling back their money he's going to have to pawn that crown.

I like that historical comparison, R464. I’d like Trump to be a latter-day Tom Dewey,

[quote]I think Truman not having dementia makes the race in 1948 quite different.

Truman didn't have trolls diagnosing him with dementia from afar, you mean.

[QUOTE] Ruh Roh. Speaking of Michigan, Hilary Scholten was just with Jill Biden a week ago and now she wants Joe out. Whitmer backed him after the debate but they got to her too. I can see Whitmer being ruthless, she has her eye on 2028.

Why doesn’t Whitmer step forward and challenge Joe for the nomination right now? She thinks this passive aggressive bullshit will endear her to the base in four years if it’s perceived that she didn’t do everything to help Joe win? She’ll have a lot of competition and Biden voters aren’t going to forget.

^ A troll I had wisely blocked.

^ R465, that is.

No one is challenging Biden for the nomination, R469. The only question is who will enter the fray if he drops out of the race.

Trump hasn't been diagnosed from afar? Are you fucking kidding me? Is this your first day on the internet? Don't have cable TV yet? Ass.

This evening in Michigan, Joe will be speaking before two huge banners that read . . .

MOTOWN IS JOETOWN

Meanwhile, Joe just successfully negotiated a peace agreement between Israel and Hamas.

But you motherfuckers want somebody who's pretty and smells nice.

I don't hate Biden by any means, though I do want him to step aside from the election (whether he continues his term or not is less important), but I fucking hate the supporters who refer to him as 'Joe', all chummy and cozy and folksy.

Even though Biden spent decades encouraging everyone he met to just call him Joe, itś so fucking cheesy to refer to him that way. And in these threads it always betrays someone who is absolutely blind to considering the least fault in the man.

C'mon Joe don't fuck up in Detroit, crossing my fingers.

Detroit chanting "Don't you quit!"

[quote]I don't hate Biden by any means, though I do want him to step aside from the election (whether he continues his term or not is less important), but I fucking hate the supporters who refer to him as 'Joe', all chummy and cozy and folksy.

[quote]Even though Biden spent decades encouraging everyone he met to just call him Joe, itś so fucking cheesy to refer to him that way. And in these threads it always betrays someone who is absolutely blind to considering the least fault in the man.

LoL, r476, I bet you didn't like Ike. If you're going to whine about something, at least make it something with some substance.

R425 This is so exhausting... no one will do what you are challenging "candidates" to do. All the discussion acknowledges it is JOE's decision, only he can shift the outcome of the August convention.

What is central to the discussion is 1) it's absolutely unacceptable that Trump is elected, 2) is Biden the best person to assure that Trump loses, the best person to make the argument and 3) if he's at the top of the ticket, if he loses, will he lead a campaign that keeps the House and Senate out of MAGA hands.

My own view is that Harris is now the best person to wage the war. If Biden is the guy, after the convention, I'll do everything in my power to make sure he's elected.

I love how enthusiastic the Detroit crowd is for Joe, but they kinda need to tone it down so he can concentrate on his speech.

However, Dark Brandon has shown up in Detroit.

Where was this Joe during the debate?

He actually called Trump, "Putin's Puppy".

Best Biden speech since 2020. Absolutely made the case against Trump. Forceful.

And I am one of those who have been pushing for Harris.

At 8:08 pm on Friday, July 12, 2024, I've never more wanted the offer to suck George Clooney's dick. And I would say oh, hell no!

Please ask again tomorrow.

R484, Reading someone else’s words off a teleprompter?

R486 1) what candidate doesn't read someone else's words? remember when Trump went ballistic because his teleprompters didn't work? I am sure Trump WRITES what's on his teleprompters. 2) you post too soon, further in the thread I share that Biden talking extemporaneously to the crowd was powerful and effective. By the way, I've been calling for Biden to step down, but this speech was very, very good.

He has a deteriorating disease that will get worse and worse. Parkinson's patients have hallucinations. That is what was happening when he shook hands with the air. He had a hallucination.

What field of medicine do you specialize in, R488?

The Rethuglian convention next week is going to be such a fascist, embarrassing campfest people will forget about stutterin' Joe for a while.

geriatric nurse. I have had many Parkinson's patients and dementia patients.

r490 But the people you are talking about are democrats. The Republicans like his brand of crazy. He is ahead and will probably stay there with such a weak candidate as Biden.

“Behind the Curtain: Committee to Unelect the President”

The Democrats working to oust Biden.

[quote] President Biden beat back the initial public campaign by Democrats to oust him from the party's presidential ticket, swiftly and decisively. But very-connected Democrats, mostly veterans of the Obama and Clinton administrations, are plotting hourly to get him to withdraw quickly

This is all so sad. Biden is putting himself out there as if he can convince people he’s not old. It’s never going to get him re-elected. There is a reason the Trump team wants Biden to stay because they know the public will not put Biden back in the White House. Why isn’t Jill telling him to wrap it up? Does she want him to die from over exertion?

Biden is not weak. He is old and has slowed down, but he is not weak and his command of the issues and his accomplishments are worthy of re-election. He has accomplished a hell of a lot. People have amnesia. You do not fire a PResident after one term with a booming economy. Trump will pull us all back into the ditch. His economic proposals are dismal. His tariffs are a terrible, costly idea and they will hit all of us hard. He will give more tax cuts to the wealthiest. Biden is proposing Tax increases to the billionaire class. Right now they pay 8%. Yes. Biden wants them to pay 25% which is not onerous. Biden is going to continue to make improvements to healthcare aimed at reducing costs. He is going to finally give us a housing policy which will include a rental cap at 5% annually. And he is increasing the minimum wage. He will pass laws that give women back the reproductive freedom, and he will pass a tough gun safety law and Voting Rights. That's basically all I remember, but he has a very ambitious list of things he wants to do in the first 100 days of his next term His foreign policy achievements are extremely important to world stability. So stop this bullshit and get out here and help him win.

Sorry but it’s not enough reason to reelect him. He’s not going to live much longer.

Who cares, if Biden only lives a year or two, that's all we need to defeat Trump. We have a perfectly good VP to step in at the drop of a hat.

[quote] There is a reason the Trump team wants Biden to stay because they know the public will not put Biden back in the White House.

That's only half right. Trump team wants Biden to stay in because they have built their attacks around one person, Joe Biden. They have spent millions in polls, research attack ads, memes, surrogates to trash him. If Biden drops out, they lost all of that money, time and effort and have to start from scratch.

[quote]They have spent millions in polls, research attack ads, memes, surrogates to trash him.

It took millions to determine that Biden's weakness is inflation and immigration? We should all get in the business of being paid to do that kind of "research".

Yes R499 that's exactly what I did. - Kellyanne Conway

[quote] his command of the issues and his accomplishments are worthy of re-election. He has accomplished a hell of a lot.

This argument comes across as selfishness and entitlement. Biden is basically telling voters, "I did a lot of good things as president, so I deserve to be re-elected. I expect you to reward me with another term." It's not unlike the problems Hillary had in 2016 where she was able to brag about her experience and policy proposals, but when asked about why she wanted to be president and her vision for the country, her answers always came across as "It's my turn. I'm entitled to the presidency."

Trump is pure evil, but he has a vision for the country. It's a dark, dystopian, authoritarian vision built around lies and hate, but one that appeals to a segment of the population.

[quote] he has a very ambitious list of things he wants to do in the first 100 days of his next term

Biden has an ambitious agenda, but he's no longer very good at communicating it, except in certain scripted, highly managed situations. Also, there is no reason why he couldn't hand off the list of things to another capable and ambitious Democrat. All presidents eventually leave office and have to pass the torch. Kamala Harris or another Democrat could finish the job that Biden has started.

[quote] We have a perfectly good VP to step in at the drop of a hat.

Then why not let her step in now and become our nominee (or let her compete against others for the nomination)? Given the fact that Biden is 81, has fallen behind Trump in every swing state, and could have another "bad night" like the night of the debate, wouldn't this be the logical time to make the transition to Harris (instead of in the middle of Biden's second term)? After all, as you say, she is "perfectly good" and could "step in at the drop of a hat." Why not let her do that?

Are you for REAL, r476?!

You've never heard of Ike? JFK? LBJ? Dubya? Jimmy? Honest Abe?!

He's JOE, we're going to call him JOE, and you can just sit your prig self DOWN.

All the Pro-Joe people conveniently skip over that Biden will have to be re-elected before he can "finish the job."

The more I ponder how much I enjoyed that fiery "Motown is Joetown" rally by Biden, the more it also increases my worry and resentment that he's staying in.

America is worthy of being damned. It should just be self-evident, that the thing speaks for itself, that the likes of Donald Trump should never have been elected the POTUS in the first place, and now, the Votes-Looter-in-Chief, may go in again.

But that's not where this country is, to its shame.

We need somebody who can consistently, 24/7, with physical and mental stamina, take on the fight.

That person isn't Joe.

And him internally girding himself, to summon the mental and physical energy to perform as he did in Detroit last night is, in and of itself, sapping whatever physical and mental inventory he has left in his life, with none left over to take it to the enemy.

Please, President Biden, make your singular retreat, in service to the cause, as great a feat as advancing it by handing over the reins to a fresh leader.

[quote]All the Pro-Joe people conveniently skip over that Biden will have to be re-elected before he can "finish the job."

Which is why desperate Republicans know he can beat the disgusting, reprobate Trump, and they have few roadblocks to diminish Joe.

Once Joe is the nominee, it is set in stone.

Waiting for some asshole to bring up a rules fight at the Convention.

Joe will win on a first ballot, even if he releases his delegates.

Grassroots delegates are the ones who watch weak kneed Democrats offer up their hindquarters to Nielsen's/polls.

And fuck Nancy. We see her throwing Katie Porter under the bus for Adam Schiff.

There is a reason she gave up the Speakership.

[quote] Republicans know he can beat the disgusting, reprobate Trump

All of the current evidence points in the opposite direction.

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that we're supposed to ignore all the polls and pretend that it's 2020 again and that Biden is beating Trump in all the swing states.

Bunker mentality in the extreme, r505. The debate was just a flesh wound, right?

If Biden is losing the swing states by the time August starts, he’ll be toast. Nothing else really matters.

I agree that once the convention happen things are basically set in stone (IOW, it becomes much harder to replace him after that). But that's why he should be replaced now/during the convention.

Here's where the race stood 4 years ago: On July 13, 2020, based on the polling at that time, Biden was predicted to win 395 electoral college votes to 132 for Trump. Biden was leading in Nevada, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. Today, Biden is behind in all 7 of those states.

[quote]All of the current evidence

Is that what Republicans are moving to, knowing that polls are unreliable as evidence.

Just rename them. Just like Moderate Democrats, went to Liberals, went to Politically Correct, to Woke.

The Grass Roots see this bullshit.

Republican, Tea-Party Republican, Far-Right Republican, White Supremacist, MAGA, Fascist.

r510, you are fucked if you are seeing the Criminally Indicted Fake-Elector Nevada GOP Trump ahead of Biden in Nevada. The major Newspaper is owned by $100M Republican Widow, Miriam Adelson. Along with Wynn being owned by criminal RNC Board member Steve Wynn. Sinclair own NBC TV3. 8NN has trended right for years and wishy-washy Nevada Independent goes all wishy-washy over being, what THEY consider Fair and Equal. Nevada Journalism, and Las Vegas County Voters are subject to crappy Right Wing purchased polling. But Nevadans consistently vote on ISSUES, and Republicans have no issues that benefit Nevadans. Even that fake No Tax On Tips crap is seen to get Clarence off the hook for accepting bribes and not helping the waitress at Denny's.

This is the reason Harry Reid won all those times. Trumpublicans have no grassroots ground game in Nevada, except for importing Carpetbaggers. And why do you think FOX called Arizona for Biden so early.

Only votes count. Polls have been reduced to Nielsen Overnights that are really inaccurate.

[quote] we're supposed to ignore all the polls

All the polls?! What about the last two polls, A+ rated each, WaPo/ABC & Marist/NPR, showing either a tie or Biden up by two? After the worst possible weeks he could have? I vacillate on whether Biden should drop out, but these polls certainly have to least give us pause. We cannot know how someone else - who's not yet in the race - would fare. And yes, Harris advocates have some good polls numbers now to hang their hats on. But pre-candidacy polls are rather fickle. Ask Ron DeSantis about that,

All polls are tainted. The imprimatur of polling has been damaged.

Voters are no longer swayed by polls.

It is easier for voters to ignore and second guess polls than actually believe them.

But voters vote. And it is a sad commentary that the 24/7 news cycle relies so much on polling, but they have to fill up their time and actual political analysis is not ENTERTAINING.

[quote] but these polls certainly have to least give us pause.

I can go along with that, to the extent that I have to remind myself that polls shouldn't be used as a predictor, they are measuring devices, albeit with volatile variables.

[quote] What about the last two polls, A+ rated each, WaPo/ABC & Marist/NPR, showing either a tie or Biden up by two?

Would that be the WaPo/ABC poll that found 67% of Americans, including 56% of Democrats, think Biden should step aside? That can hardly be spun as good news for Biden.

Anyway, national polls don't mean much. It's the state polls that matter. And the state polls are grim.

[quote]polls certainly have to least give us pause.

To pause ...and laugh and laugh.

You know polls are fucked when MSM is turning Biden into Truman.

I laugh and laugh.

[quote]Anyway, national polls don't mean much. It's the state polls that matter. And the state polls are grim.

No, they are not. Harry Reid as known to quite Internal Polls.

Democratic Internal polls, the people who vote, the people who knock doors, are never released.

But as long as the Nevada Democratic Party is solidly for Biden. You can bet your bottom dollar that the internals are solidly Biden.

[quote] Harry Reid as known to quite Internal Polls

Harry Reid Was known to quOte Internal Polls.

[quote] Would that be the WaPo/ABC poll that found 67% of Americans, including 56% of Democrats, think Biden should step aside? That can hardly be spun as good news for Biden.

Yet - most importantly - it was still a tie race according to this poll. I wonder if they asked how many Americans thought Trump should step aside. I'm sure more than 50% would say he should, too.

[quote] Anyway, national polls don't mean much. It's the state polls that matter. And the state polls are grim.

State polls - especially at this stage - are notoriously inferior to most national polls. In any event, there have been a paucity of them post-debate.

r521, IIRC, the Trump should never be President # is closer to 68%.

But it again mirrors the 70% of Americans who want Gun Control, Roe Restored, No attacks on voting, Dark money out of elections, and clean water. That number is what pundits call The Baked In Numbers.

If you step back from the race, MAGA Republicans, the Project 2025 people, the ones who bought the Supreme Court, are only 30% of the electorate. Republicans have gone out of their way to CONSTRICT the party and not actively grown membership. And when the Party of White Supremacists reveals a Manifesto that is a Hit Job on everyone who is NOT an Evangelical White Supremacist, you understand their desperation to fuck up the process, ANY process.

The Campaign Motto:

If you are not a Republican, we will kill you!

is not a winning proposition.

If Biden stays, I could see him winning the national vote but losing the electoral college to Trump in a landslide. Plus Democrats would lose the House and Senate. His fans have a Jim Jones cult like belief that he can win.

[quote]Yet - most importantly - it was still a tie race according to this poll. I wonder if they asked how many Americans thought Trump should step aside. I'm sure more than 50% would say he should, too.

No, that’s not important. The only matter of importance right now is whether Biden can WIN. And a close race against a raging narcissist (the Republican one, I mean) is too iffy for Biden to remain the candidate.

The theory that Jill and Hunter are diabolically enabling his denial has taken on the proportions of a truly intense work of fiction.

R526, John Grisham is already on it.

R501 [quote]Biden is basically telling voters, "I did a lot of good things as president, so I deserve to be re-elected. I expect you to reward me with another term."

You mean like every other incumbent President who has run for re-election ever? Even the dissemblers in MAGA point to "how it was in Trump's first time" to advocate for a second Trump term.

I am a "let's pass the torch to Harris" guy, but it's clear that Biden is held to a higher standard by virtually every political faction on the Right to Left spectrum, from the Christian Nativists to the Gaza from-the-river-to-the-sea folks.

R505 In truth Pelosi gave up the Dem Leadership position to pass the torch to a new, younger generation. It's something the Dems haven't done that well. Insert the bittersweet RBG on the miscalculations fueled but a purity-hubris. It may be a unique Boomer thing, but I'm not sure about that.

It also happens in the Republican universe, but I'm not that concerned about that.

RBG was always a weak reed. Scalia was a non-apologetic pay to play man and she personally liked the corrupt ignorant viper.

Bighty Moe Jiden...Miden...Boe Miden...you know the thing.

[quote] If Biden stays, I could see him winning the national vote but losing the electoral college to Trump in a landslide.

Chuck Todd is of the belief that, this year, whomever wins the popular vote will also win the Electoral College.

Yes, R516, I do believe it's a deliberate strategy to attack the elites. It's an appealing pitch to many voters.

[quote] Chuck Todd is of the belief that, this year, whomever wins the popular vote will also win the Electoral College.

If it’s a close race and Trump wins the EC, Biden will get the most votes nationally because, as always, California.

R534, Big deal.

Covid makes the campaigns of 2020 and 2024 two different animals.

In 2020, Biden didn't have to engage and perform the rigors of a conventional US Presidential campaign. Biden didn't have to prepare for a national convention which was mostly done by zoom. Biden basically campaigned from his basement.

That's not a knock on him, that's just the reality of that time.

Four years later: A rigorous personal appearance schedule where he has to travel. More engagement. A national convention to prepare for when he isn't going to be able to only appear on the last day. Given all the questions on his ability he'll want to be there every day.

That's enough to drain any human, young or old.

But now let's add in that Biden still is the US President and that's a daily grind.

In a very real way, in 2020, Biden benefitted from being in a bubble necessitated by Covid. That bubble is gone, and the rigors of a national campaign are back.

...and Biden is now 81 and it's 4 years later.

[quote]Chuck Todd is of the belief that, this year, whomever wins the popular vote will also win the Electoral College.

Like in 2020.

[quote] If Biden stays, I could see him winning the national vote but losing the electoral college to Trump in a landslide. Plus Democrats would lose the House and Senate. His fans have a Jim Jones cult like belief that he can win.

The cultists believe that every single poll that has been conducted so far is wrong and that Biden is actually leading Trump in all the swing states. They also refuse to believe that Biden's support among young voters and black voters has eroded. Therefore, they believe there is no need for Biden to make any changes. They believe that if Biden just continues to rattle off the accomplishments of his first term and reminds everyone that Trump is a convicted felon, he will be swept into the White House for a second term. It's not just that there is a debate about the best way to fix the mess we're facing, it's that they won't even acknowledge there's a problem.

[QUOTE] The cultists believe that every single poll that has been conducted so far is wrong and that Biden is actually leading Trump in all the swing states.

Lies.

[QUOTE] They also refuse to believe that Biden's support among young voters and black voters has eroded.

Lies.

[QUOTE]They believe there is no need for Biden to make any changes

Lies.

[QUOTE] They believe that if Biden just continues to rattle off the accomplishments of his first term and reminds everyone that Trump is a convicted felon, he will be swept into the White House for a second term.

More LIES.

Believing that Joe should remain the nominee does not mean you also believe he’s running a perfect campaign with no changes necessary. Every presidential campaign in history has retooled and made changes along the way. It’s one lengthy chess match.

I am the chief Biden cheerleader and I’ve mentioned NUMEROUS things Joe should do differently in multiple threads.

[quote] State polls - especially at this stage - are notoriously inferior to most national polls.

True, but the election is decided on a state-by-state basis in the Electoral College. It doesn't matter if Biden and Trump are tied nationally if Trump is winning all the battleground states.

[quote] In any event, there have been a paucity of them post-debate.

Also true, but it's hard to imagine that the debate led to a sudden Biden surge in all those states. We'll have to see what the state polls say in the next week or two.

Not to derail the thread (because there are so few threads on DL talking about Biden, Trump and the election), once the Constitution and Republic is destroyed by the next years of MAGA foolishness, the Second Republic might be constructed more like the parliamentary system: let there be a "presidential election" in each congressional district, and the electors from that all go to the electoral college to elect the new president (Nebraska and Maine already have a precedence). That way the election can still protect and respect "geography", but also allow a more "one man, one vote" equity.

Current Electoral College system gives unequal power to low population states, with no real principle of justice behind that. Why should a voter in a rural or low population state have MORE power than one who lives in a city or more populated state? As a Californian I'm pissed off that my vote counts less than someone living in Wyoming or North Dakota.

[quote] the Second Republic might be constructed more like the parliamentary system: let there be a "presidential election" in each congressional district, and the electors from that all go to the electoral college to elect the new president (Nebraska and Maine already have a precedence). That way the election can still protect and respect "geography", but also allow a more "one man, one vote" equity.

This would be even worse, largely because of the way that Republicans have gerrymandered the congressional districts. Under this system, Romney would have beaten Obama in 2012 and I believe Trump still would have won in 2016.

R543 In the Second Republic there are clear standards on how to establish congressional districts. No gerrymandering... not only has current gerrymandering negatively impact national representation, in each party it rewards the more extremists, both Left and Right, to get elected in primaries and so the extremists are more likely to get elected in the general.

I know California is often depicted as some kind electoral Wasteland, but after last census there was an Independent Redistricting Commission established which mitigated gerrymandering. Initial review of the impact shows, while still keeping strong Democratic majorities in Assembly, Senate and US Congress, it did soften the edges at the extremes, both Left and Right. I.e. more "across the aisle" willingness to work together.

Biden was put in office by the elites. Now he's attacking the elites?! Roflmao The party elites pulled strings to get Bernie out of there. Biden was not a popular candidate, he did not have grass roots support. He ran a notoriously lackluster campaign. In many places he had no campaign offices. He was installed by the elites.

What the hell are you talking about, R545? Elites forced Bernie out? I’d say getting his ass handed to him in state after state is what forced Bernie out. Joe murdered him across the country. There was no chance of Bernie catching Joe in the delegate count. Bernie’s campaign was running on fumes at the end. He had no business dragging it out for as long as he did.

R546 I didn't say anyone "forced Bernie out."

I meant he was the presumptive nominee and the frontrunner, having won 3 caucuses and primaries prior to Super Tuesday. Then strings were pulled to knock him out of that top spot.

R545 Every now is using "the elites" to describe anyone who disagrees with them. It happened before MAGA, but now the term "elite" doesn't mean anything anymore.

Biden in 2020 was lifted to the nomination by older black women voters, South Carolina primary was where that movement pushed him to the top. Guess what, older black women are not "the elites"...

R548 I didn't know Obama was an elderly black woman.

Excuse the NZ Times. There were articles in the NYT and Chicago Tribune, but they were paywalled.

[QUOTE] I meant he was the presumptive nominee and the frontrunner, having won 3 caucuses and primaries prior to Super Tuesday. Then strings were pulled to knock him out of that top spot.

Good, because Trump would’ve beat Bernie in 2020.

R549 Oh, a NZ Herald unplugs all normal understanding of the 2020 primaries, right.

The social media and posting these days: go Google a headline that supports what you are asserting and post as "proof"... I don't think people even read the articles they link to anymore.

Tell me you know fuck-all about American unions without telling me you know fuck-all about American unions.

[quote] I’d say getting his ass handed to him in state after state is what forced Bernie out. Joe murdered him across the country.

Certainly not in Iowa or New Hampshire or Nevada. Biden got his ass handed to him until Democrats panicked and South Carolina and Jim Clyburn saved his campaign.

[quote][R546] I didn't say anyone "forced Bernie out."

[quote]I meant he was the presumptive nominee and the frontrunner, having won 3 caucuses and primaries prior to Super Tuesday. Then strings were pulled to knock him out of that top spot.

So, r547...forced out.

[quote]In my country, we say it's better to give with warm hands

And in my country we say trolls deserve a bullet in the head and getting dumped in the harbor.

[QUOTE] Certainly not in Iowa or New Hampshire or Nevada. Biden got his ass handed to him until Democrats panicked and South Carolina and Jim Clyburn saved his campaign.

Nobody gives a shit about Iowa anymore. You say Democrats panicked, but you know who wasn’t included? Joe Biden! He never panicked. His campaign always planned to use South Carolina as a firewall against Bernie. That’s how this shit works. Nothing is linear when it comes to primary races. Bernie also planned to win certain states to level the playing field, but his victories weren’t big enough to catch Joe in the delegate count. So he lost. End of story.

I guess nobody remembers the concerted effort to get everybody else to drop out of the race so the vote could consolidate for Biden.

Dumbasses.

Bernie was"forced out" because (note passive verb) "strings were pulled"?

WTF GAS NOW?? Biden was the only Democrat who could have defeated Trump! Besides, if the candidate had been Sanders, the accusations of "Socialist" and "Communist" would yet be reverberating in our brains!

Is power coalescing behind one candidate supposed to be nefarious now, when it is de rigueur in politics? GMAFB.

I for one am thankful to those pulled strings!

[quote] Biden was the only Democrat who could have defeated Trump! Besides, if the candidate had been Sanders, the accusations of "Socialist" and "Communist" would yet be reverberating in our brains!

I agree that Biden was the only realistic choice to defeat Trump in 2020. Unfortunately, the Biden of 2024 is not the Biden of 2020 and no longer seems capable of beating Trump.

R557 what I Remember was t he inability of anyone to emerge from the pack with anything resembling a lead. It was going to continue until voices of reason said lets find one candidate to coalesce behind. Now Biden, as former VP and the guy who was most well known, was the one candidate, the other candidates would not feel stepped over. He became the consensus candidate. No one else on that state commanded the level of experience or knowledge or the fact that he was well known. Not Pete or Amy or Kamala or anyone else who I can't even remember now. They faced reality and they decided to unite to win.

[QUOTE] I guess nobody remembers the concerted effort to get everybody else to drop out of the race so the vote could consolidate for Biden.

They were all LOSERS. They weren’t going to win that election! They were running out of money, running out of opportunities to win states, and running out of HOPE. Why the hell would they continue running? Nobody had to force them out, they were COOKED. Joe was beating candidates in their own HOME STATES.

Oh yes, only Biden who was in fourth place was the clear choice...

I hate being the person to post this here.

NOT!

Did he really mean to say Trump, though? Maybe he meant Kamala Harris. Or Putin.

No 20 year old watched that R564.

R65, that's irrelevant, words don't kill people, people kill people. The shooter was just mentally ill. Isn't that what Repugs always say?

i read somewhere that his father is a mental health professional.

R564 stupid Hinckle. Says so much about the rapid disintegration of the country that a person can get away with statements like that; incitements to violence basically. Really starting to think the US will have destroyed itself in the next decade or two. First country to ever nuke itself?

Trump has been calling for the killing of his enemies for years.

You aren't going to get much traction consideing pastors have been openly calling for the killing of all gay people as long as we've been alive R569. The right broke this country - don't you dare try to blame it on the left

While I don't think this was planned by Republicans, it will play out very nicely for them. This ensures that Biden will stay in the race, because if he doesn't it will color Biden and the Democrats in general as weak, weak, weak.

No it won't R572. The proof will be this week at the RNC.

How can he stay in the race? People are in such denial.

I remember when Thomas Eagleton had to drop out as a VP candidate because he had been hospitalized for depression, previously. Now there's someone in the top spot who publicly displayed the symptoms of physical and mental decline. How have things gotten to this level?

[quote]The right broke this country - don't you dare try to blame it on the left

Six days ago Biden said this:

“I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,”

His violent rhetoric was a call to action.

Objective achieved.

He doesn't have one job. He's president. That's his main job.

R575, you have got to be an utter idiot to read that as a call to violence.

Oh, wait.

577 You have to be an idiot to think otherwise.

Watch this, the fun starts at 0:12

It may quiet the Biden chatter for a bit, but it’s already decided that Biden must step down. I would argue it’s more needed than ever since Trump will get a boost post-assassination attempt.

If Biden's looking for a graceful exit, could he drop out in the guise of doing his part to lower the heated political temperature? Even though it is Trump who bears responsibility.

Bet no other dem wants that crown now!

They never wanted it, R581. It’s too heavy for your average person, including most of the white knights cited by these anti-Biden posters who are not ready to be president.

This old warrior did it as a matter of duty, and the favor is returned by having the media and some members of his own party vilify him as some dictator clinging to power.

R582 Time to cool our jets a bit hon. No one said Biden was a dictator. No need to amp up division and anger today.

[quote] Six days ago Biden said this: “I have one job, and that’s to beat Donald Trump. I’m absolutely certain I’m the best person to be able to do that. So, we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye,” His violent rhetoric was a call to action.

Oh, please. Biden said this in a meeting with donors. Do you think the 20-year-old shooter was at that meeting? It's obvious that the term "bullseye" was used in a metaphoric sense. Meanwhile, Trump has spent years saying far more inflammatory and violent things about Biden and the Democrats.

Once again, the MAGAts reveal their complete hypocrisy and stupidity. On one hand, they say Biden is a weak, feeble old man who speaks in a whisper. But then they say he's a criminal mastermind who is directing and inspiring people to assassinate Trump.

R584, when there are violent acts that are political in some way, both sides point out that the other side used target metaphors prior to the violent acts. It’s easy for both parties to find since aiming and targeting are essential practices in the political process.

Time magazine :

This is unfortunately the kind of imagery Biden wishes for himself

They are birds of a feather

When Oswald killed JFK in far-right Dallas, too many people couldn’t wrap their heads around the fact that a left-winger had been responsible. The front page of the NYT that day had Tom Wicker attributing the murder to right-wing elements along with a story about the Marxist background of the arrested alleged gunman.

Because Oswald didn’t do it.

Could Biden conclude his address tonight with an announcement that he's bowing out of the race?

Bless your heart, r589.

He better drop out. We got several polls showing the continued post-debate downslide today. Old, demented Joe Biden has seen his polling numbers crater into.. a statistical dead heat with Trump, same as it was before the debate. 😂 With only four months to go, how can Joe possibly win this election against these political gale force winds? Another red wave is upon us!

So people who don't want him to drop out because they think he'll win...what d you do with a demented president for four years? (Answer this without saying anything about Trump.)

Biden has consistently outperformed his poll numbers, and Trump has been underperforming his poll numbers all through the primary. Same goes with all the special elections and midterms over the past 8 years--Democrats outperforming the polls.

LOOK AT

THE PICTURE. REALLY LOOK.

Alleged SECRET SERVICE people ARE ALLOWING TRUMP'S HEAD TO BE ABOVE THEIRS and AN OPEN TARGET.

WTF?!?!

And NO, they did NOT know** if there were multiple shooters, not was it their DUTY to even think about anything other than to GET TRUMP THE HELL OFF THAT STAGE and into the ARMORED VEHICLE!

** Or did they, beforehand?

R591, since the debate Joe has made more than 20 public appearances and hosted a very important NATO meeting. Trump hid for 10 days and did nothing. He spoke to a rally of his supporters in Detroit and was very effective. Fiery, coherent, and sharp. His news conference following the NATO summit was absolutely unmatchable. So what if he had a few gaffs. That is his signature. He has been gaff prone for years. But the significance was in the depth of knowledge and the detail he demonstrated as he answered questions and explained foreign policy issues for the United States. A feat Trump isn't even capable of. Joe is doing very well. But thanks for your concern.

Just stop R594

R594, there is video with audio. You can hear SS yelling "All clear" and you can hear others confirming "all clear?" "ALL CLEAR!"

I noticed the same with allowing Trump to pop his head up so he could do his fist bit. I was surprised they allowed that but I believe the "all clear" gave them a bit of wiggle room at that point.

I heard the SS say the shooter was down several times.

Biden just gave his third unnecessary live address this weekend. He said we have to take our disagreements to the “battle box” - twice. Let go Joe.

Joe needs speech therapy.