NEW YORK, NEW YORK on TCM tonite

It birthed one of my favorite songs of all time. I know- Mary. But for that I am forever grateful.

I'm recording it now so I can watch the Biden interview and follow-up. I've seen it a few times before, I love the soundtrack, so I'll see if this holds my interest once more.

[quote]Liza has never looked more beautiful.

Yes she has, OP. And I believe the word is...striking.

Following "New York, New York" on tonight's lineup are "Looking For Mr. Goodbar" and "The Out-Of-Towners."

"Oh my God!"

That's some line-up.

R4 Thanks for the heads up. I haven't watched Goodbar in years.

I have it on now, as I've never seen the entire movie through. I feel like they tried to cash in on framing Liza looking and performing like her mom in one of Judy's color mid-1940s-era musicals. But with that big schnozz of Liza's, her other ethereal mannerisms and energy shared with Judy just get thrown off. Nostalgia for the '40s and '50s was big in that timeframe, but the film didn't do well at the time. Still, I wish Liza had had even more film roles and success than the several she did before, after and with "Cabaret," for which I think her acting was sometimes underrated and directors seemed not to know what exactly to do with her.

Love this movie! Liza is great and Bobby is perfectly perfect.

I thought Liza sounded great and De Niro looked great, but there was no juice in the story, just in the songs.

It...lumbers.

I thought the song was much, much older than this film.

Hard to believe this was released 47 years ago.

Just channel-surfed past TCM and saw this was on. I’ve never seen it before. Would watch now but since it’s halfway over, I think I'll try to catch up with it some other time.

On a separate note, De Niro was fucking beautiful then.

This is the shitfest of a movie that happens whrn the entire cast and crew are doing coke during its production.

This is another Martin Scorsese film like Mean Streets, Raging Bull, and The Departed in which the script is just an excuse for the characters to have a series of knockout drag out fights and screaming matches. In NY, NY none of the characters are interesting and from the very beginning I wanted Liza to get away from De Niro. it's not memorable in the least

R15, I disagree slightly. There’s a lovely scene in which Liza sings “The Man I Love.” It’s as good a version as your ever going to hear.

Can't believe this is Liza singing. One of my favorite songs from the soundtrack.

I loved Boris Leven’s production design. But some scenes run on too long, some of the acting is self-indulgent like in a Cassevetes movie.

Minnelli sounds great in this movie because she’s singing straight and pretty like a band singer of the period and without all the awful Liza mannerisms and embellishments.

Liza’s facial features and personality were too big and artificial for films, and she had a terrible body. She’s lucky she was perfect for “Cabaret” (and “Cabaret” was perfect for her) or else she never would be considered a star now. There were always a lot of people who disliked her affect, and she wasn’t nearly as good as her mother as an actor, singer or screen presence.

I remember shortly after the movie flopped, Berry Gordy was making comments that Scorsese should have taken his suggestion. When he heard he was working on the movie - he offered Diana Ross and Marvin Gaye to star (he wanted desperately to turn Gaye into a movie star as he did Ross). Scorsese didn't take him seriously (according to Gordy). Whether it's true or not...who knows (Gordy was pitching a lot of musicals for Ross back then). But it may have made a more interesting movie. (I wonder if Kander and Ebb would still have been involved ?). Oh well...

Maybe that inspired the Broadway production, with a Black Francine.

NEW YORK, NEW YORK is a total mess and a few songs aside, a feel bad bore.

R20 I never thought of that - could be.

R21 - it really is a terrible, terrible movie. They revived it at Film Forum awhile back and even a restored print on a big screen doesn’t help. It still amazes me that his next film, Raging Bull, is so masterful.

As a side note, I can't help but wonder what Gaye's career could've been like had Gordy turned him into a movie star as he did Ross. Gaye had the handsome looks, the sex appeal, the great voice.

[quote]Minnelli sounds great in this movie because she’s singing straight and pretty like a band singer of the period and without all the awful Liza mannerisms and embellishments.

Until she gets to "But the World Goes 'Round" and "New York, New York" when she goes full LIZA, with the theatrics and bombastic belting. These two numbers remind me why I can never take Liza seriously in films, post "Cabaret." Despite being a contemporary of the cool kids like De Niro and Scorsese, Liza reeks of old school showbiz schmaltz.

[quote]Liza’s facial features and personality were too big and artificial for films, [bold]and she had a terrible body.[/bold]

What do you mean, R18? In images from the 60s-early 90s, her body looks quite nice to me. Unless you mean the no-bra stance she displayed in the 70s--in that she was not unusual.

She looks to have very long legs, relative to a shorter torso/high waist. Is that what you mean by "terrible?"

Scorsese is not the director for this film. It wasn't that Liza was perfect for Cabaret or vice versa, it was that Fosse know what to do with her. Scosese hadn't a clue.

It's a big movie musical crossed with a kitchen sink drama and it doesn't work.

The Mary moment in The World Goes Round is where Liza grabs her head during the line "with a deafening sound". In that instance, she looks so much like Garland it's frightening. BTW couldn't Ebb come up with a better lyric than "one day it's kicks/then it's kicks in the shins"?

That complete Happy Endings number (with Larry Kert) looks like an old Dr. Pepper commercial.

[quote]BTW couldn't Ebb come up with a better lyric than "one day it's kicks/then it's kicks in the shins"?

I don't see anything wrong with it..

The kid who played their son gave off major Joey Luft vibes.

Nope, just you!

I'm amazed that we got to 32 replied with no one mentioning that the story was suggested by DL fave Doris Day's relationship with her first(second?) husband.

But the World Goes Around is one of the best musical numbers ever filmed. Liza should have had an oscar nomination off that scene alone.

It's a big overlong, but it's a great watch. DeNiro was sex on two legs in it. Love the lightbulb nightclub scene.

How was the title song not nominated for Best Song.? The songs from Saturday Night Fever were all snubbed that year as well. Very strange.

This movie is a cross between FUNNY GIRL and THE WAY WE WERE - on cocaine, of course. From FUNNY GIRL it borrows: meet cute; homely girl/good looking guy; homely but talented girl; star crossed romance; her career rockets to stardom while his goes downhill; one child who he's not involved with; a chance meetup years later; big boffo closing number for her; catchy title theme song. From THE WAY WE WERE it borrows: meet cute; homely girl/good looking guy; star crossed romance but they just can't make it work; one child he's not involved with; a chance meetup years later; big boffo closing number for her; and a pervasive title them song throughout. OTT period costumes throughout both.

We've seen it all before!!!

R26 — To each his or her own. In my view Liza had a stubby body, a short, thick waist (like mom) and small tits. She was and is quite short. Hers was not a graceful, sexy or especially feminine body as your own pictures show. I’m sure she did a lot of coke in the ‘70s in order to wear all those body-hugging Halston creations.

The scene in the hospital after the baby was born reminded me of the similar Streisand/Redford scene in The Way We Were.

Why the obsession with behind-the-scenes cocaine ingestion? Are the performances that reckless?

SNL did a parody of it called Escape from New York, New York, starring Adrienne Bimbo as the director's wife, Robert Deniro as the mumbler and Liza Minnelli as the dog. The episode was hosted by Bernadette Peters.

I saw this at the movies in NYC in 1977. Now I can’t get through 15 minutes of it. It belongs at the bottom on heap, not underrated at all.

Vincente Minnelli visited the set.

R18/R36, Liza had a okay-good body. It’s THAT FACE that is her downfall.

R19, I can't imagine Berry pitching a movie starring Marvin Gaye at that point in Gaye's life. Early on in Gaye's recording career, Gordy fancied Gaye as a kind of black Frank Sinatra.

Gaye's drug addiction was at its highest mid to late 70's. In addition, he was engaged in a very long, costly battle to end his toxic marriage to Gordy's sister, which weighed on him mentally and emotionally. And he was warring constantly with Barry over artistic control of his albums. Gaye had to move mountains to get Gordy to release "What's Going On" even though it would become one of the most critically acclaimed and best-selling of Motown albums. And despite that, Gordy still kept Gaye on a tight artistic leash. Once he got his head together and cleaned up his act, Marvin bolted from Motown.

What r43 said. Marvin Gaye was barely functional by the mid-late 70s. He was a raging cokehead and had a lot of personal demons. Lots of erratic behavior. He was a fucking hot mess.

The fact that De Niro’s character is an abusive bully makes New York New York neither good nor underrated today. The music is nice, though.

A few months ago, I rewatched NYNY for the first time in well over a decade. Having had good memories of it, I was shocked to see what a shambles it is. But Liza is not the problem. (She actually handles herself quite well.) The problem is DeNiro. Scorsese apparently chose not to rein him in, while also forgetting how to call "Cut!" So many scenes just go on & on -- Jimmy & Francine's "meet cute" on V-J Day takes nearly a half hour -- and the excessive ad libbing just saps any structure, sense or shape the story could have. There's still some stunning stuff on view, however, and I came away feeling that there is a genuine masterpiece lurking somewhere within this unwieldy and over-indulgent mess.

[quote]The fact that De Niro’s character is an abusive bully makes New York New York neither good nor underrated today.

Because we can only have nice characters in movies now? Jeez.

Doris had at least two abusive husbands.

There's a touch of Ruth Etting's story as told in Day's "Love Me or Leave Me," where James Cagney plays the abusive husband.

I liked it. My dad had the album.

R67, we’re supposed to have sympathy for his character and root for the couple. The only thing I thought was to scream at the Liza character - get out now, run from this fucking creep! I don’t think this was what Scorsese intended.

R47, not R67

I thought DeNiro's character was pretty damn creepy/stalkerish in the opening 10 minutes.

How appropriate that "Looking for Mister Goodbar" was on right after this movie.

[quote]we’re supposed to have sympathy for his character and root for the couple.

Who said? Maybe you're supposed to think about women band singers who made some bad decisions.

You want something simple, black and white. Life isn't like that. It's an adult drama with music.

[quote]It's an adult drama with music.

But not a successful blend, r53. You don't dislike Billy Bigelow...but you do De Niro. He doesn't charm us enough to forgive his brutality.

R18, so harsh! Liza is a natural actress with a great sense of humor and a lush, panoramic voice, whether speaking or singing. Loved her in NY, NY, of course Cabaret, but also--perhaps weirdly--Arthur. She was radiant, lovable, and funny in Arthur.

It's not Rodgers and Hammerstein

[quote]but also--perhaps weirdly--Arthur.

Why weirdly, r55? She got good reviews and it was great to see her in a hit movie...even if it wasn't hers.

Don't make me add a movie package to my IPTV subscription r4! I haven't seen NY NY but I love the The Out of Towners and Looking for Mr. Goodbar.

R55, Liza was just way too ugly to make it as a leading lady. The camera also didn't love her imperfections the way they did Streisand. And that manic personality, definitely muted in NYNY, was hard to take.

Why did the son at the end have such period inappropriate long-ish hair? Was he someone’s kid and Scorsese didn’t insist they cut his hair?

Liza bedded a lot of hot men, so she couldn't have been that bad looking back in the day.

^ HA! You obviously don’t know much about men, R61.

R61 Were any straight men ? I think they were all gay.

Desi Arnaz Jr.

Peter Sellers,

Mikhail Barishnikov

Jack Haley Jr.

Christopher Walken

Mark Gero

Martin Scorsese

Bob Fosse

Is TCM showing the print with the extended “Happy Endings” sequence?

[quote]r59 - Liza was just way too ugly to make it as a leading lady.

A kinder way would be to say too off-beat, but you do you.

Scorcese was so fucking self-indulgent in this film, had he not thought of himself as God's gift to the movies (thanks to the coke abuse, a habit he kicked by the time he started Raging Bull, it could have been 30 minutes shorter. So much wasted time on celluloid.

R66, I think ugly is a fair assessment.

As I said, r68, you do you. Kinder is obviously a word that isn't in your vocabulary.

As for Marvin Gaye, he did appear in two movies in two small roles (1969 and 1971). Both times he played a Viet Nam vet. He wanted to pursue an acting career in the 70s, and signed on with an agency. So Gordy was helping him with his aspirations, as he tried to make him a Hollywood star as he did Ross, despite whatever personal problems Gaye was going through in the 70s. (Gordy also pitched Ross and Gaye for 'A Star Is Born' in 1975).

From Wiki:

Gaye did have acting aspirations and had signed with the William Morris Agency but that only lasted a year as Gaye was not satisfied with the support he was getting from the agency. In his interview with David Ritz, Gaye admitted being interested in show business particularly when he was hired to compose the soundtrack for Trouble Man. "No doubt I could have been a movie star, but it was something my subconscious rejected. Not that I didn't want it, I most certainly did. I just didn't have the fortitude to play the Hollywood game: to put myself out there, knowing they would eat my rear end like a piece of meat.”

R33 Thank you! I was about to jump in with the Doris Day comment when you came along.

[quote]Gordy also pitched Ross and Gaye for 'A Star Is Born' in 1975

Imagine that. Diana would have knocked that out of the park and gotten an Oscar. And the milieu would have been so much better and believable than Barbra's. But no....she does The Wiz. What could have been.

R72 Warner Bros. didn't want to take a chance on an 'all black' cast with the remake of 'A Star Is Born'. It wasn't her fault. (She ended up doing 'Mahogany' instead).

Mahogany didn't hurt her, r73, but I remember it seemed a let-down as a follow-up to LStB.

R74 It was, in a sense (though I think it was profitable, yet not the hit 'Lady' was). Ross wanted to follow up 'Lady' with a bio on Josephine Baker, but no studio wanted to touch another biopic on a black female entertainer at that time. 'A Star Is Born' was offered to her, but the studio didn't want to gamble on an all-black cast on the remake (as I mentioned above). She could have done 'blaxploitation' films (which were huge back then) but she had no interest in them, either. She settled with 'Mahogany'.

A Star Is Born with Diana and Marvin would've been fantastic. A shame it was never made.

[Quote] we’re supposed to have sympathy for his character and root for the couple.

[Quote] Who said? Maybe you're supposed to think about women band singers who made some bad decisions.

[Quote] You want something simple, black and white. Life isn't like that. It's an adult drama with music.

The character is an obnoxious boor, and De Niro's performance is a a bore.

Mahogany suffered from a lousy script and poor direction but Ross and Billy Dee were magical together. They both deserved better. And, of course, it's always fun watching Anthony Perkins play a sexually confused wacko.

Re R64, Apparently, it was an open secret that Marty and Liza were carrying on an affair, despite both being married to others. This caused a lot of on-set tension because Scorsese's wife, Julia Cameron, assisted in completing the unfinished script and was part of production.

Allegedly, while Liza was walking on the street with her husband, Jack Haley Jr, a coked out Scorsese confronted her and berated her for two-timing him with Mikhail Baryshnikov! Liza, also, allegedly, hooked up with De Niro during the shoot, as well. I'm reminded of what Lucille Ball said about Liza after her breakup with Desi Jr: "You can't domesticate Liza."

I would love a bio-pic of the making of NYNY

Cocaine, Liza, Judy, Martin, Robert, JAZZ

I could play any number of parts!

[quote]Mahogany suffered from a lousy script and poor direction

Apparently, there were sequences that Tony Richardson directed that were left in the movie, but I'd love to know which ones they were.

The MAHOGANY soundtrack also was a mess - leaving off most of the Ross recorded tracks for instrumentals instead (most of the left off tracks are available on the reissue of 1976's "Diana Ross"). The soundtrack was supposed to be re-released as a 'deluxe' edition a few years ago, with all the Ross recordings added on in the order which they were supposed to be included back in 1975 - but so far, nothing.

R64, the me in your list were womanizers. They'd fuck anything in a skirt. Btw, Jack Haley Jr was GAY.

Well, you only get a couple of Liza tracks on the Lucky Lady soundtrack.

R69 = Liza