I'm so fascinated by people who were "passing" in the segregated US

More on Gail's story.

CBS Sunday Morning did a great story on this topic.

Not that unusual. I have American Indian ancestry and many people like me have family histories of not discussing this. It only be came "cool" to be American Indian in the last couple generations.

Gail grew-up in a reputationally racist suburb. Her mother had many incentives to pass. Other than the white foundation makeup, staying out of the sun is now pretty normal.

This is not unique to the US. This is very common in South America, where the early European settlers were mostly male. In parts of Asia, people conceal Chinese ancestry. Among Brits, many people had family posted to India, so their concealment of South Asian ancestry. OP Is living a bubble. French have this with North Africa, in particular.

Here's another interview regarding this woman. The PBS show about her seems to be offline.

OP - If the top interests you, check out the 2021 movie "Passing"

It is an interesting phenomenon. And it’s especially interesting now to see an old movie or TV show where the actor is accepted as caucasian but seems to have been mixed race at least. People believed what they were told unless they happened to be in the know. I ‘m sure black people speculated a lot about actors and performers who may have been passing.

I always wondered about Dorothy Lamour, the Paramount star born in New Orleans, which had a history of mixed race liaisons while also being a major slave auction city. I know there were rumors about singer/actress Dinah Shore in the ‘40s that had to be squelched.

During the classic period, Dona Drake, a dancer and soubrette type had roles in lots of movies at Paramount and later had her best supporting role in “Another Part of the Forest,” an indie made from Lillian Hellman’s play that never got a wide audience. She wound up marrying Travilla, head costume designer at Fox in the ‘50s. She passed herself off as Hispanic but was part black, a fact she needed to hide in order to work.

That said, I don’t believe in the “one drop” rule, it perplexes me that a formula borne of racism has been accepted by some black people. I go along with the Sarah Jane character in “Imitation of Life.” If you don’t look black and don’t identify with black culture, religion, etc., fine. And these days, she wouldn’t have to repudiate her mother to keep a job or land Troy Donahue.

passing is part of american frontier and land of opportunity culture. its always been around and includes a huge helping of class passing, besides race and religion. class passing was part and parcel of upward mobility for at least 3 centuries. it has broken down a bit in the 21st century because its all about wealth now and much less about social class. also many countries have surpassed the us in offering upward mobility.

In the U.S., we have many Afro-Celtic people dating from slavery.

Joseph Cotton was thought to be part black.

Wiinston Churchill had a bit of Native American ancestry from his mother, Jenny, who was a great beauty.

I am Scots-Irish (supposedly), but would love to discover that I have black heritage; I'm wary, though, of using genetic testing companies, because I don't want anyone in possession of my test results. Not quite sure how they handle that.

As an extremely straight-acting gay man, passing can be a chore. Imagine having to come out every day to everyone.

Nobody ever knew I was half white!

[quote] I am Scots-Irish (supposedly), but would love to discover that I have black heritage; I'm wary, though, of using genetic testing companies, because I don't want anyone in possession of my test results. Not quite sure how they handle that.

Not to mention what they're doing with your DNA.

For all you know, these companies could be building a DNA database, or even trying to clone people.

They have your name, your address, and your DNA.

To me, that's just insane. And people are giving it all up willingly.

In the US even 100% white Europeans like me are considered brown, it is just funny, due to the fact that I’m Cuban. I have been told that I’m white passing. Go figure.

[quote] Among Brits, many people had family posted to India, so their concealment of South Asian ancestry.

Really? How very interesting.

[quote] Among Brits, many people had family posted to India, so their concealment of South Asian ancestry.

Really? How very interesting.

The documentary this lady’s cousin made, Light Girls, is on Peacock. Very fascinating.

"One Drop" by Bliss Broyard is a fascinating read. Mostly because it explores the economic advantages of passing in 20th Century America alongside the devastating personal, psychological and cultural consequences. Passing meant access to prosperity -- employment, economic opportunity, housing -- at a time when all cultural and institutional forces were aligned against advancement and prosperity for Black people. However, it also meant eliminating public connection to family, friends and community, inviting resentment and scorn, and the ever-present risk of exposure.

[quote] Among Brits, many people had family posted to India, so their concealment of South Asian ancestry.

What does this mean?

[quote] If the top interests you,

Let me oh dear myself. Meant to type "topic" but Freud got the better of me.

R12 - I'm first generation Cuban American. There are direct links to Europe on both sides going back 2-3 generations, but even so I'm sure there must be some Afro blood in me. If nothing else, the Moors spent a long ass time in Spain. Yet, I am presumed to be white and speak without any accent so people are generally surprised when I speak fluent Spanish. Plus my name isn't typically Hispanic. Most people take me for Jewish or Italian.

Hollywood starlet Dona Drake was born to black parents in Jacksonville Florida in 1914. She became Rita Rio, one of a few female bandleaders in the 1930s. Was renamed Dona Drake by Paramount where she made several films in two years. She married costume designer William Travilla in 1944 and the couple remained married until her death in 1989. However, they separated in 1956 due to Dona's mental issues. The couple had one daughter, Nia.

I think it’s tougher for white people to fathom but for blacks it’s quite simple. I’m talking about the understanding of why someone would “pass” in regards to ignoring their black ancestry. It meant so much in every facet of one’s life. The difference between respect and indifference. The difference between facing violence or not. The difference between getting ahead without a college degree which most people in that time did not attend. It meant the world in terms of being able to fully live as a human being. We don’t condone passing but we can’t definitely understand why.

We had family lure that we were part Native American. DNA results showed zero Native American. However, I am part Ghanian, Angolan and Congolese! I guess the “Native American” was added as an explanation as to why any children might not be born with blue eyes (white babies are usually born with blue eyes).

[QUOTE] white babies are usually born with blue eyes

More motherfucking white privilege

To be fair - the relatives on her black side are very light skinned. So her mom is maybe 1/4 black. Still enough to give her a rough life in the South.

There are a lot of these stories. And you can't really blame them.

This is such woke nonsense. I bet this woman is infused with liberal madness. She is clearly a big white Frau, nothing black/mixed about her. Why did she all of a sudden want to claim herself as a black?

Wentworth Miller portrayed a Black man who passed in The Human Stain. He was quite compelling. . . and hot!

R25 - Some people are just fucking batshit crazy scammers!

To me, it's not that much different than you closet cases who are passing as straight. And you know who you are.

I've been out since I was 14 (in 1972) and believe me, I've paid the price for you people for my entire life.

R28, stop lying! No one passes for straight anymore!

R28 - It's not our fault that you were so flamboyantly flaming that the smoke could be seen from outer space. Just be yourself and drop the reproach.

R28 - yep - for most people regardless of circumstance, it's a matter of survival in an unfair and unjust world.

I always thought that one of the reasons gay men liked Imitation of Life so much is because we can relate to "passing"

R32 - agreed - to be honest, I never gave a shit about Lana Turner or Sandra Dee in the 50's version. Seemed like filler for the bigger story line.

R19 the Muslim population during that time was very small and the Christian’s and Muslims were prohibited to get married to anyone outside their race and religion. Back then you could literally lose your life if you married someone of a different religion, they would be considered apostates. Not all Cubans have black blood, in my case, I don’t. I would not mind if I did. The majority of white looking Cubans have North African because of Canary Island origins but the guanches were all blond and blue eyes. My best friend is Cuban, she looks German and when she had her dna test done she had 5 % black. That is five generations back and sometimes more.

The whitest looking mixraced people in Cuba are Jabaos and they all have one mulatto parent and a white one. White Cubans can tell when someone is mixed race unless that person has very low amount of black dna.

Thanks for posting the Dona Drake clip, R20.

But Marilyn Monroe was a Mexican ‘passing’ as white? Sorry, don’t buy it.

I think because Western Europe never experienced chattel slavery they don’t understand the racial dichotomy of the US. You guys have black people in your major cities, and I’m sure actually I KNOW have faced discrimination but it’s just different. You had entire block of people whose entire existence was to feed the economy. And in the US the weather(summer heat) wasn’t so extreme so they didn’t have to keep going back to Africa for more slaves. A unique America population of blacks formulated. But their entire purpose was to work. Even when that shit was over with so much of our culture, hell even personalities, things like singing real well, knowing how to roast(joke, shoot the dozen) that shit all came from slavery. The mammies you see in movies from the 20s and 30s. Those women were raised by slaves. It’s a peculiar institution for a reason.

I've told this story on here before. My Grammy's sister moved to NYC in the late 40s and passed. She stayed in touch with my Grammy and my GG, but never visited until my GG died. That side of the family identified as black, but to the naked eye they were white. I guess they all could have passed if they wanted, but my great aunt was the only one who did it. I barely knew the woman, but I don't judge her or the choices she made.

I didn't care for the movie Passing because those people were idiots to not know that woman was a black woman in heavy makeup.

There's a great movie, "Passing," with Ruth Negga and Alexander Skarsgaard, and it is really really good. About Harlem in the 50's. Or maybe the 40's? Not sure, but it is a very well done period piece.

I met a guy at a bathhouse who lived in the U.S. but was originally from Columbia. He made a point of telling me that his great great grandfather was from Spain. He was trying to give me his European credentials. It wasn't necessary because he looked like a White Latino to me even before he mentioned the fact that his great great grandfather was from Spain.

Are African Americans with fair skin and blue or green eyes “passing”? Their DNA is predominantly Caucasian, isn’t it? At what point are they no longer considered “black”?

Dona Drake also went by Rita Rio.

R26 this is not a black man, this is a white man with mixed ancestry.

Stop using this one drop bullshit. Black people are black.

I refuse to spend any time learning the basics of the history of racial definitions and segregation in the USA. I shall just continue making ignorant snarky comments willy nilly, as is my right!

[quote] Are African Americans with fair skin and blue or green eyes “passing”? Their DNA is predominantly Caucasian, isn’t it? At what point are they no longer considered “black”?

One of these twins would clearly be "passing," and the other one would not.

It's really just based on the perception of others, rather than some hard and fast rule.

Another set of twins where one would be "passing," and the other would not.

However, Gabe's curly hair might give him away.

This story just proves that even in this day and age, Americans are still obsessed over race.

R42, you sound bitter and narrow-minded. I don't recall designating you Race Sherriff. Based on your ignorant thinking, Barack Obama and Malcolm X wouldn't be Black.

[quote]Are African Americans with fair skin and blue or green eyes “passing”? Their DNA is predominantly Caucasian, isn’t it? At what point are they no longer considered “black”?

As someone said above, it's really about how you present. Obama presents as a light skinned black man, but he was raised by his white mother and white grand parents. He is just as much white as he is black, but the world around him sees a black man - so he's black. This is why those consume DNA tests warn you before taking them that you may find out something that you may not want to know.

It's not only the coloring, but the features. Meghan Markle did some tweaking to her nose and straightened her hair, yet with dark eyes and hair, presented as white.

Someone with fair coloring but more African features will be seen as black:

R46 girlie, Barack Obama looks black. He is biracial, but with 100% black, African father.

An average African American has around a quarter of European DNA, some have more, maybe even 50%, so a mixed child could be very light.

As for Malcolm X, his parents were African American, but he was heavily mixed. He had more European features than biracial Obama. Biracials mixed with Africans can look more African than a child of two light skinned African Americans, because of recessive genes, that one must have from both sides.

Agree with R48, it is the question of features as much, or even more than color. Meghan doesn't look black, except for her natural hair. When she has her hair done, she looks like Serbian or Romanian woman.

R50 no way. This is the problem with Americans, they can’t distinguish phenotypes other than Northern European ones. In Cuba and Brazil Meghan would be considered mulata, even with soft hair.

R51 I am not an American. I am from Balkans and Meghan could totally pass as a Balkanic woman.

R52 Im sorry,but I’m Cuban, I can distinguish just about any composition and variation in mixed people. I have been in Rumania and Serbia, and the only ones who could possibly look like Meghan are gypsies and still it is a stretch, there is no way that this lady can pass as European, not even a southern European one.

[quote]It's not only the coloring, but the features. Meghan Markle did some tweaking to her nose and straightened her hair, yet with dark eyes and hair, presented as white. Someone with fair coloring but more African features will be seen as black.

Not even Helen Keller would mistake Meghan Markle for being a white woman. Different lighting makes her paler or darker but she is clearly a mixed race African/European heritage woman.

R3 ...

A former bf from OK had cousins who enrolled as tribal members for health care benefits via their other grandmother who had enough native background. When he found out they'd done so, my bf told me "I knew their grandmother when I was a kid. She absolutely considered herself white, looked as white as everyone else!"

I didn't see Rebecca Hall's film Passing. Having seen her as a child actor in The Camomile Lawn and then watched her in countless things over the years I never viewed her as anything as white. I knew she had a famous opera singer mother but didn't realise Maria Ewing was mixed race - Ewing had a Dutch mother and a mixed race American father who came from an enslaved family.

Ruth Negga (Irish/Ethiopian) and Tessa Thompson (Afro Panamanian/Mexican European) are both obviously mixed race.

It does feel strange analysing someone's ethnic make up and I'm not sure I like the idea that you can have a one out of eight great grandparents with African heritage and pasty white skin and that makes you automatically black.

They are black because they have black ancestry and parentage. It's part of their culture and background no matter how they look.

Rebecca is a grifter, trying to milk the fact she had one black great great grandparent-she says that her grandfather was white passing, which means he had predominantly Europesn genes. Passing is idiot term, you look who you are, being "white passing" means just that you have predominantly Caucasian genes.

I remembef Rebecca from Vicky Christina Barcelona, before she became black, because it easn't so faahionable then.

You clearly haven't seen Imitation of Life, you ignorant clownstick

R59 In the times when film was set people were pretending not to be black, nowadays they pretend not to be white.

I had a school friend, we grew up together. He had 8 brothers and sisters. His parents were from New Orleans. They were very light skinned and did not have the typical African American features. They could have passed for Italian, Latino, Spanish, almost anything, really. But his brothers and sisters were every color of the rainbow. They were a very close family. He could have passed for Middle Eastern, but none of them ever chose to "pass." He always said, "we know who we are..."

[quote]They are black because they have black ancestry and parentage. It's part of their culture and background no matter how they look.

But this is how race is treated. Someone can have 87.5% white European ethnicity and be pale skinned and live exclusively in Europe, but one great grandparent being African means they are "black" in the same way that someone born to indigenous Africans is "black".

Rebecca Hall and Lupita Nyong'o are both black.

R61 probably because both parents came from African American communities, so they identified as black.

There is one drop rule of course.

But a white woman with a white father and mother who had one "white passing" mixed race parent (which means she probably has 1/16 of African DNA) claiming to be white passing black is stupid.

R63 my great grandmother was female, does it mean I am trans?

Queer people of color! (All straight, all caucasian.)

R60, that's not true at all.

[quote] Rebecca Hall and Lupita Nyong'o are both black.

I disagree.

According to Rebecca's Wiki, her DNA test came back 91% European and 9% Sub-Saharan African.

Does that make her black? Not to me, it doesn't.

Not by DNA analysis, nor by her outward appearance.

The one drop rule, as has been mentioned, is tired and offensive, created by white Americans who are obsessed with categorizing and defining people based on their own ignorance and hatefulness. It should be eliminated.

Halsey is another good example of "passing."

If she didn't come out and tell you that she had black DNA, then no one would know.

In the 1950's, she would easily be seen as white.

These two footballers played for England tonight and scored in the penalty shootout at the end.

Both are black.

Be whatever ethnicity you feel like posing as when you wake up. Your parents' heritage doesn't matter.

My DNA came back 85 western European, and 12% north Africa and Turkey.

As the late Toni Morrison said, "Definitions belong to the definers, not the defined...".

My DNA says that I'm 70% sub-Saharan African, 20% Northern European, 7% Carib indigenous and 3% Asian. Of course I identify as African American. So should a white appearing person with the amounts of ethnicity I have in reverse, be forced to identify as black? I don't think so.

Why are people like Keanu Reaves and Mark-Paul Gosselaar, both with Eurasian ancestry, allowed to identify as white, when if they had African blood, be forced to be defined as black? Same with actress Kate Beckinsale, who has a Burmese grandparent? I used to believe the white supremacist discourse, but knowing the history of the one-drop rule, not anymore. It has to change.

I knew my family had some African ancestry, but the subject never really came up while I was growing up. I went to Parochial School and identified as English or Scottish from my father's side and Italian from my mother's side.

So, imagine my surprise when I took my DNA test and discovered I was 40% Ashkenazi Jewish from Central & Eastern Europe, especially Ukraine! The next largest segment was 12% England & Northwestern Europe, and only 2% Scottish and Irish.

The challenge is that I'm now in my 70s, and those who could answer some questions about my background are all dead. Was I adopted? I don't think so, because I looked like my mother. Who was this mysterious Jewish relative that I never heard about?

R73, when was someone "forced" to identify as black....lighten up

Surely r75 is parody

It was really funny when I got my DNA results. I'm a light skinned American black guy , so I knew there was going to be some European DNA, I just didn't realize that it was going to be the largest percentage. Turns out I'm like 60% European (mostly British & Irish) 30% Sub-Saharan African and the rest an admixture of Southern European and a skosh of Indigenous American and a skosh unassigned. I tried to get my Mom to take it when she was alive, but she wouldn't.

[quote] The one drop rule, as has been mentioned, is tired and offensive, created by white Americans who are obsessed with categorizing and defining people based on their own ignorance and hatefulness. It should be eliminated.

It has been eliminated. There are no (enforceable) laws mandating a racial identity based on genetic heritage.

Surely r76 is parody

[quote] These two footballers played for England tonight and scored in the penalty shootout at the end.

Who's the guy on the right?

Name, please.

You sound like my nephew r77. I and my siblings are mostly northern European but the boys have Dad's darker hair and brown eyes while our two sisters are naturally blonde and blue eyed like mom.

My older sister's eldest son with her African husband has skin like mine and blue eyes with African facial features (including a much nicer nose) and light brown curly but not quite African hair. People often ask him if he is Israeli. The three other kids she had with that first husband were much darker.

All four of them reinforced the stereotype of taking the best of each race. All beautiful.

This thread reminds me of an episode I saw of “Cold Case” from season 3. In the episode, a promising young black baseball player is murdered with his own baseball bat in 1945. Later on in the episode, we learn that before the murder, the baseball player was in a relationship with who appeared to be a Caucasian woman played by a pre-Mad Men Christina Hendricks. Elinor Donohue played the woman in the present-day scenes (2005, when the episode aired). It turns out that she was actually black, but managed to pass for white (given she was light-skinned) to conceal her heritage due to the obvious prejudice and racism of the time (1945).

It was an interesting episode, but the idea of casting a then younger Christina Hendricks to play a black woman passing for white in 1945 had me scratching my head a little bit. Elinor Donohue, I could understand though.

Ugh, I can't stand colored folks, those high yellows are the worst...

Mariah Carey is considered white(though us black folk claim her)

Alicia Keys is considered black

Rashida Jones is considered white

Kidada Jones is considered black

White society people made these stupid ass distinctions. Because they invented whiteness when they did it.

R82 That ass and hips she got is black.

It’s funny I can’t think of one half black/half white male celeb who society deems as white. Derek Jeter maybe?

Wentworth Miller, R86

R87 yep. That’s it.

I think Christopher Abbott's father is black and Cash Warren.

Yea Cash Warren’s dad is Michael Warren. He isn’t really famous though.

Stephen Graham is 1/4 Jamaican

Vin Diesel. When he first showed up on the scene a lot of people thought he was Italian.

[quote] I can’t think of one half black/half white male celeb who society deems as white.

Maybe nobody thinks making the distinction is worth their time ?

Pinky

Vin Diesel does not pass. I think most people assume he is biracial but he is considered black. I know lots of people who think he is a black Latino.

[quote]Who's the guy on the right? Name, please.

The white guy at R70 is Cole Palmer. His grandfather came to the UK from the Caribbean. The photo below is him with his parents.

R82 there was another Cold Case episode about passing that featured Jonathan Schaech as the passer

Many decades ago the soap opera One Life to Live did a "passing" story . The young woman in question initially pretended to be Italian.

Passing is not just about someone’s looks. These people had to abandon their birth their families and communities and lie about their backgrounds their whole lives. That’s what’s affected their children and grandchildren

There are probably more people in US than you would think that have some African ancestry due to those people that were "passing" and married in white communities.

I have read that three out of four Sally Hemings and Thomas Jefferson children, when freed, lived their lives in white community (without their neighbours and new families knowing it). Only one son continued living in black community and married a black woman. All of the children were practically white having only 1/8 of African blood, since Sally already was only 1/4 black.

[quote] Cole Jermaine Palmer (born 6 May 2002) is an English professional footballer who plays as an attacking midfielder or winger for Premier League club Chelsea and the England national team. He is considered one of the best young players in Europe.

[quote] Palmer is of Afro-Kittitian descent on his father's side of the family. His grandfather emigrated in 1960, while his great-grandparents were part of the Windrush generation, migrating five years earlier. Palmer emblazoned his boots with the flag of England and the flag of Saint Kitts and Nevis.

You'd never know that Cole has African blood, except that his middle name is Jermaine.

I often wondered if the one drop rule came about because, psychologically, they had to figure out how to deal with a bunch of "high-yella" and white appearing enslaved children who either looked like the master or the master's sons. I don't give the wives a pass, but it must have been quite a bitter pill to swallow to walk around the grounds of your plantation seeing a bunch slaves with your husband's eyes and in some cases, skin color.

R102 The one drop rule came into play because slaves were property and blacks 3/5 of a human. Before the one drop rule it was common in Western culture for people to be the race of their mother. The one drop rule furthered this essentially. They weren’t white women birthing black fathered child and if so someone was going to be hung.

It was a matter of economics backed by scientific racism. It allowed more slaves to be created and also made it that the “white” race remain pure.

Pete Wentz

DL fave Joe Mangianello

Wow @R105.

Joe is part black?

It's funny what we will believe about people, just based on appearance and a last name.

Allegedly Channing Tatum is as well, but all of that information has been scrubbed from the internet. But back when he was a model trying to launch a film career his PR team quashed it.

I wonder how Joe felt about the revelation that he is part black?

I'm sure he was shocked, but I wonder if he tried to stop the information from getting out?

Maybe because he thought it might hurt his career, or for other reasons.

Channing Tatum’s background is discussed here:

I recently hooked up with a guy who looked Latino in all his pictures. When I got to his place, I saw he was actually Black, but no biggie because he was still super hot. Nut I did say something like, “Oh, in your photos you look Latino.” He replied, “No, I’m Black.” Then I asked, “Would you be considered high yellow?” I could tell by his expression that I said something wrong, so I asked, “Was that bad?” He said, “Not, if you were another Black man, it wouldn’t be bad,” and we both had a good laugh about it. Truly had no idea that that was a bad thing. Now I know.

[quote]I'm sure he was shocked, but I wonder if he tried to stop the information from getting out?

It's not 1950s Georgia.

Elaine can't figure out if her boyfriend is white or black

R99 has it right. Passing is (or was) an artifact of the one-drop rule. With no middle room for mixed-background people and intense discrimination, those who could might choose to leave their families or communities of origin and establish new identities, sometimes breaking all contact off. Move from the south to Brooklyn, go in the Navy, marry a Filipino woman and live in California and your grandchildren will have no idea about your origin. Nor will your employer or would-be employer. Or the real estate agent who can't or won't sell you a house in a restricted neighborhood. Etc. Etc.

Our somewhat more open society as well as consumer DNA tests are changing that. As well as revealing possible sexual abuse or rape or coercion generations ago.

Before the digital age, it wasn't unheard of for someone to leave home and start a new life with a new identity. In fact, it was quite easy. Now, it's way more difficult unless you have government backing, like witness protection or something. A fair skinned black person with, mostly, European features moves across country in the 50s, they could be anything they want to be.

Btw where has Wentworth Miller’s beautiful weird ass been at. He is so awkward yet so hot.

Jillian Sim is a descendant of Sally Hemmings.

[quote] Then I asked, “Would you be considered high yellow?” I could tell by his expression that I said something wrong, so I asked, “Was that bad?”

I honestly thought he would have asked you to get out. Immediately.

That was so rude.

If you are anywhere under 100 years old, you should have known better.

R117 I kind of said it with a wink, so he knew I wasn’t racist, just being playful (or at least I thought it came off playful) but I didn’t know that that was disrespectful. And now I do, and will never use it again.

So is the term “Redbone” racist?

[quote] It is an interesting phenomenon. And it’s especially interesting now to see an old movie or TV show where the actor is accepted as caucasian but seems to have been mixed race at least.

Like Keanu Reeves? Before he was really famous and he played white boys I don't think people realized he was mixed race.

New Hampshire Doctor and family passed for white--basis of the film, Lost Boundaries

As I mentioned upthread r120, Eurasian people get a white pass. Always have.

Coincidentally TCM is showing a film on just this subject but in the UK.

A murder mystery. Not bad so far. Yet to see if they get preachy and noble.

Dr. Robbins: There's no assurance for me and my kind, Superintendent. I've been black for 38 years, I know. She may have looked white, but Sapphire was colored.

Superintendent Robert Hazard: Your sister was murdered. We'll find out who killed her.

Dr. Robbins: I'm sure that is your intention.

Superintendent Robert Hazard: It is my intention. It's also my job.

R119 no. Keyshia Cole is a redbone and hardly looks half white.

Oh, Peola, i told you not to take that DNA test.

Now, if you will excuse me, i have to get back to my pancake box mix empire.

But I'se your mammy, chile!

I'm fascinated by the question of why, years later, certain mostly white) people playing other races are considered acceptable, in those roles, while others aren't.

For example--original Imitation Of Life--Daughter and mother both played by black actresses. Remake, daughter is played by Susan Kohner, whose father was the Hollywood agent Paul Kohner, and whose mother was Mexican actress Lupita Tovar (who I think was half Irish). Yet I have never heard objections to her playing a white-passing black girl (whose father was a light-skinned black man) However people sneer at Jennifer Jones portraying a Eurasian woman who is half white! I don't get it, Mind you I have no objections to Susan Kohner as Sarah Jane. I love her.

Similarly, you never hear much against Linda Hunt, a white woman from Morristown, New Jersey, playing as Asian man, in The Year Of Living Dangerously. It's Yellowface, but no one cares. Yet people are aghast at Louise Rainer in The Good Earth.

^Mind you I have no objections to any of these performances or performers (every one is excellent).

I did my DNA testing and it was fascinating. I’m Black American but the results showed I’m 25% European. I don’t look anywhere close to white. But I had mostly English, Irish background with some Scandinavian.

See I read that as Racial Hemorrhage.

Julia Sawalha best known for Absolutely Fabulous is mixed race - British/Jordanian, although often assumed to be Indian.

She’s only ever played white Europeans and has done a lot of BBC costume dramas.

She could pass as Arab but what you don’t know you don’t know.

R131 The Levantine people, including Lebanese, Jordanians, Syrians, and Palestinians, are considered White.

The Palestinians need to be demoted.

R131 How could she pass as Arab?

That's like saying Froy Gutierrez could pass as Mexican.

Bet the big old frau would do anything to hide it if she found out her ancestors were from Russia

R136 yep. Now it is hip to have some black heritage. But racism turned to Russophobia.

Funny that you would see idiots who think they are ultra liberal and woke posting the most bigoted, vile Nazi shit about Russians

[quote] That's like saying Froy Gutierrez could pass as Mexican.

Frog

Frop

Froy!

[quote] Allegedly Channing Tatum is as well, but all of that information has been scrubbed from the internet.

He has a Black name, after all.

I'm passing. . . as a cunt

[quote] The Levantine people, including Lebanese, Jordanians, Syrians, and Palestinians, are considered White.

White people will sweep up the dustpan outermost remnants of their race to claim someone as white yet let one person claim cleopatra was black and it shuts down DL.

When they didn’t need the numbers, a drop of non white blood from six generations ago made you mixed race. Now that white people’s numbers are dwindling worldwide, anyone with light brown skin and straight hair is white.

R141 When I was in elementary school in the '60s, we were taught that anyone not African Negro, Asian Oriental or Polynesian, Native American or Australian Aboriginal was Caucasian. So yes, Middle Eastern people, people of India, etc. were considered Caucasian. Not a new concept.

R141 What do you consider someone who is Lebanese? Non-White? One of my friends growing up was Lebanese, no one thought of him or his family as anything but white. Danny Thomas (Lebanese) was considered white, and also Marlo Thomas.

Tell that to the “ Middle Eastern people, people of India” people trying to get mortgages and find jobs in the 60s r142. Indian people were most definitely considered Not White. Middle Eastern people “Arabs” were most definitely considered Not White - with their funny clothes and religions…

R144 I wasn't talking about the practices of banks and employers, I was talking about the official races.

"The world population can be divided into 4 major races, namely white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid."

[quote]While some anthropologists classified Indians as Caucasian, they were non-white, from Asia and could be subject to some discrimination in the United States.

For white people in the United States, who themselves invented the “One-Drop Rule” to define everyone else, white meant from a strict Western European background.

That’s where the whole “Passing” comes from. If you had any black relatives - grandfather, great grandfather - you were BLACK, no exceptions. People who looked white and weren’t even bi-racial who wanted to pass had to hide any bloodline that wasn’t white. The same was true for people with backgrounds that weren’t strictly Western European.

[quote] For white people in the United States, who themselves invented the “One-Drop Rule”

The Southern United States.

[quote] white meant from a strict Western European background.

More precisely Northern European.

The one drop rule is changing, albeit slowly. White people prove every day that they are not superior and that being pure white doesn’t guarantee higher morality, intelligence or human decency. All of us regardless of racial origin are flawed.

R147, it was hardly JUST the south. What do you think White Flight in all major cities in the north was about? That’s why I laugh when people say Indians are white. They certainly weren’t seen that way when they’d buy a house and the neighbors picked up and moved. It wasn’t just about black people moving in. Anyone not of Northern European white, as the poster corrected me above, moving in sent shockwaves through a neighborhood.

My point is that white people set the rules ans to what constitutes being white ages ago and now they’re moving the goal posts and allowing for a very generous definition of what is white and acting as if it has always been that way.

I recall my father telling me about a professor friend of his telling him in the 80s that the neighborhood was ruined because "they were moving in". It wasn't blacks to whom he was referring. It was an Italian-American family. My father ceased his friendship with the professor after that.

Passing is usually reserved for fair-skinned black people, but quite a number of Irish, Italian, and Jewish Americans changed their last names and religious affiliations to pass and never looked back.

[quote]When they didn’t need the numbers, a drop of non white blood from six generations ago made you mixed race. Now that white people’s numbers are dwindling worldwide, anyone with light brown skin and straight hair is white.

Original Arabs and Berbers are not light brown, they are Mediterranean type of white. Many people on Middle east are mixed or not Arab, so they are POC.

Does Syrian president look brown to you?

I find this topic distasteful.

Many American and some Canadian people who were told they were Native American were part Black.

R154 skin color isn’t the absolute arbiter of race or nationality. I think white people have trouble with this because, first, their definition of black is subsaharan black people. I’ve had friends from Turkey and Morocco who ethnically describe themselves as black - especially when encountering white America. I am not saying they are technically correct. But I think most Americans would be surprised by what other “white looking people” choose to define themselves as. And remember these color definitions were put in place by white Europeans to delineiate the purity of their race as compared to the rest of the world - no one else did before.

I found it very hard to believe, although it was true, that my friend from Morocco never saw people through a color lens UNTIL she moved to America. She said people in her family were every shade, and she never made a distinction based on color. It struck her as very odd when she first encountered separating and defining people based on their color

R157 they have learned that claiming to be people of color could bring them more privilege in communication than being plain white. Everybody tiptoes around people of color, so the tide have turned, everyone wants to be one.

Btw. Moroccan can be rather mixed, but Turks are just Caucasian, even thought they can be swarthy.

That’s not true r158. That is a very modern way a thinking. Claiming to be a person of color has only been an advantage in America since the 90s, maybe. They identified as black when it wasn’t to their advantage because that’s how they saw themselves and that’s how they were subsequently treated when they arrived here.

Most white peoples, especially and particularly Americans, love putting people in a box, defining them based on their opinions and beliefs.

People tend to think doors just open in American now because you’re a person of color. Trust me, there could be six qualified black people applying for a job, but once a company has filled their three slots, that’s it, they aren’t hiring anymore. And they are usually all given to women of color. I literally had an employer tell a manager once, “you have enough, no more.”

[quote] Allegedly Channing Tatum is as well, but all of that information has been scrubbed from the internet. But back when he was a model trying to launch a film career his PR team quashed it.

Tatum was raised in the Deep South and he has living relatives. His family probably never acknowledged that any of their heritage was Black so that they could olive as white and escape the bigotry that still exists everywhere but especially in the South. Particularly since his appearance is already suspect.

Rashida Jones (Quincy Jones and Peggy Lipton are her parents) could easily pass

Ruth Negga would not pass, strange casting

^and unfortunate name. It’s like a dare.

I agree r164. The whole time I was watching the movie, I couldn’t get past that she didn’t look white. Rebecca Hall should have played that role.

Hyperactive METH QUEEN talks about his grandmother "passing" as white.

He's irritating as fuck, but his brother looks hot.

And his grandmother was pretty.

He passed.

Will this little kid grow up and try to pass? Note the difference from beginning to end just because of the hair cut.

He’ll be able to pass as much as Harold Ford Jr. can, r169. Maybe with a little more success because his eyes are blue. He looks like a kid version of him.

Eugen.

Not born in the USA, but Depeche Mode lead singer Martin Gore’s father was an African American soldier that he didn’t know about until he was grown.

[quote] White people prove every day that they are not superior and that being pure white doesn’t guarantee higher morality, intelligence or human decency. All of us regardless of racial origin are flawed.

???? Uh...white supremacy doesn't suggest white people are perfect, just better. That white people are flawed has never been in dispute.