Cities that depress you

Flying into Phoenix is so damned depressing.

But driving through Akron, with the burnt rubber stench is an encounter I’ll never forget.

Fucking Dubai. I went on a trip to Uzbekistan last year (what an amazing country, by the way) and had to change planes there. I've never been to the Emirates before so I decided to give the place a couple of days. YUUUGE mistake. It's so fucking humid there you literally have nothing else to do but take cab rides from one air-conditioned mall to another. Lots of shady characters around too. Other UAE cities aren't much better but at least Abu Dhabi has some amazing mangrove forests and Sharjah has great museums. Dubai, on the other hand, has no redeeming features. It makes Las Vegas feel like Paris in comparison.

Most overweight people hate Arizona. They leave stinky grease puddles everywhere they go.

Wherever you live, OP.

How was Uzbekistan R2?

Pittsburgh feels like an invitation to suicide.

There was a superb long-form article about the hugeness and newness and depressing energy-sucking unsustainability of Phoenix in Atlantic a few weeks ago.

Dubai is humid? This surprised me, I figured desert dry conditions.

Toronto

r5 She said it was an amazing country

Newark

R5 Absolutely amazing. Not only is the architecture jaw-dropping but it has the friendliest people I've ever encountered on my trips. Taking trains is especially fun because old babushkas will immediately invite you to sit with them and share their food with you. And I was constantly being approached by young Uzbeki students in the streets, who wanted to chat with me to "improve their English skills". I thought it was some sort of a scam at first but no, it wasn't a scam at all - they literally only want to talk with you. What a friendly bunch they are.

R8 Nope, the coast is humid as hell. It's the interior of the county that's dry. I only visited Al Ain and it was actually hotter there than it was in Dubai (it was around 108 degrees) but because the air there is totally dry it's much more pleasant to walk around than the coastal cities are.

There are only about 4 or 5 large cities in the U.S. that aren’t depressing. If you drive across the U.S. it’s so noticeable. So many emptied out downtowns; suburbs with cookie cutter strip malls and discount stores. The same fast food. Homelessness and begging is growing. And we don’t seem to want to stop the decay.

Burlington Vermont. Even the Church Street Market is depressing these days. Panhandlers, crazies, needles and such on the street... and there is really little to actually do there.

Every time I have to go to Boston for work, I hate it. I find it very depressing, even though many years ago I remember liking it.

R13 As far large cities, I would guess:

Boston, Chicago, Houston, and maybe Charlotte

Also Dallas/Fort Worth is quite depressing

Philadelphia.

Orlando.

Cincinnati.

Trenton

Fresno

Chicago depressed you r16? Why? Was it February? Winter sucks there, but come on, overall it ain't depressing.

Thank you R12!

Augusta, Georgia, home of the Masters golf tournament. The course itself is like a Potemkin village compared to how depressingly seedy the rest of the city is.

There's an open-air sewage pit next to the airport to welcome you to Augusta, and a paper mill across the river to add to the smell. It's broiling hot, jungle humid, and everyone is poor and miserable.

Nanaimo

I went to Phoenix for a few days and hated it. Maybe I just didn’t see the fun/good parts. And the people were rude, too.

r7 thanks. I subscribe to The Atlantic and remember seeing that article but didn't read it at the time (probably because it seemed, well, depressing).

San Francisco is a beautiful city, but the homeless shitting in the streets depressed me. And being chased by crazy people down the street. There were parts I really loved, though.

Orlando was gross and depressing.

I liked Boston a lot, and found the people to be pretty friendly.

I think I need to give Philadelphia another try—I was there for work and didn’t much care for it, but I didn’t see a lot since I was working most of the time. Same for Denver.

R2 Uzbekistan has anti same-sex laws; gay men face several years in prison if convicted. I’m curious if you’re a gay man and if the people who were so friendly to you knew that you were?

Detroit is number 1 on the list. Brussels, the place seems so dirty and dinghy. I couldn't wait to get out of there. Any seaside town in winter.

Akron hasn't smelled like rubber in decades. More depressing is the loss of downtown buildings and their replacement with parking.

Atlanta--nothing much to downtown. Older upscale areas like Druid Hills would be nicer if they weren't such an odd mix of srchitecture.

Memphis--truly grim

Dallas---Assassination land and not much else. Fort Worth isn't as depressing.

Albuquerque---just depressing

Research Triangle---Kudzu and strip malls

Charlotte--devoid of character

Gary, Indiana.

Those poor unfortunate Jacksons.

Los Angeles, although I'd say it's more sinister than depressing per se

^^^I disagree. LA is like all truly great cities, it is rich and vibrant enough that you can make of it what you will. It is one of my favorite cities.

Seattle. I've been there twice and found it boring and depressing, especially the people. It is surrounded by an astonishingly beautiful landscape, however.

[quote] I’m curious if you’re a gay man and if the people who were so friendly to you knew that you were?

I'm as gay as they come but I'm guessing the locals didn't pick up on that because in some remote mountainous village they wanted to find me a bride when they heard I was single. 😁

I can't say I support their official stance on homosexuality but they don't exactly stone gays there (it's more of a "Don't ask, don't tell" kind of place) and I've come to learn not to judge the countries solely by their laws and politicians. If I did that I probably wouldn't be frequenting an American forum like Datalounge or ever visit the US, knowing that 14 US states banned abortion in 2022 and that the majority of your fellow citizens picked one of the most despicable people ever to lead your country back in 2016 (and forgive me if I mistakenly assumed you're from the US, R29). No country is perfect, right?

Winnipeg, Manitoba. It was a bustling hub and gateway to the Canadian west back when railways mattered. It's far from everywhere else and no one goes there unless they are visiting family there. It's a stagnant city. The Government built a 'Human Rights Museum' there as an attraction but it's really not that much of a draw (there was a fuss when it was revealed that they censor the exhibits for different groups i.e. skip the references to LGBT rights for Christian groups. It's also the headquarters of the Royal Canadian Mint where the coins are made but you can see much of the same stuff at the Royal Canadian Mint in Ottawa, which is just hop and a skip from Montreal or Toronto if that really interests you. It's just sad.

R36. I am from the US, my country isn’t perfect, I agree none are. Hillary Clinton got over 3 million more votes than Trump in 2016; he was elected because of the electoral college. It’s appalling he has another chance to be elected president. I do have a lot of disagreement with my govt but it’s not legal to imprison gay men here at least.

Thanks for answering me; I was genuinely curious. I would avoid countries where it’s legal for them to imprison gay men but that’s a personal preference.

Flying into Sudbury, Ontario had to be one of the most depressing experiences. I did so for work frequently, years ago. Not sure if it was the tiny plane coupled with all that limestone rock surrounding you, it seems like a permanently sorrowful place.

r22, I think r16 was listing the 4 or 5 cities he thought r13 meant when he wrote "There are only about 4 or 5 large cities in the U.S. that aren’t depressing...."

[quote] No country is perfect, right?

yeah, um, yeah.

Goldfield Nevada.

Nevada has so many ghost towns full of past glory and present sadness.

Now that I am old, big cities that are filled with tourists and partiers depress me. Non American ones. Berlin, Amsterdam and Barcelona for example. I don't mind small party cities and towns, resorts, etc, although I prefer the working class ones to the chic one. I still like Las Vegas and Miami. I no longer like New Orleans, nor Montreal for that matter. I still like big South American cities. Really hot North African and Asian cities are not depressing.

R7 again -- OP, I found George Packer's essay on Phoenix (R7 link) to be an excellent piece of writing. Depressing but insightful and connecting so many dots about the state of America today.

All you depressives need to seek help. It's not the cities, it's you.

My company is sheer evil and based out of Phoenix. Absolute sociopaths. I was in Philly once and it really felt low vibe and depressed. This summer of 2007. I lived in Boston then and the difference was astounding. I stayed at the Westin downtown... It was not a vibe of a city that I have seen before or since. Pittsburgh felt better than Philly!

The hills in Pittsburgh help. Plus it's a city with no pretensions.

Pittsburgh was so small! Ad walkable! And the Westin-William Penn? Was a beautiful hotel--- This was the late 90's and I was visiting my buddy who went to school at Duquesne.

William Penn hotel rooms have LOW ceilings.

Some of you bitches have an interesting definition of "depressing." Dubai is many, many, MANY things, but depressing is not one of them.

[quote]Dubai is humid? This surprised me, I figured desert dry conditions.

Yep, it's humid. I believe that's also true for all of the Persian Gulf petrostates, and it's *because* of the gulf. That said, it's actually fine in the winter months: it's still humid, but high temps are usually around 80º, so you don't really notice. (Same with Abu Dhabi.)

[quote]There are only about 4 or 5 large cities in the U.S. that aren’t depressing.

R13, I'm truly curious which cities you don't think are depressing. They all have suburbia, boring-ass strip malls, boring chain restaurants, homeless encampments (obviously disproportionately on the West Coast, but still), dying or dead malls, and endless banality outside of the urban core. Fortunately I'm not quite as cynical as you yet, and I'm fine with more or less normal problems as long as a city's core appeal remains intact.

[quote]Nanaimo

Seriously?!? The only thing that depresses me about it is that I'm not there literally right now! (and for the remainder of the summer) Why on EARTH did you cite it? (I'll grant that it's pricier to visit there than elsewhere on Vancouver Island, but still.)

[quote]Dallas---Assassination land and not much else.

Maybe 15 years ago, when downtown Dallas was mostly filled with completely empty 50 story towers – LOTS of them – but you clearly haven't been there lately. I'll grant that its suburbs are filled with Trump-loving Karens and bigots, but Dallas proper has done a true 180-degree turn since then. I used to HATE Dallas, but I'm there once a month to visit an ailing relative and I've been consistently surprised by how much it's improved.

[quote]R2 Uzbekistan has anti same-sex laws; gay men face several years in prison if convicted. I’m curious if you’re a gay man and if the people who were so friendly to you knew that you were?

I'm not R2 and haven't been to Uzbekistan, but there are MYRIAD reasons not to visit it that have zilch to do with homosexuality (and btw in practice they only fine people). The biggest one: they still somehow allow slavery! Well over a million enslaved people are stuck there. Uzbekistan is also on Human Rights' Watch's list of the ten WORST countries for human rights violations. (Not sure why they aren't more punitive towards gays.) I'll be blunt: I'd feel WAY safer at any given location in Dubai than any given location in Florida. They hate queers, leftists AND common sense, and unlike in Dubai, they have no problem inserting their jackboot into your face if you give a redneck any lip.

I'm biased because I'm from Boston but can't believe it would be singled out as depressing by R15 compared to other American cities. It's walkable and it's got a relatively high IQ. as US cities go. Boston is arguably the most European-feeling city we've got in the States.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

R50 People can have their own opinions.

r50 All that diarrhea of the keyboard, and you still chose to write "that I'm not there literally right now." "literally" there, as opposed to just "there."

Your attempt at superiority failed hilariously.

I agree about Phoenix - there are a few pockets of life - they've really built up Mesa around ASU and areas of Scottsdale. But otherwise, it's endless driving and sooo spread out.

Although not a city, I find Orange County in California to be extremely depressing and can't understand why anyone would live there. Either very wealthy or dumpy and struggling - not much in-between.

It has all the worse qualities of LA - looks-oriented, showy, status-oriented (sportscars, fake boobs, plastic surgery, diamonds) with none of the good ones. No culture, cosmopolitan atmosphere, history or interest of LA. Lots of gated communities - no foot traffic - everyone drives everywhere.

Oh and Riverside County is depressing as fuck on the West side of San Jacinto mountains. Warehouses, run-down areas, strip malls, hot as fuck, basic restaurants, no entertainment, takes forever to drive someplace interesting and horrible traffic.

R51- I live up in the seacoast of NH now, but I had never ever felt so good to return to Boston after being in Philly for 3 days! Boston was on another level, despite any of it's negatives-

Detroit handily tops this list. My dad grew up there, after my granddad got a job working at Ford after WWII. We have literal thousands of photos of a thriving metropolis, most with an address penciled on back; a Google Street View search for 95% of them today, however, will produce nothing but thousands upon thousands of empty lots with houses bulldozed long ago. I know "blight" and "urban renewal" were pretexts for "let's route the Interstate Highway System through America's Black neighborhoods and displace hundreds of thousands of people," but Detroit had *actual* blight back in the '80s & '90s when even some of its grandest mansions were being used as crack houses.

To be fair, its downtown has improved markedly, albeit thanks largely to the efforts of Dan Gilbert, the billionaire founder of Quicken Loans (now Rocket Mortgage). He's bought up many of downtown Detroit's worst-off buildings, many of which recall the grandeur of Lower Manhattan's early 20th-century skyscrapers. But it still has a long way to go.

[quote]Your attempt at superiority failed hilariously.

Since I wasn't "attempting" anything in the first place, it seems a tad silly to slam me for whatever reason, but hey, you do you!

Milwaukee. I had to go there on a business trip in the late 90s. It was awful - old, decaying, and super depressing.

Agree on Milwaukee -- the most unpleasant dull city in America. Only worthwhile if you like (bad) beer, (fatty) cheese, and the Packers.

R50 Nanaimo is beautiful but full of drug addicts, homeless people, rednecks, asshole tourists and the perpetually impoverished. Lots of people seem to get trapped there. Growing up there gave me a grim view. Also there’s not much to do aside from outdoors activities.

Detroit has an amazing music, club, museum and arts scene. The DIA is the fifth largest art museum in the western hemisphere and is mind-blowing.

Its downtown has seen some much-needed burnishing and is an amazing collection of Chicago School, Art Deco, Mid-Century and Brutalist buildings.

The only thing about it that is depressing to me is that so few people seem to realize what a goddam treasure it is and has the capability of being.

Dubai is vile. And to the poster who says it may be many things, but depressing it is not - banality and evil are depressing.

Athens is a southern European hellhole. Loud and dirty with too many transients.

I found Boise extremely depressing

Many on The DL would disagree about Milwaukee being unpleasant and dull.

Colorado is so beautiful with such friendly people and then there's Colorado Springs.

Yeah, Colorado Springs, the indoctrination center for White Supremacist Pilots for the AF.

I can't imagine living in a city where four or five months out of the year it's nearly impossible to spend extended periods outside (eg Phoenix). That itself feels depressing.

Bentonville, Arkansas

WalMart, Duggars and Stepford Wives

[quote]Detroit has an amazing music, club, museum and arts scene. The DIA is the fifth largest art museum in the western hemisphere and is mind-blowing.

No, Detroit *had* an amazing all-around arts scene. You can't have one without an essential ingredient Detroit is still missing: people. Also, Detroit's '50s-era "urban renewal" included the wholesale bulldozing of one of the largest Black neighborhoods in America, second only to Harlem for its jazz scene. The city's entire Black Bottom neighborhood – and no, racist bitches, it has nothing to do with ass-fucking and everything to do with fertile black soil – was obliterated by the construction of I-375, built solely for the purpose of transporting upper-middle-class white people to their equally lily-white suburbs.

That said: yes, the DIA is truly mindblowing, but if good museums alone could save a city, Philadelphia wouldn't be America's largest open-air fentanyl market. (The steps scene in "Rocky" was filmed at the Philadelphia Museum of Art, and the Rocky statue introduced in "Rocky III" still stands there today.)

[quote] I found Boise extremely depressing

I can believe this.

Several years ago, a friend and I did a road trip from Washington state to New Mexico. We drove through the southwest corner of Idaho, stopping at a diner. To this day, I can't remember the name of the town (in Idaho). My friend is now dead, so I can't ask him.

Point is: it was a horrible little place and we felt unwelcome there. All of the waitresses were in different stages of pregnancy, is what I remember. And rude.

Pocatello

Visiting family in Houston. What a hot, humid, concrete hell hole! That humidity is off the charts

R70, I wasn't going to say anything the first time you mentioned it but you mentioned it again so I will. There were plenty of White neighborhoods bulldozed in the 1950s and 60s to make way for highways. You really lose credibility when only one side of the story is told to promote a racial narrative that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Seneca Village is another example. There are signs about it all over Central Park. They fail to mention that 200 White people lived in that village and over 1,000 White people were also displaced in creating the park. Cities grown and developed, people are displaced. This is not shocking news.

[quote]Milwaukee. I had to go there on a business trip in the late 90s.

Well, THIRTY years later it has a vibrant art scene, beautifully repurposed late 19th C. building stock thriving wth restaurants and retail. We love going up there once a year for a quick weekend. It's very fun.

Albuquerque NM

Lakeland FL

Dundalk MD

Renton WA

I disagree with Cincinnati. I lived there for ten years and really liked it - although that was 30 years ago. Freezing in the winter, though.

R75, I went to school there in the mid-80s and loved the place. Fantastic neighborhoods, a thriving downtown, beautiful architecture, good restaurants and bars, etc. I don't think it ever deteriorated like some other midwestern cities.

- R65

R65 if you actually read that thread, you'd see that most of the posters are saying that Milwaukee is a shit hole.

New York

London

Paris

Munich. Everybody loves pop music.

I like most of the rust belt cities mentioned - but I am from one of them and appreciate the renaissance I've seen in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit and Milwaukee.

"Depressing" is not something I'd usually think about a city, but I'd say aside from the obvious sadness of a place like Gary, Indiana, the town I found blah was Indianapolis. There's a few nice little pockets but the downtown feels very boring and anodyne, almost like a mall that pretended it was a city.

Oh, wait. I'd also add Buffalo to that. It might be the weather there, but downtown Buffalo is a rust belt city that I *don't* think has seen a lot of improvement. I was last there about 8 years ago and I wanted to take a giant scrub brush and bucket and hose down the entire downtown. It just had that dingy feeling everywhere.

I can understand Colorado Springs on the list - again, cute pockets here and there but it's so suffocatingly fundie that it can drive you crazy.

[quote] Milwaukee is a shit hole

Milwaukee is like so many "old" cities - segregated old rust belt cities - where part of it is really nice, maybe even new....and the poor parts are even poorer and more run down than they were 20-25 years ago.

El Paso, Texas. Has next to no trees or greenery, it's filled with crime and nearly everyone I know from there is messed up in some way

I can't make my way through that Phoenix essay. George Packer is such a boring writer, the whole thing feels padded

Does everything still close down on Sundays in Salt Lake City? That's depressing. What if you need to get your errands done on the weekend?

Also, I dislike it when places have state-run liquor stores. That's depressing. It doesn't make the whole city or town depressing, but it's a strike against the city.

DLers are a bunch of fattos who live in mental gay ghettoes in a world that no longer exists.

“I went to _____ when I was 9 and it was a shithole and also my parents didn’t let me eat all the sugar packets at Shoneys”.

Get the fuck over it.

Gary Indiana. Not Louisiana, Paris France, New York or Rome. But Gary Indiana

St. Luis.

Yonkers- it's now just an extension of the Bronx

[quote] Lakeland FL

Omg my mother lived in Lake Placid. She didn’t feed alligators like Betty White but one day when I was there my brother in law and nephew came back from fishing and said all the trees next to the lake were being bulldozed because the town was putting up a wall. Alligators kept climbing onshore and raiding people’s yards, eating their pets.

She was easily talked into things by her family. Her sister talked her into moving there because she was lonely. My mother said, “I didn’t realize I was moving to the wrong side of the tracks.” The first time I visited I literally drove over the railroad tracks and said, “Damn this place is a shithole! How could you not know this was the wrong side of the tracks?” There was a sign for a housing development that looked like it was straight out of Back to the Future Part 2. She had to pay for a streetlight every month.

R86, I was in Salt Lake City for the first time about a month ago. I arrived on a Sunday night so I have no idea if everything is closed. It was really not what I expected, in a good way. I was there only for two days, but I didn't find it depressing at all.

R87 so true “When I drove through there in 1984 it was so depressing.”

Desert Hot Springs...all those high desert towns are fucking creepy.

I like Phoenix. The desert is beautiful and they have excellent Mexican food on every corner. The trick to enjoying Phoenix is to get an nice Airbnb McMansion with a pool, sometime between November to February.

Vegas on the other hand is depressing. It's a magnet for the trashiest people in the country, the surrounding desert is ugly and the strip looks terrible in the light of day. It's the worst major city in the southwest, in my opinion.

R92 Omg, I just realized you meant Florida. I was afraid you meant NY.

R92 Sundance is right over the mountain

Burlington VT (in recent years)

Philly.

Washington, DC (because of the people)

San Antonio.

Dallas: the most conceited city in the U.S. And the culture is stalled in the 1990s. They are very proud of their sprawl, but bitter as a group.

Houston: the rumors about there being no zoning laws is true. It’s a complete mess. And the industrial culture has ugly-fied the city in all areas. Mold everywhere. And no one cleans it up.

Kansas City: I’ve known three people in my life that I would consider psychopaths. All three came from Kansas City.

Any city in Florida: lived there. Couldn’t get away fast enough. And now all of Trump’s minions are flocking there. Look at who they elected as governor.

Phoenix: I used to vacation there and I liked it at one point. But the vibrance is gone. The arts are gone. The resorts are struggling to make it. And again, like Florida, has been destroyed by its own politics.

Seattle: I’m as progressive as anyone I know, but seriously there are homeless camps under EVERY bridge. It’s really depressing.

R95 The desert is not ugly... it is the desert. Red Rock Canyon state park has spectacularly beautiful vistas, canyons, mountains, and trails. I don't, however, understand how Las Vegas even happened. It's unsettling.

Add to the list: Tijuana

I second Tijuana. I spent all of 10 minutes there in 1995 (I was in San Diego for a conference). The poverty and sight of children begging and selling candy on the street shocked me. We now have families and children begging and selling candy on the streets and subway of New York City.

the natural landscape of Arizona veers wildly from endless nothing to tremendous beauty (my parents live at the base of the Catalina mountains part of the year), but the built environment is pretty pointless and ugly. But I'd say that (ugly cities, ugly towns) about most of the US, to be honest. Americans had a tabula rasa after wiping out the native population but we mostly made of hash of things.

R102, take a Google Earth look at Brazil, Mexico or any Latin American country.

The average American town is paradise in comparison.

Think I'm a reactionary?

Look at any small Australian or New Zealand town.

Even uglier.

Children selling candy on the NYC subway, r101. Wow, NYC sounds exactly like Tijuana. I miss the good old days when not a single poor person lived in NYC. Too bad poverty was introduced to the city a few years ago.

Syracuse, NY. Depressing is exactly how I would describe it from my college years nearby. Buffalo is worse, but I haven't spent as much time there. They are both prototypical rust belt cities in my mind.

When did you last tour Australia and New Zealand and visit “any small … town”? I’m curious.

Oh, and Google Earth doesn’t count, by the way.

Hideous, R103.

Awful, R103

Dreadful, R103

A journey into hell, R103

Horrific, R103

Unrelieved ugliness, R103.

But I’m sure that you know better, R103, playing with Google Earth on a Saturday night.

R104, you are a sad idiot if you don't see the difference.

Las Vegas

Springfield, MA. A vibrant, busy place in wMA that has been drained of life by outside forces. It's been hollowed out of solid, unexciting, union and clerical work since the 1960s. And then there was the white flight of the 1970s when school busing was enforced. Since the 1990s, changes in the banking/finance industry have hollowed out the last of the big employers in the region.

An MGM casino came to the city just before COVID and it has never produced the corporation's promise of jobs or the city's rhapsodic talk of revitilization to the downtown.

It's truly a sad minority/majority place in 2024. Springfield is the case study for how to ruin a small, functioning, safe, pleasant urban space (along with its residential/suburban neighborhoods) within 50 years.

Munich. Everybody loves paprika chips.

St. Louis

Left when I turned 18. Haven't been back in decades.

Bucharest: I can feel the ghosts of Ceausescu roaming the razed streets.

Needles, California. Picture Breaking Bad. In my hour long visit, I saw many abandoned motels and a meth head pushing a shopping cart. The museum did have Charles Schultz memorabilia and that was interesting.

"That one town I visited once decades ago"

Is the casino completely automated, r115? If it's open, it probably created jobs.

R121, casino is NOT completely automated, yes, it's created jobs... but when a casino corporation begins making overtures to a (usually) economically depressed town, there are big promises.

MGM Springfield never took off as the company expected (so they now say).

Seattle at night is depressing.

[quote] economically depressed town, there are big promises.

Same with stores. Remember Home Depot? It was a revelation. The store hired experienced contractors to work there and had plenty of happy, smiling employees ready to help you. My cousin’s wife got a job in kitchen renovation and she was so stoked. Loved the coworkers, loved the atmosphere. Very lively with lots of customers.

Three years later one third of the staff was laid off. Another two years and half the remaining staff was let go. No more fulltime hours. No more routine weekly schedule. All female employees except checkout girls were let go. Then came self checkout and only 2 females remained at the store.

R117, I posted about St. Louis. I'm curious why you found it depressing. I was only there a short time but the overall impression was of economic depression and a seedy, neglected air of shabby gentility sliding even further into poverty. The downtown area seemed really dead at night despite efforts, at that time, to revitalize the riverfront area. This was back in the mid 90s.

Salamanka Mexico. Th oil refinery spews a noxious yellow odor that coats the cement bunkers in a yellow ooze. Spray paint reaches up as high as one can reach from standing on the ground and covers most surfaces.

During the mid 80s I found NY unbearably depressing. Now I really don't. I like most cities (even Tulsa) but the shadow of Trumpist insanity that looms over so many of them is profoundly depressing. Memphis is depressing nowadays, and Nashville too. I used to live there and it has become so much more sophisticated and frankly gay than it used to be but you can feel the shadow of the Nazi republicans of Tennessee just wanting to kill all gay people looming there in the shadows awaiting their signal. The violence they are planning is so real and so visceral.

Utica, New York. Forced to spend the night there on a road trip. Oy, what a shithole.

I second Boise, ID. Same story, we spent a night there, and everyone we met seemed like inbred mouth breathers.

Somehow when we got to Montana, it all changed and the people and towns were very charming and had the right small town vibe. I'm not sure what it is about Idaho just over the stateline.

I'll agree with the poster above about Indianapolis. There's no 'there' there. Nothing of interest and flat as a pancake. Outside of the hills in the southern portion, Indiana is void of any interest. It WISHES it could be Milwaukee or Cleveland or Pittsburgh - and that's not a very high bar.

I agree with the post above about Desert Hot Springs and other high desert towns - but they're not really 'cities' in my mind. And DHS is across the highway from Palm Springs and the other CV cities - so it's really a less affluent part of a larger metro area.

For being a large metro, Philadelphia lacks energy and character for me. And maybe it's just the people I met, but - wow, I've met a lot of brash, big-mouthed, annoyingly tough-talking people from Philly. I will say I enjoyed my time in the gay bars there.

r127 funny you mention Tulsa. I only spent a couple of nights there, but I didn't find it depressing (and objectively, I feel I should have).

[quote]I'll agree with the poster above about Indianapolis. There's no 'there' there. Nothing of interest and flat as a pancake.

But it has ME and my fried egg titties!

R94, Desert Hot Springs is not in the high desert. You're thinking of Hesperia.

Las Vegas is depressing as hell.

Philly is not so bad. Until you get to formerly nice neighborhoods now trash strewn and partially boarded up (e.g along Ridge and Germantown avenues). But there is lots of transformation elsewhere.

R132 - true - but its on the road up there. Seems to have more in common with Yucca Valley and Joshua Tree type of living than other parts of CV.

R133 - Agreed, Las Vegas has to be near the top. Outside of the strip, it's run down and the residents are very Florida-like: old retirees or rednecks and people with little education who can earn decent $ working in the casinos. Outside of Vegas there is....NOTHING. There are a couple of nice areas - but lots of addicts of all kinds.

Then you have literally 100,000 drunk visitors who want to get out of control arriving every day.

Indianapolis has been a completely useless garbage town since the Unicorn Club closed.

Modest, CA

Even the word Indianapolis brings to mind “flat, unremarkable and larger than you think.” I’ve never been then there, but that’s the impression I get.

Sorry, meant Modesto.

A lot of London was quite dreary once we were out of Mayfair and the "nice" areas. Rows on rows of rowhouses all identical and some parts looked like they were straight out of the early seasons of Call the Midwives.

Indianapolis has some fine architecture and the art museum is beautifully designed with a significant collection. Its decorative arts collection is in an old belt of Gatsby-era estates that rival any in the Midwest.

The old train station is great, ditto the library and the spectacular art deco hotel. The war memorial is the best of its type outside of DC.

Hell, the Knights of Columbus building is a Gothic Revival colossus of the sort seldom encountered this side of the Atlantic.

Not exactly Rome, but not a complete dump by any means.

I have not been there but the idea of Cairo, Illinois is depressing enough. The town has lost nearly 90% of its population and has nothing to offer other than a couple historical sites at the confluence of the Illinois and Ohio rivers. Many online accounts of people stopping and feeling like they were in the twilight zone. It’s very blighted and certainly has seen better days.

Cairo is an extreme case. I wonder what caused it to fail - it would seem to be ideally located in terms of river traffic.

R135 Only it's not. I grew up there. Wasn't much different from a city in California, Utah, Arizona. We had a normal life same as anyone else, and we could enjoy the strip anytime we wanted. Your city with its can't walk down the street with a beer laws, and everything being closed at 10 PM is fucking weird. Vegas is alright.

R140, I was shocked at the ugliness and incoherence of London. That said, Mayfair was absolutely delightful - all those small green squares.

And Wren's churches are sublime.

Right outside the strip it's run down, even north of the strip is run down but you didn't get far enough out if you think all of Vegas looks like that.

Dubai is at the top of the list for me. Vile, vulgar, soulless, with the addition of horrible temperatures. And the only thing worse than the native rich population is the expat rich population, who seem to love it precisely because they can legally rape the maid.

I'd rather be a junkie in a Newark jail then king, queen and jack shit of Dubai.

Galveston

Beaumont

Shreveport

Monroe, La

Jackson, Ms

R6, I love Pittsburgh - it has the classic downtown of a Superman comic and the garden suburbs of a Wodehouse story.

You might want to give Bakersfield a second chance on a night when Kevin Harvick’s Kern Raceway is having car races. I know it sounds like a night in redneck Heaven, and it is, but it’s ridiculously fun, too, if you like a lot of noise and some precision driving.

I drove down from Oregon for no other purpose than to watch the drag-a-boat segment and the people next to me were friendly and informative and we all yelled a lot.

I know, I know, lowbrow stuff but it was intense and dramatic and a window into a whole ‘nother world.

Agree, R149, Pittsburgh is a bit down at the heels in places but it's authentic and livable.

Moose Jaw SK

Bakersfield, Fresno, and Modesto all got mentions, but not the most depressing city in the Central Valley, Stockton? I took my late mother there for their annual Asparagus Festival 15 years ago. Depressing and this was before it got worse. Economically depressed with a terrible crime rate where anyone with the means gives in a gated community. They recently had a serial killer preying on the homeless.

R153 University of the Pacific Campus, and the waterfront, give Stockton the picturesque edge over Modesto, Manteca (lard city), Fresno and B-Field.

The Asparagus Festival was held on the waterfront. I'm sure it's improved since then because it's supposed to be their crown jewel, but it was on the "meh" side.

One thing that blows me away is that Fresno's population surpassed Sacramento's in the last census.

R141 - Oh a war memorial AND a Knights of Columbus building? Well - why didn't you say so! Those truly do make a city.

I don't think you realize how far down the barrel you are scraping for anything interesting to write about in Indianapolis.

I lived in Bloomington for five years. Indianapolis is sprawling blah. Back then (1988), it was the 13th largest city in the country. It didn't really have a city presentation or feel to it. Apparently, outlying suburbs kept getting annexed to increase the population size.

One thing about the area that adds to its depressing nature is that the humidity it the atmosphere can get so bad that it could be steel gray for days on the summer.

R156, I am an architectural historian.

I find architecture, urbanism and the built environment interesting.

If you don't, good for you.

Omaha Nebraska has a slight rust belt feel in the old parts and the new parts have sprawl that truly is absurd. It’s just wide medians and excessive road setbacks, and an 8 lane elevated road that’s not even the highway as a main drag. More strip malls than a frau could need. McMansions you can’t even jog from unless you want to play frogger.

The B list .01% super rich in Courchevel give it a sinister vibe. A pity because it's beautiful with good skiing. If you stay in a private home and brownbag your ski lunch it's fine, but anything public is filled with creeps. Saint-Tropez is similar but maybe the net worths are lower.

Those photos of Australia make it look like a Tijuana-esque hellhole. I wonder if that country has children selling candy on public transit. R101/r104 saw that in NYC and she still hasn't recovered. Imagine! Children selling candy on a subway! I can't think of anything more upsetting. The world has truly gone to hell if children are selling candy without a business license.

The entire central valley of California is a disaster. The valley cities are blowtorch hot in the summer. They can be 105 plus every day for 3 months.

Yes. Sacramento is facing 10 consecutive days of near 110° temperatures like we did a couple of years ago in September.

Just unreal to someone who grew up here in the 70s. My city has become the poster child for climate change with torrential rains, record rainfall and 65 mph winds two years on a row in January.

I lived in Tornado Alley for 20 years, but I was never scared as I was with those two violent storms these last couple of years. I thought my metal awnings would tear off and harm someone. So many beautiful, historic redwoods and Douglas firs decimated all over.

I've never understood why anyone would pay insane California state incomes tax to live in Bakersfield. Why not just move to Vegas?

Do you really believe wealthy corporate ranchers, farmers, or processors in Bakersfield pay anything close to "insane California state incomes tax," dear, sweet naive, r164?

I was referring to average people, who surely also live there.

Fresno is pretty great, actually. It has long suffered criticism, partly due to the sound of the name.

It has a depressed downtown that has become quite a bit more revitalized, and there are many charming neighborhoods with cute and affordable houses. I've got friends there and it's a lot of fun to visit. Also, the gay community there is very diverse and high in numbers, down to earth and intelligent.

People need to revisit some of these foggy notions about what makes a town depressing.

Anywhere with months of hell-adjacent heat, like Las Vegas and Phoenix are depressing to me. I'd prefer hell rather than living hell-adjacent.

[QUOTE]I was referring to average people, who surely also live there.

So, you are saying average people, who also live there, are fortunate to pick up the burden when their neighbors' corporate overseers refuse fair taxes?

[quote]For being a large metro, Philadelphia lacks energy and character for me.

IMHO, the one thing Philly has is character. It hasn't had the soulless corporate take-over that NYC suffers. It still has a funky working class vibe.

Yeah, it's a shit hole but with great food and lots of culture.

Let me guess, R161 - Tijuana is your reference point because crossing the border for a couple of hours is the only time in your life that you’ve left the USA.

Las Vegas is extremely depressing. More so now, than when it was in the early to mid 90s and then, still affordable. Downtown was still something to see. Now it's just cheap, fake facades and copies of things and copies of people that may look good, but have no soul. The city has no soul, it's all a big fake. It steals people's dreams and their money.

The Central Valley/burbs of Sacramento are indeed, very depressing. Modesto, Stockton, no thanks. I love Sacremento itself, it has some great history but the surrounding area is horrid. Bakersfield and Visalia are also included in this hell on earth feeling.

I didn't find Memphis or Milawaukee depressing. There's an old soul to them, but there's some really good music and food in Memphis and good food and friendly people in Milwaukee. I found New Orleans depressing and it has an undercurrent of evil - darkness - to it. It's hard to describe. But it's there. Parts are beautiful - but such squalor all around it.

[quote]So, you are saying average people, who also live there, are fortunate to pick up the burden when their neighbors' corporate overseers refuse fair taxes?

You are absolutely fucking exhausting.

R166 Property taxes. CA has low property taxes, in part due to Prop 13.

Downtown neighborhoods of Sacramento are some of the most pleasant blocks in the country. (the burbs are scary hellscapes)

[QUOTE]You are absolutely fucking exhausting.

Please, school me and tell me why.

Any town along the N.J. Turnpike.

Fresno?!?! Nobody goes to Fresno anymore!

Yes they do. Fresno has the underground gardens.

OTTAWA has issues but it is liveable now. Back in the 1970s-90s it was a shithole. Still it feels like a collection of suburbs in search of a real city.

Indianapolis is dreadful and depressing. I've been back several times and it hasn't gotten any better. There are much better art museums in the Midwest---Chicago, Cleveland, Toledo. I've seen a couple different incarnations of Union Station---the first renovation was particularly terrible--the space was crowded and there was no good circulation to shops in back. I stayed in the trainshed/hotel, which was very oddly laid out.

Love Ottawa and in particular the Bywater market.

In dy is fine. You need to know what attractions to go to and what to avoid.

Fres-YES.

I don't know why San Antonio is on the list. I quite enjoy every time I go. My niece lives there and doesn't need a car and she loves it but to each his own.

Boise is so weird. You'd think the denizens would be happy in their white supremacist piece of paradise, but they are all so sketchy, gruff and weird. Like fat meth heads.

Nothing tops Atlantic City for depressing. Nothing.

Deplorables are angry, unhappy people but misplace their anger R185. They're mad but don't know why so they lash out at the easiest targets, the "others". Same way Germans blamed their problems on Jews.