Do most adults with Cluster-B personality disorders realize something is wrong with them?

[quote]She pretty much makes the life of everyone around her hell.

What does she do OP?

r1, she's always angry at people over something, and makes it widely known.

Recently she started berating people publicly over group emails, and two different people were able to raise formal complaints about her to the Dean of the Faculty so that it went on her permanent record. She's stopped for now from the public attacks (and was abashed for a while about them, especially when the Dean let everyone know this woman had been out of line). But you can tell she still seethes at almost everyone who disagrees with her about anything.

Even if they realise it, they don't care because the whole fucking world rewards psychos the most and so they often come far in their respective fields.

Even if they realize something is wrong with them, it's for a short moment before the cognitive dissonance and shame becomes too overwhelming, and they find a way to blame the other person or group. Some of them never have a second of self-awareness.

In their minds they are better than everyone else. And always a victim. While simultaneously being the biggest, cruelest bullies on planet earth. The problem in their minds is everyone else.

Does this woman teach anthropology?

r6: no.

No, OP.

What R4 said.

I know someone so fucked up that they don't even know what's happening most of the time. Yet they always remember that it's someone else's fault.

Mary, you should get a hobby and keep your nose free of the ****DRAMA!**** at your workplace.

I didn't say it would be easy.

Forget it, Jake—it’s Academiatown.

In my experience, no. They are unable to admit even partial responsibility for anything. Which is why they're perpetually angry with other people.

She just needs a good fuck. Slip one of the better looking grad students $50 to plow that dusty bowl.

Feel free to post nude photos here of all the potential candidates for the job. We'll help you select the weiner.

Why do people get TENURE? They then just do what they want, or nothing, teachers think their shit doesn't stink, most are crazy anyway, I knew that when I was a kid, it draws freaks and criminals.

They think everybody else is just like they are.

R16 hit the nail on the head. Teenagers usually go through a phase where they think everyone is just like they are. It takes full development of the frontal lobe to get past that stage but for whatever reason (usually drugs), it never happened with these people.

“You’re worthless! WORTHLESS LITTLE SHIT. After all I’ve done for you…”

My friends in academia describe the behavior of their colleagues and it makes me think that mental illness is absolutely rampant among college faculty.

No they don't believe they are ever in the wrong. The other person is wrong or the other person "made" them to do whatever they did that was wrong.

Each of us has a side to ourselves that we cannot see.

Some people are aware of their disorders and others are not. I have a personality disorder and cannot be in a romantic relationship nor can I work in a small office or workplace with only two or three other people. I cannot be a parent except to a pet. I know that sometimes, many times, I am "the problem." However, after years of therapy and humiliating experiences, I've learned to try to manage my responses to adverse situations.

On the other hand, my mother was a textbook narcissist and nothing was ever her fault. She would also deny the insults and emotional abuse she directed at us kids. She claimed her upbringing was idyllic but I have my doubts.

Can you move, OP? You're right in my eyeline. Thank you.

My mother thought everyone else was crazy or wrong, but never her.

My 50 year old stepdaughter: diagnosed Bipolar 1, was involuntarily institutionalized after driving 48 hours all over Texas in a paranoid state, has had all her partners/husbands leave her, stoned every time I see her, talked about her polyamory parties in front of her son, ran through a 1M inheritance from her mother as “real estate investments.” But stopped speaking to me when I told her the last 70,000 she demanded from me (I handle her dad’s finances, as he is in early stage dementia) and told me I was managing her dad’s care (he will remain at home as long as possible, which I hope is all the way to the end of his life). She always knows better than everyone else, despite the fact that she has the maturity of a 16 year-old. She may have a Cluster B diagnosis for all I know (Borderline? NPD? Who knows? Who cares?)

I’ve decided never to have any direct contact with her again. She hasn’t bothered to check in on her dad (there are other relationships she could contact if she cared.) I guess once it was clear the money train was done, she lost any motivation to pretend to care about anyone other than herself and her snotty brat (whose father has PTSD and is still a more responsible parent than she is—they share custody but he was smart enough never to marry her).

And yes, I have all legal bases covered—power of attorney, medical proxy, legally married.

OP, is her name Amy "Boom Boom" Bishop?

[quote] But stopped speaking to me when I told her the last 70,000 she demanded from me (I handle her dad’s finances, as he is in early stage dementia) and told me I was managing her dad’s care (he will remain at home as long as possible, which I hope is all the way to the end of his life).

One of the best things about people with these kinds of personality disorders is that they always think they're punishing you when they stop speaking to you, and it's usually a huge relief.

R19, As someone who has been in academia for 22 years, I can tell you that your sense is correct. I do want to add that I've met some lovely, level-headed folks in academia. But I've also met some of the most self-absorbed people you will ever find. I think even people in Hollywood would say "wtf?"

Personality disorders run RAMPENT in academia.

Am I the only one who didn't know that Cluster A, B, C designations?

Does that mean I'm Cluster A?

The bitch upstairs knows she has BPD, she's officially diagnosed with it and goes back and forth between 'I may Have BPD but I have cured myself and this is all your fault and I am the innocent victim in this' to 'I have BPD and therefore nothing is my fault because I am mentally ill'

I actually, truly, fucking hate her. And am repulsed by her very existence.

r30, A is schizoid types, B is Narcissists, Borderlines etc (the ones who when untreated will make your life hell) and c is obsessive compulsive (different than ocd btw) personality disorder and avoidant.

Oh she can be fired, doll. You're just not trying hard enough.

yes, i know someone like that, nothing is ever their fault and they must be always right, never wrong. If you prove them wrong, they get fucking angry...

Cluster A (odd/eccentric): Paranoid, Schizoid, and Schizotypal personality disorders

Cluster B (dramatic, emotional, erratic): Antisocial, Borderline, Histrionic, and Narcissistic personality disorders

Cluster C (anxious/fearful): Avoidant, Dependent, and Obsessive Compulsive personality disorders

Watch out OP. Sounds like another Dr. Amy "Boom Boom" Bishop.

Why does it seem so many people in academia are totally fucking crazy?

I know someone who is a mix of cluster b and c. he's definitely OCD. a real psycho. the worst thing is I can't even avoid him, I have to deal with him in my business.

Definitely not me.

Cluster B personality disorders, like drained pasta and The Golden Girls, is a topic that DL NEVER tires of.

My ex not only had borderline personality disorder, she was also a marriage and family therapist. She knew exactly what it meant when her therapist told her that she had it. She immediately dumped the therapist and then pretended to have associative disorder (she found a therapist to tell her that she had multiple personalities— a dubious diagnosis in almost every case). She protected her ego strength by denying she had BPD. They can’t handle the truth, almost quite literally.

I know a few. Fucking psychos!

Can't even avoid due to business reasons

R25, what?

//But stopped speaking to me when I told her the last 70,000 she demanded from me (I handle her dad’s finances, as he is in early stage dementia) and told me I was managing her dad’s care (he will remain at home as long as possible, which I hope is all the way to the end of his life).//

R6, A.M.B?

It's harder to identify fucked up people now as belonging to a cluster due to the prevalence of drug abuse, whether using street drugs, buying shonky meds from India, or taking too many prescription drugs given to them for depression, ADHD, anxiety, etc. I know someone who does all three of those things.

Most people I know with Bipolar are compliant with their medication regimes and you'd never guess they have it, but there are a few I know of who refuse to take the meds or whose doctors haven't quite got the meds right. The untreated ones I've personally interacted with are just utterly obnoxious.

I know someone who was diagnosed years ago with BPD, but who was recently diagnosed with ADHD. Even the dexies and antidepressants couldn't help with their depression so they made the decision to increase both without consulting their doctor. It isn't working well, so they also take benzos and whatever else they can get their hands on. They've been looking into microdosing as well. This is a smart person doing incredibly stupid things to their brain. They hold down a job, have a house.

I know people who genuinely need their ADHD meds and take them as prescribed, but the ones who take too many and then get strung out before their scripts are refilled are not easy to be around. The ADHD diagnoses can be clung to as an explanation for *everything* troubling some people. Yes, there's ADHD, but what about dealing with the other issues too?

Then there's chronic gamblers, compulsive shoppers, alcoholics functioning at different levels, food addicts, people who cannot drive anywhere without travelling at least 30% over the speed limit, workaholics...

The tight regulations over painkillers have sent some people in physical pain to drug dealers to get something "that works". There's also people I know who have untreated PTSD and seek relief from dealers.

Meth use is now such a common thing that it's been normalised in some circles. I know people of several age groups using and/or dealing it. None of the ones I know personally are homeless or have criminal records. Others that I see around are clearly in a bad way.

Sorry for drifting, but the most problematic people I know are impacted by some kind of addiction, untreated/undertreated health issues, or some degree of narcissism and/or sociopathy/psychopathy

I know a few people with narcissistic traits and/or control issues. They are not fun. That they are usually sociopaths or psychopaths as well makes them dangerous to get close to. The ruthlessness is off the charts.

It usually takes problems with day to day functioning or some kind of crisis for people with BPD to be diagnosed. The ones who accept it and go for treatment/therapy can actually be quite nice.

The ones who don't know they have it can be intolerable, same for the ones who are diagnosed but don't accept it, or those who know they've got it but refuse to do anything about it.

R40 what's the diff between BPD and bipolar?

r46, the linked article is an actually decent break down of them.

For example, bipolar disorder people generally have highs and lows that last a week or two at least. you can say, o, so and so is having an episode because you can count on them being in a low tomorrow if they were yesterday.

borderline on the other hand changes from minute to minute, they're very unstable.

the skank upstairs will have a day of:

Oh my precious son, you are the light of my life HEY wtf are you doing? how dare you disrespect me like that? don't you know how hard I work to give you things? no one understands me. but, you, you I love, you're so precious

here kitty kitty, you're so much fun, let's play! HEY ROOMMATE WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME? I just want you to answer why you don't love me, you told me that you don't want me and all I do is give and give. don't walk away from... o, hi friend from work! We were just going to have a beer, want one?

All day. All night. When she first got with him she loved everything he loved, hated everything he hated. they have a fragile sense of self and a bottomless pit of need. leaving them is dangerous.

bipolar disorder people generally have highs and lows

If two bipolar get together, do their cycles ever sync? Is there an app for that?

also, one way to tell the difference is that bipolar is not influenced by external actions. if a bipolar person is going to be manic they're going to be manic even if they're being evicted or broken up with. if they're going to be in a depressive episode, they would be even if they won the lottery.

bpd is almost entirely influenced by external events. cat ignored you? rage for an hour. guy complimented you? you are the hottest thing on the planet and the 2 of you are soulmates and are going to be married. neighbor asks you to watch your kids? she's an evil witch who hates you and the very idea of anyone hating you makes you scream for 10 minutes.

all day. every day.

BPD sounds way worse than Bi Polar from those descriptions

it's very sad, it is way worse. Bipolar can often be treated with medication and therapy. BPD really isn't helped with medication (some symptoms can be helped a bit but it generally doesn't touch the actual mental disorder). Bpd really needs long term, accountable therapy which usually doesn't happen. I can be empathetic, I have various mental issues, but I really can't deal with personality disorders. That flavor of mental illness clashes with the flavors I have.

“After all I’ve done for you….”

Forget just “Cluster B’s,” OP: How about the whole fcuking Cluster Alphabet…?!!

Cunts!!!!

BDPs are annoying but as parents they are dangerous, turning children with narcissism into psychopaths.

Do borderline and bipolar really have much in common besides confusing people with the interchangeability of their acronyms?

I know of one potential Cluster B who managed to alienate nearly everyone around her, fuck up her corporate law career, get fired by her clients (and possibly by her firm as well but I’m unclear on those details). What I’ve seen of her, she’s the truest definition of a nasty, vile cunt with no redeeming value to society. I’m not exaggerating in the slightest when saying that the world would be a better place if this vile cunt would do the rest of us a favor and off herself. She is filth.

R56 I think their behaviors are quite different. BPD's have a fucked up personality - needy, possessive, jealous, prone to rage, childish - all the time! They can mature out of it, to some degree, which isn't really true for the other fucked up personalities, like narcissistic or antisocial pd.

Bipolar's extreme moods are the problem. But they seesaw between very very up (manic) and very very down (clinical depression). And they can be relatively normal between the seesawing.

Bipolar can be treated with. medication - it's their brain misbehaving cyclically and that can be stopped, for many people, though they often feel numb due to the meds. Lithium is one they used in the past - not sure what they use now. Then their personalities are ok.

BPD basically cannot - it's their personality. They may be anxious or depressed but that's a separate issue from their personalities being awful.

I'm not a medical expert - I've just know a few examples of each, in my family and among friends.

Sorry my post is a mess. In a nutshell, Bipolars can be "fixed" with medication. The core problem with BPD cannot be fixed - it's their personality, who they are, not a manifestation of a somatic or physical problem with their brains (as Bipolar is).

Psychiatry sounds like a pseudo science if someone's personality or mental disorder is not a physical problem that can be examined.

Yeah it is. Psychiatrists usually don't even want to try to treat personality disorders. They don't know what to do with them either, lol.

One expert, Otto Kernberg, said he's managed to cure a small number of NPDs. He claims when it's worked it's taken about 10 years with three visits per week, using sort of Freudian psychotherapy to "re-parent" them. But what insurance is gonna pay for that? So if you're very very rich and find an amazing famous therapist like him... then it's just a 'maybe'

Psychiatrists are basically drug pushers. And if drugs don't work, forgetaboutit.

And I may have misunderstood your comment, R60.

The categorization of personalities may just be a sort of word game. But difficult people do exist - and it's helpful to the poor long-suffering victims - offspring, partners, coworkers, friends, etc., to understand that patterns of dysfunctional behaviors have been identified. And what they're dealing with can be predictable if they understand the pattern.

Maybe BPD is just "spoiled." Narcissistic is more arrogant and less needy but still just "spoiled x 2." And antisocial is just a lizard brain (it may actually BE a physical problem of the brain - experts have identified brain differences in serial killers, for example).

And etc. with the other types of personality disorders...

I wish I was like that. I feel constant guilt over every thoughtless thing I've done in my entire life.

Does OP with Cluster-B personality disorder not realize something is wrong with her because she is obsessed with this shit?

fixed for OP

I deal with a guy through work who goes through phases where he will hate someone he deals with (usually at work), say the most terrible things about them (including that they are a narcissist and that one day he will fuck them off for good), all the while never being anything but nice and helpful to them. After six months to a year, he gets over vehemently hating that person and moves onto someone else who he will say the exact same things about. He can even get to a point where he really starts to like someone he's previously spent a long period loathing.

He seems to have narcissistic and sociopathic traits himself, as he can be totally ruthless in certain circumstances, with a history of lying and manipulating as well. Despite having done some terrible things to people he thinks crossed him, he sees himself as a total victim. He thinks everyone else is a tyrant trying to "control" him, or "dictate" to him. He often makes a decision one day, then does a complete 180 a day or so later.

I can't avoid him due to his solid position in our industry, but he seems to be becoming more dangerous and a bit unhinged as his power grows.

He seems to have what most people would consider to be a perfect life, so it's hard to understand where all the anger and hatred come from.

We are living in a Cluster B society.

R42. Sorry, I was obvious so worked up that I didn’t proofread. She’s essentially blaming me for her father’s decline (the fact that my husband’s father and grandfather both died of Alzheimer’s isn’t relevant to her view of the world), for his longer bout of Covid (he couldn’t take Paxlovid because he’s on Plavix and her concerns about Publix exposure by taking him to a restaurant seems misplaced, given that she basically lets all the men at her sex parties deposit their semen in every orifice she has), and only checks in when she decides Texas is too hot and comes up north to stay at one of the five houses she bought with the 1M her mother left her (mother died on Alzheimer’s ten years ago—well, technically, she ended her own life)—this one is a two-family home. She lets some freeloaders live in the other half in return for looking after the place. She acts like a trustafarian, but, believe me, her dad, while well-supported after forty years of teaching at Ivies and almost-Ivies, is not a Rockefeller. I don’t care what she does with her life—I just wish she didn’t pop up to make my caregiving for my husband more challenging than it already is. Believe me, cutting off contact is the best present she could give me.

R67. Obviously, not obvious

R25 is interesting. Demonizes her stepdaughter, but seems to have all the markings of a predatory cluster B herself.

OP, the answer is no because people with these types of personalities lack self awareness. You cant fix a problem if you can’t first admit that you have one.

Dealing with them is like dealing with a child or teenager. Most of them experience some kind of trauma at a young age and their brain stopped developing at that age. There’s no point in reasoning with them.

[Quote]Each of us has a side to ourselves that we cannot see.

Facts.

Step-parents complaining about step-kids— especially when there’s money involved— is a classic red flag.

A mature human being would acknowledge that blending families is difficult.

A trashy, predatory step-parent vilifies the step-kids, who have likely already been through the wringer.

R25: You’re trash, Sweetie!

R67 is nuts!

Who tries to equate taking an elderly, heath-compromised man to a public restaurant during covid to a sex party? What does one have to do with the other?

We get it, dear. You are a sex-negative, fat frau who lay in wait to latch on to a well-off elderly man. (Let me guess— you trolled the churches?)

Now you have “problems” with his kids. Sounds like the problems are of your own creation.

My sister has BPD. Prior to therapy, she was an absolute terror, swinging from high to low within minutes. But I only have empathy for her. Every emotion she cycles through is heightened. You can see the physical toll it takes on her to experience (and try to fight) all the competing stimulus her brain is foisting upon her.

It took a huge and very public falling out with our sibling for her to be diagnosed. She was being treated for depression, and her GP thought she had Bipolar - and the treatment she was receiving was obviously not working. In her first session with a psychiatrist, she was tentatively diagnosed with BPD, confirmed after the psychiatrist met and spoke to my brother-in-law. She undertook a year of weekly Dialectical Behavioural Therapy, and came out the other side of a hellish existence with clarity, acceptance of herself, and apologies for the people she had hurt. She still has moments of hysteria (I don't know what other word to use really) but she has the tools now to self manage. I'm really proud of her.

TLDR: BPD is hell on Earth for the person experiencing it, and all the people around them, but with acceptance of your diagnosis and hard work in therapy, it seems you can live a better life.

To add to the discussion on bipolar, there are different degrees of bipolar. Bipolar 1 is the more serious condition with full-blown manic episodes (anger and rage are frequently part of mania—it’s not always euphoria from what I have read about it and from having a close friend with it).

Bipolar 2 is the “milder” (if you can call it that) one. My mom suffered from bipolar 2, and her hypomanias were characterIced by being hyper verbal and irritable.

R27 quite correct.

R74, does your sister have Borderline or BiPolar?

Between all the Cluster-Bs and the Autism Spectrum Disorders these days, where is a girl to sit

Whenever BPD, Cluster-Bs and/or CPTSD threads come up on DL (like the sun every morning), I feel duty bound to suggest a new kind of therapy called The Ideal Parent Family (IPF) protocol for the treatment of trauma and attachment disorders. It's helped me enormously. Many people are familiar with DBT but don't know about IPF, which is newer but, in my opinion, both faster and more profound.

I suspect some people who scroll through these threads might either be diagnosed or suspect they are BPD, so here's a therapeutic approach that might help, with research to back it up

Oops *Figure, not Family.

Ideal Parent Figure protocol.

Cluster-B is my rapper name, bitches

Borderline Personality Disorder, R77.

I don't know whether it was just the DBT, or the fact that she was nearing her forties and may have simply aged out of some of the symptoms that was her "saviour", so to speak. Maybe a combination. I kind of wonder if she'll ever have another big meltdown. And I have to confess, she's still funny but when she was on a rampage, she was a savage cunt and came out with some wickedly nasty yet accurate takes on people. I kind of miss her unhinged moments.

Actually I am a gay man and have been with my partner (now husband) for thirty years. His kids were well into their twenties when we met. The stepdaughter has never held a job in her life, but has expected she’ll be supported by her parents for her entire life. She has been involuntarily committed to a psychiatric clinic and CFS took away custody of her child for six months because her drug use, combined with diagnosed bipolar II ,are her negligent and her home was not safe for the child—he was placed with his father. I am hardly sex negative, but I don’t think a 10 year-old should be subjected to hearing his mother rage at one member of her polycule because he asked her to get an HIV test. I have my own issues (mainly depression and anxiety, intensified by seeing my husband decline into Alzheimer’s), but I also find it interesting that some of you leapt to the conclusion that I was a predatory frau—it speaks to the misogyny that shows up on the board.. and I have my own retirement money, but I know either in-home care or placement in a memory care unit (the latter I hope never to have to resort to, as my husband seems happy at home) runs five figures a month. If we use up all his money (we have always kept our money separate, do I have my own IRA, which can support me) providing him with the best care possible, I’m content. But being the sole caregiver for someone with Alzheimer’s is challenging enough without having to deal with relatives who see him as their personal ATM. If I sound unhinged, well, you must never have lived with someone with dementia or with adult children who, unfortunately, never had to earn their own living. My husband has been a kind and generous man all his life and it has been a blessing to be part of his life And my point in comparing her accusations about my taking him to a restaurant as the vector of Covid (no one else there became ill—he could have gotten any number of other ways) with her sex parties was, I acknowledge, poorly put—my point was simply that she is being conveniently selective about what is responsible public exposure. One thing people have mentioned that I had noticed earlier is that she has a tendency to direct all her vitriol and hatred at a single person, who becomes the repository of all her animus—before me (when I was a “good guy,” meaning I did send her money on her dad’s behalf—though never such large sums as 50,000 at a time), it was my husband’s sister who was the villain, after the money. Now that I’m the heartless step-parent, the aunt can do no wrong.

Paragraphs are your friend R83.

R83, what is it with these people that they love or hate someone? They always have someone to demonise.

People with BPD are often fairly intelligent and, as others here have pointed out, will sometimes age out of the hallmark behaviors such as volatility and substance abuse.

Rescue-chick, you have my sympathies. IIRC, you went through some serious stress to find your present home, so please remember the old Indian proverb cited in a recent DL thread: If you wait long enough, you'll see the bodies of your enemies floating down the river. 🙏