"Victor / Victoria" (1982)

This is a bit weird and (now, an obvious) predictor of my homosexuality, but the film was a childhood favorite. My parents had it on VHS and I watched it several times as a kid. I haven't watched it in at least a decade, so I can't comment on how it's aged... I imagine, some of it has aged well and some has not. Even as a kid, I thought it was ridiculous that anyone could mistake Julie for a female impersonator, but I was still charmed. You didn't specifically mention Lesley Ann Warren, OP. She was a total riot in the film. As was, coincidentally, Rachel York in the so-so Broadway adaptation. I was too young to have seen that live, but there is a pro-shot recording available. The aforementioned York provides great comic relief, the sets look like a million bucks, but it's not a well structured musical and Julie give is the ol college try, though her more serious moments feel a bit silly.

Love this silly movie

Yes, Lesley Ann Downe stole the show (sorry I forgot to mention her role). She deserved an Oscar. I never quite believed Julie Andrews as a man, either - just like i never believed Streisand as a man (especially one 15 years younger than she really was).

It was surprisingly gay for 1982! It was a fun movie, but I agree, I don't think Julie Andrews was too convincing as a man. (Spoiler) When she "reveals herself as a man" at her show, and the audience is shocked and delighted, I think the audience would really think "Uh, what's the point? That she's rather butch?"

*First a Girl*

Poor Streisand didn't have a chance at the Oscars with 'Yentl' a year later. The genre was pretty much played out with 'V/V' and 'Tootsie' by then.

Viktor und Viktoria

[quote]Yes, Lesley Ann Downe stole the show.

Lesley Ann Warren

Whatever happened to Lesley Anne Downe ? She was so great in 'Upstairs Downstairs" in the 70s.

Never knew James Garner could be such a sexy leading man, OP? You obviously haven’t seen any of his other movies.

OP/R3 that is Leslie Ann Warren not Leslie Ann Down

Frankly people should experience films on the big screen which is why studios should restore and re-release films to theaters so people can see all the old movies in theaters. It's what multiplexas are for, and it is mostly profitable for the studios.

I watch it anytime it’s on and watched it repeatedly during its HBO run back in the day as a young gayling. One of my favorites. And James Garner is sexy as Hell in his older films! Grand Prix, The Thrill of It All, The Great Escape-he’s gorgeous in all of these!

I like big guys, so a gay Alex Karas was right up my alley.

We never understood how the Chicago, Illinois scene got past the censors with Leslie's hair sticking out from under her panties.

Warren is hysterical as Norma and looks great in those 30s Harlow dresses.

I only know Garner from 'The Rockford Files' not from his movies - so never knew what a sexy leading amn he was.

It's been rumored Edwards really wanted Tom Selleck (hot from 'Magnum PI') for the role, but Selleck wasn't interested in the movie. Edwards said it wasn't true - Garner was always his only choice.

[quote](one reason was Peter Sellers, originally cast as 'Toddy' passed away).

I never knew this and can't picture him in the role at all. I thought Preston was ideal.

I think Roddy McDowall would've made a fun 'Toddy'.

I don't know why but this movie scared me whenever I saw a commercial for it. I'm 49 so I guess I was around 8 or 9 when it was released. I avoided it on HBO (I think it was on frequently). It seemed extremely adult and I might have an aversion to Julie Andrews.

Robert Preston's pouffy hair was distracting. I saw it in a sold out suburban theatre and at the very beginning of the movie when it's revealed Preston is in bed with a man there was a huge straight gasp from the audience. Meanwhile, I was squealing inside.

I would imagine it’s true that Jim Garner was first choice for King Marchand. He and Julie got on great on “Americanization of Emily” and she was very fond of him.

Warren was supposed to do a topless scene but they put her in lingerie instead. I think it's when King sends her back to Chicago and she opens her coat on the train and says 'you ain't seen the last of me.'

[quote]Robert Preston's pouffy hair was distracting

I was going to post the very same thing. Even as a young gayling when I first saw V/V, I was troubled by his hairstyle. In fact, all the men's hairstyles looked a little off to me. Too contemporary. Dapper men out on the town in the 1930s wore their hair slicked back and heavily pomaded.

Leslie Ann Warren gave the performance of a lifetime. She was absolutely brilliant in that movie. There should be a special Oscar category honoring performances that did not make it that year but over time have been universally recognized as classics.

I remember my house got cable (with HBO) in April, 1983. I remember HBO constantly played "V/V" - there was no escaping it. My parents loved it but I only watched bits and pieces. They also played 'Tootsie' non-stop.

[quote]Edwards said it wasn't true - Garner was always his only choice.

Selleck was not nearly good enough an actor to play the role, R16, plus he'd be way too young for Andrews. I believe Edwards. This was the second pairing of Garner and Andrews, the first being the far superior Americanization of Emily (1964), directed by Arthur Hiller.

Le Jizz Hot

[quote]I think Roddy McDowall would've made a fun 'Toddy'.

I don't think Roddy McDowall is fun in anything.

Lots of fun. Some parts don't work but I think the music does.

Early days of cable R25. I remember. It was a lot of Time after Time, Terrorvision and the Hitchhiker series. I do remember V/V playing a lot too.

I remember some controversy when the Broadway musical first premiered (never mind all the controversy after it premiered - but that's another thread).

The one I'm thinking of was that Edwards and Andrews promised audiences this would premiere in the 94-95 season. However, once they saw Glenn Close's performance of 'Norma Desmond' in LA, and knew she was opening on Broadway in November, 1994, they decided to delay their musical for the following season. They didn't want their musical competing with 'Sunset' at the box office or the Tonys - and Andrews didn't want to go up against Close for 'Best Actress'. This move upset many involved in the production (especially investors) but Edwards convinced everyone this needed to be done.

They really didn't have to worry - 'V/V' was shut out of the nominations except for Andrews (Best Actress in a Musical') and she ended up withdrawing from the Tonys.

I have known many a Twink, who was like Norma, especially when I couldn’t get it up.

Love this film. Julie's 3rd crowning glory after Poppins and Maria. The music is great, the entire film is farce and that's a hard genre to pull off...its fun, classy and the cast look like they're having a blast...and they're not 22 year olds....its a rare gem. And Julie can do no wrong...shes universally beloved...plus the voice...that magical crystal clear voice.

The Shady Lady from Seville number with Andrews and, later, Preston drags. It just goes on forever and is not as much fun as Le Jazz Hot and Chicago, Illinois.

But they cleary had fun shooting it. Preston was in tears.

We have V/V playing every minute we are open on one screen and old Detroit Lions games on the other

That movie was such fun. I normally find Julie Andrews much too astringent but she did well in that one, and everybody else was a hoot, too.

The restaurant scene at the start of the film is very funny and draws the viewer in immediately. The waiter is hilarious.

I saw James Garner in another old movie with Marlon Brando. A young Marlon Brando in the movie, Sayonara, and James Garner more than held his own against a gorgeous Marlon Brando. Garner was one fine man.

R5, that actress in drag looks just like a young Lindsey Graham.

Norma made this film. Over the top vulgar. Too funny.

[quote]James Garner more than held his own against a gorgeous Marlon Brando

In that film, Brando looked like a nerdy fat boy next to Garner.

"That actress" is the wonderful Jessie Matthews, r40.

R28 the waiter stole every scene he was in.

Thank you, OP, for introducing us to this obscure, little known film that somehow escaped the attention of this gay message board for decades.

As the young Mara Hobel would say: “Jesus…Christ”.

Oh r45, go take a fucking Midol.

What an unwelcome threadshitter you are.

Wow, R46. I love your “don’t try this at home” approach to comedy.

R45

Well there goes 90% of the DL threads

R45 The last threads that had Victor/Victoria in the subject line was over two years ago. Is that within your statute of limitations or something?

When Julie Andrews’ Victoria tells the waiter that the Beef Bourguignon was “just a little bit tough”, he replies that after all the eating she has done, perhaps her jaws are getting tired. I liked that joke.

[quote] first conceived my husband and wife team Blake Edwards and Julie Andrews

Pics please.

[quote]Lesley Ann Downe

Dear fucking GOD R3.

TCM should play this more.

[quote]Robert Preston's pouffy hair was distracting.

You're high, R20. He had great hair.

[quote] the waiter stole every scene he was in.

And not just in Julie Andrews movies

R52 That really upset you ? My thoughts and prayers go out to you.

R52/R3 don't try covering up your profound retardation with some ham-handed empty goodwill gesture. You're a fucking moron and everyone knows it.

R52 Why are you addressing yourself in R57 ? This really rattled your cage, huh ? Again, thoughts and prayers go out to you...at least until you get your meds refilled.

Yeah R58, you sure showed me, didn't you? Tell us again how moved you were by Miss Downe's performance in Victor Victoria.

Well? We're waiting.

Why was the setting changed from Berlin to Paris? Was it so people wouldn't draw any comparisons to Cabaret?

OK, "I was very moved by Lesley Anne Downe's performance in Victor/ Victoria".

Is that making you feel better and calming your anxiety, sweetie ? (I still say you need to refill your prescriptions - pronto !)

I’m linking to Le Jazz Hot, as I think it’s one of the greatest musical numbers ever committed to film.

Own your stupidity R61. Own it.

Víctor/Victoria: Blake Edwards and Julie Andrews were saying the Quite part out loud.

I love this movie. Everything about it is perfect.i can’t imagine anyone but Robert Preston as Toddy. He was such a sweetheart. Lesley Ann Warren was perfection as the vase throwing super skank Norma. I loved how every other scene ended in a colossal smackdown.

It is a very well directed movie, very confident. It made me want to see other Blake Edwards films, and I did, the one with Anne Reinking and SOB and others. I never saw the Pink Panther films. But V/V is in its own category.

Leslie's scenes ended in smackdowns but at heart she was sweet and caring. When the man fell off the rail tracks she was the ONLY witness to dos[lay concern he might have been hurt.

And civil improvement, in all Chicago was there one with a firmer goal to someday secure an airport for the the city.

Statues should have been dedicated to her pioneering contribution to Chicago

This is one of my favorite movies, and I watch clips of it on Youtube when I need cheering up.

Couldn't agree more about the terrible 80s hairstyling on all the men, Except for Julie Andrews whose male drag hair was utterly authentic to the period and should have shamed all those actors into doing better with their own.

After seeing it back in 1982 our best friend ecstatically proclaimed to us that it was the "Cabaret of the 80's!" We still remind him of that proclamation to this day....

I love that when LAW sings, "Trendy travellers tend to talk/ Of London, Paris, Rome, New York...", when she gets to "Paris," she sings it through clenched teeth because she was just humiliated there.

I also love how intentionally stupid the lyrics to this song are.

I'll be the outlier here and say that I always found Leslie Ann Warren's performance cringe-worthy.

You really are queeeeeah?

Was that Robert Preston’s real hair?

Maybe his real hair?

I saw V/V when it came out (no pun intended) and have seen it many times since. It holds up very well -more than many of its contemporaries (Google movies of 1982 and you'll see what I mean). The performers are uniformly outstanding -probably the best acting work Andrews has ever turned in. Preston played gay so well in this film (and in SOB) that I actually thought he was gay. The film was delightful -fun, tuneful, and good-spirited. But...

What hurts the film for me is when Garner hides in the bathroom to spy on "Victor" and learns "his" secret -before the big kiss and the famous "I don't care if you are a man" line. It totally undercuts the character actually caring for the person. He KNOWS it's a woman pretending to be a man, so he takes no risk of losing his straight credentials. I suppose it was considered necessary in 1982, but it's the one false note (for me) in the story. And I don't like how he never fesses up to Victoria, letting her think he was far more enlightened than he really was. Still, this was incredibly gay-positive for a film of its era, and the joys far outweigh my one quibble.

I also saw the Broadway version. The less said about that, the better. It was charmless, and it killed Andrews' voice (not the surgery she later blamed for it). The world would be a better place if Julie had skipped the stage show and kept her voice.

Vik/Vikki

R71. Still makes me laugh.

SOMEDAAAAAAAAAY WE'LL HAAAAVVVE ANNNN AIIIIIIIIR-POOOOOORRRRTUH!

[quote]Preston played gay so well in this film (and in SOB) that I actually thought he was gay

He’s not?!

A womanizer, in fact, r79.

Wow, mind blown, r80!

I've never understood how Blake Edwards was able to remain in the closet after making this movie. No one but an actual gay man would have made it.

I think people loved Julie Andrew so much they just never wanted to admit she was a closeted lesbian who married two closeted gay men (Tony Walton and Blake Edwards) because she felt she had no other choice.

Didn't really care for this movie.

I always have loved the costume Andrews wore in "Le Jazz Hot." The headdress in particular matched her personal sparkle. Very Erte.

Just watched it again. Le Jazz Hot is a really great number. The choreography in this film was great. The actual choreographer can be seen in the film, teaching Le Jazz Hot to Julie in the rehearsal scene.

R76. Agree 100% about King knowing for sure that Victor was actually a woman before he kissed her. But, like you pointed out, it was 1982. However, in the stage version, King kisses Victor not knowing if he's a man or a woman.

I was in once offered a professorship in Chicago. I always wanted to do R71 at my inauguration.

Robert Preston was sex on a stick.

R88 I love that someone else posted that. Every interview Cook ever did always talked about how SEXY Preston was…maybe it’s just lost on me because I never saw that

[quote] how SEXY Preston was

Interesting yes, but SEXY... lets not get carried away

In my gay little heart, I couldn't stop looking at the chorus boy on Julies right in Le Jazz Hot and when he was a matador. Those blue eyes. and body.

R86 absolutely he knew because he saw her bathing.

This thread needs shady dame. It is the music that sends me.

After watching this, I can't help but think that the movie version of "Chicago" should have been made shortly after, with Julie Andrews and Carol Burnett in the lead roles. What a hoot that would've been.

Every time the subject of the 1995 Broadway musical comes up, I can't help but think of the "Forbidden Broadway' spoof they did on Andrews and the show. Priceless. My favorite - Spoonful of Julie.

Le Julie Hot (Le Jazz Hot)

Julie refusing her Tony nomination in 1996.

In the CNN clip above, they keep mentioning what a success "V/V" was on Broadway, when in fact the musical (which cost nearly $9M to bring to Broadway) only recouped half of its investment. From what was reported, the musical lost money when Liza stepped in to replace a vacationing Andrews in January, 1997 (and her costar Tony Roberts did not report for work at most performances, as he didn't get along with Liza) and the box office dropped even when Andrews returned in February. There was a bump in May, 1997 after Andrews' nomination. However, once Raquel replaced Andrews in June the box office dropped and the show closed in the red about six weeks later.

"and her costar Tony Roberts did not report for work at most performances, as he didn't get along with Liza)."

Now who doesn't work well with a drug/alcohol riddled manic depressive?

Imagine if we had the internet back then ? Imagine all the gossip we would have had access to ?

Between the 'backstage drama' at Sunset Blvd in London and NY, and backstage drama at V/V - we would have had hit the jackpot !

Watch this and tell me Liza isn't high as a kite.

R95, I’m not a Broadway expert so I’m sometimes unclear on what Forbidden Broadway is referencing but they always make me laugh. This is another Julie Andrews track I think came about after Broadway’s Victor/Victoria but someone correct me if I’m wrong

R45 hasn’t needed Midol in decades.

One of my favorite scenes...Norma's voice and his suffering expression always makes me laugh.

R19 same for me

R102 That song came out two years before Victor/Victoria opened on Bway. It was well known by then that Julie's voice is in trouble.

[quote]They really didn't have to worry - 'V/V' was shut out of the nominations except for Andrews (Best Actress in a Musical') and she ended up withdrawing from the Tonys.

She did that simply because of Blake being snubbed. It's surprising that she didn't lose because of that. I adore Julie but let's be real that was a diva-ish move. If the shows only nominations had been Blake for best director and Julie, I doubt Julie would have done it.

Miss Julie blew her chance at an EGOT.

COCKROACH!

The waiter…so funny…so put upon…

“Oh, now wait a minute—wait! Lock the door!!”

Considering Julie lost the Tony for both MY FAIR LADY and CAMELOT I see no reason she would have won for the far inferior V/V even if she was Julie Andrews.

She would have won, r111.

But only for the utter lack of competition, r112.

Whatever, r113.

Thanks, r106. I didn’t discover Forbidden Broadway until the late 90s so many of the shows that were spoofed had already come and gone on Broadway.

I love the headpiece that Julie Andrews wore when she sang Le Jazz Hot.

[quote]I love the headpiece that Julie Andrews wore when she sang Le Jazz Hot.

It wouldn't love you, r116.

R113. Fuck you

Before they knew it

It was spewing round the world

The world was ready

For a white kind of fluid

And now they spray it

From Steamworks Chicago to L.A. FLEX

When you blow me

Le Jizz Hot baby

You're filling my hole with smegma

Don't know whether it's creamy or light

Only know it's cumming right

So come on in and lay me

Le Jizz Hot baby

Cause I love... my jizz hot

Le Jizz Hot...

Le Jizz Hot.

I adore Robert Preston.Loved him in Music Man. Used to get him mixed up with Richard Basehart at first.

Robert Preston has big chompers. But a good actor.

I had no idea this was this bad.

Poor Liza

“Tschaasch Hot” with Lisha is truly tragic, R122.

I have always loved “You and Me”. The chemistry between Preston and Andrews is palpable. And the wonderful waiter is in there too.

[quopte] This thread needs shady dame. It is the music that sends me.

It's the enunciation that sends me!

"Ssseville isssn't that much to shout about, but when she was out, traffic ssstood ssstill!"

I saw Raquel Welch during her very brief run. Trainwreck.

"Don't know whether it's morning or night..."

LOOK OUT THE WINDOW!

I’m certain I haven't made this up, but there’s a proshot of the Broadway version, filmed for Japanese television - it used to available as a DVD.

It begins with an introduction by Julie, where she says it was filmed ‘for all my friends in Japan’. Only somebody with her effortless charm could get away with such forced sincerity.

R128. AND, it's on YouTube.

I downloaded it. It's a musical that I'll have to watch in bits and pieces.