30 years ago, Bill Clinton de-linked China's most favored nation status as a trading partner from human rights

Reality is depressing, ain't it? The gap between how we like to think America operates and the cold, dirty facts mind-boggling.

Sellout.

Recall Clinton was POTUS when we thought the Third Way bullshit was going to save the Democratic party... and were we wrong.

At least it gave us some influence in China, being their biggest customer by a factor of 2. Oh, if there were only some recent example of when it would have been beneficial to [italic]use[/italic] that influence, but since we had a neophyte charlatan in the WH that only thought about himself and how he was going to make money, we squandered another opportunity.

"but since we had a neophyte charlatan in the WH "

you'll have to be more specific

Don't be obtuse, R4.

And thus, China could start sending their spies to the US to commit espionage, they could send their kids to our colleges causing tuition to skyrocket, they could launder their dirty money in our real estate market causing home prices to become out of reach for most Americans, and they could work in our companies to commit intellectual property theft.

Thanks, Bill Clinton!

You motherfucking CUNT.

R3

I will allow that the Clinton certainly co-opted the Republicans on free trade in the 1990s; however, triangulation (as a political strategy) really had nothing to do with foreign policy or trade. And your characterization of triangulation as some sort of failure for the Democrats is objectively false, regardless.

In matter of fact, moderation did "save" the Democrat Party, not only for those 8 years, but well beyond and into the current era. Time and again, at the national level, we have seen classical liberal candidates flame out and martyr themselves to the dustbin of history. Michael Dukakis, Howard Dean, Bernie Sanders ... I mean, let's not pretend like the liberal wing of the party has not been given a shot over the years to get their message out. The problem for those guys is that they always get beat by the "third way" Democrats running some version of the Clinton game plan. This happened first with Kerry, then with Obama, then again with Hillary Clinton.

And in nearly every single case, those "third way" Democrats go on to win the national popular vote, which is something that would *never* have happened if Dean or Sanders had been the standard bearer.

With triangulation, the Clintons correctly surmised that America, on balance, is a center-right country, and that calculus has helped Democrats win elections, not lose them. And that calculus is only slightly less accurate today than it was in the 1990s. We have perhaps drifted to the center-center-right in the decades since. If you want put some proto-Jill Stein at the top of the ticket for president, by all means, be my guest. Watch what happens.

[quote]Oh, if there were only some recent example of when it would have been beneficial to use that influence, but since we had a neophyte charlatan in the WH that only thought about himself and how he was going to make money, we squandered another opportunity

And just whom would that neophyte happen to be, R3? Is it the president ranked #7 in the most recent polling of historians on America's best presidents?

You're an out of touch Marxist and your opinions are clearly not to be taken seriously.

Unless, of course, by "neophyte charlatan" you are referring to Donald Trump! In which case, I apologize and retract my comment at R8. :-)

Couldn’t wait to change my vote from Clinton in ‘96. Democratic NIGHTMARE Committee.

We had four neophyte charlatans in a row. Bookended by some quite experienced charlatans.

Clinton was the last if the Centrist Republican presidents.

Bill Clinton was a hybrid. He helped the US economically regarding the deficit, but he wasn't so hot in foreign affairs, no pun intended. He even later apologized for his inaction on Rwanda.

Poppy Bush thought of him as another son. That reveals much.

Poppy Bush invited Clinton into the Carlisle Group, no?

He did more damage than anyone to the USA. Removed safeguards on banking that were put in place in the depression. The glass Stegal act the future commodities trading act. Printed and gave to his buddies like never before. He fucked up the-world and we have not recovered from it and we’re not going till. Manufacturing fled to China nafta did massive damage to the U.S. and Mexico. He’s no hero a repuke couldn't have gotten away with the changes he made. He was a criminal bastard. Neocon neoliberal dirtbag.

China needs to implode.

Wow R6...

[quote]And thus, China could start sending their spies to the US to commit espionage,

because there were no Chinese spies in the US before Clinton. Here, R6, google Larry Wu-Tai Chin, Gwo-Bao Min, Peter Lee and/or Wen Ho Lee.

[quote]they could send their kids to our colleges causing tuition to skyrocket,

because there were no Chinese students attending US colleges before Clinton, and the cost of higher education didn't start to rise under Reagan.

[quote]they could launder their dirty money in our real estate market causing home prices to become out of reach for most Americans,

because there were no Chinese nationals buying up real estate before Clinton. Moreover, the explosion in Chinese investment in US real estate occurred in 2008 due to changes in China's laws regarding foreign investment and taking advantage of the housing crisis wraught by George W. Bush's administration.

[quote] and they could work in our companies to commit intellectual property theft.

because the Chinese respected intellectual property before Clinton. And, of course, it had nothing to do with The Patent Law of the People's Republic of China passed in 1984, making China the world's IP theft kings throughout the 90s.

But don't let facts get in the way.

Got it.

R7: you have missed the point of my post completely and I have neither the interest nor the time to explain it to you (and you wouldn't understand, regardless).

Yes, R8, I was referring to Trump. You are forgiven. And I'm still not a Marxist.

And R15: You're neglecting the Republican-controlled Congress that passed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which overturned Glass Steagall. I'll give you one guess which party Gramm, Leach and Billey belonged to, but since Clinton was POTUS and negotiated several of the worst parts out and compromised (a dirty word in today's Republican party), let's blame him. But "fucked up the-world"? Overall, bad troll post. No vodka for you, comrade!

R17 works for the propaganda arm of the CCP.

Ching Chong, motherfucker!

Oh noes, you found me out R19! Correcting the record of China's nefarious acts vis-à-vis the US is totally the CCP way.

you know Clinton was great on the economy and domestic issues, but his foreign policy was terrible. he made a real mess of things.. Rwanda, Kosovo, Bosnia, Haiti, and shit like OP posted. And then there was Don't Ask/Don't Tell. Jimmy Carter didn't like Bill Clinton. If he ever needed anything or wanted to talk to someone he always called Al Gore.He & Al were friends.

Chelsea is still a dog.

Whenever someone brings up Don't Ask/Don't Tell, I remind them that this was Clinton's effort at preventing an outright ban that would have sailed through Congress with probably 99% support. I'm not going into the long-winded explanation [italic]again[/italic] but please do a google search on it and read up before you assign blame to Clinton (for, essentially, protecting our rights and ultimately leading to full acceptance of homosexuals in the military).

Look, I'm the first to admit that Bubba made a lot of mistakes. A. Lot. He's not my favorite Democratic POTUS by a long shot, but I'll take Clinton on his worst day over pretty much any Republican on their best.

R22 = the ghost of John McCain.

If my initial impression of OP’s theory of the case is correct, and this is not meant to devolve into a general tear-down of Clinton’s presidency, then I would just like to ask:

Can anyone here identify a Uighur as easily as they could identify an Apple device?

OP here, r25. My theory of the case was that it didn't matter that Clinton de-linked China's MFN status. It wouldn't have mattered if it was Bush I or Bush II either. It wouldn't have mattered if it was Obama or Trump, even. It was going to happen. That much of the world couldn't be excluded.

And I can pretty easily identify an Apple device, what with them being stamped with Apple's logo.

Uighurs - as far as I know - tend not to be stamped with an identifying logo.

Well you know Joe would have done it. Anything for China Joe.

[quote] Uighurs - as far as I know - tend not to be stamped with an identifying logo.

Thank you for calling attention to this. Chairman Xi will be most impressed when we correct this oversight.

ur welcome