The Concept of Aesthetic Realism

William Atherton?

Yeah. Atherton went through it way back in the 70s.

Is he still married?

Glad to see that the official website has explained that they stopped converting gays in 1990. But still.

I thought Atherton pinged to me when I saw him in THE HINDENBURG when it came on television in the eighties.

Yes, it's true. This man has no dick.

I knew a M/F couple in my building the village early 80s... they had two kids, split up. I never spoke to them specifically about their affiliation with AR, but I sensed the husband came to his senses and got out of his marriage. The wife was nice, but nuts. I hope this thread has legs, I'd be very curious to know others who had any assoiciation.

The husband went on to have a major career as a stage manager in NYC, the daughter bcame an MD.... so they had their act together.

Did he end up getting a man r5, r6?

Total garbage.

My MIL was roped in to an initial session and it was recorded. After she died my wife found the tape we listened to it. Those cult members must have been cursing themselves.

What did the tape reveal?

It sounds like a lot of horseshit. Conversion therapy has never and will never work but there were a lot of these kind of “you can change your mind to create your own reality” movements in the 1960s/70s, probably due to the amount of people taking massive amounts of acid.

I am straight now, but still have a fondness for an occasional Broadway tune and the way properly draped chiffon fabric lays.

Sounds like a pop psychology cult like the Landmark Forum.

Changing sexual orientation if one sees themselves as being born gay or changing sexual behavior? I’d suggest those two are not the same.

R10 she went because they said they could make her daughter (my wife) straight. So they start by explaining what she needs to do and think. This is followed by an hour of her talking over them and basically calling them idiots in her heavy Eastern European accent. She was not invited back for another session.

Eli Siegel's life reads like that of a character from a Saul Bellow novel

[quote]Eli Siegel described the philosophy of Aesthetic Realism as a study in three parts: "One, Man's greatest, deepest desire is to like the world honestly. Two, The one way to like the world honestly, not as a conquest of one's own, is to see the world as the aesthetic oneness of opposites. Three, The greatest danger or temptation of man is to get a false importance or glory from the lessening of things not himself; which lessening is Contempt."

Incomprehensible nonsense, can't believe it's still around. Then again, look at the clams. Or indeed the Abrahamic religions, nothing makes sense there either.

What makes you think it's "still around"?

[quote] she went because they said they could make her daughter (my wife) straight. So they start by explaining what she needs to do and think. This is followed by an hour of her talking over them and basically calling them idiots in her heavy Eastern European accent. She was not invited back for another session.

That’s hysterical.

Part 3, as described in Wikipedia makes sense to me. I think I stray into contempt too easily and it’s definitely related to ego and frustration / insecurity. Broken clock.

If you ask AI to summarize it makes more sense

Eli Siegel's Aesthetic Realism philosophy is structured around three key ideas: 1) The inherent desire in humans to honestly like the world, 2) The concept that the world can be genuinely appreciated only through recognizing its aesthetic structure as the unity of opposites, and 3) The notion that contempt, or the act of lessening anything that is not oneself to gain a false sense of superiority, is humanity's greatest temptation and danger. This philosophy underlines that true appreciation of the world does not come from personal circumstances but through understanding the inherent beauty and structure revealed through art and other disciplines. It also emphasizes the ethical obligation to see and value the world and others fairly, positing that overcoming contempt is crucial for resolving personal issues like depression and broader societal issues such as racism and economic inequality.

I will just add that the guiding principles appear extremely autistic.

1) trying to identify why one feels so different (autistic alienation) from what they imagine everyone else feels (neurotypical envy)

2) the key to appreciating the world is identifying patterns

3) understanding autistic narcissism (feeling of being superior to the world because they feel so removed from it and the tendency to observe rather than participate - the “anthropologist on Mars” component)

I signed on for consultation sessions with AR back in the early 80s. They were promoting themselves as a necessary service that would help troubled, conflicted men 'change' from the loneliness of homosexuality and therefore would not eventually die of AIDS. Being closeted, lacking self-esteem, and needing an outlet to discuss my latent gayness, I nervously called up to arrange a meeting. Since I lived in the Midwest, I had to phone in for the teleconference consultations. This was to my advantage, because I avoided being in the same room with those weird folks. Basically, they gave me reading and writing assignments each week based on their teachings and during the phone sessions they would tell me how pathetic I was for being gay. Any counter argument from me was denied, and I was scolded for not being respectful of the teachings of AR. They would take turns berating me. I was cautious from the beginning, sensing the cultish zeal and silly idolization of the leader, Eli Seigel, as a savior of humanity. I suspected that two of the three guys that ran the sessions were still closeted and hadn't changed. They somehow convinced themselves they were straight.

There is also a social and political bent to their philosophy that was to be accepted without question. Ultimately, they would have me move to NYC and be part of the organization. They encouraged me to come visit.

After about 4 months of weekly phone sessions, I was frustrated with the whole ordeal. And they were giving up on me because I hadn't accepted AR as the only true teaching for the world. Also, they were angry because I didn't tell anyone that I was studying AR teachings and how beautiful the philosophy was. So, they pulled the plug on any future consultations until I accepted their bizarre philosophy and start to claim that I was straight.

As mentioned earlier in another post, the consultations are recorded and sent to the student. This was beneficial because it gave me a second chance to hear what was discussed and objectively see how messed up the whole business was. I could see how I come across as meek and unsophisticated.

A few months later I moved out of the Midwest and started a new life on the west coast. Ironically, working with the AR folks was the first step in my coming out process.

I've learned later that some AR meetings were disrupted by ACT UP and Queer Nation. And they gave up trying to 'change' men due to bad publicity and the rest of liberal society was against them. Apparently, they have not grown in number in the last 40 years in spite of having the only true teaching that the world needs. And there seems to be some power struggle for control of the group.

Yes, R7, I assume so. I myself was trying to figure out what the hell AR was circa 1980. Being gay and closeted I was curious, but the whole conversion therapy literally made me sick to my stomach. It's hard to reember what times were like pre internet. You really couldn't find any info about them unless you went to their damn meetings. Intuitively it felt like a cult to me. Members wore little white circle pins with the phrase "Victim of the Press". They were agrieved over the negative publicity they were getting I believe. TM and EST were also big around this time...

My stomach is tightening up remembering! Awful.

below may be of interest

I was born into the Aesthetic Realism cult and I run the website linked in the previous reply explaining who they are and exposing their misdeeds. Some notes based on what's been discussed here:

(1) You can't trust the Wikipedia article about the group, because AR members hijacked the page, so it's not an accurate representation of what the world thinks of them. I fought the AR people over their fawning article about 20 years ago, but there are more of them than me, and WP admins, mods (and other editors) largely didn't care, so I gave up.

(2) AR didn't stop its conversion therapy because they saw the error of their ways. Quite the opposite: They *still* maintain that homosexuality is a result of a person's contempt for the world and that the study of AR is the only "cure". They only stopped offering the therapy, and they stopped because (a) they were tired of getting protested by gay rights groups, and (b) most of their poster children fell off the wagon, so it was mighty embarrassing when the press came calling asking to interview the supposed success stories profiled in their books and on TV talk shows, when those people had left the group and reverted to gay life. Incidentally, my grandmother was one of the counselors who tried to fix lesbians.

EldelLez, and anyone who has a tape of their therapy session (which the Aesthetic Realists call "consultations"), I'm eager to publish the audio on my site if you're willing to share. And anyone with any experience with the group, I hope you'll write up your experience for the website, even if it's only a paragraph or two.

I'm happy to answer questions but I'd much prefer you check out the website, as there's no a whole lot of point to my just repeating what I've already written.