How do you masculine guys do it?

be atrracted to women and pussy

Be yourself.

With a dress and a little work could you pass? You don’t want to be a jock it seems you want to be fucked by a jock. A big difference,

Don’t swim upstream against the current. Give in double down and ride your cute fem qualities to victory. I bet you are much prettier than Dylan..

There's no how, you just man up and do it, you little bitch boy.

Well, first put down that Cosmopolitan (both the drink and the magazine) and repeat after me.........

OP, if you can't *fix* it...*feature* it.

*

[3] No, I actually DO want to be a hot masculine jock guy (and also to get fucked by them). I really DON'T want to embrace being feminine looking and acting. I REALLY want to change, cause TBH, sometimes the attention I get really gets to me. I just want to BLEND IN and not be stared at so much and only treated as an object by the men I do get. I totally understand how women feel, but I REALLY don't want to experience it. I'd even join the military if I thought it would help, and I wouldn't get killed or abused (although the men would be hot).

[5] yes, I'm the first one to admit that I am soft, pampered, and have always too coddled and fussed over by women, but I DID NOT ask for it. I've always been like this, but really don't want to be. I've mostly only had female friends, but women mostly treat me like a child. and I am not attracted to them other than friends.

How old are you and how badly do you want t toughen up and hang with the tough boys?

1-800-627-4637

And they won’t charge you anything.

Two pointers: Speak in short, to the point sentences in a matter of fact tone. Don’t paint nails.

I dunno. I just ... do.

Never gave any thought to it.

But seriously, think about what R3 and R6 said because its actually pretty sound advice

[quote]Don’t swim upstream against the current. Give in double down and ride your cute fem qualities to victory.

Dont try and be something you aint, people can always see through it, be yourself because nobody else can do that better

And look to find masc guys who truly appreciate you for who you actually are - they do exist. I love fem guys myself

You'll go insane forever trying to be someone you aren't. Accept your real temperament and stop living in a world of fantasy.

If you have to ask the question, you'll never understand the answer.

Thanks guys for the advice. I will try your suggestions. Maybe when I get older it will be better. I'm 28, but I really look much much younger (almost like a child....maybe that's why I attract so many creepy guys that are probably pedophiles)

28 yo

Give that number above a call. They are looking for a few good men that want to be toughened up and made more manly. They even go out in there woods and shoot guns,

But only if you are actually serious not DL serious.

Testosterone injections.

Embrace your femininity.

You big gurleena.

I think that this problem can be [bold]E[/bold]asily [bold]S[/bold]olved in [bold]T[/bold]ime.

[16] I can't tell if you're trying to be helpful or mean, but believe it or not I have thought about joining the service (but not the Marines, I'd never make it there). TBH, I do have a lot of fear with that idea, and they probably would take one look at me and say "no way". I'm very small for my age, and while the thought of all those hot men in the service excites me greatly, and I am totally honest about wanting to be more butch, I"m truly afraid of the danger I would be in.

Maybe I should just try to get a career in porn being a pretty bottom. While that sounds like fun, I want to meet guys that I would actually have a future with.

Just say stupid shit.

[22] i was just kidding (about the porn career), not about the guys

Do you work out? Nothing has improved my confidence like weight lifting. I’m not huge but have a good enough t body and feel a lot more secure in my “masculinity” despite being a flaming homo otherwise.

3/1000

OP straight guys run from you because they are straight, not insecure. Closeted guys hook up with you because they are gay or bi.

Men don’t generally want to hang around effeminate men unless they want to fuck them. If they wanted effeminate friends they’d hang out with women.

OP don't make me say it.

Start dressing like David Bowie circa 1973 and everyone will love you.

[24]. Yes, I workout a lot, but mostly have to do it at home, since the looks I get at gyms from the guys kinda gets to me. I have good muscle tone and definition, but still due to my paleness (also like Nicole) and soft skin I still look rather feminine . Working out does help my moods, however.

How old are you, OP? Sometimes masculinity comes with age.

"I want more than anything to be like those hot jock frat guys I see everywhere (especially in porn),"

Stop watching so much god damned pron. Pron has absolutely nothing to do with reality, so quit watching it like it's some documentary on life.

I don't know how many men I speak for but people are usually surprised when I come out to them. Is that the reality you want OP? I'm a senior now and at times it did feel like swimming upstream. And I will always wonder how much of my creativity was lost in that struggle.

I have always admired my more effeminate friends being themselves. Meanwhile I tried to be as masculine as I could. At times it was an alternate form of drag, not that I was a performer.

OP, I was also gifted genetically. I have looked masculine since puberty. No more the tall skinny reed who was beaten and called sissy. So there was the mould I had to fit. I even played basketball. Big handsome hairy guy, so everyone assumed I was an exclusive TOP. I was popular.

At least half the time I wanted to BOTTOM with the "masculine" guys I brought home.

I love guys like you whose sexuality is never a question. Good luck OP.

[quote]I do have a lot of fear with that idea

What is your first language?

OP you don't need to put brackets and the reply number in those brackets to refer back to a specific poster.

Just type the letter "r" and the number of the post you want to reference directly after that r. So no space between the r and the number.

r32r thanks, but since my sexuality has never been a question (like even dead people know i'm gay), I've always envied people who can 'blend in' .

r34r lol

r32r it sounds like you were (are) HOT. but alas the kind of guys that always run from me like i'm carrying backpack explosives.

Well you got close to getting it right!

(You don't need a second r after the number. Just r then the number. That's it. Don't over think. And do exactly as you're told.)

R20

You asked a serious question you deserved a serious answer. And no they do not decline you or fail you just because you look like a 16 yo. It’s all about your performance. But it’s not like I expected you to opt for that. We no longer have a country where mist would ever consider doing that sort of thing.

But getting away from home, from your small circle of friends, doing something similar, doing something you consider manly or tough, while serving your country not just yourself, it’s an option for some.

R38 lol. yes, i admit i am also spastic with the attention span of a jack russell. guess i need to just make peace with myself and embrace my role as a good bottom. i just need a good top that will take control.

r39 thanks for the suggestion, and i have honestly considered it, but i admit i'm too scared. i know how the guys in school treated me, and how most men treat me, and i'm afraid. i literally have been raped before by a guy that wouldn't take no for an answer, and i'm scared that in the service guys would do that or worse just because they can.

Joining the military right now with the threat of Trump looming over the country may not be the best idea.

Join a gym and put on serious muscle

Grow a short beard

Lower you voice when you speak

Turn off the show tunes

Burn your glittery wardrobe

Drop the bitchy attitude

Get rid of your social media. Stop watching reality shows involving housewives. Embrace some MMF porn.

Start drinking beer instead of COCKTAILS.

Wait -- you think there are masculine guys on Datalounge?

Best laugh I've had all day.

You also have to get along with straight guys you wouldn't normally want to. They're just guys, a different type of us. They'll never want us but they often unload their problems on the "normal" gay guy.

Here's your guide to being a manly man, op.

Learn it. Live it. Love it.

The best way to achieve masculinity is to gain self-confidence. None of the suggestions here will matter without it. Don't be a clone of other gay guys trying to "butch it up" because it shows and it's a big turn-off.

r43 i've been a member of a gym. i worked out a lot, but i guess my frame can't put on much muscle. i really did try.

believe it or not, i did have a goatee once, but after getting cum in it and going to work not knowing it, never again.

my voice is my voice. i try to talk as deep as i can, but it somehow sounds just as bad

show tunes? never have. is that still a thing?

no glittery wardrobe (ever). i dress very preppy

i don't try to be bitchy, and sorry if i am. maybe i've been around too many women all my life.

thanks for the suggestions. i will try to work on the gym thing and try to gain muscle, even if i have to get a trainer or drink those awful protein shakes. i dunno about a beard. my hair doesn't really grow very fast on my face, or at all on my body. i know never a goatee again

no beer for me guys, sorry. i just can't. it smells disgusting. if i can't have my appletinis, how about just water?

thanks guys for all the suggestions. i seriously will try as many as i can (within reason).

That was my veiled point r46.

R40 if you want is a "good top that will take control" why do you care about being masculine?

Sure, some tops want manlier bottoms. But many do not.

If you're feeling shitty about yourself just think how fortunate you are not to be this guy...

R52 is dead right. I dont want a "manlier bottom"

r52 i just want to be a regular jock-frat boy type that can still get another guy like that. they were my biggest obsession in college, and can't get over it. The reason I want to change the way I am is cause how guys like that treated me then, not like a guy, but they treated me like a girl.

You want to be fucked by a strong take charge guy?

Consider learning to be a good submissive to a dom top. You have no chance at all going the more butch route yourself. That is just not you and it’s never going to be you.

r52 i know porn isn't real, but i'm kinda obsessed with "Frat X".

OP, you have ashes over your shoulder. Again. Say no to the limp wrist with the ciggie hovering and twirling over this area. Or just stop smoking, it would be so much easier.

I'd keep quiet about all this, OP, or the Gender Identity Movement will claim you're TRANS!

28? How sweet but almost 30.

In a few years, and it will seem much sooner and quicker, none of this will matter. The days of all those men treating you like a young hot girl will be a distant memory.

Soon you will just be another older guy and older queen and few will be paying any attention to you at all. Relief is on the way just hold on for a few more years,

You’re almost 30 and obsessing about a jock type from your college years.

Grow up.

R61 is right. You have to adjust to lowered expectations. But this is the age when you might meet someone with similar apprehensions.

Sounds like you need a steady boyfriend. But you have to grow up a little. There is no perfect match on a first date.

Stop trying to be masculine if you are a natural bottom.

Maybe stop trying altogether

R58, I was going to say something similar, but in a kinder way.

Keep your hands in your front pants pockets unless you're doing something where you need your hands.

Learn to work on your car. If you don't know how, watch YouTube. Don't be afraid to get dirty -- and if you're afraid to get dirt on your expensive clothes, you need some cheaper clothes to do those manly things in.

Build things, like a deck. Or fix things around the house (and no, that doesn't mean rearranging your doll collection). Again, if you don't know how, watch YouTube.

Wear manly boots.

Don't say hello to other men. Grunt or nod your head just a little.

If you can't grow a beard, try that 5 o'clock shadow look.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

Firstly OP, Just do you...im sure ur great. But ur trying to put a square peg in a round hole, as my granny used to say. I definitely grew into my looks as I aged...grew a beard (I too get called handsome 99% of the time...im beginning to think gay code for handsome means ur good lookonh but not Sexy or Hot Lol ) But I'm what you Might have called bsvk in the day, a nice boy...so pretty Instead of guys calling me gay they'd ask me, are u a girl just to embarrass me. As I said, I grew into myself and when people see older pics of me they don't believe it's me. I know this is the same gor a few guys I know. ps. and be glad u look young...I Am, I pass for 13 years younger nowadays. But u may have internalised homophobia. Gays like so many different types; unlike most females who magazines have told them what handsome should be, gays prefer different types.

Great ideas r73. It might be hard to work on any recent computerised car but an old one. Even bicycles. And HIKING as others have said. It tells the other guys you are fit for a good fuck and not afraid of a little sweat.

Nothing says masculine like fucking in the woods.

R55, well get over it.

You aren't a frat jock.

I want to be a billionaire and young again and have the love of my life back.

But I am not and I won't.

Wallowing in what you're not is a total waste of time. Make necessary changes to better yourself, always work on yourself, but other than that? Accept what you and what you aren't.

R64

“gays prefer different types”

Woman generally want a straight man. One who looks like a straight man, The exact same thing the OP seems to want.

You think they are reading the same magazines?

Walk around the bathhouse with 8 inch hardons?

I stopped reading at ...

[quote] I unfortunately have always been rather feminine, and way too pretty, which really distresses me a lot.

If that's true, many men love exactly that. (The first part, not you stressing about it.) Focus on something outside gender stereotypes like doing something that has value - for you or for others. If people dislike you on principle, you just haven't found your tribe yet. Don't bend yourself like a pretzel to please some imaginary guy.

Honestly, my real advice would be to tell you to stop believing you were born to act this way. All expressions of gender are performance. Maybe it's not a conscious choice for you but you are responding to profound influences and subconscious attachments.

If you want to change how you present, make small changes first of all (walk, stance, gait, handshake) and go from there. But do it because it's what you want for yourself, not because you think it might get you more guys.

Grow a porn 'stache, beard, and mutton chops.

CE how very right wing of you: It's not "born this way" at all! It's all a choice!

As has always been my suspicion: There seems to be a razor thin edge between the far right and the far left.

R72 You appear to have mixed up gender expression and sexual orientation. You also appear to have mixed up your mouth with your asshole.

Try to learn from Armand, OP.

Don't think so R73.

Telling a femme guy that all he has to do is learn how to walk differently is very, very, very right wing: "Just totally change who you really are so that it will look more normal. Or look more like the normal you think you need to be. That's what will make you happy! We swear! Just keep practicing being totally different, over and over, and pretty soon all that icky femme stuff will go away."

He needs to learn to be comfortable with exactly who he is. Femme mannerisms and all. Not try and become something he's not and never will be. No matter how much "straight man" homework he puts in? He ain't going to be a frat jock.

Sheesh.

Dear Truly A Problem: Have you ever been to Italy? Did you leave a dog there? Do you own a Jeep Wagoneer? And do you prefer Miami or Chicago?

I await the answer to r76's question.

Become who you want to fuck, and the rest sorts itself out..

OP, the best advice you have received is from R75.

Honestly, I don’t care too much if a guy is uber masculine or ultra femme or a bit of both. But what turns me on - and I think this is true for many of us - is a guy who is at ease with himself.

Self improvement is great… to learn new skills, to focus on your health, to find new ways to express your creativity.

But people telling you how to stand, how to position your hands, how to modulate your voice are essentially telling you that the real you is not good as you are.

Just be yourself. Men worthy of you will find that attractive. No, not every man you think you want. But more than you might expect. You’re great as you are. Seriously.

R75 I feel like you are projecting a lot of your own stuff onto me here. I'm agnostic about whether OP should change his gender expression or not: I told him he should do what makes him happy. I didn't say anything was or wasn't 'normal': it's perfectly common for men of all sexualities to adopt some 'femme' traits. So chill, I'm not your pastor or your dad.

Gender expression is something we *all*, gay, bi, and straight, perform: from the leather-clad motorbike riding Hell's Angel to the Pinkest Barbiest girly girl and everyone in between. Harry Styles changes his every week. So how are we supposed to find out what our 'real, true, inner selves' are, before we resolve to stay forever true to them? What if what you're talking about is really only the result of whatever happened to influence us in our most formative childhood? To draw an analogy, your accent is your accent and you didn't consciously choose it, but if you move somewhere far away you may (or may not) find it changing whether you consciously want it to or not.

I don't know if that's right-wing or not, it doesn't seem so to me, but then again the great shibboleths of liberal identity politics (STAY in your LANE!) don't always seem very left-wing to me these days either.

r76 no to all. and I'm not a big fan of either Chicago or Miami (Chicago too cold, and Miami way too much sun. Although some very hot guys in Miami and I really stood out since I am very fair)

And guys, NO, I DO NOT want to change my gender. I have never ONCE wanted to be a woman, and have never worn women's clothes (other than one Halloween, but that's another story). I am just going to try to cope as best I can. Drinking will help I suspect.

apropos of nothing, you keep mentioning you are fair.

R82 Six Pack of Corona or a round of Cosmos?

R80 way to deflect and blame shift.

My take on the OP's situation has nothing to do with me at all. I have a bevy of insecurities. But not being masculine enough isn't one of them. At all. Please don't turn things around on me.

Your advice was that he was not "born to act this way" and that all he has to do is practice his walk, etc., and his gender expression can, viola, be changed.

To me? That's dangerous advice. That's exactly what the right has said about being gay for eons.

And, no, not everyone can just "practice" away their gay gait. Or their limp wrist. Even if they want to. In fact, most can't. At all. We can't become something we're not just because we wish it so.

Ten years ago your advice would be met with utter disdain here. As it should. It's regressive, it's a lie and it's unfair to people like the OP. Making them think they have much of a choice in the matter.

r84 neither, sorry. either appletinis (i know) or wine (champagne, and yes, i know). I can't help being me. Maybe I was just a wishful mood today in wanting to be someone I'm not, and as pointed out here many times, I never will be. (sigh)

[quote] be atrracted to women and pussy

There are many complete schlubs who are, so, no.

There are also masc gay men.

[Quote] I told him he should do what makes him happy.

That was big of you.

You need to put away the turquoise belt.

[quote] wine (champagne, and yes, i know).

If you know, I don't! Is champagne gender-coded to you? Where I live it just signifies poshness. These things might be more culturally specific than you think.

R88 wait till you hear about all the things that I'm wishing for you.

r90 I just think of champagne as a frilly drink that a lot of women drink, same for appletinis (i can't help what i like). and i have no idea what you are implying about what you're wishing.

[quote]And, no, not everyone can just "practice" away their gay gait. Or their limp wrist. Even if they want to. In fact, most can't. At all. We can't become something we're not just because we wish it so. R85

Wait, how do you *know* most can't? Several people in this very thread have described how their gender expression has altered over time, either from conscious effort on their part, or simply because it did. Has no-one you know ever significantly changed gender expression? Have you never known a teenager? Have you never known a gay man to come out and suddenly get a lot more feminine? Is that because he is finally acting like his true self - or is it simply that he feels he has a different set of expectations to live up to now?

You say that my comments about gender expression not being fixed are dangerous, because the right says the same about sexual orientation: but that implies that gender expression and sexual orientation are easily comparable phenomena. I think otherwise, I'd say gender expression is closer to an accent, in that it is socially learned, often in childhood, and can potentially also be unlearned.

But let's see if we can agree on this: societal attitudes need to shift further so that the range of 'socially acceptable' gender expression for men is much greater than it now is. No guy with femme characteristics should be bullied, or shamed, or talked down to because of it. I'd also say, and this is also based on some comments in this thread, that we should stop telling masc gay guys that they are internally homophobic or afraid of being their true selves because of their more conventional masc presentation. That attitude is everywhere and it's also reductive and dismissive

The “gay gait” is learned behavior. Babies aren’t born knowing how to walk. They have to learn how to do it.

The fact that you even call it a “gay gait” is homophobic bs.

I can't stand how gender nonsense has fucked everything up. We'd just gotten to the point where femme guys were doing okay and now they either have to transition into girls or try and become frat jocks. And a whole bunch of gays are like, "Yup. That's right. You're either act the part of a girl or a manly man. And you can magically CHANGE into either with a little elbow grease (literally), elocution lessons (but the manly kind), surgery or Metallica T shirt. Depending on which direction you take."

But back on topic: Gender expression is not one size fits all.

Yes, we can all choose to wear Prada shoes or not. No, we can not choose to have gay face or not.

Which we ALL know the very second we see it. Do most of us have gay face? No. Do most of us have a gay gait? No. But we're not discussing most of us. We're discussing femme guys. And I don't think a femme gay can easily change his walk or his damn facial expressions. My god, am I really having to make this argument?

I think you're dead wrong, R8. How many times have you seen a flaming 8 year old? I know I have. "Gender expression", particularly when it comes to physical characteristics, is NOT a choice for many, many men and women.

And to make a femme guy feel like he is wrong because of his fucking gait or gay face is cruel. And stupid. And regressive. And shitty.

Yes, CE, no masc gay need be told he's homophobic. But as a 6'2", 200 pound, ex jock? I don't think the issues I might have to deal with as a "straight acting" gay even remotely compares to what femme gays have to deal with.

And I hate bullies. So I will stand up for the OPs of the world every chance I can. And tell them they are just fucking fine as they are. Thank you very much.

(That should have been R93, not R8)

[quote] And to make a femme guy feel like he is wrong because of his fucking gait or gay face is cruel. And stupid. And regressive. And shitty.

There is no such thing as fucking gay face. Homosexuality is sexual attraction. THAT’S IT. Saying a guy is gay because he has an odd bone-structure is stupid and regressive and shitty. And more homophobic bullshit yet again.

If he wants to change the way he behaves he can. Just because you like it doesn’t mean he has to. It’s all learned behaviour.

There’s honestly no point with people like you who are essentially saying “I’m sorry you hate yourself, just deal with it.”.

R94 I swear this is a totally sincere question: what was it that made the flaming 8 year old flaming? I don't think I've ever seen a flaming 8 year old and I don't quite know what that'd be like, unless you just mean someone who dresses up in mum's clothing. I feel like all 8 year olds will have an element of hyperactive campy playfulness in them.

R94, guys like us need to be more appreciative of our more natural gay cohorts.

R97, I am not r94, but I flamed until puberty. I also had some masculine tendencies. By age 4 I knew almost every car on the road by model year.

R96 I never heard the term 'gay face' before Datalounge, but it seems like Datalounge decrees that every other male celebrity bears this, um, distinction. I feel like it's a weird form of motivated reasoning: if you enter any kind of period of observation with an expectation that you're going to find something, you'll find it.

R99 What were your flaming traits? Did they just go away or did you consciously try to change them?

Hey, OP, the answer is simple: you just have to [italic]act[/italic] straight!

r102 Easier said than done. No matter how hard I try it just doesn't work with me. I could never fool anyone to make them think I'm straight. People know just by looking at me. I've always been like this. It's not as simple as "just do it". It would be like me telling you to act convincingly feminine. I hate that so many people like you are like "no fats, no fems". I'm not fat, but I can't help being who I am. Why can't we all just accept each other? It's bad enough that most of the world doesn't accept us. I'm going to try to start accepting myself, since I literally have no choice.

CE, R101, he was like much like Greg from Curb.

But instead of sewing he was into dance. All of his mannerisms were what we'd call femme. Or gender nonconforming.

I was good friends with his older brother. He was NOT raised to be like that "way". It was NOT a choice. It was NOT learned, that's for sure. His family were abhorred by the poor kid. He was teased mercilessly. But he was damn courageous. In high school, he joined the damn dance team.

He grew up to be wonderful femme gay guy and is a good friend. He couldn't change his mannerisms if he wanted to. Thankfully, he realized early on there was nothing with him and he never tried to change a thing.

Grow a short beard, only a few days worth, not a bushing thing. Keep it trim so it looks like a 5 o'clock shadow. That makes almost every guy look more manly.

Change your fashion choice to the lumber sexual look. You know, like stuff you would find off of L.L. Bean. Ditch the nice shoes and sneakers for boots like what they have at Timberland. Straight masculine guys in general don't really care much about fashion, they go for clothes they can get dirty without worrying about them. Comfort and price rule their world.

R67 I've seen guys go for the oddest choices. Some only want a Daddy,, some want a twink, pthers want a bear, cub, short guy, tall guy. So many on grindr with hot bodies are asking fir femme only or trans. Some want a big dick and honestly don't care who it's attached to. I've seen gays rejected his they were too fit and hot and wud make u feel inadequate in bed. Op may have hit the nail on the head when he said he'd secretly had hot guys...maybe there's loads who like a certain type, but don't want to be see with them. But in general OP, you can't go tru life hating that ur not Masc. Most bears after a few drinks are camp as a picnic basket.

OP, How old are you, if you want to join the military? (Probably won't answer.)

[quote]Drinking will help I suspect.

No R82/ OP it wont. Dont matter if its Coors, Pabst Blue Ribbon , Jack and Coke or a bottle of Thunderbird or Night Train, drinking aint gonna help you none

What will help is learning to love accept yourself as you are, and finding men that will do the same

R103

What a productive thread this has been. And I have not seen many here on the DL.

The OP comes in hating his fem lady like self and he wants to change to a more average normal looking straight guy or butch gay. No uber Queen for him.

And just 103 posts later he now hates it that fem lady like behaviors are not wanted for sex by so many gay men and he has resolved to embrace his ultra fem qualities. Others may not want to fuck him as he wants but he now accepts himself.

Quicker and much cheaper than therapy. A win for DL. Free drinks for everyone. I am sure mental health and self acceptance has been achieved for the OP and things will be better.

R107

The OP is almost 30 years old a vastly anging 28. And he did think of joining the military but he was afraid of getting hurt or raped.

I was never raped I was groped once and I survived the groping. I also experienced a shit load of incoming. So his fears could be at least 50% accurate.

R110

I hate wasting time on silly corrections that every one understood any way. But in this case

Quickly aging not “vastly anging “ which even I don’t understand.

[quote]You need to put away the turquoise belt.

"Oh okay . . . You… go to your closet, and you select… I don’t know, that lumpy blue sweater, for instance, because you’re trying to tell the world that you take yourself too seriously to care about what you put on your back, but what you don’t know is that that sweater is not just blue, it’s not turquoise, it’s not lapis, it’s actually CERULEAN."

There is a better path. PM me

When I jack off, I make deep man noises. Woof

[quote] i am also spastic with the attention span of a jack russell.

Is the root of this something that could be addressed with medication?

You might also want to try therapy with a sympathetic therapist.

OP what perfume do you wear? I would bin it and buy something manly like Brut or Old Spice. Don’t be afraid to burp and fart when in the company of other men.

Pretend your interested in sports, learn how to change the tyres on your car. Don’t carry a clutch purse or a man bag, and don’t ever wear moisturiser. Lastly don’t buff your nails in public.

I went out with a guy once. Really masculine and hung guy. The purse and the shaved pubes killed it.

A U of Sydney study from 2023

Both gay and straight men want to see more masc men in leadership positions not fem men.

Despite all the “we are all in this together and fem men get lots of love and respect” the literature is full of the exact opposite.

Wasn’t this an episode of Will & Grace?

How to define masculinity? A lot of macho looking guys are very feminine in action and behavior. Real macho guys are those G4P models from BCH.

“How are you today?” “Good” “That’s it?” “Sorry can’t talk I’m masc today.”

I don't waste a second of my life worrying about whether I'm coming off as masculine, feminine or otherwise.

Sometimes I probably land on the butch side of things, and sometimes I swish like a pair of wet windshield wipers. Life is short, and I have no time to be concerned with how others perceive that kind of shit.

OP, cultivate the assets you have. Gain confidence in yourself. Be better at what you are good at. Just be yourself. Stop worrying about labels.

Confidence in who you are is incredibly sexy.

That and a cute, tight butt! 😉

OP, just be yourself and accept it.

R118 Somewhat relatedly, did you ever hear of the theatre piece 'Her Opponent'?

They took a series of excerpts from the 2016 Trump-Clinton debates and had them performed by two actors playing a fictional female version of Trump and male version of Clinton, only changing things like names and pronouns. The actors were instructed to stick as closely as possible to the mannerisms, speech patterns, body language and so on of their counterparts in the original debate. Then the audience was asked for their reaction to the debaters.

Apparently the organisers went into it thinking that an audience wouldn't tolerate seeing Trump-like behaviour from a woman, but it was the opposite: the (largely liberal, theatre-goer) audience generally reacted positively to the female Trump, but hated the male Clinton, saying that he seemed 'really punchable'. He went down even worse than the real Mrs Clinton did with the general public.

Unfortunately most of the videos of this are gone but here's some rehearsal footage. I thought this was a great idea when I read about and wish I could have seen the real thing.

I think you need an analyst OP. Otherwise 0/10.

R120- I just subscribed to Beefcakehunter.com the other day ( I've subscribed MANY times over the years) Some of the guys at that site are very hot- not the tattoos and muscules guy- I like slim masculine guys with not tattoos.

I told the little cute twink all he needed was a good woman. And she would straighten his little fem ass up. But he never listened to me

I'm still conflicted. I didn't mention yesterday that my personality is FAR from the way I look. I have a very aggressive, take-charge, alpha personality, but my outward appearance (and thus how people react to me) is that of a weak, feminine twink. On those occasions where I am the one chasing the guy, I always scare them away. A friend of mine told me that men like to do the chasing, but are scared when they themselves are chased. But my problem is, because of my appearance, it leads people into making incorrect assumptions and the way they react and treat me. My personality is SO different than how I appear, I'm just having a hard time adjusting them. Inside I feel like the type of guys I'm intensely attracted to: aggressive, alpha, take-charge, unafraid, but since I appear like a too-pretty, underage, feminine twink, that's how I get treated. When I DO let my personality out (it really comes out whether I want it to or not), a lot of people are shocked, and when I try to express my personality to the guys I like, they always flee. I'm basically like a Jack Russell inside trapped inside the body of a Poodle. A friend used to call me a "Pampered Poodle" which bothered me a lot. We laughed about it, but inside I didn't like it, cause I want to be treated like a regular normal guy, but instead get treated and called things like "Princess" or "Sweetheart" and stuff, ESPECIALLY by straight men. I was just looking for ways to help align my outward appearance with how I feel inside. I feel like a predator inside, but look like prey outside. Thanks to all for your suggestions. I will listen and adjust accordingly (if I can)

Looking like Nicole Kidman combined with a gym membership could land you a job as her stunt double.

[quote] I have a very aggressive, take-charge, alpha personality...

If that were true you would not be here asking questions about what to do about your appearance.

Take charge alpha guy ?

This has to be a send up. Although a well done send up.

Yup, each new iteration moved the scenario along just the right amount. Chapeau!

You bitches are hilarious. Why can't I have an aggressive, alpha personality as well as be conflicted about the way I get treated by my appearance? It's the truth. I'm not totally alpha 100% of the time, which I don't think even the most butch guy is, I mean, we all have our vulnerable, human moments, but my personality does clash with the way I'm treated based on looks, and it's a problem. When I'm out in public I try to be totally focused on my mission so I don't think about the looks, stares, and unwanted attention. I could be dishonest and say it doesn't bother me anymore, that I'm used to it, etc. ,but I'm not. Maybe my frustration makes me compensate by being more aggressive, alpha, etc. I dunno. I just want the guys I like to like me back! THAT'S IT.

@134 Truly a Problem, if you could only practise one kink for the rest of your life what would it be?

Now it has gone into out right comedy.

“Gay twink claims he is afraid to leave the house because he is so pretty”

It’s so tough to be so beautiful and have all those men always checking me out says the Twink who also worries a lot that he will be raped , him being so fem like,

and while he is far to afraid to consider the military , the fear of getting hurt, he is a tough Jack Russel alpha dog that constantly makes others fearful.

[quote]my personality is FAR from the way I look. I have a very aggressive, take-charge, alpha personality

Oh, honey, so does every bitchy queen. You're not unique.

R135

Your Alpha Dog Here

My main kink is making up untrue bullshit and posting it on forums. Silly stories like how I am far to,pretty to leave my room in my moms house because all the men who look at me and try to rape me.

Then I JO while reading the replies

r138 WOW, some of you bitches need to CTFO and take your Midol. But TBH, reading even the trollish replies makes me think. EVEN THOUGH everything I have posted is TRUE (REGARDLESS of what some bitches think or say), this topic has been and IS a legit concern for me, some comments make me realize how selfish, self-centered it sounds (and whiney). BTW, NONE of what you said or tried to imply is true. I see now that honesty and your true feeling have no place here. DAMN, I'm gonna go back to my life and forget you all. Thanks for those of you who gave good and well-intentioned suggestions. I was just having a hard time coping at the moment. I wish there was a way to just DELETE this entire thread. BYE

Buy a pick up truck

Wear flannel shirts as long as they don't make you look like a lesbian.

Don't talk with you hands