I don't think the other members of the What's My Line panel liked Dorothy Kilgallen, Part 6

Previous thread.

A tad premature, OP.

Only slightly premature, R2. You never know when something like a newly discovered Arlene Francis tinsel ad will cause traffic on these threads to increase dramatically.

Arlene in the style of Lempicka...

Arlene interviews a 27 year old Jacqueline Kennedy.

Listen to the dueling posh accents. Hear Arlene gasp: "There's a Caah!" at 4:45.

Jackie picks up laundry. Buys vegetables. Typical Jackie things.

She's so dull she seems mildly retarded but Arlene keeps things moving. Total pro.

Jack stops by and looks good.

I can't believe we're all still here together!

Did Arlene ever comment on her diamond heart pendant on WML? I'm surprised whoever designed it didn't make an appearance as a contestant.

Eldergay mental health warning alert:

I accidentally started reading the previous thread again, and it took an alarmingly long time before I realized I had read those posts before!

Martin gave it to her, r7. It was later stolen.

I know all that, r9, but I wondered if Arlene ever spoke of it publicly, especially on WML. Not about it being stolen but about what it meant o her, if it was given for a special occasion, etc.

Keely Smith.

Father Joseph was a cool cat.

Wasn't a duplicate of Arlene's heart necklace available in stores at one point?

R13, yes. My mother had one. It was a gift from my father on their 15th anniversary in 1961. She wore until the day she died.

^^^ wore IT until ...

After hearing the heart-breaking story of Arlene's mugging, designer Jose Hess created a similar heart necklace. This new necklace was presented to Arlene Francis at a surprise luncheon she attended.

Neil Simon's apartment at Arlene's building, the Ritz on 57th and Park, was on the market 5 years ago:

R5 It's seems inappropriate for Arlene to be so familiar to just call her "Jackie"

Roxanne from BEAT THE CLOCK, mentioned in the previous thread also played the stripper Electra in the movie version of GYPSY.

Cornelia Otis Skinner.

[quote]It's seems inappropriate for Arlene to be so familiar to just call her "Jackie"

She was still just Jackie back then. She hadn't yet become JACKIE!

Arlene's outfit at R5 is rather dowdy. I guess that's because it was a daytime program for housewives.

Miss Roxanne *Arlen* would like a few words with you, r19.

R21, true, but she was still a senator's wife and, as far as I know, not personal friends. In those days, people who didn't know each other well were still "Mrs xxx" and "Mr. xxx", let alone "Sen. xxx".

If they had met privately and socially, I'll bet Arlene would have called her Mrs. Kennedy, which I suspect Jackie would have been more comfortable with. Her TV show may have been trying to create a homier, we're-all-friends-here atmosphere and thus gone straight to first names. Arlene is more than 20 years older than Jackie, so Jackie would have deferred to her usage anyway.

Speaking of names, I wonder if Arlene preferred to be Mrs. Gabel in non-work, social settings. Many married professional women used their husband's surnames socially.

^^^ "husbands' " not "husband's". They didn't all share the same husband!

The Italian bike racer after Cornelia is a cutie.

r11 episode was fun!

Nice to see both ladies stand for the good Father Joseph upon his exit.

Keely Smith had such a distinctive hairdo. I thought I'd remembered it as a classic Louise Brooks bob but it really had quite a 1950s twist what with those spit curls and rat-chewed bangs (is that what they were called?).

The sausage maker 4th guest was an adorable nerd hottie. Wish they'd been able to spend a little more time with him.

Always love seeing Alan King on the panel. I've crushed on him for forever as he reminded me of my childhood bff's hot daddy.

I always confuse Cornelia Otis Skinner with Adela Rogers St. John.

And that Italian bike racer was HOTTTTTTTT!

Keely Smith had a terrific voice. I was aware of her when I was younger but I thought she was more of a novelty act with her deadpan demeanor and Louis Prima. But as an adult, I came to really appreciate her Great American Songbook recordings.

Adela Rogers St. John reminds me of John Huston.

[quote]The Italian bike racer after Cornelia is a cutie.

Beppe Ogna died in 2010. Still handsome in old age.

I’m really glad to see IDTTOMOTWMLPLDK still going strong. Rest in power, part 5.

Yes, r29, Keely had pipes.

[quote]Keely Smith had a terrific voice. I was aware of her when I was younger but I thought she was more of a novelty act with her deadpan demeanor and Louis Prima.

I liked her deadpan demeanor so much, I decided to get myself a deadpan demeanor of my own!

She stole it from me.

What was it about deadpan manners back then? Was it considered sexy?

And how did they come up with the phrase deadpan (is it really one word?)?

Suzanne Goodson, the last of Mark Goodson's three wives, has died.

Deadpan Wiki

Van Cliburn

R39 thanks so much for that clip. When I was in the second grade Van Cliburn was featured in the Weekly Reader when he went to Russian and won the Tchaikovsky competition. I was immediately in love.

My parents bought me the Extended 45 edition of the Piano Concerto in B flat Minor.

Then I saw his picture in Life Magazine and he had RED HAIR. I thought Van Cliburn was his last name....so I called him Tex Van Cliburn and was certain I would grow up and marry him.

Now I want to play my record......

Perle Mesta

Dorothy says Bennett fingered Perle!

*

Am shocked that Dorothy gives out her address on TV to the button maker.

Oops I meant Arlene is the one who gives her address.

Was Ethel Merman TRANS?

I ask because girl mermaids are called “Mermaids” and boys are “Mermen.”

Ethel.

The mice raiser looks like Meryl.

Fred Allen's last years.

R45 Nice real estate. This was before Arlene moved to the Ritz Tower to hunt unsuspecting tourists walking along 57th St.

[quote]Am shocked that Dorothy gives out her address on TV to the button maker.

John Daly, in a 1960s episode, mentions he lives at the Imperial House.

r43 Why is that labeled as a "Broadway Original Cast Album" when Merman is the only one from the original cast on it?

Believe it or not, in the old days (at into the 1970s), many celebrities' addresses and phone numbers were regularly listed in the NY phone directory. I can remember as a kid, wanting to write fan letters and surprised at how easily accessible they were.

Sorry - at least into the 1970s ^^^^^^^^

What a dick fuck you were, R53

/j

R36, it’s still sexy, at least in men. Not smiling at lot or showing much emotion is masculine.

In a beautiful women, a deadpan manner conveyed an indifference and independence that some men would find very appealing.

R39, he’s just about ready to fly right on out of there, isn’t he?

Sorry I can't find him as funny as others do.

Who, r58?

Ethel 2

Ethel does look like a truck driver in drag in Ethel 2.

Don't understand why the audience laughs at the vitamin salesman when he first arrives.

Trini Lopez.

The garbage collector hath a lithp.

Consuelo? Have you seen my dumbbells? I wanted to do some light calisthenics on the terrace…

Pia Lindstrom on the panel. Angela Landsberry as Mystery Guest.

1966 was the year of big dangly earrings and Pia's got them.

Arlene shows us the mask she wore at Capote's Black&White Ball, held the week before. Bennett and John were at the party too.

^ And Angela's got the earrings too.

She was always bitter about Oscar—right there on WML, too

Pia looks more like her father than her mother.

[quote]Angela Landsberry as Mystery Guest.

Jessica Fletcher couldn't solve the mystery of that spelling.

The earrings of 1966

It's so dumb when the panel asks a MG singer to sing a little something for them. Angela is the first one I have seen actually comply. Even Ethel Merman refused.

to support R69

[quote]Angela is the first one I have seen actually comply.

25 year old Bobby Darin graciously complied but did it in such a classy way. Go to 17:50

Tonight on Have Gun, Will Travel:

*The Fatalist*

[quote]Martin Gabel stars as immigrant Nathan Shotness, a murder witness who may be the next victim. Smollet: Robert Blake. Rivka: Roxanne Berard. Viola: Regina Gleason. Paladin: Richard Boone...

Maria Schell before she went crazy.

Maria Schell went crazy?

The R74 episode Arlene's eyebrows seem stenciled on.

Did handsome Max Schell ever make it over to WML?

He did.

No not according to his IMDb.

R72, Louis Armstrong sang "Hello, Dolly" for the panel. His recording of the song eventually hit #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 on May 9, 1964, the first non-Beatles song at the top of the chart since January 25.

It's always Arlene who asks the MG to sing, as far as I've seen. She's completely charming when she asks (she also asks dancer-MG's to dance off the stage!), but in one of the earlier threads, there was a post stating that JCD didn't approve of any performances on the show. He certainly seems to enjoy Satchmo here, though.

In R74 they all comment on the beauty of the TV weather girl but I'm not seeing it.

In R74 they all comment on the beauty of the TV weather girl but I'm not seeing it.

R77 - Max's 2005 documentary on his sister showed her mental and emotional health deteriorated under the pressure of unhappy love affairs and a neurological disorder that robbed her of discipline and judgment. She has become a recluse in their parents’ old chalet in Austria and has spent herself into bankruptcy–a fate from which he rescues her by selling his own art collection. Oblivious to it all, she spends much of her days watching her old movies on TV, imprisoned in the past, that heart-piercing smile still playing on her now-aged features.

An Austrian Miss Havisham!

Other than that rather misbegotten version of The Brothers Karamazov with Yul Brynner, William Shatner and Lee J Cobb, did Maria Schell make any other American films?

JCD referred to the weather girl as an extraordinarily handsome young lady so perhaps he didn't see quite the beauty there either, r83.

I remember Jeanne Parr as the local New Haven TV weather girl when I was a student at Yale. She wasn't so young by then.

Jeanne Parr

Oooh, Jeanne with Glenda!

Maria also made The Hanging Tree which is referenced in the R76 show.

Jill St. John.

Jill went to Vietnam with Bob Hope.

[quote] Jeanne Parr

R89 Ooh! Her pearls really set off that weather front drawn on the chalkboard weather map.

[quote]Other than that rather misbegotten version of The Brothers Karamazov with Yul Brynner, William Shatner and Lee J Cobb, did Maria Schell make any other American films?

She's not even the most famous Austrian Maria.

Jill St. was back as the MG on August 20, 1967 but this is post-Dorothy so for me less interesting.

Allan Sherman

Maria Schell was in As The Sea Rages (1959) with Cliff Robertson, also played the lead in the remake of Cimarron (1960), with Glenn Ford and Anne Baxter. And The Mark (1961) with Stuart Whitman.

Noticed in R97 Arlene is wearing pearls and not her heart necklace.

Allan Sherman as panelist.

I found Maria Schell's perma-smile very annoying, btw.

My favorite episode is where Pat Suzuki is the mystery guest and one of the panelists joyously tells her they were all singing "Grant Avenue" from "Flower Drum Song" in the green room just before the taping of the show.

The image of Bennett Cerf singing, "Dong-dong! You're in Hong Kong, having yourself a time..." blew my mind.

Bennett was more likely to sing "The girl who serves you all your food is another tasty dish."

R100 "Did I ever give you a lift after a party at Joan Crawford's"

You gotta love Dorothy.

Did Bennett ask Pat if she was of the Oriental persuasion?

Pat Suzuki.

Is this the album Dorothy was referencing?

In the R106 Franklin Heller segment JCD references the previous week where they had the intruder come on set.

It's the most exciting tho-rough-fare I know!

Bill Hartack in R100 looks like Sean Hayes.

Nancy Walker.

Helen Traubel.

Jeez Wally Cox brings the game to a grinding holt.

I can't recall a worse panelist than Wally Cox. Surely he was never invited back.

Yes his humor leaves me stone faced. He was a panelist one more time on the episode March 27, 1955. He was the MG on September 20, 1953.

His wonderful talents are just as tedious and unfunny when he was the guest.

Wally Cox made me long for the witty badinage of Sam Levenson.

R114, Why was Marlon Brando so besotted with him?

I loved Wally as Mr. Peepers, but his nervous shyness in that role is exactly what makes him awkward and vaguely embarrassing in other contexts.

Wally was cute with a script. But ad libbing....just no.

For me, anyway, Victor Borge is right down there with Wally as worst panelist ever.

I wonder if the panelists were all singing songs from Rodgers & Hammerstein's Sweet Thursday before Helen Traubel's appearance?

Sorry, I meant Pipe Dream (based on Steinbeck's novel, Sweet Thursday).

With Dorothy and Arlene and Bennett, I like Tony Randall as the 4th panelist though am not a fan of his acting, and Robert Q. Lewis. I like Joey Bishop for the hot factor.

[quote] Jeez Wally Cox brings the game to a grinding holt.

Reminds me of my cousin, Adele Holt. She was a stripper.

R124, those are good choices. I thought I was the only one who found Joey Bishop hot.

Tony Randall is pretty good, although he can be annoyingly mannered. RQL is an excellent player. Right now I'm watching 1964, and Steve Lawrence has been a guest panelist quite a bit. He's a good player and awfully cute.

Out of loyalty and liking, though, I'd have to put Martin Gabel at the top of the list of guests panelists. His charm, self-deprecating humor, great voice, and the fact that he obviously adores Arlene make him a favorite for me. I'm always happy when he turns out to the guest.

^^^ "... turns out to BE the guest PANELIST." Jeez, I haven't even had a cocktail yet.

Joey Bishop did not age well.

Joey Bishop was known to be a prick to work with/for, much like Jerry Lewis, Danny Kaye, etc.

Regis Philbin was ABC late night host Joey Bishop’s announcer/sidekick.

He was my sidekick!

And mine!

And mine!!!!

R126 - Haha I forgot about Martin Gabel. Have you ever seen him on the same panel with Bennett and Dorothy and Arlene?

Chuck Dressen.

Never heard of him! Would baseball managers be recognizable today to the general public?

Chuck Dressen was manager of my hometown Detroit Tigers. Due to illness, he had to retire early in the season. He died that August. His interim successor, Bob Staff, also took ill & was unable to complete the season. He also was to die that fateful year.

^ In 1966

R133, And mine!

Can't remember if it was in one of these WML threads or another one entirely but there was a discussion of "deadpan" and some felt it could be a very sexy vibe. I guess Joey Bishop had a kind of deadpan thing going.

Despite the bland exterior, Wally Cox was an avid weightlifter and had a very fit bod underneath those clothes. That may be part of what Brando saw in him...

R135 makes references to Dorothy being back so I was curious who was in the previous show.

[quote]For me, anyway, Victor Borge is right down there with Wally as worst panelist ever.

Victor Borge gets my vote as the least funny "funnyman" ever. I watched an episode of "I've Got a Secret" recently in which Borge was setting up some elaborate musical routine that seemed to involve a hundred people. It just went on and on and on. I had to turn it off because I was losing my will to live.

Faye Emerson also filled for Dorothy on September 14, 1952.

Herb Shriner.

R134, yes, Martin was probably the most frequent guest panelist and was on with the three regulars often. It made for a cozy group because of course Martin knew Dorothy and Bennett almost as well as Arlene. He didn’t feel like a guest but rather a regular alternate.

R136, NFL coaches (and quarterbacks) might be more recognizable today, but still not as much as baseball seems to have been in WML days.

R141, that, and Wally was cute. It’s also possible that his annoying manner on WML was mostly an ill-advised shtick, and he was more bearable IRL.

R144, Faye filled in for Dollie Mae a few times later on as well. I started my WML binge with 1955, and I’ve seen her several times. She had an off-putting way about her. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but she was a bit distant and lacking in the warmth and humor our regulars have. Didn’t she later on go crazy or become a recluse or something?

Think Bill Belichick as a mystery guest…that’s what it would have been like…

Faye E.

Wally Cox was a great Mystery Guest.

He was doing an impression of his best friend Marlon Brando in "Streetcar".

Very funny.

^ And you just know Brando was watching this and laughing it up.

^^ And getting hard over it.

My boyfriend's bitter

No followers on Twitter

I'm shaving my shoulder

More hair as I get older

And all because of the show where no one pays.

^oops that was for the Ben Platt thread.

Didn’t she later on go crazy or become a recluse or something?

Are you confusing Faye Emerson with Frances Farmer? She looks just like her.

Butterface?

r156, did you read r150?

Just watched the Wally Cox as MG episode. Hilarious, it's no wonder they asked him to be a guest panelist. Sad that didn't work out better.

Arlene: Are you a low comic?

Yogi Bear.

3 beautiful people, plus Suzy Parker on the panel.

Watching that episode, it was noticeably duller without Arlene's presence.

Funny/sad to think Miss Iceland the telephone operator and the cute Peace Corp worker would both be well into their 80s now, or dead.

Suzy Parker is a lousy panelist but so beautiful.

I loved the audience...and John Daley's... reaction to the entrance of Yogi.

Berra is very charismatic.

Suzy sure seemed to be flirting with the Peace Corps guy.

Tuesday Weld. Another episode without Arlene.

Miyoshi Umeki

r166 Surely you're aware that any reference to Miss Umeki MUST be preceded by "The delicate, some would say flower-like ... " on Datalounge.

[quote]"The delicate, some would say flower-like ... "

She hit me in the head with a fondue pot.

Arlene making a wisecrack about sukiyaki?!

So funny when Dorothy is trying to guess the flea raiser. Bennett suggests cockroach and she asks, "WHAT would you be breeding them for?!"

Fun fact: Yogi Berra and Joe Garagiola were childhood friends.

FF: they were FB

Tuesday Weld acquitted herself admirably but something tells me she just didn't want to be there with all those old fuddy-dudddies. I've never heard of the film she was promoting BACHELOR FLAT. Anyone?

Bennett at R173. The kids have this new-fangled thing: Gidget, or Gurgle, or similar

Tom Poston.

When he was nearly 80, Tom Poston married Suzanne Pleshette. She was in her late 60s. Now that was an unexpected pairing.

^She was in her early 60s.

He was also a panelist 8 times.

That was a wild head jewel on the dental assistant in R175.

Interesting comment on the YouTube page for R178 that calls back to the title of the thread.

Having watched a lot of these episodes in a row, there's definitely a little something-something between Dorothy and Martin. Martin might just be the only one who's truly nice to her (the others just seem to tolerate her), so she feels warmer towards him. It's very sweet how kind Martin is to her when the others are cold or indifferent.

R176, They had dated many years prior, so it was a reconnection. After he died, Suzanne discovered he was much wealthier than she knew, but she didn’t live much longer to enjoy it.

Jo Stafford.

R181 Basically, Emily married The Peeper.

Mystery Guest Leslie Uggams. Adorable

Michele Lee looking gorgeous.

And both are still with us!.

How short is Martin Gabel?

What a beautiful theatrical voice he had.

Tom Poston was no Troy Donahue.

Martin Gabel did, indeed, have a wonderful voice. He was also one hell of an actor -equally adept at drama and comedy. It is a shame he is so little remembered. Many threads ago someone called him a troll, and questioned what Arlene ever saw in him.. I'd say it was probably that he was smart, kind, funny, and talented.

Weak chin—that’s why they got along well…^^

^Wrong wife.

No —my comment was as to how he got along with Dorothy

Martin Gabel's great voice led to much work as a voiceover talent. He narrated many a documentary.

Nothing against Martin, I enjoyed his WML appearances very much and he co-starred in the first Broadway show I saw, BAKER STREET, as Moriarty. But seriously, r186. what other roles should we be remembering him from?

R191, The boss Tippi Hedren stole money from in “Marnie”.

Sadly, he didn't do much film work. My favorite is his uncredited role in Lord Love a Duck with Roddy McDowell and Tuesday Weld. He plays a teen-movie producer/director who wants to make Weld a star, talking Hollywood production budgets while standing in line for his unemployment check. It's a memorable role -not a tiny cameo. I don't know why it was done uncredited.

What is happening with the window washers hair in R184?

R180 and R186, I only know Martin from WML, but he's always warm, kind, gracious and self-deprecating on the show. From all appearances, he was a lovely man. And I'll be he was great in bed. Arlene seems like a very satisfied woman.

The Leslie Uggams was referenced before. and it was noted how her makeup makes her look bizarre.

Miss Janis Paige is DEAD to us.

^^^ BOO! I don't need more bad news today.

Janis was never on WML.

Our loss!

[quote]Janis was never on WML.

I've Got a Secret and To Tell the Truth are What's My Line? adjacent.

They were the cream of the game show crop.

Allen Funt.

Allen Funt was one of the most disliked men in show business.

Both Joan Rivers and Liz Smith wrote of the horror of working for him.

What about Dorothy Collins and Fannie Flagg? They also worked with Funt on Candid Camera.

I always felt sorry for Bess Myerson that they made her sit on the far end of the panel on I've Got a Secret. On WML Dorothy and Arlene would switch the seat between the two male panelists and at least the loser got to sit at the head of the panel, not the rear end.

They had to keep Betsy & Henry apart after Henry made a comment that offended Betsy.

This is the July 1967 show where Henry Morgan was openly rude to Bennett during the introductions which angered John Daly.

It's not much of a story. Plus they hire comediennes to do the show so they want them to be irreverent.

What's particularly unfortunate about Henry's remarks re Bennett is they seem to come from something that was said or occurred backstage, before the game began. He's just mean-spirited and the moment is so awkward, nothing funny or humorous about it, even as a jibe. I wonder what was behind it all.

R210, It was two months before the final show of the series, I’m guessing that was Henry’s final appearance.

That was Henry's last live appearance on the show, R211, but a pre-taped show with Henry aired subsequently.

Had I've Got a Secret already ended its run?

r208 I guess I must be ancient because I recognized Everett Dirksen right away.

[quote] Had I've Got a Secret already ended its run?

Yes, its final telecast was April 3, 1967.

Someone mentioned Julie London having tension on the show with Dorothy. Let's see #1.

Julie London. I always thought that was such a pretty name.

Love her sexy sultry 1950s album covers.

Get a load of this:

She fucked Randolph Mantooth behind the fire truck parked outside the hospital, but just that one time.

r216, that is not the tension-filled Julie London segment.

Julie London #2

Dorothy fancied herself a singer and enjoyed singing for her party guests.

I'm not sure anyone on the panel had much patience for Julie London at r220. I think that was actually the first of her 2 MG appearances and she stumped them all both times, a difficult performer to categorize, I guess.

But the false teeth maker for cows was one very handsome dude.

Julie London is gorgeous in that episode but the panel seemed quite annoyed with her antics, especially Dorothy.

Up until Julie, the show is hilarious. Very free and loose.

The false teeth maker for cows was handsome indeed, and that interpreter was quite a looker too.

The interpreter Alexander Akalovsky died in 2020 at the age of 97.

I was on I've Got a Secret when I was three years old. In 1954. One of the panelists was my godfather, and they wanted a cute episode with a kid.

I wish I could find a tape of that show but I'm not sure they taped tv back then. Can anyone help?

Julie London #3.

R225, a good many of the early IGaS episodes, in which Garry Moore would introduce the show as a “snoopy” kind of show, can be found on the BillCullenNet YouTube channel.

Connie Francis. With Jerry Lewis as guest panelist.

The tiger trainer when young.

R228 Dorothy guessed Connie Francis in no time.

Connie Francis was IMMENSELY popular from around 1959-1964. And though beginning as a teen fave, their parents loved her, too.

Connie looks short.

R232 = Addison DeWitt

Sheilah Graham, Helen Hayes.

Sheilah Graham always seemed so pleasant and lady-like. Not like the cunty gossip columnist she actually was.

For a "supposedly" brilliant actress, Helen Hayes didn't seem to have a clue as to how to disguise her voice.

^^^ She was so used to putting on "character" voices that she probably assumed no one would recognize her actual voice.

R232 She is short at 5 ft. and 1 in. 6ft. with heels and hair!

Helen Hayes' first appearance on July 1 1951 seems to be lost. But here is her second appearance.

Dorothy and Arlene stood for Helen Hayes as she was leaving the stage.

I didn't hear that Michael Romanoff has any accent.

Since he was actually American, that's no surprise, R241.

Mike Romanoff was a prince like Zsa Zsa’s husband is a prince.

Althea Gibson

^ I can definitely see one of the regulars telling Althea Gibson that she was a credit to her race.

R231 The ovation when Connie Francis entered was tremendous!

I don't think anyone under 65, or maybe even 70, would understand (or believe) how popular Connie Francis once was, however briefly that fame lasted.

R247, It wasn’t all that brief. Connie had a string of hit records for years in the 1950s and 1960s.

The fans sounded like girls.

R247, here's Connie's discography. She dropped off the charts pretty quickly after 1962.

I'm 67, and I always put her in the category of other teen idols like Paul Anka (on WML several times) or Frankie Avalon. I knew who she was, but I never thought of her as a current pop star because I wasn't paying attention to pop songs before around 1965.

Oops. The CF discography.

Althea sings.

IIRC in the 1961 WML clip, JCD congratulates Connie on her 7 gold records and $15 million worth of sales and that was just between 1959 and 1961.

Maybe that doesn't sound like much in these days of Taylor Swift and Beyonce, I don't know. Connie was pretty much done by the time the Beatles showed up in 1964 but she had an incredible if short run, especially for a woman singer in the world of rock and roll, transistor radios and 45s.

R252. She was also a professional golfer. The first black woman to play in the women’s PGA tour.

R247 It was not brief! She racked up 17 million selling singles and was a top concert draw throughout the 1960s and beyond. She racked up 57 chart hits just in the USA. In the 1990s, she signed major contracts, and she continued to appear throughout the world. Not brief at all! Her problems produced sporadic shifts, but she was still a top concert draw. A 6 decade career.

R248 I agree. In fact it was quite long when you consider her concert career, and how it survived the traumas of the 1970s and 1980s. She settled back down in the mid 1990's and became more consistent, and even has some Carnegie Hall appearances to great reviews.

Here career as a contemporary A list performer was very brief.

YouTube is filled with her disastrous performances from the 70s through the 90s.

An SCTV skit come to life:

[quote]Not brief at all! Her problems produced sporadic shifts, but she was still a top concert draw.

Oh please. She's like Bobby Rydell, Fabian, Avalon, Bobby Vinton...they were all still packing them in Atlantic City, still "top concert draws". But who cares? They were/are nostalgia acts. Frankie Valli lip syncs to his old recordings and has sell-out performances. Frankie Avalon is in his 80s and grandmas want to hear him croak through "Venus". They have die-hard fans.

Listen, I adored Connie Francis as much as anyone when I was a pre-teen in the early 1960s, but by 1965, she was about as relevant in show biz as George Jessel.

Barbara Ann Scott and her little dog.

Dorothy was the one who most liked Pierre.

Who was Barbara Ann Scott? She must be the only (non pro athlete) MG in WML history I've never heard of.

And yes, I know who Portland Hoffa and Peggy King were.

Olympic gold medal figure skater.

Who was Sonja, or Tenley, or Carol, or Peggy, or Dorothy, or Katarina, or Kristi, or …so on

There are lots of (mostly '50s) MGs who are unknown to me, a pop culture enthusiast & Boomer, R262. And, under the heading, "Fame is Fleeting," most of the MGs could be would be unknown today to a maskless panel of celebrities.

Or Souji, or Trixie, or Anett… and so on

She had a good life…

R259 Her singles sales may have diminished, but she was still a huge concert act, appearing at all major venues - The Copa, Carnegie Hall, The London Palladium, LV, AC, all over. In the mid-1990s, she was able to pull herself up financially by her major concert contracts. Yes, in the early 1960s, she was one of the biggest stars in the world. I do think that with the exception of a few, her choice of single releases left something to be desired, a complete contrast to the late 1950s and early 1960s. She was relevant to adult concert goers post-1965. Everyone's singles success tends to wane over time. She was a great entertainer and she then emphasized that aspect.

Connie's success was immense that it now took Taylor Swift to break her records. All those years! SMASH!

R258 She was in a category all her own. I think Joel Whitburn also made that remark. She left her teen idol status, but really was beyond that at the b=very beginning of her career, loved by all generations. While the teens loved her, the adults did as well. Dick Clark stated that she was a rare entertainer, performing for teens by day and in sophisticated adult venues by night.

The Copa? At the Copacabana?

Still in a dress she used to wear…Faded feathers in her hair?!

[quote]Her singles sales may have diminished, but she was still a huge concert act, appearing at all major venues - The Copa, Carnegie Hall, The London Palladium

We was spectacular in concert! Just watch!

At the R&R Diner?! Is that on Route 3A?

That’s Liza time, R271!

We've awakened the Connie Francis troll!

Woody Allen on panel.

Mary is a gangly gal.

R271 That was an exception. She was overmedicated for the 1989 London Palladium concert, and she left the stage early, producing chaos. The venue redid the stage for her appearances there and she was unable to perform. She appeared on TV the next morning only to make things worse. She was all over the UK tabloids. She later redeemed herself. Yes, she did have her bad performances during that era. Once she pulled herself together, things changed. She amassed over a 100,000,000 in record sales, not a brief career, and while she was almost bankrupt during the tine of this performance, she got herself up and was able to amass her current fortune through concerts. There were great Carnegie Hall concerts. I saw her at VFMC in 1990 in AC where she was just OK and seemed tired, and then again in 1993 where she was spectacular. She, herself, was surprised on that night, but that marked the beginning of her triumphs. She should be credited for getting back her life and fortune. She does own part of her catalog and she releases them as she pleases, and licenses them out when she wants to. She is still active behind the scenes, but in general, she lives a happy and active life, and continues to live like a superstar.

R277 Yeah, right.

Please post one of her magnificent performances from the 1990s.

We'll wait.

Bert Lahr.

Congressman John Lindsay was so handsome and glamorous at r279!

R277

Great show! It was shown on A & E's Diamond Showcase.

Gee...I remember this shown. It was a really good show. I have it on tape, and Diamond Showcase opened with "Only the very best performers get to be on Diamond Showcase."

I listen to this 1996 CD quite often.

[quote]Congressman John Lindsay was so handsome and glamorous at [R279]!

Triggered.

My Brooklyn residing WW II veteran uncle used to refer to Lindsay as “Mayor Pretty Boy”.

Who insists on infesting threads with that cheap, awful Connie Francis tramp?

Connie’s BBC rapist was never caught.

He was a British TV presenter, R287?

R280 - but I think his teefs were jacked.

[quote] but I think his teefs were jacked.

Yeah, Lindsay then represented a silk stocking district & had such a Kennedy-like bearing that I just erroneously assumed he was a blue blood.

If only my poppa had let me marry Bobby Darin, my life would have been so different! Damn you, Sandra Dee!

I’m old enough to remember John Lindsay appearing on the television series “The Farmer’s Daughter”.

Lindsay then represented a silk stocking district

He was top drawer!

R283 They went all out when they designed that CD cover, no expense spared!

I think Dorothy at r279 was at her most attractive. The simple black cocktail dress really suited her and offset her dark brunette hair (so preferable to her redhead years), caught back in a 60s flip with, I'd imagine, a faux wiglet at the crown. Less flashy jewelry, too.

No one looked like Mary Travers before she arrived on the scene. In a few years, millions of girls would (at least try to) look like her.

Tommy Sands.

Tommy and Nancy divorced that July.

And Tommy was convinced that Frank had him blackballed from ever playing Vegas after the divorce.

Mary Travers' bangs and long straight hair was still rare in 1963. I can't think of any other popular female entertainer in the early '60s with that hairstyle.

Didn't I say exactly that (in different words), r300? The WML segment is from 1963.

[quote]No one looked like Mary Travers before she arrived on the scene

I love how timeless she looks here compared to Joni...

She reminds me of that Muppet character Janice with the stringy hair.

Andy Devine.

^ He looks so different than he did in Pink Flamingos.

I thought Connie sounded fine in that telethon appearance. I thought she was going to be all missing notes and stuff. Her voice sounded fine.

Jane Froman.

Jane seemed to walk just fine.

Her sheer gloves with vein lines were odd.

R308 She seems to move well with a leg brace.

I am now resigned to the fact that the WML threads will never, ever disappear, because there are a literally infinite number of related topics.

We like to think of it as Universal Appeal, R311. :)

Leo Derocher.

R304 the Psychiatrist gets a big laugh when Hal asks if he would benefit from his services.

Although introduced as British, Barbara Kelly came from Vancouver which might explain why she doesn't have a British accent.

Is that when Leo and Laraine were married? (And it's DUROCHER, not Derocher.)

Yes.

The DeMarco Sisters.

How the hell did the panel not get Andy Griffith in this episode (October 31, 1965)? He had the number 6 TV show for the '65-'66 season. They knew the MG was a television star with a show that carried his own name. They knew it was a comedy (and thus almost certainly 30 minutes), and they knew it was on CBS. And yet they couldn't figure out one of the biggest TV stars of his era.

On the other hand, when AG was on some years earlier, closer to his Broadway years, they got him right away as I recall. Sometimes it's annoying how out of touch with popular culture the panel was, and it was just getting worse in the mid-'60s.

Andy in 1958

The DeMarco Sisters sing to the panel which recalls previous comments about guests being asked to sing.

Did they ever have the Borden Twins? (AKA Teensy and Weensy)

No.

In R319 the stockbroker gets wolf whistles and the panel comment on how attractive she is. Dorothy calls her decorative. But I find her too tranny Cleopatra-ish.

R315 Well she was from British Columbia...

The lobster seller lady in R275 is the very definition of pinched.

Do you really think Dorothy, Bennett and Arlene watched The Andy Griffith Show? Or any of those CBS sitcoms in the 60s?

Andy in 1959.

[quote]Do you really think Dorothy, Bennett and Arlene watched The Andy Griffith Show? Or any of those CBS sitcoms in the 60s?

All three of them adored "Hee-Haw."

R327, that was my point. They were out of touch with the rest of America, and now that my WML viewing has moved into a time period I remember first-hand, it annoys me sometimes - all the more so because their world was losing its relevance to the national monoculture and they seem oblivious. I still enjoy watching and think of all of them almost as family. (It was hard to watch Dorothy's last show and tribute show. It really saddened me.) But by 1965 they were out of touch in a way they hadn't been 10 years earlier - not because they had changed but because the culture had changed and they hadn't.

To answer your point, in those days, even if you didn't watch a show, you knew all about it because of network publicity and general conversation. There were only so many hit shows on TV, and anyone well informed about American popular culture was familiar with the top-rated programs whether they watched them or not.

You just now figured this out?

The nudist camp owner in R320 gets some great laughs from the audience.

r330 I get your point (to a degree) but you have to realize you're comparing your cultural preferences and awareness as a 1960s teenager (or child?) to middle aged show biz society people who rarely spent an evening at home watching television.

Roy Campanella

She doesn’t look like Roy. I don’t see her wheelchair in the preview pic.

[quote]They were out of touch with the rest of America

NYC society people, the cultured, the art crowd...were all "out of touch with the rest of America" and always were.

R335 the episode comes from 1953 where he can walk. Roy had his car accident in 1958. The lady in the preview pic is a lipstick demonstrator.

😳 now you tell me?!

Keep in mind, too, that 1953 was the first year that more than half of US households had a television set. There were large parts of the country that had no reception (still are, but now there's cable and satellite reception in many of them.)

In 1953 people read daily, morning and evening newspapers, listened to the radio for a lot (if not most) of the information they consumed and could still watch a fourth national TV network: Dumont. Which folded in 1955.

Roy looks like he had some junk in his trunk.

He was a catcher —duh.

The lipstick lady gets some laughs when Steve Allen asks about using her product.

The panel being "out of touch" with the rest of America is EXACTLY what made the show fun and at times hilarious. Guessing occupations like Lipstick Tester, Amusement Park Skirt Blower and Maker of Cow Blankets or a grandmotherly type who's a Motorcycle Cop is so much more fun when the sleuths are hoity-toity 1 % types. I think, if anything the show just suffered by the mid-1960s when it became kind of repetitive. And of course, the absence of Dorothy.

Did Martin Gabel ever appear with Arlene in the daily syndicated version of WML?

Only once, R344. As the mystery guest.

Mickey Mantle

Thank you R345 - too bad John Daly never came back as a mystery guest. He seemed to have disappeared from public view.

R347, He took part in the WML? 25th anniversary special in 1975.

John did come back, in 1975, to co-host, with Arlene, a 25th anniversary show on ABC's Wide World of Entertainment, a late night show that ran for three years.

Thank you, R349.

I read somewhere - maybe DL - that Arlene's barbell death settlement cost her $200K which was an absolute fortune in the early 1960s.

Even, assuming insurance coverage, this had to hurt and explains why she continued with the syndicated run of the show for its entirety - she needed the money.

It's amusing how people speak of Arlene Francis and Dorothy Kilgallen as if they were intellectuals.

R348 R349 Do you expect us to watch an hour-long show?

R352 who here has described Arlene Francis and Dorothy Kilgallen as intellectuals?

R354 Didn't someone post that they were above watching things like sitcoms? I mean what reason would that be other than they were too "smart" for them?

Judging from some of Arlene's other jobs, such as hosting a chat show and a game show called Blind Date, it seems like she would not be above watching The Andy Griffith Show or keeping up with network TV in general. Arlene was a TV host and panelist (and actress) and her husband was an actor and producer. They were show biz. Not above show biz.

[quote]Didn't someone post that they were above watching things like sitcoms?

They were sophisticates, r355, not intellectuals. Their evenings weren't spent sitting at home watching TV.

R357 Oh, please. I'm sure they watched TV sometimes like everyone else.

Kilgallen wrote about entertainment news (at least partly). She had to know something about what she was writing about and the people she wrote about.

R357, Dorothy told mystery guest Shirley Booth that she watched “Hazel”.

Entertainment news in NYC was also theater, movies and nightclubs.

Les Paul and Mary Ford.

R361 You can't separate them. The same people appeared on 50s TV (and 60s) as appeared in theater, movies, nightclubs. A lot of TV in those days was variety. And a lot of people from nightclubs and theater had TV shows. Phil Silvers, Joey Bishop, and yes even Andy Griffith.

Griffith's appearances on Broadway and movies led to his TV show.

It's like you're suggesting sophisticated New Yorkers in later times wouldn't have watched Seinfeld or Friends. The old TV sitcoms may seem simple minded to us now but they were very popular then. And these people had kids and must have spent time with them watching television - a major pastime then.

The early Andy Griffith, as himself, would often play the hayseed.

[quote]You can't separate them.

Of course I can, r363. Theater, movies and nightclubs are mostly evening activities. They aren't watching TV every evening like an average household. Nobody is saying they *never* watched TV.

The Andy Griffith Show did not have the same kind of humor as Friends or Seinfeld. I'm not saying it wasn't as good or as funny, just that it had a very different sort of aesthetic, one that I personally can't imagine appealing to the Cerf, Kilgallen or Franics/Gabel households. Nor even to the Cerf and Francis/Gabel sons, if you know anything about them.

Was it lowbrow?

It was...rural.

It was Gold, CBS, Gold!

R369 It was a top-ten-ranked show, you really never know what people watch. There was not the same amount of fodder to choose from on TV ten. I would have thought my own mother would not watch Andy Griffith but she watched it. Because it was on. The choices then were SEVERELY limited. And most people - even the exalted What's My Line panel, probably relaxed with a drink in front of the old b&w.

The corset buyer in R362 was stacked so it's a surprise she got no wolf whistles.

So, I just watched the 1958 and the 1965 Andy Griffith segments.

When he had a hit film playing at Radio City Music Hall, No Time for Sergeants, hardly intellectual fare, in which Andy played a classic hick, the panel had no trouble identifying him in the first round. But when he played a country sheriff on a hit Tv series, not even in its first year, they hadn't a clue and clearly had no idea who ANY of the male TV stars currently in hit sitcoms were, even with the added clue that the series contained his own name.

These people did not watch TV sitcoms, not even guest panelist Steve Allen, apparently. Their guesses: Joey Bishop, Steve Lawrence and Arhtur Godfrey, said a lot about their TV viewing habits.

The hit film was from the hit Broadway play which he had won a Tony award for, r374.

Bennett's widow Phyllis married the former New York City mayor Robert F. Wagner.

Like Jackie On Assistance, she had no use for widowhood and got right back in the game with a powerful new man.

She was a Phyllis not a Sally, r376.

SLUTS - both of them.

R376 - I think we drowned Phyllis off some boat somewhere but I was too drunk to remember. It was a long time ago.

[quote] Even, assuming insurance coverage, this had to hurt and explains why she continued with the syndicated run of the show for its entirety - she needed the money.

R351 Yes, although Arlene also was a self-proclaimed workaholic. I think it may have served the family well because Martin, being an actor and producer, probably had irregular income. He may have done the lion’s share of raising their son Peter, who by many accounts grew up to be a wonderful person who died way too soon.

These were people with very active social lives, who dined out every night, went to parties, dinners, night clubs, the theatre, concerts, the opera....they weren't watching The Andy Griffith Show. I would imagine if they knew someone who was performing on The Perry Como Show, or Dinah Shore or Ed Sullivan they might watch it. But sitting through "Pete and Gladys", I just don't think so.

R376, Bennett Cerf meets his wife’s future husband.

Phyllis Fraser

spouses

^ I like the two bill collectors.

Hmm, spoke too soon. Contradicting what I said at R319, here’s the show from June 5, 1966 with Vince Edwards. They got him at $10, with Arlene saying, “everybody knows the doctor – Dr. Casey ... Vince Edwards." Bennett was clued in by a promo that had run in the Daily News, but Arlene knew without having seen the ad. No surprise that Arlene would know a series with such a handsome star,

Speaking of which, Vince looks good enough to eat here. What a gorgeous man! Ben Casey was a good show; I used to watch it in reruns years after the series ended. I wish they'd remaster it and issue the full series for streaming or on DVD. The DVDs that exist are poor quality and incomplete, and there are only a few episodes on YouTube.

R386, Back in the 1960s, you were either Camp Dr. Kildare or Camp Ben Casey.

The media at the time fueled the competition between Richard Chamberlain and Vince Edwards.

For a brief number of years in the 1960s, you couldn't be a bigger TV star than Vince Edwards or Richard Chamberlain. Though neither of their shows were geared to teenagers, their hotness had incredible crossover appeal that made them heartthrobs to girls and gaylings around the world. At least, until the Beatles showed up in 1964 with a whole new aesthetic of hotness.

There's a great episode of The Hollywood Palace out there with gorgeous Vince hosting and singing and dancing. Shame that he never trod the boards in a Broadway musical, but maybe Richard Chamberlain's attempt in the notorious flop musical of Breakfast at Tiffany's scared him away. I can't remember ever hearing of Vince doing summer stock either.

I’m sure Vince Edwards had fun making this television movie with these four ladies.

[quote]The media at the time fueled the competition between Richard Chamberlain and Vince Edwards.

True, everyone knew about those two even without ever watching their shows.

And then there was Mr. Novak

"Arlene and these people watched TV - she was too busy dining out every night and going to fancy parties!"

"Arlene liked the TV show Ben Casey. But of course she would, that's different! Vince Edwards was sooo gorgeous."

People who can never be wrong.

Imagine a person on a TV show who actually watches other people on TV shows! The mind boggles.

R390, Jane Fonda wrote in her autobiography that James Franciscus took her virginity.

[quote]Richard Chamberlain's attempt in the notorious flop musical of Breakfast at Tiffany's scared him away.

Hardly, r388.

The thing I remember about The Andy Griffith Show was that the town square area had no trees at all.

It being a backlot and all…

[quote]The media at the time fueled the competition between Richard Chamberlain and Vince Edwards.

And it was started by a woman!!!

R388, I was too young at the time to watch either show. My parents watched both. They liked Kildare but they LOVED Casey. It was their favorite show. The couple of times I was allowed to sit up to watch, it felt glamorous to little 8-year-old gayling me.

Anyway, I would have been Team Casey (I have a type), but I prefer even Team Kildare (or Team Novak, R390) to Team Beatles. "The Sixties" - not the actual 10-year span, but the aesthetic - ruined a lot of things, but men's looks would be near the top of the list for me.

[qoute]Anyway, I would have been Team Casey (I have a type), but I prefer even Team Kildare (or Team Novak, [R390]) to Team Beatles. "

As a kid I loathed seeing the cool Kennedy-Era men's clothing and hair style give way to the styles popular in the latter half of the decade.

[quote]Anyway, I would have been Team Casey (I have a type), but I prefer even Team Kildare (or Team Novak, [[R390]]) to Team Beatles. "

As a kid I loathed seeing the cool Kennedy-Era men's clothing and hair style give way to the styles popular in the latter half of the decade.

I'm telling you, r399, I didn't get a lot of wear out of my Nehru jacket.

When I was in the 7th grade and Kildare and Casey premiered on TV (yes, I'm ancient), practically every girl in my class had a white cotton high-collared doctor smock that was fashioned as a teen blouse that they'd wear to school every day. IIRC most of the girls preferred Kildare but I was Casey all the way. I seem to remember Vince Edwards often unbuttoning the top buttons of his smock to show some swarthy chest hair but that may have just been in my wet dreams.

I don't know why it took network execs until 1961 to figure out that there were huge audiences clamoring for an hour-long drama series set in a metropolitan hospital starring a handsome hunk discovery paired with a familiar character actor/mentor figure.

Those two shows were quickly followed by a series called The Nurses starring tough Shirl Conway as the head nurse and Zina Bethune as the ingenue nurse-in-training. Without a signature hunk, it sputtered along and eventually became The Doctors and the Nurses, but I'd stopped watching and can't remember who the cast additions were.

By 1963, I was on to Mr. Novak, about a fledgling high school teacher, mentored by an older principal, played respectively by James Franciscus and Dean Jagger. Crazy for Franciscus but I don't remember the series ever having quite the cultural impact or immense popularity of Dr. Kildare and Ben Casey. And Franciscus never appeared on WML.

Shirl Conway/MAME!

Shirl Conway on the legitimate stage...

"Plain and Fancy" was co-produced by Dorothy's husband.

Vince Edwards, shirtless and showing VPL.

Penis head? Headless with penis….

Vince Edwards did nude "physique" modeling when he was younger.

Vince will walk alone.

Liza & Vince

^ Bless her heart.

r394, sadly, by the time Richard Chamberlain starred in those Broadway revivals, Vince Edwards was long dead and unable to tread any boards, on Broadway or elsewhere.

Andre Kostelanetz

R402, Mr Novak was only on for two seasons, from 1963 to 1965. Casey and Kildare were both on for five seasons, from 1961 to 1966. That would be one reason they had more cultural impact. The other would be that medical shows lend themselves so well to high drama and melodrama. I haven’t seen Dr Kildare in decades, but Ben Casey episodes were often dark and sad, packing a big emotional punch. Because Ben was a neurosurgeon, they often dealt with cancer, which was not a common topic on TV in those days.

Since we’re in the neighborhood, here’s the episode where Richard Chamberlain appeared with Raymond Massey, who played Kildare’s boss, Dr. Gillespie.

[quote] sadly, by the time Richard Chamberlain starred in those Broadway revivals, Vince Edwards was long dead and unable to tread any boards, on Broadway or elsewhere.

He didn't die until 1996.

Dr Kildare was in color and Ben Casey was in b/w.....

R417, “Dr. Kildare” ran for five(5) seasons. Only the fifth season was in color.

Based on R410 I was going to claim that Vince is a better singer than an actor but he hits a few bum notes.

The Ritz Brothers

R420, Their crackers are the best.

Dorothy, Rock and Tallulah at the premiere of “Pillow Talk” in 1959.

And Gloria Swanson joined them.

I was going to say, what a shame Rock never appeared as the MG on WML but then remembered we addressed that 4 threads ago. At least I think we did.

r424...we did.

Monty Clift as a mystery guest in 1963.

His voice is distinctive even just mmm-ing yes and no.

here's the whole show.

Andy Robustelli, the doll importer, has a sexy ugly thing going on.

I'd bet with modern grooming and health habits Andy would be very hot today.

By that you mean plucked eyebrows and shaved pubes and bleached hole?

Asking for John Daly’s ghost.

Dorothy's birthday, and Audie Murphy.

It's funny, I've been a huge fan of these WML clips since they first appeared on youtube 20 or so years ago and have watched them all many times. But I've finally become a bit bored and impatient with the earlier years, say to about 1957.

I hate the walk of shame to the panel, I hate the free guesses, I hate Hal Block and kinda hate Fred Allen. The show for me didn't really get going until Fred died. Of course, there are exceptions.

R432 reveals Arlene wears false teeth.

This may be heresy on DL, but I much prefer the network run of To Tell the Truth.

Heretic!

Robert Q Lewis as MG.

What a wonderful moment when the audience tells Arlene she has guessed the motorcycle cop right.

I love Arlene's singular ear bob and matching barrette. I'm not sure that's a style that ever caught on but then, I guess it would require an asymmetrical hairdo to work effectively.

Arlene Francis for S&H Green Stamps!

Mr. C introduces her at 41:00

at home with the Gabels.

Lily Pons.

And a plug for Arlene's album.

The hypnotist is handsome.

OMG, that hypnotist fellow Steve Ellis at the end of r442 was movie star gorgeous! I wish he'd appeared earlier before they ran out of time.

I can only think Arlene must have thought he was gay and thus restrained her flirting.

R442 is the first time I have seen someone guess right in the wild guesses for the Slot Machine Repairman.

I believe this is Steve Ellis, the former hypnotist. He became an author on paranormal and later a probate referee. If he's still alive he has to be around 90.

Wow! Great find, r447. And with a wife and 3 children perhaps he was straight after all.

Jolie Gabor

The whole show.

Anthony Perkins #2

In his memoir “Dropped Names”, Frank Langella writes of Tony Perkins visiting him in his Lincoln Center dressing room in 1968.

While chatting, Frank mentioned that people told him he looked like a younger Tony Perkins. Tony said he didn’t see the resemblance and then asked Frank “How big is your cock?”.

For the rest of the visit, Tony was making it clear that he would like to have sex with Frank, but it didn’t happen.

r448 Based on his favorite movies and his choice of music, I'd say that was questionable.

And while he might like Hemingway, he can't spell it.

Zsa Zsa is a sturdy gal. Must be all that goulash.

R453 Gee, my dad listened to Sinatra, Dick Haymes, Crosby, and loved the listen to Fiddler On the Roof. Guess he was a homo.

We need some new clips of sexy MGs from the 50s and 60s if we're to keep this thread going!

Zsa Zsa #1

We are told Dorothy has been selected as one of America's best dressed women. But they must have decided that before seeing her ice cream dress here.

[quote]Gee, my dad listened to Sinatra, Dick Haymes, Crosby, and loved the listen to Fiddler On the Roof. Guess he was a homo.

The rest of us have known for quite some time.

When I heard my father was in the South Pacific theater I thought he had been a chorus boy.

Anthony Perkins #3 as panelist.

Sinatra, Crosby, Rodgers and Hammerstein--all flaming queens.

R461, Gary Cooper greeting Tony Perkins wasn’t very cordial, considering they made “Friendly Persuasion” together.

[quote]Gary Cooper greeting Tony Perkins wasn’t very cordial, considering they made “Friendly Persuasion” together.

R463 Look again. Very cordial.

Sorry, R464, that wasn’t my idea of a warm greeting between former co-stars.

Anthony Perkins#4 as panelist.

R465 Cooper takes Tony's hand in both of his, does some kind of friendly gesture and Tony smiles, I don't know what you're seeing.

I would guess the Arkansas Justice of the Peace in R466 did her own hair and made her dress. O boy.

Technically they worked together but Cooper was the star of Friendly Persuasion and Perkins was a below-the-title supporting actor. Not that would matter in a greeting.

R469, They played father and son and Tony was Oscar nominated.

R467, I saw a very tepid greeting between two former co-stars.

Compare it to Hayley Mills greeting Joanna Barnes, both having co-starred in “The Parent Trap”.

So, r471, Gary wasn't girly enough for you?

No, but I imagine you are, R472.

[quote]No, but I imagine you are, [R472].

If you *only* knew, r473...giggle.

In R451 feel sorry for the dumpy female air force sergeant having to follow the Swedish correspondent in the skintight dress.

By the last season of the original WML run, would you say that it had become difficult to get A list stars to appear as MGs?

R476, Steve McQueen, Raquel Welch, Sean Connery, Judy Garland, etc. all appeared in 1967.

R470 t Cooper was the star of Friendly Persuasion and Perkins was a below-the-title supporting actor.

So, r478?

R479 Meaning, what R470 said doesn't alter what I originally said.

Anyway, I have to agree to disagree about the "greeting" which seemed friendly--I think you (if it was you) are trying to read some malice or indifference into Cooper's attitude that I don't see, for your own reasons. What else was Coop supposed to do? He smiled, clasped Tony's hand in both of his for a second, body language was relaxed and casual.

R478 is obviously a fucking moron and I doubt if she has seen “Friendly Persuasion”.

Cooper and Perkins not only played father and son, they had numerous scenes together.

Stop embarrassing yourself, R480.

R480, The trailer for “Friendly Persuasion” gave Perkins equal “starring” billing to Cooper and McGuire.

Eva Gabor

Zsa Zsa #2

R481 I've seen Friendly Persuasion numerous times. That's how I know Cooper is billed solely above the title. The moron is the person who called them "co-stars".. I also happen to know (have read) Cooper was not that fond of Tony on set asking him about what Hollywood was like in "the old days." It was the first time Cooper had played a dad of older kids and he was self-conscious about getting older.

At any rate, as I said, the billing is not relevant to the point, but Cooper and Perkins were hardly equals in the entertainment world. Cooper was one of the major stars of the time. Like Clark Gable, Humphrey Bogart, and Katharine Hepburn. Tony Perkins was young, a box office sensation for a few years, and a star, always well known--but never as popular or beloved (or payed as well) as Gary Cooper.

Finally, you call me a fucking moron but still haven't described what you feel was dismissive about Cooper's "warmth" towards Perkins (which btw I haven't seen anyone else agree with). You just say vaguely that it wasn't what you thought it would or should be.

Oh, look!, R486.

Anthony Perkins was billed ABOVE the title, along with Gary Cooper.

The online copy of the film I watched has Gary Cooper credited alone above the title. Anthony is billed 3rd below the title.

Anthony Perkins #5 as panelist.

With Dorothy as the MG. It's moving to hear how the audience seems to love her.

Maybe over the title but on the same line as Marjorie Main hardly ranks as top-drawer.

Some of you have a very strange notion of friendships and relationships on film sets. As actors (and crew) move from film to film and set to set they understand that the closeness and intimacy is very fleeting.

Dorothy was sooooooo nervous as the MG, all the way until she left the stage.

You'd be nervous too if Debbie Reynolds was trying to look up your dress.

Debbie seemed to know it was Dorothy before the round started.

R492, Not true at all, especially in the days of the studio system, where the same crews were used repeatedly.

Countless friendships and relationships,, both platonic and romantic, were formed while making movies, some even resulting in marriages.

Gary's relationship with Tony was strained after Gary told him he could not show his legendary endowment since he had said the same to Robert Middleton.

R497, Tony Perkins was no slouch when it came to endowments, according to multiple sources.

R487 Re-lease poster. Psycho was released in 1960, FP in 1956.

William Wyler actually had his heart set on casting Gary Cooper and Katharine Hepburn in Friendly Persuasion, but I forget why Hepburn couldn't or didn't choose to do it, He considered several other actresses, even testing a couple (Maureen O'Hara, Eleanor Parker). Dorothy McGuire eventually got the part, though Cooper was not keen on her. She didn't receive billing over the title with him. Later though he admitted he was wrong about her.

I don't know if Cooper liked Perkins but he was fond of Tab Hunter (who at the time I think was Tony's ex) on They Came To Cordura.

Phot of Cooper and his wife, Jimmy and Gloria Stewart, and Maria Cooper with (her date) Tony.

*photo

r496, the great majority of those marriages that were sparked by on set affairs didn't last long and neither did a lot of those friendships. Though, of course, some did.

Gary Cooper began making films in the late 1920s and 30 some years later, Tony Perkins was just a pleasant young fellow with whom he spent a couple of months making another film. Besides which, I think his parting greeting to Tony on WML was perfectly respectable.

Let's say you're someone like a builder who comes into contact with people for a couple of months, then goes on to the next job. How many of those people do you become close to, or vice-versa? That's what being an actor can be like.

R505, The Hollywood/movie industry is a very tight knit group, especially years ago.

Actors found themselves working with many of the same people in film after film. Some directors even had “stock companies” of actors they cast repeatedly.

Socially, they would also see each other often, either at parties or industry events such as awards shows.

And I still don't see anything Cooper did in greeting Tony that wasn't warm or friendly...

R507, Check out how warmly Horst Buchholz greeted former “One, Two, Three” co-star Arlene Francis @ 22:15.

Horst Bucholtz was such a beautiful man in his prime.

Horst was bi-leaning-to-gay, and I could cry when I think of all the guys who must've had him (and I wasn't one of them)...

Anthony Perkins #6

The R508 episode has a very funny exchange though the audience doesn't laugh. When Dorothy is trying to guess the mushroom picker she asks, "What have I just found out? and Martin comments, "That you're going to get a no."

R508 That's nice. They're of the opposite sex. He's younger than her. Did you expect Gary Cooper to kiss Anthony Perkins on both cheeks?

I would've wanted Horst Bucholz to greet me with surprise anal.

Anthony Perkins #7 as panelist

Zsa Zsa #4

Looks like "What's My Line?" loved Tony Perkins.

And Zsa Zsa!

Zsa Zsa's behavior in R516 is bizarre and it looks like she is wearing a Korean wig.

[quote]Did you expect Gary Cooper to kiss Anthony Perkins on both cheeks?

All four would have been nice, r513.

Mystery Guest Mamie Van Doren. Sorry if this has already been posted.

Mamie is still with us. The year here is 1957. I wonder if that makes her the earliest Mystery Guest still alive.

Also of note: John Daly mentions her husband Ray Anthony. He's also still with us. Born in 1922.

R521, Robert Wagner beat Mamie by one month.

Thanks R522

Never seen this show.

Poof! There goes Dorothy Kilgallen!

If Jeannie was a boy.

Robert Wagner is hilarious (and adorable) in his MG appearance. He never got a chance to be that funny as a young actor.

r526...

He was certainly hilarious in bed!

Not very hilarious on water, R529.

Jeannie Carson is still around. 98 years old.

When did Johnny transition?

For a number of years in the 1980s/90s, Jeannie Carson and her husband actor Biff McGuire lived in Seattle and would often act in plays at Seattle Rep. I remember seeing Biff as Big Daddy and Jeannie as Ariel.

[quote]I remember seeing Biff as Big Daddy and Jeannie as Ariel.

What were they starring in-- "Little Mermaid on a Hot Tin Roof?"

Stan Musial

and Steve Allen.

The honey salesman is a honey.

Edie Adams.

Edie reminds me a little of Marilyn Monroe.

Edie was famous for her MM impersonations on hubby Ernie Kovacs' TV shows.

It's fun to imagine that hot honey salesman with today's better grooming products. He had very wide shoulders.

Edie is utterly adorable in that clip! What a beauty! What a talent.

This must have been after she was widowed by Ernie Kovacs as he had often appeared on the panel but wasn't mentioned by anyone after her identity was revealed. I really wish I could have seen her perform in RAIN in Warren, Ohio that summer of '63.

After Monroes's death Edie told her make-up man to give her the full Marylin.

R541, Kovacs died in a car crash in LA on January 13, 1962. I enjoyed his appearances on WML despite the chaos he often created.

Ernie and Edie.

I thought it odd that JCD didn't say to Edie something along the lines of: "We all just want to offer you our condolences on the recent passing of our dear friend Ernie who often joined us as a panelist on our show."

I don't mean this to sound like a criticism of JCD but more as an observation based on watching him all those years.

Edie #2

Jane Russell was a tall gal.

Full-figured! In the best sense.

Full-figured, indeed.

Jane Russell was 5' 7" but in those days that was a tall woman.

"The two and only Jane Russell"

Was Jane's husband a star football player or just a player?

As I recall, R552, Bob Waterfield, Mr. Jane Russell, was the star quarterback of the LA Rams.

Jane replaced Elaine Stritch in Company on Broadway in 1971.

“Two months after the divorce from Waterfield, Russell married actor Roger Barrett who died of a heart attack only two months later in November 1968.“

Wasn't Jane Russell once married to a movie stunt man who had an awful on set accident?

R556, Yvonne De Carlo

Jane Russell was once married to Yvonne De Carlo?

Yvonne was married to stuntman Bob Morgan.

Morgan was seriously injured and almost died while performing a stunt in the film How the West Was Won (1962). Toward the end of the film, there is a gunfight on a moving train between the marshal and a gang of train robbers. Doubling for the actor who played the marshal, Morgan was told to hold on to a log and sway between two flatcars, one of them carrying several tons of timber. The chains holding the logs together snapped, and Morgan was crushed by the falling logs. He was so badly hurt it took him five years to recover to the point where he was able to move by himself and walk unaided.

The racehorse buyer and seller in R546 is as big as a horse.

And she didn't know how they keep score! I hate when that happens.

I always wondered if they have a dress rehearsal with the guests. I have to laugh when someone comes out and has to be directed to the blackboard to sign in.

R562, at some point, they must have started giving instructions to contestants and guests before the show because JCD stops asking them if they know how the score is kept, but no one seems puzzled or uncertain about it It would be an easy thing to do to avoid that "do you know how we keep score" delay.

Jane Russell #2

R563, I think of that "useless" chat as a simple icebreaker. Other than the mystery guests, those people weren't accustomed to being on television. Most were incredibly nervous. One of John Daly's strengths was his ability to calm folks down and help them through the "ordeal" of appearing on live TV. I don't think he ever got enough credit for that.

And the poor lady contestants were cursed with the questions: Will they whistle for me? What if they don't whistle for me? Nerve wracking!

The weird and particularly distasteful aspect of those whistles and cat calls was the way they'd often start very gradually and almost hesitatingly, as if some letch thought he could get away with them. I always wondered if it was Johnny Olsen who'd start them. It's cringe worthy now but I always thought as a kid watching WML it was cringe worthy back then.

R567 I don't see anything wrong with them, in that context.

[quote]as if some letch thought he could get away with them

The wolf-whistles are playful. They are good natured. They are of the era.

I befriended a former contestant some 40 years after her mid-60s appearance. She made some comment about how attractive she was then. I didn't have the heart to offer a dissenting view.

Please

Kill

This

Ungodly

Irrelevant

Well, did they like Dorothy Kilgallen or not?

Still to be determined, R576.

We will deal with that issue in Part 7.

What if they DID like her and OP has been misguided all these years?

Also, these posts have been going on for so long… do we know if OP is still alive?

Six consecutive threads can take a toll on an old gal.

OP died not long after Dorothy was taken from us.

I love the way Dorothy enters with her little curtsey. I've been trying to copy it for when I enter a crowded room.

I hear you, R582. I now have a fixation for introducing the person on my left...

Eddie Cantor

FE is Frances.

582 As long as the room isn't the biker bar out on the highway.

It appears Eddie Cantor's first appearance in 1952 is lost.

R587, Eddie Cantor had a rather lengthy affair with Jacqueline Susann.

No wonder she was so crabby.

Carol Morris, Miss Universe 1956

Sugar Ray Robinson

Richard J. Daley

r590, that must have been a tough week to find celebs.

The June Taylor Dancers and William Holden

Carol Morris' painted eyebrows are distracting me.

Wiki

The mosquito counter's jacket is rather candy-store.

Haha Arlene comments on the jacket.

Kill

This thread now!