Hamas executed one of its own leaders for being gay

waiting for Queers for Palestine to chime in..

Crickets?

We're not taking your bait. Go back to the Underwhelmed thread.

R1, as opposed to Log Cabin Republicans like you who make excuses for people like Mike Johnson

Log Cabin assholes and Queers for Palestine assholes are two dumbest subset of gay groups by miles and miles and miles.

I can't stand both.

Log cabin are mostly wealthy conservative gays who are well adapted in Republican milieu and share most their values. This queer for Palestine are just stupid kids who don't want to miss out the latest fashion which is Palestine. It is not that I don't oppose the killing of people in Gaza, I do, it is just that I don't appreciate trendy hysteria.

Fake news!

FFS OP, either copy and paste the text or post an archive link if you want people to read the article put up for discussion.

It's stupid to expect us all to log in - even for free - or create our own archive link.

Do better!

Files found by Israel OP? Well they always tell the absolute truth.

Just Jewish propaganda R8

Jews will say anything to try to defend Israel

Log cabinettes are degenerates who aren’t necessarily wealthy ( or they’d be Democrats since they are better for the economy and always have been), no, they’re racist contrarians.

R3 is a useful fool.

OP, how dare you say the truth and disturb the Phaktrix!

Oh well, that justifies killing thousands of civilians.

so much deflection in this thread.

Hamas documents that Israel recently found in Gaza reveal the details behind the execution of a senior official in the organization because he was believed to be gay.

"I went through torture that no one has gone through in Palestine, not by the Palestinian Authority, not even at the hands of the Jews, but by Hamas internal security," Mahmoud Ishtiwi wrote before his execution in February 2016.

His death caused an uproar in Gaza and even disagreements within Hamas' leadership. The group has tried to silence speculation surrounding Ishtiwi's death for years. In the past few weeks, an Israel Defense Forces operation in the southern Gaza city of Khan Yunis uncovered the group's file on Ishtiwi inside a Hamas tunnel. The file includes records of Ishtiwi's interrogations and torture, notes he sent and received, and a diary he kept during his detention. The documents show that after Ishtiwi's death, Hamas continued to persecute and torture other men accused of gay sex.

Hamas first claimed Ishtiwi was gay for the first time in 2015. Then 33 years old, Ishtiwi was the commander of Hamas' Zeitoun battalion – one of the strongest in the group's military wing. He was married to two women, and his rank was equivalent to that of a brigadier general in the IDF (the third highest rank). Ishtiwi was also a member of an affluent, prominent family with close ties to the Hamas leadership.

However, Hamas' internal security received information that Ishtiwi was sexually involved with his male neighbor and working with Israel. Gay Palestinians are often suspected of being Israeli collaborators, in part because of an IDF practice that involved identifying them and pressuring them to provide intelligence lest they be exposed.

Two additional allegations were attributed to Ishtiwi: embezzlement of funds belonging to Hamas' military wing (which he allegedly used to pay hush money to avoid being revealed as gay) and prostituting his wife. Hamas also claimed that he used to arrive at social gatherings with his wife, where the two would have sex with several guests.

In his interrogations, according to the files, Ishtiwi admitted to sexual relations with his male neighbor, embezzling Hamas money, and stealing weapons. The files also say that Ishtiwi admitted to cooperating with Israel, but later state that it was a false confession given following severe torture.

According to the files, Ishtiwi said the tunnels for which he was responsible weren't damaged during the Israel-Gaza war of 2014 and that the organization's vital objectives had been preserved throughout the fighting.

In the investigations into his alleged collaboration with Israel, Ishtiwi was brought before the Hamas leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar. Sinwar told him that if he were brought before an Islamic religious court, his sentence would be an execution. On the other hand, Sinwar said, if Ishtiwi confessed to "security" offenses and collaboration with Israel, Sinwar would see to his safety.

Sinwar ultimately broke his promise, and Ishtiwi was executed, even though he was acquitted of collaboration with Israel. Before his execution, Ishtiwi also met another senior Hamas officer, Abu Khaled, aka Mohammed Deif, the commander of Hamas' military wing. Deif said that Ishtiwi had lied during his interrogations. Here, too, the documents describe cruel treatment of Ishtiwi, saying that Deif hit him in the face in the presence of other top Hamas members

The documents collected by IDF soldiers also show that following Ishtiwi's execution, Hamas continued to locate, dismiss, interrogate, and torture any member thought to be gay. A secret internal Hamas document from December 2019 discusses the discovery of "un-Islamic" activity by members, including drug use, prohibited relations with young women, theft, and pedophilia.

The file suggests that the organization feared anyone engaging in such activities was exposed to blackmail by Israeli security forces. But it seems that the most severe measures were taken against gay men, who were automatically marked as collaborators with Israel – a capital crime punishable by death.

The papers cite examples from 2018, when five Hamas members were arrested and interrogated for "committing the abomination of lying with a man, having illegal relations by a man with young women, taking sleeping pills, watching pornographic films, illegal relations with a young woman online, relations with young children, adultery, lying with a man, and harassment." They also mention "rebellious" members who launched missiles without obtaining authorization from senior Hamas officers. The extent of Ishtiwi's torture is indicated by the documents. One of them is a rough handwritten diary from his time in detention. Intelligence officers who examined the document believe that Ishtiwi decided to write it when he realized that he would not leave his interrogation alive. The diary describes how "angels of destruction" had led him to an open grave and told him, "This is your grave. You will be covered with concrete up to your mouth." Ishtiwi added that his interrogators told him, "This isn't the first time we've done this."

In the diary, Ishtiwi describes how he begged for his life several times, writing that he asked for a Quran to swear on it before his interrogators. He wrote that he wanted to quote the Quran to prove that his torture contravened Islam. "Allah forbids killing a person unjustly," he wrote. He blamed senior Hamas officials for his situation. "You, [Haniyeh] are the most responsible for this," he wrote. "I ask you to follow the matter in an independent committee on behalf of the [Al-Qassam] Brigades."

[quote]Gay Palestinians are often suspected of being Israeli collaborators, in part because of an IDF practice that involved identifying them and pressuring them to provide intelligence lest they be exposed.

This is why gays should be on nobody's side but our own.

The documents further say that Ishtiwi tried to escape during one interrogation but then realized he was being held in a tunnel. He was caught by guards and then sent to Khan Yunis by Mohammed Sinwar, Yahya Sinwar's brother and right-hand man. "Mohammed Sinwar is a monster, the bad cop," Ishtiwi wrote. "Yahya Sinwar is the warm and embracing one, the good cop. [Former senior military wing member Ahmed Ghandour] is in between, sometimes like this and sometimes like that."

Ishtiwi later described being whipped by senior Hamas officers, including Raad Saad, chief of Hamas operations, and Mohammed Sinwar. "They whipped me 400-500 times and my body became different colors," Ishtiwi wrote. "There was blood in my urine and the whipping lasted over four hours straight until I lost consciousness, and they finally sent me to the hospital and ordered me to confess to everything."

Ishtiwi also wrote, "Often, four men would stand around me while I was suspended in the air, and would swing me right and left, forward and backward, for hours. I was tied for an average of no less than 20 hours and sometimes more than 24 hours, and I received hundreds of lashes." He continued, "I was beaten, tied, stripped of my skin, humiliated, spat on, had a bag placed over my head, all this without them having even a shred of evidence." Ishtiwi described life in the detention cell in Khan Yunis. "The real atmosphere is dread, fear and being threatened by everyone, including the guards. My whole body has been taken over by fear. I know that I am lying to the head of the pyramid, and I know that Mohammed Sinward is known for his cruelty and that he almost buried me in Al-Shati in Gaza City."

The minutes of a meeting between Ishtiwi and his family during a visit state that he told them he had been severely tortured for 1,200 hours and that he appeared hurt and beaten all over.

Throughout Ishtiwi's detention, his family waged an extraordinarily determined struggle against Hamas through an organization calling itself "The martyred Islamic warrior Mahmoud Ishtiwi." Its activity included conversations with Hamas commanders in an attempt to clarify matters, and its members wrote letters protesting his arrest. Unusually, the protest group was also active on social media. In one rare case, shortly after his arrest, relatives held a limited demonstration outside a police station in Gaza. But Hamas silenced the conversation and arrested some relatives, threatening that they must avoid any announcement or statement critical of the organization and its leaders.

Nonetheless, the discovered documents show that Hamas leaders were divided about the affair. On one side was Khaled Meshal, then head of the Hamas political bureau, who sought to de-escalate the matter. On the other side was Yahya Sinwar and his associates, who wanted to sentence Ishtiwi to the most severe penalties.

Ishtiwi's family even tried to contact Sinwar personally with a request to release him and clear his name. "Allah does not like the public mention of evil except by one who has been wronged, and ever is Allah hearing and knowing, Ishtiwi's brother, Hasem, wrote, quoting the Quran, in his letter to Sinwar, which was found among the documents.

He added, "Any doubt should be interpreted in favor of the accused. The burden of proof is placed wholly on the prosecutor. It is not the duty of the accused to prove his innocence, and the accused should not be forced to submit evidence that would incriminate him in any way. In particular, this should not be done by coercion, which often may be expressed in physical and mental torture."

The letter failed to convince Sinwar, and in April 2015, he sent a note to Ishtiwi's cell saying, "Believe me, you will speak the truth only when the concrete reaches your mouth." The threat was effective: shortly thereafter, Ishtiwi agreed to confess.

Ishtiwi's confession, which was also found in the tunnel, was written by his interrogators and states that the suspect had sexual relations with a neighbor, Saad, over many years. The interrogators claimed that Ishtiwi had initiated the relationship and seduced his neighbor. They claimed he would bribe the neighbor with benefits to pursue their sexual relationship. The interrogators added that the meetings were held in Ishtiwi's home, in rented apartments, and in an Al-Qassam Brigades jeep.

"When Saad began seeking relations with women, Ishtiwi persuaded his wife to join him in their sexual relations," states the interrogation summary. "She strongly objected, but ultimately became addicted to the group sex sessions and watching pornographic films, and even put on makeup and danced before the two men." The summary continues, "Ishtiwi confessed to stealing and selling weapons from the Al-Qassam Brigades, including the personal firearm of [former Hamas military chief of staff] Ahmed Al-Jabari."

Ishtiwi told his family that the allegations were false and that his confession had been coerced. In a note passed to relatives during a visit, he wrote, "My brother Hasem, I was severely tortured to the point that they almost killed me. I therefore confessed lies to them and admitted to them things that I have never done. My brother, I am innocent."

Ultimately, following his confession and in violation of Sinwar's promise, Ishtiwi was brought before a religious court. The council sentenced him to death after finding him guilty of "sodomy." The sentence read, in part, "Just as prostitution is considered an abomination and evil in every way, lying with a man should be judged at least the same as prostitution; in other words, death by stoning, especially when committed by someone in a sensitive position in the leadership of the Al-Qassam Brigades."

In February 2016, Hamas said in a short announcement that Mahmoud Ishtiwi had been executed pursuant to a verdict by the religious court of the Al-Qassam Brigades. His crime was declared to be serious "moral offenses to which he confessed."

In his will, included among the documents, Ishtiwi asked that his home be converted into a place of worship. "Praise be to Allah that I will die as a slave, so that I will have a double and redoubled atonement before my Lord", he wrote. "I will gather all those who abused me before my Lord," mentioning, among others, Yahya and Mohammed Sinwar and Raad Saad. He concluded by writing, "I accept Allah's sentence, and do not tell more lies about me beyond that. Enough! Enough! Enough!"

Being pro Palestine does not necessarily mean you are pro HAMAS. I am very sympathetic to the Palestinian people. HAMAS is a terrorist organization that should be wiped from the face of the earth. Those Palestinians who side with HAMAS, well I don't care about them. They get what they get. But, there are plenty of Palestinians who just want to live their lives in peace.

He had a nice gun but couldn’t live forever.

The same was said about the Germans during the Nazis reign R24.

And there were Germans who were smart enough to know what Hitler was doing and worked to help many Jews escape capture. Not all Germans during WWII were evil NAZI sympathizers.

[quote] Being pro Palestine does not necessarily mean you are pro HAMAS.

Neat mind trick, there butch.

Israel is attempting to destroy Hamas, not the civilians Hamas hides behind. It’s a death cult and right now, if you are anti-Israel you are in favor of Hamas’s continued control of the people of Gaza.

Ask yourself why.

R16 keep posting propaganda, it doesn’t deflect from the mass killings that Israel is carrying out right now

Israel is fighting a war it didn’t want. Killing civilians is what Hamas wants, not Israel.

People are so blinded by their hate they can’t see straight. If not engaging intentionally in Hamas propaganda which is Hamas’s biggest weapon. Idiots.

^^^ Fancy Bibi having the time to post at DL.

Do you know why, on Oct 7, HAMAS captured and tortured Israeli females by driving nails into their groins, raping them, and then shooting them in the vagina? Clearly, a symbolic killing of the entire race as Judaism is passed through the mother alone.

Upon entering heaven was he given 72 anal virgins?

Virgins are for martyrs.

And now you know

Find a better source, OP.

How did Arafat escape being killed for his homosexuality? It was well known he was gay; he liked blonde surfer types. Yet he was exalted by the Palestinians and eventually took a wife late in life to give the impression he liked pussy. Even though he died of AIDS, he was given a hero's burial.

It was different time R37 and PLO was completely different thing than Hamas. In these days decent people supported Palestinians and it meant something because you risked being accused of being antisemite, it was manipulative slur like "racist" is today. Today real antisemites support Palestine, they gained their heart when thdy raped and tortured Jewish women.

I hate it when people act like no gays should be against the collective punishment of Gazans purely because Hamas would kill gay people given half the chance.

Are we meant to delight in the deaths of all Gazans (including innocent children) just because the twats that rule them are homophobic?

"An uproar in Gaza....."

How could they tell?

[quote] Being pro Palestine does not necessarily mean you are pro HAMAS.

That like saying you are pro-Trump, but not pro-MAGA. The two are inseparable and you know it.

I get the collective punishment argument except for the fact that Gazans elected HAMAS to rule them, Gazans support HAMAS (as evidenced by the public utter joy they displayed upon seeing Israeli women dragged, bleeding from their vaginas, through the streets before torturing them to death). You also must note that Gazans have not turned a single member of HAMAS over to IDF forces supporting the notion that they do not disagree with what HAMAS did and is doing.

Bottom line, if Gazans want the war to come to an end, it is in their hands. Turn over the hostages and their captors to face justice. Rip out HAMAS root and branch.

R41 Stupid take. It's entirely possible to be in favour of the Palestinian people having land in the middle east while condemning Hamas' actions. And -- to use your words -- you know it.

[quote] Are we meant to delight in the deaths of all Gazans (including innocent children) just because the twats that rule them are homophobic?

That you push the lie that there is an attempt underway to kill all Gazans does mean that we can immediately and appropriately toss anything you say on the subject of Palestine into the garbage.

Except that's not how they see it, F43; the Palestinian people are pro-HAMAS. And yes, you know it.

The Palestinians HAD land. Israel forced all settlers out of Gaza, destroying synagogues and unearthing graves even though Gaza had a long Jewish tradition. Gaza responded by electing Hamas, which bombed Israel constantly, built tunnels with aid money while their people starved, and made their leaders rich to the tune of $11 billion (cozily located outside of Gaza and Palestine). Had Palestinians chosen to educate their people and build a society rather than seethe at Israelis and blow themselves up, their homes would not be rubble.

R45 Not all of them. Some may be, but not all. Also, some of those who appear to be supportive do it out of fear. Better to survive by pretending to support them than die by being openly against them.

But weirdos like you think any of that justifies the killing of innocent children who don't even know what Hamas are.

I wonder if the leaders of HAMAS are doing the same as the leaders of Al Quaida and ISIS did, and keeps their hard line troops hopped up on meth and who knows what other narcotics. That's the only way they can get them to commit the heinous acts they do. That's not any reason to forgive them, but that's what these terrorist groups have to resort to.

File this one along with the beheaded babies and the fake rapes on October 7th.

Israel has one of the best and most adept Ministry of Propaganda on earth.

No one doubts that Islam is a homophobic religion, just like Christianity and Orthodox Judaism.

What that has to do with the right of Palestinians to be compensated for their stolen land and govern their own state, I have no clue.

Israeli bombs in Gaza don't discriminate based on a person's sexuality. Gay Palestinians are dying along with their straight brothers and sisters.

These stories about homophobic Muzzies are such a canard.

When Hamas attacked on 10/7 the ENTIRE population of Israel did not suffer the way the Palestinians are suffering now. Their lives are hanging in the balance and the enormity of their daily suffering is unimaginable. All of our allies have now stopped supplying Israel with weapons and the US must follow suit.

R49, your October 7th denialism shows you are as a total piece of shit and all should ignore your bigoted and ignorant opinions. Maybe you'd feel more at home with other antisemites?

[quote]All of our allies have now stopped supplying Israel with weapons and the US must follow suit.

This is not true.

NON-BINARIES WHO WOULD BE KILLED IN GAZA FOR QUEERS FOR HAMA

R19 Agreed but don't tell that to the LGBTQ+'s for Palestine because they just desperately want to be thrown off rooftops.

It’s not “collective punishment.” If Israel could just kill Hamas troops, it would, but they hide behind civilians. Civilian casualties are inevitable in any war, especially an urban war where one sides fighters hides in tunnels built under civilian infrastructure.

The question is do civilian casualties in high numbers outweigh legitimate war aims? People can certainly disagree on this. However, I am convinced that both the Gazans and the Israelis are better off without Hamas.

How many civilians did the US kill in its wars against Sadam Hussein, The Iraqi insurgents, ISIS and the Taliban? Far, far more than Israeli has killed in Gaza. I don’t recall too many “progressives” wringing their hands over that.

So they don't like hamasexuals?

Queers for Palestine! 🇵🇸 🪧 🤡

Israel killed 7 aid workers recently. One was Palestinian, while the rest were from Poland, Australia, North America, and the UK. They worked for the World Central Kitchen (WCK) and its founder has said Israel knew of his staffs' movements at the time of the attack.

Netanyahu's response was: "This happens in wartime".

If the WCK founder is correct it shows Israel is targeting aid and knowingly killing aid workers. Surely it's a war crime?

[quote]However, I am convinced that both the Gazans and the Israelis are better off without Hamas.

That's cold comfort for the relatives of dead Gazans, I would imagine.

US drone strike killed 11 civilians in Afghanistan. Was Biden targeting civilians?

I'm completely bewildered by people who want to view this conflict in terms that are black and white. The world is almost always colored in various shades of gray. Nothing about this conflict is simple and people who try to boil it down to "right and wrong" are simpletons incapable of due diligence and complex thinking.

[quote] Netanyahu's response was: "This happens in wartime".

That was not Netanyahu’s entire response. The Israeli government expressed regret and is conducting an investigation.

[quote] That's cold comfort for the relatives of dead Gazans, I would imagine.

And for the thousand dead Israeli civilians who deaths were celebrated in Gaza.

R55 somehow the progressives started to care about Palestinians after they tortured, raped and massacred more than 1000 Jewish civilians.

As you have mentioned they never gived a shit about civilians killed in Middle east wars that Bush and Obama's troops got killed (particularly Obama).

[quote]Maybe you'd feel more at home with other antisemites?

r51 I feel at home with my Jewish friends who believe the bombing of Gaza is an excessive over reaction, revenge rather than tactical, and will do nothing to destroy Hamas. This is only sending them more young recruits. It's a serious blunder on the part of Israel's far right wing Likud Party. Many if not most Jewish Americans oppose what Israel is doing now in Gaza.

And I feel at home here on DL where most posters support the people of Gaza.

You openly deny the killing and raping of women on October 7th, R65. You are no better than Nazi filth who deny the Holocaust.

And we know you have no Jewish friends or friends at all.

[quote]Many if not most Jewish Americans oppose what Israel is doing now in Gaza.

The majority of Jewish Americans (by every poll I've seen) support Israel in their war with Hamas. Again, keep making up facts and lying.

I live on LA's West Side. It's almost impossible not to have Jewish friends here. 🤣

Religious Jews support the ethnic cleansing in Gaza. Many if not most secular nonreligious Jews oppose this idea that God grants land deeds to anyone, even Ashkenazi immigrants from Europe.

I condemn the killing of Israeli civilians on October 7th. And I condemn the revenge killing of innocent Palestinian civilians in Gaza. I'm consistent. You're a religious nut.

The rape stories are false and have been debunked as Israeli propaganda.

R62 It's still a very cold thing to say, even as part of a response. It's another way of saying "well, shit happens!"

Caveman, you are swimming in the shallow end of the pool. You simply are not even decently informed.

The NYT story was a single account that was debunked, just as the Al Shifa story about a pregnant Gazan woman being raped in front of her family was also debunked last week.

And “revenge”‘killings of innocent Palestinians? Can you provide evidence of that? First that the killings were motivated by revenge and not military objectives, and second that the victims were targeted and innocent.

[quote] And I feel at home here on DL where most posters support the people of Gaza.

Check your meds to see if that’s the cause of your hallucinations. The majority of DLers clearly hate the anti-Israel antisemites. No matter how many times the antisemites post comments siding with the Palestinians, it’s easy to see by checking their reply history that it’s only a small number of people responsible for that anti-Israel propaganda.

So many DLers here having a Sophie's Choice moment.

Anti-Semitism vs their support for Hamas. Judging from a number of comments on this thread, Hamas seem to be winning.

Anyone who brings up Briana Joy Gray as a source is automatically suspect. That cunt is crazy and a fucking radical.

I hate Bibi, he needs to go, but IDGAF enough to sacrifice MY rights HERE for THEIR rights THERE. So many Muslims/Pro-Palestinians are VERY eager to flush our democracy down the drain for a pro-terrorist/virulently anti-gay population half way around the world. No fucking thank you. They can FUCK RIGHT OFF. Let that sink in- they are totally fine with giving us over to authoritarianism when their relatives have been happy to and still support the terrorist HAMAS who ATTACKED a country viciously then when that country attacked back viciously they want to CRY and scream UNCLE while saying they SUPPORT the terrorists attack? As much as I HATE to see the suffering , they can end it real fast but their HATE is too strong so FUCK THEM.

[quote]The U.N. report said it has “reasonable grounds to believe”

r69 Your link gives no definitive proof. We're back where we started and can we believe the Israeli government's findings?

[quote]And “revenge”‘killings of innocent Palestinians? Can you provide evidence of that? First that the killings were motivated by revenge and not military objectives, and second that the victims were targeted and innocent.

r69 This conflict didn't start on Oct 7. Netanyahu has been indicted on fraud and bribery charges and had reason to divert his prosecution. Israel is carpet bombing civilians, not directly targeting Hamas. 40,000 dead Gazans are innocent, not members of Hamas. And Israel told them to leave or face the consequences. Yup, they were targeted.

So you don’t have evidence, just regurgitated talking points and conjecture. Got it.

R74 conflict haven’t started on Oct 7 and many of us have been empathizing with Palestinians for decades.

But it looks like many of "Freepalestinians" have started to care about Palestinians on Oct 7.

r75 Are you daft? Prove it's conjecture, you Zionist bitch. Bottom line, white European colonists are conducting genocide against an indigenous people.

[quote]40,000 dead Gazans are innocent, not members of Hamas.

Whoa, not even Hamas claims that many dead.

They are all animal

R78, the death toll is all over the place. I don't believe anything the gazans say. Still hamas/gazans fucked around and now they are fucking finding out. They could have ended this war, after starting it, at any time by releasing the hostages and surrendering.

R77 girlie, with which troops have Jews conquered Israel? Cavalry? Panzer? Luftwafe?

Or is it that Jews had been coming as immigrants and refugees, who, once they became numerous and stronger took over.

Allegedly some Palestinians have been warning others that uncontrolled immigration can be dangerous in future, but they were dismissed as right wingers and Arab supremacists.

R77 hasn't been to Israel. Does she know about Sephardic Jews and how they were thrown out by the millions from islamic countries in 1948? There are African and Asian Jews too. Their number of Jews in the world is very small, but Jews come in all shapes, sizes, races and ethnicities to varying degrees.

R77 is a brainwashed idiot, he probably has no idea that Arabs conquered this part of world as colonists too (Arabs colonized Middle east and North Africa, they came from Saudi Arabia and gulf countries).

The history of human kind is history of colonization and conquest. Ironically, Jews from Europe came to Israel as immigrants and refugees, not as conquerors.

R77 watches A LOT of TikTok.

God, you sound like a 19 year old who just took his first college philosophy class.

Be honest: How often do you say, "fuck the patriarchy?"

R83, most people don't know a thing about the islamic Conquest or the prophet of peace that ignited it all.

Most people do r85, they simply don't find it the absolutely most relevant part of the current situation.

Most don't and most in the west can't deal with it or the implications. It has everything to do with the current situation from islamic ordering the deaths of gays, nonmuslims and especially Jews to muslims killing their neighbors in western countries.

no, it's like saying anybody can take over the United States right now because there has been a lot of coming and going and fuckery over the last 2000 years. At some point, that just doesn't matter. There were people there in 1948, most were Arabs, and nobody knows what the fuck to do about any of it at this point r87.

R88, there is a lot more to this than just the Israeli / Gaza conflict and history.

R88 nobody implied that you can redeem ancient injustices by committing new ones. But most Israeli Jews were born in Israel, their families have lived there for almost a century and even more (they started migrating there at the end of 19 century), you can not treat them as foreigners or colonizers as these antisemitic woke idiots are suggesting.

Still, what happened to Palestinians should be the lesson what can come out of mass uncontrolled immigration of people from different culture.