Joan Crawford BBC Interview 1957

“A child has weaknesses…”

At least I didn't marry one!

Great interviews,thank you, I read Al was the love of her life and she was devastated when he died. I’m an old guy who dated an older guy who worked for Pepsi back in the day. He said one time Joann stopped at his plant for promotional speeches and pics and while he was excited to see her up close his exact words to me were “she looked meaner than cat shit” RIP Miss Crawford.

I just had to butt in and say Torch Song is the Campiest Movie Of All Time without really trying.

R4 It really is. I think it was technically a B Picture but Joan played it like it was a musical drama of a higher standing. It’s also packed with some great lines. Joan deadpans “your idea of art is the fruit in a slot machine”. When her assistant tells Joan’s character that her mother called, she sighs “how much this time?”

My favorite touch is Duchess the seeing eye dog, pausing at the top of a staircase to growl at Joan, one bitch registering disapproval of another.

JFC. She even chews up the scenery in an interview. What a bizarre woman she was.

R5 How on earth did Marjorie Rambeau get a BSA nomination for "Torch Song"? Rambeau was a very gifted actress, but her role in this picture verges on cameo--and no great scene or speech like, say, Beatrice Straight in "Network."

....

the people in the comments think he's a lecherous straight. they probably think their son and his roommate have a beautiful friendship too.

I love her self-knowledge.

R3- No wonder Mommie Dearest depicts Alfred Steele being upset over Joan's expenditures on the apartment in Manhattan. In todays money Joan spent over $4 million dollars on the renovation and $800,000 on the decorating- ouch. He wasn't that rich.

[quote]they probably think their son and his roommate have a beautiful friendship too.

Don't you DARE make such insinuations about my Sheridan and his friend Tarquin!

Marge Rambeau was in Torch? had no idea,it must have been cameo.

Great interview. That Joan is nothing but class.

R8, Miss Crawford is the least bitter person I know.

Joan called them fags..

R13. She played Joan’s mother.

with Ann Blyth

Did Ann Blyth die too?-I cant take it-WHY WAS I BORN.

R19- She’s alive- 95 years old.

[quote]—B. Davis, Academy Award Winner 1935, 1938 and 1962

I beg your pardon?

Chubby, bitchy and gay.....which one of you bitches did this interview?

R21, that is the point.

Joan played "Trog" as if it were "Phaedra".

That "home movie" at r8 is glorious footage. What a natural beauty she was.

Joan's appearance in the OP's interview and then at r2 are the same year 1956, and yet without the perfect lighting and makeup, there' a world of difference. Also, sleeves!

[quote]Joan played "Trog" as if it were "Phaedra".

Joan played Trog? So she had a dual role?

[quote][R19]- She’s alive- 95 years old.

Clearly Hostess snack cakes are health food.

The most bizarre part is when they bring in Joan's young costar, Heather Sears. And Joan takes hold of the girl's hands and refuses to let go and keeps making these phony loving eyes at her. The girl seems visibly uncomfortable with this. Joan seemed like a vampiress trying to steal her youth.

Miss Blyth really didn't have much of a career after playing one of the biggest sluts in film history.

Yeah, it's funny that Ann Blyth went on to mostly playing simpering sopranos in bad MGM musicals after such a sensational debut in (what one would think was) a career-defining role.

Wouldn't Shirley Temple have been an interesting choice for Veda? It would have changed the trajectory of her career.

BB&B

Joan Two-Faced Woman from Torch Song

She mentions Christina and the twins in this interview as well as Victor Buono and Baby Jane

Jesus, she was always so put together.

Hollywood Royalty.

[quote]Wouldn't Shirley Temple have been an interesting choice for Veda?

The producer Jerry Wald wanted Temple to play Veda, but the director, Michael Curtiz, refused to test her, and asked, sarcastically, "Who do we get to play Mildred's lover? Mickey Rooney?"

After "Mildred Pierce," Curtiz directed Blyth again in the title role in "The Helen Morgan Story" (1957), which had been turned down by both Doris Day and Susan Hayward (and then Curtiz himself turned down Peggy Lee and Patti Page and 30 other contenders). The movie flopped and was Blyth's last feature film. Curtiz was a hothead and stars either loved or loathed him; Blyth thought very highly of him, saying "He was always in my corner," and attended his funeral in 1962.

[quote]What a bizarre woman she was.

There's a name for you ladies, but it isn't used in high society.

The consistent thing in all these interviews is the very studied artifice. Can you imagine anyone today gripping onto their husband or costar the way she does, or mooning deeply into their eyes in such an obviously contrived way? I know it was the style of the day, but she is ALWAYS performing. It's scary in a way.

Joan was such a STAR

She was stunning in that home movie in r8's link. It's funny how she was so beautiful in her youth but by middle age her face got so hard looking. The booze and cigs really did a number on her looks.

R29- This interviewer sounds like another homosexual fawning over Miss Crawford.

or maybe he’s just English.

All that artifice in her interviews is how Joan was brought up in the 1930s studio system, especially at MGM.

What are other female stars from the 30s were doing these live interviews in the 50s, 60s and 70s that we could comp[are her to? Really, only Bette Davis, who just had a very different kind of artifice.

[quote]who just had a very different kind of artifice

Not really...Bette was pretty much a down to earth interviewee.

What about me! R44

R42. Partly it’s the way she presented herself as an older woman. There are a few pictures of her as an older woman with her hair down and minimal makeup where she still looks like a reasonably attractive older woman.

Davis and Hepburn had a genuine sense of humor that sometimes came through in interviews. Crawford had only her robotic smile,

In private Joan could be quite bawdy and raunchy but she never let that show in public.

If you’ve ever watched Joan on Password she’s a lot more down to earth. Still a bit fake but not as much.

The best Crawford interview, at LAX, “heavily medicated”. The actualinteview starts at @ 3:30.

*

Joan was on Password? I can hardly believe it, she was so sincerely sensitive about her lack of education.

JC on Password

Barry Nelson, with JC on Password, is handsomer than I remember him from my youth.

Joan looks great in that Password episode. Leave it to Joan to wear a gown and her nice jewels for the occasion.

Joan Crawford = Tom Cruise. I swear there backgrounds, rise to fame, the obsessive careerism, the self-conscious effortful acting that makes the spectator tired just watching, the ubiquitious air of low-grade desperation. They are one another's spirit animal.

R50, coincidentally I just saw Joan's 1957 appearance on What's My Line last night. For most of the appearance, she is as stiff, uncomfortable and formal as in OP's interview - even more so, in fact. She seems visibly nervous, which may be explained by the fact that, as John Charles Daly commented later on, she never did television, especially live television.

But, anyway, once her identity had been guessed, she relaxed for about 30 seconds. She was joking with panel members and seemed funny and fun. Then JCD started talking about a charity she came on the show to support, the World Adoption International Fund (best not get get too deeply into that!), and the mask came back down. She was, once again, the ill-at-east Great Lady radiating formality and insecurity. What a shame she could not let go of the Grande Dame personality because it is really off-putting.

R45, I was hesitating to bring it up because it's such an obvious contrast, but you're right. Bette Davis is delightful to watch in interviews because she's relaxed and funny. She seems sure of herself and comfortable in her own skin. She actually seems to enjoy airing her opinions. Maybe it's all a facade, but it's an effective and believable one. Joan never seems at ease in interviews and never feels like a real person. The viewer comes away from a BD interview believing - correctly or not - that they know her a little bit; JC is as much of an opaque stranger at the end of an interview as she was when it started.

Some of this is natural personality, but some is surely the result of their different backgrounds. While Davis' family was not rich, she was brought up to be a lady. Joan's childhood circumstances were miserable, impoverished and trashy. Sadly, she never got over that.

[quote]She seems visibly nervous

She had stage fright, r58. It's why she didn't do theater.

Not only did Joan have an abusive and totally dysfunctional childhood, but just think of all the harassment and abuse she got as a young actress in Hollywood. It was enough to damage anyone.

Yes,I'm damaged just watching this.

R40 You rang

R35- I like the fact that the reporter is very respectful to our Joan.

She appeared on What's My Line a Number of times.

You can't get more glamour than r65!

I have that person blocked.

Joan famously accepting the Oscar for Anne Bancroft

There was a vacant lot down the street from my house where as a kid we used to find glass when I was a kid. I brought some home and my dad told me there used to be a bottling place there and that Joan Crawford visited it one time.

That was poetic.

Was Joan Crawford ever on your street?

Joan's classic performance in Queen Bee

It's no secret that I love Joan Crawford. I agree with her biographers who have said that her greatest role was indeed Joan Crawford. To come from where she came from, she played the part of the well-mannered, cultured, glamorous movie star to the hilt, and rarely, if ever, broke character. The woman wrote thank you notes for thank you notes. Perfection!

R73 Did you see R51?

This is all you need to know about Crawford as a person: when she created her vast, penthouse dream pad, [italic] there were no bedrooms for her young daughters…[/italic]who were away at school. Not even a single guest room they might share.

They were put up in a hotel when they “came home” during school breaks.

[quote]This is all you need to know about Crawford as a person: when she created her vast, penthouse dream pad, there were no bedrooms for her young daughters…who were away at school. Not even a single guest room they might share.

Sounds perfect. When I bought my 4 bedroom house. One room was my bedroom. The other was an office. The other was a closet and dressing. The other one is storage. Guests, including family, are more than welcome to a hotel.

Including your underage children?

I don’t imagine any adoption agency would approve sending kids off to boarding school then shoving them in a hotel between terms, while the parent was living across town.

I guess Crawford didn’t explain that part.

Once they're adopted you can do whatever you want with them.

*

R76 If I were you I wouldn’t have admitted it.

Crawford when she was older wore expensive clothes but they didn’t really belong on her. She didn’t dress in a way that flattered her. And she usually wore heavy jewelry that wasn’t attractive.

[R76] If I were you I wouldn’t have admitted it.

Why not? I'm not ashamed. I have no desire to be a bed and breakfast for anyone, but me.

The only other classic Hollywood star who lost her looks as rapidly was Lauren Bacall.

But as Bacall matured she looked fabulous as an older woman. She also seemed more comfortable with it, unlike Crawford.

No idea if they met. I know Bacall worshipped Bette Davis and made clear she did so from early in her career, so I doubt Crawford had any interest.

R84 Davis lost her looks more than Bacall ever did.

They didn't start out with the same level of bone structure and metabolism, r85.

R85, true...somehow Davis had such an iconic look during her middle age I never think of her as looking younger.

Bette was a pretty girl. In The Man Who Played God, for instance (going way back). Her good looks were mentioned in reviews.

Bacall...I think she looked good until maybe her 80s! Not “the same” of course, but attractive.

Bette never had an illusion about her looks, but she certainly was attractive enough when she was young and could fake beauty if need be. But Betty had a model's face and figure and Bette had her low-slung bosom.

Say what you may about the cunt.... she was family.

I will go to my grave thinking Davis was bottled sex in the cocktail party in All About Eve.

Comparing Davis and Bacall is silly, they were nothing alike.

R92, as Davis told Bacall after seeing the latter's play based on All About Eve, "No one could have done this but you," the two ladies in question might have ample cause to disagree.

It surprises me Crawford still got the younger guys, in the 1950s, like Kirk Douglas (I think he mentioned her giving him her key, in his book.) She looked kind of grotesque, by then. When these young male stars could get any hot young women, I don’t understand why Crawford and her bushy eyebrows got them horny.

MILF on the Beach

Hollywood Royalty

[quote]R83 I'm not ashamed. I have no desire to be a bed and breakfast for anyone, but me.

You wouldn’t provide rooms in your house for your underage children?

Have you gathered that’s what we’re discussing?

R94, but Joan was as famous as a person could be in the 1950s. That was probably an erotic thrill for some. Also, she was probably great in bed.

I read somewhere (not recently, don’t remember where) about how Crawford had the hots for both Henry Fonda and Dana Andrews when she made Daisy Kenyon with them at Fox, and how she acted rather foolish at the wrap party because she felt rejected (or something. Just acting very childish). I don’t know if either man had an affair with her or not. Fonda said she had a red sequined jockstrap delivered to him, then asked him during a scene rehearsal when he was carrying her upstairs if he was wearing it, and he said he nearly dropped her.

[quote]Why not? I'm not ashamed. I have no desire to be a bed and breakfast for anyone, but me.

Do you at least keep turkey meatballs and non-event toast on hand?

He's a REPORTER! Datalounge, please!

It must be hard to convincingly tell friends and relatives you don’t have the space to put them up when you have four bedrooms in your house and no children.

Not hard at all R102. I don't sugarcoat it, I give them links to two very nice hotels close to my house.

R103, Well, you must be amazing to visit if they’re willing to pay for a hotel stay just to hang around with you.

r103 And they don't mind paying the hourly rates?

Anyway, I think it’s bizarre a mother made her children stay at a hotel when they came home from boarding school. What were they supposed to think of as their home? The hotel? Come on.

r102 You seem very hurt by it

R107 Do I? I’m not.

[quote]Well, you must be amazing to visit if they’re willing to pay for a hotel stay just to hang around with you.

No not really. To me, it's a courtesy thing. When I visit friends or even my parents house, I get a hotel room. Quests staying at your house is disruptive, I will never disrupt someone's normal routine for a visit and I don't expect anyone else to disrupt mine.

Now back to Miss Crawford, the girls were away at school. I'm sure when they visited there was a place for them to stay. Some of the Joan stories are just exaggerated myth based on that awful Christina's book. The two little girls loved Joan, so I guess the lack of a permanent room (if that's true) didn't bother them.

r108 You do, oddly.

But what I'm not getting, surely Joan's penthouse had at least a couple of guest bedrooms, didn't it? Not to mention a maid (Mamacita!) It is weird if she couldn't muster the warmth to welcome those girls to her unmotherly bosom.

r111 Has anyone here even provided evidence that the hotel thing is true? Why are you so hung up on that?

The whole story on Joan's fabulous 5th Ave. apartment, which was at E. 70th St.

R110 What makes you think I’m “hurt by it”? I just think it’s fucked up. If that’s okay with you. I’ll be sure to check with you before posting anything from now on.

r114 Thank you that was very "I know you are, but what am I?"

N115 Actually, it wasn’t. It was more, “What’s your fucking problem?”

R115^

*

r116 All good - you'll be ok, sweetie

R119 Yeah, oaky. I like you, too. :)

Here’s another interview. “You and Norman Shearer were my mother’s favorite actresses.”

Joan smokes and has a Pepsi in front of her.

Most likely Pepsi mixed with vodka, R121.

[quote]R106 I think it’s bizarre a mother made her children stay at a hotel when they came home from boarding school. What were they supposed to think of as their home?

And did they carry everything they owned in a suitcase? I don’t imagine Joan’s place had rows of Nancy Drew books on the windowsills.

This is an especially hurtful way to raise adoptees, who began as orphans with nothing.

[quote]This is an especially hurtful way to raise adoptees, who began as orphans with nothing.

They were infants when Joan adopted them, r123.

And they were likely stolen babies.

Joan was very conscious of publicity and her image. Is it really likely that she would do something so publicly odious as making her minor children stay in a hotel? I'd be quicker to believe that she gave them a space smaller and less nice than the maid's quarters than that she made them stay in a hotel (where the staff would be bound to talk).

Do you think Joan was putting out to the very end?

Smart of Joan to have separate bedrooms, they didn't even connect with a Jack and Jill bathroom in the middle. Keeps a little a mystery in the marriage.

[quote]R126 Is it really likely that she would do something so publicly odious as making her minor children stay in a hotel? I'd be quicker to believe that she gave them a space smaller and less nice than the maid's quarters

Can you find this “smaller and less nice” space on the apartment diagram @ r113?

Why didn't Joan get Christina a role in her later films? Bette put B.D. in WHTBJ.

That apartment is a dystopian nightmare

^^I kind of like the minimalism. And of course, it looked very clean and organized.

[quote]And of course, it looked very clean and organized.

You bet your ass it did, r132.

[quote]Can you find this “smaller and less nice” space on the apartment diagram @ [R113]?

Those plans don't look like architectural plans, so they may not have shown the children's rooms. Or maybe Joan got the girls a separate apartment a few floors away.

Who the fuck cares about the "twins"?!

She rarely did comedies et she was funny in The Women

Interesting documentary on the making of Mommie Dearest with Frank Yablans, Rutanya Alda and Diana Scarwid

Wonder who took those interesting color home movies at R 8? She certainlt does look very glamorous, though her beauty was already atarting to harden. Did second husband Phillip Terry take them? One of her longtime pals George Cukor or “Butch” Romero or Billy Haines?

Probably one of her gay male pals. She wouldn’t have been as relaxed with a husband or fuck buddy.

With all that cleaning mania - do you think Joan gave Alfred Steele regular rim jobs?

Joan being Joan

She probably made the twins sleep on the plastic covered sofas.

Joan at 60

The interviewer at OP is terrible. Woofe who?

R125-

Young Christina: [Entering Joan's bedroom after seeing her dolls are missing] My babies! Someone stole both my babies!

Joan Crawford: That's good, darling. They were thoughtless, selfish, spoiled children - now they won't wake you up when you need your rest.

Thanks R113.....most interesting & entertaining.

[quote]Do you think Joan was putting out to the very end?

"Putting out?" She was still trying to SELL it.

I found the twins’ bedrooms on the floor plan! They’re side by side, right off the entry hall!

I don’t think Joan had a genuine bone in her body. It wasn’t all her fault, I’m sure her childhood was riddled with trauma. She created a character and then stayed in character her entire life. Or maybe the screaming at Christina and obsessive cleaning were the only genuine breakouts.

And B.D. couldn’t even get out a few innocuous lines. She was so awful that if I hadn’t known who she was I would have looked it up to see who she was related to.

Al didn’t get a bathroom?

[quote]R148 I don’t think Joan had a genuine bone in her body. It wasn’t all her fault, I’m sure her childhood was riddled with trauma.

Hollywood was probably riddled with trauma for her, too. In that, I mean, it’s probably impossible to be a ball breaking bitch all day at work for years, fighting your way up every inch of the way and then tearing your talons in for dear life to stay on top, then turn your off hours into being a warmly supportive parent (where you have to put a child’s needs first.) Basically, she couldn’t do both jobs.

I’m not sure there were that many female stars with great mental health. Jeanne Crain seemed comparatively normal. She had scores of kids and a businessman (?) husband. Some director once said, “I could never figure out what she was doing in Hollywood.”

The twins Cathy and Cindy were 8 years old in1955, when Crawford sold her L.A. home, sent them off to boarding school, and built her luxe NYC penthouse apartment with no bedrooms for them.

All perfectly normal, of course.

R151 Jeanne Crain’s husband was studio contract actor who later became a businessman. In the ‘50s, with 4 children, they both took out divorce papers, each claiming the other was unfaithful. They reconciled, had 3 more kids, but ended up living apart, though still seeing each other.

I wonder how many actresses had seven children. I mean, without adopting in exchange for public praise.

Rs 152 & 153: There was a time when I visited the website of one of Jeanne Crain’s grandchildren. Jeanne may have seemed relatively normal but she was depicted as vain and self-centered, and since the husband often prowled around with other women the couple fought and were on the outs with each other for years. Near as I could tell, the parents weren’t abusive but there was a certain amount of benign neglect and narcissism in the house, with the kids not being the center of attention. They were probably mostly raised by “staff.”

I like Jeanne Crain very much during her ingenue phase in the ‘40s (by the ‘50s she looked like every other glamor girl) but it’s notable that the two best directors she ever worked with — Joe Mankiewicz and Elia Kazan — said she was the blandest and least interesting actress and woman they had ever worked with. No shadows, no temperament, nothing sexy or interesting to hang onto for them (though her sexiness in that period came from not trying to be sexy).

Mankiewicz even gave the two characters she played in his movies the same name — Deborah — which he said was a nake he had always hated.

Maybe because I'm GenX, I don't understand this fascination ( or maybe criticism is the right word) with how people parented back in the day. You will criticize Joan and Jeanne Crain or all the others in this thread and then go into the Gen Z threads and complain about how they were coddled by helicopter parents. Pick a lane. Kids don't come with instruction manuals. I think it's ridiculous to assume that Joan Crawford didn't have a set up for her daughters in some form.

[quote]R156 I think it's ridiculous to assume that Joan Crawford didn't have a set up for her daughters in some form.

Okay - find references for it.

The “set up” was boarding schools from age 8 onward and a hotel room between semesters. Meanwhile Joan remodeled two duplexes into one for herself (4,000 square feet spread between two floors.)

The twins always said Joan was a good mother.

Perhaps the twins, unlike Christina, were saved by growing up in boarding schools and hotels.

R156 The style described for Crawford and Crain wasn’t how most people parented (if that was even a verb, then). I ean to say it would not be considered good regardless of the era.

*mean to say

Maybe she was…. with them. In some (or even many) ways. She adopted those 2 at a different time in her life than the first 2 (really 3, but the first 1 was reclaimed by his mother shortly after the adoption.)

But how can one rationalize a parent who doesn’t provide bed rooms for their 8 year old children in a customized, remodeled, 4,000 square foot penthouse apartment? By any standard, that is bizarre and inhuman behavior.

^^ Re:

[quote]r158 The twins always said Joan was a good mother.

I'm really surprised and pleased this thread has been fairly popular. I admit I never get tired of anything Joan related whether it's one of her movies- even the BAD ones or an interview like this. I really enjoyed the photos R113- what a fun spread of photos of her Manhattan apartment. I guess she moved out because she could no longer afford it. Her movie offers had pretty much dried up by the late 1960's

Thanks for the thread R164

[quote]Her movie offers had pretty much dried up by the late 1960s.

I would guess that, after "Trog," she saw the handwriting on the wall and realized that her movie career had nowhere to go but even further down, if that was even possible. Meanwhile, Bette Davis kept right on working.

[quote]But how can one rationalize a parent who doesn’t provide bed rooms for their 8 year old children in a customized, remodeled, 4,000 square foot penthouse apartment? By any standard, that is bizarre and inhuman behavior.

You don't know what Joan provided for her daughters. You're jumping to conclusions.

R166 Crawford worked after Trog but she was in relatively poor health. She had bad dental issues and other things.

R165- You're welcome.

Plus it must have started becoming more and more of an effort to pretend to be in her '60s when she was really in her '70s.

(Or whatever her real age was - probably known only to her.)

[quote]r167 You don't know what Joan provided for her daughters. You're jumping to conclusions.

Can you find the girls’ bedroom(s) on the floor plan?

Aren’t YOU jumping to conclusions in thinking these invisible sleeping quarters were there?

The question was posed to one of the twins’ son (I think it was the son) years ago on that exhaustive site. He said his mother and aunt indeed were put up in hotels in NYC between school terms and over the holidays - unless they were all traveling somewhere else on vacation.

He claimed his mother didn’t complain about it… but then there still are children hit, or whatever, by parents and who don’t blame their abuser.

Still, as foundlings, i don’t think they were really in the best position to complain about much. There’s often an underlying emotional feeling with adoptees that you could always be shipped back to the orphanage.

Oh, my God. Who cares??

I think that’s what Crawford shrieked.

There were photos published of Joan and Roz Russell at an event some time I believe in the 1970s and when Joan saw them, she realized it was time to stop appearing in public and, indeed, never was seen again. She's wearing an awful wig in them. Roz doesn't look too hot either but she was dying.

Does anyone know which photos I mean? What year were those photos?

R175, That was at the Rainbow Room in 1974.

She was a tiny woman with an enormous head. The padded shoulders didn’t help. Head vs body ratio I noticed years ago.

Roz was bloated from cancer treatments but otherwise didn't look that bad and reportedly laughed it off when a horrified Joan called her and asked whether she had seen those photos (at R176). Joan said something to the effect of, "Well, if that's how I look, then they're never going to see me again."

The Roz Russell party at the Rainbow Room in 1974 was Joan's last official public appearance. When she saw the photos in the papers the next day she was horrified about how she looked and became a recluse in her NYC apartment for the rest of her life.

To be honest, her face still looked pretty good for a (more or less) 70 year old woman. It was that hideous wig that really stood out. If she'd worn a more flattering wig she would've looked fine.

R179, agreed. I think the problem was that she looked her age in those photos, and she couldn't stand that.

R176- Photo 47 says Joan Crawford with Unknown.

It should say Joan Crawford with Unknown HOMOSEXUAL.

Joan would have looked fine with a much better wig.

Plus the caterpillars she called eyebrows did her no favors whatsoever.

You're thinking of Deanna Durbin.

I'm thinking of Turhan Bey.

Then bring him to the obscure celebrities thread.

[quote] Roz was bloated from cancer treatments but otherwise didn't look that bad and reportedly laughed it off when a horrified Joan called her and asked whether she had seen those photos (at [R176]). Joan said something to the effect of, "Well, if that's how I look, then they're never going to see me again."

Why didn't she just get a facelift?

Maybe she had gotten one, R187.

R188 She doesn't look like it. She may have had something minor at some point but she never looked like she had much or anything done. Maybe her Christian Science beliefs...

By the time of these photos, Rosalind Russell's hands were claws from the arthritis medicine she had to take.....even the gloves couldn't hide them.

Not from the arthritis itself?

I would guess that it was also about seeing how old Roz looked in the photos that was a jolt of reality for Joan. Us 2 old broads REALLY do look old. Also, the profile shots of Joan were particularly cruel.

I believe Joan died in 1977 so I guess it was just a couple of years of confinement.

What would Roz's looks have anything to do with it?

You're obviously on the young side, r193. When I see my old friends, those I grew up with, who are my age (74!), it's quite the reality check. In my mind I think I look so much better, so much younger than them, but then we'll take a selfie and......sad.....

Oh yes when you get older and see how you photograph you feel like screaming.

They used to shoot Shirley Temple through gauze. They should be shooting me through linoleum.

R194 Oh.

[quote]In my mind I think I look so much better, so much younger than them, but then we'll take a selfie and......sad.....

There's a scene in one of her final movies in which Vivien Leigh looks into a mirror and screams. I often find myself reenacting that scene.

R198 must be Ship Of Fools. Leigh died in her mid 50s, but easily looked 15-20 years older. Her illnesses, drinking and smoking took a huge toll on her.

I'm over 50 and recently saw a friend who I haven't seen since college and I thought, my God he's gotten old. Shortly after, I realized that he probably is thinking the same thing about me. Aging is not cool.

It may be "Ship of Fools" (1965), but I think she still looked lovely in this scene.

[quote]R198, must be Ship Of Fools. Leigh died in her mid 50s, but easily looked 15-20 years older.

Yes, that's the one. I couldn't remember whether it was "Ship of Fools" or "The Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone," with Warren Beatty. Hard to believe that an actor who was paired with Vivien Leigh is still with us, although, Beatty, who turns 87 on March 30th, is a lot older than Vivien got to be.

Viv did look lovely. But not to herself, which is the point.

[quote] must be Ship Of Fools. Leigh died in her mid 50s, but easily looked 15-20 years older. Her illnesses, drinking and smoking took a huge toll on her.

Well a couple of years before Ship Of Fools she did manage to do this...

Viv is just utterly charming in her dance routine. Interesting choice to pair her with a boy who couldn't really sing even as he's carrying the song.

Fun fact: Viven's replacement in "Tovarich" was Eva Gabor.

R205 It's not easy to sing and dance at the same time.

Tonys

Vivien actually won the Tony for Best Actress in a Musical for Tovarich.

R208 I miss English actresses speaking in those posh accents.

Though not a dancer she was so graceful, her hand movements were beautiful. Judging by his ass he WAS primarily a dancer, didn’t need a pretty voice to put that song over.

You could also judge it by his dancing.

R153- Saw what you will about Jeanne Crain but here she is quite proud of her

beautiful 1957 Desoto.

1960 - what a year for Broadway plays! The Miracle Worker, A Raisin in the Sun, The 10th Man, The Best Man, Sweet Bird of Youth, Toys in the Attic

[quote] Why didn't she just get a facelift?

She had planned to get one as late as 1976. Richard Donner wanted her to play Martha Kent in Superman which started filming in her final months. She also planned in 1976 a move from the city to the Connecticut countryside. There are telephone recordings from her final weeks left on people's machines and she did not sound unwell.

[quote]Saw what you will about Jeanne Crain but here she is quite proud of her beautiful 1957 Desoto.

Did she have to fuck Groucho to get that?

R215 Phyllis Thaxter was a better choice

Joan would have insisted on Jean Louis to create her Ma Kent wardrobe. I think they dodged a bullet.

Joan would have insisted on strapping young Clark to his bed every night for reasons that are well-known to him.

Did Jor El (Marlon Brando) ever fuck Joanie?

[quote]There's a scene in one of her final movies in which Vivien Leigh looks into a mirror and screams.

I hate it when I accidentally hit the camera button on my phone, causing me to get a sudden and unexpected look at my 70-year-old face, and in the most unflattering light possible. Talk about wanting to scream . . .

[quote]R220 Did Jor El (Marlon Brando) ever fuck Joanie?

She sent him a script (I think AUTUMN LEAVES?) and he replied that he wasn’t interested in doing any mother/son projects at this time.

So I would guess NO.

R222 what a cheeky, gorgeous bastard!

Though they had the same initials Jeanne Crain was no Joan Crawford. I doubt most people could name a film Jeanne was in. Looking her up on IMDB, A letter to Three Wives (1949) seems like the only notable film she was in.

State Fair

Pinky

Cheaper By the Dozen

Vicki

Just off the top of my head.

She was nominated for an Oscar for Pinky.

[quote]Though they had the same initials Jeanne Crain was no Joan Crawford. I doubt most people could name a film Jeanne was in.

"Hot Rods to Hell," with her "State Fair" co-star Dana Andrews!

...and Mickey Rooney, Jr. & his Combo

Jeanne Crain was a true beauty and very lucky. Her looks got her cast in some great films but she did nothing to make them better. Personally, I think she stunk up an otherwise perfect film A LETTER TO THREE WIVES.

That said, I do wonder what her Eve Harrington (opposite originally cast Claudette Colbert) might have been like and if her lack of craft would have somehow made her portrayal weirdly fascinating.

Jeanne Crain was never cast as Eve Harrington, as far as I know. Zanuck suggested her to Mankiewicz as wel as marlene Dietrich as margo and Jose Ferrer as Addison).

Anne Baxter and Claudete Colbert were cast partly because of their slight resemblance.

I had always heard that Crain was indeed cast as Eve but had to bow out due to her pregnancy.

Mel Gussow in the NYTimes said this in 2000:

“In two casting choices, Mankiewicz won over Zanuck: Zanuck wanted Jeanne Crain to play Eve Harrington and Jose Ferrer as Addison DeWitt...”

Mankiewicz didn’t like Crain and I think he would have put up a fight if he had had to use her in a role this important.

There’s also evidence (studio correspondence) that 20th asked MGM about June Allyson’s availability for the role.

I guess between Crain and Allyson, Zanuck saw Eve as a more sugary type.

June Allyson wasn’t usually ‘sugary’ but a lot of people seem to want to see her that way.

Excuse me...ex-c-u-u-u-s-e me...

Thank God Gertrude lawrence didn’t do it. Plus I think she was closer to 50 than 40.

Actually she was over 50.

[quote]r225 State Fair - Pinky - Cheaper By the Dozen - Vicki

She also had an important supporting role in “Leave Her to Heaven.” She gets the man in the end!

Apartment for Peggy is a really good movie but forgotten. About a suicidal old retired philosophy professor who thinks he has nothing to live for, who’s talked into renting his attic to a young couple (JC and William Holden). She’s pregnant, and the husband is going to college on the G. I. Bill. She gets the prof (Edmund Gwenn) to teach classes for the wives.

JC meaning Jeanne Crain, not Joan Crawford.

Still, as good as the movie is, Jeanne could be trying, at times. She’s supposed to be very talkative and enthusiastic and she overdoes it.

Joan in Robert Aldrich's Autumn Leaves.

Did Jeanne Crain play any outright sexy roles? I’ve seen color pinup style pics of her, but she mostly seemed like a wholesome type.

Sorry R255 I should have said that except for queens on DL over the age of 50 most people probably couldn't name a film Crain was in and likely never heard of her.

News clips on Joan's death. Couldn't find any on Jeanne C.

r242. most people under 50 probably couldn't name a film Katharine Hepburn was in so what does it all mean?

R221- I'm so fuckin angry when that happens- It's like biting your own lip.

I like Jeanne Craine in MARGIE and STATE FAIR.

Jeanne introduced the Rodgers and Hammerstein song "It Might As Well Be Spring" in "State Fair," although her singing was dubbed, as was the singing of DL's favorite starlet, Pamela Tiffin, who played Jeanne's role in the terrible 1962 remake.

[quote]as was the singing of DL's favorite starlet, Pamela Tiffin

Starlets! Starlets! Starlets!

And Janet Gaynor played the Crain/Tiffin character in the original early talkie (with no R&H songs, of course) version of State Fair.

[Quote] most people under 50 probably couldn't name a film Katharine Hepburn was in so what does it all mean?

most people over 50 recognize Crawford, Davis, Lana Tuner, Taylor, Monroe or both Hepburns but would be less likely to recognize Crain who was never in their league.

Jeanne acted with closeted gay star Lon McCallister in Home in Indiana (as "Char", a horsey sort of teenager). June Haver was her rival for Lon's affections (as "Cri Cri"). The movie was in color even though the picture is b&w.

Joan would be furious that Jeanne has invaded her thread and won't leave. Jeanne Crain, of all people!!!

[quote]most people under 50 probably couldn't name a film Katharine Hepburn was in so what does it all mean?

Mommie Dearest secured JC’s fame. That’s why most modern people know who she is.

She owes Christina the biggest thank you card ever (from hell.)

At this point in time I'd guess most people under 50 (other than selected gays) are barely aware of Mommie, Dearest, the film or the book.

Or certainly under 40.

[quote]Mommie Dearest secured JC’s fame. That’s why most modern people know who she is.

Modern gay people, anyway.

Fans of old movies would recognize Joan Crawford today if there never had been a "Mommie Dearest."

People who remember her, remember her.

Moving on...

R353 Don't forget about Feud. If you showed anyone a picture of Jeanne Crain and asked who it was, I seriously doubt anyone could identify her. Monroe, Davis . . .are very recognizable icons immortalized in songs, biographies and the enduring popularity of their films.

R253 ⬆️⬆️ She Has Bette Davis Eyes!

Hmm, is she pregnant there?

With 8 kids, probably.

R215 Joanie would have had her eyes on replacing Margot Kidder, in the event she became unavailable.

"It'll be GRAAAAAAND!"

So what if people don't remember Jeanne Crain? I can't remember what I had for breakfast.

Does that mean we can't talk about her? And not Joan Crawford, for a change?

What's there to discuss Colleen?

^^ Crawford was initially going to do that one - but then Trog came out to disastrous reviews and the producers got cold feet.

Jeanne graciously (as she did everything) filled in for her.

r262 r263 COLEEN, not Colleen.

it's trivial R265