I wonder why Liz Cheney or Adam Kinzinger didn't run this time

Neither one of them has a chance in hell in winning a Republican primary. The Republican base is with Trump.

Cheney going against Trump meant she lost her own election.

Ds cheer Liz because she's anti-Trump, but how many Ds would actually vote for her over Biden? Very few. And she'd lose a lot of MAGA-loving Rs in the general, so...

But to even get to that point she'd have to win the primary which isn't happening for anyone not named Trump. Vivek was Trump, but someone who could actually speak and debate rather than just act demented. Rejected. DeSantis was Trump, but with actual results* to show for himself. Rejected. Haley is the anti-Trump. Rejected. The MAGA crowd wants Trump and Trump alone. (*I'm not saying what he pushed through Florida was good, but they were actual accomplishments he worked for and achieved, not just words like with Trump. Oh, I'm sorry, he did get his own sneakers... LOL. )

Now, are there Republicans that want someone more reasonable than Trump? Yes. Are there independents that lean R that want that? Yes. But there aren't enough to overcome the MAGAs. And even if Liz had run independent, there aren't enough Ds and Rs that would leave their candidates to help her beat the two actual parties.

I never thought I'd respect her like I do. She's not just Dick Cheney in a ponytail. Either of them, mature but not old, and vigorously focused on the country, would be a breath of fresh air. Sadly no chance in hell. Also people are afraid of invoking Jan 6 for fear of stirring up shit, but the Nazis that support Trump are itching for a redo and they invoke it regularly. We better be aware. A strong candidate of opposition to the seditionists would be symbolic for the country and a lot of people need to see that.

I just feel like the strength of Trump is overrated, and someone should have tried harder to appeal to the middle of the road Republicans.

[quote] I wonder why Liz Cheney or Adam Kinzinger didn't run this time

Maybe there’s only so much humiliation they can take at a time.

[quote] Neither one of them has a chance in hell in winning a Republican primary.

To be accurate, neither of them has a chance in hell in winning a Republican or Democratic primary. When neither party wants a politician, that shows how awful that person is.

Probably because of this

I still want Adam's dong to punch me in the fartbox.

Because OP they don't want to waste their time? Cheney represents a world which no longer exists, and that has nothing to do with Trump.

Cheney represents Pax Americana. Republicans were the champions of Pax Americana since Reagan, but after the failure of Iraq, they began to back away with it. They now favor isolationism.

Who has picked up Pax Americana? The Democrats, fools that they are.

And here is the problem. The left: the actual left: also hates Pax Americana. They always have! Even Lisa Simpson has a "US OUT OF EVERYWHERE" bumper sticker!

When the far left and far right come into agreement, PAY ATTENTION. That is a major societal shift. When Biden went out after the bombardment of Israel and affirmed their right to do whatever they want, his reelection was dead. He lost the left. His values are that of his generation, who are nearly all dead. Most young people don't remember Yitzak Rabin. They have lived their whole lives with Benjamin Netanyahu.

The Biden supporters drum up Putin every five seconds. Putin, Putin, Putin, Putin. Guess what? No one under fifty cares! They barely remember the Cold War! It doesn't mean they like Putin. It means they simply don't have the visceral reaction that old people do to "evil Russia" and "godless communism."

What Cheney did was very decent even though I don't agree with her political values, many of which are despicable. But we don't live in her world anymore. She is the Norma Desmond of Jackson Hole.

[quote]When Biden went out after the bombardment of Israel and affirmed their right to do whatever they want, his reelection was dead. He lost the left.

So instead "the left" will help elect a man who will fully support Netanyahu's worst impulses and will scapegoat all Muslims, everywhere, including Palestine?

What's wrong with the latter part? Islam is evil.

Biden scapegoats Muslims? Uh, okaaaaay.

Trump wins the Republican nomination. Biden is elected President.

Read more carefully, R12.

Liz and Adam have no natural constituency. Yes, many of us would be relieved to have individuals like them in office.

But how many Dems will vote for someone adamantly against abortion, for example?

R13 I think the problem is that Biden will/would likely win the popular national vote... my guess is by even more than 2020 (8 million is my guess), but Trump absolutely has a chance in the electoral college. (Also, if/when Trump loses the "he won, the election was rigged and we have proof!!... there will be chaos and possibly violence.)

R4 I agree that the national mindset is wrong about the strength and popularity of Trump (and so the neurosis of American voters). Essentially he's running as an incumbent President in the primaries...and an incumbent President not reaching 60% support (in the South Carolina primary) is hugely significant.

Aside from hating Trump name one other thing you support that Liz has done? Was it when she came out against her gay sister getting married?

[quote] So instead "the left" will help elect a man who will fully support Netanyahu's worst impulses and will scapegoat all Muslims, everywhere, including Palestine?

Have you ever heard of the maxim "the worse, is better"? That sometimes it's in your interest to want something terrible to happen, as it's the only way to convince others that you are correct?

It was coined by Lenin.

My God, you people go on and on about Russia but don't seem to know anything about Bolsheviks or the Revolution. I bet you couldn't even stay awake during Doctor Zhivago.

[quote]R9: The Biden supporters drum up Putin every five seconds. Putin, Putin, Putin, Putin. Guess what? No one under fifty cares! They barely remember the Cold War! It doesn't mean they like Putin. It means they simply don't have the visceral reaction that old people do to "evil Russia" and "godless communism."

Putin isn't part of the past, R9. He's a current adversary who's trying to game the 2024 election toward Trump, like he did in 2016. Nor is any of this about "godless communism." Russia is religious. Very religious.

But make no mistake. Russia is evil.

[quote]R18: My God, you people go on and on about Russia but don't seem to know anything about Bolsheviks or the Revolution. I bet you couldn't even stay awake during Doctor Zhivago.

Maybe 'Dr Zhivago' is where your understanding is at, but Newsflash: Russia isn't communist anymore. That ended some thirty-five years ago.

Liz Cheney was a Republican rep from Wyoming. She is now a pariah there. Undeserved, but it's...Wyoming.

Kinzinger was from a deep-red Illinois district. Neither of them could elected today in their home states. Hilary had to move from Arkansas to DC to NY to get elected.

Both of them are brave and more importantly, right. In a lot of places in the United States, that makes you unelectable.

Liz is now supportive of marriage equality.

She also is on the right side when it comes to issues like Russia/Ukraine and her stance re: the border might be tougher than many Dems would like, it wouldn’t likely be inhumane.

Liz and Kinzinger are both Republicans. That alone is a complete disqualifier.

Good God. When did the left become war mongers?

R24 Please, re-write this post... compare and contrast, more specific details and cite your sources. Post due by tomorrow.

The Republicans have been poisoned by Trump and there’s no turning back until he dies. Even when he loses in November, they will still cling and cater to him. Only in his death will they regroup but most likely they will look for a new Trumplike leader.

[quote]He's a current adversary who's trying to game the 2024 election toward Trump, like he did in 2016. Nor is any of this about "godless communism." Russia is religious. Very religious. But make no mistake. Russia is evil.

They are evil because... they want an American President whose interest aligns with theirs?

They are merely acting in their self-interest, as we do, as all nations do. We gave enormous amounts of money to the Afghan mujahideen because they fought the Soviet Union, which led to its destabilization. We gave millions of dollars of aid to Saudi Arabia, who used that money to export an extremely severe form of Islam to other parts of the world. Do you know how that ended?

▲ R27:

Yes we are aware that communists seek the misery of the proletariat to hasten revolution R18.

We are also aware that modern day fascists seek the same societal destruction and call it accelerationism

Gee r29, it’s almost as if he discovered that the organizing principle of any society is for war. The authority of the state over its people resides in its war powers.

This has been known since Helen was kidnapped.

It just feeds Trump's arrogance when they stand up to him just to fade away.

[quote] It just feeds Trump's arrogance when they stand up to him just to fade away.

The problem is that each of these people have a Savior complex that makes them feel like they are the chosen one to save the country. Cheney sees herself as a bare-breasted Liberty leading the people. They absolutely intentionally make it about themselves and grab the spotlight and the news channel cameras.

The better method would have been to form a group with maybe a dozen well-known Republicans (not mercenary operatives like the Lincoln Project) without any one of them being the face of the group. It’s too easy for Trump and his supporters to pick off the solo Saviors.

LOL permanent war? The US hasn't been out of a war since WWII. No which president was it who was the first one, in decades, not to start a new war?

Adam isn't loved in Illinois. He did nothing for the state but carved out a career by opposing Trump. God bless him for that but that's it.

R17 Above all I like Liz's belief and fight to maintain a democracy.

Adam served as eye candy. Yeah, he's brave in many ways. Fighter pilot, battled a robber, stood up to Trump, posed nude, etc.