'Star Trek: Discovery' season 5

This makes me sad. I like this show.

R1 Me too

Five seasons is a decent run for a modern Trek show. I don't think we're ever going back to those seven seasons, 20+ episodes per season days.

I'm much more sad for Strange New Worlds because there are dark clouds gathering over that one, and the future of live-action Trek shows in general.

Canadian actor Kenneth Mitchell has died. He played a couple of Klingon characters on Discovery early on, then got diagnosed with ALS, appeared in human form in a wheelchair in a later season, and now the disease has claimed him.

Really happy to see T'Rina in the preview. She and Saru are adorable together.

Wilson Cruz in his white uniform is a thing of hotness.

How many times will Michael cry or whisper her lines?

[quote] there are dark clouds gathering over that one, and the future of live-action Trek shows in general.

Do you mean in regard to Paramount+'s future? I'm kinda optimistic. I firmly believe that the Star Trek franchise has a future even without P+, maybe even a better future. In theory they could sell Star Trek shows to each and every streamer. Some streamer may opt to buy multiple shows. At this point Paramount designed Star Trek shows per parameters fitting for P+ desired customer base. P+ doesn't have enough young subscriber? Let's design a Star Trek show just for them. Other streamers may ask for other/more flavors.

Trek has been declared dead many times before.

I love Discovery.

Just watched the premiere and fucking hell, the visuals are just INSANE. I've never seen anything like it in a Trek show before, totally get now why post-production on Discovery takes so long. Camerawork was outstanding as well, felt like I was right there in with the action. How awesome was Michael hurtling towards the bridge from space, the beaming straight onto it? Don't tell me you've never wanted to see that before.

Tilly's love interest, played by Gregory Calderone, is beautiful, but seems highly homosexual. I hope she doesn't get burned. Her new poodle hairstyle is atrocious.

Most exciting season mystery so far for me. A Data-like android! Picard! The Progenitors! Anyone else clock L'ak's face changing after he took off his helmet in the Romulan ship? What was that all about?

They gave my boy Linus brand new lizard ears, I love it. Hope he features more this season.

[quote]Wilson Cruz in his white uniform is a thing of hotness.

He lives in my neighborhood and I see him on Scruff from time to time.

One of these days, I’ll be drunk enough to hit him up.

The guys look decidedly less hot in the new uniforms this season. That huge slit in the front that keeps flapping all over the place as they walk is so unflattering. Why do they have to mess with the uniforms literally every single season, it's not cute anymore. Gersha Phillips left after the fourth season and it shows, the uniforms looks so busy all of a sudden.

Rhys of course remains hot regardless, his toosh looked so good in action mode.

It appears that they've decided to lean into what they perceive as the Picard S3 formula. Whether they hit it right or not - who knows.

The premise of the season is basically an expanded version of TNG The Chase (which was a good episode).

I'm really, really, really hoping that Salome Jens gets a cameo in a Progenitor hologram or something. THAT would be so very cool. If they don't do it, it's an opportunity missed, just like Picard missed out on having a cameo from her as the female changeling.

I wasn't as captivated by the second episode, it's basically a MacGuffin chase from the second season all over again. The CG landscape on the planet looked pretty iffy as well. Still, at least we'll get to see the Progenitors by the end, so that's exciting.

R14, I share your hope. Salome Jens has recent IMDB voice acting credits. Great to see she's still working!

I hate that it started with what has become my least favorite trope: The open on exciting scene then record scratch with a "4 hours ago" caption to a boring scene that eventually leads to us seeing the opening seen again. Bleh. So tired. So unimaginative. So over-done.

[quote]I'm really, really, really hoping that Salome Jens gets a cameo in a Progenitor hologram or something. THAT would be so very cool. If they don't do it, it's an opportunity missed, just like Picard missed out on having a cameo from her as the female changeling.

I should clarify that I mean NEW scenes with Jens vs. the clips from The Chase that they've already shown.

What species is Discovery's Number One? His ears are so peculiar.

r17 Yeah, I hate that as well. At this point, how does no one groan in the writers' room whenever that is suggested?

*Discovery's NEW Number One, obviously I wasn't asking about Saru.

[quote]What species is Discovery's Number One? His ears are so peculiar.

If you mean Captain Rayner - he's Kellerun who were introduced in DS9: Armageddon Game.

If you mean Saru (Doug Jones) - he's Kelpian.

I really like David Ajala - Book is sexy in an Idris Elba sort of way. He's one of the better new characters.

The other bridge officers never quite came together into interesting characters. Why they love Tilly is a mystery. And the Adira character was a waste of story time. They should have combined Tilly, Detmer, Rhys, and Owosekun into two characters and given them much more screen time.

The only time I can really stand Michael is in her scenes with Book. I love the two of the together, and I hate the whole "we're not together anymore" thing this season.

I loathe Tilly, so yeah the love she gets is a mystery to me.

The fact that I don't know any of the other Bridge character's names is a huge failing of this show. I mean I like the show, and have seen every episode, but I couldn't name the other characters on that Bridge (beyond Saru) if you promised me wads of cash for each one I got right. I'd end up with zero dollars.

Seriously, it's not like the characters are bad or don't have potential. They've just been so pushed to the fringes and most of them (except Saru) not really explored much at all.

All I've got is "Dark haired lesbian" and "Red head lesbian with tech in her head" and ... okay, after that I'm lost.

Hell, I can't even remember the names of the gay doctors very well (if I think really hard, I can come up with one or the other). And I hate them as a couple solely because I just can't stand that red-head dude from "Rent". HE CANNOT ACT. I hate his acting style and choices. He rubs me the wrong way (the actor, not the character).

All that said, I still like the show well enough, but I wish it were more memorable, with better, richer, deeper characters, and that it wasn't so damn serious & self-important.

I really tried to give DIS a chance but in the end I couldn't get past the truth that the writing is pure liquid shit. There's an opening episode in one of the seasons where Michael and her friend massacre dozens of mooks in a chase scene playing it up for comedy. That's not Star Trek. It's someone's mediocre sci-fi concept universe that cannibalised the Star Trek name because it had no soul to begin with.

r21 Thanks. Interesting, his ears seem closer to the Vorta than to the Kelleruns, hence my confusion.

Ranking Disco seasons: 2, 4, 3, 1

I'm hoping Season 5 becomes the new top season.

Also, I think I know why they love Tilly - apparently, the new Starfleet Academy show is set in the 32nd century which means she's probably one of the leads of that show if not the main character. They've been talking about that show for several years, so they've probably been pushing Tilly on Disco to set that up.

Yes, I just assumed all that cadet talk by Tilly is just a plug for the Starfleet Academy show. Which I'm lowkey looking forward to.

Star Trek 90210 sounds more like an attempt to get a younger audience into the franchise.

However, they won't do the one thing they'd need to do - hire exceptionally hot actors for the key roles. We won't see hot guys like Luke Perry or Jason Priestly or even DL favs Trevor Donovan and Matt Lanter. But, what they really need are some hot women to draw younger guys - there won't be any Seven of Nine catsuits.

The first two episodes were pretty good and filled with a lot of great action scenes. However, I found my attention waning a bit in the second. The premiere also didn't even attempt to not make Michael the center of attention. She goes on the away team mission, isn't impaired, lands on the two couriers' ship AND knocks it out of warp? Come on... (Is it even possible for someone to be outside a ship traveling faster than the speed of light in just a spacesuit and not get turned into Swiss cheese from the gravitational forces?)

Resurrecting the Progenitor story is a good move. "Next Gen" dropping that story so quickly despite it having great potential is one of the problems with non-serialized storytelling in the '90s. I get the feeling the season will end with Michael and the crew finding the Progenitor's technology, which is capable of doing amazing things that could benefit the galaxy, and deciding to destroy it for "moral" reasons.

The real headline to the season is Raynor. He's a great addition to the show and commanded every scene that featured him. His cynical, pragmatic approach is exactly the right counterpoint to Michael's constant crying and whispering that the show needs.

Can somebody help me out here please? They are looking for a McGuffin that leads them to the ancient technology that creates life? Did I get that right? And why is that such a big deal? I feel like I missed a crucial piece of the story.

[quote]Can somebody help me out here please? They are looking for a McGuffin that leads them to the ancient technology that creates life? Did I get that right? And why is that such a big deal? I feel like I missed a crucial piece of the story.

Have you seen the TNG episode The Chase?

The short version is that Picard and the Enterprise needed to chase down DNA fragments from multiple worlds which when combined produced a holographic message from the very first race EVER - the Progenitors. They evolved on their home planet millions of years before any other life in the galaxy. The became a space faring race and sought to find other life, but never found anyone else. They seeded life across the galaxy which explains why so many races have a vaguely humanoid body plan.

In order to complete the task, the Romulans teamed with Picard. The Romulan scientist whose book they were looking for before they downloaded the memory file of the synth android was among the Romulans who witnessed the final message from the Progrenitor.

Apparently, after that, the scientist continued searching for more about the Progenitors until he found a technology or a device that they used to seed life across the galaxy. He realized he needed to hide it, so created the various macguffins - map pieces - that they're now hunting. Once all the pieces are assembled, they think that it will lead them to the progenitor technology.

Thanks for getting me up to speed, r31.

[quote] Once all the pieces are assembled, they think that it will lead them to the progenitor technology.

Would that be so catastrophic? Let 'em have it. I mean the most impact the technology can have is creating more life, right?

I'd rather they took on the Iconians, but I can live with Progenitors as well.

[quote]Would that be so catastrophic? Let 'em have it. I mean the most impact the technology can have is creating more life, right?

As Spock noted when answering McCoy's question regarding what would happen if the Genesis device were introduced where life already existed, it would very likely destroy such life in favor of its new matrix...

Without knowing more, the Progenitor technology could be a galactic scale version of the Genesis device, given the number of planets with a vaguely humanoid body plan (based on the recording in The Chase, it could be inferred that they are responsible for all of that type of life).

^^^oh, another thing - who is to say that that is the only Progenitor tech he found or hid, not to mention that, setting aside the actual "life" tech, the ancillary technology such as delivery, targeting, and such could be analyzed and provide massive leaps in capabilities after studying it to anyone acquiring it.

Why didn't he just bury the Progenitor tech somewhere where it would stay hidden forever? Why leave out all these clues as to where to find it, if it's so dangerous?

[quote]Why didn't he just bury the Progenitor tech somewhere where it would stay hidden forever? Why leave out all these clues as to where to find it, if it's so dangerous?

The ending of the TNG episode has the Romulan hopeful that one day they would come together.

Also, as a scientist, destroying such valuable tech would be an anathema. He likely hoped that by the time his puzzle was solved, the galaxy would be a vastly different place where the various races would have come together as the Progenitors wanted. Remember, it appears he died suddenly before all his preparations had been completed.

If the Progenitors were so advanced... where are they now? Why did they all die out long ago?

[quote]If the Progenitors were so advanced... where are they now? Why did they all die out long ago?

Nothing lasts forever.

I've always thought that at some point some hack writer would eventually imply that the Progrenitors became the Q.

What's also possible is that they ascended in the same manner as the Organians or various other non-corporeal races like the Zetarians or TNG: The Survivors being Kevin.

^^^oh, another possibility is that they did something similar to what the Asgard did in Stargate and essentially brought about their own extinction.

Well, while you are at it connecting dots: Why did the TNG progenitor look like the female Founder from DS9? Coincident? I think not.

[quote]Well, while you are at it connecting dots: Why did the TNG progenitor look like the female Founder from DS9? Coincident? I think not.

For the exact same reason that Shran, Weyoun, and Brunt, FCA look the same, I'd guess.

^ Yes, let's weave a story around that, too.

r42 I looked up this question right after the episode and found a possible answer on the Daystrom Institute subreddit.

[quote]The Progenitor aliens in “The Chase” seeded many worlds, resulting in the common phenotype of aliens seen in Trek. One of those planets was the Changeling home world. The Changelings developed their ability to mimic, but retained an instinctual memory of their progenitor species. This is why various Changelings default to a similar bipedal form and facial structure.

[quote]The Female Changeling goes a step further, cultivating an appearance as close to the instinctual memory as possible. This would be psychologically helpful for a leader to appear more like a figure from the shared consciousness.

[quote]Alternatively, the Changelings are an ancient enough species that they encountered The Progenitors while they were still alive, and that contact became the template their collective memory uses for "generic solid".

All speculation of course, but still better than nothing.

[quote]Alternatively, the Changelings are an ancient enough species that they encountered The Progenitors while they were still alive, and that contact became the template their collective memory uses for "generic solid".

The recording from The Chase specifically states that the Progenitors did not encounter any other life, so they did not encounter the Changelings - although I suppose you could make an argument that the encounter occurred when the Changelings were in such a primordial state that the Progenitors did not classify them as sentient lifeforms, but the Changelings somehow "remembered" them.

Yes, that was one of the arguments put forth in that same discussion.

Episode 3 was a complete filler episode.

I guess they had to save money from all the effects in the first two episodes.

Yeah, the chase for the missing puzzle pieces is boring, I preferred Saru's Federation business.

It made me laugh when the new Number One (name?) gave everyone only twenty seconds to speak and Rhys still spoke more than in any other episode to date. Problem with this show in a nutshell, i.e. non-Michael POC characters are used mainly for set decoration.

I can already see them destroying the Progenitor tech in the end, was telegraphed when Stamets said that it can destroy life as much as create it. They should bring back the Xindi-Avians from extinction before they destroy it, though.

[quote]I can already see them destroying the Progenitor tech in the end, was telegraphed when Stamets said that it can destroy life as much as create it.

Stamets also specifically noted that it could bring back someone who died.

How he'd know that from scans of the tech is questionable. Such advanced technology would take years if not decades of study from teams of scientists and specialists to figure out. I mean, they spent years studying the "artifact" borg cube and hadn't even begun to unlock all its tech.

Side bar - I am hoping that they don't decide that the Progenitors created the Doomsday Machine and that its original purpose was something wholly different than a weapon.

[quote] Stamets also specifically noted that it could bring back someone who died.

That is probably the most trite plot device in Star Trek I can think of. They pretty much did that in every show at least once. Now do it one more time for Jadzia Dax and then never again. Just to annoy Rick Berman. Thank you!

Ha, I loved Jadzia. One of my favourite characters in the franchise. She had such a joie de vivre.

I haven’t seen episode 3 but I really enjoyed the first two. I’ve always enjoyed Discovery more than most. Maybe because I tend to sympathise with the underdog. It’s certainly not perfect but I did enjoy the first couple of seasons when everyone seemed to hate it.

I love Rayner. The show lost something when Michelle Yeoh’s character left. This ensemble really needs an absolute bastard, which we got with Lorca, then the Empress and now with Rayner. I’m here for it.

Yes, Rayner provides great contrast (juxtaposition, even) to the constant lovefest on that ship.

I also was a bigger fan than most of the first couple of seasons. But then came the third one and I noticed the writers doubling down on not giving any of the bridge crew any kind of character development whatsoever, and something snapped inside me. It's Michael's world, we're all just living in it. Whatever, we have SNW (for now) as a course-correction to that kind of approach. As for Discovery, I'm just enjoying the visuals and the ship porn and the action aspect of it.

Five seasons too many.

I think there was a conceptual error right from the start. They wanted less screen time for the captain and more for Michael (not planned as becoming captain) and other ranks. So while more main characters were spread throughout the entire ship, the action was still on the bridge where they had only one or two main characters. Inevitably there was a lot of extras on the bridge with hardly any purpose. In hindsight they could have created some sort of decentralized ship design where the bridge only requires two officers and no-one else. But that's 20/20.

Rayner is okay. Not as interesting as Lorca.

The actor reminds me of the actor they cast as Trip and T'Pol's son on Enterpise - who really looked like what an older version of their son might have looked.

Boring third episode. The Adira/Gray story is so dull; thankfully, it seems to be over (for now). Tilly is annoying as hell, too.

I don't really understand the "filler episode" and "boring" comments to be honest. There was nothing "filler" about it, it was directly connected to the main plot and furthered it. And it certainly wasn't dull.

Sigh.

Lower Decks is ending after its next season.

SNW did get an S4 confirmed.

Mixed bag.

[quote]Lower Decks is ending after its next season.

Well, that sucks. I wish Netflix would pick it up like they did Prodigy.

Also, no word on Legacy, yet. I've been putting all my eggs into the one basket that they haven't announced Legacy because they want all the focus on Discovery's final season. I'm hope that they'll make the Legacy announcement right after the Disco series finale.

I'm just hoping the Section 31 movie does well, because that might give them an opening to make more TV movies, which I'd be fine with. I think I remember reading that it came in under budget, so that's encouraging.

The reason it still happened was apparently that Michelle Yeoh, even with her post-EEAAO career boost, really wanted it to still get made.

I’m one of the few people that don’t want “Legacy” as it was pitched. I like Seven but don’t like Raffi, find Picard’s nepo son annoying and the LaForge daughters dull as dishwasher. The ship is ugly and barely visible it’s so dim. They’d have to overhaul the characters at the very least to interest me. Really not sure why fans salivate over the producer of that show.

[quote] Michelle Yeoh, even with her post-EEAAO career boost, really wanted it to still get made.

I was surprised about that. After that project being up in the air for so long, I would have understood if she had just showed Paramount the finger and moved on. (I wonder if The Brothers Sun was axed partially because she wanted to move on from that.)

[quote]I was surprised about that. After that project being up in the air for so long, I would have understood if she had just showed Paramount the finger and moved on. (I wonder if The Brothers Sun was axed partially because she wanted to move on from that.)

I think she really likes playing Philippa. If the movie really did come in under budget, it means she probably didn't make the kind of pay increase the Oscar might have entitled her to.

I was very disheartened when Section 31 changed from a series to a movie, actually. But maybe there's just not enough story to fill a series? I would think it would make a great basis for an episodic series, actually, but what do I know?

Yeesh. Episode four was pointless. Only six episodes left, and the season feels like it just started. An episode like this would be fine for "Next Gen" or "Voyager" since there would still be 20+ more episodes in the season, but with only 10 episodes to work with, Discovery needs to stop spinning its wheels.

I thought the latest ep was thoroughly enjoyable and quintessentially Trek right down to the copious technobabble.

[quote]Yeesh. Episode four was pointless. Only six episodes left, and the season feels like it just started. An episode like this would be fine for "Next Gen" or "Voyager" since there would still be 20+ more episodes in the season, but with only 10 episodes to work with, Discovery needs to stop spinning its wheels.

I moderately enjoyed it and liked seeing Airiam again - I wish they had done more with her. Her death in S2 was one of the better done story arcs. However, we've seen this already - the episode was essentially VOY S7E11: Shattered and S5E07: Relativity.

The shoutout to the Krenim was underwhelming and forced.

I liked the shoutout to the Kremin, personally. The episode was okay, but I also wished they had done more with Airiam. They basically fridged her back then because they needed a noble death and didn't want to sacrifice an actual human character.

Got angry when I saw animated Bryce – so NOW you give him some personality, two seasons after he's left the show? Oh, what could have been if they hadn't focused on Michael Sue and her endless speeches so much.

R26, thanks so much for your ranking of the seasons. I started watching season 1 but it didn’t really hook me. If I were to start watching the seasons out of order, would they still make sense? Or do I need to slog through season 1 to get to the better seasons?

Just watch them in order and have it on in the background in case you tune out. The first two are so much fun and then it gets all serious and earnest starting with the third one.

Making a prediction on the story arc. Mal and Book will try to use Progenitor’s tech to bring back their lost homeworld

[quote]Making a prediction on the story arc. Mal and Book will try to use Progenitor’s tech to bring back their lost homeworld

Redemption arc: Mal intends to do it, but it's Book who stops her. Listen to all the dialog from Book about making amends and doing the right thing.

ICYMI, the physique of Dr. Culber (Wilson Cruz). There was a joke about that in Episode 3 when the Trill took over Dr. Culber's body.

Cruz looks reasonably bulgy.

One day, I'll take leave of my senses and hit Wilson Cruz up on Scruff.

So now Rayner has Michael’s override code after she punched it in to his wrist tech during one of the time jumps. His comment earlier in the episode about his way of doing things being better makes me think he won’t use this info for good later on.

I've loved this series from the start and I am sorry to see it go, but I have to say how much I adore Saru and the President together. I'm glad they are giving them this storyline as Doug Jones has been remarkable in his psychical acting. The way he moves his hands while walking is just so graceful. I'm glad they are letting Saru find happiness.

Eve Harlow's character Moll is too similar to her character from "The Night Agent." In the latest episode, even the story beats involving Moll seemed similar to that other show.

I hate that they showed the Breen under the masks, and they turned out to be just another alien of the week. That Moll can live easily without the suit seems wrong. Sort of wrecks the mystique of the Breen.

Also, the Breen make Andorians look like denizens of tropical resorts. The suits are supposed to be more than for atmosphere, but also climate control due to their need for cold.

Looks like "Discovery" got to borrow the sets from "Strange New Worlds" for an episode.

I didn't like the Breen reveal, either. The Moll and Lak backstory was kind of dull and cliché.

The Breen weren’t just another alien of the week though. They are partly liquid, or unformed. Unless they force themselves to adopt a solid form as Lak did. This maybe helps explain why they allied themselves with the Founders and why the Founders favoured them over their other allies. Both non-solid but can assume solid form. This episode actually fleshed out the Breen whereas DS9, which I otherwise loved, kept pushing the mystery angle with no intention of ever revealing it. They actually just annoyed me on DS9 but here I was quite interested by them.

Moll's vocal fry is horrendous.

Perhaps they'll all have one big last cry and chat about their feelings for the entire finale.

I wish the show has spent more time on Detmer, Rhys, and Owosekun. Past ST shows would’ve done that which is one of the issues I have with The Michael Burnham Show. I enjoyed some episodes but all in all, I won’t miss Discovery.

I recently re-watched all seasons of Discovery to prepare for the final season, and oh Nelly were there some stinkers. And I've taken to yelling "There's no hugging in Starfleet!" every time there're are maudlin emotional scenes. It has scared the dog.

[quote] I wish the show has spent more time on Detmer, Rhys, and Owosekun.

Why? What makes you think they’re especially interesting? Although they couldn’t be worse than Adira. I like most the rest of the main cast and miss Saru.

That's a weird way to look at it. These characters don't actually exist out there, it's on the writers to bring them into the forefront and make them interesting.

I'm so tired of the trope of younger officers like Wesley and Adira are being presented as unprofessional bumbling aspie idiots.

Adira annoys me. The show didn’t need her.

I couldn't get through the last episode. The main story on the planet wasn't interesting to me at all. Michael needs to save the planet? Oooh, tell me more. No, I don't care about those people. But Michael seems to, so I surely want to know how it ends. Adira being nervous about an assignment - Didn't we do that a couple times with Tilly in the first and second season. Speaking of Tilly and the mop she is wearing this season.

The show is pretty visually ambitious, but I have no idea why the writing isn't.

[quote]Adira annoys me. The show didn’t need her.

Or Blue. Adding them was pure pandering in an effort to draw a new audience by people who don't actually understand the audience they were trying to interest.

Pre-warp civilization. Check.

Mustn't violate Prime Directive. Check

Violate Prime Directive. Check

Ugh. Episode six was boring. It was typical "Star Trek," but it felt lifeless. The season-long search plot has all the elements to be interesting, but the way it's unfolding isn't very engaging.

One of my favorite episodes of the series is the second one from season three. That was the one that featured everyone but Michael Burnham, after the U.S.S. Discovery arrived in the future and she didn’t show up until the last few minutes of the episode.

The Academy needs to offer some calorie controlled meals and regular exercise classes. Don’t they Tilley?

R96 I guess they didn't have fitness requirements back then.

We're supposed to buy that potato Tilley won an endurance race? Pull the other one.

R98 Endurance at the dessert bar, maybe.

Would think that Ozempic would be perfected in the 32nd century.

I'm not that hung-up about Tilly's weight. I admit her hairdo is distracting this season. Overall though I consider Mary Wiseman one of the better actors on the show, along with Callum Keith Rennie and the always reliable Doug Jones.

Currently I'm zoning in on Anthony Rapp. Isn't he considered an accomplished theater actor? Why is he phoning it in on this show? The cadence in his speech always makes him sound like a valley girl in a bad multicam sitcom.

[quote]Currently I'm zoning in on Anthony Rapp. Isn't he considered an accomplished theater actor? Why is he phoning it in on this show?

What I find so strange about Discovery and most of Trek is that shows like Grey's Anatomy and 9-1-1 can consistenly find decent actors for ensemble casts, yet Trek always seems to struggle filling out the roster.

It's not like people were tuning in to see Rapp - the overlap between the B'way fans and Trek fans is probably limited. Even if you wanted to hire a gay actor for the role, tell me you couldn't find someone else - I mean, you can't shake a tree in Hollywood without a parrot falling out of one.

[quote]I'm not that hung-up about Tilly's weight.

I like Mary Wiseman a lot, and if she's happy in her body, more power to her. But I also remember back in the first season, she was curvy but not so big, and she looked really good. When they did the whole Captain Killy bit and straightened her hair, she was gorgeous.

That is true. She was indeed.

I love Mary Wiseman, she’s charming and adds a lot of heart and soul to her scenes. I actually like the Discovery cast although I still miss Jason Isaacs and Michelle Yeoh. The one character I find is a bit, pointless nonentity is Adira. It’s just such an uninteresting character, I don’t know why she hasn’t been fleshed out or jettisoned.

Anyone else notice the "woke" dialog that was on display in this recent episode? "They" usage everywhere when talking about a character that was CLEARLY a female (the dude's daughter with the butchy hair). "They" this, "they" that. I cannot believe we are living in a time when women are being erased even in fiction.

R106, before Burnham and Tilly beamed to the planet, the Discovery crew discussed the pre-industrial civilization's language, mentioning its recognition of three distinct genders. While the episode didn't go into further detail, it seemed fairly clear that Ravah's gender corresponded to "they/them" in Standard.

Yes, r107. Also ridiculous and too fucking woke.

[quote]in Standard.

It's funny how not ony English, but American English, is Standard.

How do Spanish and other languages that have masculine and feminine deal with this currently, I wonder (okay, I don't really wonder, nor even really care).

R106 Kind of late to the party - ST:Diversity has been woke as hell from the get-go.

What didn't make sense is they kept saying, "His daughter." "Your daughter" but then everyone just referred to her as they/them. I mean, at least be consistent with your stupid pronouns.

I don’t have a problem with non-binary people beyond my intense hatred of the term “they” to refer to a singular person. It makes no grammatical sense. I wish they could come up with an alternative word.

^ Thank you, r112! Exactly what I am thinking. Wouldn't it technically need to say: "They is late"? I am advocating for a new pronoun.

Anyway... back to Star Trek. I wonder what Klingon culture looks like in the 31st century.

Bryan Fuller has exited another show he was supposed to run. What is wrong with him? He did such great work on VOY, but I guess as showrunner he has challenges.

He's brilliant, but apparently difficult in some way.

I’m guessing Fuller is maybe BPD or something. Or maybe just bipolar, he goes all in on something then becomes useless and has to be fired.

[quote]He's brilliant, but apparently difficult in some way.

Without diagnosing him with no examination, his quick departures suggest this is probably true.

From panels and intereviews, he strikes me as one of those people with a million great ideas. But, he lacks the detail orientation or focus to edit and cull to anything that is actually implementable, and worse, leaves it to other people to try to cobble together his ideas into something workable, then throws a tantrum when they can't.

So L'ok died. Psychic residue on someone's metal Amex saves the day. Stupid show.

R118 not really any more stupid than any other Star Trek. You need a huge suspension of disbelief to even believe in basic things like transporters.

That was ... better than previous episodes. But not by much. This season just isn't doing it for me. The Breen dreadnought looked pretty cool, though.

Every time Michael says, "Black Alert", I snap my fingers.

Is that racist?

I think one of the reasons I didn't get emotionally invested in Moll and L'ok's relationship is because of L'ok's makeup. There was simply too much plasticine on his face to allow for much emoting, which made it difficult to relate or care about him. Since Moll's character had to be the tough one, L'oks character had to do the heavy-lifting to be the emotional core showing his conflict over his role with the Breen and his love for Moll. Sure, the script said these things, but you have to see it in his face to really connect, and you couldn't because of the mask.

As a result, his sacrifice and death just played flat under the swelling emotional score.

R121 MmmMMMmmm gurl, can we have a blaaack alert, y’all?!

This show has its moments but all in all, I will not miss it much when it’s gone.

From IMDb:

[quote] When Burnham is trapped within a "mindscape" designed to test her worthiness to retrieve the Progenitor's powerful technology, Book, Rayner and the crew of the U. S. S. Discovery must hold off the Breen long enough for her to escape.

Another Burnham centric episode with main co-star Book. I’ll be glad when this show is gone. Hopefully the next ST show will have a more ensemble cast like SNW and the ST shows from the late 80s and early 2000s.

Please kill Michael. Please God

r126, I would be SHOCKED if that happened.

I guess they’ll reunite Burnham and Book by the series finale because they’re predictable like that. I’m hoping they kill him off.

Killing someone off doesn't mean they are gone. Star Trek, but esp. DSC, have this habit to make death a mere disruption for plot reason. By the end of the episode they'd be alive again.

I think Labyrinth was the worst episode of Trek I've ever seen.

I hope they were trying to save money for an amazing finale by giving us this craptastic bottle episode.

I enjoyed this a lot more than the previous two episodes. Rhys in the captain's chair... oh, my. No one has ever looked cuter sitting in that chair than him and that's a scientific fact.

You'd think they'd have wrung all trauma out of Michael after five seasons but nope... there's still lots of it left. How one person can contain so much trauma is beyond me.

That place was less "archive and gallery" and more "library and museum", but I won't quibble since the writers probably don't come from any of those fields. Interesting how so many species use the codex form to record their information, lol. I get it, it's easier on the VFX guys.

I would have loved to know more about Rhys, with his cute ass self. We had five fucking seasons to know more about him and a few others but, again, The Burnham and Book Show.

Rhys in the captain's chair was great, and he proved himself competent. Raynor continues to be the smartest person in the room, but since he doesn't cry or whisper all his lines or talk about his feelings for an hour, he's treated as crazy.

All the stuff with the Breen in this last episode was silly. Moll kills the leader and his subordinates just shrug and immediately follow her? Ugh.

So many stupid things happen in this show because they need to happen to move the plot forward. Terrible writing.

The best of the current Trek is Lower Decks. SNW is good, but they're really drifting by introducing Scotty on top of Uhura and Kirk. The endgame for SNW seems like assembling the entire ToS crew onto the Enterprise.

In retrospect, the only reason Season 3 of Picard was so good was as a relative statement compared to S1 and S2.

And still, no word on Star Trek: Legacy or whatever it turns out to be called if it goes forward - the show that everyone wants. Yet, they're gung-ho to go with the Starfleet 90210 that nobody wants.

R134 I agree that Lower Decks is the best of the current Treks. For me, I think I "vibe" with it so much because it feels most like the Star Trek I grew up with despite the humor and animation. Honestly, I'm not overly impressed with SNW. For me, it's partly the lack of characterization (similar to my issues with Discovery) and I feel like the episodic approach doesn't work as well when you're only doing 10 episodes a season.

I really think Picard should never have been made. The first two seasons were dreadful (particularly season 2). Season 3 was good mostly because of it's bringing back the TNG cast which is what many fans had wanted since 2002. Honestly, season 3 should've just been a one off mini-series.

I think Legacy is going to happen but in movie form. That's what Kurtzman and Stewart have been somewhat hinting at in recent months, though it will probably only be green-lit if the Section 31 movie is successful. The Academy series is likely being moved forward because it's meant to draw a younger audience into Trek but the current fan base is really not interested in it.

SNW isn't bad. For my taste it's rehashing too much of what has already been done. But SNW's season two had some great episodes though. My personal favorite was the court room drama about Number One. I thought that hit a high note in terms of drama.

About Picard's season 1 and 2: I appreciate that they tried. Those two seasons felt like they were aiming really high in terms of writing and the drama, but then got frazzled and couldn't pull it off.

R135 Lower Decks just feels like animated fan-fiction to me. If it were taken just as a parody, I think that would be fine, but being even quasi-canon just makes it seem cheesy and stupid to me.

R137 agreed, I’m not a fan of Lower Decks. I just cannot believer it’s meant to be taken seriously as a canon series. I cannot for the life of me stomach Mariner, she’s insufferable.

[quote] I cannot for the life of me stomach Mariner, she’s insufferable.

Same here! I watched the first season and the DS9 featured episode but that’s it. I can only do so much of that fast paced Simpsons type animated comedy and Mariner is absolutely insufferable.

The program had to look like Book. Just because.

R140 that’s just what they do with those “mindscape” episodes. I’m not a fan of them. They used to do them a lot in the 90’s shows. Probably because they could use existing sets and actors, making it cheaper. At least they had a rather cool set in this one and didn’t simply have Burnham running about Discovery sets. At this point in the season though I found it a bit of a waste of time.

For the first time, I liked David Ajala in this episode. His performance was actually engaging, maybe because he didn't have to play a constantly battered character for once.

I have a soft spot for Book because I find David Ajala very sexy. Discovery has otherwise had a lack of hot guys. Although Vance is an attractive guy and Rayner would be too it weren’t for the ridiculous ears.

[quote] Rayner would be too it weren’t for the ridiculous ears.

Rayner reminds me of the actor they got to play T'Pol and Trip's son in Enterprise during the alternate timeline episode of the Xindi arc.

All three of them look like they could be related.

Raynor's ridiculous prosthetics look to me like a rodent ate into a Vulcan ear.

I'm definitely more engaged with this season than I was with the previous two which I didn't even make all the way through. I think the reduction to 10 episodes has helped to craft this season's arc better. I still think Season 2 was probably the best season of the show, but season 5 feels like they've found their footing but I agree that Burnham is overused at the expense of the rest of the cast, and it's sad that several of cast that could have used more screen time have basically disappeared this season. I wish this season had been season 3 and not the final season of the show.

Apparently, the Canadian actor playing Rhys is of Sino-Mauritian extraction. He's so pretty, I hope we see him in more stuff after this show. I just want to eat him all up!

Holly fucking Hunter is going to be the star of Starfleet Academy.

Mind, blown.

"Cadets! Step to the RAWIGHT!"

[quote] "Cadets! Step to the RAWIGHT!"

😂😂😂😂😂

[quote]"Cadets! Step to the RAWIGHT!"

I think yer the devil, R149.

Why the fuck did they change the helmsman and navigator? What in the hell happened to Lt. Detmer and Lt. Owosekun? We had opportunities to know more about them and, well. I won’t miss this show when it’s gone.

Nobody knows, R152. Or why they've left Saru, the best character of the show, out of most of the last season.

Who cares about these two when you can learn more about Michaeal r152 ?!

What could we possibly learn about Detmar and Owosekun? We already know that they throw skeptical looks at each other when the captain makes a gutsy decision. What more would you possibly want to know about them?

[quote]Why the fuck did they change the helmsman and navigator?

My bet is money. While they're probably not all that expensive, they're clearly blowing the budget on other things.

Why pay them when you can pay SAG minimum wage for actors.

This is what I like to imagine Rhys would say after I dropped trou.

According to Doug Jones, he was written out of a number of episodes this season to accommodate the fact he was doing promotion for Hocus Pocus 2. As for Detmar and Owosekun, as R156 states, it may have been due to budget cuts. Season 3 of Picard (which filmed just a few months before DISCO S5) had its budget cut and I'm guessing Discovery did too. But I can't believe that the two actresses playing Detmar and Owosekun made much more than scale. They were not principle cast. The other option is that the two were working on other projects. I believe they are on an episode by episode contract which means they are not prevented from looking for other roles. The cutie who played Bryce left the show after the 3rd season because he got a leading role on another show.

Are Canadian actors even covered by SAG? I remember reading recently there were some changes introduced in that regard, to cut down on exploitation.

R159 No, Canadian actors are members of ACTRA.

I guess I misremembered – no new rules per se, just a better labour deal.

r160 Thanks!

I know I'm hating, but it pisses me off that Kurtzman and Paramount didn't take the opportunity to keep Terry Matalas in the franchise. Akiva Goldsman get his own show. Michelle Paradise for some reason was allowed to continue her hack job. But there was no role for Matalas? Hard to believe. Maybe Kurtzman was jealous? Good for Marvel, I guess.

Akiva Goldsman and Paradise are probably long-time pals of Kurtzman who seems to have learned his ways from Jar Jar Abrams who always hires friends and people he has or wants to bang.

Matalas and the guy who does Lower Decks, Mike McMahan, both have a better sense of what makes Star Trek Star Trek.

The others are just creating bad fan fiction.

R162 There have been rumors that there is some professional tension between Matalas and Kurtzman. Allegedly, the budget for season 3 was cut and Matalas has to fight tooth and nail to get the season made the way that he wanted it to be made. Added to that allegedly (again) Kurtzman was less than thrilled with the critical and fan response to Matalas being the "savour of Trek." Basically, Kurtzman not wanting competition from a producer loved by the fans and a the person behind the most critical successful season of modern Trek, has frozen Matalas out of any further Trek shows. Too bad because fans clearly want Legacy more than a Starfleet Academy show or a Section 31 movie.

[quote]dded to that allegedly (again) Kurtzman was less than thrilled with the critical and fan response to Matalas being the "savour of Trek." Basically, Kurtzman not wanting competition from a producer loved by the fans and a the person behind the most critical successful season of modern Trek

Fortunately, if Trek keeps flailing, Paramount is not going to sit back and let it. At some point, with any luck, Paramount will decide it's time to reboot and find new leadership for Trek, just as Warner did with the DCEU.

I really REALLY don't like the actress playing Moll.

Wild episode.

In the 32nd century, they have reprogrammable matter (whatever that is), so why are crew members welding things? What happened to those robots that repair the ship?

Discovery lands next to two black holes and the gravitational pull doesn't instantly rip the ship apart?

The Breen has more advanced technology than Starfleet/Federation, but they couldn't detect non-Breen were on board their ship? And how did the translators in the suits know when to translate what the disguised crew was saying and when not to?

Moll is ... awful. The writing is bad. Eve Harlow comes across as a high school student in her first play.

The worst part: Michael and Book are working against time to complete their mission, but that's not going to stop Michael from taking the time to talk about her feelings.

As always, Rayner was the only competent one. Rhys did a good job, though.

[quote]Rhys did a good job, though.

We've had a lady captain, a black male captain, and a black lady captain. I think it might finally be the time for...

[quote]...but that's not going to stop Michael from taking the time to talk about her feelings.

No, to whisper about her feelings.

So it appears Oyin Oladejo (Owosekun) was shooting a movie called Orah at the same time season 5 of DSC was filming and likely explains why she was written out. Not sure about Emily Coutts (Detmer).

R112, "They" as a singular pronoun has existed for centuries and isn't anything new. Get over yourself. You don't know as much as you think you do.

Anthony Rapp can't act for shit. I can't stand him. In this, or in anything I've ever seen him in.

R172, I'm still pissed at him for ruining the last season House of Cards.

R171, I think you are missing a couple aspects and a friendly attitude. Happy to discuss, Meet me outside, maybe in another thread.

I have a feeling that this series finale is going to be so fucking hokey. I won’t miss this show.

I'm having a feeling it will end with a voice over from Burnham that will address the sense of family within the DSC's crew even if not together.

I believe you mean whisper-over

Holly Hunter is a great addition to Trek but I have a feeling her appearances will be brief. Can't cut into that Tilly time.

Tilly will be the new Burnham.

We may never see a male lead again (Pike and Spock are only there because of canon).

R179 and that's a bad thing? Not sure what your point is here.

[quote][R179] and that's a bad thing? Not sure what your point is here.

Not r179.

But, don't be ridiculous.

While Trek fans want well-written characters and stories, the overwhelming majority of Trek fans are still straight white men. Why would you suppose that Trek fans desire to see people "like themselves" any less than any other group.

I believe that Sonequa Martin Green got hosed by bad writing. She's given us tantalizing glimpses of what could have been one of the best Trek captains. I am fully in favor of Legacy led by Seven of Nine. Admiral Vance is a great addition that most people love.

But, the idea that Trek should run from straight men is ridiculous.

R181 The writing sucked and it never had a Trek feel to it. There was just no good reason why so many of the crew were conspicuously incompetent and emotionally unstable. There are supposed to be people who made it through elite training (and psych screening) just to be on the ship in the first place. But no, we have to have a good cry about our feelings on a regular basis. And of course, it being the Michael Burnham Show didn't help either.

The only good ST series since Paramount started producing new ones is "Strange New Worlds," which is wonderful. Almost all the characters are first rate: pike is a little dull, and the Überdyke character isn't very charming, but they're more than made up for by the superb actors playing Spock, Uhura, M'Benga, Chapel, and Sam Kirk.

"Discovery": Too elaborate, too many boring and confusing alternative timeline stories, no interesting central hero/heroine. Also, the mycological stardrive idea was absolutely ridiculous.

"Picard": Too many characters with substance abuse problems, too many planets that looked like Northern California redwood groves, plus the TNG crew just did not look good after all those decades.

"The Lower Decks": Too manic and pitched to hyperactive teenagers.

[quote] "Picard": Too many characters with substance abuse problems, too many planets that looked like Northern California redwood groves, plus the TNG crew just did not look good after all those decades.

What REALLY annoy me about the Picard series finale was making Seven of Nine's ex lover Raffi her First Officer. Considering how combustible their relationship was, that is a really bad Starfleet HR situation waiting to happen. It just came off as a bit too hokey for Star Trek. I love Michelle Hurd but I'm not interested in a Star Trek: Legacy series if they don't change that.

Unfortunately, they'll probably put Burnham and Book together in the same sort of way in the Discovery series finale this week.

[quote] "The Lower Decks": Too manic and pitched to hyperactive teenagers.

Mariner is for me, the most ANNOYING Star Trek character ever created. My main reason for stopping to watch regularly after the first season.

[quote] Mariner is for me, the most ANNOYING Star Trek character ever created.

Thanks, I guess!

R185 At least people actually could tell him to shut up, and he wasn't crying all over the place. Also, he was more professional that most of the Discovery bridge crew.

Just wait until Jack finds out how often Crushers get taken to pound town on those ships!

AGREE r186! Hating on Wesley Crusher has become so tired. I didn’t find his character annoying at all.

Wesley was fine once he started wearing an actual uniform, rather than the grey jumpsuit.

However, once he joined the space sorcerers, he returned to silly.

There's something innately annoying about wunderkinds. I prefer to watch average people who are really good at their job, but still have to work hard at it, preferably together as a collective.

"But no, we have to have a good cry about our feelings on a regular basis."

The world would be better off if we all did this.

And yes, I'm serious.

R190 The Borg?

R191 Not in the military - nope.

There would be no need for a military if more people were empathetic and attuned to others, r193. Instead, we teach our soldiers to blindly follow orders, to kill other human beings, and to suck it up when they have horrendous mental damage from serving in wars.

Yeah, that's healthy.

Wars are the shame of humanity. If humans were in touch with our feelings, we would be kinder to each other and the need for a military would be far less than this giant human soul sucking entity we have today.

R194 You type frau.

You type masculine.

Ah posts like this are why I come to DL. I do wonder how much that first season of Discovery cost. I for one liked jt-really enjoyed the darkness and Lorca and never really bought the Burn and jump to the future. I think the cast deserves better.

The like about Picard looking to Northern California…very funny and ao true.

R194 If more people were blah blah blah, but they aren't and it is in any case entirely irrelevant to the fact that the major of the Discovery officers are portrayed as undisciplined and overly emotional. They are walking crybaby bags of incompetence, largely so that Michael Burnham can "stand out" as being the best at absolutely everything - including being overly emotional.

R198 MARY! You sound like the crybaby here. If you don’t like it don’t watch it. I quit watching Voyager, Enterprise and Lower Decks. I just didn’t like them but I don’t feel the need to whinge about their shortcomings.

You're no fun, R199.

R199 Feel free to fuck off. If you don't like a comment, then don't read it, dumbass.

So anyway. Raynor has been the highlight of the season. It's kind of a shame he was added so late to the series, because his gruff personality is a great contrast to Michael and the rest of the crew's warm and fuzzy approach. I hope he shows up in the Academy series on occasion to tell Tilly to fuck off.

Is it actually confirmed that Mary Wiseman has been cast? I'm assuming that she has, but I don't believe there was an official statement. In theory there could still be Ro/Kira like switcheroo, right?

There's always time for Ozempic.

[quote] If you don't like a comment, then don't read it, dumbass.

How do you know if you like a comment UNTIL you read it? Jesus Christ, you’re calling ME a dumbass?!

Girls, girls...

[quote]Feel free to fuck off.

[quote]Jesus Christ, you’re calling ME a dumbass?!

Mmmh... I find you both sooo sexy right now.

R205 Exactly. And you're a blocked dumbass now - peace!

Good not great finale. As predicted, Michael destroyed the Progenitors' technology since it was too powerful. Although exactly what the technology was remained kind of a mystery. Still, Discovery separating the saucer section from the engine section to end the Breen battle was a nice nod to Next Gen.

Kovich being Daniels from Enterprise was the only unexpected twist. Everything else was predictable. Of course, Michael and Book would end up together. The flash-forward was filmed after the show was canceled; the original ending was Michael and Book on the beach.

So that's it for Discovery. It was never a truly great show. Most of the time, it was an exercise in missed opportunities. The plots were good, but the execution was often clunky or unsatisfying. The writers never seemed to know what to do with the show. Discovery's legacy will likely just be restarting the franchise and leading to the creation of the vastly superior Strange New Worlds.

And crying. Lots and lots of crying.

It was a solid season finale and underwhelming series finale.

Kovich being Daniels was an unearned attempt at a fanboy moment. If they were going to draw from Enterprise, it should have been the shadowy guy communicating with the Suliban - although many people have theorized that that is future Archer (I don't subscribe). I can see Kovich manipulating events in that manner. However,Kovich should have been a Soong-type Android "descendent" of Data - one of the ones like Soji - or at least a transferred consciousness like Picard into an android body.

[quote]Most of the time, it was an exercise in missed opportunities.

This sums it up rather nicely. It could have been more and done so much more than it did.

Yeah, that final scene with everyone on the bridge – including Owo and Detmer, who apparently couldn't make it to Saru's wedding – would have hit A LOT harder if they hadn't made this into The Michael Burnham Show. Hopefully we never get a Trek like that again and instead continue with the tried-and-tested formula of giving the rest of the bridge crew equal time to shine.

There is something to be said about the writers sticking to their guns and not course correcting for five seasons. And of course they had to have a black Progenitor, as one last fuck you to everyone who's been complaining about SMG since the very first episode. That made me chuckle.

I was probably the show's number one fan here on DL when it first started out, but man what a missed opportunity the whole thing ended up being. Great visuals, though. For the most part – they started relying on the video wall a bit too much in the last two seasons.

Wow, thanks guys for spoiling it for everyone. At least give us a couple hours to watch it before you blurt it all out.

I never click on a show thread unless I'm all caught up. Especially not if it's a series finale! Sorry you got spoiled, but at least you'll be more careful going forward.

[quote]And of course they had to have a black Progenitor

The entire thing would have been worth it to see Salome Jens once again. The talked about the Dominion War when they were at the archive just makes it the more obvious.

Of course, she's almost 90 and hasn't done anything in 10 years. But, I would have lost my shit if it had been her.

R209 Discovery stealing from other Trek shows is anything but surprising.

I enjoyed it. I’ll actually miss the show.

Who's ready for Star Trek: Tilly?

[quote] Yeah, that final scene with everyone on the bridge – including Owo and Detmer, who apparently couldn't make it to Saru's wedding – would have hit A LOT harder if they hadn't made this into The Michael Burnham Show.

Excellent point r211! That’s been my main problem with the show. I won’t miss it.

The episode was primarily as the show has always been. Lots and lots and LOTS of talking/whispering, with Michael making absurd jumps of logic.

At least they gave Saru a bit.

I gotta say, the tagged on last 25 minutes were actually beautifully done. They are my favorite part of the episode, even if a little Hallmark-sappy maybe. Glad the show left on a high-ish note.

For Kovich I would have preferred to take the mystery to the Academy show to have something to look forward to. If this was it for Kovich I'd have to wonder, what was the point for him on DSC in the first place?

I kept waiting for Michael to give Michelle Yeoh's Captain Philippa Georgiou a shout out and it never happened. Guess she wasn't such an important part of her life after all.

The CGI was good. The story was meh. The acting was (mostly) bad.

I'll watch the Section 31 movie and maybe one episode of Starfleet 90210, for the laughs.

What an odd decision to have the handsome Gregory Calderone at r11 only feature in the premiere and in the finale. Maybe he'll be in the Starfleet Academy show, and they were backdoor pilot-ing his character in a way?

[quote]What an odd decision to have the handsome Gregory Calderone at [R11] only feature in the premiere and in the finale.

I don't even remember seeing him.

He was at the wedding reception with Tilly in a blink and you'll miss him shot. Doubt they'd drag him back just for this one scene if they had nothing else planned for him going forward.

[quote]Alex Kurtzman, who oversees the current 'Star Trek' franchise, discusses the series finale of 'Discovery' and what to expect from 'Starfleet Academy' and 'Section 31.'

It was a "that annoying fat girl can get a hot guy and you can do it to !" moment r225.

r227 Yeah, I wanted to add that that was exactly my impression as well, but forgot.

[quote]It was a "that annoying fat girl can get a hot guy and you can do it to !" moment [R225].

I was going to make a comment about her gay-faced husband, but then I remembered they divorced late last year.

They divorced? No way! And they had that dream wedding in 2019 with an annoying article written about it, flaunting his (parents') wealth in front of everyone. Oh, I am CACKLING right now. I know I shouldn't, but I am.

Btw, was I the only one who didn't buy the son as a captain? They both played the scene like he went to his first day of school. He looked way too insecure for playing somebody who can shoulder the responsibility for an entire crew. In my mind I compare the situation with Riker getting his first assignment as captain. And you know Riker was always very confident in everything he does. Admittedly, Riker was way overdue for captain, but still. This actor played it like he would become a cadet now, not a leader.

In the New York Times, no less. Fucking insufferable people.

[quote]They expect to live long, and, you know.

They will. Just, you know, separately.

r231 I got that same impression. Especially because of his "street" demeanour that took me out completely. I was like gurl, do you even know what show you're on right now? Michael also went a bit ghetto in her old age for some reason. I don't know, the whole thing was just crazy.

So ... if the Progenitors did not invent the tech, but merely found it and used it to create most of the sentient species we know today, we can assume that sentient life (in the Star Trek universe), does not occur naturally often. Life needs help.

We also know that the Progenitors are long gone, as most species will die out eventually for one reason or another (or move on ala Babylon 5).

Didn't Burnam just basically kill off all life in the galaxy long term?

Damn he got super ugly, and fat, too much to handle for Mary.

r235 Omg! And such horrible hair on both of them as well.

R234, probably yes, and not to mention the arrogance of throwing away priceless technology far beyond current understanding. Weak sauce excuse that any race capable of making it could make it again. Stupid show.

r234, I would read it like the progenitors spread seeds all over the galaxy. Somebody created one seed. That seed multiplied exponentially, and the progenitors just made sure that seeds would be everywhere. I don't see it from being much different from how life on earth was created. It starts with a random protein structure here and there, and after a couple millennia one of them develops to something more complex. So after four billion(!) years you have the complex life forms that you see on earth now. It doesn't take much in the beginning. It just takes a long time to develop.

According to TNG, the Progenitors seeded life across the galaxy so that it would form in the basic humanoid configuration - a bit of a retcon as to why all the aliens looks like humans with different ears, cranial ridges, or other minor differences, but nicely done. They also implied that the basic psychology of hopes, fears, love, desires, and dreams were also deeply embedded genetically.

They didn't just set it so that life would occur.

I've always chalked it up to convergent evolution as to why all spacefaring races have similar body configurations. If you're going to go to space, you need to develop speech, writing, mastery of fire, technology, etc. You'd think that that would dictate evolving similar body configurations.

Michael destroying the "Progenitor" technology is her throwing-the-diamond-off-the-ship moment.

Somebody please explain to me how the Breen became or stayed such an overpowering force in the galaxy. In this season I did not see one Breen who wasn't a complete idiot. Not one.

I surrendered to the bathos and bawled my head off for the final half hour of the program. For all the gay stuff that made the show appealing to me, that final half hour was a reassuring love letter to the viewers who tuned out in droves that, in the end, the traditional nuclear family endures.

Saru was the best thing about Discovery.

I don't understand why they created the lizard character dude on the bridge and then did absolutely nothing with him.

[quote] I don't understand why they created the lizard character dude on the bridge and then did absolutely nothing with him.

I’m guessing, for the same reason they created most of the bridge crew, that they hardly did anything with. One of the reasons Saru is my favorite character is because he had a great backstory and was just an all around wonderful character.

The only two people I would wish to see again in some capacity are Stamets and Saru.

Correction: I meant Rayner instead of Stamets.

I'd add Jett Reno to that list, R245. I was also fond enough of Adm. Vance and Dr. Kovich. that I'd like to see them developed further.

I forgot about Reno because frankly, they didn’t show enough of her this season. Definitely one of my favorite characters on the show.

I had high hopes for Lieutenant Linus the Saurian science officer, but they mainly used him as a joke character. I guess that's still better than using POC actors for background texture only, like they did with Bryce and others.

In lots of reviews and forums I read how disappointing Reno turned out to be because of Notaro's one-note performance. I think there is some truth to it, but it could have been remedied imho. Good direction could have tickled some nuances out of her performance. To my knowledge Notaro is not a professional actress, so some special guidance could have helped. Instead they probably just asked her to add the Notaro flavor and be done with it. To be honest, I'm not sure she had even one single episode with her own story. At least I don't remember. She was always a support character in other stories. Not even a B-story that centered around Reno. I understand Notaro's health added some uncertainty, but still. Her character was certainly a big missed opportunity.

Is Tilly actually popular? I don't understand why a show is being created around her.

It's kind of a stretch to say that Academy is being created "around" Tilly when we know she's not the star, and in fact, I don't think they've even announced any casting besides Holly Hunter. I mean, it's a fairly safe assumption that we'll see her, but that doesn't seem like the show they're setting up. I was reading an interview with Kurtzman about the reason for setting it in the 32nd century instead of the TNG-era (including into the early 25th century) is because we're going to be following a group of cadets at a time where the Federation has something of an uncertain future, given that they're still recovering from the Burn, rather than at a period of general peace and prosperity at the the height of the Federation.

That doesn't sound like the log line is "Tilly's Kids."

Does it bother folks that The Chase and now this entire season of Disco canonizes intelligent design in the Trek universe?

While I could let it slide for The Chase because the Progenitors evolved and created the tech, this season of Disco affirms that the Progenitors were "designed" by another intelligence.

As far as this galaxy goes, evolution didn't actually occur as a natural process, but life was "seeded" by an unknown intelligence.

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” -- Arthur C. Clarke

Yeah, they want to have their cake and eat it, too.

Speaking of magic, it was crazy to see this season how difficult problems now get solved within minutes. "Engineering, figure out how this unknown Breen tunnelling weapon works and find a solution within five minutes! You have ten minutes to spore-drive that colossal dreadnought out of here!" Not even pretending science is involved anymore. This is why I've always had such an issue with setting a Trek show in a (distant) future.

R252, it doesn't really bother me, since you still have to explain where the unknown intelligence came from. It's either turtles all the way down, or someone somewhere evolved abiogenetically.

I hated Stamets, mostly because I cannot stand the actor. He cannot act. I hate his "acting". In everything.

I think the biggest flaw with the show is how it never used its bridge crew. It never explored the relationships between them, and between them and the captain. To this day, it's hard for me to come up with the names of most of the characters beyond Michael Burnham, Tilly, and Saru.

And the TNG episode this season was based off of was a too-clever attempt to explain why everyone you met in TNG was humanoid with just different ears or noses or brow ridges. Because of low makeup and special effects budgets. That excuse doesn't really exist anymore (see Saurian crew member they created and then ignored). So doubling down on that seems like lazy writing.

And this series threw away the science from the start, so the "instant solutions" were annoying but also just par for the course at this point.

[quote] I think the biggest flaw with the show is how it never used its bridge crew.

I don’t get why some people are so incensed by this. They weren’t main characters any more than Ensigns Gates, Ragar, Mcknight and so on on TNG (and all the poor nameless sods who stood behind Worf). Discovery kept adding new characters - a lot of good ones too. I liked Vance, T’rina, Rillick, Reno and so on. Aside from the main cast the bridge crew were mainly day players. They may not have even had the acting chops for much more and nothing about them screamed “fascinating, I Must know more about this extra!” Maybe if they’d varied the actors people would have cared less.

Why waste time with the bridge crew when you have fascinating characters like Tilly, Stamets, Book, Adira and zyr ugly trans ghost ?

The show was always about Michael and her redemption arch. It was unique in the Star Trek universe because it really focused in on her and her growth. I personally enjoyed it. One of my major beefs about TNG was there were far too many episodes about Data and his "growth" but mostly because I hate Bret Spiner with a passion. Voyager also focused too much on 7 of 9 after she was introduced but in that case, she became the most interesting character on the show. Discovery was focused on Michael from day one and the people on the crew she adopted as her family. I didn't care to know every single crewman on the bridge. And I really hated the woke shit on the show, but it was nice to see a gay couple in Star Trek FINALLY.

The ending was not great, but not terrible. It was nice to see Michael come full circle. I do think Tilly is popular, although I'm not a big fan of hers. She's ok, just seems a bit out of place but I think that's the point of her character.

Adira is not fascinating.

I don't have a problem with it being about Burnham.

I do have a problem with all the time and effort wasted on uninteresting people like Adira and zyr.

They should have gone with a standard Trek focus on a core group of named cast - Burnham, Tilly, Stamets, Saru, Culber, Georgiou/Book. The problem is they made some side characters seem more important than they actually were - Detmer, Rhys, Owosekun, Reno. I get it that they didn't want to turn them into nameless redshirts. Either make them less important like Yeoman Rand, Chief Kyle, and the numerous people who sat at the ops or helm who never even got lines or names or make them more important.

Ultimately Adira was a waste of space but thankfully they didn’t waste too much time on her. They also seemed to forget she had a Trill symbiont in her. Potential for an interesting character but she was pretty useless. I’m glad she got sidelined.

I think part of the problem was the limited number of episodes and finding time for even the core cast to do things given that plot was primary to this style of storytelling. They could have done much better, but I still enjoyed characters like Saru, Raynor (wish he’d been around much longer), Tilly (unpopular opinion I know), Culber and Stamets back when he was a grumpy fuck. Reno was a scene stealer, I wish we’d seen much more of her but that was a result of Tig Norato’s health and busy schedule.

I’ll kinda miss the show. It got me interested in Trek again after nearly 2 decades.

The person playing Adira was a terrible actor, so sidelining that character was the best choice

R256 is missing the point. I'm talking about the characters that were equivalent to Chekov and Sulu on the bridge. TOS gave each of those characters not just moments but whole back stories and episodes to shine. The equivalent character on this show were in tons of episodes, but were complete cyphers. I can't remember ANY of their names.

Stamets is no McCoy and there was literally no Spock analogue because I guess Michael was already that. The thing that made TOS and TNG worked was the chemistry between the members of the crew, and the way we as the audience got to know ALL of them.

The only one they really gave that treatment to on Discovery was Saru. Which I LOVED.

I agree that servicing a huge cast in just 10 to 15 episodes per season was a huge task. I wouldn't have minded a reduced cast. But in my opinion even that wouldn't have resolved the problem that the writers couldn't write for characters. They couldn't write for Burnham or anyone else. Even Saru was boring like dish water in the last two seasons. What saved him was a solid back story and a extremely capable actor who elevated the material.

In DS9, they had the opposite 'problems'. They wrote side characters for guest stars and figured out that they were so interesting that they wrote more for them. Sometimes I wonder what the legacy writers from the TNG to VOY times think about the latest crop of Star Trek.

[quote]Sometimes I wonder what the legacy writers from the TNG to VOY times think about the latest crop of Star Trek.

It is perhaps hard to remember back this far, but it was a legacy writer who created Disco in the first place.

Off the subject, while I am somewhat loathe to mention this because I have to use the dreaded word "queer," but for the last few years, Marvel and DC Comics have published anthology comics for Pride about LGBT characters from LGBT writers and artists. This year, IDW, who is the current publisher of Star Trek comics also released a Star Trek Pride anthology, with stories about Kelvin Sulu, a pre-Enterprise Chapel and her girlfriend (who, gird ye loins, is trans), a fun romp with Stamets and Reno (set before Disco jumped in time), and Mariner and her girlfriend Jennifer having an adventure on Risa. Good stuff.

r265, thank you so much for the Star Trek pride anthology recommendation. I didn’t even know about this but I just purchased a digital copy to read on my iPad Kindle app.

The problem with Discovery being focused on Michael and not the crew around her is that Michael wasn't the most interesting of characters. She really was a Mary Sue. Every episode being centered on a character who always won and was always the smartest person in the room and was the only one who could save the galaxy is boring.

Totally agree r267!

R267 Yes, the writers really stuffed Burham down everyone's throat, basically saying that everything on the show and in the audience should love her because look how much better she is at everything than everyone else, including being Spock's more talented sister and so on. And if you don't like her, well, you must be a racist or a sexist or whatever.

Nope, writing sucks, character sucks, show sucks.

[quote] Michael wasn't the most interesting of characters. She really was a Mary Sue.

No, she wasn’t. She was a flawed character who made mistakes as was highlighted frequently. The entire setup of the first season was just how much she fucked up and the rest of the show was basically her trying to redeem herself and become better.

If you want a Mary Sue look at Janeway. The writers always painted her as being right, even when she was doing some extremely dubious, downright shitty things (I’ll never forget her marching Tuvix to his execution). Janeway was always above criticism and reproach because the writers had her as always being “right”. Her characterisation was also astoundingly inconsistent. One episode she’d rather she and her crew all die than violate the prime directive and then the next it’s “WHAT prime directive?” Oh, and they had her fucking a holographic Irish peasant but that was evidently ok and not at all icky because it was Janeway doing it. She could also be a sanctimonious cunt, too.

[quote]Oh, and they had her fucking a holographic Irish peasant but that was evidently ok and not at all icky because it was Janeway doing it. She could also be a sanctimonious cunt, too.

“Delete the wife!”

Seriously, Janeway wouldn’t turn the holodeck off to save the lives members of her crew because she didn’t want to erase her holographic dildo.

The shuttle Burnham took with her son to Discovery looked exactly like ths shuttles from The Orville.

I thought the same thing, R272. It just lacked the glowing blue.

I just binged series 5 today.

The Progenitors' knowledge of life and death was very reminiscent of the Red Angel's sphere. In one, the sphere data is sent far into the future, in the other, the Progenitor's portal is parked for eternity on a twinned black hole's event horizon. Saw it coming.

I liked the search for the Progenitors' Horcruxes, oh, wait, the QUEST. Some of the Labors of Burnham were interesting, but she always seems to pick the right next planet. The chick who played Moll was not a very good Bellatrix substitute. Jesse James Keitel would have been a better choice without a need for a smokey eye.

The only thing I hated was the 20-year jump into the future and Burnham turned in to Picard with a vineyard type of home. Fixing a fence seemed a bit twee. And did she go on a mission to remove Discovery/Zora from all influence by parking her in some galactic Walmart parking lot?

It was an ok thing to waste a day on.

The episode really didn’t need the extra sequences they filmed. Or they could have been released as a Short Trek extra or something. The closing scene on the beach with Burnham and Book would have sufficed nicely.

Yeah, it was very much a Peter Jackson set of endings.

The rescued second season of Star Trek: Prodigy is finally coming to Netflix on July 1st. Honestly, I can't wait, I love this show, it captures the spirit of Trek perfectly.

I liked the extra sequence in the future. It actually wanted me know more about that future.

Kurtzman stated numerous times that he wanted the jump to the distant future (32nd century) so that it was a clean slate that even new viewers could understand. And now he's also saying that this imperfect future is a great canvas to offer some guidance on how to tackle (today's) problems. Alas, DSC didn't take advantage of those opportunities which is a shame. There were so many topics that could have been addressed.

R277, well, sorta. The opening episode of Prodigy was such that I had to keep reminding myself it was Star Trek and not Star Wars. It didn't feel like Trek at all in that first episode. Of course, I had just watched The Bad Batch, but still, it seemed very "star-warsy" to me.

That's why I said spirit of Trek, not visuals of Trek.

I liked Prodigy until it got bogged down in becoming Voyager 2. I liked that the first half of the season was kind of its own thing and a bit Star Warsy

Also, those kids had too much personality to become boring Starfleet officers, at least the characterless kind we got on Voyager.

[quote]it captures the spirit of Trek perfectly.

There was an episode that was like a spiritual sequel to "A Piece of the Action," where the Protostar kids found a planet where one of Kirk's crew had crashed, and the people living there had basically become cosplayers. They don't get the terminology quite correct--"Starfleet" is "Star-Flight," they bid people to "Live logs and prosper," and the names are slightly off--but the McCoy analog ("Dr. Boons") sums up what it means to be a Trekkie in one sentence better than anything else I've ever read or seen:

"We know we're not Star-Flight, but you don't need a ship to believe in what it stands for."

FINALLY finished it. It was a chore. I shall not miss it.

OK, what is the other ST I need to watch?

What is the one with the dishy Pike? New seasons?

Strange New Worlds. THAT show is really good.

Thank you r286.

What season is ST:SNW up to?

I think season three is starting soon.

Just looked it up, and I have the ten episodes for S1 and S2, and we are all waiting for the next ten of S3 in 2025.

I like Strange New Worlds but I feel no emotional investment in any of the characters. Maybe because it's only been two seasons, but I remember watching the first season of Discovery and really being taken in by Michael's story and her character arch. I loved that she was a mutineer who then redeemed herself along the way and grew into her leadership role. SNW feels more like the OG series to me with better visuals. It's fun but I don't really care what happens to any of those people.

Discovery is a classic tale of hubris, redemption and a quest for inner and external truths.

We will see about SNW

To me SNW feels very calculated. It's probably because I've become very jaded when it comes to ST and the way the franchise is run. All that talk about creating shows for specific demographics gets me the feeling that the shows are not about telling relevant stories or engaging characters anymore. Each show feels like it's getting demographic-appropriate ingredients and then somebody sees how that could become a consumable show. I know I'm unfair because pretty much all franchises are like that. But when you read old interviews with Michael Piller or Ira Behr you get a sense of story telling that felt genuine and is missing right now. Sorry, I cannot explain it any better.

Having said that, just because it feels calculated to me doesn't necessarily mean that it is a bad show. SNW is not bad at all. It just feels 'artificial' to me not organic. And in contrast to DSC, I actually believe that SNW's writers are very capable and write the show generally quite well.

[quote] Maybe because it's only been two seasons, but I remember watching the first season of Discovery and really being taken in by Michael's story and her character arch.

Michael’s character arc was interesting but that season one finale speech she made at Starfleet headquarters was something I never forgot and that’s not a compliment. It was horrendous.

[quote] But when you read old interviews with Michael Piller or Ira Behr you get a sense of story telling that felt genuine and is missing right now

Ira Behr - showrunner - Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - story telling that felt genuine and is missing right now - YYYEAH!

I never watched Deep Space Nine. Not sure why as I know a lot of folks loved it. I think maybe because I enjoyed the space exploration aspect of the other Trek series' so I thought it would bore me.

Of all the pre P+ series, DS9 is the most like a contemporary series. I think that may be one of the reasons why I still find it more watchable than TNG or VOY. I have plenty of comfort-food episodes of those, but on the whole, as good as they are, they really show their ages.

I didn't care for DS9 when it originally aired - I tuned out after about 6 episodes. Rewatched it 20 years later, and enjoyed it quite a bit more. Bashir irritated me, and I'm still bugged by Quark and any of the Ferengi-centered episodes, with the exception of the war-damaged son ones.

They should have done an "Enterprise ending" for Discovery, and had it all be Wesley's attempt at writing a holonovel for a class - for which he got an 'F'.

I loved Deep Space Nine--especially as the steam picked up. I loved The Expanse--not Trek, but great SciFi. May take a bit to get going, but it's really prescient in a lot of ways.

Well, you all certainly have put the “Pointless” in bitchery. I’ve loved Discovery from Season One. What I don’t like is Strange New Worlds. I find for most episodes the storytelling is light. And the queer helmswoman isn’t even played by a real queer. Surely they could have found a young dyke to play Ortegas.

[quote]And the queer helmswoman isn’t even played by a real queer

I mean, despite Ortegas' sapphic vibes, I don't think they've actual established her orientation. We know Chapel is bi (they've established that in dialog), the transporter chief who replaced the hot Asian twink Mr. Kyle is played by a non-binary actor, and Captain Angel (god, speaking of characters I want to come back) was played by trans actress Jesse James Keitel (and the character was referred to as "they/them"), but I think that's it as far as overt queer material.

I mean, I'm equally shocked that Melissa Navia isn't a lesbian, but still, you can be a butch straight woman. I suppose.

R300 Or perhaps someone who could act.

The fact Strange New Worlds pulled off a musical episode is kind of amazing. I still listen to the songs.

^ Me too. That was surprisingly well done.

I knew it was going to be good when they did the entire opening theme a cappella.

[quote] Captain Angel (god, speaking of characters I want to come back) was played by trans actress Jesse James Keitel

I loathed that character or the performance maybe. Charmless and ridiculously over the top, it was like watching a Drag Race villain.

SNW has way too much of an MCU vibe for me; too light and quippy. There’s no solid overarching plot which makes it feel kind of aimless. Pike is kind of smug and weak and I hate everything about the Spock and Chapel whatever-the-hell-is-going-on-with-them.

Really mixed feelings about the show.

Jesse James Keitel played a magnificently arch, complex and evil character. She is what Gail Sondergarrd was had she been cast as the WW of West and the reason she wasn't.

R295 DS9 is, IMO, the best written (and best acted) Trek series to date. That being said, its first two seasons are largely forgettable. Season 3 is when the show really starts to find its footing and Season 4 is when it takes off in terms of quality.

While I think SNW has stronger writing than DSC, I find the episodic nature of the show lacklustre for me. I think I'm so comfortable with the modern serialized nature of television that standalone episodes don't entice me to tune-in. Also with only 10 episodes a season, the show feels a bit "schizophrenic" because there's no consistency in the type of episodes they tell. With the old-school 20+ episodes a season, there was more of a steady feeling, a better spacing between the different concepts of the week.

[quote] Jesse James Keitel played a magnificently arch, complex and evil character.

Wow. Hard disagree. I found it a self-conscious, moustache twirling,, cartoonish, inappropriately camp performance. It reminded me of DS9’s Intendant which got away with it by virtue of the fact it was the Mirror universe, and Nana Visitor can act in general. I hated that SNW episode in general though. It was plain naff.

[quote]Wow. Hard disagree. I found it a self-conscious, moustache twirling,, cartoonish, inappropriately camp performance.

I concur. I make this next comment without regard for this person being trans.

The villain was as campy as a drag queen's rendition of a woman compared to the understated quality of QEII.

Poor sentient Zora. She developed programming to strengthen her commitment to the crew and being part of it but is sent off to deep space to go quietly insane by herself.

I really hated the whole "she doesn't count as a lifeform, so we don't have to delete her, but let's treat her like a person anyway" BS. Oh great, the ship's computer wants to talk about feelings, just like everyone else on the show.

Sorry, C3PO, Feelings are a part of life. I know it's hard to understand, being a droid and all.

R314 They are also part of bad writing, which Discovery had continuously.

- "DS9 is, IMO, the best written (and best acted) Trek series to date. That being said, its first two seasons are largely forgettable. Season 3 is when the show really starts to find its footing and Season 4 is when it takes off in terms of quality”

DS9 is amazing during seasons 4-7, and I’d agree with you on that. However, in the beginning of the series Nana Visitor and Terry Farrell were HORRIBLE at acting. Terry greatly improved during the show and came into her own. Nana got somewhat better, but the alternate universe episodes with her counterpart are difficult to watch. I think Discovery handled the alternate universe storyline much better. Avery Brooks gets a lot of flack for overacting, but I think he’s really good. And I love Louise Fletcher.

DS9 dragged like hell. At one point, I just started FF'ing through all the non-Dominion scenes.

ENT and VOY are the most rewatchable for me. And while I love SNW, I can't see myself rewatching it anytime soon, there's just not enough meat on it.

I think SNW serves more the casual TNG and VOY viewer, those viewers who are bored and want to watch an old episode or two because they like the show. DS9 (and to a degree ENT) are more suitable to watch hours and hours because of their story arcs. You need more commitment to those shows than TNG, VOY and SNW. That's not a statement on quality. It's just that the story telling serves different purposes.

[quote] However, in the beginning of the series Nana Visitor and Terry Farrell were HORRIBLE at acting.

Nonsense. Nana Visitor is a superb actress and deserved an Emmy for the first season’s “Duet”. Terry Farrell was charismatic as hell and, once they learned how to write her character, elevated every scene she was in.

I liked Voyager precisely because they dealt more with the feelings of the cast. In particular, I loved the 7 of 9 storyline with her trying to become human again.

There has to be emotional investment in a show on some level. It's not all about the pew pew pew!

Agree r318! r316 sounds like a fucking lush.

I meant: Agree [R319]! [R316] sounds like a fucking lush.

I meant greed. [r311]!!! and R3166] shounds like fucking lush.

R316 - Hardly a lush, sweetness. R319 - I will agree that Nana was good in Duet, but sometimes she’s painful to watch. As I said, as her Serena/Bad Jeannie counterpart in the Terran Universe. Cringe worthy. Other times, she’s really good. Farrell was wooden in the first season, but perhaps you’re right, once the writers learned how to write for her she became very good. No one was more upset by her death than I was. Now, with regard to SNW - I prefer serialised shows. I loved TOS and Voyager, but SNW I feel is not up to their level of one-off storytelling. Sure Pike is hot, but it’s not enough for me. His hair is ridiculous, and I find him to have the charisma of wet cardboard. I hate that they made the designated “Hot Girl” Chapel “Bi” just for the straight man titillation. To me, the most interesting character with the most depth on SNW is Dr. M’Benga. I have throughly enjoyed his character arc and his complexity. As for the original thread, flame away all you want but I found Discovery thoroughly enjoyable for 5 seasons, season 3 being the weakest. I loved the ending. I haven’t yet watched Lower Decks or Enterprise, but I’ll get to those.

[quote]Captain Janeway Returns to the Delta Quadrant in 'Star Trek: Prodigy'

I'm so excited!!

Trailer.

July 1st on Netflix.

Netflix just dropped all 20 episodes of Prodigy season 2. First episode is as wholesome as anything in the first season. We get a spiffy new retooled Voyager (now a Lamarr-class science vessel) with 16+ holodecks, a shiny slipstream warp core, Cetacean Ops finally featuring more prominently, Robert Picardo (!!), Jellico up to his usual tricks, a Bolian baby...

This show is hitting all the sweet spots for me already. It's just so delightful.

I found both animated series, Prodigy and Lower Decks, to be more interesting than Disco.

Yeah, obviously, lol.