Worst spin off of all time.

I think this is the worst poll of all time. Rhoda? Phyllis??? Where are:

Joey

AfterMASH

The Brady Brides

The Brady Bunch Hour

The Bradys

The Ropers

Joanie Loves Chachi

Gloria

The Tortellis

Baywatch Nights

Beverly Hills Buntz

Models Inc.

Two's Company which was created to provide a cover for FOCUS groups testing consumer products.

[quote]Vivian Vance Presents Cavalcade of Cankles

This week's special guest: Hillary Clinton!

Jack Ruby shooting Lee Harvey Oswald.

Joey. I don't understand why LeBlanc did that, since he was set for life.

Out of the Blue, a spinoff of a Happy Days about an angel who comes down to Earth to watch over some orphans.

No one wanted to be subjected to this guy's face every week.

Women of the House. what a mess.

Checking In - the horrible spin-off from 'The Jeffersons'

The mercifully short sitcom spun off from My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

Joanie Loves Chachi

704 Hauser St.

AfterMASH

Rhoda wasn't the *worst* spin-off of all time, but it was probably the biggest case of unfulfilled expectations.

Rhoda was a beloved character. Valerie Harper won three Emmys on the MTM show and a Best Actress Emmy for the first season of the spinoff. Her wedding broke ratings records that stood for decades. Rhoda ranked #6 and #7 for its first two seasons.

But the creators made a fundamental mistake, as James L. Brooks said in his Television Academy interview: They cast a guy as Rhoda's husband that Valerie Harper had no chemistry with. David Groh was no Suzanne Pleshette. The writers couldn't figure out how to write comedy about a '70s marriage for 8 pm (how?), so they broke them up, which created a lot of viewer ill will.

I think he has a point, but it wasn't all Groh. It was the writing and conception. The show was poorly structured from the beginning: Homely Brenda upstaged Rhoda. Brenda got all of Rhoda's former lines, so Rhoda became boring. It might have been better to have Rhoda react against a sister who was perfect.

The show was overlooked by its production company because of the high ratings: If they didn't have writers who could write marriage comedy, they needed more writers who could. They didn't create reliable neighbors or friends for Rhoda (for no good reason), and her last gig in the costume shop playing against a D-list Lou Grant was just lame.

One TV book summed it up well: "After four years with Mary Richards and four-and-a-half years on her own, Rhoda looked like a woman who was going nowhere fast."

Thanl you R1, you covered the ones that came to my mind.

Aside from Three's a Crowd most of OP's list was at least modestly entertaining, if not a big behemoth hit.

R5 I thought the same. Of all the characters to get a spinoff he was the least interesting.

[quote] The writers couldn't figure out how to write comedy about a '70s marriage for 8 pm (how?), so they broke them up, which created a lot of viewer ill will.

Back then, the networks adhered to 'the family hour' in which shows which aired between 7 pm - 9 pm could not make references to certain topics (especially sex) while children were watching. The first two seasons of 'Rhoda' were on Monday nights at 9:30, so they were safe. By the third season, CBS moved the show to Mondays at 8 pm - smack dab in the 'family hour' - and the writers realized they had a problem on their hands. How can they write for a married couple if they couldn't mention sex ?

That was also a weak excuse, R16.

The Dick Van Dyke Show, He & She, and I Love Lucy figured out how to present funny stories about married couples in eras with much greater censorship.

So why couldn't MTM Productions in 1974, with its stable of super-talented writers?

The show was botched by the production company, and they tried to assign it to external factors. But the biggest issue was, the writers just weren't up to par.

The San Pedro Beach Bums

Blanskey’s Beauties

Mr. T & Tina

LOL at the Out of the Blue mention.....with future DL legends Dixie Carter and Eileen Heckart

[quote]Joey. I don't understand why LeBlanc did that, since he was set for life.

Anything that put cute lil Paulo Costanzo on tv is fine by me.

LeBlanc doing the spinoff made a certain amount of sense. He was the one with the least talent and the least opportunities out of all of them.

Three's A Crowd suffered from the bland Mary Cadorette. It looks like it was produced by the same greedy cheapskates as Three's Company, so they probably just hired the actress who accepted the lowest pay.

They should have had Jack marry Cindy (Jennilee Harrison). Then he could play 'straight man' to her goofy mishaps.

Joey.

I was going to suggest Frasier 2.0, but then I remembered it's a revival, not a spin-off.

"The Colbys" the horrible, dull spin-off from 'Dynasty'. Even Joan Collins trash talked this spin-off when it happened. But ABC insisted on another Spelling 'glamorous' drama, and this is what they got. If not for Stephanie Beecham, this would've been totally unwatchable.

Robert Mandan deserved better than Three's a Crowd.

R24 I think the Colbys was better than Dynasty for the two seasons they ran simultaneously. The show was far from dull, but not everything worked. For one, the cast was too large. Emma Samms was miscast from the get go and written as this whiny frau, which was a huge mistake. Jason, Sable, Jeff, Fallon and Connie should’ve been the main drivers of the action, and the rest relegated to the B stories (well they actually got three of five of them right, not Fallon and Connie). Beacham was fun in the role, but a bit overrated. Having another British bitch was too on the nose. They should’ve gone with an American bitch as Jason’s wife.

I don't think Rhoda was the worst spin off of all time by a long shot. I loved it the first few years it was on -- even though I found Joe unappealing I still thought Rhoda and Brenda were funny. But to me the worst thing about it by far was Rhoda's little troll mother Ida.

The show hasn't held up at all though. But I do love the 70's styles and decor.

Heston as Jason Colby was so terrible. Literally anyone else might have been better.

Didn't someone get abducted by aliens on The Colbys?

R29 On the final episode, I think.

Part of the mistake with Rhoda was marrying her off so fast. Maybe if she had had a longer courtship at the at the beginning, her show would have been better.

Woman of the House was awful. They retconned Sugarbaker family history -- suddenly there's a "retarded" (Suzanne's words) brother -- and it was so unfunny. Delta Burke had lost what made her funny.

Most spinoffs that feature secondary characters turned main characters suck ("Frasier" is an exception).

Joey.

[quote] Three's A Crowd suffered from the bland Mary Cadorette. It looks like it was produced by the same greedy cheapskates as Three's Company, so they probably just hired the actress who accepted the lowest pay.

A cheap production company that must have spent all of $20 on the opening credits to "The Ropers."

Phyllis, the worst?

It sure isn't her.

R29 the Fallon character. Emma specifically. Pamela Sue wouldn’t play this bullshit.

Rhoda can't be the worst spinoff of all time for one reason:

Rhoda was highly disappointing. They took a beloved, quirky character from Mary Tyler Moore, moved her to New York, and made her normal (more like Mary).

It would have been interesting to see her single for a season or two, as mentioned.

For Rhoda's husband: should have been a small-ish, nerdy, college professor-type, like the guy she dated on MTM (they ate Chinese food on the steps). Someone intelligent who appreciated Rhoda's quirky style.

Vivian AND Larry Tate!

For the record:

The original choice to play Joe on 'Rhoda' was actor Judd Hirsch ('Taxi'). They apparently had great chemistry together when he auditioned for the role. Howeverm they took way too long to make him an offer - he had taken a role on Broadway which he was committed to, and wouldn't leave the production to join the cast of 'Rhoda'. In season 4, he played her love interest in a multi-episode story arc (they ended up breaking up).

Sable Colby was originally offered to Angie Dickinson, whom Aaron Spelling first offered the role of 'Krystle' on 'Dynasty'. The story goes that while she was taking time to 'consider' the offer, Spelling caught Beecham on stage in a play in London. He knew right then he wanted her, and visited her backstage in her dressing room. He made her an offer (supposedly without even a screen test) and she accepted within a day. By the time Dickinson got back to him with an acceptance, she was told the role was filled.

R39 yeah I’ve heard that story about Dickinson. She was offered Krystle, but she turned it down. Then Dynasty became huge, so I’m sure the money talked regard the Colbys. That and being on another possible hit show. She has said she hated doing Police Woman, maybe because of the success or failure of it was squarely on her shoulders, unlike the Colbys, where she didn’t have to carry the entire show.

R4

Criminally underrated comment.

Rhoda was a terrible spin off. But Rhoda was a great character.

I didn’t mind Rhoda’s marriage or divorce but I drew the line when she moved down a few floors to that much less charming apartment.

The Ropers bombed because the characters worked well in the context of Three Company as supporting cast. Putting them as leads of their own show changed their unique dynamic and became boring at best.

Empty Nest. I have never seen it in reruns. And it had an awful spinoff called Nurses, which was quickly canceled.

[quote]The show was poorly structured from the beginning: Homely Brenda upstaged Rhoda. Brenda got all of Rhoda's former lines, so Rhoda became boring. It might have been better to have Rhoda react against a sister who was perfect.

Wasn’t there an episode of The Mary Tyler Moore Show where they go to Rhoda’s sister’s wedding and that sister was kind of perfect? Or at least the golden child? I can’t remember exactly what happened but something along those lines. I like your idea, r13.

Yeah, I also recall that, R46. When she was on the MTM show, Rhoda definitely had a perfect type sister who was the favored one and got married. I remember being surprised when her sister turned out to be Brenda.

No one has mentioned FLO?

Grease 2

704 Hauser. The house from 'All in the Family' goes to college in Miami.

I agree that David Groh was not ideally cast as Joe on Rhoda; his chemistry with Valerie Harper felt off, and his demeanor was too intense for this type of show. It didn't bother me too much because the writers quickly adjusted by minimizing his role and giving him more straight lines, even prior to the separation storyline.

This shift allowed Brenda to step into a more prominent role, which I enjoyed because I loved the character and Julie Kavner's performance. The relationship between the three Morgenstern women was the strongest part of the series IMO.

The Season 4 opening credits, featuring Rhoda and Brenda engaging in various activities around NYC, were also a favorite of mine.

I think ‘Joey’ would have had a better chance of working if they had made it a workplace comedy. Have him cast on a successful series and play off the wacky co-stars and director (think Tootsie.) Watching a pushing-40 struggling actor is not entertaining and the lame cast of characters they surrounded him with didn’t help.

When I saw Rhoda was going to divorce Joe, my teenage mind concocted ways to get to New York so I could appreciate his size meat and the forest surrounding it.

Rhoda and Phyllis were both good spin-offs. Rhoda could have been better (why was Joe divorced with a kid?) but it still lasted five seasons.

R43 That 'charming apartment' on the first two seasons of RHODA became SEINFELD's apartment (without the rooftop patio) in the 90s. Right down to the intercom / buzzer.

R46 R47 Yes, that was her sister 'Debbie' played by actress Liberty Williams. She was never mentioned again or seen again.

R51 That's the first version of S4 opening. They had to reshoot the the beginning because Harper had lost weight that summer, and became 'too thin'. You can see her bones in that green dress - viewers wrote to the show to ask if Harper was going through chemo, fearing she had cancer. (The tabloids ran with those rumors). So they had to redo those 'stills' of her - I believe the new shots had her in a white dress covering her bones.

R53, I wanted in Joe’s pants so bad!

I blame David Groh for setting off my lifetime obsession with a hairy chest.

Apparently, this was an unintended phenomenon playing out in living rooms populated by gaylings across the nation.

“Golden Palace” was the absolute worst spinoff. The “Golden Girls” could have continued without Bea Arthur. Elaine Stritch would’ve been perfect for a “Dorothy” type. (She auditioned originally for the Dorothy role, but was rejected.)

Here’s David Groh getting stretched by Bikram, the hot yoga entrepreneur who’d wind of disgraced in the #metoo era.

More yoga with Groh.

I know, start your own fucking thread.

R5 because he doesn't want to be forgotten. It is all about their egos. A lot of celebrities get super rich but won't retire because of their egos.

Worst thread ever

Phyllis had a great theme song though

The New Testament.

OK, Good one R63. I really laughed at that one.

[quote]Joey. I don't understand why LeBlanc did that, since he was set for life.

You obviously don't know much about actors. No one goes through what a struggling actor has to go through with the goal of being "set for life." Acting isn't investment banking. Actors want to act. And it's not just because of "ego," as another poster said. With few exceptions, actors genuinely love to act. And a chance to headline his own series and not be just a member of an ensemble? Catnip for an actor.

The Good Fight.

It started off very well, with Christine Baranski stealing every scene she was in. But after the first two seasons it just got stranger and stranger and stranger..

R13, As a gayling in the mid-1970s, I enjoyed whenever the “Rhoda” writers had David Groh shirtless.

For me, one of the best written/funniest shows of the “Rhoda” series.

Blansky’s Beauties

R65 If he loved to act, he wouldn't have done shit like Joey.

I don't know if they're sequels, prequels, spin-offs, or what, but whatever shows some of the cast of That 70s Show did.

I never watched [italic]Fish[/italic] but thought it a bad idea at the time. It didn't last, so I suspect it's a contender.

Rhoda wasn’t the worst, it was the biggest disappointment.

Here’s a question—what was the BEST spinoff? I’m thinking “Lou Grant.”

Can we talk more about the Golden Palace and why it was so awful?

I'd rather not. I get depressed thinking about it.

Clearly a post by an ancient eldergay

Knot's Landing was a great spinoff.

How many of the original writers of The Golden Girl were employed in The Golden Palace?

I've seen every episode of Rhoda, I think it is very funny.

Rhoda and Brenda in Vegas onstage with Johnny Venture? Comedy gold!

[quote]How many of the original writers of The Golden Girl were employed in The Golden Palace?

Not enough, clearly. The premise sucked, for starters. It ignored everything that made the original series so popular. As others have said, the original series could have continued by bringing in a new roommate to replace Bea Arthur. The right actress may have even invigorated the series, which was declining in quality, as most long-running series do eventually.

Rhoda was high art compared to that garbage heap Three’s a Crowd.

The premise sucked indeed, R80, and the black guy was not funny.

Rhoda seemed claustrophobic. The apartments, although meant to be in NY seemed dark and cluttered. And it didn't help when the focus went to Brenda and Kavner's whiny voice, so perfect for Marge Simpson, was unbearable.

Veteran actor Steve Frankel played Rhoda's boyfriend Jonas on MTM and he was far better with Harper than Groh. They paired her with Rene Auberjonois late in the series and that had promise but it was too late.

Steve Franken from "Dobie Gillis," R83?

It hasn’t even come out yet, but I’m pretty sure “George and Mandy’s Forst Marriage”’will end up on this list pretty quickly.

It’s not like “Young Sheldon” was the best spin-off either.

Angel wasn't a terrible show but it was terrible compared to the show that birthed it, Buffy. I think that makes it a bad spin-off.

Do prequels count as spin-offs? If so, then House of the Dragon.

R73 I'd pick 'Frasier' as the best spin-off. 'Lou Grant' loses points for never having had any MTM characters visit Lou in Los Angeles.

Just thinking about the openings of Phyllis and Rhoda... Loved the Phyllis opening. It coincided with my introduction to weed so my laughs quotient was way up there before the episode began.

As for Rhoda, watching my younger sister as she watched the opening was fascinating. Her lips moved as Rhoda gave her abbreviated life story. I should ask her if Rhoda was a disappointing role model.

R88 technically one did, Eileen Heckart who played Mary's Aunt Flo.

But I know what you meant.

Never watched Golden Palace (I was only a sporadic Golden Girls watcher, anyway). Never watched Lou Grant.

I loved the Here's Lucy spinoff, Kim, Craig, and Uncle Harry.

R84, yes, he played the best friend of the guy who was romancing Mary. He comes on to Rhoda at a party but not smarmy at all. He had a few small guest appearances but it never translated into anything bigger. Even Brenda's boyfriend Benny, Ray Buktenika would have been more interesting than Groh

David Groh needed to sit on my face back then

R5 I think Matt reasoned IM STILL YOUNG, let me seize the next gig now. It’s just one of those things where the writing sucked.

[Quote] David Groh needed to sit on my face back then

I knew it! THAT’s what the show needed!

I actually didn’t watch Cheers or Frazier so I can’t compare. As a superfan of MTM, yes I always harbored a wish that Mary would fly in from Peoria where she was producer of news at a tv station (or whatever), and was disappointed when it never happened, but in hindsight I think it was a good idea.

MTM was comedy and TLGS was an issue drama. Having the characters from a sitcom meet again in a serious drama would be a very odd tonal shift one way or another. I think the clean break worked better.

The unlikable Ray Buttenika and other bad supporting characters ruined Rhoda. Him specifically. I had a huge crush on the Johnny Venture character but he didn't fit well either.

It might have worked better if she and Joe were in a perpetual state of trying, marriage in separation, back and forth. Has there ever been a good show like that? There must be. It's so commonplace in real life, even my own parents for a time as well as so many friends right now.

R96 TLGS? I thought the name was Lou Grant.

The Connors

The first season reboot of Roseanne wasn't great either. It's like they all forgot what made the original so endearing.

And trying to market Sara Gilbert as some white-hot piece of ass that every man in Lanford wants was never not ridiculous. As another message board said, the womans face is shriveled up like an eighty-year-olds vagina.