How do we fix the looming American non-retirement and aging crisis?

[quote]America is aging, is going to be majority elderly

Datalounge is already there.

I hate to disappoint you, OP, but I retired last month at the age of 61. My retirement income is quite secure, and I make slightly more than I did when working full time. I own my home and have excellent health insurance. Some of us planned ahead. It's not always doom and gloom.

Good for you, R2. However, the other half of your peers from the other side of the tracks probably didn't fare quite as well.

And their not doing well will affect both me and you. We are all interconnected here.

Fantastic R2. I'm sure you'll enjoy enthusiastically shitting all over other people who didn't have the same chances and luck in life that you did.

R4 that's an incredibly American attitude. "I got mine, screw you." Except when larger societal problems DO affect them. And then they want the government to step in.

They will probably 'fix' that by immigration. Getting plenty of cheap workers over from developing countries.

R6 immigration won't fix tens of millions of Americans not being able to get by on SS alone

My retirement plan is to die.

R7 Well, they aren't going to tax big business and the rich properly either.

OK I guess I can do one last big wave. But only because you asked so nicely OP.

Stronger social safety nets in other countries keep the weak, vulnerable, and elderly from falling between the cracks. Of course we can't have that here because Socialism.

I will splurge my $5.27 of retirement money and then kill myself. easy peasy, problem solved.

Social spending reallocation of resources for them, and other vulnerables, and away from today's woke focus on bad boys who just need some love and attention.

I retired medically at age 57. I’m 64 now. My husband just retired at age 63. Our retirement is very good. We own a house and one new hybrid truck and one a couple of years old. We have health insurance. You know, people can plan for entitlement.

R14 Yes we know that every Datalounger has $10 million saved for retirement.

This thread is meant for those other poor unfortunates.

r14 Yeah but this thread isn't talking about people like you. I don't know why you think your own personal experience can be everyone else's. Especially not now when it's too late for people to be able to save. The original article talks about some ways to help prevent it in future but that's not what this thread is asking about.

Euthanasia?

[quote] My retirement plan is to die.

Same here. Once I get to the point where there is nothing left to look forward to but pain and deterioration...give me a nice dose of Fentanyl and call it a day.

R16 There is something quite good where I live. I have friends on a very limited income. We have low income senior apartments. Sliding scale. There are several complexes built for seniors and they just opened one for families. All of them are nice.

The cost of housing is ridiculous.

R16 It's actually the well-off retirees who are the most callous towards the poor elderly. Look at R2 and R14. They're like BYE GIRL

You made bad choices in life!

The winners never really understand that not everyone can be a winner either.

R22, let's blame ABBA.

R2 Good health insurance won’t help you when all the health workers quit. Even private practices are having problems finding nurses. The collective issues will always affect your personal livelihood, like it or not.

America is the land of "I've got mine, Jack!" and has no interest in solidarity. You'd think a country so.dmed proud of itself would have some.

R25 They don't want to think about great society problems until it's the fucking homeless camped outside their own house. MAYBE at that point they may acknowledge that Houston, we have a problem

I'm planning on the millennials ushering in socialist policy

We won't.

Please save Social Security!

No society has been or ever will be truly equal. Some people will have better opportunities, better luck, head-starts, etc. And some people will lead lives of quiet desperation. But we aren't helpless victims -we do have self-determination. We can shape our future to one degree or another. I was born into a working-class family. Both parents worked full-time to put bread on the table. I worked hard in school, got into college -which I worked my way through and spent years paying off. I took a union job that had a good pension. I worked for 40 years, often holding down a second job to make ends meet. I took care of my parents through their final illnesses. I did what was expected of me my whole life, working hard and toeing the line. So now I am retired and fairly secure. Not rich. I say "fuck you" to those who attribute my situation to luck or privilege or entitlement. I got here through hard work and sacrifice. And I don't say "I've got mine, Jack" to anyone. I do volunteer work in my community and support progressive causes that help those in need. And yet some of the younger folks here despise me and blame me for the state of their lives. I've voted (Democratic) in every election since I turned eighteen. Have they? I marched for civil rights. I gone door-to-door walking precincts to get out the vote and support candidates and causes. Did they? Life doesn't hand you everything on a silver platter. You have to go out and work for it. And fight for it. And when you do climb up a notch or two you reach back and help your neighbor. No one can make you a victim without your consent.

R30 I'm not sure why you're bringing up young people on a thread about retirement.

Wow, r30, that's a lot of cliches you wrote there.

Glad the combination of good luck and determination delivered the preachy anecdotal experience you've shared with all of us. We're all a disaster or mistake or miscalculation or two from being completely humbled. Sometimes, it's just better to not tempt fate by being quietly prideful about what you have.

[quote] I'm planning on the millennials ushering in socialist policy

R37 We’ve already got socialist policy in the US. It’s called socialist red states getting disproportionately large amounts of money from blue-state taxpayers and then screaming against socialism to try to cover it up, in true Republican/MAGA fashion.

^^That was for R27.

Why do people who do well seem to want others who didn’t make as much as them to die in the streets? It’s the same as people who make a comfortable living not wanting minimum wage workers to be able to survive. I don’t want to live in a third world style county where masses of people are homeless or can’t feed themselves. Who cares if they didn’t save or didn’t go to university. We still need them working those jobs and they still need to survive. I don’t want the person working as a cashier to not be able to pay their bills. We should all be able to have our basic needs met especially if you are willing to work.

So now you see how manifest the Republican Immigration fuck up has been since Reagan's Amnesty.

We need immigrants, young immigrants to work and pay into Social Security and VOTE. That last part sends Republican White Supremacists into a paroxysm of pain.

Remove the cap on the amount of your salary that you pay social security tax on. People with a lot more money can afford it a lot more than anybody else! and they keep raising the damned cap.

"The limit on annual earnings subject to Social Security taxes is referred to as the taxable maximum or the Social Security tax cap. For 2024, that maximum is set at $168,600, an increase of $8,400 from last year."

The voodoo trickle-down Reaganomics people in charge need to die before any change will ever be made. They are absolutely convinced that their way is the way, nevermind the dystopia surrounding us

You just gotta keep working, baby.

R35 because R2 and R14 walked 100 miles uphill in the snow each day.

So why shouldn't everybody else?

If there's one thing America loves, it's finding excuses to withhold resources from people by pointing out how they've fucked up.

R41, unless they're major banking institutions. And then we bail them out. 😂

I got mine.

Retirement?

We don't need no stinking retirement!

From some levity, here's Janet Reno's Dance Party!

R45 LOL. But Americans don't need levity. They need to confront an ugly reality headed their way

Mandatory suicide at age 70. At age 50 if you are unattractive or poor.

I’m already eyeing a spot near my local shopping center.

The Republicans want to get rid of Social Security.

I’m going to sell my ass until I can’t anymore, then pull all my teeth, wear a wig and give blowjobs in the alley!

Republicans want unregulated private entities like churches to replace the social welfare system.

Churches desperately need taxing.

R50 = Aaron Schock

R41 what America needs is to sit down, have an honest conversation and figure this shit out.

This problem will not go away on its own.

Don't worry. Our geriatric leadership has this.

I can't believe R2/R30 came back for a second serve to tell us all to get fucked and tell us how rich he is and that he earns more money now than when he worked full time. Unbelievable.

This is going to be a MASSIVE, silver crisis.

R30 ask them to turn the spotlight on for your next monologue

OP, that was a genuinely interesting read. I was not aware of the recent success of these auto-enrollment programs for lower income folks. It's awesome to hear that it's working!

And, yes, American is a paradox -- Americans are often ranked #1 in generosity of giving to charities vs. other countries. As individuals, we can be incredibly generous. But, as a society, not always the case. Much of our social safety net pales in comparison to other developed nations.

I'm not American but it seems like a very tough place to be down and out. Nobody seems to care much. The wealthiest county on earth and so little care for your own.

The article is saying a required savings retirement plan at work would help fix this. Seems like a good idea. Social Security is enough to keep most seniors from true poverty especially if their home is paid for. Seniors who live together can do okay on Social Security.. It doesn’t seem like a problem that’s too difficult to fix.

Also if you can hold off to 70, the maximum benefit goes up to $4800 a month. That’s a decent amount although most will get a lot less.

Corporations should be taxed more and the difference go to senior citizens accordingly. For a start. Good for you OP raising the issue.

The history of life on , human and non human, earth is full of sad stories of those who did not fare well and got left behind they and their species no longer to found here on earth. Gone forever when they once roamed the earth in very large numbers.

The strong the smart the adaptable survived the weak the not so smart those that could not adapt did not survive.

The climate is going to be a big issue in the coming years. And lots of people lots of countries are going to know what the dinosaurs learned. Nothing lasts and good times end.

The smart powerful countries and the smart powerful adaptable people will do better and the others will not.

My guess is that in general older people today are far better prepared for retirement than 20 somethings will ever be at any time in their life.

R2, please stop lecturing. I think I'm pretty typical of a lot of older Gen Xers and DLers: got the college and professional degrees, had some stumbles in my working life but have been continuously (and decently, if not fabulously) employed for 20+ years (only a couple short periods of unemployment), have invested conscientiously, and am saving money by not having a car, not having kids (didn't want them much anyway), never traveling, and rarely eating out. Studio apartment. No fancy electronics.

So what's holding me back? Here's what:

Health insurance premiums, medical care, stagnating wages, rising rent, and the còst of basics like food. All of this adds up fast and makes retirement savings a mountain to climb.

Okay?

[quote]Today, nearly 51 percent of Americans worry that they’ll run out of money when they’re no longer earning a paycheck — and 70 percent of retirees wish they had started saving earlier.

I'm surprised that both statistics in the lede paragraph seem conservative. Some half of American households have no savings and somewhere between more than half and two-thirds of Americans are worried about falling short in their ability to retire or retire at full retirement age.

Certainly I wish I had started saving years earlier and much more seriously at the start, and I'm the lucky if less smug position of R2. The U.S. system leaves everything to being a smug cunt who enjoys a salary sufficient to set aside a large percentage of income from the time he starts work. Even Americans who find themselves in the position of being able to retire on time or early and live modestly and happily in their retirement have the great worry of health care costs hanging over everything.

Fear not, R66!

R2 and R14 will be here soon to patiently explain to you how it's all your fault for buying the wrong sort of groceries. Or maybe because you didn't choose your career purely based on its earning potential, so you don't deserve to live.

R2, you may be ok for now, but you could easily live for at least another 20+ years. Are you covered for that long and all the possible eventualities?

[...]

[...]

Americans have a lot of trouble with establishing a basic level of decency for their fellow humans, as the behavior on this board shows.

[...]

We’ve scratched the surface of pandemics. Let’s not worry too much about a future that may never come.

There are plenty of dead covid victims who were financially comfortable savers.

R2, R66 here again.

You are a boomer and therefore had the great advantage of lower housing and healthcare costs. Your union job suggests either teaching or civil service. You know what? I taught college for a couple of years and almost lost my mind dealing with entitled freshmen who thought their tuition payments entitled them to As. I later tried to find government employment but was rejected at every turn despite my credentials.

In short, I've worked hard, too, but life's vagaries have made "success" difficult.

R74

And many of us are alive today because despite being deathly sick with Covid we had outstanding medical coverage and outstanding hospitals and outstanding follow up care.

Those who prepare well for the future are more likely to experience a future. They are more likely to stay afloat despite the world turning to shit.

So you are a former college prof or instructor that after a short stint at teaching which you could not deal with could not get hired as a GS7 in the entire federal and state govt systems?

I bet there is a lot more to this story

R2 missed the point of the thread entirely, which is NOT about him. Fucktard.

[...]

Let’s not forget corporate welfare siphoned off our productivity gains, our individual tax deductions, and our COLA increases.

As with everything else, we accommodate the Baby Boom. The great wealth transfer will go to the Matt Gaetz crowd.

R47 I’d hate to see most of DL posters go at 50.

Universal income. And abolish student loan debt. Right now if you have loans outstanding, you can only ever get $700.00 a month social security regardless of your work history. The rest goes to those loans.

Student loan debt is just awful. It should be abolished.

The only way to deal with student loan debt is to lower the cost of higher education. University education in Germany is about 300 USD a semester. So, fees and that's it. Same in Switzerland. In rich countries with low cost higher education, the universities flunk out the lousy students. There is no understood "right to graduate". This is because the tax payer is PAYING those high costs, not the student. Also there are not crappy universities serving students who have no business studying academic higher education programs. Those kids can find technical schools or apprenticeships or just wing it. Technical schools are good and if they are public they are also practically free. But they will throw you out if you can't. pass muster.

So you're saying the western Europeans prioritize spending taxpayer money on education, while the US prioritizes defense and lower tax for the wealthy. Got it.

US public universities should be under 5k a year including fees. Not including room and board.

SUNY is 7k tuition (alone, not with room and board) + 1.7K in fees (again, not room and board). The fees are too high. Rip off.

Community colleges should be $100 the semester course.

Try selling this to the US taxpayer. Good luck.

US universities are now essentially hedge funds with schools attached. The primary concern is growing the endowment. Preparing students for life after graduation is secondary, tertiary even.

Also you could forbid student loans over a certain amount for attending private colleges. Private colleges should figure out their costs and they can sink or swim after the US fixes public higher education - it needs to be AFFORDABLE and that means LOW FUCKING COST.

R87 that's true but applies only to schools with billion dollar endowments.

The choice should be this:

1) you attend the private college of your dreams and that college is so rich, they are "need blind" and your Bachelor doesn't leave you much or at all in debt

2) you attend the state university that accepts you and you don't need high loans because the cost is so low.

3) you're stupid and ignorant, and so are your parents, and you take 60-80K in loans for a meh Bachelor diploma at a middling or worse private university who has RIPPED YOU OFF.

If state universities were TRULY low cost, the market would sort itself out because it would be glaringly obvious that you take Option 1 or Option 2.

We need to curtail giving government money to able-bodied and able-minded people of working age. Government assistance should be for those who can't help themselves, like people in retirement. We should move federal spending to a program for heavily subsidized nursing home care for all elderly who need it, without impoverishing them to get on Medicaid.

Yes I see what the future will be like for the youngens today, Universal Health Care, a robust and well funded SS, lower cost of housing, free college for all, and world fucking peace. And we in the US have the parties that can work together and get this done.

You youngsters are going to do so well I am so happy for you

I appreciate the dripping sarcasm. However "universal health care, a robust and well funded SS, lower cost of housing, free college for all) is not a dream in some other very rich countries.

Except of course, there is no "free college FOR ALL" anywhere because governments are not stupid. Lots of people have no place in academic higher education.

Interesting discussion but I’m going to the gym now.

Washington DC knows how to fix it, they just don’t want to

R93

And you know what the people in those countries you did not mention are doing today?

Complaining loudly about their situation and their govt and their country. If you think they are all doing the happy dance I’d love to know exactly which countries you have in mind..

"How do we fix the looming American non-retirement and aging crisis?"

Elect Democrats.

"House Democrats back bill to drop federal taxes on Social Security benefits, extend solvency

Democratic lawmakers in the House are backing a bill that would eliminate federal taxation on Social Security benefits, while also extending the program's solvency by 20 years.

Rep. Angie Craig, D-Minn., reintroduced the You Earned It, You Keep It Act with support from six co-sponsors: Reps. Yadira Caraveo, D-Colo.; Ro Khanna, D-Calif.; Don Davis, D-N.C.; Mary Peltola, D-Alaska; Andrea Salinas, D-Ore.; and Hillary Scholten, D-Mich.

Originally introduced in August 2022, the bill would repeal the taxation of Social Security benefits starting in 2025, while also raising Social Security's income tax cap. Currently, individuals making more than $168,600 in income do not get taxed for Social Security on their earnings above that amount, according to the Social Security Administration. The bill would change that, applying Social Security taxes on all earnings above $250,000..."

Meanwhile, Republicans want to privatize or eliminate Social Security.

If you're not in the 1%, voting for Republicans is economic suicide.

I guess a lot of people must love the taste of the Kool-Aid they're drinking.

Tax billionaires! Why is our tax dollars subsidizing the wealthy while we suffer?

R91. We don’t spend enough on the poor so that curtailing benefits for the poor will free up anywhere near enough money to solve the social security funding problem. The number of people who benefit from programs targeted at low incomes is pretty small compared to the vast number of retirees.

People vote against their own economic interest.

And here is why you dreamers will remain dreamers. The very people you need to join with you to institute sweeping change as far as health care, SS, taxes, and all the rest are the very people you hate and want to see dead and they return the feeling by hating you and wanting to see you dead. That’s just fucking reality.

Politically we are a fairly evenly divided country.

And right there is where those that don’t want to see sweeping change want you. Hating each other with absolutely no chance of compromise or working together.

The future is not going to look better and more comfortable . It’s going to be the exact opposite. Buckle up, start saving its going to get a lot worse.

R94 Don’t be stupid. Tuition free access doesn’t mean that that everyone will pass entrance exams.

R97, I know that those countries don't have a homeless crisis like we do.

Long-term, hopeful Democrats will attempt to trod the decades long path of optimistic compromise. The rich who love profit more than their own children will vote together with the kamikaze poor who are delighted to see a terminally broken system burn. Only those with a broader, more balanced view of history, the ones who rise above physical possessions will found the way of "Agape" or "making room", where greedy people are freely given the world they so desperately want, a pseudo-religious sect based on giving away worldly goods and walking into the wilderness alone or something. It'll be beautiful shit one day; we'll have true gurus again, young and old people at complete peace with themselves in the midst of the violence and privation of capitalism.

R106

Well if it’s “ those countries” how could anyone dispute that insight. Actually naming the countries is where you open yourself up to ridicule.

The one thing I know about the US despite all its problems a whole shit load of people are trying to come here. And that one big shit load of people.

[quote]And you know what the people in those countries you did not mention are doing today? Complaining loudly about their situation and their govt and their country. If you think they are all doing the happy dance I’d love to know exactly which countries you have in mind..

Scandinavian countries consistently rank at the top of happiness indexes, and they all have better social safety nets than the U.S.

R109

And how realistic is the progressive drive that the US will become just a larger version of Finland?

And the cry from Latin America——if we can’t get to the US let’s go to Finland our second choice.

R108, I can name any other First World countries and they ALL lack the extent of the homeless crisis that we have.

[quote]House Democrats back bill to drop federal taxes on Social Security benefits

I'm for that.

[quote]Meanwhile, Republicans want to privatize or eliminate Social Security.

I think you are referring to proposals to allow people to invest some of their Social Security premiums in the equity markets. I wouldn't do that, but I have no problem with anyone else wanting to do it.

Nobody has saved because they haven't make enough to survive, much less save for retirement. The oligarchy has made sure of that, how long will the sheep continue to be shit on and abused?

[quote]I think you are referring to proposals to allow people to invest some of their Social Security premiums in the equity markets. I wouldn't do that, but I have no problem with anyone else wanting to do it.

Do you have a problem with bailing them out when they make stupid or unsound investments, or the stock market tanks right when they're ready (or are forced) to retire? Because you're going to have to do that on top of Social Security.

[quote]The one thing I know about the US despite all its problems a whole shit load of people are trying to come here. And that one big shit load of people

R108, Americans are competitive to a fault and like to think they have a monopoly on "First World" and that every place else is "Shithole-landia". Developed countries with stable governments, educational opportunities, healthcare and social services that support their citizenry and residents, and opportunities for employment all have people from less developed countries who would like to live there.

But the more useful measure is how many people from other developed and stable countries long to live in the U.S.? Fucking few. A few successful Brit actors don't make a landslide or even a minor trend.

[quote]Do you have a problem with bailing them out when they make stupid or unsound investments, or the stock market tanks right when they're ready (or are forced) to retire? Because you're going to have to do that on top of Social Security.

No, you wouldn't. I wouldn't invest my Social Security premiums in the stock market, but if someone else wanted to do and lose it, I don't care.

I'm sure you wouldn't, R116, but the government is going to have to step in and use your tax dollars to save them, whether you want it to or not.

R104 "And here is why you dreamers will remain dreamers. The very people you need to join with you to institute sweeping change as far as health care, SS, taxes, and all the rest are the very people you hate and want to see dead and they return the feeling by hating you and wanting to see you dead. That’s just fucking reality."

Yours is a very weird reality that doesn't line up with, well, reality. I don't want to find common ground with people who want me dead, who think they're better than any race other than white and who don't value science or education. Not until until they start embracing reality. I don't value bigotry, stupidity and immorality the way they do.

[quote]I'm sure you wouldn't, [R116], but the government is going to have to step in and use your tax dollars to save them, whether you want it to or not.

No they won't, just as they don't rescue seniors who lose their life savings by being scammed or through any other bad decision.

I don’t know the solution but I lucked out and my best friend is 20 years younger than me. I’m living with her when I retire.

R119 Yes it does. AG's work fraud cases every day. Sure, they don't get it all back, but your absolutist "No they don't" makes it impossible to discuss.

Bad decisions made by individuals? Since when is that the government's fault?

[quote]Bad decisions made by individuals? Since when is that the government's fault?

Exactly. The government wouldn't make people whole if they choose to gamble some of their Social Security premiums on the stock market.

R118

We agree the country is split it’s never coming together and thus the youngsters need to work with the country and political system they have and will have not the one they don’t have but they wish they did.

It’s a fairly evenly split country and the sides are dug in and one side is never going to dominate enough and long enough to make the sweeping changes they want to see made. Ongoing stalemate if you are lucky.

Instead of trying to make the US look like Finland maybe try to keep the US looking like the US. And that is far from a given that you will able to.

Simple, a certain percentage of the wealth in the stock market is going to have to go to feeding and housing the elderly. It's all made up monopoly money anyway, so just use it for something useful for once.

If anything plunges the US into another civil war, it'll be capitalists who can't fathom parting with money. Many elderly will perish in squalor before such legislation can be agreed upon, but this is the world we greedily built.

R102: Actually the number of retirees and US residents receiving benefits for poverty is pretty close, each totaling roughly 49 million people.

I have no doubt there is some overlap (elderly poverty) and presume the poverty numbers are low because the poor are harder to count than the old.

Ice floe

Soylent green

It is not a fairly evenly divided society. It is a small, wildly, ridiculously wealthy elite "struggling" with a large group of people who are floundering and maybe if they are lucky breaking even. Tax the fucking rich like we mean it, and redistribute to everybody.

Live by the sword, die by the sword

One thing that must be preserved is the current rules for 401k. It doesn't help everyone, but it helps some, and some is better than none. I'm on target to accumulate $2m by retirement, and that couldn't have happened without the tax advantage.

Nevermind, R130, the goalposts will have moved a half dozen times before you retire, and that's if your close already.

you're*

[quote]My guess is that in general older people today are far better prepared for retirement than 20 somethings will ever be at any time in their life.

100% true unless the 20somethings are already wealthy and have family money behind them. And this is because the conditions (affordable education, affordable housing prices, stable full-time jobs with pensions & healthcare, ability to save extra money) are all a thing of the past. The conditions that allowed today's older generations to build wealth and have savings and own their own homes don't exist anymore R65. Long gone.

That must be acknowledged. Younger generations (most of Gen-X and below) face a very different societal and financial landscape for attempting to build wealth and by the time they become the older generations the SS system will be bankrupt or gone and many of the other things they worked for will be gone. And every year this gets worse for average Americans. There are so many documentaries and studies about this out there yet we keep pretending. The last statistic I saw was that 2/3rds of Americans couldn't raise $1000 for an emergency. It actually might have been $500. Think about that. I'll try and find it and post it shortly. These people aren't thinking about saving. Saving what? They are working several low paid casual jobs and trying to figure out how to pay the rent and put food on the table.

And the vast majority of this older generation, who have been in political and corporate power for the last 3 decades - have done exactly nothing about climate change and they still aren't doing anything about it today because ultimately they don't care because they've got theirs and fuck everybody else.

What we need is these ancient walking political mummies - many of whom can barely speak or walk anymore and belong in a nursing home - out of politics so that we can try and save what they've done to America. These old people cling to power to protect what they have at all costs.

And finally - for most of us now - there will be no retirement. We will need to keep working until we die unless we are wealthy or have generational family money.

I have saved. I have invested. I’ve even ramped it up at the expense of short term gains. But it still feels like it won’t be enough.

Nearly half of American households have no retirement savings.

In 2022, about 46% of households reported any savings in retirement accounts. Twenty-six percent had saved more than $100,000, and 9% had more than $500,000.

57% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency expense, says new report. When unexpected expenses crop up, having a safety net to catch you when you fall can help minimize the financial fallout. But in a struggling economy, Americans’ emergency savings are taking a hit.

According to Bankrate’s Annual Emergency Fund Report, 68% of people are worried they wouldn’t be able to cover their living expenses for just one month if they lost their primary source of income. And when push comes to shove, the majority (57%) of U.S. adults are currently unable to afford a $1,000 emergency expense.

When broken down by generation, Gen Zers (85%) and millennials (79%) are more likely to be worried about covering an emergency expense.

Faced with a $1,000 emergency, most Americans say they wouldn't have the money.

A majority of Americans say they would struggle to pay for a $1,000 emergency expense, with a record share saying they would have to turn to credit cards to cover the cost, according to a new study released Wednesday.

Only 4-in-10 Americans said they could cover an emergency of $1,000 or more using funds from their savings account, the new Bankrate survey found. Although that's roughly the same share of Americans who found themselves in this financial position last year, about 25% of Americans surveyed said they would need to cover an unexpected $1,000 expense using a credit card, the highest percentage on record, Bankrate said.

R137 I remember dreading car repairs when I was younger.

r97 we have offices in Canada and Spain and every single person I've met and talked to from there LOVE their health care systems and the other things they get (Canada has "free" day care). In the meantime, my company just decided to stop paying as much towards the American employees health care so I'm going from paying $40 per month, to $400.

This shit never is going end. We are just getting more and more screwed in this country and it's NEVER going to get better.

The thing is it's not just younger people now R138. It's 60% of all Americans from various age groups. It's very worrying.

Re the posters above who say “privatize social security” (let people invest as they wish) and if they succeed, great; if they screw up, the government won’t bail them out.

That is the way the US was before social security existed.

People took home 100% of their (after income tax) pay and saved, invested, or not for their retirement. Guess what, most did very poorly. Combination of reasons: they didn’t know “how” to strategically invest; they didn’t understand the long term benefits of compounding; immediate life needs got in the way of long term planning; or, they were unlucky, poor or just uneducated.

That is [italic] why [/italic] FDR created a system to take a portion of people’s earnings and force it to be put aside for retirees.

It’s not perfect. Some smart people could do better; but most of the population couldn’t . . . and didn’t.

Those who champion “privatizing” are actually demanding a return to those pre-social security days.

We need to fix the current system while there’s still time; not throw everyone back down into the well we climbed out of.

[quote] we have offices in Canada and Spain and every single person I've met and talked to from there LOVE their health care systems and the other things they get

It’s not surprising that people would love something that they perceive as free. The question is would Canadians still love their healthcare system, specifically the quality and accessibility, if they had to pay a huge amount at the door for every service they received? Or is it that the “free” part is masking how they would view all other aspects of the system?

R142 I think it's that they don't have to worry about it, whether they're poor or not. Also, if you compare socialised health systems with the US privatised system, Americans STILL overall pay more, so it's not more efficient.

I mean, Logan’s Run made good points, OP. Can’t have a senior crisis if they don’t exist.

R143, so Canadians only love it because of the perceived price?

[quote]How do we fix the looming American non-retirement and aging crisis?

As a 70 year old who will have to work until I die, the solution seems simple to me.

Give all 70 year olds who will have to work until they die $1,000,000.

No, r145, Americans (largely) can only think about these things in financial terms because nothing is more important than money to them. Never mind the time to earn that money/benefit and admin time to get that healthcare.

I'm Australian and we fucking LOVE our healthcare system. It's called Medicare - similar to the NHS. We all pay for it from our taxes (1.5% of your earnings I think) and it's there if we ever need it for as much and as long as we need it whether we are rich or poor. The level of care is top notch. It's for everybody so even if you don't work and pay taxes it doesn't matter - everybody can use it when they need it. It's something which is just an intrinsic part of our lives. I can't imagine what it would be like to not have it always there. I don't understand the US healthcare system and hearing stories about it confuses and scares the shit out of me. Not to mention the medication prices in the US. It's fucking criminal what you guys have to deal with.

R147, I guess I should have known you’d just say no, without actually addressing whether with Canadians it’s because of the quality and ease of access or just because of the perceived price.

Americans do pay more for healthcare.

They often get more, too. If you need a hip replacement in the US they do it as soon as it can be scheduled: a week or two in advance. In Canada, for that as with many other services, you'll wait. A long time. The recommended 6 month time frame from diagnosis to surgery is only met two-thirds of the time. It's the same for many other procedures.

R148 If, as in Canada, the system itself is so terrific, why do so many Australians and Canadians pay money to buy private health insurance so they can bypass the national system? Is it the delays, the quality of care, the facilities?

r150 and yet you will not get a political mandate for privatised healthcare in the UK/Aus/Canada any time soon. Polling is very clear that people like it and want to keep it. Sorry about that.

Soylent Green

[quote]Soylent Green

I would prefer the $1,000,000, but I'm okay with this alternative.

R150 How's that 'more health care' working out for you?

Australia life expectancy: 83.40

Canada life expectancy: 81.63

UK life expectancy: 80.70

US life expectancy: 76.33

Americans don't get that those who get great care do so at the expense of someone else.

In more socialised systems like the UK and France , you get shorter wait times for non-vital specialists and private (sometimes better, sometimes the same with private beds) facilities, but the level of care is the same for everyone otherwise.

[...]

You basically need to be a millionaire now to live comfortably in retirement. And if it's not that way yet, it will be soon.

“ They often get more, too. If you need a hip replacement in the US they do it as soon as it can be scheduled: a week or two in advance.”

Utter bullshit. My mom had two. My dad one. Each time, it had to be scheduled at least 2 months in advance. This is the norm not the exception.

[quote] I hate to disappoint you, OP, but I retired last month at the age of 61. My retirement income is quite secure, and I make slightly more than I did when working full time. I own my home and have excellent health insurance. Some of us planned ahead. It's not always doom and gloom.

Fabulous for you, r2, but we're going to euthanize all of your friends whose income is less than quite secure at 62.

My Canadian and Spanish coworkers know how much they pay into the system to get the benefits of socialized health care. Every single one of them I've talked to about it say, "Yeah, our income is lower, BUT we don't have to worry about health care." Not a single one of them is under some delusion that it's "Free."

And yep, here in the USA any type of surgery unless it's emergency surgery is a LEAST a two month wait, if not more. I had to cancel my dental appointment last week for just a simple cleaning. The earliest they could reschedule me for was June.

[quote] And yep, here in the USA any type of surgery unless it's emergency surgery is a LEAST a two month wait, if not more. I had to cancel my dental appointment last week for just a simple cleaning. The earliest they could reschedule me for was June.

Yes, that makes sense to use the issue with your dental hygienist to extrapolate the minimum amount of delay for all surgeries in the U.S.

Oh do shut up, r161. You missed the point entirely.

R158 Your mother and father's wait times have about as much statistical validity as mine (my husband's first knee was done on Halloween at Tufts having been diagnosed in mid-October, the second in January because they'll only do one at a time) and my hip at the New England Baptist, where some of the first hip replacements were done) was done a week after the surgeon confirmed replacement was required. Both doctors, btw, are highly regarded as you might expect given the hospitals where they practice. Maybe we just got lucky on the scheduling but - apart from delays from Covid protocols when not as many ops could be scheduled - that's been the norm for people I know, most of them in New England.

The standards mentioned are Canada's, set by a government commission, saying the hip-replacement candidates should be operated upon with 182 days (6 months) but that only 2/3rds of them are done within that time frame. If your parents waited two months, that's still four months sooner than the lucky ones who get the surgery in Canada within six months. And presumably a lot less than the third of Canadian patients who don't get the surgery performed in the time the government says it should take. Which is already a helluva lot longer than your parents or my husband and I got ours done.

Easy Peasy

R163, do you live in Canada? No? The shut the fuck up.

R163 Why?

The poor female billionaire can’t catch a break. Hammered and attacked by Trump and MAGA. Hammered and attacked by The Queens of the DL. Hated by those she opposes hated by those she supports.

What’s a girl to do?

I am a couple of years away from retirement and will be ok. That said, I have nowhere close to what the talking heads say I should have saved for retirement. I touch the line for income and the social security cap and have NO issue if that cap was substantially increased. It should be to improve the quality of life for less fortunate and to preserve social security. The Medicare age also needs to be cut to 62 to match social security eligibility age to help push some towards earlier retirement. And if not early retirement, so many don't choose to retire - they are retired out of their own control.

I do feel sorry for the younger generations due to student loan debt and the costs of purchasing a house - their ability to save for retirement is going to be severely challenged - let alone those are the generations that will be taking care of us.

If only there was a way for young Americans to spend a few years serving their country and then have college paid for. Just think of that start in life serving others, doing something for country, not just yourself , and having college paid for.

Far to many won’t serve a day, won’t consider living at home and going to a much cheaper cc and then want to spend dacdes later bitching about the loans they took out and how unfair it is to repay.

Lucky for some of them Joe needs votes.

R169 is an unimaginative moron, except for their spelling.

Not everyone qualifies for military service.

There's no GI Bill for social service.

Not all people are college material.

College doesn't guarantee shit.

Humans make mistakes.

There is no required financial literacy education in the United States.

It's impossible for it to be a solution too because even the military doesn't have places and that funding for every single person even if everyone tries to do as what you say. So what are you going to do about the rest?

R171 R170

Are you looking for ways to help or a single solution that will solve everyone’s problems?

First of all service to country and college after or money to pay off student loans is not just from the military. There are civilian programs available. Amer corps and Peace Corps being just two.

I am guessing that people that can’t pass college entrance exams don’t have a lot of college loans to pay off. But like Donald trump we can all come up with reason why we don’t serve in any way and have never tried to serve in any way.

The US military has had a recruiting crisis for years. Because we are a country of trump like non serving remf s. But those that actually try can get wavers to join.

Today you can get a waver for almost anything. But the trump-like Americans do t know that because they have never tried.

All said without calling anyone a moron

So we should prop up the military with our tax dollars so that a few years down the road, the veterans can have free or reduced college tuition, BUT we can't afford to cut out the middle man, reduce defense spending and directly just give kids free or reduced college education because MAH TAXES! SOCIALISM!!

Is that the argument?

There is no tuition credit as red-tape free at the GI Bill. The rest require you to take the loans out first,.messing with cash flow when your earning power is at its weakest.

R173

Putin agrees with you. Don’t prop up the US military. Don’t serve. Refuse to help. Pray for world peace.

The US military is a bloated organisation that is too large for its purpose. Period.

Your condescending tone is being matched when you're being called a moron.

Sometimes it's better to be quiet and pressure test your self perceived brilliance before preaching it.

Oh no, not the dreaded "Russian agent" argument! Show us your honorable discharge papers, R175.

We have men on this forum who are approaching middle age approaching retirement and claim they don’t have a pot to'piss in. No future prospects at all except for bad ones.

Could not afford college or can’t pay off the loans for college, can’t afford the money for a down payment on a house, can’t get a federal or state job, bad or no Heath insurance, have no skills that will get them hired and a seeming no hope for the future. They post here regularly.

An 18 yo gay man today that wants to serve others, could enlist in the US Army on a medic contract, get trained in medicine, have a job taking care of others either sick or injured, qualify for a LPN degree before their enlistment is up, then have 4 years of college money available after they get out, and a no down payment house loan, and extra points when trying to get a federal and often state job, md access to health care..

And extra protection during RIFs.

Just think of how much better life would be for those that follow that path vs the path of sad useless complaining years from now about how unfair life is, how unlucky they have been, how bad they can’t afford a house, no heath insurance worth a damn, how sad they have no skills worth getting hired and paid for.

The unprepared the soft the weak those without solid futures are going to be in for a real shock when things actually start to turn bad.

They won't all qualify after taking the ASVAP. It's not a one size fits all solution. Just because there is a path, it doesn't mean it is THE path.

If Britain didn't have the hate filled muslims, the NHS budget would be much lower, incest causes two headed retarded babies that require much care and money, and it's disgusting.

After high school, I went and talked to a recruiter at the Air Force because I thought about that path that r178 describes. They told me I was too fat to join and my response was, "Isn't that what basic training is for?"

Also, there's that possibility that you could, you know, DIE in a war. Had I joined, I would have gone to Desert Storm and Desert Shield and who fucking knows what would have happened to me?

Hell, at the time I wanted to join, gay people weren't allowed to join. I thought about the Peace Corps to pay off my student loans but I have major anxiety over going to third world countries so that was not an option for me. I paid off all my loans that I took out for college though it took me 18 years to do so. I had 9% interest (the 90s) so I borrowed $30000 and by the time they were paid off, I had paid them $80,000 in interest. Seriously.

9% interest on student loans is criminal. They are an investment in our future - they should be no interest or some token amount of interest.

[quote]Hell, at the time I wanted to join, gay people weren't allowed to join.

Yeah, even without that now, a surprising number of people aren't allowed to join. "Only 23% of Americans aged 17 to 24 are eligible to join without being granted a waiver." (2022 figures)

I've never been allowed to join either, because of a congenital issue although at least I haven't wanted to.

Artificial Intelligence will put about 50 % of the workforce out of a job so it won't be just the elderly wondering how to survive the rest of their life without a job. There will probably have to be some sort of guaranteed minimum income that will keep people from starving but good luck having any fun on that level of income.

R15 I certainly don’t have 10 million saved for retirement. Lol.

R170, I would also note the suggestion that all young people should "consider living at home" during college, which often is not possible if you are a foster kid, if you or your family are unhoused or in a crisis shelter.

[quote] The US military has had a recruiting crisis for years. Because we are a country of trump like non serving remf s. But those that actually try can get wavers to join.

Trump has said that members of the military are losers.

IMO the only thing that will help the most people is to change from the rampant system of capitalism to something more beneficial to the population as a whole. As long as the level of corporate greed in this country is as high as it is not much is going to change for those who are well off financially. We have to make the benefits of huge corporate profits more lucrative for the workers. Companies who enjoy windfall profits, especially like we're seeing since COVID and the rampant inflation we have now, should be taxed like crazy on those profits, not just allowed to reap all those benefits and not pass one cent of it down to their workers. I certainly don't advocate socialism as that has proven time and time again to ultimately not work. As I see it the only way to accomplish something like that is to completely and totally destroy the republican party so the democratic party has the power to enact the reforms needed. And since that's never going to happen (at least in the lifetimes of most on this forum) we'll just have to be happy with the small things that help.

OP, don't worry so much. We'll all be dead sooner whether from another super-virus, nuclear dirty bombs, WW3, or climate change.

[quote] who are NOT well off financially

All the illegal aliens will save us.

If not them, the interplanetary aliens will.

Dear God how we need an alien intervention. Maybe they could swoop in, kill all the troublemakers, and leave the rest of us to live in peace.

“I need a just a few thousand dollars for an emergency. Guess I’ll just go into the safe and get a gold bar.”