Lover, Stalker, Killer- Netflix

I saw a Dateline or 20/20 about this case. You're right, it's fucking BATSHIT.

WATCH THIS!!!

It will be more effective if you nothing about the case.

I was on the edge of my seat.

What’s the case about?

r3 it's about a man who was dating a woman and weird shit started happening with her. Just watch it, it's such a fucked up story.

Watching as I type.

What’s the guy’s name? Who was she?

I'm good. I have enough crazy looking at y'all carry on about this show.

This was phenomenal. Without spoiling anything, I pretty much knew exactly what was going on but I could not look away. Chilling. Worth getting Netflix for a month and canceling before renewal.

It's a fucking bore. The case may be interesting (pathetic is more like it), but the filmmaking is sub- ID Discovery level. Man, Netflix just serves to the lowest shelf these days.

I'm looking forward to the Lifetime made for TV movie version of this story, "Mother, May I Love, Stalk, Kill with Danger?" starring Tori Spelling.

I need to know more about Jim Doty, the sheriff's investigator with the absolutely heinous "Western" wardrobe and the Village People leatherguy mustache.

Aw, damn—you got me all excited, OP, but I've seen this case covered a number of times, both from true crime youtubers and I think, 48 Hours, so I already know everything that happens. I imagine it's the twist that makes the documentary?

Me too, R11

Completely agree with earlier comments to watch this show without any prior knowledge of the case. That’s what I did and was totally engrossed.

Guys- sorry if you knew about the case prior- this thing will definitely not hit at all if you already know the outcome.

I lived in a bubble circa 2012-2014 so this one was all new to me.

And I am a true crime fan-

If you don't know about this, I was spellbound.

I do think its Discovery Channel level quality, but it was very effective.

This guy is such an asshole, he really seems to think he's cute too, he's not. Once again, Netlfix drags out a 30 minute story. But at least they aren't trying to get an obviously guilty guy off, so there's that. This asshole should be shamed for continuing to __ that cunt __.

I could smell the ending from a mile away, but it was an okay documentary. I don’t get the appeal of the guy this woman was hot for, but then she looked like the dirty end of a floor mop. I guess he’s Nebraska hot?

She was Iowa smart

The guy was a typical straight guy. He wanted to fuck women. Alot.

The only time i did not like him was when (kind of a spoiler- but not really). he needed to be talked into staying with his ex wife and kids by that (very cute) chunky bear of a cop. That was depressing. This should have been a no-brainer for him.

I found Jim Doty's Facebook. It's locked down, but in the "About" section it says he was engaged (to a woman) last year. His profile pic is him in a tight T-shirt, tattoos poking out, with that huge cowboy hat and Village People mustache. He's oddly hot.

He is HOT, i even love his buddy, the chunky. due with the beautiful eyes

Doty is quite cute without the handlebar mustache

MINOR SPOILERS IN MY POST -- YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!!!

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I'm not a "blue lives matter" type, but it was kind of cool to see a true crime docuseries in which the cops were neither negligent or abusive. Good detective work by those guys. I especially liked the aspie IT investigator. In case you're wondering, he happens to be posting on a Reddit true crime subreddit and answers a few questions that people had about specifics of the case. He also shares that he's healthy and doing well after his brain tumor (which is nice to hear.)

Sounds like a title to a Lifetime TV movie.

R22 - in that pic, he looks like a beefier, better looking Kenny Loggins.

Sounds twadry and soap-like. Did it happen in Genoa City?

It's incredibly soap like, R26. It happened in some trashy, tattoo laden place. Ohio, maybe.

The documentary does NOT explain why where was so little criminal and justice support to these adults and children after the fire and the pets burned alive. The deadly threats had been happening for over a year at that point.

Also the husband/father/boyfriend was a dork in the photos of young Dave Kroupa but the actor Chris Maher is handsome.

We watched it last night.

What a wacked woman and it was scary she had children.

Spoilers:

The bitch is absolutely crazy and deserves to spend the rest of her life behind bars.

What makes me roll my eyes HARD is that after all of this happened, her target (the Ginger), was considering getting back together with the mother of his kids, anyhow.

Duh! Of course he would, ESPECIALLY after sampling the dating pool in Nebraska, & realizing that these chicks were quite "handsome" women, who were also batshit crazy and clingy, as far as he knew, at that moment in time.

What a stupid bitch. I'm sorry, but she's the definition of an evil cunt. She killed her pets and ruined her family home and the lives of her kids, including ruining the life of another child and family, all over dick.

I still don't understand how this man and his ex wife were just left hanging for years with all those crazy threats.

Because the police thought it was someone who they were literally unable to find (because she was dead). I think the filmmakers purposely downplayed what the cops were doing or not doing because if they would have said they were searching for Cari then the viewer would have figured the plot twist out much earlier. Another strike against them and this shitty doc.

Here's a review of this from the NYTimes. It doesn't give the twists away (although thethread has by now), but it's useful if you want a vague idea of what the case was about.

When people like OP say you should know absolutely nothing whatsoever about it going in other than the title or it will be ruined for you, they're just being control freaks. You need to know something about it, or why would you see it in the first place?

[quote] When people like OP say you should know absolutely nothing whatsoever about it going in other than the title or it will be ruined for you, they're just being control freaks. You need to know something about it, or why would you see it in the first place?

You're an aspie, aren't you?

Watched it this morning...

That crazy bitch was dumb.

Cops say they need more "communications" from the supposed killer so she goes home that night and types up new "evidence" to give them.

R33 yes I'm the one asking why the cops weren't doing more but I agree the documentary may have avoided the topic for 45 minutes. Shit move.

[quote] You're an aspie, aren't you?

Nope.

You might want to get an actual diagnosis.

You're an asshole, aren't you?

There's my diagnosis for you, for free.

And you're not a comedian.

Oh hun: and you actually think you are one?

So, so sad.

R40's post made me laugh, so he/she is a comedian as far as I'm concerned.

Now, back to this crazy bitch... she truly is EVIL.

And I'm baffled as to why all of these women wanted this guy? Was it for free mechanic services on their vehicles? There must be slim pickings in that town.

The bald IT/Digital Forensics detective is sexy, but he's about it in this sordid mess.

What's so tragic is that this bitch had everyone convinced that Cari had gone off the deep end, when in fact, she was dead. Her poor son waited for years for his mom to return.

This case also drove home my long standing suspicions about many in law enforcement, who will do anything to not catch a body, or actually solve a case.

Ann Rule (crime writer) is dead now but her daughter wrote her first true crime book on this. it's pretty good. Dave Kroupa is an ugly piece of shit. He always tries to play an "aw shucks" game in his interviews on crime shows and you can tell they all hate him. He's not cute, he continued to fuck the crazy one and he just sucks. Netflix sucks and so do re-enactment shows. Read the book and then google the characters.

R44, I somewhat agree with your analysis regarding Dave Kroupa.

On one hand, he had only known Cari for 2 weeks, and therefore it was easy for him to be manipulated into believing that Cari was a nut job, & he had indeed, dodged a bullet.

However, he was also kind of dumb. You can usually size a person up pretty well after spending almost every week night with them after 2 weeks. Cari wasn't some crazy, irresponsible chick. She had a son at a young age, but she went back to school, got her degree, held on to a decent job, supported her son as a single mom & provided him with a decent home. Why on earth would she want to move in with someone she knew for 2 weeks?

The one who was relentlessly pushing him for a commitment was Liz. I find it odd that he didn't once wonder if Liz had something to do with this.

He was just a run of the mill yokel, who wanted to get laid as much as possible, after spending 10 years with the mother of his kids.

He's a bit dim, perhaps even self centered and/or selfish, and I'd even question whether or not he enjoyed the drama of it all, but these characteristics don't make him a criminal.

I do hope his ex let him go completely, & found herself a more appropriate partner, if she desired to do so. I would not want him around, as he has proven to make disastrous relationship choices, but that's just me. What do I know?

Yes R45. I think he enjoyed the drama too and that makes him even more hateable. And the fact that he told Liz every detail about this and continued to bang her...I forgot about the dead animals. Yeah, he's deliberately obtuse and I hope his ex is done with him now. And Liz is an ugly cunt so the fact he fucked her many times really speaks about him. The suspension of disbelief needed to be this dumb for years..."You got your house burned down? I did too!" Shut up.

I was certain they were going to find Cari's body in Liz's burned-down house. When Liz was circling the ex-wife's house multiple times per day, why didn't the ex-wife notice anything? All she did was look out the window and there was no one around for miles. Even a small amount of critical thinking on the victims' parts would have gone a long way.

And yes, I am all in on the erotic adventures of the metrosexual cowboy sheriff and his burly bear of a partner, solving crimes and learning the tender art of man love out on the plains.

If anyone doesn't want to sit through three fucking drawn out hours of a netflix show, here is the "That chapter" on it. Or should I say "tree" hours of the show?

The cops never said how the murder likely took place. Cari was stabbed in her vehicle, due to the amount of trace blood evidence found. How did Liz get in her vehicle?

She probably waited outside Dave's house and grabbed her, she was a largish woman, right? If you're a woman going to your car and someone grabs and stabs you, you're fucked.

[quote] Oh hun: and you actually think you are one?

No, I was being serious. Your ridiculous bullshit "analysis" was total aspie speak. There was no joke there.

R48 My Netflix documentary is 1.5 hours. Where is the 3 hour one you refer to?

Oh R52, Sorry, I haven't seen the netflix doc as I hate them and their shitty docs designed to get clearly guilty people off. Making a murderer was like 47 hours so I just assumed they drew this out too. I apologize. I wonder if they mention the absolute plethora of texts from the clearly fucking unhinged Shanna/Liz. Cause there were so fucking many that I wonder how Dave Kroupa is able to live alone without a handler to make sure he doesn't accidentally swallow razor blades or something. He's a dipshit.

Why don't you watch it. It's not trying to get guilty people off. The texts are a big part of the story.

These people. If I am on a first date and bring the person to my home and *coincidentally * the person I dated previously but hadn't seen for weeks shows up I am getting a restraining order. People are either naive or willfully stupid.

This Liz psycho reminded me of that other crazy-eyed psycho Stephanie Lazarus, the LAPD cop who murdered her ex-boyfriend's wife and got away with it for many years before she was caught. Such a sad and twisted story.

I’m about 20 minutes into this show, and haven’t read this thread yet, and don’t know the story, but I think I know the ‘twist’

* Potential spoiler* but really just my guess

Liz is pretending to be Cari. She got pissed when Dave started sleeping with Cari and probably killed her, but definitely took her phone and started sending the texts. She wanted Dave’s attention again. Im mostly basing this on the fact that Liz immediately was at Dave’s place the first time he brought Cari over. She had been watching them and wanted to stop the potential hookup. She’s crazy.

Maybe there’s another twist, but that’s my prediction.

R57 There are other twists. Liz does kill Cari but they had been lesbian lovers. Cari is actually Dave's half sister. Dave only finds this out towards the end when the police are hot on case. Cari's mother knew all along of course. The final twist is that Liz is intersex and only presenting as a woman. She doesn't have a uterus. That's one of the reasons she is enraged about Cari. And also she hates her own kids who are all adopted. Dave has a small dick so never discovered that Liz's vagina is not very deep.

^^ you forgot that officer Jim used to be Joanne, a stripper from Des Moines who knew Liz when they went to cosmetology school together

R57 here. Knew it. How did no one question the fact that Cari hadn’t been seen in two years and just accepted that she was sending the texts/emails? There would’ve been some trail of her. I felt bad for her mother. She seems like a nice, gentle person.

Dave is dumb. No more online dating for him.

R60 Exactly. And I fucking guarantee that Liz is a moron and has shit grammar, and that Cari probably didn't, until she did. And I bet Liz misspelled all the same words in all her different personas and dipshit Dave never noticed it.

It blows my mind that her family - who she was close to - didn't do anything for TWO YEARS. I mean really? WTF? They never saw her.

Yeah R62, it's weird they didn't but then what could they do? I would have fucking tracked her down or something but I think she was a little...difficult maybe, maybe had a substance or mental health issues and they couldn't really figure out what was really happening. Her poor son.

On Reddit folks are saying that despite it usually being not-so-great, the Dateline episode on this case is actually better than the Netflix doc. Anyone seen it?

*spoiler*

I knew it was Liz because they didn't interview her

R64 Yes, and it was good. I saw the dateline which made me buy the book because Leslie Rule is on it. I then listened to the "That Chapter" and now I don't need to see this. The dateline made me side eye Dave so hard.

I have a feeling the Netflix doc is leaving a lot out. I’d venture there was some effort put into searching for Cari, and some knowledge that her disappearance was odd and not traceable. The Netflix series focused away from that, I think, because it would have lessened the impact of the “twist”. I don’t know, but I suspect the dateline episode filled in more gaps.

This could be a good movie if you made Dave a woman (Davida) and all the other women lesbians. Also write in some more Davida girlfriends for Liz to terrorize and possible kill.

20/20 episode

Lifetime movie

Maybe I just watched too many soaps growing up but I figured it out right away.

But Jesus, what a psycho.

R65 true, I didn’t think of that.

R67 good point. I would hope there was some more searching for her than what Netflix showed us. It was like, she’s gone, but still sending texts, so must be alive. It wasn’t until two years later when that one cop was like, hmm, no one’s seen her in two years, maybe she isn’t sending these texts. Let’s check the ip addresses of the emails.

What a psycho. She burned down her house and killed her dogs, cats, and snake over fucking Dave? Were her two kids already grown when she met Dave? I know Cari’s kid was still young.

R70 Zach Gilford is… generous casting. I’ll have to watch that.

Thanks r69, I’ll check that out

R72, at first glance, one would think she committed these heinous crimes over Dave, but I don't think so.

I think Liz was just an evil sociopath, and I'd bet a decent chunk of money that she had a pattern of stalking, and causing others harm before this happened.

I believe she derived a sick pleasure from breaching boundaries, invading the privacy of others, and causing mayhem, in general.

She didn't really want Dave. She wanted control & power. She's probably gotten away with shit for MANY years, & this time, she overplayed her hand, and got caught.

She didn't give one flying fuck about Dave, her own children, her pets, her home, or anyone.

Liz is a sick and evil monster who thrives on drama.

Ok. Anyone with two dogs, two cats, and a giant fucking snake is hoarding animals and is 100% certainly batshit.

Having a snake alone makes you batshit. And should have been a huge red flag.

Pretty surprised Netflix produced this, as this fucking story has already gotten a lot of coverage. Too much actually.

Dave is not a likeable protagonist and has a very punchable face. I hope he gets syphilis.

The minute Liz shows up at his apartment right when he comes home with Cari, I knew where it was going.

R76 Preach! His gross strawberry blond beard...and yeah, he's done about a million shows about this but continues to do the whole, "I don't get it, I'm not that great of a catch" bullshit.

He reminds me of this piece of shit who even wrote a book about his experience, and also does the talk show circuit.

Thanks OP, I really enjoyed it. I didn’t know anything about the case.

I’m not understanding the hating Dave. He seemed like a basic mechanic from Nebraska. Probably barely finished high school? How do you all expect him to act?

Loved the IT guy. He really solved the case - first with the IP address and then with the photo of the foot.

Very sad at the end. Glad there was some closure for Cari’s mother and son.

Liz is truly a psycho. She’s probably up to some crazy antics in the women’s prison.

What's Oz doing these days?

Another bitch with Borderline Personality Disorder.

Why did Liz leave him? Did she want to make sure she wasn’t found guilty of murder?

R82, she left him because she's a manipulative deviant who wanted to do several things at once:

1) Play the role of a frightened victim who was willing to leave behind the man she 'loved', in order to protect herself & her children, after their home went up in flames;

2) Then practically move in with the subordinate of the digital forensics analyst/detective, in order to stay abreast of any new developments in the case, so that she might possibly influence the direction & outcome of the case by planting ideas in aforementioned subordinate's mind, after fucking him during pillow talk time.

Again: Liz was all about power, dominance & control... NOT love.

Run, don't walk into a grease fire, OP.

Ugly, straight, flyover, frau who kills her own dog. Spoiler alert- it sucks.

Far superior is American Nightmare. At least the killer was hot and in San Francisco.

What about us R84?

SPOILER ALERT

I think Netflix omitted a lot of details to build up suspense for the twist ending. According to an American Crime segment about this story, after Cari’s mother had filed a missing person’s report the local police had long suspected that Cari was dead because there wasn’t any activity on her checking account or credit cards. So if Cari were still alive, where was she getting any money to survive for two years?

Quelle surprise. Netflix always omits details, like that the people they make docs about are guilty.

The Lifetime movie was ok. Alicia Witt played the psycho.

Omg there's a Lifetime movie too? Hahaha

Truly next level behavior to burn your own house down with your animals inside.

Batshit fucking crazy.

This story was just on the 20/20 limited series Blind Romance this past Monday.

R86, did you even watch this thing?

R83, she wanted him and was then after his ex-wife. It makes no sense why she would leave letting him find someone else. They obviously left shit out. They should have researched her life. Did she have previous charges. These documentaries are terrible.

Someone needs to make a show called Nebraska Bachelor. You can have all these hillbilly psychos burning their houses down and murdering each other to get at Dave, the witless bachelor. That’s a Bachelor series I’d watch.

Great idea, R94. Instead of the flower ceremony, they can exchange matches and lighter fluid.

[quote]SPOILER ALERT I think Netflix omitted a lot of details to build up suspense for the twist ending.

There was a twist ending?

Or I guess that series was the Jerry Springer Show…

So did she have an auto payment thing set up for her phone? How did her phone stay on? I just watched the American Justice with hottie Dennis Mayberry and it's probably the best thing on this case. Fuck Dave again, "I'm not that hot, I don't know why they did this" Cause Liz is an ugly psycho, Dave. You're not hot, you're right about that.

I am glad that Liz didn't go after Dave's ex wife or their kids. I am also surprised, since the detectives said she used to circle their house in her car. I figured she'd attack the ex at some point.

They really got lucky.

I figured she circled to see if she’d catch Dave there. Her focus was stalking him.

[quote] Without spoiling anything, I pretty much knew exactly what was going on but I could not look away.

Same here. I could tell as soon as they said she had done a 180 in her tone about commitment BY TEXT, and then completely disappeared from her family’s life, what was what.

It actually surprised me how long it took the guy and the cops to figure it out.

But still despite having seen the twist coming down Fifth Avenue, I found it a fun watch.

She burnt her house down so she could go live with her on again off again cop boyfriend. The bald IT guy is the hero in all of this.

I can't imagine driving by or around someone's house regularly, just to see if they're home or if they have company, or if some dude's car is parked at his ex's house, or whatever.

What a total waste of time & gas.

Freakin' nut job. Ugh.

Definitely, R103. Some people are just mental deficients and losers though, I guess.

Thank you. OP! My husband had outpatient surgery today so we are staying close to home this weekend and looking for something new to watch, We love a crime mystery documentary. Most buy a bottle to make sippy poos tomorrow night while I watch. Cheers!

R105- It's really good. and thank you for being so kind and not telling me to die in a grease fire like that cunt above!!!!

And if you want another great one- check out Love Has Won- The Cult of Mother God on Max! Also disturbing and compelling!

I didn’t call you a cunt, OP, but I thought it.

The best part of this story is that there are 2 less Trump voters.

^Yeah, but from solidly red states, so of no matter.

On reddit they said she killed her baby too and her ex was doing time for it.

And here's the article. It's pretty harrowing.

What a horrendous piece of shit. Somebody should she shake HER ass to death.

Truly someone who needs a karmic "death-by-prison-shanking" if I've ever seen one.

Please don’t let her be … white?!

Please don't let her be...fat and ugly!

The IT guy at the police station she was dating was the boss, not the subordinate. And the running the texts and what not through foreign country VPNs was somewhat sophisticated. And Cari was an IT gal. What are the chances it wasn’t only about Dave. (Not implying that Liz is innocent, cause she’s not, but maybe a two person job)

I thought of that too r115. They sure seemed quick to eliminate him, didn’t they?

I don't get it R115, are you saying someone else was doing it with Liz?

I could see Liz bothering someone the cop thought had done him wrong, like a bad haircut or shitty drywall job and explaining to her how to do it safely.

Yes, she’s a blue collar cleaning company owner using sophisticated ISP hiding and how does her phone memory card wind up in Dave’s tablet? And why one picture only of the corpse with that very identifying tattoo. And her fingerprint is on box of mints, but no where else in the car?

Also all the detailed observation would make more sense if someone with access to security cameras was involved

It all makes sense once the twist comes into play. This was fun but Netflix left us with some open questions: Does no one in this part of the country have anything better to do? Is Dave good in the sack? How exactly did things fade out with Liz the first time just before she comes over and bumps into Cari.? Where is Cari? What happened to Todd, the dude Liz was living with? Is Todd still with the police? A good crime book would have had he messing the case up from the inside. Liz can't have figured out all that IP shit on her own.

I figured it out right away, but still was intrigued.

Aren’t you a regular Nancy Drew, R122. Now get to work on the JFK assassination. I understand there’s some doubt on that investigation.

Finally watched this last night. I already knew the larger facts because this case has been in the public eye for a while, but I enjoyed all the details it showed along the timeline.

I imagine Liz had a photo of Cari’s dead foot with the identifying tattoo because she thought she might need it at some point. Although it is strange that that SIM card from her phone ended up in that tablet. She must have been trying to use it for something and forgot in her haste, and/or was sure she had wiped it (they only were able to pull up the pixel-y thumbnails).

The single fingerprint on the candy container in the car is also odd.

I agree the Netflix doc was sub-par. Although I did enjoy a lot of the recreations. I’d like to check out the Dateline one.

It did seem odd that so many people in the story didn’t have serious suspicions earlier on, particularly Dave, and Cari’s mother.

More Women May Be Psychopaths Than Previously Thought (The Guardian, yesterday)

Well Dave is a fucking idiot R125, so that's not surprising.

I like Netflix true crime documentaries but my only complaint is that a lot of them are heavily condensed. A lot of complex cases are only covered in 3-4 episodes.

Seriously R128? I find it's the opposite, they drag shit out waaaay too long. Which cases are you thinking are too long?

the only explanation on why the women were going nuts for Dave is that he had a big dick. he seems pretty underwhelming otherwise.

Dave must have been hung like a baseball bat, because he was poor, homely, and had an ugly garden apartment with those crappy “next day blinds.”

Is the dating pool in that particular region that tragically limited?

Just the fact that this ginger who worked at Discount Tires had the nuts to say that he was only looking for a sexual relationship with Cari, who was way out of his league, pissed me off.

R61

There is another case where the guilty woman kept saying/spelling antifreeze this way: “antifree”. That was just one piece of evidence that tied it all together. Totally forgetting the circumstances but I know it was a wife who killed her husband with antifree.

Oh shit, I know that one R134. I can't think of her name. Didn't she try to blame it on her daughter?

Yes! Stacey Castor, though I don’t see antifree mentioned anywhere here:

Yes! Good find R136. I do remember the anti free though, probably it was on the Snapped about her.