What’s the backup plan for yourself if Trump wins the election

Puerto Vallarta, here I come!

Cyanide tablet

Pretending they didn't promise to leave America

The same plan after he won the first time: lots of food and chronic masturbation. But that’s also how I’ll celebrate if he loses. 🤷‍♂️

Waiting around to die.

We have a vacation house in British Columbia, we'll go there. After the last time, I don't think I can take MAGAmerica Part Deux. Too stressful and ugly and this time democracy will be over and done with forever. It'll be all-Fuckface von Clownstick all the time, forever.

I'll run like the coward I am.

Work with the Resistance.

I will continue to avoid the news cycle, and also will continue to avoid people who always talk about politics.

I’ll renegotiate my contract.

You go, Mel. Get that money, bitch!

Who cares? It'll be a ratings bonanza!

Don’t we say Joe really won and attack the Capitol?

MSNBC and CNN are praying that Trump will win.

Count me in R12.

Same as the first time.

I’ll be buying stock in Clorox Bleach.

Staying in California

Streisand, Cranston, DeNiro and Amy Schumer were among those who said they would leave the US if Trump was elected and even they had the means to do so none of them did.

Sorry R3 (^.^)

OP, are you fingering yourself at the thought of Trump winning?

🇨🇦

Claim the Russians did it

I’m in California so I would be okay, unless he starts wars, etc.

Back to the black market for me.

We hadn’t finished packing up the mall by the time his term ended, R18.

I’ll find the nearest tropic port and board a ramshackle charter boat owned by a pair of incompetent fools who’ll set sail for a “three hour” tour.

Oddly-phrased header question, Boris.

Same thing as last time.

Let's not get dramatic.

I can’t think about it. Let the suicidal ideation come in its own good time.

R21: X

Hawaii. It's like its own country anyway.

I’m in California, and it’s not okay if you live in a Republican County. These people are unhinged with their Trump banners and the constant coughing, contamination, and clogging up the hospitals and clinics with Covid cuz they won’t get vaccinated. Fuck, they won’t even get their dogs vaccinated for routine disease like Parvovirus. Not to mention the syphilis. They used to shame the gays for the STDs due to their free and easy ways, but believe me syphilis is on the rise among the straights. I think it’s gone to their brains…

Stay in the English or Scottish countryside. Husband has dual citizenship.

Pray Whoopi, Amy and Barbra make good on their 2016 declarations

Ugh enough with the people threatening to leave. Who cares?

It will suck big time if he wins. To be honest as long as Biden doesn't croak, I think he'll be reelected by the same coalition that got him past the fence last time. I think the polls will change once people start to remember how chaotic and ridiculous the Trump years were. Plus, and this is hard to imagine, his team this time around is even less able than his team in 2016.

Personally I'm gonna do as much as I humanly can to prevent more Trump years.

I’m with R7.

And polls are bullshit.

I'm leaving the country. My sister lives in the UK and she knows I'll be there if things go wrong. It's not just Trump, it's the Republicans. The Republican Party was heading in the direction of Fascism before Trump, he just injected it with steroids.

The same thing you did last time. Nothing except continue on with your histronics and constant Trump threads. Never being able to admit to yourself that your life would have been no different if Hillary had won. Maybe you'll dye your hair purple and start screaming but that's about it.

Biden will suspend the constitution and have that man under house arrest before he ceases control to a weak, carnival barker

Staying in California, lots of gay men, progressive Governor, majority Democratic congress, beautiful beaches, mountains, lakes, redwoods, good weather, great food, plenty of entertainment, good healthcare and more. CA is a diamond in a goats ass. Merica.

Suicide. I just haven't figured out how yet.

R39 actually thinks life wouldn't have been any different if Hillary had won?

Hillary wouldn't have dismantled the pandemic early warning & response team two years before a global pandemic hit like Trump did. She wouldn't have completely fucked up the response. She wouldn't have cut taxes for the wealthy. As a result, nearly a million people would likely be alive today that died under Trump, and the deficit wouldn't have exploded (a quarter of all the national debt ever racked up in this history of this country was accumulated under Trump). Further, she would have appointed good and decent supreme court justices, and women wouldn't have lost their bodily autonomy. She wouldn't have turned a blind eye (or rather, wouldn't have bended the knee and slobbered) to Putin, resulting in Putin likely NOT invading Ukraine. And she wouldn't have compromised our intelligence (getting many of our assets killed) the way Trump did. She wouldn't have sold out this country. Khashoggi would likely still be alive.

How in the FUCK can you imply there's no difference? FUCK YOU, you ignorant asshole.

R7 R12 Armchair revolutionaries

R41 Same. I love it here and I'm not going anywhere.

I'll get some silver bullets made, with names on them like TFG, Stone, Bannon, Flynn 1 and 2, Patel, Nunes etc etc....you get my drift.

I already left after the first time. I’d just make it permanent by getting my wealth out of the US before it’s expropriated.

Avoiding politics for 4 years.

[quote] I’m in California so I would be okay, unless he starts wars, etc.

Trump refused to start any new wars so the neocons ALL shifted to Biden. His wars you're ok with ?

R48 you can't avoid politics. Ever. Every single thing in our lives is affected by "politics." What we pay for gasoline or a loaf of bread, whether or not we get laws banning healthcare for some of us, whether we are restricted from conducting our lives the way we need to, the interest rate on a car or a house, the lack of affordable housing or the amount your rent increases, the quality of our healthcare and the accessibility of it, the quality of our schools and the lack of interference in educating kids, police and fire response time, maintenance or our parks, and roads and public buildings, whether or not we have reliable broadband, rules and regulations, licenses and fees, etc.,etc., etc.

R50, what you’re describing are the effects and outcomes of politics, not the actual politics. Yes, you can largely ignore politics, as million of Americans do.

Scorched earth.

[quote]R49: Trump refused to start any new wars so the neocons ALL shifted to Biden. His wars you're ok with ?

Which wars has Biden started?

Getting the hell out of Dodge.

What’s the backup plan if that senile mummy in the White House wins the election?

Who ever wins it’s a DISMAL prospect.

Avoidance. Which is my middle name, anyway.

I'm full-time caregiver for my Dad, who turned 96 last week, and I love him dearly, but I'm pretty much stuck and fucked. Red state, just swore in an EXTREME right-winger asshole that even our state Republicans detest.

But even more than I hate Trump and his minions, and our hew Governor, I HAAAAATE all the people who didn't vote. 29% turnout on THE most perfect, gorgeous clear day we'd had in months.

So, Extreme Avoidance, thy name is R56.

[quote]R55: What’s the backup plan if that senile mummy in the White House wins the election? Who ever wins it’s a DISMAL prospect.

What is it you think will happen if Biden wins?

Are you one of those Trumpies who thinks that the country is an apocalyptic hellscape under Biden?

If re-elected, there’s no way Biden will complete a second term.

R32

You should be happy to know that msm are still number one and still lead the way.

[quote]R58: If re-elected, there’s no way Biden will complete a second term.

Biden living to the age of eighty-six and beyond is entirely possible. Jimmy Carter is still alive at ninety-nine.

But if Biden doesn't make it through his second term, what of it? Kamala Harris will be sworn in. Do you think that shit, fire, and damnation will rain down from the skies if that happens? That the US will topple?

I want to go with r6.

[quote] But if Biden doesn't make it through his second term, what of it? Kamala Harris will be sworn in. Do you think that shit, fire, and damnation will rain down from the skies if that happens? That the US will topple?

So your opinion is that the U.S. could have a massively incompetent person like Kamala (worse than Trump) and it would have no impact on the country or the world?

R60 . . .

I think the odds are he's going to flop over dead from either a heart attack or stroke before then, so all of this is unlikely.

Portugal or Norway. Our search is going to heat up in the coming months.

An 81 year old man who has undergone surgery for two brain aneurysms.

What could go wrong?

R66

This could be an election where neither front runner makes it as far as the election due to health issues or death.

R62, you’re fucking HILARIOUS. We survived Trump, right???? You trying to tell us Kamala is ***worse*** than fucking Trump? GTFOH, here’s the door. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am no fan of Kamala Harris... I think she's a flop even by vice-presidential standards (and I know, I know, she gives great rally.) But even I roll my eyes at the notion the country couldn't muddle through with her in the big chair. Lots of mediocrities have been president before, lots may in future, assuming the country survives 2024.

Team R62

I plan on being on the other side of any wall. I have alway wanted to learn Spanish and live in Mexico. I would feel safer with Narcos than Rednecks with Militia fantasies.

Portugal or Costa Rica. I have a biker buddy who's building a house in Costa Rica as we speak, and a Portuguese neighbor who could probably help me to navigate a move there.

R47? Where did you go? In 2020, I voted early and got on a flight to Cancun the next day, just-in-case. I had rented a condo for three weeks with the option to stay. Thankfully, Biden won, so I didn't have to.

[quote]R62: So your opinion is that the U.S. could have a massively incompetent person like Kamala (worse than Trump) and it would have no impact on the country or the world?

And by "massively incompetent person," you mean black.

No, Stormfront, it could never be suggested of Kamala Harris that she would tear down the entire country to serve her own ego and for personal profit and political power.

No one is worse than Trump. 𝑁𝑜 𝑜𝑛𝑒.

Kamala Harris should NEVER be allowed anywhere near the Oval Office.

It’s fascinating the Kamala is considered a flop. I don’t think she has any charm and is a lackluster communicator.

But the role of VP is to be the standby. She hasn’t been any worse in the role than any VP in modern history.

Hmm, what might the difference be?

Stand back, Buenos Aires!

Kamala is just fine — this is a distraction from their circus freak show, fucking LOOK at the Repigs. They are a pathetic travesty, a stain.

Change my stock portfolio

Renew my porn hub subscription

Travel to red states and log on to Grindr

Look for ways to profit economically from the administration change.

Order a case of poppers

Buy a Ford F150 to fit in

[quote]I am no fan of Kamala Harris... I think she's a flop even by vice-presidential standards

What a load of crap. She's been amazing by vice-presidential standards. She's doing more, accomplishing more, and being more involved... WTF are you even smoking?

[quote]Kamala Harris should NEVER be allowed anywhere near the Oval Office.

She would literally be better than any other option you can mention at the time. She has the qualifications, experience, and accomplishments no one else can match right now. Again, WTF are you smoking?

[quote]It’s fascinating the Kamala is considered a flop. I don’t think she has any charm and is a lackluster communicator.

It's fascinating to me that people can think this is a factual statement. All I see is sexist/racist double-standards. Things are apparently expected of her that are expected of no other VP or POTUS candidate in history.

I would love to see her as President.

[quote]So your opinion is that the U.S. could have a massively incompetent person like Kamala (worse than Trump) and it would have no impact on the country or the world?

What a ridiculous assertion. Kamala Harris is highly competent and accomplished. Where do you GET this bullshit?

If Biden dropped out and there was an open primary it’s very doubtful the VP would become the nominee. Just not that popular. In a really close election a popular VP on the ticket helps.

Especially if everyone assumes that VP will-become the P when the 80+ yo potus can’t continue.

She is not a non issue. She is either a help to the ticket or the opposite.

Yet another Trumptard thread 🙄 Thank gawd we have dual citizenship.

[quote] Kamala Harris is highly competent and accomplished.

Not even in an alternate universe is that even remotely true.

Uninformed Trumptard troll^

My continued life of quiet desperation.

R83 Shut up, Boris. That talking point is so fucking old.

How big is your vacation house, R6?

Conspicuous consumption of Drugs, of course!

Celebrating that this mentally diseased mutherfucker can’t run for a third term.

Can I visit you r33?

Stay and fight but start looking seriously into cute Mexican towns.

He did not win the first time round. This is confirmed by the documents in the missing binder regarding foreign interference

Donald Trump May Have 'Sold' Classified Binder to Russia

[quote]Not even in an alternate universe is that even remotely true.

R83, it may not be true in an alternate universe, but it's certainly true in this one. What kind of ignorant delusion are you operating under that you can't accept this rather obvious fact?

[quote]Celebrating that this mentally diseased mutherfucker can’t run for a third term.

It's funny you think the Constitution will somehow constrain him.

Yes, R95 - if he gets in this time, it's the last time he'll need to rely on an election to do it. He plans to declare himself 'president for life,' for however long that lasts.

Actually, in November 2024, he's not so much banking on an election as trying to undermine the infrastructure elections are based upon. His MAGAts in every state are nibbling away like termites at election laws and procedures. It's like what he appointed Louis DeJoy to do to the USPS in order to damage the input of mail-in votes, except this effort is more broadly aimed at the rest of the ways elections are conducted. (Remember how Republicans set out fake mail-in ballot boxes in cities as a sort of catch-and-kill for peoples' votes? They'll go waaay beyond that this time.)

Catching Republicans dismantling this or that part of election infrastructure before November and trying to get court injunctions to stop it is probably where MAGAts will make the first jumps to violence, and it will spread from there.

Once all this nonsense is done, if we have the opportunity, we all have to look at the presidency itself. We should never be in this position of worrying about if the right guy gets elected we have a constitution. if the wrong guy, we don't.

R79, be careful, you'll burst that bubble you live in. The border. The end.

'The border' is bullshit, R98.

I think Kamala would be fine, but honestly, I have never understood why people who claim to love her actually do, if they really do.

R100, Because they are seriously mentally ill, like R79.

I will put shot-hole squints in the front of my house and finally buy a couple of AR-15s.

[quote]So your opinion is that the U.S. could have a massively incompetent person like Kamala (worse than Trump) and it would have no impact on the country or the world?

Drama queen much? Kamala was Atorney General of one of the largest states in the Union for 7 years, she was a US State Senator for 6 years, and will be a VP for 4 years. More experience that most presidents. How is that incompetent? ... other than your personal bias.

R103, Because within those combined 17 years, she accomplished absolutely nothing of significance.

[quote]I think the polls will change once people start to remember how chaotic and ridiculous the Trump years were. Plus, and this is hard to imagine, his team this time around is even less able than his team in 2016.

What R35 said.

I'd stay out, here in California.

Unless my employer finds a way to transfer me to our Canada offices. Then I'd be out quicker than you can say covfefe.

Where the hell did that comma come from?

R90 Please do. We can hang out at the pub and solve local mysteries. I'll finally be cold enough to wear some of these wool sweaters I've been dragging around for too many years.

[quote]. It's like what he appointed Louis DeJoy to do to the USPS in order to damage the input of mail-in votes,

Reminder - DeJoy is still Post Master General.

[quote]Because within those combined 17 years, she accomplished absolutely nothing of significance

R104, You call this nothing? Harris won a $20 billion settlement for Californians whose homes had been foreclosed on. She won $1.1 billion settlement for students and veterans who were taken advantage of by a for-profit education company. She defended the Affordable Care Act in court, enforced environmental law, and was a national leader in the movement for marriage equality. Go eat Donald's excrement with your MAGA "she did nothing" BS.

I love Kamala. For the symbolism alone - first fucking female prez baby! And every Republican there is makes her look fabulous!! She's kept her head down and done just fine as a workman pol - well, workwoman pol. Dems Rule!!!!!!!!!!!!! All of them goddammit. Get in line, like the christofascist repugs do!!

I think I meant "fall in line"

What's the quote? Democrats want to fall in love (with their candidate/leader). Republicans are happy to fall in line, see Turtle McConnell etc. If you don't like her, suck it up, because the alternative is abominable.

Nothing to do but admire my foresight in having moved from the U.S. while Trump was in office the first time (not because of him, but happy to have done so.)

Good timing in other words R113. Where did you move to?

R110, Joey placed her in charge of the border crisis and the thoroughly incompetent bitch has never even visited the area.

More staff members have resigned from her office than any other VPOTUS.

She embarrasses herself each time she delivers a speech.

The woman is disgraceful.

R115 has no concept of what disgraceful actually mean. Here's a tip, his name is Donald Trump.

I left the country during the first term. Covid convinced me it was time for a change and America was a hot ass mess. Right after George Floyd happened and NYC turned into a war zone, I already had my paperwork submitted to leave the States.

The only question that counts

Is she good for the ticket or not? Right now nothing else matters.

I have no children, so I won't be lying awake at night and worrying about their future.

I live in a blue state in a blue bubble.

I probably could claim Italian citizenship (which is not easy to do with all the paperwork et al) and move there, but I'm concerned about medical care. Also concerned about Nazi rallies in Rome. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

I have a long term partner and we're financially secure, though I worry about what will happen to the markets if TFG is elected.

Relative to many other people, I'm very lucky and in a relatively safe position.

I'm 70 years old with a chronic illness, so there's that.

And I'm glad my partner and I are on the downside of the slope. I have little hope for the future.

I'll coast till it's all over and stop watching news if only to maintain my sanity. Though I do have a large stock of Xanax for anxiety or anything else I might need it for.

That's the practicality. I'm not sure many of us have realistic options.

Trump would be a clear and present danger to our security and Intel. I'd hope that enough CIA and military would realize this and take care of the problem. He clearly sold Intel to foreign governments.

R120

I'm wondering why they haven't done that. Making me think that either 1) the cloak and dagger scenarios we imagine are all bullshit, or 2) TPTB want him right where he is; alive. It seems so obvious that he's put operatives in danger or gotten them killed, and at the same time destroyed any trust that existed between the U.S. and all other countries that cooperate on national and world security.

If he gets reelected we're on our own on the world stage as a failed state.

Any other suggestions or thoughts about why they haven't taken care of that already?

The ones with the irrational hatred of Kamala Harris are the mentally ill ones. And most likely the misogynist & racist ones too (their own forms of mental illnesses).

R115 feeds at the trough of propaganda. Turn off FOX News, dumbass, it rots your brain and makes you post stupid shit.

[quote]If he gets reelected we're on our own on the world stage as a failed state.

100%. The damage to allies opinions of the US will be immeasurable.

R123, Everything R115 posted is accurate and true.

It actually isn't dumbass at R125, which is why I called it out. That's a pack of lies, propaganda he was fed, that he actually believes is true, but which is bullshit nonsense.

You poor, pathetic, misguided fool, R126.

You sad Troll, r127.

Kamala won no primaries or caucuses. She had no popularity. She was chosen by her party to be the VP candidate because she’s a woman, and not white.

[quote] She's been amazing by vice-presidential standards. She's doing more, accomplishing more, and being more involved...

Care to elaborate?

All the talk about Biden's age is really about Kamala possibly becoming POTUS. They are determined to destroy her even worse than they did to Hillary. I follow her and her husband, who is a really great g uy, on Instagram and Twitter, and I also follow others on twitter, and she is out here and working and campaigning for issues and doing a great job. And her audiences are very enthusiastic. But of course the MAGAs and the misogynistic assholes are terrified that a strong intelligent woman of color could become our POTUS. I'm looking forward to it.

[quote]Is she good for the ticket or not? Right now nothing else matters.

She was relatively unknown in 2020 and didn't hurt the ticket. Now everyone knows of her incompetence, her gobbledygook word salads, and her deranged cackle. She can only hurt the ticket.

R118 Ok, then what? Say Joe and K. win. Then what? I haven’t heard any speech about what they’re going to do for America, what their plans and goals are for the future, for the second term. And beyond.

Literally all we are being asked to vote for is against Trump. Okay, then what? What are you offering *other* than “not Trump”?

I especially love the comments from people who say, they have nothing against a woman being President, just not this one.....gee, where have I heard that before.....And Nimrata is about as effective in comparison to Kamala, as Sarah Pailin was in comparison to Hillary.

Could someone point me in the direction of an excellent expat community? I'm looking for safe, cheap accommodations that are close to shopping, eating, sight-seeing, and the locals are welcoming to Americans.

Thank you Nana for being born in Ireland. And the church in Meath for still having a record of her birth and baptism - a lot of originals and registries were lost in 1916.

Thank you, Eire, for the passport as well. We'll be in the south, near Cork when we're not in the EU. I assume I'll be back every couple of months to see the docs, get the meds, and see what whoever's renting the house has done to it.

R133: "What are you offering *other* than “not Trump”?"

That's plenty for me.

If enough of you leave that may open up the housing market for those youngsters that complain about older homeowners living too long.

A win win foe both with some and the sunny and peaceful life in Mexico and a youngster who can afford a house in crappy USA.

[quote]I assume I'll be back [from Ireland ti the US] every couple of months to see the docs, get the meds, and see what whoever's renting the house has done to it.

You expect to travel from Ireland to the US and back every couple of months, R136? Maybe you have complex medical issues, but that seems both excessive and counter to making a home in a new place. Even under forced circumstances, being an expat works better when you put some effort into your new home and cut most ties to the old. Or do you plan just to wait out 4 years then jet back to resume your old American life?

R139, their motivation for moving to Ireland may be to be dramatic, in which case their regular return to the U.S. for health reasons would enhance their drama. Drama can be expensive, but it’s apparently very satisfying for some people.

Unless you're retired or can work remotely why leave your friends and family? I suspect there are a lot of drama queens on this thread like Amy, Lens, Whoopi . . .who won't do what they say.

[quote] Thank you, Eire, for the passport as well. We'll be in the south, near Cork when we're not in the EU.

You might be happy to hear that the Republic of Ireland is already in the EU. It's Northern Ireland that isn't.

It's not me who's leaving America, it's America who is leaving me. I did not sign up for this fascist bullshit. I was an activist, I never missed voting, I worked hard on issues, and donated money, and time, and now, here we are still arguing about bullshit. I'm retired and I'm over it. Fuck them all. Now, if we get all three branches, and we make some real progress, and we get the corrupt SCOTUSjustices and members of Congress to pay the consequences, I'll reconsider. But I don't think it'll happen. Yeah. I have lost confidence. Because we are poorly educated, self indulgent cry babies who have no sense of community or purpose. That is what I see coming down the road at me.

Finland saw thorough Kamala from the start.

Translating "Kamala" from Finnish to English: 𝙝𝙤𝙧𝙧𝙞𝙗𝙡𝙚, 𝙩𝙚𝙧𝙧𝙞𝙗𝙡𝙚, 𝙖𝙬𝙛𝙪𝙡, 𝒈𝒉𝒂𝒔𝒕𝒍𝒚, 𝙖𝙗𝙮𝙨𝙢𝙖𝙡, 𝙖𝙥𝙥𝙖𝙡𝙡𝙞𝙣𝙜

Kyvytön would be a great Finnish word for her. It means incompetent, incapable, unable, inept.

And thank the baby Jeebus and all the angels Kamala did what she was there to do in 2020: boosting Biden's vote totals, getting him over the top, and saving us from four more years of you know who and God knows what.

Anything more from her is a gift. He's treating her the way JFK treated LBJ: "Uncle Cornpone" for a thousand days. But Johnson did more; much, much more as VP than Kamala has. It's a different world now and whether she's right or wrong, they've made her look like shit. They'd try to make anyone in the job look like shit (remember Dan "Potatoe" Quayle? Imagine, then shudder, at the thought of Sarah Palin if McCain had won), but c'mon. A Jamaican/Indian woman married to a Jewish guy who used to fuck Willie Brown when he was the Assembly Speaker - she did, not the Jewish guy - is a juicy target for the right. Staff turnover and appearing in public every three or four months hasn't helped boost her profile or her popularity. Throw enough shit at her and some of it sticks as far as the MAGATS are concerned. It seems that it has. I imagine the calculation to keep her hidden is to keep her from being a target: out of sight, out of mind. Getting elected and governing are two different things.

I am agnostic as to whether she stays on the ticket or is replaced. Whatever and whoever it takes to win and save democracy as we know it - with all its flaws - is who the D's VP should be.

R142. Indeed. That's why it says "European Union" in Gaelic and English right above "Eire" and "Ireland" on the cover of my Irish passport.

I could really see the fear in Trump’s eyes today. Not worried as much. He’s going to go out with a gong of guilty verdicts.

Give it a fucking rest, R144.

[quote]Could someone point me in the direction of an excellent expat community? I'm looking for safe, cheap accommodations that are close to shopping, eating, sight-seeing, and the locals are welcoming to Americans.

R135: Before finding the perfect community to embrace you with welcoming arms, you have some work ahead to figure out your options. Money, parents/grandparents, employment, finances, criminal background, health issues...where you are from and who you are determines your options. I'm an American by birth but an EU citizen via one country thanks to grandparents and via another EU country by way of marriage; I have 28 easy options in Europe where I need only move and then sort some minor administrative details.

Otherwise, you have to see what country might have you and figure out how to make that happen. To move to Italy, you would probably want a Long-Stay Visa, or a Long-Stay Visa with Purpose of Studying if you wanted to learn Italian. Or maybe a Elective Residence Visa if you can demonstrate >€31,000 per year from pensions, savings, or other sources. In Spain, by comparison, a Retirement (or Golden) Visa costs a €500,000 investment in real estate; Student Visas are an option if you want to want Spanish; or a new Non-Lucrative Visa for freelancers employed outside Spain (remotely) or people with a sufficient, demonstrable income stream. In both countries, five years of conditional residency will give you the option of Permanent Residence, eligibility for national health care, etc. Expat healthcare insurance in each country could cost €500 to 2000/year, with inexpensive ways to secure coverage for existing conditions. Those examples (though comparatively similar) show that options vary greatly one country to another.

Look at general sites like internationalcitizens.com, or goabroad.com or the link below as a first step. When you narrow your search to a country or a few countries, look also at online discussion groups for English-speaking expat communities in those countries.

You know, when Trump said, the other day, that he would love to see the economy crash right now, it wasn't just another outrageous comment. People need to pay attention to the signaling he is giving to his extremist sheep in Congress. A few days ago we read that the Dems and the GOP had struck a deal to raise the debt ceiling and work on other issues. Today I'm reading that the so-called "Freedom Caucus" (really the Sedition Caucus) has pressured the Speaker to back away from a deal.

So now the possibility that our economy will actually crash is very real again. And yes, there's a direct relationship between what's going on in the Republican Congress and what Trump is saying out here. So, if you're concerned about the homeless, or immigration, or the economy, pay attention, because Trump may seem like some delusional nutty bastard, but he has followers in positions of power and they are following his lead.

Another thing to consider is that with all the bullshit h ype on TV news "shows" some people are actually considering Haley or De Santis or RFK, Jr. or WTF ever. and the question is do you want your Fascism hard and fast or soft and gradual? Because Trump is the carnival barker, but others are calling the shots. Trump is being propped up by others with an agenda and financial resources and when Haley gets endorsed by the Koch organization, that's really all you need to know. For me it's not just Trump, it's the Republican party. If they gain power in any form we are in deep shit.

To die as quickly as possible.

Actually, that is more of a current life goal than a backup plan.

If the second Trump regime really creates social division and austerity amongst what's left of America's classes, I'll probably have to get to New Zealand or Canada. And just live just to make ends meet, as I feel America will likely fall headfirst into a presumed Third World War. I want to be safe, and if that means I have to scrub public toilets just to have a small basement apartment just to survive, I suppose I'd do it.

R153, New Zealand doesn't do basements...not enough snow here. No need to clean toilets either... bare minimum hourly rate is US$14.30 per hour. You would be most welcome just don't bring all the political crap with you.

Backup Plan? I am still working on plan A.

A "great businessman" who has declared bankruptcy multiple times, doesn't pay taxes (and boasts about it) and who openly wishes for the economy to tank.

Our long national nightmare continues.

He won' be president but in the event that I'm wrong - not likely but never say never - I will concentrate more that he dies. I've never done that regarding anyone but that's because no one has deserved it more.

Very cool to know R154, appreciate the facts. I hate our (US) politics, that's honestly what I want to leave behind more than anything. I'm just a young artist desiring to live in a more peaceful place. And also one that's got amongst the highest chances of nuclear war. Just a peace-loving, earth-loving guy who would love to escape the hate-filled American mousetrap.

*of surviving a nuclear war. Damn autocorrect, excuse me!

[quote] I will concentrate more that he dies

Personally i doubt either of them would survive the next term

I'll buy the sleeper sofa I always wanted.

And really nice high thread count sheets.

R153 R159 We're anti-nuclear here too. The one thing a lot of folks from overseas find here is....the quiet. Living out of the main centres is a dream. If you want homosex more choices in Auckland, Welington, Christchurch , Dunedin etc. If you're into nature we're good at that...Dept of Conservation as a great website to make bookings for treks/walks/hikes etc. We are also into our native birds which sing beautifully. No snakes and no Gaters. Street art and laneways are great in most cities and the coffee is strong. Rent, food etc is not cheap I must add. Prices incl tax and we don't tip. Good luck with even thinking about moving. It's a big world out there.

My plan is to speak out against him every chance I get. BUT he won't be president so to think about him is lame.

I still have not seen one mention from anyone as far as the fundraising and voter registration efforts they will be a part of or be on the ground floor organizing.

I also see little mention of how much money people will be personally donating to Biden.

I do see people who will complain and say bad things about trump e er chance they have on an already anti trump forum. The poor dears actually think they are helping.

At least it will be entertaining when DJT returns to the Oval Office.

I keep saying this. It's not just Trump. The Republican Party and the people who identify as Republicans agree with him. The Fascism, the Extremism predates him, and will be here after he is gone. He is a r allying point, but they really don't need one. As long as they keep Americans "energized" by social issues and by fear, they can keep winning. They never offer solutions. They just want us divided and acting from Fear.

[R12]

Well first you'd a virus patented and developed in the lab since the 90s suddenly, and unexpectedly released into the public.

Then have democrats move the sick into elderly homes so that you can get the numbers up and blame your political opponent for not doing anything about the virus.

Then you have judges change the rules of voting, with no input and create chaos with mail in voting and chaos at the polling stations.

At those polling stations, you have everyone leave early and they pull boxes of ballots from under the table or receive truck loads of boxes of ballots and put them in overnight.

You have social media platforms pulling any bad stories of the democrat candidate and any real stories that are released, called it Russian disinformation and have a bunch of deep state fbi liars agree.

Then, when the people get mad at this, and they protest, use it as a way to make the party look bad and to try and get your opponent barred from becoming president (even though you could have stopped it really easily by having the national guard there and not moving the barricades... oh! And call it the worst thing to happen since pearl harbour even though blm/antifa spent the year burning cities and town, robbing, looting, committing crimes and murder)

And VOILÁ!

Is R168 being ironic/sarcastic? I can't tell anymore.

I’m gonna shit

Wasn't James Michael Curley governor from jail? Trump being convicted may not stop him electorally.

Mayor of Boston, R171, until Truman pardoned him in the late 40's on a Federal conviction based on fraudulent federal engineering contracts during WW II.

He'd been arrested previously in 1902 and served 60 days in jail in 1904 for taking a letter-carriers exam for a constituent when he was a state rep. He ran for a seat on Boston's Board of Aldermen (now the City Council) in the Democratic primary, tantamount to election in Boston, while campaigning with the slogan "He did it for a friend." He won.

R172, There are buildings named after him in Boston.

There's one I know of, R173, the old L Street Bathhouse in Southie. There's also a Mary Curley School, a BPS elementary school named after his first wife, in Jamaica Plain.

The baths are now a community center.

If that racist, sexist, irresponsible imbecile becomes POTUS once again, I would seriously consider leaving the country.

Then again, being American is as fundamental to me as being gay. I firmly believe and adhere to the rule of law, individual liberties, and the promise this country holds out for all. So, i would fight like hell against everything that imbecile, his proto-fascist party, and his authoritarian-loving supporters try to enact to tear away at those principles. I would seriously consider running for elected office.

Democracy matters! Vote! The way we live depends on it.

Genuinely don't think he will. In general popular vote terms guarantee he'll lose. It will take a lot of illegal activity in the swing state electoral college votes to put Trump one vote over the line. But now we've seen what Republicans will try to do and everybody will be watching them like a hawk.

Personally I thank GHOD I live in a blue state and a blue city. Wouldn't set foot in a red state to save my life. Have no kids, I'm in treatment for cancer, and don't think I'll live another decade. If I just live long enough to see Trump lose I'll die happy.

Biden is an uninspiring orator but his actions the past 4 years are what count and I trust him. He ACTS like a careful, judicious US President. Plus I'd love to see Kamala take over when he retires. Win-win. It's an American tradition that Vice Presidents are treated as a joke while they're VP no matter what they do. Then they're reassessed when they move up. She'll do fine as President. Plus the fun of watching racist misogynist heads explode.

[quote]If that racist, sexist, irresponsible imbecile becomes POTUS once again, I would seriously consider leaving the country. Then again, being American is as fundamental to me as being gay

If it were so fundamental, you wouldn't seriously consider leaving the country. Maybe you need to be more honest with yourself.

[quote]It will take a lot of illegal activity in the swing state electoral college votes to put Trump one vote over the line. But now we've seen what Republicans will try to do and everybody will be watching them like a hawk. Personally I thank GHOD I live in a blue state and a blue city.

Saying that Trump can't win any swing states by just getting the most votes in them already tells me you are looking through the prism of living in a blue state and blue city. In the real world, he may very well get the most votes in some swing states.

I am not kidding, I had a dream the other night that breaking news Trump died overnight from a heart attack. MAGA went crazy, blamed Democrats.

I would safely bet that Trump has a legitimate medical staff in that fucking plane and equipment to deal with the basics. Oxygen, IVs, and EKG machines, paddles, etc. I worked in local government when Nelson Mandela visited our city. He had portable oxygen and his plane had some basic stuff. When he got off the plane he looked fine, and he was. but he didn't have the stamina to put in the events and long days required of him without a hit or two of oxygen.

R179, it's not that implausible. MAGATs and Republicans have been trained to believe ANYTHING bad that happens to Trump or embarrasses the Republican party is either a deep state conspiracy or a false flag created by ANTIFA/BLM. Add in the QUANON nutjobs. If Trump dies of a heart attack tomorrow they'll all immediately assume he was assassinated by Biden and nothing will convince them otherwise. The only question is how violent they'll become. Not a lot of overt stuff so far, just a lot of sneaky anonymous terrorism, like bomb threats and swatting.

I had a friend that died of a massive heart attack at the age of 50, partner found him dead on the floor in the living room while watching TV. Although that kind of thing does run in families, it happens to people all the time especially once they hit their 70's.

My question is the funeral. How awkward would it be that they try to put on some show for the country? Would any living president show up? Would the Verst Lady be able to hid her smile?

[quote] MAGATs and Republicans have been trained to believe ANYTHING bad that happens to Trump or embarrasses the Republican party is either a deep state conspiracy or a false flag

Progressive are not the same as MAGAts. I for one will actually ask Trump supporters whey they support him, I turn to Fox and other Conservative media all the time to see what they are saying. Conversely, I NEVER hear any MAGA doing the same. Nope, Nope, Nope it's all fake news Deep State to them. They would rather set their hair on fire than sit through a show on MSNBC for example. Not even open to the possibility of another viewpoint.

They don't actually believe it R183, but they pretend to. The've been pretending to be Christian for years even though not one in a thousand has read the Bible. This type of lying comes easily to them.

R184

So you are like a deep cover progressive spy that watches fox in order to know what MAGA wants and then reports it back to your fellow progressives?

How fucking cool is that. And now you are an expert on conservatives.

Well played

The question that R184 and all the rest of us too, should be asking, is why the fuck is Fox still on the air. They actively promoted the lie that Trump won and the election was fraudulent even while privately admitting and knowing that it wasn't true. This has been proven in lawsuits against them. So why are they still allowed to broadcast? They should have been shut down and fined out of existence. They aided and abetted a fucking insurrection. It's outrageous.

I do understand what R184 is saying in that he tries to be open to other opinions. That would be fine in ordinary circumstances. But " this is no ordinary time..." to quote Eleanor Roosevelt. These people a re literally brainwashed. They spout "facts" they learn from alternative media sources and from Fox.

It is not a sign of intolerance to reject White Supremacists and Fascists, or people who are convinced a child porn ring existed in the basement of a pizza joint and Hillary was involved with them, or who are currently saying that the Left caused the extreme weather in Iowa to stop them from caucusing. I used to joke that they'd blame Biden for bad weather, but right now, in Iowa, that is exactly what they're doing.

These are people who reflexively see themselves as victims of shadowy conspiracies and I really just can't spend the time or energy trying to figure them out or convince them that what they embrace has the least bit of merit. I'll be damned if I will allow their weakmindedness to rob me of the life I have worked hard to build, and that is their ultimate goal.

They see themselves as victims of conspiracy because they have been conspirators attacking minorities in their own lives, and they are guilty of projecjtion.

It's one thing to not want to believe what might happen, to want to believe the best or at least not the worst on a slim majority, to tell yourself it can't happen.

But the truth is none of us know the outcome of the November election, and to insist that something can't happen because you don't want to believe it could happen doesn't improve you chances.

To live with your head in the ground of only one outcome is not exactly a backup plan, it's your coping strategy.

Tell me you've never been surprised by n election in the past where the odds seemed much clearer than in this race.

R135 Lake Chapala has been an escape place for American ex-pats for decades. It remains fairly inexpensive. I'd start there and ask around for additional options.

R190, why go to where expats are? Same old same old. Open up your horizons be more adventurous.

[quote] Open up your horizons be more adventurous.

Yes Yankee dog

^ sorry mate not a Septic Tank.

I understand that a million people are paid to lie to us R189. We already lost our democracy, we're going to have to take it back and that requires doing things a different way.

psssst. The US is a Constitutional Republic

[quote] So you are like a deep cover progressive spy that watches fox in order to know what MAGA wants and then reports it back to your fellow progressives? How fucking cool is that. And now you are an expert on conservatives.

I didn't say I was an expert, I said I was open minded enough to listen to what the other side says without shutting them down or writing them off which is what MAGA does.

Your snarky comment is childish and uneducated. Try opening up a history book some time. [bold] “Keep your friends close; keep your enemies closer.” - Sun Tzu

R196

So a combat man with reading experience?

If you are honest about your viewing and reading habits then you are not special in any way. You are exactly like most mature sane adults. Most are not like these progressive-maga clones that insist on only their group bubble approved reading and viewing lists. On this right and left want to tell us what is good for us and allowed for us.

So you are not a person that will report block or FF another poster because they post something you don’t agree with, And good for you if so.

R197. You lost me at "Most are not like these progressive-maga clone". That's all projection on your part. Again I will say, both sides are not the same. I have met far more progressives that do what I do and look at what the other side is saying than MAGA folk that would never dream of doing so.

He won’t win. The passion that propelled him to power just isn’t there. On the other hand, the blinding hatred of him on our side lives on. That will carry the day.

I'll do just like 99% of every other rational American who hates Trump will do. I'll suck it up and move on with life as best I can. If what we hear comes true, even if the crazy bastard does get back in the White House both houses of Congress are likely to be majority Democrat, so hopefully they'll be able to put a stop to much of what he tries.

Frankly, I believe if he does win and tries some crazy military shit, the leaders of all branches of the military will revolt and deal with him the way he needs to be dealt with. It will be time for a military coup

R198

We post on a very liberal site where one liberal progressive after another will FF posts they don’t agree with and put on ignore those they don’t agree with. They will hound those and make fun of those they don’t exactly 190% agree with.

I’d not use DL and so many of its posters in any way to back up your argument.

So you are an expert on MAGA and you know for sure what they would never dream of doing. Good for you. Is that from first hand surveys you have done or from your extensive watching of Fox?

Please don’t tell me you spend your day asking everyone you meet what tv they watch and what outlets they read.

There’s really no need for a backup plan.

[quote]If what we hear comes true, even if the crazy bastard does get back in the White House both houses of Congress are likely to be majority Democrat

Conventional wisdom is that the House will go blue, the Senate will go red.

Watery pink trickle. Flaccid!

If we lose the Senate, we lose the Judiciary and we lose the Supreme Court. If we lose the White House, the same thing.

The current Supreme Court is 2/3rds corrupted and right-wing and dismissive of precedence and legal standards. It's lost thanks to idiots who wouldn't vote for Hillary in 2016. The ONLY way to get it back is to ensure that Democrats maintain both the White House and the Senate for the next 10 years at least. Two of those corrupt asshole judges are pretty old and likely to retire or die in the next 10 years (Thomas & Alito). If we can keep the White House & Senate, then we'll get the Supreme Court back to a 5-4 sane majority in a decade or so. If we lose either, then we've lost the Supreme Court for a generation.

This is YET ANOTHER reason to stop bashing Democrats (it's not helping) and get your asses out to vote for Democrats in every election you can... in addition to preserving our democracy, preserving civil rights, preserving our social safety net (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid), preserving the ACA, preserving worker's rights, LGBT+ rights, women's rights, reproductive rights, voting rights, etc...

Republicans CANNOT be allowed to win the White House or the Senate. We MUST give Democrats a trifecta for as long as possible. Or this country is literally doomed, and along with it, quite possibly human civilization as we know it. This is NOT hyperbole.

[quote]Republicans CANNOT be allowed to win the White House or the Senate. We MUST give Democrats a trifecta for as long as possible.

At least you recognize that in our system, the Republicans as they are today will eventually win. Now you just need to accept the reality that after that and a period of time, the Democrats will win, followed by a victory for the Republicans, and so on. It's a delusion that Trump or anyone else will stop that pendulum. Your admonition is the same as saying we have to stop winter or summer from happening for as long as possible.

[quote] This is NOT hyperbole.

Oh certainly not

[quote]So you are an expert on MAGA and you know for sure what they would never dream of doing.

Why do you keep trying to put words in my mouth? I never said that. But it sure seems like you are the "expert" of progressives. Since you and only you know how progressives think based on an anonymous internet chat board full of trolls, bots, and wingnuts.

R206 apparently has never heard of the Wig Party. There was a time when things would never change back then and they did. America is ripe for disruption of the Republican party right now. With so many leaders of that party leaving because of Trump, even setting up anti Trump organizations, it's very likely if they lose, that it could split into MAGA and a 3rd party of some sort. Republican light.

^ yes I think Liz Cheney believes MAGA one way and Repug lite the other way.

I hope Governor Whitmer can stand up to him again

R209? The WIG Party???

It's WHIG, you fool.

I'll immigrate to a country that allows CRNAs to practice (France, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Finland or Denmark). I had sepsis and had gulliane-barre in the summer of 2016, and when I recovered and went home I was gobsmacked that fucking Donald Trump was the republican nominee. I mean no one was paying him much attention in the news before I got sick! I became despondent when he "won" the election (I will always believe that Putin/Russia interfered in the 2016 election). If he "wins" again, America is DONE FINISHED.

The only way I can see Trump winning is if Biden can't run.

The only way I can see Trump winning is if Biden gets the Democratic nomination. Biden 2024 is not Biden 2020.

I will continue to go to the gym, work, attend movies and theater, restaurants, hang out with friends and celebrate birthdays and holidays with my family just as I did in 2014, 2018 and 2023.

Ditto for me r216, except that it's true for me for all the years from 2014 through now and into the future.

I am buying a bomb shelter. Another tricky finger on the red button that sends bombs to Iran at the slightest provocation, and we're going to suffer for it, even those MAGA types.

Agree R217 I just picked 3 years at random which represent the Obama, Trump and Biden era. 2020-2022 were different due to COVID i.e. nothing will really change for me or most people I suspect.

Obama was a big change, getting rid of caps on healthcare insurance alone changed peoples lives. No more insurance companies cutting you off in the middle of a serious medical condition. Trump's inability to manage a pandemic leaving it to the states was also a big mess that affected most people personally based on where they lived.

No back up plan. I'll keep on living my life the best I can. Illinois isn't great by any means, but at least it's solidly blue.

[quote]Illinois isn't great by any means, but at least it's solidly blue.

Lol. You mean Chicagoland is.

Yes, R222, but the state legislature - both House and Senate - and the Illinois Supreme Court are solidly blue. So, no crazy laws are going to be passed no matter where in the State you live. I thought "solidly" blue or red was understood to mean the government, not acres of land.

Also, total voters, not acres of land.

Acres of land are neither red nor blue. It's an indication of which party the majority of the voters in a country voted for.

Yeah, I get that R225, but you throw up that map showing all the red and pink, which is largely in counties that don't have a ton of people. My point is that if, overall, voters, regardless of county, vote Democratic by more than a narrow margin and the state government is Democratically controlled - now with super majorities in both chambers and among Supreme Court justices, then Illinois can be said to be "solidly blue." Plus, Illinois has voted Republican in a presidential election since 1988. Could all of this change - of course. But it's not likely to happen at the next election, and if Trump is elected, I'll be glad to live in Illinois in regards to politics - even if there's other reasons I'd want to leave.

[quote] overall, voters, regardless of county, vote Democratic by more than a narrow margin and the state government is Democratically controlled

𝘐𝘵'𝘴 𝘕𝘰𝘵 𝘞𝘩𝘰 𝘝𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘴 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘊𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘵𝘴, 𝘐𝘵'𝘴 𝘞𝘩𝘰 𝘊𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘝𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘴

I recall how I'd wake up each day dreading turning on my computer or TV because I'd find out Trump had done, said, or threatened to do yet another totally fucked up thing. I went through 4 years of hating the news. It was a depressing, soul sucking time that I don't want to go through again.

Some of you haven't read the Project 2525 document, or even heard of it, and it shows.

If Trump wins, this country is over, your rights are history, and the suffering will be legendary.

The only winning move is to not let Trump win. Period.

Thanks, R190. Looks like a good place to land, especially since I speak a little Spanish. I'm filing that away.

Here we go, all the Americans promising they'll flee America of the Orange one gets back in.

At 73, I am on the short walk. Between this awful possibility, global warming with its effect on food supply and potable water, the waning of democracy worldwide, and persistent covid (while we wait for the next viral threat) I feel things will be near intolerable by the time I check out. Not sure more than another ten years is desirable. It won't be a good time to be elderly and vulnerable.

[quote]Here we go, all the Americans promising they'll flee America of the Orange one gets back in.

[quote]—Stay where you are, you histrionic fuckwits

R231, are you unaware that some have and some others will? Do you pretend to be surprised that many more people talk about the prospect than end up acting on it? Did you somehow think that people who entertained the prospect AND who had the wherewithal to act upon it AND moved was going to upset the US population numbers?

My suspicion is more than because you don't want to move or don't have the opportunity to do, that you resent the fuck out of those "un-Americans" who do. Carry on, it seems to give you pleasure.

^^^^^^ Hey Hunter, any new dick pics to upload?

R228 stop watching the news it's simple. The media has so much time to kill and so much space to fill.

"If it weren't for Trump CNNs ratings would be in the toilet"- Ted Koppel

[quote] "If it weren't for Trump CNNs ratings would be in the toilet"- Ted Koppel

"If it weren't for Trump MSNBC would still be showing excessively tattooed Mexicans in California prison shows"- Rachel

Where's my Trump off ramp?

I'm with R232. There will literally be nothing left to live for, for me anyway, and nothing to look forward do but disaster, suffering, and death. I'd want to check out before the worst of it hits.

Literally, if Trump wins, it's essentially an extinction level event for human civilization globally. Because it means the end of any meaningful action on climate change, which means much of the world becomes uninhabitable in as little as 50-100 years. I don't want to watch the beginning of that decline, knowing it's hopeless.

Never mind how bad it will get here, politically. It will be very violent, and minorities will be targeted. And we're ALL minorities here.

[quote] Literally, if Trump wins, it's essentially an extinction level event for human civilization globally.

You’re funny for being such a ridiculous lunatic, but then it becomes sad knowing that there are additional people who think like you.

R238 Move to Gaza dear.

R239, you're just in denial of the obvious reality here. Again, go read the Project 2025 document.

What's really sad is that there are morons in denial like you.

The first thing I plan on doing is blaming the Democratic National Convention for not giving us a viable candidate. Then I plan on watching Trump roll the tanks down to the border.

Costa rica or Panama..i don’t want to try and survive in an american dictatorship.

R231. Funny, thats what a lot of German Jews said in Germany 1935

Trump ain't leaving next time. Thanks a FUCKING LOT grampa joe.

Due to my Scottish mother, I'm a dual citizen of the U.S. and the U.K. I'm looking at Devon and Cornwall, it's the warmest part of Britain.

[R238] Tucker Carlson had a Harvard Scientist on for an interview. It was extremely interesting. He says c02 is the gift of life on our planet. He doesn't know why the climate change people are pushing for reducing it. You should look it up on X.

::: sigh :::

R245, why the fuck are you trying to blame Joe Biden?

R247 are you dumb enough to believe that bullshit?

R249 = gee. I don't know. Why would anyone blame Grampa and his arrogance of thinking he could possibly be fit to run for a second term? Even Obama knows Biden is going to lose. By the way, I also blame Granny Jill.

Democrats are going to lose Ohio this November. Don't even think it's in play. Biden never went to East Palestine after the train wreck. Hillbilly Pete went and gave a speech about returning soon to see the progress. That was 11 months ago. Joe and Pete have been skewered by the press in Ohio and local politicians. And Sherrod Brown is going to lose in November too. So where is Biden going to make that up?

R251, Shame on Jill Biden. Her promoting Joe for a second term is absolute elder abuse.

I don't think Ohio was gonna be in play no matter what. The Dems and especially Biden have to save their energy for the real possibilities. I hope they know what they are but I'd assume Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, maybe Arizona? Nevada? Not sure Georgia's in play.

Like Ohio, I fear Florida's lost to us for a good while. Hope I'm wrong.

Oh and North Carolina or is it a hail mary?

Granny Jill thinks the same old Trump scary tactics work. sigh.

Become a lesbian.

R252, The Governor of Ohio (who sided with TFG false narrative about the big lie) didn't want Joe to step foot in Ohio. The Gov said the rail company Norfolk Southern would take care of everything....what a balls up that was!!

R258 LINK = WOW = You are literally spreading fake news. Governor DeWine has repeatedly requested Biden go to East Palestine. You obviously don't live in Ohio. What other lies do you spread on DL?

[Quote] The Dems and especially Biden have to save their energy for the real possibilities

and ignore all else?

The Republican playbook on a state basis is to polarize, divide and conquer.

[quote] The Republican playbook on a state basis is to polarize, divide and conquer.

Yes, both the Democratic and Republican playbooks on a state basis are to polarize, divide and conquer.

Wish I hadn't used up all my F&Fs, R262!

R262 R263

My fear is that the dems won’t try hard enough to polarize, divide, and conquer the opposition. Don’t tell me there are any dems that don’t support polarization and division among the gop.

R247 As if you didn't know he and his opinions are bought and paid for the gas, oil, and coal industries.

He's not at Harvard, nor has he been associated with a joint Smithsonian/Harvard project since 2015. His name's not in Harvard's internal directory, meaning he doesn't have a Harvard appointment, email, or office address there. He was funded by the American Petroleum Institute, the Koch brothers, Exxon, (all petroleum) and the Southern Companies (coal) but is no longer. I guess he was too weird or controversial for them. He has zero credibility and has had serious issues (way past Claudine Gay's) about the quality of his work: falsifying research, not disclosing donors and conflicts, and being investigated.

If you knew what a POS he is and posted that anyway, you can fuck right off.

Florida House flips Democratic.

R251, you're a blithering idiot and a fucking moron.

Rolling my eyes at R252... Ohio was never going to be in play, and Biden visiting East Palestine wouldn't have done anything to change that. My god you are such a dumbass, and anyone refusing to vote for Biden solely for that reason is a performative idiot whose opinion is garbage and who is unworthy of any attention.

Hi is not going to win.

How to make DL care about more life years for trump not less?

A winning ticket of Trump—Desantis

As bad as things get they can allows get a lot worse.

[quote]R241: Again, go read the Project 2025 document.

If you're gonna mention it - twice - at least give a link telling what it is.

[Quote] As bad as things get they can allows get a lot worse.

They certainly can.

[Quote] Yes, both the Democratic and Republican playbooks on a state basis are to polarize, divide and conquer.

[Quote] Wish I hadn't used up all my F&Fs, [R262]!

Not too divisive

"I dd not have sexual relations with that woman" Was he referring to Hillary?

Racist white people are the greatest threat

[quote] The Dems and especially Biden have to save their energy

You said it Pony Soldier. God bless Hallmark's Murder She Wrote marathons

R276

Give the man a break. How many people do you know that still have a full time job at that advanced and elderly age?

[quote] What’s the backup plan for yourself if Trump wins the election.

Canada or Costa Rica - I can’t decide between snow or palm trees.

Can we just stick to the topic? Thanks.

Consoling myself by watching Joy Behar's head explode

I'm pre-ordering my one way ticket to Uranus.

R280, She just might stroke out on the air "live". Stay tuned.

Preview

R273, how is stating an obvious fact like that "divisive"? In fact, time has proven her not just to be correct, but to have been quite generous and kind with that statement. Clearly it was WAY more than half of Trump's supporters that were utterly deplorable.

You can whine about what she said, but nothing will change the fact that she was absolutely correct.

R276, Joe Biden works longer and harder than Trump ever did. And has accomplished far more good for the American people than Trump ever even considered trying.

R275, he's not wrong. In fact, he's quite right.

Feb 5 2025 thread on DL

“I wonder if things might have turned out differently if the Dems had gone all in and took the issues of crime in the streets and an open pours border away from the GOP with strong clear loud initiatives”

They might even suggest that the VP who looks like dead weight right now might have taken a strong definitive stand stealing the thunder away from the GOP on these issues..

[quote]open pours border

Is that like the law against open containers?

No it’s more like what could swing the election to the gop in spite of everything that should say that is impossible.. But keep up the yucks.

R288

[quote] It'll be all-Fuckface von Clownstick all the time, forever.

So no change from today then.

R284 fact or 'feelings ' She was referring to10s of millions of Americans and potential voters with a negative generalization She later apologized for her statement but lost the election nonetheless.

[Quote] he's not wrong. In fact, he's quite right.

R286 did Biden provide evidence/reasons for his statement? Did he offer facts, examples, details, specifics . . .How would you quantify that statement?

The entire GOP is White Supremacist, the violent police who murder Black People at traffic stops are White Supremacists. Putin is a White Supremacist. Virtually all the problems you can name are rooted in or made dramatically worse by White Supremacy. Everything from the reason we don't have universal healthcare, to all the people dying of Covid (the Trump administration felt the "right people were dying" and thus did nothing to help), you can go on and on.

I imagine you're one of those willfully blind, blinded-by-privilege assholes that deny White Supremacy even exists. It PERMEATES our country and keeps us all down.

[Quote]I imagine you're one of those willfully blind, blinded-by-privilege assholes that deny White Supremacy even exists. It PERMEATES our country and keeps us all down.

seek help dear you're overwrought!

R293, I completely agree with you. The problem is, WTF do we do about it? I am seriously asking. The problem is serious, and it goes both deep and wide. And appealing to compassion or reason does not work at all.

Look, the truth is that back in 2020 we were voting against Trump. Yeah, we had that little comedy of parading nominees around like Amy and Mayor Pete and briefly, Kamala, and probably a couple others I can't remember, but the groundswell that gave us Biden wasn't about any enthusiasm for Uncle Joe. He was familiar, and sensible, but truthfully, it was a very pragmatic way to unite and win. Period. and that is what it will take again in 2024. But we have to see beyond Trump, because All these Republican fuckers are bad news. All of them. So from a practical point of view it has to be that we unite behind the candidate to defeat the Republicans. Period. I mean just look at the members of Congress. Just look at the Governors. Find me one Republican who has not co-signed the Fascist agenda. None. They are truly a parliament of whores.

[Quote] The problem is, WTF do we do about it? I am seriously asking. The problem is serious, and it goes both deep and wide. And appealing to compassion or reason does not work at all.

What has President Biden proposed to do about it?

R297, he's proposed lots of things, and even implemented some things to help undo some of the systemic racism. A few of those thing were blocked by white male conservative justices and others who sued. Ugh.

If you really cared, you could look it up, but I don't think you really care.

R297 what a weird question. You expect him to snap his fingers and change the composition of the Supreme Court? Order Florida and other fascist states to stop banning books, allowing discrimination against LGBT, changing the Supreme Court ruling that states could opt out of Medicaid expansion? That he could wave his wand and create a nationwide law to make abortion legal in every state? He can't do those things because he's not a dictator.

But he's the leader of the party that has worked to expand healthcare in the first place, the party of civil rights, the part of social security, the party of LGBT rights, the party of women's rights including control over their bodies, the party of helping people with student loans, the party of environmental regulation to help slow global warming, the party that believes the wealthy have it too easy on taxes/capital gains...

I could go on -- the party of good things instead of the party of evil -- the party that continues to try to support those significant advances in our society, while the other party opposes them. So you vote for the leader of the good guys instead of the villains, capisce? What is so hard to understand?

It make take years or decades to reverse these negative changes brought about by Reagan, Bush, Trump, et. al., but you take what you can get and keep fighting.

Perfectly logical question R299 Your windy response avoids a simple answer as does R298

[Quote] It make take years or decades to reverse these negative changes brought about by Reagan, Bush, Trump, et. al., but you take what you can get and keep fighting.

R299 are you implying that racism and white supremacy started with Reagan, Bush and Trump? Ever hear of slavery and the Civil War and the Civil Rights Movement and MLK and Rosa Parks . . .your historical knowledge is sorely lacking. Harvard grad I suppose

Whites are the one group on earth that strive for supremacy over others. Hispanics, Blacks, Chinese, Indians, Japanese, Koreans, etc you never see these people trying to do the same to others.

I was a history major you can trust me in this

[quote]CA is a diamond in a goats ass. Merica.

R41 see, this is the type of anti-America sentiment from the left that is driving people to the right.

Most Americans are NOT self-loathers, particularly right-wingers and moderates, but it's a common characteristic among the far-left, which has seeped into the Democratic Party, in general.

Many Americans are starting to notice this trend and don't want to be associated nor led by people who are ashamed of being American.

Hence Trump's popularity and the disillusionment with Biden et al.

R303

When a country looks for a leader during very uncertain fraught dangerous times they almost never look for a soft sensitive and gentle leader.

They want strong or the appearance of strong. And that starts with crime in the streets, on the subways, and a border that appears open and at least appears to not be a big dem concern.

Appearances count as much or more than facts.

[quote]Your windy response avoids a simple answer

Your presumption that there exists a "Simple" answer is the problem, dumbass.

[quote] are you implying that racism and white supremacy started with Reagan, Bush and Trump?

Of course not, R301. Stop trying to play "gotcha" and maybe pay attention. Those Presidents installed very racist policies and people throughout the government and judiciary. And they unlocked and unleashed racist attitudes nationwide. They reversed a lot of the progress that was being made under LBJ, Civil Rights, and more. A perfect example: The gutting of the Voting Rights Act.

R304, how weak does someone have to be to think a man like Trump is strong? He's a weak pathetic whiny crybaby who can barely drink a glass of water with two hands or walk down a gentle incline. He's weak, dumb, cowardly, incompetent, and a loser. In every way.

R307

The issue is how others think of trump not me or you who were never going to vote for him. And in this both side have already made up their minds.

Facts will not decide this election only turnout will.

[quote]Whites are the one group on earth that strive for supremacy over others. Hispanics, Blacks, Chinese, Indians, Japanese, Koreans, etc you never see these people trying to do the same to others. I was a history major you can trust me in this

You know nothing about history.

R309, he was clearly being sarcastic.

“I was a history major you can trust me on this.”

Did you get your history degree in Middle School?

R310 Sarcastic? Unless you’re R302, don’t be so sure…

R309

How dare you I have an honors BA in White Christian history from Calvin University .

If I was Jewish I would be very frightened. The intense hatred of Israel right now amongst the left mixed with the antisemitism of the far right will lead to a very dangerous place.

[quote] The intense hatred of Israel right now amongst the left mixed with the antisemitism of the far right will lead to a very dangerous place.

Those people attacking Jews on campuses aren’t “far right” or anywhere to the right.

R299, thanks. I agree with you. And it's important to start with Reagan if we're talking about today's Republican Party because we had been making slow steady progress until he systematically dismantled most of it and the current iteration of the Republican Party, accelerated under his watch. Yes, there were signposts along the way, but he was the total package

The Anti Semitism crowd certainly is Far Right....and Far Left, and a lot of paid agitators. The Republicans are shouting about the Anti Semitism the same way they shout about everything else. They are anti semitic, but they love exploiting the issue and the unrest it causes.

No one in the right mind would accept that the President would accept or condone Netanyahu's scorched earth policy. The fact is our strategic interests have changed to be more inclusive over the years. We have been holding on to a fragile stability in the region with the help of Egypt, Jordan and the Saudis as well as the UAE, Bahrain, and Qatar.

Iran is a client of Putin's so is Syria. Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas get a lot of rubles funneled thru Iran. And so do the paid terrorists in Yemen. The Houthis weren't very important a few years ago. They were fringe. But right now Putin wants to go after us to slow or stop the Ukraine stuff. And it's working.

Biden has been desperate to rein in Bibi. But Bibi isn't acting alone. He has extremist generals working with him. And he is too blinded by his own hatred to realize that his policy will end badly for him. The patience of his Muslim neighbors is wearing thin. They have their own problems to cope with. And they cannot allow Israel to continue to obliterate the Palestinians while doing nothing. At some point, the very existence of the state of Israel will be central, not the fate of the Palestinians Biden knows this.

R298 if you really had the answer you'd provide the specifics but since Biden never did . . .

^ stone

[Quote] I am buying a bomb shelter

are you planning to a move to Gaza?

Maybe, move to the Canary Islands for three months. That’s the max I can stay without a Visa. Still working on where to go for the other nine but I need to keep my condo in CT as a base ( mail, Dr. appointments).

Yes they are R314, they are paid off by the feudal governments of the MIddle East.

[quote] The intense hatred of Israel right now amongst the left mixed with the antisemitism of the far right

Every few months half a dozen cranks will wave anti Jewish signs on a bridge and the media will have a field day about neo-nazis; meanwhile thousands of college students and progressives stage anti Jewish demonstrations across American cities , universities, and the halls of Congress.

One is not equivalent to the other.

Fucking hell, barely 15% of the responses remotely address the subject of the thread:

[bold]What’s the backup plan for yourself if Trump wins the election[/bold]

[quote]Governor DeWine has repeatedly requested Biden go to East Palestine

Why should he? Isn't that the Governors Job? It's a STATE PROBLEM not a Federal one.

Why should he? Maybe something to do with an important swing state and the coming election?

Just a guess

But when you are in such a strong position as Biden is maybe he figures he does not need to go. Maybe he is planning a trip to the southern border to make a strong speech about keeping the border secure. Not a fucking wall but strong words about strong federal actions.

I wish I could find some foolproof painless method of suicide.

I don't want to fuck it up if Trump wins.

[quote] It's a STATE PROBLEM not a Federal one.

Railroads are regulated by the Feds. I'm not certain if Pete knows that though.

[Quote] Fucking hell, barely 15% of the responses remotely address the subject of the thread:

[Quote] What’s the backup plan for yourself if Trump wins the election

remain in the US and watch people like R322 implode

[quote]remain in the US and watch people like [R322] implode

What's your problem, R327, I bemoaned the fact that an enormous majority of responses have fuck all to do with the topic of "backup plan," not projections about the election outcome, not talking points with which to bore your social media friends. But then your 26 responses in the thread are mostly anti-liberal pablum from Trump rallies or simply shithouse rat crazy/angry.

I don't live in the U.S., so get a big telescope and a truckload of lifetimes of patience if your waiting for me to implode.

Suicide.

R329, that's silly. Why end your life because of these buffoons? I intend to make their lives miserable and obstruct everything I can. Imagine Trump as POTUS with a huge Democratic Majority in both Houses and the courts turning their backs on him. Hah.

Lissen. We get a huge majority in both houses, we can impeach and indict Trump and run him out of office, then get rid of his VP, and let the Democratic Speaker be POTUS. Yeah.

R328 somehow many people I know friends, family, neighbors, coworkers are living their lives and not consumed with dread and foreboding and most people don't have or feel the need for backup plans. Not everyone is so concerned about Trump as you are and that's something you are going to have to live with. People have interests and concerns different from yours.

[quote]somehow many people I know friends, family, neighbors, coworkers are living their lives and not consumed with dread and foreboding and most people don't have or feel the need for backup plans.

And yet your carry-on-business-as-usual plans seem to highlight watching heads explode and implode and being smug about anyone who gives a fuck about an election outcome in which your man Trump is elected. As you say, "People have interests and concerns different from yours." It's just that it pisses you off when they do.

I'm "not consumed with dread and foreboding" though you seem a bit irate at anyone with the means (financial or otherwise) of making a backup plan. I have passports enough to live in the US or another 30 or so countries and I haven't lived in the US for years for reasons entirely unrelated to politics. The outcome of the election will have very little impact on my life. Its interest to me is the can't-watch/can't-not-watch horror show of half the voters who would sink the US with great glee, you among them it appears, as long as it's not Hilary Clinton, or Obama, or Biden.

[quote]Consoling myself by watching Joy Behar's head explode

[quote]Pray Whoopi, Amy and Barbra make good on their 2016 declarations

[quote]"I dd not have sexual relations with that woman" Was he referring to Hillary?

[quote]Racist white people are the greatest threat

[quote]R298 if you really had the answer you'd provide the specifics but since Biden never did . . .

[quote]remain in the US and watch people like R322 implode

Your obsessed and miserable and you don't want others to enjoy themselves. R333 Misery loves company.

I wonder if there is a market for doms that will take money just to call their subs and yell at them for 15 mins (30 mins at a discount price) about how bad life will be under Trump and Johnson and MTG etc.

Humiliation and misery and physic pain it could be a money maker

you're (^.^) My bad R334

R330, it's not silly. There will literally be no reason left for me to live. I'm old. I don't want to sit and watch them gut my country, destroy my retirement, take away my social security & medicare & ACA, take away my civil rights, empower and encourage right wingers to "come for me in the night" because I'm gay. If Trump wins, NOTHING will get better in what remains of my lifetime, so I plan on just checking out early. Further, if Trump wins, it ends any action and investment on sustainability and mitigating climate change, so I'd rather not sit around and watch the first strains of the death of humanity and the fall of civilization.

Yes, those really are the stakes. I don't want to live in a world where people deny the obvious and don't lift a finger, or cast a vote, against utter and complete disaster. If Trump wins, humanity doesn't deserve to survive, and I will be the first one heading for the exits, to avoid the rush.

R331, however unpopular a Trump 2.0 presidency may be, we’re not getting a 2/3 majority Democratic Senate. Or even a filibuster-proof majority. Too many ruby red states.

R337 hopefully you are working on your bucket list.

Telling John Hinkley that the whole lesbian thing with Jodie Foster is merely a ruse.

R337

You are exactly like those Japanese in WW2 that threw themselves and kids off tall cliffs because the US Marines had taken their island home . One after another jumping to their deaths. They were not all talk and angst. You I am betting will be.

Interesting speculation today after the New Hampshire primary. Some speculate that if Haley had won, or if she stays alive and somehow grabs the nomination, Trump will run as a third party candidate and the Republican Party would collapse. I guess the prognosticators don't seem to realize the party has already collapsed if they regard Trump as viable. IMO, every Republican elected official will endorse Trump. They see him as the best opportunity to get back into the WH. They're going to focus on who his VP is, because this time it will be important. Trump is mentally nuts.He may be able to win but he will never govern.

R342 here. I want to add that if Trump somehow gained the White House, there would be an internal coup. Talk about a dangerous mess. Trump would have hiscabal of lunatics fighting for power against other extremists and as the media likes to predict: "There could be a Constitutional Crisis." No shit. LOL!

Trump? Trump is going to up and quit :-)

We have been told many many many many times that the only reason Trump is in the race at this point is to run interference for Haley , to be a stalking horse for Haley so she can be the nominee.

Since it’s been said over and over and over again I assume that must be true.

Who has EVER said that, R344. That’s utter poppycock.

R345

You mean you missed the many posts saying that? And they kept repeating it. Their name was anonymous or the trump is a stalking horse for Haley troll.

R345 you give raway by using "poppycock." .....Joe.

The FIRST thing I'm going to do is come to DataLounge and yell "I TOLD YOU Grampa was never going to win without a pandemic".....Then I plan on yelling "They said Trump was going to lose in 2016---didn't you learn anything?"....So after that I plan on crying and waiting for the Trump Gestapo to come and round up the gays for our "relocation".

I’ll let you in on a little secret, R348. Your Orange Messiah didn’t lose the presidency because of the pandemic. If that were so, down ballot republicans across the country wouldn’t have outran him. No, Trump lost because his support among suburban woman had cratered long before Covid. An inconvenient fact that was already much-discussed by the political chattering class. And I don’t think Trump’s post-election conduct, along with the Trump-engineered repeal of Roe, has reversed this collapse.

R349 = I am a Hillary Democrat you asswipe. I'm not ignoring history. You're one of those "Trump will never win in 2016" guys...I don't WANT Trump to win. But he sure as hell is going to. Grampa ain't getting black votes this time. You better wake up.

Whatever Black votes he MIGHT lose, R350, Biden will gain from independents, former Republicans & Never Trumpers. It’s the Great Realignment that ushered in his victory in ‘20, over an incumbent president.

R351 = The "former Republicans" are going to watch the illegals keep flooding in next summer. I am a Democrat and tired of Biden not doing anything at the border. Maybe tanks ARE the right way to go.

I fantasize about some sort of cultural terrorism, courtesy a hefty helping of the sex and drugs and deviancy buffet.

At least it'd be an okay hill to die on if need be..

R351 = Covid "ushered in his victory". That and Trump talking about bleach cures.

The 2016 election was stolen for Trump.

They tried to steal the 2020 election and failed.

They will try to steal 2024 for Trump again.

They will fail.

[quote]Grampa ain't getting black votes this time.

Biden and Trump are both Grandpas you nitwit. Funny how everyone who hates Biden forgets Trump is only a few years his Junior, and with much more concerning health issues I might add.

[quote] I am a Democrat and tired of Biden not doing anything at the border. Maybe tanks ARE the right way to go.

I'm a Democrat but........

You trolls need new material.

Who cares if the border issue costs Biden and the Dems votes. Winning is not the most important thing. Doing the right thing is.

R354, if Covid informed Trump’s loss, please explain why down ballot republicans did so much better? Trump’s very personal loss was because his support from suburban women had cratered … long before Covid.

The whole "he's losing Black voters" trope started when some Hip Hop and rap "artists" bitched about the indictments. They claimed he is being persecuted unjustly. Joy Reid talked about the "Hip Hop culture" and the way some of the celebrities identified as such, were promoting Trump. She gave them a verbal slap in the face recounting Trump's history and his persona as far as how he personally related to Blacks. Trump is using his indictments as a strategy, and he has reached out to guys like Kanye in the past. The game plan is to break off enough support to get to 51% But that is an over hyped phenomenon and does not represent the exodus of Black voters from the Biden camp. We're going to hear all kinds of divisive bullshit between now and November. Don't buy into it. Don't believe it. Just get out here and work like hell.

The whole Biden is losing significant black support goes back to the poll after poll after poll going months back until now showing Biden losing back support. Even in Ga.

So maybe you are smarter and better informed than the rest but a lot of people believe it.

And saying don’t buy in is not an actual plan it’s a plea.

[quote] The whole "he's losing Black voters" trope started when some Hip Hop and rap "artists" bitched about the indictments.

Funny, the way I recall it the trope started when month after month all polling data showed steady erosion of black support

Newsom-Obama 2024

Black people that fail to show up and vote for Joe Biden might as well just buy a rope, tie a noose, and string themselves up from the nearest tree to just get it over with.

The plantation's overseer doesn't like it when his crew disobeys

[Quote] I am buying a bomb shelter

do they sell those at Target?

[quote] do they sell those at Target?

Selling at 𝙏𝙖𝙧𝙜𝙚𝙩 might send the wrong message.

[Quote] Newsom-Obama 2024

What a Gavin-Michelle administration would look like:

A New California Bill Aims to Ensure Incarcerated People of Color Have Access to Suitable Hair Products

I mean...what does a VP actually do?

I hear a lot of complaints about Harris, especially that she "talks too much," which I don't even understand BUT do those critics (aka racist, misogynist POS) truly understand her position?

R366/R367 And if that doesn't work, have one of these built now so it's ready for when they peel you out of the bunker...

R369

Thinking that she may be a drain on the Dem ticket does not make one anti woman or a racist.

Wondering if she might be a drain on the ticket and not sure if she is better qualified than other Dems does not as well.

Me——not a fucking clue. Have no idea if she is the second coming of Dan Quayle or FDR.

I'm watching This Week on ABC this morning and Martha Raddatz interviewed Trump supporters and it's unbelievable how delusional they are. "Yes, I believe the election was stolen." "Trump is a good man and wants to help us." On and on....... There are a lot of stupid, stupid Americans.

they are willfully stupid

R371 Good to know...because I never said it did.

The criticism that I'm referring to is CLEARLY biased because it's never followed up with examples of how she's ineffective at her job.

Kamala Harris is highly effective, experienced, and accomplished. This is just an obvious fact.

She's taking on more, and doing more, as a VP than most VPs you can name.

Well, she never shot anyone.

[Quote] I mean...what does a VP actually do?

what does a border czar do?

[quote] I'm watching This Week on ABC this morning and Martha Raddatz interviewed Trump supporters and it's unbelievable how delusional they are. "Yes, I believe the election was stolen." "Trump is a good man and wants to help us." On and on....... There are a lot of stupid, stupid Americans.

This isn't hyperbolic. Not one bit

I keep a fake Facebook (never post nor like anything) just to monitor what tump supporters think and react. My old home town is full of rabid trump supporters

Holy shit, these people would kill every “libtard” if they could. Not exaggerating one bit.

We’re in deep shit if trump pulls off a win this year

I'll be going wherever Barbra will be -- because I know at least that it'll be upscale, well-maintained, and supplied with coffee ice-cream?!

[Quote] I keep a fake Facebook (never post nor like anything) just to monitor what tump supporters think and react. My old home town is full of rabid trump supporters

strange hobby

[quote] Kamala Harris is highly effective, experienced, and accomplished.

Kamala Harris is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

(rolling eyes at the racist misogynist at R381)

[quote] Kamala Harris is highly effective, experienced, and accomplished. This is just an obvious fact.

Hi, Kamala!

He not gonna win. No way. Not happenin'. Rest assured.

Careful R384

R383 = misogynist.

Deep orange fake.

After four years of Trump, NO ONE wanted he around for a second term. "I just need 11,780 votes" he begged.

R388

Define No One wanted Trump please?

Trump got the second highest vote total ever in a presidential election, millions more voted for Trump to have a second term than those that had voted for Obama.

The second most votes for president in US history and based on votes cast more popular than Obama,

Dems need to stop being delusional

R389 And you need to accept that Trump only won because racist white dudes and submissive wives/whores hated having a Black president for 8 years.

R389 You ALSO didn't address the part where Trump was begging not one--but two--states for more votes.

No Trump dd not win in 2020. And he won in 2016 because of Hillary not Obama. Obama would have crushed Trump if he could have run for a 3rd term.

But in 2020 Trump got the second most highest vote total in US history despite losing by a close margin in the EC to Biden.

This No One wanted Trump poster was not a math major. And that is the only thing I am addressing here. Almost half the voting public wanted him.

R389

R392 The Electoral College is not a measure of popularity. Biden got 7 million more votes than Trump. He won by almost 5% of the popular vote.

You keep going on about he won more votes than anyone else before him. Except Biden.

In the 2020 election we still had a great many people voting for Trump based on rumors that Biden would shut down the economy and do extreme things because of the Pandemic. I know because I have to deal with a lot of small and medium sized businesses and that's what many of them believed. And a lot of workers believed they'd be out of jobs because of it..The GOP was promoting this scary economic message and it produced results. I personally cannot imagine why anyone would ever vote for Trump, but that is what my anecdotal evidence tells me.

R392 Hillary won the popular vote and lost the EC by 70,000 votes across 3 states. The narrative that she was the worst candidate of all time doesn’t bare the facts.

Could she have campaigned in Wisconsin better? Yes.

Could she have spent more time in Pennsylvania? Yes.

Was she up against Bernie Bros, Russia, Democrat fatigue, misogyny, and the idea of Trump being new and different?

[quote] Could she have campaigned in Wisconsin better? Yes. Could she have spent more time in Pennsylvania? Yes.

Could she have whitewashed and removed her history of scandals? No

Could she have gotten a full personality transplant and become a better person? No

Yes Biden beat Trump because Biden got the most votes ever. I find it kind of sad that anyone did not understand that and would have to be told.

But to say that the one who got the second most votes ever in a presidential election was someone No One Wanted makes that person sound like a moron. Or to claim that Clinton only lost because Obama a POC had been president makes one sound QAnon like.

The only thing that matters for 2024——turnout.

Let us not forget Trump cheated. Trump got a huge push from Russian troll farms making up shit about Hillary and posting their lies and misinformation in targeted swing states. Paul Manafort admitted they were handing off information to Russian agents that let them know where they needed the help. Comey's "announcement" two weeks before the election was also grossly unfair and was an immense push for Trump. Also, right wing media is 24/7 propaganda that not only misinforms, it has conditioned it's consumers to only listen to and only believe what THEY'RE spewing, never ever believe the MSM. This continues to this day. Fact checking them won't work because of this.

[quote]And he won in 2016 because of Hillary not Obama.

Bullshit, R392. He won because Obama was Black and Successful and that drove the racists NUTS... and he won because of Comey and Stein.

Hillary was NOT the problem. She got THREE MILLION MORE VOTES THAN HIM.

[quote]Could she have whitewashed and removed her history of scandals? No

There never were any actual scandals. I can't believe people have been so gullible on this point. She's literally the most investigated human being on the planet, and not a single wrong-doing has ever been found. Even when the investigators were the most biased-against-her that they could have been.

The reality is that conservative men HATED HER irrationally because she was a strong successful woman that didn't know her place, that actively worked for racial equality (the racists and white supremacists hated that too), and who DARED aspire to a men's-only club of the Presidency. And they couldn't have THAT right after one of those lowly Black People got into the WHITE House. They were DETERMINED to take her down. And that wasn't her fault at all.

And BTW, she did fucking campaign in Wisconsin, and her biggest rally ever was in Pennsylvania, so fuck those two stupid talking points.

her comment on deplorables did her no favors

and in 2008 the Democrats chose a relatively unknown Obama over her

and her famous vast right wing conspiracy theory

[quote] and in 2008 the Democrats chose a relatively unknown Obama over her

It was in 2008 that Obama made his most incorrect statement, saying, “You’re likable enough, Hillary.”

Common sense and history have proven him wrong.

and in 2016 a man without any political experience, who had never run for an elected office received enough votes to become President

[quote] No One wanted Trump

Yes very few WANT Trump. The current issue is that very few alternately WANT Biden

President Joe Biden's popularity in solid-blue Colorado is fading ahead of the 2024 election, a new Democratic poll shows.

KSTP/SurveyUSA poll: Hypothetical rematch between Biden, Trump is dead heat in Minnesota

[quote] her comment on deplorables did her no favors

[quote] and her famous vast right wing conspiracy theory

She was of course right in both cases, but the worst thing an American politician can do is analyze the electorate in public. The people want to hear only that they are beautiful children of God, wise and wonderful in every way, especially when they are being complete assholes.

[quote] Yes very few WANT Trump.

It’s true that some portion of those voting for Trump don’t want Trump, and I’ve been saying that since 2016. The number of people who couldn’t stomach ever voting for Hillary and so voted for Trump was surely enough to give him the victory.

Unfortunately for Democrats in 2024, they are making the same mistake again, nominating someone who has the situation of voters who don’t want Trump but won’t vote for Biden.

To all the assholes sent here to discourage us, let me say that this is 2020 again. It is not about whether anyone WANTS Biden. It is about NOT wanting Trump. This time we have to finish the job. We need to turn out in massive numbers and get both Houses of Congress under control, and stop being so Washington-centric and realize that a lot of our problems come from Republicans in state legislatures and Secretaries of State and Governors and state courts that are fucking us. They make decisions about education about medicaid participation, about election laws and minimum wage, and all kinds of shit while we're distracted by the D.C. circus. So PAY ATTENTION . Turn off the TV political "news shows" and ignore the polls and the trolls. They want to discourage divide and instill fear. Fuck them.

[Quote]The people want to hear only that they are beautiful children of God, wise and wonderful in every way, especially when they are being complete assholes.

A bit overstated. There's room for a certain diplomacy. If elected, she would have to preside over both beautiful children and deplorables It's not the way to attract voters.

[quote]her comment on deplorables did her no favors

She was correct. If anything, she was too kind. She said only HALF of Trump's supporters were deplorable. We now know it's 100% of them.

[quote]and her famous vast right wing conspiracy theory

And she was absolutely right about that too, as history has proven.

[quote]and in 2008 the Democrats chose a relatively unknown Obama over her

First off, sexism and misogyny are a thing, and second, she actually got more popular votes than Obama. In fact, she's NEVER lost the popular vote in any election she's ever run in. So every claim she's "not popular" is false by definition.

[quote]It's not the way to attract voters.

This is a laughable nonsense idea, that there is anything she could have done to win the votes of deplorables. Better to make decent people have second thoughts about associating themselves with deplorables.

[Quote] This is a laughable nonsense idea, that there is anything she could have done to win the votes of deplorables. Better to make decent people have second thoughts about associating themselves with deplorables.

Perhaps R411 but nonetheless she lost to a reality tv star which is rather laughable in and of itself.

She wasn't prepared for this

[quote] Why didn't Clinton concede in front of supporters

She got too drunk while watching state after state reject her

R412, I mean, you can ignore the sexism and misogyny, the double-standards the media applied (over 600 straight days of the "emails" nothingburger story, but they were lucky to spend more than a day on any of Trump's REAL scandals), and you can ignore the unprecedented James Comey letter (where he was silent about investigations into the Trump campaign), and you can ignore Russian hacking & propaganda and stooges like Jill Stein actively campaigning in critical swing states and winning more votes than the amount of Trump's win margin there....

But it'd be completely intellectually dishonest.

More accurate to say it took the combined (and unprecedented) might of Russian hacking, collusion, and propaganda, James Comey, Sexism, Misogyny, and 3rd party spoilers to take her down, and she STILL won 3 million more votes, and only lost the EC by a grand total of fewer than 79k votes spread across three states.

So, you know, fuck your sexist misogyny, spin, and double-standards where Hillary is uniquely responsible for her "loss" in a way you hold against no other election loser in history.

[quote]More accurate to say it took the combined (and unprecedented) might of Russian hacking, collusion, and propaganda, James Comey, Sexism, Misogyny, and 3rd party spoilers to take her down, and she STILL won 3 million more votes, and only lost the EC by a grand total of fewer than 79k votes spread across three states.

I don't think we can ever know what would have happened if throughout her life she hadn't made so many people loathe her.

Joe weighs in

and don't forget Donna Brazile

I don't think she "made people loathe her." A certain unfortunately large segment was always going to hate a sixties era feminist/anti-racist/anti-Nixon so-called radical, and there was probably nothing she could do about it. It's actually impressive how far she got.

and Loretta Lynch

R415 will you marry me????

Joe Biden, for all his protestations to the contrary, has a big problem with assertive women and he can be very paternalistic. Additionally he was never a fan of the Clintons. He can love on Hillary now. But not then. And please do not tell me how Liberal Joe is. I am very familiar with Joe Biden. Go back and watch the Anita Hill hearings. I was involved in the Presidential campaigns when he was a candidate back in the 80's, and he was a shit when it came to women. I saw it. I had a good friend who worked for a lobbying firm in D.C. and she gossiped a lot about Joe when he was running because he was soliciting a lot of people to help hi get endorsements. Jill Biden is his wife. She is an educated woman and a good political wife. But her main job is Joe. And the kids. Always. They're not too different from a lot of their generation, a fusion of the traditional roles with some flexibility. He has historically had problems dealing with a certain type personality as far as women are concerned. He got along fine with Pelosi because she was Uber Catholic and framed her positions as moral mandate. LOL! But even with her he'd sometimes criticize and dismiss. And he has an explosive temper and had no problem humiliating female staff in meetings.

I don't understand why anyone is STILL talking about Hillary Clinton! It was nearly a decade ago and she isn't running again. Time to build a bridge and move on.

It's Biden and Dump again in 2024. I agree with R409.

you don't understand DL R422

[quote]I don't think we can ever know what would have happened if throughout her life she hadn't made so many people loathe her.

Oh sure, it's HER fault people "loathe" her for no good reason other than she's a woman that "didn't know her place".

You fucking sexist misogynist piece of shit.

For eight years this board's primary reason for being was expressions of hate against Trump. I guess that was just misandry all along.

Hillary weighs in

R412 Laughable ONLY because people were dumb enough to vote for a multi-bankrupted reality show host over a qualified and experienced candidate. That says nothing about HER and ALL about a misogynist electorate.

I had a female friend, who would be considered a "Feminist" by DL standards, tell me when we first met in 2001 that a Black man would be president before a woman. As a Black, I scoffed at the notion. YES, I scoffed. Eight years later--on that night--she texted me "Told you so."

[quote] I don't understand why anyone is STILL talking about Hillary Clinton!

It would have helped if after the election she had been honest and had said what Robert E. Lee had said after Pickett’s Charge, “It is all my fault.” She filled her followers’s head with so many false explanations that it will take many years to disabuse them of it all.

It wasn't all her fault, R428, so why the fuck would you want her to lie?

She actually took far more responsibility for the loss than she should have, imho.

Her explanations weren't "false". They were facts. Time and history has proven her 100% right about just about everything.

R427 let it go

Well, R427, more than once I have taken pains to tell American black men that they were allowed to vote long before any race of American woman could.

R 421, Interesting. Today I was just reminiscing about the Anita Hill hearings. If only Biden stood up for Anita more and somehow thwarted Clarence Thomas….

R395, she didn’t bother to campaign in states. She and her husband pushed Trump to run.

Except she was lying, r432. Her story didn’t hold up and she acted like a shrinking violet. Biden was embarrassing during it but Anita Hill was ridiculous.

Invoke the character Regina Giddens from The Little Foxes with the following mantra:

I hope you die. I hope you die soon. I'll be waiting for you to die.

Y'all...I know it's early but the latest report on Biden is giving me Comey 2016 vibes.

R430 Let what go? You guys keep bringing her up.

R436

Too old and senile to remember what he did? It’s not the political stamp that is going to help in November. And this not a charge from gop fruitcakes but by the DOJ and why they can’t prosecute.

Too old to senile can’t remember shit

One hell of a bumper sticker

R434, She did not lie.

[quote]more than once I have taken pains to tell American black men that they were allowed to vote long before any race of American woman could

Technically true, but the reality wasn't quite that clear-cut.

So fucking angry and disgusted with the Media buying into the Republican narrative about Joe's mind, and accusing him of being unfit for office. The overreach and totally unprofessional comments by the special counsel were outrageous. Rotten fuckers. This is Hillary's e-mails! Those POS fuckers had a senile Ronald Reagan with Alzheimer's in the White House and it was never mentioned, never discussed until AFTER he left office.

And anyone who thinks Reagan didn't have it in his first term, actually showed signs of it, is wrong. I remember when he was doing a meet and greet at the WH with some big city Mayors, and his HUD Secretary who was Black, was accompanying him, and he shook his hand and asked which city he was Mayor of. Media treated it as a fun thing no follow up. He also met some high school students who'd won grants for science projects from Westinghouse and was almost robotic when he posed for photos. One of them said, "this guy should not be President."

I remember this because I was working on Carter's re election campaign in 1980 and I watched Reagan smile and pose and do his routine one liners while the corporate fascist dismantled every single thing Carter did. Including Mental Health services. Ronald Reagan is the President who gave us wide spread homelessness. The Republicans decided that they'd elect figureheads, celebrities, etc. so they could put "the right people" in their administration to run the show. Which is why Trump had the Koch organization with an office and "advisors" working out of the WH.

Trump's MO has always been to sully his opponents, muddy the waters, and cause doubt in order to give the illusion that his opponents are also compromised, so he can look less bad.

Here's an idea from a retired congressman. No paywall.

Only if you’re wealthy r443

and yet Amy Schumer, Sam Jackson, Whoopi . . .all stayed in 2016 after stating they would leave the US if Trump was elected and they certainly had the $$$ to do so.

Just curious where this binder of classified documents is

I'm black, my ancestors have been through far worse in this nation and survived. I'm not leaving, i'm staying to fight the good fight.

I don't fear Trump or any of these people.

R447: Truth! Listen up, everybody: Do not be fearful, be angry!

The Resistance will be televised.

We're going to learn more about the voluminous missing binder when the criminal trial starts.

OP live just live for life!

If Trump wins, there is a small window between Election Day and January 20th. I hope all the evidence in the cases against him leaks out, and that Biden declares martial law and suspends the COnstitution, arrests Trump and his supporters in Congress and state governments, and executes them all. Hold the executions in a stadium, and invite the Taliban to handle it. They can behead Trump then play polo with his head.

R451 excellent ideas. If SCOTUS says TRG is above the law as you say... Biden can go nuts and stay in power till he carks it. Line up all the traitors and bang, bang, bang you're dead. Hip hip hooray.

Who is going to protect the country and democracy from people like r451 and r452?

[quote] Claim the Russians did it

Like they did the first time.

R453, SCOTUS won't be saving Democracy if they side with TFG. You can be safe tho' I'm not American.

R453

Sane Americans? We can always hope.