Name a country you'll never visit, and tell us why

mornin' Debs

Jamaica, horrific homophobes

And country where I am illegal and subject to draconian penalties for being and acting gay. I have turned down career opportunities for this.

I admire your principles R4.

Jamaica --Unsafe

Bahamas --Unsafe

India- Pollution, Poverty, Everyone is ugly.

China-See India Above

Africa-Unsafe

Russia-Unsafe, everyone is ugly

India, for all the reasons OP stated, plus the possibility of running into the asshole relatives of the likes of Nimrata and Ramaswamy.

I once wanted to go to India. The romance of it. But not now. Ever since the pandemic, I have revised and shortened my list of countries for all the reasons stated above. I won't condemn the entire continent of Africa, because I'd like to visit Morocco, and Ghana, and Kenya and South Africa. These cultures are so different from our own it's something I'd like to experience. I have no interest in Southeast Asia, and the Middle East is off limits. This is unfortunate because Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc are dangerous places.

Anywhere in the Middle East - barbaric religion, hot, dusty, always involved in some kind of war, lack of human rights

R6 Africa is a continent, not a country. To which of the 54 countries in Africa are you referring?

*high fives R10*

R8 You can skip Morocco. Meh.

[quote{Israel. Because it is a barbaric land thief.

lol 🙄

I would love to go to Egypt and see their antiquity. But anywhere in the Middle East is pretty depressing- violence, war, religion inspired hate and violence.

China, India and Africa are also troubling nations but much like the US there is much of interest and physical beauty along side human self destruction.. Actually the US is like this- there are states in our nation I don’t want to set foot in.

But the Middle East is out. Too toxic- so depressing.

Africa is a continent, not a country.

R6 is one sharp tack

Uganda - two gay men currently in its criminal justice system threatened with death penalty. For being gay. Thank you American Evangelicalban missionaries for helping form Uganda's death-to-gays legislation.

Moldova. It has big wine cellars and even bigger Romanian cocks but for someone who's neither a sex tourist nor a drunk it has very little to offer.

Murica. Because I'm fucking scared of all the gun-wielding, bible-thumping MAGAts.

China. The sound of their language(s) give me a headache.

R18, don't judge 'murica based on The DL. There are actually a lot of normal, well-adjusted, intelligent, educated, happy, interesting, kind, generous and productive people in 'murica.

North Korea. Because I don't want to die.

Where did R18 say he was basing his desire to not visit our fair land on the basis of DL-denizens, R19? He was pretty explicit in blaming it on MAGAts; perhaps he touched a nerve?

No interest in any muslim majority countries for reasons well known to everybody. Turkey was interesting, but there is predatory behavior towards tourist, especially non-muslim. Morocco was interesting but I don't want to go back. I'll say Israel was fascinating, high-functioning, the people aren't overly friendly but I think it is mainly a language issue, so much history, culture and great food. Really unlike anything else in the region, vastly different and advanced.

No interest in China or almost all of the countries in the Caribbean, and only moderate interest in the countries in South America.

The U.S. - gun toting crazy bastards who elect wannabe dictators. Everyone is ugly.

Countries where female genital mutilation is common. I assume they don't like the homos either.

Okay, maybe I'd make an exception for Egypt because of its antiquities. I'm really shocked at the prevalence of female genital mutilation in that country. I didn't think Egyptians were so backward.

R22 so you have decided to just stay home. Probably wise decision for everyone.

New Zealand. Just doesn't seem worth the hassle. I think v8fairy is from NZ - I apologize.

A friend is from Thailand and, IIRC, she said there's basically 1-2 months (Feb.?) where it's not uncomfortably hot.

Russia--total shithole run by mafia thugs and they HATE anyone from the West, especially Americans. Full of drunks and a scared, resentful populace.

It's too bad because it's a geographically large country that probably has many nice areas with lakes, rivers, or mountain ranges. If they were smart, they would try and develop some areas and open them up for tourism and make money. But they're not, and they've been the bane of geopolitics for the last 75 years or so. They manufacture nothing that the world would want to buy and they interfere in US elections. Fuck them. It'll be a great day when Putin dies but I'm sure someone worse will just take his place.

Totally agree about India. Every person I know who went there got sick regardless of precautions and staying in 5 star hotels. And it wasn’t some overnight thing but continued even after they returned home. No thank you. Cow sh*t in the streets and people starving. And not mention those damn IT helpless desk idiots!

Mexico

I've been fortunate enough to travel a lot. I'm sure this will just not compute for many of you but here goes: by a long, long way, the friendliest people I've met on my travels are..... in Iran. It's a fascinating and beautiful country, there are obvious restrictions on personal freedom if you choose to go there, but you have pretty much total freedom to travel around the country and there isn't a significant problem with violent crime.

Not that easy (but not impossible) for Americans to visit, and believe me, it's well worth it.

As for the thread title, there is no country that I would refuse to visit on principle, I'd even like to go to Saudi Arabia one day if possible. Every country would offer the opportunity to learn something.

New Zealand - no historic architecture to speak of; and landscapes that don't excite me

Australia - because I've never met an Australian whose priorities (outside sex in a few cases) intersected in the least with my own. Its distance drives home the notion that the small reward is not worth the large effort

Maldives - everything that bores me

Caribbean (outside Cuba) - see Maldives

The U.S. - was born and raised there mad have been in 37 or so states, but no desire to go back

Russia - for various reasons; I would have excepted St. Petersburg at one point, but now I'm fine not visiting

Koreas North and South - I know of no natural or manmade aspects to be a draw

There are fantastic historic things I would love to see in the Middle East, but I won't visit any place that is too difficult and, on top of it, poses some danger or would require any unusual caution in matters of "discretion" as a gay man.

Any place ravages by wars or serious conflict for long and recent periods of time. Danger is not exciting for me in travel.

[quote] Koreas North and South - I know of no natural or manmade aspects to be a draw

Gyeongju, Korea's historic capital and now a UNESCO world heritage site, is fascinating. If you like you can stay in a Buddhist monastery for a night as a guest there too.

R32 And if you make it to North Korea the Arirang Mass Games are a must-see.

[quote] the asshole relatives of the likes of Nimrata and Ramaswamy.

Don’t forget Dinesh DeSousa, Bobby Jindal, the asshole tech bros who support their idol Elon musk, the FB marketplace scammers, the phony IRS agents who are coming after you unless you send gift cards, the UPS emails telling you this is your last chance to pick up your order. China, India and Russia are asshole scam countries who can’t produce anything legitimate

It bears repeating: AFRICA IS NOT A COUNTRY.

Ironically, I bet people from the countries you'd never want to visit would actually know that.

ConcernedEuropean, I would LOVE to visit Iran someday.

R36 So many highlights but my favourite place was probably Esfahan, the beautiful and historic former capital.

[quote]Russia--total shithole run by mafia thugs and they HATE anyone from the West, especially Americans.

I've been to Moscow and St. Petersburg several times, and loved everything about them. Great ballet, opera, and museums. I met some lovely people. It makes me sad I'll never see them again in my lifetime.

R17,

Many Commonwealth nations retained the penal code from colonial British rule, and have never updated the laws around homosexuality. It goes back a long way. I’ve met several people who have family in these countries, and they are too scared to visit because they will be beaten up, murdered or jailed if caught.

China. Where do I start?

Me.

[quote]Okay, maybe I'd make an exception for Egypt because of its antiquities.

I get my share of antiquities here in Eldergay Dataloungeland.

Mexico….I have already been once decades ago, but it has become so dangerous since,

India. The filth

Anywhere in Central America: the spiders

Jamaica. Unsafe and homophobic

The UK it’s full of drunk blue people.

I probably won't ever visit India, but I'm sure it does have some attractive areas. It just seems like a huge hassle to plan a trip there where you don't have to deal with the worst aspects of the country.

Still, I would go to India over the likes of Bangladesh any day.

Africa is indeed a country, R36!

[quote]New Zealand, has no landscape that excites me.

Hard to know what this even means....

[quote]R10: Africa is a continent, not a country.

Fair enough.

[quote]To which of the 54 countries in Africa are you referring?

Which of those 54 countries in Africa do you think are not 'unsafe', per R6, for LGBTQs? Which ones are exemplars of progressive ideals, with respect for human rights?

My brother is a Delta pilot and I get a "buddy pass" for Christmas every year.

The only country I wanted to visit but haven't is Egypt. Too much poverty and hostility towards gay men.

Some places are best seen in movies.

What’s wrong with the Maldives?

Different people like different things, R47. I travel to experience architecture, history, and cultural things, and prefer my landscapes shapes in some degree by the hand of man. I've seen the Alps and various other mountain ranges from various vantage points, and of course they can be impressive. I wouldn't fly to New Zealand to see mountains and a very few and middling historic buildings from the late 19thC. I'm aware not everyone shares my view.

In full, the bullet point read "New Zealand - no historic architecture to speak of; and landscapes that don't excite me"

R48 South Africa, for one. Does your country have a constitution explicitly banning discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation?

*shaped by

A parade of ignorance. I've been to India 3x without getting sick---all of them long trips. There is so much to see and the poverty is is of a sort that you easily can encounter in the US or any of the cheap resort-y destinations that people here seem to like. The notion that China is anything like the stereotype of India is just ludicrous, esp. given the rapid economic development of the country.

Africa as a country? Are you in third grade?

I travelled to Egypt for 10 days last year, with a small group of 8 people including 3 Gay men. The people are friendly and welcoming, and very helpful. We didn't get sick. Bottled water was available to us everywhere . We stayed in nice hotels, and avoided street food. But if you go don't go when it's hot, because there are small flies and ticks everywhere. This was my first experience of the Middle East and such a vastly different culture. I felt as if I was on a movie set at times. And listening to the muzzin calls for prayer in the evening was magical. Egypt is a pretty secular state, and even though our guides were Muslim, they didn't cover their head or stop to pray. THey explained that it was allowed. We stayed at Hilton properties and they could not do enough for us. I think right now isn't a good time because of the war not only in Israel, but the civil war in Sudan, causing lots of refugees trying to get into the country. But hopefully things will calm down. If you ever get a chance go to Egypt. Go. It's just an incredible experience. It did not disappoint.

Egypt is a strange place. Law enforcement is hostile, but because sex outside of marriage is almost impossible, men seek other men to get their needs met. Turkey is very similar. I’ve been propositioned quite blatantly in both countries. The line I remember most is” I am not married. Do you understand?”

I do love the subtextual racism that surfaces in threads like these.

[quote]R52/ConcernedEuropean: Does your country have a constitution explicitly banning discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation?

No, the US has no federal laws banning discrimination based upon sexual orientation or gender identity. Twenty-three states, one territory, plus D.C. do. Mine, Texas, is not one of those states.

[quote]South Africa, for one.

From Wiki:

[quote]Nevertheless, LGBT South Africans, particularly those outside of the major cities, continue to face some challenges, including homophobic violence (particularly corrective rape), and high rates of HIV/AIDS infection.

Doesn't sound particularly safe to me.

South Africa's pro-LGBTQ laws are, like US laws, something of a recent development. I do not limit my criticism of it to exclusively LGBTQ issues, but progressive ideals and human rights in general. SA has a poor record.

And yes, I'm well aware that, by these standards, the US is also quite 'unsafe.' But I was discussing the '54 countries' of Africa. The thread is about places one would not consent to visit, not where one lives.

[quote] I do not limit my criticism of it to exclusively LGBTQ issues, but progressive ideals and human rights in general. SA has a poor record.

Well, let's give South Africa some credit, R58, it's the only state which has had the courage to bring proceedings at the ICJ against Israel for acts of genocide in Gaza. Sadly, most Northern Hemisphere countries have been competing against each other to loudly and performatively cheer Israel's government on.

[quote]R59: Well, let's give South Africa some credit, [R58], it's the only state which has had the courage to bring proceedings at the ICJ against Israel for acts of genocide in Gaza. Sadly, most Northern Hemisphere countries have been competing against each other to loudly and performatively cheer Israel's government on.

Be that as it may, that does not make South Africa safer.

[quote]R57

DL wouldn't be the DL without it.

I’ve been to 60 and of the remaining, it’s generally the negative things I’ve encountered with their people in other places: Morocco, Egypt, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kuwait, Serbia, Croatia, Albania. Or unsafe political and cultural environments like Uganda, Venezuela, North Korea, or Belarus.

Of the 60, there’s a number I have no desire to ever return for either been there/done that reasons or because I dislike the people: India, England, (Scotland and Wales are fine), Ireland, Australia, UAE, Sweden, Italy, Argentina. Surprisingly, I had great times in Russia during the early 2000s, but not until Putin is gone and the culture deprogrammed. If Trump wins again, the US would also go on the never return list.

China, because of its draconian lockdowns.

Australia, because they have all kinds of animals that could kill you.

Serbia: They have hot guys, but after I saw "A Serbian Film", I was like "no thanks".

Indonesia: tsunamis

All those tacky former Soviet countries that end in -stan.

Jamaica. Virulently homophobic and unsafe. Culturally a disaster as well: dreadful food, the ugliest hairstyle known to man (dreadlocks), and a truly stupid religion (Rastafarianism). Plus you'd have to be stoned out of your mind to listen to reggae.

Keep back-pedalling R48. You’re the one who thought that a massive continent of 54 countries was one country, not me. I’m glad that you’ve been educated just a little bit today.

OMG enough about fucking Africa!!

I didn’t realize Jamaica was so bad, that’s very enlightening. Didn’t have plans to go anyway but I’m surprised, it alway seemed like any other relaxed island nation.

I have no desire to return to England. It’s not terrible by any means but too grey and depressing for me. The people looked unhealthy and were quite snide and condescending. Food was bad as well.

I'm pleased to see that other posters seem to reflect how I feel about Jamaica. Nastiest place I ever visited, and I've been everywhere including the Soviet Union, India and China, all of which I found fascinating and, contrary to popular belief, not as dirty as one would imagine.

Anywhere in Eastern Europe..

Here's something to know. If you're talking about a visit, a vacation, I'll assume you're talking about staying for a couple weeks at most. Maybe 10-14 days. I'm also thinking you'll be on the move visiting various locations, cities, tourist attractions, etc. If you are an American, and anything bad happens such as you being assaulted or robbed, etc. you have the American Embassy and they will be there for you. Most countries want to be seen as safe for tourism. They need the money. They don't want a bad reputation.

Belgrade is such an awesome city. Been three times and loved it even more each time. The House of Flowers and Museum of Yugoslavia complex are fascinating.

I’ve backpacked through West Africa three times now and love it too. Benin is a gem, as are Sierra Leone, Liberia and Togo. Ghana and Côte d’Ivoire are quite modernized, especially in parts of Abidjan and Accra. Yamoussoukro is one of the strangest capitals I’ve ever visited too.

I never felt unsafe once while I was there, though speaking French will enhance your experience greatly.

I would think homosexuality is a big taboo in most African countries, maybe with the exception of South Africa.

Oh, I have another...the Philippines. Crap food, hideous poverty, hot as hell, bugs, ugly cities with awful traffic. I know the people are very friendly, but I would rather meet them somewhere else.

R72 Claire Danes

[quote] Yamoussoukro is one of the strangest capitals I’ve ever visited too.

Tell us more R70, what was strange? I'd love to do a trip like that through West Africa too, I've been interested in the region ever since I started watching movies from Senegal. Hope to make it there sometime this year.

[quote] Koreas North and South - I know of no natural or manmade aspects to be a draw

Then you must have never heard of Penis Park.

[quote]If you are an American, and anything bad happens such as you being assaulted or robbed, etc. you have the American Embassy and they will be there for you. Most countries want to be seen as safe for tourism. They need the money. They don't want a bad reputation.

Another American who thinks every other nation is the proverbial third-world shithole, desperately begging for Americans to come to spend their $ and get assaulted and robbed or worse - otherwise how would these primitive peoples get by?

Maybe he writes U.S. State Department travel advisories, which are gloom and doom magnified to make Americans think they are safer at home than to see how people live in other, civilized nations.

Here's the current advisory for Italy, same as for most of Europe. Italy has a homicide rate of 1 person or fewer per 100,000, the same as Spain, France, Sweden, Portugal, Greece, Poland, Germany... The U.S. rate is 7.

By miraculous good luck, foreign visitors to the U.S. may report crimes on U.A. turf to their to their own embassies in the U.S.

R21, perhaps you should get a sense of humor.

R2 = shit stain

Asian countries are too far for my low interest in them.

I would think Japan would be worth visiting.

United Arab Emirates.

Duchy of Grand Fenwick

What is the term for gay Karens? This thread was started by one and a bandwagon of them joined in.

I mean really? Did you all vote for Trump? It’s 2024. Try to think outside of your perceived white privilege. Most of you probably can’t even afford the flight to exotic places like India.

R66 perfectly demonstrating what I meant with “enough about fucking Africa!!”.

It’s all too nuanced to consider Africa as anything other than an amorphous mass of giraffes, dictators and hot weather, right?

R25 Egypt is a veritable shithole. Corruption is rampant. Cairo is falling down. The Nile and the Delta is clogged with plastic. Dead animals litter the canals and drains. The people are predatory to tourists. One of the biggest disappointments ever.

However, if you have Grindr, yo will almost certainly meet a hot hung guy. Just be aware of the secret police.

[quote]stupid religion

Redundant

[quote]What is the term for gay Karens?

Darrins. Like the role gay actor Dick Sargent played on the TV show "Bewitched".

Datalounge? This thread does not disappoint!

[quote]What is the term for gay Karens? This thread was started by one and a bandwagon of them joined in.

I don't know, R83. There's one American YouTuber who's an adventurous traveller. He said India was one of the most polluted countries he's ever visited. He hated it. Rickshaw drivers constantly following and hassling him when he's told them twenty times already he doesn't want a ride. Cows eating out of dumpsters. He said it was depressing.

USA because of the Muricans

R84 you’re a fucking tiresome moron.

No one wants to hear your back and forth point scoring with the other poster about whether African countries or Africa the continent is worth visiting. If someone doesn’t want to visit an entire continent it’s their fucking choice, you harping pompous troll.

It’s gays like you that give gay men a reputation for being petty persnickety cunts. CUNT!

[quote]What is the term for gay Karens?

The correct expression is "angry fairies spewing venom".

Can't you just shorten it to "Dataloungers"?

R85 I was in Cairo 10 months ago and saw nothing like you describe. Nothing. No dead animals, and during our ride on the Nile I saw no plastic clogging up everything, and the people weren't at all predatory. In fact for a city as crowded and populous as Cairo crime was surprisingly low. There's a lot of poverty, and people are all hustling trying to sell t shirts, or souvenirs, but if you tell them to go away they go away. Our tour guide to care of it for us. I found kindness and warmth. They welcomed us. And tipping was expected but surprisingly cheap. I gave the bellman 2 bucks for four suitcases (myself and my companions) and he was thrilled. They prefer American dollars. I find it interesting that as much as some people love to travel to exotic locales, they seem to expect things to be as convenient and similar aas they are with our American ways.

Metropolitan Cairo is a city of nearly 24 Million people. It is crowded. It is old. I found it as I expected to find it and I enjoyed the experience immensely.

R91 tiresome moron here - the point that I was trying to make (which obviously went right over your head) is that many Americans (including a few on this board such as yourself) have a very simplistic understanding of the world outside USA.

Which your post perfectly proved - well done!

I had to go to Cairo on business in 1981. I stayed at the Nile Hilton and ate my meals there. I still ended up vomiting in the street. In retrospect, I shouldn't have eaten the salad.

R96 and yet here you are, instead of traveling the world and expanding your mind, you decide to bore everyone with your tedium. You’ll have the last word even if your sphincter explodes in the process! You poor, unfuckable priss.

Go troll a different site and let the relaxed masculine men have a conversation.

Part of the joy of travel (for me) is just walking neighborhoods and seeing how people live. If you go to Jamaica, they tell you not to set foot outside your gated resort. What fun is that?

Okay. The consensus is if you go to Egypt, you'll get major food poisoning.

Yeah cool R98 - and I’ll bet you’ve never been further than Tijuana in your sad little life.

All the best! Keep travelling to those square states!

Generally speaking, any country where my US passport marks me as a prime kidnapping target.

R99 Have you stepped outside the bounds of a gated Jamaican resort? It’s impossible to do anything with 5 people following you around asking for money. It was the worst experience of my life. Go to the Caymans.

R100 No one in our party of 8 got sick and one of them ordered soup every night which the three of us kept whispering that we were sure they'd get sick but they did not. Now I was careful not to order salad but a lot has changed since 1981. They told us that their water is heavily chlorinated and it can upset people's stomachs so they encourage you to drink bottled water. I brushed my teeth with bottled water and took no ice in my soda. No one got sick. I will say that the traffic in Cairo is unbelievable. It's terrible. No lanes, few stop lights, It's like dodge 'em. YOu can walk around but you will get pestered by locals to buy stuff. Tell them no, and they leave you alone. I got my pockets picked in Rome by trevi Fountain. I didn't have any problems in Cairo.

R94 You were on a guided tour so I guess you didn't leave the beaten path and travel alone. I was with a pal who has worked all over Africa and recently we talked about the huge disappointment that Egypt was. Perhaps it has gotten better over the last 5 years, but when your journey begins with the immigration officer asking you to pay for the return of your passport, your eyes are opened and you see the place as it really is.

To the poster who has been to 60 countries, may I ask what you do for a living? Did you inherit wealth? I’m just very curious because that’s a lot of money to travel that much. Just curious is all.

[quote] I'd even like to go to Saudi Arabia one day if possible.

Only if it was possible to safely make it with some of the sexually repressed guys running around. So, probably not.

I lived in Jeddah for 8 months in 1981 and also visited Riyadh and Dhahran several times while there (as well as Amman, Egypt, Doha, Manama, Abu Dhabi.)

Canada!

You know how "nice" they all seem? It;s just a front. None of them would hesitate to cut a bitch.

^^^ And the weather sucks. It never stops raining in Vancouver and they got all bitchy when David Duchovny complained about it.

Thanks for the helpful info, R104. Glad you had a good time.

ANY country in Asia. I wouldn't step foot in a single one.

What's wrong with Japan, other than the fact that if you're white and you sit next to a Japanese person on the train, they'll get off at the next stop. They don't want to sit next to whitey.

Too. Fucking. Crowded.

[...]

North Korea is a no-brainer. Who the hell wants to go there.

South Korea: I'd like to go. I love Korean food and they have cooler seasons.

India: I love Indian food and I would consider going there during the right season (weather).

I want to visit Ceylon, Burma and Rhodesia.

R117 but would you go to Myanmar, Sri Lanka or Zimbabwe?

[quote] relaxed masculine men

🫢

The insular opinions here are far more nauseating than any food served at the Cairo Hilton.

R107: Top tip, head to London during the summer and check out some of the bars in Soho, there are loads of Saudi boys over to play for long weekends.

R108: Well, how was it?

Ghana is an antigay shitholse R8. Even the biggest celebrities there are terrified of being outed.

Korean is by far the eaiest China-like Asian language to write and read (so obviously we are not talking Indonesia).

R123 Korean is not linguistically related to Chinese at all.

North Korea. For reasons that are well known to it.

Russia- the Russians I have met over the years have all been the most tacky & rude people. Also Russian cuisine...... China- I have been & have no desire to go back. Also interacting with the Chinese here in the US- nothing endearing about that culture. India- Haven't been, but have friends that have been & hated it. The poverty & filth- I cant look beyond that visiting a country. Also the Indians I have worked with here in the US, they are always late & always want a discount.......

I didn't have any real reason for the idea, but Haiti once seemed like it'd be cool to visit. Joining a day tour about the historic slave rebellion, all that bright self-taught art, and it's never had the reputation of being overrun with American tourists (a plus).

But I think it is going to stay a "never," because at the rate things are going I'll be dead before it's fit to enter.

Latveria.

I hear their king is a nutjob.

Haiti. It seems sad there and unsafe.

Any country that has an extradition agreement with Bhutan.

Genovia.

[quote]In retrospect, I shouldn't have eaten the salad.

It's usually ice in drinks or the shower.

China: People who have left the place to live in other countries say it is a polluted hell-hole. And they never go back to see their relatives.

Indonesia: Just too fucking scary, even Bali is too risky.

India, Thailand and Cambodia: Everyone who goes gets sick.

The Middle East: No fucking way.

Russia and Mexico: Wish I'd gone decades ago, but not worth it now.

North Korea: They don't let anyone in or out, do they?

I was forced to go to Nigeria for my brother's wedding even though I said I never wanted to go. Half of my siblings married Nigerians. I was able to avoid it for the twenty-five years of my older brother's marriage and Nigerian in-laws, but my younger brother just got married to a Nigerian woman last December. The women themselves are educated beyond (as are many many Nigerians educated abroad) having attended Penn Law and Wharton, respectively. But that country is a shit show. I have never seen such poverty first hand literally next to a ten million dollar home with the billionaires boat parked right in front. The plane ride alone on AirFrance smelled like ass as soon as I stepped on and it looked like backstage of the Muppet show with all the massive hair hats and braid the women were wearing. The airport, my god... 8 people movers, all broken, outlets broken, the door to the bathroom, broken. The wedding itself was 1500 people with a staff of about 100 poor Nigerians working it. Every time you passed a staff member they asked if you wanted to bless them with a gift of good tidings. I was like "the rich people are inside..." There is an entire island in the middle of Lagos of nothing but shanty homes staked on top of each other with like 250k people living in them. The entire country seems to be outside and on the side of the road. The crazy thing is that everyone on all levels seemed to be OK with it. The upper class LOVES it and travels back as often as they can. The poor people seem to be OK with their lot in life. But you have to live behind gate with guards, escorted everywhere with by armed guards. Even cars entering the hotel driveway had to open the hood and the trunk to check for bombs before entering. It was the worst.

Floriduh.

Like OMG, there are countries in this world where you have to actually see and interact with poor people and, gasp, they smell bad too. I never get diarrhea from the Chipotle next to Taco Bell by the Dunkin Donuts near the Walmart. And at least the obese people in my family are well fed! There is no way I can look at one of those third world beggars in the eye without throwing up my food from the sight of them. They don’t take showers and some of them need to discover Old Spice deodorant. Just filthy. A proper vacation for me is the Wilton Manor beach cabana with handsome men serving me my spicy margarita, made with clean drinking water straight from the tap, a bag of my Costco jujubes, and some nice shade. No homeless people in sight. Ah, America.

R136 acts like it is free to travel and probably doesn't have a passport. No I am not going to spend $8000 just to experience exactly what you described. So you are about right. And besides, you conveniently left out that in half of the places mentioned it is illegal to be gay. So yeah, why would I want to support the economy of a country that jails or persecutes people like me?

We all know R136 is wearing a caftan and earrings.

R117, first, you may have to take a trip in a time-machine.

Anecdote: I was talking to a travel agent (yes, they still exist) yesterday evening. And this topic (tangentially) came up. He told me about one of his client's parents that came to visit the USA and got mugged on their second day in midtown Manhattan. They lived in Mumbai for 60 years and never had this happen to them.

I love, and by that I mean, fucking hate all the posts that start, "I knew someone who went to...and hated it" "Well, Wikipedia says..."

Get out there and experience shit for yourselves.

There are A LOT of countries that are extremely homphobic - Jamaica, Dubai (UAE in general and a slew of Muslim Nations), Nigeria (and a slew of African nations), Samoa, Papua New Guinea. For that reason alone, you won't find me supporting their economies with tourist dollars when there are so many accepting, beautiful nations to visit.

Isn’t it illegal to say “gay” in Tampon, Flori-duh?

R115, Israel isn't a genocidal fascist state, that's just antisemtic propaganda bullshit. The REAL reason not to go is because the Arabs around it are all terrorists who want to attack and destroy it, who will literally torture and butcher you for being gay or jewish... they're the REAL genocidal fascist terrorists.

That said, I'd never set foot in a single country anywhere in the backwards barbaric Middle-East.

r142, nope, no propaganda there in your post.

That is correct. Just facts.

You can see it by what Hamas did on October 7th, unless you're an antisemetic bigot who wants to ignore reality and blame the Jews for everything.

R134 There is a sizeable Nigerian population in my country. My neighbour’s daughter married a Nigerian man. They married here but had the reception in Nigeria. Their impression of the country is the same as yours except his people are not educate your kids in the US rich. He’s a cab driver here and his family in Nigeria are small business owners. My neighbours came back with a sort of existential crisis. Their son in law insists that the poverty in Nigeria is just “normal” poverty that can be seen anywhere. They insist it’s not and it was hell on earth.

Yes I know that R15, sheesh. There are many nations in Africa I would visit- Some, no, due to political reasons. That was sort of my point.

I’ll never visit Cuba as long as it is a communist prison state.

I've been to Sri Lanka to an elephant sanctuary among other things. Once you get used to the monkeys visiting your room through open windows, and stealing from you it's fine. The thing to remember when you go to South East Asia or the Middle East, or countries in Africa, is that the standard of living is so different from ours, that the poor in America have it better than the poor in those regions. Life is a daily struggle and for many of them, getting a job working in a hotel like a Hyatt or a Marriott, or a Hilton is something they are very proud of. I can't tell you how often the young ones told me that they sent money home to their families who still lived in small villages.As we drove down the roads leaving a city, it very quickly became rural, and people still used carts with donkeys to transport goods and they rode three or four to a small motorbike. I saw workers carting huge bundles of sugar cane on regular old bicycles piled so high you wondered how it all got to its destination. And in Cairo, if you turned down a street getting away from the hotel, any side street, the small grocery stores, clothing stores, all manner of little shops were there for the locals. We didn't feel unsafe. The people were very kind. In fact if I had to describe the experience at all I was most impressed with their kindness. But then, we were tourists, American tourists.

Under the right conditions, there are few places I wouldn't go - I'd even go to Russia since I'd love to see the Winter Palace, all that - but I would not go to Saudi Arabia. Hellhole country, most of which would love to cut your head off if given the opportunity and sponsors of terrorism.

[quote]and sponsors of terrorism

and, sponsored heavily by whom???

I've heard a lot of talk about Dubai but I would never consider going there.

Second me for Jamaica. The homophobia and the pushy attitude of people who are from Jamaica. My grandmother had a nurse from Jamaica who was an absolute cunt. And I knew guys from the JBM growing up. Terrible human beings, if you want to call them that.

Afghanistan and Iraq. Do I really need to explain why?

R141, since the mayor of Tampa is openly gay, no.

Italy

Origin place of so many rightwing shitstains

Cowardly ship captains

People squawk like parrots

Birthplace of fascism

[quote]R65: Keep back-pedalling [R48]. You’re the one who thought that a massive continent of 54 countries was one country, not me. I’m glad that you’ve been educated just a little bit today.

No, sweetheart - that was R6, not me. I never claimed that Africa was one country. My observation was that none of the 54 countries in Africa are 'safe' to visit. Pay attention to who's posting what.

Are all American gays as sheltered and uneducated as the people posting on this thread? Depressing. Stay home, please.

No r157. Thr rest are EVEN MORE SO.

Long ago I told my mother (a worldwide traveler) not to go to India because the New York Philharmonic (or something like that) were driven from their 5-star hotel by swarms of cockroaches. She went anyway, didn't see a cockroach.

I would never step foot anywhere in asia or the middle east or most of africa. There are many places in central and south america I would never set foot in.

Hell, there are states in the United States I'd never set foot in.

Sounds kind of silly to say you'd never go anywhere in "Asia," but OK.

Talk about menace and corruption, then you gotta talk about Mexico. I've been to Acapulco several times and to Cancun and Cozumel and the abject poverty of the people, begging in the streets, kids selling chewing gum, outside high end restaurants, street crime, etc. The homeless sleeping on the beaches and during the nights, the National Police stationed on the beaches with automatic weapons, in Acapulco Bay You'd look out your hotel window and see homeless people, kids sleeping in the shadowed corners of the hotel grounds. And you haven't met corruption until you've dealt with Mexican cops. This was my experience in the 80's and 90's. I don't think much has changed. I can say the same for Brazil. So put Mexico on your list for filth, poverty and corruption.And yeah, as careful as we were, we all got sick about three days into our trip.

in MAGA, we believe filth, poverty and corruption are centered in NYC and SF.

In Malibu, the homeless are sleeping on the beaches and during the nights. What has America become? A third world country?

R155 = American without a passport.

For those who say they'd never go to Asia, Japan is a phenomenal place, ultra-modern next to the very old and traditional. I'd like to go to Taiwan and South Korea. All three of them probably have a higher standard of living than any western country.

I have been to China six or seven times. I like Shanghai quite a bit but it is a difficult country. My worst experience was in Chengdu. They told us to visit the market and I had to leave. Disgusting. Also, if you have a problem with people spitting, China is not the place for you. They do it everywhere.

I’m going to assume there was animal cruelty involved at that market R167.

Hong Kong is also a cool place to visit. I've never been to mainland China, so can't compare.

R166 have you seen the movie, Parasite? You should.

I'm gonna avoid Japan because it's fucking radio active, and they keep having earthquakes and tidal waves and shit.

I'm an admitted travel junkie: I've been to nearly 90 countries on all seven continents. At one point I was less than a month away from touring North Korea when they announced that they'd developed their own nuke. (I wanted to go anyway, but the touring company discontinued all tours after that.) I do, however, have a list of likely permanent no-go locales.

A few are obvious, e.g. Russia or any Muslim country that actively targets gays. (I'm fine with ones that don't, e.g. Morocco & the UAE.) Also obviously Uganda & Jamaica. Some are just common sense: the majority of sub-Saharan Africa is either enmeshed in wars or conflicts of some sort, and aren't likely to have any Western tourism in my lifetime. (OTOH it's fucking ridiculous to say you never want to visit "Africa," more generally. Morocco is incredible; Egypt is partially in Africa (though I haven't yet been); and South Africa is a breathtakingly incredible country that's been sadly ruined by Jacob Zuma's time as president. Google the term "load-shedding" to see how massively fucked up it is today.

I was apparently ahead of my time in this manner, but I've declined multiple invites over 20 years to visit one country in particular: Israel. I refused because I don't support apartheid, an explanation that even *five* years ago required explanation to most Americans. (And to get it out of the way: yes, I think Hamas's attack was fucking appalling, but Israel's response is vastly worse, and the end is nowhere in sight.) I was, however, less than a week from departing for a trip to nearby Jordan – mainly to see Petra – in early March 2020, which obviously didn't end up happening.

While I'd like to think R6 is joking about not visiting countries if the people in them are "ugly," unfortunately a now-former friend of mine did the same fucking thing. Appalling. (And who the fuck flies all the way to India just to get laid? You can get your dick sucked anywhere, but there's only one Taj Mahal.)

Also can't believe anyone would simply dismiss the entirety of Asia as if it's some sort of monolith. While I'd definitely agree it's intimidating in many ways, it has some of the world's most truly astounding sites. I'd actively avoided visiting Angkor Wat because I knew how badly it'd suffered the ravages of mass tourism. The pandemic ground tourism throughout Southeast Asia to a halt, however, but when they announced its countries were reopening, I booked a ticket there immediately. (Also helpful that I could fly literally anywhere accessible via commercial flight and in business class, since so few people were yet traveling. Not joking that my flight from Singapore to Tokyo – on a JAL Boeing 787 – had a grand total of 11 passengers!)

Angkor Wat routinely saw 20,000 visitors a day pre-Covid, mainly Chinese & Russian. The *largest* total for the three days I was there? 56 people. (And I had a five-star hotel for $26/night, including meals *and* booze.) Handily in my top-three travel experiences EVER, though Antarctica tops that list permanently.

The one region I haven't yet explored at length: East Asia. Unlike R171, I know full well that the entirety of Japan isn't "fucking radio active [sic]," and that ample amounts of radiation emanate from the Earth's crust every second. Japan, South Korea & Taiwan are all possible options for my next big international trip, and I'd literally be hiking through Patagonia right now if I hadn't broken my ankle in late November.

But WOW are some of you bitches provincial, bigoted and/or cowardly! Obviously I get it if you refuse to visit anywhere hostile to gays, but Italy FFS? Seriously?? (No, it being the "birthplace of fascism" isn't a sufficient excuse.) I guess we simply differ, but there's one country I would *totally* visit in a heartbeat if it ever overthrows its leaders: Iran. It has some of the most stunning architectural wonders in the world, and unlike those in Afghanistan and Syria, they haven't been systematically destroyed by the Taliban or any extreme Muslim factions.

R168 to a level I had never seen before. And the products they were displaying were gross but the smoking, the dirty nails of the shopkeepers touching everything and the constant spitting....

Out of curiosity, those of you have who would never visit xyz, have you even traveled out of your home state?

I’ve been to Ecuador before, but I think I would stay away for now. I would only go back for the Galapagos anyway.

R173, you're aware that cooking food eliminates all cooties, right? I'm guessing you don't know that hygiene standards right here in the ol' U.S. of A. are sometimes as bad as anywhere in China. If you think their wet markets are gross, try visiting an industrial farming facility in any given Central US state. Cattle are killed using the same prod Javier Bardem wielded in "No Country for Old Men."

While this doesn't seem physically possible, the "processing plant" I once visited (long story, but it was part of a work-related project) had over 600,000 cattle ON SITE (!!!). (It was admittedly hundreds, if not thousands, of acres, but still.) Considering that the cattle are almost instantly eviscerated along the bottom – allowing their guts, and accrued feces, out – and it's routine for some of said feces to make its way onto the final product, you're being more than a bit naive. (And prissy.)

If you live anywhere in the southwest US, you've likely had meals prepared in part by undocumented workers paid under the table. (They handle most low-level cooking tasks in the kitchen.) True story: I went to a well-known Tex-Mex restaurant in Austin about 15 years ago. When going to the bathroom to pee, I saw a kitchen worker come out after taking a shit – and carrying all of his dirty TP in a plastic bag. And no, he didn't wash his hands. (Btw it's standard in most parts of Mexico & Central America to not flush TP; they have subpar septic systems that can't handle TP, period.)

Yes, Chinese men spit a lot. OTOH I was in San Francisco two months ago and a homeless guy dropped trou 10 feet away from me – on the middle of a sidewalk near Union Square – and squirted out pure liquid shit. (Thankfully NOT in my direction.) If you can't handle even the *slightest* grossness in your travels, why not become a shut-in already?

R175, the topic is "name a country you'll never visit." You've already been to Ecuador, which by itself eliminates it, and while I also wouldn't go right *now*, I definitely would once its domestic situation improves. (It did in Colombia, which was formerly *far* worse off.)

Most Americans have no passport/interest in traveling. It does require a curiosity in other people and a willingness to get out of their comfort zone. It also can be rather expensive. I prefer to go to places where most Americans avoid. That said, I probably won't make it to Israel at this point, for obvious reasons.

South Korea uses fertilizer made from human waste…don’t eat the produce unless it’s thoroughly cleaned.

[quote]....but there's only one Taj Mahal.

And these days it's shrouded in pollution.

[quote]South Korea uses fertilizer made from human waste…don’t eat the produce unless it’s thoroughly cleaned.

The fuck?? Nearly ALL fertilizers – the natural, non-chemical variety, that is – are derived from shit, though most use animal shit. Shit's still shit though, and even in the US you shouldn't eat produce unless it's been thoroughly cleaned. (We don't use human waste as fertilizer, but the impoverished migrants who pick nearly every bit of fruit & veg grown in America routinely have filthy hands – in part because the farms where they work almost never have toilets (even port-a-potties). No toilets = migrants peeing & pooping in the fields adjacent to where they're working at the time, obviously sans soap & water for handwashing.

Really, unless you grow ALL of your own food, there's always at least the chance of encountering food that may include stuff you don't like (such as human waste), and I say that having once gotten one of the most severe ailments in this area: E. coli. Still the only time in my life that I had both a 104º fever and literal delusions. (Not counting that time in college on shrooms.)

I thought human waste was nastier than animal waste because most of us are omnivores.

Human waste is nastier because if it hasn't been properly composted, the viruses and parasites in it may cause disease.

[quote]Most Americans have no passport/interest in traveling. It does require a curiosity in other people and a willingness to get out of their comfort zone. It also can be rather expensive.

Most Americans, yes, R177. IN 2017, 42% of Americans held a passport (including passport cards -- good for Mexico, Canada, Bermuda, Caribbean countries by land or sea). I was surprised, however, by the strong rate of growth in passport numbers.

- In 1990, 3% of Americans had passports

- In 2007, 27%

- In 2017, 42%

For comparison, 66% of Canadians hold passports, 76% of UK citizens, and 80% to high 90s% for nearly all of the EU.

Of course not every American can afford international travel, but I'm always amused by the excuses: "There are so many states right here in the US that I've never seen, why would I leave the country?" (asked by someone who has never been to Nebraska, for example), or even the expense, poor-mouthed by someone with multiple cars in their garage, or a five-acre plot that they can't keep mown because they don't want neighbors too near.) For people who *could* make travel a priority but don't, I think the root reason is a deep-seated suspicion of travel and of other countries. Curiosity is discouraged through a years' long indoctrination that all of the rest of the world is a shithole, scraping by in miserable and/or quaint conditions, backwards, and stiffled without the great American Freedoms.

[quote]From among the 50 states and Washington D.C., Americans on average have been to 17. While one in 10 Americans (11%) say they've never left the state they live in, fewer than 2% say they've visited at least 50 of the 51 states and D.C. [source: today.yougov.com/travel/articles/43843]

R183 link re passports:

Or Americans just don’t have the time off to travel.

The great conspiracies about thinking America is so great wouldn’t preclude a citizen from traveling to other states

"The poverty, the filth, the air quality of the large cities, the smells, crap in the streets, the food, and finally, all of those phone people I've had the misfortune of speaking with over the years"

Are you sure you aren't thinking of California?

R183, I know most Americans lack passports, but those stats still seem off (and R184's link to the supposed page containing them doesn't work). Only 3% of ALL Americans had passports in 1990?? I'd already visited a dozen countries by then! (NOT counting Canada or Mexico)

[quote]For comparison, 66% of Canadians hold passports, 76% of UK citizens, and 80% to high 90s% for nearly all of the EU.

I'm unclear why you think this is novel. You can't travel within the Schengen Area without at least *obtaining* a passport from your home nation, even if you don't need one for crossing its internal borders. The UK was part of it until Brexit, so that includes them as well. (I'll be curious to see if their passport numbers drop as one issued pre-Brexit start expiring en masse.) Canada's still a Commonwealth country, so I'm not surprised by their high passport-possession rate.

[quote][A]sked by someone who has never been to Nebraska, for example

Curious example: I've been to 40+ states, but never Nebraska – in part because my best friend moved there for a few years after college and consistently described it as a "boring shithole filled with nothing but Republicans and farms." Am I missing something?

Sorry for the link, R187. Here's a different link to the same data.

[quote]I'm unclear why you think this is novel. You can't travel within the Schengen Area without at least *obtaining* a passport from your home nation, even if you don't need one for crossing its internal borders.

I don't find it novel. I added those numbers just for some comparison/context. Passports are commonplace in the EU, sometimes simply as an alternate form of ID, even if a proper national identity card for EU citizens/permanent residents [bold]is sufficient[/bold] for travel within the Schengen area.

[quote] As an EU national, you have the right to travel freely in the 27 EU member countries as well as in Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland (non-EU countries but members of the Schengen area) carrying either a valid passport or a national identity card (ID). [source: europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/]

Your friend is right about Nebraska. I too have been to just over 40 US states and have had the misfortune to have been over most of Nebraska and...Nothing to see there. I picked it only as just one of the deadliest dull of US states, but there are others that are far from the equal of the states richer in things worth travelling to see. Many Americans cling to the romance of the old roadside diner paper place-mats with the a map of the 50 states shown, thinking that the rest of the world can wait until they've seen Tulsa. Not every state is a cornucopia of riches for the traveller.

The Netherlands

For the amazing Dutch dick

R186: More likely, Florida.

R187 - serious question - what does Canada being in the Commonwealth have to do with their passport possession numbers?

Where does your mom live? I won’t visit there.

Yeah, I don't see how human waste is any worse than any other omnivore waste (for fertilizer). Unless the human is on chemotherapy or something like that.

I'm not sure what the percentage of Canadians having passports has to do with the Commonwealth. I think it has more to do with 9/11. Prior to that, Canadians could travel to the U.S. by land and by air with just a driver's license and a birth certificate. Many Canadians who live near the border travel by car to the U.S. for cheaper gasoline, groceries, etc.

After 9/11, the evil Yankees decided to make passports mandatory because they're so worried about Canadian terrorists.

R44 Well, I never!

R193, because diseases in human poop are more easily transmitted to other humans than diseases in animal poop. The bacteria, viruses and parasites have already adapted to the human gut. It's common sense.

[quote]I want to visit Ceylon, Burma and Rhodesia.

Make sure to add Upper Volta, Bechuanaland, and East Pakistan to your list!

Thank you [R10]!

Andorra but only because it seems difficult to get to…

Singapore... too many rules

I think I'll scratch Ecuador off my bucket list.

[quote]Sounds kind of silly to say you'd never go anywhere in "Asia," but OK.

Why? Name one place there that has anything even remotely appealing to me. It's vastly overpopulated (I loathe crowds), don't care for most of the food, lots of it is poor and crime-ridden and polluted... I can't think of a single place in all of ASIA, from Russia to India to Japan to Indonesia, that I'd actually have any desire to go for any reason at all.

R166, the idea of visiting Tokyo is my idea of hell. You couldn't pay me enough to go to such a huge crowded place where I don't know the language, don't like most of the food, and can't stand the culture.

R202 I’m assuming that you’ve at least travelled to some places in “ASIA” - as you call it - to have made this very informed opinion.

Could you find “ASIA” on a map? Do you have a passport? Have you used it?

Tokyo is one city in Japan. Japan has varied population densities, depending on where you are, geographically. The population density of NYC is not representative of the entire US.

Really?

Doesn't Cherry Blossom Season appeal? Not even a tiny little bit?

China. Filthy air and tiny dicks.

R201 Friends retired in Ecuador, outside of the big cities. High elevation, perfect weather, friendly people. They are very happy.

R205, R203 doesn’t understand that Japan is not just one city and hates the food even though you can get a decent cheeseburger there. As far as the culture? R203 is obviously highly educated in Japanese culture to make such a sweeping statement.

R207 do you only visit places (states, in your case, rather than countries, obviously) where you are likely to get laid?

You’re a bit pathetic, aren’t you, R207?

Seth Efrica

R210 The prospect of getting laid in a foreign land is one of the best parts of traveling.

get with the times, people. my husband and i just came back from 2 weeks in India and it was one of the most glorious trips we've ever taken. there's a smart and dumb way to visit any country.

R213 there’s a whole lot of dumb on this thread.

R211 Cape Town was one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. I highly recommend it!

R212 Furthermore, there's often a very enjoyable extra level of intensity when having sex with a man from a homophobic country, as compared to one from a more liberal country. Take that for what it's worth.

Holland, because I think it could never SUPPORT me!

Me...

Russia because Putin is evil and I don't want to step on to the ground he may have walked.

When you say “Holland” you mean “The Netherlands”, right, R217?

R210 is Chinese.

Sorry about your penis.

r221 is five years old. Sorry about your stunted mental growth.

So you *are* Chinese, R222. Got it.

Hey, take heart. You're ahead of Turkey and Ireland!

I’ve been to Asia, Europe, Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean. I would not trade my experiences for anything, but the older I get the more safer I feel about staying in my own country. I love cruises but they give you one or two days in a port, which is quite enough for me.

[quote] more safer

Eat my 💩 r225.

Any place with virulent anti-gay laws.

God, some of you people are boring and scared of your shadow. Keep to Disney.

My list of countries visited: 🇦🇱🇦🇩🇦🇷🇦🇼🇦🇺🇦🇹🇧🇸🇧🇪🇧🇦🇧🇼🇧🇬🇧🇮🇰🇭🇨🇦🇧🇶🇨🇱🇨🇳🇨🇴🇨🇩🇭🇷🇨🇼🇨🇿🇩🇰🇪🇨🇪🇬🇪🇪🇸🇿🇫🇴🇫🇮🇫🇷🇩🇪🇬🇷🇬🇹🇭🇰🇭🇺🇮🇸🇮🇳🇮🇩🇮🇪🇮🇹🇽🇰🇱🇦🇱🇸🇱🇮🇱🇺🇲🇴🇲🇾🇲🇹🇲🇽🇲🇩🇲🇨🇲🇪🇲🇦🇲🇿🇳🇦🇳🇱🇲🇰🇳🇴🇵🇦🇵🇪🇵🇱🇵🇹🇷🇴🇷🇺🇷🇼🇷🇸🇸🇬🇸🇰🇸🇮🇿🇦🇪🇸🇸🇪🇨🇭🇹🇭🇹🇷🇺🇬🇺🇦🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇾🇻🇦🇻🇳🇿🇲🇿🇼

Where I have no desire to go: most Caribbean countries that cater to cruise ships. UAE and Qatar…I’d visit on a layover but have no desire to make them a destination because of the fakeness and influencer culture. Anywhere experiencing war or conflict. Duh.

Good starter countries for you fraidy-cats: Ireland, Iceland, Norway, Finland, Malta, Singapore, Uruguay. In Africa: Botswana and Namibia.

Damn, many flags didn’t make it through.

If you have never left the country (Canada doesn't count) and you want to put your toe in the water, so to speak, then go to the UK. Go to Paris and London. You've seen enough about them on TV so you won't feel totally out of place and "scared." If you're really "adventurous" after that, schedule it so that you spend four days in London and it's surroundings, four days in Paris and its surroundings, and hop on a train in Paris and go to another country In a matter of 3-5 hours you can be somewhere else and have a look around for a couple of days. Eurail is cheap.

Yes, but are the French really obnoxious if you only speak English?

Are you an international jewel thief r228?

This seems like as good a place as any to drop this for some of you.

China -- I lived in Japan too long, and their prejudice against China rubbed off on me.

Damn, how long were you in Japan, and seriously never popped over to China r234?

About five years, r235. I went to Korea, but not China. No way!

[quote] If you have never left the country (Canada doesn't count) and you want to put your toe in the water, so to speak, then go to the UK. Go to Paris and London.

Paris is kind of daunting, IMO. I'd say go to London and maybe Germany. Both countries, you can get by with English. You can get by with English in Paris, too, but I'd say they're prickly there about Americans.

That said, I loved Paris, even though I got treated rudely.

London, Paris: Expen$ive.

Italy was really easy to get around with just English too, at least the big touristy cities.

R234 number one way to justify heinous torture and murder of an entire populace aka what the Japanese did to the Chinese during WWII— brainwashing citizens into thinking said populace are subhuman.

You were trained well.

Actually, R239 , having lived in Asia for a number of years I can tell that some of the most virulent anti Chinese commentary that I heard was from ethnic Chinese in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Malaysia. No brainwashing at all - just a belief that mainland Chinese are on the whole not pleasant to be around.

Having spent a lot of time there, I concur.

All this “getting by with English” nonsense - have none of you ever heard of Google Translate?

After visiting southern Italy, I've had enough of the 3rd world.

See the countries with ANY shade of brown in the image at the link:

Because the average American has historically been resistant to learning other languages, the rest of the world has been forced to learn American English. It may surprise you to discover that the average European can speak several languages, including English. Now it may not be perfect English, but they will understand you and they will respond. In English. I've been to Paris, London, Rome Florence, Venice, Capri, etc.etc..etc. and never had any problem ever. Even in the little shops and local stores. And it wouldn't hurt for you to learn to say a few words, like please and thank you. Even if your language skills are poor, they appreciate the effort.

The rest of the world isn’t forced to learn American English. They chose to learn it because American pop culture dominated for decades.

What an asinine conclusion.

[quote]After visiting southern Italy, I've had enough of the 3rd world.

You have no idea.

R244 R245 It's much more complex than that... yes "American movies/pop culture" was an international presence... but England and its empire spread English all over the world, then American economic and scientific emergence... and so English became the lingua franca... the language of science, business. There are many more in the world now who speak English as a second language than as their native language.

But it's not universal. Last year I was in Portugal and Galicia. I found English speakers everywhere in Portugal... not so much in Galicia.

True R247 the US dominated in more than just pop culture. However, the idea that the world was forced to learn American English because Americans won’t learn a second language is ludicrous.

[quote]After visiting southern Italy, I've had enough of the 3rd world.

Yeah, The Amalfi Coast, Positano, Vietri Sul Mare, Taormina, Trapani, Capri, Procida, Lecce, Sorrento, Alberobello ....just awful!

R242 = Northern Italian

R248 I think we are in agreement - the first more accurate edit here is to stop talking about "American English"....it's English.

For an example, if you are a physics student, who wants to study and do research in quantum mechanics, for example, you need to speak, read, and write English.

Some of this was developed by the attraction and elite status of American universities.... the hegemony of American (to a degree, British) education and research was substantially weakened when Trump made America off limits or hostile to immigrants. How much that damage was permanent is still not certain.

But advanced students in Berlin and Beijing still need to learn English.

[quote]R251: I think we are in agreement - the first more accurate edit here is to stop talking about "American English"....it's English.

'American' English has quite a few proprietary spellings, usages, vernacular, idioms and colloquialisms, different from the British and/or Australian.

OK, not "forced" but enticed by American tourist dollars post WW 2.

India, because it is a shithole. Russia, for what they’ve done to Ukraine. China, for what it does to their own people.

R253 here. Not everything was driven by scholarly pursuits and universities. I don't disagree with the fact that they were an influence but the average person with no college education also learned English. If your economy is a tourist driven economy, then the workers are going to do what they need to do to accommodate that.

R252 You do understand that your "distinction" is irrelevant to the point being discussed, right?

The few Americans who for whatever reason to speak England English end up sounding like William Buckley

[quote] for whatever reason to speak England English

try*

It sounds horribly put on. Like we’re satirizing an Oscar Wilde play.

Saudi Arabia...I'm gay...Enough said.

Russia under Putin...see above

China under Xi...Why do I want to spend my money to support a genocidal, dictatorial, human rights-abusing regime???

[quote] China under Xi...Why do I want to spend my money to support a genocidal, dictatorial, human rights-abusing regime???

Don’t visit the United States if there is a second Trump term.

Russia under Putin and waging war against Ukraine

China because the Chinese are so unpleasant and disgusting

Hungary because it is so right wing

I would have said Poland, but they have been wonderful in taking Ukrainian immigrants

Saudi Arabia because it isn’t safe, which is too bad because they are starting to develop the country in interesting ways

Budapest is splendid. The people are great.

R263 Refreshingly, Poland just got rid of their semi-fascist government and elected enlightened progressives.. I 'd love to go to Poland and Czech Republic and Hungary

I wouldn't say never but I'll probably never visit Venezuela, Haiti and a bunch of unsafe countries like Sudan, Chad, Somalia.

[quote]I 'd love to go to Poland and Czech Republic and Hungary

Go, they are cheap, safe and great places to visit. I've been to Budapest, Prague and Krakow which are all lovely places to visit for tourists with plenty to see.

R265, not Hungary right now. They have an Uber Fascist racist homophobic POS bastard running the country.

Budapesht.

R268 The country is safe, clean, beautiful. No one is going to bother you.

The Alisha stuff is so original and funny!

“Alisha”? Thanks autocorrect.

Still not at all funny.

Humans have pretty much ruined the entire world. There's literally not a single place on the planet that I really want to visit anymore that I haven't already. Hell, I barely want to leave my house anymore.

If you go on Reddit and other sites, the #1 answer to worst country they've ever been to is....Egypt.

I guess you'd have a better time in an escorted group, but walking around the streets is described as being just awful.

It's consistently at the top whenever this question is asked.

Makes India sound like heaven.

[quote]No brainwashing at all - just a belief that mainland Chinese are on the whole not pleasant to be around. Having spent a lot of time there, I concur.

My yoga teaching, free spirited, love everyone, shanti shanti best friend said her layover in China on her way to Vietnam turned her into a racist.

Some people don't have Wanderlusts, and that is fine. I never had much of one, although I do travel. I have no strong desire to visit countries I have never been to before just to experience them. When I travel I want to find places that I will want to return. I'd rather go deep into the culture of one place than dip my toe into several. That is how I enjoy travel, by living like a local in the same place of the course of years. If you travel to all the places as Flagman did above, then you really can't do that.

I admittedly have no Wanderlust, but I did move to Italy in 2021 after 26 years in NYC. It was time for a change. I moved to Rome now I am living in Florence. For a country smaller geographically than the state of California, there are so many unique and different cities to visit. So far I have been to the standard - Venice, Rome, Florence, Milan, Amalfi, Capri. But I loved Siena, Verona, Ortigia. I am 45 minutes aways from Bologna, but I have yet to go, and I want to try and get to Turino next week. You could be completely satisfied traveling around by train in Italy and it's super easy to get to France, Spain, England, et al...

R275 I've been to Egypt several times, but all in the 1980s. Had a great time in Cairo, Luxor and Aswan (took day trip/flight once to Abu Simbel once). I guess it's changed a lot since then.

R6 Since when are Chinese poor or Russians ugly?

R279 are we talking about Russians before 35 years of age or after? The iron curtain wasn't the only metaphoric wall that ran through Eastern Europe.

[quote]Any country where I am illegal and subject to draconian penalties for being and acting gay. I have turned down career opportunities for this.

R4 I'm with you on this, although it hasnt cost me any career opportunities, which is why almost anywhere in the Middle East and north Africa bar Israel is out for me, plus Jamaica, Uganda and the other usual suspects. Most of them are shitholes anyway

[quote]No interest in any muslim majority countries for reasons well known to everybody. Turkey was interesting, but there is predatory behavior towards tourist, especially non-muslim. Morocco was interesting but I don't want to go back. I'll say Israel was fascinating, high-functioning, the people aren't overly friendly but I think it is mainly a language issue, so much history, culture and great food. Really unlike anything else in the region, vastly different and advanced.

R22 I had a brief unavoidable stopover in Turkey some years back, and can confirm the predatory behaviour. That is one place I will not go back to ever. Shithole

[quote]New Zealand. Just doesn't seem worth the hassle. I think v8fairy is from NZ - I apologize.

R27 No need to apologise, I understand - if you have beautiful mountain landscapes and forest where you are it's a hell of a long way to come to see much the same thing

[quote]New Zealand - no historic architecture to speak of; and landscapes that don't excite me

R32 As above for the landscapes, and yeah we dont have much in the way of historical architecture, very little pre 1850, and much of what we did have that was beautiful has unfortunately been lost to greed and stupidity over the years, which is why I have such a thing for Victorian houses, they are rare here, and most of our architecture post 1940 or so is frankly fucking hideous

[quote]I've been fortunate enough to travel a lot. I'm sure this will just not compute for many of you but here goes: by a long, long way, the friendliest people I've met on my travels are..... in Iran. It's a fascinating and beautiful country, there are obvious restrictions on personal freedom if you choose to go there, but you have pretty much total freedom to travel around the country and there isn't a significant problem with violent crime.

R31 actually I can well believe that, Iran is much like China, lovely people under the oppressive yoke of a terrifying authoritarian and dystopian dictatorship, worse for the poor Iranians as its a theocracy as well. And the Iranian people loathe their leaders with good reason, I hope they have a successful revolution there soon. China is out for me because of the CCP, Iran because of the theocracy

I've been to South Africa, and the Cape Town area is not too bad, although you still need to exercise a lot of caution and stay alert in much of the city, but the mountains are beautiful, I climbed five of them while I was there (one was more like a big hill though). Johannesburg has a few attractive bits but frankly I'd give it a miss if my partner didnt have friends and relatives there, most of it is a shithole. I'd like to see Namibia and Botswana, both of these are fairly safe and well run and not overpopulated. I have heard that Rwanda of all places is now very safe, functional and well run and I was told by a guy that'd been working there that it is now as safe as Japan, although that stretches credibility a bit I reckon. The rest of Africa.... pass. Especially the northern bit

India I am leery of, for all the reasons cited above, although there are parts that have much to offer. I'd consider going as part of a package tour that insulated me from the worst of it, one of the few places I'd even consider a package tour.

[quote]I would think Japan would be worth visiting.

R80 it very much is! I have been four times, have relatives there. Beautiful in parts, interesting, different, safe and relatively affordable

The couple of fuckwits that dont want to go to Israel are welcome to their opinion, its on my bucket list along with Taiwan. I'd also like to see Russia once Putin has died (soon and hopefully either from a bullet in the head or by something else nasty, tortorous, painful but final)

Well as I said earlier I just went to Egypt a few months ago and had a wonderful time. If you consider that you are a tourist, and you're just visiting a destination for a short time out of curiosity or whatever, then you will enjoy it. Would I ever consider living in Egypt? Hell no! Why? first of all they have terrible pollution and the big cities are terribly crowded. Second, the laws and religious practices are hostile to someone like me if they're anti Gay. For me, Egypt was an historical destination. I knew why I wanted to go there and I was completely satisfied with what I got in terms of what I expected. In fact, it was better than I expected. As I said earlier, no one in our party got sick from the food or water, and no one was harassed or treated poorly. Three of us were Gay. The other five of us were not. When you travel to these countries as a tourist be sensible. No, you don't just wander off. Not because you may get assaulted or robbed, but because you will be mobbed by people selling things, and they will not leave you alone. We didn't eat street food. We drank bottled water, and when we went out we were escorted and our guides took care of the peddlers. And no one in their right mind would rent a car in Egypt. It is total insanity. And even with all the constraints, I have to say I felt like I had experienced what I came for. I regret our tour didn't provide an opportunity with a local family. Some small groups had that opportunity and loved it.

No one's mentioned Darfur. So when can I expect you?

I wouldn't travel anywhere where you couldn't safely drink the tap water.

R285 plans to avoid MIchigan (and Mississippi, and and and....).

Correct.

I'll go wherever I'm needed — wherever the people need humanitarian relief and a few selections from the Great American Songbook.

I have no urge or reason to leave the USA at this point. I feel comfortable here right now.

I watch a lot of elephant videos from Africa on YouTube. A lot of positive family herd and little ones. Then I try to find something similar in India and it’s all elephants upset and rebelling, punks trying to incite them, all the little chirping men running around like mad ants. That alone makes me dislike India. Added to Asian, Arabic, and much of Latin America.

As I get older I have to confess I don't enjoy traveling much. Flying has become a terrible experience and very expensive. Service is lacking in most decent hotels, and the food is mediocre most of the time.

I'm at a point where I prefer shorter trips by car and finding a nice airbnb. Ive been to Europe several times, Been on a cruise, been to the Middle East, and Mexico and the Caribbean. I'm just over it.

r291 i share your sentiments, actually. But still waiting for the motivation to travel again.

This is a weird one, but I will probably never visit Ireland. Every time I think about going and check out the attractions I'm meh. London has better, and more stuff than Dublin, I live in northern California so I already have scenery galore, the castles and Newgrange seem grotesquely crowded, and I don't drink anymore.

Won't visit India, Egypt, or the Nordic countries which are too expensive for what you get. Ok, maybe Finnish Lapland because I love reindeer and my Ma was Finnish-American.

Similar to R291. I traveled extensively in my 20s, 30s and 40s. Now I find I prefer short trips by car. Travel is a hassle.

R289 Really? You don’t have that nagging feeling deep in your subconsciousness that this trip to the grocery store/movie theatre/office could be your last? That your life could be wiped out by some little mouth breather and his AR-15?

R295, I know exactly what you're talking about. In fact I've stopped driving the freeways and try not to be out past 10 most nights. I'm older so I don't do clubs, but I was never a club kid. If I go to a play or a concert that's a rare thing not something I do more than a few times a year. And I really avoid being out late on weekends especially Thursday, Friday and Saturday. As for supermarkets, I like to shop early in the day, so by the time the rest of the world is moving around I'm done by noon. It's no hardship. I don't feel like I have restricted myself to a f ault. I just feel more relaxed and comfortable living this way. But as careful as I am, Yes, I do worry that some stray has my name on it.

America, because I already live here 😏

America, because I lack any curiosity about any place that isn't.

R298 didn’t understand the assignment

Maybe people on this thread should stick to Florida. Although it might be too “exotic” for some of you.

Florida after Rhonda maybe 🤔

Mississippi. It's another country, just ask them.

R281 - sounds like you're from New Zealand. I was there last year and I think it's absolutely worth a trip. While I appreciate the nature and beauty of the South Island, that doesn't really do it for me.

I stayed primarily on the North Island and had a great visit to Auckland, Rotorua, Napier, some wineries, and Wellington. It was rainy, which was annoying, but very memorable.

It was particularly unique how much the Maori culture and language was promoted AND RESPECTED in NZ. You just don't find that in any other colonized country.

R303 yes, from NZ. And yes, it has been incredibly wet here the last year or two, since the eruption in Tonga threw several billion litres of water into the atmosphere, and what goes up gotta come down sooner or later. I'm a bit surprised you preferred the North Island to the South, personally I find the North Island a bit meh, but I guess it depends on what you are used to as well.

R304, R303 here - I'm more of a city person, so North Island was much more my speed. Napier is a gem - although I hear it was damaged significantly by the hurricane last year. Despite the sulfur smell, Rotorua was also pretty amazing.

I know South Island is more picturesque, but outside of Christchurch, there's not a hell of a lot going on. I need good restaurants, museums, etc.

Btw, the Museum of New Zealand (Te Papa Tongarewa) was one of the best museums I've been to. I could do without the wind though - that was rough.

R296 I’m the same as you, I don’t like to be out late in the evenings, and I go supermarket shopping etc early to ovoid the crowds. I do still travel but I’m done with long haul, I’m in the UK and I stick to Europe these days.

R305–Did you not go to Queenstown?

You couldn't pay me to visit Albania.

R308 Why?

I'd love to go there and hope I eventually do. I speak Italian so I'd get around ok.

R308 I actually am more interested in Albania than a lot of countries. Muslim European country, unique culture and history, Greek/Italian influences. Coastal Adriatic beaches. Castles, mountains, forests. And a gene pool that produces some handsome men.

"Texas," because they think that they are and can be one.

[quote]Muslim European country

For the most part, the people of Albania are Muslim in name, but they're not practicing Muslims. Their relation to Islam is like Italians who identify as Catholic but don't follow church dogma. The Albanians integrate into Europe with no problem, unlike those from other Muslim countries.

All the Albanians I know are sharp, sociable people.

I’m going to Albania in February. I’m looking forward to it (and yes…the men are very attractive!). From all the videos I’ve watched, it seems like a very secular country. At least in the major cities.

Where I live there are many Albanian men, and very few are attractive, and that’s not me being fussy. Very poor teeth is common, they are very heavy drinkers and look fairly battered. Admittedly these are mostly poor Albanians who have travelled to find work.

Me. For reasons that are well known to me.

Charlene reappears at R315 after her previous appearances at r41 and r218.

I’m not Charlene. But I wouldn’t go there either.

Albania has a nutty history, with its former Maoist government. It also has a terrible public health system with epidemics of diseases like TB which have been eliminated in most of Europe.

India, China, North Korea, Russia - obvious reasons.

You couldn't pay me to step foot in Burkina Faso.

Definitely Russia and any of its neighboring -Stan countries. Garbage people.

You're missing out, R320. Tourism thrived before that pesky name change.

I've been to Moscow. It's very gay. (Well...anyway, on the first of May!)

R314 True.

So many of them are in Italy where I lived for many years. Very average at best, handsome ones are rare.

I have had sufficient. I don't have a dewsire or curiosity to go anywhere other than where I have already been. The list of places I am not interested in is long.

It’s dew, sire.

You couldn't pay me to step foot in Yemen.

“Step foot”, R327?

Somalia

Ethiopia

There's tons of countries most people won't ever visit. I mean, I don't plan on joining the Peace Corp.

R115

[quote]Israel. Because a genocidal fascist state ain't ever getting a penny from me.

I don't disagree with you, but you should also add the United States, their weapons supplier.

R328, what problem do you have with that?

I wouldn't step foot in your house if you asked me to.

Rolling my eyes at R331 and R115, two idiot terrorist loving morons. The genocidal ones are HAMAS you fucktards.

It’s “set foot” you idiot, R332.

it’s both

Subtextual racism. Is that a term Harry's ghost writer came up with in Spare? It was Kate and Camilla wasn't it?

I've been to Jamaica a number of times though not recently. You were always told to stay on the resort. Very beautiful and I've flown over it a couple of times in a small plane. Magical. Noel Coward had his house there didn't he? Well things change. It was at one time quite wonderful.

In less tense times I wanted to go to Moscow and St. Petersburg. I should have gone then. That now will never happen.

I had the chance to visit Moscow when my then partner was going to a conference. I couldn’t get leave from work at short notice. He came back raging about the corruption and hustling for money at every level. This was in the 90s.

Actually it’s not, R335. But whatever works for you. Even if that makes you look like an ill-educated fool.

R277 you are doing exactly what I dreamed of doing decades ago. I learned Italian well enough to do business in the language and got a job with an important Italian fashion house and I wanted to move to Italy and live many years there and do just what you are doing. But things got in my way such as deep disappointments, depression, lack of money, and illness. You are living my dream. I'm sure you realize you are molto fortunato.

R339 with the tiniest bit of research it is shown that both have been in play for over 500 yrs. (before Shakespeare)

So Columbus may have stepped foot in the New World and Neil Armstrong stepped foot on the moon 🌝

Neil Armstrong fucked up what he was supposed to say and it makes no sense. And everyone repeats the same mistake.

[quote]you are doing exactly what I dreamed of doing decades ago. I learned Italian well enough to do business in the language and got a job with an important Italian fashion house and I wanted to move to Italy and live many years there and do just what you are doing. But things got in my way such as deep disappointments, depression, lack of money, and illness. You are living my dream. I'm sure you realize you are molto fortunato.

I lived there for many years and am back in the US for family issues, oh how I appreciate the Italian life-style more than ever.

You couldn't pay me to set foot in Syria.

America if I didn't live here...dirty, homophobic, racist and dangerous.

R333 you are so right...these people dont give a rats ass about Gaza, Arabs or “Palestinians” They simply hate Jews no matter what they tell us.

I was watching Velchi this morning and they were talking about how the Arab immigrants in Michigan don’t want to support Biden because of his support of Israel.

Who the fuck are they to try and sway our elections...I dont move to your state or country and expect the natives to change for me...let them go to Gaza if they believe it’s Palestine and force their ways on them

How Gays can stand up for these people who would toss you off a roof for being gay..you have to really really hate Jews to do that

Israel. Don't need to be around murderders.

r338 did he get any hot Russian ass? Heard from another DL thread that service men used to throw themselves at Westerners with money. Hot trade straight from basic training. The 90s were like a sex buffet in Eastern Europe.

[quote] Who the fuck are they to try and sway our elections..

That's our job!

You could never pay me to go to Lesotho.

[quote] Lesotho

Fewer!

All the gay hating homophobic countries and countries that regularly violate human rights, in other words:

Russia

China

India

Most of Africa

Most of the Middle East

Muslim countries

Oh, and Dubai. Gays going to Dubai disgust me. I don't feel bad when the idiots end up in prison. Fuck around and find out.

I'm going to Dubai!

Gays don't actually go to prison in Dubai though. Its a place for sellouts on every level.

You have to prance around naked with a rainbow flag on your ass to get detained there. And even then if you are a foreigner you'll likely just get deported stat.

Now, its neighbors...

I cannot publicly state, at this time, the countries I will never visit. This would give them the advantage. I want them to be on their guard, worried that at any moment I will show up! YES. As to why I will never visit them, again, I cannot divulge the reasons publicly in my lifetime. They know what they have done. All will be known 25 years after my death. Until then, it is under seal.

Can gays hookup in Dubai? Where do they meet?

Prison

You couldn't pay me to step foot in Tamriel

The United States, because I already live here.

Detroit, USA. You know why.

That's not a country, R362.

Or even set foot, R360.

I forgot The Philippines. Hot and steamy in a bad way, hurricanes galore, and the men are short and unattractive.

Latveria. Their king is nuts.

India. For reasons that are well known to them.