Jehovah’s Witnesses on My Property: Did I Overreact?

Please do not approach me

No. They need to fuck off away from peoples homes. Nobody invited them. They are assholes.

You did fine.

Oh hell OP I would have been the same! No pulling up in the driveway! Even if they just intended to back out, she should have been apologetic. I would have thought it's a fucking kidnapping (I live close to Mexico). You poor thing!

MARY!

OP, they were just trying to save you from eternal damnation, cut them some slack.

Maybe it's The Jacksons.

But they can’t save me. I’m a vile homosexual.

I’ve run them off my propitty. You did good.

Yes, you overreacted. Plain and simple.

Oh, pul-eeze. OP! They got off light!

Back before I put up my gate and privacy fence, I had two crews come to my door. The first crew (JW) I simply told, "I'm an atheist and a lesbian, so you can leave right now," and they scurried away. But with the second crew (holly rollers, not JWs), I started a fight with the guy. I told him, "Smart people don't believe in God -- do the research." Then he started yelling at me, and I yelled back, and I finally told him that I was a lesbian and an atheist, and he and his could get off my property and never come back.

And I haven't been bothered by any of them since. I guess word gets around.

I would have asked "Is Prince inside that van? If the answer is yes, then MAYBE you can come in!"

OP, well done. You handled it far better than I and many others would have. You were most assuredly NOT the asshole.

Hope you will have a good rest of your day. You deserve it.

I had somebody from a political party come onto my property like that, too, OP.

Like you, I was STUNNED.

I voted against that party because I was so stunned.

OP, you did good. Totally appropriate response to stupid, intolerant people with no boundaries. More and more I'm seeing the importance on calling people on their shitty, behavior and stupidity.

They'd probably try an intimidation tactic like that if they knew the occupant was a single female. Did you use the word trespassing because that's exactly what they did.

R8

They do not hate you they do not hate other homosexuals. They hate homosexual sex. They went home after you were nasty to them and prayed for your eternal soul. You went to DL and started a thread.

Both doing gods work

How are JWs still a thing, even? Their cult is about as dumb as Mormonism, but those nutters are so loaded and well-organised, that I'm not surprised they're still around. Where the hell is the JW power center and are there any signs of weakening?

They don't judge, they are just witnesses.

The Power of Christ compels you!

Regan MacNeil

I eat old people’s excrement.

If some strangers park in my driveway 'waiting for me' with a chipper smile I would be extremely pissed. I wouldn't even wait to hear their reasons. "Please remove your car from my property immediately" and go inside. That's it.

I don't even like giving these odd specimens any personal information as an explanation. Why tell them I'm gay? It won't necessarily drive them away, more likely it will engage them further. This I do not want. It's certainly not going to soften their stance. "Oh dear, he seems so nice for a sinner, maybe we're wrong about the gay thing?"

My cousin became one but she was booted out because she became too zealous. It cracks me up to think about it. You handled it perfectly.

Lots of people overreact these days. Instead of making every topic in the world a mission for world improvement, I'd just say 'no thanks, I'm not interested.' Not every battle is my battle. And not all of my battles need to be fought. And those battles don't all have to be fought fiercely.

R22, I think it’s valuable to confront them about their bigotry. Maybe over time it will have some small affect on one of them.

(I’d have preferred to have a less emotional discussion about it, but when you park a car with tinted windows on my vacant property, leaving me to wonder if a burglary is in progress, it’s going to be less pleasant.)

A Witness can't divorce. ID Channel had case of man who rather than divorce, murdered his wife.

OP, too bad the visitors weren't two cute Mormon guys you could invite in.

They parked in your driveway spot?? I would have kept on parking.

If you give them the least bit of encouragement. i.e. are polite, they will come back!!

Never feel bad when you defend yourself - I think you handled the situation well.

Have no worries and don't give it a second thought.

In some parts of the country, you could have shot them all for trespassing…as long as they were black.

I'm out and gay and I have a good Jehovah's Witness friend. They're nice people and they condemn us as much as they condemn your average straight guy who has sex before marriage. Just politely tell them you're not interested. Yes, you acted like a self righteous bitch.

There are some really nasty people in the world. Every JW I've ever known has been a good trustworthy person, even when they know you're gay.

You fought fire with fire OP.

Now, the fire will grow because of you.

They will hate gays even more.

Get offa mah propertay, ya vile sorry little bitches!!!

You were nicer than I would have been.

You should follow my lead and just post your property with signs. My signs state that Muslims and Christian’s especially JW and Mormons, based on beliefs I do not approve of, are not welcome on my property.

That sends a strong message but for some reason it also cuts down on the mail I receive and my ability to get food delivered.

Fuck these religious idiots and their dumb shit.

Why do you have to house to house harassing people? If I had any interest in that shit, I would look YOU up. But I don’t. Unless I come to you and ask about your cult, I have ZERO INTEREST in the bullshit you’re selling.

You would think they’d be a little more circumspect with all of the crazy paranoid Fux watchers out there who shoot first and ask questions later.

[quote] You should follow my lead and just post your property with signs. My signs state that Muslims and Christian’s especially JW and Mormons, based on beliefs I do not approve of, are not welcome on my property.

r36 Yeah, I hate those Muslim Jihadists who are always walking on my lawn. Are you afraid of the Avon Lady too?

I should add this: when I saw an unrecognizable car parked in our drive, I had a momentarily fright that I’d had a stroke and returned home to a place we no longer owned… a nightmare I’ve had before. It’s like, I’m screaming people to leave my home and it’s been their house for 30 years.

So that contributed to my mindset.

r39 Take a valium, sweetie.

JW's ARE THE WORST! Besides being serial, harassing Evangelizes of their faith, they are a NASTY, Nasty, Cult that dominates and curtails every part of their Members lives, (No Holidays Celebrations allowed, extreme restrictions on everything from Eating to Marriage, NOTORIOUS perpetrators (as in media documented) Spousal Abuse, SA, Child abuse, etc), and known to "expel" former members to the point of cutting off all contact with former family and friends.

But by FAR the most low-down, coercive behavior they engage in, has GOT to be use of their CHILDREN AND YOUTH, as "fellow" zealots to recruit new members. I have personally experienced this and witnessed it with other friends and family. Not only will members repeatedly visit your home, if you are not Up-front and (yes) rude, they will return and return AND BRING young members to your home to relay their *doctrine*- not only thereby brainwashing these youth, and but subtly using emotional coercion on homeowners in an attempt to make them more open to engagement.

Many years ago in my former life, my young family was harassed in a similar manner by these nuts. No matter how firm, polite, or how much I explained we were not interested, had a different faith, and came back more regularly than a stomach flu.

On the last occasion when they brought their bible-wielding children with them, I simply had enough- told the juveniles with them to cover their ears, and yelled out every single explicative I could think of to tell the JW's what I thought of them and their abhorrent practices.

God- was it worth it. Never came back again, and my kids looked at me with something like awe. I was pretty mild-mannered in those days and they didn't think "mom" had that vocabulary.

Lol, pretty much done a 180,° in my life since then.

Boo hoo

Oh do fuck off R32, otherwise known as DeFacto, you lying sack of shit.

OP's story reminds me of a video I saw on Tumblr, two men answered the door naked to a couple of God-botherers, wish I'd saved the video, the pranksters had lovely backsides.

R44 - Believe it or not, this is illegal in most states, and the local DA will not hesitate to prosecute. Not a good idea, especially if one or more minors are involved.

You did good. my sister tirned into one. There's passage in the NT they call the Great Commission where they have Jebus tell the 'postles to go out and fuck with everyone just like Amway people do. So fuck them. They're not evolved enough to take people as they come; therefore, why listen to 'em?

That's one of the things I like about the Jewish people, they don't recruit. You will never answer an unexpected doorbell, and find two Hasids standing there wanting to talk to you about the Torah.

[quote]I finally told him that I was a lesbian and an atheist, and he and his could get off my property and never come back.

Should've whacked him with your cane or tossed a nut loaf at his head.

A simple “no thank you” would have sufficed.

You’re not going to change their minds any more than they will change yours.

Much smoother to politely but firmly decline and move on.

R47

“Come join us just in time for the next pogrom”

It’s not the kind of recruiting slogan that sells.

[quote] Oh do fuck off [R32], otherwise known as DeFacto, you lying sack of shit.

r43 Take your medication, sweetie. Who's DeFacto? But nice name for a chimera.

R47!—sure…an Orthodox branch wanders through Union Square all the time asking “are you Jewish?”

"road… we have no curbs.. this is the country… so visitors always just park on the edge of our lawn."

Trash

R47, Hasids will approach folks on the street they think are Jewish and ask them if they are. They will then launch into a missive about why you need to be a 'good' Jew like them if you acquiesce. Think Brooklyn. I've had several friends have to rebuff their attempts and I've seen it myself.

r47 Meh, it's just a different type of proselytizing. They don't want your soul because they're chosen and you're not. They just want your money for Israel.

Should've invited them to stay for the Satanic ritual at midnight. You'd even let them slit the throat of the sacrificial baby.

R32, OP explained that his house is somewhat isolated and rural, and the JWs' vehicle was a large SUV with tinted windows and parked right on his property. That changes the whole context. It's totally different from someone just knocking on your door in an urban neighborhood with lots of people around.

OP was justified and in the right.

I get the Jehovah Witness at my door a couple of times a year. I very politely tell them I am an atheist and not really interested, but I thank the for reaching out and I end the conversation.

My partner just got home. He’s less confrontational, yet when he heard the full story, he praised my course of action.

"OP, they were just trying to save you from eternal damnation, cut them some slack."

NO. The JWs' view of salvation is pretty much a Ponzi Scheme. They believe there is a fixed, limited, and predetermined number of souls who will go to heaven. In order to "earn" their own place they must convert a certain number of souls to their church. All of the door-to-door proselytizing is about saving themselves, not you.

They were trespassing with intent. You had every right to call the police on them.

OP was right to run them off. I had a couple of JWs approach me one time while I was pumping gas. They were two teenaged girls. As they started their spiel, I said "Let me stop you right there. I'm an atheist and don't believe in what you're about to tell me, so you'd be wasting your time and mine." They were a little stunned, but polite and wished me a nice day and walked off.

Normally I wouldn't be so curt, but this was while I was dealing with my mom's stroke and dementia and I was not having it.

My neighbors are Jehovah Witnesses. They are very easy-going and kind. I feel sorry for their kids, who are home-schooled and not encouraged to make friends with the neighborhood kids their age, but I talk to the kids over the fence, and throw back balls or whatever they've been playing with that end up in my yard. They don't try to proselytize me. They sent around the kids to invite me to an Easter celebration at their church one time, and I just politely declined. They do give my house a wide berth around Halloween, when I put up a few decorations. I think they've figured out that I'm not a likely convert, so they've never approached me that way, nor do they leave the Watchtower bulletin in my door. My mother, a very devout Catholic, when she was mobile, would invite Mormons and JWs into the house when they made their pitch, which usually would begin with "may we talk to you about prayer, the Bible, or Jesus Christ" - usually one of those three. One hour later, they would leave in a daze, not quite sure what they had just experienced, smiling, yet utterly defeated, and most never returned I think they are very well trained to deal with rejection. What they are not well-trained in is how to deal with someone who will pray with them, and kindly and gently support them in the sincere part of their religiosity while not accepting even the tiniest bit of their belief systems.

It astonishes me that sometimes I am actually glad for the second amendment.

Couldn’t you just say “I am not interested, please move your car.” A little more civility in this world would be good. I am constantly seeing posts on Nextdoor about some suspicion black guy knocking on someone’s door along with door cam video to alert the neighborhood. People have become so aggressive and paranoid. They will shoot the Girl Scout selling cookies or the canvasser getting people to vote.

My dog makes sure they don't bother me.

R59

That is so fucking sweet. Seriously that made me tear up.

The governing body has encouraged Witnesses to try to make contact with people who otherwise have not been home. It's part of a new initiative. I'm sorry you were spooked. All you did by "persecuting" the Witnesses in kind was grant them validation from Jehovah. They're only trying to be disciples in the door-to-door tradition of the original followers of Christ.

I would not be overly stressed by some JW stopping to say hello and be friendly

R62, my mother also ALWAYS invited the JWs and the Mormon missionaries in to present their spiel.

Multiple times I’d come home to black ladies in conservative dresses or clean-cut white boys with name tags conversing with my mom in the living room.

As a teenager, I was mortified and creeped out. I also wanted to tell the visitors that my mother was wasting their fucking time as she was a lackadaisical Presbyterian to the core.

I guess I appreciate her openness and friendliness now, 40+ years later.

But at the time, after the visitors had left, I’d read the insanity from their pamphlets aloud to express my displeasure. The JW ones were especially awful.

But I never succeeded in dissuading my mom from opening our door to proselytizers.

Keep on pretending R51, but you always give yourself away. Tell Gerg hi for us too.

I’m giving my boyfriend a foot job.

OP your creative writing skills are terrible. Seriously. Pick another hobby. Wow.

R72, what an odd comment. I’ll leave it at that. I didn’t say I threw water balloons at them or fired a gun.

Get a life, please.

Missionary work — so crucial to some faiths — is disgusting. It’s religious colonialism.

No you did not!

I'd invite them right in for a generous slice of my famous pie. And I wouldn't let them refuse!

Ask them for their addresses , say you have a couple groups that want to visit them.

The fact they waited for you to return home makes this very uncomfortable.

[quote]I was stunned to see a big SUV in our driveway

HELL NO.

This is the big thing to me. As the OP said, if they had knocked on his door with pamphlets, I would have given them the brush off, but polite.

You do not park in the driveway unless you are expected.

Show them your pussy when they try to hand you a copy of the Watchtower

People who come to you, uninvited, with the intention of forcing their religious views on you are not due any respect beyond basic human decency. Their very presence demonstrates a lack of civility and respect for you, so OP was nicer to them than they deserved.

No overreaction. These people have no right to be on your property in a car or otherwise.

R42 So “nice” to family members who leave JW’s that they shun them and cut off all contact even with adult children?

R32 ^

As a teacher, I find it heartbreaking that JW children are told they may not attend college or university -unless they study JW theology in order to become a pastor. I've had some truly brilliant JW students who might have cured cancer or solved the climate crisis -but they went from high school to the family business or job market. I know they wanted to pursue things like medicine or science, but they couldn't face being ostracized by their families. Such cruelty!

OP, next time lift your caftan and present hole. That’ll teach them!

144000 and not one more. And this includes all souls from all of time. They are like sea org with an apocalypse at the end. You were right OP. Fuck those disingenuous motherfuckers.

After apartment/condo living for 25 years, I returned home to take care of my ailing mother. I'd never had solicitors, religious zealots or anyone thanks to vestibules and doormen. I was surprised by the volume of people who'd ring, sometimes three or four a week.

The Mormons -- gah. The bell rang, saw the two in their white short sleeves and figured rather than having them ring again, I'd tell them to please not come by anymore, not interested. The door stuck as I was opening and when I tugged harder it came open and whacked me on the temple. It hurt like hell. I yelled OW! and held my hand to my head. They looked momentarily baffled and launched right into their shill. I have never slammed a door harder in my life.

It took me that to realize I'm not obligated to open the door to anyone and only do if I'm expecting people or delivery.

I first read the title as "Jehovah's Witnesses on My Property: Did I Overeat?"

I opened this thread expecting to read about someone overreacting but you didn’t. It makes it’s creepier than usual because they were earthy for your eyes in your driveway like predators

I wouldn't worry about it OP, you did what you did, they were wrong with what they did, but they won't ever see it that way. They think they are doing the lords work.

When I moved into this house JW came by, I simply told them I wasn't interested and to please not come again. They told me to have a good day and have never returned. I doubt they will ever bother you again.

They won't be praying for your soul because they do not believe in the immortality of the soul.

Yes there are places for 144,000 to be taken to heaven after finishing the human journey.

The rest of the faithful will live forever in human form on a newly cleansed earth after the Final Battle between God and the Devil.

It doesn't really matter that so many people think they know so much about the religion, but are misinformed.

Usually if you ask them NOT to come back, they make a note in their records and your home won't be visited again.

My grandparents were members and I listened to them and read some of their books when I was in school.

R43/R70, you really are such an imbecile.

I thought this story was going to end with you whipping your dick out. Like a kind of gay superhero.

r70 Hahaha. I think you need to get out of your room sometime. This online stuff makes you paranoid. I'm well known on several sites. Posters from those forums know me here. Go out and get some fresh air.

r93 I get this over and over from this guy. He thinks I'm Greg and DeFacto. I've seen you post. But I have no clue who's DeFacto.

What's the deal with this guy? Did someone piss up his ass or something?

The best way to get rid of them is to say you're an apostate, which for them represents someone who was in the faith and then left it. They will literally turn their back on you and walk away.

I think you UNDERREACTED, op! I would've given them the Crawford chop. Never trust a Jehovah's witness. They think differently, they act differently.

Too bad you can't vomit pea soup in their faces on command, OP.

You did the right thing, they were out of bounds, not you. My ex was an ex-Witness. They made him quit high school to go door to door and be brainwashed. Then his own family shunned him when he came out as gay. It's a sickening cult, as are most, if not all religions.

I normally say EST to these, but I think this was handled well. Why the fuck did they go on OPs property? Did THEIR god give them the divine right? What in the hell!

[quote] I get this over and over from this guy. He thinks I'm Greg and DeFacto. I've seen you post. But I have no clue who's DeFacto. What's the deal with this guy? Did someone piss up his ass or something?

Hello, Platonic Caveman/R96,

R43/R70 is a troll with mental illness.

Just ignore him if you can. He haunts this place saying ridiculous things, just looking for attention.

No one here likes him or pays him any attention.

F/F him and move on.

Waiting for you to arrive home is creepy. Using the word “visit” seems extra presumptuous. Parking in your driveway is BEYOND THE PALE.

You under reacted. .

OP, you did fine in this instance, though with the stroke dreams and everything, you might consider meditation or Ativan. Jesus, relax a little.

I work in a public library, and these young missionaries come and sit in the library. I guess they are coming in to take a break and use our Wi-Fi and air conditioning. The girls are these wan, mousy things who never smile and just sit in the corner and stare at their phones. The boys are much more attractive and friendly-ish. They do pay for guest passes and use the public computers. They don’t approach any of our users with their Mormon crap. They have occasionally asked if they can help us with anything, but we just tell them no thank you. I have never seen any of them look at any books; they probably think we have too many ungodly literature.

It's funny how all of you geniuses berate those two cows in Congress and then there's more Jewish Space Laser stories in this thread than what MTG et al have said in the last several years.

Oh my heck!

A large group of Jehovah's Witnesses invaded my neighborhood this morning. I only answered my door when I heard a knock because I had just had my gutters cleaned and leaves removed and thought it might be related to that. As soon as I opened the door and saw who it was I wanted to slam it but somehow I just couldn't be rude to these poor deluded people right off the bat.

The woman who was doing the talking asked me if I'd ever wondered why things were so bad in the world today and I told her I don't discuss religion with people I don't know. Then she reached into a bag and said she'd give me some literature. I told her I wasn't interested and she put it back. I guess she could tell she was just wasting her time so she and her group thanked me and left.

I simply cannot believe they attract any suckers this way.

R105 Mormon boys are living saints. They're always helpful, pleasant, and usually very casual about their mission from God.

I was once in a bike accident (hit and run in the rain), and although the driver sped away, two Mormon missionaries witnessed the crash, gave me bandages, and waited with me until the cops came to take everyone's statements. They never once asked me to join their church, and I never once asked them to join me for a threesome.

[QUOTE]Yes there are places for 144,000 to be taken to heaven after finishing the human journey.

I never knew this about JW. It's bad enough to be trapped in a cult, but that it's very nature makes the path to spirituality a (cutthroat?) competition is beyond the pale. I occasionally get letters addressed in blocky handwriting with an address but no institutional affiliation. The blocky writing is typical of Japanese. I Googled the address and it's a Kingdom Hall. There was also a Brazilian KH in town.

I've read that JW and Mormons have stepped up recruiting more ethnic minorities and overseas because they can't convert whites. The Mormons are particularly active in the Pacific Islands and sponsor people to immigrate to the U.S. They lived crammed into communal houses and work minimum wage jobs. But they still gotta tithe.

Despite all the money the Mormons roll in, they're cheap as fuck with their missionaries. Bicycles for on-the-job transportation? Fine. But when the weather is bad, why not give them cab fare? I'd see them on Foster Ave in Chicago pedaling away in sleet!!!

"I never knew this about JW. It's bad enough to be trapped in a cult, but that it's very nature makes the path to spirituality a (cutthroat?) competition is beyond the pale." You've probably never heard this because that isn't taught by them. What a bunch of dumb fuckers on here, and they all are convinced they know what they are talking about

I can't stand these people. I don't go around trying to impose my bullshit onto people unsolicited - I think it's very rude that they do.

My city for many years now has had pairs of Jehovah's Witnesses standing in pairs all over with a stand of literature. They are always well-dressed and give me Stepford Wives vibes. I wish they would be banned. They are spiritual beggars so why are other beggars banned but not them?

You appear to be new here and have Jehovah's Witnesses on Google alerts. (your only posts are here and, weirdly, one on the Cilla Black thread and you don't know how to format)

If you are visiting on their behalf or wish to defend their beliefs, why don't you correct us by telling us what they believe? Disabuse us dumb fuckers of our notions, please.

R113 is for r111.

[quote]You appear to be new here and have Jehovah's Witnesses on Google alerts. (your only posts are here and, weirdly, one on the Cilla Black thread and you don't know how to format)

with respect, that isn't how it works. You don't get shown everyone's posts on here, only posts in threads you've also posted in or follow.

You were right to explain why you want them gone, otherwise it's just yet another rejection - a reaction to which they must be quite accustomed.

I sense you got a little stroppy with them. I would just have explained, in a near whisper, that "all religion is foolish, and not least anti-gay religions. Now fuck on off my property and don't think about coming back or sending any of your associates around here."

And give them a sinister little wave.

[quote] The girls are these wan, mousy things who never smile

The church would never allow young sluts dressed like Taylor Swift or big butted gals emulating a Kardashian. Ugly girls are closer to the Lord.

R113 - Try reading R106. The main point is that the people here making their clever comments are absolutely no different than the foam-at-the-mouth antisemites they also hate. A variation on what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

BTW, I've been commenting on this board for years on assorted topics.

[QUOTE]why don't you correct us by telling us what they believe?

Predictably, you neglected to answer this. Do you want you to take a stab? Why are you any more believable than people you call dumb fuckers?

Can you imagine gay people going door to door trying to make people gay?

I thought that was part of the “Gay Agenda”, r120.

Senior Lesbian is my kinda gal.

R115, if you use Ignoredar you can indeed see a poster’s activity on threads you are not following.

[quote][R115], if you use Ignoredar you can indeed see a poster’s activity on threads you are not following.

Sometimes, but not always, r123. You often can't even see all of their posts on threads you've both posted in.

There isn't much of a rhyme or reason that I can tell.

I once told JW visitors that I wasn't interested. They never came back.

[quote]OP: Am I the asshole?

IMO, yes. There's no need to be that defensive/offensive. There's entirely civil ways to convey that you're not interested in what they're selling, while at the same time making it clear that there's no wiggle room to your point of view.

I'm an antitheist, but I'm still polite to the godbotherers.

[quote]R96/PC: But I have no clue who's DeFacto.

DeFacto is a far right troll with an amazing number of socks. Since I've been here, I've observed his comings and goings in different guises, and seen dozens of his socks either redlined or outright disappeared. I don't recall any interactions with him, unless I clashed with him without realizing (or caring) who he was. He's known for practicing 'forum sliding' by bumping large numbers of older threads, in order to drive some subject unflattering to the right deeper into the DL thread queue.

He's researchable. Other deathless trolls here would include the Seacow ('He Whose Name Cannot Be Posted'), Davida, and Anscher.

R120

And in Florida they are darn sure going to make sure that will never happen. There will be Nothing that looks like gay recruitment in anyway in Florida . (Recruitment or promoting as defined by the state of Florida)

No spreading the gay in Florida my friend,

Just like no spreading the JW in some random guys driveway

r126 Okay, thanks. But this guy who keeps following me around, claiming I'm him, is a bit of a douchebag as well. How about Greg? Douchebag doesn't like him either.

Also, you know me from you know where, and I oppose gay marriage and this nonbinary gender nonsense, but I'm not right wing by any stretch. I'm a syndical anarchist.

[quote] How about Greg?

PlatonicCaveman, what would you like to know?

Get off of my lawn!

[quote]Can you imagine gay people going door to door trying to make people gay?

Where do I sign up?

I'd do it if I thought it would work!

I had an aunt who’d invite them in and then preach her view of the gospel back to them. After a few visits they stopped coming around. Me? I have a sign on my door that says no politics, no religion, no solicitation - ring the doorbell at your own peril. It actually helps. We see people turn around at the steps on our Ring camera all the time.

R133 Ha!

My Greek Orthodox mom would do the same thing, preach the actual real gospel to them, and how Jehovah's Witnesses were heretics for not believing Christ was the son of God. She knew I was agnostic but didn't give me any heat because I didn't preach to her.

If they happen to catch me (which is rare) I just tell them I'm an atheist, and I don't even give them time to answer. I just close the door in their faces.

[quote] PlatonicCaveman, what would you like to know?

r129 Why does that paranoid anonymous douchebag think you're this DeFacto character?

But the bottom line is, he's one of these sad message loons who thinks anyone he doesn't like is a sock of somebody else.

[quote] My Greek Orthodox mom would do the same thing, preach the actual real gospel to them, and how Jehovah's Witnesses were heretics for not believing Christ was the son of God. She knew I was agnostic but didn't give me any heat because I didn't preach to her.

r134 I was raised Greek Orthodox but I am now an atheist. However, in Christian theology, the Jehovah's Witnesses are much closer to the original Bible teaching than the mainstream churches.

First, the JW's do believe Christ is the son of god. But they reject the loony trinity dogma which says a father can be his own son. For that common sense logic, I have a certain amount of respect for the JW's.

I discovered that the whores on East Colfax were using my back parking space while I was gone to service their tricks. I thought it was funny until huge piles of lipstick-covered tissues started to pile up against the fence like horror tumbleweeds.

R137 - interesting you say that. My aunt was Greek Catholic. She’d argue the trinity dogma by saying you can have three in one. Her explanation? A child represents three in one - the father, mother and the child themselves. It made sense to her 🤷🏻‍♂️ But yeah, I grew up Greek Orthodox as well. Thankfully my parents were too lazy to drag us to church.

You could have offered them some delicious cod and prunes. In my experience, it has the same effect as telling them to fuck off.

Shit. That warn't nothin, OP.

I have to celebrate my birthday again? Do I stay 35 forever? Free cookies and bug juice?

r139 My parents never took us to church either. Lol.

That's the odd thing though, as a kid I always thought Christ was a distinct separate entity from God the Father. I was shocked when I was older and learned about the trinity. It made no sense to me.

My best friend since childhood is JW. I know the ins-n-outs of their faith better than most, having attended many memorials and meetings over the years. I am not at all religious, but I attended these functions to better understand why someone as near and dear to me chose to become heavily involved in this faith.

I had always thought of my best friend as someone highly intelligent and worldly. My opinion has changed somewhat. I think what drove this person to become a Witness is the fact that important things were missing from his life. Having this cult (and I do believe it is a cult) filled the empty spaces in his life. Growing up without parents (lots of time spent in an orphanage after Mom died and dad wasn't capable of raising 4 kids), moving from place to place to place, having no rules, etc. Now he 'belongs' and enjoys being fully involved. He also truly believes he is helping others by sharing what JWs refer to as "The Truth".

Those of you complaining that you are harrassed by JWs coming uninvited to the door ... I get that, and I hate it too. If you are being pestered by JW all you should need to do to make it stop is TELL them not to come back. If you do this they will put you on their No Call list and you should never be bothered again. If you are, and you are pissed off, call the local Kingdom Hall (JW 'church') and let them know you are being harassed. There are some over-zealous Witnesses. Doing this will put an end to them ever darkening your door again. Now, for the good news. In many areas the JWs have decided a better way to connect with people is to set up a greeting stand/table, like maybe in a parking lot, in a mall, in the park, what ever, and have the public come to them. I see this more and more and believe it is the best way to talk to people that are interested in learning more. They have a great success rate so far and that is good all around, wouldn't you agree?

As for them being pushy, assholes, or whacko cultists, for the most part you'd be incorrect. These are often some of the nicest people you will ever get to know. They are wonderful to do business with because they tend to be extremely honest and take great pride in their professions. I love my best friend... always have, always will. We purposely avoid discussing religion. If you are lucky enough to work alongside or hire a JW for a position, please give these people a chance to prove their worthiness. I believe you'll be pleasantly surprised. Just avoid the topic of religion and everything will be great.

r144 This is my experience as well. Yes, I have a great Jehovah's Witness friend who actually worked for me. He was one of the best most honest employees I've ever had.

I think there's something a bit wrong with our society that we become enraged and hostile over a mere knock on the door. I just tell them I'm not interested and they politely leave. The OP created much ado about nothing.

As for pairs of cute blond Mormon boys - I tell them I want to fuck them in the ass and they leave. 🤣

[quote]R128/PC: But this guy who keeps following me around, claiming I'm him, is a bit of a douchebag as well. How about Greg? Douchebag doesn't like him either.

Two possibilities: It's a sock of one of the troll cohorts, attempting to muddy the waters by suggesting sock relationships where there aren't any. (Last week, some asshole was starting to try to suggest that 𝐼 was Greg02116.) Second, they might simply be bewildered by all the socking here at the DL, and they're just sadly mistaken.

[quote]Also, you know me from you know where, and I oppose gay marriage and this nonbinary gender nonsense, but I'm not right wing by any stretch.

I would classify you as right wing for your opposition to gay marriage and to the trans, both issues which are firmly astroturfed by the far right, and cannot be separated from it. Also, for your apparent need to interpret the bible along right wing conservative lines (i.e. the bible condemns homosexuality; the bible's explanation of its own origins, as well as traditional authorial attributions, are correct, in terms of 'by whom' and 'when'). Across the past year, a new feature has developed in that you've inexplicably taken the part of Putin against Ukraine, which to me is the equivalent of siding with Hitler against the countries he invaded and took over. That's definitely right wing. It makes no sense to me; there's got to be something uniquely personal of which I'm just not aware that's informing your taking this position.

[quote]I'm a syndical anarchist.

Hmm. Sometime within the past year you were describing yourself as a Marxist. What changed?

Anarcho-syndicalism seems to be an outgrowth of abstruse 20th century European politics; what would attract you, an American, to it? It's also a form of libertarianism, and where it precisely falls on the left-right spectrum is rather vague. Whether anarcho-syndicalism is left or right seems to have been a moot point, since in practical terms it proved to be useful in destabilizing the left as a form of opposition to the right; fascist takeovers seem to have always flourished in its wake.

[quote]R144: As for them being pushy, assholes, or whacko cultists, for the most part you'd be incorrect. These are often some of the nicest people you will ever get to know.

They're human, and share the same foibles as society in the large. They are not more moral, but only appear to be. The Watchtower Organization is secretive, insular and extremely controlling, and greatly resembles other cultic religious groups (the Catholics, the LDS, etc.) in their tendency to conceal abuse, sexual and otherwise, in an effort to protect the church at the expense of wronged individual members.

r146 I'm not opposed to trans. I like them fine. I just don't believe there are 100 genders. I don't like the wacko excess. But I support the right of transpeople to live as they choose and I will call them either he or she as they prefer. But I will not call them it!

As for gay marriage, the whole concept was invented by Andrew Sullivan, a conservative gay Republican. The purpose was to domesticate gay males in the wake of AIDS, and make us conform to heteronormative lifestyles. Sorry, but it's conservative to support monogamy and sexual exclusivity over sexual freedom. Gay marriage is a regressive concept.

As for the Bible, I believe "gay Christian" is an oxymoron. I have real contempt for such people. Leviticus clearly sentences homosexuals to death. Every version of the Bible I've ever read says the sin of Sodom was homosexuality. PD, why are you trying to sanitize the Bible? It's homophobic bullcrap. You actually deny that the Bible is homophobic?

I truly believe syndical anarchism would be the best system. It eliminates government and puts the workers in direct control, something communism has never done. It also allows the profit incentive to encourage invention.

However, there is not much chance that corporations will allow syndical anarchism to flourish.

I've said before, I love my toys and I would hate to live under communism. However, as the best system to organize the world so as to benefit the majority and not the 1% of hoarders? Marx gave us a plan, and in the long run a Marxist system is the most logical and practical.

I consider them the scam Medicare supplement telemarketers of religion--no matter how often I tell them I think they're phony, they persist--and not in a good way.

It’s 2023

Why on earth would anyone be nice to someone that someone you did not know knocked on their door?

That was the kind of thing that has gone out of style. Mean and snark is in nice is out.

Wait until you see that 2025 is going to be like. It’s going to be even better.

My (Baptist) grandmother used to live across the street from some JWs. I found their occasional "My sect is more correct than your sect" debates fascinating as a child. Especially when my grandmother would get into the controversial "144,000" topic.

[quote]R148/PC: As for gay marriage, the whole concept was invented by Andrew Sullivan, a conservative gay Republican. The purpose was to domesticate gay males in the wake of AIDS, and make us conform to heteronormative lifestyles. Sorry, but it's conservative to support monogamy and sexual exclusivity over sexual freedom. Gay marriage is a regressive concept.

I have no idea where you got that notion, but it's bullshit. The idea of gay marriages has long antedated Andrew Sullivan. They're ancient. (see link below).

Christianity did not invent marriage. It doesn't own it, and has no business trying to regulate who can and cannot marry.

Gay marriage may not be for you. It isn't for me, either. But you want to rob others of their choices. It's not conservative to support the idea of people living their own lives. By opposing gay marriage, you're making common cause with conservative Christians who want to prohibit homosexuals and their rights.

As I once told Mutha, back at the you-know-where: Lots of people don't like broccoli. I support your right to refuse to eat it if you so choose. But when you lobby to remove it from everyone else's plates, you're being a fascist.

[quote]R148/PC: As for the Bible, I believe "gay Christian" is an oxymoron. I have real contempt for such people.

I have real contempt for gay fascists.

[quote]Leviticus clearly sentences homosexuals to death.

No, it does not. The word 'homosexual' does not occur there.

[quote]Every version of the Bible I've ever read says the sin of Sodom was homosexuality.

I've no idea to which versions you're appealing, but all the versions I know have this to say:

"Now this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed, and complacent; they did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them, as you have seen (Ezekiel 16:49-50).

'Sins' and 'abominations' are not interchangeable concepts, but come from two entirely different religious paradigms. In the Jewish testament, "sins" were offenses for which one could simply make a sin offering to make it go away. Note that the passages which speak of 'abomination' do not use the term 'sin' at all. 'Abomination' (Hebrew 'tō-w-‘ê-ḇāh') referred to a ritual or ceremonial infraction or taboo (typically used of idolatry, but also of breaking the dietary restrictions - Deut.14:3), pertaining to one's membership in the community; one's standing as an observant Jew. 'Abomination' was characterized as being something characteristically committed by the 𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 (i.e. gentiles, cf. Lev.18:24-29). Matters of ritual impurity were handled in various ways, depending on their severity. Some, like menstruation or handling a dead body, required a period of sequestration ('seven days,' or 'until evening,' respectively). Those characterized as 'abomination' - idolatry, blasphemy, dishonor of family or elders, violation of the dietary laws, breaking the Sabbath, etc. - mandated death; being "cut off from your people" was a euphemism for execution.

Christianity was totally different. Christians often completely misunderstand what they read in the Jewish Testament, coming at it as they do with Christian concepts of sin and the way it's expiated in Christianity (contrition, confession, penance, asking Christ for forgiveness). The majority of offenses characterized as 'abomination' typically do not rise to the level of what Christians would characterize as a sin (eating pork, wearing mixed fabrics, etc.). But when they read Jewish texts calling for the death penalty for such offenses, they conflate it with the Christian concept of sin (cf. Romans 6:23).

[quote]PD, why are you trying to sanitize the Bible? It's homophobic bullcrap. You actually deny that the Bible is homophobic?

I'm simply offering the facts. The bible does not discuss "homosexuality," since both the word and the concept of sexual orientation were only coined in the 19th century. They are anachronistic for the bible. But in the wake of WWII, there had developed a dawning awareness of gays as a social movement. Evangelicals lost their minds, and the more visible gays became, the more they wanted a bible that would more expressly condemn them. So in 1946, the new edition of the RSV became the first bible to include the word, dishonestly foisted onto the text.

Mid-20th-century evangelicals were not the first to tamper with the wording of the bible in order to condemn homosexuals. Expositors from the Middle Ages introduced words like "sodomite" into the texts ."Sodomite" isn't even a biblical word, but rather a term dishonestly introduced into the 1611 KJV by its translators, attempting to link the word 𝑞ā-ḏêš (literally 'holy one' [male]) in passages like Deuteronomy 23:17 and 1 Kings 14:24, with the story of Sodom in Genesis 19. There's no textual basis for doing so.

Pointing any of that out does not "sanitize" the bible; it's still a collection of atavistic ideas from the late Iron Age/early Common Era which no one today has any business making the basis of their morality.

R148/PC, I notice you avoided the issue of Putin and Ukraine altogether.

[quote]R143/PC: My parents never took us to church either. Lol.

Somebody sure did. How else did you develop such dogmatic opinions about what the bible supposedly says?

[quote]. In many areas the JWs have decided a better way to connect with people is to set up a greeting stand/table, like maybe in a parking lot, in a mall, in the park, what ever, and have the public come to them. I see this more and more and believe it is the best way to talk to people that are interested in learning more. They have a great success rate so far and that is good all around, wouldn't you agree?

I don't agree. My city has tons of that going on. 1 - they don't pay for their pitches and should especially since homeless/beggar types are not allowed. Even Scientology has a permanent store. JWs should be made to at minimum pay to have a store to do that. 2 - JWs have many, many negative beliefs that are a drag on society and the economy. They are not a net benefit. They are a net negative.

“They are a net negative”

Well then they are welcome to a very very large club, There are many segments of US society, where some large % of Americans , think is a net negative to the country.

In some states they even pass laws targeting these alleged net negative groups.

[quote]“They are a net negative” Well then they are welcome to a very very large club, There are many segments of US society, where some large % of Americans , think is a net negative to the country. In some states they even pass laws targeting these alleged net negative groups.

You mean like gay people? The people JWs are against? But you have not given a real reason why homeless/beggar types aren't allowed but JWs are.

R158

Hey I am just pointing out the obvious. You find net negative people. The govt of Florida funds net negative people.

I don’t make the news I am only reporting the obvious. Lots of groups in the US are seen as net negative by some other groups.

R159 You're not making much sense. Explain why it's OK for homeless/panhandlers to be moved on but not JWs?

R159

I am not sure that in my entire life I have ever made a post about homeless panhandlers being moved on. I have also never made a post in my life about JWs not being moved on. In fact I have no public opinion on this matter at all. I am glad that you do.

I am just pointing out the obvious that some groups , not just JWs, are seen as net negative in US society just as you have pointed out about the JWs.

Is Platonic Caveman gay? S/he/it is against gay marriage.

[quote]R162: Is Platonic Caveman gay? S/he/it is against gay marriage.

𝑯𝒆 explains his position succinctly at R148. He and I have been arguing the issue for more than fifteen years.