Why are the Israelis releasing more Palestinian hostages for every Israeli hostage that Hamas is releasing?

Because Hamas would never agree to that ratio. Remember that them killing all the hostages was very much an option not that long ago. In fact, some of us just assumed they were all dead already. The one with the hostages has the upper hand where these exchanges are concerned.

Because the Israelis are racist.

- BBC

According to one "hostage negotiator" it means Israel doesn't value Palestinian lives.

1 Jewish child = 3 women who tried to kill Jews.

Because Israel had/has more hostages.

It was Sky News, not the BBC. And fuck op for repeating the stupid question.

Muslim lives are expendable to other muslims when it comes to spreading islam. This is why hamas provoked Israel so horrifically. Hamas didn't and doesn't give a shit how many gazans are killed by Israel's expected and justified retaliation. The only thing muslims respect is violence.

I don’t understand why they didn’t negotiate to realize all the hostages - why just some? I would have bombed Gaza off the map until they released all the hostages.

Because Israel's just going to kill them all when they go back to Gaza anyway.

[quote]I don’t understand why they didn’t negotiate to realize all the hostages - why just some? I would have bombed Gaza off the map until they released all the hostages.

Hamas want to terrorise Israel as much as possible. Earlier this week it was announced one of the hostages had died - she was then released yesterday.

There were severely wounded hostages taken and there's been no confirmation as to whether they survived. Naama Levy was the woman dragged out of the back of the truck by her hair in Gaza, the back of her trousers soaked in blood. There's been no confirmation she is still alive.

R7, there are other factors at play. Israel is not in a position to ignore how poorly the bombing campaign is playing in the U.S. It's going to need more weapons and more money, and the U.S. might impose conditions on their use. Hamas, of course, wants to extend the pause in the fighting for as long as possible.

[quote]Hamas want to terrorise Israel as much as possible

And Hamas have "delayed" this evening's hostage exchange because they claim Israel broke conditions of the truce.

I knew hamas would reneg on their deal.

Apparently one of the terms of the hostage exchange agreement was that Israel would not shoot at people traveling on the road from northern Gaza to southern Gaza. There was a report that two people were, in fact, killed recently. No one knows if that actually broke the terms of the agreement, but Hamas may want to move a few things into southern Gaza in the next few days and would like to make sure that the IDF backs off.

Maybe because Israel is a colonial power that randomly scoops up dozens or hundreds of the indigenous people whenever it wants to, so holds vast numbers of hostages itself?

R6 is probably a right-wing gun nut who accuses Muslims of loving violence while being violent himself

What a fucking stupid question. Israel is willing to do a lopsided deal because they know that Hamas will eventually EXECUTE their captives, once they know they hold no further value to them. Israel will continue to house, feed, clothe, and give medical care to their Palestinian prisoners no matter what. They may keep them arguably in harsh conditions, but they won't KILL them. They're a liberal democratic state - a poorly led and run one, at times, but they have basic rule of LAW in place in their own territory.

It’s a relief to not be responsible for hostages.

Israel also didn't fucking go into Gaza/WB and grab/kidnap their prisoners at random chance, right out of their beds, like Hamas did, to hold them for bargaining value. They arrested them, then imprisoned them for crimes committed. There were trials, in many cases.

Now, one can argue that the charges can be "trumped up", or the courts and judgments perhaps biased due to ethnic/racial prejudice. That's a real debate. But there's NO debate that Hamas grabbed their hostages with no other intent than to either bargain with them, or kill them all.

Because they are negotiating for more aid like food and water for Northern Gaza. Because people are livings with no housing. Because people have worms crawling in their wounds from lack of sanitation.

Egypt and Qatar have put pressure on Hamas and hostage release back on, so it seems

R20, yes, Haaretz is reporting that..

And another 7 international hostages. Hopefully the woman who gave birth in captivity and her baby.

In 2011, Hamas got Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to release more than 1,000 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for a single captive Israeli soldier, Gilad Schalit.

So 3 for 1 is a massive improvement.

I came to post what r23 did. Israel can sell it to their people with the message is that one Israeli life is more valuable than a Palestinian.

[quote] Israel has a history of agreeing to lopsided exchanges. In 2011, Hamas got Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to release more than 1,000 Palestinian prisoners in exchange for a single captive Israeli soldier, Gilad Schalit.

R14, Are you serious??

Before 1948 there were "indigenous" Jews, and they were CALLED "Palestinian Jews"

That "Palestinian" today means to most only "Palestinian Arabs" is a linguistic, historical, and cultural travesty.

3 minutes to midnight in Gaza/Israel and Hamas hand over the hostages.

OMG Emily Hand has been released. She was initially believed to have been killed.

Her father has been campaigning in Britain and Ireland and was subject to the most appalling questioning from journalists. And one Irish hotel cancelled his booking finding out he had Israeli citizenship.

I'm so happy for Emily and her dad. That interview he did early on had me in tears.

From the Irish Prime Minister

[quote]This is a day of enormous joy and relief for Emily Hand and her family. An innocent child who was lost has now been found and returned, and we breathe a massive sigh of relief. Our prayers have been answered.

It's the same "thoughts and prayers" sentiment as politicians who oppose gun control after a mass shooting.

The child was not "lost" and now "found", she was grabbed and kidnapped from her home by terrorist who murdered her family members and neighbors. I mean, the double-speak here.

The Irish PM needs to be ousted now.

This released hostage is welcome to rest and recover at my place.

R30, it’s a reference—however maladroit or inappropriate—to Christian scripture. Loss, or being lost, is seen as something very scary; being “found” means being saved or rescued by God.

R27 What kind of appalling questioning?

[quote] [R30], it’s a reference—however maladroit or inappropriate—to Christian scripture. Loss, or being lost, is seen as something very scary; being “found” means being saved or rescued by God.

Yes, it’s incredibly inappropriate.

It was amazing to see the Irish media commentariat coming out to defend a Prime Minister they don’t support because Israel and Jews criticised it.

But then this is a country where catholicism runs through everyone’s veins, a country who offered condolences to Germany when Hitler ‘died’.

Yes, well, Hitler was fighting the English so being pro-German was okay to some, R35. (I'm being sarcastic here.)

It's horribly messed up, as is Ireland seeing the Palestinian cause as similar to its own. It isn't - at all.

R36 That's true, the Irish were at least never reduced to the condition of a stateless people preventing from travelling around our own country by English-only roads and settlements. And Belfast was never carpet bombed from the air, and poison gas wasn't released on the streets of Dublin in 1916. Oh, and no-one proposed a mass population transfer to the middle of a desert either.

The French, German and UK governments have actually made moves to ban the Palestinian flag and ban expressions of solidarity with Palestinian self-determination: but sure, let's argue over every dot and comma put out by Leo Varadkar. Absurd.

[quote]The French, German and UK governments have actually made moves to ban the Palestinian flag and ban expressions of solidarity with Palestinian self-determination

This isn’t a fabricated claim, the poster can provide evidence of these planned bans.

R38 Why yes I can, my weirdly robotic friend!

R37 blames the English for the thousands of babies kidnapped, trafficked and murdered by the Irish state through the Magdalene laundries. The Irish state couldn’t possibly be so vindictive and cruel as to oversee it themselves.

Better that than explain why a posh ‘non religious’ Prime Minister user a New Testament text to issue a statement about a Jewish girl being lost and found, a Jewish girl who had been kidnapped from her murdered step mother and freed after a ransom was paid.

Also

R40 In fairness at least he didn't quote a Kylie song like he normally does.

So, waving a Palestinian flag might be an act of terrorism? I beg to differ. Who’s being terrorized now? Yes, Hamas were the terrorists on October 7 th, and it was unforgivable, but when 14 thousand people die and are left to die because basic life supplies like food and water are cut off, and thousands more in Gaza will die in the next month from illness created by lack of sanitation and basic humanitarian needs, who is that terrorist? That would be Israel and the U.S.

Indeed, R44. Many Western governments have massively overreached, and are now having to backtrack as the scale of their publics' support for Palestinian freedom and self-determination becomes apparent. Ireland is much more in tune with the global public mood, and especially with the global South.

I agree r44. We MUST insist on nuance. The US must be held to the highest humanitarian rights, we must fight for that, no matter who our enemy is. Equality and justice FOR FUCKING ALL. Do not bend on this, it is for the greater good. And I support Israel btw. But I also support the full rights of Palestinians too. It’s a complex situation, with complex solutions. Do not bend on protecting human rights. And guess what? If fucking Arabs want the US treatment of Palestinians called out, then they need to be called out and challenged on gay rights in real-time. They can’t have it both ways.

This is an opportunity to make progress on gay rights in the Middle East if we fight for all human rights — all means ALL.

[quote] That interview he did early on had me in tears.

I found that interview deeply weird and uncomfortable R28. I wonder what his daughter will think when she inevitably watches it. It seems that the released hostages have been treated well for the duration of being held (obviously being held as hostages notwithstanding), his wishing that she was dead, and saying that was the best possible result is just such a bizarre thing to say about your own child.

R47 He's been inculcated with settler racism and settler ideology so comprehensively that he wished his daughter dead rather than imagine her in the hands of the people he has been taught to view as subhuman. That was very clear from the interview - but of course given the circumstances it won't be said out loud.

R4 You mean criminals. Fixed it.

R14 Clue: Jews are native to the area. Zionism is decolonization at its literal definition. The indigenous people are returning to their homeland. Arabs colonized the Middle East, and Zionism is the decolonization of said land. I suggest you read more into the history of the land as your current collection of thought is so incorrect and is actually laughable that you feel confident enough to comment on this. It's clear you have no grasp of the history and it's clear you don't read on the subject, only parrot what you've seen online.

People are now praising Hamas kidnappers for their kindness to children whose parents and siblings they killed. The only shocker is that this is not surprising in the least,

R44 Is it normal for a government that receives BILLIONS in aid, well-funded by Qatar, the US, UN, etc. to rely on another country for water, fuel, Internet, etc? Or might that mean that those billions haven't gone to, you know, it's people?

[quote] People are now praising Hamas kidnappers for their kindness to children whose parents and siblings they killed. The only shocker is that this is not surprising in the least,

I’m not praising them. I’m saying the reality of the conditions under which hostages (like Emily hand) were kept were clearly vastly different from what a lot of people presupposed.

Because Hamas clearly would not try to manipulate the useful idiots around the world. Hostages have already said they were not allowed to shower, but were given new clothes on the day of their release. One child was forced to watch video of Oct. 7. Others were forced to write thank you letters to their captors.

Of course, the coverage of the released “Israeli hostages” is even more cynical. One did interviews with casts on both hands, despite Red Cross videos showing him using them to open doors on the day of his release. The descriptions of the women who have been detained for years will break your heart, at least until you see CCTV of them viciously stabbing Israelis.

And if you think “settler ideology” is brainwashing Israelis? Try “Tomorrow’s Pioneers,” a lovely Hamas show for children. It was taken off the air not because Farfour the Mouse encouraged children to throw rocks at Jews, but because he was too much like Mickey Mouse.

R52 Israel isn't relinquishing control of the sources of the water, dimwit. Also, you might have heard something about a blockade, it's been going on for quite some time.

R55 And that changes what I said? Where are the billions?

On 9 October 2023, Israel imposed a "total blockade" of the Gaza Strip, blocking the entry of food, water, medicine, fuel and electricity. The blockade came in response to the beginning of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war and attacks in Israel by Hamas militants.

The blockade began after Hamas murdered, raped, and kidnapped Israeli citizens including the elderly and children. I’m spelling that out in plain and simple language for you. Of course they blocked it. Hamas started a war. Did you expect Israel to continue to provide utilities? To let Hamas continue to use resources to attack them? Reality may not be pleasant but the truth actually resides there. Visit it sometime.

Yeah R55, You don’t want Hamas to continue their attacks by providing utilities to the Palestinians …, If Israel let food and drinking water enter into Gaza, the Palestinians would have used the water for a giant water balloon as a weapon or perhaps a food fight ,maybe overcooked flatbread hurled at the IDF.

[quote]I found that interview deeply weird and uncomfortable [R28]. I wonder what his daughter will think when she inevitably watches it. It seems that the released hostages have been treated well for the duration of being held (obviously being held as hostages notwithstanding), his wishing that she was dead, and saying that was the best possible result is just such a bizarre thing to say about your own child.

When Thomas Hand gave that interview he knew the full extent of what Hamas did to children - the torture, the rape, the mutilation. The thought that your child is alive but living an eternal hell is not a comfort. Of course you can judge a grieving man who has lived an unbearable chapter in his life. His ex wife who had raised Emily following Emily's mother's death was murdered on October 7th.

Emily thought she had been captive for an entire year and can only whisper. We know children were shown videos of the Hamas murders and threatened with guns if they cried.

[quote][R47] He's been inculcated with settler racism and settler ideology so comprehensively that he wished his daughter dead rather than imagine her in the hands of the people he has been taught to view as subhuman. That was very clear from the interview - but of course given the circumstances it won't be said out loud.

Remember that Concerned European is both a virulent anti semite and an anti Muslim racist who thinks brown people don't have agency so can't be held accountable for the rape, torture, mutilation and mass murder of Jews they committed. Ireland's finest.

[quote]So, waving a Palestinian flag might be an act of terrorism? I beg to differ. Who’s being terrorized now? Yes, Hamas were the terrorists on October 7 th, and it was unforgivable, but when 14 thousand people die and are left to die because basic life supplies like food and water are cut off, and thousands more in Gaza will die in the next month from illness created by lack of sanitation and basic humanitarian needs, who is that terrorist? That would be Israel and the U.S.

[quote]I agree [R44]. We MUST insist on nuance. The US must be held to the highest humanitarian rights, we must fight for that, no matter who our enemy is. Equality and justice FOR FUCKING ALL. Do not bend on this, it is for the greater good. And I support Israel btw. But I also support the full rights of Palestinians too. It’s a complex situation, with complex solutions. Do not bend on protecting human rights. And guess what? If fucking Arabs want the US treatment of Palestinians called out, then they need to be called out and challenged on gay rights in real-time. They can’t have it both ways. This is an opportunity to make progress on gay rights in the Middle East if we fight for all human rights — all means ALL.

As the Guardian article made clear, waving a Palestinian wouldn't be made a criminal offence in the UK. But waving a Palestinian flag outside a synagogue for example could be.

Germany has very strict laws on antisemitism and some of people attending Palestinian rallies are there because they are anti Israel and anti Jewish - maybe you're relaxed about people carrying Nazi esque placards in European cities but I'm not.

As for this

[quote]Indeed, [R44]. Many Western governments have massively overreached, and are now having to backtrack as the scale of their publics' support for Palestinian freedom and self-determination becomes apparent. Ireland is much more in tune with the global public mood, and especially with the global South.

I thought English nationalists overdid it with exceptionalism.

[quote] When Thomas Hand gave that interview he knew the full extent of what Hamas did to children - the torture, the rape, the mutilation.

Did he? Do you know him personally in the way you’re speaking for him? Or was he just going off what he’d been told….which ultimately turned out to be incorrect. Is there evidence Hamas operate by torture and rape of children?

[quote] Emily thought she had been captive for an entire year and can only whisper. We know children were shown videos of the Hamas murders and threatened with guns if they cried.

As terrible as this all is, it’s a far cry from physical torture, sexual abuse and murder that most of you pro Israel types were insisting for the last few weeks that was happening wholesale to all of the hostages (incl children).

[quote] Remember that Concerned European is both a virulent anti semite and an anti Muslim racist who thinks brown people don't have agency so can't be held accountable for the rape, torture, mutilation and mass murder of Jews they committed. Ireland's finest.

I happen to disagree and find CE to be one of the more balanced and rational commenters on this site. Makes astute arguments and can approach problems dispassionately but rigorously.

For instance none (or hardly any) of the pro israel posters on here can even acknowledge for a second that the suffering of Palestinians is even 1) caused by Israel or 2) now in far greater figures than that suffered by Israel.

Out of interest, what do you think this little girls’ reaction will be once she sees the interview where her father says “and they told me she was dead and I said ‘Yes….YES!’”?

Nothing says ‘progressive movement’ like protesting a funeral.

There’s another group who used to attend funerals with protest signs. Something about God Hates something or other.

[quote]. It seems that the released hostages have been treated well for the duration of being held (obviously being held as hostages notwithstanding)

Aside from the weight loss from not having enough food, aside from the released hostages who were admitted to the hospital after having been released, right?

[quote]Hamas terrorists forced the children held in captivity to watch videos of the atrocities they carried out inside Israel on October 7, the aunt of Eitan Yahalomi, 12, told French TV following his release on Monday night.

more at link

OP is quite clumsy with English language and civics. Israel is exchanging Palestinian prisoners, not "hostages".

[quote]Did he? Do you know him personally in the way you’re speaking for him? Or was he just going off what he’d been told….which ultimately turned out to be incorrect. Is there evidence Hamas operate by torture and rape of children?

Dipshit, they murdered hundreds of them just a few weeks ago, in Israel. Streaming most of it, live. The bodies have been buried (those that could yet be identified). You need more evidence?

Hamas are a terrorist group that abide by a doctrine of terror: attack, murder, rape and kidnapping. Emily Hand's father rightfully feared she was being tortured while held in Gaza.

R60 is the Hamas troll who repeatedly asks for evidence of things Hamas filmed and shared.

Absolute human vermin, so no surprise he is a fan of Concerned European.

^^^^ oh look, another one of my stalkers.

Well, fortunately so far it appears that the released hostages, fortunately, were not subjected to the torture and gang rape that so many online commenters took to be inevitable. Probably it might be worth some of you thinking to yourself about why you were so invested in that being the outcome. On Twitter the frustration is almost palpable.

[quote]Well, fortunately so far it appears that the released hostages, fortunately, were not subjected to the torture and gang rape that so many online commenters took to be inevitable. Probably it might be worth some of you thinking to yourself about why you were so invested in that being the outcome. On Twitter the frustration is almost palpable.

Let's wait to see if they release Naama Levy, the teenager dragged out the back of the jeep by her hair, the back of her trousers sodden with blood, soaked in blood and then forced in the back seat of the jeep.

They kept a 12 year old boy in solitary confinement, forced him to watch videos of the murders and threatened him with a gun when he cried. The children released have lost 10-15% of their body weight. More than half of the captured children had parents murdered. When the hostages were released they had no idea where they were going and some feared they were being executed.

But "credit to Hamas" for not live streaming them having their limbs hacked off, like their relatives did.

You are a sick Nazi fuck.

R68 Why did you put 'credit to Hamas' in quotation marks? Are you trying to give the impression you're actually quoting someone rather than those being your own words?

Israeli TV is quoting the families of the hostages as saying that they were treated well: an inconvenient fact for the Israeli government's PR teams and its many enthusiasts abroad.

And the Hamas apologist is back at R69.

Many of the hostages haven't spoken about their treatment because their family members are still being held and they fear they will be punished if they make public what happened.

THEY ARE BEING HELD HOSTAGE, STARVED IN TUNNELS.

[quote] Aside from the weight loss from not having enough food

It seems the rations were initially good, until the food supply generally in Gaza was depleted by the Israeli embargo (see link below). So it wasn’t necessarily enforced starving rather than a general lack of food available, that every single person, man woman and child, was facing in Gaza.

From the article;

[quote] They were given tea in the morning and evening, and the children were given sweets. But the menu changed when “the economic situation was not good, and people were hungry.”

[quote] Dipshit, they murdered hundreds of them just a few weeks ago, in Israel. Streaming most of it, live. The bodies have been buried (those that could yet be identified). You need more evidence?

You said that he knew of “murder, rape and mutilation”. There isn’t clear context that those would happen to hostages based on what you’ve said…..there’s no documented instance of rape of children from Oct 7th, is there? I’m just challenging what you’ve said btw, I didn’t force you to make those claims. There’s also not a line of precedence from what is an ‘attack’ situation to a ‘hostage’ situation.

Are any of you going to acknowledge that your certainty over the past few weeks that the hostages were mostly dead, suffered sexual abuse, or physical mutilation…..that you were just wrong?

What a shame these kids didn’t get the full kidnapping experience.

[quote] Well, fortunately so far it appears that the released hostages, fortunately, were not subjected to the torture and gang rape that so many online commenters took to be inevitable. Probably it might be worth some of you thinking to yourself about why you were so invested in that being the outcome. On Twitter the frustration is almost palpable.

Also this times a million….theres a real tone of disappointment from some of you that there isn’t evidence that the hostages suffered more than they did…and insisting that they were mostly dead before the release proved that they weren’t, was a bizarre way to bolster your arguments.

Fingers crossed for the release of all hostages, a majority of the Palestinian ‘prisoners’ from Israeli prisons, and an immediate and permanent stop to Israel’s bombing campaign in Gaza.

I'm surprised that the hostages I've seen look clean. I expected them to be a mess.

R74 they were given fresh clothes and allowed to wash for the camera. They were also told they had to smile and wave even though they didn't know they were being led to the Red Cross.

One of the free Thai hostages has said they were beaten with electrical cables and that the Israeli hostages were treated worse.

[quote] They were also told they had to smile and wave even though they didn't know they were being led to the Red Cross.

R75 link? And this is for all the hostages? If so, link?

R57 Are you really that ignorant? Did someone let you out of the basement? If they let food and water in, you don’t think they’d be unable to smuggle in weapons? Like they haven’t before?

Don't worry OP, Israel has been kidnapping and arresting far more Palestinian hostages from the West Bank during this time than the hostages they've traded back

Of course R78 tries to make a comparison to a 3 year old girl kidnapped from her murdered parents and a 16 year old throwing an explosive device at Israeli forces or trying to stab Jews in the street,

Israeli has no business in the West Bank. The "settlements" are fucking appalling.

[quote]You said that he knew of “murder, rape and mutilation”. There isn’t clear context that those would happen to hostages based on what you’ve said…..there’s no documented instance of rape of children from Oct 7th, is there?

Heh - there's documented rape of many ADULTS from Oct 7th, and brutal killings. But hey, you want them to be seen as ethical psychopaths, who at least draw the line at age 18 for their rape targets! They wouldn't do that to the children! How dare you insinuate that (even though it's a fair leap of thought)....we don't yet know the fully documented extent of all the atrocities from Oct 7th, because Israel is actually STILL identifying victims and trying to locate the missing.

And while I despise Hamas and all who support them, I fully agree with r80. And have for many years.

[quote].theres a real tone of disappointment from some of you that there isn’t evidence that the hostages suffered more than they did…

Oh, no, I'm quite pleased . . . that only one 10-month-old child is being held hostage. Those motherfuckers kidnapped an infant, and you want to give them brownie points, you fucking lunatic.

Well, I already thought UNWRA schools sucked, so . . .

[quote]One of the hostages, recently released from Gaza, revealed on Wednesday that he was held for nearly 50 days in an attic by a UNRWA teacher.

The story was publicized on X by Channel 13 journalist Almog Boker.

The hostage also stated that the teacher who held him captive was a father of 10 children. Additionally, the hostage had barely been provided food or medical attention, and was locked away by the teacher.

more at link

R81 OK then, so tell me, what should we in the outside world do to stop expansion of the settlements?

Well we can continue to protest away, and pressure governments to assist a diplomatic resolution. Larger countries, such as the US and UK, give a lot of aid to Israel in many forms, and can bring more pressure to bear.

In the end it's the Israeli people who need to do the most - such as voting out the Likud party and hardliners like Bibi. Many are very much against further WB expansion. It costs large amounts of money; they also know if it continues, they'll be the target of new attacks, such as Oct 7th. The collective toll that takes - emotionally, financially - is enormous. Never mind the reputational hit they take on the world stage for the way their govt handles/treats the Palestinian population there.

At some point the benefit of a creation of an independent WB, not occupied by Israel, has to outweigh the negatives. Hopefully that time has arrived.

r81, above ^^

R29 I'm Irish and Varadkar is a spin doctor. He or his speech writer probably thought it "cool" to use a line from Amazing Grace. This is a man who wrote on Prime Minister's headed notepaper a letter to Kylie Minogue asking to meet with her after a concert. I'm sure he sees Hamas for the thugs and murderers they are but his judgement leaves ALOT to be desired.

[quote] Well we can continue to protest away, and pressure governments to assist a diplomatic resolution.

R85 How exactly should we do this? Right now pro-Palestinian protest marches (made up of tens of thousands of ordinary people) are routinely smeared as anti-semitic and pro-Hamas by governments, in the media and on social media. Countries across Europe, as I noted above, are bringing in measures to ban expressions of solidarity including marches or the display of Palestinian flags. In the US, students who have signed open letters are being doxxed and threatened with inclusion on an employment blacklist, pro-Palestinian academics are having invited talks cancelled, while public figures like Melissa Barrera and Susan Sarandon are losing jobs and representation. Hmm, how about a non-violent campaign of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions? Oh wait, that too gets routinely smeared as anti-semitic, and some countries like the US and UK are bringing in legislation to outlaw boycotts of Israel, for example by local government or public bodies.

If you cannot speak up against a massacre on the scale of what is happening in Gaza right now without facing serious legal or employment consequences, then how exactly are we supposed to mount a campaign to roll back the settlement programme? Especially since this is an extremely well-funded programme which has been at the heart of what Israeli governments of all stripes have been trying to do for the last fifty years, and is clearly a major priority for them.

I appreciate your sentiment and believe you are sincere in your support for a Palestinian state in the West Bank, but I think you are perhaps naive about the extent to which the possibility for this outcome is right now being systematically destroyed by Israel and its supporters in the West, using all the powers of the state.

Israeli "supporters in the West" are calling for a new Palestine state. Stop sharting out nonsense. Biden called for two states recently.

R89 When was the last time Biden called for the removal of the settlements? That's what we're discussing here buddy.

Israel has made a two state solution impossible. And a one state is equally impossible given the mutual hatred's their murderous oppression has cultivated over generations.

They've painted themselves into a corner.

The world won't allow them to ethnically cleanse Gaza and Greater Israel as planned. They've fucked themselves while fucking over the Palestinians.

LOL Concerned European just lies and lies and lies

Students aren't being doxxed or having placements cancelled because they're speaking out about Palestine, it's because they've publicly supported the actions of Hamas and justified the violence. When Ryna Workman was given the opportunity to apologise or withdraw her comments she refused. She was then seen ripping down posters of hostages.

Susan Sarandon didn't get dropped for supporting Palestine it was her comment about Jews "getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country". The other actress was retweeting / resharing vile anti Jewish memes including Holocaust revisionism. Cynthia Nixon hasn't been cancelled for her hunger strike. She's been criticised for refusing to mention Hamas and she's been ridiculed for her sense of self importance but there isn't a targeted campaign against her.

The reason Palestinian rallies have been branded antisemitic is because of the placards with swastikas, the Hitler posters, calls to cleanse the world of Jews, the Hitler was right supporters and their rants. The mass arrests. Germany has strict laws on anti Jewish displays which is why they're looking at their existing laws.

You know this but you were posting about Jews and their cunning mendacious plots long before October 7th. You're a proud antisemite.

Over the last few weeks I understand why my poor dad avoided talking about being Jewish.

The vitriol and hatred that has erupted against Jews is frankly terrifying.

The Jewish sense of entitled victimhood is so fucking annoying.

R92 It is you who are the liar, and your repeated antisemitism smears on me simply prove the point I was making.

I will not work through your entire list but on the point about doxxing and blacklisting, here is a report on the statement issued by Colombia University students which at no point attempts to justify the actions of Hamas, nor seeks to absolve Hamas of responsibility. For this statement, the signatories were followed by a 'doxxing truck' displaying their name and image and allowing them to be targeted for further harassment. Based on your behaviour on this site, you strike me as having a similar mentality to the people behind that truck. Are you compiling your list of names right now?

Aaaargh, Columbia, I hereby Oh Dear myself.

[quote] The reason Palestinian rallies have been branded antisemitic is because of the placards with swastikas, the Hitler posters, calls to cleanse the world of Jews, the Hitler was right supporters and their rants. The mass arrests. Germany has strict laws on anti Jewish displays which is why they're looking at their existing laws.

Pro Palestine rallies are not anti-Semitic. You just need to market them as such so you can justify Israel’s mistreatment and mass murder of Palestinians.

Have a glance at the language used in the clip below, by Zionist Jewish people against non-Zionist Jewish people.

No, r97, I don't need to look at your clip, because nothing Zionist Jews say will refute the allegation that pro-Palestinian rallies are antisemitic. This is just more whataboutery. If you want to refute the allegation, then argue what the Palestinian supporters are or are not saying or doing.

The Israelis have killed 15 Palestinian civilians for every Israeli killed on October 7th. They obviously believe one Jewish life is worth that of several Palestinians.

R98 Le sigh, my point was, antisemitic slurs have been documented at pro Israel rallies, spoken by pro Israel supporters. By your logic this mean that pro Israel rallies are antisemitic too. Pro Palestine rallies are not antisemitic in the 99%+ of ppl that attend, there are always outliers at protests.

"Le sigh." Gosh, thanks for the continuing condescension and whataboutery. I didn't really expect much from you, though.

R101 girl you wouldn’t even watch a 5 second video because you’re too scared it’ll challenge your dumb biased worldview. Expect better from yourself.

I don't need any more whataboutery, r102. You've flooded the zone for weeks now.

R103 you people can’t deal with a challenge, any requests for evidence or proof for the misinformation you spin, or a single iota of critical thinking. You’re so blinkered by indoctrination.

Must say, r92's post was a roundhouse wallop.

The statement at r95 …

[quote]here is a report on the statement issued by Columbia University students which at no point attempts to justify the actions of Hamas, nor seeks to absolve Hamas of responsibility.

… is objectively counterfactual. Both the original Oct 9 open letter by the Columbia student groups and their Nov 5 addendum are clear attempts to justify Hamas's attack as an “unprecedented historic moment” in Palestinian struggle for so-called decolonization.

[quote]you people can’t

What? WTF? "You people"? You have some nerve typing that right after claiming pro-Palestinian protests weren't antisemitic. Wow. Already had you figured out, though.

R106 🙄🙄🙄 you don’t have anything figured out. And that’s the problem. In order to fulfill your anti semitism accusations you have to put words in people’s mouths, focus on extremes within groups and change meanings of what people actually say. “We don’t support Hamas” = Hamas supporter etc etc

Just fyi this self-victimization attitude isn’t getting you any support.

R105, we're referring to two different statements. I was referring to the joint statement from 20 different Palestinian Solidarity groups. You are referring to the Columbia SJP open letter where, nevertheless, you curiously appear to have missed the line in the Nov 5th addendum that 'It should go without saying that we condemn all war crimes, including the targeting of Israeli civilians that occurred on October 7th.'.

Brothers Or and Yagil Yaakov were intentionally burned with motorcycle exhaust pipes so that they could be identified if they managed to escape.

[bold]Anthony Albanese says protest at Melbourne hotel of Israeli hostages’ relatives is ‘beyond contempt’[/bold]

About 20 pro-Palestinian protesters walked into Crowne Plaza lobby with signs and megaphone, causing Israeli delegation to seek refuge in police station

Anthony Albanese says protest at Melbourne hotel of Israeli hostages’ relatives is ‘beyond contempt’ About 20 pro-Palestinian protesters walked into Crowne Plaza lobby with signs and megaphone, causing Israeli delegation to seek refuge in police station

Follow our Australia news live blog for latest updates Get our morning and afternoon news emails,free app or daily news podcast Emily Wind and Daniel Hurst Wed 29 Nov 2023 22.15 EST Anthony Albanese has condemned pro-Palestine protesters who demonstrated in a Melbourne hotel where relatives of Israeli hostages were staying, saying their actions were “beyond contempt”.

The prime minister, who met the family members earlier this week, joined other Australian political figures in denouncing the demonstration, telling parliament: “I’m appalled by the actions of these protesters and I condemn them.”

Family members of the hostages held in Gaza sought protection in a Melbourne police station on Wednesday night when the protesters entered the lobby of their hotel.

more at link

R91 Don’t be ridiculous. The attacks on Israelis made the two state solution impossible until the savages/terrorists in Gaza are removed. What would be wonderful is a peaceful two state solution. Don’t forget, the majority of Palestinians support Hamas. How is a two state proposal going to succeed when one state is dedicated to the destruction of the other?

Don’t forget the majority of Palestinians support Hamas? Did you take a poll?

Netanyahu promised that there would never be a Palestinian state, and right now he is in the middle of destroying any potential for one.

Yeah, it’s totes on Bibi. After Gazans ripped fetuses from their mother’s wombs.

R112 Don’t be lazy. There are multiple polls. Go find them.

A simple answer. Israelis value human lives more than Hamas and will try to save their hostages.

r116 Bullshit. Israel knows it's killing hostages every time they bomb Gaza. You're incredibly gullible if you don't think the men who run Israel are more concerned about advancing their agenda than rescuing hostages.

[quote] [R116] Bullshit. Israel knows it's killing hostages every time they bomb Gaza. You're incredibly gullible if you don't think the men who run Israel are more concerned about advancing their agenda than rescuing hostages.

‘Gullible’.

Israel’s military aim has been a success so far.

Its forced Hamas to free hostages, it’s taken out multiple missile launching sites, depleted Hamas’s stocks and the men they’ve captured have been interrogated for intelligence.

Testimony from the hostages freed is that they were starved, beaten, tortured both physically and psychologically (children burned and forced to watch brutal videos).

If Hamas cared about Palestinian children they would surrender immediately.

R118, it’s unclear what military goals Israel has accomplished so far. Hamas offered to free hostages before the invasion, but Netanyahu refused. Ultimately, the hostage negotiations allowed Hamas time to shift operations and regroup. We don’t know if Hamas’s stock of missiles have been depleted, since they resumed firing after the truce was lifted. The tunnel system seems to be almost entirely intact. Only a few mid-level or high-level Hamas leaders were confirmed to have been killed.

[quote][R118], it’s unclear what military goals Israel has accomplished so far. Hamas offered to free hostages before the invasion, but Netanyahu refused.

If Hamas offered to free hostages AT ANY POINT they could have have just freed them. Issued a statement and let them cross the border back into Israel.

The rest of your post sounds like like you've copied and pasted it from a Hamas website.

R120, that's a good persuasive technique: don't rebut what I say, just accuse me of being a terrorist sympathizer. That will teach me . . . something, I'm sure.

R1119, can you provide a link to this Hamas offer? It doesn’t show up in the mainstream reporting. And what exactly was the deal?

Most of the Palestinian prisoners were kids who hadn't been charged with anything. Israel has been throwing Palestinians in prison cells for years with no charges even before Hamas was in existence. Israel is the only country in the world that tries children in a military rather than civil court. A child can receive 20 years in prison for throwing a stone.

[quote]Most of the Palestinian prisoners were kids who hadn't been charged with anything

Your grasp of the English language is as poor as your maths.

Israeli families of hostages are protesting the bombing of Gaza. They feel like they’ve been let down because more emphasis has been made on wiping out Hamas rather than dealing with hostage deals. It never made sense that the bombing would wipe out Hamas. It’s just an excuse to wipe out the Palestinian population.

R124…What is wrong with that sentence? I don’t get the grammatical error.

[quote]It’s just an excuse to wipe out the Palestinian population

Worst.

Genociders.

Ever.

To the posters here who are against the invasion of Gaza by Israel to root out Hamas: how should have they responded to the Oct 7th massacre? What should have their response have been, from their POV - genuine question, what alternatives are available, either military or diplomatic?

The Russian Israeli hostage managed to escape for 4 days but couldn't make it out of Gaza City and was handed back to Hamas by the ordinary citizens who found him.

The Guardian: "Hostage briefly escaped"

Ordinary citizens handing back escaped hostages to their captors. Citizens who hadn't committed crimes except for being Israeli, who were snatched from their homes in a killing spree. Can someone again tell me that the general Palestinian population isn't "pro-Hamas"?

A female Israeli hostage was captured on film being moved by her captors following damage to buildings after an air strike. I saw a tweet earlier that said she had been IDd but can't find it now.

The Gazan citizens guarding her are so gentle!

All the hostages being released in this clip seem to be in good health and spirits, and also seem to have an amiable relationship with their captors.

The hostages were told to act like that for the cameras. Many had friend or family who were still being held in Gaza. Have Americans become this gullible?

R133 they’re very, verrrry good actors in that case.

Did these captors themselves say that they were forced to act like that for the cameras? Any source by chance?

R128, Israel invaded Gaza without first trying to get back as many hostages as possible and without having a plan that the U.S. agreed with. Those were both mistakes. I know Israel likes to think it can do everything by itself, but every country needs allies. If you act by yourself, it’s easy to be demonized.

R 128 …No need to kill 15k people in exchange for killing 1.5 k. No need to wipe out people’s homes ,infrastructure starve them to death. There are other ways. There was a hostage versus prisoner exchange the other day during the pause in fighting. There were more hostages returned to Israel during that roughly seven day time frame… So tell me….How many hostages have been released since the IDF started up again?

R132 WTF? They look like they are saying goodbye to their tour guide...it doesn't seem like acting to me

Yes, r137, the people of Gaza treat the abductees so well.

Did you eat a brain tumor for breakfast?

[quote]Video: Horrific footage showing Palestinian “civilians” savagely kicking apart the dead body of a Jewish elder kidnapped from Israel into Gaza by Hamas terrorists on October 7th, 2023.

[quote] Your grasp of the English language is as poor as your maths.

r124 It's mathematics, moron.

The headline of the article "Freed Palestinians Were Mostly Young"

240 prisoners released, 107 of which were under 18.

Which means 133 prisoners were 18 or over. 133 is a greater number than 107.

So the statement "Most of the Palestinian prisoners were kids" is correct depending on your interpretation of the words "most" and "kids".

R137, they made the kids watch videos of the attack. A lot of the kids they decided to kidnap and hold hostage can barely talk.

US now saying on record the truce/ceasefire broke down was because Hamas wouldn't release the younger female hostages because they have been sexually assaulted and they don't want the women talking.

But the Hamas troll will be along shortly to ask WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE HAMAS RAPED WOMEN

R142 have you read the list of released hostages?

Includes;

Doron Katz Asher, 34 Maya Regev, 21 Noga Weiss, 17 Sharon Kunio, 34 Karina Engel, 18 Sahar Kalderon, 16 Mia Lemberg, 17 Shani Goren, 29 Ilana Gritzewsky, 30 Aisha Alziadana, 17 Mia Schem, 21

This list doesn’t include the Thai hostages that have been freed (I didn’t go through the names).

[quote] So far 105 hostages have been released by Hamas over seven days of truce, primarily women and children.

[quote] US now saying on record the truce/ceasefire broke down was because Hamas wouldn't release the younger female hostages because they have been sexually assaulted and they don't want the women talking.

This is also misleading. The guy in your link is basically “trust me bro”ing his way to this conclusion. “I think that they probably did it” is not a sufficient standard of evidence. He also acknowledges that the US has done no independent analysis. Bizarre.

In other news, 90% of the remaining hostages are men, with women AND children making up the remaining 10%. And you’re suggesting that they’re withholding the women hostages?

And here is the Hamas troll spinning for Hamas! So predictable.

These are the remaining female hostages who Hamas have refused to release.

Naama Levy is the third girl in the top row. She is the girl in the video from the morning of October 7th, dragged out of the back of a truck by her hair, hands tied behind her back, the back of her trousers soaked in blood. Why did Hamas break the truce rather than release her and the other women in the photos?

Too bad they cant safely nuke Gaza....enough with these animals.

[quote] Why did Hamas break the truce rather than release her and the other women in the photos?

Israel say Hamas broke the truce, Hamas say Israel broke the truce. Why can't pro israel people ever approach anything from a rational perspective? Negotiations work from both sides. Neither side gets to demand exactly the terms they want and then claim the other side is the one breaking the truce when they don't get exactly what they want.

Israel has murdered hundreds of Palestinian civilians since the ceasefire ended. It's so sad.

R147, it’s probably much worse than we realize. We shouldn’t be supporting this.

The bottom line is that Hamas and other Islamist organizations have no intention of living in peace with non Muslims. Queers for Palestine? More like turkeys for Christmas.

*^Thanksgiving, rather.

Hamas ended the ceasefire October 7, 2023, sending terrorists into Israel to murder hundreds of unarmed Israelis, rape Israeli women, and kidnap men, women and children.

[quote]No need to kill 15k people in exchange for killing 1.5 k.

Where did you get the idea this was an exchange? The goal is to eradicate Hamas. Hamas has vowed more attacks on Israel. Israel cannot let Hamas remain in power on its border.

And if you have some idea that Hamas wants peace, consider this:

[quote]“There will never be peace with the Jews, all we will do is to behead them”

R151 what ceasefire? Israel had killed hundreds of unarmed Palestinian men, children and women already in 2023 prior to Oct. 7th. And kidnapped men, women and children.

[quote] Too bad they cant safely nuke Gaza....enough with these animals.

Just before we skip past it, are any of the pro Israel commenters gonna admonish your little friend @146 who is saying the above?

We routinely see this type of language against Palestinian civilians on here, and wishes for them to be wiped out, much more sadistic and bloodthirsty and genocidal comments than any that are made from any pro Palestinian commenters FYI.

The smiling waving hostages were drugged before being released.

R155, I’d think that if you were going to keep hordes of hostages in tunnels for weeks on end you’d keep them pretty drugged up all the time.

Hamas/Palestinians killed Tanzanian hostage Joshua Mollel, just 21 years old.

Several Israeli hostages confirmed murdered as well

Today three hostages were killed in Gaza by Israeli bombing campaign .

R158 it seems the IDF opened fire on them rather than killing them through bombing after they were “identified as a threat”. Seems unlikely that they would be armed, which leads one to wonder are the IDF shooting unarmed Palestinian civilians indiscriminately after deigning them to be “a threat”.

R158, You’re right it wasn’t a bombing. Sorry about that.

R159, it’s definitely not just this incident. The IDF recently revealed that one-fifth of its fatalities in this war were due to “friendly fire” and other “ accidents.”

R159, this is a war zone, not a confrontation between a cop and an unarmed civilian.

Have you followed military operations? Apparently unarmed people can have explosives, can exhibit dangerous behavior (intentionally or otherwise), they can be caught in a confrontation, or have weapons available that might not be easily seen. It doesn’t mean that soldiers are playing sniper with civilians.

War is terrible, and so are civilian deaths. They are common in modern warfare, especially in urban areas and especially when combatants are disguised as civilians. Friendly fire happens a lot. But it seems like Israelis are being held to a uniquely stringent standard.

[quote] this is a war zone, not a confrontation between a cop and an unarmed civilian.

I don't think this comparison is working for you the way you think it is lol.

[quote] Apparently unarmed people can have explosives, can exhibit dangerous behavior (intentionally or otherwise), they can be caught in a confrontation, or have weapons available that might not be easily seen. It doesn’t mean that soldiers are playing sniper with civilians.

Unarmed people cannot have explosives...that would mean they were armed. What you're talking about is interpretation of apparently unarmed people's behaviours as justification for shooting them. And you seem to be giving the soldiers total leeway. Maybe the IDF have body cam footage to exercise some oversight on their reckless behaviour. They've enough money that this should be available. Somehow I doubt we'll see that.

I'd say that it actually does mean that the IDF are playing sniper with civilians.

[quote] But it seems like Israelis are being held to a uniquely stringent standard.

TF are you talking about, they're being held to zero standards. Look at the amount of children they've killed and tell me they're being held to stringent standards. You've got it upside down.

[quote]Hamas/Palestinians killed Tanzanian hostage Joshua Mollel, just 21 years old.

Hamas murdered him in Israel - the video of the execution is now on social media - and they took his body to Gaza.

A small, slim 21 year old African.