Fellow Travelers Series on Showtime

The only way Matt Bomer’s character can redeem himself is by coming out at the end of the story.

He pushed that kid into old-school conversion therapy without flinching and even pitched the idea to his dad, nothing he does from now until the end of the series can redeem him in my eyes. I have been used and discarded by self-serving gays like him on their way to the top one too many times to have any kind of sympathy for him.

[quote]The external and internal homophobia illustrated in the fifties is gut wrenching. It’s just everywhere all the time. No wonder the characters were warped by it.

It's heartbreaking to watch. They were so damaged and fucked up, and nothing could change that.

It sounds as lame as the Bomer/Cooper scenes in Maestro.

I agree r2!

Ive just binged the first 4 episodes after reading the book. What a fantastic show. It’s a put my phone down I’m so enthralled & for me, it’s actually better than the book, which is rare. I like the changes they’ve made. I didn’t like Hawk in the book much at all. But he’s more nuanced on TV. I believe he loves Tim on TV, not sure if that’s the writing or Matt Bomers really decent performance here. He plays the arrogant but internally tortured closet gay very well. But I think Jonathan Bailey might be even better. I’m quite blown away by how different he is in this to Bridgerton. Hes a talented & goddamn gorgeous man.

Had a flick through the thread, few posts mentioning JB’s boyfriend - who is he?! Have we seen him?

Apostrophe.

[quote] I didn’t like Hawk in the book much at all. But he’s more nuanced on TV. I believe he loves Tim on TV, not sure if that’s the writing or Matt Bomers really decent performance here. He plays the arrogant but internally tortured closet gay very well.

I think that's because of Matt Bomer.

It's obious that "Hawk" the character is supposed to be an arrogant jerk from an entitled rich background, but what Matt does is give the character, heart.

Regardless of his flaws, you can tell that Hawk really does love Tim, and he really tries to be a good person, despite his shortcomings.

I think that comes from Matt Bomer the person, and not Matt Bomer the actor.

Will Matt and Jonny ever be cast as straight leading men after this? Maybe in the more broadminded and artistically advanced UK for Jonny but I don't think we'll ever see Matt play straight again. Which is fine as long as they can attract great gay leading roles.

The fraus are devastated by episode 5. They are so heartbroken by it - they feel sick.

^ Bailey is playing straight in the upcoming Wicked movie

I think JB will be play straight again for sure, not just Wicked. Bridgerton is really popular here, I think that’ll help. For sure more Brits will continue to know him from that & not FT. He’s also posh & white, also helps in British TV/Film. I hope he does kiss more boys on screen though!

Has Matt played straight since White Collar? He seems to have veered very much into gay roles.

Who is the freak on the reddit forum treating Roy Cohn and G. David Schine as a "cute" couple?

British actors who are gay routinely play straight roles. In Britain nobody cares.

Matt has played some straight roles, but in a recent interview, he said he’d like play a gay character from every decade. They are talking about a revival of White Collar, too.

r13 Imagine that, a frau obsessing about the sexless pair, one of whom was self-loathing and the other being a homophobic straight (?) guy using him

^ Is it even a frau? I assumed it was a Log Cabinette gay man but who knows?

Oh a self-loather then, same applies

How fried is her vocal?

Just a little nitpick: Bomer and several other characters are smoking king-sized filtered cigarettes in 1952. The first king-sized filtered cigarette was Winston and it didn't hit the market until 1954.

Wrong. Viceroy was around in '52.

Bomer can play any sexual identity he wants.

r21 Viceroy wasn't a king size, it was a standard 70mm cig, like Lucky Strike and Camel.

They put a lot of work into keeping everything historically authentic, but it’s hard to be perfect.

Isn't this set in 1950?

Can someone explain why Roy had to cut the other army officer out of the photo with Schine?

I'm not sure that actor playing Schine is the right physical type. I think in reality, and also for dramatic purposes, a more corn-fed All-Amercan college boy would have been more interesting as a contrast to Roy (who btw is brilliant).

That wig on Noah Ricketts - WTF? Has this been brought up here yet? I think most of the costume, makeup and hair designs on the series are terrific and authentic but I don't get what happened with Noah's hairstyling. It looks totally anachronistic and also so obviously like a wig.

[quote]Isn't this set in 1950?

The Army-McCarthy hearings took place in April through June of 1954. We probably could have seen a number of different king-size filter-tip cigarettes.

Wasn't there a draft in1954? Wouldn't Skippy have been drafted for the Korean War (1950-53) long before he enlisted? As well as the aimless little gay brother in the newsboy cap?

I believe the most recent straight lead roles played by Matt was in Echoes on Netflix and The Sinner on USA.

[quote]We probably could have seen a number of different king-size filter-tip cigarettes.

But not in 1952, when the series started.

Another rave review with nice photos. Someone said they missed this picture from the last thread.

R33 Thanks for the review link. As the show progresses, the reviews have become increasingly positive. I especially liked their mention of the costumes. I thought it was just me, but I just absolutely loved Hawk’s mother Estelle’s dress too, although I thought it was lavender. This show is just a feast for the eyes.

[quote]That wig on Noah Ricketts - WTF? Has this been brought up here yet?

Yeah, I noticed it in this episode as well, perhaps because they were out in natural sunlight. Such a handsome face and then that hairline, oof.

r34 Estelle's dress was great! Made me want to marry a guy for money, just so I could prance around the manse in a dress like that while puffing cigs and doing fuck all.

Roy Cohn came across like the sleaziest of sleazebags in that bathroom scene when he was right next to Tim's face, great tongue acting by Will Brill. Not at all surprised this same pig gave us Trump.

Out.

Is this an authentic look for a 1950's-era African American cross-dresser?

r37 Gosh, Ricketts is so pretty with his natural hair and some stubble. HOT!

Will Brill the actor playing Cohn is superb, he was chilling in that bathroom scene with Tim, positively reptilian . Whoever did the casting for this is brilliant. Every actor, even in the most minor role is so on point. The actor interrogating Hawk is a great example of nailing a pivotal moment that further illuminates Hawks character and the fanaticism of the culture.

I agree, Frankie’s hairline is distracting.

[quote]Estelle's dress was great! Made me want to marry a guy for money, just so I could prance around the manse in a dress like that while puffing cigs and doing fuck all

Faggot!

[quote]That wig on Noah Ricketts - WTF? Has this been brought up here yet? I think most of the costume, makeup and hair designs on the series are terrific and authentic but I don't get what happened with Noah's hairstyling. It looks totally anachronistic and also so obviously like a wig.

Pretty much everything about that character and that performance seem anachronistic. But I love the series nonetheless.

I'm a horrible person for FFding through the parts with Marcus and his trans/drag queen/whatthefuckever lover. I know, I'm AWFUL. I really just don't give a shit about that sub plot.

There are so few (quality) gay shows around, I just don't understand FF'ing through anything, let alone bragging about it on a gay message board afterwards. But that's just me, I guess.

[quote] I'm a horrible person for FFding through the parts with Marcus and his trans/drag queen/whatthefuckever lover. I know, I'm AWFUL. I really just don't give a shit about that sub plot.

Same here. I don't necessarily feel bad about feeling this way, because the story is just boring. It also feels gratuitous, put there just because...

I actually think that if it was left out completely, it would have no impact on the overall show.

That said, what else could fill up an hour episode if they took out that part of the story?

I find Marcus' story instructive in understanding Hawk's rigidity vis-a-vis his own homosexuality. We see Marcus changing over time and becoming more accepting of both Frankie and of himself as a gay man, a progression Hawk will not allow to happen with himself and Tim. Instead Hawk digs in deeper and marries Lucy. It saddens me.

[quote]I find Marcus' story instructive in understanding Hawk's rigidity vis-a-vis his own homosexuality.

And I still don't fucking care.

That gay bar they all go to is ridiculous. Far too opulent for the time period. Gay bars back then were little hole in the wall shithole places.

[quote]That said, what else could fill up an hour episode if they took out that part of the story?

More buttfucking with Hawk and Skippy.

More of Hawk sucking Tim's cock.

Agree R47 about the drag bar appearing too refined, upscale.

Does anyone else feel like Tim is just a CHUMP?

Hawk has used him, and failed him, and screwed him over so many times, but Tim just keeps going back for more.

It's kind of pathetic, actually.

Can we talk about how the dyke with the blonde buzzcut (totally anomalous to the time period, btw) is completely talentless? And she's the star performer at the ridiculously opulent (for the time period) gay bar.

The Hawk/Skippy stuff is great, but far too many liberties are taken with some other things on this show.

R44 he said he’s a terrible awful person etc. What about his comment is “bragging?”

If you like the secondary storylines, good for you. Glad you enjoy the whole show. Don't fast forward.

It’s not that deep. To each his own.

r51, I think if Tim/Skippy were played by a younger, more callow, actor his constant gullibility for Hawk might be easier to....swallow. Of course, I love Jonny Bailey so I'm more than willing to suspend my disbelief.

Bailey is great in this role. I agree with r54 about having to suspend disbelief a tad, and also in the 1950s scenes when he's supposed to be around early/mid 20s (he looks every day of 35) but it's worth it. Fantastic actor.

I continue to be elated that Nyswaner and Company chose Jonny Bailey. I don’t think I would find the show nearly as compelling if they had chosen, as someone else suggested, the insipid-seeming twit, Froy.

Thanks for the new thread

Thank you for being a fellow traveller.

Agree r51!

R51 I may have a contrarian view, but I don’t see him as a victim. It’s his lack of victim hood that makes him more of a compelling character. The wide eyed innocent and quirky naivety would soon become a bore. Tim is ambitious, manipulative and has quite the willful blindness to things that are contrary to what he wants or inconvenient to his beliefs. He’s quite happy to use the access Hawk affords him and that’s evident when he seduces Hawk to take him to the party. He knows Hawk is “bad for him” but the heart wants what the heart wants and he also knows quite well the risks and dangers to Hawk for coming out. After all, he has a front row seat to how McCarthy and Cohn are destroying the lives of people even suspected of being gay. He knows people are taking their lives, yet he faults Hawk for being a coward. It’s unclear how Tim reconciles his faith and his continued allegiance to McCarthy as long as he does. It seems it’s only when he’s personally threatened by Cohn and McCarthy that he takes action. I’m personally more drawn to anti hero types like Hawk but by making Tim a more multi dimensional character it really elevates the story for me.

I want to tongue Jonny’s hole.

R62 is the kind of erudite comment you just don’t find on other forums.

They said they wanted something different in every sex scene, so rimming is probably coming.

r62 - I bet you're really missing that fucking edit feature right about now Bucko.

[quote] They said they wanted something different in every sex scene, so rimming is probably coming.

Queer as Folk meets The Americans.

Allison Williams was very appealing on Girls, horrendous in the title role of that live NBC telecast of Peter Pan and quite effective in Get Out. This last episode has really begun exposing her fundamental weaknesses as an actress. In very emotional “sad” scenes Williams looks like she’s trying to stifle a laugh. She seems to have no idea what to do with her mouth and eyes to express deep sorrow.

I think we might see Tim fucking Hawk. That comment about being ‘active, always’ seemed very shifty. And I was watching an interview with Matt & Jonny and they said the 70’s was a complete role reversal for their characters. Presumably because Skippy is going to be out, proud, free & Hawk is going to have less power over him as the closeted one. I wonder what happens in the 70’s to drive them apart again until the 80’s? That time period isn’t in the book so no clue!

[quote]I wonder what happens in the 70’s to drive them apart again until the 80’s?

An argument about Follies

r68 wins. End the thread.

R68 is another comment you won’t find on any other website. Only here on DL.

Jeff Conway interviewed Matt for Forbes and is posting clips on Twitter. This one is about why he was attracted to Fellow Travelers.

Anyone else read r71 as Jeff Conaway and..............pause?

Hah. yes, R72. And Bomer likes older men so…

but wouldn't Matt prefer his older men with a pulse R73?

Does Simon Halls still beat Matt Bomer with a bag of oranges?

Now you’re going to pollute this thread with that crap? Couldn’t we just talk about the show?

I really hope Lindsey Graham and Tim Scott are watching this

For me, that was a depressing episode. Too bad the two of them didn't run off together and become lumberjacks or something.

Was anyone else surprised by Senator Smith’s decision, trying to avoid spoilers. It really raised the stakes for how dangerous the times were.

Sen. Smith is based on Lester Hunt, a Dem senator who killed himself after his son was arrested on a "morals charge" - McCarthy and co. had threatened to make his son's arrest public

This show encapsulates how awful the world was for gay people in that time period. Having to be closeted, the fear and paranoia etc. Thank god for Stonewall and the Gay Liberation Movement. If I had been around back in the 50s, as a gay man, I probably would've been committed to a psych hospital.

R80 Thanks. I love how meticulously researched this show is. The impossible choices people faced on such a daily basis had to be soul crushing. That people managed to survive is a testament to the human spirit.

I love that Allison Williams is having such an interesting career post Girls. I took her awkwardness as embarrassment & discomfort trying to be kind to her fundamental rival as he dies. I inferred she knew more than her husband expected. Her character is a politics daughter.

R30 Yeah, I don't get that, either.

I should know this by this point but did the Senator played by Linus Roache represent Wisconsin, as does McCarthy? Not that it really matters, I guess.

I can't imagine what will happen in 4 more episodes! This last one should have been the penultimate episode dramatically speaking.

[quote] I can't imagine what will happen in 4 more episodes! This last one should have been the penultimate episode dramatically speaking.

I feel the same way. This episode definitely seemed like an ending.

It really was quite depressing, like R78 mentioned.

But the one consistent thing is that Skippy the Chump still took back Hawk one more time.

And I'm sorry but I just can't with the drag queen story.

It feels so out of place in this series.

There's no connection to the rest of the characters, and I swear it just feels so gratuitous. Like someone dropped a huge boulder in the middle of a serene pond. It really does feel that intrusive to me.

And again with the bullshit. A black man painting his nails red in public view, in 1950's DC? That is a 2021 thing to do. Not a 1950's thing.

Ugh. I just can't stand that story line.

I have a crush on Michael Taylor, who plays "Leonard Smith."

He's a cutie.

[quote]Too bad the two of them didn't run off together and become lumberjacks or something.

Or move to Wyoming and herd sheep.

Strange that Michael Taylor's Insta doesn't seem to have any photos of him in Fellow Travelers.

I agree r87. I FF through those scenes. I just don't care about the drag queen subplot. It's like the show grinds to a halt. The red nail polish in public was absolutely ridiculous for the time period.

[quote] I can't imagine what will happen in 4 more episodes!

In interviews, Bomer and Bailey said that some of their favorites scenes involved wearing 70's clothing and dancing in clubs from the 70's. which should be part of upcoming episodes.

Michael Taylor, who plays "Leonard Smith." was very moving in the brief back and forth with Hawk .... then entering the hospital....

then isolated to the Mom's right at the funeral.

JB also said some of his favourite scenes were the 4am intimate scenes. They’d be my favourite too if I got to lay in bed with Matt Bomer draped over me.

They’ve both mentioned that they didn’t really choreograph much, rather, they let it play out in real time when the cameras were rolling. Which while obviously how the sex scenes play out is in the writing, they also clearly just led with what felt right to do in the moment with the sex scenes. Which is kinda hot.

Hawk was very unlikeable in the last episode.

R95 you would really have disliked his character in the book. The strength of this series is the emphasis on the emotional connection between Hawk and Tim, and the way Bomer humanizes his character. The book displayed Hawk's self interest and ability to detach, and he did something very bad to Tim, they did not reconnect and he found out about his death (not from AIDS) through a woman both knew. Very glad the story is expanded. This series adaptaton is much more satisfying, and touches on broader themes.

I really hated the way Hawk dealt with the misery of the senator's son, his lack of compassion was staggering. During certain scenes, this one, the polygraph, his father's deathbed the motherlode of anger he carries surfaces and dominates.

Both Bomer & Bailey are acting their asses off! And we get to see them, too!

[quote] Both Bomer & Bailey are acting their asses off!

I hope Bomer doesn’t lose his ass.

A woman friend has been watching because she is a Bomer fan. I don't think she has seen many gay films, her experience is more like the abysmal Uncoupling on Showtime and the usual comedic or tragic gay son suicide tropes. She is loving the acting, the storyline, but especially the development of the main characters' relationship. She was taken aback (in a good way) by the chemistry and passion the leads share. She said she has seen Bomer in "straight" roles and had no idea he could carry a role like this. More than a pretty face.

I think both leads will be nominated for Emmys. Hopefully that will encourage more offerings like this.

r96 At times it seemed to veer beyond lack of compassion and actually enjoying the torment of the family - was there any actual need for him to tell them that it was their son/brother on his knees, for example?

R95 I’m really glad they expanded Hawks character from the source material, where he was much more unlikable. Bomer is doing a tremendous job of layering and providing much needed nuance to Hawk who in less skilled hands would simply be an unredeemable cad. Among other things, Hawk is a very angry man with good reason. Bomer is surprisingly good at switching from coolly detached to outright menacing. His barely concealed rage seems most provoked by threats of humiliation or control. We see it when his interrogator threatens to expose his homosexuality and Hawk icily suggests someone might consider murder rather than suicide as a solution. Then again when his secretary reveals she reported him and mocks Tim’s affection for him and he leans in with you’ll never know just how wonderful I am, so just suffer. And again here with Lenny, who threatens him. Hawk is bound and determined to never be on his knees again before his cruel and humiliating father and a world that devalues him, even if it costs the intimacy he so desires. I love this show.

Episode 6 preview.

Allison: "How dare you bring that man into our lives."

I hated book Hawk to be honest. He had no redeemable features. I was a bit apprehensive about seeing that played out on TV but they’ve made Hawk so much more human, flawed & even quite likeable in small moments. That despite all Hawks flaws & awful behaviour, he truly loves Tim & just cannot let him go. Matt Bomer is knocking it out the park with this character.

Apostrophe

Bomer is a great actor. I’ll never understand the hissing on DL that he can’t act.

For R100

Yes, it was brutal to say that , but perhaps he wanted them to understand the seriousness of the situation since it threatened the father's position and standing - not something that could be brushed aside. I think his lack of compassion was fueled by his anger at the son, for being stupid enough to get caught. Hawk feels he understands how to play the game, and has no patience with those who let themselves be caught out. In another scene when Tim says he isn't as good a liar as Hawk, Hawk tells him you better learn or you wont survive.

I don't think it's so much about Bomer being a bad actor as his handsome face is just so blandly even and lacking in depth and character. If he lets his face age naturally it'll probably help his career.

R103 Totally agree that Bomer is knocking it out of the park. Both he and Bailey are just electric together and turning in exceptional performances in my opinion. I think Bomer’s role is more challenging as much of Hawk’s emotional turmoil is under the surface of the suave, in control mask he wears publicly. He’s so good at showing the complex emotions of regret and yearning haunting Hawk.

Love the names:

Hawk is a predator

Timothy is timid

Frankie is frank

Marcus is a writer

Lucy is? Lucid? Loose? Loser?

R45 If that storyline wasn't there, it would be another gay show about white people and would be extremely boring!

r110 Your racism is showing, turdpocket. And FWIW, this white guy is enjoying Marcus and Frankie's story just fine.

It's not racism to acknowledge the objective fact that black gays obviously had it ten times worse back then, Jesus Christ. What an absolute racist fucking cunt you are. Just get lost, please.

The interaction between the 2 couples is mostly between Hawk & Marcus. Otherwise they seem to be on different tracks and most of the time is devoted to Hawk & Tim. The Marcus & Frankie story is fine, but it just feels like short scenes are inserted here & there.

[quote] The interaction between the 2 couples is mostly between Hawk & Marcus. Otherwise they seem to be on different tracks and most of the time is devoted to Hawk & Tim.

[quote] The Marcus & Frankie story ... just feels like short scenes are inserted here & there.

Exactly.

It's especially ridiculous, because while Hawk and Tim are fighting Roy Cohn, McCarthyism, and a gay witch hunt, Frankie is bitching to Marcus about the color of his manicured nails, while sitting on a park bench drinking coffee.

Um, really?

Tell me that the storyline isn't there just to a) insert black characters into the series, and b) add a trans character.

This is the problem of adding poc/minority/trans characters gratuitously. It just feels forced.

Or perhaps it is just a reflection of the times. The white guys were sitting in hearings at the Capitol and the black guys were sitting on a park bench drinking coffee.

R109, I believe on DL Lucy is usually Jessie, unless Gary talks her out of it

R114 Great way to minimize everything that happened to them up until this point. Shut the fuck up!

All verisimilitude goes out the window when we are meant to believe that Marcus is in love and lust with Frankie, to say nothing of Frankie’s wigs which have rightfully been derided for being so distracting. And don’t get me started on the butch singer in the nightclub. I’m outraged every time we’re meant to think this person existed in the 50’s.

The character of Marcus is compelling (and hot). It’s pairing him with a drag queen in 1953 that feels like 2023 pandering. This is DC. He’s a journalist. Pair him with a law student from Howard FFS. Have the partner develop into a civil rights lawyer in later decades.

Seems like a total cop out to add in 2 black characters and one of them is wearing wigs and nail polish.

I think Matts a really decent actor. Although I do think this is the best he’s done. He’s completely Hawk, I don’t see any Matt when I’m watching him & he’s playing a very troubled character with a lot of nuance.

I don’t mind Frankie & Marcus but I don't think the actors have any chemistry together at all. Their pairing seems very flat & I don’t buy the heat or interest between them. Ultimately, they are there to be the anti- Hawk & Tim. The couple who eventually chose to be together & happy. I agree the wig on Frankie is terrible!

I agree that an ambitious, educated person like Marcus, who wanted to be part of the DC journalistic mainstream, wouldn't have been caught dead with a drag queen. A Howard U grad with career ambitions would've been the logical choice for him.

That whole subplot is so artificial, and an attempt to shoehorn some diversity in the show, as everything has to be diverse now no matter how false it can seem given the larger context of the plot and also the time period.

Apostrophe

I’m not bothered by them expanding the story to make it more representative and inclusive of the that era. The writers have been doing a fantastic job of working in historical facts and context. Apparently, the Cozy Corner and Chicken Hut were based on real DC establishments and the character of Storme was also based on a real person. It’s unrealistic that Marcus and Frankie’s story would carry the same weight and significance as Tim and Hawk. But I do agree, that Frankie seems an odd choice for Marcus. His scenes with Hawk have much more sexual energy and tension, but then again, who’s not attracted to Hawk. It’s totally believable that Hawk and Marcus hooked up.

And Noah Ricketts could easily play a law student or a young teacher in DC dealing with segregation who becomes a professor at Berkeley or some shit in the 1980s. There were plenty of ways they could have gone. Make him a medical student, then a doctor who is treating AIDS patients in SF.

The Frankie character is the only missed opportunity in the show.

Matt as Hawk reminds me of a gay Don Draper.

Wonder if he's hung like Jon Hamm?

[quote]And don’t get me started on the butch singer in the nightclub. I’m outraged every time we’re meant to think this person existed in the 50’s.

And you would be wrong.

Meet Stormé DeLarverie, 1950s drag king performer.

Perhaps the point has been made upthread, but it seems the drag element was added to make gender fluidity part of the discussion. The lesbian couple as well. Having read the book, I feel the additions serve FTs well.

r126 Storme was based in Greenwich Village, not DC. Two totally different worlds.

R118, hate to break it to you, but bunch lesbians and drag queens existed back then

There's nothing new under the sun

[quote] R118, hate to break it to you, but bunch lesbians and drag queens existed back then

But NOT with the visibility and force that this show would have you believe, R129.

NOT in the 1950's honey. These people were underground. WAY underground, and not flaunting their proclivities in public, like this stupid Frankie character.

It's just Woke nonsense, with Hollywood trying to (typically) re-invent history.

No one is denying that these people existed. It's HOW they existed that makes the whole portrayal ring false.

Another example: Marcus peeing on his white co-worker's shoe in the bathroom.

Does it make SJW's in 2023 feel good about themselves that the black man got even with his racist white co-worker? Sure.

But would that truly have been the case in 1950's segregated America? FUCK NO.

Marcus would have been lynched by the white people in that office, and summarily fired.

But the writers would have you believe that black people WERE AS EMPOWERED as they are today.

Guess what? They weren't. SO STOP FUCKING RE-WRITING HISTORY!!!!

Marcus would have been oppressed. Period. End of story. And there would have been no happy ending for him.

I wish for once, these types of "historical" period pieces would tell the truth, instead of trying to make everyone feel good about how race relations were in the segregation-era.

Two good novels set in this period are Advise & Consent by Alan Drury and Washington, D.C. by Gore Vidal.

Nonfiction Secret City by James Kirchick is an excellent history of gay life in Washington over decades from Roosevelt to Reagan.

[quote]bunch lesbians

Pics please.

[quote]NOT in the 1950's honey. These people were underground. WAY underground, and not flaunting their proclivities in public, like this stupid Frankie character.

Exactly. Homosexuality was illegal and thought of as being sick and unnatural. Those of us in the modern world really can't even begin to imagine how oppressive, dangerous and humiliating those times were for gay people. Nobody was out and about being gay in public. It was all very underground and hidden.

There were men going around in drag in public in the 19th century

Yes, homosexuality was considered immoral.....that doesn't mean some brave souls weren't willing to risk condemnation

So true, r134.

[quote]There were men going around in drag in public in the 19th century

But not in Washington DC in broad daylight in the fucking 1950s.

R136, yes, just in broad daylight in 19th century London. When homosexuality was illegal

But this isn't 19th Century London, dear.

JFC are you even American? Do know anything about the culture of Washington DC in the 1950s during the Red Scare? No. You're just trying to justify a glaring historical anachronism.

R138, 19th century London was more homophobic than America in the 50s, dear. And, yes, I'm America n

Gender non-conforming people have always existed. You're the one who is mistaken

^ sorry, "American"

r139 they were not walking around Washington DC in broad daylight in the 1950s.

And 19th Century drag queens in London were not walking around in broad daylight in the city center. Again, it was confined to certain places.

Are we really fucking debating that a black drag queen would be sitting on a park bench in front of the Washington Monument painting his nails in nineteen fucking fifty-three?

REALLY??

Well, he wouldn’t be sitting there for long!

R141, incorrect. Read about Fanny and Stella. They walked around in full drag in broad daylight in 19th century London. Not just painted nails (which you can easily hide by putting your hands in your pockets)

Walked around in full drag in the 19th century

But right-wing DLers find it hard to believe someone would paint their nails (which you can hide in your pockets or with gloves) in the 50s

r144 the British culture of that time was different. And no, there were no drag queens walking around DC in broad daylight. Are you slow?

And being historically accurate does not make one "right wing."

r145 read r130

R146, wearing painted nails is not the same thing as full drag.

You think there were no femmy queens back then? Are you slow?

R147, I have r130 blocked (probably a Republican troll)

r148 a drag queen painting his nails on a public bench in DC in the 50s is quite apocryphal, 2023 mores in a period piece. Are you slow?

No r149 he makes a lot of sense. Here's his post:

[quote]NOT in the 1950's honey. These people were underground. WAY underground, and not flaunting their proclivities in public, like this stupid Frankie character.

[quote]It's just Woke nonsense, with Hollywood trying to (typically) re-invent history.

[quote]No one is denying that these people existed. It's HOW they existed that makes the whole portrayal ring false.

[quote]Another example: Marcus peeing on his white co-worker's shoe in the bathroom.

[quote]Does it make SJW's in 2023 feel good about themselves that the black man got even with his racist white co-worker? Sure.

[quote]But would that truly have been the case in 1950's segregated America? FUCK NO.

[quote]Marcus would have been lynched by the white people in that office, and summarily fired.

[quote]But the writers would have you believe that black people WERE AS EMPOWERED as they are today.

[quote]Guess what? They weren't. SO STOP FUCKING RE-WRITING HISTORY!!!!

[quote]Marcus would have been oppressed. Period. End of story. And there would have been no happy ending for him.

[quote]I wish for once, these types of "historical" period pieces would tell the truth, instead of trying to make everyone feel good about how race relations were in the segregation-era.

R125 I thought I was the only one who recalled Don Draper when I saw him. Just younger and shorter.

R151, yep, the people pretending that gender non-conforming people did not exist are right-wing trolls

R150, are you slow? There have always been people who refused to obey social mores.

r153/r150 yes there have always been gender non-conforming people. The point is that they were not walking around in public and living their everyday lives in the middle of mainstream society in the fucking 1950s. That's a 2023 thing. God, you are dense.

In a world where Marsha P. Johnson threw the first brick at Stonewall, drag queens did indeed paint their nails in public parks.

I’m enjoying the show well enough, but I think they needed to do more to show why Bailey’s character is in love with Bomer’s. It’s such a dysfunctional relationship that it’s hard to tell why he’s so attached that he could never even form a long-term partnership with someone else. I get that Hawk is drawn to Tim’s innocence & idealism and he loves how much Tim worships him, but what does Tim love about Hawk?

Hawk is hot AF and fucks him good. Plus he’s smart and like a daddy.

I get it.

Anyone as sexy and adorable as Tim/Skippy would be pursued by every hot gay man in DC, hell....on the entire Eastern seaboard. He wouldn't need to be solely dependent on unreliable Hawk.

I think it’s part of Skippy’s character - he’s devoutly religious to the point we see him almost become a priest in the next episode. For a long time, Hawk was the only man who ever made him question & who he allowed himself to have despite the turmoil of his religious beliefs. He’s naive and falls head over heels in love with him. Is love rational? Not really, not always. I don’t think it’s that unbelievable, I know plenty of people who have been in relationships with absolute twats who mess them around for months/years but for whatever reason, they keep on going back. Treat them mean, keep them keen and all that. Hawk is extremely attractive & it’s very much implied Skippy likes the dom/sub aspect.

I’m presuming given the whole priesthood thing, Skippy has maybe not been with another man since leaving Hawk & in episode 6, we see him give in to temptation again because Hawk is the only man he’s slept with in years & he’s still wildly attracted too.

[quote]Hawk is hot AF and fucks him good. Plus he’s smart and like a daddy.

It's amazing what getting good and properly fucked by a hot guy with a BIG dick can make you do. All kinds of shit you would never normally do. You can waste a lot of time and make a fool of yourself. But you are totally dickmatized, it's like you're under a spell. I was in two relationships that were like this. Never underestimate the power of a hot guy with a big dick who knows how to fuck you like you've never been fucked before.

Human nature and human sexuality can be so mysterious.

Agree r161.

Tim imprinted on that hot top daddy in the 50s. “Who do you belong to?? Say my name!!”

Easier said than done to let that go. And it seems like Hawk comes and goes throughout the decades - giving Tim just enough hope (and dick) to keep pining for him.

In the book, Tim is a virgin when he first hooks up with Hawk. I think part of the obsession comes from inexperience/naivete

Tim is obsessed with Hawk. There's no other explanation why he would still be with him after Hawk told him he was marrying a woman. That had to be painful to hear.

When it is good with Hawk, it’s very very good, so good it keeps him coming back and wanting more. The sad thing is, if Hawk weren’t so concerned with social acceptance & career advancement, he would probably want more too. In the eighties now with Tim deathly ill, he seems to be regretting not giving more love to him.

The reality is that neither man can be their authentic selves in the era they live without risking personal destruction as well as the destruction of the people they love. Hawk understands this, even as he takes more risks to be with Tim. He’s been wounded in ways Tim hasn’t been, a father who disowned him, a mother who choses security over her son, guilt for abandoning Kenny and his subsequent death. The stakes are too high and the odds are stacked against them. I’m probably in the minority, but I think Hawk loves Tim as much as Tim loves Hawk.

Not alone, R166, I think the last couple of episodes show that Hawk loves Tim, always has, and is feeling deep disillusion and regret at some of the decisions he made earlier in his life.

I agree R166, I think Hawk really falls in love with Tim but knows throughout it can’t last & Tims his ultimate sacrifice in order to survive & live a safe & ‘normal’ life. That was the point of the letter in Ep2 right, he’s saying allowed his feelings. ‘I was taken by your beauty but I was won over by your mind. I know you love me & my feelings for you are deep’.

I know obviously Skippy is going to die of AIDS but I hope he gets a ‘happy’ ending. Hawk is clearly going to pay the price for not letting himself love Tim until it’s too late.

This series has me hooked! Can’t wait for the next episode tonight.

Yeah, me too. I’ve been wondering why Tim is so bitter about Hawk in the eighties.. He seems to have matured and can’t be as naive about the possibility of he and Hawk having an open life together in the fifties McCarthy era. I’m imagining it has to do with Lucy and Hawk most likely having to choose who to hurt least. His having a seizure right after talking with Lucy may have been a bit of a tell.

Excellent episode 6. At first I wasn’t sure I was liking it, but it went in directions I wasn’t expecting, and turned out to be interestingly complex. Allison Williams is terrific, the kid actor playing Hawk’s adolescent son was really good too.

And at least if we have to watch straight sex in this ep, we get to see Matt Bomer’s hot ass pumping away for a while.

Without giving too much away, I got very emotional during the scene at the end between Hawk and his son, a conversation I never got to have with my dad. Hawk’s reaction struck me as obtuse, but then I remembered that this ep is taking place in 1968, a year before Stonewall.

Though gay men had a higher profile in the culture in the late ‘60s than they did in the ‘50s, they were treated as a new scourge, an epidemic, by daring to be more visible, and gay men who were willing to be out to journalists were treated as dangerously sick aberrations. Perhaps that’s why Hawk seems to sweep the whole issue under the carpet.

WTF is up with Paramount+? I'm trying to watch E6 and it keeps getting interrupted with "This video is currently unavailable".

Paramount+ is technically crappy!

Paramount+ is a piece of shit. Terrible streaming platform, full of bugs. It's not just you r172.

R 171 It is possible that Hawk's son was not referring to possibly being gay. Remember he had a Playboy magazine hidden in his drawer. I think the kid may have been referring to emotional issues, like depression. He is sensitive and feels alienated from his family, sometimes gay kids feel that way, sometimes kids with mental health or emotional issues .

Hawk did not immediately ask why when his son said that, which most parents would. There was a lot going on, between Tim's impending legal troubles, his wife's unhappiness , the kid both taking lsd and involved in stealing. We also cant discount the emotional turmoil Tim's reappearance has caused him. The fact that he suggests that Tim stay on in the cabin, in the midst of all this with his family shows that. So he may have responded to his son's statement with an emotional assurance that "we are all going to be okay" as he has done at other times. Partly telling himself that he, his family, Tim would somehow all get through.

In a previous episode Hawk refers to a loss his family has been dealing with for seven years, he is seen speaking to grandchildren and his wife on the phone. Perhaps as an adult the son was a suicide, or died from drug abuse. We shall see.

R171 I felt the emotional weight of the conversation between Hawk and his son also. It was a beautiful moment between the two actors and so poignant. I don’t know that Hawk was obtuse as much as engaging in a degree of denial . He wants to be the father to his son that his own father could not; protective, accepting and loving. And in his desperation for Jackson to be okay he deflects from an opportunity to explore his fears in what seems a rare opportunity for Jackson to connect and reach out to him. We have the benefit of knowing the tragedy awaiting the two which adds to the poignancy. To some extent this dynamic is also playing out with Tim, who Hawk wants to protect and keep safe but is struggling with his own demons. Another great episode with much needed character development, Allison Williams was great.

R172 I couldn’t watch it on my TV, got a black screen but audio. Contacted Paramount customer service who said they were working on the problem. I downloaded the paramount plus app onto my iPad and watched it there.

For some reason this thread just disappeared from my Thread Watcher and clicking the eye icon isn't doing anything for me.

So please forgive this annoying post but maybe It'll get me back onboard.

That scene of them in the dome of the Capitol where Hawk says “I didn’t raise my boy to be a soldier” and Tim says “promise you won’t write,” etc... it must have looked so cheesy on the page and Bomer/Bailey delivered it beautifully. They are truly elevating the writing with their talent and chemistry.

The soundtrack is also lovely.

So Hawk's wife has known all along that he fucks guys.

I can't believe I'm typing these words, but I miss Roy Cohn. Now the show is a family drama (nothing wrong with that, of course).

^ I like the Roy Cohn scenes. The actor playing him is really good

R180 - I think many women did know their husbands weren’t straight back then. But either they married for money & status their husband could give or they truly loved them & just lived in denial. Just all really sad to think about really. How trapped both the men & woman were.

^ Even so, I thought her burning Skippy's letter to Hawk was low. She shouldn't have even opened and read it in the first place.

I’m confused about Lucy. I think Senator Smith knew Hawk was closeted, especially in that scene where he tells him he has no good response for why an eligible bachelor like himself was still single. But he loved him like a son and that’s why he wanted him to marry Lucy, like many people then he probably thought homosexuality was a choice. And if had the love of a good woman, Lucy, that might change him. He thought Lenny could be cured. I think Helen also knew or suspected and she pretty much later is counseling Lucy to accept Hawk’s gay daliances. But in this chapter she seems as if she’s surprised. I mean she burned Tim’s letter, which pissed me off, but’s understandable from her point. I don’t know I’m confused. But this is so freaking sad now, Hawks been watching out for Tim all this time and not knowing how much Tim loves him. This show and we only have two episodes left.

[quote]We only have two episodes left.

I'd love it if it were 22.

A good series comes along and it's too short. I hate that!

I think Jackson may know his father has sex with men and he may also know about his mom’s affairs. He tells Tim, “They lie.” When he tells his mom, “Dad has a man in the cabin,” he asks her, “Do you even care?” In any case, the tension in that household is obvious. Poor kid.

R188 The last scene with him and Hawk made me emotional. I also think Tim was great with Jackson. In another world where Hawk and Tim got married, I could see Tim being a gentle father to their kids.

I know r187! I wish this series had a lot more episodes, it's incredible.

The acting is top notch, but what's really hitting me is the tragedy of these lives. What society did to gay people back then - making them think they were sick, making them self-loathing, self-destructive and fucked up in so many ways. It was so sad and horrible.

They were treated as criminals.

R190 Absolutely. We will never know how bad it was. And the black and brown gays had it worst. Dealing with homophobia and racism at the same time. Horrible times.

Scene with Jackson and Hawk at the end was great. That kid was a strong actor.

Great episode.

Agree that father/son scene was really well done. The young actor has a beautiful face, good casting as Bomer's son.

Raining all day here, so I binged and watched episodes 1-5 again, then six for the first time. Honestly I was so taken by the leads chemistry that I missed some key moments, or didn't give them the gravity called for. Such connection between the men, especially the more tender intimate scenes. I agree with the comment posted previously, that the chemistry and talent of the leads elevates the writing. I think Bomer is doing exceptional work. Can't see how this series doesn't garner multiple Emmy nominations.

R195 Wishing and hoping doesn't always work. But it would be very nice, indeed.

More sex, less politics. That's what we all want.

I'll definitely miss the show when it ends

What R197 said.

This was the best episode so far - really liked the family angle. Tim is still my favorite - he has such a good moral compass in most all of his interactions. Qualities that are rare today. One thing I noticed is that both leads have extremely nice skin - Hawk (Matt) more so than Tim (Jonathan). I know makeup is probably used to mask any flaws, such as they are, but they both have nicer skin than Hawks wife! As noted above, Hawks son was a good actor - quite good looking too. Only 2 episodes left.

Side note - for those who stream via Paramount+ - I noticed another show 'Colin in Accounts' - which I started watching and really like it! Kinda fun and quirky.

It has been bugging me where I’d seen the Roy Cohn actor before—yes, I know I could have Googled him—but just started rewatching The OA on Netflix and bingo! He’s on that, but wildly different. Good actor.

Great episode. I wonder if Jackson winds up being a gay man?

I was wondering if Hawk actually had encounters with the hot young groundskeeper/handyman/whatever, the one who Lucy fired. Would Hawk have been so indiscreet with someone in his own home? I think Lucy was just paranoid and the poor guy got fired for nothing.

I think Jackson having the hidden Playboy was to tell us no, not gay.

I've watched three episodes. Bomer's acting really is good - he even made me suspend disbelief that Bomer could ever be a top. He was slamming on Bailey like he knew what he was doing. Brava!

Does anyone have any idea how the ratings have been so far? There has been a lot of publicity about it, but I wonder how it’s doing.

Before Tim heads off to the Army, we see him delivering the letter to Hawk that Lucy burned. So, did he have a change of heart after making Hawk promise not to write him? Did he think that Hawk moved on with his new life with Lucy like he asked him? What do you think was going through his head when Lucy told him the truth of what she’d done?

Why did Lucy decide to tell him is what I wanna know?! Its like she was telling him that the reason he never came back to you is because of me. Not him. He never knew you still loved him. Like she wanted him to know that Hawk hadn’t necessarily chosen her over him. He just didn’t get that letter.. I found it an odd move from her.

I think she told Tim because she wanted to hurt him. I think she was laying down her marker: he has a family now… our family and I made sure he didn’t know about how you felt.

I'm glad the kid went to see Tim when he was tripping. I was never alone when I did it even if the others were also hallucinating their asses off. It was somehow comforting.

I miss the McCarthyism skullduggery. Not really interested in Hawk's family.

First time I have ever liked Williams in anything. She was OK in a few things though. Still she sometimes speaks words in a too contemporary rich Ivy League girl vocal fry that this character wouldn't have (the vocal fry). Just her natural voice coming through her acting.

She told Tim to hurt him AND to be honest with him. She not exactly a cunt. She is probably counterintuitively respectful of her rival, who is after all a handsome man, with a cock, and she knows very well she can't compete in any way with her husband's need for that. So yeah, she is marking her territory. She also likely assumes the guys have been fucking for years and are STILL fucking, which is not the case. She might be intimidated.

Had some problems telling apart the different time periods, but otherwise another wonderful episode.

Allison's acrylic nails looked so nice, they made my mouth water. She can't smoke convincingly for shit, though. Which, good for her.

Kid actor was extremely well cast – good acting, not at all annoying, and great weirdo vibe coming off him. Hawk being such a distant father that he couldn't even hug him until the very end (in that gorgeous closing shot) was heartbreaking to watch, but also true to the times and his character. Being gay doesn't magically make you a more understanding father, he's still just replicating the patterns he learned from his own father.

Loved the unflinching depiction of just how much religion can fuck you up, especially where sexuality is concerned.

And, um, hello there, Andrew.

Hawk was indeed fucking the handyman and Lucy indeed knew it. Don't be naive, people.

In the book he's definitely fucking the handyman, and it's implied that Lucy knows (or at least guesses)

R211 I suspect on some level Lucy’s known all along about Hawk, just like on some level she knew about Lenny. But like many people who love someone that can’t love them back in the way they want, she settled. Like her mother said, ignore his needs as long as he comes back to her at night and puts family first. I think she could blow off Hawk’s tricks because they meant nothing to him. Tim, on the other hand, was Hawks real love, which he demonstrated by risking everything to try and save him, despite not knowing all those years Tim still loved him.

Hawk don’t like-a da pussy.

Maybe it’s just a product of my life & never having to entertain that option but I just don’t think I could ever stay hard shagging a woman. No matter how much I close my eyes and try pretend. But I guess when it’s for survival, there’s more motivation!

r217 I'm the same. I'm a total Kinsey 6 and I don't think I would be physically capable of having sex with a woman. Some gay guys can do it, of course.

R218, you’re not a Kinsey 6 then.

r219 a Kinsey 6 is exclusively homosexual so yes, I am.

New preview for Ep 7 is out. Lots of Fire Island scenes. Looks great!

White Nights: It’s 1979 and Tim, now a social worker in San Francisco, travels to Fire Island where he suspects Hawk is drinking himself to death after a family tragedy. Hawk takes Tim on a tour of “gay paradise,” indulging in dancing, drugs and unbridled sex until things take a dark turn.

[quote]Tim ... in San Francisco, travels to Fire Island

And DL turns on Tim

R222 😂😂😂

The 'Boom' is scheduled to be on the Tonight show w/Jimmy Fallon on Wednesday. Maybe he'll discuss FT and have some interesting tidbits to share.

Jonathan is a frontrunner to win the Emmy. He could very well be on his way to winning an EGOT. He has a very good chance of winning a Grammy for the Wicked soundtrack, and he's getting Oscar buzz for Wicked. It's a shame that he didn't follow Company to Broadway, because he would have been a shoo-in for a Tony. He'll win a Tony one day.

His career is really taking off and it's going to get even hotter next year.

Matt and Jonny will both be on The View later this week, maybe Thursday?

R224 - I highly doubt it on the 3 minutes of conversation each guest has with Fallon. I’m sure we’ll hear how he & Jonny had each others backs & how vital it is to tell these stories. Which I agree but press gets so repetitive doesn’t it! I really want someone to ask some left field questions!

"Repetitive press," indeed. I didn't miss it at all during the writers/actors strike. (See also: red carpets, photocalls, step and repeats, etc.)

The trailer for episode 7

R229 Thanks. Looks like things are heating up again.

Maybe we will see Hawk bottom at fire island

Lucy is a snoop. She had no business opening mail that wasn't addressed to her.

R232 It wasn’t exactly mail. It was a note slipped under the door to her husband’s apartment by a handsome young soldier. It would be hard to resist the temptation to read it, but she didn’t have to burn it. What would she have done with it, though? Give it to Hawk & say, “Some soldier slipped this under the door to your apartment while I was packing it up?” Awkward…,

R233 The healthier thing would have been to confront him and discuss what she had always suspected and then decide on what to do going forward. But this story revolves around the lies we tell other people and ourselves and unfortunately are forced to tell.

So it's the son dead by episode 7?

Rumor has it he was killed in Vietnam but I have no idea if that's correct.

The son is much too young to have been in Vietnam.

Not if it takes place in '79.

Forget what I said, I don't know how I came up with that year.

I recon Jackson kills himself. He’s clearly a very troubled kid. Obviously the death of a child is utterly utterly devastating but Hawk knowing he had such a bad relationship with him as well is even worse. What does Hawk do in the 70’s to make Tim so angry with him in the 80’s I wonder. Looking at the promo, I wonder if Tim really thinks Hawk will chose him this time after he helps him through his grief. But then Hawk goes back to his family..

Yes I’m guessing Jackson dies of something related to substance abuse and/or mental illness, which is why we saw him dropping acid at 13, acting out and telling his father he thought something was wrong with him.

The Reddit fraus are “not ready” for the (final) 80s episode.

I wonder if Tim just finally finds out in the 80’s about something Hawk did to end their relationship in the 50’s. That would reflect the plot of the book. I really have no idea, though.

What if it's Hawk who gives Tim AIDS during the Fire Island segment?

It might be something like Hawk makes him think they will be together finally after Fire Island and then Tim wakes up to a note or some bullshit saying “I had to go back to my family” etc.

I feel like it can’t be anything too horrific because they want it to still be a “love story.”

I’ve had a harder time connecting to Tim as the series progressed. His idealism and naivety started to feel more immature and rooted in denial. His stubborn refusal to accept the reality of the real world surrounding him and the dangerous consequences of that, seemed adolescent at best or a willful blindness. He knew the dangers of living an openly homosexual life, his boss and sidekick Cohn were destroying people’s lives. People were committing suicide, losing their jobs and families. He had a front row seat to the destruction of his friends Caroline and Mary’s tragic ending. Hawk wasn’t to blame, Joe McCarthy was, yet he continued to admire and work for him. In the last episode he seemed to have matured. I think he related to Jackson so well , because he could see himself in the adolescent struggles he was having in his love for his father. I think his decision to turn himself in was more a selfless act regarding Hawk, leaving him to Lucy and his family. I think whatever transpires in this next episode will have a more realistic look at their relationship. I hope.

I want to be prepared, does Hawk or Tim die?

R246, if you wait long enough, everyone dies. Hawk would be about 100 years old by now since he was a WWII hero.

R245 yes Tim is a type and they do get insufferable past 29, which means after a few idealism/delusion based fuck ups already in their lives. They never learn.

R246 KILL YOURSELF NOW, TROLL.

It would have been nice if they'd showed just a little of Tim's army experience and how it turned him into an anti-war seminarian. But it costs money for all those extras in period uniforms, I guess, leaving us to connect the dots. (Not difficult, but still.)

The show + Matt Bomer + Jonathan Bailey are all nominated for Critics Choice awards in the Limited Series category.

Glad the show is getting some recognition

Also on Washington Post list of 10 Best TV Shows

GQ Hype interview with B & B

GQ interview was great. Bomer and Bailey are fantastic, hope we see more from them. Nyswaner seems like a lot of fun.

Simon Halls must know that Matt and Jonathan had an affair on set.

I thought Emmy nominations for 2023 are for shows that run from June 2022 through May 2023. But I’m hearing Fellow Travelers, Matt and Jonathan are up for consideration. What’s the deal?

“I’d love to play Jessica Fletcher's queer grandson who moves back to Cabot Cove,” Bomer says, referencing Angela Lansbury’s iconic role in Murder, She Wrote. “He's inherited her house and he finds an old journal in her library, and it's a case she never saw and he takes up her mantle.”

And moments before the restaurant speakers suddenly start blaring George Michael’s “Freedom ’90,” Bailey comes in with a killer pitch: “I’m obsessed with the Sacred Band of Thebes, an army of 300 gay lovers in [ancient] Greece. They partnered in pairs, this gay army, and they overthrew a Spartan army… I want to do that as a comedy.”

“Oh hell yes!” Bomer says.

I’m up for an Ancient Greek gay army movie.

Matt said in another interview he’s actually about to have some serious talks about his Murder She Wrote idea. Which is something.

[quote] Bailey comes in with a killer pitch: “I’m obsessed with the Sacred Band of Thebes, an army of 300 gay lovers in ancient Greece. They partnered in pairs, this gay army, and they overthrew a Spartan army… I want to do that as a comedy.”

Jonathan, Meet the Spartans.

r257 Nominations for the 2023 (being held in January 2024) Emmys are already out. The speculation is about the Emmys in 2024.

R256 Oh grow up! They’re very convincing actors, though, aren’t they?

R261 Thanks. I could seriously get behind Matt as Jessica Fletcher’s queer amateur detective grandson.

Unfortunately that R263 requires one to believe someone fucked Jessica Fletcher to produce a child.

I feel certain Jessica got all the dick she wanted.

R255 why wouldn't "we hear more from them"? Are they about to retire? Die?

R266 - I think they mean hear more from them together. I know it doesn’t happen often but I do hope these two do something together again. Their chemistry on screen is really fucking enjoyable!

Our boys are on The View this morning.

They were on Morning Joe earlier today.

They’re so well spoken and handsome. I want to eat them up.

They are wonderful

Oh god. That message Jonny read out from someone whose Dad loved another man for 40 years 😢 Tim & Hawk are real people. Every now & again, it really hits how lucky I am to love freely. To have been able to embrace being gay & to be able to think it’s one of my favourite things about me!

r272 I think about that with each episode I watch. We are so lucky today that we can live openly as gay men. I would have DIED in the 1950s, what a miserable time.

I saw an interesting interview on Showtime with the costume designer Joseph La Corte, who did such a fantastic job. He said back in the fifties gays communicated to each other who they were by coordinating their ties, socks and pocket squares. I had never heard that before. This show is so good on so many levels, the research is meticulous.

Back in the... 80s? the gays and lesbians at the New York Times used to all wear bow ties on Thursday. Well, maybe not ALL of them, but it was like having a secret handshake. (I know this from a lesbian who still works there, although Bow-Tie Thursday is no more.)

I never watched Murder she wrote, did Jessica have children?

R275 Now that I’m thinking about it, I bet there were lots of secret codes and gestures used by gays and lesbians throughout history to signal community.

I didn’t watch a lot of Murder She Wrote, but I think Jessica had a husband. He might have died sometime during the show..

Poor Lucy -- a gay husband, a gay brother. And maybe the son?

The son has Playboys stashed away, r278, not Playgirls.

[quote]Oh grow up! They’re very convincing actors, though, aren’t they?

Mmmhumm. It's no different than the Jessica Chastain / Oscar Issac arm caressing thing on the red carpet. They're doing press. They're selling the show and themselves for award nominations and technically they haven't even been that bad. It must be nice for them to work with each other as two, successful, openly gay actors who are on a show that is getting good reviews and will boost their careers.

R279, I had Playboys stashed away, too. Because I had nosy parents, and wanted to throw a little red herring at that age. ;)

I've seen the first three episodes plus episode 7.

I mean, it's fine, but so one-note in tone, and entirely humorless.

Jonathan Bailey is the best actor, but it's hard to tell as everyone else is so grim and calculated. It's a bit of a throwback to the "Virtuous Gay Victim" genre where all gay people are tortured and miserable yet heroic, but that is the basic tale here. Matt Bomer is fine, but his face is like a "handsome mask" which as pretty as it is isn't that expressive. He's saying the lines fine, but his character is again so knowing and one-note. He's hard to root for.

Of course one of the main leads of color MUST BE A BLACK DRAQ QUEEN SISSY! What an exhausting trope. I saw Noah J. Ricketts in that incredible cringe gay play "To My Girls" where his character was appallingly unlikable, but he's really quite good. I went to a screening of episode 7 last night after which all the leads did a Q&A and stayed for the dinner reception afterward. I'm happy to say all were in good spirits, stayed the whole time and mingled taking selfies with the crowd. I respect actors who know how to do press events and Jelani Alladin was especially available and very gracious.

The very poor aging jobs by hair and makeup leaves the characters looking 45 at the most when in the 80s scenes they should be 60ish years old. What was up with that?

Yes, in the 1980s Hawk would've been in his late 50s/early 60s and he looks like he's in his 40s.

I don’t know what kind of rough 40 somethings you hang around, but he looks much older than his 40s in the 80s scenes.

He easily looks in his 60s with that make up on.

Sure, R284, and you're 65 but look 24.

Bomer is 46. Granted he’s perfect, but what do you think 40 somethings look like? You think they are covered in age spots with gray hair and have skin like the makeup in that show?

I’m 43 and look 43.

Episode 7 was very depressing.

[quote] Yes, in the 1980s Hawk would've been in his late 50s/early 60s and he looks like he's in his 40s.

Which is what ever DLer of a certain age says about themselves. Therefore, hair and makeup got it right...

If they wanted to expand the timeframe of the book to several decades, they should have added more episodes. The 60’s and 80’s episodes just tried to pack too much into one hour. So much was left out that we were left without details about important events like Tim being in the Army & in jail or Jackson’s drug addiction & death or Marcus & Frankie getting to where they are. It was distilled down to one dramatic moment in each decade. I’m afraid the final episode will have to pack too much in to give us a satisfying resolution.

I would have preferred fewer episodes, maybe just 4 total, not more, focusing the entire story in McCarthy era Washington until the very end. It's become too much of a soap opera. I know I'm in the minority here.

Then read the book, r289. That is EXACTLY what it is.

I did read the book and that's thus my informed opinion, r290. It was so much more emotionally powerful.

I prefer the TV show to the book but mostly because I really disliked Hawk in the book. I don’t on TV, his character is much less one dimensional.

Cute.

To miss the visual, and chemistry of Bomer and Bailey would be a waste. I want MORE. I want the missing years filled in. I don't know the end here, I want more of their story, together and apart.

I am wondering what the viewership numbers are. Is it the gays and fan girls or a wider audience?

Lolvanswered my own question.

Parrot Analytics has found that the audience demand for Fellow Travelers is 23.2 times the demand of the average TV series in the United States in the last 30 days.

2.7% of all shows in this market have this level of demand.

I want much more than the TV show as well. For example Bailey eating my ass and fucking me while I'm slobbering on Bomer's meat, staring up into his eyes.

Episode 7 was awesome!

[quote] Lolv answered my own question.

But those were engagement numbers? I didn't find any thing like actual audience numbers in that link.

I searched, too, and could not find anything other than this website that said Fellow Travelers was #1 on Showtime with an estimated audience number of 700,000. I still don't know if this number is really the right metric. The streaming services can be quite sketchy about his stuff.

I’d like to preface this by saying I’m 64 years old. I came out in 1984 in the the middle of the AIDS epidemic and aside from TV movies like An Early Frost and Consenting Adults in the US, there was wasn’t much representation about (the then) modern gay experience or how AIDS was decimating gay men. I really wanted to like this series. I think most of us want to applaud any effort that shines a light on gay life past or present. I didn’t read the book, but unfortunately I think the story and script are bad, the dialogue is terrible and the casting choices (at best) questionable.

was the Seven Story Mountain hardcover referenced prior to the end of Ep.7?

The Fire Island episode was a step down. I liked the bottle blond muscle stud boyfriend. He really looked "of period". It's the late 70s. Lucy is a class act but also a modern woman (though she pretends not to be) who is unfaithful, fucking husbands in her circle of friends. I think by the 70s and sexual liberation she might just tell her daughter a this point that her alcoholic father is a cock sucker. Tim is given a tour of the Fire Island libertinage and acts wide eyed at first, but he lives in fucking late 1970s San Francisco so he has already seen it all. That wide eyed start is just a clumsy entre for the viewers - who might not have seen such lifestyles even in 2023. I wonder how many straight people have made it this far into the series....

Also Tim is quite the prisspot. (On my way out, I'll tell Hawk you are stealing from him.) Blond himbo actually gives Hawk more attention, care and tenderness than Tim has in decades.

R301 I’d be interested in knowing what your specific complaints are. Ron Nyswanner who created the show was also a young man during the AIDS epidemic. Is it the unhealthy romantic relationship that bothers you? The inclusion of a gay man who chose to marry and hide his sexuality? The promiscuity? The politics?

Boy, this was a tough episode, quite moving. Bailey and Bomer continue to be superb.. Matt was excellent as a wrecked and broken Hawk. I wonder if Hawk ever received Tim’s letter of condolence for Jackson or if Lucy was still blocking his communication.

The letter was in Hawk's secret locked drawer, in his desk. The daughter finds it and reads it. Of course Hawk got it. That's why he has been reaching out to Tim. Did you not watch the whole episode?

Do you think the MOTHER put the letter there? It's the MOTHER's locked drawer? no.

R301 - what about the show seems off to you specifically (genuinely interested)?

I wanted to love it, but Episode 7 did feel like a tiny step down. Agree with r303. And the juxtaposition of SF/Harvey Milk and the antics in fire island seemed rushed and thrown together. The dialogue also felt off between Hawk and Tim. Maybe that was all intentional. I don’t know. Hawk sitting by the bed at the end of the episode was very sad. Bomer is really delivering. His eyes are so expressive.

The stills are out from episode 8. Looks like a heartbreaker.

Someone upstream referenced data from tv.pararotanalytics.com. According to their findings Fellow Travelers is pulling in phenomenal numbers. It ranks at 99.5 percentile in drama series and 99% in the romance genre, ie greater than any of their peer shows. In the past 30 days audience demand both in the US and internationally has increased by 144%. This is the sort of data that influences what kind of content and programming gets green lit.

parrotanalytics.com sorry

the student of Marcus/ living on the streets in SF .. why introduce him in Ep 7??

and Frankie's new 'fro!

Marcus provokes an epiphany in Marcus but the actual result is probably on the editing room floor.

Marcus and Frankie were particularly tiresome in this episode and the addition of the stereotypically belligerent student made it even worse. A huge, relentless flaw in this otherwise excellent piece of television.

The Canadian bg in the Fire Island stuff were laughably unattractive, bland and sexless. It reminded me of how awful the original Queer as Folk often looked because the fucking Canadian bg on that were so dreary.

Terrible continuity error in the beach scene where Bomer is down leaning over to Tim, in the direct cut he’s suddenly sitting up and then in the next direct cut he’s back down leaning over to Tim.

[quote]The Canadian bg in the Fire Island stuff were laughably unattractive, bland and sexless

You must have felt right at home.

Why is Frankie looking barely in his forties thirty-five years after we meet him as a grown adult in 1953? The crispy dry wigs and nonexistent age makeup make the whole thing seem so fake. Really a bad job in those departments, inexcusable even.

Sorry this episode was a letdown for some of you. As an Elder Gay who was living in the Bay Area in the late 70s, it was a gut punch, bringing back some very upsetting memories. On the upside: Jonathan Bailey with the 70s hair and 'stache looked pretty much like my Ideal Man did back then.

I’m taking a swim in the shallow end of the pool, but I’ll take Hawks fire island house if Tim doesn’t want it. Seriously, the stage sets are killing it along with the cinematography.

r312

I thought he was seen in the 80s scenes in previous eps

I'll take the 70's Fire Island house but I want 2023 beach towels to travel with me.

R316 its 25 years later not 35.

Wow, I'm so excited! I don't think people realize that he's bisexual.

Jonathan's career is revolutionary.

R321 - he’s not bisexual at all. He has called himself a gay man on multiple occasions?! He has repeatedly said he knew he was gay from age 11.

Johnny bisexual? Don't make me laugh.

Anyway, this episode had a different feel to it. Not necessarily a step down, just frenetic. Which I suppose suited the themes involved – Hawk grieving and spiralling, and Harvey's murder and the whole gay liberation movement picking up steam. I think it's important to show that talking calmly didn't get us to where we are today; it was protesting loudly, just like Frankie and the young student had done. I admit that brought a tear to my eye.

I'm sad there's only one episode left, but the story does feel like it's reaching its natural conclusion.

I had hoped that at some juncture after Hawk decides to stay with Lucy, we would hear "Kiss and Say Goodbye" over some scene in which he's saying goodbye to Tim. I've always chosen to believe Mr. Manhattan was breaking up with his boyfriend, not a girl he was having an affair with.

I FF the Marcus and Frankie scenes. I just don't care. They seem to be tacked on for diversity reasons, and take me right out of the story.

And if Marcus and Frankie were white, I'd feel the same way. I'm watching this show for Tim and Hawk.

The episodes should have been longer (90 mins?) so they didn’t have to cram in all the content they wanted to include. Feels like so much was left out.

I love the Fire Island house in all its 70s glory.

Rated #5 on Variety list of Best Sows of 2023.

The fact that it is getting so much attention in mainstream outlets like The View, People Magazine, etc. is probably boosting its audience.

I think the two leads are what’s sold this show fairly mainstream. There is room for improvement for sure but they struck gold with the white hot chemistry Matt & Jonny have. I don’t think I’d be half as invested if it wasn’t for how much I enjoy watching them together on screen.

Add me to those that found this episode pretty soapy. The series has gone from tense political drama to, well, melodrama. At this point I'm just watching it for Bailey (nothing against Bomer, but I find his character pretty repellent).

Why did they kill off the cute son? They might have let him grow up to be a handsome sensitive and liberal straight guy.

Does anyone know who the casting director is. Whoever it is should win all the awards. This ensemble is first rate from the leads to the most minor characters. Everyone is firing on all cylinders, you can feel this is a labor of love. Memorable minor characters like Estelle, Hawks mom, Jackson, Lt. Cherney, to name a few standouts. However, the casting of Bomer and Bailey was inspired. They are just incandescent on screen, the camera loves them. I thought this episode was brilliant, we get a deeper understanding of the tortured bond between these two flawed men. If Bomer and Bailey aren’t rewarded for their acting here, it’s not because they didn’t leave it all out there.

I’d have quite liked his son to be gay. I think that would have been a really interesting thing for Hawk to come to terms with. And whether he wanted the same life of shame & hiding for his kid as he did himself. Would have been a curious plot if they’d made it a longer series.

Hawk is gay and his brother in law is gay so it wouldn't be odd if Hawk's son were gay.

R333 I think that would have been an interesting storyline for Hawks character too. I’d like to think that Hawk might have come out to Jackson. No one, especially Hawk, wanted a life of shame and hiding then. It was a matter of survival. As complicated and difficult a character as he was, Hawk managed to love and he loved his son. We may find his methods disappointing and at times disastrous. I think it was clear he loved Tim and his family, while facing the impossible task of trying to manage who to hurt the least. In the process, maybe hurting himself the most.

R332 The casting, costumes, settings & props are all such impressive quality. So much attention to detail. The music is great, too. Everyone who worked on this series really gave it their best effort.

New York Times Article 24 Things That Stuck With Us in 2023

“Fellow Travelers bounces between the perils of McCarthy era Washington and the advent of AIDS in the 1980s, examining the country through the lens of the relationship between a finely chiseled, roguish diplomat and the naïve, morally tortured younger man who loves him over three decades. Created by Ron Nyswaner and based on a novel by Thomas Mallon (the book makes a perfect companion piece to the show), it is a political thriller/sizzling romance/slice of history worth waiting up for to catch each new episode as it drops.”

HELEN T. VERONGOS

I think he’s going to come out (on some level) to the daughter in the final episode. The photos released show the two of them at what appears to be the AIDS quilt.

when does the promo for ep 8 come out?

No preview trailer for episode 8 yet, but Showtime released this description of the final episode before airdate:

[quote] S1:E8 MAKE IT EASY: In 1957, Hawk and Tim reunite at Senator McCarthy’s funeral and try, one last time, to find a way to be together, but the pressures of impending fatherhood may force Hawk to commit an act of betrayal. In San Francisco, in 1986, Hawk seeks redemption, seeing Tim through a medical crisis and facing Lucy, who arrives with an ultimatum. Marcus and Frankie are stunned by news concerning their adopted son, Jerome. Tim makes a wrenching decision that will change Hawk’s life forever. Series finale.

Oh God, don’t let the anti-GILDED AGE Marys see that list at r328. They will be very upset that the show garnered any praise, since some character wore a cummerbund that wasn’t “period” or something like that.

Matt Bomer has an anti-expressive face. He reverts to a child-like, wide-eyed gaze when not expressing anything else. He looks like a marionette, it's distracting.

The two leads' perfect, ultra-lean gay bodies through the decades is so false, it takes me out of the scene.

Oh honey, it's just a tv series. Did you expect them to get fat for their middle age (late middle age) episodes. Also, some people just stay thin. It's often rather easy for a thin gay man to remain thin well into his 50s.

I think Bomer’s eyes are actually very expressive. Throughout the series, he has communicated a lot of pain, fear, sadness, rage - without saying anything.

You can either get past his beauty and acknowledge he can act, or you can’t.

Sorry, he ain’t much of a thespian. Bailey outperforms him in every scene.

Did they ever tell us how Kenny’s globe that Hawk kept as a reminder of him, wound up with Tim? Last we saw of it, Lucy was packing it up with Hawks things. Tim’s sending it back to Hawk sets off the whole story. I wonder if it will figure in the finale somehow.

Skippy's wig style looked like no other man's hair in those 70s/80s sequences in SF or Fire Island. The series has been wise to eschew wigs whenever possible but those that are there (like Frankie's in the 50s) are really wretched.

TVLine selects Matt Bomer as Performer of the Week

“ On a dime, Bomer shifted from Hawk’s drugged out, blissful haze to the kind of stilted expression that comes with being hit in the face with reality. With impressive finesse, the actor cycled through shock, anger and then, finally, devastating acceptance as Hawk curled up in an almost catatonic state, repeating, “My little boy, he’s dead.” What really sold Hawk’s breakdown, though, was the way in which Bomer gripped onto Tim like he was a tether keeping a sobbing Hawk from drowning in his pain.

…. A guilt ridden Hawk may have been trying to kill himself with excess, but Bomer nearly killed us with a heartbreaking performance that showcased that while you can hide your true self from the world, you can’t hide from your own self.”

Yep, Bomer is getting rave reviews everywhere. But here on DL there a few posters who always jump into every thread to say he can’t act & he’s not attractive (& worse).

Marcus, Frankie and Jerome are insufferable. Continuing their intrusion into this story with characters we actually care about has been a huge mistake. I’d be all for a companion miniseries centering on Black men (and the extreme homophobia they face from the Black community) but dropping them in this the way they did was awful. And I bet this is an extremely common perception but a lot of people don’t want to admit it out loud.

I don't mind them but when white creators do this it often feels like tokenism which is ironic considering it's supposed to be progressive inclusion and diversity yada yada. It needs to feel organic and have proper attention paid and that is not the case here. The verisimilitude is fine. It's plausible! Unlike in Gilded Age, where the diversity narrative sticks out like a sore thumb. But I do somewhat care about Peggy Scott. Still, it sticks in my craw she has always been dressed in fade into the background earth colors.

[quote]The two leads' perfect, ultra-lean gay bodies through the decades is so false, it takes me out of the scene.

You just have to suspend disbelief. You can't expect actors/actresses to have period bodies anymore. It's not compatible with modern life.

Admit it, you just don't like black people and don't want to see them on tv.

Black people exist. It's not a "diversity narrative" to acknowledge that.

What's funny is that homophobic people often feel the same way about gay characters in movies and TV

Quit trying to "fix" my observation, r352.

r354 actors/actresses aren't going to get untoned and flabby for a role anymore. Nobody in LA or NYC is going to get untoned and flabby, period.

That Melton boy in MAY DECEMBER apparently gained 60 lbs. for his role. And it paid off.

^^Good for him.

I love Todd Haynes but May December is a big meh.

I’d rather see those lean toned bodies, the more of them the better. That is something that doesn’t need to be realistic.

Marcus & Frankie fit fine into the 1950’s story of repression and discrimination. In 1970’s & 1980’s San Francisco, except for a couple of brief interactions with Tim, they seem to be from a whole different movie. They cut Mary out of the story after the 1950’s except for one short phone call in the first episode. They could have done the same with Marcus & Frankie. They certainly didn’t need to add a new character. My biggest criticism of the series is that they tried to include more gay history than they had time to really explore. The Harvey Milk references seemed especially out of place since neither Tim or Hawk were directly involved.

I didn’t mind the Harvey Milk stuff. It fitted given Tim lived in San Fran & would have known him at least from afar. I think his death would have affected him & I thought it was quite poignant at the end where Hawk was in tears watching the vigil on the beach. In tears for his life of lies, for losing Skippy, for never being able to be freely gay as so many were fighting for.

I didn’t need a new character to be added in ep7. The Frankie & Marcus stuff is OK for me in that it adds in a friendship with Tim that endured over the years. & it contrasts with what Hawk could have had. Both relationship wise & in terms of a friendship with them all. But I don’t need a kicked out kid. What’s the point of him? We know even today kids are kicked out for being gay. It’s not a historical thing. My other bug bear with Marcus & Frankie is the distinct lack of chemistry between the actors. I just don’t believe it. I’m not sure if it’s because Matt & Jonnys burns off the screen and so everyone else seems a bit lack lustre or if they just don’t have any! Maybe both..!

They needed to get Marcus out of his clothes in every episode. Wasted opportunity. It's quickly alluded that he was a sex addict. Why didn't we see him laying his fine daddy pipe in SF?

That we don't see sexy Marcus is the same gripe I have about the production design around Peggy in Gilded Age. Peggy in blah tones. Not allowed to shine. Jelani is a stud but only the white guys are allowed to strut.

They didn't add the son in ep7... he was in earlier eps however this is just how he came into their lives

No, not Jackson. The student of Marcus who gets kicked out for being gay. His storyline in ep7 just seemed entirely pointless & took away time that could have been solely focused on the central characters.

r365

I was referring to the adopted son of Marcus(who was his student we learn) and Frankie... he was shown before and ep 7 showed how he came into their lives

Hawk looks way too hot and in shape for a 55-ish drunk

Agree with r367. Both of the leads are way too hot for how they should have looked in the fire island scenes.

Oh, man. Not too long before my husband died, the doctors brought him out of a seizure but said to be prepared for the worst.

I don't know what Tim's medical issue was but my husband's was a severe head injury.

I’m sorry you went through that r369 ❤️

Hawk must have been the very first Datalounger, because he's 62, but everyone tells him he passes for 34....really!

[quote]here on DL there a few posters who always jump into every thread to say he can’t act & he’s not attractive (& worse).

It's more than a few. And they jump into every thread to trash Matt, Tim O'Tay, Greg, Bradley, whomever. DL is a place where a gaggle of miserable queens come to express their pathological hatred of everything and anyone, on a daily basis. I'm glad I didn't get the DL hate gene, but it definitely exists. I find the hate for Greg the most disturbing. As crazy as the world is today, who's to say one of these sociopaths might not find his way to Boston and murder him.

r373 there are quite a few very damaged people on DL.

Frankie doesn't look any older in the 70s scenes than he does in the 50s scenes

They really didn’t bother to age Frankie or Marcus did they?!

I think they did a much better job of aging Marcus than Frankie. Since they weren’t in the novel, I wonder if Frankie is supposed to be much younger than Marcus.

Yehh, it got a Globe nomination! & Matt too. Although bit gutting for JB who was a fairly equal front runner in this.

BEST PERFORMANCE BY A MALE ACTOR IN A SUPPORTING ROLE ON TELEVISION

BILLY CRUDUP (THE MORNING SHOW)

MATTHEW MACFADYEN (SUCCESSION)

JAMES MARSDEN (JURY DUTY)

EBON MOSS–BACHRACH (THE BEAR)

ALAN RUCK (SUCCESSION)

ALEXANDER SKARSGÅRD (SUCCESSION)

Fuck the Golden Globes!!!

BEST PERFORMANCE BY A MALE ACTOR IN A LIMITED SERIES, ANTHOLOGY SERIES, OR A MOTION PICTURE MADE FOR TELEVISION

MATT BOMER (FELLOW TRAVELERS)

SAM CLAFLIN (DAISY JONES & THE SIX)

JON HAMM (FARGO)

WOODY HARRELSON (WHITE HOUSE PLUMBERS)

DAVID OYELOWO (LAWMEN: BASS REEVES)

STEVEN YEUN (BEEF)

I am happy for Matt Bomer, though.

I hope he wins.

Here's the Bomer/Bailey interview on Morning Joe, if anyone is interested.

It's disappointing that Willie Geist did the interview, and not Joe and Mika.

My mistake at R381.

Joe did sit in on the interview.

before tim arrives in fire island, .....when is the last time tim and hawk arer seen together? on the rooftop in DC? thx

[quote] before tim arrives in fire island, .....when is the last time tim and hawk are seen together? on the rooftop in DC? thx

The cabin in 1968.

Right before Tim turns himself in to the cops.

Then he gets released, moves to San Francisco, and doesn't see Hawk until Fire Island in 1979.

Watching anonymous sex scenes in public, always bothers me.

I guess maybe I'm a prude after all (I never used to think I was), because it just grosses me out, seeing people have these random sexual encounters with a person or groups of people.

It bothered me on American Horror Story: NYC, as well.

I feel like it takes away from our message of deserving equality, because it cheapens our struggle. I mean, what are we fighting for, the right to have anonymous sex in public, and be accepted for it?

It's such a contrast to the real fight for civil rights in the 1950's, and an even bigger contrast to the people fighting the good fight on a daily basis such as the people portrayed in the social services office in San Francisco.

Maybe that's what the director was trying to portray, by showing the contrast between the Milk assassination / protests / violence in San Francisco, versus the drugs and sex parties on Fire Island.

One group seemed noble to me, and the other just seemed hedonistic and vapid.

But hey, perhaps that's who we really are.

Amen, r385!

[quote]Maybe that's what the director was trying to portray, by showing the contrast between the Milk assassination / protests / violence in San Francisco, versus the drugs and sex parties on Fire Island.

There were plenty of drugs and sex parties in San Francisco in between protests.

Deserving equality has nothing to do with whether or not one dabbles in public sex. Fuck that heteronormativity.

There were plenty of drugs and sex parties in San Francisco during protests.

Global Globes are full of shit and always have been. Jonathan Bailey is the acting MVP of this series and to not nominated him and nominate Pretty Boy Bomer is bullshit.

This is why the Globes are having trouble finding a host because everyone know they’re full of shit.

You may like JB better, and I loved his performance, but MB is the lead actor in FT & JB is supporting. It doesn’t seem right that 3 actors from Succession were nominated in the supporting actor category. Hope the show wins, though!

I agree R391. FT is Hawks story although I’d say Tim falls into a weird category of being more than just supporting but not quite joint lead. It was clearly decided amongst them all that they’d not put Matt & Jonny against each other & split the vote. The payoff that comes with that is there’s no way JB could compete for a Globe. Not when 3 actors from Succession are in the supporting category! But it should mean he gets a nod everywhere else & may have a reasonable chance at winning.

It's simple. Hawk is the "Carrie". Tim (Skippy) is the "Samantha/Charlotte/Miranda"...

[quote] I feel like it takes away from our message of deserving equality, because it cheapens our struggle. I mean, what are we fighting for, the right to have anonymous sex in public, and be accepted for it?

R385 Are you implying that straight people are deserving of society's social acceptance because they don't have anonymous sex in public? If so, have to break it to you, straight people have anonymous sex in public all the time. Bathroom stalls, parked cars, you name it.

Jonathan has a much better chance of winning the Emmy than Matt, who won't win against Steven Yeun. Winning an Emmy is a thousand times more important than a meaningless GG.

[quote] Winning an Emmy is a thousand times more important than a meaningless GG.

Fuck you!

- Golden Globe winner, Pia Zadora

[quote]It doesn’t seem right that 3 actors from Succession were nominated in the supporting actor category.

Fellow Travelers falls in the Limited or Anthology Series or Movie-Made-for-TV category. Matt is nominated for Best Performance by a Male Actor in a Limited Series, Anthology Series or a Motion Picture Made for Television. For some reason, this year the Globes did away with the awards for Supporting Actor & Actress for that category. Perhaps they intended eligible performances to be nominated in the plain old "Television" category, but all of those nominations went to people who are in traditional, ongoing series (Succession, The Crown, Yellowjackets, The Bear, etc.)

It's interesting that Matt won the Golden Globe for Best Supporting Actor in that category for The Normal Heart in 2015. But, for now at least, that category doesn't exist.

It’s confusing. It seems Allison Williams is nominated for supporting actress, which she certainly deserves. However, there is no comparable category for supporting actor in a limited series. Maybe I got that wrong when I was scrolling through that incredibly long list.

Apparently that was an error. But I’ve no idea how anyone made that error?!

promo!

Nooooooooooooooooo...it can't be ooooooooooooooooover.

No love for Morgan Lever?

He's so hot!

Perfect boy toy for Hawk.

You are free to love him if you want, r402. He didn’t do a lot for me. Probably the hair.

Morgan Lever is hot as hell

We need more episodes or season 2!

Annoying that this random “adopted son” of Frankie and Marcus (who the audience has no connection to) is going to take up precious time in the finale. They really tried to cram too much into the Frankie/Marcus storyline between the drag shit and now a wayward teen. Again, doing a disservice to the characters, the actors and the viewers.

r118

[quote]...And don’t get me started on the butch singer in the nightclub. I’m outraged every time we’re meant to think this person existed in the 50’s.

I've just finished ep five, and perhaps it's already been corrected (I skipped to the bottom of the thread), but I had to respond. R118, idiot, "the butch singer in the night club...existed in the 50's [sic]." The character is literally based on and name after this woman. Why are some of you faggots so confident in your ignorance? There are a few in this thread even in the less than half of it I've read. If you don't know what you're talking about, just shut the fuck up. Is it that difficult?

Any replies to this will go unseen until I've watched the seventh episode.

r407 has stated her boundaries.

Yres, we'd already been educated, r407. I mean I didn't need to be, but those other queers didn't know.

Still, they've shoehorned in so much that really doesn't matter in that subplot already.

Too much shvartze sun-plot!

Too much shvartze sun-plot!

Whatever happened to the gay Hart to Hart? Bomer and Bailey should do that next.

I cracked up at the end of a new interview with Jonny. He’s 93 your old Nana is watching FT & while they haven’t discussed certain scenes, she’s told his sister that ‘I didn’t know he had it in him’. Brilliant. I love Nanas.

By "have it in him", Nana means "have big cock in his butt".

That & she also thought he was quite vanilla 😅

Which interview, R413?

Link, please.

^^ What a beaut in this photo.

Fucking awful someone threatened to kill him for being gay this year. He also confirms he has a boyfriend in this. Not secret but private. Unfortunately, in saying that, it’s now all over social media & you know some fans will be digging on an MI5 level to find out who.

From r417's article:

[quote]Hate crimes based on sexuality have risen by 112 per cent in the last five years in England and Wales alone.

Gee, I wonder who's responsible for most of that 112 per cent?

The Muzzies!

“And a man arrived behind me and he said, ‘Are you famous?’ And I said something like, 'I'm really famous for ordering coffee,' which is actually quite an annoying thing to say,” he laughs. “And then he got my cap, and he pulled it off my head and he threw it across the room and he said, ‘get out of this f***ing coffee shop, you queer.”

The room went still, Bailey remembers. But he walked over, picked up his hat, and put it back on his head. “If you don't take that cap off, I'm gonna f***ing shoot you,” it came again. “Where I'm from, people like me kill people like you.”

Jeez at R420.

Sometimes I really hate people.

I am vrry sorry Jonathan had to go through that.

I hate to be that person but I've been a huge fan of Jonathan Bailey since first discovering him on Broadchurch, W1A, Crashing and other Brit TV and I also saw him 3 times on the London stage in Company, Cock and a great new play at the Donmar, but I find myself abandoning him now as he goes mainstream.

He felt like my little secret.

I don't like giving him up to the masses.

Agreed, R422. I’ve watched Crashing more times than I can count and W1A about half as many.

Thrilled for his success but I hate seeing him becoming this sorta generic heart throb.

Though I do wonder if his being out and his clean cut looks will keep him from Hollywood mega stardom but I'm betting he's not really interested in that kind of career. Hopefully, he'll choose good projects and come back to the London stage. We'll see.

Well that's pathetic.

What a horrific experience, he could have absolutely been killed. Fuck Trump and the Magat GOP. I’m so glad he’s channeling it into projects to support LGBTQ+ activism. Johnny Bailey is as beautiful inside as he is outside.

[quote] I'm betting he's not really interested in that kind of career. Hopefully, he'll choose good projects and come back to the London stage.

Those Hollywood paychecks are much too tempting. As well as the treatment stars get in American film productions. Catered food, an army waiting on you hand and foot, etc. More $$$ than they could ever dream of. Fuck the London stage.

Cumberbatch is a perfect example.

I’m also a long time Jonny fan. He’s brilliant on stage, I’ve seen him a few times. But I’m genuinely delighted for his new found success. He so talented & so nice. And he’s so unproblematic. He’s out, he speaks out on queer issues, he’s so honest & open about it. It’s a breath of fresh air. He deserves his moment in the sun. It’ll only get more crazy when Wicked comes out!

These gorgeous men.

Morgan Lever (Craig) did an AMA on his Instagram stories. He’s much hotter without the blonde hair.

He said Bomer was electric in person, extremely kind, checked on him to make sure he was okay multiple times, and really brought the room together.

Morgan Lever needs a decent haircut, regardless of the blonde highlights..

I love his hair.

Interview with Morgan Lever. He raves about Matt Bomer.

2024 Critics Choice Award Nominations

Fellow Travelers – Best Limited Series

Matt Bomer – Best Actor in a Limited Series or Movie Made for Television

Jonathan Bailey – Best Supporting Actor in a Limited Series or Movie Made for Television

I'm sad that there's only one more episode.

^That's the mark of a great show. It leaves you wanting more rather.

Craig was not an immediately likable character. But there were also immediate clues to the observant viewer that Hawk AND Tim had him wrong.

Also he's presented as a joke in his grooming but I am a pervert and thought he was hot as fuck from the beginning of the episode. By the end of the episode the writers make everyone see that Craig is human and in love and needs returns he is never going to get.

Hawk is damaged and Tim is also a self centered prick and prisspot many times in this saga. I find Tim the least likable character, after episode 1. And remember, he just LURVED McCarthy.

It's funny, but I love Tim the most. And I don't know why. 😊

R427: I’m paraphrasing, but in an interview fairly recently Bailey said that after filming wrapped on Bridgerton he couldn’t remember how to do his hair, it had been so long since he’d had to.

I, too, hope he toggles between film, television and the stage, as so many of the great English actors do.

I would love to be balls deep in Bailey.

Drew Barrymore gave away the ending on her show yesterday. Other than that, it was a cute appearance with the stars.

[quote] More sex, less politics. That's what we all want.

Speak for yourself.

And go watch some porn.

But porn doesn’t have Matt Bomer fucking Jonny Bailey in it. I wish it did.

Watch Jonathan's hands and eyes during this video.

Jonny is so tactile. He’s constantly touching those he’s with. Someone who appears to hate Jonny was arguing that he’s doing it all on purpose for attention. But I don’t. He just seems really flirty & affectionate. I doubt he’d realise anyone could actually see his hand on Matts back.

Matt Bomer's BLUE STEEL 👍🏻👏

^ Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha

If I had the chance to rub Matt Bomer's back, I would also take it.

He has blue steel nailed. Nice to actually see him smiling like he means it on this red carpet!

Oh god. Ep8. What an hour of TV.

Just watched it On Demand and it's everything good. Crying.

Well, I'm a mess now. What a gorgeous conclusion to a beautiful show.

I just watched the fire island episode and was thinking the same r367 and r367.

Hawk is supposed to be around 58 and Tim around 48 in that episode, and you really don't believe it.

[quote]Hawk is supposed to be around 58 and Tim around 48 in that episode, and you really don't believe it.

But I have no trouble enjoying it.

Who cares. I’ve spent most my life having to believe 30 year olds are teenagers in movies & TV. I’ll take a very gorgeous looking Matt Bomer not really looking his age 😅

I absolutely lost it at the end at the aids blanket. I thought it was a really clever way to end the show. And I may still be crying about it for weeks.

Watching final ep. Big role change in the bedroom. As the Communists invade Poland in 1956, Hawk tells Skippy to invade his hole.

The ‘50s flashback to Hawk and Skippy dancing nude to Johnny Mathis is heaven. And then —

Good conclusion. Ended the way it had to. And a real tear-jerker.

I have thoughts but don't want to be a spoiler.

I didn’t expect to be crying my eyes out on a Friday morning, but here I am.

Wow. Just wow.

No one should be reading this thread after an ep drops unless they’ve seen it. Spoil away, R459.

What I ultimately loved about this series was not the gay romance (which was far more potent than I ever expected it to be) but the militancy of the gay politics throughout, the in-your-faceness of it, even extending to the opening credits. For once, I never sensed a worry about images or subject matter that might scare a straight audience away.

And unlike “Maestro,” a movie length apology for the closet which lionizes the straight female married to a gay man, this shows the horrible damage the closet caused, where the wife and kids are collateral victims of a closeted male who can only live less than half a life. The wife here is respected, given her due, but she gets angry and gets out. Because she learns what we knew in our loins from the beginning — that Skippy is the love of Hawks’ life not Lucy. The kids, who grew up harmed by their father’s emptional detachment have to be strong enough to face the truth much later after the damage is done. One isn’t, one is.

The only thing it lacked was more info about how their son Jackson died — suicide? Overdose (which may have been a suicide?) Knowing what happened to Lucy’s gay brother after he was institutionalized may have helped here. Why wasn’t he mentioned again? Did he kill himself too, as their father did? Was there a strain of suicidal depression through three generations? This could/should have been amplified.

The fraus on Reddit are sobbing so hard they can’t breathe.

Excited to watch tonight.

Gift of a show.

They said Jackson died of an heroin overdose r462, heroin is a dangerous drug, overdoses happen. And they wouldn't know whether his overdose was somehow intentional or not.

Doesn't every man what a boy?

I think this show is a love letter to gays of a certain age. But as a 35 year old gay person, I find it too fuck depressing. I’m out!

oops. typo

"Doesn't every man want a boy?"

- Lucy to Hawk

I’m so freaking glad Matt turned down the role of a Ken in the Barbie Movie. Otherwise, we would never have gotten to see a luminous and career defining role as Hawk Fuller. For those of us who have been fans, believe it or not we exist on DL, it’s been difficult watching him have to play second fiddle to the likes of Justin Timberlake, Channing Tatum and yes Ryan Gosling. His decision to embrace his status as an openly gay actor has indeed closed the door on many opportunities, especially for leading man roles.. Hopefully, that limiting glass ceiling has another crack in it.. He and Johnny Bailey were absolutely brilliant throughout and especially in the final episode. The scene at the quilt with him was just devastating and heart wrenching. Matt is facing stiff competition for leading actor this year. Steven Yuen is the prohibitive favorite for Beef. However, this groundbreaking show, may be reward enough. Hopefully, Johnny will be more successful in his bids for recognition. What a beautiful show.

R444 he seems smitten, and perhaps a little needy

This is going to go down as Matt Bomer's career defining performance. I would not have thought he had this in him before seeing it.

R466 has flounced back to TikTok.

R462 I thought the implication was that Jackson was also gay and that self-loathing over that contributed to his drug abuse. I also assumed Lucy’s brother committed suicide but his type of conservative family would likely not want to admit that openly.

R468 totally agree. Ken would have been a walk in the park for Bomer but this role shows what he can really do. It was the right choice. I don’t think he’s ever had a role that showcased his talents this well. I also think he’s actually got a pretty good chance at winning awards, especially because the BEEF cast blew their initial press run by sticking up for their problematic costar and I think that kept a lot of people from watching that show.

This show is not competing against Beef at the Emmys. Beef is competing at the emmy broadcast coming up in January, this show will be competing at subsequent Emmys after that so not for a while.

But yes at the Globes they will be competing against each other. But I can guarantee what Bomer is hoping for is an Emmy, he has already won a globe, and globes are less of a real award.

Will people have forgotten about this show by the next Emmys?

I haven’t seen any backlash from straight viewers re the graphic sex. Mainstream media is all over this with nothing but praise. I wasn’t sure that would happen.

This was a very well done series. Bomer and Bailey were outstanding.

I would kill all of you for just 10 minutes with Bailey.

I have loved Jonty for years. Hs been beautiful to have everyone else finally catch up.

R473 . I didn’t hear about the costar controversy regarding Beef, tried to look it up and couldn’t find anything. Can you share what it was about? R473, thanks for the Emmy clarification. I agree he would probably appreciate an Emmy win, as many people felt he should have won one for The Normal Heart. It would be fantastic to have not only he and Bailey take home an Emmy, but Alison Williams was terrific as well, as were Jelani Alladin, and Will Brill.

They are so hot.

Bomer is so careful revealing anything about himself, whereas Bailey just answers the questions without a second thought.

I didn’t see much difference. They both seemed to be pretty relaxed. Matt is older & more experienced so maybe that’s it. The puppies were a little distracting.

The scene between them outside the gala in the finale was so well done. Just beautiful.

Puppy love.

I’m glad this series has been so well received. I’ve been a big fan of both actors for years and was thrilled when I first heard that they had been cast as on-screen lovers, but unfortunately I don’t think I can watch this.

I lived through the AIDS crisis, somehow. I lost lovers and friends, and worked for a time as a home care aide to help other gay men living with the disease. But Ive never been able to read or watch any fictional depictions of that time. Even though now it seems like another life, it’s still too painful for me to revisit. Too much death, and dread. And survivors guilt too, I suppose.

But I’m glad people are still telling our stories, and that there is an audience for them. That’s encouraging.

The AIDS quilt scene at the end had me weeping. I might as well have been a frau on Reddit.

Bomer was great when he told the daughter at the end. And Bailey was great in the scene where he told him that he had loved him his whole life.

Wonderful show. Hope it wins all the awards it’s nominated for.

Matt & Jonathan talk about favorite parts of the finale in this video. It includes some scenes from the finale (just in case you care about that).

the final episode delivers

I won't see it until Sunday night but I shall return.

I just watched the finale. It's like their mission was to Emotionally Destroy the Audience.

Congrats, show. Mission Accomplished. 😭

RandyRand - the last episode is difficult but they don't include a deathbed scene. It's not maudlin it's more stoic and accurately reflects the way these two played push and pull throughout their decades long affair. Neither one ever wanted to give over completely to total devotion and intimacy. They each sometimes SAY they want complete intimacy and devotion but neither ever follows through. I had to stop the last episode about 5 times to get through it but I wouldn't say it was harrowing, looking back a day after.

R485 I agree with R491. This story is much more about a lifelong gay love affair than it is about AIDS. I understand your sensitivity though. I too lived through that terrible era and lost friends.

R481 - I agree with you here. Matt is very guarded with the press. I think partly from his 20 odd years of experience doing what must be quite tedious press tours. And partly I just think he’s just a quiet soul. Jonny is incredibly expressive. In how he both speaks & acts. Plus this is his first proper press tour & I imagine he’s quite enthusiastic! He reminds me of these puppy’s , he’s so eager & affectionate.

I have a newfound appreciation for Bomer after this series. Bailey and he are appealing in their press interviews.

Who woke up hard?

R495 Was it that scene with Tim topping? Or the naked dancing?

... when Tim throws him down on the mattress.

and then they cut right to the action!

I had to pause the damn laptop

Yes because the Army “made a man” out of Skippy.

I found the idea of Hawk bottoming out of character

I guess he just got too turned on by Skippy becoming a man. His ass had to have him.

R499 - I was equal parts yes, for my own viewing pleasure, I want to see both boys in reverse roles and equal parts, not convinced Hawk would go there. But I think ultimately, it was just a plot point to show once again how different his relationship with Tim was to anyone else. How much he did love him, how much Tim turned him on.

In the book, there's a passage where Hawk lets Tim fuck him (otherwise Tim seems to be the bottom)

Beautiful finale. I cried and cried, which is unlike me.

Can't wait until tomorrow

I wouldn't forgive a lover who sabotaged my own career opportunities.

All of the "Big Bad Acting" on display especially in the final episode was...a bit much. A more restrained, less "on the nose" approach might have been more effective.

Shorter version: Less HAM!

Dare I say the endless sex scenes became exhibitionist in purpose. "Anybody wanna see out HAWT leads gettin' it on some more!?"

I reminded myself all along this is a Ron Nyswaner written show, the screenplay writer of Philadelphia (1993), and that writing broad melodramatic scenes of suffering noble gays is basically what he does.

Agree about the writing - wish it were better. Really glad FT exists in the world - just wish it were a bit more nuanced.

Sad to see the show end

It really does hit different when both of the actors are gay in real life. I'm sorry, but it just does.

I think so in a show like this for sure. For both the poignant history of our community and as JB said, it was easier to be able to discuss the instincts of the sex scenes with another gay man who has shared experiences. And the press tours as well, it’s two gay man talking about a gay love story & gay history which means something to them personally.

[quote]It really does hit different when both of the actors are gay in real life. I'm sorry, but it just does.

Makes no difference to me.

[quote]And the press tours as well, it’s two gay man talking about a gay love story & gay history which means something to them personally.

I pay no attention to such press, so I don't care. But I'm glad it deepened the experience for you.

[quote]But I'm glad it deepened the experience for you.

No, you're not.

[quote]No, you're not.

Why wouldn't I be? Enriching experiences are to be celebrated, whether or not I partake of them.

Four gay men r511. Jelani and Noah who play Marcus and Frankie are openly gay as well and have been vocal in interviews about how much this story meant to them.

Boys in the Band also had all gay actors who felt the experience was better because of it.

Didn't know all four male leads were gay

That's cool

[quote]Jelani and Noah who play Marcus and Frankie are openly gay as well and have been vocal in interviews about how much this story meant to them.

Sweet, but I wish it meant more to the story, and the audience, but it just didn't. As written their relationship was "important" yet joyless and ultimately not more than a writer's creation. Their whole story felt shoe-horned in for the now demanded "diversity".

Completely disagree r518. The experience of being a black gay man and a white gay man is not the same during this time period (or now even), and I am glad this show told Marcus story and thought it was really important to highlight that. The Cozy Corner bar they go to in the show was a real black gay bar that existed in DC at the time, something I had no idea before this show and was fun reading about.

Now I do agree it felt a bit shoe horned in to keep them in the mix into the 80s, having to throw in the homeless teen as a storyline.

I never felt Marcus and his story ever authentically connected to Hawk's.

In real life I sincerely doubt they ever would have known each other, and Hawk would likely have been as racist as any men in his orbit. It was there to placate the audience, not serve the story, imo.

I agree r520. Given the era and Hawk's class background and station in life, I doubt he and Marcus would've even known each other, never mind be friends.

It was a diversity quota to include Marcus and his storyline into the show.

How many upper class, elite white men had a black BFF in the 1950s?

Answer: NONE.

I'm sure plenty of horny white gay men hooked up with black guys. And if the black guy was a reporter and had the kind of gossip you'd want as fixer to a Senator....maybe you'd keep him around as a confidant

R518 The straights say the same thing about us btw!!

I didn't get that they were BFFs. Acquaintances at most. I don't think Hawk really had friends.

I’m curious what you all think about the meaning of Kenny’s Paperweight? Why did Hawk leave it with Tim and why did Tim keep it, even after Fire Island when he declared he was free of Hawk? Why did Tim return it? It opens and closes the story, an intriguing leitmotif.

He was never free of Hawk. He was clear that Hawk was the only person he had ever loved. And loved him for his entire life. That speech in fire island was bullshit.

Seems like I'll need to get out the tissues tonight when I watch.

I want Jonathan to host SNL.

In my opinion, Jonathan Bailey gave one of the best performances of the year in TV and should get all the award consideration. Matt Bomer did very well but just doesn’t have his range. Plus he’s playing, again my opinion, a very unsympathetic character.

[quote]Plus he’s playing, again my opinion, a very unsympathetic character.

Exactly why he is more deserving. He is giving a more interesting performance than what Bailey is asked to do.

Complex, unlikable characters are typically the best performances. See Tony Soprano, Don Draper, Walter White etc.

The DC tourist paperweight was bought as a souvenier on a school trip when Hawk was with his first great love. That lover was killed in the Korean war trying to prove he was butch and brave.

And we later learn that Hawk’s great rift with his father happened when homophobe Daddy walked in on Hawk giving a blowjob to this boyfriend.

So the paperweight changing hands and Hawk changing sex roles, was proof of an enduring love. Not subtle but it works.

I thought Matt Bomer was outstanding in this. Hawk is highly unlikeable and yet, Matt played him in a way that made you not hate him. My overriding emotion towards Hawk is actually one of sympathy & sadness. Matts real strengths were in the intimate moments outside the sex scenes for me. His eyes & face showed how besotted Hawk was with Tim & the real turmoil that caused him. Also, kudos to him for the zero holds barred shagging of Jonathan Bailey.

I thought Jonny was outstanding too, that final monologue with Hawk. Give him all the awards for that scene alone.

[quote]I want Jonathan to host SNL.

Why do you hate Jonathan Bailey so much?

R532 I never doubted Hawks love for Tim. When Estelle asks if he found someone and he says yes and later shows up unannounced at Tim’s door and says “I’m home” was such a powerful moment, then again when Hawk is dictating the letter for Tim to provide Mary, his declaration of love for Tim is palpable as well as his fear of losing him and anger at what he perceives as Tim’s reckless naivety. So after betraying Tim, he leaves the paperweight. I think trying to figure out who to hurt less, Lucy or Tim, he choses to hurt Tim. Maybe because the army had “made a man of him” and he was stronger now. Unlike Kenny maybe Tim could withstand Hawks deserting him. I don’t know, I’d love to ask Nyswaner about it.

R535 Don’t you think he probably stayed with Lucy because of the baby? I think he had to do something drastic to drive Tim away because they never could have resisted seeing each other. If they were that close, people would find out.

R535

Hawk saw that Lucy knew he was continuing with his "other" life, she saw the mark on his neck, he felt guilt. You can see his face hidden from Tim, as they dance and Tim naively says when he gets the job the two of them will see each other every day. At this point, Hawk has allowed the closeness and tenderness between them to grow but he realizes the situation is growing beyond control, and it could not go on hidden and unobtrusive. He decides not only to break with Tim, but to effectively drive him out of DC. Plus he likely knows that once Tim hears that it was he who betrayed him, the hurt and disappointment would keep him away. He chooses the life he has made.

He leaves the paperweight, the memento of his first blighted love, as part admission of his denied love for Tim.

Hawk thought he could have it all but he couldn't. Ultimately he had to make a choice, be with Tim, or put on the respectable heterolife that society expected him to have. And for a guy like Hawk there was only one choice. He was never going to give up being a hetero family man.

The more interesting thing about that interaction is how Tim had become okay with just being Hawk's sidepiece when he can escape from his family. Something the character could not accept prior to the years in the military.

Brilliant finale. I cried more than I imagined. I hope we'll see these two fine actors working together again.

R36, R37 What I loved about Tim and Hawk was how complex and layered the characters were. Of course, Hawk didn’t want to be outed, lose his career and possibly worse from being in a compromising position with Tim. I don’t think he wanted Tim to be outed either, to be investigated, dishonorably discharged, have the government tell his parents the way they threatened to expose Caroline. I think he also loved Lucy, he just was never in love with her as he was with Tim. Not only did he not want her to suffer the pain her parents did when Lenny was outed, but she was carrying his child. The antagonist in this story isn’t Hawk but a corrupt immoral government that forced people into hiding their true selves and having to make impossible decisions. It’s true Hawk is calculating and at times ruthless to protect himself and the people he cares for, but he’s no monster. Tim, on the other hand is no saint. He knew full well, Hawk would respond to his telegram . after telling him he had to join the army to get away and effectively releasing him. He desperately wanted back in Hawk’s life despite knowing he was married and Lucy was pregnant, not exactly the high minded morality he aspired to. Tim’s refusal to accept the reality of their situation led time and time to heartbreak but it came from such passion and love for a man he could never have fully.

Showtime usually makes dreadful shows, but this was great. The security clearance details really hit home for me. When I was younger, government work was off limits because they would disqualify you for being gay. I’ve built a fairly successful career as a contractor, but having the government investigate and reject you because of your sexuality still stings.

r541 I have a similar story. When I was a very young man I wanted to go into the US Foreign Service but at the time it was "no gays allowed in government" and I never could've been closeted so that was off limits to me.

We weren't allowed to work for our own government. Think about that for a minute.

I wonder how many intelligent, creative gay people would've gone into government work and the contributions they would've made if it hadn't been for that idiotic rule.

I don't think Matt Bomer was so great playing an unlikable character, he was beautiful to look at playing an unlikable character. There's a difference. The whole thing suffered from a certain earnestness that gets very one-note when all the actors do it, which they pretty much all did.

Bomer is an ok actor, but as was said earlier his very standard issue, pretty Ken doll face doesn't convey a lot of nuance. His face is a "pretty mask", but never less than enjoyable to watch. He did a fine enough job, but overuses his shocking blue-eyed stare.

Bomer is very limited as an actor.

Why does Bomer even bother continuing his C list career at this point? Terrible actor and his good looks are smoke and mirrors at his age.

[quote]Bomer is an ok actor[/quote]

[quote]Bomer is very limited as an actor.[/quote]

So most of the people here, and most of the online community, and all of the critics are wrong?

Gee, thanks for setting me straight. (And go fuck yourselves.)

r546 gets profane when forced to consider opinions other than his own.

How very dare we.

No, R547.

I'm quite happy to consider other opinions. But this is not about "opinions different than" my own. It's about giving reasoned statements about said opinions. Then, at least, we can argue and debate.

But saying "Bomer sux!" adds absolutely NOTHING to the discussion. If you've got more than your predisposed biases to share, than do so. Share with us the blinding insight that has heretofore passed us by.

Otherwise, you're just a troll and should be treated as such.

It genuinely surprises me how anyone can watch FT & conclude that Matt or Jonny are terrible actors. Maybe there are better ones out there or ones you prefer to watch but that doesn’t take away the fact both of them are pretty talented. They absolutely carried this show.

Still each to their own. FT seems to have been extremely well received overall & I imagine that’s exactly what they hoped for.

[quote]It genuinely surprises me how anyone can watch FT & conclude that Matt or Jonny are terrible actors.

You're datalounging now. Get used to it. DATALOUNGE HATES EVERYONE.

Unless they have enormous penises.

Or unless they commit heinous crimes but have hot mugshots.

I wonder if the Bomer haters watched the show. If so, they must have been gritting their teeth. It’s hard to deny he gave a brilliant performance as Hawk unless you just don’t like the guy. Datalounge is the only place I see these negative comments. I just expect it now.

R543 I’m curious. Who do you think would have better in the role of Hawk?

Datalounge is full of QUEERS who think EVERY gay actor, story and theme is AMAZING, and if anyone dares look deeper they will be HISSED at and called hateful.

Collectively, their favorite movie ever is "Mean Girls".

R555, you’ve posted fourteen times on this thread. Go find another thread to stink up.

R15:

I'm watching a mini-series titled ECHOES on Netflix with Matt and Michelle Monahan. He's straight in that one.

It was a heartbreaking finale. It brought my husband's death to mind even though he didn't die of AIDS it was still devastating. When Hawk cried at the quilt, my waterworks started hard. Matt Bomer did an exceptional job there.

I remember the Roy Cohn section of the AIDS quilt:

Bully. Coward. Victim.

Summed him up pretty well.

I thought it was strange that just before the episode started Showtime indicated season finale. I would have thought it would have said series finale. Probably nothing.

This series was very well done, Bomer and Bailey were excellent casting, and both delivered stellar performances. The final scene between the two, and the last scene over the AIDS quilt could not have been improved upon. Tim struggled through his conflicts and pain, despite the tragedy of his illness and shortened life, he reached a state of self knowledge and acceptance. He did not offer Hawk absolution, but an understanding of the meaning their love had for him. Hawk was just beginning to understand his life and its impact, standing over Tim's quilt he had no defences. When people die we can always find them as we left them, they are gone but our relationship to them remains. We are left to make sense. The rest of his life will be spent trying to come to terms with what his choices cost him and others. His losses are tremendous.

Shallow comments - did anyone else think 80s Hawk looked like Mitt Romney? And I hate when they have brown eyed children of two blue eyed parents.

I was struck by the parallels between how Tim tells Hawk he (Hawk) has to go home because he’ll distract him (Tim) from the work he has to do. It mirrors Hawk removing Tim permanently as a distraction from his work decades earlier.

And to go back to the removal, this is how I understood it. When Lucy is having pregnancy complications she tells Hawk that she tried to call his office twice and he was not at work. Then she tells him that it is her job to worry about the baby and his job to worry about his career. His absences to see Tim are jeopardizing his job and she lets him know that she knows that. Tim’s comment then further reinforce the threat to his job.

Random comment - This week NCI has a deadline for applications to come up with a vaccine for the Herpes virus that causes Kaposi’s Sarcoma. It’s so surreal to think of a vaccine for KS. Back in ‘86 people had no idea viruses even caused cancer. HIV transformed so much of what we know about disease.

R562 Don' think HIV is a disease.

No, it’s a virus. The fact that KS is caused by a herpes virus infection and similar breakthroughs was what I was referring to.

I felt shattered and had a crying hangover this morning.

Heartbreaking that their love was so frustrated by relentless societal rejection and malignant government actions. If only everyone saw it like Tim: “It’s not who we sleep with. It’s who we love.”

More award nominations for the show and Matt and Jonathan.

This was the best drama series I've seen in years.

The last two episodes were devastating.

I grew up in San Francisco in the 1960's-1980's and became an HIV laboratory research scientist who worked with blood samples that I drew from AIDS patients, many of whom were friends, ex-boyfriends, neighbors, landlords, and colleagues. I watched many of them die. I was a senior in high school when Moscone and Milk were murdered. Narrowly escaped getting bashed by the cops during the White Night riots. My biological father was a locally prominent businessman and a closeted, homosexual (he didn't deserve the term "gay") narcissist asshole alcoholic. Matt Bomer's character is a saint by comparison. I did discover and befriend one of my father's younger, live-in fuck buddies (parents were divorced), who was delightful. I'll never know whatever happened to him. The scene with Skippy and Jackson was cathartic. I didn't expect to turn out to be gay and didn't want to have anything in common with my father.

My husband and I, now both in our 60's, have elected not to watch or read anything again about gay history in SF for many years. This was an excellent series but we're both finding it difficult to stay asleep tonight. I woke up crying in the fetal position (Oh, Mary!) and thank Goddess for the Vodka and Benzos in our cabinet.

Hugs to you r568

Link to Twitter post from quilt creator for Fellow Travelers:

It’s hard to stop thinking about this series. I didn’t really expect it to be this good. I’m going to have to watch it again.

[quote]Agree about the writing - wish it were better. Really glad FT exists in the world - just wish it were a bit more nuanced.[/quote] Thanks to the poster upthread for this; totally sums up my feelings about the show. I also wish the show had stayed largely in the McCarthy era. Bailey was excellent, I thought, and Bomer was fine -- it was his character I couldn't stand. I'm not Tim, but I would have walked away permanently had my lover screwed me out of a coveted job.

R568

I feel you, brother. Watching this show became part cathartic/part past in the present. I am about your age, lived through so much that was part of the storyline. I cried over things I thought I had long put to rest, old memories surfaced, even a few unresolved conflicts with people long gone. This is one series I will never revisit. My takeaway is that Tim was right, the loving is more important than being loved. The ones who love more will feel more pain, but their lives are much richer for it.

R567 Thanks for the link. I haven’t looked forward every week to a show in quite a long time, but I found myself anxious for Friday night to roll around. I’m going to miss Hawk and Tim and their fellow travelers. I’m so glad they are being recognized. Matt and Johnny were flat out brilliant but the entire cast was phenomenal. The writing, set design, costumes and cinematography was outstanding and hopefully will be recognized as well. Like some of the posters upstream, I lived through this period and it was painful revisiting those times. I was a first year psychiatry resident when a colleague a year above me in the program contracted AIDS. At the time AIDS patients were segregated into a small building on the perimeter of the large state run Charity Hospital. Many staff as well as doctors refused to treat them and those of us who did were actively avoided and shunned. My colleague, who was a brilliant, funny and warm hearted man carried on working as long as he could. However, the progression of the disease was terrifyingly quick. He soon developed KS with the telltale purple lesions on his face and hands. The last time I saw him, he was sitting in the doctors cafeteria at a table by himself surrounded by a sea of white coated physicians. They were all at least five to six feet away from him. As I approached him to sit, he stood and said “Please, don’t” and walked away. I’ll never forget the look of fear, sadness and despair in his eyes. He resigned the residency the next day, he died two months later. Fellow Travelers is a timely reminder of the dangers and costs of hatred, injustice and oppression.

It's shows like this which make me miss the days when series were a lot longer.

R574 that’s so fucking sad 😢

Finally watched the finale tonight and haven't read the last 75 or so comments so forgive me if this has already been expressed but, while I find the series' intentions and production values very admirable, this story would have been so much more powerful had it been told in about 4 episodes. I appreciate the book, which I read years ago when it first appeared, all the more now.

So many short unnecessary scenes in the last 3 episodes zig-zagging back and forth in time and simply repeating info and emotions we've already seen. Exhausting and unhelpful dramatically. Some faster pacing and more tension, pleas. I also sorely missed Roy Cohn, the DC McCarthy politics and its aftermath.

All those extended repetitive scenes of Tim suffering and dying intermixed with constant earlier sex scenes just dragged it all down for me. Obviously, we needed to see what happened to Tim but prolonging it out weakened the message and the horrible shock value.

Ok, flame me now.

However, I'll happily admit that final scene with the AIDS Quilt and Hawk and his daughter was extremely powerful.

R577 If you read the 75 comments you skipped, you will find that others agree with you about the crammed rushed nature of the last 3 episodes. Most of us wish that had been fixed by making the series longer, though, not shorter. There aren’t many complaints about the sex scenes. The show’s creator and writers made a point of making each encounter different and designed to advance the story. They believed that the sex was integral to the plot. Some people wanted more political content and some wanted less. In spite of the criticism, I found the series compelling and very well done. It deserves the award nominations it has gotten.

Is Link to new thread when this one is complete.

Sorry - here is the link

TV Guide's says that Jonathan Bailey gives the13th best performance of the year in Fellow Travelers. Matt Bomer didn't make the list.

Both Matt & Jonathan are being highly praised and nominated for awards, sometimes together, sometimes separately. They are not competing against each other.

Link to new thread

I'm putting this here and in part 3... Did anyone else think that Hawk lied about his HIV status? Does the book give more info?

The book only deals with the 1950s, plus an intro and outro in the 1990s. Hawk's HIV status and test are not events in the book.

R584 I don’t think he lied. He was outwardly “bulletproof.” Most of his wounds were internal.