The Crown: Season 6

On episode 3 and it’s a real snooze fest….very muffled, soft and lifeless

Every single person felt like an extra this season

Dominic West was the only strong actor/character….but he had so little to work with. I’m honestly shocked by how utterly awful this season is

Shut up! It’s my favorite series. I haven’t started watching yet!

Oh, no. Not the dead conversations.

Stay away from these threads, R4 chicken little

Spoiler: Diana dies.

The Ghost Diana bits were absolutely awful. In neither scenes they never even mentioned “the boys”? Peter Morgan seriously fucked up with the Ghost Diana and Ghost Dodi shit. And speaking of which the demonization of daddy came off as just a tad racist to me.

I agree, the Ghosts were so hammy and so very unnecessary. This show used to be about QE2, politics, a country in turmoil, etc. It was interesting.

Now it’s just a telenovela with good sets and costumes.

Maudlin. Tabloid. The Diana-ization of The Crown is complete.

Way too many paparazzi chaos with Diana stretched over three episodes. I know it was there for a reason but it was just too much. I’d rather we got a scene or two with Margaret chasing a stage actor or something.

I thought Margret’s story lines were fascinating in the early seasons. Also would have loved to learn a bit more about Anne.

Andrew and Edward are completely out of the picture.

Apart from the introduction of their royal.uk website there is absolutely nothing hinting at a rapidly changing world, heading for the turn of the century.

Not a single bit about British politics, no crises, nothing. No mention off Hong Kong soon being returned to China.

We only see QE2 sporadically as a stoic granny, and not as the head of state of, especially back then, a world super power.

Sad!

The actor playing Dodi is cute.

I wouldn't believe Anything this series has stated. It a TV Show not a Documentary.

Eddie McVey, the guy who plays William is so sexy.

I knew they would portray the days before Diana's death, but devoting almost four entire episodes to those few weeks was overkill and, for me, felt ghoulish. The story could have been told quite effectively without showing us the moment Charles broke the news to the boys and Mohammad wailing over his son's corpse. Hoping the second half covers more ground; a focus on William and Kate's romance won't hold my interest.

Speaking of, I'll be glad when the actor at R14 takes over as adult William. The dude playing him as a teen looks like a serial killer.

R15, yes, this yunger William did look very disturbed.I loved the little actor who played Harry.

I loved teen William. He was my favorite part of these four episodes.

[quote] the demonization of daddy came off as just a tad racist to me.

Mohammed Fayed was a nut. He concocted some story about how Scotland was founded by an Egyptian princess and claimed Scots were Egyptian. Made a statue of Michael Jackson for a football stadium. Another retarded billionaire.

The actor who plays his son very much resemble Dodi Fayed

Now I don't feel bad about missing it. I dropped Netflix.

They did the William is shy bit to the point of cringe.

So overplayed was it that William came off as a bit aspie

Here’s a podcast discussion of Episode 4. I can’t believe none of the three panelists hated the “Ghost Diana” and “Ghost Dodi” as much as I did (along with a fair amount of critics). Following that is a moderately interesting interview with the director of the episode.

Can’t get over the ridiculous casting of Dominick West as Charles. And of course, he’s portrayed as a great empath and wonderful leader on this series, because who wants to diss the king and lose all royal access.

He’s a spoiled, selfish twat.

I enjoyed episodes 1:to 3, The ghost episode was cringe.

The Crown used to the THE BEST SERIES ON THE AIR - until Princess Diana came into the picture. Since then it just hasn't been the same. I am also deeply disapointed at the last actor to play the Queen. She's a very good actress, and likeable, but in other things. She seems to have a constant "smirk" which the real Queen did not have. Olivia Coleman (sans the wrong eye color) and Claire Foy did such beautiful jobs. Its still a beautifully shot series, well acted, etc. My problem is they took 4 episodes for Diana and Dodi. It's the Crown. I understand that some generations may be curious about the story but there have been so many Diana movies we all know this story very well. And --- it was just OK. THe creator would have been better served if he had just left his film THE QUEEN stand for itself. With the words NO GO WATCH THE FILM THE QUEEN as we turn the page into more drama. Two episodes would have covered it - we didn;t need 4. Smart of Netflix to split it up.

I liked it. I love that they went deep into an imagined version of what Diana was doing in those last days before her death.

I think part of the reason the early seasons were well received is because they were Before Our Time. But then the whole government/Queen opposed Margaret’s marriage to Townsend, so sad turned out to be a complete myth and after that, I watched with a more skeptical eye. Yes, it’s loudly proclaimed to be half fiction but the series really does believable fiction like:

The best scene in the series, the king dies and Elizabeth is now queen, her mother and sister kiss her on the cheek and then curtsy. Philip follows her down the stairs and Queen Mary arrives in full mourning, does a deep curtsy, sinking to the floor (and getting up again without assistance!), never taking her eyes of Elizabeth. Did it happen like that IRL? Who knows, but it fully conveyed the gravity of the situation that young Elizabeth found herself in.

I loved the first 4 episodes and found myself crying a lot and both Charles' and the Queen's grief over Diana's death. I wish they had appreciated her more in life. The part with William and Harry was especially sad, including the part about him (Wm) going missing for 14 hrs near Balmoral, overcome with grief.

The poor kid just wanted to be alone for a while which is difficult in a fully staffed castle.

[r24] was the entire margaret marriage denial entirely - 100% - a fake story? I did check things as I watched this series but never checked that... that was such a long arch it went on for searsons. Was it really made up?

[[R27]] opps mean for R27: was the entire margaret marriage denial entirely - 100% - a fake story? I did check things as I watched this series but never checked that... that was such a long arch it went on for searsons. Was it really made up?

[[[R26]]] sorry guys must be still asleep I meant this comment to go to R26: Was the entire margaret marriage denial entirely - 100% - a fake story? I did check things as I watched this series but never checked that... that was such a long arch it went on for searsons. Was it really made up?

What R22 typed is 1 million percent correct!!

Seriously, Charles has cared about 2 people since becoming the Prince of Wales...himself and the Rottweiler.

He is a spoiled selfish TWAT!!

R11 nailed this. What made the first three (or four) seasons so good was it wasn't just about the royal family; it was about the world in relationship to and with the family.

Four episodes about Diana - a story we all know quite well - so missed the point of what made the series soar. I didn't hate these episodes. But the first three seasons of The Crown were riveting. This just felt like maudlin Diana worship.

Would the monarchy have survived without Diana? If Charles had somehow married the unglamorous Camilla as his first wife, would the public have any interest in them at this time? Diana passed on her height and good looking genes to Wills and his kids. For that, the royal family should be eternally grateful.

Yeah the Germans are small. Victoria was called a dwarf by her own husband. Diana had some “good length of bone” so maybe the English genes will stretch those little German legs.

Philip said of Diana-“she will breed height into the line.”

Surprised they didn’t bring Fergie’s scandals into these last two seasons. The scene of her coming down to breakfast at Sandringham, and the entire family looking at the pictures of her having her toes sucked, would have been priceless. Also the Queen was the only one of the senior royals who had a soft spot for Fergie by then-Philip and her mother hated her.

Another mini scandal that should have been included-Diana crank calling her lovers, and the scandal/lawsuit that arose when the owners of Diana’s gym secretly photographed her working out. Also-Camilla was getting harassed in the street by people when the Morton book came out-supposedly she went into a grocery store and another shopper started heckling her and throwing dinner rolls at het.

I get they had a limited number of episodes in these last two seasons, but it seems they wasted a lot of time on the Fayed’s backstory and Philip’s carriage driving.

I’m still pissed the show never depicted Princess Anne’s would-be abduction.

I just realized William's housemaster is Oscar Van Rhijn and William is played by Dominic West's real life son this season.

The reviews are modest in the Times and poor in The Telegraph.

The real hatchet job is on Carole, a Waitrose Mrs Bennet, clawing her way to the top of the social scale with crampons and an axe. Played with a mad glint in her eye by Eve Best, she is fixated with William to an insane degree, and her desire to exploit her daughter’s looks makes for queasy viewing.

As for the Queen? Played for the final time by Imelda Staunton, she’s still beady-eyed and priggish, more concerned about the fate of the monarchy – and herself – than her children. Her storylines come out of left-field. Did she really turn to Tony Blair for advice on how to be more popular? And did she really steal a kiss with a black American GI in the basement of the Ritz on VE Day, and come home with his chewing gum still in her mouth, as suggested here?

I suppose it was inevitable that The Crown would slump in energy immediately after the seismic event of Princess Diana’s death, but I didn’t expect watching it to feel like plodding through porridge.

It’s never a good sign when you’re pressing the remote to check how much longer there is to go, as I kept doing with episodes five and six (“Jeez — another 20 minutes?”). To be clear, there is nothing wrong with the performance of Ed McVey as William. In fact, his portrayal of the prince’s shy decency is a high point. But these episodes feel underpowered, as if the writer Peter Morgan’s heart wasn’t quite in it. It’s as though The Crown is running out of battery power, like the tired bunny in the Duracell ad.

It won’t be a nice watch for Kate’s mother given that she is presented as a cross between Mrs Bennet on stilts and Lady Macbeth, a pushy social climber and royal wannabe telling her daughter to change universities from Edinburgh to St Andrew’s to follow William and even take the same gap year as him. “Show off those legs,” she tells her daughter as if she was a filly with a number on her rump at market.

And the final episode is a treat. Let’s just say it is a very poignant, beautifully crafted farewell to Queen Elizabeth II, with a foreshadowing of her funeral and reappearances from Claire Foy and Olivia Colman. It’s charming and I bet it makes you cry. But it feels the right decision to close the curtain on The Crown now. The closer we get to the present, the weaker its dramatic power. It is running out of steam. It had some great moments and some bad ones. But all good things come to an end.

[quote] And did she really steal a kiss with a black American GI in the basement of the Ritz

You go, girl!

Apparently the last six episodes are Hallmarkesque love letter to the most vapid couple on the planet Princess Bulimia & Prince Peggy.

Imelda Staunton has redeemed herself in these final six episodes.

It didn’t really say which GI was kissed. Elizabeth, Margaret & company partied in a large group until dawn in the episode.

But, whatever. It’s "The Crown”. I guess it wasn’t enough to just show the excitement of the princesses free of their cage and giddy with relief over the end of war.

Leslie Manville was absolutely extraordinary and heartbreaking in the episode focused on her physical decline.

r45 LESLEY

They weren’t very kind to Carol Middleton. Other storylines they could’ve explored:

Andrew and Fergie

The Queen Mother’s death, which was very close in time to Princess Margaret’s passing

Brexit and the Scottish independence referendum

Harry and Megan, although that’s probably too fresh/raw

I've only watched the first episode of the final season WILLSMANIA but loved it as much as I have the entire show. Very emotional, very powerful performances from everyone, especially Jonathan Pryce. We can never know what life was really like behind the scenes but I enjoyed this version very much and found it quite believable and touching.

You guys are just so picky.

They lost it, when they stopped focussing on the Queen.

We all know about Diana, Charles, and the Fayeds. It's a soap opera.

The episode with Tony Blair counseling reform came close to capturing the old magic. The scene with the Queen and her private secretary questioning the feudal officeholders about their functions was good. William's struggles after the death of his mother was also good. But do we need to have Carole Middleton portrayed as a scheming stage mother of sorts?

I thought it was pretty shit to drag Carole Middleton into this... unkind, unnecessary... whatever the gossip she's a private person... it just seemed really spiteful.

[quote] The Crown used to the THE BEST SERIES ON THE AIR - until Princess Diana came into the picture. Since then it just hasn't been the same.

I disagree. The fourth season with Emma Corrin as Diana was great--the scenes of her roller skating around the palace before her wedding, and later hugging a stricken queen trying to elicit love from her, were some of the best moments of the show. The show went downhill when Imelda Staunton because the queen

[quote] I thought it was pretty shit to drag Carole Middleton into this... unkind, unnecessary... whatever the gossip she's a private person... it just seemed really spiteful.

The mother of the Princess of Wales and the grandmother of the future king cannot be a private person.

r47 and r50=Carole Middleton

OK. So who was Princess Diana's paternal grandmother? Or Joe Biden's mother? No googling.

r54 The answer to both is George Santos.

I'm so bored by the Tony Blair and William/Kate stuff. The queen is hardly in this season! The actor playing William is pretty good but the one playing Harry looks nothing like him.

I agree with the poster upthread who felt the closer the series got the modern era the duller it became.

The people who ran The Firm in the 1940s - 1990s are now dead, so a lot can be done with those years. People running The Firm today - you don’t want to piss them off, even inadvertently. They are in league not just with the totals abs MI5/6, but also with Murdoch. The Murdochs will eat you alive for the rest of your life in their newspaper pages, their cable TV shows and their websites. They’ll hack your phones, your laptops, your car.

I can see why they don’t want to portray anything realistically and would dump dirt on non royals.

S6 has moved well-beyond the 1990s, r57.

I wouldn't say WELL beyond. Episode 6 finally got us to the 21st century.

Sorry -- I meant Episode 8.

By the way -- Princess Margaret was born in 1930, so that means she was only 15 on VE Day. Wasn't she a little young to be partying at the Ritz?

I thought too much time was spent on William and Catherine and Carole Middleton, and it was as if Andrew Fergie and Edward didn't even exist. And Margaret had kids. Where were they? Didn't even get a walk through while their mother struggled with illness and death. And the Queen looking inward at her own life and the appearance of Claire Foy and Olivia Colman was just a little too much. They had no where to go in the final episode. IMO it was a huge flaw to ignore Andrew and the scandals. I actually loved the first four episodes. Imagining how Dodi and Diana's relationship evolved and his scheming, overbearing father was interesting to me. We only knew the most superficial facts about them. The series gave them some dimension and made them more human to me. Especially Dodi. I watched an interview with Kalid Abdalla and he said they had no idea what Dodi sounded like, his voice, how he spoke, etc. He was so one dimensional. I think he did a really excellent job of creating a really believable version of Dodi, and the relationship. Elizabeth Debicki was just extraordinary as Diana. My favorite among the cast for the whole series are Clare Foy, Josh O'Connor, Dominic West, Matt Smith, Emma Corin, Elizabeth Debicki, Helena Bonham Carter and Lesly Manville. The guy who played King George 6 in Season 1 was good too.

I'm liking the scenes between Staunton and William but overall it feels tired and perfunctory, as if Julian Fellowes wrote it.

S6:E5 was way OTT with sentimentality. Prince Philip would have paid William a visit to tell him to get his shit together, this is your JOB, not giving some psyco babble about grief.

I got a little misty during the Princess Margaret episode. Lesley Manville was great.

The last episode is the production at its best and the writing (and fictionalization) at its worst. The scenes with Foy and Colman played better than I thought they would. Prince Philip's irascibility was funny and in character.

[quote] Other storylines they could’ve explored: *Andrew and Fergie *The Queen Mother’s death, which was very close in time to Princess Margaret’s passing *Brexit and the Scottish independence referendum *Harry and Megan, although that’s probably too fresh/raw

They did cover the Queen Mother's death--her passing got a lot of attention in episode 5. they did not show the state funeral (nor Margaret's private funeral) because they had already done so much this season with Diana's big funeral. I think they felt the audience would have become overwhelmed by all of the funerals 9as the royals themselves felt during that time period).

As for the other things: Peter Morgan has said he never wanted to move close to current events because he felt he could not be distanced enough from things that just happened in the news, so both Brexit and Harry/Megan were absolutely no-gos. And in any case, he has also said many times he would not cover the tabloid problems of the Queen's other children and grandchildren because that's not what the show's about--he's said it's about "The Crown," so it's about the Queen, her heir, and his heir, and the family members closest to them (i.e. their parents and spouses, and the siblings closest to them). Morgan said if he went off into discussing the other sex scandals viewers would lose focus as to the point of the series. As it was I thought Camilla got short shrift this season--especially given that the superb actress Olivia Williams was playing her.

and every word of it is true and actually happened exactly as depicted!

Sounds like he was just too cowardly to touch the Prince Andrew/Epstein stuff

Enjoyable Q&A here in NYC with Elizabeth Debicki preceding a screening of the Season 6 premiere “Persona Non Grata.” Debicki was highly articulate discussing her experiences playing Diana. The moderator asked her about the scene where an imagined version of Diana appears to Charles and Debicki said “First of all thank you for not referring to her as Ghost Diana.” She apologized for being late to the Q&A-“The traffic here is hideous. Is it becausr of the big tree?”

R68 I think you may be right. There wasn't much controversy in the series as a whole aside from Charles and Camilla and it's an old story now. exhaustively covered for years. But Andrew? And really all he would have had to do is have a scene with a TV set tuned on to the news, or an aide talk about the Prince inviting Epstein and his hag to Buckingham Palace or Windsor or where ever the fuck they were. Maybe a news broadcast blaring that Andrew was getting sued. Even a scene with Elizabeth standing at a table looking at all the newspapers with headlines about Andrew and Epstein, and Phillip walking in and making some remark. Hell in just 15 seconds they could have at least acknowledge that it happened, not entirely erase the character and the scandal from the series.

But Andrew? And really all he would have had to do is have a scene with a TV set tuned on to the news, or an aide talk about the Prince inviting Epstein and his hag to Buckingham Palace or Windsor or where ever the fuck they were.

Morgan was adamant long before the Epstein scandal broke that he did not want to do recent events, as much as you clearly wished he would do them. Originally he planned to end the series with Elizabeth's 50th Jubilee in 2002, and he decided finally that we was willing to go up to the royal wedding 2005 and no higher. He's right that it would have changed the flavor of the show to have done even more tabloid stuff--as it was the weakest episodes on the show were usually about stuff that were covered too much in the tabloids of recent memory (like the Dodi-Diana romance).

Morgan said he DID comment on the Epstein scandal indirectly in the "Favourites" episode in season 4, btw.

The Queen has a lengthy lunch with Andrew, who tells her salacious details about the softcore film his then-girlfriend Koo Stark had done. The queen listens politely and without comment, but then later tells Philip that Andrew seems "utterly lost."

I think it’s interesting how little Fergie is in these type of shows.

Not even mentioned in the Queen

BARLEY seen except for a family photo in the movie Spencer

Hardly a whisper in The Crown except for little slices here and there.

Is she disagreeable or is it the toe sucking thing?

r73 But she's a STAR on "The Windsors."

Just watched S6 E5, E6.

Already 100x better than the first 4 episodes, with Diana out of the picture.

Imelda Staunton is now almost a spitting image of QE2 in her later, vibrant outfits.

R71 I get that Morgan chose not to, but I disagree with him on this. Because Andrew's mess with Epstein was a real cause for concern for Elizabeth. And she and Charles at first disagreed on how it should be handled. Her habit, well documented in the Crown, of burying her head in the sand when something unpleasant happened, allowed too much time to pass and it had an impact on her reign because of her lack of judgement and consequently, on the crown, by her not doing anything about it. Charles was the one who pressed. Charles was very tuned in to many of Andrew's excesses. His larcenous connections with shady "businessmen" predated Epstein. So Andrew's behavior had a direct impact on the crown and on Charles relationship with his mother. The other thing we know from various media reports is that Charles began to assume more and more duties for both her and for Phillip, internally, as time passed. All the series did was show Charles restlessness and his reaching for her crown, but never showed anything resembling her allowing him to take on more responsibility, or her inability to address Andrew's messes without pressure. Her legal advisors as well as her heir had to really insist.

Towards the end of her life, say the last 15 years, Elizabeth was hopelessly out of touch and simply didn't understand that the Victorian ways she was brought up with were no longer acceptable.

The thing about Staunton is she looks much more like her character when they light her properly. There was one shot where her beady eyes weren't little black holes and she really did evoke the Queen.

Her scene with Philip at the stables was well acted by both. The show to me was alway strongest when it focused on the Queen. She's the one we always knew least about. Granted, he's making 90% of it up and most of that to suit his own politics, but even then he always treated the character of the Queen with restraint and it was a strong show when he did.

The visual of Carole Middleton trolling Datalounge is funny R53.

Did Kate and her mother really run into Diana the year before she died on the street like that?

Of course not

Prince Edward didn't get much coverage on the show, did he?

Poor Dockyard Doris

Thank God they didn't show me with my bff Jimmy Savile!

Fergie and Diana had a toxic, frenemy, codependent relationship. They both encouraged each other’s bad behavior. Each of them separated, then divorced, the Queen’s sons within months of each other. They also gave stories about each other to the press.

They weren’t speaking at the end of Diana’s life because Fergie made some offhand comment in her book about Diana, and Diana cut her off.

I would have rather seen some of that instead of the origin story of Al Fayed and his butler.

[quote] S6 has moved well-beyond the 1990s, [R57].

Yes. That is my point exactly

The guy playing Harry in the second part looks like Mia Farrow.

They really did a number on Harry. I'm not someone who follow the Royals -- but is/was he really as bad as he was portrayed?

The original plan was to end this series after the fifth season, and having seen how the last two seasons played out, I think it was Netflix that wanted the sixth season and not Peter Morgan. I think he was asked to do a sixth season and in order to come up with material for it, he had to fudge with the pacing and stretch things out. Hence the drawn out episodes around Diana's death, which really should have been two episodes at the most. The stuff around Kate and William's courtship really could have been covered in two episodes as well.

The last two seasons would have been great if they had just got on with it and condensed things into 10 episodes rather than 20. They really should have stuck with the original plan.

Agree with those upthread about Lesley Manville and the Margaret episode. Found it quite beautiful and heartbreaking.

R87 where have you been the past 5 years?

R88 I found myself fast-forwarding everything that involved Kate. Not because I dislike her, but I just couldn't possibly care less.

R87 where have you been the past 5 years?

R88 I found myself fast-forwarding everything that involved Kate. Not because I dislike her, but I just couldn't possibly care less.

^Once would have been sufficient, Muriel.

Anyway! For me, "The Crown" was always about QE2, and perhaps a bit about C3 as her successor, but I find we saw much too little of QE2 in Season 6. The episode about Tony Blair pushing for reform was by far the best episode of the entire season, imho.

In the episode where the the 2 princesses go to the Ritz I was convinced they had used some kind of AI to recreate younger versions of Claire Foy and Vanessa Kirby, but it turns out they were real actresses that simply resembled them. I also imagined that the terrible secret was that Elizabeth was gang banged by a bunch of BBC instead of dancing the jitterbug.

The young Elizabeth actress also appeared (briefly, with no lines) in the final episode.

Just watched the final episode and call me Mary but I loved the entire thing. Can't wait to go back to S1 and watch it all again later this winter.

I didn't actually find the portrayal of Carole Middleton to be particularly mean-spirited. What mother wouldn't encourage her gorgeous young daughter to go after the future King of England when he looked and behaved as intelligently and elegantly as Prince William? It's not like she was pushing her to marry some Frog Prince. Wouldn't you want your daughter to be the Queen of England if you had the opportunity??

I was bawling by the end of the Princess Margaret episode, not just for Lesley Manville's brilliant performance but also for the moments with the young Princesses and the wild celebration for VE Day. Just wonderful TV.

For all the complaints about Imelda Staunton at the beginning of her reign as the Queen, wouldn't you have to admit she was perfect by the last few episodes when she really got some brilliant scenes to act?

R95, I don't disagree with most of what you say, but I just couldn't get used to Imelda Staunton being ER 2.

Imelda Staunton played Imelda Staunton as Queen.

Exactly, R97.

I’m no one to critique acting, but whomever the woman is who played the Queen’s sister is a brilliant actress. The scenes of her having and then post stroke, ESPECIALLY the scene where she had a stroke at the party; that lady was incredible, the way she acted that. I suppose she’s likely well known in Britain and I hope she has many more roles to come. She really did impress me and make me feel as though I was seeing the real thing. I really like her.

I think the Crown, aside from some seasons and episodes, is one of the best television series in the last several decades. The final episode was so beautifully shot. I finally finished it last night. Loved it. A perfect ending.

r99 You mean OSCAR NOMINEE Lesley Manville? She's hardly an unknown. She also was the star of "Magpie Murders" this past year on Masterpiece Mystery.

R101 I loved her in Magpie Murders.

Love Lesley Manville and was very excited to see her onstage at The National a few years ago in a new adaptation of the Friedrich Durrenmatt play The Visit by Tony Kushner. Sadly, she was a bit disappointing, mainly because her very petite bird-like presence in person didn't allow her to command a stage filled with a huge set and cast and inhabit that larger-than-life character. Also, the adaptation, which Kushner mystifyingly set in the American Rust Belt in the 1950s stank.

[quote]They weren’t speaking at the end of Diana’s life because Fergie made some offhand comment in her book about Diana, and Diana cut her off.

She also wasn't speaking either to her mother or to one of her sisters when she died.

She reportedly had a major personality disorder, and it was almost impossible to be close with her unless you did everything she said and gave her nothing but unconditional support 24/7.

I'd love to see a spin off with Lesley Manville's Margaret.

Lesley Manville was Gary Oldman's first wife.

She was also in all those early Mike Leigh movies like Secrets and Lies and Topsy-Turvy and later played the lead in a truly hilarious British sit-com called Mum.

[quote]I'd love to see a spin off with Lesley Manville's Margaret.

You mean about the adventures of her corpse? But even that wouldn't work because she was cremated.

The "ghost" scenes were unnecessary, but not nearly as bad as I'd thought they would be.

And for a show carrying so much controversy and supposedly pissing off the royals, I feel the show has been overly solicitous of the BRF.

I was a little disappointed that Lesley Manville didn't have the physical presence and bravura of Helena Bonham-Carter as Margaret at first, but she certainly came through in that one episode. I doubt that HB-C could have carried off the stroke and aftermath.

I didn't mind the ghost scenes. I thought they werew ell written and natural in a way.

It annoyed me that more than once it was mentioned that Will looked exactly like his mother. In reality that wasn’t the case-he had a Windsor face just like most of them. Therr’s a touch of Diana in his face and he has blonde hair but that’s it. Harry’s one of the rare ones to dodge getting a Windsor face-the Mountbatten gene was strong enough for him to look very much like his grandfather when he was courting Elizabeth.

Yes R107, that's exactly what I meant.

r111, there was very little resemblance in Will's face to any of the Windsors when he was a teenager in reality and when those lines were spoken in the series.

R108, agree about the ghost scenes but disagree the show was solicitous. I felt the ending, using all the characters to say the monarchy is doomed, was about as republican as you can get.

Princess Margaret was no Eva Peron.

[quote] And did she really steal a kiss with a black American GI in the basement of the Ritz on VE Day, and come home with his chewing gum still in her mouth, as suggested here?

Actually the funniest thing I have ever read. Peter Morgan is such a tit.

R50, I agree. The producers chose to portray Carole Middleton as a parvenue, which is just what upper class Brits thought of her and her husband. It's unbelievable that in the 21st century a couple who built a successful business are still looked down upon by the country set.

They also portray her as a scheming mother pushing or whoring her daughter to go after the Big Catch...incredibly sexist.

Why not portray the Middletons as providing a stable, loving, family life for their daughter's boyfriend in contrast to a life where you must ring a private secretary to get an appointment to see your father or grandmother?

I agree R117. You know the old guard just hates what is happening to the British Royal family. Charles marrying Camilla who is now Queen Camilla, William the Future King marrying a girl he met at school whose parents sold party favors? And then there's Harry marrying an American Divorcee and walking out. Kind of a shit mess. They'd rather deal with creepy Andrew. After all British sex scandals among the nobility were very common throughout history.

I really didn’t see them as ghost scenes. More like the Queen and Mohammed having imagined conversations with Diana and Dodi? The conversations were all in their heads.

They went out on the note that "Rome will burn", with stogey, cunty on "Prince" Phillip telling Liz that they "won't hear the screams" as the monarchy is ruined.

But, with all the absurd praise Queen Elizabeth receives, isn't it her and her husband who raised this gaggle of reprobates? Weren't they the parents responsible for them? Why do she and her husband get so much praise for everything but are immune from being called out for their parenting in producing at least two horrible, incompetent children, one who's now King of England? They were awful parents. Elizabeth fucked up and ignored her kids. And it's okay to admit that.

R118 you ALWAYS lurk in these threads bitching about what Kate's parents do/did for a living. What's your continued damage with that and what about it obsesses you so? Why so classist? You're the kind of person that should be abolished, along with the monarchy.

R121 you may have me confused with some other poster. I don't have anything against the Middletons. I was reacting to how Carole was presented in The Crown. What I was saying, and maybe not being clear about it, is that from the perspective of the old guard, the monarchists, they would look at today's monarchy and regard it as a shitmess because of how common it has become. I certainly don't feel that way. Looking at the old guard they'd probably view this generation as "ruining" the monarchy.

Up to the Margaret episode. Sad, but perhaps closer to reality than some of the other imagined stories.

I haven't hated the post-Diana episodes. It's all very elegiac but then again it's the final season.....

Dodi wished he was as good looking as the actor cast to portray him.

[quote]isn't it her and her husband who raised this gaggle of reprobates?

Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic]

Just finished watching the final episode last night. The Queen in conversation with her younger selves underscored what good actresses Imelda Staunton, Olivia Coleman, and Claire Foy are. It also underscores how much better the first four seasons were in comparison to the final two. Imelda Staunton should have been the center of each episode. Instead, the series focused on Charles and Diana...a drama we all know too well.

The actors who played William and Harry in the final episodes are very good, in particular the fellow playing Harry.

R120, that is an astute observation. I think somehow everyone assumes the children were all raised by nannies and courtiers, and that the institute is "simply the way it is" so.. shrug a duck.

R126 Agree

Actually, now that the second Elizabethan Era has ended, I'm beginning to not miss her at all. Charles and Camilla and the gang are great fun to watch. As Mammy said to Miz Scarlett about her and Mr. Rhett, "two mules in horse harness..."

R126 Your pedestrian taste is confirmed.

I will miss this series enormously.

I won't, they took too long to make the final season, and it wasn't a good one. I barely remember anything of Season Five, can't recall a single storyline. They could have stopped after the fourth season.

I really liked seasons one, two and four.

Three was OK but it took Colman about half the season to find her footing.

The Margaret episode I just saw was the first time I really saw Imelda as Elizabeth, some actual emotion underneath. Mostly she's been just a stone block. Maybe reflecting the real QEII in those years but not particularly engaging, nonetheless.

Claire Foy for the win. All down hill from there with the possible exception of Josh O'Connor's Charles.

I haven't seen the Princess Maragret episode yet, but her greatest achievement in her life was that "no one liked her& she died quietly". She was a horrible human being, treated people like dirt. Queen Elizabeth& the Queen Mother loved her ex-husband, Antony Armstrong Jones(Lord Snowden) more than Maragret. He was Elizabeth personal photographer until his death. They tolerated the drunken, drugged Margaret and her lack of personality.

OK. I agree Claire Foy FTW, but I also loved Matt Smith best as Phil. They made such an attractive couple! I loved Helena Bonham Carter AND Lesley Manville as Princess Margaret. Josh O Connor was wonderful, exceptional really, as young Charles, but I also enjoyed Dominic West. None of the women who played the Queen Mother worked for me. I didn't like the first one at all. She had an unpleasant personality. After Season 2 her character sort of faded into the background.

R135 here. Diana! Both actresses who played Princess Diana were exceptional, But Elizabeth Debicki wasIMO absolutely outstanding. And I really like the actor who played Dodi, and I thought his father was well cast too.

[quote] I haven't seen the Princess Maragret episode yet, but her greatest achievement in her life was that "no one liked her& she died quietly". She was a horrible human being, treated people like dirt.

Actually, even though she did treat people horribly, her friends were very loyal to her. People did really like her, despite how awful she could be.

I think they sympathized with Margaret's position. That, and the usual hangers on who just wanted to be with the Queen's sister.

Matt Smith as Philip was delicious, the most fuckable Smith has ever looked.

[quote] None of the women who played the Queen Mother worked for me. I didn't like the first one at all. She had an unpleasant personality. After Season 2 her character sort of faded into the background.

The first one seemed terribly miscast and none of them have particularly looked like the Queen Mother or captured what we the public saw of her, so it's very curious why they didn't get someone with a stronger resemblance or someone who might have captured her essence in some way.

That being said, I am fond of Marcia Warren, especially her turn as dotty Penelope on Vicious, an eccentric character in the best British sitcom tradition, so I was willing to accept her on some level as the Queen Mum.

I liked Marion Bailey. She worked for: "Oh, everything improves with a drink!"

Wasn't it the recently departed Sylvia Syms (RIP) who played the Queen Mum in S1?

[quote] Wasn't it the recently departed Sylvia Syms (RIP) who played the Queen Mum in S1?

She played the Queen Mother in "The Queen."

Victoria Hamilton played the role in the first two seasons of "The Crown".

Oooops. You're right, I should have remembered that, r143.

It's funny, none of those actresses really quite evoked the real thing and you'd think there'd be dozens of them of a certain age who'd fit the bill better. .

They needed someone with the personality and delightful ditziness of Estelle Winwood to play the Queen Mum in her dotage.

I wondered if the actor who played Harry, who I didn't think resembled him at that age, was chosen because he wasn't very attractive? Like they didn't want to flatter Harry in any way? There was something very Skeletor about this kid.

Patricia Routledge would have made a great Queen mum I would have thought.

r147 I can see it! I remember seeing a picture of Patricia Routledge standing behind Camilla giving her a funny look.

Agreed R147.

Patricia Routledge is in her 90's. So maybe not quite up to it?

She was busy eating Betty Boothroyd's pussy until the very end

We have no idea who were originally offered any of these roles, including the Queen Mum. Routledge may very well have been offered it and turned it down. As we've seen, the character never really had much to do on any of the seasons.

Some people didn't want to jeopardise their future honours, some, like Judi Dench, had already gone public criticizing the show.

R152 She had more to do in Seasons 1 & 2. But I found her unlikable.

The guy who played Harry was a good actor but looked like Eddie Redmayne’s fug baby brother.

Saw the finale.

It was beautifully done.

I am not particularly an Imelda fan but I finally appreciated her as QEII in those final episodes.

This season in particular had a lot of dead spots.

But the final episode was quite moving.....and this scene.....MARY!

The guy who played William had a horrible mole on his cheek next to his nose and I wondered if casting directors can ask you to remove that? It was so ugly and so distracting from what was otherwise an ok performance.

R158 The guy is an actor. Why wouldn’t he have removed it already?

R157 I loved the ending.

R136 Those were the highlights for me as well. I loved those three.

I wanted the actor that played Dodi to sit on my face.

R162 wasn't he lovely! I was really impressed with the way they handled Diana's relationship with him. The actor did an excellent job of giving him depth. I watched an interview he did and he pointed out that even though Dodi was a media figure, we'd never really heard his voice. We didn't even really know what he sounded like, or had any idea of him as a person. I thought he was amazing and his performance should have got more recognition. Kalid Abdallah.