I don't get it. I really don't get it. WHY are Americans so fucking stupid???

Pundits and historians can debate the reality of the two presidents’ respective résumés. But what the new Yahoo News/YouGov poll reveals is that perceptions of agency — which are inevitably tied up with impressions of age and vigor — have shaped these dueling views of the Biden and Trump White Houses.

Asked whether the two leaders have been “mostly in charge” or “mostly passive” as president, a full 58% of Americans say Trump was mostly in charge, versus just 19% who say he was mostly passive.

For Biden, those numbers are nearly reversed, with 28% saying he’s been mostly in charge and 54% — again, a majority — saying he’s been mostly passive.

Of all the findings in the poll, this might be the most troubling for Biden. For one thing, it hints at why voters worry about his age: because for them, it’s linked to his ability to exercise presidential power. It also implies that voters could prove more reluctant than in the past to reward the president for, say, improvements in the economy between now and next November (since they don’t believe he’s really “in charge”).

Making matters worse, such views may be especially entrenched among the voters most likely to decide the 2024 election — namely, independents and lower-engagement “swing voters” who didn’t turn out for the 2022 midterms, when more tuned-in Democrats dominated the electorate.

Just 22% of independents, for instance, think Biden is competent; 69% are concerned about his health and mental acuity; and 62% think he’s been mostly passive.

Among registered voters who didn’t vote in 2022, those numbers are almost identical: 22%, 69% and 60%, respectively.

For those who don’t closely follow politics, the image of an aging president is easy to absorb; his accomplishments, less so. Partly as a result, Biden and Trump are currently tied at 44% apiece among registered voters who did turn out in 2022 — while Biden trails Trump 33% to 41% among those who didn’t vote in the midterms.

____________

The Yahoo News survey was conducted by YouGov using a nationally representative sample of 1,584 U.S. adults interviewed online from Nov. 9 to 13, 2023. The sample was weighted according to gender, age, race, education, 2020 election turnout and presidential vote, baseline party identification and current voter registration status. Demographic weighting targets come from the 2019 American Community Survey. Baseline party identification is the respondent’s most recent answer given prior to Nov. 1, 2022, and is weighted to the estimated distribution at that time (33% Democratic, 27% Republican). Respondents were selected from YouGov’s opt-in panel to be representative of all U.S. adults. The margin of error is approximately 2.8%.

This is becoming quite a covfefe!

Is there any way President Biden can drop Kamala Harris from the ticket, and go with someone who might inspire more confidence as Vice-President?

I think part of the problem is not only his age, but maybe also who would succeed him if anything should happen.

And I think we all know that Kamala would be a disaster.

He should go with Gavin as a running mate in 2024.

Maybe he can nominate Kamala to the Supreme Court, as a tradeoff.

As some pundit put it this past weekend, polls at this stage are about venting, not voting. People are reacting to inflation, wars, immigration, crime … but that doesn’t mean they’re going to vote for a wannabe dictator next November.

[quote] As some pundit put it this past weekend, polls at this stage are about venting, not voting. People are reacting to inflation, wars, immigration, crime … but that doesn’t mean they’re going to vote for a wannabe dictator next November.

You know R4, I might actually believe you and be comforted by what you wrote, if these same morons didn't ELECT HIM PRESIDENT IN 2016!!!!!!

But since they did (and almost did again in 2020), you might understand why people would be worried about these fucking polls.

R4 - well, supposedly it was supposed to be tight races last week, and yet again, the Dems outdid the Republicans. Even in Mississippi, it was much closer than they anticipated.

ALL of the media LOVE a tight race - they really do. They want people to be breathless about the results and anxious - so they turn into the news.

I'm not saying we have to be worried - but recent elections have gone in our favor and proven the polls wrong.

R4 I agree.

The lack of a true educational system where you stay in school until you can demonstrate mastery of the material.

And good luck with that.

[quote] Maybe he can nominate Kamala to the Supreme Court, as a tradeoff.

He'd have to kill Samuel Alito first, and I'd be OK with that.

Since he won't drop out, he has to drop Kamala. It's the only way to get some positive momentum. So, it's never done, big deal. He has to do what needs to be done to win. It is a matter of life or death (of the country). I feel like stubbornness got us Trump last time and I'm feeling the the same vibe again.

And if he dropped Kamala it would make him look so bad — racist and misogynistic, though I realize that’s a big plus for a lot of the posters on this site — that he’d lose more voters than he’d gain.

He won't drop her. He will win in 2024. The real issue is she CANNOT win in 2028 so it's important for Democrats to begin preparing for what is to come.

There is no context to the questions being asked. Whatever their everyday concerns, most Americans have finally gotten the message that democracy itself is under siege, and that it’s Republicans that are responsible.

The last several elections since November 2022 have shown that. Which has confounded the pollsters. They are the ones who don’t get it.

Job growth. Biden has had unprecedented Job growth month after month. Gas prices are down, Food costs are down, stock market is surging. All Republicans can do is stall anything. Congress is a shit show, nothing can get done because all they want to do is complain about Biden and try and prosecute him for no crimes. Biden too the shit ball Trump left America with and turned it around in less than 4 years. I don't care about his age, I care about results.

Personal character assassination. Works every time the way Republic ans do it, modeled on mean girls in high school.

Yes, they are that stupid. It began with killing the meteic conversion, followed by 40 plus years of post-Prop 13 funding gutting, and all the evil 80s shit of shrinking all things government including education by doing shit like killing arts, shop, home ec, etc, lowering standards or risk failing children, then that problem only to the most litigious and myopic parents imaginable, No Child Left Behind, Smartphones, social media, and the pandemic, resulting in a cesspool of sociopathic idiots with no recourse. Yeah, they very well might vote for Trump. Things feel bleak to them, and he's a 'might as well just crash the plane into the mountains' kinda guy who could very likely be looking at either serious jail time or the Presidency and pardoning himself. To a nation of enough halfwits and fanatics that shit has serious clout.

It’s truly hilarious that people have “concerns about Biden’s competence” but not Trump’s. The jokes just write themselves.

OP walked so we could say I told you so.

I don't believe the polls. Remember the polls predicting a big menstrual wave?

[quote] polls at this stage are about venting, not voting

It's true that polls at this stage generally can't be trusted because conditions can change between now and the election. The problem is that people's main gripe about Biden is that he's too damn old (and yes, I know that Trump is nearly the same age), and that won't change. Biden can't get any younger between now and the election. As the campaign heats up and we see daily images of Biden on the campaign trail, questions about his age are more likely to increase than decrease.

Yeah, Trump was definitely more in charge while he was destroying the country, ignoring Covid, and breaking up Latino families in Texas. Biden has definitely displayed ominous signs of decrepitude as he reorganized our economy, led the world in the recovery from Covid, and helped protect Ukraine and Israel from zealots and madmen.

When Americans are unhappy in their daily life, they vote against/poll against whoever is in office without regard to the alternative(s) and without regard to whether the office in question has much to do with their own daily life.

R6 We’ve heard that before when Hillary lost in 2016.

Biden achieved almost none of his campaign promises. Following Obama who also was a huge disappointment in this regard, it’s probably why Democrats have lost so many voters. You can blame others for Biden’s ineffectiveness but at the end of the day it just means he was ineffective in overcoming those obstacles.

The Democratic party was once the party of the working man, and under democrats, many victories were achieved. But you can’t serve two masters, and when the Dems became the second party of big business they lost a lot of support they’re likely never to get back.

PS Voter-blaming and shaming still doesn’t work.

Tl;dr

What should be obvious, from another thread, is just how involved us Americans are when it comes to pumpkin vs. sweet potatoe pie!

[Quote] Gas prices are down, Food costs are down, stock market is surging.

Thank you Jeanne Pierre now what about crime, deteriorating cities including DC, $100B aid to the Ukraine, Israel . . .and immigration

he Biden White House said Monday that it is "concerned" about the rising crime rate in Washington, D.C., and the nation as a whole.

The statement comes just one day after Secret Service officers opened fire on individuals attempting to break into a car outside the Washington home of Naomi Biden, the president's granddaughter.

[quote] Gas prices are down, Food costs are down, stock market is surging.

You must be a very rich person, to be so out of touch.

I live paycheck to paycheck, and let me tell you that gas prices are only coming down since the Israel-Hamas conflict. Before that, gas prices were the highest they have ever been. So much so that I curbed use of my car because I could barely afford to drive to work.

As for food, do not even get me started. Food prices are higher than they have ever been in my entire life, and keep going up.

Food is so expensive that it actually has made me depressed, because I don't know how I'm going to continue to afford to get by.

So if I'm feeling the pinch as a die-hard, loyal Democrat, then I can only imagine what MAGATS are thinking.

And that doesn't even include astronomical travel prices, hotel prices, rent, and everything else in the world.

I have NEVER in my life experienced this level of unaffordability, and the only people I can see who are getting by in this life, are very rich people.

But I will stick by Biden, because the alternative is much, much worse and something I will never, ever want to go through again as an American.

All of Biden's slip ups are on YT & Fox because my relatives watch them again & again over the past several years.

I cringe when I see them running them but I'll still vote for the silver eggplant over the orange turd regardless.

The video below is from the left leaning The Young Turks" site =

Polls don't vote.

Also, only old farts participate in polls; no one else has time for that shit.

I could understand if Trump were a svelte, 46-year old...

Donald Trump could rape a teenage girl on National television and millions of Americans would still support him.

What that says about millions of Americans I don't know.

OP, we’ve become a nation of non-readers. The average person in this country has the attention span of a gnat.

While our top students can compete with top students anywhere in the world, our average students (i.e., the vast majority) lag so far behind average students in most of the developed world.

A high school diploma in the US tells you nothing about its holder’s ability to read, write, or do math. Largely it’s because, unlike in most countries, we lack any sort of meaningful or enforceable national standards for high school graduation. (Read about the history of federalism vs states’ rights for insight into this.)

Additionally, it’s due to the ever-growing dumbing down of education in this country. Even college graduates today have a much lower reading level, a much smaller vocabulary, a much more limited fund of knowledge, than their counterparts of half a century ago.

The smartphone is an amazing tool. However, it ushered in this era in which nobody feels they need to learn anything. They just live on a need-to-know basis. “Why learn about the Constitution? About world capitals? About how to calculate area or volume? I can just look everything up.”

And speaking of the Constitution and our political system, you can also thank the decimation of civics classes for our stupidity. I often think people in power, and those who aspire to power, relish this level of stupidity as it allows them to operate in the dark.

Another culprit is we’ve become a nation of the underinformed and—more frighteningly—the uninformed. It used to be that most households (not only those of the highly educated) took both a morning paper and an afternoon paper. And read them. Yes, newspapers are accessible online. But the proportion of the populace actually reading them has dropped precipitously.

And people are no longer ashamed of their ignorance. People like Trump have made stupidity some sort of badge of pride.

Yes, OP, you’re right. We are stupid. Terrifyingly so. Perhaps we get the government we deserve.

Oh R34, how I WISH all of this would only apply to America.

Internet and, especially, smartphones ushered in an irreversible era of short attention spans — it has never been easier to steer and manipulate the masses.

[quote]pumpkin vs. sweet potatoe pie]

Incredible irony on a thread about stupid Americans, R25.

I rest my case.

Biden intended to be a one-term president, the bridge from the Trump debacle to getting democracy back on track. But Trump did not go away and his supporters are crazier than ever, so Biden has to extend his presidency. The 2020 election was critical and sadly the 2024 election is even more critical. We’re fighting a war here.

Dumber by the day.

Most Americans are without morals and don’t care about criminality and that a person as stupid, amoral, hateful, narcissistic and vulgar is polling above 10% says it all. It doesn’t matter who Biden is, the issue is the destruction of democracy and ushering in of a fascist theocracy. Their horrific plans for malicious destruction are out in the open. But go on whining about inflation or the age of the candidate (who’s not even 3 years older than the alternative) like it’s 1992 and this is all business as usual. It ain’t. As to why they are like that it’s largely due to the fact the country is so religious which adds to the ignorance and xenophobia.

I’d add that the news media here is appallingly inadequate at its job and the right wing propaganda spews out 24/7 from a 1000 different directions.

Dude OP, polls are bullshit. You KNOW this.

[quote] the Dems became the second party of big business they lost a lot of support they’re likely never to get back.

Not the second, the first. Democrats are big business shill and people know it. Housing crisis, wage theft, crime and homeless on the streets, still no universal health care, no paid parental leave, wars by proxy. Middle class destroyed, administration in service of Blackrock and Vanguard.

Americans are not that stupid, Democrats thought they were stupid and would be fooled forever.

I read once that polling is done by calling people with landline phones.

Nope, R43. You need to read the methodology of the poll, sometimes in the fine print, sometimes you have to go out to the polling organization's website and look for it.

Each poll is different.

Democrats are not the big business shills and everyone knows that. Even the dumbest hick in Murfreesboro knows that republicans support the rich and only the rich, and that includes corporations. R42 is living in an alternate universe.

Oh, I don't know about that, R45. Here in Deplorable Haven, FL, every dumb hick poverty-stricken racist asshole is deeply in love with Trump, and thinks DeSatan walks on water (instead of lifts in his ridiculous cowboy boots).

Seriously.

I’ve said it time and time before. Democrats couldn’t sell free pussy to a bunch recently released predicament felons.

Trump has a lead on Biden. Again. And the No Labels Party are trying to Draft Romney-Manchin as a ticket.

A book I have not seen and will never read allegedly claims that Mitt has considered a 3rd party run. But dropped the idea for one reason—-he was told that he would hurt Biden’s chances.

What if he starts to feel Biden has much less a chance to beat Trump. Romney-Manchin would excite a lot of American voters.

What a clusterfuck it would be if we ever did see a serious 3 or 4 party race. And we might see it in 2024.

Exciting times to be alive :-)

YouGov incentivizes their surveys with cash or points that can be redeemed for dollar store shit.

So that’s one of the main demographics of people who participated in the poll— people whose time is worth about 8 cents a minute.

You have to have an account at YouGov to be eligible for their surveys. That means most if not all of the people who received those surveys probably already had accounts at YouGov, and they have accounts at YouGov and other survey sites because they likely do paid surveys every single day as a source of “income”.

Most people with jobs don’t waste their precious ‘free time’ on surveys that pay $1-2 for ten minutes of their time. So a lot of these respondents aren’t really even employed. They’re people 18-50 or so who don’t have regular jobs because they can’t or won’t leave their house due to their ‘crippling anxiety’ or major depression or whatever.

OP- Americans are STUPID if they vote for the SENILE MUMMY in the White House or that BUFFOON Trump

both choices SUCK

R49

And real surveys done by professional survey groups are finding the exact same results. At this point in time trump is significantly and consistently ahead of biden in the polls. Different polls done by different professionals.

Ahead enough to win if the election was held day

[quote] Dude OP, polls are bullshit. You KNOW this.

R41 enjoys burying his head in the sand, and completely forgets that 2016 ever happened.

"La la la la la... I'm not listening! Democrats are going to win in 2024, no matter what anyone says!!!"

Thank you for being the voice of reason, R51.

It infuriates me when the DENIERS shut down any discussion of poll numbers, just like they did in 2016.

These fucking idiots were CONVINCED that Hillary would win the Presidency, and if you even tried to say anything different, then you were immediately ganged up on, and attacked.

The warning signs are ALL THERE.

We have to do something drastic now, before it's too late.

Kamala Harris needs to be dumped. Like it or not.

People are worried about Biden's age, so the Vice-Presidential pick is the KEY to Biden winning or losing this race.

The extreme far left are going to demand that Kamala remain on the ticket because she's multi racial and female, and dumping her would be racist and misogynistic.

Great. Just like not accepting Hillary as the Presidential nominee would have been misogynistic. And look what happened there.

We have to do what's best to ensure that Biden will WIN.

And if it means upsetting a few people on the far left, then so be it.

Biden needs to pick someone like Tim Ryan from Ohio or Gavin Newsom from California, if he wants to win.

The independents and undecideds will be the ones who need to be swayed, and this is the only way.

R53? I agree Kamala needs to be shuffled off to California. It really would be easier than people think. All she'd need to do is find a sick family member who needs to be taken care of, or say she wants to spend more time with her family. Even male politicians use that excuse all the time, so you would think it would be much easier, as far as the voters are concerned, to believe it from a woman.

But Andy Beshear would be my pick. Or if it has to be a woman of color, pick Susan Rice, FFS. She has gravitas for days.

Andy Beshear would be a great pick, R54.

He's a Democratic winner from a Red State, which we all know is next to impossible in this modern political day and age.

Plus, he's young.

For those of you who keep insisting that Donald Trump will not win in 2024, please watch this.

Let the sting of Election Night 2016 snap you out of your complacency, and remind you of how bitter it was to witness this.

And then also remind yourself of the horror that we lived through from 2017-2021.

We must not let that happen again.

I'm glad someone said something about "sweet potato vs. pumpkin pie" because that is ditectly tied in, with heavy irony, to OP's subject. There was a time when it was considered acceptable to just be smart and play dumb, viz., the marie dressler--jjean harlowe exchange in dinner at eight. but christ, we gave up on beauty too! now let's just be silly, stupid, fat, and go stuff ourselves. Who cares?

i obviously meant just be good-looking and play dumb. We gave up on smart way back when.

Remember when Trump was president but he left all of the decisions to his handbag designer daughter and her real estate developer husband, neither of whom had any government experience?

Because they don't travel and aren't educated. Plain and simple.

R60

Yes as evidenced by the many posts and conversations I see at DL liberals really are so much smarter. That’s an attempt at humor in case you were wondering.

Maybe humans are too stupid to survive.

Make no mistake. If Trump & the GOP win in 2024, that's the end for the human race. It means massive increase in pollution and a complete stop to all work to address climate change. Human Beings will become extinct. War, pestilence, famine... it'll all happen with a huge helping of "unsurvivable climate change" heaped on top.

This election is existential, and too many humans are squabbling over bullshit nonsense, believing lies, and acting out in ways that will ultimately seal their own doom.

Yes, R61, Liberals ARE smarter. Categorically. Almost by definition.

Conservatives are racist, sexist, anti-LGBT bigots with a LOT less education on average, and terrified of change. They're dragging all of humanity and society down. Conservatism is a cancer on the human race, and if we don't cut it out and destroy it, it will destroy us.

R63

I clearly said DL liberals not liberals. And before you tell me how smart DL liberals are , remember I read the posts here.

My goodness I see stuff posted here that has to be about as dumb as anything could be. Some of it absolutely painfully stupid.

DL liberals especially the young DL liberals the future of America :-).

Yeah, you're not even smart enough to grasp the distinction between "Leftists" and "Liberals" so excuse me if I ignore you here.

Trump also built his wall, about 1/10 of it i think. for about 8 billion. so some contractors got rich, all while simultaneously stoking middle america's xenophobic fears, breaking up families of immigrants (or stealing children), keeping our supply of cheap labor flowing (because many still got through) and increasing the size of Border Patrol, INF, and government concentration camps--while yapping about Big Government Democrats and their spendthrift ways. How can Democrats be such spendthrifts (implying capitalist praxis) and yet be so Commie-socialistik? H'mn. Murica, you really ARE dumb!

OP Americans are no more stupid than you are to pay any attention to these bogus polls that are out now.

Okay, R67.

Get back to me on November 6, 2024.

I don’t believe in polls. 2016 should have taught you that.

Romney Manchin 2024

Screw the polls if that happens. And if biden keeps sinking in the polls I think it gets a little more possible.

The majority of the country wants neither biden nor trump.

[quote]Conservatives are racist, sexist, anti-LGBT bigots with a LOT less education on average, and terrified of change.

Excuse me, FEWER education.

You were right the first time.

[Quote] It infuriates me when the DENIERS shut down any discussion of poll numbers, just like they did in 2016

Remember what the experts George Clooney Tom Hanks, Stephen Colbert, Ron Regan Jr...said in 2016

R34 has a great post and r35 is right, most of those reasons are no specific to America, right wing parties are increasing everywhere ( and sometimes wining).

However, it does not address fully the reasons in political terms. The truth is that some of the center parties, democratcs, liberals, etc. did not respond well to to answer a lot of the demands of the disenfranchised who, in some cases, have reason to be full of hate and do no longer feel themselves represented by what they see as the elite.

A lot of people don't pay attention to the news and get their info from social media. Big mistake.

R75

Instead of social media people can and do go to news sources for their news

Fox, Brietbart, Daily Wire, The RightBrothers.,The PowerLine even msnbc and many many other sources of daily news and opinions,

And for the most part we watch read or listen to those we already agree with and reinforce our world view.

Drudge is now reporting Biden told some folks at a meeting that Newsom would be running =

I hesitate to endorse anyone who was partnered with Kimberly Guilfoyle.

We can do better.

Im really not looking forward to 10 new threads on this topic started everyday until next November. Exhausting same arguments over and over and over.

Apparently, Jill wasn't at that meeting R77

A face saving way out for Kamala Harris and Biden picks Gretchen Witmer of Michigan for VP.

Or a health issue for Biden—and that has to happen in the next month—prevents him from seeking re-election throwing open the Dem nomination. Plenty of good candidates and lots of media attention. Donald who?

I don’t get it, why are the folks running America so OLD.

Fuck you, R81, you racist piece of shit.

I sneak peek into the 2024 elections.

R82

Why are the old farts running things?

Because the younger generation has not stepped up. Far to busy not serving the country in any capacity, far to busy not voting, far to busy not running for office , and far to busy not making a big splash.

Besides the youngers have important things to deal with like cakes, being triggered, gender issues, not serving the country in any way, in truth they are kind of duds so far and a big disappointment for us elders.

They instead whine that the old need to die so they the youngsters can afford a house they have not saved for.

Let’s hope for a better future

what have you done so far to make a difference or change that. Yacking on the Internet does not count.

You know, R85, I'd take your post a lot more seriously if you had spelled "too" correctly.

Just sayin'.

R86

I may have graduated university with honors but I have been a life long bad speller. And I don’t really give a shit. If that bothers you then put me on ignore. If you can’t find the ignore button ask a smarter friend for help.

R85, I agree, it's almost like their parents and grandparents were a bunch of cunts who didn't bother to teach them shit.

Go figure.

[quote] Biden achieved almost none of his campaign promises

Bullshit.

OP doesn't hear the same "news" that the public is being fed by the right-wing propaganda machine because it is really not done through traditional news channels. It is done through social media and email trees. As I've said many times A MILLION PEOPLE are PAID to lie to them every single day.

Just for comparison that's more than DOUBLE the number working in advertising.

Joe Biden will not win in November 2024

I feel very sad about that. I like old Joe. But it’s going to be someone else.

Drudge now has Haley beating Biden by 10 points.

He is coming in last among a 4 person election.

Don't wring your hand over polls. All the public has to do is hear what republicans plan on doing to turn on them.

At this point I wouldn’t care if the democrats just steal the election. The Magas are too dangerous. Yall can return to democracy after I move to Canada.

R94 Folks said the same thing in 2016.

[quote]The Magas are too dangerous. Yall can return to democracy after I move to Canada.

I lived in Canada and prefer some place warmer and peoples lives doesn't revolve around left vs right politics.

But in 2016 Trump was too dumb to accomplish anything. It would have been much more dangerous had a Romney got in. He promised us war with both Russia and Iran at the time.

They love me in Canada.

[quote] Why are the old farts running things?

Because they are a narcissistic, self-centered generation known as the ME generation.

They won't let go until they're dead. Which can't come soon enough.

[quote] OP doesn't hear the same "news" that the public is being fed by the right-wing propaganda machine because it is really not done through traditional news channels

So you're blaming op for a national poll done by YouGov and Yahoo?

Paranoid much?

[quote] Don't wring your hand over polls. All the public has to do is hear what republicans plan on doing to turn on them.

Are you deaf, dumb, and blind?

For the past month, Donald Trump has been telling people that he's going to get revenge on his enemies and have them locked up, he's going to expel all immigrants from this country, and he's basically going to become a dictator.

He keeps saying this over and over again.

And he is STILL leading in the polls. People are not "turning on him."

What more proof do you need, that we are in REAL DANGER of him getting re-elected in 2024????

All the warning signs are there, and people are not paying attention. Or they don't care.

America. America is really dumb for real.

R100

Yes yes we are the ME generation what ever that might be.

When you grow up you can run things . Until then you cat sit and watch grown ups run things while you wonder what running things might be like.

Then instead of running things Then MAGA and Mike Johnson will be coming after you and they are going to make the rest of your miserable life even more miserable. And strangely enough the thought of you running for cover and hiding in fear will bring noting but joy to us old farts you want to see dead.

It’s going to be really bad for you. Your future is fucked. You are not prepared for what is ahead .So happy for you. It’s one thing that brings me joy.

[quote]They love me in Canada.

I'm big in Japan!

Well since Joe is now behind 3 or 4 different GOP in a head to head Nov 2024 match up I guess we can all stop worrying about trump.

Actually I think it’s 4.

DeSantis more popular than Biden with voters. Think about that for a while.

Our schools are absolute shit. Our values are really bad. We have done this to ourselves.

R105

This is where MAGA and the other right wing crazies world totally and completely agree with you.

Biden will win in 2024, and Democrats will retake the House in 2024, thank god. The only real question mark is will Democrats hold the Senate? That's a really heavy lift, and it's looking like the BEST case is back to a 50/50 split.

All you guys have to do is show up and vote for Dems. And the more people in your life you can convince to do the same, the better. This isn't rocket science. The only poll that matters is election day, and elections are won by those who show up.

And the motivation should be easy: If Biden/Dems don't win, we lose our democracy, the constitution, the entire American experiment fails, we lose our retirement, our environment, our public education, our civil rights, our reproductive rights, all LGBT+ rights, our robust economy, and the entire future of the human race as the GOP rolls back every single bit of action on climate change, leaving future generations to suffer and die in a dying and unlivable world.

So, you know, maybe shut up your whiny face, look at the bigger picture, and get out and vote for all Dems for every office you can, even if you have to vote your nose. Because all of human existence is riding on you doing your part. It's a simple job. Step up.

Biden will bow out. He'll have to.

He won't. He won't have to. It's not going to happen. Just stop.

I wonder who will replace biden on the ticket?

R109 Wanna bet? The wheels are in motion.

I suspect he will have a "health scare" and politely step aside for the good of the country. He will leave with dignity. But it won't happen until February/March.

R112

It would be nice if Joe does step down if it happens before primaries start not during or after.

That would be nice.

Biden inspires no one. He's boring and senile. He has no edge or charisma.

He needs to step down and Dems need to find a 40 - 50 year old fresh face. Preferably good-looking. With manly confidence, charisma and a take charge attitude.

If not, enjoy another four year Trump Presidency.

omg, presidents should be boring! The president should be smarter than I am, capable and drama-free. I don’t want to have a beer with him/her. Someone like Obama comes along once in a generation, stop holding out for another unicorn. Yes, someone in their 50s would be great.

I think Biden is a better President than Obama, R116.

He has gotten more done, and worked more closely with Congress than Obama ever did.

We also held on to the Senate in 2022, which is better than in 2010 when we lost both the House and the Senate when Obama was in charge.

In general, I think that Joe Biden has been much more effective at gettng things done, than Obama.

Clinton-Obama 2024

I can dream

Yes, that’s true. It’s just when people, even me, think of inspiring presidents, it’s Obama not Biden.

Kamala Harris is dead weight. She wasn’t even the best “woman of color” option back when Biden picked her

[quote]Wanna bet? The wheels are in motion.

Yes, I'd bet. No, they aren't.

You guys are fucking idiots. Joe Biden has had one of the most successful Presidencies in modern times. He's sharp, on the ball, highly experienced, and has appointed and surrounded himself with highly competent people who get the job done. There is NO REASON TO REPLACE HIM. And his VP is highly accomplished and qualified as well, so if you are worried he might die, don't be, we're in good hands. Unless you're a racist misogynist of course. In that case, fuck you.

Again, why are Americans so fucking stupid that they can't recognize and be inspired by greatness like Joe Biden? Why do they need a reality TV show with drama? Jesus Christ. We couldn't hope to be in better hands in the White House than we are right now. There is literally NO ONE who could replace Biden and do better, and certainly no one that brings anything that would overcome the incumbency advantage that Joe Biden has.

Just stop. Seriously. The Democratic Ticket is Biden/Harris, and they will win over whatever toxic mess the GOP puts up. All you have to do is stop irrationally bashing Biden, Harris, and Dems, and show up to vote for them next November. It's really not difficult.

[quote]Kamala Harris is dead weight. She wasn’t even the best “woman of color” option back when Biden picked her

Both of these things are wrong, and just plain laughable lies. WTF is wrong with you?

[quote]Yes, that’s true. It’s just when people, even me, think of inspiring presidents, it’s Obama not Biden.

Why the fuck do you need to be "inspired"? He's not your personal guru. You have issues, go see a shrink.

He's a work-horse. He gets shit done. Presidents SHOULD be boring.

Besides, if you need to be "inspired" to show up to vote against a raging narcissistic sociopath & pathological liar, who is a criminally corrupt mob-connected con-man and fraud, with close ties to world despots and dictators, who has nothing but contempt for democracy, who is a convicted and admitted sexual predator and rapist and pedophile, who has over 90 felony indictments against him, who is literally guilty of sedition, incitement to insurrection, and treason... WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?

Biden is great. It's a lie that he's not. Stop parroting the lie. Push back against it.

R115 is a fucking moron who is just wrong about everything and needs to go sit in the corner with a dunce cap on and be shamed non-stop until he withers under the weight of his stupidity and shame.

R123

Biden was great. Absolutely.

Cal Ripken was also great. I wonder if the Os are thinking of bringing Cal back , that super star HoFer. If not I wonder why not?

I'm big everywhere.

I'm R115.

As expected, my comment was met with the usual ire from the head in the sand peanut gallery at DL.

Some of you are so clueless and out of touch with reality. You can scream and screech about what an amazing President Biden is, but the majority of Americans don't care. In presidential campaigns perception is reality and the perception of Joe Biden is that of a weak, doddering, boring old man. Morally shaming Americans into voting for him is eye roll worthy and won't work either.

Americans are all about style over substance. We want to inspire and energize people to vote in the polls not make them feel as if they have to vote for someone simply out of default. Whether you like it or not, Trump energizes and inspires his fanbase. They are dedicated to him and are not simply voting for him because the other option is worse. Obama had the same effect back in '08.

Go watch the movie "Our Brand Is Crisis" with Sandra Bullock if you want to see the vital role public relations plays in major elections and Presidential campaigns.

So strategically speaking, in an ideal world i'm thinking:

- A 50 -55 year old fresh faced Dem. Must be good looking (we all love good looking people). But not too much of a pretty boy (like Trudeau) because that comes with its own consequences. Ruggedly handsome would be best.

- His wife should be pretty. But not so pretty that it scares off suburban women voters. Girl next door pretty. Think Kate Middleton.

- He should have the ability to be assertive and dominant. This is why so many lower socioeconomic status men (and some women) of all races shockingly support Trump. They want someone who looks like he will get shit done. Someone who will walk into a meeting with any foreign leader and represent America with dominance. Dems are too scared of manliness in men these days.

- However, he should also be intelligent and mature to offset Trump's boorishness and capture those who are disgusted by Trump's sleaziness.

- Policies should address real working class issues and issues that affect minorities but not be too woke and lame (such as using pronouns, "LatinX" etc..) Too much wokeness comes across as lame and corny to anyone who isn't a middle or upper class far leftist at a college campus.

- He should sound intelligent (but not too smart or it might turn off those who are illiterate, most Americans are quite dumb after all) and he should have a sense of humor and charm in interviews. The fraus would go crazy over him.

- VP should be a male preferably a biracial half black half Latino man. They can portray a hetero bro-ish fist bump type of relationship that will appeal to straight men and allow gay men to imagine them as a hot couple in their fantasies.

You get my gist...Dems need to get a fucking clue and learn about public relations and its effect on Presidential campaigns.

Who asked for me, R128

"The Press and pundits can keep being surprised as much as they want. But since I came off the sidelines to go toe to toe with Donald Trump, we haven’t stopped winning and he hasn’t stopped losing."

President Joe Biden, 17 Nov. 2023

[quote] why are Americans so fucking stupid that they can't recognize and be inspired by greatness like Joe Biden?

I think most people don't have a problem with President Biden, with the exception of his age.

[quote] And his VP is highly accomplished and qualified as well

I don't believe this for one second.

She has accomplished NOTHING in the past three years.

If you have something to dispute this, please provide proof.

And show your work, as they say in school.

[quote] we're in good hands. Unless you're a racist misogynist of course. In that case, fuck you.

Naturally, you would play this card.

When people cannot defend their position, they resort to name calling.

In this case, you cannot defend Kamala Harris' record as Vice-President.

Being a mixed race woman is NOT a qualification to be President or Vice-President.

Maybe it counts in Woke World, but it certainly doesn't count in MY world.

[quote]I don't believe this for one second.

Your refusal to believe an obvious, verifiable fact is right up there with Trumpsters in denial of reality.

[quote]She has accomplished NOTHING in the past three years.

This is a flat out lie. She's done SO MUCH MORE than most VPs. I mean, what did Mike Pence accomplish, and why are you holding VP Harris to a completely different standard (I ask, knowing exactly why, you sexist racist asshat).

It's not "playing a card"... you already played the card. I'm just pointing it out and that makes you uncomfortable.

[quote]Maybe it counts in Woke World...

And the mask just slipped. Only racist, sexist, straight-white-male supremacist morons use "woke" as a pejorative like that. You're a Trumpster, or might as well be, you racist sexist piece of shit.

And if you don't like being called that (maybe you're in denial?) maybe stop parroting the exact same words, phrases, and arguments used by straight-white-male supremacists and Trumpster morons.

R133 Nobody likes Kamala. It's not just Trumpsters. But you can continue to stick your head in the sand.

Buttigieg needs to step up

R133 thinks because he's an ignorant sexist bigot, everyone else must be too.

This "nobody likes Kamala" lie has been debunked endlessly. Her every appearance is PACKED to overflowing with cheering crowds. Fuck off, loser. Mindlessly parroting a sexist, racist lie doesn't make it true.

[quote]This "nobody likes Kamala" lie has been debunked endlessly.

538 average of polls:

"Do Americans approve or disapprove of Kamala Harris?"

Approve 35.9%

[quote]She's done SO MUCH MORE than most VPs.

Um, I'm thinking the standard she's being held to might be Dick Cheyney. Has she done more than Dick Cheyney?

No? Perhaps that's a good thing.

Are you citing Dick Cheney's accomplishments as a good thing, or a bad thing R138?

Oh, FFS, R139 -- do YOU think Cheyney was a good VP?

I thought it was self-evident, but I forgot how irony- and sarcasm-challenged some DLers are.

Vice-president are not supposed to "accomplish things." Get real. Nobody haes her and that is recommendation enough.

And yet, Kamala Harris has been out there doing far more than most VPs, and not getting credit for any of it.

Why not post some links so we can see for ourselves R142 what's she's done word salads aside.

I already posted one that you've clearly ignored, why should I waste more time posting others that you'll just ignore, because they don't feed your personal prejudices and ill-informed opinions?

[quote]I already posted one that you've clearly ignored, why should I waste more time posting others that you'll just ignore, because they don't feed your personal prejudices and ill-informed opinions?

ALL polling shows that Americans overwhelmingly agree that she's disliked as VP.

The one with personal prejudices and ill-informed opinions is you.

Cheyney was POTUS.

No, dear. That's not how it works.

R144 so you don't have any specifics.

Why is American me so stupid?

Well if I understand it , and I may not, the Dems are addressing this over worried dem party with an email and news release soon.

Their Dem message is that in every life we have some trouble. But when you worry you make it double. Don’t worry

If this is true it at least shows that the Dems are taking the polls seriously.

Calling Cheney POTUS lets Bush Jr off the hook. He is a textbook bold criminal sociopath. Every dime he ever made involved a crime. until he took up painting. He was bold and no patriot: he was the very embodiment of the "new feudalism" attitude.

Actually R151 George W. Bush was just another Nepo Baby.

Like all the others in this world, who get ahead thanks to who their parents are.

R152

Those who have done so well in life often assume it’s them and their talent that did it. Most of the time for most of us born of middle class parents, often white middle class parents, into a stable country , are successes because we were lucky with parents. We start out with so many advantages.

Another endorsement for Trump. I smell a Trump win next election.

A few thoughts on the Polls:

1. Presidents often have low approval ratings at the end of their 3rd year. Larry Sabato recently engaged in an analysis of this factor. However, Biden's approval ratings right now are lower than those of Obama or many other Presidents in their 3rd year. Biden is almost as low as where Jimmy Carter was.

2. Biden is struggling on several metrics against Trump. Trump is beating Biden on the economy, on the age/fitness for office question, and even on foreign policy/standing in the world. One of the only categories Biden is beating Trump on right now is the respect for democracy question.

3. It's not that Trump is getting more popular -- he has very low approval ratings himself and a majority of the country don't want him to run again, either. And there are places where he is more unpopular than Biden. Eg. this week's New Hampshire poll by UNH shows Trump is 10 points more unpopular in that state than Biden is.

4. The overall problem is that Biden is entering 2024 in a weaker position than he was in during 2020. As Harry Enten discussed recently, during 2020, Biden did not trail Trump in any National polls. Going into 2024, Biden now trails Trump in multiple National polls.

5. National polls do not determine the Electoral College, but they are an indicator of the way the swing states may vote. Because of the disproportionate advantage that Republicans have in the EC, Democrats usually need to be well ahead in the National popular vote in order to win. As we saw in 2016 & 2020, although Hillary and Biden won the popular vote by large margins, the race in the EC was much closer. So basically what that means is that if Trump is leading Biden nationally, it foreshadows problems in the swing states for Biden.

6. So yeah, we are looking at a tough fight in 2024 as things stand now. I am certainly feeling apprehensive about it. The months ahead will hopefully provide more data points for us to examine.

Thank you R155/Poll Troll!!!

That was an excellent breakdown of the situation.

We need more informed posters like you.

But republicans also may fake polls to persuade Biden not to run knowing that a replay of 2020 is unlikely to work in their favor.

R157

Fake polls to fool stupid Dems :-)

Please never forget that that Biden saved us from Trump. He was the only one who could have beat him. And he miraculously did (with a little help from Covid).

Why is the sky blue?

Please remember that it was FDR that saved us during WW2.

FDR 2024

“Stay With a Proven Winner”

R154, that lady will do anything for attention, even eat shit.

[quote] Trump is beating Biden on the economy, on the age/fitness for office question, and even on foreign policy/standing in the world.

Anyone who thinks that is a Fox-watching moron.

[quote]Anyone who thinks that is a Fox-watching moron.

Fox's influence is nothing compared to Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. People are influenced by social media more than Fox News.

More and more Latinos are going MAGA, and unabashedly so.

Right because Latin America is such a model of prosperity. It is the Latin model the republicans are importing.

TLDR or give a fuck.

[Quote] I read once that polling is done by calling people with landline phones.

any links from this century?

Because lack of education if glorified and celebrated in your country.

I was that little girl

We're doomed.

It's personal

[quote] Joe Biden is facing a near-historic deficit for an incumbent

Electoral analysts, myself included, like to cover our behinds. We use words like “may” and “could” to make sure we don’t get too far ahead of ourselves – especially when examining polls of a potential 2024 general election matchup between Joe Biden and Donald Trump.

But the truth is that Trump has a small but clear advantage over Biden right now. This makes Biden just the second president since scientific polling began to trail in his reelection bid at this point in the campaign.

Take a look at recent national surveys from CBS News/YouGov, CNN/SSRS, Fox News, Marquette University Law School and Quinnipiac University. All five are high-quality polls that meet CNN standards for publication.

All five give Trump an advantage of 2 to 4 points over Biden among registered or likely voters. On their own, none of these data points mean too much. Trump’s lead in all of them is within the margin of error. Averaged together, though, they paint a picture of an incumbent with a real problem.

Over the past 80 years, incumbents have, on average, led their eventual challengers by a little more than 10 points about a year out from the election. This includes nearly every incumbent for whom we have polling since Franklin Roosevelt in 1943.

It includes Barack Obama against Mitt Romney in November 2011. This is notable because a number of Democrats have tried to dismiss the current data showing Biden in trouble by saying that Obama had been behind at this point, too. That simply isn’t true.

In fact, the lone incumbent to be behind in the polls at this point is the man Biden succeeded and is likely to face again: Trump, who trailed Biden by about 10 points in November 2019.

That’s what makes Trump’s small polling edge right now so remarkable. He never had such an edge during the 2020 campaign. I’m not just talking about this point in the 2020 cycle. I’m talking about at any point. I’m also not just talking about a lead in the average. I’m talking about a lead in any national poll that meets CNN’s standards for publication over the entire 2020 cycle.

There have been 17 such surveys this cycle in which Trump scored a higher vote share than Biden.

The same is true in the swing states, where Trump has been ahead in at least one poll in states where he never led in 2020. These include Michigan, Nevada and Pennsylvania – all states that will be key in determining the next president.

The question, of course, is why is Biden having so much difficulty against a man he was able to defeat the last time.

It might be tempting to think that it’s because of a divide within the Democratic ranks. Specifically, that Biden is having issues with his party’s left wing, as reflected by the loud criticism of his handling of the Israel-Hamas war.

I don’t see that in the numbers. For example, Biden leads Trump 96% to 2% among very liberal voters in the latest Quinnipiac poll. He’s up 95% to 5% among this group in Marquette’s survey.

These numbers are, if anything, better than how he performed in 2020, according to the Pew Research Center’s report on validated voters. Biden won very liberal voters 92% to 6%.

Biden’s biggest decline is actually in the middle. He was ahead by a mere 12 points among moderates in Quinnipiac’s poll and by 18 points in Marquette’s survey. Fox had him up by 5 points. CNN put the margin at 17 points.

The Pew report from 2020 had him winning this bloc by 28 points. The exit polls had him winning moderates by 30 points. On average, we’re talking about a 15-point swing away from Biden.

In fact, ideology is probably the wrong way to explain why voters are shifting away from the president.

It could be the economy, an issue on which Biden is trailing Trump. But voters also preferred Trump to Biden on the economy by the end of the 2020 campaign.

Probably the best explanation for Biden’s troubles that I can come up with is age. More than perhaps any other indicator, the question of whether Biden is too old to be president has changed the most from 2020.

Consider the New York Times/Siena College polls released earlier this month from the six closest states Biden won: Georgia, Arizona, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Michigan. A massive 71% of registered voters in those states said Biden was too old to be an effective president. A majority of every group listed in the crosstabs of the poll said so, including 51% of Democrats.

Back in 2020, half that percentage of registered voters (36%) said Biden was too old to be an effective president.

The fact that so many voters feel Biden is too old makes sense given that he is the oldest president ever.

Now, Biden could win this campaign if he can convince enough voters that his opponent is too old for the job as well. After all, Trump would also be the oldest president ever to win election.

Biden’s problem, though, is that a mere 39% of voters believe Trump is too old for the job.

If Biden is able to get that number up, don’t be surprised if the polls begin to shift. But if he can’t, Trump could become the first president since Grover Cleveland to be elected to nonconsecutive terms.

Biden's problem is also immigration and the border, crime, inflation and 2 conflicts that the US is supporting with tax 💲💲💲

R121 I don't agree. And apparently many Democrats don't either. We will have to wait and see but you are kidding yourself if you think Democrat leadership aren't having conversations.

Given the results of the last two election cycles, I’d say the margin of error is much greater than 2.8% like they claim.

I don't get it.

If Biden is so unpopular then why do Dems keep winning, winning, winning year end and out?

Biden is going to lose next November. And we Democrats will have no one to blame but ourselves for not making Grampa earn the nomination in the primary this spring (which he would lose). I will never vote for Joe in the primary. I am staying home in protest. And for the idiots on this thread saying Joe can't lose against the GOP nominee---that's what they said about Hillary in 2016.

The only idiot here is you, R179

R181 = Still has a Hillary 2016 sign in his yard. Grampa Joe is going to drag us all down in November 2024. Then, after he loses on November 5, 2024, he is going to give a "this is how democracy works" speech and wander off the stage. Leaving the rest of us horrified by what rights we will lose next after the Republicans take over again.

and what rights are those R181do you suppose?

He had a registered gun and was on his property. Talk about rights R181

R179 you are a brainless fool

R184 You know Joe is going to never become president for a second term. We all know it. Be mad at the wimps like Pete and Whitmer and Newsome who didn't have the guts to run against Grampa Joe. We might retain the Senate next year (barely) but we sure aren't going to have the White House.

Not realistic. Republican paid to lie.

R185 = If you really believe that you are an idiot. Are Steve K and NBC Republicans too? You better wake up and smell the numbers. Biden ain't winning.

You better wake up and smell the lies. Noboody thinks the Republicans are competent to run the country. Every single one of them is a corrupt and massive liar with no program to help anyone.

Other than Putin of course.

A few other factors to watch/ponder:

1. Democrats have won the popular vote in 7 of the last 8 Presidential elections. It is very unusual that Trump is ahead in the National polls at this time, given that he lost the popular vote by millions in 2016 & 2020. How likely is it that he would win the popular vote in 2024?

2. No President except Grover Cleveland has won 2 non-consecutive terms. Can Trump make history and become only the 2nd President in history to do that?

3. Some polling indicates that if Trump were convicted of a criminal offence before the Election, a certain percentage of voters would switch back from Trump to Biden. But is a criminal conviction likely before the next Election?

The poll in question asked 1,500 voters, not a statistically significant sample.

The ones who think that Newsom would be the solution of the problem really live in the parallel universe. Newsome embodies everything that is alienating the people that would normally prefer liberal to conservative politics.

His incestuous relationship with big business at the expense of middle class and low income people and the impotence to ensure the most basic order and safety from crime (to put it mildly) in Californian cities makes him thousand times worse candidate than Biden.

R188 was in a coma in 2016. TRUMP was the ultimate "TOO INCOMPETENT to run the country". And he won. I think a year from now Trump will either be in jail or in exile (probably in Saudi Arabia). But Nikki Haley has a shot at beating Biden.

Thank you R90 Poll Troll. Thank you for some context. Hurry up, conviction!

* I meant R190

Niki Haley has no chance of beating anyone. When things get rough she disappears.

Republicans have always favored big business over small.

Gavin on the other hand offered AB150 as small business relief.

They’re all stupid on both sides. For different reasons.

[quote]You better wake up and smell the lies. Noboody thinks the Republicans are competent to run the country. Every single one of them is a corrupt and massive liar with no program to help anyone.

And if Americans weren't "so fucking stupid," as OP puts it, we'd have nothing to worry about.

Unfortunately, here we are.

It's religion. People believe the fairytales and don't dig any deeper. You'll ask them if they ever read and they'll say, "The Bible!".

R202

You don’t go around asking stranger people what they read and they don’t respond with The Bible. It’s one of those made up statements that people do on DL all the time to make a point.. A lie.

I see people all the time in airports with books to read, almost never is it the Bible.

R202 What a weird thing to lie about!

[quote] You better wake up and smell the numbers.

The only number that are going to matter are the votes in 2024. These polls are BS and the election is still a year away.

R205

I speak from experience

A year for an 81 yo is like a life time in dog years It’s about 10 years in Gen Z years. Things could improve for biden aka Trump facing the voters it’s also very possible for things to get worse.

The Dems seem to have no plan B. The gop does.

[quote]The poll in question asked 1,500 voters, not a statistically significant sample.

It actually is, R191, especially if it's used in the aggregate. It's the drill-downs you should be concerned about. The 6-state poll (IIRC) had 36XX respondents, which divided by the 6 states in question, boils down to 600/state, which is definitely not enough. In addition, they did not oversample minorities, so then they have to weight the smaller samples of the minority groups separately, which makes each of those opinions worth more when you look at the aggregate. So that particular poll I would put no stock in whatsoever.

I took a field in public opinion polling at UCONN (see attached link) back in the 90s, and even then, writing unbiased questions, doing the actual polling, and working with survey data was a lot more complicated than you'd think -- and that was before cell phones and spam filters made it even more complicated.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, in spite of all the things that pollsters are trying to do to compensate for the deficits, the vast majority of polls are highly inaccurate. But I haven't worked in this field since 2008, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt as well.

[quote] You better wake up and smell the lies. Noboody thinks the Republicans are competent to run the country. Every single one of them is a corrupt and massive liar with no program to help anyone.

Here, R188.

Watch this, in case you have memory loss about 2016.

What people like you fail to understand is that you cannot force OTHER voters to vote the way you do.

And regardless of what you think, the American voting public is very UNPREDICTABLE.

[quote] Claire McCaskill Flags Part Of Trump-Biden Polls That Makes Her 'Stomach Hurt'

Former Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) suggested President Joe Biden is being underestimated, but said it still alarms her that so many poll respondents are willing to say “out loud” that they would vote for Donald Trump.

On “Morning Joe” Monday, the MSNBC political analyst weighed in on a new NBC News poll that showed the former president leading President Joe Biden by 2% in a hypothetical matchup.

Host Joe Scarborough dismissed the result with a “yawn” and criticized Democrats for catastrophizing, noting that polls proved unreliable in 2020.

McCaskill said it’s the story of Biden’s career to be underestimated.

However, she argued, “There’s one thing these polls are good for, and that is making sure that nobody in the Biden campaign takes any segment of our votes for granted.”

She called on the campaign to improve its messaging to Black and brown voters and young people, to highlight what’s at stake on hot button issues such as abortion, gun control, LGBTQ+ rights, climate change and book bans.

But there was one difficult thing that she said “we have to admit.”

“We see Donald Trump as so completely unacceptable — a mentally deranged, narcissistic, dangerous, horrible man that only knows selfishness,” she said.

“The idea that anybody would be voting for him freaks all of us out. So the fact that there are this many that are saying it out loud to somebody, even though it is anonymously, is enough to just make your stomach hurt.”

Trump has been indicted on a total of 91 felony counts across four criminal indictments since March. He was also found liable in two separate civil cases this year. In May, he was found by a New York jury to have raped writer E. Jean Carroll in 1996. In September, a judge ruled that he had committed fraud for years while running his real estate empire in the state.

Still, Trump is the clear front-runner for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination, and was found to be ahead of Biden in five swing states in recent New York Times/Siena College polls.

NBC News’ latest poll, released Sunday, found Biden trailing Trump for the first time, receiving 44% and 46% of support respectively, due to a dip in support for Biden.

Republicans continuing in their quest to rig the system:

Claire's analysis at R209 is spot-on.

She summarized the situation so perfectly.

Any time Joe Biden speaks it is a disaster. He is TOO OLD to lead our country.

Donald Trump is absolutely a disaster and a criminal who should be in jail.

Give us a choice....give us a fucking choice........

Trump will win. Get over it. Its not even that big of deal, its only four years anyway.

Eat dead aardvark cunt, R213.

R213 you do realize that if Trump wins there will be no more elections. No more Congress. No more Medicare or Social Security. Martial law every day. You might be put in a concentration camp for life. As Trump will remain president for life and then Ivanka or Don Jr. will take over.

R215 haha are you serious? you are being very dramatic. none of that will happen. it will just be similar to his first term.

you'll survive, don't worry.

R216 Oh my sarcasm must be lost on you.

R217 Oh ok. some can get really hysterical when it comes to politics so its hard to know when someone is serious.

[quote] it will just be similar to his first term

Are you an idiot?

Trump HIMSELF has said that if he gets a second term, there will be arrests and imprisonment for his enemies (and he has a long list), and mass deportations.

The reason he wants a second term is because he learned a lot during his first term about what he can get away with.

He tested the Constitution in his first term, and pushed it to the limits, culminating in the near overthrow of our legitimately elected government on January 6, 2021.

Have you not paid attention to ANY of the hearings in the past two years?

TRUMP WILL BECOME A DICTATOR!

[quote] Trump has big plans for a second term. Critics say they pose a threat to democracy.

Former President Donald Trump’s campaign is developing plans to use the federal government to punish his political opponents if he wins a second term next year, and critics — including some prominent Republicans, even some staffers from his first term — say these plans would imperil American democracy.

On the campaign trail, Trump has made numerous public references to exacting revenge upon detractors and rivals, including promising to appoint a special prosecutor to “go after” President Biden for unspecified crimes. Earlier this month, in a speech and in a post on Truth Social, he referred to left-wing Americans as “vermin.”

Historians said such dehumanizing of one’s political opponents is frequently used by fascist dictators. Trump campaign spokesperson Steven Cheung responded by saying, “Those who try to make that ridiculous assertion are clearly snowflakes grasping for anything because they are suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome and their entire existence will be crushed when President Trump returns to the White House.”

According to the Washington Post, Trump has privately said he would direct the Department of Justice to investigate officials from his first term who have since criticized his tenure, including:

Former White House chief of staff and retired U.S. Marine Corps Gen. John F. Kelly

Former Attorney General William P. Barr

Former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Mark A. Milley

Former Trump White House special counsel Ty Cobb

According to his advisers, Trump intends to fire up to tens of thousands of career government professionals and replace them with his allies, and ​​will refuse to spend congressional appropriations on programs he opposes.

The New York Times has reported that Trump’s plans to crack down on illegal immigration will include:

Using military funds to erect detention camps

Using a public-health emergency law to shut down asylum requests at the border

Ending birthright citizenship for babies born in the U.S. to undocumented immigrants

Trump also reportedly plans to send the military into Mexico to combat drug cartels, with or without the Mexican government’s permission.

A number of high-profile Republican elected officials, conservative legal scholars and veterans of Trump’s first term in office have said Trump’s intentions would weaken the justice system and threaten the rule of law. Here are some of the most notable criticisms:

“He cannot be the next president, because if he is, all of the things that he attempted to do, but was stopped from doing by responsible people around him at the Department of Justice, at the White House Counsel’s Office, all of those things, he will do. There will be no guardrails.”

“His policies are not centered around improving the lives of his supporters or Americans in general, it’s centered around consolidating power for Trump, and that way he can wield it to enact that revenge on anyone he deems as an enemy. And that is what is scary.”

“I am more worried for America today than I was on January 6. … [Trump’s] election would be catastrophic for America’s democracy.”

“Making prosecutorial decisions in a nonpartisan manner is essential to democracy. The White House should not be meddling in individual cases for political reasons.”

“He doesn’t think in policy directions when he makes decisions, certainly in the national security space. It’s all connected with how things benefit Donald Trump. … In a second Trump term, we’d almost certainly withdraw from NATO.”

“Donald Trump represents a failure of character, which is changing, I think, in many respects, the psyche of our nation and the heart of our nation. And that's something which takes a long time — if ever — to repair."

tRump has stated his intentions, and R219 and R220 have listed them in detail. All that this POS cares about is revenge; it consumes him and it impels him forward.

On the other hand, the droves of sycophants he will bring with him probably don’t care one bit about his petty and nonsensical grievances. BUT, they will use the opportunity that tRump provides them with to dismantle many of the federal government programs that they have hated and despised for decades. If they have the WH, the House, and the Senate, they will privatize Social Security and get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. For starters. They already have the Supreme Court, which, if unchanged in the next year, will rubber stamp every crackpot scheme they dream up.

This will not just be “another four years.” They have set out their plans and those plans sound frighteningly horrendous. Voting for Cheatolini is insanity.

I've said it before I'll say it again - 'Idiocracy' is the best of the possible outcomes before us. I'm seeing some serious Handmaids Tale meets Nickleback meets Civil War type shit in our immediate future because people now live to embrace their inner asshole and be as big of d-bags as they can be and will throw whatever shit they can at reasons to not vote for Biden if at all and run with it. I will fight like hell to get him reelected but i do not see a path as things stand today. Plus Putin, Plus Nutty Muslims, all sorts of other crazy potential. It just looks bleak.

You are getting hysterical, Trump can't really become a dictator, not because of strong institutions, but because the big business which is actually ruling the country is mostly liberal and they would obstruct him in any possible way, like they did in his first term.

The most of propaganda machinery is in the liberal hands, except for the small percentage owned by Murdoch, they have mainstream media is in the hands of liberals, they have installed "progressive" DAs. There would be many riots and unrests, they would unleash Antifa, "progressive" students and the likes. Imagine if Trump was in the office now backing Israel, the riots would be worse than after George Floyd killings. Since Biden is in the office, the protests are rather mild.

And if he dared ending the proxy war in Ukraine, defense contractors would give him hell.

Clearly, R223 is a MAGA Trumper.

The language you use is a tell-tale sign.

You need to be blocked, deleted, and cancelled, you ignorant motherfucker.

R224 I wanted to reassure you and you are yelling slurs at me.

R225

You are so wrong. Really wrong. This time and the last time you posted this nonsense.

That aside what the fuck is wrong with weak ass anti debate anti exchange of views different than your own morons who would want to block, delete, cancel you? How simpering weak is that?

These youngsters many of them who whine at DL here have grown up in bubbles . They have no clue how to debate unless it’s with someone who totally agrees with them.

[quote]the big business which is actually ruling the country is mostly liberal

[quote]most of propaganda machinery is in the liberal hands

[quote]they have mainstream media is in the hands of liberals

R223? Are you fucking nuts??? Since when is Big Business liberal? The whole idea of Big Business is synonymous with Republican.

Jeff Bezos just hired a Murdoch guy to run the WaPo. CNN has gone to the right.

Eh, fuck it. It's not even worth engaging with this troll.

R228, the person at R223 is clearly a right-wing troll trying to blame "liberals" for everything

Just do what R224 said.

The trolls are so transparent. Anyone telling you not to worry or that you’re being “hysterical” is an obvious troll. This one really takes the cake, trying to say that liberals control the media. Just, wow.

OP maybe many voters don't agree with the Biden administration when it comes to identifying the greatest threat to homeland security

Someone should tell Cheatolini’s former White House counsel that he’s just being hysterical.

Another factor happening right now is that this is a difficult time to be an incumbent political leader. There is a lot of anger and dissatisfaction out there across the Western world and it's reflected in the polls in several countries right now:

USA -> Biden is obviously having a tough time in the polls

Canada -> DL fave Justin Trudeau is at an-all time polling low

France -> DL fave Emmanuel Macron is also struggling

UK -> Conservative PM Rishi Sunak has been way down in the polls for months

R231 Joe have just forgotten to mention who is the white supremacist, few destitute trailer park drunkards waiving the confederate flag or president and his administration who are supporting the regime killing more than 13000 civilians in bombardments.

Would you like to try that again - in ENGLISH - this time, R234?

Sorry R235 but R234 is probably posting from Moscow or Peking.

Trolls don't speak English very well.

Hahaha, girlies care more about purity of English than the mass slaughter they help financing.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

^ Look who just won in the Netherlands. The formerly very liberal Netherlands.

Well, scratch the Netherlands off the list of possible refuges if Trump wins next year.

NTY: "The Netherlands on Wednesday took a startling turn in national elections with the potential to ripple through Europe, as Dutch voters threw most support behind the party of a far-right icon with an incendiary reputation who had campaigned on an anti-immigrant platform."

The same will happen in France at the next election.

The left, with their brown peoples fixation, fucked around and found out.

Next Thanksgiving will be filled with dread. We Dems will lose the White House and very possibly lose the Senate. Biden isn't overcoming the Immigration Misery and next summer will be worse than this past record breaking numbers.. Or the endless wars that cost money but aren't won. The final straw will be how the poor are even poorer and with every trip to the grocery store they know another 4 years of Grampa Joe isn't going to make things better.

OR

We communicate that every vote counts and make every fucker in this country understand what is at stake

I wish everyone would watch this video, and LISTEN to her, all the way to the end. LISTEN dammit! It's IMPORTANT!

[quote]they know another 4 years of Grampa Joe isn't going to make things better.

What people need to grasp, is that the next 4 years (or more) under GOP rule will be SO MUCH WORSE.

This country may never recover.

Democrat here. But this fucking flow of immigrants is ridiculous. We can't deal with our own homeless population and we are putting up bordercrossers in hotels in New York and Chicago? Seriously? What about our homeless vets living on the streets? If I have to see another Immigrant Dad with 6 kids telling a reporter he wants "a better life". We ALL want a fucking better life.

[quote] Democrat here. But this fucking flow of immigrants is ridiculous. We can't deal with our own homeless population and we are putting up bordercrossers in hotels in New York and Chicago? Seriously? What about our homeless vets living on the streets? If I have to see another Immigrant Dad with 6 kids telling a reporter he wants "a better life". We ALL want a fucking better life.

Then by all means, vote for Trump, dumbass R246.

Just like the stupid fucking Europeans are all voting for right-wing governments.

Because yeah, it'll be so much better under a right-wing regime.

Just see Hitler, Mussolini, and Trump 2017-2021 for evidence of wonderful right-wing governance.

I swear, people deserve the shit governments they get, because they're so goddamned fucking STUPID..

R247 = Why are you so obsessed with Trump? He hasn't been in office for years. Did you not know that? I said nothing about him.

R248, are you fucking STUPID? Because if you aren't voting for Biden, you're likely to get him AGAIN. DUH.

Dems should go to the right of Republicans in the campaign, particularly on immigration and fiscal conservatism.

No, R250.

"No" in theory but, yes, R251

Shit like DeSantis tripling the salary for the president of the college he stole, Joe Manchin's wife being appointed to a board, MTG and Boebert getting paid anything at all...

So much of the bogus culture wars and the assault on things like "forever wars" is the right disguising--and elevating--their cronyism as essential.

As a nation, we could fully fund WIC to feed hungry school children if we stop allowing Gym Jordan and James Comer to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars chasing Hunter's dick pics.

Maybe Democrats should run someone whose poll numbers are better or who is more popular?

Name someone, R255.

Someone with experience. Who would have the full-throated support of the Democratic base that turns out to vote. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Eh, no I won't. There is no one. Democrats polled support Biden by almost 70%, no other name comes close.

So go have a seat. Democrats are not going to give away the advantage of incumbency, nor are they going to bail on the most successful, qualified, experienced, decent, and good President in modern times.

[quote] So go have a seat. Democrats are not going to give away the advantage of incumbency, nor are they going to bail on the most successful, qualified, experienced, decent, and good President in modern times.

In other words, going down with the ship.

R254 this guy Bill the Mayo in his tweet shows exactly what is wrong about Democrats that will make them lose the election. Negativa labeling, projecting, spitting offences, while acting as superior snob who despises greasy Big Mac eating trash, cause of course he eats sushi. Guy lives in his upper clasd bubble and doesn't notice he is over.

R256 The party (led behind the scenes by puppet master Obama) shouldn't have manipulated Biden into the Presidency in the first place. They were so afraid of Americans electing someone who was going to take big money out of politics, and use tax dollars to fund something to help give Americans a better life, rather than funneling it into supporting the military-industrial complex and endless wars. (And they got a disgraceful Secretary Of Transportation into the bargain by bribing Pete to drop out and endorse Biden.)

Now they're stuck with the feeble-minded warmonger who isn't polling ahead of a candidate with 90+ indictments - and you say there's no one better. You sit down.

R259 is a tin-hat conspiracy theorist.

Obama didn't choose Biden. VOTERS did.

You are so full of shit. I can't believe anyone is dumb enough to believe the shit you just typed.

[quote] This week Jan 6 defendants' daughter asked judge for leniency, saying parents are "being fed a constant IV drip of lies, misinfo., well-edited but completely bogus videos that painted the same picture: The world was out to get them..& only person there to protect them was..Trump"

[quote] Their daughter continued, by telling judge that the misinformation comes "From sitting Congress members, to hosts of the highest rated cable TV channel in the country, to the very person they trusted most, the same man currently on pace to be the Republican nominee again in 2024"

[quote] "My parents are good people to their core, but they fell deep into the conspiracy theory rabbit hole that has swallowed up millions of Americans over the last decade"

[quote] The polls keep getting worse for Biden

President Joe Biden's poll numbers keep getting worse.

November started with New York Times/Siena College polls showing Trump ahead in four of the six swing states, but more indicators of Biden's electoral peril soon followed. The president’s standing in head-to-head matchups with Trump is falling: Among the latest surveys this month from 13 separate pollsters, Biden’s position is worse than their previous polls in all but two of them.

And while polls suggest most of the movement comes from voters abandoning Biden — who might become undecided but not swing to supporting Trump — the Republican has also started to gain steam. Trump’s vote share in the national polling average is higher now than at any point in the past year.

The state-level data are just as striking: In addition to those New York Times/Siena polls, within the last week and a half, other surveys have shown Trump ahead by 8 points in Arizona and 5 points up in Michigan.

Biden's recent slide — and his political predicament some 11 months before Election Day — represent a confluence of slippage with reliable Democratic constituencies like young voters, the outbreak of war in the Middle East and the rise of independent and third-party candidates who could siphon votes from both Biden and Trump.

This week’s NBC News poll had a stunning result: Trump led Biden among voters younger than 35, 46 percent to 42 percent.

Even though that was well within the high margin of error for such a small subgroup, other polls also show a close race with what has been a reliable Democratic constituency. Biden had only single-digit leads among voters 18-34 in polls this month from Morning Consult (Biden +2), Fox News (Biden +7) and Quinnipiac University (Biden +9). (Trump led Biden in all four polls among all voters.)

Only a few polls show Biden with a lead among young voters that approaches his 2020 margins, but they are the exception, not the rule.

That’s prompted a debate over whether Trump is really making the deep inroads with younger voters the polling suggests — or if those numbers are an artifact of some kind of polling bias. One popular theory speculates that liberal younger voters who are unenthusiastic about Biden and his party — over his administration’s support for Israel in its war with Hamas, for example — aren’t participating in polls right now, even if many of them will vote for him next November.

But Biden, the oldest president in history, has never polled well with younger voters. And telephone polls — of the four mentioned above, all but Morning Consult were conducted over the phone — are a difficult way to reach younger voters.

Biden’s sagging margins against Trump are one thing. But there are two other trendlines under the hood of these polls that spell trouble for the incumbent.

First, his approval rating — already historically low for a president at this point in his first term — has been ticking down. Biden’s approval rating dipped down to 38 percent in FiveThirtyEight’s average earlier this month, the lowest since July 2022. Similarly, when Biden hit 40 percent in RealClearPolitics’ average this month, it was his lowest reading since August 2022.

Meanwhile, Trump’s numbers are rising. Dating back a little more than a year, RealClearPolitics’ average has had Trump hovering between 42 percent and 46 percent in a head-to-head matchup with Biden. Not only did Trump break 46 percent for the first time earlier this month, this week he inched above 47 percent, about equal to his vote share in the 2020 election.

Most of the polls that show Trump with a majority of the vote don’t include undecided voters — a questionable methodological decision this far out from Election Day, especially in a hypothetical race between two candidates so disliked by the electorate. But even polls that do report undecided voters show Trump ticking up, like the Fox News survey, which had Trump with a slight lead over Biden, 50 percent to 46 percent.

It’s common to try attributing any change in a president’s poll numbers to recent news events, such as Israel’s war with Hamas. But for Biden, the reality is a little more complicated.

FiveThirtyEight’s average shows a fairly steady decline in Biden’s approval rating dating back to May. RealClearPolitics’ goes back to April.

Meanwhile, Trump’s average favorable rating has actually been steadily increasing over the past two months, rising from 39 percent on Sept. 1 to 42 percent as of Wednesday afternoon, according to FiveThirtyEight.

The bad news for Biden isn’t confined to the national polls. And that’s despite a three-month-long advertising campaign to boost the president’s numbers.

Since mid-August, Biden and the Democratic National Committee have spent about $12 million on swing state TV ads, according to the tracking firm AdImpact. For most of the fall, Biden spent about $1 million a week, though that’s been roughly cut in half for the past few weeks.

It isn’t helping. In addition to the New York Times/Siena polls showing Trump leading Biden in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada and Pennsylvania, Trump led Biden in six of seven swing states surveyed by Morning Consult and Bloomberg News.

There were also some eye-popping results in other Biden-won states from 2020. Trump was ahead by 8 points last week in a Noble Predictive Insights poll in Arizona and by 5 points in an EPIC-MRA poll in Michigan.

One of the most striking things about the daunting poll numbers for Biden is that they come in head-to-head matchups with Trump — and don’t include the third-party candidates who could draw even more votes from the president.

Many pollsters don’t yet include matchups with independent candidates like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Cornel West or Green Party candidate Jill Stein, so there’s little evidence right now to measure their impact. Trump’s lead over Biden in RealClearPolitics’ averages is smaller when Kennedy is added but slightly larger when West and Stein are also included. Those mixed signals mean it’s too early to say exactly how independent and third-party candidates will change the electoral math for Biden and Trump.

But it’s clear Biden’s deficit is not a result of third-party candidates running — or those potentially looming, like retiring Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.). And they could make it harder for Biden to recover, especially if the independent candidates gobble up significant shares of support among groups like young voters.

It ain't fittin', it just ain't fittin!

R262/R263 is so heavily invested in people hating Joe Biden that he's posted that same crap article in multiple threads.

Well guess what, asshat? Part of the reason Biden is polling lower than he should be is exactly this kind of media hit job. The media -- owned by wealthy Republicans who want to elect Republicans to cut their own taxes and who hate Democrats because they help working people and want the wealthy to pay their fair share -- have it out for Biden and Democrats, and are refusing to report on his successes and accomplishments, and fall all over themselves to report on every possible rumor of a scandal or to spin everything he does in the most negative way possible.

And dumbass masses eat it up and believe it.

R265 why are you lying to yourself. The onla media close to Republicans i Murdoch's. Mainstream media is mostly liberal and close to Democrats.

But mainstream media is not important with young voters, they are getting info on social media. As for older voterd, they too tend to belive media less. Inflation is high, wages are low, middle class is destroyed. Only upper class remains faithful to Democrats.

The key here is that young voters are leaving in droves.

What is the Biden campaign doing to get them back?

R266, you're so full of shit and propaganda it's not even funny.

Know what inflation was in October month over month? ZERO. Too high my ass. Inflation has been lower in this country than in most any other developed nation. Yeah, inflation sucks, but over HALF of the high prices were corporate price gouging. Ask yourself why nearly every company is reporting record profits lately.

And wages have been increasing faster than inflation for the last year, so fuck off what that nonsense too.

And you honestly think "most media" is close to democrats? Then why do they only have Republicans on, why do they endlessly bash Democrats and completely fail to cover Biden/Harris accomplishments? Because they're OWNED BY REPUBLICAN AND LIBERTARIAN BILLIONAIRES. That includes CNN. It's not just FOX News, dumbass. The right wing OWNS the media. Google Sinclaire to see how that right wing asshole bought up all local news stations across the country to push right-wing propaganda.

Stop believing the lies you're being fed. Jesus.

[quote]The key here is that young voters are leaving in droves. What is the Biden campaign doing to get them back?

Young people are only shooting themselves in the foot. It's THEIR future, THEIR environment, THEIR climate, THEIR civil rights that will all be taken from them if the GOP gets back in power. Their lives and futures will be destroyed and THEY will have to live with the consequences.

I'm only around for another decade tops, best guess. It'll suck to see everything start to collapse, but I won't be around for the worst of it. THEY will.

THEY have the choice to avoid that fate, and if they're too stupid, too gullible, too selfish & self-absorbed, too myopic, and too self-defeating & ignorant to prevent it by voting for Biden and Democrats against the fascist white supremacist criminally corrupt GOP? Well, they'll deserve everything they get, and get taken from them.

I'm not going to beg these people to do the right thing for themselves, for their friends & family, for vulnerable people and minorities, for their country, for their environment, for the climate, for their future... it's THEIR responsibility. I know I'll be doing the right thing by them. If they still insist on slitting their own throats, so be it I guess.

[quote] It'll suck to see everything start to collapse, but I won't be around for the worst of it. THEY will.

[quote] THEY have the choice to avoid that fate, and if they're too stupid, too gullible, too selfish & self-absorbed, too myopic, and too self-defeating & ignorant to prevent it by voting for Biden and Democrats against the fascist white supremacist criminally corrupt GOP? Well, they'll deserve everything they get, and get taken from them.

[quote] I'm not going to beg these people to do the right thing for themselves, for their friends & family

You know what I think is weird about this?

I actually think that GenZ would enjoy protesting Donald Trump, more than having it easy with Biden.

It's as if they live for the attention of protesting, for protesting's sake.

Probably because it'll get them more views on Instagram and TikTok.

This ^ touches on a hot take that I have (but am not married to--feel free to change my mind) that a lot of the Democratic/Biden activists (Victor Shi, JofromJerz, Brian Tyler Cohen) don't fundamentally sound a lot different than the other side save for topics selected (environment vs. Hunter's junk, for example). In a sense it's like a Lincoln vs. Douglass debate exercise where you have to argue, and win, the side you're given irrespective of what you actually believe. You could remove the candidate/position/spin and play MadLibs by inserting the adversary and, to the passing ear, it still sounds legitimate.

So often we want the Democrats to fight dirty just like the Repubs. but what we get out of it is muddied waters that make it hard for the young people--especially those who aren't being taught legitimate history--to make a distinction between the sides because they're polished with the same cloth (which, unfortunately may have come out of the likes of Cardi B...)

That's a hard circle to square and I don't have any answers. Making people's lives measurably better doesn't seem to be helping when the good can't be distinguish from the bad faith actors who will continually move the goalposts.

And, further weighting the issue is ppl like leftist Glaude who wakes up every morning and blasts out retweets of fear propaganda and has spent month after month after month spoon feeding progressives reasons to not support the administration (student loan relief, criminal justice reform, etc.) but then does an about face and expects his acolytes to turn with him. But, just as the Berners are fuming at St. Bernard because he supports Israel over their new cause-of-the-day, the kids are more than willing and able to just throw that shit right back into his face.

People are idiots. That's why they need organizations which m ediate between them and society. Unions, immigrant centers, all the things that used to teach people what's what politically have vanished. All people know about now are what they see on t.v. which is the systematic character assassination of anyone on the left and nothing on the people people of the right and what they really plan for society. And that's is why we need to ORGANIZE.

I miss the old days when old men in smoke-filled rooms picked the candidates instead of the idiot mobs who hang on demagogues' words.

I have an older friend who considers herself very far left, who works with several hard-line black liberation organizations. She has always said that the ideal form of government is a monarchy. I used to just laugh at her ridiculousness, but after 25 years, I'm starting to come around. With universal suffrage, the stupidest of the stupid are deciding who will be governing us. Democracy is a failure.

Populists are idiots, whether Left Populists (Bernie Bros and the DSA Rose Brigade) or Right Populists (Trumpsters and the like).

Left Populists are not progressive, which is why making actual progress seems to piss them off so much.

Right Populists are not conservative, which is why Republicans these days don't seem interested in CONSERVING anything. Or even taking a slow and measure approach. Nope, it's all about cruelty and bullying.

In both cases, it's all very performative.

Democrats are literally the only sane ones left.

There are several unusual historic aspects about the 2024 Presidential Election that are making it different from any other:

1) The oldest President in history is running for re-election at age 81.

2) The former President is trying to become the first President in modern history to win 2 non-consecutive terms, something that no one has done except Grover Cleveland.

3) The former President is under multiple criminal charges and will be spending part of the 2024 campaign making court appearances.

4) The same 2 Presidential nominees have not run against each other in 2 back-to-back elections since Dwight Eisenhower and Adlai Stevenson faced off against each other in both 1952 & 1956.

Any idea on who those (very interesting) stats might favor, R279?

A 3rd party upset

R280

A 3rd party upset has about a 0% chance of happening.

America not electing an old white man challenge.

R282

Trump who much of the country hates wins the gop Biden who is very unpopular and as young people always complain about is old. Really old.

Romney and a half way decent VP and a lot of people who hate trump and hate the left or just don’t want Joe would vote for them.

Many on DL would.

They might not win but they would make it one crazy interesting race. Romney considered a run already but decided against so at to not hurt Biden .

If biden keeps sinking Romney because more likely.

Biden's not "sinking".

Trump is not "winning".

Third Parties are NOT VIABLE.

R285

You forgot to add that there is also not a chance at all that Trump will beat Clinton.

Pass it on its 2016 calling.

Clinton got 3 million more votes in 2016, just saying.

She "lost" by fewer than 79k votes spread across three states (fewer than the number of people that attend a typical Ohio State Football home game). The number of people who voted for Jill Stein in those three states was three times Trump's margin of win. So you know. Given GOP cheating, stealing, voter suppression, and worse... it's arguable that Hillary Clinton DID win. She sure should have.

If GenZ decides to waste their votes and voices on 3rd parties or by staying home in 2024, they'll lose their entire future. Their rights, their democracy, their Constitution, their environment, their climate, their retirement, their healthcare, their safety & security. They'll be fucking themselves right good. Me? I'm old. I won't live to see the worst of the consequences of GenZ failing to do their job to defend their own futures, the lives & safety of vulnerable people & minorities, and our very Democracy.

[quote] WHY are Americans so fucking stupid?

$465

[...]

[quote] Advocates say Louisiana’s unapproved schools are a natural extension of the doctrine of parental rights.

[quote] Kitty Sibley Morrison says she is not selling diplomas, but rather lifetime services for homeschooling families.

[quote] “We’re not here to make money,” she said.

[quote] Yet a list of prices is taped to the front window of the school building: $250 for diploma services, a $50 application fee, $35 for a diploma cover and $130 to walk in a cap and gown at a ceremony.

[...]

[quote] In Sibley Morrison’s view, parents are the only people who get to decide if and when someone was sufficiently educated.

R288, there are public school systems issuing diplomas to kids who can’t read or write at a high school level. They don’t have a monopoly on issuing faux records of achievement.

It's what happens when a third of voters get their "news" from a non news infotainment network that feeds them crap that they want to pay to watch.

[quote] It's what happens when a third of voters get their "news" from a non news infotainment network that feeds them crap that they want to pay to watch.

MSNBC’s audience is not a third of voters.

He's not talking about MSNBC, dumbass, and you know it.

I am amazed at how sophisticated the Russian bots and trolls have evolved, r292.

Why then did he describe msnbc viewers R292?

He didn't, you daft moron.

So, what do we do guys? I'm talking to my gay Gen-X brothers out there. I'm 53. I hate Trump with the burning hot passion of a thousand suns.

To me, if Trump wins in 2024, the America I grew up in, that one that was so imperfect, but always had the potential to live up to great ideals is no more.

What then? What do we do? I think we're getting too old to take to the streets. Do those of us without real roots move out of the country? Or, do we try to make the best of a terrible situation? Try to do the best we can for our small corner of the world?

I always think of that famous picture of the elderly French gentleman crying as the Nazis marched into France. You can tell he's sorry he's lived so long. God, I hope it doesn't come to that.

Peace, brothers.

He wasn't that old R296.

I blame the internet: Trump is a viral president.

Just like all the anti trans MAGATS on DL.

R280, in theory, history should favor Biden in 2024 (other than on the age question perhaps), but so far it is not working out to be that simple. Presidential incumbency does not have as much power as it used to these days and the Trump factor has broken all the rules.

It's very difficult to predict anything about 2024 because of how unusual all of these circumstances are. I recently noticed that Allan Lichtman, the "never wrong" Professor who has accurately forecast every Presidential election since 1984 said that he isn't ready to make a prediction about 2024 yet, and that's probably very wise.

Romney is not likely at all.

I'd take Romney over Biden in a heartbeat if it meant keeping Trump out. The man is a menace.

I feel like an idiot for falling for all the overheated rhetoric against Romney in 2012. I'd still vote for Obama, but Romney isn't a fundamentaly bad person like Trump is.

And I like Biden just fine, but I'm very worried about his age. We're living in an era of worst case scenarios.

R297 thank you for that correction. I don't know why in my nind's eye he was older.

You are a fool then, R302.

Romney actually IS a fundamentally bad person. No core principles at all. An opportunist. An animal abuser. A sexist homophobe.

And why are you so worried about Biden's age? He has a very competent staff and VP. When I hear someone say "I'm concerned about Biden's Age" (in spite of there being no evidence it's actually been an issue at this point), all I hear is "I'm terrified of the possibility of a black woman President".

Unclench R296 You've allowed Trump to live in your head rent free for far too long.

[quote] but Romney isn't a fundamentally bad person like Trump is.

Romney being better than tRump is an extremely low bar, considering how many people could meet that standard. You’re attempting to rewrite history if you somehow think that Romney would have been an acceptable alternative to President Obama. True, he’s not tRump, and he opposes Cheatolini returning to the WH. But no one should be ready to canonize him based on his belated disgust of the Dotard. Had he been elected president, he would have done nothing different than any other Repuke would have done. The playbook for the Party of “No” hasn’t changed much in the last several decades, and it’s long on tax cuts and short on any meaningful policy proposals. Romney would have gone right along with standard GQP garbage.

R304 I disagree. Trump is a bad person. Romney is misguided and wrong. Trump would overturn democracy. Romney wouldn't. Call me names to your heats content, angry internet stranger.

Romney would crash the economy, cost jobs, enable the destruction of women's and LGBT+ rights, re-enforce the police state, persecute immigrants, etc. Just because he'd do so ever so slightly less overtly and badly than Trump doesn't make him good. And it's not about Romney anyway... all the people and organizations unleashed by having the GOP in control would double-down on the voter suppression, gerrymandering, and other shenanigans, that democracy would essentially die anyway. Google "Project 2050". That's not Trump's plan. That's the GOP'S plan. It happens regardless of who is in charge.

You're an idiot R302. Romney is evil and intelligent enough to accomplish something. That's a bad combination. Things are relatively well here because George Bush was lazy and Donald Trump an ignoramus. But the princples of evil are growing stronger all the time in the little pea-brains of the republicans.

R305 does not recall Romney bullying the press, but I do. He is no more an advocate for democracy than Putin is.

Romney only wants the APPEARANCE of supporting Democracy.

racial realignment happens between the parties, Biden leads only in the whitest of the six swinging states.

Trump performing historically well among Black and Hispanic voters in head-to-head matchups with President Biden, helping put him neck-and-neck with Biden in a way he rarely was during their 2020 matchup.

Black People who support Trump (or just won't vote for Biden, thereby effectively supporting Trump) are like Jews for Hitler: Utterly disgusting self-loathing, self-defeating morons slitting their own throats.

The stupidity is palpable.

One of the founders of the BLM explains why he is pro Trump.

R315, I can summarize it: "I'm ignorant, misinformed, self-hating, and stupid."

There.

I wouldn't call Americans stupid. I would say many are deluded into blaming all the wrong things for the problems in their lives, which forces many of them to vote against their best interests.

...which is STUPID.

Watching the video at R315 feels like going through the looking glass. The BLM founder Mark Fisher doesn’t really explain why he supports tRump other than a lot of mushy platitudes about him “telling it like it is” (welcome to 2015!) and that “he won’t stab you in the back.” 🙄😂😂

It’s unfortunate that we find ourselves back at this place with people blithely ignoring the massive record of tRump’s horrors as if we didn’t live under his misrule and chaos for four years. As if he hasn’t been indicted in four different jurisdictions for 91 felonies. Meanwhile they are happy to constantly and relentlessly nitpick every minor flaw with Joe Biden as if there is some equivalency between the two.

This is like watching the start of a disaster movie where you want to scream at the characters in the film that they are failing to see the very obvious danger looming right in front of them.

[quote] I wouldn't call Americans stupid. I would say many are deluded into blaming all the wrong things for the problems in their lives, which forces many of them to vote against their best interests.

THE MEDIA IS TO BLAME!!!

Have you ever watched cable and network news?

Always trashing Biden, and always talking about Trump.

CNN especially tries to give Republicans and Trump credibility, when they are the main cause of problems in the US.

But cable news needs ratings, and Trump brings them ratings.

50 or 60 years ago, Trump would have been completely dismissed and ignored because the media would not have given him the time of day.

In 2023, the media can't live without him.

Mitt Romney is 76 yrs old. No dice. We need someone younger.

The bigger a republic is, the easier it is for someone to fake its opinions. Isn't that the real issue? Republicans long ago ceased to be a mass party. They appeal only to the 1%, militarists, and religious crazies. Period. THey don't support any policies that would help ANYONE else. And yet we are constantly being told they are "leading" in the polls, that even though Dems got 20 million more votes in the Senate races, that they control the Senate because the country is secretly right-wing. Now we are being told blacks and Hispanics will vote for poeple who desire to hurt them. At some point you have to say, this is all a fraud. There is no red wave and never was.

R322

And yet in professional surveys those identifying as gop is just about the same as those that identify as dems—-25% each.

49% claimed to Gallup they were politically independent. In other surveys when you look at independents it breaks fairly evenly between left and lean right.

That guy who endorsed Trump is not, in fact, associated with BLM.

BLM tweeted today completely disavowing him and stating he has never ever been associated with the organization.

What a liar.

R270 Young people can't afford homes. One I know who wanted a home had to buy one 40 miles away from where she and her husband work. He works for Pfizer, she works as a teacher. They're 25. They cannot afford a house in the suburb where they grew up, near the city, and had to buy a home in a rural area in another state. They thought things would be better under the Democrats.

Young people were led to believe their student loan debt would be forgiven. Those who are not college grads or college bound were told the minimum wage would be raised. It's still under 8 dollars an hour. Those people vote too.

[quote]They thought things would be better under the Democrats.

Okay, I'm so sick of this stupid shit. Things ARE better under the Democrats. They'd be SO MUCH WORSE if Trump and the GOP were still in control.

CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION. It takes TIME to fix all the shit the GOP breaks, and the GOP continues to obstruct other attempts to make things better.

[quote]Young people were led to believe their student loan debt would be forgiven.

It literally HAS BEEN. For SO MANY. Over $120 BILLION in student loans forgiven, and counting. Literally everyone I know that still had onerous student loan debt has had it paid off now, or in one case, restructured so that the payments are tiny and the interest is zero, so they actually have a hope of paying it off, and doing so is no longer a burden.

[quote]Those who are not college grads or college bound were told the minimum wage would be raised.

Yeah, and the GOP blocked it (with Manchin and Sinema). Don't go blaming Democrats or Biden for that. Come on!

R325 comes along to prove the OP's point: AMERICANS ARE FUCKING STUPID if they're blaming all that on Biden and Democrats. BLITHERING IDIOTS. There's no other way to describe that level of self-defeating dumbness.

yes, Americans are fucking stupid. One dumb cunt I know is in the union and he supports trump! those Republicans are union busters!!! Unfortunately I have to deal with him regularly, and every time I do, I feel like my IQ drops a couple of points.

Biden's approval rating is definitely in the danger territory right now. He is below 40% approval. He will need to raise it a number of points in order to be re-elected in November 2024. As Ron Brownstein wrote in a piece recently, Presidents historically need to be at about 50% approval by Election Day in order to win re-election.

Biden has some time to get that number up, but it may be difficult to get it up to 50%. But as Brownstein pointed out, Biden may be able to win by a narrow margin even if he doesn't get all the way back up to 50% provided that Trump's own approval ratings remain down and provided that Biden can persuade enough voters who are unhappy with Biden's performance to still vote for him out of their disgust with Trump (as many did in 2022 & 2023).

PollTroll, are you British, Australian, or European?

R330, I am American, with dual Canadian citizenship. 🇺🇸 🇨🇦

I only asked R331 because you're usually up pretty late for anywhere in North America, so I just assumed you're either in Europe or Australia.

And I'm usually one of the few Americans still up at this hour.

In any case, your posts are always great and very informative! 😊

R332, thanks. 😊

Yes, I am often online late these days. I make my own hours at the moment and I sometimes find it relaxing to read my favorite websites before going to bed. I keep up to date on the latest political developments and set aside some time having a little fun as well.

Looking at the approval rating is nonsense. This is Trump we're talking about, regular wisdom and historical trends don't apply. People will either vote for him or against him pretty much irrespective of what Biden does or doesn't do between now and November.

Biden has got this, the fearmongering is just pundits selling punditry. I'm much more interested in how the Senate race will turn out because a paralysed Biden's second term where nothing gets done might have serious political consequences down the line, including – but not limited to – Trump returning to the White House in '29.

R334, true, the approval rating is not everything -- that's part of what Ron Brownstein is getting at. Although Biden is below where Presidents traditionally need to be to get re-elected, he may still be able to win if he can convince voters who are unhappy with him that he is still better than Trump. In 2022 and again earlier this month on November 7, we saw that some voters are still willing to vote Democratic even though Biden does not have great approval ratings.

The new Ron Brownstein article, "How Biden Might Recover," is here for those with a subscription to The Atlantic, or you can try the free trial option:

Inflation rose 14% between July 2020 and July 2022.

But corporate profits rose by 75% over those two years — five times as fast as inflation.

Don’t tell me corporations have no choice but to raise prices.

And seriously, don't tell me Biden is to blame. Without Biden's many actions to control costs in what few ways he has the power to (cracking down on junk fees, capping insulin at $35/month for Medicare recipients, and things like that), everything would be even WORSE.

[quote]And seriously, don't tell me Biden is to blame. Without Biden's many actions to control costs in what few ways he has the power to (cracking down on junk fees, capping insulin at $35/month for Medicare recipients, and things like that), everything would be even WORSE.

Absolutely true. And absolutely incomprehensible to way too many "so fucking stupid" Americans.

[quote]Young people were led to believe their student loan debt would be forgiven.

[quote] Young people were led to believe their student loan debt would be forgiven. Those who are not college grads or college bound were told the minimum wage would be raised. It's still under 8 dollars an hour. Those people vote too.

A friend of mine who is in her late 50’s had her student loan debt forgiven thanks to Biden. Certainly a load off given her age and the long ass time she has been chipping away at it. (She got her degree when she was in her early 30’s.) Minimum wage is about 15.00 dollars an hour now in my state across the board. Not bad for full time jobs that also offer health insurance and 401ks. Again, that is under Biden’s leadership, definitely not trump’s.

Polls are not always accurate.

Polls are not always accurate.

The price of cake is crazy!!!!

And the voters sometimes don’t show up despite what the polls say

UFC Bible SMACKDOWN!

why??????

fucking stupid cunts! I hate dealing with them!

Think of how stupid the average American is... and realize that half of Americans are stupider than that.

I find it unusual that everyone was saying that Nikki Haley LOST the Nevada Primary and that she got 30% of the vote against None Of The Above that got 60%. This was opposed to the shit show that was the RIGGED NV GOP CAUCUS.

How come nobody is talking about Nikki Haley taking 30% of the Republican vote? Haley gave an opportunity for NEVER TRUMPERS to cast their vote. When Trump LOSES 30% of the Republican vote in an Easy-peasy cakewalk, people are missing the real story.

In the general Election, 30% of Republicans aren't voting for Trump. Same vote in New Hampshire.

Republicans for Biden will be as important as Democrats for Reagan were.

OP wrote this in November.

Shit's changed since then.

You know, age is age. Joe is old. Trump, though, as at least the media seem to not know and definitely do not wish to mention, is ALSO OLD!

In November, Biden will be 82. In June, Trump will be 78. TELL ME there a dime's worth of general difference there!

Both have flubbed words, mixed up facts, had unsure footing/stumbled. Except one man still bicycles; the other rides while other world leaders walk. But be that as it may:

I think the "difference" in perception lies in their voices: Joe is soft-spoken; Trump is too, but he alternates that tone with bombast, with insults, with threats, such that the quieter part also seems menacing. And loud plus menacing apparently equates to "strong and competent leader" for millions.

Yet I could almost---almost---grant credence to that perception, IF ONLY WE HAVEN'T ALREADY HAD A FELONIOUS and TREASONOUS TRUMP PRESIDENCY TO JUDGE HIM BY!

I mean, WTAF, AMERICA?!

"Russian media"? Trump said it himself!