THEATRE GOSSIP #543: The “Here Lies Here Lies Love” Edition

Old thread:

"Harmony" reviews tonight—and a big warm welcome this week to "How to Dance in Ohio"!

Harmony has until Christmas week.

Actually, several shows have til January 7th. Then the purge begins.

Are tickets for Aaron and Sutton available yet?

I hope DL fave Chip Zien gets a career nomination.

He was gracious about Joanna being nominated *AND* winning while he didn’t even get a Drama Desk nomination

How does CHICAGO keep running? I know the costs are low but still....

I guess nobody wants that theater? Is that part of the reason?

Barry is keeping it open until his 96 year old wife croaks.

I like to think that I've made my way up to lieutenant in the Ticket Wars.

I hated Here We Are more than I've ever hated a show. I was climbing the walls for it to end.

Thank you for sharing, r10...

moving on

r11=Joe Mantello

Chip works VERY hard for that Tony. He has a Rose's Turn aria at the end that is impressive but it turns out the thing he's yelling about never happened, so he loses points.

On changes to this Merrily vs the former versions: (R538 in the old thread): The major change is that the lovely anthem "The Hills of Tomorrow" is cut totally. It used to open and close the show, taking our cast back to high school graduation. While I missed the song, ending with the threesome's meeting on the roof makes much better plot sense. It really become about them and their friendship's evolution. The basic problem with the show is that it's fundamentally sad, as relationships disintegrate. By running time backward, you end the show with youthful optimism and idealism. But of course by that time, you know the sad story of what happened after that.

Other Sondheim shows have similar themes, but they are often wrapped in larger productions or the secondary plot. "Here's to the Ladies Who Lunch" is a small part of Company, not the overarching theme. Merrily is fundamentally sad despite it's often lyrical music and lyrics.

For those who followed "Bombshell" when it was running on TV, it's a similar problem. How do you end a glorious musical when the heroine (Marilyn) dies? And when it's not opera either....

But without Hills of Tomorrow, you don't get the whole musical motif of Frank not really having any talent. It's the first (and last iteration) of the same melody that becomes 'Who Wants to Live in New York' and 'Good Thing Going'. There are even echoes in 'Bobby and Jackie and Jack'

NYT reviews "Harmony":

Deadline:

Any chance Merrily will extend? I think it could have a successful open ended run (even with replacement actors.)

Thanks, R14.

Yeah, those cuts were already made in the West End production 10 years ago so it sounds like more or less the same production.

Like I said, I just found the characters so unlikeable - the Frank in that production was particularly bland, a real charisma void - and they all seem so one-dimensional. It takes all evening to arrive at the final scene where you start to like them a bit and by then, it’s too late to engage an audiences’ sympathies. I miss The Hills of Tomorrow book ends, I always thought it was a powerful framing device, especially when I was 19 or 20. Oh well.

The McRib is back. Thought you guys would like to know! YUM!

"The Hills of Tomorrow" was removed from MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG by the authors decades ago. I believe only maybe one or two productions/presentations after the original have used it, and only by special permission.

I think the overwhelming reason for the great success of the current production is that the leads consist of one huge movie/theater star and two other very big stars, all of whom are excellent in their roles. Other factors for the success include the amped-up interest in Sondheim shows in the wake of his death, and also simply the fact that, over the years, many people have gotten used to the show's flaws and are now able to appreciate it for its strengths, especially the score.

And again, based on the cinecast of Maria Friedman's London production, the current one is almost exactly the same in terms of the physical production and the direction. The only significant difference is the cast, and the new leads have obviously made a tremendous difference.

This poor show never gets a break. When they finally get the casting right, the staging and design suck.

[quote]I think the overwhelming reason for the great success of the current production is that the leads consist of one huge movie/theater star and two other very big stars

I love Lindsay Mendez and really loved her performance in Merrily, but to call her a "very big star" is a bit of a stretch.

R23, The operative word being “big”.

R23, I figured someone would chime in with a remark like that. I didn't think I needed to take the time to rate the exact level of stardom of each of the MERRILY leads. You're right that Lindsay is not a "very big star," but she is a Tony Award winner and she has an increasing presence in movies and TV.

[quote] You're right that Lindsay is not a "very big star," but she is a Tony Award winner and she has an increasing presence in movies and TV.

Leilani Jones, Daisy Eagan, Hinton Battle, Ariel Stachel, Cady Huffman and J. Harrison Ghee are all Tony winners (just to name a small handful) and none of them are even star-adjacent. Lindsay Mendez is not a star. That's not a slam against her, it's just a fact.

I don’t think Mary is a difficult role to play.

Regarding "Harmony"—imagine working on a musical for 25 years just to get a review like that in The New York Times.

Danny and The Deep Blue Sea getting lukewarm reviews...

The local equity company in Phila., Arden Theatre, did Merrily in 1997-1998, and it included Hills of Tomorrow. Our local straight cutie Ben Dibble was Kringras, I think. It's Hills of Tomorrow was memorable.

While it was hard to keep one's eyes off of Daniel Radcliffe--cutie and so full of energy and a great little (ha!) dancer--his character never seemed to evolve (nor did Mary's, for that matter). The show is really about Franklin Shepherd, Inc., the least likable of them all.

Sorry, DLers. No apostrophe in Its.

Don't you wish there was a way to edit one's posts?

*

R26, I had previously admitted that I was inaccurate in describing Lindsay Mendez as a "very big star," so why do you need to keep pounding home the fact? Also, as far as I know, none or few of those past Tony Award winners you mentioned have a current presence on film or TV, as Mendez does.

[quote]While it was hard to keep one's eyes off of Daniel Radcliffe--cutie and so full of energy and a great little (ha!) dancer--his character never seemed to evolve (nor did Mary's, for that matter).

That's a strange comment. Both characters evolve greatly, moving backwards in time from extreme bitterness and anger to youthful optimism and deep friendship.

That's a strange comment. Both characters evolve greatly, moving backwards in time from extreme bitterness and anger to youthful optimism and deep friendship.

Mary remains in unrequired love for Franklin, driving her to drink. Charlie remains the loyal friend despite being shat upon by Franklin. Their evolution, or the measure of it, is driven by Franklin. But then, I suppose one could say Franklin also remains the ambitious user he always was.

Thanks for making me rethink my comment.

[Quote] That's a strange comment. Both characters evolve greatly, moving backwards in time from extreme bitterness and anger to youthful optimism and deep friendship.

These actors do not

I think the only convincing , modulated and heartbreaking drunk Mary I’ve even seen was Miriam Shor. To be fair, didn’t see the original

Poor Julie Benko. She probably thought her star to be performance in Funny Girl would propel her to stardom, instead she is getting shit reviews in a bad Barry Manilow musical.

[quote] I had previously admitted that I was inaccurate in describing Lindsay Mendez as a "very big star," so why do you need to keep pounding home the fact? Also, as far as I know, none or few of those past Tony Award winners you mentioned have a current presence on film or TV, as Mendez does.

I'm not the original commenter. I only responded once. But you do keep referring to her as a star (whether or not you want to continue to qualify her as very big). Having a presence on television still doesn't qualify one as a "star." (And you asked- so don't argue that I "keep pounding home the fact.")

Yes, MERRILY's ticket sales have everything to do with Daniel Radcliffe (aka Harry Potter) and Jonathan Groff (aka Kristoff in "Frozen").

The reason why they have done those three-way interviews together was to make it look like Lindsay was part of the equation, but she is not despite being a recent Tony winner.

Groff also has GLEE fans like Lea Michele did.

I still don't understand how Radcliffe is a draw. I looked at his filmography and he's never had a hit outside of the Harry Potter franchise. And he's made a LOT of movies. And on Broadway, outside of How to Succeed, he's never had a hit show. His fan base doesn't seem to follow him to other things. Groff, OTOH, seems to have a much more loyal fan base, especially with theater.

Maybe Radcliffe is like Audra McDonald—people only care if he's in a musical. 🤗

Could be, R43. But I can't understand why. I find him a terrible musical performer. He's not a bad actor, though. And at least we're not cursed with Emma Watson.

Tony winner Bonnie Milligan will lead upcoming private industry readings of Helen, a new musical inspired by the legend of Helen of Troy.

Is she going to play the Trojan Horse?

Isn't Helen supposed to be "the face that launched a thousand ships"?

Bonnie Milligan *IS* Troy!

Maybe she’ll be “the face that launched a thousand cigar shops,” as John Simon once said of Amanda Plummer in The Glass Menagerie.

John Simon was the reason the word rancid was invented.

Radcliffe has done very well for himself.

Mary may not be a difficult role, r27, but few have done it as well as Mendez does. (Jenna Russell in the original Friedman version) was bad. Ann Morrison in the reunion concert (captured on a shaky video) was also good.

[quote]Tony winner Bonnie Milligan will lead upcoming private industry readings of Helen, a new musical inspired by the legend of Helen of Troy.

Damn! I thought it was going to be a biographical musical about La Lawson.

I still argue that because MERRILY is done backward, we need to discover something in the second half that was unknown in the first half, and that explains some loose ends. Without that reveal, it's like reading a novel backward where we know what will happen. The reveal is not that Mary secretly loves Frank because that comes up several times in the first half. So what would that reveal be? In a previous thread, I suggested that it should be the fact that Charlie also secretly loves Frank, and that would come out in a duet during Mary's reprise of Not A Day Goes By. DL soundly booed that suggestion. So there needs to be something else that would cause the audience to gasp and think, "..so THAT'S what it's really about!"

For ten-year-old me watching the movie version of GYPSY, the line was, "You may be a gypsy, Rose-Louise. Hey, that's a good name for stripping!" That's when I figured out what was really going on.

IMHO

R54? This is still the DL and you’re still being roundly booed.

The reveal, if there was one, would be more along the lines of Franklin Shepard proclaiming in a later scene that he despises the type of person we know he’s already unabashedly become, maybe even going so far as to promise Charlie he would never break up their partnership, etc. Some of this is already there, tacitly under the surface, but that’s the kind of reveal I believe you’re referring to, if that were necessary.

R52, I’m sure Lindsay Mendez is terrific as Mary, I just don’t think it’s a very hard role. She’s the most sympathetic character in the thing, unfortunately with an emphasis on “pathetic.” It’s not really much of a role. (Though in the OG Kaufman & Hart, she was based on Dorothy Parker.)

I saw Jenna Russell. She was fine. It’s not much of a role. Like applying The Bechdel Test to Mary would be like applying holy water to the anti-Christ.

[quote] Tony winner Bonnie Milligan will lead upcoming private industry readings of Helen, a new musical inspired by the legend of Helen of Troy.

Perhaps Helen of Troy, NY?

R36, that makes no sense to me, and I disagree.

I feel badly for Aubrey Plaza, pretty much constantly getting poor reviews for DANNY AND THE DEEP BLUE SEA.

Will Patti kick her out?

Is the Broadway community excited about Aaron and Sutton taking over the leads in Sweeney Todd?

Re Tveit: There are some people online who are upset that another 'cis white hetero man' is inheriting the coveted role from another 'cis white hetero man' instead of giving it to a POC, but I'm not sure they're the majority.

Patti went to the first preview. I’m sure she gave her notes. I’m sure that ruined the friendship.

Post some links. R59. NYT wasn’t bad.

R59, I've never seen so many reviews give her a "she's not too bad for a stage debut" pass. What is that? Esp as it's NOT her stage debut. I guess you get your theater hymen back after you become famous? I hope it doesn't make her cynical.

Patti was at her roomies opening last night! I wonder if they went home afterwards and brushed eachother's hair.

They went out and got tattoos.

I have seen many productions of Merrily, including the first one twice. Lindsay is as good as Ann Morrison was in the original. The two of them were the best I’ve seen.

Ann...

I'm losing my mind, DL; I could have sworn that Encores! put out a cast recording for CAN-CAN, but I can't find it anywhere.

Must have mixed it up with one of those *complete* studio recordings.

Encores SHOULD have done a CD of Can-Can, r70, but alas they did not. Audiences and critics were surprised to discover what a fantastic score it has, and there was briefly talk of it moving, but that fell apart quickly, and when it did, so did talk of a CD

Ah well, R71, but knowing DL if we had an album we'd bitch about Patti's diction until the end of time.

RE. Ann Morrison: I have a pretty nice recording of her singing "Ah, But Underneath," perhaps I'll upload it somewhere, I don't think it's online.

I'm guessing the ship has sailed on them recording Piazza with Ruthie and Anna? I'd do anything (for you dear, anything).

Should I try to catch Melissa Etheridge before she closes this weekend?

R72 Do it!

I've watched Patti on youtube singing "I Love Paris" from the Encores' CAN-CAN so many times I got confused and also thought I had the CD.

LuPone recorded two of her Can Can songs, I Love Paris and C’est Magnifique, on her Lady With a Torch Still Burning CD.

[quote]Maybe Radcliffe is like Audra McDonald—people only care if he's in a musical.

People only care if he's in a role they want to see him in, whether in a musical or a straight play. Apparently, many of his fans had no desire to see him in EQUUS or THE CRIPPLE OF INISHMAAN, but they flocked to see him in HOW TO SUCCEED, even though he wasn't very good in it (because of direction that was horrendously bad or non-existent). When I saw THE LIFESPAN OF A FACT, he also had a lot of fans there for that, and they loved him in it.

R74 save yourself the $50 for some bar food and shot of mezcal at Toloache…100 feet to the west and more fun.

[quote] How does CHICAGO keep running? I know the costs are low but still....I guess nobody wants that theater? Is that part of the reason?

Simple, tourists. As with "Cats" and "Oh Calcutta" for that matter, tourists keep the show alive. Guest star casting housewives and such keep it going. Tourist who don't speak English know the story and songs from the movie.

Mickey Jo the Bristish YouTube critic and his fiance ran to "Chicago" on his first ever night in New York. Guest star was Jinx Monsoon who packed the house his whole run.

[quote]Any chance Merrily will extend? I think it could have a successful open ended run (even with replacement actors.)

Oh, Sweetie.

[quote]I still don't understand how Radcliffe is a draw. I looked at his filmography and he's never had a hit outside of the Harry Potter franchise. And he's made a LOT of movies. And on Broadway, outside of How to Succeed, he's never had a hit show.

He's a fucking MOVIE STAR. You obviously have no idea how popular the Harry Potter world is. And "Equus" was a hit, it was always a limited engagement. He was never going to play it a year in NY.

Listening now.

I remember seeing the original Merrily in previews, early enough that Jim Weissenbach was still Frank (he was charmless and completely over his head--you needed someone with more stage experience to make Frank even remotely someone you were interested). I was 23, in NYC to do PhD research, and still traumatized by the end of my first serious love affair. I could only afford to go to one show, and thought the new Sondheim might boost my spirits (even if the plot was not cheery). On a first hearing (i.e. in the theatre), the score seemed okay but unmemorable. I grew over the years to enjoy the score more, though I still find it uneven, more so than the best of Sondheim or even the best of more "popular" theatre composers like Kander and Ebb and Jerry Herman. It did feel like fairly though not exceedingly competent college or high school students playing "grown-up." I did see a terrific production in Chicago a few years later and then the version broadcast in theatres several years ago. I like all three of the stars very much, but they are not "sufficient" to get me to sit through it again. I think the script, like most of George Furth's work, borders on the trite (the book of "Company," which I realize began as one-acts, almost skits or sketches, seems to me something you have to sit through to get to the often wonderful songs). Even the sacred "Follies" has a kind of cheesy soap opera book by James Goldman (whose "masterpiece," "The Lion in Winter," only works when you get near-mythic performers, such as O'Toole and Hepburn, in the roles--something of the archetypal emerges from the supposedly witty repartee--I think Preston and Harris would have made it interesting in the Broadway production, which actually didn't run all that long).

Well it's nice they're making a new MERRILY cast album. I'll probably stick to the OBCR, with it's shitty recording quality and marching band orchestrations, until I drop dead.

It's not on itunes yet

Dear god in heaven "ITS" not "it's!"

Carry on.

You were right the first time

The new Merrilu CD is great. In fact, it sounds far better thsn the show did in person.

Merrilu Henner for replacement Mary!

The remastered OBCR is dazzling.

R87, No.

Julie Benko for Thursday night Mary! (She'll be available soon).

Julie seems to perky for Mary. Of course, I didn't see her Fanny.

My fanny was way bigger than Julie's!

My very critical friend saw Harmony last night. Said it's the best musical he's seen in years and the audience loved it. On his way out of the theatre he overheard several people asking why the critics were so harsh. Hopefully it will find an audience and have a decent run.

here Lies Love announced closing and their gross went down

Somebody asked if Bloody bloody Norma was coming to Broadway. From the NY Post review: "The rousing opening of Act 2, brilliantly matching the music’s propulsion, will be a key challenge to “Sunset” moving to Broadway — which it plans to do as soon as early as the spring or next fall."

I've heard that SUNSET is taking The Shubert in the Spring.

R97, Act II begins with Joe in his dressing room, walking through backstage, leaving the theatre, re-entering through the lobby and walking while singing through the audience to the stage.

Do they bootleg London shows?

R99 Why?

There are two SB bootlegs out there - one with Nicole and one with Rachel Tucker.

Full show bootlegs?

R103, Yes.

R101, Because it’s Jamie Lloyd.

R104... good quality? I assume a torrent or whatever it is?

[quote] He's a fucking MOVIE STAR. You obviously have no idea how popular the Harry Potter world is. And "Equus" was a hit, it was always a limited engagement. He was never going to play it a year in NY.

If he's such a MOVIE STAR then why hasn't he had a hit film outside of the Harry Potter franchise? He's been making them for 22 years, and nothing has hit outside Harry Potter. And Equus was not a hit. The demand for tickets dropped off well before the run ended.

I haven't been in the bootleg world in for a long time, but I recall a girl named Beth who taped shows in London. Beth's videos were AWFUL, but maybe she's improved now.

"NYCG8R," used to be one of the major Broadway tapers, and he would go to London every so often. As far as I understand, he's completely under Ken Mandelbaum's control now.

[quote] haven't been in the bootleg world in for a long time, but I recall a girl named Beth who taped shows in London. Beth's videos were AWFUL, but maybe she's improved now.

Couldn't be any worse than the one who did "Billy Ellott" on Broadway who would put the camera down in their lap to applaud every song giving us nice shots of the Imperial Theatre ceiling.

R108, There was a bootlegger based in Chicago whose recordings were practically commercial quality and he would travel to NYC and beyond.

He seems to have ceased producing. I understand that there are only several bootleggers still active now.

[quote] he's completely under Ken Mandelbaum's control now.

What does that even look like?

who wants to listen to [italic] Merrily [/italic] with that bar mitzvah band?

[quote]who would put the camera down in their lap to applaud every song giving us nice shots of the Imperial Theatre ceiling.

Be grateful it wasn't pointed towards her crotch.

The Nicole bootleg is pretty amazing with lots of focus on Nicole. Every once in a while a head gets in the way but it's amazing the entire show was captured. There were audios of Nicole on YT but they were taken down. Rachel's audios are still up. Nicole's vocals are spectacular and the best since Betty Lynn.

R114, Is the Act II opening as described by R99?

[quote]Nicole's vocals are spectacular and the best since Betty Lynn.

I saw her play it Saturday. This is true. The best Norma I've seen or heard. Glenn Close needs to never say Norma again. She is officially, arguably, in Merman's Mama territory.

Our saggy baggy Norma Desmond.

The Merrily release is on iTunes now.

There was a twitter post where they filmed the actor playing Joe exiting the theatre and walking up to the Strand until he entered the Savoy. He is being followed by a camera while he sings. Towards the end, he points to the poster of SB with ND. It is the same thing Ivo did with "Network" on Broadway. There was a scene where two characters walked around the theatre while they were being filmed.

Because nobody else has mentioned it, Here We Are has the worst orchestrations of any Sondheim show.

Ivo also did it with West Side Story.

Here is the video of Joe Gillis singing outside the Savoy theatre.

r98 Sunset is not taking the Schubert in the spring. It is going to another musical that has yet to be announced.

SB is dropping a new trailer on Thursday. I assumed it might be tied into an announcement about a Broadway transfer.

[quote]Here is the video of Joe Gillis singing outside the Savoy theatre.

That looks/sounds so awkward.

How does it come off inside the theater?

And they do this for every show?

It's very awkward

Do you think they will try to put Radcliffe in featured actor so he and Groff both have a chance at Tony wins?

Definitely, r127. Same with Mendez whose chances in Featured will be better.

Can't remember the name of the new play but it stars Marilu Henner, Melanie Mayron, Caroline Aaron and Brooke Adams (who replaced JoBeth William who either quit or was fired), but the costumes are designed by Beanie Feldstein's mother Sharon who was brought in to replace the costume designer. There must be some good gossip there. Wish I could remember the title,

Lindsay will have better chance in featured but will be campaigned as a Leading lady. Mary Flynn is the female lead of the show.

Women of the West r129

Lindsay won a Featured Tony playing Carrie Pipperidge, a much larger and better role than Mary.

If they go by the traditional standards, all three MERRILY leads are above the title, so . . .

they can petition to be moved down (like Patti Lupone recently) r133

The Outer Critics considered Lindsay Feautured at NYTW. And she won.

Drama Desk and Lucille Lortel nominated her for Lead and she lost.

You can kind of keep this new recording of Merrily. Energy-wise, it just sounds so flat. Sounds like they added a lot of mediocre music.

I don’t think you can beat the OCR of the original Prince production, these kids (Liz Callaway, Jason Akexander, Tonya Pinkins, Giancarlo Esposito among them plus the inimitable Ann Morrison & Lonny Price) singing their hearts out the day after their show closed. Plus, the full orchestrations. I get choked up every time I listen to it. The new one, not at all.

Where can I the remastered version of this?

I think on ITunes.

Sutton Foster and Kelli O'Hara together this Friday at Carnegie Hall!

What surprises might they have in store?

Has Faith Prince ever done a Neil Simon play?

Plenty of good roles for her.

r138, I hope they don't try a Happy Days Are Here Again/Get Happy duet.

Faith would have been so much better than SJP in Plaza Suite. Watching her and Richard Kind on a spin city rerun.

Wouldn't have sold any tickets though

[quote] Has Faith Prince ever done a Neil Simon play?

I only know of her doing Little Me.

She could do The Gingerbread Lady.

R131 - I believe it’s Madwomen of the West. Don’t know anything about the play but that’s a great cast. Love that Caroline Aaron. My type of old broad - takes no prisoners.

[quote]I've heard that SUNSET is taking The Shubert in the Spring.

Fine old theater, the Shubert. Full of tradition.

yes I think you re right about the title r145

[quote]She could do The Gingerbread Lady.

But why would she want to?

I wish I could be excited about Steve Carell as Uncle Vanya. But his snide, snarky, smirk-y delivery is exactly what Chekhov doesn't need.

Will Alison Pill be signing?

Agree about Caroline Aaron. What a treasure. First saw her in Social Security when she replaced Joanna Gleason and she nailed every laugh. And she's great as Woody Allen's sister in Crimes and Misdemeanors. Love her.

You just know Sutton and Kelli are going to sing the Losing My Mind / Not a Day Goes By duet that everyone female couple insists on singing these days

And butcher it.

[quote]Steve Carell Will Make Broadway Debut as Uncle Vanya Alongside Alison Pill

Who will not be signing Playbills for the entire run.

[quote]Nicole's vocals are spectacular and the best since Betty Lynn.

OK but she's no Betty Lynn. Just watched a clip. Buckley was born to play that part.

[quote]You can kind of keep this new recording of Merrily. Energy-wise, it just sounds so flat. Sounds like they added a lot of mediocre music.

OH MY GOD....DUCK!

That’s the joke, R148.

Is any Neil Simon revivalbe?

Well, Matthew and SJP made bank on Plaza Suite.

Duh, thanks I forgot.

I worked with Caroline Aaron, first in the mid 1990s and then again almost 20 years later. I LOVED HER! So much fun, a true broad and very smart. Glad she found some money and steady work on MRS. MAISEL but still wish she'd click into a series that shows off all her talent. I hope her new play is a hit.

r107 Because since Potter he's deliberately chosen niche projects. And more power to him for doing so.

[quote] Because since Potter he's deliberately chosen niche projects. And more power to him for doing so.

Who cares? If he's such a star, people will watch him in anything. People don't love Dan Radcliffe, they love Harry Potter, and Radcliffe embodies him.

[quote] I wish I could be excited about Steve Carell as Uncle Vanya. But his snide, snarky, smirk-y delivery is exactly what Chekhov doesn't need.

I am not a fan of Carell's by any stretch of the imagination, but he has proven he can play roles where he doesn't lean on that particular characterization. Foxcatcher, Beautiful Boy, The Patient...

Did Radcliffe spit in your Maypo, r163?

r163, even Brad Pitt, George Clooney and Julia Roberts cannot bring fans to films of theirs they don't want to see. Even their big commercial efforts. Steven Speilberg's West Side Story was a commercial bomb. The latest Marvel movie collapsed at the box office this past weekend.

The public is very fickle and unpredictable.

What about I Can Get it for You Wholesale? Is there any talk about transferring that? I saw the video with Julia Lester singing Miss Marmelstein and she was terrific.

Weren’t there rumors that Sutton and Kelli had “issues” at one point?

Revive Barefoot In The Park.

[quote]Weren’t there rumors that Sutton and Kelli had “issues” at one point?

It had to do with a...fondue pot.

Sutton and Kelli have always gotten along. They are sane and kind people.

Could Sunset Boulevard be going into the Majestic?

WHOLESALE could never make it on Broadway. Unless Barbra returns as Miss M.

R173 I have a book to push.

She can use a wheelchair instead of an office chair this time! Last chance for a real Tony.

Ok r121 I’ll bite. What musical?

And where is Alicia Keys gonna go? Nederlander are producing, right? So not the Shubert .

[quote][R163], even Brad Pitt, George Clooney and Julia Roberts cannot bring fans to films of theirs they don't want to see. Even their big commercial efforts.

Well, even the biggest movie stars are not immune to turkeys, but those three were genuine box office attractions in their heydays.

Julia Roberts starred in many hits in her twenties and thirties (c. 1990s-2000s) and made Quigley's coveted list of Top 10 bankable actors several times, including at #1 in 1999.

Brad Pitt and George Clooney starred in a number of hits in their thirties and forties (c. 1990s-2000s) and made Quigley's list several times.

More recently, Roberts and Clooney in their fifties and sixties, respectively, starred in the rom-com hit TICKET TO PARADISE (2022) and Pitt in his fifties had Tarantino's ONCE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD (2019) which was a smash and won him an Oscar.

Daniel Radcliffe's only box office hits were the Harry Potter franchise in his teens and early twenties (c. 2000s) and he never made Quigley's list at the height of the Harry Potter mania.

[quote]Steven Speilberg's West Side Story was a commercial bomb.

I don't know how he figures into this, but Spielberg directed many blockbusters in his thirties, forties, and fifties (c. 1970s-1990s) including two that were at one time the highest-grossing films of all time (ET and JURASSIC PARK).

That WSS remake was needless and ill-fated from the start.

[quote] even Brad Pitt, George Clooney and Julia Roberts cannot bring fans to films of theirs they don't want to see. Even their big commercial efforts. Steven Speilberg's West Side Story was a commercial bomb. The latest Marvel movie collapsed at the box office this past weekend.

Yes, but Radcliffe has never opened a movie on his name. All those other people have. Harry Potter was big because of Harry Potter. So he may be famous and a star because he played Harry Potter, and he is not at all untalented. But I don't know how much he's contributing to the success of Merrily, since nothing he's ever done has been a success because of him. (Maybe How to Succeed, maybe.) Perhaps the combination of Groff and Radcliffe is helping, because people are thinking- oh, two names, but I would say that if Groff's role was being played by, say, Colin Donnell, this show would not be selling the way it has.

And no, R165, I have nothing against Radcliffe. I've seen him in things where I've thought he was good and I've seen him in things where he stunk up the joint. That's most actors. I'm not trying to shit on him (no Danny Thomas jokes, please). I'm just stating facts.

I was in the front row at Merrily. Groff really spits a lot when he sings.

r177 & r179, are you really insisting that Daniel Radcliffe's name is not contributing mightily to MERRILY's box office? Do you really think it'd be making 1.8 million a week without him? Oh, come on.

He is, by far, the most recognizable face in those photo booth ads and his big grin is pulling in audiences willing to pay $250 for a ticket.

Let it go, r179. He's a name. That helps at the box office.

Exactly, r181. This production would *not* have happened without him.

[quote] are you really insisting that Daniel Radcliffe's name is not contributing mightily to MERRILY's box office? Do you really think it'd be making 1.8 million a week without him? Oh, come on. He is, by far, the most recognizable face in those photo booth ads and his big grin is pulling in audiences willing to pay $250 for a ticket.

I'm saying that all prior evidence suggests it's Jonathan Groff that is the main draw and not Radcliffe. I don't know how much clearer I can make it. Have I gone to the theater and polled people? No. Maybe there's a nostalgia factor that finally kicked in after 20 years for him that wasn't present in anything else he's done. But he's never had a hit outside of Harry Potter and that was a long time ago. If you want to refute the facts because you're stubborn and need to be right, then have it.

r184, this production would not exist without him.

If you say so.

[quote]I'm saying that all prior evidence suggests it's Jonathan Groff that is the main draw

What evidence is that? The spectacular success of his Bobby Darin musical?

R185 is correct. In general, revivals require stars to get financed. Groff does have a following and attracts diehard theater people but Radcliffe is a global superstar. Surely that was their insurance policy.

I do know that when I went to see MERRILY, the people around me were mostly there for Sondheim or Radcliffe.

[quote]I'm saying that all prior evidence suggests it's Jonathan Groff that is the main draw and not Radcliffe. I don't know how much clearer I can make it.

Then stop trying. This is beyond tedious.

I don't have a dog in this race, but think it's safe to say that Daniel Radcliffe is not and has never been a movie star, but he is someone that scores of HARRY POTTER fans will want to see live on stage, especially since many who grew up on the popular franchise are now nostalgic for it and are able to pay on their own. Also, the HP fanbase is still very large, including among current t(w)eens.

As for Groff, he has the FROZEN franchise, which is as huge, plus tons of GLEE fans, the same people who came to see Lea Michele in FUNNY GIRL this past year. His character on GLEE was recurring throughout its 6 season run, but he was always part of the major plot, since his character became personally involved with Lea's protagonist and eventually married her.

Sorry to say, but Lindsay Mendez is not even a factor.

If that Harry Potter and the Cursed Child play that's currently on Broadway can pull in over $1 million each week, then there are definitely many more people who will want to see 'the real thing' nearby.

The question isn't whether Radcliffe is a movie star or not. It's whether he's a draw or not (r42)

And really, you're actually going to claim Groff will draw in Frozen fans?

Oh my God is it you two again? Why don't you meet and fuck and get it over with??

Or you could kill each other.

Only New York theater queens would think that Groff is a bigger draw than Radcliffe.

Well, since it is a musical playing on Broadway, those New York theater queens just might be right.

[quote]She can use a wheelchair instead of an office chair this time! Last chance for a real Tony.

Great story in her book. She auditioned in a chair, rolling it around the stage. She got laughs and the job. She thought of course that's how it would done in the show since it worked. Arthur Laurents and choreographer Herbert Ross wanted nothing to do with it. Of course it wasn't their idea so their egos were in control. Out of town, the number wasn't what it should be, they wanted her to walk all over the stage and Barbra kept begging to let her do in the chair until finally they relented and the rest was history. Arthur Laurents never mentioned it ever to her.

Diehard Frozen fans are in elementary school, they aren't going to see Merrily lol.

And how quickly you bitches forget, before Groff came into the picture Andrew Garfield was apparently in negotiations to play Frank. Radcliffe's name was also attached to that gossip.

The night of the 1962 Tony Awards, David Merrick was all over Streisand, convinced she would win for Wholesale.

When Phyllis Newman’s name was announced, Merrick suddenly dumped Streisand and was all over Phyllis, who he had been ignoring all evening, even though he was the producer of both their shows.

^Wrong thread.

I know it’s a joke of an idea, but if Streisand did Wholesale on Broadway for 10-12 weeks it would be an event, she would win the Tony and it would only really require her to sing one song that people love her singing.

[quote]^Wrong thread.

What would be the right thread for that r200?

And Miss Marmelstein was originally conceived as an older woman, a classic spinster, old maid. Finally, Barbra would be playing a character for which she is age-appropriate.

Do it, Barbra! Think of all the books you'll sell. not to mention that long hoped-for competitive Tony.

Stupidest pose of all time (above)

Post!

R185, this production did exist before, in the West End where it had a modestly successful run, without him.

I guess you mean on B’way but isn’t Sondheim also a contributing factor?

When did Streisand last leave California?

"In the show, audience members will be invited to do more than imagine their responses to his questions. They will be paid for performative tasks, which include reading a monologue or, in one case, enacting a scene from Dimchev’s “The P-project,” in which two volunteers take off their clothes and simulate sex onstage. All payments are in cash; Dimchev said that the show pays out about $1,000 to the audience each night, half of that for the sex scene."

[quote]Diehard Frozen fans are in elementary school, they aren't going to see Merrily lol.

FROZEN was released in 2013. The kids who were 8 or 10 then are now 18 or 20.

Not to mention that the film was the highest-grossing of the year -- grossing $1.280 billion and beating out IRON MAN 3, THE HOBBIT 2, THE HUNGER GAMES 2, FAST & FURIOUS 6, THOR 2, MAN OF STEEL, etc. -- so it also had a ton of older fans in their teens/twentysomethings who are now in their twenties/thirties.

FROZEN II was an even bigger smash = $1.450 billion

The HP films were undoubtedly successful, but none of them ever grossed over $1 billion except for the first and last one.:

THE SORCERER'S STONE = $1.024 billion

CHAMBER OF SECRETS = $926 million

THE PRISONER OF AZKABAN = $798 million

GOBLET OF FIRE = $896 million

ORDER OF THE PHOENIX = $942 million

THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE = $934 million

THE DEATHLY HALLOWS - PART 1 = $977 million

THE DEATHLY HALLOWS - PART 2 = $1.342 billion

My point: Don't underestimate the FROZEN franchise! It was very popular then and still is with new, younger fans.

[quote]"In the show, audience members will be invited to do more than imagine their responses to his questions. They will be paid for performative tasks, which include reading a monologue or, in one case, enacting a scene from Dimchev’s “The P-project,” in which two volunteers take off their clothes and simulate sex onstage. All payments are in cash; Dimchev said that the show pays out about $1,000 to the audience each night, half of that for the sex scene."

It's like the last days of Weimar Republic Berlin.

How fitting for that CABARET revival to open next year on a presidential election year.

r197, Laurents, in his 2000 memoir, tells a very different tale. He pointedly says that Barbra's story (one she had been telling for years) that doing the number in the chair was her idea was bs, that it was choreographer Herb Ross's idea and that Ross staged it. Both self-serving egotists. Whom to believe?

[quote] The question isn't whether Radcliffe is a movie star or not. It's whether he's a draw or not ([R42]) And really, you're actually going to claim Groff will draw in Frozen fans?

Actually, I didn't. That was someone else. Stop assuming.

[quote] Then stop trying. This is beyond tedious.

No, replies like this are what's tedious.

[quote]Laurents, in his 2000 memoir, tells a very different tale. He pointedly says that Barbra's story (one she had been telling for years) that doing the number in the chair was her idea was bs, that it was choreographer Herb Ross's idea and that Ross staged it. Both self-serving egotists. Whom to believe?

Did anyone during Laurents entire 94 years ever say anything nice about him? I'm team Babs.

R214, “Call me when he’s dead”

R214, I would love to hear from Matt Cavenaugh the details of when Laurents was lusting after him.

R209, yes, the kids are older but many smaller children still watch it on Disney.

HOWEVER, I don't know that these young really care about the other stars who are not Idina or Josh Gad. Some people know Santino Fontana is Prince Hans and some know Jonathan was Kristoff but I think Idina and Josh were the two breakout stars. In the height of Frozen frenzy, I told my nieces and nephews that I had worked on a show with Krstoff and they said to me "but what about Olaf?" They only wanted to know about Olaf and what he was like and if I knew him well. Kirstoff didn't even register. Idina is the one who gets the huge mega concerts and appearances, not anyone else, not even Kristin Bell.

[quote]My point: Don't underestimate the FROZEN franchise! It was very popular then and still is with new, younger fans.

Dude, "Frozen" is a fucking cartoon. Do you think any child walking down the street ever pointed to Jonathan Groff and squealed "Oh look it's Kristoff!"?

[quote]any child walking down the street ever pointed to Jonathan Groff and squealed

Pics please.

Laurents was a lying, hateful, bullying pig of a man. Fuck him and his supposed legacy.

If you said," Who is Jonathan Groff?" to 50 Americans, only one would properly identify him. He is not the draw no matter how you might try to spin it.

R221, I’ve forgotten him already.

So have I.

In her book, Babs says some very hateful things about Laurents during WHOLESALE, but doesn't hesitate to work with him in THE WAY WE WERE. She also contradicts the whole chewing-gum-under-the chair episode.

I don't know him.

Haven't read Barbra's book (yet) but does she say if Laurents wrote The Way We Were for her? Or did she become attached to the film once the screenplay was finished?

And does she discuss her feelings about "fans" calling her Babs?

Does she talk about how she fucked over her understudy in Funny Girl?

Does she mention me?

In the book, Barbra doesn't connect the dots of her apparent contradictions -- Laurents as tormentor (ICGIFYW, the record letter), Laurents as partner in TWWW. She admits that she was fine with brutally honest people if she respected their talents, and that was clearly a short list. But apparently Laurents was on it...Doesn't mean he wasn't also an evil fuck.

Mary Rodgers was a liar, she never spilled on why the cunt Laurents was such a cunty cunt.

Babs hasn't yet mentioned being called "Babs." (I"m listening to the entire book on audio. I'm halfway there. Yikes!). Laurents did write TWWW for her, based on a friend of his from college. The script was then "enriched" by two writers hired by the producers. She also claims that there was no truth to the Anne Francis story. It was spread by Francis on a talk show, but later Anne confessed that the FG producer Ray Stark put her up to it for publicity. Stark comes off as a real asshole.

Frank Rich must have some stories. From the Here We Are article:

[quote] My last phone conversation with him the weekend before his death was typical. After savoring in giddy detail the just-opened Classic Stage revival of Assassins, he let loose with a new anecdote about the most notoriously exasperating of his Broadway collaborators, the West Side Story and Gypsy librettist Arthur Laurents (he knew I was a ready audience for Arthur horror stories)

Let’s not let these stories get lost.

[quote]When Phyllis Newman’s name was announced, Merrick suddenly dumped Streisand and was all over Phyllis, who he had been ignoring all evening, even though he was the producer of both their shows.

"And the Tony Award goes to . . . Phyllis Newman, who will have to do."

R233 I would fuck Frank Rich to get that story.

Please do, r234!

I suspect the truth of the moving chair story is, Barbra had the brilliant idea to sing MIss M sitting in the chair and that's how she auditioned and won the role.

But Herbert Ross was the person who ultimately gave her all the moves and chaireography when they saw the number wasn't landing in tryouts. So it was a collaborative effort.

That's what I was thinking, r236.

[quote]My point: Don't underestimate the FROZEN franchise! It was very popular then and still is with new, younger fans.

Let it go...let it go.

Is Groff a good singer? I guess I just don't like his voice. The new album makes me listen to him breathe a lot.

Groff is soooo ordinary. Like Sutton without tits

“Like Sutton without tits“

Give him a couple more years.

Oh, please. Sutton has no tits. Groff and Tveit? They got tits.

To be fair most everyone else is Sutton WITH tits.

Sutton should see the wizard on Park and 73rd!

[quote]The new album makes me listen to him breathe a lot.

Better that than seeing him in person where he can spit on you.

NYT reviews "Spamalot":

Deadline:

R125, yes, every show. In the style of the show, it really works. As part of telling the story, it has nothing to do with the lyrics. But somehow, it works.

Spamalot set designer Paul Tate dePoo III's name is certainly Pythonesque.

[quote][R197], Laurents, in his 2000 memoir, tells a very different tale. He pointedly says that Barbra's story (one she had been telling for years) that doing the number in the chair was her idea was bs, that it was choreographer Herb Ross's idea and that Ross staged it. Both self-serving egotists. Whom to believe?

There's another part of the story that I'm sure is not in Barbra's book. Decades ago, Lehman Engel went on record that, as musical director for WHOLESALE, he had worked with Barbra on "Miss Marmelstein" to ensure that the song ended with a bang and got a big ovation. But apparently, at some point Barbra said she wanted to perform the ending in a different way. She demonstrated for Engel what she wanted to do, and he told her it would kill the laugh at the end of the song and therefore dampen the applause. Still, Barbra kept whining about wanting to try the ending her way.. Then, one night, she finally did -- and there was no laugh at the end of the song, and very tepid applause. I found this a very telling story about how, even at the start of her career, BS thought she knew more than even her most experienced and respected colleagues.

This is why Broadway is dying. You have Harmony (while not perfect) an original Broadway musical with a new score, get ripped to shreds in the reviews and yet Spamelot, which is a rehash of a semi-hit from 20 years ago, get raves.

[quote]Still, Barbra kept whining about wanting to try the ending her way.. Then, one night, she finally did -- and there was no laugh at the end of the song, and very tepid applause. I found this a very telling story about how, even at the start of her career, BS thought she knew more than even her most experienced and respected colleagues.

How do you get "she knew more than even her most experienced and respected colleagues", when she just wanted to try something different?

She was told by an experienced colleague that it would kill the laugh and get tepid applause. Yet, she "knew better. " It's arrogance, plain and simple. People don't pay good money to see a performer go rogue; she got what she deserved. The show is not an occasion to experiment.

Well, let’s see. Streisand was the only person to get a career boost from Wholesale. Her next show was a huge hit and launched a film career. She got what she deserved.

Laurent’s’ and Ross’ next show? Anyone Can Whistle. They got what they deserved.

For those interested in how the title number is performed in the current SB revival.

[quote]She was told by an experienced colleague that it would kill the laugh and get tepid applause. Yet, she "knew better. " It's arrogance, plain and simple.

She wanted to TRY it, arrogance would be saying "I'm doing THIS way no matter what and you can't do anything about it".

That was annoying!

So, "Miss Marmelstein" ends with that big gutsy "I could.....BUST!"

Was that Barbra's way or Lehman Engel's? Either way I've never thought it was the best ending to the song. I wonder what the alternative was.

I don't think Engel could dictate how she ended the song. That would have been Laurents' call.

Elton John-Jake Shears Musical ‘Tammy Faye’ Heading To Broadway In 2024-25 Season:

[quote]How do you get "she knew more than even her most experienced and respected colleagues", when she just wanted to try something different?

Because, although you may disagree, there are rules for comedy and music and how to end a song in a way that's going to get applause as opposed to not. Babs was just starting out in the business, WHOLESALE was her first Broadway show, but she thought she knew better than the veteran conductor/musical director Lehman Engel, who aside from his work in musical theater wrote books on the subject. Anyway, she did get to try her way of ending the song, and it didn't work.

[quote]Laurent’s’ and Ross’ next show? Anyone Can Whistle.

Their mistake was getting involved with the King of Flops - Stephen Sondheim.

[quote]She wanted to TRY it, arrogance would be saying "I'm doing THIS way no matter what and you can't do anything about it".

Isn't that essentially what she did?

[quote]I don't think Engel could dictate how she ended the song. That would have been Laurents' call.

Engel was the musical director AND conductor, so he had a big say in it, especially since we're talking about how the number ended musically to give it a comic "button."

If you are going to demand a song be performed a song a certain way, then demand it with GUSTO!

That's pretty much the way Julia Lester sings it in the revival.

[quote]That's pretty much the way Julia Lester sings it in the revival.

WHAT is?

I presume he means Lester sings it with gusto. And she does!

Man, it's really annoying how those hyenas are laughing during the SB clip.....it's fun.....but I would slapping some faces and taking names......

[quote]Man, it's really annoying how those hyenas are laughing during the SB clip

Of course, the very strange thing about that is, the title song of SB is not supposed to be remotely funny, nor is the intro to it. But it's such a terrible song that maybe they felt they had to do SOMETHING to make it interesting.

Are those hyenas part of the show or theatergoers? I would have to move....they are awful

R271, what makes you think they could be part of the show? What do you mean?

R271, Have you been to Moulin Rouge?

[quote]Elton John-Jake Shears Musical ‘Tammy Faye’ Heading To Broadway In 2024-25 Season:

Billy Porter IS Tammy Faye Bakker!

[quote]Man, it's really annoying how those hyenas are laughing during the SB clip.....it's fun.....but I would slapping some faces and taking names......

Why, it's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in a live show. The chorus were making faces, there's the monkey, a standee of Andrew Lloyd Webber, why should people take it seriously?

[quote] Elton John-Jake Shears Musical ‘Tammy Faye’ Heading To Broadway In 2024-25 Season:

Is this the first flop of next season or has something as equally horrible been announced?

Either way, R276, it definitely has "flop" written all over it.

[quote]r227 Does she talk about how she fucked over her understudy in Funny Girl? — Drainie Trazan

Does she talk about her adoring little sister who worshipped the ground she sang on, but then was forced to toil in the back of a bakery for years while Miss Big Fat Movie Star rolled in her trillions?

And all over some ice cream?

Caroline Aaron lives in my building.

R278. Half sister

Caroline Aaron lives in my head.

Caroline Aaron's sister Josephine Abady ran Circle in the Square throughout much of the 1990s and produced some interesting revivals, including productions of BUS STOP with Mary-Louise Parker and Bill Crudup (it's where they met), and HOLIDAY with Laura Linney and Tony Goldwyn. Sadly, Abady died not long after that.

Everyone in elementary school was born before Frozen.

If you've ever listened to the OBC of ICGIFYW, you'd know that Streisand's vocal performances are the ONLY aspect of that performed score that land at all, especially "Miss Marmelstein." It's like she was in a different show from the rest of that dreary cast.

And I believe her performances at the Bon Soir night club from the early 60s (now out on CD) were around this time....maybe even just before it.....where she displays an unerring sense of bravura at age 19 on how to land a song. Any song. And without Laurents' or Engels' help.

Personally, just based on listening to those recordings, I'd say they should have allowed her to do whatever she wanted with her songs.

I agree, r284, except that the "dreary cast" included Marilyn Cooper, Harold Lang, Lillian Roth, and Sherie North. None of them dreary.

Marilyn Cooper is an acquired taste.

I never acquired it.

It's Sheree, r285!

I'm halfway through the book and Babs mentions Roslyn only once so far—when she was born.

Sorry for you, r286.

That SB clip is awful on so many levels. It's ridiculously 'meta', has absolutely no relevance to the song, the constant looking at the camera is annoying as fuck, and the actor playing Joe is fugly.

And then you read the comments saying it's "awesome", "brave" and "pure brilliance". It is to weep....

I watched the livestream of Jaja's African Hair Braiding Salon yesterday. Overall I enjoyed it. Most of the performances were very good, though there were a couple duds, most especially the character who gets the microbraids, and the daughter Marie, who was fine in the first two thirds but then blows it to hell in a truly histrionic finale.

But what was the point of the play? It was fun, funny, enjoyable (which should be enough, and is for me), but the last 10 minute it turns deadly serious and doesn't at all earn it. It couldn't have felt more forced and tacked on than if one of the street vendors had come in at the end with an uzi and shot everyone to death in the store. There was no tension woven (no pun intended) throughout the play to earn the ending. It felt more like a first draft. I don't think the playwright is untalented at all, but this should have gone through a bit more development.

I really liked the actress who played the woman from Sierra Leone who did the microbraiding. She should be remembered at Tony time.

[quote]I'm halfway through the book and Babs mentions Roslyn only once so far—when she was born

What do you want...Roz came over Saturday afternoon and we played Mahjong. I won.??????

[quote]r280 Half sister —Babs

Half sister means half the money!

[quote]Personally, just based on listening to those recordings, I'd say they should have allowed her to do whatever she wanted with her songs.

And I'm sure you're a huge fan of what she did to the ending of her film of A STAR IS BORN, where she overrode the director and had the spectacular ego to end the film with an endless, unbroken shot of her singing the final song, shot from one camera angle with no cutaways whatsoever. And it probably goes without saying that you also love the ending of YENTL.

P.S. According to Lehman Engel's account, "Miss Marmelstein" got a far more muted response the one time Streisand ended the song with the different ending she wanted to try. So of course she had to admit that Engel was right, and she went back to ending it the way they had both originally agreed it should end.

r292, she mentions everyone on earth in 992 pages, even her brother, why not Roslyn?

While I would agree that the cast of ICGIFYW would seem spectacular on paper, they do indeed all sound dreary on the recording except for Barbra. I've loved Marilyn Cooper, Lilllian Roth and Harold Lang on other OBCs, but not here.

r294, while I can absolutely agree with your assessments of Barbra's " control issues" on the later projects you mention, when she was very young - and I'm basing this on her first dozen albums, the new live recording that's come out recently of her at the Bon Soir wjhen she was 19 in 1962 (she's only singing with a small jazz combo with seemingly very little guidance) and her first 2 magnificent TV specials, in which she had virtually no co-stars - she seemed to have incredibly innate good taste and an impeccable sense of what worked for her. And she worked with people she trusted and who trusted her to come up with a superb product.

People now forget, when Barbra first showed up, there had had been NOTHING like her. So, my point was the young Barbra had so much originality to offer, she was well worth even the likes of Laurents and Engel letting her have her say. Have you listened to ICGIFYW lately? Do you think there's anything else fresh there besides her?

As a teenager I was huge fan back then. I don't know why she changed her aesthetic so much once she established herself in Hollywood but she lost me after she filmed Funny Girl.

[quote] I don't know why she changed her aesthetic so much once she established herself in Hollywood

She wouldn't have endured so long if she hadn't kept up with the times, r96, say what you will about the results.

[quote]While I would agree that the cast of ICGIFYW would seem spectacular on paper, they do indeed all sound dreary on the recording except for Barbra. I've loved Marilyn Cooper, Lilllian Roth and Harold Lang on other OBCs, but not here.

I tend to agree, but as you may or may not know, Marilyn Cooper was ill during the recording sessions for WHOLESALE. I would say one can hear that quite clearly, especially in "A Funny Thing Happened," although I think she does a pretty good with that one anyway despite the fact that she's obviously impaired vocally. Also, I hope needless to say, part of the issue is that some of the WHOLESALE score is really not that great, and for example, Harold Lang's songs are obviously nowhere near as good as his songs in PAL JOEY.

[quote][R294], while I can absolutely agree with your assessments of Barbra's " control issues" on the later projects you mention, when she was very young - and I'm basing this on her first dozen albums, the new live recording that's come out recently of her at the Bon Soir wjhen she was 19 in 1962 (she's only singing with a small jazz combo with seemingly very little guidance) and her first 2 magnificent TV specials, in which she had virtually no co-stars - she seemed to have incredibly innate good taste and an impeccable sense of what worked for her. And she worked with people she trusted and who trusted her to come up with a superb product.

I don't disagree, but of course, she did have SOME collaborators on even her early projects. And it seems that in those days she was more inclined to pay attention to their input, whereas in later years she only wanted to work with "yes" men (and women) who would never challenge her or ever question any of her instincts, even when they were off about something.

Well R296 you have to remember that FUNNY GIRL was the first film that Barbra Streisand ever directed.

Yes, r286, the songs on WHOLESALE are excellent, and the orchestrations by Sid Ramin are brilliant.

[quote]And I'm sure you're a huge fan of what she did to the ending of her film of A STAR IS BORN, where she overrode the director and had the spectacular ego to end the film with an endless, unbroken shot of her singing the final song, shot from one camera angle with no cutaways whatsoever. And it probably goes without saying that you also love the ending of YENTL.

I'm not who you were adressing but how do you know the ending of "A Star Is Born", was her actual choice and not Jon Peters? You do realized she has recut the ending to include many different shots of her singing the song. The new version is what runs on TCM.

And for "Yentl" I worked in a movie theater and watched show after show end with huge applause and cheers. Audiences loved it. Not a sin.

[quote]R295 she mentions everyone on earth in 992 pages, even her brother, why not Roslyn?

Babs couldn’t take the heat.

I really don't think we can know how much of the 19 year old Streisand was a self-invention and how much some friends and colleagues might have contributed to that persona. But at that age, creating herself and also her nightclub act, she certainly wasn't beholden to obeying anyone's advice.

And, again, remember, in 1962, putting over a young Jewish girl from Brooklyn with that nose and no connections couldn't have been easy. At least, until they heard her sing.

r302, I have a new definition of sad. The dress. The wig. The efforts to sound black. Pitiful.

^^ Barbra (still bitter)

Matt Doyle is back streaming video games. Guess he didn't like Max getting all the attention

Why doesn’t Roslyn write a book :

“I Knew Her as Barbara”

“Barbara to Me”

something like that - -

Her Name Ain’t Barbra

Hahahahaha!

As Babs is the elder, maybe Roz is waiting to see what’s in the will

There’s probably a vengeance-filled manuscript all ready to go as a Plan B, if needed.

Can you read, Roz Kind?

[quote]she mentions everyone on earth in 992 pages, even her brother, why not Roslyn?

At least she wasn't molested.

Working title:

[italic]Her Name is CUNT

Caroline Aaron Lives in My Head would be a good name for a play. Double bill it with I Did it For You, Laura Linney.

Melissa Manchester is already out of the Funny Girl tour with a foot injury. May be back in January.

Someone get Tovah to pack a bag.

The filming outside the theatre has been done so many times before, at least in London. Yes, Ivo has done it a lot and certainly did it in the National Theatre production of Network several years ago. I remember they did it in the 2013 production of Edward II at the National, directed by Joel Hill Gibbons (not that he was necessarily the originator of the idea), which incidentally featured Vanessa Kirby as Queen Isabella. I’m sure it was done before that. I think I recall seeing the camera on stage thing as far back as maybe 1997 in Ivo’s production of Caligula in the Edinburgh International Festival and just about everything he’s done since (that I’ve seen) with the exception of Desire Under The Elms. Practically the entire production of All About Eve was done this way with the entire cast crammed into an enclosed gally on stage filming each other. It wasn’t much to look at and that production was terribly inert. I imagine of course he’ll do it in Opening Night and fans of Sheridan Smith will think he’s copying Jamie Lloyd.

Lloyd has so shamelessly stolen Ivo’s signature style he would arrested for larceny if he was applying it to anything other than an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical that never really worked. Nothing ever deserved to be desecrated more - Lloyd Weber’s pomposity - and that’s the only reason he’s getting away with it.

Ivo is a fucking phony.

How did Gaten Matarazzo play Toby in Sweeney? Did he seem "special" like Ken Jennings in the original.

I saw the understudy who is on now and he played the part like a normal person.

[quote]I'm not who you were adressing but how do you know the ending of "A Star Is Born", was her actual choice and not Jon Peters?

I recall Streisand having been quoted as saying that it was her doing, although of course Jon Peters would have had to agree.

[quote]You do realized she has recut the ending to include many different shots of her singing the song. The new version is what runs on TCM.

Actually, no, this is the first I've heard of that, so thanks for the info. I'll have to track down that cut, as I can only imagine it improves the final sequence greatly.

[quote]And for "Yentl" I worked in a movie theater and watched show after show end with huge applause and cheers. Audiences loved it. Not a sin.

Just because the audience loved it doesn't mean the ending is not ridiculous. That whole final scene absolutely seems like it's from another movie entirely.

Never realized how much Rosalyn looks like her mother. That PURLIE rendition is painful to watch.

If we believe the book, Jon Peters could try till the cows come home to overrule Barbra, but it wasn't about to happen.

She takes numerous swipes at Jon Peters in the book.

Was their parting amicable?

She says nicer things about Lesley Anne Warren than she does about Jon Peters.

Barbra would have known Lesley Anne Warren back when LAW was costarring opposite husband Elliott in DRAT! THE CAT, which, of course, we remember now only because of Barbra's gorgeous version of the song "He Touched Me" from the flop show.

R323, Barbra commends Lesley Anne Warren for her allowing the son she had with Peters, who was close in age to Jason, to visit the Streisand/Peters household often. Lesley even allowed her son to live with them for a year.

Barbra also writes that she thought LAW was very talented.

Unfortunately, LAW turned into a massive cunt.

No, the split was not amicable.

Saw Patti LuPone's Don't Monkey with Broadway in Toronto last night. Don't know if it was the audio or the ravages of time but she wasn't in best voice. It wasn't awful and there were vestiges of before, but it wasn't quite Patti LuPone. (I also don't think she was entirely well... she'd from time to time turn her back to the audience between numbers and blow her nose. Probably getting over a cold or the COVID or something.)

The fun part was the audience and her. Every eldergay in Toronto was there and they were roaring for her. She's a very moving performer live in concert because the affection of the crowd seemed to visibly move her. It reminded me of the recordings of Garland's concert where the audience went so nuts and surprised me because I didn't think Patti LuPone commanded that kind of affection. No audience members were excoriated during the performance so bit disappointed about that.

She's Italian, r327...she singa for the people.

Comparing LuPone to Garland makes me ill.

I saw that Don’t Monkey a couple of months ago at the Tilles Center at LIU Post. What a terrific show. Strong voice, funny stories, lots of songs. Maybe being on her home turf (Long Island) added a boost.

"the COVID"?

Have we become that dumb?

R329, it's probably just your Depends bunching up.

Try duct tape, R329.

Does anyone know what happened to AllThatChat? It's been down for many days.

It's been down "for an upgrade" since Nov 9th, r334. They had previously said that this might happen, but it went down unannounced.

There is a temporary site linked below, but nothing seems to be happening on it. I know a lot of DL-ers don't care for ATC, but I like to visit the curmudgeons every week or so.

[quote]I know a lot of DL-ers don't care for ATC, but I like to visit the curmudgeons every week or so.

I visit every so often, r335, for old time's sake.

I like ATC. I don't have a sense of who the regulars are, etc, but I find the opinions there to be more thoughtful and less fanatical than BWW (whose posters have an undeservedly high opinion of themselves).

And ATC has that "cobbled together with a broken perl script and mysql database in the 90s" charm

Speaking of Laura Linney, will she ever win a Tony?

Speaking of Laura Osnes, will she ever win a Tony?

Speaking of Sunset Boulevard will Glenn Close ever win an Oscar?

Saw "Spamalot" last night. I wasn't really interested in seeing it but my niece wanted to see it for her birthday, so I said okay. Though Act 2 in my opinion is far better than Act 1, it's a fun show with lots of great jokes, so I get all the positive reviews. It's not hard to see that the cast is having a blast up there and I'd be surprised if several of the performances didn't factor heavily into the featured acting categories at next year's Tonys (which should make for some great competition with "Merrily" and "Cabaret").

Having seen THE WIZ, there are plenty of feature noms in that show. Amazing cast.

can anyone answer r318

He was ok. There wasn’t much characterizatIon beyond playing Toby as a normal boy. He couldn’t sing very well, so Not While I’m Around was staged to emphasize Ashford. For many sitting in the orchestra, he was also blocked by a table during the song.

Wow disagree with r345. The night I saw he sounded good and I found his performance the most effective and focused of anyone up there.

{quote]I know a lot of DL-ers don't care for ATC, but I like to visit the curmudgeons every week or so.

I get all the curmudgeons I need on DL, especially in the theater gossip threads.

Gaten has a great voice. And I couldn’t see him either. Bad staging.

Here’s when he was younger.

R348 That face....

That’s genetics…clearly not his issue. Why is it for you?

Any news on Old Friends transferring to Broadway?

R344 I liked him a lot. Not sure Toby is that deep. He played him like a naive young boy, maybe not "touched in the head" like Mrs. Lovett claims but definitely naive and a little odd, though more street urchin than developmentally delayed. I mean he definitely was being a con-man in the Pirelli scene so there was some shrewdness there.

1. You’ll Never Know (H. Warren, M. Gordon) - duet with 1955 Barbra

2. Warm All Over (F. Loesser) - from The Most Happy Fella

3. How Are Things in Glocca Mora? (B. Lane, E.Y. Harburg) / Heather on the Hill (A. Lerner, F. Lowe) - from Finian's Rainbow / Brigadoon

4. On My Own (C. Schonberg, A. Boublil) - from Les Miserables

5. A Funny Thing Happened On My Way To Love (H. Rome) - from I Can Get It For You Wholesale

6. Moonfall (R. Holmes) - from The Mystery of Drood

7. Make Our Garden Grow (L. Bernstein) - from Candide

Any guesses who will replace that unknown British actress when the Tammy Faye musical comes to Broadway? I'm betting on Annaleigh Ashford who would seem to be a perfect fit. And I assume Andrew Rannells will continue as Jim.

Or Chenoweth....talk about perfect

She did the workshop for the other Tammy Faye musical and spent years trying to bring that to Broadway

Can Jessica Chastain sing?

I was reading about Cloris Leachman and her wiki page says

[quote]She appeared in the Broadway-bound production of William Inge's Come Back, Little Sheba, but left the show before it reached Broadway when Katharine Hepburn asked her to co-star in a production of William Shakespeare's As You Like It.

I guess that’s understandable on one level, but still it’s strange to leave the premiere production of a new play by one of America’s most important playwrights, isn’t it?

But this struck me as odder:

[quote] Leachman was slated to play the role of Abigail Williams in the original Broadway cast of Arthur Miller's seminal drama The Crucible…, Leachman left the production the day before opening night in Wilmington, with Madeleine Sherwood assuming the role.

What the hell? Miller was even more important than Inge, and Abagail’s a great part. If nothing else, isn’t it rather unprofessional to quit right before the very first performance?

WHAT was up her ass??

[quote]WHAT was up her ass??

I don't remember The Crucible reason, but I could see her picking doing Shakespeare roles with Kate over the secondary role in Sheba. You're forgetting this was Inge's first Broadway play, so he didn't have a track record. She was thinking of her growth as an actress more than her career.

[quote]but it went down unannounced.

I do that too. It's called "surprise oral."

That Shakespeare with Kate was up in Connecticut.

That would have been a very prestigious credit on her resume.

I'm surprised that Cloris Leachman would have been considered pretty or sexy enough for the roles of Abigail in CRUCIBLE and Marie (Terry Moore in the film) in SHEBA. I wonder if there isn't a bigger story to her leaving both of those productions?

Since she really didn't come into her own until 1971 with THE LAST PICTURE SHOW and MTM, almost 20 years after those 2 plays, I'd question if they were the best decisions (if indeed they were hers to make).

But everyone has their own path to happiness, after all.

While I absolutely loved Parade and enjoyed Sweeney Todd on Broadway this past year, the new West End production of SUNSET BLVD. (caps and abbreviation included) is one of the most exciting and innovative theatrical events in many years, on either shore. To call it a revival is almost insulting given what it is.

Nicole Scherzinger gives a performance unlike any I have seen, with a very famous sex symbol pop star turned reality host totally becoming a tragic silent film star turned recluse in 1950 with a wink to modern times. It’s impossible really describe how the very avant garde Jamie Lloyd production works, but it seems to hold a place both in 1950 and also in 2023. Perhaps this all sounds like hyperbole, but to experience the production as it plays currently at the Savoy shows how far behind Broadway has fallen in many, many ways.

And, yes, the curtain call everyone I assume here has seen with Norma and Joe in their underwear covered with blood is totally justified by the directorial conceit and their committed performances.

A brilliant piece of theatre that reinvents what theatre can really do… since it’s a show literally about movies, to dismiss it out of hand as relying so heavily on live film projected (and it is all live, even the act two opening) is not something I assume one would do once seeing it performed live as it is in this production.

That said, I’m sure many will hate it and may not be the success it currently is in London if it travels. The theater and the lead actors will have a lot of bearing on that since it clearly was built for Nicole and she is exquisite.

[quote]Since she really didn't come into her own until 1971 with THE LAST PICTURE SHOW and MTM, almost 20 years after those 2 plays, I'd question if they were the best decisions (if indeed they were hers to make).

She had come sufficiently into her own to star as the first Ruth Martin (adoptive mother of Timmy, played by Jon Provost) for the fourth season of "Lassie" (1957-1958). She was replaced by June Lockhart beginning with the fifth season.

Cloris worked a *lot* in TV before MTM, r363.

PS both “With One Look” and “As If We Never Said Goodbye” both received full house mid-show standing ovations, even on a Thursday in September in London. The curtain call was the most vociferous I have ever heard in seeing dozens of West End shows. Also, they just released a trailer including the entire vocal ending.

[quote]I'm surprised that Cloris Leachman would have been considered pretty or sexy enough for the roles

After becoming Miss Chicago, Cloris Leachman made the top 16 at the 20th Miss America pageant

Something tells me the rapturous audience reception for Sunset Boulevard says more about the audience than it does the production.

Something tells me you should see it and then say that, R369.

I've seen clips. I've heard Nicole sing. I'm unimpressed. Plus, this isn't my first trip around the sun, dear. The world has been trained to accept mediocrity as brilliance. I've learned to distrust hype.

[quote]R363 I'm surprised that Cloris Leachman would have been considered pretty or sexy enough for the roles of Abigail in CRUCIBLE and Marie (Terry Moore in the film) in SHEBA.

I thought that, too, but she did start out in beauty pageants (Miss Illinois in the 1946 Miss America Pageant.) And she was a founding member of the Actors Studio, so I guess she had no problem giving great auditions.

I was surprised, looking at her credits, that she’d done 10 Broadway plays by 1959 (including being a replacement Nellie Forbush?!?)

[quote] I wonder if there isn't a bigger story to her leaving both of those productions?

I think there has to be.

She might have been fired from The Crucible?

R372. Slut

I can’t recall who, but some noted actress once said to Cloris, “If I had your tits, I could rule the world “.

Ed Asner revealed on a Gilbert Gottfried podcast that Cloris had a dynamite body and that he lusted after her during the MTM years. She told him if he lost 20 pounds, she’d fuck him. He dieted, lost the weight, but she reneged.

I know nothing - but maybe it was getting down to crunch time and they were pressuring Leachman to change the characterization or something, and she was the kind of strong willed actress who just [italic]walked[/italic]. I’m just imagining scenarios, because Arthur Miller and Tennessee Williams were the biggest playwrights of that era. Who quit their shows on opening night?

So strange.

“I can’t recall who, but some noted actress once said to Cloris, “If I had your tits, I could rule the world “.“

I believe it was Julie Harris.

Since Cloris sang Nellie Forbush, do we see her as a viable Norma? Did Glenn rob her?

Julie wouldn't have known what to do with these babies.

Marilyn Cooper got one of the biggest laughs I ever heard in a theater in On the Town with 'Goodbye Mr Chips.'

I've always been fascinated with the idea of Marilyn Cooper as an ingenue. I can't quite imagine it, considering the rest of her career as a character woman.

[quote] I've seen clips. I've heard Nicole sing. I'm unimpressed. Plus, this isn't my first trip around the sun, dear. The world has been trained to accept mediocrity as brilliance. I've learned to distrust hype.

And I’ve learned to distrust ignorant cynicism.

You haven’t seen it. It doesn’t matter how old you are, you don’t have sufficient information to have an opinion just by traveling around the sun for so long.

[quote]Nicole Scherzinger gives a performance unlike any I have seen, with a very famous sex symbol pop star turned reality host totally becoming a tragic silent film star turned recluse in 1950 with a wink to modern times. It’s impossible really describe how the very avant garde Jamie Lloyd production works, but it seems to hold a place both in 1950 and also in 2023. Perhaps this all sounds like hyperbole...

Yes, and it sounds like bullshit. It's clear that you're exactly the kind of audience Jamie Lloyd is looking for.

[quote]You haven’t seen it. It doesn’t matter how old you are, you don’t have sufficient information to have an opinion just by traveling around the sun for so long.

For the umpteenth time: If someone has seen multiple video clips and photos and has heard multiple recordings of a show, that person can make a solid judgment as to whether they will love or hate a show based on the production concept, the performances, the musical values, and everything else that's evident in those clips and pix and recordings. The main thing that's absent is the experience of sitting in the theater as part of a live audience. But as we all know, audiences today are increasingly apt to cheer bullshit just because they're responding to hype, and also because they paid so much money for tickets that they desperately want to convince themselves that they're having a great time.

[quote]The world has been trained to accept mediocrity as brilliance. I've learned to distrust hype.

Yes, and they've been brainwashed into accepting outrageous directorial license and revisionism and deconstruction as brilliance, see also Ivo van Hove and Daniel Fish.

[quote]I've always been fascinated with the idea of Marilyn Cooper as an ingenue. I can't quite imagine it, considering the rest of her career as a character woman.

When did she play an ingenue? That word certainly doesn't describe her role in ON THE TOWN.

Somewhere in my bookshelves I have a memoir by Cloris. I'll have a look and see if there's any more revealing details (at least from her point of view) of her leaving those 2 early career productions and check back in here.

Though I'm aware of how busy she was as a working TV actress throughout the 50s and 60s, one can only wonder what roles might have been offered her had she created either Abigail in Crucible or Marie in Sheba in those original Broadway productions.

I saw it myself a week ago - going in with heavy skepticism - and my experience was the same as R364 and R367. It is not a perfect show. Some of the nods to 2023 didn't work for me. Some of the make goods for the lack of set didn't work me (that's Norma Desmond, that's Norma Desmond was just weird.) Some of the lyric tweaks didn't work for me either. There is one note Scherzinger holds that's just showing off. Don't know if it's the direction or self-indulgence but it doesn't really add another (except maybe some marvel that anybody could hold a note that long.) The choreography fails at points and works terrifically at others. I think, when you're forging something that different, it's easy to go over the line.

But these are all nits. Overall, the atmosphere in the theatre was electric the whole time. I saw the mothership. It never provoked this kind of response. I didn't know this show could provoke this kind of response. Beneath the gargantuan original set and costumes, there's actually a story here. Comparing, the original seemed try to replicate the film, almost scene for scene, while this somehow captures the spirit of the film while looking nothing like it. It was one of the most exciting, unexpected things I've seen in a theatre in a long time.

[quote]That said, I’m sure many will hate it and may not be the success it currently is in London if it travels.

Yup, the success factor always causes backlash. The critics loved it, including those who came over from New York to review it. Now that's not to say the critics get it right every time... they've often panned shows that become popular successes.

R369, R371 et al just sounds like petulant, wilful snobbery based on some grainy YouTubes. I wasn't sold based on the same and then the curtain went up. So it might be something not to choose to be ignorantly adamant until you've seen the thing.

R385, She was also raising five children during the 1950s and 1960s.

R386, There’s been an excellent quality audio recording of the first preview performance in circulation for weeks.

I had reservations about this Jamie Lloyd production, but what I heard on the audio recording was most impressive.

Cooper was an ingenue in WHOLESALE. And one of the Sharks in WEST SIDE STORY.

The show we were discussing... I Can Get it for You Wholesale. r384. She played the ingenue.

[Quote] For the umpteenth time

Usually, assign you should stop typing.

Why is no one interested in "Here Lies Love?" This should have been the next "Evita."

R392- Not even close.

Here Lies Love is really unfortunate for a number of reasons. There are so many reasons to support it: an original musical with a great premise, beautifully presented, with an appealing all-Filipino cast. And yet, it is so remote and the lyrics (based on real transcripts) so mundane, it is hard to get involved with it or feel much of anything. It's very tempting to compare it to Evita, especially having seen the original production at the same Broadway Theatre. But there, even with some of its inanities, Evita had a point of view on its sacred monster heroine, several women in the role sang it thrillingly, and Hal Prince delivered it all in a muscular, wildly theatrical production. Here Lies Love, by comparison, never rises much above a simmer.

[quote] Usually, assign you should stop typing.

I know another one.

[quote]one can only wonder what roles might have been offered her had she created either Abigail in Crucible or Marie in Sheba in those original Broadway productions.

What did Madeleine Sherwood and Joan Lorring get offered, r385?

Well, they weren't as "beautiful" as Cloris was purported to be, r396.

According to Ron Howard, Cloris put the moves on him when she invited him to her house for a "reading" of a film they were beginning.

In the 1960s, Cloris had to deal with a prolonged affair her husband, George Englund, was having with Joan Collins.

[quote]r392 Why is no one interested in "Here Lies Love?"

It wasn’t a Cloris Leachman vehicle.

So what’s going to the Shubert? Sunset? After Cats and Phantom the Shubert have to do anything ALW wants. Old Friends? What candidate am I missing

Ben Whatshislower has another episode and all he wants to talk about is Betty Buckley workshop again

[quote]The show we were discussing... I Can Get it for You Wholesale. [R384]. She played the ingenue.

Okay, I'll concede that broad classification, but I wouldn't really describe the character as a typical ingenue. And I don't think Cooper's small role as one of the Shark girls in WEST SIDE STORY can be classified as much of anything, it was basically an ensemble role with a few vocal solos in the "America" number.

Parenthetically, Cloris Leachman's son Morgan Englund was scorching hot in the 1986 TV version of William Inge's PICNIC that starred Gregory Harrison and Jennifer Jason Leigh. In fact, he was way too hot for his small role of Bomber Gutzel. But I assume he was cast because the director, Marshall W. Mason, had the hots for him, just as he obviously had the hots for Jeff Daniels in FIFTH OF JULY on stage and on TV :-)

Cloris behaved like an old whore on The Facts of Life set.

[quote]So it might be something not to choose to be ignorantly adamant until you've seen the thing.

Agreed that no one should pass final judgment on a show until they've actually seen the whole thing live, BUT I still think it's reasonable to object to various aspects of a show -- including the overall production concept -- based on video clips, photos, and recordings. For example, in this case, I'm one of those people who feel that the story of SUNSET BOULEVARD does not work at all and becomes complete nonsense if the action is set at any time period other than roughly 1950, and nothing in the show to which I might respond positively as far as the performances, the physical production, the use of video, etc. is going to change that.

On the other hand, for someone who doesn't feel the story is nonsensical when updated, none of the above is going to be a problem. But then that just comes down to a matter of opinion as to what's important in a show and what isn't.

The part Marilyn Cooper played in Wholesale would be considered the ingenue, but could also be considered the leading lady in a way. What she wasn't was a character ingenue or character leading lady. Which is why I brought it up in the first place. The character part was played by some big nosed broad from Brooklyn.

[quote]What did Madeleine Sherwood and Joan Lorring get offered, [R385]?

Madeleine was offered "The Flying Nun"!

Yeah, r408, Cloris was kicking herself until her dying day about that one.

R407, Offstage, Marilyn was enjoying Elliott’s cock, until Barbra showed up.

Seriously, R410? I did not know that.

Marilyn has a face for cave paintings.

R406, it's still set in 1950.

R413, it's still set in 1950???? It certainly doesn't look like that in the clips.

How, exactly, would one set this show in 2023 and retain the many references to Norma having been a star of silent films? Or doesn't logic matter anymore?

[quote]r405 Cloris behaved like an old whore on The Facts of Life set. — Tootie

And she played one in Butch Cassidy…

Well, R414, that's why going by Youtube and Twitter might not be the best way to reach a firm conclusion. Yes, it is still 1950. Same story, same characters, same score. It's just a stylized approach to staging the thing.

[quote]R404 Cloris Leachman's son Morgan Englund was scorching hot in the 1986 TV version of William Inge's PICNIC

I met him before he was on soaps. He had a sunny yet calm disposition, and was classically handsome.

I can report he wasn’t rapey - my friend was a college virgin and casually dating him. He didn’t ever pressure her or try to get her drunk or anything, like other guys did. But the relationship didn’t progress.

R414, Norma still visits DeMille at Paramount in this production and he died in 1959.

To those (or that one poster) who are denying the validity of this new SUNSET BOULEVARD because it doesn't look from photos like it's set in 1950, did you see THE LEHMAN TRILOGY? What did you think of all of those characters of both sexes and all ages over several decades, being played by 3 middle aged men in Victorian frock coats sitting around cardboard storage bins in a big glass box?

I haven't seen this new SUNSET revival but some of you just can't seem to understand one needs to see the entire production (preferably) live to understand what it's attempting to do.

There is a lot of great British (and European) minimalist stage and costume design going on now that strips classic pieces from their historical details, yet doesn't put the action in the 2023 present either. And yet, as bare as all that sounds, incredible stage pictures are achieved and familiar stories can be seen ion a new light.

[quote]Well, [R414], that's why going by Youtube and Twitter might not be the best way to reach a firm conclusion. Yes, it is still 1950. Same story, same characters, same score. It's just a stylized approach to staging the thing.

Okay, that kind of "stylization" makes zero sense to me, but I guess it does to you.

[quote]How, exactly, would one set this show in 2023 and retain the many references to Norma having been a star of silent films? Or doesn't logic matter anymore?

Apparently not. The "logic" that some people here are using is that you can stage a show with very modern-looking costumes, makeup, hairstyles, etc. and yet somehow claim "it's still set in 1950." Sounds like the sort of double-think you might find somewhere in the pages of George Orwell's 1984, or maybe at a present-day Trump rally.

[quote]To those (or that one poster) who are denying the validity of this new SUNSET BOULEVARD because it doesn't look from photos like it's set in 1950, did you see THE LEHMAN TRILOGY? What did you think of all of those characters of both sexes and all ages over several decades, being played by 3 middle aged men in Victorian frock coats sitting around cardboard storage bins in a big glass box?

First of all, I'm among the apparent minority of people who did not care for THE LEHMAN TRILOGY -- or, at least, had the nerve to admit that they didn't care for it, despite all the type. And I actually thought the set for that show, though very cool to look at, did not work well for telling the story. But regardless, to me, LEHMAN had a very different kind of "stylization" than what's going on in the current SUNSET BLVD.

This type of sacrilegious design must be stopped!

Look.. King Lear's wearing a tie! it's ruined. RUINED!

^^ well that’s not what I wanted to link! sorry

[quote]Sounds like the sort of double-think you might find somewhere in the pages of George Orwell's 1984, or maybe at a present-day Trump rally.

r422 - You have zero imagination, are being willfully obtuse and/or you're trolling.

[quote]did you see THE LEHMAN TRILOGY?

Most DLers were too pissy about Adrian Lester "forcing out" Ben Miles to appease "SJWs". Just ignore the fact that Miles chose to withdraw to do The Mirror and the Light.

[quote]or, at least, had the nerve to admit that they didn't care for it

Because anyone with a differing opinion to yours must be lying?

R423, listen to the artistic director's comments. It may open your thinking. Or it may confirm Lawrence Welk reruns are more up your alley.

Hey now— my grandmother liked the Welk show.

This will stay in your head for days.

So sad about Jo Ann Castle.

Yes, there have been many, many Shakespeare productions in modern dress -- first of all because it's much cheaper to do them that way, but also there's the assumption that it's easier for modern audiences to "relate" to that type of production. Still, when all is said and done, it REALLY doesn't make any sense when a King Lear in a modern-day suit and tie starts talking about his knights and making hundreds of other references to a time long before our own. I've even seen productions of Shakespeare plays that added guns to the mix but, of course, kept the original text referring to daggers or other kinds of knives as the weapons being used. To me, that was completely nonsensical, but I'm sure some of you think it just shows my lack of "imagination."

Actually it does, r437.

Given the numerous actresses with fine singing voices who have played Norma since the OBP, Glenn’s voice is made all the more inadequate and confirms that ALW only chose her for her marquee value.

r437, it very much does show your lack of imagination.

Do you really want the LEAR characters in some made-up version of pre-Celtic 8th century costumes when the action is supposedly set...or in the Jacobean doublets and farthingales of Shakespeare's time...for the play to make sense and be relevant?

You are indeed too literal-minded, rule-bound, incurious and stubborn and I feel sorry for you that it limits your enjoyment of some great theatre. Your loss.

[quote]confirms that ALW only chose her for her marquee value.

That never needed confirming, r439.

It is also the case that during Shakespeare's time, characters were dressed in Elizabethan and Jacobean garb, even when playing ancient Romans. But that, of course, was probably nonsensical, too--most theatre IS nonsensical--non-sensical, inspired by suspension of disbelief. R437, you might want to stick to documentaries, they are probably less taxing for you.

Yeah, R440, it's the curious stubbornness that leapt out at me. Interesting stuck for someone interested in theatre.

Having seen both the original version and the revival, the original Sunset was weighted down by the big sets and the costumes.

Agree 100%, R439... Close was a hit because she was playing Cruella De Ville as Norma Desmond... and that "singing." Her attachment to the part is so meta.

[quote]Because anyone with a differing opinion to yours must be lying?

No, not "anyone, of course. But I'd be willing to bet that a fair percentage of people who claimed to love this very long play, in which three actors played scores of characters with basically no change of costumes and a script that consisted almost entirely of "telling" rather than "showing," really did not love or even like it. Rather, I suspect that some of them were intimidated into claiming they did so as not to appear stupid or taste-free, in view of the critical response that turned the show into what I would call a snob hit.

[quote]You are indeed too literal-minded, rule-bound, incurious and stubborn and I feel sorry for you that it limits your enjoyment of some great theatre. Your loss.

Of course, I don't see it that way. And there have been many unconventional productions of old plays and musicals that I have enjoyed because they haven't made nonsense of the scripts and scores. For example, whether one loved or hated or felt indifferent about John Doyle's COMPANY and SWEENEY TODD, in my opinion there was nothing in them that worked against the sense of those shows as written, whereas that is not the case with what I've seen of the new SUNSET BLVD. I guess my perspective on this is just very different from yours, but I'm content with mine.

A now deceased friend of mine, who never lied or embroidered the truth about his past, swore up and down that he personally watched Cloris Leachman enjoying her time as a gang bang gal in a VIP lounge at Studio 54 back in the late 70s. My friend was only a voyeur, never a participant. He was only interested in sucking off the likes of Christopher Atkins in exchange for providing him with blow, insert joke here.

R446, you haven't seen anything of it. You can't even seem to accept it is still set in 1950. Those of us who have seen it are trying to tell you being there is a far different experience than bits and bobs on social. It's fine if you still don't like it but your firm, stubborn conviction it's awful when you haven't seen the whole thing is just... like talking to a stubborn child. But you just enjoy your contentment but, since it's limited, maybe shut up about it once you've made your uninformed point.

[quote]R442 It is also the case that during Shakespeare's time, characters were dressed in Elizabethan and Jacobean garb, even when playing ancient Romans.

And how distracting to have all the female characters played by MEN back then! [italic]That’s not part of the story!![/italic]

VERY distracting. R437’s head would have exploded all over the benches at the Old Globe Theater..

[quote]You haven't seen anything of it. You can't even seem to accept it is still set in 1950.

I can't "accept" that it's still set in 1950 because I don't understand what that means, given the costumes, makeup, etc. But fine, I will make no further comment until such time as I have seen the whole production.

[quote]And how distracting to have all the female characters played by MEN back then! That’s not part of the story!!

All the characters were played by men because women weren't allowed on the stage in those days. The audience accepted that stylization -- if that's what you want to call it -- because they had no other choice. I'm very happy that present-day productions of Shakespeare have women in the women's roles, and I assume you are too, so your comment seems pretty pointless to me.

And then the poor charwomen haf’ ta clean it all up…

All That Chat is back up and running, r334, r336, and r337.

So I checked the Cloris memoir called CLORIS and she tells the story of being enamored of Katharine Hepburn from the age of 8 around 1935 when she saw KH in a touring production of JANE EYRE in Des Moines. Hepburn had heard about Cloris' success in SHEBA in the out of town try out at Westport, CT and asked (through the Theatre Guild) if Cloris would come in and audition for Celia in KH's AS YOU LIKE IT. When Cloris was ultimately offered the role she couldn't resist it even though she knew SHEBA would be a big Broadway hit. But she also says she feared the sexiness of the SHEBA role would have typed her in the wrong way and she was simply more excited to be doing Shakespeare with her hero KH. Oddly, she never mentions Shirley Booth's name.

As for THE CRUCIBLE she says that she found the companmy of actors weird, including Beatrice Straight, hated the director Jed Harris who she repeatedly calls "nuts" and he didn't care much for her either, he thought she looked too sweet for Abigail, and he disliked that she was dating his son. She says that he fired her but she was happy to get out of the play. No mention of Arthur Miller at all. And without ever referring to her understudy Madeline Sherwood by name, says she was always parading before everyone in tight sweaters and pointy bras, so they were all happy when she took over the role.

Glenn Close sold tickets but she also acted the role beautifully and was totally believable as a hasbeen diva. I think it was a mistake for her to revive it decades later because that performance was a little too Carol Burnett as NORA DESMOND.

Sorry if someone else posted this, but it’s an attempt to show Streisand’s staging in Miss Marmelstein.

Thank you, r453. Leachman seems like the confident sort of woman who was willing to let the chips fall where they may. That’s also reflected in her having 5 kids (!)

The only other working actress who comes to my mind who did that is Jeanne Crain. She lived a quiet life married to the same man for 50 years, and had 7 children. One of her contemporaries said, “I could never figure out what she was doing in [italic]Hollywood.”

[quote]Rather, I suspect that some of them were intimidated into claiming they did so as not to appear stupid or taste-free

Whereas you clearly have no problem with that

[quote]R455 an attempt to show Streisand’s staging in Miss Marmelstein.

That song is actually kind of annoying. Especially the background voices. (She’s great, of course.)

Whenever I think of Arthur Laurents finally telling her to “Do it in the goddamn chair!” I imagine his tone like this:

My god, R453, Katherine Hepburn as Jane Eyre? She would've burned down Thornfield before the madwoman in the attic even had a chance.

It doesn't surprise me to hear that someone may have left a lucrative role in a play because of Jed Harris. He was considered to be the nastiest person on Broadway back then. He made Merrick look like a pushover.

His Wiki is a fun read

[quote]Described by The New York Times as "a flamboyant man of intermittent charm", Harris was famous for his self-confidence, appeal to women, and sometimes outrageous and abusive behavior. Playwright and director George S. Kaufman, who worked with Harris on The Royal Family (1927) and The Front Page (1928), reportedly hated him and once said "When I die, I want to be cremated and have my ashes thrown in Jed Harris's face."[2] Although Katharine Hepburn received scathing reviews in the New York production of The Lake (1933) — an experience she later described as "a slow walk to the gallows" — Harris insisted that she and the show go to Chicago. "My dear, the only interest I have in you is the money I can make out of you," Hepburn recalled Harris saying. She extricated herself from the contract by offering Harris all the money she had, $13,675.75; "I'll take it," he said.[4] Laurence Olivier, whom Harris had directed on Broadway in The Green Bay Tree (1933),[2] called him "the most loathsome man I'd ever met." In revenge, Olivier used Harris as the basis for his makeup for his 1944 stage (and later screen) portrayal of Richard III.

And yet, Hepburn’s good friend Ruth Gordon . . .

“In 1929, Gordon was starring in the hit play Serena Blandish when she became pregnant by the show's producer, Jed Harris. Their son, Jones Harris, was born in Paris that year and Gordon brought him back to New York. Although they never married, Gordon and Harris provided their son with a normal upbringing, and his parentage became public knowledge as social conventions changed. In 1932, the family was living discreetly in a small, elegant New York City brownstone.”

Ruth was just happy anyone wanted to fuck her.

Thanks, r452!

This got me to look up Beatrice Straight on IBDB. I forgot that after The Crucible, she wouldn't do Broadway again until Everything in the Garden. Even putting aside William Goldman's attitude toward gays, the description in The Season made Garden sound like a truly awful play.

I love An Open Book...

[quote]Cruella De Ville

It's Cruella DeVil, as in "devil" -- get it?

Jesse Green just called Brandon Victor Dixon “a human aphrodisiac.”

Ew.

He’s not wrong, but…ewww.

Tawdry. And I'll leave it at that.

Cloris found Beatrice Straight weird because she was always sitting the CRIUCIBLE actors down to read their Tarot cards.

Cloris also tells a very funny story about doing a play on Broadway directed by Burgess Meredith called LO AND BEHOLD! in the early 50s in which she came in to replace a fired actress but was constantly thwarted in rehearsals and then onstage by character actress Doro Merande, who had been fond of the original actress and resented Cloris. It got so bad that she brought Doro up on Equity charges.

Nicole Scherzinger won the prestigious Evening Standard Award tonight. So did Jamie Lloyd.

So the brit equivalent of the Outer Critics Circle. Wow.

[quote]R453 without ever referring to her understudy Madeline Sherwood by name, Leachman says she was always parading before everyone in tight sweaters and pointy bras

Says the tramp who shoved her tits in everyone’s face as Miss Chicago?

Rich.

r473 At least the Outer Critics Circle Awards aren't just used as a photo op by the son of a 'former' KGB officer turned oligarch, and who wrote a whiny piece in the paper he used his dad's money to buy, complaining that since the invasion of Ukraine no-one wanted to host the theatre awards (except for Arab oil owned hotels, of course) because he'd defended Putin

r468 but he kind of is

There were plenty of people who thought Close was outrageous in the '94 run of Sunset.

Apparently she started slobbering all over and licking the banister on her way down the staircase at the end. It was too much.

G is always that way after about 9:00 pm. The Drink catches up with her.

Doing Shakespeare in modern dress was once considered creative and innovative, as when the Mercury Theater did "Julius Caesar" in 1937. Brooks Atkinson in the Timases hailed it as a brilliant depiction of mob rule. In the years since, Shakespeare in modern dress has pretty much become de rigueur. I remember seeing a review several years ago of some Shakespeare work in which the critic complained that the production wasn't done in modern dress.

I'm curious to see what happens to HELL'S KITCHEN now. I suspect it will continue its ramrodding to Broadway.

I've always wondered why Barbra was never invited to do Miss Marmelstein on Ed Sullivan or another TV show. Seems like it would be a great boost for a show that needed it.

Is Brandon a homosexualist?

How about setting Taming of the Shrew in the old west?

My GOD!!

How about Candide set in the '50s?

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1966, "Cabaret" opened at the Broadhurst Theatre.

I'd pay good money to see Billy Porter's Tammy Faye Bakker.

Shit, I'd even pay bad money.

*

The "Old West" version of THE TAMING OF THE SHREW at the Delacorte was one of the best, most enjoyable productions of Shakespeare that I've ever seen, so there definitely are exceptions to my general rule that "updating" usually doesn't work. Of course, there were lines in the play that didn't really make any sense in the new setting, but somehow it didn't seem to matter at all. I guess it all comes down to how well the production is directed and acted.

Also, for several reasons, I think updating tends to work better with the comedies than with the dramas, tragedies, and historical plays. All of which maybe explains why, for example, I thought the OTHELLO at NYTW with David Oyelowo and Daniel Craig was absolutely one of the worst, most nonsensical Shakespeare productions I've ever seen. Directed by Sam Gold, which of course had a lot to do with it as well.

Billy Porter can’t play Tammy Faye because Billy Porter is already committed to a show this is transferring from London.

Billy Porter

*IS*

Tuesday night Norma Desmond

So will the Alecia Key's musical still take The Shubert after the mixed reviews and Jesse's "It needs work..." review?

R491, for God's sake don't tell R446.

Right, R493. I'm sure I'm the only person on the face of the earth who would be horrified by the idea of Billy Porter playing Norma Desmond.

Are the concepts of metaphor and symbolism completely alien to you, R490? Modern dress isn't meant to suggest everything on stage is taking place RIGHT NOW, it's meant to highlight certain themes and connect them to the modern day. Sure some directors are far too literal about it, but so are you.

You may have hit on the problem, R495: Some directors are far too literal about it. Like when Sam Gold directed OTHELLO with lots of people onstage carrying guns, but there were still references to swords and daggers, and Othello still killed Desdemona by suffocating her. If you think I'm "too literal" because I found it weird to see all those guns on stage but with no one ever using them or even referring to them, so be it.

Again, the Old West TAMING OF THE SHREW was one of the best Shakespeare productions I've ever seen, maybe because that director (A.J. Antoon) had a better understanding of metaphor and symbolism. And maybe also because the specific concept for updating that comedy worked better than the concept for updating OTHELLO.

I was so sad to have missed the Ullman/Freeman production of Taming of the Shrew. My friend and I had gotten tickets towards the end of the run, finished our own show on a Sunday matinee, went to dinner and just as we were about to leave, the sky opened up and it poured for the rest of the evening. Performance canceled.

Jill, eh.

Dan Sullivan's MERCHANT OF VENICE with Pacino updated to 1900 was one of the best Shakespeares I've ever seen. It totally felt like Shakespeare had written it for that period.

Bless your heart, R494. Don't jump in the lake.

R497, sorry you missed it. I wish that production had been televised.

After you, R500. And unless you are NOT horrified by the idea of Billy Porter playing Norma Desmond, your sarcastic, bitchy comment makes no sense.

Darling, very little makes sense to you unless it's don't touch the stove or look both ways. You're a literal moron.

Ah, so then you LOVE the idea of Billy Porter as Norma Desmond. Bless your heart, R503!

Maybe Baz Lurhmann's Romeo and Juliet is more your speed, R490 et al. They updated it to the 90s, but look the guns have "sword" engraved on them! Now you don't have to torture yourself about where the swords are.

Now listen to me dear, quit while you're ahead. You clearly aren't cut out for this place if you don't understand that Billy Porter as Norma Desmond is a joke made at your expense.

Lady Roth is now acting

Nobody is saying it always works, r496. Personally, on the little bit I've seen of this Sunset, I think I see what they're going for in making the piece more layered. I'm not dismissing it out of hand.

[quote]You clearly aren't cut out for this place if you don't understand that Billy Porter as Norma Desmond is a joke made at your expense.

I'm well aware that it was a joke at my expense. But it was an inept one, because it implied that I would be horrified by the thought of Billy Porter as Norma Desmond -- and of course I am, as anyone with any taste would be.

Yeah, you don't seem very aware as you're clutching pearls over something plainly meant in jest.

BILLY PORTER WAS FORCED TO DO GREASE!

[quote]Some directors are far too literal about it. Like when Sam Gold directed OTHELLO with lots of people onstage carrying guns, but there were still references to swords and daggers, and Othello still killed Desdemona by suffocating her. If you think I'm "too literal" because I found it weird to see all those guns on stage but with no one ever using them or even referring to them, so be it.

R496=Anton Chekhov

[quote]Alecia Key's

DOUBLE "oh, dear."

r510

god I hate him! He could have turned down the fucking role

He's so fucking full of shit. I was on Broadway during that revival and he was strutting around like he was cock of the walk. Meanwhile, everyone thought he oversang it, and when Jennifer Holiday took over the role, we all came from other shows to stand in the back to watch her as much as we could.

Did any Chicago DL'ers see first performance of BOOP! yesterday?

R515 I don't think there were any survivors.

Did she boop her last boop?

Oh good, a man is going to tell us all we don't know about vaginas.

I predict BOOP will be a bigger bomb than SLIH. On similar lines.

What similar lines, r519?

I saw Billy play James “Thunder” Early in a one night performance of Dreamgirls starring Lillias White and Heather Headley. This was not long after September 11.

I didn’t know who Billy was, but he definitely oversang the role and was too effeminate to be believable.

He was the weakest link in the cast.

Billy made Beauty School Dropout into a 10 minute number. Which was 11 minutes too long.

[quote]Some directors are far too literal about it. Like when Sam Gold directed OTHELLO with lots of people onstage carrying guns.

The Shakespeare Theatre Company in D.C. went well beyond modern dress with its production of "Hamlet" a few years ago, starring Michael Urie in the title role. Lots of video, lots of characters using cellphones. The play itself got lost along the way, and although Urie did his best, he was surrounded by some really lousy actors.

[quote]God I hate him! He could have turned down the fucking role

Nothing more annoying than an actor trashing or whining about a good role after the fact. even when it was early in their careers. Reminds me of when Jason Alexander gave an interview saying how he was offered his role in JEROME ROBBINS' BROADWAY more than once before finally accepting after they finally managed to talk him into it. Mind, you, that was before SEINFELD, when he was a virtual nobody with only a couple of minor roles in a couple of Broadway shows to his credit, including the tremendous flop MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG.

[quote]I saw Billy play James “Thunder” Early in a one night performance of Dreamgirls starring Lillias White and Heather Headley. This was not long after September 11. I didn’t know who Billy was, but he definitely oversang the role and was too effeminate to be believable.

He must have oversung it in rehearsal, as well, because on the night of that performance, he was in pretty major vocal distress. So much so that they, while they originally planned to release a live recording of the show, they wound up re-recording most or all of the vocals -- including his -- in a studio.

What were the reasons for his hesitation, r524?

Yes, R524, because the way you stated it, maybe he felt he wasn't up to doing multiple roles in the show or didn't think he could handle it vocally, rather than "this is beneath me, grovel for my services."

R524, And he won a Tony for JRB.

{quote]Yes, [R524], because the way you stated it, maybe he felt he wasn't up to doing multiple roles in the show or didn't think he could handle it vocally, rather than "this is beneath me, grovel for my services."

I'm not sure what you mean by "the way I stated it," but although I don't recall all the details of why Jason Alexander had to be talked into the role in JRB, I do remember the interview well enough to know that it certainly wasn't because he didn't think he could handle it.

Okay, I found the NY Times interview with the Jason Alexander quotes about his being reluctant to do JEROME ROBBINS' BROADWAY. Here are the relevant paragraphs, so judge for yourself:

[quote]Although Mr. Alexander has had more than a few hits - for example, he created the role of Stanley in Neil Simon's 'Broadway Bound' - experience had impelled him to move toward a career 'as a straight actor, not as a song-and-dance man,' he said.

[quote]So when he was asked to audition for Jerome Robbins, 'I resisted it in every way I could,' Mr. Alexander recalled. 'I got the idea that I was being asked to host the equivalent of a Jerome Robbins Tony Award Special.'

[quote]Mr. Alexander 'canceled the first two auditions,' he said, and before the third he told Mr. Robbins, 'I don't want to go back to Broadway. And then J. R. asked me to do Tevye, and I'd only been working on that role for 20 years! And I thought what a great experience it would be to work with him, and. . . .' he paused. 'Well, he charmed me into doing the show.'

[quote]so judge for yourself

Yeah, r530, I understand his hesitation the way he explains it. It's not like he bashed the role(s) afterwards.

I see your point, R531. And although I don't agree with his reasons for hesitating, obviously they were valid for him, so that's perfectly fine. My problem is that I don't think he should have gone on record in a New York Times interview about how hesitant he was to take a leading role in a Broadway show in which he would be working directly with Jerome Robbins, when there were so many other actors who would have given their eyeteeth for such an opportunity. If you disagree, that's fine too.

Jason had very weak competition when he won his Tony.

Jason Alexander – Jerome Robbins' Broadway as Various Characters

Gabriel Barre – Starmites as Trinkulus/Shak Graa

Brian Lane Green – Starmites as Spacepunk

Robert La Fosse – Jerome Robbins' Broadway as Various Characters

He was still deserving, r533. It was a great show.

The 1989 season is perhaps the worst in history. HIV/AIDS had destroyed the artists and the mega musical thing was the vibe at the time, for better and worse. In that season there was nothing coming in, Miss Saigon was waiting to arrive and all that that was, it’s the saddest season of last 30 years.

Starmites should have a Soecial Tony for worst possible title of a musical.

How sad that MISS SAIGON was considered a savior.

Did Jason Alexander give that interview during the SEINFELD run? If so, he must have felt at the top of his game, very secure in his career and set financially for the rest of his life.

It’s regrettable…and yet fitting that out of all of the stars of Merrily We Roll Along it would be Jason Alexander that would walk away as the Tony winner.

Years from now, we’ll be agog at [italic] Casey Nicholaw’s Broadway [/italic] . all the highlights from some like it hot, Tuck Everlasting, Aladdin and MORE.

And [italic] Rob Ashford’s Broadway. [/Italic] with Jason Alexander as Dream Skipper.

What is this podcast that only talks about Betty Buckley's workshop?

I'm interested!

[quote]It’s regrettable…and yet fitting that out of all of the stars of Merrily We Roll Along it would be Jason Alexander that would walk away as the Tony winner.

Maybe that will change next year.

[quote]Did Jason Alexander give that interview during the SEINFELD run? If so, he must have felt at the top of his game, very secure in his career and set financially for the rest of his life.

No. Incredibly, it was in 1989, shortly after the opening of JEROME ROBBINS' BROADWAY and before SEINFELD. And regardless of when the interview happened, I think he never should have said those things, for the reasons I've given.

[quote]It’s regrettable…and yet fitting that out of all of the stars of Merrily We Roll Along it would be Jason Alexander that would walk away as the Tony winner.

[quote]Maybe that will change next year.

Umm, I don't think so, because the other poster was obviously referring to the original production of MERRILY.

I totally got what Jason was talking aout. He thought he was basically going to be the MC for "the best-of Robbins" show. That makes sense.

[quote]I think he never should have said those things, for the reasons I've given.

Yes, we know.

I'm with you, r546.

R546, then maybe he should have found out a bit more about what they wanted him to do in the show before he canceled two auditions.

Whatever. As I said, I think it's bad form to give an interview in which you state that you canceled two auditions for a major role in a Broadway show in which you'd be working with a theater legend, when hundreds of other actors would give anything to be asked to audition for such a role.. Plus, I'm surprised he went into all that in the interview because it also makes him look stupid for almost missing out on a role that wound up winning him a Tony Award.

Jeezus Christ, give it a rest.

Let’s get back to discussing Cloris.

Judging from the past few threads, r548 is chronically incapable of giving it a rest. And yes, it's the poster you're all guessing it is.

[quote]Starmites should have a Soecial Tony for worst possible title of a musical.

Suffs!

...the actress

I miss the space Starmites played in. The Criterion Center Stage Right (later taken on by the Roundabout with two functioning theaters, one Broadway, one Off-Broadway) was a fantastic place to see theater. I saw so many production there in the short time it was open. Great sight lines and acoustics, decent seats, great, expansive lobby. And they tore it down to build a Toys R Us.

The 1990s was such an odd time for commercial real estate. The whole campaign to clean NYC up and make it more tourist friendly really caused a lot of incredibly expensive false starts. Does anyone remember when they transformed 42nd Street the first time, in the mid-90s, closed all the porn and crappy movie theaters, brought in a bunch of restaurants and stores (which caused nearly 2 years of scaffolds that made those streets impossible to navigate) only to close 85% of them within a year or two and they rebuilt again?

[quote]Oh good, a man is going to tell us all we don't know about vaginas.

Well, men ARE the authorities on what we don't know.

I actually want to talk about the '94 Grease. Was there some sort of effort to make the night longer? A five-minute "Those Magic Changes"? An eight-minute "Beauty School Dropout"?

Ewnmwmbwe, Cloris Leachman's bête noire was fat people.

"There should be no fat people, fat is ugly. We would all be healthier if no one were fat. I just can't bear fat bodies. I think there should be fat catchers, like dog catchers, to go around and put big nets over fat people and take them all someplace and get them slimmed down. And then show them what really good eating is. Because what they're doing is advertising their unhappiness and their anger or frustration for everyone to see, and I don't want to see it." --Cloris Leachman, quoted in the 1976 December issue of Family Circle

I want to see "Josh Logan's Broadway" myself.

[quote]Cloris Leachman's bête noire was fat people.

How amusing that she lived to such a ripe old age that she got to see Americans get fatter and fatter and fatter.

Regrettable…and yet fitting. WTf?

[quote]I actually want to talk about the '94 Grease. Was there some sort of effort to make the night longer? A five-minute "Those Magic Changes"? An eight-minute "Beauty School Dropout"?

Sweetie, when you have Sam Harris singing "Those Magic Changes" and Biily Porter doing "Beauty School Dropout" why rush it?

[quote] What is this podcast that only talks about Betty Buckley's workshop?

It's the Podcast "Giants in the Sky," and the hostess asks every guest, with increasing breathlessness, if they were there for the Buckley workshop, if they [italic] heard [/italic] anything about the Buckley workshop, if know [italic] anything, PLEASE [/italic] about the Buckley workshop. So far, pretty much bupkis. and it's making him crazy.

That photo of young Cloris at r550 should put to rest any questions about why she had to wait until she was a middle aged character actress before she found her niche in Hollywood.

[quote]Does anyone remember when they transformed 42nd Street the first time, in the mid-90s, closed all the porn and crappy movie theaters, brought in a bunch of restaurants and stores (which caused nearly 2 years of scaffolds that made those streets impossible to navigate) only to close 85% of them within a year or two and they rebuilt again?

No, I don't remember that. There are always a fair number of stores and restaurants that are going to have short lives, but I don't remember any major "rebuilding" after 42nd St. was transformed "the first time." I am kind of amazed that one large old theater -- I forget the name of it -- on the north side of the street near the center of the block remains completely empty and unrenovated, and it certainly doesn't look like any work is being done on it.

Speaking of Betty Buckley whatever happened to that blog made during her Gypsy where the chorus boy wrote that Betty screamed at the director that she didn’t “memorize lines, she memorized intentions” when he told her the line was wrong?

R565, I assume that was the same chorus boy who later did a whole cabaret show about being in GYPSY with BB? I saw that show, and it was AMAZING.

R565, Were the stories true about BB giving head to members of the backstage crew during Sunset Blvd.?

Cloriis Leachman was Miss Chicago 1946 and competed in the Miss America pageant.

She was clearly an attractive and personable 20 young woman.

But. looking through all those photos at r568, Cloris did not have the face of a 20 year old ingenue when she was 20. Nothing wrong with that and she clearly knew to pursue other ambitions.

The Times Square, R564.

Is "How to Dance in Ohio" as dismal as it sounds?

Thanks, R570.

Betty Boop posted on their TikTok page some videos. The songs and dance numbers look very good. Whoever is playing Betty is gonna be a star. She's very good.

very good and very good. You're ready for Vulture, r573

Good to hear, r573.

New 42, the organization that oversaw the rehabilitation of 42nd Street, really failed in a number of ways. Cora Cahan, the former founding president of New 42, determined that the seven surviving theatres on that street would not all be used for Broadway productions. But the theatres that did return to legit use are just about the only things that have worked on that block and that have stayed open. The New Amsterdam is of course the jewel of the block, but the Selwyn/American Airlines is a cozy place to see a show, even if Roundabout bombs there, more often than not. What is now the Lyric is a Frankenstein's monster, but at least it finally has a hit with Harry Potter. The New Victory serves a purpose as a children's theatre.

But the Harris, which was a relatively intact single balcony house, was unceremoniously demolished. The Empire, with a half-hearted, cheap restoration, is just a lobby for the bedbug-ridden AMC Theatres. The Liberty, where the Astaires once danced in Gershwin's Lady, Be Good!, is largely underutilized, marooned behind a defunct diner. And as noted, the Times Square has not found use in 30+ years, despite five or six plans announced for it. Supposedly, it can't return to legit use for a few reasons, including that its loading dock was cut off when the Lyric was built. So, if you were tasked with the project of finding use for seven theatres and you fail with four of them, it's not a great batting average.

But Rudy save Manhattan! He was a municipal genius! That’s what the DL crackers tell us over and over.

Jimmy Coco was the sweetest man. He got along with everyone. Except Cloris and it wasn't just the fat people comment. He said she was the only person he ever worked with that he really hated and she was every bit as unprofessional as he had heard

I still remember when Cloris was on The Tonight Show and that was when she was on her health kick. She was talking about vitamins and told Johnny that if he took them his hair would change back to it's natural color to which he responded "so will yours."

Doris Roberts hated Cloris also and wrote about her in her memoir.

However, her acting peers loved her as they awarded her 8 Emmys. People don’t vote for people they hate

Don’t forget her Oscar! She looked gorgeous and timelessly beautiful which you can’t say about every 1970’s Oscar winner.

Cloris was in a movie with a friend of mine years ago, and every time Cloris would see her, she'd come over and say "You're so UGly! " A horrible woman, but a great actress.

Is it time to start a new thread?

[bold]THEATRE GOSSIP #544: The “Here Lies Cloris” Edition[/bold]

??

Well, haven't we pretty much covered her in this thread?

What did Doris say about Cloris? Please don't bore us, get to the chorus!

love this

[quote]R583 Well, haven't we pretty much covered her in this thread?

This is true.

Cloris Lavoris!

R573. I saw those Boop videos, too and I agree. Looks very polished and lots of fun.

Clorox Bleachman

I only saw Cloris in MTM but when I saw her in the Mel Brooks movies I was blown away.

I'm looking forward to it.

Her Nellie Forebush

(I think with George Britton)

Was Cloris ever in " Follies!" ?

Somebody start a new thread and post a link to it here, ASAP

It was basically Phyllis's follies, r593.

[quote]Her Nellie Forebush

Oh, dear.

Link to new thread

Farewell, Bajour!

Farewell, Cloris Leachman!

Farewell, Forebush!

Whatever...