Trump plans dictatorship

This needs more publicity - it's their plan called 2025.

Scary as fuck - and it's just what we ALL suspected.

Republicans and conservatives in power don't give a FUCK about laws or the people. It's about endless power, money and fuck anyone who gets in their way.

Imagine if a Dem did this?

We the People have always been the enemy to republicans

Average Americans have never been good at what MIGHT happen. They live in the moment. This is why the democrats need to drop the extremist far left fringe bullshit and win back the moderate votes. Trans’ing kindergartners, open borders, rampant inflation, no punishment for criminals stealing every purse at TJMAXX, constant white guilt lectures from POC racists who don’t think they’re racists, and FREE PALESTINE is not the way forward. Unfortunately the progressives live in the moment too and are too dumb and blind to see the mess they’re creating. The woke pendulum is swinging backwards and these dumbfucks pushing these alienating agendas only think things are bad now. Most people just want to raise their kids, go to work, and buy some cheap food on the way home. Remember who the majority is in this country… and it’s not who the TV commercials would have you believe.

None of which they are oing R3. Are you that fucking dumb? Today it's trans kids, four years ago it was black lives matter. Republicans set this up every time and every time morons like you fall for it. Or did you forget that Kaitlyn Jenner is a lifelong Republican? I cannot believe how stupid you are.

BTW inflation was higher under Trump

And it's just a joke. The party which respects no law or rule posing as the "law and order" party as if they have EVER done anything about crime other than looting the nation.

R4 is incoherent

No I'm not incoherent . You are R7, you sniveling moron. Literally a million people are paid to lie to you every single fucking day and you don't recognize it. for what it is.

R3 - well, I think that some of those issues are only presented by a small few, but yes - they get a lot of bad publicity and feed the right-wing machine.

What the Dems should be going on about is how the red states rank in terms of healthcare, education, homicide, abortion, economy, etc.

They're always get the lowest 9 out of 10 states and very few EVER rank in the top.

Life in a red state is a NIGHTMARE for most people, but they act like it's the Dems fault. How? They need to run on the bad government and bad metrics - and also with the Roe v. Wade issue and other things.

This proposal basically calls for concentration camps.

And U.S. Americans will just sit there and let it happen, while watching the Kardashians and Real Housewives.

Is Trump gaining any supporters at this point?

Honest question.

Psychics are predicting he will win next year. I just hope they're not really psychic.

I think Trump will be much more open to reforming the judicial and law enforcement systems.

Hates “shithole countries”, wants to turn us into one. Calls all the trials a fraud but he commits the actual fraud himself.

[quote]Psychics are predicting

People are saying ..

Here's the Project 2025 website:

"Project 2025 is made up of a broad coalition of conservative organizations that have come together to ensure a successful administration begins in January 2025. The project will build on four pillars that will, collectively, pave the way for an effective conservative administration: a policy agenda, personnel, training, and a 180-day playbook. The Heritage Foundation is joined by more than 75 partner organizations in this effort to ensure that the transition team is ready on Day One".

And here's a list of 75 conservative organizations which are involved with Project 2025:

And Project 2025 is organized by The Heritage Foundation. They have a very scary website and they're coming for the gays.

My god. We're so fucked.

Turd's just amping-up the shilling, trying to decipher what will energize the crazies to donate. His legal fees will be in the hundreds of millions by this time next year. A good chunk of his fortune having gone to pay-off fines, debts and judgments.

They are in dire straits.

I'm pointing the finger at the Media. Yes. They have normalized this POS. I get it. Back when he was generating high ratings and acting like a prize asshole. But we have now had an insurrection. He has been convicted of rape in a civil trial. He has been indicted 4 times. He is facing at least 91 criminal charges. He has said if he gets back in the White House he will shit on our Constitution. And yet the Media still plays the fucking "both sides " game. YOu've got people like Mitt Romney saying out loud that The Republican Party no longer supports the Constitution. It is plain. Obvious. But yet we have the poorest journalism I have every seen. It is disgusting. The man should be treated as a pariah. The Republican Party should be treated as a criminal organization. Years ago we had a Red Scare. We demonized Communists and communism. People were para noid about Communists lurking around every corner. But the real threat is clear. It's Present. And our media has become a propaganda tool.

He ain't winning shit.

The media is controlled by libertarian shitstains. But they are only a small piece of the puzzle now. The larger reality is a very well organized social media campaign, also run by libertarian shitstains.

r8 Bless your heart. Delusion is a fun thing, isn't it

The country "elected" him once - and they will try again. So many closet Trumpers will come out of the woodwork next time around. God help us all.

His mouth still looks like an asshole.

Who would vote for someone who’s mouth looks like an asshole?

How is this surprising?

[quote] The country "elected" him once - and they will try again.

So what? They tried in 2020 as well, and they lost.

I have a feeling that there are fewer of them around than there were in 2016.

I just want the fat fuck to die of a heart attack on camera!

On camera, off camera, on the McDonald's toilet, in a submersible, on a SpaceX flight - any way will do R30!

He will win.

And good.

The stock market will improve.

None of it means anything. It’s just like watching Bravo. Sheeple.

The powerful and rich will determine what happens next.

So keep tuning into MSNBC Fox and the like, and pretend you have a say.

You don’t.

This is the world today.

Accept it or get out of the way.

Is r32 posting from a third-rate, red-state MFA program?

When he starts to face actual legal consequences for his behavior, his posts will evolve from stuff like this into directly commanding his supporters to attack the government or to attack their liberal neighbors. He will do ANYTHING to win and protect his narcissistic dogma that he is the king of the world and incapable of lies or mistakes. We're less than a year away from his "it's time to kill the Democrats" post.

Has the New York Times reported on why this is bad news for Biden?

I think R32 is posting from 1937 Germany, R33.

I can't believe Trump is still so relevant on the national stage. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised. I miss the brief period of respite, 2021-2022, which he didn't seem as much of a threat.

^^^ which = when

Not enough FFs in the world for R32.

r32 here.

It’s not that. I am liberal.

It’s that I’ve been thinking, this is all just spectacle. Rome did it with the gladiator fights.

Keep the masses confused. Fighting (even though they’re all the same to this with the real power)

Who do you think owns all of the media?

We are the ants.

And it’s sad. But that’s where society is at present.

And in 50 years? AI

Lay off the bud, r40

Agree with R22 and R24 with my whole heart.

If R32/R40 wants to give up, let her. But block her and ignore her, too. The rest of us can't afford to ("Dictatorship will be GREAT for the stock market, hurr durr!") roll over and present hole to fascists.

?Drain the swamp" He is the swamp and everybody knew it last time around. They knew he was a fraud and a tax cheat and they elected him anyway just because he was also a racist.

Jennifer Rubin used to be a Republican. She left the party when Trump got elected. This is her Sunday, 11/12 column. This is at least the second time she has excoriated the news media and the coverage of the threat we're facing.

And please keep in mind, R37 and the rest of us, the media sets the agenda. They have made him relevant. They have normalized him. With all we know, and with all we have seen, and with all they have publicly stated, why is the media allowing this? It's not just Libertarian shitstains, although they're certainly a part of it. The people orchestrating this propaganda campaign know exactly what they're doing.

This Christian Nationalist/Neo Fascist movement is being fuel by so called "invisible hands" that have to be exposed. We can say it's the Steve Bannons, and Roger Stones, and Michael Flynns, and it is, but who is paying them? Who is behind this? It's not being reported. Not being covered. Instead we get some "both sides" bullshit. It's very discouraging.

I remember watching documentary footage of the insurrection that had some very interesting analysis. I think the doc may have been focused on Proud Boys. But what was important is that you had cells of militias and Proud Boys, who were encouraging and agitating and spurring the mob to follow them. Trump whipped them up and they were pushed along by the the organized elements.

I thought that was important to know. That's how easy it is to fuel mobs. They get caught up in the moment and they are directed by organizers. That insurrection as a deliberate, planned attempt to stop government from functioning, and they are still at it. I feel like we're in free fall, and the people who could do something to expose it are turning a blind eye to it.

R22 here. I meant to sign that I posted at R44.

People start paying attention to fascism and kids in cages when it happens under Republicans but are totally blind to it when it happens under Democrats. The far left is basically the only group even calling out any of this in a real way as it has been happening on both sides, but you want to silence them, too.

If he wins, all the babygays and LGBTQers that have been running around being gay gaY GAY and trans trANS TRANS for the past two decades are in for a REALLY rude awakening.

Get your shit together now. Have an alternate plan for your currently legal marriage. Pull in lawyers NOW.

“Why is American mass media embracing fascism?”

I answered this in 1976!

R40 enjoy the stock market from your cell in the interment camp.

You think that’s hysterical hyperbole.

I know better.

Everything is much older than you know, and everything old happens again.

Someone will be Charles Isherwood and write “Farewell to America.”

“It can’t happen here!”

It already is.

The network media doesn't do any serious investigating. They are fed information and just regurgitate it.

Trump this Trump that Oh my Trump Trump Trump

It’s the people behind that 2025 document and the Mike Johnson’s and those far worst than the Mike Johnson’s you need to worry about. Trump is todays flavor.

You really think it was trumps idea to have this 2025 project? If he wants anything it will be revenge. And criminal charges. Lots of them. Democracy as you know it will be over.

You lose this election and the younger people are really screwed. This will be decades you will live with the results of this election,

Camps for immigrants.? You don’t want the Mike Johnson’s in charge when there is an epidemic of infectious running thru the gay community. You might find out what camps are really all about.

Trump wishes he could grow a beard like that shadow

Praying he dies. Soon.

Sorry, r46, Dems aren't fascist. It was Trump who tried to install himself as a dictator

[quote] Jennifer Rubin used to be a Republican.

She made a living claiming to be conservative. She followed the money and dropped the conservative charade when the market opened up for “former conservatives”.

This is such a waste of time. He’ll be long gone by next November. His senility will escalate to an genuinely alarming degree by the summer.

Yeah, r56. I've been waiting for that since 2015.

Any day now.

It's astonishing this isn't more "newsworthy"... this a real, documented plan to subvert the Constitution and establish a dictatorship. That's not hyperbole, not partisan anti-Trump propaganda it is Trump's "promise" to MAGA, who prefer Trump to the Republic.

We are brutalized and numbed by the digital onslaught of mis-information, too much information, targeted information.

Boiling frogs, r58.

r3 = credulous reader of the Daily Mail.

If he wins the election of 2024 it will likely be our last national election. My maga relatives would joyfully support trump as. ‘president for life’ . . If he wins are leaving the US. Dangerous times for our fragile nation and this is not hyperbole

Fuck off, R57. It’s clearly escalating now. Pay attention.

It's been "escalating" since 2015, and I have been paying attention, r62.

This book was published in 2017. And yet -- he's still with us, six years later, and leading the Republican primary contenders by a wide margin.

He is getting this information out to the public to try to scare the prosecutors of all his legal cases. It is no coincidence that this is all over the news right at the same time that fake Siena/NYT Poll (paid for by Harlan Crow) and right when he and his kids took the stand in his fraud trial. He wants the judge, and the AG to think he will get revenge when he wins thinking they will drop the case or render a verdict in his favor out of fear.

Ew, r59.

Are the people predicting a Trump dictatorship at all aware that he couldn’t even order his limousine to be driven to the Capitol on 1/6, because he was countermanded? A president can’t do anything without the government apparatus fulfilling it or not.

Like Truman famously said about Eisenhower, “He’ll sit here, and he’ll say, ‘Do this! Do that!’ And nothing will happen. Poor Ike—it won’t be a bit like the Army. He’ll find it very frustrating.”

R66

And you think trump would hire people this time that would try to tell him no? Not a chance. He learned from that mistake,

This time you would see Trump Unleashed ——-with immunity for him and all his followers. Nothing including Congress or the Supreme Court to stop him.

If Mike Pence had made a different decision this would have been a much different story today,

Unleashed with nothing to slow him down and him full of revenge. This will be the trump revenge tour if re-elected. The courts will be busy. More busy.

R64 nailed it. He's putting this info out in a lame attempt to try and intimidate the AGs prosecuting him. He's nothing more than a mob boss, threatening to burn down the shop if you don't do what he wants.

As last week's non-presidential year elections showed, it was another blue wave. He ain't getting back in, normal Americans don't want the chaos and instability of the GQP. So calm the fuck down. That said, people need to get out and vote. He will win if people are complacent again and don't vote.

Just be glad he's in his late 70s, and not early 50s.

r44, This is the video you're referring to. I thought it would be a game changer, the NYT shows their planning, tactics and strategy. But for the bombs not going off, a handful of unarmed cops, and that not a single BLM protester was there to kill whitey for FOX news to film, we'd be living in his dictatorship today.

This is worth 17 minutes of your time.

R67, the political appointees are only a tiny percentage of the over 2 million federal government workers. He can’t operate without the government apparatus going along.

After Trump was elected in 2016, I stopped reading the news for about three months.

I might do that again. Nothing will convince me to not vote blue in November, and the stress of worrying about the end of the US as we know it is not healthy or productive.

R71

Our federal govt and our military are very apolitical. Sure the career people can slow stuff down, can leak to the press, delay or try to modify bad policy.

But when the secretary of your Dept orders your Dept to do something it usually gets done. It almost always gets done. Because that is the way it’s supposed to work, Not to be political for or against any admin but to carry out the orders your political bosses have given you and do your job...

There will be no career employee resistance.

R66 R71 et. al.

There would be a curious irony that the US Military would protect the Republic. However, other "unreachable" segments of our government did become/still are MAGA controlled, witness the US Supreme Court. Orban, Netanyahu, Erdogan, Ortega...other dictators secure their power by controlling judiciary and military.

Will our institutions hole? Not completed assured they will.

[quote] Will our institutions hole?

Is that like presenting hole?

Do you think he will get the nomination from the GOP? I’m starting to wonder. That won’t stop him, but it would be interesting to see Nikki Haley roll ahead of him.

I’ll still be voting blue, although the Dems are very frustrating.

He needs to die. However that occurs. But he needs to die.

[quote]I’ll still be voting blue, although the Dems are very frustrating.

How *big* of you, r76.

R76 - he pretty much has the nomination. Who else would it be?

R76 R78 That's all ok. 2024 is a survival election - the tent is very, very Big for those who love democracy. Together.

A coalition of the rational.

If Trump gets elected my partner’s Trump loving relatives better not come crying to us and shaking their cups when their government benefits get taken away.

r66, A successful govt takeover-coup requires senior military complicity. Up to now ,We have been lucky the career military folks have (mostly) been anti-trump. We might not remain so lucky. Ever wonder why Tommy Tuberville is holding up all those military nominations? There are some who suspect Trump has promised Tuberville a big reward if they can defer (and cancel) these current nominations until Trump wins-and he can have his own list of hand picked list of military functionaries/toadies. Straight from the 'dictator' 101 handbook

That the Senate hasn't circumvented Tumorville shows other Repig senators that they, too, can gum up that branch of our government.Anytime they fancy. The other senators have already given Repig congressional terrorists the roadmap and permission, by allowing this to go on, to this point.

Sometimes rules need to be updated. This is one of those times. They need to stop dithering like toothless losers and get it done.

Are they just going to sit with their thumbs up their ass and hope he changes his mind? Pathetic.

To the naysayers who think "someone " will stop it from happening: The people behind Trump, and the guys like Bannon, Flynn and Stone, have learned from January 6th, and all the stages that came before it. They will correct things to make sure they succeed. They have not stopped trying. And they now know who they can count on.

If Trump wins, I'm moving to North Korea.

It's absolutely the worst case scenario. Even moderate Christians will be okay with it. Truly terrifying. Which is the most left wing gun company?

[quote]Which is the most left wing gun company?

The other side has been stockpiling for decades, r86.

[quote]The other side has been stockpiling for decades, [R86].

So we just need to catch up.

No chance of doing that at this point, r88.

I’m so tired of this fat loser being in the news. He isn’t winning anything in 2025.

He is dumb to not officially start his own religion. Churches are tax exempt. He has a built in base of fools who would grow them every dime they have and go into debt, to toss him more. He could go full Warren Jeffs and have a dozen underage "wives".

Why be president when he could be a god?

What a short-sighted mother fucker.

[quote]Why be president when he could be a god?

Because being a god doesn’t shield him from prosecution.

R44 Celebrity news journalists like Jennifer Rubin (and her ilk) are extremely rich. Day to day issues most people face will never affect their lives one way or another. This is why they write about concepts. Not about why the federal minimum wage is still $7.25 and hour. Or about health care bankrupting people. Or the homeless crisis. They get you all worked up into thinking “this election will be our last’ (every four years) so you won’t think about how everyday life is getting worse every day.

R93 "Celebrity news journalists" = telltale terminology of rightwing think tank propaganda. "Her ilk" = vaguely, what, antisemitic?

News flash: Democrats want to raise the minimum wage, and have done so in several states.

News flash: Republicans want to get rid of food stamps, end social security, cut taxes for billionaires (none of that is overstated, documented proposals by elected Republicans.

So, what really is your point?

R93 acts like one of the Psy Ops pigs who play games trying to get in your head and discourage you and make you feel hopeless. Fuck that. Rubin has been doing some good work in her columns since Trump entered the WH, and particularly in the past year. She is taking her peers to task and I applaud her for it. The Democratic Party and the elected officials who are Dems are always proposing to help people and the Republicans d on't even support the COnstitution.

DIE ALREADY

How is Dump not riddled with cancer from decades of fast food, lack of exercise, and drug abuse?

Like we didn’t know this was coming. I’m pointing the finger at Obama …. FFS, he should be out speaking . People listen to him. Yeah. He’s not perfect. But I’m sick of his namby pamby delicate genius persona.

He can only speak at a B I G event??? WTF! He also dropped his balls when it came to supporting Hilary ,

He’s too busy counting his Netflix contracts and redecorating his numerous homes

R98

It’s not Obama you need it’s Taylor Swift. She may be the last great hope.

Otherwise young people, those that make fun of us oldies, are so fucking screwed,

Jennifer Rubin is awesome.

My favorite Dream Warrior with her badass switchblades and wild hairdo!

Shame Freddy killed her but that effect with the needle fingers and her puckering track marks was wild.

Politics Today in the USA

“The War On Vermin”

Trump was talking about us those on DL and other similar.vermin related forums. Like rats to be poisoned and killed,

The white tail deer wish us good luck and respond that at least the hunting season for them only lasts a few weeks each year.

Those from the progressive left respond that MAGA is full of haters and because of that hate they should all die a horrible death.

Jesus H. You girls are insane.

I agree with R98 and R99.

Trump sounds more crazy than ever, he needs to go away.

R104

Exactly what will you be doing to make your wish come true? It’s a serious question. Other than voting and posting what will you do to defeat the right.

He'd better be prepared to get rid of most every high ranking military leader in the country because there is no way in hell he'll be allowed to turn the US into a dictatorship with the people in charge now. They'd take his fat ass out post haste. If it even looks like he might win reelection I'm confident we may all live to see a military coup during out lifetimes. This maniac must be stopped at all costs, in any way possible. Him, his 2 oldest sons, and much of the republican party in Congress need to be arrested and tried for sedition.

You are so naive, R106.

My nephew is a graduate of West Point. His views are left of center, and as a result his career has stagnated.

According to him, 90% of the US military, including rank and file and the brass, would gladly go along with a Trump dictatorship.

'Detention centers'... sound vaguely familiar in an historical context? He's announced he will put all migrants in them. It will upset some but will be a 'matter for the courts'. Next, the homeless and derelicts will be placed in detention centers for 'rehab'. Some will be upset but many will be 'ok' with it. Knowing he can get away with up- up next-round up the Muslims and deport them or send them to a detention center..(my MAGA relatives will be especially happy with that one). Then let's have the 'leftist troublemakers' and lgbtq crowd to be sent to detention centers .....ho-hum- just another matter for the courts. Guys, we have been down this road before. It does not end well.

Trump does not need to be a dictator. That is crazy talk and it’s not going to happen..

All he needs is for the GOP to find ways of restricting voting. There would still be free elections just a smaller more select group of voters. All they need are control of Congress and the SCourt

Right there is how the gop stays in power for decades.

I have to say that I am not impressed with the Obamas post PResidency, so far. I don't begrudge them their interest in producing films and documentaries to have something to say. But it seems like they have moved away from the political realm entirely. And them all of a sudden he makes a statement or gives a lecture like some visiting professor. A flash and then a disappearance. If they're interested in their legacy, they need to be more active. I'm sort of tired of Michelle's touchy feely self help inspirational books. Hillary is living in the Now. She is present. I expected at least as much from the Obamas. They a re pissing away their political influence. You can't be absent from the scene, and the only photos of you are traveling to glamorous locales or rubbing shoulders with Hollywood elites, and then pop up during an election season for a couple of speeches, then disappear again.. I actively supported Obama. I remember the masses of people in Iowa and Colorado, and every felt hopeful and inspired because of how effective he was. We need that today.

If they care, they aren't showing it, R110. I'm disappointed in them, too.

I also agree with you about Hillary. She is still fighting. Good for her!

"Trump does not need to be a dictator. That is crazy talk and it’s not going to happen."

You obviously have not been paying attention.

Trump is a megalo-maniac, he's an unbridled narcissist, he does not share the limelight well, he wants to be the star, he wants to be almighty and all powerful.

Trump does NOT want the GOP to be in power. Trump wants TRUMP to be in power.

R112

Trump wins the election he is in power. At his ange probably for life. And he will have immunity for the rest of his life even if he lives Al, 4 years, That right there is a win win for him and the gop. And it’s realistic and it could happen.

It will be the Mike Johnson that will be plotting the future. Trump will be 100% invested in hunting down his enemies and bringing criminal charges and playing golf.

His legacy will be the long long run of the GOP after he is gone.

The Father of the New Modern America.

Of course he does.

Dump has made it perfectly clear on numerous occasions that he doesn't believe in or care about democracy.

R114

Just as we don’t really care about democracy either if the people we vote for don’t win.. We care about democracy when we think it means a GOP loss.

In fact we often hope that everyone who votes differently from us dies. And who they vote for also dies. Democracy in action?

In 2023 it does.

^ WTF are you talking about?

R116

For starters the many many many DL posters that have called for the deaths of Trump, Johnson, and all their supporters.

The funniest one was from a youngster that said——they are all so full of hate they all need to die.

Back way back in time we just wanted to beat them at voting time, you know democracy and voting , now they want them dead.

I base all my life opinions on what I read at DL.

Well I didn't say anything about death or wanting people to die.

I only observed that Dump, as far back as 2016, has made it clear that he only believes in Dump, and only believes in democracy when Dump wins. So it should come as no surprise that he intends to dismantle it should he regain the presidency.

Some people deserve to die when they unleash their potential to destroy humanity.

Im cuban and this guy sounds more and more like a communist, the republican party is another extension of the PCC party in china. Trump is using now the word vermin to refer to those who oppose him just like Fidel Castro called dissidents gusanos (worms). I can see an increase in Americans applying to double citizenship by ancestry in the future if this guy gets to be president again as that is what usually happens when people are no longer feeling well in the country they were born.

R119, I agree. Mostly, it's a figure of speech, like my mother when she used to say, "Get in here before I kill you!" but sometimes people are so evil and do so much harm you really wish they did not exist.

Personally, I curse anyone who is in a position to do great good, and instead CHOOSES to do great harm. Sometimes we need to acknowledge the fact that there are evil monsters walking among us and their goal in life is to inflict pain and punishment on the helpless. It is Bullying in the worst possible way.

OK, instead of saying I want them to die, I will say, if his ass was on fire I wouldn't piss on him to put it out.

R107, you are right. Right wing Christian groups have targeted American service academies just like they’ve targeted police departments and libraries. They’re getting their people on and pushing their religious and political positions on other students. It’s an organized agenda.

Anybody remember how Hillary was ridiculed because she talked about some "vast Right Wing conspiracy" that was out to get her and Bill back in the 90's?

[quote]I will say, if his ass was on fire I wouldn't piss on him to put it out.

In that situation, I would come running with a bag of marshmallows.

R123

Unless you are referring to the USAFA and that was decades ago I have seen nothing like what you describe. No pushing religion no pushing a certain politics. No organized agenda except for the mandatory classes.

And I can speak to decades ago and last week as far as several of those SAs.

The USAFA did years back have a small clique of born agains pushing religion.

The reason Trump didn't go full autocrat during his first term was because of our well established institutions, norms and laws. Also many individual surrounding him kept telling him he was wrong or it was illegal when he would attempt to do certain things. The guardrails would be off if there is a second term.

ITA R127

R127

You nailed it

Or as one of our brighter posters called it recently , Trump Unleashed aka The Trump Revenge Tour

There will be nothing to hold him back

R124 It was a right wing conspiracy. The Republicans wanted to significantly and adversely impact Clinton's presidency. Multiple ongoing investigations over 5 years over bullshit claims of illegalities which resulted in zero evidence produced by Ken Starr. The only finding was that Clinton lied about an affair with an intern.

I can't believe they're making those poor children testify on the day their beloved mother, I mean, aunt dies.

It's important to remember that even during the 2016 election Trump said that he was not going to concede the election if he lost because he believed there was evidence of election fraud. But that is only if he lost of course. He wanted to use it as an ongoing grievance argument to stir up his MAGA base and grift.

R131 I wonder what section of the golf course she will get buried.

R130 exactly. That's what I meant.Hillary was right.

R133 beat me to the joke! She'll be buried on whichever golf course needs a tax break for doubling as a cemetery.

Of course it is, R136. And people keep tweeting like the average Joe (or Jane) can do anything about it. "Call Tuberville's office!", they tweet. "Flood his phone lines!", they re-tweet.

Like this Putin patsy gives a damn about your calls, your messages?

No. Call the other senators. Call every other senator and demand they get up off their asses and update the rules of the Senate to go over Traitor Tumorville! That's *their* job, for which we elected them! Their job! We did our job, which was to donate, volunteer, and vote them into office.

Tell them to do their fucking jobs and stop tweeting at *us* because we do not have the authority to do jack to that little turd.

Did I miss the headlines? Have I misunderstood the story? He's set the stage for the end of the Constitution? As of today, he's pre- approved all the details for his fascist takeover , everything except the gas chambers, so far, and stated his agenda, of installing martial law on day one. All those who disagree will be sent to prision camps.

His supporters are armed with AR15's and an edict from GOD they've been issued pardons in advance. What could go wrong?

Agree, R137! I don't get why Schumer and McConnell, who has his foot on t he proverbial banana peel, cannot get together. I keep reading that the Republican Senators are pissed off at Tuberville. We have 51 Senators. Are there not any Republicans willing to translate their anger towards Tuberville to votes?

"Are there not any Republicans willing to translate their anger towards Tuberville to votes?"

They got the willing, they just don't have the guts to do what's right, like so many candy assed Republicans.

Shit. Change the fucking rules. Maybe the Republicans are "scared" to vote with the Dems on appointments, but a"technical" procedural vote on a rule change they could get away with. Once the rules are change the Dems can vote for the appointments.

R136 I was saying that from the very beginning. Tuberville is using the same obstruction tactics for military promotions that McConnell was using for Supreme Court Justice appointments under Obama. Run out the clock in the likelihood that Trump will be elected and he can assign his picks instead.

Republicans don’t believe in freedom, they want conformity. Just because you say that something cheap is expensive, doesn’t make it expensive.

....

There we go! Thank you, R44

nothing is ever Dump's fault

Old Ronna hasn't let The Donald grab her pussy enough, that's the real reason she's on the hot seat.

The woman obviously doesn't know her place in Republican circles. Shame on her.

Dump flipped her the bird with his non-appearance at the debates. She took it.

If she had balls she'd disqualify Dump, but we know that is not gonna happen.

Cozy up to Dump, get tossed under the shitmobile.

I'm not at all defending the other Senators here, but the Senate has really arcane, pointless rules that gum up the works. When they did get things done, it was because of handshake deals and the clubbiness of being a Senator. All that went down the shitter when McTurtle refused Garland for SCOTUS. And now it's 1000x worse with MAGA dipshits like Tuberville in there.

Re: R144 companion:

"He is undermining our military. Who has Sen. Tuberville's loyalty? It most certainly is not our nation or our troops."

January 2025

Tuberville is an inbred, mouth breathing prick.

Stupid shitstain should be cunt punted to Russia.

HOLD ME, DAVID.

Send all Republicans to Russia since they love it so much. Let them wake up in the AM, get shitfaced on cheap vodka by 11AM, then go crash your car by noon and wander down to the local Vlad recruitment station.

SHITHOLE!

[quote]He's putting this info out in a lame attempt to try and intimidate the AGs prosecuting him. He's nothing more than a mob boss, threatening to burn down the shop if you don't do what he wants.

Well yeah, but if you don't do what the mob boss wants, what's his next move? Oranges rolling in the streets.

Rona should be home peeling potatoes, not doing government work.

R117 - except that Dump really does need to die for the whole MAGA movement to implode. At this point, it’s the only way. You have Republicans saying they’d let him be the candidate even if convicted - how low do you have to sink as an organization to support that?

R157

How funny that you think Trump is the problem. If you live long enough you will wish for the days of trump. Worse much worse much smarter much more full of hate much more on a mission from god are on their way. And they are driven to win.

The worse than trump will be your future. And it’s never in your life time going back to normal. Enjoy.

[quote] Republicans don’t believe in freedom, they want conformity.

When they say "freedom," to them it ALWAYS means freedom to deprive other people of freedom. Gay rights are an infringement on their freedom to live in a country where gays aren't tolerated. Civil rights infringe on their right to discriminate. Religious freedom only means the right to oppress other religions as well as atheism. They want the right to pollute and exploit natural resources, to hell with people's right to clean water and air.

Republican ideology is nothing but double standards and greed.

R158, it's doubtful whether Mike Johnson or the other theocrats could ever command the kind of following that Trump (long-time con artist with endless charisma for the gullible) does.

R159

Here is what is great about American politics today and a sign of what the future holds——they are convinced you and those like you are much worse, that you are vermin. Anti Americans who all believe total bullshit about changing genders and etc etc etc etc.

They think of you as scum that needs to die.

I miss the 1960s

Rachel Maddow had a fierce and fantastic commentary last night about how none of our institutions are holding him accountable.

R160

It’s fascists , Its hardly just a trump created slogan MAGA. And it’s not just the US it’s a movement sweeping a lot of the world. It’s a world view and it’s not remotely new. It’s just getting larger and more public once again.

They often gain power by being voted in by the majority.

Trump got on the horse and rode it to victory. The Trump did not create any damn horse. The horse will long outlive Donald.

You are going to need millions to die not just one.

Happy Democracy Day :-)

R158: the Democrats also have young, determined representatives who are willing to fight. For America and Democracy. Representatives who don't have to make sick pacts to keep their spouses from divorcing them or having spyware installed on their phones where they share bonertime with their underage sons.

R164

November2024 will tell us how much the young care and we will know how much those who normally lean dem care.

It’s all about results in this election and those that follow. All else is useless noise and bullshit.

^ Have you forgotten last Tuesday's elections? Blue wave, hon. If the trend continues, 2024 will be a blowout for Democrats. A lot of Gen Zers voted on Tuesday.

Terrifying. There will be war in the streets and people will die. I have a few police officers in my family, Trump lovers who are such assholes. After the shooting in Maine, I was at a restaurant with 2 of them and they were offended the flag was at half mast, and went into a diatribe about Biden trying to make the issue 'the guns' rather than the 'real' issue that they could not define. These people obviously know I'm gay and liberal, and the past assurances 'I understand your concerns, but YOU should be ok' are out the window now. The White supremacy thing just rolls through them. I live in Southwest Ohio, and they're all moving - WHITE FLIGHT!! - to Indiana where you don't have to have your kids go to school with blacks and Hispanics. It's getting WORSE.

It’s kind of nifty seeing the fall of American democracy in real time. It’s sad to see so many Americans hellbent on making it happen.

Who knew there were so many Preppers on DL?

R166

Nope I did see the news. Abortion carries the day when it’s on the ballot I hope that is a positive sign about the future.

That in no way assures me that there will be a massive blue wave turn out that will lead Dems to victory across the board a year from now..

I have seen far too many can’t miss turn to crash and burn in far less than a years time. Being worried is the smart move.

R170, I know you're very CONCERNED, but if we all get out here and work, make phone calls,donate money, and engage with our local Democratic Party organizations we will feel better, R170. Truly. And since 2018, the young voters, the women, and POC have been the biggest factor in our wins, turning out in record numbers. That isn't my concern. I have confidence. IMO the problems are first, voter suppression tactics, and corruption in the counting. And secondly, the obvious disregard for our laws that their Dear Leader has encouraged, so that they may very well reject the results and refuse to leave. I am reminded of Al Franken's dilemma in Minnesota. Remember? He won his Senate seat, but he was denied it for months and months. That was a harbinger of things to come.

[quote] I live in Southwest Ohio, and they're all moving - WHITE FLIGHT!! - to Indiana where you don't have to have your kids go to school with blacks and Hispanics. It's getting WORSE

Actually it sounds like it's getting better for Southwest Ohio.

These people are motivated by fear. They are irrational and dangerous. Nothing will ever make them feel safe. Nothing. They will always find something to be terrified about. They will turn on one another too.

R171

The greatest domestic president of my life time was LBJ. He was so popular. He had the will, the vision, the talent to pull it all off. He was amazing. He was another FDR in the making. On the side of the angels on every issue.

Then the war came along

[quote]Have you forgotten last Tuesday's elections? Blue wave, hon. If the trend continues, 2024 will be a blowout for Democrats. A lot of Gen Zers voted on Tuesday.

Young voters overwhelmingly supported last week's Ohio ballot measures on legal abortions and marijuana, but their turnout was "on par" with previous elections, per ABC. Neither issue drove an influx of young adults to the polls.

Interest Rates are bad, that justifies a lot of people voting for Trump. Why, oh why can't Republicans find a kinder, gentler candidate? Romney and Manchin's deal sounds good to me. Biden saved America, he deserves to retire, and his presidency will go down as historic and great. Perception about his age is just sticking out, past all the good. And no one wants Kamala.

R176

R&M would be a total game changer. As in Holy Shit. I assume there is nothing but hopeful thinking on the part of this being possible?

It's baffling that people think that Trump is the solution to anything

Sure, R176. Why the fuck not., right? And if that doesn't work just throw some shit on the wall and see how much sticks. Right now, there are no good Republicans. None. We cannot afford to allow the psy ops people to convince us of any viable alternative to what we have. Stop thinking of people and start thinking of policies. Which PARTY offers us the best chance of getting to where we need to be? I am voting Democratic. I urge people to turn off the TV News whores and stop listening to the bullshit. The only hope of preserving our Democracy is to vote Blue. Period. Anything else will destroy this country and that is no exaggeration.

R175, that’s interesting about the turnout in Ohio. I didn’t know the Democrats had a much higher turnout than the Republicans. It makes sense for an off-year election that the pro-abortion side would be a lot more energized than the anti-abortion side. The latter has a lot of people who are only mildly against abortion and I can imagine their view on abortion, and marijuana, wouldn’t be strong enough to get them out of the house and to the polls.

[quote] It's baffling that people think that Trump is the solution to anything

Like all the recent elections, it will be decided by people voting for whomever they have concluded is the lesser of two evils.

“It’s baffling….”

Trump is riding high on the backs of people who absolutely hate lefties. It’s not race that drives them or even class, or religion, ( you can be a black queer rich guy it’s ok as long as you hate lefties) it’s those fucking anti Americans simpering liberals. Liberals are hated with a passion just as much as you hate them.

And they think they are fighting the good fight just as you do.

R182 your high or a liar or both.

Americans are pro-choice. Ohioans legalized marijuana last week. Majority of Americans support marriage equality. Majority of Americans support food stamps. Majority of Americans support universal childcare/pre-school. Great majority of Americans support social security.

It's all about racism, fascism, and oligarch-funded think tanks manipulating peoples tribal mentalities. The "elite" are manipulating white working and middle classes' hate of the elite. It's masterful. It is not about hating lefties. The "left/liberal" candidate has won the popular vote in seven of the last eight presidential elections.

^^you're

R183

So you claim I must be high and then you go and describe exactly what I described. What drives them is hate. You claim to be smart enough to know how all that hate came about so be it. We agree it’s hate.

You just said what I said in a slightly different way.

The news media has created and continues to foster the impression that Trump has a significant following so people feel comfortable voting for him and his Republican vermin. They give the impression t here is a consensus and this actually creates a consensus. They t hey sit back and say "Wow, why are these people supporting him?" It's a rhetorical question since they a re congratulating themselves on the power of the media to set the political agenda. We have watched them normalize Trump for years. And when he jumped into the political arena did they subject him to anything resembling vetting? No. They chased down rumors generated by Rudy and his retired FBI buddies that there was going to be an indictment against Hillary any minute for endangering national security for using her private server for e-maisl. (As a aside, I found it interesting that she used the e-mail server set up for Bill Clinton's post PResidency, and at the same time the State Department was reeling from getting hacked. Hillary's account was not hacked. LOL! )

If you need any evidence that the GOP is not willing to accept the will of the people you can just look at Ohio. In the summer they tried a pre-emptive measure to make it almost impossible to pass a constitutional amendment because they knew they were fucked on issue one. That failed. Then they flat-out lied about issue one spreading false information (particularly about late-term abortions which are no longer practiced). Then that failed as well as voter passing legal recreation thc. So rather than accept the will of the people they have vowed to but legal limitations on both since they have a lock on the state house and governor's office. Because of gerrymandering (Ohio remapped districts which the Supreme Court negated and they have refused to follow it), no republican is too worried about losing their seat.

It's absurd that all the Trump sycophants and acolytes wanted to imprison Hillary Clinton for having government emails on an unsecured server, which despite thorough investigations found no act was considered criminal or significant to warrant an indictment. And yet despite all that very serious actions by Trump, his supporters have no concerns whatsoever.

January 6th Insurrection Case

The Georgia Election Interference Case

The Classified Documents Case

The Hush Money Case

The New York State Civil Fraud Case.

Had any of these charges been by any other politician or presidential candidate, it would be considered disqualifying. Remember when Harold Dean made a yelping holler at the end of one of his campaign speeches, and that was considered unpresidential, and it derailed his candidacy? Trump is the head of a cult. Yes, many of the so-called deplorables and their myopic and hateful views of the world existed before, but Trump lowered the bar so significantly, he made it acceptable to not only be a horrible person, but to support a candidate that was one too. We all know the next move for Trump if reelected is a neo-dictatorship and much retribution.

[quote]Like all the recent elections, it will be decided by people voting for whomever they have concluded is the lesser of two evils.

Oh, dear.

I definitely don't want Biden again but I'll sure as hell vote for him if the Rs really think Trump is their answer. Forget the third party candidates; they're just there as a distraction. Biden is too old, I really don't know nor care about Harris, but I sure as shit won't vote for Trump.

R190

3rd party just a distraction ?

Romney and Manchin if there was any truth to that would be a hell of a lot more than a distraction, That would totally upend everything,

I never thought manchin was leaving the senate to run for president. He would have no chance. As VP to Mitt he has a chance to win.

I'd vote for R&M.

I'd vote for a potted plant over Dump, but R&M would actually get me enthusiastic.

R192

They would gut the middle class suburban voters and all the gop anti trumpers and lots of Dems as long as they could sell a reasonable stance on abortion.

I am guess this is not real?

I haven't seen a credible link, R193

Not sure what to make of this. Seems like a punt, or a half-punt.

[quote] The news media has created and continues to foster the impression that Trump has a significant following so people feel comfortable voting for him and his Republican vermin.

I think you are a combination of being in the bubble and being in extreme denial. Outside the bubble, it’s very evident the number of people who support him is what the polls show it is.

What's all this talk about Romney & Manchin? It sounds like the dream team of the pundits who thought Jon Huntsman would roll over all opposition in 2012. Both of them are 76, so offer no alternative to the "he's too old" arguments about Biden or Trump. Both are conservatives well to the right on the issues that are motivating voters since Dobbs (and even before), as well as on the economy: both are plutocratic assholes with predatory careers who want to cut taxes for the rich and let everyone bear the burden. They only have charisma for people who fetishize the "center," wherever the "center" happens to be (farther and farther to the right for pundits, though not in the real world).

^ thanks, Alexandra

The German philosopher Theodor Adorno studied how Hitler and the Nazis came to power. One of his central conclusions was that what Hitler said was so impossibly outrageous, chaotic, hateful... that folks just would believe it was for real. "He doesn't really mean it." And when Hitler kept saying even more horrible things, and hateful threats, people just couldn't handle the truth of it, and so ignored it. That is, the degree of people's disbelief and denial was proportionate to how horrible what Hitler proposed was.

We are there. Trump has explicitly detailed how he will dismantle the Republic and end our democracy. But the closer he gets to absolute fascism the more people look away. "It surely can't happen here. He must certainly just be kidding. He doesn't really mean it."

What r199 said. I have always said America would take a fascist turn eventually, I just never expected it to happen in my lifetime

If the Media had decided Trump was a crank and a Pariah, and mocked and ridiculed him, turned him into a national joke instead of pretending he was serious and giving weight and credibility to his candidacy, people would have treated him that way. Instead they took him seriously and normalized him.

R200

It does have similarities to Germany in the 1930s. And done by voting not by military coup.

R201

The media told us trump was the sex addict pussy grabbing criminal fool for years. The voters just did not care. You can’t blame trump on the media.

Seriously? Romney Maunchin? Are you fucking kidding me? A republican, Mormon who is just as much against gays as any other GOP. And that fucking traitor in Democrat clothing? Over Biden who is doing a fucking great job?

R202 is right... first there is no single "the Media" (a plural by definition) - and the simple truth that the most watched cable news service, Fox, essentially shaped truth to Trump's needs and purposes - along with the exponentially expanding delivery of "customized" news through digital media - each consumer's "bubble" of information aligned to what they already think/believe.

Having said that: through 2015-16, and the first years of the Trump presidency, the media in all its forms did report things he said, proposed, attacked, and lied about, and every time something happened that demonstrated how off-norm, dangerous, and scandalous he was ("oh now he's done it and will lose all support!!") it only made him more popular.

It continues: each time he's been indicted for felonies his popularity in his base has only increased.

Make no mistake about it, Trump understands how fascism works:

[quote]I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters.

He wasn't kidding.

R202 you underestimate the power to influence the media has. The controversy over Hillary's emails was fueled by the media and the whisper campaign about her imminent indictment propelled them. They hounded her relentlessly. The media determines what is important to cover, how to cover it, and how much airtime to give it. They hype things. And when you consider how social media and these crackpots from Rush Limbaugh to Alex Jones fired people up over the years, you cannot deny that people are greatly influenced by what they see and hear from mass media. Ask Rupert Murdoch how much the news media influences people.

His base may love him more but the base itself is shrinking.

Fewer, louder zealots don't make for a larger number of voters. They just make for more noise and a more purulent odor.

R205, I think this is a misunderstanding. Trump is proof of the power of media: Fox, social media, Limbaugh, Rogan, Q Anon etc... there would be no Trump without the saturated life of "media" we live in.

I remember the breathless media reporting in 2015 and 2016, awaiting Trump's rally speeches. They seldom would show Hillary or Bernie giving speeches. He got a LOT of free media exposure.

It's what I am saying - media made Trump.

OK no tv no radio no social media we would not have trump. We would not have a lot today. We would have people aimlessly walking around asking each other if they have any idea what is going on. And none would.

FDR was a product of media ( radio am radio) Obama was a product of the media. Unless you are having private chats with the candidates all you know about them you got thru the media some sort of media.

The media which generally reports what is happening they normally don’t post things that have not happened. Trump happened he was a story to be reported despite the thought police hear who only want certain stories in the media.

.

Trump is the product of a very angry country.

I spent last weekend with my MAGA family and tried to get a feel for what they are feeling/thinking. FEAR seems to be the primary motivation. Fear of everything- brown/black folks, the UN, gas prices, crime in 'hellhole' coastal elite cities, transgender everything, blah,blah,blah. And to keep it truly interesting, my Babtist family are big on 'end times'. They live in a 100% emotion based universe- Facts are meaningless to them. I hope DNC has a team of psychologist on the payroll to strategize as I don't know how we win in this type battle.

R211 One of my brothers voted for Trump twice. He's college-educated, smart, kind... he's just a lifelong evangelical Republican. I checked in with him last month.... "I held my nose and voted for him in 2020... now I am kind of interested in RFK"

I think the "Trump Base" isn't one single thing. I think it can and might fragment a lot in 2024. The question is, can the Democratic coalition stay together and get out the vote in 2024.

Funny how afraid they are of the crime in the large, coastal cities that they never visit and only see on the news. Why should they care? They don't even care if their local pastor is raping the kids at their churches. Obviously. So, why vote for fascists because of what they think is happening in Chicago, a place they will never set foot in?

Maybe they ought to be paying less attention to the crime in the large, coastal cities and more to the molesters in their churches and families. They might actually raise a generation not abused by "trusted" individuals.

[quote] I spent last weekend with my MAGA family and tried to get a feel for what they are feeling/thinking. FEAR seems to be the primary motivation.

And you don’t think Democrats are motivated by fear, here on a thread that is about fear of a Trump dictatorship? Both sides are always motivated by fear.

R213 Huh? They don't "care" about the crime at all. It's simply an attack on the "other tribe" with the added benefit of strong racist undertones.

They don't care about life in cities at all.

R214 Again with the discredited false equivalencies.

Fear of Fascism.

Fear of immigrants, black people, gay folk.

They are not the same.

[quote] They don't care about life in cities at all.

People being deliberately pushed onto subway tracks are the kind of horror stories that transcend politics. Of course it’s going draw attention and be discussed everywhere.

If they honestly think tha by voting in dictatorial strongmen they're going to solve some kind of rampant "people being deliberately pushed onto subway tracks" problem there's no hope for these people. It's certainly less realistic than liberals worried about the "freezing to death because of half-assed power grid" problem or the "kids being taught that dinosaurs and humans lived together" problem or the "can't obtain birth control" problem.

R218 Exactly. The significant political theorizing in 2024: People thrown from subway tracks means we elect a fascist to end the American democratic experiment.

R211

You think its the MAGA crowd that lives a fear based life? Do you read much at DL? There is so much constant and ongoing fear of the future threads and comments here.

All the many comments about how will be hunted we will be killed, they will take our right away, they will take our right to marry away, , fear about the economic future, fear about the elections, fear about growing old, fear about what the trans will do to gay men, it goes on and on and on and on,

Fear is not always a bad thing

R219, the context was “They don't care about life in cities at all.” People, no matter they live, are interested in the kind of crime stories that make the national news. Your brain is going off in some other direction other than what was stated.

Hon, my mind is reflecting your "self-assurance" as a kind of proof that our national calculous is warped, damaged. Your "direction" was explaining MAGA's embrace of fascism as some response to concern about people being shoved off subway tracks.

You can draw the throughline I guess.... I can't.

Look Lib. Before you commies shove people onto the subway tracks, me and my Christian, patriot buddies will be shooting them with our AR-15s so their bodies fall on the ground before they even get that close.

See the difference, snowflake? Oh, by the way, no homo!

R210, it is not the what it is the how. How the media covered Trump. They put lipstick on a pig.

R224

And every time I saw him on TV I thought this bozo. this clown who is bragging about grabbing pussies and is being charged by woman with rape

He has absolutely no chance to beat Clinton none. Everything I saw in the media made me comfortable. You have any idea how funny a pig looks with lipstick on? The media I watched showed me exactly what trump was.

Blame trump not on the media but in the assholes that did not vote for Clinton and wasted their vote or did not bother to vote at all. Fuck them. They are 100% the reason we have trump.

Who did you vote for?.

R225 I voted for and worked on the Clinton campaign. I am also aware of the fact that Hillary was plagued by 600 straight days of relentless, negative press about her e mails, abetted by rumors coming from Rudy Giuliani and his retired FBI cronies that she would be indicted "any minute" etc. The Media dined out on that. Their was a significant % of voters who the GOP went after with the whole "indictment" rumor, because they felt those voters could flip for Trump. Then James Comey played his part. Context is everything. Ye you and I saw the same thing. We saw a vicious, corrupt clown, in Trump. Someone who was not only incompetent, but dangerous. But millions of people did not. And in both 2016 and 2020, even as he lost the popular vote, he is still around impacting our politics. it is undeniable that the Media influences how people are presented.

R226

I understand your point but unless you outlaw right wing media including Fox this is exactly what the rest of your political life is going to look like. It works really well. And because it’s news it’s going to be reported.

If you want to win you do what it takes to win. I give the GOP credit for that.

Trump is one of the biggest threats to US security and safety. I wouldn’t normally say something like this, but why hasn’t this treasonous degenerate been taken out yet?

R227, yes, but they have won by lying, misleading, and spreading fear and hatred, in order to manipulate voter behavior, and and by tactics of voter intimidating and suppressing the vote. They offer nothing. They simply are against everything. They aren't called "the party of No! " by accident. The Media allows this with their "both sides" bullshit. The airtime given to the lies and negative campaigning, is greater than the "fact checking" at the end of the report.

Every 5 minutes the ancient Muppet-faced hag Andrea Mitchell is saying that Biden is old. When a certain thing is repeated over and over again, people tend to believe it. Media types like Mitchell constantly saying that Biden is too old to be President does eventually sink in to some voters. And the accomplishments of the Biden Administration are seldom discussed.

The media does shape the conversation.

R229

Lying, misleading, and spreading fear is as old as the country. It’s been with us since day one it’s never going away. Social media makes it xxxxx times worse. Pols have killed each other in duels and we fought a long long bloody civil war. All over politics.

And these issues we now see long predate trump and will be with you decades after trump is gone.

Sadly It is what it is.

Thanks R230, saying much more succinctly, the point I have been making repeatedly. Yes lies and misleading divisive crap have been part of campaigns ever since there were campaign. But now we have them amplified through social media. Now they happen in real time. For weeks even months, for example, the media has been framing everything with the "problem of inflation." Everything was framed in that context. Good economic news was punctuated by worries about inflation. Inflation was the message. "What's Biden doing about it?" "Biden didn't mention Inflation in his speech about giraffes." " Biden has to "do something about inflation." Then the polling:"Voters are worried about ...Inflation." The Media does influence people. If it didn't no one would waste money on advertising.

I agree with what both of you are saying. I’d also like to add that people ARE concerned about high gas prices, high food prices and high housing costs.

Most people vote on who they think will make them hurt less at the pump and the grocery.

I like Biden. I think he’s done quite a bit and we won’t feel the affects of it for at least another year or five.

What would really help him shut these pearl clutchers up is if interest rates came down making houses more affordable, grocery and gas prices came came down or everyone got a 10% raise.

Since we know ain’t nobody getting a raise, prices need to come down in order for people to feel more secure. As long as people feel insecure, the pearl clutchers will stoke fear and insecurity because it SELLS.

The Dems best hope is not Biden or Harris it’s Trump. The sight and sound of trump may hand victory to the Dems and Biden despite them not being all that popular or wanted in power.

Re: R233:

"New reports from the Wall Street Journal indicate a more than 20% decrease in the price of turkeys this year ahead of Thanksgiving. President Biden continues to deliver the lower costs American families need and deserve this Holiday season."

R234 As I've said in multiple threads... under a lot of the concern is that poll a week ago: Trump ahead of Biden in battle ground states by 5 points. Generic Democrat (the party, but candidate not named) ahead of Trump by 8 points. That's a swing of THIRTEEN points.

Biden has done a great job. I support him 100%. But America thinks he's too old. 82 isn't too old to be president, but Joe is a vert creaky 82.

Still... once the choice is clear between the two, I don't think Trump can win.

Re: R233:

"...By the way, the U.S. economy is outpacing China’s for the first time in 40+ years."

R237 It's the economy stupid.

Oh, wait, it's the joint replacements!

Re: R233:

"Prices that have dropped over the past 12 months:

FOOD • Eggs: -22.2% • Lettuce: -4.5% • Apples: -3.9% • Butter: -3.7% • Fresh fish and seafood: -3.6%

SERVICES • Health insurance: -34% • Airfare: -13.2% • Car rental: -9.6% • Public transport: -8.9% • Medical care: -2%"

Joe has a big cock, too

There is no reliable common sense media outlet anymore, either in print or broadcast. Corporate greed and corrupted editors and managers are now way more concerned about internal politics and profits rather than sensible and fair news reporting. Just a few days ago the New York Times for whitewashing Trump's fascist vermin comments in their article headline.

"Trump Takes Veterans Day Speech in a Very Different Direction."

After public outrage at the tile, they changed the headline to be only somewhat less euphemistic.

"In Veterans Day Speech, Trump Promises to 'Root Out' the Left."

Democracy doesn't stand a change against fascistic politicians like Trump if the Fourth Column is soft-soaping or enabling them.

[quote]"Prices that have dropped over the past 12 months: • Health insurance: -34%

My insurer obviously didn't get that memo.

If prices have dropped, I don’t know where.

A head of lettuce is still pushing $3 in Ohio and even hamburger is completely unaffordable.

And with housing so high, there’s still not enough money for groceries.

I don’t care about “statistics”. Prices are still too damned high for most of us. THAT is what people are worried about. That’s why they’re concerned.

There really isn’t anything Biden can do about, tho, and that’s what really stinks. All of the blame and none of the credit.

R224, here. I agree, inflation is definitely a concern. There are causes for this. One is price gouging all the way up the supply chain. The high cost of housing and gasoline also drives inflation in many areas of the country. There are other factors but these affect most of us. When I was in California a few weeks ago people were paying close to $7 a gallon. In other places in the Southeast it is under $4. But gasoline drives inflation because everything we buy depends on transportation. What is also true is that people are always feeling insecure about the economy. No matter how great things are, people scare very easily about the economy and job insecurity. It's an easy button to push. "Runaway Government spending " is another. Voters don't want to hear things are great. Even in the best of times we are always dissatisfied about our personal situation.

The GOP has successfully convinced a lot of people they have a monopoly on patriotism, protecting America, that they care about our armed forces, and that they know what to do about the economy. They are never specific when they overpromise. They know what they are against. But what they are for is an echo chamber of our own concerns. I do not have an uncritical eye when it comes to Biden. Not at all. But he doesn't operate in a vacuum. He can't wave a wand and make everything all better. He has to get the cooperation of Congress. We know this. But it is easy to exploit unrealistic expectations and also exploit people's dissatisfaction, and their impatience. Professionals who have studied voter behavior and the language of messaging (Like Frank Luntz) know this.

My background is in government and politics, working as a member of a Congressional staff for two years, and in local government for almost two decades. During that time, I've worked on political campaigns including Presidential at a state level, governors' races, and local as well as legislative. I've designed survey instruments for polling, been involved in conducting polls, and I have sat behind the two way mirror observing focus groups. A lot of what I say here comes from my personal experience of the media and messaging. Most of us who post on threads like this have a more sophisticated idea of politics than the average person and are better informed.

We live in an imperfect world, and Biden has got some things wrong, and may be tone deaf to others. But he's got a lot of things right and he is working hard. So is Vice President Harris. We need to walk away from the horse race hype. It isn't just Fox news. It is the entire constellation of profit driven network news coverage that lacks context and is often inaccurate and slanted. They're driven by ratings and revenue. They need to alarm people to keep their viewers. "Breaking News!!! "

My suggestion is to stop watching the political news shows. Your anxiety level will drop appreciably. Mine has. Get involved. Donate, make calls, work with local organizations if you can. We know what the Republicans are offering us. We know who they are. I'm voting Democratic. Period. It doesn't matter whether it is Biden, Harris, Buttegieg, Klobuchar, or someone who hasn't yet emerged. I'm not going to get sidetracked by bullshit centered on personalities. There's a popular analogy making the rounds comparing it to riding a bus. The bus is going in the direction we need to go even if it isn't stopping directly in front of our house. So let's get on the damned bus, and not be ensnared by the brain fog. Right now at this stage in the campaign cycle, they're "probing." Trying to find out what sticks, trying to develop their messaging and themes, and to create anxiety. Anxiety can be a valuable tool.

[quote] We know what the Republicans are offering us. We know who they are. I'm voting Democratic. Period. It doesn't matter whether it is Biden, Harris, Buttegieg, Klobuchar, or someone who hasn't yet emerged.

And on the other side of our polarized society, the Republicans are saying the same thing about Democrats and that they will vote Republican and “It doesn’t matter whether it is Trump, DeSantis, Haley…”. That’s why the election is decided by the persuadable middle.

r225, check out this photo:

People who want to be deceptive about inflation are going use eggs as something they point to. Eggs were $2.07 in October according to BLS. They were $1.51 in 2020 and $2.86 in 2022. Everyone knows there was a huge spike in egg prices. With the price of eggs now significantly less than the spike, people can say, see the price has come down. What they don’t show is that the price of eggs, after the spike is over, is still 37% (!) greater than 2020.

CNN just now: Americans’ personal disposable income has dropped 3.4% since Biden’s first year in office. It’s hard to sell a great economy against that fact — even if it is better than peer countries.

No one gets that most of the price increases came from corporations deciding to leave the price gouging from COVID in place....corporations that, as a rule, support the GOP and deregulation.

My friends in Europe laugh at our complaints about inflation. What we are "going through" is nothing compared to what they're dealing with and they know a lot of it is from the war in Ukraine and energy issues .

R245 the "persuadable middle" has shrunk. Independents have nowhere to go. We live under a two party system. A third party only gives the advantage to one side or the other. In a Parliamentary Democracy they can afford to have more than two parties and proportionately the various parties pick up representation according to their strength. But here that is not the case.

R245 I'll say it again. False. Equivalencies.

A: A black mamba will bite you.

B: Oh yeah? Well a mosquito will bite you too!!

A: Oh, you're right, they're the same then.

[quote]If you want to win you do what it takes to win. I give the GOP credit for that.

But isn't the point of winning an election supposed to be that you want to GOVERN? They don't, except in the sense of holding power and creaming off the spoils for themselves and their friends, therefore fuck them.

[quote]If you want to win you do what it takes to win. I give the GOP credit for that.

They'd be winning a lot more if they'd drop Trump and the MAGAts, who have been losing them elections since 2017; but they just can't.

[quote]But isn't the point of winning an election supposed to be that you want to GOVERN?

Haha! Surely you jest!

Well, R255, Rachel Maddow was telling Colbert the other night that one of the big problems the Dems have is that they're all, "We just built another piece of infrastructure" or "We just signed a strategic agreement with a foreign power", and the public simply doesn't want to know. The GOP is all the time telling them a lot of word salads that mean "The country will not be in good hands unless it has a strong-man leader with all the power he needs to fix things", and she said that message is what's getting through. That the Dems are talking about government and the Repugs are only talking about power.

[quote] But isn't the point of winning an election supposed to be that you want to GOVERN? They don't, except in the sense of holding power and creaming off the spoils for themselves and their friends, therefore fuck them.

We’re seeing a lot of Republicans agreeing with that sentiment, especially with the dumping of McCarthy. Congresswoman Spartz, for example, said that the Republicans are a “circus with a complete absence of leadership, vision, and spine”. She’s frustrated that the House Republicans aren’t doing anything to cut the debt.

If we want to address the higher costs, maybe an increase in the minimum wage would help? Here in Georgia, the minimum wage is still $7.25 an hour which also happens to be the Federal minimum wage! States also assign taxes to gasoline. So look at your state's gasoline tax.

R256, I saw Rachel on Colbert. I think the other point she was trying to make, since they were talking about the GOP's slide towards fascism, and her book is about the last time that happened, was that she felt the Democrats were ignoring the threat, and continuing to act as if it's business as usual. I think she felt that there was no appreciation of the threat or a sense of urgency.

I would disagree with Rachel M, R256, since the last few election cycles (and special elections, referenda, etc.) suggest the Democratic message of governance IS getting through to most voters—but not the Republican base.

[quote] Rachel Maddow was telling Colbert the other night that one of the big problems the Dems have is that they're all, "We just built another piece of infrastructure" or "We just signed a strategic agreement with a foreign power", and the public simply doesn't want to know.

It’s because a new road or bridge somewhere, or some foreign policy issue, doesn’t fix any of the top things people care about.

Love Maddow but Joe Biden ran on saving and stabilizing Democracy. Joe Biden won because he ran on those issues, even though the press said America didn't care about Democracy. We do fucking care. We care a hell of a lot!

Maybe if MSNBC had Joe on more often and shitheads like Matt Gatez on less, that might be clearer to more people including the members of the press. Those people have cushy jobs *because* of Democracy, you'd think they would be champions of the guy fighting for it instead of the one trying to strangle and rape it (in that order).

[quote]Matt Gatez

Oh dear!

GOverning day to day, can be tedious. It is seldom interesting or fun. The Republicans inject drama, and exploit the feeling of impatience people may have about solving problems. They offer no solutions or unrealistic, simple solutions . They are often the cause of the slow functioning of government. They scream about immigrants!!! But the many times legislation was proposed or introduced they blocked it and voted against it. They loved immigration as an issue, have no intention of solving it. Abortion was a case of the dog catching the car. It was a great issue. Then the SCOTUS ruled. Now it is killed them. It is mobilizing opposition against the GOP. Sometimes people get very frustrated and the Republicans are very effective at exploiting that frustration.

[quote] The Republicans inject drama

In a "Real Housewives" mode. It's getting old.

Call me boring but I prefer No Drama Obama, or Uncle Joe, to Schoolyard Bully Autocrat Trump, or the Lunchroom Foodfight Gang in Congress.

It's not about what we prefer, though, it's what all the loonies who have got behind the Republicans prefer. I think Maddow is right, and that maybe the time has come for more than just Colbert to start telling the public urgently that what they are listening to is outright fascism. Maybe Biden and his Cabinet should be doing the same.

If you want to be properly scared, or skip Maddow's book, watch The Plot Against America, a very good but very depressing dramatisation of Philip Roth's book which imagines what would have happened had Lindbergh stood for and won the Presidency. The book is quite old, so the series was clearly prompted by the Trump ascendancy. It think it was HBO, so it should be streaming somewhere in the Fox universe. Ironically.

Where's the DL poster who used to come on here saying that no one would remember Dobbs by the 2022 elections, let alone in 2023 or 24? On the contrary, more and more people are connecting the overturning of Roe with other power grabs by the Republicans.—especially when Trump or whoever publicly says they're going to weaponize the government against political opponents. They're definitely seen more and more as fascists, and they're less and less shy about admitting it.

Listening to an interview on NPR about a book that just came out about the economist Milton Friedman, written by a very scholarly professor called, The Last Conservative. (He'd be regarded as a Progressive today.) She was asked what she thought Friedman would say about today's Republican Party and she cited something in his biography about how there were always people exactly like this around, and they were regarded as the fringe elements. They didn't represent either party. They fact that they now have actually become the party was extremely concerning.

First you'd have to tell these idiots what "fascism" means (if they saw the word written out, I doubt they would be able to pronounce it). Then if you tell them, "Well, you know -- like the Nazis," they'd say, "Yeah! I wanna do that! Kill all the Ni----s, Sp-cs, and J--s!! I'm up for that!"

That's the problem in a nutshell -- the deplorables think fascism is a [bold]good[/bold] thing!

A lot of the Deplorables are not as dumb as we think. It's just that they mix their facts with their Crazy. Too many of them have history mixed up with the myths and conspiracies and bullshit they find online, but they know who Hitler is and they know that Fascism involved racial supremacy. I recently saw a picture, might have been here on DL, of a group of "Mothers for Liberty" the book banners. It was a group photo with the Proud Boys and the fat, little middle aged fraus were all giving the White Supremacy hand signal. The know what that means.

Most of the Deplorables also aspire to cheating on their taxes and fucking their daughters. It's too bad more of them didn't die of Covid. They are trash (and yes, I have a few of these as relatives, the world will be a better place when they're taking a dirtnap).

R93 So anyone who makes you think in a way other than mainstream media groupthink must be a Psy Op? I feel bad for you.

Michael Steel was on some MSNBC Panel and they were talking about how outrageous Trump behaved this past week, and they wanted to "discuss" it. They went to Steel first and he said no other U.S. citizen would be afforded the leeway Trump has been given. Then he looked into the camera and said very emphatically, "Put his ass in jail!" I stood up and cheered.

R274 here sorry I spelled it wrong. It's Steele, not Steel.

7.9 billion people on Earth and not one assassination attempt? You deserve him.