'Doctor Who' 60th Anniversary Specials

I am so fucking excited for this. I have watched the trailer a ridiculous number of times. The trailer is incredible. I can't wait to see Donna Noble again.

[quote]The trailer is incredible.

Has a very cinematic look to it

Catherine Tate is so good in this. As is the woman who plays her mother who is so similar to Anne Reid.

Tennant and Tate have such good chemistry.

I've not watched Heartstopper but is Yasmin Finney as stiff in that as she is in this? She sounds medicated.

Gone. Full. Tranny.

Great special. I loved the new Tardis control room. The plot twist was seen from a mile away.

R5 Do you mean the tranny? Or the solving of the Doctor/Donna problem?

I'm guessing that there is a gap between the regeneration and this incident. Typically, the Doctor needs lots of time to adjust while he is 'still cooking'. Right from the beginning he was all there and having fun. When he regenerated he was confused about having the same face. In this episode he had made peace with it and no longer wondered. This episode may have happened years after the regeneration, no?

He did Children in need inbetween, and said an hour ago he was a fantastic woman, so, at least an hour.

The trans/pronouns thing with Jason/Rose and the Meep was as subtle as a turd in jiffy bag but it was very RTD. It didn't help that Rose looks like Strictly's Johannes in a cheap wig and was wooden throughout. Donna's relationship with her mother was always difficult and highlighting Donna's experience as a mother was well done. But the whole "trans as a super power" reveal was ridiculous.

Neil Patrick Harris needs to save the day now.

Abysmal.

[quote]and DL fave NPH as a hammy gay villain of some sort.

Hammy gay like Batman's Caesar Romero's Joker, or hammy gay, caftan wearing Victor Buono's King Tut?

I wish they started the episode with either a "Previously On..." or just went straight into the episode, because that intro with him talking to us was so awkward. The mixing of SD and HD footage was jarring as well and, more importantly, made me feel like on old bitch.

DL fave Miriam Margolyes did fantastic voice work as Meep, but she's always excelled at that, so no surprise there. The twist was obvious from the start, like r5 said.

I really wish they treated the trans and nonbinary stuff more organically, especially because these people themselves say they don't want to be presented (only) in preachy PSAs. Feels so '90s and that's unfortunately just RTD showing his age. Same for the disabled stuff. It's not doing anyone any favours, it just serves to give the showrunner the false impression that he's changing the world. Hopefully they got it out of their system now and we can have more subtlety going forward, especially with the black gay Doctor entering stage soon. I don't want pushback from the haters because they feel they're being lectured to.

Preachiness aside, the episode felt like quintessential RTD Doctor Who – nowhere near as polished and convoluted as Moffat, not as boring and clunky as Chibnall, but rather just campy and fun. Which isn't bad and I think I might start watching the show again.

Oh, and Catherine Tate is ridiculously good at this, as r3 already mentioned. So much fun to watch, I'm glad she'll get more than a one-off special.

Loved the episode. Loved almost everything about it. David Tennant WAS the Doctor without missing a beat. His chemistry with Catherine Tate couldn't have been any better. The plot was admittedly simple, but the relationships were written beautifully. Especially Sylvia and Donna were quite complex. Donna's poor husband got a bit of a short stick but otherwise everybody was fun to watch. I didn't notice any heavy handed preachiness. The pronoun discussion with the Meep and the soldier apologizing for the stairs were a bit on the nose, but otherwise it was fine to me.

This is the most I've enjoyed Who in years. Tennant and Tate didn't miss a beat. If anything, I'm only sad we're only getting two more of these.

I actually think the pronoun stuff and the binary/non-binary bit wasn't so much about being a PSA, it was kind of there to intentionally troll the people who would post angry missives about how the show just raped their childhoods on Twitter.

It's clear the BBC put Disney's money to really good use. The look of the special was a level beyond even the highest production values we've seen before.

All Hail the Meep!

Looking around online, people seem to have loved the episode, heavy-handedness notwithstanding. It's quite the feat for RTD to pull people back to his era of Doctor Who so quickly and seamlessly. Fingers crossed this isn't just down to Tennant's and Tate's chemistry and continues even after Gatwa's arrival.

[quote]The look of the special was a level beyond even the highest production values we've seen before.

I agree when it comes to the street battle and the sonic screwdriver stuff, but I think Moffat's episodes looked... glossier somehow? Or maybe the set design was just more twee during his tenure and that's what's throwing me off.

I miss Catherine Tate's old teeth BUT her veneers are fantastic, so she gets a pass. I'd like to get mine done where she got them done, for sure. Her bangs have also gotten an upgrade since her old Donna days, they are just majestic.

I have to finish Queen of Oz one of these days, loved it but didn't finish it because there was just too much other stuff to watch.

I tried watching Queen Of Oz but it was soooooo poor.

I couldn't remember the lottery ticket storyline from the 00s - can someone remind me?

At the conclusion of "The End of Time," when Ten was going around visiting all his companions before he regenerated, when he went to see (from a distance) Donna and Shaun's wedding, he left her a winning lottery ticket as a wedding present.

[quote]I tried watching Queen Of Oz but it was soooooo poor.

Really? I thought it was really well-written comedy, I love seeing horrible people having to eat shit five times harder than they dish it out. It felt like watching Trump be put through the wringer, oddly relaxing.

I also have no memory of the lottery arc.

Dr. Who became far too HIP for me years ago- they are desperate to please a young demographic.

I liked it better in the 1970's with Tom Baker- he was my favorite for some reason.

[quote]I also have no memory of the lottery arc.

It's not an arc. It's like one snippet of a scene.

So, Ten goes around and interacts briefly with all his companions--He saves Martha and Mickey from a Sontaran, keeps Luke from getting hit by a car and says goodbye to Sarah Jane, arranges an introduction between Jack and (the extremely masculine) Russell Tovey's character Alonso from "Voyage of the Damned," visits the great-granddaughter of the woman he romanced in "Human Nature"/"Family of Blood" (who is named Verity Newman after Verity Lambert and Sydney Newman), has a brief moment with Rose shortly before she meets Nine, and gives Wilf the lottery ticket for Donna.

Thanks. And god damn, that's a lot of money, I totally get her melting down. Her house looked kinda posh though, so she's not exactly struggling. Speaking as one, poor people don't have ceilings that high.

Had no idea Baker was still around, he looked so frail in his last cameo in 2013. Christ, has it really been a decade since The Day of the Doctor? That's crazy.

[quote]Had no idea Baker was still around, he looked so frail in his last cameo in 2013.

He did a cameo when they released "Shada" with the missing scenes filled in with animation, which was in like 2018 or so.

The man's almost 90. I'm just impressed he's still so sharp.

Yeah, I was going through his IMDb and saw he still does some voice work here and there, impressive.

[quote]So, Ten goes around and interacts briefly with all his companions--He saves Martha and Mickey from a Sontaran, keeps Luke from getting hit by a car and says goodbye to Sarah Jane, arranges an introduction between Jack and (the extremely masculine) Russell Tovey's character Alonso from "Voyage of the Damned," visits the great-granddaughter of the woman he romanced in "Human Nature"/"Family of Blood" (who is named Verity Newman after Verity Lambert and Sydney Newman), has a brief moment with Rose shortly before she meets Nine, and gives Wilf the lottery ticket for Donna.

Thank you - I remember this now.

I have a desire to watch Turn Left now. And Blink. And the one with Tracy Ann Oberman as Yvonne Hartman.

they were def after the hip/youth crowd in the 70s. see your birth certificate.

they bought a house in london and taxes, etc. is why they must keep working.

Conversely, I have a desire to travel forward in time and watch the damn Ncuti Gatwa episodes already, I'm so curious as to how that'll work out. NPH already let it slip last year that the whole thing will be super gay, but I wonder how that'll be handled in practice. Will we get a male River Song for him to smooch? Do Time Lords do bigamy?

Is the Rose better better on Sex Education. Cause boring as fuck here.

She's in Heartstopper, not Sex Education. And she's okay there, if a bit stilted at times. Definitely one of the weakest members of the cast though, along with that asexual aspie and the blonde lesbian. I actually winced at Donna's "she's a horrible actress" joke because yikes, RTD couldn't have known it would land on a meta level as well.

I'm still chuckling at the thought of a 14-year-old kid lecturing a 900-year-old gender-fluid alien on pronouns. I mean, how does shit like that not get flagged in the writers' room?

R31 Thank you, I don't watch those shows.

Heard an interview with RTD. Says the end of the specials will show something never seen before. I think he may kill The Doctor, and then Rose will regenerate into new Who. Of course, that would be bad optics, but he seems obsessed now with serving the haters.

I mean, at the end of the specials Tennant will regenerate into a black gay man, played by Ncuti Gatwa. Which is technically something we have never seen before, lol.

I fell off the Chibnall train very early on, but didn't he introduce many things we'd never seen before as well? Did a quick search just now and apparently the Doctor is no longer from Gallifrey, he regenerated multiple times before the First Doctor, and he now has endless regenerations. Huge alterations to the canon from a relatively poor showrunner, very interesting.

R33 Everyone hates The Timeless Child.

r34 Dear lord, that was abysmal. And I'm not just talking about the writing, but the whole package. Not even the dreamy Sacha Dhawan with his velvety voice and the beautiful hair and the perfectly-trimmed beard could sell that horseshit to me, and I once lobbied hard on DL for him to be cast as the next Doctor AND the next Bond.

I mean, just laughable. Chibnall did that one trauma porn show – relying on shock value of paedophilia before the whole QAnon hysteria – that took off among the fraus and suddenly he gets the reins to Doctor Who? They should have left the show rest for a couple of years instead.

Well only 4 weeks and a day until The Church on Ruby Road.

I was a casual fan as a child (Peter Davison regenerating into Colin Baker was my era) and enjoyed the Eccleston series. The Tennant era got better and better and Matt Smith was enjoyable but by the time of Capaldi it all felt like it had been done before. Cybermen again. Daleks again.

The quality of the writing but also the calibre of the actors made the series. Simon Callow, Annette Badland, Penelope Wilton, Pauline Collins, Shirley Henderson, Carey Mulligan, Derek Jacobi, Sarah Lancashire, Miss Kylie Ann Minogue, Alex Kingston, Lindsay Duncan, Gemma Chan, David Harewood, Timothy Dalton and Clare Bloom. That's just the RTD era and I know I've forgotten some.

The Michael Gambon Katherine Jenkins Christmas Carol episode was one of the most beautiful pieces of TV.

[quote]Carey Mulligan

If Sally Sparrow had been played by anyone else, "Blink" never would have worked.

OK, so this was the first of the three intermezzo episodes before the Ncuti episodes?

What was it titled?

"The Star Beast."

Also, if you want to stream Classic Who, it's available on BritBox with a subscription or Tubi with commercials.

Eldrad must live!

Doctor Woo.

Hail to the Meep!

Tennant was so hot 15 years ago.

He is a bit jowly these days, isn't he? Which is unfortunate because it serves to remind me of my own developing jowls. Gravity sucks.

He can still run like hell, though.

One of my favourite bits was the idiotic "scientific" things they were calling out to each other when trying to prevent the rocket from taking off. "Inculcate the thrusters", etc.

Yeah, I cringed at the first one, thinking the writers made a mistake and used the wrong words, but then realised the whole thing was a gag and a bit of a parody of Star Trek's technobabble.

REVERSE THE POLARITY OF THE NEUTRON FLOW!

First look at Christmas special. New companion was obviously cast to make him appear taller, which is smart. Both their jackets give off a comforting vibe, this is going to be so damn cosy, I can feel it already.

[quote]During an appearance on the BBC's Morning Live, Davies teased what viewers can expect from the Christmas Day episode: "It's really exciting, it's thrilling, it's explosive, it's brilliant. You've seen Ncuti in Sex Education, he is just the most phenomenal human being. Christmas Day is a new start again, come and join a brand new adventure."

Okay, don't oversell it, babe.

Some of the online bullying of Yasmin Finney is quite unpleasant.

This scene was so unflattering and does make it obvious that she is a young adult male playing a school age teenager, which makes the "male presenting" line really unfortunate

r48 I can almost feel the hammer coming out of that telly to beat me over the head. The explanation that Donna survived the metacrisis because she had a kid was sufficient already – if also problematic because you're implying simply breeding saved a woman's life – but then they just kept going. I do think the writers were kinda backed into a corner because they couldn't have Donna and her kid running around with all this power inside them, they needed definitive closure for her character. Hence this wince-inducing moment.

R48 I can't act, don't ask me.

I *just* found out that Tenant and Tate were back for three episodes. I tapped out during Capaldi’s tenure because it got boring as hell and never saw any of Whittaker’s but I had to watch this because Ten and Donna are my favorite Doctor and companion and I really felt like they ruined her ending. I was absolutely convinced that Donna Noble was “The Woman” regenerated after thousands of years and was actually the Doctor’s mother. Somewhere along the line it was said he was half human. Her name was Donna Noble Temple which literally translates to Lady Time Lord! And when The Woman kept appearing it was to Donna’s grandfather Wilf. All signs pointed to Donna=the Doctor’s mom, and they went out of their way to make it clear there was never any romantic feelings between the two.

But a friend told me that theory was explained away in the seasons I missed. I’m guessing that was the Timeless Child?

I mean if River Song can regenerate simply because she was conceived by two humans on the TARDIS, surely Doctor Donna can.

But I was confused by the ending of this episode. Did Donna and Rose give up their Time Lord power or just whatever it is that would kill them?

I actually liked Rose and the actress playing her. And loved Donna’s fierce protectiveness.

So I have no idea what the hell is going on, but it was great to see Tenant and Tate back together. Surely they’re the most popular Doctor and companion of the modern series.

I’ll watch the next two specials, but I may tap out again. It sounds like they’ve taken the story so off the rails that it’ll be impossible to ever fix.

But who knows. If you have a machine that can travel through time AND space, I guess any problem can be corrected.

[quote]Did Donna and Rose give up their Time Lord power or just whatever it is that would kill them?

Yes, they completely shed any Time Lord powers they had.

It made no sense. Non binary explodey time lord power and....stuff?

[quote]Yes, they completely shed any Time Lord powers they had.

Well, then that was dumb! And it seems like lazy writing to make it something so easy to give up.

Donna's original ending was cruel and made no sense in the first place, so I'm not bothered by this resolution being equally silly. They simply needed an excuse to relieve her of her powers and de-gaslight her, and they chose the currently relevant social issue to do it.

Nah, RTD would have chosen that issue 20 years ago. He's always been woke.

He absolutely would not have covered trans issues twenty years ago, the whole gay Torchwood thing was considered extremely progressive already. And the non-binary thing wasn't even around yet. I recall the zeitgeist of that time period and no one was even fucking talking about trans people, we were too busy fighting for marriage equality.

There were heaps of gay jokes in the Eccleston and Tennant Doctor Who, before Torchwood existed. It was very clear in Who that Captain Jack was not only rampantly bisexual but fancied Tennant. There was also the more serious storyline about the little gay boy amidst the celebrations of the Coronation in 1952. So all of that was very woke, considering that Who was considered a show that children would watch.

Trans issues were not the Zeitgeist, but they always existed (cf Priscilla Queen of the Desert). If they had been relevant to one of his plots, as they were to this one, he'd have included them then for sure. You're right however that "non-binary" per se was only invented recently.

RTD made a point of making Eccleston/Tennant era whatever the 00s version of woke was.

Class, race, sexuality. Teenager Rose Tyler, working class shop girl with her black boyfriend living in a council block estate with mum. Aspirational middle class black medical student Martha Jones. Captain Jack and Ianto and the Victorian lesbians and all the other gay friendly stuff.

I'm not sure if it's surprising if RTD hasn't faced any consequence for the appalling culture on set with Barrowman's behaviour. As Noel Clarke said, it's different if you're gay.

Times were different back then in that regard as well, hence Weinstein doing what he was doing pretty much out in the open and people just kinda going along with it, even joking about it.

Did anyone else notice that to unlock Donna’s memory of him the Doctor just had to recite his 10 word crypto wallet password?

I mean, that's sort of how the American president would launch nukes as well. It's been proven that just two or three random words together make for an extremely strong password, even without any bells and whistles.

[quote]This scene was so unflattering and does make it obvious that she is a young adult male playing a school age teenager, which makes the "male presenting" line really unfortunate

LITERAL. VIOLENCE.

I chuckled when granny slipped with the pronouns in the kitchen and Donna looked at her like she was J. K. Rowling incarnate. How can you look at your own mother like she's nothing but a turd over such a simple mistake? That look of disgust should be reserved for certified deplorable members of the family, in my opinion. Like, proper outspoken Trump voters who didn't see the light in 2020 and are voting for him again next year.

I wasn’t bothered at all by the Rose character or actress, but it seemed kinda like they were implying that all the suppressed memories Donna had of her time with the Doctor came out in life by doing things like giving away all the lottery money and having a daughter named Rose.

But wouldn’t have Rose chosen that name for herself? I guess they could argue that some of those memories ended up in Rose along with the Time Lord energy and knowledge (which I still think that just “letting go” of was a stupid way to end that problem!)

R65 he is a shit actor, without question. Little charisma and just stands there.

shut up and when is the new one?

Why are trans actors so bad?

eyebrows are hard to finesse.

I understand the bad ratings and reviews.

It wasn't woke enough. Obviously.

Let's make this happen, Doctrexx Whose

I hope the trans haters all get killed by a trans Dalek this Christmas. “EXXXTERRRMINATE! SASHAY! SLAAAAYYY!”

My holiday wish. 😇🥳🤗

r68, not true. I was quite captivated by the evil genius of Jesse James Keitel on Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. Really liked her on that pitiful Big Sky. As ANY actor, she is not only quite good, she has a very watchable quality.

R72, you just named the rare Dodo bird.

R65, it is stated that Rose DID choose that name for herself.

If I've understood correctly, the reason Donna didn't die when she recognised the Doctor was that back when she had Rose or whatever his name was (I missed the male name on my one viewing) part of the Time Lord in her passed to Rose. "They" (meaning Rose, not Rose and Donna) thus started to do things like choose that name, make stuffed toys that looked like aliens Donna had met, etc. Because it was spread out across the two, the effect wasn't strong enough to kill either of them. That's where the "binary/non-binary" joke came in, although if we look closely the cure is in the binary, and the non-binary mentions are just for wokeness.

I look forward to the day IT gets attacked for being binary.

More images from the Christmas special. Nice to see Davina doing some dramatic acting. Those goblins look so friggin' cute!

r67 Next episode airs tomorrow.

R71 Daleks are binary.

So the first of three interim episodes was The Star Beast.

The second is going to be Wild Blue Yonder (A Christmas Special).

And a third unnamed

AMIRITE?

OK, The Church on Ruby Road is?

[quote]And a third unnamed

The third one is called “The Giggle” and is on December 9th, r77

The second one, Wild Blue Yonder, airs tomorrow December 2nd.

Ok, the last episode of the Jodie S13 series Doctor Who S13 E10 The Power of the Doctor.

The RTD interim episodes are

The Star Beast

Wild blue Yonder

The Giggle

with the Christmas Special

The Church on Ruby Road.

OK, is that correct?

R80 Children In Need.

I heard that RTD was going back to the minisodes of 11.

Is this one of them, r81?

R82 No, it was the Children In need special. That is a charity drive on British TV every year for children, they have done them since the start. So, connected but separate.

R82 This was the big one, between 10 and 11.

I have a whole bunch of "Night and the Doctor" minis.

I thought that DW did Red Nose days as well?

Comic Relief.

Is Comic Relief Red Nose Day?

Wild Blue Yonder didn’t feel like an episode big enough to be part of the 60th anniversary celebrations. Felt more like a mid season filler.

^ I thought so, too. Didn't feel special, more like a bottle show.

I was (stupidly) sure they were going to end it without him realizing before they left. It’s not like ANY of the Doctor’s companions end up living happily ever after their encounters with him. They may ultimately get some small reward somewhere down the road. Rose was left in tears in an alternate dimension and thought she’d never see him again until they gave her a human Doctor years later. Donna’s whole memory was wiped. Poor Amy and Rory had to live the rest of their lives in a small apartment in Brooklyn in the 1920s reliving the same day for eternity, Clara is a millisecond away from death and has to spend the rest of her life traveling the universe with Arya Stark AFTER they killed her boyfriend in a car accident(!), and I don’t even want to talk about what they did to Bill! I couldn’t even watch the 13th Doctor, so I just assume something awful happened to her companions as well. Even his own WIFE died the very first day he met her.

Martha and Mickey ended up married, but they also ended up working for UNIT, so I’m guessing it’s more likely that one or both of them died during an alien invasion when the Doctor wasn’t around and never got to have kids much less grandkids to hold.

Basically, meeting the Doctor sounds like the worst thing that could possibly happen to you.

If a Brit of any age, gender, or race pops out of a big blue police box, and asks you if you want a ride, the answer should be a stern NO.

See all of time and space? No. I’d rather still be alive and on earth after 13 episodes, thank you very much.

Isaac Newton is works in a call center.

[quote]Wild Blue Yonder didn’t feel like an episode big enough to be part of the 60th anniversary celebrations. Felt more like a mid season filler.

It should have been a 45 minute episode not an hour long special. Tate and Tennant clearly had fun making it but it was a chore.

clever to do doctor-donna/doctor before the big reveal.

I’m not following you r93. Do what with Doctor-Donna/Donna before what big reveal?

bring in them before the new doctor to gain viewership.

Green screen and some of the CG looked really iffy towards the start, but I don't know whether it improved later on or if I just got used to it. Definitely doesn't look like your Doctor Who of old. Fun episode, I enjoyed it even more than last week's. Neither have felt particularly like 60th anniversary specials, although I have a suspicion that was always just a marketing gimmick; the real purpose of these is to be the least awkward bridge possible between Whittaker and Gatwa. Some acknowledgement of Chibnall's arcs here and there, but also a very palpable desire to move on.

RTD ever so slowly working the gay/bisexual/ pansexual angle in, did you catch that remark by Donna?

RTD slowly working in gay/bisexual/pansexual r96? Well bless your heart.

I meant specifically for the Doctor, not just in general.

So what was the pre-title scene with Isaac Newton about? Did that have any relevancy for the rest of the episode or 14th arc?

Mavity.

The purpose of the Newton scene was just to introduce the running mavity gag, and also to piss off the kind of people RTD wants to piss off by casting a POC actor as Newton.

R101 So completely pointless, then.

R102 Like the specials so far.

Isaac Newton was played by gay actor Nathanial Curtis from It’s A Sin, the tall Indian guy who told Olly Alexander to wash his arse before he fucked him.

Having a camp non white Isaac Newton to open the show and get the anti woke brigade frothing did the trick.

It is just silly, he is a historical figure.

I’m actually really glad they didn’t retcon the Timeless Child stuff.

Not that I think it was great or necessary, but because I’d much rather see the show owning its shit instead of trying to pretend it didn’t happen.

It’s very clear that RTD has no fucks to give about the Twitter chattering class, and I’m here for it.

R106 But the stories are utter shite, and that is actually all that matters. Not the tantrums of a sad man trying to be hip for the mentally ill.

Potentially controversial new Doctor Who mythology to be unveiled in the Christmas special. (Let me guess, he's been into dick this whole time.) Also, a lot more fantasy to be introduced in Season 14.

[quote]“The show is taking a sly step towards fantasy, which will annoy people to whom it’s a hard science-fiction show.”

Anyone who thinks that Doctor Who has ever been "hard science fiction," has no idea what that term means.

This is going to be really shit, isn't it?

Well, when Donna said he wasn't from Gallifrey, he seemed to be visibly upset.

It seems to set the Chinball nonsense into Cannon.

Doctor Who is not science fiction, it's science fantasy.

r111 Indeed. Just stupid.

[quote]It seems to set the Chinball nonsense into Cannon.

That must have been quite painful for Aileen.

I hope it was, rammed into the cannon and shoved up her ass.

KERBLAM!

I didn't recognise the very handsome Charlie de Melo from Coronation Street without his beard.

The Indian Isaac Newron was ridiculous.

Last week's episode felt stretched out and this episode felt too rushed. NPH clearly had ball but the WORLD IN PERIL aspect was so brief and weak. Maybe it made sense to the hard core fans who remember the Toymaker. That ball game???? What the fuck was that? Did they run out of money? The Spice Girls scene made me think of John Simm doing the Scissor Sisters.

Overall the 3 episodes were very underwhelming but maybe I'm not a big enough fan or too old now to appreciate it.

I have thoroughly enjoyed all three of these. Knowing that they can bring in Donna and Mel makes me more interested in the UNIT spinoff that Disney apparently wants.

Also, they’re not being subtle about Fifteen being gay, and I’m here for it.

I’m excited for what comes next, and I haven’t been like this for a long time.

There’s a preview for “The Church of Ruby Road” on the Doctor Who YouTube, and it’s got Fifteen dancing in what appears to be a gay bar.

It’s also so upbeat. I’m encouraged.

How come nobody ever commented on the fact that he regenerated (bigenerated?) with a shirt and tie but no pants? I kept thinking I was imagining that he was in his underwear because nobody never said anything and he still never put pants on.

Whatever. I like him.

[quote]How come nobody ever commented on the fact that he regenerated (bigenerated?) with a shirt and tie but no pants?

Watch the scene again. Both Doctors are left with one half of the full attire on them – Tennant has the undershirt, the vest, and the pants, while Gatwa has the shirt, the tie, and the boxers. As I was watching the scene, I actually thought to myself that Tennant's balls must suddenly be feeling really chilly up there on that tower.

I enjoyed it, although that intro was so rushed and its editing choppy (Charlie de Melo is a handsome fucker). The music was so loud throughout, I struggled to hear the dialogue at times. I suppose this is what NPH meant by the series being super gay – confetti and lipsyncing to Spice Girls and doing snow angels in rose petals. We'll see if that sort of sensibility carries on into the next season as well. Gatwa is sporting a skirt in that Christmas special trailer, so I suppose that'll very much be the case. I just hope he's more fun now after letting Tennant deal with all the past trauma. Clean slate.

Basically no payoff to the fact that everyone in the real world was cancelling each other, RTD just used that bit for a throwaway line. No mention of the fact that Donna put her own mother on cancellation notice for misgendering Rose that one time.

Really not a fan of how disabled people were presented in these two episodes. Everyone was policing their language and constantly asking whether she was offended. That hasn't been my experience with wheelchair-bound people at all. In fact, they all fucking hate that patronising bullshit that centres their disability in their interactions with others.

What was going on with Gatwa's Rs? Some of them were rhotic and some of them were not? It was jarring, I'm sure there's a creative reason behind it. Perhaps he's still transitioning?

The actor playing Ibrahim is tall and handsome, but he walks quite doily – not so much like a seasoned special ops guy, more like a male model sashaying down the catwalk. So that made me laugh. Here pictured smelling cookies with Joanna Lumley and a Stevie Nicks knockoff of some kind. His hair looks much nicer here than that horrid greasejob they gave him on the show.

This extra in the back crossed the screen early on and he has a nice ass, but he very clearly has never held a corded phone in his life. Was there no one around to show him how it's done? Or was the extras wrangler a clueless Zoomer as well?

[quote]The Indian Isaac Newron was ridiculous.

The thread about this on the main Europe subreddit exploded and had to be locked, so I guess the casting achieved its purpose. I just find it funny that in a show with a flying, time-travelling phone box, *this* is where some people draw the line.

God, I want Tennant to pound my bussy.

Some viewers seem to forget that the Whoniverse isn't our universe and never has been. To be fair, Chibnall with his sledgehammer finger-wagging also seemed to forget this. Anyone who was genuinely and seriously worried about anachronism in Dr Who, rather than promoting an agenda, would have had a aneurism decades ago. Getting into a froth over a fantasy series is ludicrous.

Don't we all, R126?

This beauty, Glen Fox, went to RADA, but is now operating a Jewish space laser on Doctor Who. The joys of showbiz, eh?

I wouldn't mind him blasting my buss with whatever he wanted.

Out of costume.

I love fixating on extras and bit parts I'll probably never see again.

[quote] The Indian Isaac Newton was ridiculous

Imagine the uproar if they travelled back in time to early 1960s Alabama and met up with Dr. Martin Luther King, as portrayed by Matt Bomer.

Specious logic, seeing how the whites weren't the ones being enslaved and later discriminated against.

R132 is using illogical (SJW) thinking. R131 is correct.

What's next? Othello as Asian?

He is not, in fact, correct. And I feel bad for you for not understanding the concept of punching down. You'd think a homo would be familiar with that, although you do type like someone who's lived a largely sheltered life.

Punching down = another SJW concept. You must be a Gen Z'er.

Nathaniel Curtis is the actor who played Isaac Newton - as mentioned previously he was in It's A Sin.

He's a British actor with some Indian heritage.

Does the X% Indian heritage cancel out all future roles as British historical figures?

Yes, it does.

R136 Yes, it does.

Gotta say, RTD introduced Ncuti Gatwa in the most flattering outfit. Those legs, and that ass in white boxer briefs. Hmmm...

The BBC's own review of the new series.

In fact, it's difficult to imagine even the most fervent fan being anything other than a little underwhelmed by this first special.

And although the show has always been progressive – look at the number of stories over the decades about, for example, threats to the environment – this special is preachy, and by the end, little more than a delivery system for 𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝑴𝒆𝒔𝒔𝒂𝒈𝒆.

I hope the gold tooth doesn't mean that this incarnation is gone. Would love to see much more of him.

Yes, they were, R132, at least enslaved. The Barbary pirates and Western Asian slave takers were still active in Isaac Newton's lifetime, channelling large numbers of white slaves into the Ottoman Empire and North Africa. True, they didn't end up a discriminated-against minority, due to them being mostly castrated or worked to death on the galleys.

[quote]Watch the scene again. Both Doctors are left with one half of the full attire on them – Tennant has the undershirt, the vest, and the pants, while Gatwa has the shirt, the tie, and the boxers.

R122, thank you. I TOTALLY missed that!! I guess because 14’s undershirt was white like his other shirt, I didn’t even realize he’s lost it, his tie and shoes. (Or I was so enthralled by 15’s legs and lack of pants I pretty much stopped paying attention to 14!!)

I was slightly disappointed to see the trailer for the Christmas special and that 15 now has pants. 😝

[quote]Punching down = another SJW concept. You must be a Gen Z'er.

To be fair, I'm a Boomer and "punching down" is a concept that's been used all my life. Chris Lilley always gave me the creeps, even when dealing with a privileged character like the private schoolgirl, because he always punches down. In J'aime's case, she may be privileged in class and race but she was a whole lot younger than Lilley.

r142 Wrong, it wasn't nearly as systematic and didn't occur in such enormous numbers as the Transatlantic slave trade, you're being obtuse on purpose. But I don't really intend to discuss this "the whites had it just as bad" line of argument with someone who is quite obviously incredibly racist.

People who continue to use the term "SJW" in the year of our Lord 2023 are just pathetic. I have nothing to say to those dinosaur turds that time has passed by, I just block at this point.

r122, so, in other words, Tennant is freeballing the rest of the episode?

So, R145, you shift the goalposts from 'It didn't happen to whites' to 'It didn't happen so much to whites' - classic arguing in bad faith. And it was you who brought the subject up in the first place, of course,

Well, that's what RTD would like you to think, R147. Not wanting to put the dampeners on you, but it IS acting.

Um, r145 and 148, it may be just me, but here in this Doctor Who thread I really don't care about the outcome of your niche dispute. Why don't you just sit back for an hour, watch Doctor Who as intended - as entertainment for the whole family. Just have fun.

Something must be fun to have fun with it. RTD reaching a hammer through the screen and pounding home "the message" isn't very jolly.

Neil Patrick Harris' Toymaker dance was good but even there the Doctor has to interrupt to tell UNIT "nothing is binary".

And I already knew Neil could dance.

R146 sounds like he needs a safe space and maybe some crayons and puppies to play with.

i always sneered at this series because of the dorky fandom but there must be something to it. where do dlers recommend starting?

r153, at the reboot of the crummy kids show, Ninth Doctor Episode: Rose.

Here ya go r153.

Rose

Christopher Eccleston has major BDF.

Christopher Eccleston is asked what would it take to get him to return to Doctor Who.

“Sack Russell T Davies,” he said. “Sack [producer] Jane Tranter. Sack Phil Collinson. Sack Julie Gardner. And I’ll come back. So can you arrange that?”

He sounds bitter. And it probably had more weight if others agreed with him. But nobody does. Not only had David Tennant the best time ever with Davies, Tranter, Collinson and Gardner as Ten; he even came back to work more with them. Maybe it's you, Chris. Besides, didn't Davies even apologize for not being the best and most protective producer in 2004/2005? I guess that wasn't enough for an apology, or there was more.

It's a shame really. I liked Eccleston's Nine a lot. It was such a unique version of the Doctor.

I knew some people working on the reboot series of Doctor Who in 2004 and it was a shitshow as has been documented by others. Chaotic, unprofessional and very, very unhappy.

Eccleston had been in countless big budget movies and prestige tv productions by that point - Our Friends In The North, Cracker, Hillsborough, Clocking Off, Othello and The Second Coming were all BAFTA nominated with most winning - and he was appalled by what was going on. Yes Eccleston can be pompous but he was the voice of calm and experience on the set.

Billie Piper was only 21 but making a "comeback" and as famous for her drug use and failed marriage as she was for her music career. Cast in a major acting role with limited acting experience. The definition of vulnerable, but she wasn't supported by the mostly gay male crew and production team.

John Barrowman's behaviour on set was not just well known but encouraged by some senior members of the production team. David Tennant commented about the culture on set and how he and Steven Moffat were often the only two straight men, and they'd go off together and talk about straight things. Phil Collinson left the set for a period during one of the later series.

But back to Eccleston, a statement was released by the BBC saying he was "tired" after the filming of the first series and that's why he wasn't returning. The BBC apologised after threats of legal action, something the BBC rarely does.

Despite that, the rebooted series won Best Drama Series at the 2006 BAFTAs.

[quote] the rebooted series won Best Drama Series at the 2006 BAFTAs.

And in 2023 it comes to this.

The producers killed Doctor Who with the woke bullshit this season.

[quote] The producers killed Doctor Who with the woke bullshit this season.

Perhaps a bit sooner

The series is not being received well by those who are actually watching it. On IMDb, “The Star Beast” received a 5.2 rating out of 10. “Wild Blue Yonder” has a 6.5 out of 10, and “The Giggle” currently has a 7.5 out of 10.

Overall, the series has a 6.6 out of 10 rating.

Doctor Who ratings on IMDb

The series fares even worse on Rotten Tomatoes. The show currently has a 43% average audience score.

Doctor Who ratings on Rotten Tomatoes

The series has also been lampooned by previous fans of the series. Pop culture expert and lover of old Doctor Who, Gary Buechler, the host of the YouTube channel Nerdrotic savaged “The Star Beast” episode noting it was “sacrificed on the altar of agenda” and that “the now third reboot of Doctor Who was murdered in its crib.”

RELATED: Showrunner Russell T Davies Promises Ncuti Gatwa’s Run As The Doctor Will “Unroll A Whole New Doctor Who Mythology,” Admits New Fantasy Focus “Will Annoy People”

It’s unlikely the series viewership will recover, but will instead continued its continued decline. In fact, showrunner Russell T. Davies announced that upcoming episodes of the show will “annoy people.”

He told Radio Times, “The show is taking a sly step towards fantasy, which will annoy people to whom it’s a hard science-fiction show.”

Davies added, “Episode two next year is wildly fantasy. Completely making up scenarios on-screen that we’ve never been able to show before. But the following episode is proper hard science-fiction.”

Showrunner Russell T Davies Promises Ncuti Gatwa’s Run As The Doctor Will “Unroll A Whole New Doctor Who Mythology,” Admits New Fantasy Focus “Will Annoy People”

It’s unlikely the series viewership will recover, but will instead continued its continued decline. In fact, showrunner Russell T. Davies announced that upcoming episodes of the show will “annoy people.”

He told Radio Times, “The show is taking a sly step towards fantasy, which will annoy people to whom it’s a hard science-fiction show.”

^ That is some post. Per IMDb the scores are 7.0, 8.3 and 8.4. Cannot find any specific rating for the anniversary episodes on Rotten Tomatoes. I can only see that 13th last season received a viewer score of 44%. Would you please post the applicable link to the episodes with the 14th Doctor on Rotten Tomatoes?

Oh never mind. I found it.

[quote] Christopher Eccleston is asked what would it take to get him to return to Doctor Who.

I'd say one requirement is that there is someone to ask him back. If he was open for a return and the only condition was 'no RTD' then I am assuming that he wasn't asked by neither Moffat nor Chibnall. There were plenty opportunities for a return, especially for the War Doctor special. Either he wasn't ready for a return then or he wasn't asked.

RTD has written a bridge Doctor(s) to hopscotch over the fetid pile of Chinball detritus.

Like dropped stitches in crochet, RTD is pulling from 10 to14 and 15.

To further give validity to the new RTD era, Smith and Capaldi need to meet Gatwa and put further distance between Whittiker and 15.

And FFS, River Song can regenerate. Get some of that Tardis Core/Gallifrean juice to The Library and do it.

We know her mind has not degenerated with all those Women's Institute Teas with the gals. Fix her body.

And let her kill the Vasta Nerada.

The BBC's Imagine series profiled Russell T Davies this week. It's a very comprehensive review of his career that skates over Eccleston's problems and simply lies and says he couldn't do a second series.

But he talks about Queer As Folk and how scandalous it was and said if it was being made now Nathan wouldn't be a 15 year old gay boy he would be trans.

There's a clip of the Christmas episode with the goblins and all I'll say is that the TRAs obsessed with JK Rowling pushing antisemitic tropes in Harry Potter will be outraged by the episode.

I don't think Stuart Alan jones would fuck a 15 year old Tranny.

R170. Nah they’re saying that these goblins are ok. And besides it’s now acceptable to be antisemitic in their minds.

[quote][R170]. Nah they’re saying that these goblins are ok. And besides it’s now acceptable to be antisemitic in their minds.

Goblins stealing children ON CHRISTMAS DAY to feed to their fat slimy goblin king.

Apparently, if you watch the Doctor Who Christmas special on Christmas Day, you'll have a smaller chance of dying the following year. It's science and everything.

HOWLING at the trans singer/best friend introduced in the first few minutes.

Imagine the discussion RTD had with the producers. "I want to fuck of all the TERFs to make her look as many as possible. No, no facial hair, but as tall as possible and not in the slightest bit passing".

Also the department store with the falling snowball head was the same department store (Howells in Cardiff) Rose Tyler worked in when the mannequins attacked. It's since closed down.

[quote] if you watch the Doctor Who Christmas special on Christmas Day, you'll have a smaller chance of dying the following year. It's science and everything.

The new Chibnall-RTD philosophy of the show will almost certainly invalidate and reverse those old findings

Verdict: better than expected. Didn't like the Goblins and those scenes were naff and cheap looking (was Gremlins really 40 years ago?) but the introduction of Ruby and the Davina stuff was well done. Ncuti looks great and has presence.

POTENTIAL SPOILER: All the way through I was thinking that you don't cast Anita Dobson in a totally thankless role and then, well, yes.

The trailer looks ok. Jonathan Groff on period drama is delicious.

Blechhhh. Absolute shit fest. Great acting if you like cheese and ham with a big side of corn. I stopped watching because of Tennant and Tate, and returned when they left.

I've got nothing to say about Special #4, and that says it all, really.

Very likable Doctor and companion. Absolutely ridiculous and pointless plot.

I guess it can only get better from here. Or worse.

Bullshit PR piece from the Daily Mail, paid for by the BBC ?

𝐃𝐨𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐫 𝐖𝐡𝐨 𝐟𝐚𝐧𝐬 𝐠𝐨 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐝 𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫 𝐍𝐜𝐮𝐭𝐢 𝐆𝐚𝐭𝐰𝐚'𝐬 𝐝𝐞𝐛𝐮𝐭 𝐚𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐓𝐢𝐦𝐞 𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝 𝐢𝐧 𝐁𝐁𝐂 𝐂𝐡𝐫𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐦𝐚𝐬 𝐬𝐩𝐞𝐜𝐢𝐚𝐥: '𝐇𝐞 𝐢𝐬 𝐜𝐨𝐦𝐩𝐥𝐞𝐭𝐞𝐥𝐲 𝐛𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐞𝐯𝐚𝐛𝐥𝐞 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐜𝐨𝐦𝐩𝐞𝐥𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐠!'

Penned by showrunner Russell T Davies, 𝑵𝒄𝒖𝒕𝒊'𝒔 𝒑𝒆𝒓𝒇𝒐𝒓𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒄𝒆 𝒘𝒂𝒔 𝒖𝒏𝒊𝒗𝒆𝒓𝒔𝒂𝒍𝒍𝒚 𝒑𝒓𝒂𝒊𝒔𝒆𝒅 by fans, with many stunned to learn of his unexpected singing talents during the episode's musical number.

Writing a story for a news site about what people are saying on social media is the cheapest form of journalism going.

This episode had a pretty wonky feel to it, I wonder if that's due to the nature of it being a special or if this is how the whole season will feel like.

I've noticed this in The Giggle as well, but there is a thing where snappy editing – which I normally enjoy – can be too snappy. There are very few quiet moments in this that would allow for the dynamic moments to pop more. The worst example of this was Ruby being shown bored at a bar for two or three seconds before she sees the Doctor. The music is blaring throughout, so there's no contrast between her state and the moment of her seeing the Doctor. Very shoddy direction, editing, but I suspect also storyboarding by RTD. The whole thing felt like it was hastily assembled together. The goblins were cute, but also had that naff CG feel that doesn't really go with Doctor Who.

The refurbished Big Ben looks so good, although it now makes even more apparent the sad state of the Parliament building.

The lady at the end is older Ruby? Why did she look into the camera, what am I missing here?

Loved the singing, should be a regular occurrence.

Is the lady at the end older Ruby? They didn’t do a good job making it clear who she was or why she knew what a TARDIS was.

I just thought Ruby was too wide-eyed and happy while discovering that goblins were about to EAT her new baby sister!!

And nothing in the whole story even hinted at why she was important or what the significance of being born at 2 pm on Xmas eve was. Or what they’re going to do about crack, who her mother (or whoever left her) was or why she’s so drawn to the Doctor and he to her.

I could excuse a few unanswered questions if I thought they’d be answered during the season’s episodes, but they didn’t even give a single hint to ANYTHING that was going on! She was just a too happy young woman who was overly excited by a baby getting eaten and her apartment cracking in half!! So frustrating!!!

After this season, two seasons tops with the 15th Doctor, I want a 16th Doctor played by Martin Freeman or Jason Isaacs and at least ONE full season where River Song is his companion and we get to see the great romance that they’ve hinted at but never actually shown. I don’t think this is the right Doctor, him being young and gay and all.

I demand it!!

[quote] I want a 16th Doctor played by Martin Freeman or Jason Isaacs

Do you really think the BBC under its current management will ever allow another straight white male Doctor ?

It barely allows any white straight males at all.

[quote] Do you really think the BBC under its current management will ever allow another straight white male Doctor ?

Like David Tennant?

Ooh, I really like the idea of a Jason Isaacs Dr. Who.

He'd have to wear a wig of some kind, of course

I enjoyed the Xmas special, I thought it was fun. I wasn't super crazy about the musical number, and after the dance number in The Giggle, I am hoping that those aren't going to become a regular feature. Doctor Who Christmas specials are frequently cheesy, though. Spinning trees, and evil Santa robots, walking trees, snowmen, dream crabs, Kylie Minogue and the Titanic (space variety,) etc...

R189, I get that the Christmas specials are meant to be whimsical, but did Ruby need a huge smile on her face while her baby sister was kidnapped and about to be eaten by goblins and she just discovered that there are goblins and time travelers? I don’t blame the actress. She was charming. That was a script and directorial choice. It was so inappropriate.

That wasn't her baby sister, just a baby dropped off for a couple of days.

If I were her, I'd smile in wonderment and awe, too.

God, there was very little story.

I also think Anita Dobson will be another Claire Bloom situation.

[quote] Kylie Minogue and the Titanic

I thought it was lovely how they gave such an unknown person a nice supporting role. This will probably lead her obituary.

The Christmas Day episode was utter drivel. Odd to watch the two leads struggle so badly and in vain to impose themselves on their characters. Gatwa in particular seemed lost trying a bit of this and a bit of that style of acting ending up a mess.

Ironic that RTD the once saviour of the show should be the one to deliver the final nail.

r195, if you haven't noticed, Gatwa is the first reboot of New Who after the show runner who shall not be named.

Give it time. The first outing is always exposition. What was definitely exposed was Disney's devotion to CGI.

No more duct tape and bubble wrap monsters.

Both Tom Baker and Eccleston have BDF. Colin Baker was sexy when young. Tennant used to be cute

Davison was really handsome

[quote] That wasn't her baby sister, just a baby dropped off for a couple of days.

They made a big deal of her mooning over all the photos of her 32 other “family” members on the refrigerator. I think it’s fair to call the baby her sister.

[quote]If I were her, I'd smile in wonderment and awe, too.

Over a baby getting eaten inside a flying pirate ship? I’d be horrified!

Now that the 14th Doctor has his own TARDIS and seems to be living with the Noble-Temples, I decree that all future specials star David Tennant and Catherine Tate.

Forever.

I would still disagree. The baby is there for few days. She would not even care for the baby if it weren't for the goblins.

Anita Dobson has a continuing role in this season.

Also, she's married to an astrophysicist, so that's quite a nice in-joke in itself.

I wonder if "mavity" will continue into the new season along with the "anti-mavity" gloves. Do I need to teach that word to my spellcheck, which keeps changing it to cavity?

The most disconcerting thing in the episode was the sonic screwdriver being shaped like an oddly shaped remote control.

[quote] the sonic screwdriver being shaped like an oddly shaped remote control.

Gen Z gets confused by the concept of a screwdriver, but a remote they understand

OMG, if writers eliminated everything Gen Z gets confused by we'd just have wall to wall reality TV.

I'm Adopted.

Was that Chibnall residue or has he always been adopted?

I think Gatwa is very charming but the weight of this role will be tricky for him. I also prefer his natural accent which is a soft Scots as he grew up in Scotland- it’s inconsistent right now and I’m not sure it’s an acting choice.

I only watched 10 min total of Jodie, not my thing, so I hope this era is better. RTD needs to step away from the typewriter though.

R208 Chibnall bullshit.

Tristan the 5th doctor is gorgeous

R209 Interviewed him once. Utter sweetheart.

I didn’t see this posted or mentioned above but there’s a trailer for the whole season up on IMDb and Jinkx Monsoon is in it. She’s in episode 2.

It’s going to be a very, very, very gay season.

Oh. Well googling it, apparently this has been news since April!!

Never mind! Carry on.

Ever since the Moffatt years I keep wondering if names have a meaning. "Ruby Sunday"? hmmm... I also wonder if the new baby's race matching 15th's matters.

It sounded like RTD is open to pick up 'the Doctor was abandoned' idea. Wasn't that what Chibnall & the 14th started? I remember a Gallifreyan raised him up as a baby. But was he abandoned or kidnapped by the scientist?

It’s been reported / rumoured that Millie, the actress who is the latest companion has been fired for on set diva behaviour and will only be in the first 3 episodes of the second Ncuti season before being replaced.

r214 Holy shit, that's some good gossip. If it's true, she'll never work again – RTD will put up with a lot of diva behaviour, so it must have been particularly bad.

[quote] It’s been reported / rumoured

Confirmed in the Mail, the Mirror, and the Sun

Scapegoat for the poor reception to the new series ?

Poor reception of the new series? We've only had one full episode of both of them together, the other two were throwback episodes and an attempt to transition away from the Chibnall mess.

I prefer Varada Sethu, personally. Hopefully this combo doesn't alienate the white audiences too much.

I suppose this means we've seen the last of Ruby's mom and grandma as well. That's a shame.

Then this would be an epic time to bring back Bill as a companion.

The fans on Reddit are in complete denial, thinking that surely Millie's exit was planned by RTD this early on all along. No negativity tolerated, they're even saying the press is being mean to her by making it seem like she got sacked, lmao.

Trailer.

May 10th.

They're bringing back Moffat to try to save the show

Sounds like trying to save Titanic with a mop

I mean, he's writing one episode, that's hardly being called back to save the show. Certain scenes in the trailer did have a Moffatian feel to me even before I read he was returning for an episode.

Long-ass piece in EW. Beautiful stylish clothes, and he wears them well.

But for some reason I still have a bad feeling about the upcoming season, especially after seeing the trailers.

[quote] I still have a bad feeling about the upcoming season

Why would this season be different from the last six seasons

First two regular episodes of the new season are now out. So scared to check them out, though the reviews are pretty good.

R226 Same.

They were fucking awful.

That space babies shit - abysmal

I'll be contrarian. I've only watched "Space Babies" thus far, but I quite liked it. Not so much for the actual plot, but I enjoy them establishing the dynamic between the Doctor and Ruby. And while I know the whole Timeless Child bit was universally hated, I give then credit for both A) not sweeping it under the rug, and B) using it to create a parallel between Fifteen and Ruby.

Also, it looks GREAT.

They couldn't be telegraphing the Big Bad being the Rani harder, could they?

The reviews haven’t been great, to be honest. The consensus seems to be, great casting for the Doctor and companion, but not so good writing. fan feedback has been pretty scathing. I’m not sure if I’m going to invest the time after finding the Christmas episode weak and badly written. RTD seems to believe his own hype too much and more interesting in pushing messages than actually crafting great sci-fi.

R230 rewriting canon to make The Doctor a black girl tortured by the Time Lords is just fucking idiocy.

My interest kind of died when Peter Capaldi left. That era was highly underrated in my view, particularly latterly. I’ve really not enjoyed it since. I’m pretty much conceded to the fact this series just isn’t for me anymore. Like the Star Wars franchise the more they make the less it appeals to me and I wish they’d just let it rest for now.

Watched both episodes earlier on the BBC. Utter drivel. I won’t be watching any more.

I was underwhelmed by Gatwa who seems to be struggling with his acting choices and ends up flailing around and gurning to no great effect. He needn’t worry however as RTD in a recent interview clearly adores him. The actress playing Ruby Sunday is good.

How is Jinkx?

I enjoyed the baby episode, it was cute, but occasionally felt like a primer for newbies, what with all that background info. The "oh, by the way, this episode is about refugees" bit when they were talking to the nanny felt really forced. My one real complaint is that there was just this constant music playing over every single scene, there wasn't a single quiet moment where we could catch a break, so that the dramatic moments could land harder. What's up with that? And it's not particularly good score either, it's muzak-adjacent.

Gatwa feels more natural here than in his first appearance, I didn't for a second feel like he was cosplaying as the Doctor, he *was* the Doctor. I like that he revealed the Tardis to Ruby's parents in the premiere, that felt fresh.

Second episode was enjoyable as well. Jinxx was great, although maybe overdid the ham here and there. Actor playing Lennon was way cuter than the actual Lennon. The "twist" musical number at the end had no real purpose, they had one because they wanted to have one.

[quote]Jinxx was great, although maybe overdid the ham here and there.

I was expecting it to be completely gimmicky, but I thought she was great. She definitely have them their money's worth.

[quote]The "twist" musical number at the end had no real purpose, they had one because they wanted to have one.

Davies clearly has no fucks to give about anyone who's going to be triggered by the show being so damned queer, and I'm here for it. I'm not saying that I agree with every creative decision, but there's something incredibly refreshing about him doing whatever the hell he wants.

R237 What does queer mean, in these circumstances?

And you proved my point.

R239 I think you meant camp, rather than queer.

[quote] I'm not saying that I agree with every creative decision, but there's something incredibly refreshing about him doing whatever the hell he wants.

My issue with that is he should have done whatever the hell he wants with a new property instead of leeching the goodwill out of a well established mythos beloved across so many generations.

The Time Lords were mean to the Doctor when he was a little black girl? C'mon.

I winced a little whenever Jinxx roared. It was a cool transition from the soft sing-songy voice, but that can't possibly be healthy for your vocal chords. Didn't acting agents back in the day use to instruct their closeted clients to shout until their voice broke, so they would sound less femmy? It reminded me of that.

R237 hard disagree. I imagine Davies must have had somebody to rein in his worst excesses. I’m fairly shocked at how poorly written his new episodes have been, as though he’s firing out rough first drafts which don’t entirely make sense and thinking “that’s good enough”. Between that and some of the truly stupid things he’s been saying (banning Davros’s chair for a start) and I think he’s truly lost the plot. I’ve loved Dr Who since I was a kid, but it’s kind of dead for me now.

Would have much preferred having Moffat back. His stories had plots and character development.

Just watched the first episode and it was fucking dreadful. Davies just seems to be shitting out bad first draft scripts. This show seems to be tailored to the brain dead TikTok generation now.

R244 everyone seemed to hate Moffat at the time but I definitely think his tenure was a peak for the series. Both his doctors were perfectly cast and I enjoyed the companions too. When you see the list of episodes he penned it’s a pretty great body of work, albeit with the odd clunker.

The Tennant series were the best - RTD had a vision that spread over several series and was complimented by other writers.

There were forgettable episodes from RTD and other writers but the Simon Callow as Dickens, ARE YOU MY MUMMY, Blink. River Song and Agatha Christie were all fantastic.

And it helped that they had a revolving door of fantastic actors making guest appearances.

I liked elements of the Matt Smith era - the Christmas Carol one was one of the greatest ever episodes - but lost interest with Peter Capaldi. Nothing personal about him or Jenna but it was just repetitive. I watched a few Jodie episodes and sat through the Aisling Bea one because I thought it finished with regeneration and it was ok but Daleks again.

It's 20 years now since it came back - the original series ran for 26 years. There's only so much road you can cover and trying to reinvent the wheel by claiming its a black queer wheel is self defeating.

Yeah, I think I prefer the Moffat era as well. The episodes were so nicely structured – you had the beginning, the buildup, the climax, and the resolution. It's like RTD watched the Chibnall episodes and jotted down "too quiet" and then over-corrected, so now everything is at an 11 all the time, hectic and needlessly overlaid with action music.

And is it just me or did the show look more lush under Moffat as well? I don't know if they paid more attention to set design or it's because the camera lingered on the shots more, but Moffat's worlds always looked so tactile and immersive. These two episodes looked pretty flat to me.

The next episode is a Moffat-penned episode. Here's hoping he can salvage a little dignity out of it.

There was a long trailer for this series in the (UK) cinema today. It looked really good on the big screen which was surprising as it looks cheap on tv. The editing was so choppy the longest scene was about 3 seconds.

Jonathan Groff looks ridiculously handsome but the "It's just like Bridgerton" like made me cringe. I'll still watch his episodes though.

[quote] like made me cringe

So it didn’t make you cringe?

but the "It's just like Bridgerton" LINE made me cringe

LINE not LIKE

Everybody here writes like a TV critic. Everything gets dissected and evaluated. Those were the days when people just got comfortable with a snack and a drink and just enjoyed what was coming. And then they moved on. Now each and every episode needs to function as a quality standard for Perfect TV. No wonder that people are more aggravated nowadays when even an hour of Space Babie gets people out of shape.

R253 You don't belong here.

Someone isn't a jaded fag and it shows, r253.

R253 people just expect a certain standard of quality. And this ain’t it.

[quote]Everybody here writes like a TV critic. Everything gets dissected and evaluated. Those were the days when people just got comfortable with a snack and a drink and just enjoyed what was coming. And then they moved on. Now each and every episode needs to function as a quality standard for Perfect TV. No wonder that people are more aggravated nowadays when even an hour of Space Babie gets people out of shape.

There is a particular fandom issue with Doctor Who where many of the fans seem to actively loathe the show.

But this show is now 19 years in to its current run and the quality drop is noticable.

What's especially irritating at the moment is those involved are taunting the viewers telling them that if they don't like the current run they're somehow backwards or not embracing the new progressive regime. No hun, it's just boring.

Forgot to mention another thing I really enjoyed about the premiere – the way the babies' mouths were animated! I love how far CG and AI have come that this is now possible and also doable on a TV budget. Even five years ago, an episode like this either wouldn't be made at all or random mouth movement would be passed off as dialogue, and it would look boring as hell. I noticed the same with the cat in Dead Boy Detectives and it makes me feel excited about all the future possibilities of this technology.

r237 Queerness can still be done organically, rather than being tacked onto the end of an episode, apropos of nothing. Look at the entirety of Interview with the Vampire TV show as an example of that.

R259 Camp, not queer.

No, queerness. Camp is something else entirely. IwtV isn't camp.

What is “queerness”?

It’s an ailment that affects straights trying to hard to be edgy and relevant r262.

Oh dear “too” I’ll get my coat.

The boom episode was great but they should have called it kiss kiss instead.

[quote] Jonathan Groff looks ridiculously handsome but the "It's just like Bridgerton" like made me cringe.

I suppose that refers to both shows imposing a black Queen into the story

Green Screen: The Episode. At the beginning, when Ruby steps out of the Tardis, there's green screened Tardis behind her, which is in turn green screened onto the alien planet. It's like Disney gave them their Volume tech and told them to go nuts. Just foul looking, zero depth to anything.

And I can't believe Moffat wrote this dreck. Why was everything constantly at an 11, like it was an RTD episode? At one point, the hysteria was so overpowering with everyone shouting over each other, I had to mute the whole thing. My god, enough action, give us some quiet dramatic moments already.

Inspirations behind this episode were obvious – Outlander meets Raised by Wolves meets Black Mirror.

This was soooo bad.

I kept thinking if it would have worked as a Tennant/Tate filler episode and no, it was just a boring episode and it looked cheap. The way CGI has come along it must save a huge amount of money on production costs having to avoid a long run of night shoots in a remote quarry.

Next week's episode has Dame Sian Phillips and Aneurin Barnard. I'll watch for them but I don't have any expectations.

I liked it. Not sure what expectations you had, but it worked for me. After the goofy space babies and campy Maestro this was a nice shift to scary. Only few shows can change their tone so dramatically every episode. And I'm loving it.

I'd be willing to bet Moffat didn't write the sappy ending; the tone was completely different and it smacks of Davies schmaltz.

[quote] What's especially irritating at the moment is those involved are taunting the viewers telling them that if they don't like the current run they're somehow backwards or not embracing the new progressive regime. No hun, it's just boring.

Disney had responded to woke Star War's critics with the same sort of arrogance so now Disney is a partner in Doctor Who it's unsurprising they would follow the same dismissive philosophy.

ps -- Disney stock value is down almost 50% from just three years ago

R267 I thought the same regarding the lack of depth except I notified it more when Dr Who flung open the doors when he heard the scream.

Finally finished the Beatles/Maestro episode (blech) and one throwaway line from the stupid first encounter with Maestro when the Doctor (once again) panics and runs away just like he did in the Babies episode, Ruby says basically "Why did you run away, you NEVER run away?" Well, in two of the three adventures she's had with him, he's done exactly that. And also, how the hell does she know what he never does based on two interactions? El Stupido writing.

Well, that was sufficiently creepy. Great episode, if only all of them could be on this level. Gorgeous Welsh vistas.

My first thought when I saw that ghost lady do her thing for the third time was "Why doesn't Ruby go do that to someone like Donald Trump?" And lo and behold, that's exactly what she did. So I loved that. Wish it was explained better at the end what those gestures meant, though.

This felt like a return to form for RTD. It was good enough to have been a Tennant episode, minus the Tennant obviously. Ageing make up aside.

A political message with the subtlety of a wet fart the Albion Party posters looked very much like GB News. And having a Welsh man spouting anti English grievances as some kind of British nationalist will upset the aps.

A very nice ghost short story. It's not so promising that the best episode so far is the one without the Doctor in it.

Only watch it after seven days have passed from broadcast date

This thread has died, just as Doctor Who has.

New episode WITHOUT the gay Doctor has best overnight ratings of the season. 2.62 million viewers. Still far below prior seasons.

The Woke Doctor Who sees a big rebound in ratings thanks to Episode 4, “73 Yards,” which focuses on companion Ruby Sunday, played by Mille Gibson, who is actually said to be leaving the series.

It's a wonky start for sure, but nowhere near the disaster of the Chibnall era. Lots of room for correction still.

R279 She is not leaving, will be two companions. And the new one appeared in the Boom episode.. It's all in the twist.

That was a decent episode, if a bit too Black Mirror-ish with its central premise. That twist at the end though, wow. Not gonna have many fans here on DL, I presume. However, it would have landed even harder without the fake tears, which were flowing almost cartoonishly in that last shot.

That pee doctor was weird.

Is it just me or was Ricky September not that hot at all? His acting debut was opposite Minnie Driver in Hunky Dory, how quaint is that? Did some theatre with Ben Whishaw as well, a decade ago.

That felt like a Catherine Tate filler episode updated from the late 00s. Good enough.

Tom Rhys Harries is a curious looking man. When he was younger he was so skinny and twinky and very pretty and almost androgynous. He now looks like a 30 year old twink who has filled out. He's a fairly posh middle class actor who was over hyped based on his looks but has worked consistently without being especially famous.

He was good enough in Hunky Dory but was overshadowed by last week's Doctor Who guest Aneurin Barnard who had already won an Olivier when he appeared in the movie. But the teenager actor from Hunky Dory who went on to have the most prestigious career was George MacKay.

TRH should be attractive in theory, largely thanks to his insane facial contours, but his skin doesn't fully hold up in closeups. At least I think that's what's throwing me off. Freddie Fox looks kinda similar to him, and his skin has very much held up over the years.

He looks like the lesbian aristo non binary they/them Mae Martin.

Fun episode. Doctor's sexy dancing to Kylie is perfect for Pride time, but I don't know how well it'll go down with the genpop.

It was interesting seeing how much simpler the costumes were compared to Bridgerton, but of course it's expensive to have period costumes just for one episode. And the costumes and the jewellery in Bridgerton are comically overdone anyway.

First gay kiss in Doctor Who? Groff's character didn't have that much personality, he was kinda just a blank slate. Performance seemed phoned in, Groff's usually more expressive with his face. He should've played him more rugged, I think.

[quote]First gay kiss in Doctor Who?

No, Jack kissed Nine (and Rose, but still).

Weak sauce Captain Jack.

r287 Oh yeah, I forgot about that. It was so exciting when it happened, but it was also completely unromantic, so the context was different.

The show continues to tank.

I genuinely don't understand why, it's so much better than the Chibnall era already. Not anything outstanding, mind you, but it's decent Doctor Who entertainment.

The issue with Dr Who is that it was always a rather silly and fantastical show for children. It was never intended to be a cornerstone of primetime mainstream culture. Like the centrality of superhero films in Hollywood, it's a sign of the continued infantilisation of popular culture. Dr Who is not serious, nor should it ever need to be: but it can't both didactic entertainment and nuanced, sophisticated drama. It has to be one or the other, and this is something that Russel T Davies has never been able to reconcile.

No wonder the series seems to be having a perpetual identity crisis.

Telling the fans to go fuck themselves and touch grass may have consequences.

Except BBC and Disney are the two "entertainment" corporations in the world least interested in listening to or pleasing their customers.

Having a 13 year old child as the new scientific advisor for UNIT was beyond stupid. My eyes rolled so hard.

This show is truly over. Either they get a new showrunner or it’s not going to be around for much longer. They’ll always have the originals for people to fangurl over. This new shit is beyond bad and now that Disney had it, it’s only going to get worse. Brits are not hear for American interference in a British tv show.

After three pretty decent episodes, we get this overwrought mess? The final couple of minutes were laughable, like a parody of Doctor Who. The masks and the CG looked so naff.

Nothing specific was ever mentioned about that software Sue was about to release to the world for free. And a tech genius at 70? Sure, that tracks. RTD's boomerism was on full display here, and painfully so. It's like the editing of the show is snappy enough (even too snappy at times), but everything else about it is dated. I think RTD is just spent, creatively.

At least we got to see the cute Colonel Ibrahim again, voguing with his insane cheekbones all over the place. And his hair isn't slathered in gel anymore, so that's nice. Though I wish he smiled more, just look at his bright homosexual smile at r123.

[quote] Having a 13 year old child as the new scientific advisor for UNIT was beyond stupid.

Sounds reasonable to me.

A [italic]disabled[/italic] 13-year-old child. Wesley has got nothing on him.

[quote]Having a 13 year old child as the new scientific advisor for UNIT was beyond stupid. My eyes rolled so hard.

Adric says "hey."

The kid's delivery was actually pretty good, this sort of casting can sometimes go horribly wrong.

Lenny Rush, 15, is a BAFTA winning actor with a load of screen credits. He's ideal casting for this kind of show.

Seeing "Rose" towering over the Doctor and Ruby with her affected mannerisms was far more distracting, but at least the lighting was flattering to her masculine features.

And what a shocker Anita Dobson turned into an evil bitch. You don't cast someone of her stature in a throwaway role.

Russell T Davies has broken his silence on the series' declining ratings, explaining that the goal was always for the long-running sci-fi drama to attract a much younger audience.

"In coming back, I wanted to make it simpler and I wanted to make it younger," he explained. "Those two things are often not discussed - you read reactions to it and people are missing that. It’s simpler and younger - and it is working."

"The under-16s and the 16-34 audience as well is massive. It’s not doing that well in the ratings, but it is doing phenomenally well with the younger audience that we wanted."

[quote] it is doing phenomenally well with the younger audience that we wanted."

ie -- Grooming children is the goal

The Sarah Jane Adventure's it's not.

r303 You can fuck right off with that homophobic language about a gay showrunner on a gay message board. That sort of rhetoric was used for decades to deny us our rights, you ought to be embarrassed. I sure am embarrassed that your mother shat out someone like you.

Targeting a younger audience is nothing new in showbiz because those people are the fucking future. You don't want to be like cable news where the median age is 70, that's a moribund medium. Do I think RTD is coping by cherry-picking his stats? Yes. But he's not wrong in prioritising younger audiences.

What I don't understand with the "BUT THE KIDS LOVE IT" argument is why RTD would reposition Doctor Who as a kids show with constant references to things that happened in the show 45 years ago or whenever.

Sure it appeals to the hardcore fans but "the kids" are just going to ask why was a black smoke dog puppet on the top of the TARDIS?

Other than that this series has been enjoyable enough. 45 minutes a week doesn't feel like a waste of time.

CInemas in the UK are hosting screenings on Friday night for the finale. They'll show yesterday's episode at 11ish and then the new episode "live" at midnight when it drops online.

[quote] And a tech genius at 70? Sure, that tracks.

Not tracking for r296, but this lady here came to my mind. Not a household name. But those who know health care IT certainly know Epic. Wouldn't be surprised if Faulkner was the real life model for Susan Triad.

Ugh that was a bad finale

It's a shitshow.

Everything since the end of Capaldi needs to be amputated and discarded. If RTD or anyone else wants a show for kids, let them make a different show for kids. Chibnall needs to be slapped vigorously by every fan who encounters him.

I'm not sure those 8 hours of tv have been a huge success. I'm sure the old queens loved the Tom Baker and Susan clips and references to old episodes but RTD's assertion they're doing it for the kids doesn't convince me.

Ncuti Gatwa has been ok although his DRAMATIC SCENES are so over the top and not in a good way. Millie Gibson however has been excellent. It is hard to believe she only turned 20 this week. She's much better than the show and will go on to great things.

And I can suspend my believe to think this evil dog thing can turn the entire population into dust but the idea that no one in Ruby's mother or father's family would spit into a tube for Ancestry.com (hi Davina!) is just too ridiculous.

It's also ridiculous that hetero Doctor Who is now a huge homo.

New theory for season 2 is that the evil welsh prime minster is Ruby’s brother. Ruby mentioned they found out her dad’s name is William. The future PM’s name is Roger ap Gwilliam -aka son of William. Could be a coincidence I suppose.

Yeah, this wasn't very good. And I think I've finally figured out why – it's mostly the lazy execution. There is zero directorial panache to anything on the screen. Moffat could turn that mediocre writing into a spectacular finale with proper camerawork and clever editing. But everything here is flat and rushed and uninspired. The Doctor occasionally shouts out a monologue and even those don't land.

God damn it, I wanted this to succeed so much. But if the first season with RTD full of fresh energy was this mid, I imagine it's only going to get worse going forward. Sigh.

That was a wholly unsatisfying season, and a particularly weak finale. Wow, I can't really believe it was so terrible even though I just watched it.

The show is a political soapbox now.

Nah, it's not even sharp enough for that, R316.

It’s on the nose. Showrunner already said he has an agenda pushing this woke shit.

If nothing else, I'm really pleased seeing Mel get the Sarah Jane treatment.

I wish the Daleks would exterminate Donna's talentless tranny son (talk about nepo baby).

I don't mind her, but she was fucking terrible in the finale. Voguing on her iPad when Sutekh was about to turn everyone into dust? Terrible direction.

Also, they gave her the most unflattering outfit ever. Her abs were jutting out further than her tits, ffs.

Like her aunts and cousins Jemma Redgrave is a statuesque lady.

It’s very unfortunate that Tranny Rose has the posture of a gangly teenage boy.

Looking at r321, did RTD actually cast that blonde kid from the Shriners begging commercials?

No, different kid with a different disability. He was pretty decent, though.

The main thing about that screenshot is that there are no white men in it (Alexander Devrient is German-Lebanese). I can almost see RTD smugly popping a boner when they were shooting that scene and again during editing and once more when he was watching it at home as it aired. I wish he channelled his passion for inclusion into better writing instead.

Analysis by Deadline. Dark clouds on the horizon...

[quote]Those lucky enough to attend May’s Disney‘s upfronts at the North Javits Center were treated to clips, teases and appearances from some of the world’s biggest stars. But almost completely absent from the upfront festivities was Doctor Who, the iconic British sci-fi series that Disney+ now co-produces with the BBC following what was undoubtedly one of the biggest global TV show deals of the past decade. Doctor Who was handed a minor bit of real estate at the North Javits, but its lack of front-and-center placement may spin a yarn about the series’ position in the Disney priority log nearly three years on from the deal being struck.

[quote]Noises that it may not last beyond its initial two seasons are already reverberating around international TV circles, and one source close to the production tells us that they feel its future hangs in the balance already.