Jann Wenner Removed From Rock Hall Board After Times Interview

Yet another argument for mandatory retirement at 70. These fucking boomers need to shut up, play golf and watch NCIS reruns.

A lot of us have retired but don't play golf nor watch NCIS. You can't lump us all together.

Paywall. OP, can you summarize?

[quote]Asked why he didn’t interview women or Black musicians, Wenner responded: “It’s not that they’re inarticulate, although, go have a deep conversation with Grace Slick or Janis Joplin. Please, be my guest. You know, Joni (Mitchell) was not a philosopher of rock ’n’ roll. She didn’t, in my mind, meet that test,” he told the Times.

[quote]“Of Black artists — you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level,” Wenner said.

I'm not OP but here you go R3:

It’s a shame he didn’t bother to interview Chuck Berry, Little Richard or Fats Domino, since the were so long lived and performed predating white fascination with the genre. There were rockin’ black chicks from the golden era as well. Isn’t Wenner gay? That may explain his total resentment toward women.

If he really did say these things, I am in shock. Unbelievable.

It's funny that during an interview in which he said women and Black artists didn't articulate whatever, he rambles on and on like an airheaded burnout.

Who's inarticulate now, motherfucker?

Finally! That's only two decades too late. That motherfucker shut out dozens of deserving artists from the Hall of Fame simply because of personal vendettas. The riddance is most welcome.

This prick has been coddled as Important for far too long - he's been part of the problem and he will assuredly not be missed

Old gay white guy says stupid shit even offending the old gay and white. His distaste for snatch and obsequiousness for white rock peen are actually on brand.

The rent boys will spill when he drops.

you'd think the people surrounding him would clue him in before he puts out another of collection of 50 year old interviews....

Does everything have to include everybody?

No, but American rock music has to include BLACK people.

For anyone that's been paying attention I feel like it's always been known that he really didn't care for women or blacks in music so I guess it's nice that everybody cares now but this isn't shocking at all.

Can he take Sheryl Crow off the list of inductees when he goes?

The Hall of Fame was his baby and his fiefdom. It must be killing him to know he can't control it anymore. Good riddance.

He dissed Marvin?

FUCK HIM.

Marvin is king.

[quote]You know, just for public relations sake, maybe I should have gone and found one Black and one woman artist to include here that didn’t measure up to that same historical standard, just to avert this kind of criticism.

Sure, Jann.

To believe it? FINE. To actually admit it during an interview while promoting a book on the roots of Rock and Roll music is STAGGERINGLY stupid.

Remember when influential, mega-rich, racist pieces of shit would say dumb shit like this at parties? And then a colleague would sell them out?

I miss those days.

[quote] Does everything have to include everybody?

No. Trump rallies don't have to include Black people but someone pays them to stand behind him in camera view. It isn't an issue of inclusion it is the lame-brained excuse he offered for purposeful exclusion. He should call the book "The White Masters" and see if Bono, Springsteen and Jagger are still eager to be included.

I never liked him anyway. He truly did play himself in that Travolta movie PERFECT. It’s disappointing because RS has had some great articles about racism and sexism in music and the contributions of blacks and women in music and film. Written by others but he approved them.

He always looks like shit. Does he ever bathe or shave?

Wow. He just killed the entire brand

What language does he speak? Sounds like gobbley gook.

No one reads that stupid magazine anymore.

They quote it tho. Seriously. How are you going to minimize the accomplishments. Black people invented every kind of modern music. Because they made it look easy? And women? Just because? What a dumbass

I don’t see the problem.

Strange that he would have this position since he founded a magazine named after an album by Muddy Waters.

Of course, it may also have been that he wanted to blow Bob Dylan and named it after his song.

Didn't he leave his wife for a male model one day?

Yes r29. They are still together too.

Oh so he hates women because they can't make him straight and he hates black people because he'll never have their bodies and swag

I knew from the book title that he didn’t include women and Black people, otherwise he would have named it “The Masters, Slaves, and Concubines.”

I really want The Monkees to be inducted next year as a fuck you to Jann.

Also Daydream Believer is a fucking tune.

[quote] To believe it? FINE.

I don't think it was fine. He dismissed women and black people b/c he thought they were inarticulate. Yet, there's no denying that the music of women and black people have moved people, emotionally and viscerally. I.e., the music was articulating something. There are different ways of communicating.

An intelligent person would have expanded his / her definition of what it meant to be articulate.

[quote]Finally! That's only two decades too late. That motherfucker shut out dozens of deserving artists from the Hall of Fame simply because of personal vendettas. The riddance is most welcome.

Who has he deliberately snubbed?

I have no issue with not interviewing women about rock (rock is generally a man's genre and has few women in it) and I am no "blacks invented everything and you wouldn't exist without them" modern type progressive, but I've said this before and I'll say it again:

The ONLY good original American music has black origins. To not interview black artists about rock is to take credit for something blacks created. White americans can take credit for fucking country and western and call it a day.

1964. Sister Rosetta Tharpe - black woman - singing & rocking out on the guitar.

What's with these sites like the one posted at r30? They all sound written by Chinese AI

Dementia?

Neurosyphilis

Women who make it in a "men's" genre face a lot of adversity and are generally pretty tough, intelligent, and interesting people. And there was a huge explosion of women in rock in the 90s but who cares about any of them, right?

He also essentially blackballed several well deserved rock acts from being inducted into the RRHOF for his own arbitrary reasons, even though other acts who had the same disqualifiers got in anyway.

White male privilege run amok…

To complain about people being "articulate" and include an interview with a burned-out, addled old drug hippie like Jerry Garcia instead of the likes of Tina Turner?

R44 Wenner is a sexist, racist prick to be sure, but Jerry Garcia was a thoughtful, intelligent man, at least in his 1972 interview for RS. Unfortunately, his drug use escalated after that, but mine would too after having to sit down with Wenner for a day.

I mean he is not wrong about Ariana Grande.

Bingo, R3. He reminds me of the disgusting old hippy who created the original Woodstock and when Woodstock 2001 (or whatever the hell year it was) went to shit, interviewers asked him if he felt responsible or guilty for the violence and he got annoyed, eyerolled and said no of course not and what was he supposed to do about it.

Jann Wenner is a turd, and his magazine was cool partially due to the talent of Annie Liebowitz. A woman and certainly a master.

He could have sidestepped this whole controversy if he’d simply replied with “These were my favorite artists that I interviewed” or something like that. But Wenner is so preoccupied with wanting to be The Arbiter of Rock that he was revealed to be the shallow pseudo intellectual that he’s always been.

He could have also shut down the interviewer with something factual like “We at Rolling Stone were hailing Marvin Gaye’s ‘What’s Going On’ as a masterpiece at exactly the same time that we were shitting on every Led Zeppelin album.” In the end, Wenner got what he deserved for running his yap.

R34 Nope. Don't even try it. Put your soap box back under your bed. NOTHING in my post validated his stupid opinion.

The way he diminished Joni Mitchell is abominable. He should never open his mouth again.

I read the headline on the NY Times interview; looks like the interviewer gave Wenner several feet of rope to hang himself with. And the headline lets you know that.

[quote] He could have sidestepped this whole controversy if he’d simply replied with “These were my favorite artists that I interviewed” or something like that. But Wenner is so preoccupied with wanting to be The Arbiter of Rock that he was revealed to be the shallow pseudo intellectual that he’s always been.

Completely agree. It is was arrogance in attempting to characterize his personal opinions as objective truths that showed him to be a true asshole. If you never interviewed Prince or Marvin Gaye about music shut the f*ck up. If you don't believe Stevie Wonder and Joni Mitchell are "masters" shut the f*ck up. Just say "these are MY favorites" and let that be the end.

I listened to his two statements and he said nothing wrong. He used the word "articulated" when speaking of black rock-and-rollers, etc., but it was clear he was speaking in terms of their interpretation of certain music and not a dig at any intelligence, speech etc.

It's fucked up when places like the New York Times has even become so shit-stirring and woke, that a white man can't even give an interview without fear of someone trying to ruin his career based on an answer he gave to a question he was asked which had no tinge of insult or harm whatsoever.

Another win for women and black American people. They won't stop until it all burns down around them.

I'm 70 and yes, I am proud of the fact that I've gotten to the point I don't give a damn whether people like or dislike what I say. But unlike this mook Jann Wenner I've still got brains enough to know not to say something that is offensive to any group of people who've done nothing to deserve it.

I suspect this guy is either so arrogant and out of it he thinks anything that comes out of his mouth should be accepted with gratitude, or he's cognitively impaired has lost whatever personal filter he once had.

Go back to sucking Jann's shriveled old dick and eating out his shit encrusted asshole, R53.

R48, then any good reporter worth their salt would ask him to elaborate…and we’d be right back here…

R53, please, you’re not making any sense…what’s burning down around blacks and women? You singled out Black Americans…is there a reason why? You seem very tone deaf.

R53 is an idiot and a racist who to the greatest extent of his limited ability is attempting to mischaracterize the obvious meaning of Wenner's words. F&F her.

Wouldn’t be surprised if R53 spends most of his time screaming about trans, blacks, and woke in numerous Datalounge threads.

What's funny is he was on the Joe Rogan podcast last year and he came off as the most wokest MAGA hating liberal you could imagine. Just goes to show you.

Rolling Stone magazine is a lowbrow rag, of course he doesn't know anything about music or its history.

Wenner is such an odd duck. He's an old closet queen who still has a really toxic old-school idea of what rock and roll should be.

His white male sense of superiority grows out of Hippiedom, always racist and sexist, despite the tie-dye.

R62 he’d be perfect for Datalounge.

He's a rich Boomer white male, born rich actually, and prep-school educated. His wealthy parents (or his wife's, either way) gave him the money to start up RS, so he's hardly a self-starter. Arrogant, that whole lot, and totally up their own asses. He's always been obsessed with promoting and palling around with white Boomer rockers, like Henley, Billy Joel, Jagger and Sting. None of this shocks, in fact I've wonder how it took so long to out him on his views.

He sounds like a lot of our posters here: another wealthy gay white male Boomer with too much privilege, zero self-reflection for 6-8 decades, and absolutely no relevance in 2023.

I see our hissing CLACK! fan queen is back.

[quote]Arrogant, that whole lot, and totally up their own asses. He's always been obsessed with promoting and palling around with white Boomer rockers, like Henley, Billy Joel, Jagger and Sting.

And Bono. Always, always Bono, perhaps the most insufferable one of all.

[quote]I see our hissing CLACK! fan queen is back.

What the fuck does this refer to?

R57 WHY are you even responding to R53?

John Waters gets onto the Hollywood Walk of Fame

and Jann Wenner gets kicked out of the other....

John Waters could make a pretty good trashy spoof about jann wenner.....

Wenner has always epitomized the fucking know-it-all, narcissistic, egocentric Boomer who thinks he's God's Gift to the world. And who keeps hanging on and hanging on long past becoming irrelevant.

....

[quote]His wealthy parents (or his wife's, either way) gave him the money to start up RS, so he's hardly a self-starter.

You say that like it took a vast fortune to start the magazine. They gave him $7500 or the equivalent of $65K today. That hardly requires excessively wealthy parents to get that kind of money.

Well r74 my parents would be considered middle class and they sure as hell don't have $65k laying around to dole out to one of their kids to start up a music magazine.

I think most people would find that a large amount of money, to hand out to a young 20-something with little to no life or work experience, to start up a pop culture journal or magazine. It's rich peoples' play money.

R74, $65,000 is a huge amount of money for someone who isn't wealthy. My parents never gave me even a fraction of that amount. I would never ask for even 10% of that from them, unless I was dying or in some big trouble. I don't know anyone else I would get that kind of money from. I doubt I could secure a loan in that amount and I have excellent credit.

What a dumb statement

The Biggest Rock Hall Snubs

There are many great artists who have been overlooked by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The vast majority of these artists have never been nominated for induction. Each year, the final ballot of performers is selected by the Rock Hall Nominating Committee, then sent to the larger Voting Committee for election.

Artist Years Snubbed # of Years Nominated

A Tribe Called Quest 9 2 Afrika Bambaataa 18 1 Alice In Chains 8 0 Aphex Twin 7 0 The B-52's 20 0 Bad Brains 16 1 Bad Company 24 0 Barry White 35 0 Bauhaus 19 0 Beck 5 1 Belle & Sebastian 2 0 Big Star 26 0 Billy Idol 17 0 Björk 21 0 Black Flag 20 0 Blue Öyster Cult 26 0 Blur 8 0 Brian Eno 24 0 The Buzzcocks 21 0 Can 30 0 Captain Beefheart 32 0 The Carpenters 29 0 The Chemical Brothers 3 0 Cher 33 0 Chic 21 11 Coldplay 1 0 The Commodores 24 0 Connie Francis 40 0 Cyndi Lauper 15 1 Daft Punk 4 0 The Damned 22 0 Dave Matthews Band 5 1 De La Soul 10 0 The Dead Kennedys 19 0 Devo 21 3 Diana Ross 28 0 Dick Dale 36 0 Echo and the Bunnymen 19 0 Emerson, Lake & Palmer 28 0 Eric B. & Rakim 12 1 Faith No More 13 0 The Flaming Lips 14 0 Fugazi 10 0 Gloria Estefan 11 0 Gram Parsons 31 3 The Guess Who 33 0 Harry Nilsson 31 0 Hüsker Dü 17 0 INXS 18 0 Iron Maiden 19 2 The Jam 21 0 Jan & Dean 38 0 Jane's Addiction 11 1 The Jesus and Mary Chain 14 0 Jethro Tull 30 0 Jim Croce 32 0 Johnny Burnette and the Rock N Roll Trio 42 0 Joy Division/New Order 20 1 King Crimson 29 0 Kool & the Gang 29 0 Love 32 0 Mariah Carey 8 0 The Marvelettes 37 2 Mary J. Blige 6 1 Mary Wells 37 1 Massive Attack 10 0 MC5 32 6 Megadeth 13 0 The Monkees 32 0 Mötley Crüe 17 0 Motörhead 21 1 My Bloody Valentine 13 0 Nas 6 0 Neu! 26 0 New Order 17 0 New York Dolls 25 3 Nick Cave 14 0 Nick Drake 29 0 Oasis 4 0 The Offspring 10 0 Outkast 5 0 Ozzy Osbourne 18 0 Pantera 15 0 Pavement 9 0 Pet Shop Boys 14 0 Peter, Paul & Mary 36 0 Pixies 11 0 PJ Harvey 7 0 The Pointer Sisters 25 0 Procol Harum 31 1 Queen Latifah 9 0 Queens of the Stone Age 1 0 The Replacements 17 1 Rufus with Chaka Khan 25 4 The Runaways 22 0 Sade 14 0 Scott Walker 32 0 Silver Apples 30 0 Siouxsie & the Banshees 20 0 Slayer 15 0 Sleater-Kinney 4 0 Smashing Pumpkins 8 0 The Smiths 15 2 Sonic Youth 16 0 The Sonics 33 0 Soundgarden 12 2 Sparks 27 0 The Specials 19 0 Steppenwolf 30 1 Stone Roses 13 0 Stone Temple Pilots 6 0 Suicide 21 0 System of a Down 1 0 Television 23 0 Thin Lizzy 28 1 Three Dog Night 29 0 TLC 6 0 Tommy James & the Shondells 32 0 Tool 6 0 Toots & the Maytals 36 0 Tori Amos 7 0 War 27 3 Warren Zevon 29 1 Weezer 4 0 "Weird Al" Yankovic 19 0 The White Stripes 1 1 Wilco 4 0 Wu-Tang Clan 6 0 X 20 0 XTC 21 0

Diana Ross was one of the first-ever inductees with The Supremes.

Many of the UK bands listed were very influential in their home country, but had little to no commercial impact in the US (although some were critically lauded): Oasis, Stone Roses, The Jam, XTC, The Specials, Nick Drake, Joy Division, Jesus & Mary Chain). The HoF is very biased towards American acts, or those foreign acts that made it big in the US.

Some of the American "alternative" acts were influential, but lacked the commercial sales success that seems to be a pre-req: Sleater-Kinney, Sonic Youth, Dead Kennedys, Black Flag.

I love them personally, but do they really belong in the "Rock" HoF? Sade, Jim Croce, Gloria Estefan.

He's entitled to his opinion. Even an absurd one.

The more I read about this asshole, the more I hate him. What a prick.

He inducted the E Street band solo before Tina Turner solo.

Let that sink in.

And where the fuck is Phil Collins?

[quote] I love them personally, but do they really belong in the "Rock" HoF? Sade, Jim Croce.

Yeah, I do.

It’s been clear for many years now that if the mainstream rock genre remained the main arbiter for Hall Of Fame inclusion, the inducted modern acts would be stadium relics like Nickelback and Smash Mouth (and to be fair to these much maligned acts, they did release some very popular earwigs and apparently tour nonstop).

Appearances matter. Not just hat tips to diversity (necessary diversity, due to the black and folk roots of rock and roll) but because rock was supposed to be the sound of rebellion and freedom and cool to Wenner’s generation. And contemporary rock isn’t that. To wit, Eminem is inducted, Coldplay is not.

With the more recent inclusion of purely pop acts like Madonna and hip-hop performers like LL Cool and pure country singers (who write hits with massive pop hooks) like Dolly Parton, I’d hazard a guess that pre-requisites are popular acts with a strong song-writing or live performance foundation and a sound that descends from the blues-based origins of the genre. Which encompasses pop, hip-hop, country, folk, R&B, Latin music - everything except a broad though not entire proportion of EDM.

I wish that someone could take his walking stick and thrash him with it.

R42 "He also essentially blackballed several well deserved rock acts from being inducted into the RRHOF for his own arbitrary reasons, even though other acts who had the same disqualifiers got in anyway. "

That is my primary point of contention with Jann Wenner. He is a hypocrite because of the excuses he has been giving over the years why obvious acts that made good music and had a big impact in rock are blackballed by him. Fuckin' Janet Jackson is in it for fuck's sake!

By the way I was at the Boby Dylan show at the Beacon Theater in NYC last night and Dylan who almost never says anything, said that Jann Wenner was in the house, and had the nerve to say :

“All right, like to say hello to Jann Wenner who’s in the house,” Dylan said. “Jann Wenner, surely everybody’s heard of him. Anyway, he just got booted out of the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame – and we don’t think that’s right, we’re trying to get him back in.”

Um, no we don't. Good riddance, he has long passed his sell by date, not because of his age, but because of his clique politics and diminished mental capacity. I love Bob Dylan, but he is unable to be objective because he's known Wenner for over 40 years.

thanks for sharing that about Dylan R85

unfortunate he feels the need to do a damn thing for Jann Wenner

Thanks again R85 / there is a youtube link of the audio of last night's show at the Beacon

I'm curious, was his use of lyric sheets obvious to you? or distracting?

he sings a lot of very wordy new songs i'm not familiar with... thanks

i'm referencing this from a reddit thread......

. "At the beginning of this tour back in 2021 he wasn't using lyric sheets but after several shows of flubbing a few rough and rowdy ways lyrics he started using them and has been ever since."

A homo NON-ally

I think he used the sheets more as a reference for piano playing rather than remembering the words. I knew he played piano, but never saw him do it on stage before. He was decent, not great, but his playing worked with his band and current music styling, which is more moody and croony, in keeping with the feeling of his latest album, Rough and Rowdy Ways. He's actually 82 now, so standing playing a guitar for 2 hours probably would have been a challenge. But he did play the piano standing up for about 4 songs or so.

A truly bizarre interview. He seems to just write off more than half the human species.

R85 How did the band sound?

The latest - and final - I saw Dylan was about 15 years ago and I swear they did not do a sound check. It was a cacophonous din. I actually moved around the arena floor to see if we were in a blind spot but no, it sounded like shit all over. And the “Bob doesn’t like to play the way he does on the record, he makes each performance an experience” excuse couldn’t be used, I’ve seen him multiple times at the venue and it didn’t sound that terrible. Maybe the sound engineer had taken a nap.

I give the band sound a strong 8.5 out of 10.

His comment about Joplin is curious to me. I saw a pretty extended interview that Dick Cavett did with her on his show in the early 70s, and I remember being struck by how extremely smart and insightful she was.

R93 again here. The linked article references Joplin's I.Q. as in the 165 range. She dropped out of college because of relentless bullying about her looks.

Fuck Jann Wenner.

Janis Joplin was a very intelligent woman. She went through horrible times in her life because of how awful people were to her about her looks.

Why do people like Dylan? I don’t get the hype…

What was wrong with Janice Joplin’s looks? She was a bit plain but that doesn’t seem to warrant intense bullying.

Janis attended her high school reunion (10-year, I guess) in Texas, I think. She thought people would be nicer to her, now that she was famous. Nope, still mean. She was devastated. Not sure why she wanted to go to the reunion.

One man's opinion.

Why don’t you google him R96?

They were jealous of Janis.

Wenner had a years long feud with Led Zeppelin but it didn't hurt them one bit.

For whatever reason Rolling Stone magazine was never a consistent arbiter of music critique. Over the years they gave more than a handful of horrific reviews for great albums that became true classics. How much of that is Jann's role as editor is not clear, but he did harbor animosity to many acts, and that was obvious in their article as well as the album reviews. Wenner had more influence on who got in and who didn't get in to the RRHOF than anybody else.

That he considers Bono one of the Great Philosophers of Rock is just the latest example revealing Jann Wenner as the charlatan he is.

Bono’s reputation lies in the fact that he is a great socialiser and can charm the birds from the trees. In fairness, he is a fine frontman. But there’s no “there” there.

He looks like he was just kicked in the nuts, and is now protecting himself

He looks like he is in handcuffs in OP's photo.

r85 - they're both from the generation of men who despite expressing their own freedom and rebellion had very grim attitudes about women and their place and value. So many were like that Neil Young, George Harrison, Eric Clapton, Ike Turner, and on and on. A lot of homophobia, too.

That he didn’t think that there was anything wrong with what he said…speaks volumes about his ignorance and sense of entitlement. He believes that he is a gatekeeper of rock music. So, in his mind his words were justified. I wonder if he has any regrets now. Sure, he’s wealthy and all that. But will he be able, to be allowed to make any further contributions to the world of music and pop culture?

What possible contributions can a man pushing 80 possibly make? He really doesn't have talent or awareness, apparently. He's a businessman/magazine publisher first who was lucky to parlay his superfanboy obsession into money. Maybe he can write historical biographies about rock. Something solitary. Or team with Mick to finally coax a bio out of him. Now there's a book that would deserve 950+ pages.

Like in Almost Famous when PSH tells the main kid that they are fans, they are the uncool. Wenner assumes genius by his close association/friendship/fandom of Bob Dylan. Thats why he crowns himself emperor and publishes “The Masters” rather than “My Rock And Roll Philosophy: An Exploration With Rock’s Statesmen”.

Wenner’s taste, or lack thereof, is why rock and roll has been on a steady downhill slide since the 1990s. His myopia is why rock music is racialised as a “white” genre, and why the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame is scrambling to induct hip hop acts.

Remember when he gave the members of NSYNC individual Rolling Stone covers?

There was a long time period when Rolling Stone had very few female writers. It had perhaps no female editors during that time. For all I know that never changed; I just stopped looking at the magazine. If I remember correctly, the content could be cranky. In the eighties or nineties I went to hear the then Editor speak. He had a Prince Valiant haircut and wasn't a genius.

Wenner's assertions that White male rock musicians are more articulate than female or Black rock musicians is ridiculous. It exposed the whole grift.

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inducting huge mainstream NON-ROCK musicians like Dolly Parton is ridiculous and disturbing.

More questionable HOF inductees: Dione Warwick, Cher, Harry Belafonte

[quote]The ONLY good original American music has black origins.

Sondheim was black?

Cher has legitimacy, I think, as a rock vocalist.

R115. She also was a studio vocalist back in the day. Probably sang background in a lot of rock songs. The Wrecking Crew is a terrific documentary about studio musicians; that’s where I learned she had done that before she became famous with Sonny.

Black artists? Of course they're not masters. To speak with Sheldon Cooper: They're slaves.

The Rolling Stone has always been racist. Sexist was new to me.

R113 Tell me you're MAGA without telling me you're MAGA.