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Husband, 93 shoots and kills wife, 94, who was suffering from dementia; shoots and kills himself

This incident did not occur in Florida. Tragic story nevertheless apparently the husband was his wife's caregiver.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 96September 16, 2023 4:14 AM

The Montgomery County District Attorney’s Office has released additional details from their investigation into a murder-suicide that occurred near Knapp Elementary in Lansdale Tuesday afternoon.

Police were initially dispatched to the 800 block of Concord Place at 12:11 p.m. on Sept. 12 for a report of a shooting. Investigators said a man, later identified as 93-year-old Stanley Brown, called county dispatch stating that he had shot a woman and intended to shoot himself. With Brown on the phone, dispatchers reported hearing a gunshot, according to the district attorney’s office.

As police were arriving at the scene, another shot was heard from inside of the house, investigators said. Police then made entry into the home and found Brown seated in a chair with a handgun and gunshot wounds to his chest.

Brown was airlifted to Jefferson Hospital in Philadelphia, where he underwent surgery. He died at 11:11 p.m., police said.

The woman, identified as Brown’s wife — 94-year-old Florence Brown — was located in the home unresponsive suffering from multiple gunshot wounds. She was transported via ambulance to Grand View Hospital, where she was pronounced dead at 1:13 p.m., officials said.

A joint investigation by the Lansdale Borough Police Department and the Montgomery County Detective Bureau was subsequently launched, with the initial results indicating Florence Brown suffered from dementia and Stanley Brown was her primary caregiver, police said.

Following the report of the shooting, North Penn School District officials sent an email to families stating that all students at the nearby Knapp Elementary were safe. The statement read:

Attention Knapp Families,

North Penn School District security personnel heard of police activity at a residence near Knapp Elementary School on county radio communications at approximately 12:20 p.m. As a precautionary measure, students were sent inside from recess and a lockout was put in place until we had further information.

Once the situation was deemed safe by police, the lockout was ended. The lockout was in place for approximately 10 minutes and the school day resumed as normal.

Thank you for your attention to this important matter.

Autopsies on the bodies will be conducted by the Bucks County Coroner’s Office and the Philadelphia Medical Examiner’s Office, officials said.

by Anonymousreply 1September 14, 2023 3:35 PM

Probably an act of love.

by Anonymousreply 2September 14, 2023 3:37 PM

He was a 93 year old primary caregiver of a 94 year old woman?

You can't blame people in this situation.

by Anonymousreply 3September 14, 2023 3:37 PM

^with dementia no less.

by Anonymousreply 4September 14, 2023 3:40 PM

This is why the right to die should be legal in every state

by Anonymousreply 5September 14, 2023 3:42 PM

What R5 said.

by Anonymousreply 6September 14, 2023 3:44 PM

i agree

by Anonymousreply 7September 14, 2023 3:46 PM

R5 absolutely

by Anonymousreply 8September 14, 2023 3:47 PM

[QUOTE]and then shoots and kills himself

Straight men. Anything to avoid cooking dinner.

by Anonymousreply 9September 14, 2023 3:50 PM

It's sad for us, looking in, but a compassionate blessing for them. They obviously had complete lives to have made it to their 90s together and I can't imagine having any desire to go on under that sort of distress after all of that -- seeing the person you love be that gone? Terrible. We need to make it easier for people to make these decisions so they don't have to blow their heads off.

by Anonymousreply 10September 14, 2023 3:50 PM

I don't know R10 making it to age 93 and then getting shot to death doesn't sound like a peaceful way to go. Just saying.

by Anonymousreply 11September 14, 2023 3:54 PM

The whole situation sounds unfortunate.

by Anonymousreply 12September 14, 2023 3:55 PM

Very sad.

Let people die with dignity and agency, ffs.

by Anonymousreply 13September 14, 2023 3:57 PM

So sad.

by Anonymousreply 14September 14, 2023 3:58 PM

Whenever I've watched documentaries or news items about places where assisted suicide is legal it seems creepy to me not dignified. Not saying they shouldn't have the right just saying it doesn't seem dignified to me for whatever reason.

by Anonymousreply 15September 14, 2023 4:03 PM

What a sad thing. I have relatives in that area.

by Anonymousreply 16September 14, 2023 4:06 PM

It shouldn't have to come to this. I don't know what the answer is but it's awful to put a decision like that on a man in his 90s.

by Anonymousreply 17September 14, 2023 4:06 PM

Death is never "dignified", R15. If you believe it is, you're very lucky or very naive.

by Anonymousreply 18September 14, 2023 4:13 PM

Why did they airlift and perform surgery on a 93 year-old, especially under those circumstances? Imagine if they saved him? That’s fucking heartless.

Agree that it was most likely an act of love. And there should have been an easier, less violent option, but not sure what that would be. Very sad.

by Anonymousreply 19September 14, 2023 4:15 PM

Other than putting a pillow over her face. But then he still had to kill himself. He couldn't go on living, poor man.

by Anonymousreply 20September 14, 2023 4:17 PM

As has been said 1) no one can fault him for wanting the suffering to end but 2) lying there for hours with gunshot wounds as you die isn't beautiful, right, or excusable. So many other gentler ways to check out.

My own buddhist study, though, calls this into some question. The consciousness, the Primal Mind, doesn't need a violent end to prepare for, experience death. It's a unresolved question as to "let life end" on its own terms, or help the ending along.

by Anonymousreply 21September 14, 2023 4:21 PM

That's very sad; my grandmother had dementia & it was literally like dealing with a cranky 3 year old. At the end, she literally started biting the aides at the nursing home. It's a wonder they didn't kick her out. So it's really tragic that this man felt he was at the end of his rope and he had no other options.

by Anonymousreply 22September 14, 2023 4:21 PM

My understanding is that physician assisted suicide is more challenging to secure for someone with major cognitive issues, like dementia. When my dad was in hospice with cancer and cognitive issues (possibly the effect of the spread of cancer, possibly dementia) he was never 'with it' enough to fully appreciate the situation and to pass the 'sniff test' that the licensed physician would require. We wanted to offer this to him as a compassionate option, should he desire it, but we couldn't even get that far. He was in hospice for several months before he passed... thankfully.... peacefully.

by Anonymousreply 23September 14, 2023 4:22 PM

[quote]It's sad for us, looking in, but a compassionate blessing for them.

Complete fucking bullshit. Compassion would be a right to die with dignity and the resources to access a death like that. Compassion would also be support up until the moment of death through no-cost healthcare and fully subsidized senior care with full mental health support for both partners.

You're a lunatic if you think shooting your wife at 93 then turning the gun on yourself is some example of compassion.

And R18 death is universal but dying like this is a tragedy, and saying no death can ever be dignified is offensive in the extreme. Maybe you're ready to put bullets in your loved ones but that's not normal, hon.

Jesus Christ some scary people post here.

by Anonymousreply 24September 14, 2023 4:26 PM

A gun death is violent but I don't blame him AT ALL.

by Anonymousreply 25September 14, 2023 4:27 PM

[quote]He was a 93 year old primary caregiver of a 94 year old woman?

[quote]You can't blame people in this situation.

Would have been a lot easier to sell that house and live in assisted living than this.

by Anonymousreply 26September 14, 2023 4:35 PM

There are a lot of soulless people, who under the guise of being bleeding hearts, demand that everyone stay on this earth, and suffer as long as they can!

These are the same types who want homeless people to stay on the streets, and live in their own shit and piss, because to manhandle them for 90 seconds to get them in the back of a police car to go to treatment or a facility would be just completely inhumane!

by Anonymousreply 27September 14, 2023 4:39 PM

Assisted living is hugely expensive, and they don't take people in their 90s with dementia. Unless their house was worth several million no assisted living is taking two mid-90s people, one with dementia. You need to go into assisted living by about 80 at the latest and sign over all assets when you do. It's not like a pet shelter where you just dump someone.

Does anyone with an elderly parent post here or is it all just braindead 15 year olds posting now?

by Anonymousreply 28September 14, 2023 4:39 PM

73 is the most fiscally responsible time to die. Bankers take note.

by Anonymousreply 29September 14, 2023 4:44 PM

Good for them. Many seniors in their 70s and 80s and 90s think about how to exit a lot. At least he lasted long enough to act.

Seniors should have a right to death and it’s not anyone else’s business if they choose so.

The poor guy though. A chest shot and the first one did not do the job. That is why they heard two shots and the word “wounds” used above.

by Anonymousreply 30September 14, 2023 4:50 PM


1. I turn 73 next month.

2. "Fiscal responsibility" is only defined by the international crony capitalist overlords who monetize even human consciousness.

3. Truth is beauty, beauty is truth. Fuck the rest.

by Anonymousreply 31September 14, 2023 4:59 PM

[quote] I don't know [R10] making it to age 93 and then getting shot to death doesn't sound like a peaceful way to go. Just saying.

The 94 year old suffered from dementia. The 93 year old was her caregiver and suffered from abject misery. At that age, a gunshot is a quick, merciful death.

by Anonymousreply 32September 14, 2023 5:06 PM

[quote] Would have been a lot easier to sell that house and live in assisted living than this.

Easier for whom?

by Anonymousreply 33September 14, 2023 5:08 PM

R21, well maybe in keeping with your Buddhist teachings you can help a senior take care of another dementia-addled senior in their private residence. It's not sitting in a cozy chair with a good book while a sweet little old lady sleeps. Get in there and clean the shit off the floor. Get up with them every two hours every night for weeks and months on end when they wake up thinking it is time for breakfast or time to go to work all night, every night. After a week of that, you won't be thinking very clearly and your mental health will take a real nosedive, but that's ok, because Buddha's not real clear on this, so you better just stick it out. Try to to take it personally when they slap you in the face, they don't know no better.

This is not this man's moral failing alone, this is a failing of society at large, and that includes those who have the leisure time to express disapproval, from behind a computer screen, that these two didn't die "the right way."

by Anonymousreply 34September 14, 2023 5:10 PM

Can I have their things?

by Anonymousreply 35September 14, 2023 5:11 PM

Assisted suicide is preferable to assisted living. It's cheaper and more comfortable, too.

Even if you're rich (which almost no old people are these days), assisted living is still a fate worse than death. You're stuck at the mercy of low-wage immigrants who ignore you, swipe your pills, and leave you struggling so long that you shit your pants before you can inch your way over to the toilet. And your kids never come to visit, the seedy fucks. They're too busy poring over your house and belongings, selling it all to pay for their own vacations and debts. Your friends are all dead. Your spouse is probably dead. And you can't leave your bed or your room without begging for help. And even if you could, where would you go? And all this assumes you're still mentally fit, and not deep into dementia. Memory care patients smear shit on the walls, scream themselves to sleep, and punch their own roommates. It's worse than prison.

Life isn't worth living if you have no QUALITY of life.

by Anonymousreply 36September 14, 2023 5:13 PM

[quote]Assisted living is hugely expensive, and they don't take people in their 90s with dementia. Unless their house was worth several million no assisted living is taking two mid-90s people, one with dementia. You need to go into assisted living by about 80 at the latest and sign over all assets when you do

Full blown nursing homes cost around $7K per month, which is what she would have needed. You don't need millions. Assuming the house was worth $400K, you'd get at least 5 years. This is discounting SS income or any savings.

Better than shooting someone.

by Anonymousreply 37September 14, 2023 5:15 PM

I take care of my 87 year old mom - she never planned ahead - she was great until she wasn’t. I am doing my best - but so many of the programs out there as well meaning as they are can also be a bit “punitive.” I am saying I would like to be able to go through things get information and get some help with out ONE strident by the book person make decisions that could set things in motion that can’t be turned around. We don’t have any relatives left. All of the old friends that say “We’re family - we’re family” - show how quickly they aren’t family. The old man probably had things under control but lost control quickly. He might have been recently diagnosed with cancer and new he was going to die and couldn’t care for her. The more I take care of my sweet mom - I realize I am closing in on 60 and if dementia is in my future - who will care about me? Not “boo hoo” who will care about me - but I hope that if I fall into dementia and I’m alone I will have some kindness and dignity …. Well nothing I said in this post is coming out right. I’ll bet that old man had many tortured nights leading up to that.

by Anonymousreply 38September 14, 2023 5:16 PM

R37 You assume a lot. They might've had debts already from her expenses, or a reverse mortgage, or they might've been renters.

And even if the home sale pays for her care, what's supposed to become of the old man? Where's he supposed to live?

by Anonymousreply 39September 14, 2023 5:17 PM

[quote]You need to go into assisted living by about 80 at the latest and sign over all assets when you do.

None of this is true.

by Anonymousreply 40September 14, 2023 5:18 PM

I would kill myself before I would put my partner in the position this lady's husband had to make.

If my doctor ever gives me that diagnosis, I'm not waiting until I don't know who he is or I am. I'm out. I'm choosing so he doesn't have the burden this guy did and he wouldn't have to face selling everything we own and living in his car so strangers can abuse me, for a few extra years while I wonder who the fuck I am, who he is, and where I'm at.

by Anonymousreply 41September 14, 2023 5:19 PM

Knew not new^

by Anonymousreply 42September 14, 2023 5:19 PM

Why post this story? It is not a novel situation and, unfortunately, is seen at times.

Just needing something to cluck about and make sad faces over, you cunt?

by Anonymousreply 43September 14, 2023 5:20 PM

[quote]This is why the right to die should be legal in every state

That, or the right to decent health care and end-of-life care.

by Anonymousreply 44September 14, 2023 5:25 PM

Something like this happened a few doors down from mine several years ago. The elderly caregiver husband became ill himself and saw no other way out. His despair was understandable but all who knew them were aghast at how he chose to deal with it.

It was a violent, gruesome act. If he'd meant it as an act of love, there were gentler ways he could've achieved the same result. Most upsetting of all was that unused resources were available to them. He was either unaware (which was unlikely, given the neighborhood's demographics) or too stubborn to accept help.

by Anonymousreply 45September 14, 2023 5:26 PM

R24, are you really that obtuse?

Posters here are saying that it is compassionate relative to the alternatives that CURRENTLY EXIST IN REALITY in most of the US.

Of course the better alternative would be assisted suicide or just a hell of a lot of assistance in general.

That is not an option for people in this country.

by Anonymousreply 46September 14, 2023 5:28 PM

R31 happy birthday for next month!

by Anonymousreply 47September 14, 2023 5:30 PM

R43 well 44 other people are happy to 'cluck' about it and your chickenhead ass decided to poke in here and cluck when you could've keep scrolling so what's your issue bitch? Go create your own topic or jump into the nearest greasefire you miserable cunt.

by Anonymousreply 48September 14, 2023 5:32 PM

[quote]Full blown nursing homes cost around $7K per month, which is what she would have needed.

Oh really? Why did my mother's cost $10k a month when she died in 2018? My partner's father is in one now and it's even more expensive. Also, "nursing home" is not the same thing as "assisted living."

by Anonymousreply 49September 14, 2023 5:36 PM

R34, you are completely right. R21, spare us your Buddhist high horse.

And R43, YOU are the cunt.

by Anonymousreply 50September 14, 2023 5:36 PM

No, R37, it isn't. You think $7k is noting?

by Anonymousreply 51September 14, 2023 5:38 PM

R46, to answer your question: yes, R24 IS that obtuse.

by Anonymousreply 52September 14, 2023 5:42 PM

R34 I took care of my mother as she was dying of brain cancer.... cleaning the dark liquid oozing from her bedsores.

I took care of my father in the last year of his life - showering him, changing his diapers, loving him completely.

Buddhism, its views and intentions, is larger than such details....and lives exactly in such details. All is impermanent, and part of my practice is to visualize old age, sickness, and death - in order to have both Emptiness and Compassion.

by Anonymousreply 53September 14, 2023 5:43 PM

R53, sounds like you were a good person to help them. But one does not need Buddhism to know that all is impermanent.

by Anonymousreply 54September 14, 2023 5:45 PM

R54 Oh, completely agree. Buddhism is just one name for understand Mind and Being as they are. Buddhism is much larger than Buddhism.

by Anonymousreply 55September 14, 2023 5:48 PM

You know one difficult thing for a caregiver - and usually by the time you become a caregiver things have moved slowly and one day “there you are.” my mom’s insurance changed and she went front a great PPO to a crummy HMO and didn’t realize what drawbacks there would be. Suddenly when you are in “the middle of it” and you are unraveling the live of a formerly busy and private woman - missed bills unwise moves. That’s when the “Why didn’t you?” How did that happen?” “You should have …” You should …”

by Anonymousreply 56September 14, 2023 5:48 PM

It's all too easy to imagine my partner and myself in this situation. If anything, the US will be even MORE backwards by then, and even fewer options for old age/end of life care will be available. But guns and bullets will of course be plentiful, as always. I don't blame this man at all.

by Anonymousreply 57September 14, 2023 5:48 PM

Completely agree, R57.

by Anonymousreply 58September 14, 2023 5:51 PM

If you consider the pain this man was in to do what he felt he had to do, it's heartbreaking.

by Anonymousreply 59September 14, 2023 5:53 PM


Good for you. How are you going to do it? You think that part is easy?

Self administered pills often don’t work or make things far worse. Guns often don’t work. I hate heights so that’s a no go for me. Drowning sounds either really easy or dreadful.

by Anonymousreply 60September 14, 2023 5:56 PM

No, R60, drowining is not easy. Pills and booze, with an anti-nausea pill to keep it all down.

by Anonymousreply 61September 14, 2023 5:58 PM


by Anonymousreply 62September 14, 2023 5:59 PM

I just nursed a parent through 12 years of dementia and cannot even imagine what this guy went through at his age. I have no idea how he managed. I don’t know if what he did was right or wrong but I certainly won’t judge it. Until you’ve dealt with this you simply cannot understand.

And they wouldn’t have been accepted at assisted living. Not her. A nursing home may not have accepted her either if they didn’t have a locked dementia unit. Getting care for a dementia patient is a whole separate hell from even just plain nursing homes.

by Anonymousreply 63September 14, 2023 6:02 PM

That's right, R63. Assisted living facilities often don't accept people in that situation,

Not only do I not judge this man, I applaud him for having the courage to do what he did.

by Anonymousreply 64September 14, 2023 6:05 PM

Hospice can help a lot, but you have to have a doctor sign off that you probably won't live another six months. If you outlive the six months, you can be granted more time if they think you're still dying soon. If they think you're getting better then they stop the services, but they can re-start them later if the patient starts declining again. It's a great program.

I was surprised earlier this summer when I mentioned hospice here and a few DLers had never heard of it before, so I like to mention it as an option. Medicare usually covers nearly all, if not all of it. If you can manage to die at home, hospice won't take your house. Hospice actually doesn't do that, but some people receive hospice care while in assisted living/nursing home-- those people may lose their house when they die-- that's because of the care home, not hospice.

They help a LOT. They can give family caregivers a break, arrange for regular housekeeping, and of course provide nursing care in the home (setting up meds, taking vitals, managing pain with prescriptions, etc.) and they have so much experience dealing with end-of-life care that they know a lot of little tricks, products, and resources that first-timers would never know about. I got my grandma on it when I saw that her care was becoming too much for my parents (she lived in her own home with her dog). She had weekly visits from the nurse (those increased as she declined further), a weekly housekeeper (2 hours a week, did laundry and cleaned and visited), a weekly counselor to talk to, and a weekly volunteer who was another old woman that liked to visit about the old days-- she really liked that one, and a bath day which was two hours, when she would get a shower and lotion and all that.

Aside from hospice, she also had a cleaner from the county Health Department coming once a week, and a bath aide from the health department once a week. And meals on wheels. The more eyes, the better. She was dirt poor and didn't pay anything for this-- maybe she paid $15 a week to the health department, and she'd donate $40 a week to meals on wheels, which also supplied her dog food.

It was my paternal grandma. My dad has Parkinson's and my mom has always been extremely jealous of my grandma, so my parents could/would only do so much. I was with her when she died. I live a few states away so I made most of her care arrangements and I came up to help several times for weeks at a time, working remotely, but at the very end of course, hospice wanted someone with her 24/7. My parents tried to do that but after about five overnights at her house, alternating nights, both were disoriented from broken sleep and the stress of it all. I came up and stayed with Granny until she died a few days later. I felt so bad for my dad, I did it for him as much as I did it for my grandma. Anyway, hospice didn't take anything at the end. My parents got the house and my grandma got to go at home, with her dog by her side, like she wanted. She was not in pain, we were giving her morphine in the days leading up to her death, and because she was under hospice care, while she was still functional, she was able to be on a fentanyl patch that controlled the crippling pain of advanced osteoporosis. She was in so much pain, but they can't/won't prescribe that stuff until you sign a paper saying you're ready to die when you go on hospice. She had lost 50 pounds within the year and was sleeping more, and that was enough for her doctor to say she could go on hospice care.

I'm not saying any of this was an option for this couple, though I think hospice could find a doctor who would have qualified that woman, but people can't use programs they don't know exist. That's why I am posting this -- because of the other DLers' comments about not being sure of what will happen later in life, look into hospice, and remember it when you or someone you know may need it.

by Anonymousreply 65September 14, 2023 6:10 PM

Thanks forsharing that, R65.

by Anonymousreply 66September 14, 2023 6:18 PM

I meant *$40 a month to Meals on Wheels, not $40 a week.

You're welcome, R66. Pass it on so more people can go at home!

by Anonymousreply 67September 14, 2023 6:21 PM

Some options go off the table. One of my friends, in a moment of extreme candor, admitted that she and her mother killed their father (euthanized him). Her father had early onset Alzheimers. (Came on in his late 50s) . They had ample financial resources, but the mother wanted to and chose to care for him herself, which for the first 8 years was manageable - not fun, but manageable. However, then he got increasingly agitated, would escape (they lived far out in the country), spent a lot of time terrified, alternating with violent resistance to simple things like bathing. and finally she came to the difficult decision to put him into a memory care unit. The fact that he was so young (relatively speaking), meant that he was still physically strong. At the end of ONE WEEK in assisted living, they got a phone call that he couldn't stay - they had to come to get him immediately. He had overpowered and hurt several workers at the assisted living (and I think that was with calming medication). Anyway, they had to go to pick him up. and take him home, and the mother begged the daughter to help her research how to euthanize someone without leaving marks and things that would lead to a charge of murder. There is a method with a plastic bag, (I'm linking it below). And that's what they used. The daughter fully understood and supported the mother's decision, but she said that it was still a horrible and haunting decision. The father had long-since been completely non-verbal and non-responsive to any sort of question, basically vegetable-like, but strong enough to thrash around. She said that his body at the end really resisted, even though there was no consciousness there. But the good thing was that were was no blood, no marks, nothing to make people wonder what had happened.

Of course, I say that I'd like something like that if I was aware enough that I realized that I was deep in the throes of dementia, but as someone said above, by the time the time has arrived, you're usually too far gone to give legal consent. And the method linked below sounds too difficult for someone to do for himself, without assistance. I went with a neighbor when she put down her dog, a 14 year old German Shepherd. I thought the process was beautiful. They gave the dog a shot to calm it down, slow its breathing and stop being anxious, allowed my neighbor to get on the floor and spend 20 minutes or so of quality time with the dog, and then administered the shot that stopped his heart. My first thought was "how humane". And then my next thought was, "why is it humane to do this with animals without consciousness, but considered murder in the case of humans, who, in the case of extreme pain or total loss of their minds, would BEG for it"?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 68September 14, 2023 6:28 PM

R53, then I'm sure you can only imagine what it would be like to be a NINETY-THREE year old saddled with providing that level of care to a loved one.

by Anonymousreply 69September 14, 2023 6:28 PM

R68 here. There must be something on DL that doesn't allow this link, but someone interested can google suicide bag or exit bag to get the article

by Anonymousreply 70September 14, 2023 6:31 PM

R65 Thanks for that. How did you initially start the hospice care? Was it through a hospital, a state or county agency?

by Anonymousreply 71September 14, 2023 6:36 PM

R69 No, I can't. And neither can you.

(as a soon-to-be 73 year old, I am amused that folks think that "old age and old people" is one single thing, the same for all)

by Anonymousreply 72September 14, 2023 6:36 PM

[quote] At that age, a gunshot is a quick, merciful death.

Not really. Both had multiple gunshot wounds.

by Anonymousreply 73September 14, 2023 6:51 PM

R73 That's the neuropathy of old age. His grandson would've put them both down clean.

by Anonymousreply 74September 14, 2023 6:57 PM

Well, there's old age, and then there's one's 90s, R72. It's a different ballgame.

by Anonymousreply 75September 14, 2023 7:02 PM

My MIL is close to 100 and she has 24 hour home health aide in the house, My husband pays extra for them to clean and do laundry. Problem is, the aides are getting old. The old bat trusts them because they were her son’s caretakers for years before he died of Covid. Now they’re at least 70.

It’s a lot cheaper than a nursing home. My husband does the food shopping by Instacart and is there on the day they deliver to check that the order is correct and puts the food away.

A lot of people don’t even know you can get 24 hr home health aide, but you have to be on Medicaid. Which means you’d better have your house signed over to or in trust to someone else. That’s what elder attorneys are for.

Sad to see that house in OP link. Looks like a nice little early 1970s house. Probably bought it new, had lots of years there. Then all their friends and relatives died, one by one, and they were left alone. My husband was talking about what kind of funeral to have when his mother dies and I’m like….”Uh, we’ll be the only ones there. Everyone else is dead. I’d hold onto any plans for a big do.”

by Anonymousreply 76September 14, 2023 7:07 PM

We're kinder to our pets than we are to each other.

by Anonymousreply 77September 14, 2023 7:12 PM

[quote] The old bat

Sounds like you really love her, R76.

by Anonymousreply 78September 14, 2023 7:25 PM

R71, first, I Googled the hospice services available in my hometown (again, I live out of state). The town population is about 50,000; it is mostly working poor to blue-collar middle class, and it's in a rural state. I add those details because I don't want people to think it's just for certain people in wealthier states-- it's for everybody.

There were three different agency listings, one of those was tied to the local hospital. That's the one I called first and I was pretty comfortable with them right away. I went to my grandma's house that night and I talked to her about starting hospice, as the day before she had told me that she was tired of living, all her friends were gone, her siblings were all gone-- she had long outlived everyone. She told me that day that she thought it might be best if she went into a nursing home. When I was a kid and she was in her 50s and 60s, she always told me if she got to the point where she couldn't get to the bathroom on time/needed "diapers", or if she started sticking artificial flowers in her lawn like the old lady next door, that it was time to let her go. I never forgot that. She worked in nursing homes her whole life and she didn't want any of that either. Her only possession was her modest home, which I knew she wanted to keep in the family. Going into a nursing home would have gone against every single one of her wishes. But I think my mom had shown her a great deal of resentment over the prior six months (and she knew my mom was capable of putting my dad through hell over it, too, since she was his mom) said she didn't want to be a burden to my parents, so maybe it was time to go into a home.

Anyway, I thought about it and the next day I suggested hospice to her. She didn't know what it was, but I explained it, that it was for people who were ready to go, and who wanted to go at home, if possible. I told her she would be able to get decent medication for her pain, which was just relentless. She said it sounded like a good idea (but she was skeptical because she had never heard of it).

I called that hospice first thing the next morning, and they came out to her house in the early afternoon, that day. Two RNs. They said she qualified and they would have her doctor sign off on it, basically handing over her care to them with his guidance when/if necessary. They went over everything with her-- if the patient falls or something, they don't go to the hospital, they're to call hospice, or have their emergency button programmed to call hospice, and hospice will come get them comfortable. Things like that. They go off their life-extending medications, like blood thinners or anything else extends the life but does not add to the quality of life-- quality of life stuff they get to stay on, anxiety meds, etc, they get to stay on all that stuff.

When they were pretty sure my grandma understood everything, they asked her if she was interested and she said, and they reiterated that it wasn't to extend her life, but to provide quality end-of-life care that she wouldn't otherwise be eligible to receive. She agreed and they had her sign a paper, and services started the following Monday.

by Anonymousreply 79September 14, 2023 7:40 PM

Yeah, put that old bitch down just like Travis did to Old Yeller.

by Anonymousreply 80September 14, 2023 7:49 PM

[quote]Oh really? Why did my mother's cost $10k a month when she died in 2018? My partner's father is in one now and it's even more expensive. Also, "nursing home" is not the same thing as "assisted living."

Because you are an hysterical queen who responds to strangers on the internet like a pit bull? I'm assuming there must be some tax for that.

I was going off the average listed on AARP's website R49 for a NURSING home.

R39 is correct though. I'm assuming they own their home and are debt free. That may not be the case.

by Anonymousreply 81September 14, 2023 7:51 PM

[quote]"why is it humane to do this with animals without consciousness, but considered murder in the case of humans, who, in the case of extreme pain or total loss of their minds, would BEG for it"?

I've never understood this. You know the saying "You wouldn't treat a dog that way"? Yet we give pets much more consideration when they're old / sick than we do humans.

by Anonymousreply 82September 14, 2023 8:04 PM

They shoot horses, don’t they?

by Anonymousreply 83September 14, 2023 9:03 PM

My plans are my plans, R60.

I'm sorry you don't like heights and preemptively veto firearms and pills as well.

Hopefully, neither of us will have to choose to go out early. Best of luck to you, brother.

by Anonymousreply 84September 15, 2023 12:31 AM

Jesus, so sad, and tragic. R.I.P.

by Anonymousreply 85September 15, 2023 1:27 AM

I don’t know why the Dems don’t take up the cause of euthanasia.

by Anonymousreply 86September 15, 2023 1:32 AM

It's an highly controversial and debatable issue R86 even for liberals.

by Anonymousreply 87September 15, 2023 1:43 AM

There should be no controversy about allowing people to die with dignity. Prolonging the life and providing care for elderly in need of assistance is a billion dollar industry, so we know legislators will be enriched resisting it.

by Anonymousreply 88September 15, 2023 3:37 AM

End of life issues are unbearable and horrifying for many people. With dementia and other severe health problems they face loss of home, proper care, as well as isolation, poverty, and loss of control over their lives.

I have no objection to people in those situations deciding to end of their lives, but I firmly believe our wealthy greedy culture does not do near enough to properly help people in dire straits.

A family member, after a long independent life, suffered failing health and dwindling savings after spending 10 years and much of their savings caring for a stroke paralyzed husband at home before he died. A few years later her health was rapidly failing she could not live independently and moved to a care facility. It was expensive, we helped her sell her house, but the money kept draining. You have to be impoverished to qualify for Medi Care skilled nursing facilities and you often don't have a choice of facility or location. Medi Cal beds are scarce. One resource person said a bed in a good facility was like finding a golden nugget. My 95 year old relative died before her savings were depleted. It was a blessing. Social Security is not enough without other assets.

by Anonymousreply 89September 15, 2023 3:52 AM

This reminds me of the plot of Michael Haneke’s Amour. One of the most heart wrenching movies I’ve ever seen. Highly recommended, but prepare to end up a complete mess when over.

by Anonymousreply 90September 15, 2023 4:29 AM

R90 Or “House of Sand and Fog.”

by Anonymousreply 91September 15, 2023 4:36 AM


It’s heights I don’t like. And I’d hate to land on someone, so jumping is off the table is a no go for me in more than one way.

I have no problem at all with gun though messy or pills, But far to often they don’t work. The person ends up as a veggie or with half their face shot off and blind and still alive.

Good luck to you as well

by Anonymousreply 92September 15, 2023 1:07 PM

A murder-suicide involving a couple in their nineties occurred at Baptist Medical Center in Jackson, Mississippi.

by Anonymousreply 93September 15, 2023 1:13 PM

The elderly are a burden. So are the handicapped. Ought we not show them both the door?

by Anonymousreply 94September 15, 2023 10:58 PM

It doesn't pleasure me to tell you that you'll be there before you know it, R94.

by Anonymousreply 95September 16, 2023 3:05 AM

Would now be a good time for an advertisement for the new Soylent Cola?

The taste varies from person to person!

by Anonymousreply 96September 16, 2023 4:14 AM
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