I am divided on how I feel, but terrified that we will. I would like to know how the majority of you feel.
A Serious Question: How Many of you Believe We Will Lose Democracy in 2024?
|by Anonymous||reply 68||September 19, 2023 2:42 AM|
I don't think we will, but I have to acknowledge it's within the realm of possibility. If Biden has some health emergency, all bets are off.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||September 6, 2023 7:40 PM|
we are NOT going to lose it. just make sure to vote and get everyone you know to vote.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||September 6, 2023 7:41 PM|
I don't believe that, I think Biden has it in the bag. However, it's highly likely Dems lose the Senate, which means nothing will get passed and no one confirmed for the next four years. Which could lead to people becoming disillusioned and frustrated, which might result in an actual red wave in the midterms and then some monster of a GOP candidate becoming president in 2028. THEN we could lose democracy.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||September 6, 2023 7:42 PM|
Thanks. I really needed to be reassured. 🥴
|by Anonymous||reply 4||September 6, 2023 7:49 PM|
No, we're not going to lose democracy. We're going to have to fight for it. If you're lazy and foolish, then you will lose it. If you do the right thing and get off of your collective fat-whore ass, we'll be fine.
You exaggerate the numbers these white supremacist/fascist/Nazis have in America. They don't have enough votes to win. They have enough votes to make trouble. We have to whack-a-mole them for a while until more of them get the point that they are losers who lost. Trump being put on ice and/or stroking out will go a long way towards pounding these assholes into the dirt where they belong.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||September 6, 2023 7:56 PM|
How many of you believe our entire political system needs a major face-lift?
We truly need a viable third party. The two party system is NOT working.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||September 6, 2023 8:31 PM|
[quote] You exaggerate the numbers these white supremacist/fascist/Nazis have in America. They don't have enough votes to win.
R5 I wish I had your optimism.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||September 6, 2023 8:33 PM|
Honestly, I am ready for civilization to crumble. I have a manual cigarette maker, and I can also roll filterless, so I can make myself useful in the post apocalyptic wasteland by making cigarettes for people.
Come on apocalypse!
|by Anonymous||reply 8||September 6, 2023 8:35 PM|
It is the dark money backers pulling the strings and funding this that scare me the most.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||September 6, 2023 8:35 PM|
The truth is, if Trump can win after all voters know about him, it’s the end of our American democracy.
Partner and I are scouting other countries in case, those I don’t expect him to win.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||September 6, 2023 8:38 PM|
Even if Trump loses, we're not out of the woods:
|by Anonymous||reply 11||September 6, 2023 8:41 PM|
I believe that it is a distinct possibility, and no amount of cheerleading can make it otherwise. Civilizations crumble all the time, why should the USA be immune from the tides of history?
I also agree with R6. Things cannot go on as they are, yet everyone is devoted to keeping our failed system.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||September 6, 2023 8:43 PM|
The two-party system is the best system. Viable third parties would only mean votes taken away from the other two parties, resulting in coalition politics and governments...a bigger mess.
What I hope we may be seeing is the collapse of the Republican Party as it becomes more extreme (for the record I believe tied it is a neofascist party). Once it has collapsed, a new, more viable party may emerge.
I very much fear for democracy in 2024. Biden does not have this in the bag. He's old and has cognitive issues. The racist, sexist, irresponsible, and traitorous imbecile and his minions will use this to their advantage. And Americans have notoriously short memories.
I fear for the republic!
|by Anonymous||reply 13||September 6, 2023 8:51 PM|
[Quote]You exaggerate the numbers these white supremacist/fascist/Nazis have in America. They don't have enough votes to win.
R5, you're deluding yourself. It's not just a small, vocal minority of "white supremacist/fascist/Nazis." You are describing the entire Republican party of today, and they do have the votes to destroy democracy.
In Wisconsin right now, the neofascists/Republicans are planning to impeach a liberal justice before she even hears her first case. Why? Because she gives Democrats a 5-4 majority on the state Supreme Court and will overturn the gerrymandered voting districts that threaten Republicans' one-party rule in that state.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||September 6, 2023 9:02 PM|
[quote]I very much fear for democracy in 2024. Biden does not have this in the bag. He's old and has cognitive issues.
And there's a reason Republican megadonors are funding the No Labels party – they think a third-party will siphon more votes from Joe than fro the GOP nominee.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||September 6, 2023 9:14 PM|
It’s hard to figure out which is worse, what happens if Trump wins, or what happens if Trump loses.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||September 6, 2023 9:33 PM|
I truly feel you are lent to hysterics and irrational thought. You have no knowledge of history to boot.
Get a good analyst and read about US history, deeper than the highlighter version. And don’t forget to breathe deeply.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||September 6, 2023 9:38 PM|
There is no chance Trump or any Republican will win. The Democrats will win either with Biden (most likely) or without.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||September 6, 2023 9:39 PM|
[quote]There is no chance Trump or any Republican will win.
I'm old enough to remember the very same thing written here about four years ago.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||September 6, 2023 9:42 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 20||September 6, 2023 9:45 PM|
I hope Trump gets convicted. If he does, he won't be able to run for president. I am dreading 2024, if Trump runs. I am so sick of him and can't bear the thought of seeing him 24/7 again.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||September 6, 2023 9:49 PM|
“Lose democracy” = no more selection by voting for any representatives that are currently elected. Do people realize how ludicrous they sound when they use that phrase about America?
The closest thing to losing democracy would be if the country became a one-party state, without two parties with opposing views. That’s what we have to watch out for and fight against.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||September 6, 2023 9:50 PM|
I don't think we really know who will be candidates for the election....still think Newsom, who I am not a fan of but will vote for, might end up as one.
I think Biden and Trump are not making wise decisions and should have the country as their number 1 priority. Both are too old and we really need to look at the VPs as it is a good possibility they will be President. Trump is under a lot of pressure....not good for the heart.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||September 6, 2023 9:51 PM|
^ I'm hopeful we will win though....we really need to get the votes our for sure.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||September 6, 2023 9:52 PM|
[quote] In Wisconsin right now, the neofascists/Republicans are planning to impeach a liberal justice before she even hears her first case. Why? Because she gives Democrats a 5-4 majority on the state Supreme Court and will overturn the gerrymandered voting districts that threaten Republicans' one-party rule in that state.
That may be an underlying motivation, but the actual offense that would be used would be for her not recusing herself.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||September 6, 2023 9:53 PM|
[quote] your collective fat-whore ass
|by Anonymous||reply 26||September 6, 2023 9:54 PM|
[quote] your collective fat-whore ass
|by Anonymous||reply 27||September 6, 2023 9:54 PM|
[quote] Both are too old and we really need to look at the VPs as it is a good possibility they will be President. Trump is under a lot of pressure....not good for the heart.
Some people have conjectured he may pick someone like Vivek or that Arizona woman. I think he will do like he did in 2016 and pick someone safe, maybe another governor. He’s going to want someone with a reputation of being low key and stable, to be a counterweight to himself (and to not outshine him).
|by Anonymous||reply 28||September 6, 2023 9:57 PM|
[quote]I don't think we really know who will be candidates for the election....still think Newsom, who I am not a fan of but will vote for, might end up as one.
Why, it's inconceivable!
|by Anonymous||reply 29||September 6, 2023 10:04 PM|
I will vote for Biden even though he's way too fucking old. He'll still be better than any Republican.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||September 6, 2023 10:06 PM|
Damn, I quoted the wrong line at R29. Let me try again (apologies):
[quote]“Lose democracy” = no more selection by voting for any representatives that are currently elected. Do people realize how ludicrous they sound when they use that phrase about America?
Yes, that could never happen!
|by Anonymous||reply 31||September 6, 2023 10:09 PM|
I don't think that people have stopped to think about the Democrats. Even though they have been basically quiet and rarely come across like a Republican they will fight to the death for Democracy.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||September 6, 2023 10:19 PM|
I'd guess there's a 30% chance of Trump being elected.
I blame every braindead asshole who's even tempted to vote for him.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||September 6, 2023 11:03 PM|
R28, remember Dump took on Pence for his amazing resemblance to a bowl of vanilla pudding and for his strong ties with the fundie Jebus freaks (these are probably related). DJTJ has taken them on and the fundies like him (for his coke?) but he's not anywhere near as convincingly pious as Pence and Mother. The religious fervor is strong with them and they speak the fundie-language. Whoever Dump uses to replace Pence, it will have to be someone heavily into Jebus.
I don't think the fundies particularly care about Dump being a criminal but 91 felony counts and more than 22 years of house arrest seems like a bridge too far even for insane fundamentalists.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||September 6, 2023 11:14 PM|
[quote] Whoever Dump uses to replace Pence, it will have to be someone heavily into Jebus.
I agree. It will be someone not Trump-like. A woman would be good. Maybe the SD governor.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||September 7, 2023 12:44 AM|
R31, you are using a straw man, of course. Voting isn’t abolished. Voters would still elect their representatives. According to the article, the bill only calls for a re-vote in the event that polling places in Harris County run out of paper ballots, preventing people from voting on Election Day. The law would have no effect if Harris County doesn’t engage in shenanigans by not having enough ballots for people who want to vote. It’s unfortunate that the state has to make the county perform the simple task of having enough ballots on hand.
As for it only affecting Harris County: "We had 253 counties that had no issues, really, with ballot paper. We had one that did," Middleton said Monday in a speech on the Senate floor.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||September 7, 2023 12:57 AM|
A very real possibility the 2024 election will come down to 4 or 5 states. And within those states a very tiny number will decide the fate of our republic. Scary AF. The numbers are on our side for the long term which is why you see the R’s working overtime to shut off early voting, mail in, extended voting, voter id, etc. we have the numbers but frankly they can take this. It is real.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||September 7, 2023 12:57 AM|
[quote] A very real possibility the 2024 election will come down to 4 or 5 states. And within those states a very tiny number will decide the fate of our republic. Scary AF.
But it was true in 2020 also. A flip of 22k votes would have created a tie.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||September 7, 2023 1:04 AM|
[quote] I hope Trump gets convicted
I hope Trump dies. As long as that motherfucker draws breath, even if he's in prison, he'll be a massive troublemaker. The only way to force his cult to begin the process of forgetting about him is for him to be dead. And even if he dies the crazies will start claiming he's going to rise from the dead and take back the White House.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||September 7, 2023 2:41 AM|
He'll be on the Death Ticket with JFK Jr., R39.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||September 7, 2023 2:44 AM|
It’s a concern. I think about a lot.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||September 7, 2023 2:56 AM|
History has shown us that when cult of personality-type leaders die their movement usually dies with them.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||September 7, 2023 3:07 AM|
Pence makes my skin crawl.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||September 7, 2023 3:20 AM|
Pence is little more than a vampire.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||September 7, 2023 12:38 PM|
Concern for U.S. democracy amid deep national polarization has prompted the entities supporting 13 presidential libraries dating back to Herbert Hoover to call for a recommitment to the country’s bedrock principles, including the rule of law and respecting a diversity of beliefs.
Daniel Kramer, executive director of the George W. Bush Institute, spearheaded the project, saying it was necessary to remind Americans that their democracy cannot be taken for granted.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||September 7, 2023 1:12 PM|
Trump isn't going to win another election.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||September 7, 2023 1:50 PM|
Lose democracy? You already lost it. Both parties are fascist. Wokes and MAGAs are leading you to fascism it's just that fascism split itself in two to confuse you. Both parties are leading the US off a cliff. I thought that was pretty obvious by now.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||September 7, 2023 1:57 PM|
I’m afraid people are cynical and have given up. Biden has actually been very productive and effective, yet gets little credit. No, he’s not perfect, but it could be so much worse. We have to keep fighting for what we want, even though we don’t win all the time.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||September 7, 2023 2:14 PM|
The real problem is that a large percentage of politically active people no longer believe in representative democracy. Trump is just a symptom (and fortunately for us, a cowardly, inept one).
“Conservative” Americans aren’t really conservative anymore. They’ve been fired up by decades of ludicrous rightwing agitprop to hate anyone who isn’t “conservative” and see them as a menace. So when they lose an election, they didn’t lose, the evil libs stole the election. And when they are in power, they toss aside norms of government, so great is their fired up hatred of the democrats.
(McConnell and Obama’s nominee is a great example. The Republican majority forcing through the revision to the tax code to benefit billionaires is another.)
Rightwing hatebots, their small, angry brains colonized by Fox News, then turn around and spew this rightwing agitprop literally everywhere, including local community forums, gardening and knitting forums, and of course the datalounge — we have Defacto apparently making it his life’s work to dump rightwing agitprop on this forum meant for gossip and gay bitchery.
But won’t undecideds save us? Nope.
Undecideds vote based on stupid childish stuff and they tend not to be very intelligent people, so we can’t really rely on them to be there for representative government. And the republicans absolutely want to seize power. They won’t put it that way of course — but it’s exactly what they want. January 6, anyone? They’ll describe it all as being perfectly normal but they will suppress dissent and persecute vulnerable populations and “others” — including gays.
So America is basically done already. All thanks to the First Amendment, by the way. Oh, and guess how much respect the republicans will show to the first amendment when they overthrow the government?
|by Anonymous||reply 49||September 7, 2023 2:36 PM|
If it gets to the point that it appears Trump may regain the White House we will need a military intervention to keep him and all his insane followers at bay. Martial law may have to be declared.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||September 7, 2023 2:42 PM|
^^^ That’s another way of saying “America is a failed state”
|by Anonymous||reply 51||September 7, 2023 2:56 PM|
I believe we will, or that we'll start to see the loss of it. If a Republican wins it will slowly start to erode.
They have the courts and the media in their pockets.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||September 7, 2023 3:23 PM|
We lost Democracy a long time ago, kids. Wake up.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||September 7, 2023 3:49 PM|
If you told me, a former NYer, trump would have gotten to be president back then I would have told you “no way could that happen”
Now I believe he can and will manage to steal the election
|by Anonymous||reply 54||September 7, 2023 4:07 PM|
Quite frankly every morning I scan the news for a few key obituaries. Democracy is not one of them.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||September 7, 2023 4:11 PM|
Politics shouldn't be an avenue to become rich. If the money isn't taken out of politics we are doomed. We need term limits as well and responsible, fair, equal time reporting from the corrupt media.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||September 9, 2023 9:15 PM|
Does anyone feel more hopeful now because all of the indictments?
|by Anonymous||reply 57||September 9, 2023 9:19 PM|
I'd be worried for the next decade. Trump has unleashed something. Republicans have shattered norms. Will governing revert? I don't know. The U. S. is a fragile democracy.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||September 10, 2023 12:54 AM|
R3 I do, too.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||September 17, 2023 4:12 PM|
[quote] Republicans have shattered norms.
They really have!
|by Anonymous||reply 60||September 17, 2023 4:16 PM|
You ain’t kitting!
|by Anonymous||reply 61||September 17, 2023 4:16 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 62||September 17, 2023 4:50 PM|
OP you simpering fool, we lost it in 1963; and in elections in 2000.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||September 17, 2023 4:51 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 64||September 17, 2023 6:59 PM|
I think we could and it scares me shitless even at 68.
These people will do everything to make sure we die quickly so they can have more...People we MUST vote so there is no mistake about who wins
|by Anonymous||reply 65||September 17, 2023 7:04 PM|
I’m half horrified and half excited. Excited for the rise of revolutionary anti-Repugs finally taking on Trumpsters in the streets. I might be one.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||September 17, 2023 7:49 PM|
[quote] I hope Trump gets convicted. If he does, he won't be able to run for president.
R21, you are wrong. A conviction, even federal felony convictions, do not automatically make him ineligible to run for President of the United States. He can’t vote, but he can run. The only restrictions on his qualifications to be a candidate are set forth in the Constitution. Those qualifications say nothing about convictions. Only if he is barred by Section Three of the 14th Amendment could he be prevented from running. However, that is not automatic upon conviction.
As you can see from the linked article that could require 51 separate requests (to all 50 states and DC) with potentially varying and inconsistent results.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||September 18, 2023 10:57 PM|
It already lost. The airplane can continue to fly briefly after all the fuel and controls have stopped. That's what has happened to the U.S. Win or lose in 2024, the cards are stacked against the Democrats in various ways, and, no less importantly, it will take 20 years under good circumstances for the conservative crazies to begin to fade away.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||September 19, 2023 2:42 AM|