Is it impossible for “childless single” people to be friends with “married with kids” people?

Now now, it’s equally as impossible for those of us who are married but do not have children to be friends with breeding pairs. Their lives are not their own.

Eh. It's just life.

I'm in my mid 40s. My four oldest/best friends all have kids. We're more family than friends at this point and I know they're incredibly busy right now. I accept I'm relegated to holidays and "whenever they have time" status for now. But they've earned my love and patience.

Oh, one of those friends' kid is now 17. She's finally free. And guess what? I see her all the time again. Brunch once a month. Drinks at her place whenever we feel like it.

A good friend is a good friend, even if they have to go dormant for awhile.

[quote] I have to do all the legwork with staying in touch.

It's possible, but very difficult.

I'm childless and single and tried to remain friends with my married w/children friends. I eventually drifted apart from all of them. I was the one who put more effort into staying in touch. It was a waste of energy. I could've been doing something else.

Its possible but a lot more difficult in the early years of parenthood. Also they tend to be broke ass bitches at least until the kid stops doubling in size every 3 months and they can send them off to school rather than paying for child care. The friendship does change though I've seemingly devolved from extremely close best friend to drinking buddy for one friend on the one night a month his fiancé and bratlings release him.

It's tough, especially because I'm not a fan of kids so I don't really like being around them. They are sticky, snotty, gooey messes and I can't stand them touching things at my place. The worst are the parents who cannot do anything without their kids. Friend of mine never wanted kids, had one and is so sickenly into the kid that I can't stand being around her anymore.

I'm an adult. I don't want to be friends with your children. I want to hang out with my adult friends and have adult conversations. Sadly, I find that most friendships don't survive the kids phase.

Life = find someone to fuck and then take care of the kids that come about as a result of the fucking.

Pretty much, R6. Just as it has always been.

It’s not impossible but it depends on the individuals involved. People like your friend who gets annoyed if you don’t always invite his wife and kids are the kind of friend I’d happily drift apart from once they get married/have kids. On the other hand friends who enjoy time away from their kids/partner are worth making the effort for.

Yes, it’s impossible, but the friendship needn't end permanently. It just goes into cold storage for about 20 years until the kids are in college. Until then, every dinner, outing, conversation, text, email, discussion, and coffee hour will be all about CHILDREN—sleep schedules, feeding, problems, schools, teachers, diets, activities etc etc. No fucking thanks.

Then, when the kids are finally gone, take the friendship out of its winter hibernation and resume where you left off.

OP, if your “friends” wanted to be with you, they’d make the effort. Stop reaching out to them. They’ll contact you if they’re interested. If they don’t “punch and delete.” Move on and make new friends.

What's weird is that you didn't invite his wife and kids as well. A boating trip isn't quite the same as grabbing a coffee. If you want to be friends with married people with kids then try to include their family or at least be sensitive of the fact that they have a partner and kids and they're their priority.

It's very tough.

My best friend from high school is now married with four kids. At first, I was invited to birthday parties and so forth. I was even asked if I could be an honorary uncle to them. I gladly accepted, especially since I'm not a biological uncle to anyone.

He told me once that he could not imagine a life without children. He meant that literally. Even though of course he wasn't always a father, anything else was completely outside his consciousness. I knew he could not accept all of my invites, and he didn't, but I noticed he was rather unapologetic. It was like asking "Hey, do you want to build a rocket and travel to the moon this weekend?" I was asking the impossible.

My experience has not been that it gets better once the kids are out of diapers and no longer need constant monitoring. You can have a conversation with a friend and excuse yourself for a minute to change a diaper. You can't so easily excuse yourself when there is soccer practice, karate lessons, violin recitals. They have almost no time to spare. One year, holiday decorations were left out in their messy house for months.

This year, this "uncle" has not seen them since January. (I was invited to a summer barbecue, but I was sick.) He and his wife's new best friend is a divorced mother of two. (So it's the children that make the difference, not the marital status.) I'm trying hard not to be bitter, and I still think of him as a very good person, but years from now, when the kids are all grown, should they want to reset and hang out with me like old times, forget it. Hopefully I'll be too busy.

R12, somehow I suspect that these people's lives will be much more filled with people, love and activities when the kids are grown, than bitter, lonely uncle's.

Then you'd be a fool R13.

I love that my friends have children. It’s fun when we all get together and it’s like a 2nd generation of our social network has been created. I love watching all their kids together and I make time to do things, I’ll plan a day with them, bring my KitchenAid over and bake all afternoon with the kids, etc. Or take the kids out for boat rides and sight-seeing. I’m an uncle to my own nieces and nephews and I guess I’m an uncle to their kids too. I was there when they were born, held them and rocked them to sleep, spent time with their mothers when they recovered from birthing them and in the 1st year of motherhood, etc. I’ve been a part of their lives.

I understand what OP is saying. It makes me grateful that I have such great friends and am well-integrated into their lives. I have my own life too. And none of my friends are helicopter parents; they all have interesting careers, etc. They’re not trying to prove anything with their kids. I’m proud of them that they’ve raised such great kids and are such good parents without losing their own identities. And I’m also not the only single, childless person in our network of friends. I guess that helps. I feel really lucky.

Side note: reading this thread explains why so many become circuit queens.

When your friends go off and get married and have kids, and you want no part of that, you need to do something to fill the loneliness.

Circuit queens are quite vapid, but they're seeking to fill a void. Looking for company/companionship.

Perhaps they're just like us: no partner, never had a serious relationship. At some point, why bother? Just continue making life a party.

Absolutely r16 because there's zero other people remaining on the planet once a few friends become parents.

Yes - it’s very difficult, which is why it’s important to adjust and find friends who don’t have children (or who have grown children and want new friends). There are plenty of us out there. You can always make new friends, it just takes time and effort. And luckily, without children tying you down, you have a lot more time.

Find your community - married people with kids aren’t always it, despite the history you might have. They also tend to talk endlessly about their children (understandably - not faulting them) but what childfree person wants to hear about that? Not me. And before some of you start, that doesn’t make me lonely or bitter or fucked up - it means we’ve gone down different roads. Own it. You don’t need to cut them off, but you should move on - just like they have.

Frau alert at R13!

[quote]What's weird is that you didn't invite his wife and kids as well.

What's weird is not understanding that a nagging wife and bratty kids are annoying.

Doubt it, r14.

Sure, r20, all wives are nagging and all kids are bratty. Of course OP's friend is going to hang out with him, when he has such an opinion of his family.

We have a frau problem on this thread.

There's a basic degree of difference that can be hard to overcome. It happens with single vs married as well. It's a normal thing to seek out people with common experiences.

It doesn't help if the single person isn't interested in particular about kids or hearing about them. This can be really damning if it's the parent's first child - they aren't going to want to talk about anything else.

The weird thing is that many parents with young children actually feel quite isolated. You’re stuck with the kids nonstop and your social connections are tied to the parents of other kids they get along with. From friends and family with children, it always surprises me how lonely the experience can actually be. They have very little free time, but it’s not like they are off having a fantastic time socializing and blissfully happy with their new amazing friends. At least that hasn’t been what I’ve been told.

Unless you are a walking ball of misery, these old friends probably assume you are off having a good time and doing what you want. We always assume the grass is greener.

And r13 is wrong (and quite nasty) to assume that r12’s friends with children will end up ultimately surrounded by love and people - however she phrased it. Plenty of people end up divorced or hating their spouses and the kids are off living god knows where and barely in touch. Sweeping generalizations about who ends up happy and who doesn’t are bullshit. And god forbid r12 expresses some honest feelings on a gay message board without that kind of biting hetero response that is more fit for a mommy board on Facebook.

But this is a vile pit of cuntery (is that what Andy Cohen called DL?) so I guess play on…

I bet the OP would be fine if he had a partner , and all of his straight friends invited him , but always refused an invite for the partner. After all the partner is not their friend,

There would still be a thread just a different bitch.

Some of you cunts think I actively excluded the wife and brats. That’s bullshit. I sent a text to him saying “if you’re free next weekend would you like to go to the lake?” That’s all.

When I was a kid I remember my Gen X parents would go do things while the other parent stayed home with the kids and they were happy with that. My mom would go out with her girllfriends and we would have a fun movie night with dad. My dad would go hunting or fishing with his friends and we’d go shopping and do lunch with mom.

It seems like this new generation of parents act like they have to be guarding the nest all the time and god forbid should one parent do anything without the other.

I wrote a musical about this

R27

Yes most if us think you excluded the wife and kids. . Go back and read your first post

“Plus if I invited them all it would….”

I know what I wrote R29. It only crossed my mind to invite his whole fucking family AFTER I learned he was pissed that I didn’t. Go cradle a mug Frau.

OP wants to fuck his friend on a boat without the wife and kids watching. Is that so wrong?!

R30

LOL LOL :-)

You made it very clear you did not want the wife and kids and made no mention of inviting them after you saw you lost your friend.

“Plus if I invited them all…”

In my parents’ day, the husband did mostly NOTHING with the kids, and only a little with the wife like go to a party on the weekends. Unfortunately for him, my father had no friends, so he spent weekends working in the yard or on the house.

You need to make an ultimatum. It's you or his wife and kids. We'll see how good a friend he is.

[quote] Some of you cunts think I actively excluded the wife and brats. .... When I was a kid I remember my Gen X parents

If you got Gen X parents, you ain't nearly old enough to be calling posters on here cunts.

You got that, sweetie-pie?

When I was in my thirties I made so many straight childless friends who'd felt abandoned by their bechilded friends.

The same thing applies to grandparents. All they want to do is show pictures of the grandkids and relate every single " cute" thing they do or say.

Gen X are in their 50s and even 60s, r36. OP could easily be in his 30s.

Just take the hint and be understanding. Kids are crazy and take up a ton of time, money and attention. Look to find other childless friends, or maybe even single parents (but only if you like and are willing to hear about/accommodate kids).

R2 has it right. I have many friends who all had kids around the same time, as we entered our thirties, and I did have a time when I really felt abandoned. However, there was little I could do about it, so I just decided to accept things for the way they were. If a friendship is valuable enough to those involved, it will survive.

It is pointless to fight against the bonds which cause parents to be preoccupied by their children. And no-one is eager to see a friend who is resentful and who acts as if they have been abandoned. So, I decided that as my friends went off into a new phase of their life, I would do the same. I made a new group of friends, some of whom are older and some of whom are younger and developed new interests.

By expanding my own horizons, I gained some wonderful new friends and have stuff to talk about when I met my old ones. I show an interest in their kids and they are curious about my life too. And there is a joy in reconnecting more fully after a friend’s kids have flown the nest and he/she start to expand their own social lives again after a decade or two.

Not with my group. I was the friend they “got away” with. My one parent couple friends were practical, gave each other nights out where we’d hang, get dinner, get a little fucked up. When their kid got to be about 10, they’d straight up have parties at their house - with a mix of parents and non-parents - and the kids would be in the basement playing video games while we did our thing. And no one prattled on about parent shit.

I know this is the exception. But I think it’s healthy. All of my friends are aging hipster types and were serious about still having fun every so often.

Crazy talk from OP. How often do you need to hang out with your friends?

I'm Gen X R27 and that's how my brother and his wife did it. She'd do her running group one day. He and I would golf another.

Everyone had at least some of their own time, including the kids who are all now independent, functioning adults.

[quote]It’s not impossible but it depends on the individuals involved.

Exactly. As R43 just stated inadvertently: if the couple isn't joined at the hip and allows themselves to have separate lives, in-so-far as activities are concerned, it's easy. One parent watches the kids, he other one goes out.

When the kids are able to watch themselves, it's easier. I have a friend who lost her husband, and had five kids at home, I never see her. I get it. I know I will in a few years when they're older.

However, I have friends that are able to afford child care, and I see them all the time. Luckily, I like both the husband/wife (who was my friend initially) as a pair.

Finally, I have friends from college that had young kids at a certain point, and like R41, they became "come over and see us" kind of people with us adults all hanging out while the kids and other parents with kids are all off doing something somewhere else in the house.

[quote]I found out later he got pissed because I didn’t explicitly invite his wife and two toddlers. Guess what?

That's your friend's problem, OP. He should have asked if it was okay. If you said, explicitly, "No, no wife and kids." You didn't slight him in the least.

The vie en vie thing.

I suspect that OP is a far more difficult individual than he realises. For a start, he's posting private text messages between him and an apparent friend online and making that friend completely recognisable to people who know him, while bitching about that friend and making other private revelations about him.

R44, apparently all his married friends with kids, which is most of his friends, "never want or have time to hangout or go do anything".

I have a single gay acquaintance in his late 40s who has gone into full ‘token gay friend ‘ role for several of his straight friend couples with kids. He came out of a really bad relationship about 10 years ago and hasn’t dated since as far as I know. This is his refuge. He likes being invited over to their family meals and birthday parties. He posts photos from all this, and he’s always the odd one out in them. They’re always a bunch of straight couples…and hum. He seems happy enough, and it’s a surrogate extended family as his are far away. As their kids grow older, I sincerely hope he’s not ghosted.

OP, what's your relationship like with this guy? Do you often hang out just the two of you or is this an unusual invitation?

How do you get on with your unmarried friends who don't have kids?

Self Oh Dear.

There’s and him for they’re and hum.

There is an excellent half-hour single-episode comedy about this on Australian ABC-TV. It's the first episode of an omnibus show called Summer Love, and is by the creators of Colin from Accounts. It's about a childless couple whose longtime friends now have a two-year-old, and what happens when they all go away for a week together, and it perfectly shows why the child-encumbered and the childless just can't get on. Short clip at link.

No. It is not impossible. We always find time and energy for what is important to us.

IMy best friend now has a kid and I'm no longer allowed to say fuck or show her my latest giant dildo. She used to love that shit. Change isn't always good.

I'm single, my bestie is married with 2 kids, on one hand I love it, I feel I have extra nieces and nephews, but I do miss when my friend had more independence and we could party more. That said, when we were both single she was the TOO MUCH partying type and sometimes it was a task to keep up with her, so idk what I prefer.

No ,very weird . Glad i didnt reproduce.

[quote] —I bet your single because your awful.

Oh, dear.

[quote] I have a single gay acquaintance in his late 40s who has gone into full ‘token gay friend ‘ role for several of his straight friend couples with kids. He came out of a really bad relationship about 10 years ago and hasn’t dated since as far as I know. This is his refuge. He likes being invited over to their family meals and birthday parties. He posts photos from all this, and he’s always the odd one out in them. They’re always a bunch of straight couples…and hum. He seems happy enough, and it’s a surrogate extended family as his are far away. As their kids grow older, I sincerely hope he’s not ghosted.

I think for some straight people there's a certain cache of having an openly gay honorary uncle. It broadcasts acceptance. I think it's kinda cool to be honest, I probably would have come out earlier if I was raised in a home where my parent's had a gay friend.

I can’t stand children. Little bastards.

Short answer OP - 'no' - you're sidelined until the kids are in their 20's and their parents now have time for you again.

Until they become grandparents.

R58

Decades from now his gay and straight friends will remember him , as the asshole they have nothing to do with, that went to DL and publicly complained and gossiped because someone already had family plans for a day he wanted to go boating,

No boat for his gay friends they will remember.

The op fails the friends test

[quote] Some of you cunts think I actively excluded the wife and brats. That’s bullshit. I sent a text to him saying “if you’re free next weekend would you like to go to the lake?” That’s all.

If that’s exactly what OP sent and he got pissy enough about it to complain to another friend, then either he’s nuts or there is a history OP left out.

How would an exchange like this even generate enough emotion for the dad to complain about it to a third friend? And then the third friend goes and discusses it with OP? I’m guessing this is an issue OP has been bitching about and the dad friend saw this an an example of OP’s unreasonable expectations.

OP, for many married men it’s a big deal to take the better part of a weekend day to hang out without their family. You didn’t say “go out on the lake” you said “go to the lake.” How far is it? How long do these outings typically last?

I see married men doing the occasional boys outing, but it’s a big deal, with several friends, planned long in advance. They also go out after work with friends. And, of course, many have social engagements related to work. Golf or a sport? Yes, that, too. But those are usually done in the morning and dad is home the entire afternoon. Maybe the whole family goes to dad’s softball game. Maybe dad even has a relatively significant hobby -like being in a band. But the band practices and performs in the evenings.

What is rare, in my experience, is a married man with kids younger than HS age spending the better part of a weekend day with only one other friend. They simply don’t spent an entire Saturday or Sunday away from their families.

Now, if I’m wrong, and he went bitching to a third friend about your invite out of nowhere, then he’s just a dick. Or his wife was standing over him while he did it.

Also, it’s one thing not to invite the kids, but the wife might have been annoyed you didn’t invite her.

It’s possible, but it usually works out better if their children are older.

Nope.

Once people have kids everything changes. You can't really expect them to be the friends they used to be. You might still see them very occasionally, but it won't be the same. And yes, they tend to prefer finding other couples with kids about the same age.

Many people see their good friends on a regular basis r42. If you find that odd I think that says more about you.

My problem with my straight friends with kids was they would never get a babysitter. Both had two siblings plus parents within an hour drive. Give the kids to nana and papa for a night and have adult fun. No...those fucking kids were always there and always took all the attention.

While I understand not wanting a teenager glued to their phone babysitting, when you have family around, take advantage of them!

People with whom you were actually friends, as opposed to casual acquaintances whom you've mistakenly believed were friends, will remain friends even if they have children.

You may not spend as much time together and may have to spend time with the friend's family, but you can be friends unless you get pissy and DEMAND they accommodate you.

People who won't make an effort or make time were never friends. They were situational friends, like work colleagues with whom you were friendly, but inevitably drift away once you stop working together.

R64 Another single person.

Weekends are for family time for most people with kids. If you want 1:1 time with your friend without spouse and kids, it usually has to be during the week and for a short duration.

It gets a lot easier when your married friends with kids divorce and the parents find themselves with a lot more free time without having to be joined at the hip.

I've been partnered, mostly single. When partnered, I made an effort to stay in contact with my single friends. I think it's cruel to put your single friends on the back burner for extended periods. I tend to have close & deep friendships, though. I don't take any of my friends for granted.

What about when the kids reach 14 or so and don't want to hang out with their parents? Once I hit that age I'd stay over at friends' houses Friday and Saturday nights and often we'd go to parties. My friends' parents pretty much left us to our own devices, unless they had to drive us somewhere and pick us up. Plenty of time for all the parents to do their own thing. I have no idea what mine got up to - I rarely saw them on weekends.

R69, that is good that you kept up your friendships but the issue is that when kids enter the picture the friendship dynamic totally changes.

Exactly r71. People who drop their friends when they are partnered up are just bad friends (and there are plenty of people like that unfortunately). There is no real excuse for that.

But having kids is a completely different beast.

OP, if you’re not friends with the wife and kids, you’re not as close a friend as you used to be or think you are.

Wow. That's completely untrue, r73.

Friendships suck. He who travels fastest travels alone.

For me, an elder gay, the pattern became obvious only late in life: my close straight friends all had kids, and then they pretty much disappeared from my life except for the occasional lunches or reunions, stuff like that. Then, twenty or more year later, a number of them cake back into my life: either their kids were gone and they suddenly needed friends again because the couples didn't want to spend all their time with each other, or they got divorced, and they really needed friends because they hadn't really made many new ones while married.

For the most part, all of my straight male friends have been married constantly -- either with their first wife, or if they divorced or widowed, they quickly married again. Three of my friends have been married four times. Straight men don't know how to live life without a partner to take care of them.

And then there were the few times that a straight male friend, after years of marriage, came out of the closet. Oddly, they didn't usually become close friends again because they wanted to live life like an 18 year old -- they wanted to do all the things they didn't do when they were young, and I was long past partying and drugs.

R74 completely true in my experience.

In your experience, how often do you hang out with a married friend that doesn’t include his spouse and children? Do you vacation together without them? Get together at each other’s homes without including them?

I completely understand not having time to get with friends when kids enter the picture. Hell, I can't make time when I'm working overtime or I'm having a bad month and have a lot of appointments.

But if someone can't even be bothered to text once in awhile then I cut them out. I actually did that to a married friend with kids when I realized that my single mom friend made sure to make time for me. If a working woman raising a child alone can make the effort why can't a woman with a built in babysitter?

Real adults gay or straight move on in life . They partner up, they go to college, they move around the country, they make new friends that have maybe more in common with their current life and interests and job. A different if the gay or straight couple have kids it’s often months in end driving to practice, a meet or a match.

This is why they invented high school or college reunions. So people who once cared about each other can get together every few years .

[quote]In your experience, how often do you hang out with a married friend that doesn’t include his spouse and children? Do you vacation together without them? Get together at each other’s homes without including them?

Those are 3 completely different questions, r77, with different answers. I sometimes hang out with a friend without his family. I have have never vacationed with a family or my friend alone. If I go to the family's home, then I interact with whoever is there, of course. My home, might be the husband alone, maybe the wife as well. Never the kids.

I am friendly with, even fond of his wife and kids. I am not friends with them. Friendship is not conferred that way. That does not make me less of a friend to him.

Maybe we have a different concept of friendship.

[quote] But if someone can't even be bothered to text once in awhile then I cut them out. I actually did that to a married friend with kids when I realized that my single mom friend made sure to make time for me. If a working woman raising a child alone can make the effort why can't a woman with a built in babysitter?

IMO, it's the presence of the husband, not the children, that makes friends disappear. People get wrapped up in their spouses and dump their friends. Single parents still want adult companionship and will make time for friends.

Good point R81, however, she was with her husband (boyfriend at the time) when I met her. They were dating and eventually married while I was still talking to them. I think what changed was they had 2 kids in that time frame.

I'm not even bitter anymore. She got busy, maybe she drifted apart because her priorities changed, maybe she just didn't want to be friends with me anymore. No big deal in the grand scheme of things.

Is this about single women getting left behind once her friends get married and have children? Or gay men having children and their gay friends drift away?