Rosemary's Baby questions

Yes.

She jumped because the Castevets told her about their plan and she wanted no part of it. That's why they had to "start from scratch" with Rosemary (who overheard their conversation through the walls and incorporated their words in her crazy dream).

I want to know why Rosemary painted over that beautiful natural wood in the Dakota apartment.

She got what she deserved for that alone.

Im surprised this film didn’t get more flack for “anti-semitism”. It’s not btw. Hollywood and Broadway is run by powerful Jews. Makes sense they would be the villains in a film of this subject matter. Brilliant film and one the best of the 60s.

R4 I haven’t seen the film in years but I don’t remember any anti-semitism unless you’re drawing a parallel between the actors and/or characters being Jewish and Satan worshippers.

She was a 19 year old dating Frank Sinatra, a flower child and a crooner from her parents’ generation. At any rate, she had very long hair as was the style in the mid-late 60s so cutting it very short, a pixie cut, last popular ten years previously was considered radical. But mostly it was because she was dating/married to Sinatra.

But why did she cut it mid movie or was that a wig at the beginning?

She actually cut it the year before filming when she was still on Peyton Place. She wanted a change, and cut her own hair off. It created a sensation/scandal, because her character, Alison, was an all-American girl next door. Sinatra loved the cut, so she kept it.

“ I had literally cut it myself earlier that year — with a pair of fingernail scissors — while working on the “Peyton Place” TV series at Fox Studios. This was long before I ever heard of Vidal Sassoon. My then-boyfriend, Frank Sinatra, loved the cut, and so I kept it short. (I purchased some hair scissors; then, as now, I cut it myself.) Vidal Sassoon is mentioned in the book “Rosemary’s Baby” and the film. So, Paramount decided to stage a photo shoot in which Mr. Sassoon trimmed my 1 1/2-inch hair to 1 inch. The whole event was taken in good spirits. (I wore a wig during the earlier scenes.)”

I thought men who preferred women with short hair were closet gays. Mia, did ol' Frank corn hole you?

R9 My god you are an unabashed idiot.

Weird. I read that Frank Sinatra hated the short cut and dumped her shortly thereafter (thereby dodging a bullet as well).

[quote]Ava Gardner was not pleased about ex-husband Frank Sinatra's involvement with the teenaged Mia Farrow. "I always knew," she once declared, "that Frank would end up in bed with a boy."

[quote] I thought men who preferred women with short hair were closet gays.

That is 100% true, and never, ever varies.

All straight men think exactly alike, just as all gay men think exactly alike.

Apparently she impulsively cut it in December 1965 and the Peyton Place writers had to scramble to work it into the story.

R12. That’s why I’ve always liked Ava.

Yeah, didn't Frank divorce her because she refused to quit Rosemary's Baby?

R16 Yes. She was supposed to be his female lead in The Detective and RB was running over schedule and he said if she did not keep to schedule for The Detective (which he could have changed) he would serve her papers—and he did.

OP Victoria Vetri was a Playmate and used her real name (Angela Dorian) for Rosemary. She had done some film and television appearances, hence the inside joke/convo in the laundry room “you look like the actress Victoria Vetri.” Angela/Victoria had some rough later years.

I thought Rosemary cut her hair short in the book.

Rosemary’s Baby is a near perfect film. I don’t know what NBC thought they were capturing with that miniseries a few years ago but they didn’t get it. This 1968 film is so perfectly done in pace and atmosphere. I also miss long scenes in cinema which I think the contemporary greats like Tarantino and Peele still capture well.

A weird part of the movie for me is when Grace Cardiff, who identifies herself as "Hutch's friend," shows up at Hitch's funeral to give Rosemary the copy of "All of Them Witches" ("I'm supposed to tell you the name is an anagram"). Is she supposed to have been Hutch's lover?

I always assumed that Hutch was gay.

Har hair was short throughout production. She wore a wig in the first half.

R18 I didn't realize that was her real name. Funny. I was just aware that it was different from the actress named in the book, Anna Maria Alberghetti.

The producers could get the rights to use the Anna Maria Alberghetti® name in the movie...

Cheap bitch was too busy pushing "Good Seasons Salad Dressings"

Did that old dyke Laura-Louise molest Rosemary?

Oh, my goodness! Ah, it looks so much brighter.

What do you pay for a chair like that?

In Mia’s autobiography, she said the actor playing Satan in the dream sequence went fangurl after the rape and told her how much he admired her as an actress.

...so Satan turned out to be a big fan of mine; well actually, he was close to Woody, but he was polite to me.

R21 No. Hutch was just one of those storied NYC characters who had a lot of interests and knew a lot of people from a long life and a gregarious personality.

PS: I met my very young (25?) and pregnant friend a few year ago in December at Rockefeller Center and told her I felt like Hutch in Rosemary’s Baby—only I showed up!

Good lord. Just read on Wikipedia that Patty Duke was one of the actresses considered for the Rosemary role. I love me some Patty Duke, and I cannot stand Mia Farrow, but thank god Mia was cast. She was phenomenal in this. We'd all be belting out campy Rosemary Woodhouse lines if Neely O'Hara had been in the movie. It also states that Robert Redford was the first choice for Guy -- another huge casting phew! Redford was also the first actor considered for The Graduate. How many other movies did Redford almost ruin?

R28 Speaking of the devil... Nice tidbit (and pic).

R24 Thanks for reminding me of the name in the actress in the po book. Last night I began looking for my old paperback copy of the book because I could not recall the actress Ira Levin had used but I could not find it easily so gave up.

I also wanted to look up R19 because I do not recall the details. Were they the same in the novel? Did she mention Vidal Sassoon, another salon, or no salon at all?

R31 I think Polanski also wanted Sharon Tate but she did not have the buzz (famous parents, Peyton Place, Sinatra) that Farrow had.

R20 It was a near perfect film. It still holds up save for the satan costume which my much younger husband rolls his eyes at. Polanski elevated the material and it is a miracle that Robert Evans convinced cheesemeister William Castle (who had the film rights) to give up any creative involvement.

Castle (a la Hitchcock, albeit extended) is the menacing man outside the phone booth when Rosemary is flipping out at the end. (Best use of a phone booth since The Birds.)

Has anyone ever read (or even heard of) the Ira Levin sequel published in 1997? Cheesy as shit, and dedicated to Mia.

SON OF ROSEMARY.

R34 No. I read Rosemary, Stepford, Boys from Brazil, Sliver, and A Kiss Before Dying. I had no idea there was a sequel to Rosemary.

It came and went pretty quickly, but I found my hardcover copy last night. Levin must have been desperate for money. I don't remember anyone ever reviewing it, either. Mainly because it was a piece of shit.

He wrote a pretty cool sci-fi novel in the 70's called "This Perfect Day". I always wondered why it was never made into a film.

Mia's haircut looked great, it really suited her.

The only flaw in the movie is when Rosemary gets that ghostly pallor and the make up people didn’t do her ears. The contrast between her pale face and normal colored ears always pops out to me in that scene with Hutch.

I can't tell ya how encouragin' a thread like this is!

r36 He probably wrote it assuming it would get picked up for film rights. But he had lost his instinct for what audiences wanted by the 1990s. I mean the big satan movie of the late 90s/1997 was Devil's Advocate. The story borrowed from Rosemary to a degree—ambitious guy almost sells his should to the devil...but Keanu was small town and successful while Guy was an ambitious and impatient hustler who sold his wife's uterus to the devil.

Apparently, the abysmal NBC series mentioned on R20 was a package deal (Rosemary's Baby and Son of Rosemary) sold by Levin's literary agent. Perhaps NBC had high hopes it would last a while or more likely Levin's team was attempting to recoup the loss on disappointing sales of "Son of" and told NBC you can't have one without the other.

Nick Cassevetes son directed the classics Face Off and Blow.

Somebody (Peter Straub?) once claimed that people missed the point of SON OF ROSEMARY, which was that it was a send-up of the sequel. Not sure that I buy it.

^ John Woo directed Face/Off

R44 You are right. He is a director though. I guess he only appeared in those films.

According to Mia, Polanski and Cassavetes did not get along during the filming and even came to blows at one point.

Cassavetes found Polanski’s directing style frustrating.

[quote]No. Hutch was just one of those storied NYC characters who had a lot of interests and knew a lot of people from a long life and a gregarious personality.

I could be wrong, but I thought in that book, Guy refers to Hutch as "that old queen" (or something like that). Whatever the case, Hutch was kind of peculiar old bird that took a father-like interest in Rosemary & Guy hated him for it.

R43-That was the problem. Nobody bought the premise OR the book.

Tony Curtis is the voice of Donald Baumgartner, the actor who goes blind. How did THAT happen?

Patty Duke got to play Rosemary Woodhouse in Look What's Happened to Rosemary's Baby.

R49 I'm sure there is an answer to your question, however. My guess is it had something to do with Robert Evans. Let's be happy we did not have to look at him. Would have taken audiences right out of it...speaking of which...

It's a shame they did not use the "Guy and Rosemary go to The Fantastics and see old time movie stars Joan Crawford and flaming Van Johnson in the audience" scene. Although that also would have taken audiences right out of it!

R4 Antisemitic because of Dr. Saperstein? Were there actual allegations? Roman Polanski is Jewish.

Naturally I'm rewatching this now because of this thread (heartfelt thanks, DL and OP). Noticed that Hutch (who is definitely gay--at least I hope so), when reciting the evils of the Bramford while he's cooking dinner for the Woodhouses, mentions an infant who was found dead in the cellar in 1959 (another failed --pre-Terry!--impregnation attempt!). I'll also add here that the dream sequence is beyond brilliant. It's exactly what (my) dreams are like, minus (though sometimes featuring) the all-star cast. Polanski is a genius.

Just learned that Mia Farrow sang that "Lalalalalalalala" theme song. I'm dangerously on the precipice of actually liking this cunt.

I don’t get why DL hates her. I mean you may go a bit crazy too if your husband started fucking the daughter y’all raised. I don’t think Woody is a pedo by no means but he’s weird. And made her weird.

The real star of this film is the Dakota. If it had been filmed anywhere else it would not have had near the impact.

[quote]It's exactly what (my) dreams are like, minus (though sometimes featuring) the all-star cast.

Except that I normally have Jackie and Lee Radziwill in my dreams.

[quote]The real star of this film is the Dakota. If it had been filmed anywhere else it would not have had near the impact.

Although Polanski used the exterior of The Dakota for some of the early scenes - the movie was filmed primarily on a studio soundstage.

I've never watched Farrow in any film aside from this and the collection of films she did with Allen in the '80s and into the '90s. I was impressed by her writing in What Falls Away. So based solely on the above output I think quite highly of her as an actor (and writer,, though I'm not necessarily certain of the veracity of the content of her book it was well done, especially for a celebrity memoir).

Farrow was then, and is now, a twisted cunt.

When I saw this on the big screen when it came out, the scene of the after party mess at their apartment looked shockingly disastrous, unlike on the small screen.

Hutch has 2 daughters that Rosemary meets at the funeral.

Why is eveyone in the coven so old?

R63, irony: the coven is supposed to be the antithesis of threatening or scary, i.e. the expectation of what a witch's coven hoping to create the spawn of satan. It's full of rather ordinary, elderly people.

Laura-Louise scared me to death.

John Cassavetes was well cast; he didn't have a wide range as an actor, but the simmering nastiness was perfect here. He was very handsome, but very short (only two inches taller than Farrow).

R62 Right. Hutch is not gay.

I found it funny that Cassavetes was cast as a struggling actor at nearly 40... no wonder he made a deal with the devil!

...and too bad Betty Bacall wasn't living at The Dakota yet, she could have talked Roman into casting her as witch and making a musical of Rosemary's Baby: "All of Them Witches!"

r61 Guy was so mad about the cigarettes on the floor, he scared me.

I loved how Amanda Bellows from Jeannie was one of Roe's bffs. "Rosemary, Are you seeing that dreamy Dr. Charles Grodin? Rosemary, pain is a sign that something is wrong!" Emmaline Henry definitely deserves an appreciation thread.

R69 She was! She moved to the Dakota in 1961.

I thought Son of Rosemary was interesting. There's some meta stuff in there involving the movie, John Lennon, and the Dakota.

I remember Ro's kid had the same name as he had in the terrible made for tv sequel, Andy. Some elements of Omen 3 in there as well. Andy was a popular politician with a cult like following.

I remember Rosemary getting dragged down to hell. Wild stuff.

"Roast mules."

DoomLA, You mean Bogie's widow was already living at the Dakota and didn't come over to console Mia after she got served her walking papers from Sinatra? It could have been a bonding moment!

Anna Maria Alberghetti in a taxi honey.

R73, Miss Bacall was enjoying Sinatra’s Italian sausage when Mia was still in grammar school.

R72 She did end up naming him Andy? As in “little Andy or Susan.” Andy just does not have a Satan vibe to it, but “let the mother” have this, and all.

R75- I'm glad Mia graduated from grammar school before her duties as Mrs. Chairman of the Board...

R73 That would have been epic!

R3 - The devil made her do it.

I posted this earlier, but I was surprised to learn that Ruth Gordon could be pretty mean and harsh in real life.

Friends of mine attended an acting seminar for aspiring performers. Invited as a guest speaker by the actor leading the workshop, she basically told the class to forget about acting. In a Q&A session, she’d respond with her own question, as “You want to act? YOU? Ugh you can forrrrget-about-it” she’d sigh, waving her hand forward as if pushing something invisible away.

But I knew several of the participants in that session, and she was probably right. At that time, there was a cottage industry of acting classes and workshops for aspiring performers in NYC, advertised in a publication called Backstage and maybe The Village Voice.

I still admire Gordon’s performance in Rosemary’s Baby, and also in “What Ever Happened to Aunt Alice?”. Geraldine Page plays the best character in that campy thriller, a pretentious broke psychohag who hires and kills companions for their “nest egg” savings. Niiiice. Robert Aldrich was so cool.

What if Rosemary's baby had been a girl?

Force the devil to confront his gender bias, huh?

R73, Bacall did write in “By Myself” that she, Frank and Mia attended Truman Capote’s Black and White Ball in 1966, but there was no interaction.

[quote]Rosemary's Baby questions

Does anyone have Minnie Castevet's cake recipe?

R83, Did it have a chalky aftertaste like the mousse?

Lauren Bacall must have been just furious seeing Mia coming in and out of the Dakota for months during filming.

Why does Guy act so furtive and shifty in the opening scenes, lying about everything to the Landlord? And Cassavetes has a naturally dark and spooky face- is that why he was cast?

It's for this reason that I believe Polanski wanted the viewer to think Guy was in on it from the start.

[quote]Why does Guy act so furtive and shifty in the opening scenes, lying about everything to the Landlord?

I interpretted this as Guy being homophobic to the effeminate and enthusiastic Bramford representative who showed them the apartment.

He was trying to make Rosemary laugh, but he also seemed to be mocking the poor guy.

Just as Guy does later when he's lying in bed, and he imitates the Bramford rep by saying, "This used to be a 10 that's now a 4," moving his hands and using a fake effeminate voice.

^ I always thought it was to establish from the beginning what a dodgy person Guy is, but also that Rosemary is like a child in that relationship. She really has no voice at that point.

^ your interpretation may vary

OK. Son Of Rosemary. ROAST MULES has been driving me nuts since I first read the book. Could someone please explain what it means?

^^The name is an anagram

R82 Were guests announced as they arrived? Were you permitted to remove your mask at all under any circumstance? Perhaps to give some quick head?

I imagine Bacall would have been smoking like a chimney and indulging in loud throaty chortling all evening so she would have been easy to identify.

R90, this is an interesting read --

That movie about Rosie's baby was just fucking hysterical.

Did Rosie O'Donnell ever give biological birth to a baby? I could see that child winding up being the Son of Satan.

R64 the senior coven members esp Ruth Gordon provide the comic relief

[quote] The real star of this film is the Dakota.

No, the real star of the film is Roman Polanski. A genius filmmaker, even if he had to shoot the film in Madagascar it would have been a masterpiece.

R92, Bacall spent most of the evening dancing with Jerome Robbins, maskless.

Many removed their masks as the evening progressed, but then the majority of them only covered their eyes so guests were easily identified.

[quote]Did Rosie O'Donnell ever give biological birth to a baby? I could see that child winding up being the Son of Satan.

Now that would be a movie to watch: Rosie, just thinking she's constipated from all that extra large hoagie she consumed, gives birth to a baby (and five pounds of poo) she names Rex, who unknown to her, is the son of Satan. Rex tries to mix things up in the O'Donnell household, but there's so much chaos, slamming doors, screaming fights, ham sandwiches thrown against the wall, that no one notices. Satan realizes this was a mistake - he should've stuck to dimwitted actresses - but now it's too late. What's an evil spirit to do?

99 posts and no mention of the made for TV movie LOOK WHAT'S HAPPENED TO ROSEMARY'S BABY??!! How could this 1978 gem have failed, with a cast like this? DL fave PATTY DUKE as Rosemary (!), George Maharis as Guy, RUTH GORDON reprising her role as Minnie, but now with Ray Milland as Roman; and Tina Louise as "Marjean", the proprietress of a Southern brothel who adopts "Andy/Adrian" (Stephen McHattie).

Ira Levin actually wrote the teleplay, and Sam O'Steen, who was actually Polanski's editor on the original film, directed this. Apparently Patty is only in it for a few minutes, until she gets on some bus and vanishes...

Someone should make an assembled superheroes-like movie but with Satan’s spawn—Andy, Damien, etc.

[quote]the senior coven members esp Ruth Gordon provide the comic relief

Including Aunt Bea's friend, Clara Edwards from Mayberry!

This coven was thorough, they had Teri to impregnate and still bumped off the old lady so that Ro and Guy could be on deck just in case. They also seemed to be specifically after a Catholic mother. I haven't read the book, which could lend clarity to these points.

[quote]the senior coven members esp Ruth Gordon provide the comic relief

What's the point of worshipping the Devil if you're just going to be like every other yenta hanging out the department store? Maybe the Devil Worshippers in RB were sort of like MAGA: individually very lame, but there is power in numbers. I also always wondered if the Asian guy taking the pictures realized he was in a witches coven or just wanted to hang out with non- Asian types

They didn't kill the old woman in the apartment next door to the Castevets (Mrs. Gardenia) in order specifically to bring in Guy and Rosemary; that was just a happy accident that Rosemary was suitable once Terri failed them. They killed her because she wanted to break away from the coven ("I can no longer associate myself with...") when she realized the enormity of what they were planning, and they didn't want their schemes blown.

R98, Frank and Mia at Truman Capote’s Black and White Ball.

Patsy “Laura Louise” Kelly and Tallulah were lovers for years.

Wow. Even a Rosemary's Baby thread gets turned into a Donald Trump thread. What is wrong with people like that?

[quote]Patsy “Laura Louise” Kelly and Tallulah were lovers for years.

And contrary to some, Patsy was a DIVINE lovah - her cock was even bigger than mine!

^ Yeah, we've seen them making out at some of Bea Benederet's parties.

The movie is perfection. It’s as fresh and watchable today.

The years around this movie were such a weird time, a year after it’s release the Manson murders happened, Woodstock, moon landing, RFK and MLK assassinations

R81, see R53. Maybe baby girls were simply discarded.

And are we to assume that satan fathers only one child?

I loved that book, R37!

I thought the Castavets pushed the other girl out the window. But it's been a long time since I saw the movie last. Were they out at the time it happened?

"She was! She moved to the Dakota in 1961."

There have long been rumors of the about the Dakota being haunted, long before Rosemary's Baby.

R114- Pbbtt! Rumors of the Dakota being haunted.

^ Guy Woodhouse, eyeing a particularly good part, and needing to keep his wife Ro clueless.

😆. But Honey, he sure was purdy.

[quote] I thought the Castavets pushed the other girl out the window. But it's been a long time since I saw the movie last. Were they out at the time it happened?

Yes. They've gone out for a walk in the city, and they return to find a crowd and policemen gathered around Terri's corpse outside the Bramford. She jumped while they were out.

R97 The real star is Mia Farrow who's in every scene and gives an iconic performance. The entire film is told from her point of view.

R104, I think the age of the coven makes a mocking point about religion in general: even Satanic rituals become boring; only old people want to go to the meetings. And, just like any minister’s wife, Minnie regularly berates her husband about being ineffective.

[quote]Rosemary's Baby questions

He's a baby for fuck's sake.

[quote] They didn't kill the old woman in the apartment next door to the Castevets (Mrs. Gardenia) in order specifically to bring in Guy and Rosemary; that was just a happy accident.

I’ll tell you who that Mrs. Gardenia was. She was a Charlie Nobody. That’s who she was and that’s why they killed her.

[quote] Bacall spent most of the evening dancing with Jerome Robbins, maskless.

Who was leading whom?

I always assumed that they pushed Terri and they came out the side entrance and made it appear as if they were out taking a walk so they would not be suspected.

[Quote]They didn't kill the old woman in the apartment next door to the Castevets (Mrs. Gardenia) in order specifically to bring in Guy and Rosemary; that was just a happy accident.

No, they apparently put her in a coma because she was going to leave the coven I believe. When Guy and Rosemary are looking at the apartment there is a letter that Rosemary glances at that reads 'I can no longer associate . . .'

I see what you did there R122. I'm the 'Charlie nobody'

[quote] No, they apparently put her in a coma because she was going to leave the coven I believe. When Guy and Rosemary are looking at the apartment there is a letter that Rosemary glances at that reads 'I can no longer associate . . .'

You didn't read my whole response, did you? I said exactly that in the later part of it.

I love the housewarming party scene. Guy and Ro had such an eclectic group of friends. Loved the two hotties smoking weed in the bedroom when the guy wearing a fur coat and makeup walks in. I always assumed Rosemary worked in fashion or decorating but curious how they managed to live off Guy's royalties from his commercials.

[quote] I love the housewarming party scene. Guy and Ro had such an eclectic group of friends.

Including Dr. Bellowes's wife from "I Dream of Jeannie"!

Here's a good link to questions about the movie people have asked over the years on imdb, with some very intelligent answers.

There's a particularly intelligent and detailed answer as to how the Woodhouses can afford the apartment in the Bramford: on one hand, the apartment seems to have been rent controlled during the decades Mrs. Gardenia lived there and the dialogue says it has only slightly had the rent raised after her death; also, Guy seems to be paying more for it than he can really afford, but he was recently paid $18K for the Yamaha commercial, which was a lot of money in the mid 1960s. The fact no other money is then incoming makes him even more desperate for the part he steals from Donald Baumgartner.

There's no clear answer to some of the questions apparently. Some people think Terry commits suicide after Roman tells her his plans, but other people are convinced the coven killed her when she freaked out and covered it up. (It would have been very hard for the Castevets, especially as elderly people, to have made it all the way downstairs to a side entrance and then pretended to walk to the building in the minutes between when her body is discovered and they come across it, however--plus they were dressed for walking outdoors in cold weather).

It's also never clear how Mrs. Gardenia moved the heavy secretary, although some people think it was done after her death by the members of the coven to hide the connection between her apartment and the Castevets'. But she also could have hired men to do it for her to keep the Castevets away (although apparently they didn't need to be physically near her to put their spell on her--they just needed an object close to her person to make that work).

[quote] curious how they managed to live off Guy's royalties from his commercials

The swinging world of Yamaha pays big.

Isn't there a theory that the whole thing is in Rosemary's head and we're watching her break from reality?

R100, meet R50.

R76 Ohhh yeah I forgot about that line. That's why he's Andy in the terrible made for tv sequel with Patty Duke Astin, as well as Ira Levin's book.

I honestly think critics missed the boat on Son of Rosemary. I found it, while not nearly as good as the original, very interesting and enjoyable. Spoilers below.

Rosemary has been in a coma for 27 years (I know) and suddenly wakes up in 1999 and slowly realizes that her son is a man who's been all over television. A powerful, charismatic cult leader with a worldwide following. But he has a sinister plan involving new years eve and the dawn of the new millenium.

There's some wild incestuous stuff. And Rosemary slowly catches on to what's really happening. Eventually, there's an epic battle, and Rosemary gets dragged to hell. Then, she wakes up next to Guy in 1965.

Rosemary (at first) assumes she's dreamed the entire two books. But later, Hutch says "Roast mules" which was a recurring phrase during the "son of" section. Rosemary and the reader are left to wonder if she's been doomed by Andy to relive this horror over and over again. The answer is left ambiguous.

There's a few things in the text that provide clues. Rosemary is described by the Imagine mosaic in Central Park. If Rosemary had been dreaming the whole thing in 1965, she would have no idea that there was any mosaic of that sort in Central Park. After she wakes up, Hutch suggests The Dakota to her, and says "there's rumors one of the Beatles may move in."

A fasconating read, particularly during the pandemic, which should clue you in to what Andy's plan involved.

"roast mules" is an anagram of "somersault," "a world any five-year-old would know."

*word, not "world"

R135 Yes, I think that plays into the notion of Rosemary being stuck in a loop, rather than her having dreamed the whole thing.

[Quote] Wow. Even a Rosemary's Baby thread gets turned into a Donald Trump thread. What is wrong with people like that?

They have allowed Trump to live in their head rent free for too long.

I am so sick of Donald Trump references.

Mia Farrow was the mystery guest on What's My Line and her husband Frank was on the panel.

[Quote] I am so sick of Donald Trump references.

It's the reason I stopped watching the #latenitesowhite shows with Jimmy Kimmel, Seth Meyers . . .years ago

R139 Translation: "I'm a Trump supporter who gets more and more embarrassed by it the more people talk about his insane criminal behavior. Please stop making me rationalize supporting him by not talking about him. Let me support him in ignorance."

R142 👏 👏 👏

"It's also never clear how Mrs. Gardenia moved that heavy secretary"

Ri42 or maybe like me tired of a number of people who seem to drag his irrelevant ass into every thread and conversation/

1968 was quite a year for Maurice Evans.

He had both Rosemary and Dr. Zaius in Planet of the Apes. 2 iconic films.

I think the coven all being elderly is a plot device. If they had young female members one of them could be impregnated and they wouldn't need Rosemary.

It’s funny how because Ruth Gordon played a few Jewish roles people think she was Jewish.

r146, don't forget he was also still playing Maurice on "Bewitched"!

[Quote] 1968 was quite a year for Maurice Evans.

it was quite a year for film as well. Besides Planet of the Apes and Rosemary's Baby there was John Cassavetes' Faces, 2001: A Space Odyssey, The Producers, The Killing of Sister George, Petulia, The Night of the Living Dead, Pretty Poison, Rachel, Rachel, Bullitt, Yellow Submarine, Godard's Weekend, Bergman's Shame

The film's theme music got a fabulous new arrangement for the documentary on Polanski.

Always liked Gordon's Oscar speech

A few months after "Rosemary's Baby" was released, the composer Krzysztof Komeda had a bad fall:

"Roman Polanski mentioned in his memoirs that as a result of friendly rough-and-tumble with the writer Marek Hlasko at a Hollywood party , Komeda fell down and suffered head injuries. After months of medical treatment in a US hospital, Komeda was transported home to Poland in a coma and in a terminal state. He died in April 1969, aged 37. Hlasko himself died just two months later, aged 35."

Then two months after that, in August 1969, Helter Skelter...

Photo of Hlasko and Komeda

[quote]I think the coven all being elderly is a plot device. If they had young female members one of them could be impregnated and they wouldn't need Rosemary.

No doubt, though even if Laura Louise didn't have rusty plumbing, I still don't think she'd have been chosen.

R152. That was her fifth nomination. She had been up for an Oscar 4 times before for best screenplay / story. She and her husband were top-notch film writers.

R152 I enjoyed that interesting clip. R155 You can tell she was a writer from the brevity of her speech. Her language is pretty precise and expressive, and funny.

I think she was part of a group of writers who sometimes “punched up” scripts in addition to crafting their own. I think Anita Loos was a similar presence in the industry, possibly Dorothy Parker, too.

Mia was robbed of an Oscar nomination. Like Leigh in GWTW and Garland in WOZ the movie would not have been the same without her. It was perfect casting.

R147 Age and elderly characters in this and in Polanski’s MacBeth were really cleverly integrated into the plot. These elderly characters were given really sharp, “clipped” lines and filmed up close in harsh, garish lighting, and even through distorted lenses (the peephole image if Gordon in the hallway is pretty iconic). The muffled sounds of their voices chanting sets Rosemary into this atmosphere of quiet dread. It “crescendos” in the scenes where she’s chased through the building and jumps out of that creepy old elevator (the musical score blaring horns - all the elements to frighten and concern the audience). It’s all so good.

Nudity, too, was used in a pretty shocking way. In MacBeth and in Rosemary’s Baby, we see the witches naked, and it’s almost like Polanski tapping into any discomfort to frighten and engage his viewer.

Laura-Louise, in particular, is both comical and menacing, making childlike faces when chastised (she sticks out her tongue at Rosemary when Roman scolds her in his creepy paternalistic voice), but she’s also gruff and harsh when she blurts “and stop with the ‘oh Gods’ or we’ll kill ya RIGHT NOW!”.

Polanski pretty much distilled every fear a viewer could have about strangers, sex and faith and distilled them into characters, sounds, imagery. It’s pretty masterful. His film The Tenant is another subversive gem, with Shelly Winters as the nosy concierge. Grand Guignol.

R157, Mia being denied a deserved Oscar nomination shows how much power Frank Sinatra had in Hollywood then.

The Academy members, then mostly middle aged and elderly, did not dare anger the Chairman of the Board, who was furious with Mia for not quitting “Rosemary’s Baby” and was divorcing her.

R145 nah, it's what I said. I imagine you're a supporter too. Go away.

It's always such a surprise to see Charles Grodin turn up in the film. It almost seems now like an intentionally funny cameo. He truly is forgotten as an actor, isn't he? People under 60 would have no idea who he was.

Here's something I've always wondered: Are the books about witchcraft in the movie actual books? Has anyone here read them?

[quote]Rosemary's Baby questions

What did Keith Kennedy and Pearl Ames do at The Bramford?

[quote] What did Keith Kennedy and Pearl Ames do at The Bramford?

The lambada, Rose.

It was the forbidden dance, yet they dared to do it.

R161 The first time I saw the movie, I was SHOCKED and upset by his betrayal of Rosemary. It really worked on me.

Is Dr. Hill supposed to be in the coven or just a young doctor not wanting to alienate the senior Dr. Sapirstein?

R166, The latter.

Ruth looked so fucking elegant at the Oscars. That's when an old lady knew how to dress. Tony Curtis. The gayest straight guy ever?

Further to R151 here is the Polanski documentary. The retooled RB theme is from 1.36.

R168, And she walked with such confidence. Early in her career, Ruth had both of her legs broken and reset to correct her being born bow legged.

Correction: of her 5 nominations, three were for writing and two for acting.

The whole story is a feminist allegory as Rosemary transforms from meek and dominated to strong and independent.

I saw the movie for the first time on network TV when I was a kid. The devil rape scene was edited to Mia seeing his eyes and saying 'this is no dream it's really happening '. Years later when I saw it on cable I was shocked.

No R160 you talk about nothing else and he and your comments are irrelevant to this thread

Loved Komeda's score for Polanski's Knife in the Water

[Quote] I thought the Castavets pushed the other girl out the window. But it's been a long time since I saw the movie last. Were they out at the time it happened?

What other girl? There was only Terry was the only girl who was splattered across the pavement

[Quote] Is Dr. Hill supposed to be in the coven or just a young doctor not wanting to alienate the senior Dr. Sapirstein?

Absolutely not! Why would the Castavets be so eager to have Rosemary see Dr. Saperstein instead and why would be Guy furious that Rosemary wants a second opinion? Also, if a woman walked into a doctor's office and told the tale Rosemary did . . .

love this modern trailer

xxxx

Rosemary's baby's due date: June 1966

Hmmm...I have posts 174-178 blocked. Who could it be?

R181 stunning and brave. Mom must be so proud! Your posts are so informative!

Love that Rosemary is no fool or a damsel in distress. She notices everything including paintings that have been taken off the wall when she and Guy have dinner with Minnie and Roman the first time. At times she's one step ahead of Guy and the cult. She's bright but she was also clearly raised to be a good Catholic girl who is seen and not heard.

Terry is the other girl, R176. I just couldn't think of her name.

[quote]I saw the movie for the first time on network TV when I was a kid. The devil rape scene was edited to Mia seeing his eyes and saying 'this is no dream it's really happening '. Years later when I saw it on cable I was shocked.

I know, same.

And I couldn't believe they were able to get Jackie Kennedy to appear in that controversial scene.

[Quote] The whole story is a feminist allegory as Rosemary transforms from meek and dominated to strong and independent.

Renata Adler film critic for the NY Times thought it was a lapsed Catholic's descent into hell. "It so hot people are actually dying" -Mrs. Gilmore

I always found it strange that when Guy and Rosemary see Terry's body on the sidewalk Guy says to the police officer 'We know her' yet he never met her. Perhaps there was a scene where they met that didn't make the final edit.

Rosemary met her in the laundry room and told Guy

but would he know her by sight R188? and when did she tell him? or is that assumed?

[quote]Renata Adler film critic for the NY Times thought it was a lapsed Catholic's descent into hell.

The author's name, Ira Levin, doesn't scream "Catholic."

R187. I always assumed that Guy and Terry met, too. Then Rosemary tells Minnie she only had one conversation with Terry in the laundry room which indicates they only met once.

R190 screaming queen

For R181

[quote] And I couldn't believe they were able to get Jackie Kennedy to appear in that controversial scene.

She only agreed to do it when she was told that Mia Farrow's body double's nipples would also make an appearance in the scene. Then she couldn't resist.

Was a body double used for the rape scene or was it Mia? I’m thinking Frank would not like her doing that scene. Maybe he was already done with her at that point.

One of the things I find so fascinating about the dream sequence is that the actress who plays Jackie Kennedy uses the same ridiculously fake breathy voice Jackie used in her TV appearances, because back then most Americans (like Rosemary) would have had no idea Jackie didn't really sound like that in real life.

R190 btw Rosemary is a fictional character not based on Ira Levin himself. In her drugged dream state Rosemary asks Isn't Hutch coming? the reply: Sorry Catholics only.

Is it a body double in the nudie scenes? Looks like it to me.

R174 I didn't bring up Trump in this thread. I just commented on the whiney, right wing moron who was triggered to see his hero insulted.

Go fuck yourself MAGA scumbag. You're honestly not welcome here. You are human garbage.

but you have certainly gone on about it now haven't you R199? Can't get him out of your mind it seems. Why are INCELs so focused on Trump?

r199, no one appointed you hall monitor.

A question that can't be answered definitively What were those pills D. Saperstein prescribed? The ones Rosemary referred to as 'monsters' and that he pockets when he and Guy leave Dr. Hill's office.

My guess is that they were tranquilizers or anti-psychotic meds to keep her docile and out of it.

Too bad she didn't show them to Dr. Hill

[Quote] no one appointed you hall monitor.

There's quite a bit of Catholic iconography in the film.

There was a lot of Catholic imagery in The Exorcist, too. Did that make it an allegory of Christ and of faith?! Did it?

R202. Which would explain why she walks into traffic on 5th Ave on her way to the bookstore. And Mia actually walked into traffic with Polanski filming with a hand held. He told her no one would hit a pregnant woman. And, luckily, he was right.

Not luckily.

I'd say it's one of the themes of the film. R205

Rosemary, Guy and the Castavets have a discussion about the Pope and religion and Rosemary says she was raised Catholic but isn't sure now.

When she is 'bitten by the mouse' she dreams of a figure who looks like the Pope and kisses his ring.

In that sequence when she is being carried through the closet that connects both apartments, she has a vision of the ceiling of the Sistene Chapel.

The plot of Rosemary's baby mirrors the Biblical account of Christ's birth. Minnie says he chose you out of all the women in the world.

The screenplay has several layers of meaning.

Go back to playing You Will Die Here Tonight

I was joking.

Judas H Priest!

So funny I forgot to laugh R209

R205 From a poster on the William Friedkin is Dead to me! thread

[Quote] If all you see in the Exorcist are cheap thrills and jump scares, then it's no surprise you dont like it. Fortunately the movie is far more than that and actually a moving character study of a man regaining his lost faith and the power of selfless love.

Jesus—gee, I missed that 👀🫨

Polanski probably has some bitterness.

R147 I love your mind.

R172 I don't see Rosemary as becoming a feminist allegory because 'Rosemary transforms from meek and dominated to strong and independent'. as she finally submits to the cults agenda, she is their pawn, falling into the hands of a cult that used her by manipulating her with her maternal love for her baby.

Anna Maria Alberghetti was an opera singer. Interesting the sequel used that name. She was born May 15, 1936 is an Italian-American actress and soprano and was in the Fantastics in 1968.

When Rosemary and Terry were talking down in that creepy basement laundry room WHAT paranormal entity made the crash?

I saw somewhere one of the actors said I think to Mia, 'no good will come from all this chanting 'hail Satan'. I know I would not be comfortable with that.

According to actor William Castle, who played a bit part in the film, the film was cursed, and he cited the murder of Sharon Tate and personal health afflictions he suffered as evidence.

"The iconic phone booth scene shows Rosemary calling Dr. Hill on the rotary phone whilst mouthing a series of numbers. Eagle-eyed fans were able to discern these numbers as four, three, seven, seven, which seems harmless enough, until one takes a closer look.

When flipped upside down, the numbers spell out the word "Hell," which is another nod towards Roman Polanski's strong directorial eye and a desire to implant little Easter eggs into the story for fans to uncover".

When Ruth Gordon is eating in one scene she puts a forkful of food into her mouth and turns it to the right, to show gluttony, one of the seven deadly sins. I always thought she did it on purpose to make herself look like she became a satanic worshipper for all the material gains, living in the expensive and beautiful Bramford, good food, ect. I read she did do that on purpose. I think that is the point of the whole coven. Average people who have a greed for material things and would sell their souls to the devil to attain them.

It's really one of my favorite movies.

Cukoo!

the angry INCEL at R199 has worn out the letters M-A-G-T-R-U-P-B-O-I-S on their keyboard

The film adaptation is one fhte closest adapations of a novel in film history (Polanski added almost nothing, except the slight change from the end of the novel where Rosemary successfully insists the baby be named "Andrew"--the name she had chosen for him while pregnant--rather than "Adrian," the name of Roman's father). But one of the few things that could't make it into the screenplay is the background material we find out about Rosemary grwoing up catholic in Omaha. She was from a big family, and her mother (maybe both parents?) were shocked when she fell away from the Church. So much of the book involves her guilt over lapsing. And by the novel's end, we learn that one of the reasons she decide to raise the baby and nurse it (and not grab it and jump with it out the Castevets's window) is because "surely the Pope and all those cardinals in Rome" could one day figure out how to deal with the problem of Andrew's existence even if Rosemary herself can't.

How does turning aforkful of food to the right show gluttony?

R219 She is eating in a grotesque way. Pig-like. Hard to express, I'm searching for the words. It's not about the turning direction, it's about the abandonment of refinement, a hurried, indelicate, unrestrained self-indulgence in the behavior. Shoves the cake in her mouth grossly revealing a side of herself you don't see in her practiced well mannered social interactions. The hidden inner self comes out. Her excessive greed for fleshly appetites. Cake is left on her face and on her lips as she goes along. Gordon I'm sure makes ugly crude expressions through all this scene as she is eating forcefully. Chewing, talks with her mouth open, full of cake half shown in her mouth. Puts her elbow on the table, a well known breach of table etiquette to show her lack of consideration for her guests. Scarfing her cake down like an animal she cuts another piece again for herself, quickly. Cutting Guy a piece she lifts it to his plate with the same fork she has just had in her own mouth. She doesn't want to let that fork down for a minute and interrupt the mad frenzy in which she is eating. Rosemary sits across from her delicately eating her cake, btw. She behaves in a ladylike way, showing restraint. This I think perhaps contrasts what is going on at the table across from her. It is not a big apparent scene but if you are raised with manners at the table as evidently Rosemary is it is glaring. Rosemary does not finish but a bite or two of her cake and demurely puts her hands down in her lap and I've always wondered if this is because Minnie has disgusted her with this behavior. She has lost her appetite? The table scene with Minnie is not just about eating. I do think Gordon as Minnie is showing us Minnie has long left restraint, has gotten what she wants for a long time, due to her service to the devil and the power she has gained from it. She has shown herself and is capable of darker things and it's telling.

(^.^) she eats really fast and talks with her mouth full

I love that cake scene. And found it every realistic the way seconds for dessert are being served while a conversation carries on.

Rosemary and Andrew circa 1972.

Guy points to a calendar date late in June for the ideal date of birth. But then she goes into labor prematurely (06/06/06?).

^ maybe 06/06/1966, but I doubt he was born in 2006

(^.^) June 1966 is 666

Interesting. I was wondering why a 1968 film was set in 1966.

How do you pronounce Maurice Evans? Is it Morris Evans?

No, she jumped because she suddenly remembered she needed something on the sidewalk, Rose.

Don't be snide r229. She may have just jumped because they told her of their plan.

Ugh, are you new here, dearheart?

For R1, bitchery is more important than logic.

R224, Guy is watching Pope Paul VI at Yankee Stadium on the television and that was October 4, 1965.

Here’s a question. Why did they tolerate Laura Louise? What was she good for?

^^CLIT LICKING!

Rosemary and Guy hear Roman and Minnie's muffled voices arguing and you can hear Minnie say I TOLD YOU NOT TO TELL HER (meaning Terry) AND SHE WOULDN'T BE OPEN TO IT. The next scene is Terry dead on the sidewalk.

[Quote]Here’s a question. Why did they tolerate Laura Louise? What was she good for?

babysitting and a few laughs

R220 Great analysis. I've seen that scene 100 times, and have always realized there was a contrast dynamic between Rosemary and Millie, and it was conveying importotant information about both of them. Almost on a subconscious level.

Isn't that was a great movie does? Gives us information visually that can't always be put into words?

“Millie”

Oh, dear.

Thoroughly Modern Minnie

R232 the Is God Dead issue of time in the doctor's waiting room is dated April 8, 1966.

R238 auto correct.

R228 Yes.

Rosemary's baby was conceived October 4, 1965. That was the day Pope Paul VI conducted a mass in Yankee Stadium and the night they plan to conceive. That makes the due date June 26, 1966, I don't recall exactly, but I think she went into labor early - 6/6/66 but I can't swear to it.

They don't say in the movie what date the kid is born.

It is implied that she goes into labor early brought on by her fighting to get away from the coven.

Saperstein tells her that she caused the baby's death with her antics and that if they had been in a hospital he could have saved the baby. (then she hears the baby crying.....)

I know the setting of the movie. "THE YEAR ONE!"

[quote] How do you pronounce Maurice Evans? Is it Morris Evans?

Yes, that’s how he pronounced it, unlike his character on Bewitched.

And unlike Chevalier.

How did the Bee Gee brother pronounce it?

Just re-watched this movie. How well it still holds up. I didn't realize that John Cassavetes died relatively young from alcoholism.

R248: Morris. That's how Brits pronounce it. French give the i and e sound.

Interesting contemporary take on RB

From Mia's autobiography, "What Falls Away".

"At Paramount Studios we were falling behind schedule. I appeared in every single scene of the film, except when, during a rape sequence, a body double was used in my place. But I didn’t entirely miss out on the scene: one day I found myself—me from convent school, who prayed with outstretched arms in the predawn light—tied to the four corners of a bed, ringed by elderly, chanting witches. The Pope brought over his big ring for me to kiss, while a perfect stranger with bad skin and vertical pupils was grinding away on top of me. I didn’t dare think. After finishing that scene the actor climbed off me and said politely, in all seriousness, “Miss Farrow, I just want to say, it’s a real pleasure to have worked with you.”"

Ruth Gordon and Woody Allen on the Dick Cavett show. Small world.

I'm not positive but in the very beginning when Rosemary and Guy are being shown the apartment but are just walking through the hall to get to it, and Elisha Cook is leading them through the halls and saying "the previous tenant Mrs. Gardenia passed away just a few days ago so nothing has been moved yet. Her son asked me to say that some of the furniture could be picked up, practically for the asking". When he gets to the part "practically for the asking" the camera now goes to Rosemary and Guy and it looks like Mia is silently mouthing Cooks last words 'practically for the asking' like an actress getting ready for her part next, what one does when just rehearsing, running lines with the other actor and not filming yet. She realizes and stops. Sure enough the next speaking part is Mia saying, "Did she die in the apartment"? I guess you can tell I own the movie and have watched it a few times.

Mia, Roman and Bob Evans recall making the film

I don’t think the haircut was in the script,so they had to say a little something about it. None of them liked it, especially Frank.

R256, Mia tells Rosie @ 5:50 that Sinatra loved her short haircut.

Mia is bitch.

That’s not. Jackie. It’s “Patricia Ann Conway as Mrs. John F. Kennedy”

Or she found out.

BTW, it's Moe-reece Evans.

R260, That’s how Helen Hayes pronounced his name.

[quote] I don’t think the haircut was in the script,so they had to say a little something about it. None of them liked it, especially Frank.

It's in the original novel, and they adapted the novel incredibly faithfully.

Maurice Evans pronounced his first name the British way ("Morris"). They made it a joke on "Bewitched" that his character as Samantha's father had the same name but that it was pronounced instead the American way ("MOH-rees").

I always felt sorry for Sidney Blackmer, because this was his second to last role, and although everyone in Hollywood knew him, he was not as high profile at the time as most of the other elderly actors in the film( Evans, Ruth Gordon, and Ralph Bellamy). He's so excellent in the part--you can tell he's an expert conniver, but that Minnie is more ruthless and brutal.

R263, Sidney Blackmer won a Best Actor Tony Award in1950 for Come Back, Little Sheba.

He was not allowed to repeat his performance in the film because Shirley Booth was not a marquee name, so the studio cast Burt Lancaster in the role of the drunken husband.

Rosemary's sassy cut is also in the Tv remake starring Zoe Saldana.

My bad

This thread made me watch the movie again (I watch it almost annually; to me it’s a perfect film.)

I love the acting, the music, the script, the glimpses of late 60s Manhattan (I love when Rosemary enters the Time-Life building and walks by the art mural inside; reminds me of when I worked there years ago.)

I’ve seen the movie so many times over the years but never caught that at the end Rosemary is dressed as the Virgin Mary—-blue robe over a white gown. I only read about that a few years ago and was blown away. So many great details.

[quote]I’ve seen the movie so many times over the years but never caught that at the end Rosemary is dressed as the Virgin Mary—-blue robe over a white gown. I only read about that a few years ago and was blown away. So many great details

I didn't realize that; I re-watched it this weekend too & enjoyed the scene of NYC/Time Life Building before Fox News HQ stunk up the neighborhood. I didn't catch a glimpse of the World Trade Center, which The Exorcist caught

The World Trade Center wasnt around until the 70s

The traditional Catholic portraiture of MARY, Mother of God is a blue cloak over a red garment. Just so you know.

Sidney Blackmer also originated a role on Broadway in Sweet Bird of Youth which Ed Begley Sr. got to do on film. Begley won an Oscar for it but in the end Blackmer thanks to Rosemary is more well remembered.

Huh? No one remembers someone named Begley… yet the world still knows Blackmer like the back of their hand?!

You’re silly

No r272. People still watch Rosemary. No one watches any of Begley's films.

Blackmer is more well remembered.

Ok then…you stay in your Baby dream world.

Not saying people remember Blackmer's name but the remember the character and the film.

Begley Sr. is forgotten,.

…except you didn’t say that. Capisce?

Bye👋🏼

I think it’s overstating things to say Begley is forgotten and Blackmer is remembered. Blackmer is mainly known for RB (he did more stage work), whereas Begley appeared in a number of high profile productions, on frequent rotation on TCM and Pluto—Sweet Bird of Youth (his Oscar win) and Twelve Angry Men (which most middle or high school students read and often view). Begley was no slouch on stage, winning a Tony for Inherit the Wind (he did the Fredric March role, based on William Jennings Bryan). Plus people associate him with his adopted son, Ed Begley Jr.

R277, Adopted?

“Begley was born in 1949 in Los Angeles, California, to Allene Jeanne Sanders and Oscar-winning film actor Ed Begley. When Begley Jr. was born, Begley Sr. was married to Amanda Huff, who died when Begley Jr. was 7 years old. Until he was 16, Begley Jr. believed that Huff was his biological mother. He only later became acquainted with Sanders, his biological mother.”

I didn't say that anyone knew Blackmer like the back of their hand either. You did r276

OP it may have been mentioned but Sassoon appears in the party scene in the film

Does anyone have a pattern for little cloven hoof booties?

The other ones I made don't fit his little devil feet...

Go back to sucking gin though a straw, Laura-Louise.

[quote]Go back to sucking gin though a straw, Laura-Louise.

That was mostly during my period...and days that end in a "y".

R280. Holy crap! I had no idea that was Vidal. 'You look like a piece of chalk.'. What a cunty thing to say.

I will say that I can picture Blackmar, but not Begley, Sr. I have a very vague memory of Begley in 12 Angry Men, but a very strong memory of Roman Castavette.

[Quote] Not saying people remember Blackmer's name but the remember the character and the film.

[Quote] Begley Sr. is forgotten.

not for those of us who watched TV in the60s & 70s. I actually recognize Begley and remember him in Wild in the Streets, 12 Angry Men, The Unsinkable Molly Brown and from numerous TV appearances: Bonanza, The Fugitive, The Lucy Show . . .and his Oscar-winning performance in SBOY. Begley was a busy character actor. The name Sydney Blackmer is unknown to me without a specific reference.

This discussion as to whether Sidney Blackmer or Ed Begley Sr. is the better remembered is of such importance, and richly deserves all the space it's getting here!

Blackmer, shlackmer...

Begley, smegley...

It's Ruth Gordon the people remember!

welcome to DL R287

Yeah, R287 It reminds me of the discussion of the name Van on the Airport 1970 thread

[Quote] "Van" is sometimes used as a nickname for men named "Ivan" (like Van Morrison) or "Evan" (like Van Heflin), or who have a middle name or first name that's a Dutch surname with "van" as a prefix (like Van Johnson, whose middle name was "Van Dell").

(^.^) The pot calling the kettle blackmer

Ed Begley was hilarious as the judge on this DVD Show episode.

How does the book describe the way Guy looks? (or does it)

Who is supposed to raise the baby if Rosemary doesn't? The coven members don't look like they have 18 years left for them to do it.

Wasn’t Lucille Ball offered the Rosemary role? Did Gary talk her out of it?

R294 in Ira Levin's sequel, Rosemary wakes up in 1999 after having been in a coma for 33 years. She wakes the moment the last of the coven dies.

The Feud series DL has been dreaming of has finally been announced!

Ed Begley vs. Sidney Blackmer: Battle of the Boss Finleys

[Quote] Who is supposed to raise the baby if Rosemary doesn't? The coven members don't look like they have 18 years left for them to do it.

Rosemary. Roman says be a mother to him you don't have to join. The film's final image is of Rosemary attending to the baby

here's one interpretation of the ending

I haven’t seen the movie in ages, so I have 2 questions: Does Guy offer her womb in exchange for acting roles? Did the Devil attend the party at the end?

R300, what Guy appears to have signed over is his right, which would have been unquestioned at the time, to have sex with and impregnate his wife. No, there’s no Satan at the party, although clearly there are going to be co-parenting issues.

To me, what the ending means is that once Rosemary finally asserts her rights (if not for herself, then at least as the mother of this ghastly kid) it’s going to be curtains for Guy and the rest of them. She’s the mother of the Antichrist; good luck telling her what to do now.

Ed Begley Sr is memorable in his own way (The Unsinkable Molly Brown 1964 - I like him in the pie-throwing scene); it's not a competition between he and Sidney Blackmer.

If you want to compare/contrast the two, look at their respective entries for antichrist/unnatural offspring films - Rosemary's Baby (1968) and The Dunwich Horror (1970). The comparison is uneven; 'Rosemary' is the superior film, while 'Dunwich' is a lower budget knockoff of it.

R299 that "article" is pure garbage that says nothing. Why would you post it?

Let's not forget Rip Torn as Boss Finley in the Elizabeth Taylor-Mark Harmon TV remake of Sweet Bird Of Youth.

I liked Ed Begley in a lot of things - he did a lot of TV, both dramas and comedies (guest spots). He was in a very good heist film, Odds Against Tomorrow, with Harry Belafonte, Robert Ryan, Shelley Winters and Gloria Grahame, directed b Robert Wise. He was n such diverse things as Sitting Pretty with Clifton Webb, and On Dangerous Ground with Ida Lupino and Robert Ryan, directed by Nicholas Ray, and another pretty good film noir, Dark City, with Charlton Heston.

While you’re so fondly recalling the careers of Sidney Blackmer and Ed Begley, you might recall that I was in The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, and Shane, for heaven’s sake. I was also Ice Pick in Magnum PI.

and William Castle's House on Haunted Hill☝️

R306, Elisha Cook Jr was also in Star Trek (Samuel T. Cogley, 'Court Martial')!

I wish they hadn't cut the scene of Laura Louise coming out of the bathroom in the Castavet's apartment and telling Guy, 'I'd wait a few minutes before I'd go in there if I were you.'

R309, Three years after “Rosemary’s Baby”, Patsy Kelly won a Tony for No, No, Nanette.

“Can we come in?”

"Rosemary's Baby" was apparently a real labor of love for William Castle. He loved the original book so much he didn't even volunteer to direct it himself (though he was the producer) because he wanted to hire someone who would do a great job with it, and he knew his talents as a director were not high.

Any set photos of the actor in the devil costume?

^ There are rumors that Patsy Kelly played the devil with minimal makeup...

She had a naturally hairy back and the she loved the idea of scissoring with Mia on camera

Always sounds like Minnie and Roman refer to L-L as LARA-Louise but Mia says Laura-Louise.

"He has his father's eyes" is just so indelible. Right up there with "Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown," "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn," "I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse, "Stellllla," and "Here's looking at you, kid."

All of these I can hear in my head EXACTLY as they were said on screen. Now, and until the day I die, I imagine.

Rosemary finally giving in when she hears the baby cry and deciding to remain a mother to the child ,though she does not have to join the coven, always brings up problems for me. I'm not saying this would not happen, there are some women who would perhaps but for me if I saw my kid had some kind of demonic looking monstrosity with freaky hands and feet, tortured me from inside my womb during the pregnancy, is the devils baby so there's that 🙄 I mean, this all doesn't bode well for a happy 'bringing up baby' experience.

I'd be thinking if he doesn't kill me now he'll kill me later. Torture me for a while maybe, probably kill Guy at some point (and while I'm on the subject of Guy, what becomes of THAT marriage) probably kills the whole coven or if not we all meet in Hell forever.

Not the best deal out there.

I wonder what the original plan for the birth was. They couldn't take her to a hospital. Maybe they would have drugged and taken her to Saperstein's office?

Sapirstein made house calls, R318.

Didn't Anton LeVay play The Devil?

No, R320 - that was an actor named Clay Tanner.

Anton LaVey was a consultant on 'The Devil's Rain' (1975) with William Shatner and Ernest Borgnine. As far as I know, he had no affiliation with the production of 'Rosemary's Baby.'

[Quote] The author's name, Ira Levin, doesn't scream "Catholic."

No it screams 'you go girl!'

R295

Lucille Ball was 55 in 1966. Hardly a candidate to have a baby.

Btw, Properties of Rosemary in witches lore are purification, all-heal, protection, love, lust. I always wondered if Ira Levin chose the name because of the association with witches and their lore.

Also her last name is 'Woodhouse'. Wooden houses burn. I think it was a kind of a hint as to what eventually will happen to Rosemary. Her world as she knows it before all this will be destroyed.

It's decades too late, but an origin story movie on the Castevetes would've been made today, and I'd have watched it.

R324. I think the prequel currently in post production will shed some light. Dianne Wiest as Minnie. Apartment 7A. No release date. Guy and Ro appear in the film at some point. Julie Garner is playing Terry. Can't wait.

More info

[quote]Lucille Ball was 55 in 1966. Hardly a candidate to have a baby.

You've obviously never seen an episode of her TV show, or even one of her movies.

Lucy was wearing Go-Go boots and requiring all the eligible young men to call her "young lady".

Lucy was timeless!

She didn’t jump, she was pushed…..definitely by Laura Louise, and possibly by others in the coven.

Rosemary and Guy have heard Minnie and Roman bickering through their bedroom wall once while they were in bed. They heard a woman (Minnie) say, “It's impossible to be 100%sure! If you want my opinion, we shouldn't tell her! That's my opinion!”

(They had been arguing about whether or not they should tell Terry their plan for her. Obviously, Minnie thought they shouldn’t while Roman must’ve thought they should.)

Rosemary said, “That must be the partition.”

Guy started imitating the real estate agent, “That's the back part of the original 10 with a dining room, and there's...a closet here, and then there's a closet over here…..”

The night Terry died, Rosemary was in a semi-dream state. In her dream she sees a nun pointing to a large window (Terry had gone out the window earlier that evening). The nun is talking, but it’s Minnie Castevet’s voice:

“Sometimes I wonder how come you're the leader of anything!

Don't tell me what Laura-Louise said.

[bold] If you' d listened we wouldn't have had to do this! [/bold]

We' d have been set to go now instead of having to start from scratch!

I told you not to tell her in advance!

I told you she wouldn't be open-minded!”

[italic] “If you’d listened we wouldn’t have had to do this.” [/italic] Do what? Hastily leave the apartment while Laura Louise (and probably other coven members) held Terry, possibly knocking her unconscious. The Castevets were giving themselves an alibi. A few minutes after they left to “go for a walk” Terry was thrown out the window. Then the Castevets came home, pretending to be unaware of what happened.

Ask yourself, if they told her their plan and she was against it, why would they then go out and leave her alone in the apartment? Why wouldn’t Terry just leave once they went out? She didn’t leave because they had to kill her so she wouldn’t tell anyone.

“We wouldn’t have had to do this”

Wow. This is really an amazing reveal for me. I think you’re right!

I always knew they had something to do with it but I thought it was a spell. When the Castavets come walking up 72nd Street to the entrance to ‘The Bram’ and come to the site of Terry’s body and all the police they go into their act. “She got deeply depressed every 3 weeks or so…” as if she had depression related to a menstrual cycle, Minnie saying she was probably cleaning windows, to create an air of innocence.

Gonna have to check it out again!

[quote] Lucille Ball was 55 in 1966. Hardly a candidate to have a baby.

Lucille played a 28 year old in 1974 and she certainly could have had many babies then.

Lucy would have been a wonderful Rosemary, unfortunately, I believe she was attached to The Graduate at the same time and would not have been able to be in the film. Sadly, Anne Bancroft took over after someone behind the scenes advised Lucy against taking the part of a woman so much older. She was also considering taking the Julie Christie part in Don't Look Now, which came out a few years later. What could have been...

Paramount reportedly had a successful test screening of "Apartment 7A," a prequel to "Rosemary’s Baby."

Stars Julia Garner (Ozark) as Terry Gionoffrio and Dianne Wiest as Minnie Castevet.

Mia accused Lucy of "trying, by any means necessary, to steal all of my best roles after I had been cast, from Rosemary to Daisy to Hannah. I had to fight tooth and nail to keep these parts because producers considered Lucy as a huge box office draw in horror, historical drama, and sophisticated comedy."

I had heard about Lucy possibly starring in Don't Look Now as Donald Sutherland confessed he was quite excited at the notion of making love to the comedienne icon.

He told friends, "I get to ball Ball!"

And Roman is the only one who identifies Terry’s handwriting, which could have been anyone’s handwriting.

323. I believe it’s a nod to Jane Austen’s Emma Woodhouse

[quote] Does Guy offer her womb in exchange for acting roles?

Yes. He’s very ambitious. The witches blinded Donald Baumgarten so Guy could get a choice role in a play. That seems to have been the first wish they granted him, showing they had the power to make or break a career. After Rosemary has and “lost” the baby he says to her,

“ “I know this is the worst thing that ever happened to you, but now everything's gonna be roses. Paramount's right where we want them, Universal's interested, and we're gonna blow this town and be in beautiful Beverly with a pool and a spice garden, the whole schmeer, and kids, too, Ro. Scout's honor. You heard what Abe said. Now, I got to run now and get famous.”

Basically, “Eh, it’s just one baby. I’m gonna be famous….and I probably will divorce you.” (The “scout’s honor” was a nice, phony touch)

Remember, Guy was brought up in an orphanage. There were babies everywhere in an orphanage. No shortage. And he had no parents, siblings, extended family. It was ‘every kid for himself.’ He isolated Rosemary from her own family in the book. It’s was “choose me or them.” He makes snide remarks about her family.. I thought of Guy when I heard Robert Durst talk about his murdered wife’s family.

Was it mentioned in the movie that Guy was an orphan? I know Rosemary tells Hutch that Minnie and Roman are “sort of parent figures” for Guy, but I can’t remember if they mention his orphan status.

In the book, Rosemary is from a big Irish catholic family. She hasn’t spoken to them for a while. Her sisters are married and pumping out kids. The day of or the day after the devil rape, Rosemary gets a phone call from one of her sisters, which surprises her. The sister asks Rosemary how she is, because she had a premonition that something bad is happening to Rosemary.

[quote]The sister asks Rosemary how she is, because she had a premonition that something bad is happening to Rosemary.

That would have been a good cameo for Tisa or dear Prudence.

I don’t remember Guy being from an orphanage in either the book or movie but that’s an interesting observation, r338

[quote] Rosemary finally giving in when she hears the baby cry and deciding to remain a mother to the child ,though she does not have to join the coven, always brings up problems for me. I'm not saying this would not happen, there are some women who would perhaps but for me if I saw my kid had some kind of demonic looking monstrosity with freaky hands and feet, tortured me from inside my womb during the pregnancy, is the devils baby so there's that 🙄 I mean, this all doesn't bode well for a happy 'bringing up baby' experience.

The book explains Rosemary's process of thinking here. Rosemary's first thought is to grab the baby and throw herself and him out the window, but then she thinks that she would be better off waiting to take the baby to the Catholic Church eventually and have them deal with it. it also makes clear that she finds the baby sweet despite its eyes and horns and claws.

The thing the book does that is markedly different from the film is that it shows Rosemary insisting when she assumes maternal care of the baby that he be named "Andrew" (the name she decided for him beforehand) rather than "Adrian." The coven abides by her wishes, and this is shown to be her first win over Roman, who really wanted it to be named after his father. You get the sense that Rosemary might eventually be able to fight back even more forcefully someday.

[quote]the Castevetes

I liked this typo.

R338. Wow. Thanks for the backstory on Guy. The movie never mentions he was orphaned or that Ro is estranged from her family. But he does seem to resent Hutch who is very fatherly towards Rosemary.

[quote] I don’t remember Guy being from an orphanage in either the book or movie

Oh wow, I hope I didn’t invent a Mandela effect about the Guy character. I haven’t read the book for a long time. Maybe I misremembered it. I thought that Guy was brought up in an orphanage and that it may have been a Protestant orphanage. At any rate I thought I remembered that Guy was Protestant and was anti-catholic, and Rosemary’s family didn’t like him because of it. I think he was atheist. He believed Catholicism and ultimately all religion was superstitious nonsense. Rosemary thought it was modern of him to feel that way.

I read the book before seeing the movie on tv (too young to see when movie was released in theaters) and I pictured Rosemary in the book as a tall, pretty, sturdy kind of woman who was determined to be a good wife and mother, but she also yearned for modernity. But the women’s movement was in the distant future and she wasn’t a feminist. She would get angry with Guy, but wanted to please him.

I also remember - and could be wrong - that in the book Rosemary and Guy were into fashionable clothes, good labels, the right stylists and had to get the name brand, even for cutlery…they were materialistic and a bit snobby. But again, I associated this with their striving for modernity. And I was very poor as a kid and was used to “making do” with whatever I could get.

I really need to download the book

^I haven't read the book in years, so I can't recall the specifics other than Guy & Rosemary were sharp eyed enough to identify the "homosexuals" in the building, but completely missed the witches coven!

Oh, I caught on fast enough, R346.

You think Rosemary had the coven off Guy after the birth?

R345. Well they certainly had mod, fashionable friends at their housewarming party.

[quote]Lucy would have been a wonderful Rosemary, unfortunately, I believe she was attached to The Graduate at the same time and would not have been able to be in the film. Sadly, Anne Bancroft took over after someone behind the scenes advised Lucy against taking the part of a woman so much older. She was also considering taking the Julie Christie part in Don't Look Now, which came out a few years later. What could have been...

Are you sure? I thought Gary talked her out of it.

[quote]I'm not saying this would not happen, there are some women who would perhaps but for me if I saw my kid had some kind of demonic looking monstrosity with freaky hands and feet, tortured me from inside my womb during the pregnancy, is the devils baby so there's that 🙄 I mean, this all doesn't bode well for a happy 'bringing up baby' experience.

Yeah, right. Like the Gerber baby types are any easier.

The book is a product of its time, referring to the ‘negro elevator boy,” and “negro maids ironing laundry.” The negro man steering the yacht in Rosemary’s dream.

Nowadays it’s a shock to see such racist things. But it was the norm and Levin mentions Rosemary knows the black yachtman hates Rosemary and other whites for their hypocrisy and oppression. Rosemary feels white guilt. That was a big factor in the late 50s to late 60s. Young white people began to realize how badly blacks were being treated and didn’t want to be a part of it, but didn’t know what to do about it.

JFK was assassinated in 1963. Levin write Rosemary’s Baby in 1966. (It was published in 1967) This was only 6 years after the first Roman Catholic was elected president - something seen as extraordinary in those days. It was only 3 years after Kennedy was murdered. It was a different world.

On the anniversary of the Kennedy assassination, the NY Daily News reprinted the newspaper they released after the assassination. I’m pretty sure it was 1993. I bought it. Two things jumped out at me as things I’d forgotten about. One was photos of catholic school students and nuns. So many kids in catholic schools back then, in long-closed down catholic schools. So many nuns wearing the old fashioned wimples and long black robes. Some of the wimples were mind boggling.

The second thing - African Americans were always described as colored. “Jimmy Washington, a colored restaurant worker, was a witness to the robbery.”

There was a Man on the Street Question of the Day, where ordinary citizens were asked their opinion on a current event. (Exactly like The Onion, only real). “Mrs Vanita Johnson, colored: I disagree with the statement because…”

Then I remembered reading the controversy about this in newspapers. People were writing letters to the editor demanding they stop identifying African Americans as “colored” in the newspaper, and demanded they be referred to the same way as white people - which was to not mention skin color at all. Why should African Americans be identified by skin color if whites weren’t?

I’d completely forgotten this whole history. And I think it was pretty late in the game when newspapers stopped doing this. Possibly as late as 1969 -1970.

Before it was controversial, I completely accepted that black people should be identified in newspapers, not giving it a second thought. When it became controversial I thought, “Hey…why do they do that? It’s not right.”

White privilege.

Same with gay people. Two unrelated men living together were ~ giggle ~ [italic] homosexuals [/italic]

Lots of people in this country today want to go even further back than that, to worse things that were done to minorities.

First chapter of Helter Skelter:

About 8 A.M., Winifred Chapman got off the bus at the intersection of Santa Monica and Canyon Drive. [italic] A lightskinned black in her mid-fifties, [/italic] Mrs. Chapman was the housekeeper at 10050 Cielo, and she was upset because, thanks to L.A.'s terrible bus service, she was going to be late to work.

The movie has been on cable quite a bit during the past month and I've watched it several times. There's always something new to discover and it never gets boring. It's a classic and Casevettes never gets enough praise. Handsome, dangerous, charming and makes Guy',s choices believable.

Casevettes and his big dick face and big dick energy was one hell of a morsel to behold. I loved seeing him play off his best friend Peter Falk in a particularly memorable Columbo episode.

[quote]The movie has been on cable quite a bit during the past month and I've watched it several times.

What channel/platform?

The term "negro" is not racist. It just means "black" in Spanish/Italian. The N-word was derived from it and is certainly racist, but negro wasn't and isn't. The United Negro College Fund never felt a need to change their name. Black people wanted to own what they are called. Hence, black, African-American, etc.

As for identifying people as black, (colored, negro, etc) in the news, the default was white, because in 1965, almost 9 in 10 people in the US were white. When another race gets up to say, 30% of the population, they'll start identifying white people as such. White privilege certainly exists, but you diminish its meaning by applying it where it doesn't apply.

And it's exhausting.

Remember the old internet, where - for like 20 years - you could watch any scene from Rosemarys Baby free on YouTube, Vimeo, Daily Motion, etc?

R342

As soon as I hit the post key I realized I had not gone and looked up the way to spell the name correctly. You're lucky I didn't write Castanets. 😆

I love Diane Wiest. Happy to see her in a new movie. She's always good. Be interesting to see her version of Minnie. Man, Ruth Gordon was absolutely fabulous. The little lady was spooky.

Anybody ever been by the Dakota, or IN it!? So well picked and one of the stars of that perfect cast of Rosemary's baby. Even the party guests are right. The Dakota feels ominous, looms over you, said to be haunted. I believe it. Great location for that movie.

R356, Flix has “Rosemary’s Baby” in rotation.

R336 Correct - and he barely looks at the note before quickly declaring "definitely, absolutely" that the handwriting is hers. Done to solidify "suicide" for the police investigation. Minnie tells the cops that Terri had no family. Then her unsettled reaction when Rosemary offers that Terri has a brother. Also the way Minnie looks away after identifying the body. She acts like someone pretending to be upset, as only Ruth Gordon could pull off so well.

Ruth Gordon should have been Oscar nominated for Harold and Maude too. Was she in the running? Speculation she would be?

What does the tannis root do? I thought it was something to create the baby but we find out Sapperstein wears it too.

Yes, she was eligible for an Oscar for "Harold and Maude"; both she and Bud Cort were nominated for Golden Globes (but didn't win). "Harold and Maude" flopped badly at the box office, possibly because of a very limited marketing campaign by Paramount, but gradually gained a cult following at rep theaters over the next few years.

R362, if I remember my mythology correctly, people thought magic potion ingredients would do different things depending on what you mixed with them and what spells you cast.

Yeah, but realistically speaking, there's no such things as 'spells.' They're a form of psy-ops.

If the Satanists want you dead, they'll do something real - like cut your brake lines, or push you out a window.

R365 or steal a glo e to put you in a coma.

“Tannis, anyone?”

^ for the love of OJ, GLOVE!

R366, I'm pretty sure they did something entirely non-metaphysical to put Hutch into a coma. And then followed through to finish him off. They're accomplished poisoners.

Asking newbie Satanist Guy to steal the glove (and obtain his acting competition's tie, wasn't it? or a hat?) was designed to put the fear into Guy (and into Rosemary, once she knew about it). Guy's belief in their supposed supernatural abilities made him easier to control.

R369, now I'm intrigued. Are you going to go with "of course there's really no Satan, Rosemary actually is pathetically unstable, and that baby is just deformed?"

Well, within the film's reality, somebody certainly plowed Rosemary that night, R370, somebody who definitely wasn't Guy. There's all sorts of possibilities there, up to and including it having been a being who's been represented to the cult as 'Satan.' If you've ever read Lovecraft, you know that field is rather open. (But being 'the Devil,' who's supposed to be omnipresent and responsible for all the temptation and evil that happens in the world? Nah. That's as absurd as God hearing everyone's prayers, or Santa visiting every house - 'he's making a list / checking it twice / gonna find out who's naughty and nice'.)

But that's a far cry from the supposed 'magic' the cultists are supposed to be able to work. That's chicanery.

R371 oh come on, the baby had hooves for chrissakes!

R372, did it? I certainly didn't see them, or any part of the baby whatsoever. They showed nothing.

But if it did, what does that prove? The existence of 'the Devil,' as an all-encompassing, omnipresent force of evil? Or parentage of something resembling a satyr, being taken for a devil?

This is why it's an open narrative...and it is fiction after all so why couldn't there be a metaphysical cause?

Because it strains credulity, R374, and because within the narrative as it stands, there's no need for that kind of explanation. Why put a sedative in Rosemary's mousse (which failed, by the way) if you've got magic? Why push Terry out the window when you could supernaturally kill her?

It strains whose credulity? Yours? Clearly, as evidenced by the responses in the thread, not many other people have problems with different readings of the film and interpretation of events that transpired. It's intentionally blurry, this isn't a work of realism. So as important as it may be for you to read and interpret the narrative from a particular perspective, which you have every right to do, it does not make it the only interpretation. Your reading of an 'open narrative' horror film is not the definitive reading nor does it have to be.

R373 I think that was in the book, or maybe I’m dreaming.

Mia did chalky under taste face well.

In the book the baby was described as having hooves, it breathes in a sort of snort and has fetid breath. Polanski knew it would look ridiculous to try to make a baby look like that - he’d need a doll to be made to specifications and it would look fake and stupid. So he only showed animal eyes.

R379 you don't even see his eyes. We THINK we did. Partly from Mia Farrow's brilliant reaction, and partly for the fact that we see a quick flashback to Rosemary's POV the night the devil raped her. But we never do see any part of the baby.

[quote] In the book the baby was described as having hooves, it breathes in a sort of snort and has fetid breath.

None of that is in the book. You're confusing it with something else.

R381, He was confusing it with his last Grindr hookup.

[quote]R376: So as important as it may be for you to read and interpret the narrative from a particular perspective, which you have every right to do, it does not make it the only interpretation.

Nowhere have I said that it was. I'm unsure why you're so threatened by a mere point of view. (Challenging belief in the supernatural often results in histrionics, and tilting at things nobody said.)

But let's explore this idea just a bit, that the baby is seriously deformed. If it's supposed to grow up to be the Antichrist and take over the world, such that everyone worships him, won't its physical handicaps pose an obstacle? Or will it grow out of the hooves as a toddler, the way some babies' blond hair goes brown?

Twilight Zone's Jeff Myrtlebank, newly resurrected from his coffin, wouldn't have gotten far with his nefarious political career if he'd looked like a goat, now would he?

^Well, the current crop of republicans clearly indicates that being fat, ugly & stupid is not a hindrance, so why not hooves? Particularly with the snorting & stank breath, he'd fit right in with Freedom Caucus!

R383, oddly enough, most posters seem to understand that Rosemary's Baby is a work of horror/fantasy. It is fiction. No one is claiming that its portrayal of the supernatural is "real." What matters in supernatural fiction is whether details make sense in terms of the fantasy an author has constructed. In Rosemary's Baby, the apparently ridiculous, out-of-date Satan is still around and doing business, so there's no reason to think that his child won't have a shot at taking over the world, even with horns and a tail. We've seen, through Guy, that humans are easy enough to recruit.

What a fucking scold.

My guess is Mia had the boyish haircut going into the project and wore wigs when necessary?

Anyone know about her weight loss for the film? Did she lose the lbs. before shooting began, or were her emaciated scenes filmed later?

"Roman's stories are pretty 'DAMNED' interesting, though". "I'm going to go over there tomorrow night and hear some more". "Do this 'DAMNED' thing for me, will you?" (is that an incantation?) This is what I think of as 'The fall of Guy'. Spoken after the dinner and his quiet talk in the other room with Roman, the scene shows the cigar smoke billowing out like a reminder of Hell's fires and smoke. Guy decides to join the coven and hand over Rosemary and her baby as the entry price.

To me, the movie is about the frightening fall of average people duped by darker forces in the world via a trade off for things they desire. One writer, David Latham said, "Rosemary’s Baby remains what it was, an investigation into the horrors that humans not only allow to occur to one another but are complicit in".

It has a place historically in the sixties. Some interesting things that happened back then, the soup Du Jour Rosemary's Baby was steeped in.

When Rosemary lies down on the couch just before Minnie and Laura-Louise interrupt her, she's reading "Yes, I can" by Sammy Davis, Jr. Back then Sammy joined the Church of Satan. The Church of Satan was founded in 1966 by Anton LaVey. Was Rosemary's baby inspired by the news of The Church of Satan in 1966? "The year is one".

It has been said that Sammy was invited to one of the churches orgies by his barber, the hair stylist Jay Sebring, it is said Sebring was a member of that church. I haven't read this elsewhere but one article, and I wonder if it's true but I do know that it is true that he was Sammy's stylist.

Braggart LaVey. Publicity hound. Claimed Roman Polanski cast him to play Satan himself in the rape scene of the 1968 film "Rosemary's Baby,". But it is only what LaVey claimed.

What is true "... one of the Manson murderers, Sharon ( this is a mistake, her name was Susan) Atkins, had performed as a "blood-swilling vampire" in the LaVey show "Witches' Sabbath" prior to joining Charles Manson's cult".

"While people could accept or even embrace LaVey portraying a rapist Beelzebub in a movie, his ties to the Manson murders were disturbing, if not revolting. Suddenly his brand of libertine fun was tainted by one of the most horrific crimes of the century. It was an association he could never live down".

But Rosemary's Baby was a hit.

R387. Mia wore a wig in the earlier scenes. Did she lose weight or did they just put her in larger sizes to make her look even thinner than she was. Plus the sunken, ghoulish face make up helped.

R387, The scene where Rosemary was to meet Hutch in front of the Time - Life Building and Minnie shows up was the last scene filmed.

Why did they need a baby? Was Satan going to retire?

A human baby is a liason to The Big Kahuna. At least in fiction.

R391

The babies new nickname was Spare. Not Replacement.

All in all Satan in this movie does not seem like a totally bad fellow.

R375, the sedative in the mousse didn't fail. Rosemary scooped most of the mousse out when Guy wasn't looking.

R391 😆 I think that is the best question or observation I have ever seen about Rosemary's Baby!

I always thought she ate just enough of the mousse to pass out but not enough to stay passed out which is why she remembered feeling as if she had been raped the next morning. Guy was under the impression she had eaten the entire thing. The best excuse he could come up with is he fucked her while she was passed out.

She don’t see. As long as she ate the mouse she can’t see nor hear. Now sing.

[quote]Why did they need a baby? Was Satan going to retire?

Why did Jews and Gentiles need a baby. Was God going to retire?

Do you think Polanski & Farrow fucked? I do. Wish I could find that awful documentary the two of them made but Paramount pulled it from the internet, just like they pulled Rosemary’s Baby unless you pay for it.

Aunt Tisa looks like Roman.

Sorry.

Aunt Tisa looks like Ronan

R391, it is a good question, but one, I think, with an answer. In most Western stories about “the gods”, it’s clear that they have limitations. They can’t live among humans or pass as human for very long. They look at humans as chess pieces and try to influence them. You can see that in The Odyssey, in the Norse legends that are used in Wagner’s Ring cycle, and, yes, the various stories of the Bible. So having a half human/half god hybrid is one way around this: the child can live among humans on Earth, understand them, and do bad/good things.

R399, There’s a “making of” documentary on the DVD.

R390 that scene really captures the essence of Manhattan. Even all these years later. Very well shot.

R391 the child was to be son of Satan, as Jesus was son of God. Think of him as fun Jesus.

Pre-WTC NYC. No horrible needles skyscrapers. casting shadows in Central Park. Housing was mostly for middle income people. They were still building Mitchell Lama housing (but in 1973, they would put a loophole into the contracts of the builders, allowing then to leave the program).

A pre-John-and-Yoko NYC. Greenwich Village was turning from an offbeat entertainment hub to a village for gay men from around the country. Pre-Studio 54. Pre-AIDS.

Midnight Cowboy NY. Pre-Russian mob NY. Pre-Donald Trump. Pre-1977 blackout. Pre “Ford to City: Drop Dead.”

Pre-Reagan. Anti-war. Pre-Gay Lib, pre Woman’s Lib. Post-Watts. Pre-SDS/Weathermen. Pre-Yippies. Pre-Yuppies. Pre-Fillmore East.

R365 = V. Putin. Don't forget having a plane fall from the sky!

I wonder if Rosemary's darling little Andrew was able to get alon with other children?

Keep your eyes on these people. J.J. Abrams has my full attention.

^ Damn, the devil's spawn has some serious intellectual and learning disabilities

[quote]R394: the sedative in the mousse didn't fail. Rosemary scooped most of the mousse out when Guy wasn't looking.

That's a fail, no question about it. It may be on Guy's part, to stay with Roe every single moment and see to it that she ate every bite, but a failure nonetheless. And she woke up during the impregnation.

This is part of the discussion from R365 to R385, observing that when the Satanists wanted something done, they did it through concrete means, rather than resorting to magic. If magic was their viable go-to method, they could have used that to put Roe to sleep, and she wouldn't have been able to slip out of it.

They don't really have magic, and it's this observation that turned R376/R385 into such a scold, as R386 observed.

But what about Baumgarten? Im not arguing because I’m insanely wedded to magic/no magic. Just wondering how they could’ve made baumgarten go blind. He said he just woke up and he was blind.

R412, they could have done something to him in his sleep, or slipped him something in his food or drink just before he slept. They could have placed someone close to him once Guy had told Roman about the rivalry - a housekeeper, personal assistant, anyone with access. If the manner of blindness was only temporary, a nurse or personal assistant might well be able to perpetuate it indefinitely.

(Knock-out drug at dinner. While he's asleep, use a syringe to inject India ink or some such into the vitreous humor of his eyeballs. While an optometrist would note the presence of some obstruction, they wouldn't know what it was, or really be able to do anything about it.)

The point was to impress Guy - and horrify him as well - with the apparent reach of their powers.

It's probably not anything they will need to sustain on behalf of Guy, long-term. By the end of the film, Rosemary despises Guy, and the need for him as a way of informing upon/controlling her is effectively at an end. It's been my feeling that Guy Woodhouse would be the next one to meet with an unfortunate accident. His usefulness was over.

Guy had Baumgarten's tie. I assumed they put a spell on it and he went blind just like they put a spell on Hutch's glove and he ended up in a coma.

The only important question here is how big as Satan's cock?

I love this thread.

[quote]R414: Guy had Baumgarten's tie. I assumed they put a spell on it and he went blind just like they put a spell on Hutch's glove and he ended up in a coma.

In assuming that, you would be following what the Castavets intended for Guy to believe. See R365 and R369, then R411 and R413. If the Satanists really had sympathetic magic on their side, they should have been unstoppable; no need to push people out of windows and drug the chocolate mousse.

It's so stupid to claim one way or the other regarding possible supernatural elements of the film. It's intentionally left ambiguous. When one days "they definitely didn't put a spell on Donald Baumgarten" they're full of shit. You don't definitively know that, and you don't definitively know the "rules" of the universe Rosemary's Baby takes place in.

[quote]R418: When one days "they definitely didn't put a spell on Donald Baumgarten" they're full of shit.

No more so that someone who insists - petulantly, nearly in a tantrum - that that's definitely how Baumgartner went blind.

I didn't say they didn't perform a ritual with the tie. I'm just pointing out that that's unlikely to have been the cause of the blindness. You don't postulate magic where a naturalistic explanation will suffice - especially when they use naturalistic methods for everything else.

[quote]you don't definitively know the "rules" of the universe Rosemary's Baby takes place in.

Neither do you, R418.

Just apply a little bit of critical thinking to it. The film itself encourages that.

The Satanists operate through tricks and psy-ops. Magic didn't get Dr Hill to betray Rosemary; social engineering and deference to an older colleague did. Magic didn't let them into the Woodhouses' apartment; they had a concealed door for that. There's no reason to believe the rest of it is any different.

R10 Welcome to DL, you dizzy old hen.

"The Satanists operate through tricks and psy-ops."

Again, there's no way to know that. You're imposing real world logic on a fantasy story. You can have that opinion, but getting mad at someone for thinking there may be magic elements to a story where a woman sees something with yellow eyes fucking her, and exclaims "THIS IS NOT A DREAM. THIS IS REALLY HAPPENING!" is rather foolish, if you don't mind me saying.

I still lean toward the idea it was a spell they cast on Terry to jump out that window.

Or Terry was so horrified at what Roman proposed she got hold of some drugs, got high and ended up jumping. Given her shady past if she reported Minnie and Roman to the police would they believe her? She was desperate.

Terri got a phone call from her dear friend Diane Linkletter the second that the Castevets stepped out of the apartment, and Diane convinced her that jumping out of the window was the only way to go.

Couldn't Minnie have come up with a mousse without a chalky under taste?

It's clearly the sedative that makes it have the chalky undertaste, r425.

So, no.

Lots of sedatives don't have a chalky undertaste.

Couldn't Sapperstein supply a bunch of valium?

R427, it’s obvious that the mousse is supposed to knock her out, but who knows what other noxious stuff they’ve put in there in the belief that it will help Rosemary ‘s union with Satan produce a child.

Did Minnie put Tanis Root in the mouse?

[quote]R421: Again, there's no way to know that. You're imposing real world logic on a fantasy story.

Yes, there is a way to know that. The storyline goes to considerable lengths to 'get it right' in its depictions of Satanism. It's not played as straight-out fantasy in its entirety.

Have you ever met any Satanists? In particular, organized members of a coven? They 𝑑𝑜 exist, and they tend to game their abilities through chicanery, the same way Christian faith healers do. Magic/miracles aren't real, and I don't think it was the intention of the author/filmmakers to suggest that it does. I'm sorry if that offends you.

[quote]You can have that opinion, but getting mad at someone for thinking there may be magic elements to a story where a woman sees something with yellow eyes fucking her, and exclaims "THIS IS NOT A DREAM. THIS IS REALLY HAPPENING!" is rather foolish, if you don't mind me saying.

Because the suggestion that she was raped by someone in a costume, which Satanist high priests have traditionally worn for hundreds of years, is just so outré.

Babe, I'm not the one getting mad here, and calling someone "foolish," "stupid," and "full of shit." This is something you've gotten really worked up about, and it feels a lot like I'm having yet another version of the 'Did Jesus exist' argument with you, that my suggestions somehow tread on your religious sensibilities. It could simply be that you're one of those who 'doesn't play well with others,' and can't handle differences of opinion on a message board, but you come across as more emotionally invested than just that. You're the one who's pretending to certainty, not I.

▲ I don't think it was the intention of the author/filmmakers to suggest that they are.

[quote]R429: Did Minnie put Tanis Root in the mouse?

No. But I think it was a constituent in the daily heath drink that Minnie provided to Rosemary.

[quote]No. But I think it was a constituent in the daily heath drink that Minnie provided to Rosemary.

That’s stated explicitly in the book though I can’t remember if the line is in the movie too.

[quote] That’s stated explicitly in the book though I can’t remember if the line is in the movie too.

It is.

I last read the book back in the early 80s, R433. There's no way I'd remember something like that. I'm not totally fresh on the film at the moment, either. I think the last time I sat through it was a couple of years ago, around Halloween. Maybe it's time again. (I've probably watched it some thirty or more times in my life.)

When I profile a film, I usually download it and proof its subtitle file, so that I become really familiar with its dialogue. This thread sort of prompts me to want to do that.

R435, I watched it on FLIX last evening.

R425

That's silly. There IS no chalky under taste.

R430, you keep accusing anyone who questions you (and there is more than one) of being upset and angry, while labelling them as defensive Christians, despite the fact that they are appealing to the fact that the film is a fictional work and arguing for the integrity of the conventions of the horror/fantasy genre with no mention of religion. Thus, it would seem that you are perhaps projecting your own feelings of rigid fundamentalism and defensiveness onto those who question you.

Where the hell did they get all that money? Affording a 4 at the Bram (with an elevator operator!). All that new furniture, paying all the workmen for paining and wallpaper. Rosemary’s pantsuit, Vidal Sassoon haircut, Rosemary’s matching outfit at the Time Life building. Guy did a Yamaha ad and was an extra in Luther and Nobody Loves an Albatross.

They got a sweetheart deal from the same landlord Joey, Monica, Rachel, Phoebe, Drug-Addict and Schwimmer rented from on “Friends”

[quote]R438: you keep accusing anyone who questions you (and there is more than one) of being upset and angry...

Um, yeah. Telling someone they're "foolish," "stupid," and "full of shit" tends to communicate rage. And questions? Not so much. Take your remark at R376, where you accuse me of the inflexible certainty you're evincing, and cite the opinions of other posts in the thread, as though a coalition of other posted opinions would cancel me out. (Since most others have not weighed in on the issue, or hadn't at the point you posted R376, you have no way of knowing what their opinions are, unless... (wait for it) they're socks of yours.) It's just a variant of that "we" shit.

Yes, there's socks on this thread. Not a problem for the most part, until the user starts using the spare accounts to try to overpower another opinion.

[quote](and there is more than one)

Mmm-hmm. Suuurrre there is.

The fact that you go out of your way to say so is practically an admission of what they are.

[quote]while labelling them as defensive Christians...

I haven't labeled anyone a Christian. I have compared the anger and emotionalism being evinced as being like an offended religious sensibility - a religious opinion about the nature and meaning of 'Rosemary's Baby.' 'It's supernatural, and if you don't agree, you're just stupid!'

[quote]Thus, it would seem that you are perhaps projecting your own feelings of rigid fundamentalism and defensiveness onto those who question you.

I'm not the one who's defensive here. And it's more characteristic of "rigid fundamentalism" to insist that I have to be wrong, with whatever pejoratives can be accumulated there.

The so-called 'questions' are all the same, as is the explanation you propose. Maybe if you could answer challenges to it without insults and name-calling, that might count for something.

RosemaryClit

r438, PoisonedDragon is an Aspie know-it-all, and he goes batshit when anyone disagrees with him.

And this was such a fun thread!

I know, it was. I hate when people won't let an argument go. It's a real thread-killer.

R439 in the book, Guy was on a soap opera, I think they it was Another World or Love Is A Many Splendored Thing. which didn't premiere until 1967 so maybe I am remembering it wrong.

A dive into the real estate mysteries of Rosemary's Baby:

I believe the Dakota went into bankruptcy / receivership in the early 20th century and because of rent control and a somewhat idiosyncratic manager it was relatively inexpensive to live there (considering the location and size of the apartments) into the 60s. The Chelsea Hotel was similar into the 80s.

[Quote] They don't really have magic, and it's this observation that turned [R376]/[R385] into such a scold, as [R386] observed.

what about the tie Guy borrowed apparently used to blind Donald Baumgart? And Hutch's glove was used to put him in a coma.

Thank you R438. R430 seems to be an obsessed idiot.

R443 He sure is. Way to make a fun topic unfun, R430.

R441 must be a scream at parties.

I love the shot where Rosemary drops the charm necklace into the sewer. Something about the music and the composition of that scene is just so perfect.

I liked their bright and cheery kitchen.

The cheery yellow symbolizes Rosemary’s happiness, her bright future. She’s a sunflower with her yellow bob, her yellow and white sleeveless dress. She happily finds shelves for the previously hidden hallway closet, installs them and presents them to Guy like a tv commercial model while wearing a warm yellow blouse. It symbolizes openness. Look what I found and fixed!

As time goes on the yellow disappears. The pain starts. She wears a black sweater when she has menstrual cramps the night Minnie and Laura Louise show up. The plot is already afoot. She wears a red pantsuit the night she is drugged, signifying raw sex. Rosemary’s hair becomes a muted, closed-looking reddish blonde as the walls close in on her.

She’s surrounded now by the coven. The color drains from her face when she’s impregnated. She looks nervous and feral. Hutch visits - she’s wearing a black sweater she clutches and draws close to her neck and chest, and black tights. Hutch notices the change in her and is alarmed. She’s thin, pale, cold, practically shivering. Compare this to the Rosemary Hutch last saw who was smiling, joking, looking forward to her new home.

She’s seen the dead body of a young woman she knew lying in a pool of blood.

When she sees her reflection in the kitchen faucet tearing at raw meat, she tries to collect herself and return to her old life. She wants her young, vibrant friends to return to her. She wants to be one of them again. But when they arrive, the pain doesn’t go away. She’s not the old Rosemary and her friends are fearful of/for her. That’s the last straw for her. She’s returning to Dr Hill, she says. She’s not drinking the herbal concoction again. She’s determined to shake off the old people who seem to be draining her like vampires. She wants her yellow back.

The coven - and her rapist - realize they’ve got to give Rosemary some air or they’ll lose her. Dr Hill will do blood tests and discover her anemia, he’ll hospitalize her (in those days they would) and that will take her out of their world. They ease up on her. The pain stops. They give her a sweet cake instead of the voluminous drink that looks ominously like mildewed milk.

Rosemary feels better but never gets her yellow back. By the end of the movie, we realize she never will.

Saddest scene in the movie is after the party when Ro and Guy fight about her seeing another doctor and suddenly she feels the baby move and she knows it's alive. She's happy and relieved while Guy ignores her and continues cleaning up. Mia is phenomenal in that scene.

And Guy refuses to feel the baby kicking. He’s visibly repulsed when she grabs his hand and presses it to her abdomen.

Was it just anemia Dr. Hill discovered in the blood test or something more concerning? I need to rewatch this movie!

R455 I really enjoyed your comments about the color schemes in the movie. It’s one of those movies you can really study. I just rewatched it last week and now I want to watch it again! Better yet, I need to buy it.

R455 That was very interesting. . Good analysis, and kind of sad, too.

When Rosemary gets the necklace from Minnie and they leave and she is with Guy, telling him about the necklace and the following scene where she is in a gray and white striped skirt Mia seems to be running around the apartment unsteadily as if she is practicing for the upcoming scene where she is inebriated from the Mousse.

Just my thought.

r458 I interpret that scene as Dr. Hill has found something odd about the blood test. He doesn't want to alarm her so he makes up the idea that the nurse just didn't take enough. The way Mia repeats the line makes it sound like she is slightly alarmed by Dr. Hill's response.

[quote] Was it just anemia Dr. Hill discovered in the blood test or something more concerning?

At the beginning of her pregnancy she visits Dr Hill. He takes a blood test and calls to tell her the results are positive…she’s pregnant. He then asks her to return to the office for a repeat blood test. He says the nurse didn’t take enough…then he said she needs a blood sugar. But he sounds hesitant ….as if he doesn’t want to alarm her. It odd. Watch the scene. It’s suggesting Hill doesn’t want rosemary to think there’s a problem, but he wants to double check her lab results.

Rosemary doesn’t return to Dr Hill. She goes to Dr Sapirstein who doesn’t take any blood.

Rosemary is pale, appears cold, drawing her clothes to her body. She’s devouring raw, bloody meat. She is most probably anemic. She announces to Guy that she’s returning to Dr Hill.

Guy is horrified.

Guy knows if Rosemary goes back to Dr Hill he will draw blood tests — which is normally done in pregnancy. Plus Rosemary looks terrible and is in pain, which will arouse Dr Hill’s suspicion. Pregnant women don’t look like Rosemary.

Blood tests will undoubtedly show abnormalities, probably anemia because the devil baby is sapping Rosemary of her color, her body warmth and her weight. There’s a reason why Sapirstein doesn’t draw blood from Rosemary. Sapirstein knows the baby is draining Rosemary like a parasite. He doesn’t want some laboratory to run her blood test and record the results as her pregnancy progresses.

Guy desperately trys to think of a reason to explain why Rosemary shouldn’t go to Hill. He runs his hands through his hair from nervousness. He says “out of the question. We’d have to pay Dr Hill and Dr Sapirstein.”

Rosemary says, “I don’t want to switch, I just want a second opinion.”

“I won’t let you do it, Ro!” Guy is angry but also stumped for an explanation. After we see him mentally stumble he says, “It’s not fair to Dr Sapirstein.”

This *finally* pushes Rosemary to anger, after all these months of pain that Sapirstein has been telling her will go away soon. She explodes at Guy, screaming that she’s been miserable, frightened and in pain for months while Sapirstein breezily waves away her complaints. She tells him she stopped drinking Minnie’s herbal drink days ago and has been making one of her own,

All of a sudden…. her body posture and attitude visibly change.

“What’s the matter, Rosemary”

“It’s stopped…..the pain stopped. …Just like that.”

Guy is terrified.

“What did you put in that drink, Rosemary?”

“eggs, milk,...sugar. -

He gets physical with her. “What else? Come on, Rosemary, for Christ's sake, what else was in that drink?”

He’s afraid the pain stopped because the baby is dead, killed by some ingredient in Rosemary’s drink.

“It’s alive! Guy!” Rosemary cries.”it's moving! Feel…..feel!”

She grabs his hand and puts it on her abdomen, He flinches…..he doesn’t want to feel it, it’s a fucking devil baby!. He knows it will be handed over to the coven as soon as it’s born. It’s already been planned by the coven that the baby will not be born in a hospital.

(After watching the movie more than twice, a viewer wonders — does Guy maybe think Rosemary won’t survive the birth?)

The devil obviously has been watching Rosemary — or the Castevets can hear them arguing through the wall — and some devil magic takes place to blunt the pain.

It is questionable how the coven plans to handle the birth. I guess drug her and tell Rosemary it died (like they do) but wouldn't Rosemary wonder why she isn't in a hospital?

Why would she think she should be in a hospital as she delivered at home?

She just miscarried a child. Back then that would put you in a hospital.

she didn't miscarry; that little devil lived R465

R462 which makes Dr. Hill betraying Rosemary by calling Saperstein when she thinks she is safely going to deliver at Mt. Sinai, odd. Her tale to Dr. Hill was working until she mentioned Saperstein's name. The hesitant look from Rosemary to Dr. Hill, when he says "Abraham Saperstein?" - should have resonated more, but she was lulled into a false sense of security, and left alone to face her fate. Scary stuff.

r466, she was TOLD she had miscarried. That's the point.

No she gave birth and was told she was told the baby died. .

She was full term. You don’t miscarry when it’s full term.

Today the witches would've had Rosemarry arrested for having a suspected abortion...and no one would've ever seen her again.

R468 see R469 R470 and the movie!

Not to derail, but stillbirths can occur up to a natural delivery date.

Yes, she had a live baby, and was further gaslit the following day when she was told it died bc of complications that never would've happened if she didn't get all hysterical and prematurely induced the birth without being in the hospital.

Was there anything else in the book regarding Hutch? I could see someone slipping into room in the hospital to give him a quick air embolism, or insulin, etc, but why wait until he was totally forgotten about by Rosemary? He wasnt a threat to their plan, he was a vehicle for the story, but his passing should've happened sooner.

Also, why did Roman have pierced ears?

The different ideas expressed above of what happened in the story is what makes this movie such a masterpiece. Hundreds of different views of the same piece and they're all possible.

[quote]R473: Also, why did Roman have pierced ears?

Because he was a Satanist.

In the 1960s, it was quite uncommon for men to have pierced ears, especially men of that age. One could have as easily wondered if he was a pirate. She looked at him like he was an extraterrestrial or something; something was off about him, and it made her wary of him.

[quote] Not to derail, but stillbirths can occur up to a natural delivery date

Yes but not miscarriages.

Oh good, another OCD troll.

"EXACT WORDS, Dad!" -- Greg Brady

Probably would have been a good idea for the coven to keep the baby in someone else's apartment and not right next door especially when Rosemary has heard a baby crying and was vocal about it.

Cut me some slack, R478.

Interesting coincidence: Phil Leeds who plays Dr. Shand was really in Nobody Loves an Albatross on Broadway.

When DL obsessions collide: Rosemary's Baby read by Kim Cattrall

I’d love to have a friend like Hutch in my life.

R482, be the Hutch in a friend's life.

I always felt like Hutch didn't like Guy very much. Very small things but the most obvious is when Hutch is visiting with Ro and Guy burts in. Hutch announces he's leaving and Guy says 'so soon' and Hutch ignores him. Hutch also gives him very cold looks. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but that's always been my impression.

[quote] Probably would have been a good idea for the coven to keep the baby in someone else's apartment and not right next door especially when Rosemary has heard a baby crying and was vocal about it.

They thought the air conditioner would cover the sound of the baby's crying.

And Roman wanted to parade the baby in front of the Satan worshippers from all over the world (the Greek millionaire, the Japanese man with the camera) in front of the portrait of his father in his apartment.

R484 I agree with you. I think Maurice Evans was such a good actor he probably developed a background for his character that perfectly fits the plot of the movie, to wit Hutch and Guy never cared much for each other to begin with so Guy has no problem disposing of him through his connections.

That would make sense that Hutch didn't like Guy, as he was protective of Rosemary, and Guy was an actor and actor's are phony and self-serving (and was there anymore quintessentially actor-y move then Guy selling his child to further his career?) and Hutch probably always saw that side of Guy.

You guys I can't wait to have this on 4K Blu-ray thanks to this thread, it's coming out in October. I'll be happily replacing my old DVD.

Guy greatly disliked Hutch in the book. He was jealous of Hutch because Rosemary liked and respected him. The backstory was that Rosemary, Elise and another girl were roommates in NYC. They were all new to the city and Hutch was their neighbor. He knew a lot about the city, the was the father of grown daughters, he was lonely and friendly. The girls adored him. He was also a successful writer of books about boys adventures. - I think it was a sort of Hardy Boy series of books he wrote.

So there was Hutch - suave, educated, literary, successful, and a genuinely nice man admired by young women - and there was Guy, a cynical, obnoxious, bit-part actor. He resented Hutch. And Hutch is interesting. He’s the type of person you want to have a conversation with and really look forward to seeing. He’s full of information. When Hutch tells Guy and a Rosemary the history of the Branford you can see Guy rolling his eyes. Hutch delightedly talks of the Trench sisters eating children as he’s carving a roast and Guy sarcastically says, “You really rouse my appetite.” Hutch glances at him. You know he only tolerates Guy because he likes rosemary and has paternal feelings for her.

When Hutch comes to the apartment on that cold day after he was at the City Center he is visibly shocked by how awful Rosemary looks. He can’t believe she’s pregnant. He doesn’t like Guy and you can tell he’s a little pissed off that nobody is helping her. Roman arrives shortly after Hutch and assures Hutch that he, Minnie and Dr Sapirstein are taking good care of Rosemary. This makes Hutch suspicious of Roman.

Roman is smiling, chuckling and waving off Hutch’s concern…. but Hutch isn’t stupid. He’s been around the block a few times and he knows there’s something wrong with Rosemary. Anyone with half an ounce of common sense can see she is unwell, especially as she complains of pain, saying she can’t sleep.

Guy shows up, somehow summoned by Roman, to steal a glove from Hutch. When Hutch leaves, Rosemary says Hutch told her she looks terrible. Guy makes a face and says “Good old Hutch, spreading cheer wherever he goes.” He calls Hutch a professional crepe hanger, meaning he’s like a mortician. Rosemary says no he isn’t and Guy angrily says, “Then he’s a top ranking amateur.”

Guy makes no secret of his dislike for Hutch, especially now that Hutch has stumbled upon the fact that something is weirdly wrong with Rosemary.

Hutch calls later that night and tells Rosemary to meet him the next day at 11 am in front of the Time Life Building. When she hangs up, Guy asks her where and when she and Hutch are going to meet. Then Guy claims he has a yen for an ice cream and he’s going out to buy some. Shortly after he leaves - in the book, at least - Rosemary hears a doorbell ring down the hall…..

In the Son of Rosemary book has Guy become a major actor?

Someone above says Rosemary is in a coma for 30 years.

r489, one of the things you're pointing to is how exceptionally well-plotted this novel is. It surprises me because although there's no denying Ira Levin showed talent in his other works, "A Kiss before Dying" and "The Stepford Wives" are not nearly as well plotted as "Rosemary's Baby" is. There are holes all over those novel's plots.

For some reason I always thought this movie was a horror. I finally got around to watching it and thought the witches were awfully polite. They probably have more decorum than most people today. Except for the immature chubby lady with glasses rocking the baby carriage at the end, they were all right. The Asian man taking pictures was a cringeworthy relic of the time.

Mia Farrows voice and style of speaking was annoying. John Cassavettes is charming and likeable even as an asshole. The old lady from Harold and Maude was the scariest thing about the film.

This is what I imagine the baby looked like. Then she realizes it's not so bad and goes back to love it.

A mother's love to love her baby.

I went to two Barnes And Noble stores yesterday to grab a copy of Rosemary's Baby. Not only did they not have it, they had nothing by Ira Levin.When I asked at Customer Service, the reply was "we can probably order it for you". I asked if she'd even heard of Ira Levin. She hadn't. B&N is the biggest sham in NYC. As usual, I ended up ordering it on Amazon.

Ira Levin died of a heart attack at his home in Manhattan on November 12, 2007 at age 78.

How many B&N stores are left in NYC. The only one I'm aware of is in Union Square. I don't even bother going to stores anymore. Amazon all the way.

Anyone know if Levin ever commented on the movie?

R496, Two new ones in suburban Boston.

[quote] How many B&N stores are left in NYC

They just opened a new Barnes & Noble on Third Ave and 87th Street. No coffee, though. And the local Starbucks closed down, so it would be a smart thing to do.

The 'newly renovated" location on the Upper West Side is tragic. It's another clusterfuck with no one in charge.

Does it have cafe?

Sure, but you have to track it down.

R484 I never noticed that. (Not trying to imitate Guy, but, well, I guess I did).

R497 I wondered the same thing and found an article in which Ira Levin is making a small but very interesting comment on the name of the 'house' in which the Woodhouses live in.

" mistake in the review, however, prompted a letter to the editor from none other than author Ira Levin, who reminded readers what might have seemed like a small mistake in the plot description actually served to erase one of the story’s not-so-hidden layers: “I am delighted by your praise of the movie version of my book Rosemary’s Baby [June 21] and aghast at your reference to its apartment-house setting as the ‘Branford,’ rather than the ‘Bramford,'” Levin wrote. “I chose the name in memory of writer Bram Stoker, and I shudder to think that you may have offended his baby, who is still alive—you know he is—and whose name is Dracula.”

Levin could really write. That guy had a lot in that book and it was kinda wonderful fun. Hat's off, Mr. Levin :)

An article with info about the book and the actors in the coven.

R503 Use quotes please.

An excellent resource, R504!

[quote] This makes Hutch suspicious of Roman.

Oh another thing that makes Hutch suspicious of Roman ….there is a brief scene where Hutch and Rosemary are having a conversation. Hutch says, “I see you had another suicide up at Happy House.” Rosemary tells him about Terry, saying she was being rehabilitated by an old couple, the Castevets.

Hutch says, “Well they didn’t rehabilitate her very successfully.”

When Hutch visits Rosemary and sees her looking terrible and she say she’s pregnant, Roman knocks on the door. , Rosemary introduces Hutch and identifies Roman as her neighbor, Roman Castevet.

No doubt Hutch remembers the name Castevet from when Rosemary told him about Terry’s suicide. Why would Terry jump out a window if she was being rehabilitated by this old couple?

Why is Roman telling Hutch that it’s common for women to lose weight when they’re pregnant? He’s not a doctor and has no children

Hutch is on the case immediately. He calls Rosemary later that night and makes plans to meet her the next day. However Guy answered the phone. Guy asks where and when rosemary is to meet hutch…so he can send Minnie to meet up with Rosemary and make sure Hutch didn’t escape their spell.

The only thing I know about Roman Polanski.

& RB.

Was it a good movie because of Polanski or because of the book?

There’s a new paperback edition of the book out in Oct. I preordered on Amazon.

R509 Absolutely BOTH. He was smart enough to basically film the book as written. But, also added his own touches. And, the casting was out of this world brilliant.

Look at other Ira Levin adaptations. The Boys from Brazil and the 1976 Stepford Wives have their good points, but they don't measure up.

What I like most about old movies is they didn't become franchises.

R511 A Kiss Before Dying - is that Ira Levin? I read the book but I'm not sure.

R512 Universal Studios had franchises from the 30s on (Frankenstein, Dracula, Wolfman.)

Rin Tin Tin, Lassie…..

513. Yes

R514 It wasn't done as much. King Solomon's Mines was a blockbuster but MGM didn't make 5 sequels (or any sequels). There were intentional series (Hardys, Kildare) which is different. You're right about Universal. It was done, then, but much less.

Rosemary’s Baby went into junk sequels - TV only. Everyone had to wait til The Exorcist and The Omen to see more high budget devil children on the silver screen.

A KISS BEFORE DYING is indeed Levin -- it's been filmed at least twice (with Robert Wagner and Matt Dillon).

Another movie based on a Levin novel -- the ludicrous SLIVER.

The Boys From Brazil

Rosemia's Boo Boo

Interesting documentary. What was Joan Crawford doing there? I assume because of Wiliam Castle: Strait-Jacket, I Saw What You Did!

After Lucille Ball, Joan was Polanski's second choice to play Rosemary, he ultimately had to settle for Mia Farrow.

R522 how about Joan as Laura Louise? or a cameo as Grace Cardiff (Hutch's friend)?

R521, Joan was to make a cameo appearance in the movie with Van Johnson.

Tony Curtis plays Donald Baumgart on the phone.

Was Mia good in the roll because she's a great actress and she was great for the part or would any actress have been made to look good in that part?

Role* speech to text

R526, Mia was as perfect as Rosemary Woodhouse as Vivien Leigh was as Scarlett O’Hara.

R529. Don't forget me! Can you imagine that little Shirley Temple cunt as Dorothy!

Catholicism teaches that Satan is a real being and that he and his demons can possess your body and steal your soul. They have rites and rituals for exorcising demons.

These beliefs and practIces exist in some forms of Protestantism, but they're emphasized far less, particularly in mainline congregations.

The Catholic Church is a unified body with a supreme head, while Protestantism is a wide swath of differing denominations, some with a spectrum of different beliefs and levels of adherence.

Another factor us the period this film was made in. It was years before Roe v. Wade and a year before Stonewall, and a full decade before "the Moral Majority" or Reagan's rise on the national scene. Protestants were still mainstream and boring.

Catholicism was perceived in the popular imagination of 1968 as the more dogmatic and ritualistic strain of Christianity, as well as the "spookier" and more superstitious sect.

Imagining a coven of witches set on providing a womb for Satan's child, it made a certain amount of sense for them favoring or requiring a Catholic victim from a narrative standpoint.

"Was Mia good in the roll...?"

Nah, she'd just lay there.

What I love about Datalounge is a thread about Rosemary's Baby will probably get close to if not surpass 600 replies.

Bravo, y'all.

R532, Straights have their “Shawshank Redemption”, gays have their “Rosemary’s Baby”.

[Quote[ they could have done something to him in his sleep, or slipped him something in his food or drink just before he slept. They could have placed someone close to him once Guy had told Roman about the rivalry - a housekeeper, personal assistant, anyone with access. If the manner of blindness was only temporary, a nurse or personal assistant might well be able to perpetuate it indefinitely.

So why did they need a possession of his namely the tie Guy borrowed? Ditto Hutch's glove.

OP chose a great thread title; Rosemary’s Baby is about questions. There are very few traditional horror movie touches. A lot of it is, in fact, people having conversations, and the audience is left to draw conclusions.

[quote]R534: So why did they need a possession of his namely the tie Guy borrowed? Ditto Hutch's glove.

To cultivate terror of their supposed supernatural power in lower echelon members, like Guy Woodhouse, who were not privy to how the cult actually achieved its aims; to make them think sympathetic magic was real. Such members are never shown all of the secret inner workings from the beginning, but are initiated into greater access by degrees, as they show themselves worthy. Matters such as ties and gloves are 'outer portico' occultism, not the esoterica.

If the book or film narrative wanted to actually depict the implementation of real supernatural power, they could have described or shown the ritual being carried out, together with its results in real time. Neither does this; all of it occurs off-screen, leaving it up to the reader/viewer to decide for themselves to what extent it was real or not. Guy Woodhouse would believe it was real, whereas Roman and Minnie Castevet would know how it was really pulled off. What real-life occultists practice are forms of chicanery, and I see no reason to think this isn't what's being depicted in 'Rosemary's Baby.'

"Nah, she'd just lay there."

Ditto.

Anyone think the film is really cursed?

No, r538.

I never knew gays were into Rosemary’s Baby.

R538 Probably just coincidences.

In December 1968, in Los Angeles Kris Komeda the film's composer had a tragic accident which led to a haematoma of the brain. He was pushed off an escarpment by writer Marek Hłasko during a drinking party. Medical treatment in the US hospital did not save his life. After being transported home to Poland in a coma and in a terminal state, he died in April 1969, aged 37. Hlasko himself died just two months later, aged 35

and of course, Polanski's wife Sharon Tate was brutally murdered 4 months later.

P

The La la la la song at the beginning and end is utterly brilliant.

[quote]I never knew gays were into Rosemary’s Baby

Are you gay?

I play Komeda's jazz on Spotify all the time. He was a great composer. His music for R'sB and Fearless Vampires is amazing.

Happy 79th Birthday, Victoria Vetri (the actress)

I forgot Ira Levin wrote Deathtrap which was a big stage hit.

Yes indeed, R546. His only other B'way hit was his first B'way credit -- 1955's NO TIME FOR SERGEANTS, which ran nearly 800 performances (and afforded none other than Don Knotts his B'way debut!).

Otherwise, Levin's Broadway credits are all flops.

1958's INTERLOCK died after 4 performances, despite the involvement of Rosemary Harris, Maximilian Schell and DL fave Celeste Holm).

1960's CRITIC'S CHOICE -- directed by Otto Preminger, with Henry Fonda and Mildred Natwick in the cast -- managed 189 performances.

1962's GENERAL SEEGER eked out 2 performances, despite George C. Scott's starring in AND directing it.

I'd adore to see a revival of 1965's DRAT! THE CAT!, Levin's only musical (with music by Milton BRAVO GIOVANNI Schafer), which folded after 8 performances. (I seem to remember bad timing somehow -- a press strike, maybe?) It certainly had a fabulous score, and it starred the very young Lesley Ann Warren and Elliott Gould. (The latter got to introduce a song in the first act of this show that would become arguably Barbra Streisand's greatest single track ever.) The company included Jane Connell, Charles Durning and DL fave Beth Howland.

1967's DR. COOK'S GARDEN, with a nifty TWILIGHT ZONE-ish plot, also collapsed after 8 performances. You may know about this one from the fascinating pages on it in William Goldman's THE SEASON, or even from the TV movie version with Bing Crosby (!) and Blythe Danner. George C. Scott, undaunted by his previous Levin bomb, directed, then abandoned the show in previews. (Levin himself was credited as director then.)

1973's VERONICA'S ROOM must also have been something to witness -- Eileen Heckart and Arthur Kennedy playing multiple roles (or are they?) in a truly disturbing, twist-laden thriller. (I wonder whether Heckart's understudy ever got to go on -- it was Nancy Marchand.)

Then came DEATHTRAP, of course. A year after it began its 4-year smash run, Levin ventured 1 more Broadway play, and it sank on opening night: BREAK A LEG, directed by Charles Nelson Reilly, with Julie Harris (natch), Jack Weston and René Auberjonois.

Hey did anyone purchase the new 4K release? I don't know much about 4K but the cover art is fantastic on this version.

Here is said cover art!

To R99.....Oh my fucking God, you made me laugh, choke& spit my coffee out all over the kitchen counter. Thanks a lot, Rosie giving birth...that's a horror story!! I have a vision of Roman Polanski trying to film that scene of fat Dyke Rosie giving birth to the son of Satan; and Roman screaming"OH Fucking sweet Hell, why didn't the Nazis or Charlie Manson kill me, Sharon, hear I come, this Bitch is gonna kill me"

I got the new Bluray and it's fantastic. The picture is sharp and dark, darker than I've ever seen it, which works for the film. Good extras too.

He has his father’s eyes!

Of course the supernatural stuff was real in the story r536.

While I'm thankful for the invitation, R552, no thanks.

I'm avoiding SIWOTI Syndrome when possible.

I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

[quote]I have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.

R554, you addressed me directly and invited me to continue the argument. I'm declining the invitation.

As for SIWOTI Syndrome, you're as capable of looking that up as anyone.

[quote]They have allowed Trump to live in their head rent free for too long.

Someone actually thinks this is clever and has posted it in DL threads repeatedly.