THEATRE GOSSIP #532: The "Here We (STILL) Are" Edition

What's next for Ben, you ask?

I really like little Michaela Diamond, but she's got to get less grim headshots.

r1

[quote]“Something I still plan to do for sure in my lifetime is write an earnest musical, but this was a beautiful first try at that,” he says.

How modest! And ah yes, earnestness, the number one thing one looks for in a show.

Because Ernest in Love was such a hit?

I think Hit The Sky is a catchy title.

So much for her as Sally Bowels. The bad thing is she was the best of the 3 rumored choices.

[quote]HERE WE ARE is a genuinely terrible name for a show. It's not even a good title for a song.

Is it any worse then THERE YOU ARE?

[quote]So much for her as Sally Bowels.

Ew.

Following on from the entitled pricks who let themselves into Lea Salonga's dressing room, mentioned at the end of the previous thread, they were also live streaming her performance during the show.

And Lea has confirmed their claims of being friends of a producer were bullshit.

R5 “I’ll Plant My Own Tree …..”

About the American Theater Actors where Urintown premiered. It was a great theater put into that space for The American Dance Machine in the 70s. It had a great big stage that was great for dance. However the manager was crazy and build amateurish flats in the space and behind them were bins with every scrap of wood, some three inches long, stored there for when they would be useful.. Shortly before Urintown took the space I worked on a production there.

The manager had not anticipated that we would be using the entire stage but we insisted, so our load in was clearing all the crap of that stage, revealing how great a theater it was.

Friends from Present Company came to see the show and I was told that was what led to it being rented for Urinetown. No one had suspected that a beautiful open stage in a decrepit auditorium had been sitting in midtown so close to Broadway. Once they say that stage cleared, it was plain that the space was valuable.

Thanks for posting, R11. That's really interesting. I haven't been inside that theater in years, and I was somewhat surprised to hear that it still exists. What kind of shows do they do there now?

[quote]Since the show was about dark-skinned Jamaicans, I had to use body makeup that the dresser had begun to apply as soon as I stripped to my jockey shorts. I hadn’t thought, in my rush, what I would wear under Ricardo’s skimpy fisherman clothes, since my jockey shorts would show through. Luckily, the dresser had a newly laundered jockstrap with Montalban printed across the band. As I put it on, I thought not only am I in the star’s dressing room, I’m even wearing his jockstrap.

Did they shit into Lea’s Jollibees is all I wanna know.

That's a very sweet story at r13! Thank you for posting it.

That upthread post about FLEX at LCT reminded me - wasn't there once going to be a Sondheim/Lapine show called MUSCLE?

WHET?

If they schedule another piece of crap from Lapine, I'lll cancel my LCT membership.

Muscle and Passion were supposed to be one-acts, r16. They dropped Muscle and stretched out Passion to two acts.

[quote]HERE WE ARE is a genuinely terrible name for a show. It's not even a good title for a song.

It reminds me of the original title of "Oklahoma!," which was "Away We Go."

"Away We Go" sounds like a Jackie Gleason musical.

Passion was a very long one act. Had there been an intermission they would have lost half the audience.

[quote]Passion was a very long one act.

Indeed, r20. It felt so...stretched.

Interesting that the London production added an intermission.

R4. It was a hit in 1973 at Oak Park River Forest High School, where Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio as Cecily stopped the show mid Act I with “A Wicked Man”

MUSCLE was eventually written and at least workshopped, with music by William Finn.

Anyone watching the new HBO docuseries about a serial killer who stalked gay men in NY in the 1990s? Minor spoilers below. And, yes, this is theatre gossip related....

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

In the episode that just aired yesterday, one of the investigators noted that when they spoke to a friend of the main victim from this episode, the hustler/escort Anthony Marrero, the friend recommended they speak with regular clients of Marrero's a husband and wife duo of Broadway actors. Apparently, the husband regularly hired Marrero as an escort.

It was implied, though not explicitly stated, that the wife knew. They really kept those details under wraps. Any guesses as to who the husband-wife Broadway acting duo would be? I believe this would have been somewhere around 1992 or 1993.

Chris Sarrandon and Joanna Gleason?

Hume & Jessica?

R25. Fran and Barry. PS. Loving this docuseries especially since I remember when all that shit went down.

R26 - Chris & Joanna are an interesting guess! Have there ever been rumors about Chris? He did get married three times.

R27 - Oh, Lord. Ha. Could Hume even get it up at that point?

R28 - Ha. They specifically referred to them as actors. But, that is a good guess, generally speaking!

Grover and Anita?

Steve and Eydie?

Phil Ford and Mimi Hines?

Shirley Jones and Jack Cassidy?

Ethel and Ernie?

The reference to "Hume and Jessica" reminds me of this fabulous story, which a friend of mine posted online a few years ago:

And acting is pretending persuasively. I knew Jessica Tandy and Hume Cronyn pretty well, and we had a long talk about actor training once. They despised the Method, ALL methods. Hume said, “I’ll prove it’s bullshit to you. Jessica, cry: your heart is breaking.” In a second, in the middle of a restaurant, Jessica turned ghost-white; her eyes showed a huge range of incomprehension, shock, sorrow; then, slowly, she began a struggle to cover her feelings, failed; tears welled up in her eyes; there was a suppressed sob, and suddenly she was sobbing intensely, bent over the table, trembling; tears were flooding.

Waitstaff and several people at adjoining tables rushed over, really concerned. She straightened up, laughed and said, “Have I been naughty? So sorry!” For the 2 minutes she had “played the scene,” she had been utterly riveting, devastating. But it was simply her acting what she had been told to act, with no context, story or character. I’m sure she had prepared all her roles and studied the scripts and, of course, had worked with great and demanding directors, but she didn’t need to know anything but a “result” — grief — to achieve it totally convincingly.

Liam Needon and Natasha Richardson?

Kevin Spacey and Diane?

Neeson^

Reposting this here, from the "signs a celeb's career is over" thread, for all you Lainie Kazan fans.

Because this performance of "Copacabana" is beyond the beyond-o.

Can your career be over if it never really got started?

I'll have you know, I closed the first act!

I recently listened to an interview with Lainie on the Behind the Curtain podcast. Whatever anyone may think of her the bitch is a survivor. Talked about FG and how she was told she was finally going on for Babs after a year and a half then Babs showed up at the last minute and went on. Talked about Seesaw and how hurt she was when her friend Michelle Lee replaced her and how Bennett wanted nothing to do with her. No wonder she's nuts.

After listening to that voice, I'd have hired Burl Ives to play Gittel. He'd be more feminine.

Burl was matinee Gittel, r39.

Re r25 and r26 - Nick & Nora was 1991, with Gleason and Sarandon. Just sayin’. Although they weren’t married until ‘94

What’s the name of HBO or Max or whatever the fuck it’s called show?

Re: the mystery Broadway couple hiring the hustler, should note....

...it is only a very brief mention of the couple. There weren't any hints given about them. They were described as a husband and wife, so, I think they were officially a married couple unless something got lost in translation over the years.

...while the detective was recounting going to the couple's home an exterior shot of a nondescript NY apartment building was shown. Who knows if that was their actual building, but it seemed to imply the couple was Manhattan based (as opposed to living in Connecticut or upstate etc.)

...no details on the couple are given other than the man confirmed he was a client of the hustler, hadn't seen him for several weeks and was visibly saddened by the news. He was never mentioned or implied to be a suspect.

...they noted that the hustler's friend advised they should go see this couple because they were regular clients of the hustler, but it was never explicitly said whether or not they spoke to the wife or if she was even aware of the detectives' visit. So, it's not entirely clear if the wife was fully aware of the husband's proclivity for hiring male prostitutes, whether she knew he was gay or bi, whether they had an arrangement or not...

So, yeah, not a lot to go off of here.

Who are "Grover and Anita"? Last names? Sorry if it's obvious, I'm just not placing them.

[quote]Passion was a very long one act.

[quote]Indeed, R20. It felt so...stretched.

If ever a musical cried out for a freewheeling patio number, it was "Passion."

Greg Jbara and Rebecca Luker.

[QUOTE]What’s the name of HBO or Max or whatever the fuck it’s called show?

Sorry, forgot to respond to this^ in my post at R42. The Docuseries is called "Last Call: When a Serial Killer Stalked Queer New York".

Oh, and, one other non-hint. It wasn't specifically stated that the couple acted TOGETHER on Broadway (ala Hume & Jessica), just that they were a husband and wife known for being actors on Broadway.

WHET Greg Jbara?

He showed his ass in the DAMN YANKEES revival with Bebe and Victor Garber, as I recall.

Oh goody, QUEER New York.

Grover Dale and Anita Morris, r42.

That Lea Salonga story is scary. What if some totally deranged person got into her dressing room? Is security that lax at Broadway theatres that anyone can just slip into group of approved visitors? Who is responsible for security at a Broadway theatre? The producers, the general management company hired to run the show, the theatre owners/landlords? Whoever it is, they need to get their shit together.

R47 - what took you so long?

Eydie would have been a Fosca for the ages, r43.

That Lea Salonga story feels like something out of The Fan. In the original book, by the way, the fan pulls a Bea Arthur (before Bea did it!) and shits in Sally Ross's dressing room (at the Morosco, of all places) once she's displeased him.

[quote]Grover Dale and Anita Morris

R30 / R48 - Well, you certainly have identified an interesting couple here....

...Grover was in a longterm relationship with Anthony Perkins prior to his marriage to Anita Morris.

...Grover would have been in his mid/late 50s at that time, which feels about the right age. Old (and wealthy) enough that he might not be trying to pick up guys 'organically' and instead hiring hustlers, but young enough that he's probably still sexually active.

.... so, either he was openly bisexual and Anita was aware or he was gay and they had some kind of arrangement.

... they both did a lot of theatre. Anyone know if they were NY-based in the early 90s? (Though, I suppose I'm not accounting for the fact that they could be bi-coastal or had multiple homes.)

R52 - Wait. Whose dressing room did Bea take a dump in??

R54 Ask Rose.

For those interested in the Lanie Kazan v. Michelle Lee thing, this streamed joint interview they did in 2020 is worth a watch. It's long -- over two hours -- but it's VERY inside-baseball -- so perfect for us theatre and pop culture obsessed gays. They confirm they had a genuine rift over the situation, but also confirm they moved past it in subsequent years and reignited their friendship.

I feel bad admitting this, but I had no idea who Lanie was until YouTube randomly served me the video during the early days of the pandemic. So, even with very little knowledge of these women's history, I found the interview interesting and entertaining.

And, shit, I couldn't even spell their names correctly. Oh, DEAR!

Of course, Anita knew Grover had a loooooong gay past when she married him. Everyone working on (or near!) Broadway knew about Grover, like they did about Tony Perkins. That's like thinking Donna McKechnie didn't know Michael Bennett was gay when she married him.

R58 - I figured, but, I was 11/12 years old at the time in question, so wasn't really up on the sexual orientations of married Broadway actors of the early 90s. Anyway, I think you all may have identified the couple. The Datalounge Jessica Fletchers are GOOD!

Anthony Perkins and Grover Dale both saw the same psychiatrist in the early 70s who convinced them to break up and sleep with women.

Nobody talks about how homophobic even New York was at the time.

At least we got James Badge Dale out of that whole crazy mess

Yes, R60, but you can also blame the American Psychiatric Association, which was essentially preaching conversion therapy for decades.

Many many people talk about how homophobic New York was years ago, r60.

More backstage sex please.

Kids, Anita Morris was dead and buried by 1994 after suffering through a very prolonged and painful cancer. I hardly think she was out there swinging in between chemo treatments.

All the more reason that Dale might be hiring a hustler, r65?

It was a couple, not a single man.

How about Greg Edelman and Carolee Carmello?

Ron Liebman and Jessica Walter?

Lunt and Fontanne?

Mandy and Grody?

[quote]More backstage sex please.

Go backstage.

Kevin Kline and Phoebe Cates?

Billy Crudup and Mary-Louise Parker?

Ethan Hawke and Uma Thurman?

SJP and Matthew Broderick?

It’s clearly Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft

Kukla, Fran, and Ollie?

There was actually a recent play on conversion therapy. I guess COVID took the steam out of it in 2020?

I'd like to see it. I always knew conversion therapy was bullshit even as a young evangelical kid. You'd think more plays would touch on it.

"Just apply enough makeup or watch enough football games to become straight."

So, $300 for a ticket to "Here We Are" at The Fucking Shed. Kirdahy is a bottom-feeding piece of shit.

Decided to finally check out New York New York before it (probably) closes soon. Jesus, what a train wreck. Impressive sets and LOTS of pointless Stroman choreography. What the hell was that dancing on the construction girders about, anyway? The two leads are almost completely personality-free, but I think a lot of the problem is David Thompson's awful book. Reading Thompson's bio in Playbill, I was surprised to see that the first credit he chooses is his "revised" script for Chicago. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that just a condensation of the original Fosse/Ebb book? The only other show in his credits that I enjoyed was Scottsboro Boys. Other than that, he has had flop after flop. Poor Colton Ryan was left with a schizophrenic character to play: goofy dude in the first act, and alcoholic/angry dude in the second act. The poor actress playing Francine had even less character to work with. And both of them hit some REALLY off-key notes during the show. Only Emily Skinner, managed to rise above the script.

Colton Ryan is embarrassing in the show. What country is this poor child from?

Yes, R78, David Thompson's career does consist of flop after flop, except for the long-ago Off-Broadway Kander & Ebb revue ....AND THE WORLD GOES ROUND and the revised CHICAGO -- and he has a lot of nerve taking any credit for the latter, because indeed, his "work"on that show consisted only of making some minor cuts to the original libretto by Fred Ebb and Bob Fosse. One of his biggest flops was STEEL PIER. Though I agree with you that his work on THE SCOTTSBORO BOYS was an artistic success, of course that was also a huge financial failure with a very short run. So I was amazed when I saw that Thompson was writing (or co-writing) the book for NEW YORK, NEW YORK, but I guess Kander must still be enamored of him on some level, despite all those flops.

Can anyone with early access share a screenshot of the seat plan for Here We Are?

Why is Kirdahy keeping this such a huge secret?

R42- My guess is Queen Barry Weissler. But I can't rule out Boyd Gaines either.

[Quote] Go backstage.

Just not at Here Lies Love

[Quote] So, $300 for a ticket to "Here We Are" at The Fucking Shed. Kirdahy is a bottom-feeding piece of shit.

NY theater deserves to implode.

And Lincoln Center Theatre continues its sad decline. A new Michael John LaChiusa musical about Gracielle Daniele directed by Gracielle Daniele in the Fall. With Mary Testa. What could go wrong?

I thought R86 might be kidding.

But no....

For people who complain about "newer composers" like JRB, Jeanine Tesori, Dave Malloy--has anyone had more high-profile second chances than MJ LaChiusa?

R87, but it's worth noting that LaChiusa has had only two shows produced on Broadway. (I'm not counting CHRONICLE OF A DEATH FORTOLD.) The others have been Off-Broadway and most of them were presented by not-for-profit theaters, because people do recognize that, however you feel about LaChiusa's work on an artistic level, his shows have little or no commercial appeal to the masses.

Fair point, R88..

I’m a big fan of LaChiusa and have always admired his reluctance to write more commercial and lucrative fare like his contemporaries have done. But my word - The Gardens of Anuncia sounds like HARD WORK.

Graciela Daniele has long been a beloved figure on Broadway going all the way back to her chorus girl days where she created the ghost of Young Vanessa (of Vincent & Vanessa and the Bolero d'Amour) in the original production of FOLLIES and the Hunyak in the original production of CHICAGO ("Not geeeeel-ty!"). I believe she's been married to genius lighting designer Jules Fisher for several decades now.

LaChiusa has done several really good shows, including GIANT, QUEEN OF THE MIST (with an outstanding performance by Mary Testa), FIRST LADY SUITE, HELLO AGAIN, and THE WILD PARTY. While his music is not for the masses, I've always been impressed with the quality of his work.

IMHO

I always get Graciela confused with Gillian Lynn.

Mary Testa is…Mary Testa!

Those who know her…know what that means!

Didn't this new musical about Daniele have a run in CA that was favorably received?

Every time I've seen Daniele interviewed, she's always smart, funny and perceptive. I'm a fan. I was especially enamored when she said performing is like being a kid and every time a show comes up, it's like someone comes knocking on your door and invites you to come outside and play.

.....

where the fuck is the Sweeney album. 5 tracks over the last few months. Stop being cute.

Saw Kimberly Akimbo tonight and quite enjoyed it, but did anyone else think that Vicky Clark (in this role) sounds uncannily like Charlotte York? Once I heard it I couldn’t make it go away.

Sweetie, do you mean Rachel York? Charlotte York is a fictional character.

R98, the whole CD is available for download. I don’t know the release date for the physical CD, though.

Michael York

Oh, Susannah...

I mean Charlotte “cum on my tits” York.

[quote]The whole CD is available for download.

I don't believe that's correct. I was talking with Josh Groban tonight -- he was in the audience of another show -- and he said the whole album hasn't been released yet because they're still mixing it.

Only those five tracks , so show up on Apple Music

R101 what are you basing that on?

PS: and CDs aren't available for download

R101 I am most dreadfully embarrassed for you.

i have 101 blocked🤷🏻‍♂️

Aw, with his "the whole CD is available to download" thing, I have a feeling r101 may just be a sweet eldergay using outdated references and who may have genuinely thought the whole cast recording had been released

R116 Indeed. Snaps for R101

It appears that I do too r109. Must be a cunt.

He may be A cunt, but I am THE cunt....

Actually THE cunt was Arthur Laurents.

Patti is just a volcano of anger and rage.

There is a difference

girls, girls... you're all cunts

Are we really in such a hurry for that recording? There are plenty of great ones already...

The Vocals and sound quality of the tracks they’ve felt so far are pretty great

The Shed manages to fuck up Sondheim tickets big time.

If this last Sondheim show were any good wouldn't it be getting a commercial production, a tryout somewhere on the road aiming for Broadway? The Shed? Sounds like they're already admitting it's not great.

Sounds like they're already planning on moving it to Broadway next spring.

What makes you say that, r120?

Because they're charging $300 for the good seats, so you can only imagine what Lady Kirdahy will charge you in the Spring. Hey, someone has to make up the immense loss on NY NY.

Happy 97th birthday Helen Gallagher!

[quote]The Shed manages to fuck up Sondheim tickets big time.

Can you be more explicit? A friend of mine got two tickets priced at $200 each with no problem.

[quote]If this last Sondheim show were any good wouldn't it be getting a commercial production, a tryout somewhere on the road aiming for Broadway? The Shed? Sounds like they're already admitting it's not great.

How is a limited-run, Off-Broadway production all that different from "a tryout somewhere on the road aiming for Broadway?" If the show demonstrates a lot of commercial appeal in its run at the shed, of course there is the possibility of it moving to Broadway thereafter, as countless other shows have done.

It sounds like you know very little about producing.

A move to Bway is not a given.

Signed, ROADSHOW (aka BOUNCE/GOLD/WISE GUYS)

No one loves SS more than me, but I have little confidence that this will be more than a curiosity. Historically, much of his best work has been created late in the process as the show gets on its feet and audiences have had a chance to respond. Of course I'm eager to see it, but Road Show doesn't give me much hope.

And, r127, with ROAD SHOW he had plenty of times to respond to the audience's reactions. Plenty of times in multiple productions.

Yes, and learned very little.

How many years did Sondheim have to write this final show? 20?? I think the utter lack of urgency to complete work on it, perfectly understandable at his age....but, nonetheless......speaks volumes as to the quality and his dedication to and belief in this project.

When Sondheim told us it wasn't ready for production, his words should have been heeded.

AND, as has been queried above, is there another set of hands tinkering with it?

Word on The Rialto is that a strike on Broadway may be in the works as early as Friday.

So if a strike hits Broadway I'm guessing we'll be saying goodbye to NY NY for sure and probably a few others.

Tracie Bennett is tweeting she’s shooting a film in upstate NY. SCAB! Girls, I think we’ve found our new Jan Maxwell. And this one’s a foreigner so this could be even more fun.

Bounce - Road Show fully had Broadway plans and Broadway producers (and this is after the Rudin blow-up when it was "Gold") in Chicago and DC until it turned out to be bad then they bailed.

What used to be the Antonyo Awards for black achievement are now simply called 'The Awards.' Obnoxioius.

I’ve attending the Awards, because I’ve been nominated for an award, an Award.

GREY HOUSE closing.

Uh oh, Kirdahy crash lands another stinker. Now the Sondheim tickets will go up to $400.

RE: Tracie Bennett is tweeting she’s shooting a film in upstate NY. SCAB! Girls, I think we’ve found our new Jan Maxwell. And this one’s a foreigner so this could be even more fun.

Didn't I read somewhere some indie films are okay to proceed?

Surprised Grey House lasted this long.

Is this the first time Broadway, film and Tv will all be striking at the same time?

I’m shooketh

C'mon kids...let's put on a show!

Another harbinger of the questionable quality of HERE WE ARE - Nathan Lane and Bernadette Peters did the reading but have chosen not to continue with it.

You have no idea what else they have going on or what commitments they have

Bernadette is too old and can't sing anymore. Nathan can't play anyone but Nathan

I'm so curious about the score of HERE WE ARE. I can't believe no one's leaked anything--sheet music, a demo, script pages, a bootleg recording from the reading. It had a reading at the Public in 2016 and a workshop that same year, well before the reading with Nathan and Bernie in 2021.

My cynical heart tells me that if the score were up to Sondheim's usual (brilliant) standards, he might have shared a song or two as a teaser during its long development process just to generate interest. Most other composers would. Sondheim even shared a few songs from the movie musical that never got made--that's where "Water Under The Bridge" comes from.

But we'll see.

R116 -- are there really that many SWEENEY TODD recordings on the market? Apart from the divine OBC, there's the LuPone/Hearn NYPhil one and the LuPone/Cerveris revival, and of course only one of those uses the original charts. I'd say that there's plenty of room for another SWEENEY recording, especially with this cast.

[quote]Bernadette is too old and can't sing anymore.

Saw her in June. She's fine.

I have the Zero Mostel/Kay Medford studio recording, r148.

So much mind-reading here -- people who just KNOW what Sondheim would have done if any of these new songs was good (he was by no means in the habit of letting his songs be heard before their original productions), and what people involved in the workshop(s) thought of it (people do workshops all the time who don't go on to play those parts in the actual productions), etc., etc.

I'm expecting this to be basically a David Ives play with maybe a half-dozen Sondheim songs. If the play itself is good, the totality may be delightful, and one will wonder how much more so it might have been with a full score. Or the whole thing may be what the Brits (used to?) call a curate's egg. Either way, I'm glad that Sondheim's final songs will be heard, perhaps even recorded.

R148 There's also the Michael Ball/Imelda Staunton London cast.

It would be interesting to hear David Ives's perspective on collaborating with Sondheim. At one point the show they were working on was about the breakdown of a relationship, told out of chronological order. I'm not sure if it was scrapped because it sounds so similar to The Last Five Years, but it seems there were many stops and starts to their attempts at working together.

Bernie

I don't know about Nathan, but Bernadette is already committed to the Sondheim tribute show "Old Friends" in the West End. How hard is it to do the tiniest bit of Googling before pulling nonsense out of your bottom, R144?

All that said, got my tickets, looking forward to it, but I'm not going in with high expectations at all. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but I'm not expecting Sondheim to have written a masterwork at that late stage of his life.

It has nothing to do with googling, r154. I'm aware of Bernadette's fall plans.

Do you really think doing a concert tribute in London (which was already televised in the UK and the US) would be preferable to creating a leading role in dearest old friend Steve Sondheim's final Broadway-bound musical unless said musical was a waste of her time? And I'd say the same for Nathan and he doesn't even seem to be doing anything else this fall.

I do wonder if Patti was offered the show.

r144 - okay, catching your drift. Though, again, I don't think any of us know the timelines here (when those in the potential casting pool first new of the production happening at The Shed vs. when Bernie had already committed to the West End show.)

I'm just glad you're not my agent, r156.

[quote]I have the Zero Mostel/Kay Medford studio recording, [R148].

Pales in comparison to the Dean Martin/Dinah Shore version. Sammy Davis was an amazing Anthony.

[quote]nd I'd say the same for Nathan and he doesn't even seem to be doing anything else this fall.

Actually, he'll be busy making a lot of grotesque faces.

Saw Here Lies Love tonight. The venue is too big. The show gets swallowed by it. They should have redone Studio 54 or gone small with Circle-In-The-Square. Everything that made it special at the Public is completely swallowed by this huge yet claustrophobic barn. It's like putting a Broadway show into Madison Square Garden.

[quote]C'mon kids...let's put on a show!

Scab!

Re R25: Joanna Gleason's first husband, Paul G. Gleason, came out as gay in his 70s. That's per her son Aaron's Instagram.

But they divorced in the early '80s.

Love Helen Gallagher. Saw her a number of times on stage. She goes back to the original production of Brigadoon and said it was a bore to do. Even though it was the only show to get 100% positive reviews. I guess everyone knows her from Ryan's Hope which she loved doing. Considering how long she was in Nanette I was surprised she didn't know it was in 3 acts when she had a big number in each act. Have never seen Ryan's Hope. Got the impression she does not suffer fools gladly and hated Gower Champion.

Adored Ruby Keeler. Called her a blue diamond.

R163 Why did Helen G hate Gower Champion? As I type this I can hear her distinctive voice singing “You can dance with any girl at all.”

[quote]What used to be the Antonyo Awards for black achievement are now simply called 'The Awards.' Obnoxioius.

That's so stupid. What's the point.? 'They'll get lost in the shuffle with a generic name like that.

For those who didn’t read the whole graphic, it’s “The Awards Formerly Known as the Antonyos” Reason is that the Tonys threatened litigation over trademark infringement. The “formerly known as…” language is temporary as The Antonyos rebrand themselves.

R166 thank you—and you’ve now shown how several posters above are both illiterate and bigoted.

Excuse me fer livin' but I never read it.

Diversity takes center stage!

[quote] Diversity takes center stage!

The call is coming from inside the house!

Skimming through Helen Gallagher's credits, the only time she seemed to work with Gower Champion was on MAKE A WISH starring Nanette Fabray in 1951, which he choreographed and she played the soubrette role of Poupette. It only lasted a few months.

Also, adored Helen, saw her in SWEET CHARITY as Nikki, NO NO NANETTE both on Broadway and several years later in a touring production in which she played the Keeler role and in a summer stock Gershwin revue also starring Barbara Cook, Harold Lang and Julie Wilson with, I think, a Gershwin theme. Fabulous! She never disappointed.

In the early 70s when I first moved to NYC I'd see her grocery shopping at our W72nd d'Agostino's where her icy stares could freeze a cabinet of Birdseye. She was known even back then for the exclusive classes in musical comedy performance she'd give in her apartment to a select group of students.

Broadway dying might be a good thing, since it's becoming too agenda driven, rather than artistic driven.

Just reading about a new musical scheduled for Broadway this coming season called HOW TO DANCE IN OHIO about a group of young autistic people and the article said it was budgeted at 15.5 million dollars. How can a piece like that with no stars and seemingly simple designs cost so much money??

Here Lies Love is going to lose a fortune.

Word on The Rialto is that a tentative agreement has been made and the IATSE strike that may have occurred beginning on Friday has been averted.

On diversity, I read an interview with a sweet young thing who is about to play Belle in Australia. I forget what her ethnic heritage is, but was struck by her comment, "There's nothing in the script that says she needs to be anything in particular. So why not be whatever?"

So apparently she missed how all the people were saying "Bonjour" to her and baking baguettes in the first song, and how their names are Belle, Gaston, LeFou, Lumiere, etc -- or were these not enough clues for her that the girl is meant to be French?

Look, it's Disney and a fantasy, so who cares what ethnicity anybody in it is, but no wonder we're in Diversity Wars when we are dealing with a generation so stupid they can't even make out cartoon clues about the setting.

[quote]or were these not enough clues for her that the girl is meant to be French?

It's also possible for her to be a Conehead.

And guess what?! There are Black French, Spanish-French, Asian French, Arab French, Persian French and more. Who knew?

Decided to see what might be available for the Sondheim show. The queue just to get into the website were hundreds of people long. Finally got in after about 20 minutes, but when I presessed the "get tickets" link it said "loading." it's still saying loading 25 minutes later. Oh well, I really only want to hear the score anyway, so I guess I don't need to actually see it...

[quote] I'm not expecting Sondheim to have written a masterwork at that late stage of his life.

It will be interesting to see how Sondheim-worshiping critics write bad reviews of his score, should it merit them. The best of any such conflicted review is Frank Rich's Merrily review: "AS we all should probably have learned by now, to be a Stephen Sondheim fan is to have one's heart broken at regular intervals. "

[quote] So apparently she missed how all the people were saying "Bonjour" to her and baking baguettes in the first song, and how their names are Belle, Gaston, LeFou, Lumiere, etc -- or were these not enough clues for her that the girl is meant to be French?

OMFG

[quote]Saw Here Lies Love tonight. The venue is too big. The show gets swallowed by it. They should have redone Studio 54 or gone small with Circle-In-The-Square. Everything that made it special at the Public is completely swallowed by this huge yet claustrophobic barn. It's like putting a Broadway show into Madison Square Garden.

Thanks for that report. I haven't seen the show yet, but I can see how what you say would be absolutely true. I wonder if they considered Circle-in-the-Square as an option? the rap on that place is that you can't make money in it because the seating capacity is relatively small, but maybe they wouldn't have been an issue if they also had a lot of people standing.

Helen Gallagher has a reputation for being incredibly and needlessly rude, at least in recent years, and I experienced that personally not long ago.

She was rude to teenage me in 1974, r183

[quote]Just reading about a new musical scheduled for Broadway this coming season called HOW TO DANCE IN OHIO about a group of young autistic people and the article said it was budgeted at 15.5 million dollars. How can a piece like that with no stars and seemingly simple designs cost so much money??

That show is going to feature seven young people in the cast who are actually autistic, along with a few others who have been on Broadway but you probably wouldn't recognize their names. Of the autistic cast members, one of them lists their pronouns as they/she and is playing a character called "Marideth." So this person checks both the non-binary and differently abled boxes, but I wonder if they are also a POC? Those would be three major boxes!

Gallagher might have been a great performer but a judge of talent, she was not. After Kate Mulgrew left Ryan's Hope, she had three of her students play Mary Ryan, Mary Carney, Kathleen Tolan and Nicolette Goulet. All were disasters.

I remember a story about her. It was a cautionary tale. It might have been Fosse but it was some famous director. He was at a party with a young actress and he pointed to Gallagher and said don't be like her. Everyone hates her and she's at every event trashing everyone and then goes home to her cats.

Phone rings, Door chimes,,,,,,,,,but nobody hears them

Jesus, can you imagine having to sign Getting Married Today?

Does this union agreement reached by IATSE simply mean that there won't be a strike on Broadway but the film and TV wirters' strike still continues?

Yes

They might as well post the closing notice the night of the final preview.

Yes. ^ This is EXACTLY what commercial theatre needs right now.

[quote]Does this union agreement reached by IATSE simply mean that there won't be a strike on Broadway but the film and TV wirters' strike still continues?

I have to ask, why would your or anyone think otherwise, seeing as IATSE has less than zero to do with film and TV writers?

By the way, in case you're confused about this as well, the SAG strike is also continuing.

[quote]Yes. ^ This is EXACTLY what commercial theatre needs right now.

It's neurodiverse! I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say, "If only there were more neurodiverse musicals on Broadway, I wouldn't mind the high ticket prices."

I saw a workshop of this. It was a real chore.

Carlin Glynn has died.

Rumor had it that Gallagher was mean to Dolores Gray (who was also no shrinking violet) during the off-Broadway show Money Talks in 1990. Gray was already beginning to have the memory problems that would lead to her staying out of the public eye after that until her death in 2002. Though her line flubs were mentioned in some reviews, NYT commented, "who would want to memorize this play?"

One has to look twice at the Playbill cover to tell whether it's an artist's rendering of the two headline ladies or a highly styled and much-airbrushed photo.

I’ll hear nothing bad about Maeve Ryan!

I don't know about Gallagher or Gray. But Gwen Verdon was lovely to teenage me, at the stage door of the 46th Street Theater, after a matinee of Chicago in 1976.

[quote]But Gwen Verdon was lovely to teenage me,

Miss Gallagher would have been likely to pull a tap shoe out of her handbag and proceed to beat you senseless with it, r199.

r193, I asked because I was hearing that Broadway shows might strike and I thought that was all about supporting the striking film and TV writers. And as I understand it, IATSE is one of the strongest unions in the US. But was the possible Broadway strike never about supporting the writers' strike?

If you're not in the business (I assume you are) it's all a bit of a jumble of unions strikes.

r201 It wasn't related to the WGA or SAG strikes

They are three separate unions.

They have different grievances and demands.

R201 oh, you don’t have to be in the business to get it. You just need to know how to read basic English. Keep working—you may get there eventually.

R199, same but Chita Rivera treated the teenage me like a son. Loved her ever since. Orbach was an ass and Barney Martin couldn't have been sweeter or more gracious.

The grievances of IATSE and WGA and SAG really don't affect my life enough for me to read about them, r204. Especially when I can come here to get your fabulous summaries of their problems. I'm no longer even interested in seeing much TV or film, let alone Broadway theater,

It’s in the threads—no need to go anywhere. All has been right in front of you on DL.

Such laziness.

[quote] I'm no longer even interested in seeing much TV or film, let alone Broadway theater

Yes, I'm sure your navel is soo0 much more interesting.

"But the wardrobe women have got one, and next to a tenor, a wardrobe woman is the touchiest thing in show business."

What was the last interesting Broadway show you saw, r209?

"The Black Crook."

Gallagher was mean to 25-year-old me in northern California years ago when I was introduced to her by the lovely Harold Lang.

Jerry Orbach was warm and gracious to me in Detroit while sitting in a limo after Granny Get Your Gun. She was cranky, he was friendly.

I told Patsy Kelly she stole the show and Helen lifted her peasant skirt and queefed in my general direction.

R214, I'm sure Patsy ran behind Helen and enjoyed every whiff.

[quote]And as I understand it, IATSE is one of the strongest union in the US

It's even more complicated that that, r201.. It isn't IATSE local one that is striking (which struck in 2007 for 19 days), but IATSE Intl. Those stage hands, known as "pink contracts" are hired by the show, rather than the theater. This strike, were it to happen, would shut down most but not all Broadway shows, and all tours (I think).down

You must have caught Orbach on a bad night, r205. I've worked with him, and he was one of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet.

I think it very likely that the tentative agreement they reached today will work out, because unlike the WFA/ SAG strike, an IASTE strike would immediately put a financial hurt on the League.

[quote]If you're not in the business (I assume you are) it's all a bit of a jumble of unions strikes.

Okay, but IATSE stands for the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees -- i.e., stagehands et al. Maybe you didn't know that, because if you did, I can't imagine why you would have thought that the possibility of their upcoming strike on Broadway would have had anything to do with writers for film and television.

a steal at $9.97!

Wow. Dolores Gray has never looked as manly as she does in that pic. And Gallagher doesn’t even look like herself.

R219. I thought that was Charles Busch.

FUN HOME made money in Circle in the Square. OKLAHOMA! did not.

David Byrne, Alex Timbers and all those HLL producers are far too greedy to have gone to Circle.

I'm pretty sure the 2nd woman on that playbill is Not Helen Gallagher. That show was in 1990.

The cast of Money Talks is very interesting. Two Charles Busch stalwarts. And Hannah who's skirt won't stay down.

Phyllis Stein . . . Dolores Gray

Vivian Newhouse . . . Helen Hanft

Adrienne . . . Judith Cohen

Irma Katzenbach . . . Janet Sarno

Lucille Blumenthal . . . Lucille Patton

Natalie Kilroy Axelrod . . . Helen Gallagher

Morty Drexler . . . Arnie Kolodner

Allan Rothenberg . . . Ted Neustadt

Claudia Stein . . . Julie Halston

Carla Axelrod . . . Jill Wisoff

Cesare Rotini . . . John Braden

That is unquestionably Helen Gallagher.

Helen Gallagher hit me in the head with a fondue pot.

Mostly positive reviews for HEAR LIES LOVE.

The Times/Jesse Green was kinda meh.

God, Conrad Ricamora was so hot in FIRE ISLAND.

[quote]same but Chita Rivera treated the teenage me like a son. Loved her ever since. Orbach was an ass and Barney Martin couldn't have been sweeter or more gracious.

r205 - sorry if you were joking and this went over my head, but it sounds like this wasn't just a stagedoor interaction, but that you actually worked with Chita?? if so, you have to share more!!

I didn't know face apps were around in 1990.

Helen loved Harold Lang who she worked with in Pal Joey.

Glad I never met her and just enjoyed her on stage. But it seems there's still time.

Saw Money Talks. I've never seen anybody as frightened as Dolores Gray was on that stage. Long gone were the days when she kicked Michael Kidd in the balls.

R231, if we’re being truthful, Michael Kidd is the one who slapped Dolores during “Destry” rehearsals… even after they’d done “It’s Always Fair Weather” together at MGM!

Dolores’ MOTHER (the original Mama Grizzly) marched into rehearsal the next day and smacked the man who had the temerity to raise a hand to her dear daughter…

Charles Busch has GREAT stories about “Dot” Gray in rehearsal… she was from an era where she only learned HER lines and the last three words of the line before her cue. Otherwise, she’d face front and wait. When she did “Follies” in London, she ONLY learned the song.

Her mantra during “Money Talks” was, “Sorry. I’m ‘dry.’ Give me ‘THE FEED again…’”

Very Freed Unit.

And as Sondheim said about her after her audition for Follies, “Dolores does TWO things. She sings LOUD and she sings UNDER TEMPO…”

PS: Both Helen and Tammy Grimes auditioned to play Carlotta in the London “Follies.” Vivian Blaine canceled her audition because by that point she had stage fright. They offered it to Chita first, but she asked for too much money.

And Dolores was well known in the UK from AGYG and Gypsy.

I never read that Kidd slapped Gray first. That was left out. It started with the kick in the balls and then Gray's mother slapping Kidd in the face. That really surprises me that Kidd slapped her. I know that Loesser slapped Bigley in the face. What excuse is there for such behavior.

"And if he likes me, who cares how frequently he strikes me?"

It was a different time, r233

I know there have been 50 books written about Sondheim after he passed, but I really wish he would t have written a memoir. U would love to have read his true opinions about everyone he worked with or auditioned for his works.

Michael Kidd gave a wonderful performance as the washed-up choreographer of a beauty pageant in SMILE. This commentator calls out his key role.

P.S. this is an underrated gem of early-mid 70s New Hollywood. One of my favorites…I don’t know if RicksReels covers this movie, but he should.

Didn't Sondheim write a memoir? "Making the Hat" or something?

I seem to recall some people being offended that he was so harsh toward his mentor Oscar Hammerstein.

[quote]this is an underrated gem of early-mid 70s New Hollywood.

"Rotting maggots of death."

“He is a good man, yet I would love him if he abused me or used me ill.”

Has someone looked in on Mrs. Harnick?

"Making the Hat".

Oh, dear.

“You heard he has a temper. He'll beat you every night. But only when he's sober. So you'll alright.”

[quote]How can a piece like that with no stars and seemingly simple designs cost so much money??

$15 million is a relatively small budget for a Bway musical, to be fair.

Broadway ain't cheap.

I remember when it was a big deal that Follies lost its entire $750k investment.

You remember that, but you don't know that M*A*S*H is off the air.

R236 Smile is underrated?

It got great reviews when it came out. And since then I have not seen anyone be critical of it.

It is a pretty highly rated film. Maybe overrated.

Smile is forgotten, not over or underrated. It was not a hit and I saw it when it was released. Kidd has an interesting moment at the end, when it's suggested he was having an affair with one of the contestants.

Lest we forget ...

[quote] And Hannah who's skirt

Oh, dear, R224.

Thanks, R248. I will watch SMILE (but haven't yet).

I saw the movie years ago and it seemed like it would make a really charming, engaging stage musical. I'm curious why it didn't work.

He wrote a collection of lyrics books. I was hoping for a juicy memoir like “original story” where he discussed the drunken fights, backseat blowjobs and fighting with Barbra Streisand.

Arthur Laurents was a cunt but he delivered the goods

I wonder if Barbra will mention me in her upcoming 5000 page memoir.

[quote]I'm curious why it didn't work.

They were unable to find a tonal balance, r250.

[quote]“You heard he has a temper. He'll beat you every night. But only when he's sober. So you'll alright.”

Of course, those lines should not be included as evidence of Harnick presenting women as doormats in some of his lyrics, because when Tzeitel sings those lines in FIDDLER ON THE ROOF, she's purposely trying to scare her sisters with descriptions of the horrible men Yente might find for them to marry.

Bette

The lyrics volumes were as close to a memoir as Sondheim was ever going to write, I think. Given his insistence on criticizing only songwriters who had died, an actual memoir would never have "gone there" about his many still-living collaborators.

I didn't know Butterfly McQueen was the understudy to Addapearle in The Wiz. Her role pre-Broadway was cut. Did anyone see her? She would seem to have been perfect for the role

I think what we will learn about Sondheim will come from friends, family, and enemies who will talk to biographers or write their own memoirs.

Or from our own experiences with him

I just found my new audition song!

Oh blow me r259

Okay, r261, but at least wash that nasty thing first

[quote]I think what we will learn about Sondheim will come from friends, family, and enemies who will talk to biographers or write their own memoirs.

Did Sondheim at least keep a journal/diary?

I knew somebody who I worked with who was not into musicals at all but he had a friend who knew Sondheim very well and they had dinner together. He said Sondheim was quite the bitchy queen. Maybe at dinner with a few drinks in him.

But still he seemed from everything else I've read about him a generous person.

Somehow I think he wasn't a journal kind of person. He probably put all of his creative energy into his music/lyrics. Didn't he once say that the Collected Lyrics volumes were as much of a memoir as we were going to get?

Gang!! How the fuck did we miss this?

Karen Ziemba staring in Doubt??

It’s like a dream that only DL could have cooked up!

Did she insist that they add a banjo solo number?

Love the Karen Z. DLers in/around Aspen should go and cheer her on.

Mr. & Mrs. Felicity Huffman will also be appearing there! It's a golden era.

R267 I have it on good authority that Karen did add a cartwheel right after the “wind has changed” scene

I doubt I’d see any show in Aspen. Unless it was a revival of The Other Side of Aspen.

Leah has a day off scheduled for Sunday. She missed last night and she's out again both shows today. She pulled the same thing about a month ago. Long weekend in the Hamptons?

[quote] [R267] I have it on good authority that Karen did add a cartwheel right after the “wind has changed” scene

I did a cartwheel and BOY, did the wind change!

R271 - I think that is so bizarre. Love her or hate her didn’t Bette Midler have an excellent attendance record for Hello Dolly? If I was Lea and had.a finite time to play my dream role I wouldn’t want to hand my stage time over to my understudy. She doesn’t come across as a sickly woman. I hope that her son is well. … is Ramin K back in the show?

Lea Michele's career was almost ended when she was "canceled" for very good reasons, but against all odds she has been brought back into the fold, partly through the efforts of Jonathan Groff and then the very unlikely circumstances of her taking over the lead in FUNNY GIRL. Considering all of that, one might think she would be humbly grateful for her tremendous good fortune and would have done everything possible to maintain a spotless attendance record in FG, especially considering the fact that she was only contracted for seven performances a week.

But I guess not.

Interesting that when she missed shows early in her run she was very apologetic on social media. Now she doesn't mention it. Ramin, Tovah and Jared were all out at the same time for at least one week. I believe Tovah is back from vacation but not sure about RK.

Who else thinks that Felicity made a sizeable donation to the Aspen theatre company in order to ensure she got to perform in that theatre? Mr. Huffman will feign ignorance when their names show up prominently in the donor list and will once again stand by his woman.

I cut her slack. She didn't waste anybody's time and served hers.

Same, R277. I've never seen Felicity on stage, but have enjoyed her work on screen. She served her time while many, many other people of privilege have gotten away with (mostly, figurative) murder. Time to move on.

The only thing I didn't like Felicity in was her Frasier arc, but that was because the character was such a cunt.

Felicity's next project is The Joan Van Ark Story!

[Quote] Lea Michele's career was almost ended when she was "canceled" for very good reasons, but against all odds she has been brought back into the fold

Enough already.

Smile would have made for an interesting Sondheim musical. And Carmelina might have worked if Marvin Hamlisch wrote the score.

Part of the problem for Marvin was that it was too much like A Chorus Line.

[quote]Enough already.

Enough of what, R281? Mentioning that Lea Michele was canceled for a while, or "enough" of her returning to the fold?

What do you guys know about Nick Rehberger? I would have asked in the broadway sex thread but that seems to be gone now

Carmelina's score was the best part of that wretched show. Hamlisch would not have written a better one.

I always loved the score for A CHORUS LINE. But I'm unimpressed by virtually everything else Hamlisch wrote for stage and screen.

I mean, this is an earworm (and was a hit reccord). But it's complete schmaltz. And it owes a lot to Melissa Manchester's performance.

Even more to the point...

SMILE's just a fun listen...

There are a number of songs from Sweet Smell of Sucess that are wonderful. This is a particular favorite.

Those songs from SMILE and SWEET SMELL are indications of why those shows flopped.

R285-You can thank Urie for that.

"At the Fountain" should have been the number on the Tony Awards. The number "Dirt" was not very persuasive in getting people to see the show.

R292 - as in Michael Urie?? Did something of his leak?

Craig Carnelia wrote lyrics to Hamlisch's music in SWEET SMELL but he's a good composer in his own right. Some of his work is gorgeous. A shame he never had more success with his own original musical.

I like the song at R290.

closing today: CAMELOT, LIFE OF PI, PETER PAN GOES WRONG

^ also Ramin Karimloo’s legs as he’s back in NY

I wonder if, in retrospect, it will be perceived as a mistake on Andrew Burnap's part that he took the role of Arthur in CAMELOT. While I thought he was fine in THE INHERITANCE, I 'm not sure I agree that he deserved a Tony Award for that role, and I think he might not have won the award if he weren't so pretty to look at. As for CAMELOT, I would describe the reviews of his performance as very mixed. I suspect he'll have a good career in film and TV, where good looks tend to be more highly prized, but as for theater, I'm thinking that producers and directors may take a lot more care when casting him in future.

I thought Burnap was horribly miscast as Arthur--more so than the critics, apparently.

Burnap didn't have the voice, the presence, or the gravitas. I blame Sher and Sorkin, who chose to interpret Arthur as some 21st century nerdy incel boy-man. It didn't work for me at all.

I thought this CAMELOT revival was poorly cast across the board, right down to the chorus. (Why are all the Round Table knights so middle-aged and chubby?) I didn't think Phillipa Soo was right as Guinevere, either, but she tried hard, bless her heart.

SWEET SMELL was an overwritten musical about people you didn't give a shit about in a story that felt old and irrelevant (Walter Winchell? Really? )

I don't think Burnap will be blamed for Camelot's failure. He was just fine in a poorly written script. And he justly won the Tony that year. My money is on his having a successful career, especially in the movies.

Burnap has a delightful asshole.

Burnap wears burlap.

While Burnap was very good in The Inheritance, he would have been my third choice for a Tony nomination of the three leads (provided we were limited to one). I thought the other two actors, especially Samuel Levine, did better work (and had meatier roles). I was very surprised that he was the one chosen from the show. That being said, I don't disagree with his win from the pool that was nominated.

Speaking of "Sweet Smell," was that our first exposure to Kelli O'Hara? And WHET Jack Noseworthy?

He died on the Event Horizon expedition

[Quote] a story that felt old and irrelevant (Walter Winchell? Really? )

asinine if it felt old and irrelevant , that’s the fault of the creative team. However, to cite a historic figure to prove your point is ridiculous.

Alan Cumming covering a Lauren Bacall song from APPLAUSE in the Fire Island Pines.

This is gay to the power of infinity.

Cumming here makes me wish they'd revoke his Tony.

Camelot rehearsal

College presentation of" Don't Know Where You Leave Off..." from " Sweet Smell..." presented in the most bizarre outfits. He's very good; she......not so much.

Alan Cumming is one of those people that the industry LOVES and the general public doesn’t.

Most people would find it a travesty that Brian Stokes Mitchell lost for Ragtime…but I bet it wasn’t even close.

I think people in the industry think Alan Cumming is cool…and therefore they are cool if they like him.

See also John Cameron Mitchell.

I reminisced on the Beverly D'Angelo thread about Rockabye Hamlet. I was a kid when I saw it but I thought it was pretty cool and definitely something I thought would appeal to younger audiences. Does anyone else remember seeing it. I also thought the stage design influenced Dreamgirls. It had some nice runs in other parts of the country and I enjoyed hearing the cast album (sans D'Angelo as Ophelia). Maybe an Encores encore?

Saw the cast list at LCT for the final performance of Camelot today, and Burnap was not on it. Did he leave the show?

Well, he has now, r314.

As a member of the general public r312, I love Alan Cumming.

Reading a book on the history of Broadway and it says that those Nederlander assholes leased the Mark Hellinger to that mother-fucking church for 99 years. But I seem to recall hearing that the church subsequently purchased it outright. Anyone know if that’s true?

R316 that's because you're a white, gay liberal. You guys tend to be Anglophiles.

NY NY closing next weekend.

When I was young, I travelled across the country to New York for a big week of theater. Cabaret was just opening, so I went, but I was more excited about Ragtime.

It was astonishing. Alan Cumming had the audience - who was not white, gay liberals who tend to be Anglophiles - in the palm of his hand. The only other performance I have seen close to that was Hamilton right after it opened and the recording hadn’t been released.

Stokes was stiff, paint by numbers, and unsurprising. He was very good. The audience respected him, but was not captivated by him. There was no question in my mind who would win, but my friends back home thought I was crazy.

Donna: I want you to forget you saw me fist Miss Duncan or I will set your house on fire.

Kris: Now that sounds like 100% bullshit!

New York New York should have never opened in the first place. It was shite.

Let's see. Tom Kirdahy produced NY NY and Grey House. And his next is the Sondheim at The Shed. On a roll, baby.

NY, NY is quite bad.

Why you bitches keep talking about a play about my house

Official.

The musical was the costliest swing of the last theater season, with a $25 million capitalization, according to a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission; that money has not been recouped.

This one will go down in the history books: Kander, Ebb, Miranda, Stroman. Someone will write about how exactly they fucked up.

Too many cooks and no Gower, Hal, Bob, Michael or Tommy to sort it out.

[quote] This one will go down in the history books: Kander, Ebb, Miranda, Stroman. Someone will write about how exactly they fucked up.

You left out the main reason the show failed, book writer David Thompson, who also wrote the book for the Kander-Ebb-Stroman disaster "Steel Pier."

Oh, how I'd love to be the one who gets to console both Andrew Burnap and Colton Ryan on their closing shows....

The biggest problem with New York New York was when they released a video of the new female star singing “But the World Goes Round.”

She simply wasn’t a star and it wasn’t a star making performance.

No matter what else goes wrong, when your leading lady is bad…no amount of duct tape will fix the rest.

David Thompson and (wtf) Sharon Washington

[quote]I don't think Burnap will be blamed for Camelot's failure. He was just fine in a poorly written script. And he justly won the Tony that year. My money is on his having a successful career, especially in the movies.

Some of us think he was NOT fine in a poorly written script. And, as I wrote above, I too think he will have a successful career in movies and TV, but maybe not so much on stage in future.

[quote]You left out the main reason the show failed, book writer David Thompson, who also wrote the book for the Kander-Ebb-Stroman disaster "Steel Pier."

Absolutely, 100 percent. And he ALSO conceived and/or wrote the books for THOU SHALT NOT and THE LOOK OF LOVE, two other major Broadway disasters. It really is quite amazing that he keep getting chances to fail upward, but maybe NY, NY will put an end to that.

[quote]Alan Cumming had the audience - who was not white, gay liberals who tend to be Anglophiles - in the palm of his hand. The only other performance I have seen close to that was Hamilton right after it opened and the recording hadn’t been released. Stokes was stiff, paint by numbers, and unsurprising. He was very good. The audience respected him, but was not captivated by him. There was no question in my mind who would win, but my friends back home thought I was crazy.

Comparing those two performances in two such very different roles seems silly and pointless to me. The M.C. is the sort of role in which some performers feel they have license to behave outrageously and overact tremendously. And as much as that applied to Alan Cumming, give a listen to the cast album of the London production with Eddie Redmayne and you will very likely recoil in horror.

I think it's being simplistic to suggest one person or one element of NY, NY is to blame for its failure. That show had a whole lot not going for it.

[quote]Reading a book on the history of Broadway and it says that those Nederlander assholes leased the Mark Hellinger to that mother-fucking church for 99 years. But I seem to recall hearing that the church subsequently purchased it outright. Anyone know if that’s true?

Yes, that's correct. Originally, those assholes leased the theater to the church for 99 years, but later sold it to them outright. Apparently, the only chance we have of getting the theater back as a Broadway theater is that the church seems to be outgrowing it, so they would probably sell it back to the Nederlanders (or to one of the other theater owner companies) for the right price and if they could find a larger space for themselves.

James M. Nederlander, in selling the Hellinger, deliberately priced it way out of reach of all of the many producers and theatre owners who wanted it, which was incredibly spiteful. The late 1980s were a low point for Broadway, but if the Nederlander Organization hadn't been so short sighted and had held onto it for another year or two, it would have been solidly booked for the last 30 years. A gorgeous single balcony musical house with 1500 seats would have been in hot demand.

R335, I don’t disagree that comparing wildly different performances is a challenge, but that is what Tony voters are asked to do. Your point about the MC was not really true until Cummings’ success. Productions of Cabaret mostly folllowed the Hal Prince template, with minor variations on Joel Grey. Commercial revivals of Cabaret and other shows took an auteur turn in the mid 90s.

When Miss Saigon was looking around for a theatre, Nederlander offered the Hellinger, which was only leased at the time. (I suppose there was a way to break the lease.) Anyway, as much as they wanted it, they felt an obligation to Bernie Jacobs and the Shuberts, and went with the Broadway instead.

Pam Blair has passed away. RIP.

[quote]Your point about the MC was not really true until Cummings’ success. Productions of Cabaret mostly followed the Hal Prince template, with minor variations on Joel Grey.

I agree, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. So yes, Alan Cumming and his director(s) deserve the blame for what has become of the M.C.

Why do they deserve blame for the lack of originality and creativity of those who came after them?

Because they put forth the model of the role as the lead above all others -- not least with the shameless coup de théâtre ending the show, which made little sense but certainly gave everyone the chills.

Alan Cumming is to me one of the great frauds of our time.

MARY!!

[quote]Why do they deserve blame for the lack of originality and creativity of those who came after them?

Because they came up with the idea of playing the M.C. as a disgustingly vulgar, off-putting creep, which was NOT the original conception of the role. The M.C. is supposed to be an odd but but alluring figure who seduces audiences into the world of the cabaret. It's hard to be seduced by someone who's always screaming at the audience ("DO YOU FEEL GOOD!!!!!?????) and whose every other word and action is a dirty joke.

Broadway Meets TV Dept:

Somebody upthread trashed Colton Ryan ,Tony nominee for “New York, New York” — he does have a narrow-eyed, sly look that seems simultaneously shifty and sexy. I first noticed him in episode 1.2 of “Poker Face,” where he figured prominently. He was sinister and loser-ish in that but I wanted to fuck him anyway. Did Susan Strohman? I ask because he was new to me as a young character actor guest-starring in a series and then was suddenly starring on Broadway. There HAS to be a story behind that.

And speaking of Bernadette Peters (someone must have been) — did anyone catch her as Patricia Arquette’s mother in Apple +’s “High Desert”? I was happy to see Bernadette, though she didn’t seem to quite fit into the zany-yet-deadpan ensemble, and her face work is quite glaring close-to. Funny series, though, and Arquette was terrific as a drug addict/con woman. Hope it got renewed for season but no one lese I know seemed to be aware of it.

r346 It was cancelled

Thanks for tellin me. Too bad. Of course it got no promotion.

R345, I know what you are talking about. When I saw the video of the opening number with Joel Grey, it was hard to imagine what the intent was. Creepy, off-putting, sleazey.

Mendes production with Cummings made the MC a more alluring and inviting figure. He still had the original's creepy sleazy vibe. But now you had a figure that the audience could imagine getting taken in by.

[quote]Somebody upthread trashed Colton Ryan ,Tony nominee for “New York, New York” — he does have a narrow-eyed, sly look that seems simultaneously shifty and sexy. I first noticed him in episode 1.2 of “Poker Face,” where he figured prominently. He was sinister and loser-ish in that but I wanted to fuck him anyway. Did Susan Strohman? I ask because he was new to me as a young character actor guest-starring in a series and then was suddenly starring on Broadway. There HAS to be a story behind that.

Colton Ryan was on Broadway in DEAR EVAN HANSEN as the understudy for three of the leading male roles. In the film version he played Connor, the boy who kills himself, and he has one musical number in that -- fantasy sequence -- that was a highlight of the movie. Colton also played the young male lead in an Off-Broadway musical called ALICE BY HEART. So he didn't exactly come from nowhere and didn't necessarily need to fuck someone to get the lead in NY, NY, regardless of your lurid imagination.

[quote][R345], I know what you are talking about. When I saw the video of the opening number with Joel Grey, it was hard to imagine what the intent was. Creepy, off-putting, sleazey. Mendes production with Cummings made the MC a more alluring and inviting figure. He still had the original's creepy sleazy vibe. But now you had a figure that the audience could imagine getting taken in by.

R349, your post makes no sense unless you left out an important word and meant to type "I DON'T know what you are talking about." Anyway, let's just say that I DO NOT find the Mendes/Cumming M.C. "a more alluring and inviting figure" than the Joel Grey characterization. Quite the opposite.

Why shouldn't post-Prince directors interpret a role any way they wish?

[quote]Why shouldn't post-Prince directors interpret a role any way they wish?

Way to miss the point, bud. Of course, any actor and director can interpret a role any way they want, but that doesn't mean I or you or anyone else has to accept the interpretation.

Or reject it r353.

Right, any audience member is free to accept or reject an sleazy, vulgar, outrageously overacted interpretation of the M.C., with no subtlety whatsoever. If you found such an interpretation compelling, that tells us you need to be hit over the head with a sledge hammer to get the point.

Looks like Jordan Donica was out of Camelot for the final performance. But Burnap was in.

How ridiculous it is to be arguing about a performance (that is, Alan Cumming's MC) so many years after the fact. And he was just great.

So SPAMALOT is taking the St. James. Why? Did I miss that there's still a huge market for Monty Python fans?

[quote]How ridiculous it is to be arguing about a performance (that is, Alan Cumming's MC) so many years after the fact. And he was just great.

I'm not aware of any statute of limitations on that. I'm pretty sure people still discuss Merman in GYPSY, Martin in THE SOUND OF MUSIC, Cariou and Lansbury in SWEENEY TODD, LuPone in EVITA, Jennifer Holliday in DREAMGIRLS, etc. And, unfortunately, part of the point here is that Cumming's performance has spurred every subsequent M.C. to either imitate him or go EVEN FURTHER in the outrageous sleaze and overacting competition.

[quote]Looks like Jordan Donica was out of Camelot for the final performance. But Burnap was in.

Seems they both missed a lot. I know Burnap blamed it on back problems due to the raked stage. Did Donica have the same complaint, or a different one?

R359, if old queens want to debate those performances ad nauseum, they can go right ahead. And it's not the fault of Alan Cumming if other actors choose to imitate him. He was excellent in the role--maybe that's why the feel the need to.

Yeah, Joel Grey was so unbelievably subtle in the role. And Cabaret had NEVER been revised until Sam Mendes molested it with his naughty Anglophilic direction.

The Prince Cabaret on Broadway in 1987 and landed with a big thud.. 11 years later, Mendes’ version ran for five and a half years. It was successfully revived ten years later. Obviously some people liked it just fine.

Speak of the devil...

Curious why there's all this cunting about Cumming on DL.

On this week's episode of Cunting about Cumming...

Alan Cumming is a multi-talented, fascinating performer who has the comic timing of a master, and the acting chops of the best of them. He'd be perfect to play the titular character in the movie of Stephen Rowley's "The Guncle". And Roundabout should mount a revival of "Hadrian VII" just for him. He's perfect for the role.

Where's his Phaedra...his Lady Macbeth?

[quote]How ridiculous it is to be arguing about a performance (that is, Alan Cumming's MC) so many years after the fact. And he was just great.

Whatever one thinks of Joel Grey's performance, which is preserved on film, it should be noted that "Cabaret" opened on Broadway in 1966. Cummings' level of sleaze would not have been accepted or attempted then. Time marches on.

[quote]It's not the fault of Alan Cumming if other actors choose to imitate him. He was excellent in the role--maybe that's why the feel the need to.

Agreed that it's not his fault if everyone imitates him, but please understand that not everyone agrees he was "excellent" in the role, and some of us feel quite the opposite.

[quote] Cummings' level of sleaze would not have been accepted or attempted then.

MARY R369!

[quote] some of us feel quite the opposite

Who gives a fuck, R370?

[quote]Yeah, Joel Grey was so unbelievably subtle in the role.

Actually, aside from his makeup, which was shocking at the time, the performance does have a lot of subtlety to it, which only makes the outrageous moments more shocking. In contrast, Cumming and his successors have played the role for full-out shock value from the beginning and thereby leave themselves nowhere to go. If you knew anything about acting and theater, you would understand why such an approach is very detrimental to both the character and the show as a whole.

[quote]Mendes’ version ran for five and a half years. It was successfully revived ten years later. Obviously some people liked it just fine.

Yes, and the people who liked it just fine are people like you, who are unable to appreciate any kind of subtext and who have to have EVERY theme and concept in a show sledge-hammered home.

[quote] If you knew anything about acting and theater

[quote] Yes, and the people who liked it just fine are people like you, who are unable to appreciate any kind of subtext and who have to have EVERY theme and concept in a show sledge-hammered home

Well, SMELL Miss Mary R372! She's the ARBITER of ALL things theatuh!

Just what we need…a Gatsby musical.

Aren't there 2 Gatsby musicals? I think there's one at ART?

Hold your nose, then, R374... because there are/will be at least 3 of them.

I shouldn't include the immersive GATSBY at the hotel in NYC: it's actually a play with music.

But I believe there's at least one more in addition to the Florence & Paper Mill productions.

Public domain.... hooray.

[quote]Yes, and the people who liked it just fine are people like you, who are unable to appreciate any kind of subtext and who have to have EVERY theme and concept in a show sledge-hammered home.

Jesus fucking christ. Fine r372. The Datalounge bows down to your superior taste and intellect.

YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT ALAN CUMMING. YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING!

So I'm guessing THE GREAT GATSBY, the novel, just recently fell into the public domain?

R378, don't try to talk reason to that silly old theatuh queen.

My feeling is that is just pointless to point blame at any individual involved in New York New York. It was a bad idea, badly executed.

Well, not a whole lot happens in "The Great Gatsby," when you think about it. Maybe a musical version with a freewheeling patio number could enliven the proceedings.

Correct, R381.

sorry, i meant correct for R379

Jordan Donica is such a strange case.

He gets what is many times considered a dream role and is nominated for a Tony…but then is rarely on. If u listen to interviews he always talks about how lucky he feels to be given this opportunity…and yet he shows his appreciation by not being there.

I think a lot of those involved in this CAMELOT were expecting rapturous reviews and a run at least as long as those of MY FAIR LADY and KING AND I. Reality must have hit them like a brick and caused some of them to fall prey to a number of physical ailments that kept them offstage. Young performers just don't seem to have the hearty professionalism as their elders, alas.

So, if you really like over-the-top performances of the Emcee in Cabaret, you should have spent an evening in Pittsfield for Barrington's recent production.

I don't know what the actor was going for (but the role was performed with conviction and the support of the director) but if you need to see an actor's ass, a jock strap with a swastika and more, including a bizarre accent and late in the 2nd act performed with twitches and shaking, you really missed out!

And btw... the members of the cast included their preferred pronouns with their bios. The Emcees were "any/all"... whatever that meant.

"Reimagined" = Piece of shit.

Camelot has never been, nor will ever be a good show. Time has finally caught up with it, and the jig is up.

I'm sure Aaron Sorkin's dreary rewrite didn't help, R389. Whether "Camelot" can be fixed at all is questionable, but talkier book scenes were definitely not the way to go.

I listened to the original score CD of CAMELOT this weekend. My god, what a gorgeous score! And some of the most clever lyrics ever written (what did Sondheim think , I wonder?). And to hear it sung by Burton, Andrews and Goulet at the height of their powers......we'll never see/hear the likes of that again. I don't care about the show but the music is just simply glorious.

"If I had been the partner of Eve, we'd be in Eden still!"

I'm really tired of hearing how terrible the book to Camelot is. It might not be a great book, but it's certainly servicable. And parts are far better than that, especially the long opening scene with it's three songs. It worked beautifully then and I'm sure it would still work today. The monologue at the end of act one is extraordinary. And the final scene as well. And let's face it, it's better than a lot of the stuff today.

[quote]And let's face it, it's better than a lot of the stuff today.

So is "Moose Murders."

[quote]It worked beautifully then and I'm sure it would still work today. The monologue at the end of act one is extraordinary. And the final scene as well. And let's face it, it's better than a lot of the stuff today.

I was lucky enough to have seen the Shakespeare Theatre, Washington, DC production of CAMELOT in 2018, directed by the wonderful Alan Paul. It stuck mostly to the original script. It had its problems, but the script was not one of them. It's funny, because I heard a rumor back then about Aaron Sorkin and his interest in that production. Not sure if he actually was involved or just an interested bystander but Alan Jay Lerner was still credited with the book and lyrics.

The same Alan Paul who directed the critically dismissed production of Cabaret in the Berkshires?

well, R394, I wish Camelot had been Paul's first production at Barrington...

Sondheim consistently criticized both Lerner and Loewe. He was at best grudgingly accepting (or jealous) of the merits of My Fair Lady.

I am just shocked that people find Cummings MC sleazier than Grey.

Of course, it may just be Princes conception influencing how Grey was seen. When you had women with cat appliques over their vaginas, and the MC goosing the dancers, it is clear that Prince was going for sleazy and shocking.

What could SS possibly have to criticize about Lerner's lyrics for MFL or CAMELOT?

R398 Goosing, you say? How Clutch those pearls.

Camelot should be entirely blamed on Bart Sher for talking a near-comatose Andre Bishop into letting him run the whole enterprise.

In Frank Rich's conversation with Stephen Sondheim, Sondheim had the following to say about why why adapting Pygmalion into My Fair Lady wasn't necessary:

"They painted the lily. They painted it really well, but it's painted."

more:

In the book — which contains much more than just your lyrics and annotations — you make observations about songwriters of the past. I love how you're critical, but you're also incredibly generous. Particularly what you say about Alan Jay Lerner. You call his lyrics "pleasant," "smooth," "polite," but observe that they "lack energy and flavor and passion," and are without "personality." But then you go on to say that My Fair Lady was one of the most entertaining nights you spent in the theatre.

SS: Oh, sure, because, you know, everybody I speak about, there's stuff of theirs that I like, or that I've enjoyed. None of those people are somebody whose work I only deplore. It's the balance of how much you like and how much you don't. Yeah, My Fair Lady was a terrific show.

About the dreadful Camelot, I have gotten the sense that all three leads, but especially Jordan hated doing that show. I bet Jordan has some trouble getting cast now.

R402, one might say the same of A Little Night Music.

R404. That may be true but at least Philippa showed up.

"I saw My Fair Lady, I sort of enjoyed it."

Eeek.

COTTAGE has an extended bit on flatulence. No thanks.

Jordan Roth has sold Jujamcyn to Ambassador Theatre Group. The Queen's reign is over.

However, will she fill her 2 to 3 hours of work a week now?

Let me guess....

All The Cottage reviews are bad to badly mixed.

[quote]COTTAGE has an extended bit on flatulence. No thanks.

Please tell me it's not "immersive."

I love Alan Cumming and I loved him in "Cabaret." I've stated before that I wish Mendes would film a remake of his production with Cumming as the Emcee and Emma Stone as Sally Bowles (who was excellent in the Broadway "re-revival" from a few years ago). I think if done right, it would be very well received and possibly win lots of awards just like the Fosse 1972 original (and hell, since his interpretation has become the de facto blueprint for the show anyway, it may as well be committed to film and live alongside the original in perpetuity).

By the way, R364, given that Cumming and I are the same age, I'd be very curious to see that show.

[quote]YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT ALAN CUMMING. YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING!

Why are some of you queens thrown into hissy fits when someone disagrees with you? We are both entitled to our opinions, and though this may be hard for you to accept, my opinion is worth just as much as yours.

[quote]About the dreadful Camelot, I have gotten the sense that all three leads, but especially Jordan hated doing that show. I bet Jordan has some trouble getting cast now.

Agreed,

[quote]I think a lot of those involved in this CAMELOT were expecting rapturous reviews and a run at least as long as those of MY FAIR LADY and KING AND I. Reality must have hit them like a brick and caused some of them to fall prey to a number of physical ailments that kept them offstage. Young performers just don't seem to have the hearty professionalism as their elders, alas.

Sad, but true.

[quote]Of course, it may just be Princes conception influencing how Grey was seen. When you had women with cat appliques over their vaginas, and the MC goosing the dancers, it is clear that Prince was going for sleazy and shocking.

I really don't think either of those things are equivalent to the simulated fist-fucking and other delightful, whimsical elements of the Mendes-Marshall production.

[quote]I'm really tired of hearing how terrible the book to Camelot is. It might not be a great book, but it's certainly servicable. And parts are far better than that, especially the long opening scene with it's three songs.

Despite some wonderful moments, the book is bad overall, and the book and the lyrics suffer from the same fatal flaw: the tone keeps shifting wildly from one scene to the next, from one song to the next. There are very good reasons why most people don't consider CAMELOT to be among the best of the golden age musicals

Aaron Sorkin missed the boat on his Camelot rewrite.

He should have included, a sleazy MC, the King Kong puppet, a new role for Patti LuPone, and a free wheeling patio number.

Yes, R420....

And the entire cast is playing instruments, and it takes place.... in BOBBY'S BRAIN!

[quote]Sondheim consistently criticized both Lerner and Loewe. He was at best grudgingly accepting (or jealous) of the merits of My Fair Lady.

I heard a live radio interview with Sondheim, Prince and Alan Lerner back in the 70s. The interviewer asked Lerner why hadn't written a big musical in a while. Lerner said, "Him."

Sondheim and Prince pretty much gasped, and one of them said something gracious while the interviewer quickly thought of a new line of questioning. Lerner explained that he thought Sondheim had moved musical theatre on past him. I'm sure that privately Steve agreed completely, but he certainly didn't say so.

Oh please, r416. You accuse others of having hissy fits over artistic disagreements. And yet you say:

[quote] If you knew anything about acting and theater, you would understand why such an approach is very detrimental to both the character and the show as a whole.

And: [quote] Yes, and the people who liked it just fine are people like you, who are unable to appreciate any kind of subtext and who have to have EVERY theme and concept in a show sledge-hammered home.

Get a grip.

[quote]We are both entitled to our opinions, and though this may be hard for you to accept, my opinion is worth just as much as yours.

No it's not.

There was nothing wrong with Bartlett Sher’s production of MY FAIR LADY that replacing Lauren Ambrose, Norbert Leo Butz and Diana Rigg with Laura Benanti, Danny Burstein and Rosemary Harris didn’t spectacularly cure. That revival went from being an inert slog which lacked theatricality, to a fantastic revival of a great show. It was the best illustration that dud casting at the top can suck the life out of any otherwise decent production of a great show.

The wonder is that Sher was allowed to make the same mistakes with CAMELOT, casting actors who may be sincere and committed to their parts, but who are completely lacking in stage gravitas, magnetism and the instinct to become big enough to fill a stage with one’s presence, personality and talent.

Now we have earnest little shows like “Kimberly Akimbo” in which a detailed, carefully worked out performance is enough, no glamour needed or wanted. But when you’re mounting the kind of classic musical which was written for major stars or made stars of the original performers, you need actors of temperament, ego and an innate love of show biz razzmatazz. Instead they shrink and shrug in roles too big for them and we in the audience go right down the drain with them.

So what was the end review of Jordan Donica? Was he one of the best things about the show, or was he one of the worst?

How was Jordan Donica's afro dealt with in MFL? It wasn't dealt with much at all in CAMELOT. I thought the performance of his songs in the latter was quite bombastic, nothing romantic or sexy there.

Camelot's original book may be problematic, but that hasn't stopped many actors over the years from helming major productions that seem to have been successful: Richard Harris, Laurence Harvey, Robert Goulet, Richard Burton (again), Michael York, etc. I think most audiences were willing to sit back and enjoy the music, the pageantry, and those several scenes that worked brilliantly (including the final one, that Sher botched badly.) Had Lincoln Center left well enough alone and stuck to Lerner's work, the show may still be running.

r419, how do you think the tone of the book and score of CAMELOT "keeps shifting wildly from one scene to the next"? I don't see any more discordant tonal shifts in the original or this revival than most Golden Age musicals.

However, one of my problems with the Sorkin/Sher reworking is the kingdom of Camelot never seems to get established as an idyllic peaceful place for the harmony to be infiltrated by baser motives. It all looks consistently like MACBETH; even "The Lusty Month of May" looked depressing and gloomy. A few tonal shifts might have been helpful.

Richard Burton and Julie Andrews in the first scene of Camelot (on the Ed Sullivan Show) are DIVINE, particularly Burton. His "sword in the stone" speech might as well be Shakespeare.

r425, I'd add that the MFL production was blessed throughout the run by Harry Hadden-Paton, who was the best Higgins I've seen (although I missed Mr. Harrison).

But Julie later said, after that first scene, the audience slowly came to loathe the show.

I don't know about Danny Burstein, but Laura Benanti absolutely saved My Fair Lady.

Donica either had shorter hair or wore a piece in MFL. He looked quite dashing and was an excellent Freddy.

R431: Agree that Harry Hadden-Paton was excellent in MY FAIR LADY, but even so, opposite Ambrose he didn’t quite connect or inhabit the role, yet with Benanti, he enlarged his voice, presence and confidence and was wonderful. Which made me realize he had been working hard to keep from over-powering Lauren Ambrose, because he could have easily blown her off the stage.

R426: I didn’t think Jordan Donica deserved his Tony nomination. He is very tall and has a big voice, which might have fooled Tony nominators into thinking he had more stage presence than the others. But he didn’t, he never seemed romantic and there was no chemistry between he and Soo.

[quote]And the entire cast is playing instruments, and it takes place.... in BOBBY'S BRAIN!

Don't forget " reimagined for a contemporary audience." It would have been a success had the cast been gender-swapped.

[quote]Camelot's original book may be problematic, but that hasn't stopped many actors over the years from helming major productions that seem to have been successful: Richard Harris, Laurence Harvey, Robert Goulet, Richard Burton (again), Michael York, etc. I think most audiences were willing to sit back and enjoy the music, the pageantry, and those several scenes that worked brilliantly (including the final one, that Sher botched badly.) Had Lincoln Center left well enough alone and stuck to Lerner's work, the show may still be running.

Agreed 100 percent. They could have simply presented the edited version of CAMELOT that wound up becoming a hit on Broadway when Moss Hart made all of those cuts after returning to the show following his heart attack, and perhaps have made some minor additional cuts -- but not two thirds of "How to Handle a Woman," the final chorus of "What Do the Simple Folk Do?" (which contains the whole point of the song), etc. And though Lerner's book is indeed problematic, Sorkin's is worse.

I'm a big Laura Benanti fan and I was thrilled that she finally got her dream role, but I was so underwhelmed by her performance in My Fair Lady. Her regrettable attempts at the accents were not up to snuff and that's such a central part of the role. And, in book scenes several of her reads felt way too contemporary, like smart, snide asides from a sitcom. It was like she was commenting on the role, rather than playing it. Perhaps she was trying something out the night I saw the show, but it wasn't working.

Rosemary Harris was delightful. I got to see Harry Hadden Patton's understudy or standby. I wish I remembered his name because he was spectacular. The first time I wasn't thinking about Rex Harrison's shadow looming over the role.

[quote]How do you think the tone of the book and score of CAMELOT "keeps shifting wildly from one scene to the next"? I don't see any more discordant tonal shifts in the original or this revival than most Golden Age musicals.

Tonal shifts are fine in themselves, and yes, they are a plus for a show if they're skillfully done, as in FIDDLER ON THE ROOF and a hundred others we could name. But I've always thought Lerner never really decided what kind of a show he wanted to write with CAMELOT. For example, Guenevere's "Simple Joys of Maidenhood" and "Take Me to the Fair" sound like songs that would work in a light, wry, spoofish musical comedy version of CAMELOT, something along the lines of A CONNECTICUT YANKEE IN KING ARTHUR'S COURT. Similarly, "C'est moi" is the song of a cartoonish, pompous character from a satirical musical -- and then, over the course of a scene or two, Lancelot quickly morphs into a serious, full-on romantic lead. There's a similar issue with Mordred's humorous little ditty about "The Seven Deadly Virtues" as sung by a character who then goes on to cause a war and destroy Camelot. I'm really surprised if you don't see these huge tonal shifts as problematic.

Agree, r435. I saw HHP twice with two different Elizas. In the first he was just fine, the second an absolute delight. Whether it was because he just settled into the role or was sparked by a better leading lady, I don't know.

Those MY FAIR LADY performances may not have worked for you, R425 -- I loved Ambrose and Rigg but thought that Butz, whom I've mostly adored in everything else, didn't find a way to make Dolittle happen -- but they weren't some sort of millstone weighing the show down. It was a well-established hit well before Benanti and Harris came on board.

I thought that Benanti sounded great and was very funny but (as someone else noted above) was clueless with the accent work, which is a serious problem in this show. Harris was of course divine. Unfortunately, I saw Burstein's understudy, who was OK but nothing special.

r438, everything you say about Benanti's performance in MFL I would make the exact same criticism of her performance in the Roundabout's last SHE LOVES ME. I don't really think Benanti is capable of sincere vulnerability or a period sensibility (whatever the period).

Loved loved Harry H-P in MFL. I agree with R431, he is the best Higgings I've seen. Makes me appreciate what he did in Downton even more.

Benanti’s best work was in that Amy Schumer tv show where she played her mother.

I thought she was good in Gypsy. I think people were surprised she could scream at Patti on stage in such a way at the end

Benanti played Amy Schumer's MOTHER?

[quote] It was the best illustration that dud casting at the top can suck the life out of any otherwise decent production of a great show.

I can think of a better one.

LCT, ROUNDABOUT and MTC are all in serious financial trouble. The end of the Broadway non-profits? Will LCT end up like Roundabout and just leasing their space to commercial producers?

Sad but true, r447. I wonder what Lynne and Andre make of Todd's death and if they'll go out the same way.

The enormous success of Barbie and Oppenheimer just goes to prove that audiences will come out and sit in a crowded theater if you give them what they want. Obviously, they're movies not shows but it's the same principle.

[quote]Will LCT end up like Roundabout and just leasing their space to commercial producers?

Considering the way the Roundabout functions, I've always been amazed that they have gotten away with maintaining not-for-profit status for so long. And now that, for the past several years, they have really been operating more as a landlord than a not-for-profit theater, I find that even more incredible.

R447, you didn't mention Second Stage. I have the impression that they are in serious financial trouble as well. No?

Scott Rudin destroyed Roundabout when he figured out how to do high end Broadway star stock, which Roundabout had previously had a lock on. Like the National in London, they got major talents to work for dirt for Tony nominations and a Broadway spotlight. Rudin gave stars all that with real money, and Roundabout began losing gas.

[quote] Benanti’s best work was…

…as Times Square Fosca

Times Square Fosca

Those non-profits can choose to stop shoving diversity crap down people's throats and go back to scheduling plays audiences will actually come out to see if they want to stay afloat. Leave the diversity to the Public Theatre.

Diversity is fine. The problem is when diversity trumps quality. There was yet another article in the New York Times recently about the spate of regional theaters, closing or threatening to close. This article, like so many others, refuses to address the elephant in the room: that theaters are programming second and third rate material because it checks off diversity boxes. I applaud the goal, but audiences will only take good intentions over excellence for so long.

Just like seeing an M. Night Shamalan film where the surprise ending is no surprise ending at all, having a Broadway show with the original script and songs and not " updates" or re-conceived with non-intended original casting would be a surprise ( even a shock); a pleasant one. Producers really don't know their audiences, but want to seem like the smartest people on the block by changing things just to seem trendy or appeal to an audience who will never even come to see the show, the social media mavens. I'd bet that a return of " The Sound of Music" with no gimmicks, trans nuns, black Nazis, or re-conceived script, would be a major hit. But, producers won't touch it.

^ non-intended casting

R450 are you saying there is financial malfeasance at the Roundabout?

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1975, "A Chorus Line" opened at the Shubert Theatre.

And THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 2023, "Back to the Future" opened at The Winter Garden.

Sad, sad, sad.....

[quote]Are you saying there is financial malfeasance at the Roundabout?

NO, I didn't mean financial malfeasance. I would have no way of knowing that. I meant that ever since they got their first Broadway house (at the Criterion Center), they have acted very much like a commercial Broadway production company -- except that they get away with paying the actors and others at a non-profit rate that's much lower than a Broadway production contract. And in more recent years, as I mentioned, they have rubbed salt into the wound by behaving more as a landlord than as a production company.

[quote]THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1975, "A Chorus Line" opened at the Shubert Theatre.

Sort of. That’s the day it started previews at the Shubert. The official opening was supposed to be in late September, but because of the musicians’ strike, it officially opened on October 19, 1975.

[quote]And THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 2023, "Back to the Future" opened at The Winter Garden.

[quote]Sad, sad, sad.....

Gay, gay, gay.....

The DeLorean is an insatiable bottom

R442 - Actually... I really liked that She Loves Me revival including, yes, Benanti's performance.

Ugh.

Benanti had zero vulnerability in that production.

I wonder: Should Sally Bowles have a good singing voice?

I enjoyed her acting, which was a brittle take on Amalia that I thought worked. There are reasons Georg and Amalia are alone. But when she sang, everything was about pear shaped vowels and legato phrasing. So her hidden interior felt artificial and fake.

Levi, Krakowski,,and Creel’s just actively sabotaged their characters whether singing or acting.

I don't know, R468. Should Sally wear green to the reunion?

Sorry, Other Sally, obviously.

Should Sally proclaim her feelings for Linus?

“I’m the Chosen Party Giver for the White House Cliental …”

R469, what you heard as "pear-shaped vowels" sounded to me like desperate vowel modification in order to manage the upper end of that music. Bizarrely, I've yet to see it noted in reviews of her, but to my ears she hasn't sounded fully comfortable in truly soprano tessitura for a while.

R473 -- "Cliental"?

Oh, dear.

Interesting, R474. I think Benanti still sounds completely comfortable in soprano tessitura, and I think those very weird vowel sounds and pronunciations are all about affectation. She has been singing that way for quite some time, and she's still pretty young, so I don't think it has anything to do with deterioration of her voice or that she never was a true soprano, if that's what you're saying.

R461, you said that you were surprised that they maintained their non-profit status. Your complaints are that they use their non-profit status, which is the point of having it.

You do not get your non-profit status taken away because you use it. Only financial misdeeds makes it go away,.

A non-profit status also relies on your obligation to fulfill the mission that got you that status in the first place. If you're just renting your theaters to commercial productions, it's a reasonable question to ask if you are honoring your mission. And yes, I believe churches should be taxed. And it's' debatable that The Shubert Organization is under a Foundation, so it doesn't pay taxes.

^ Your naivete is showing.

They can easily show that they operate for their stated purpose..subcontracting out to other producers notwithstanding.

So I guess Roundabout or LCT could rent out their spaces if they don't make a profit from the rents?

And what is Roundabout's stated purpose?

To produce badly directed classics with miscast has-been stars in the leads and pay everyone shit.

Artistic: play production, training, workshops

Education and Community Outreach: school programs, discount programs, senior and minority programs.

Historical: Archives, video library, manuscript, costumes.

Roundabout is producing 4 new plays this season on Broadway and off and two revivals.

Roundabout will forever be known on Datalounge as the company that revived FOLLIES in 2001.

We had Blythe Danner, gamely “singing” while bumping into chorus boys

We had Polly Bergen settling scores and stopping shows

We had Judith Ivey, “singing” Losing My Mind.

We had it all!

You left out Pepto Bismol pink, r485. I also saw their Company. As one critic wrote, the original was a gimlet and the Roundabout production a white wine spritzer.

And don’t forget their horrid revisal of Boys From Syracuse…right after the triumphant Encores production that used the original script.

[quote]A non-profit status also relies on your obligation to fulfill the mission that got you that status in the first place. If you're just renting your theaters to commercial productions, it's a reasonable question to ask if you are honoring your mission.

Thank you, R478. Odd that R477 thinks financial mafeasance is the only reason why an organization might lose its non-profit status, or might not have deserved it to begin with.

[quote]They can easily show that they operate for their stated purpose..subcontracting out to other producers notwithstanding.

I don't agree with that, and if it is true, I think the whole thing is a scam.

You misunderstand what 501c3 status means. It doesn’t dictate what you do, generally, it dictates what you do with the proceeds of what you do.

Their stated purpose could be nothing more than support theater and use any net “profit” to support more theater. Even something that vague, or basic, is perfectly valid.

Read and make your own conclusion…

As theatre gossip goes, talking about a theatre's tax status is pretty FUCKING DEADLY.

Can we move on, ladies?

Hey I was just trying to be charitable ;)

…to the numnut posters with a misunderstanding of nonprofits l.

[quote]You misunderstand what 501c3 status means. It doesn’t dictate what you do, generally, it dictates what you do with the proceeds of what you do. Their stated purpose could be nothing more than support theater and use any net “profit” to support more theater. Even something that vague, or basic, is perfectly valid.

As I said, I don't doubt you, but if what you say is true, then I think that's very fishy -- especially now that Roundabout is so frequently acting as a landlord rather than a production company. How can a company deserve not-for-profit status if they're so often renting their theaters to commercial productions? The very least they should be doing is producing their own shows, even if those shows themselves have all the trappings of commercial productions.

And when you say that 501c3 status doesn’t dictate what you do "generally," what do you mean by "generally?"

Saw NYNY this afternoon primarily to see if Colton Ryan is as bad as a friend of mine insists he is. Alas, he must have had the my-show-is-closing-so-I don't-give-a-shit blues. Or he just wanted to give his understudy a break. That fellow, Mike Cefalo hit all the marks, but no star was born. But oh! so much talent and so much money expended on so many empty calories. What a waste.

R495. The standby for Francine was on last night. I have a feeling the leads were being gracious and let their understudies go on one last time. Can you imagine Bitch Bacall doing that?

Gretch!

Hubba hubba Gretch. Lookin’ pretty sleek there.

Gretch

R494, a lot of non-profits rent out their facilities. Especially those that have performing arts venues. There is nothing unusual or odd about that.

A lot of non-profits make a lot of money. Again nothing wrong about that.

A lot of non-profits have joint projects with for-profit companies. Nothing wrong happening.

If they are being used as a tax shelter or paying dividends to shareholders, Any "profit" a non-profit makes must go back into activities related to its mission. So the Roundabout could rent its space out for huge amounts of money as long as the money goes into it mission-related activities.

The Public Theater has made a fortune with its commercial transfers starting with A Chorus Line and continuing up through Hamilton. But that money is going to pay for the work down on Lafayette Street, the Delacorte, and its touring productions that a presented free throughout the boroughs.

I am guessing that the money from its rentals and it hits goes to pay for the many less commercial plays that it produces, its play development programs. and its education-related projects..

^^That last paragraph is about The Roundabout.

Thank you R500. Let’s hope this thread’s idiocracy catches the drift, finally, so we can revert to Broadway bitchery.

The Public has never been a producer on any of its Broadway transfers and that includes HAIR, ACL and HAMILTON. They do make a hefty royalty on a Broadway transfer, which translates into several million dollars a year, but it's nothing compared to what actual producers and lead investors make on the same show.

R503 missing the point…again?!

Again??

I've barely commented on this issue except for my witty response at r482, r504.

Your post stands on the shoulders of earlier ill-conceived posts. ;)

[quote]A lot of non-profits rent out their facilities. Especially those that have performing arts venues. There is nothing unusual or odd about that.

A non-profit renting out their facility for one-off events is a completely different situation from a not-for-profit theater company, which is supposed to be producing its own shows, frequently and regularly renting out its facilities for extended runs of commercial productions. Do you not understand the huge difference?

[quote]The Public Theater has made a fortune with its commercial transfers starting with A Chorus Line and continuing up through Hamilton. But that money is going to pay for the work down on Lafayette Street, the Delacorte, and its touring productions that a presented free throughout the boroughs.

Yes, and I would say that, when the Public has done this, it has behaved in a way that's appropriate for a not-for-profit theater company. A far different situation from the Roundabout consistently and often renting out its facilities to highly commercial productions.

[quote]I am guessing that the money from [the Roundabout's] rentals and it hits goes to pay for the many less commercial plays that it produces, its play development programs. and its education-related projects.

I'm not really familiar with the extent of their play development programs and their education-related projects, but it seems to me their very few "less commercial" plays are all presented at the Laura Pels and the black box space in that theater, certainly not in one of their Broadway houses.

Insufferable

[Quote] I'm not really familiar with the extent of their play development programs and their education-related projects

Well, then, you’re certainly qualified to comment

[quote]Well, then, you’re certainly qualified to comment

Yes I am, because I was commenting on the Roundabout's continued renting out of their spaces to commercial productions, which doesn't seem to me to be in line with the way a not-for-profit theater should function.

Like clockwork, and certain as the sun rising in the east, R508 labels me "insufferable" whenever I include more than one quote and response in one of my posts -- even if they're all on the same subject. For some reason, that sends him into an absolute tizzy. But frankly, if it annoys him so much, that's only a plus as far as I'm concerned.

Tell us about this one, Eldergays

Swen Swenson...

"The play relied on a number of nude scenes to run three months."

Ya think?

I don't find much about David Gaard, the playwright of "And Puppy Dog Tales," but here's a synopsis... Set just before the Stonewall riots in New York. Budd a 22 year old is visiting New York and looks up his high school best friend, John. John is now living with his male lover and Bud has to confront his own sexual ambivalence.

Sounds interesting. Via google, there are images available from different Gaard productions... off, off-off Broadway did indeed enjoy its male nudity in the 1960s, 1970s.

[quote]The Public has never been a producer on any of its Broadway transfers and that includes HAIR, ACL and HAMILTON

IBDB has the Public listed as producers on Hair and Hamilton

Who cares what the credit was. The earned a large income as the launching pad for money-making shows. They used that extra income to help finance their continuing mission. That’s what a nonprofit does. Duh.

It has always been my understanding that, whatever the credit, the Public made comparatively very little money on the Broadway transfer of HAIR, and they were determined not to let that happen again, so they inked different deals that made them A LOT more from the transfers of ACL and HAMILTON.

Yet, clearly if The Public was making so much money from HAMILTON they wouldn't have had to cancel their Under the Radar season, do only one show at the Delacorte this summer and fire 20% of their staff.

Clearly not.

The Public earning income on a lucrative show while also losing large sums on other shows are not mutually exclusive propositions.

[quote]The Public earning income on a lucrative show while also losing large sums on other shows are not mutually exclusive propositions.

Of course not. And also, of course, there are lots of other reasons why they might be losing huge sums of money to more than offset what they're getting from HAMILTON. R519 is apparently unable to understand the complexities of situations like this and can only see things in black and white. Which is unfortunate, as most things in life are gray.

[quote] Like clockwork, and certain as the sun rising in the east, R508 labels me "insufferable" whenever I include more than one quote and response in one of my posts -- even if they're all on the same subject. For some reason, that sends him into an absolute tizzy. But frankly, if it annoys him so much, that's only a plus as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe he called you “insufferable” because you’re extremely verbose without actually saying anything.

But it’s nice to know you do it just to piss others off. That does explain a lot.

R522, I commented on why I think the Roundabout doesn't behave like a non-for-profit theater company, as compared to the Public Theater, which does, in my opinion. I made three brief comments, far from "verbose." And of course I don't make multiple comments in one post "just to piss others off." What I said was, it's a nice fringe benefit that R508 gets so annoyed when I do so.

Team r508!

Thank God we're not talking about " Follies."

r512 Blanche's husband directed a gay play? This explains so much!

I would imagine the Public made a nice amount of money from their transfer of Pirates of Penzance from Central Park to Broadway. I believe that ran for years. I wonder if Gilbert and Sullivan are public domain now so no royalties required. The Public didn't do so well on their transfers of On The Town, Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson, and The Human Comedy, though. I do love the score to the latter show.

I don't know the details, but I'm pretty sure the Public had different levels of involvement in producing the Broadway transfers of various shows that started there. For example, I believe they were heavily involved as producers of the Broadway transfer of ON THE TOWN, and they lost so much money on that one that the loss was partly responsible for the departure of George C. Wolfe.

The Shakespeare Festival version of THE PIRATES OF PENZANCE moved to Bway for 787 performances, almost 2 years, between Jan 1981 and Nov 1982.

It won Tonys for Best Actor (Kevin Kline), Best Director (Wilfred Leach), and "Reproduction (Play Or Musical)."

Don't forget The Public's Broadway transfer of TAKE ME OUT! They didn't just transfer mindless musicals.

Of course you don’t find yourself insufferable. You just like to inflict it on the rest of us.

[quote]Young performers just don't seem to have the hearty professionalism as their elders, alas.

R386 that's because ultra-liberalism (aka 'woke'), which has become rampant in the arts, is teaching kids that *hard work* and the concept of *the show must go on* is synonymous with 'capitalism,' 'white supremacy,' and 'toxic masculinity,' because it is usually white men who are competitive, taskmasters, and perfectionists..

Thus, professionalism is not encouraged/enforced and the result is lazy, apathetic young performers.

Or they've decided to show employers the same amount of loyalty that the employers have towards them

[quote]Or they've decided to show employers the same amount of loyalty that the employers have towards them

Don't you think it's a gross generalization to suggest that producers (and directors) are generally disloyal to the performers in their shows?

The Public was indeed a full producer in ON THE TOWN, HAIR and BLOODY BLOODY ANDREW JACKSON. OTT got GCW fired and BBAJ got their last Executive Director fired. Oskar had Bway ambitions and wanted to play in the big leagues, a la Papp but neither Hair nor BBAJ returned their investment so the Board finally instituted some controls. They couldn't fire the AD, so the blame fell to the ED when they were both to blame. Prior to that, like most NFP boards, they existed merely to rubber stamp whatever the management team wanted to do. But taking almost half a million of the Public's money and investing it in a risky Bway play was too much. For subsequent shows, they are listed as producers but do not invest the theater's money. Oskar has now risen like a phoenix and viewed as the savior of the Public when in reality, it was HAMILTON. They are making 10-15 Million a year on HAMILTON. It is UNCONSCIONABLE that they canceled UTR (a program that cost 1/2 Million of their $50+ million budget but employed and raised the visibility of hundreds of artists) and laid off staff but continued with a multi-million dollar renovation for the Delacorte.

Remember when there was one understudy covering multiple roles and performances rarely if ever had to be cancelled because an actor was MIA? The original ACL went on during a particularly bad flu season that sidelined several cast members and rather than canceling and disappointing the audience a few roles were omitted and other cast members picked up their lines, songs etc. The show must go on is a thing of the past.

[quote]Young performers just don't seem to have the hearty professionalism as their elders, alas.

If it doesn't come easily, just move onto something else. Commitment isn't as important as your feelings. No one will hold you responsible, so don't worry; if they do, get on social media and cause them trouble. That's what they get or disrespecting you!

Who was the fired ED at The Public? Was that Michael Hurst?

[quote] It is UNCONSCIONABLE that they canceled UTR (a program that cost 1/2 Million of their $50+ million budget but employed and raised the visibility of hundreds of artists) and laid off staff but continued with a multi-million dollar renovation for the Delacorte

You have no idea the needs regarding the renovation. It's not like when you re-did your parlor with new Erte wallpaper and Raymour &Flanigan fainting couch. There may be structural, accessibility, ventilation, plumbing etc issues.

r534 Funny how you didn't whine about gross generalisations when it's an entire generation of people being stereotyped. Just when it comes to those poor producers.

And no, I don't believe for a second that the producers who go on about how people need to sacrifice would ever sacrifice anything themselves for their employees. Hell, just look at the holiday season schedules for proof of that.

R539, I'm fully aware that the Delacorte needs renovating. The dressing rooms are a horror and in general, the backstage area needs to be updated as well as the deck. I'm saying that it could have waited a year and use some of that money to keep your staff employed or to keep the Under the Radar Festival going. The Delacorte could survive another season as is. The Public seems to always prioritize their real estate over people. The last capital campaign was all about the public facing spaces, no money towards the downtown backstage areas or dressing rooms. 400K spent on a chandelier for the lobby. Not once was a thought put into using any of that money to pay actors more or increase anything that would make the backstage crew or performers's lives better.

[quote]They didn't just transfer mindless musicals.

Sometimes they transfer mindless plays.

I've worked at the Delacorte three times over the years. It's primitive but that's the fun of it.

Andrew Rannells was tested on Broadway and book title trivia on the Today Show:

Oh, she lost the baby weight.

Rannells does look trim... but a little waxy. He's got an odd boyish face that is aging.... strangely.

"Broadcast musicals"?

When does 'Y'All Are Racist Motherfuckers" start previews?

Is that playing at the St. James or the Imperial?

The Rannells clues couldn't have been easier.

There's a Vulture article about the impact of the strikes on actors, and the delusion of whoever this actress is is quite something:

[quote]One thing that’s unfair right now is A-listers working on theater gigs. A big agency told me that for the next fall programming in New York, everything is booked. You don’t have access to even audition because a lot of these TV actors are available. I am used to it because that’s our industry. It’s no surprise to be in a room where Meryl Streep’s daughter is auditioning for a theater project. But the difference right now is I would say the A-listers should not get theater jobs. I see the greediness and the need to be relevant. In this moment, theater would be the saving grace for the working actor. Before taking any theater jobs, think about who’s not getting that job who could make a living.

The idea that A listers are crowding out regular actors for parts, as if they're showing up to cattle call auditions?

Also, an immigrant actress, 10 years in the industry, first did theatre but then got a TV series role that became recurring guest star - someone should be able to work out who this idiot is

R551 whoever it is must hate Meryl Streep’s daughter.

Does Debra Winger have any relatives that live abroad?

Hong Chau’s monologue in “Downsizing.”

Wrong thread

Rannells had work done much too young, and now his face is getting weird.

[quote]Rannells had work done much too young, and now his face is getting weird.

That's not surprising. In interviews, etc., he comes across as a total narcissist.

New immersive show called You Fucking Suck I Hate You, wherein the multi-diverse cast gets to mill among the audience and select attendees to punch, kick, slap, spit on, piss on, scream at and otherwise abuse old white men, all straight men, white people, thin people, Karens, and cis people.

Damn, you morons have a persecution complex

I always wonder about busy theater actors who disappear from the scene. Where is Amy Spanger, ,for example? She made such a splash, Last I heard, she’s she was an occasional Roxie. Sherie Rene Scott? James Carpinello?

Luba Lisa?

Luba Lisa died on December 15, 1972, in a plane crash near Colchester, Vermont. The plane was on its way to an airport in Burlington, Vermont. Winter weather hazards during night travel were thought to have caused the crash. All four on board (the pilot, Lisa, and two others) perished. She is interred with her parents at Mount Ararat Jewish Cemetery in Farmingdale, New York.

Steve Kazee?

Jenny Powers?

Anthony Heald?

James Carpinello turned up in an episode of SVU last season, he played a skeevy lifeguard supervisor.

Assuming you mean Luba Mason and I have no idea what she's up to.

Bless your heart, r566.

R510, I really am enjoying the lengths you go to parade your ignorance.

Look across the country. Outside of New York, most theater companies and virtually all performing arts centers are non-profits. And they do rent out their venues often for long runs.

There is nothing that says a non-profit cannot rent its facilities out to a commercial production. There is nothing that says they cannot do it for years at a time. As long as the money they make is spent properly.

Non-profit status is about how you spend the money you make. There is little or no restrictions on earned income.

So a theater can have concessions. They can have an on-site restaurant. They can sell T-shirts. They can sell kitchen-magnets. They can rent out their venue. They can rent out their mailing list. They can show exhibits. They can rent out space to a cafe. They can hold a gala charging thousands of dollars a plate.

You do not seem to object to most of these activities, even though they are just as "off-mission" and "commercial" as the rental of the theater.

So I think what you object to is not the activity itself. Rather you object to the amount of money they are making from it.

I'm not r510, but I think the objection here to a non-profit theatre company renting out their space to commercial producers is it shows their lack of creative output and therefore seems adverse to their mission and purpose.

It's NOT the same as all those other things you mention which are all money-making schemes in support of the creative output of the theater. While renting the space out makes money for the theater, one has to question why the theater is not producing art of their own to raise that money. I realize it's legal, it just doesn't seem appropriate. And I think it would even be understandable if space was rented out for a night, a weekend, or a week or two, but NOT for weeks or months (even years!) at a time, as Roundabout has done.

Surely, you can see that point of view, r568.

Stop now—

Grease 🔥

Theater is in enough of a rough economic state right now. Why impose purity tests on how they earn money to keep themselves going?

R569, you might not have noticed, but the Roundabout still produces a season, even when one of their theaters is rented.

Your trolling is slipping. Originally your objections were based on bad logic. But now they are not based on any logic at all.

[quote]I'm not [R510], but I think the objection here to a non-profit theatre company renting out their space to commercial producers is it shows their lack of creative output and therefore seems adverse to their mission and purpose. It's NOT the same as all those other things you mention which are all money-making schemes in support of the creative output of the theater. While renting the space out makes money for the theater, one has to question why the theater is not producing art of their own to raise that money. I realize it's legal, it just doesn't seem appropriate. And I think it would even be understandable if space was rented out for a night, a weekend, or a week or two, but NOT for weeks or months (even years!) at a time, as Roundabout has done.

Exactly. Thank you for understanding and explaining my point. I thought I had made myself clear, but apparently, R68 is unwilling or unable to understand.

Bottom line: However one feels about the quality of Roundabout productions, there was a time, not so long ago, when the the company produced every one of the shows they presented in their several venues. But now, they FREQUENTLY rent out their theaters to commercial productions, and the company produces FAR FEWER of its own shows than it used to. In my opinion, it's just not cricket for a not-for-profit theater company to function that way, even if it is completely legal.

[quote]You might not have noticed, but the Roundabout still produces a season, even when one of their theaters is rented.

Oh, really? Where do they produce "a season?" The most recent two shows at Studio 54, PICTURES FROM HOME, and THE MINUTES, were rentals to commercial productions. The last show produced by the Roundabout at the Sondheim to date was ANYTHING GOES in 2011. Their last real gasp on Broadway seems to be the American Airlines, but even if you look at those shows, most of them are imports from elsewhere produced "in association with" the Roundabout, such as FAT HAM and 1776. So the only place where they still produce anything close to "a season" is the Laura Pels, which of course is an Off-Broadway venue.

But, my apologies, "you might not have noticed" any of that.

ZZZZZZZZ

We asked you stop, politely…you’ve really worn out your welcome with your very much singular view of what a non-profit theater might do. Suck eggs.

I love the pretzels he is twisting himself into. Now off-Broadway does not count as a season.

Everytime someone shows that he is wrong he puts another limitation. Now he has decided to exclude off-Broadway. (In addition to ignoring the financial problems every theater is going though post covid).

I am guessing that his next complaint is that they are not doing enough musicals or getting big enough stars. Since he only calls Broadway Theater as part of the mission, I think that will be the next.

After that, he will call for them to sell the Laura Pels since clearly off-Broadway is not part of their mission (as he defines it).

As if it wasn't all of you involved in that discussion that had the rest of us rolling our eyes.

Can we talk about something more deserving of the label "theatre gossip," such as theaters' tax status?

[quote]We asked you stop, politely…you’ve really worn out your welcome with your very much singular view of what a non-profit theater might do.

Not "singular," bucko. See R569.

Is that the royal "we," or do you think you represent a group with your total misunderstanding of my point? Of course, you have NO RESPONSE to my pointing out that the most recent two shows at Studio 54, PICTURES FROM HOME and THE MINUTES, were rentals to commercial productions; the last show produced by the Roundabout at the Sondheim to date was ANYTHING GOES in 2011; and if you look at the shows they've produced lately at the American Airlines, most of them have been imports from elsewhere produced "in association with" the Roundabout, such as FAT HAM and 1776. Considering that track record, I don't think it's unreasonable to question the not-for-profit status of a production company that's producing fewer and fewer shows as time goes by.

Will SLIH make it til the end of this year or fold on or about Labor Day.

[quote]I love the pretzels he is twisting himself into. Now off-Broadway does not count as a season. Everytime someone shows that he is wrong he puts another limitation. Now he has decided to exclude off-Broadway. (In addition to ignoring the financial problems every theater is going though post covid). I am guessing that his next complaint is that they are not doing enough musicals or getting big enough stars. Since he only calls Broadway Theater as part of the mission, I think that will be the next. After that, he will call for them to sell the Laura Pels since clearly off-Broadway is not part of their mission (as he defines it).

Again, please learn to read. I never meant to "exclude Off-Broadway," and I don't object to the Roundabout having not-for-profit status for the shows they produce at the Laura Pels (or at the black box theater in that complex). But, of course, the Roundabout also has not-for-profit status for ALL of their Broadway theaters, even though they are producing fewer and fewer shows in those theaters. And that's what I'm objecting to. I'm sorry if you can't understand my point even now, but hopefully it's clear enough for everyone else to get it.

Please don't respond to this post unless you are willing to address the fact that the Roundabout has been producing fewer and fewer shows in their Broadway theaters, and instead filling them with commercial rentals and imports. I would be very interested to read your justification of not-for-profit status for a theater that works that way, rather than just ignoring this fact because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Worst theatre gossip thread EVER.

[quote] Where is Amy Spanger, ,for example? She made such a splash

Bitch, please.

Kate Levering?

I’ll take your bait and address this fact: Roundabout has been producing fewer and fewer shows in their Broadway theaters, and instead filling them with commercial rentals and imports.

This fact is utterly irrelevant to Roundabout’s non profit 501c3 status.

The End—and that’s an actual fact.

Somebody upthread asked WHET Anthony Heald. He left NY in the mid-90s to live in Oregon, raise his family and appear regularly at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, And also make occasional appearances in films and TV. He's be well into 70s by now. I have no idea what he's currently doing.

r586, nobody here is questioning the legality. We're all questioning the morality.

*

We are not questioning morality. One of you is—the clueless one.

Stop. Just stop.

On the bright side, this thread is nearly full. To make the next one less torturous, might I suggest resisting the temptation to use a thread title alluding to tax status, etc.? It would only invite more bad karma.

I suggest #533: To be 501c3 or not to be, that is the question.

🤠

What’s worse than two carping old queens arguing in all caps?

[quote]What’s worse than two carping old queens arguing in all caps?

Two carping old theatre queens arguing in all caps?

New thread here. I haven’t launched one in years, so please be gentle. Or gentile.

501(c)unt

Euthanasia for this thread

Insufferable

Bajour(c)3