The Marriages of Joan Crawford.

I think she cast him off after one of her (many) career slumps was over.

From his Wikipedia page:

Despite her status as a single parent, in 1939 she [Crawford] began adoption proceedings for a baby girl, whom she named Joan Crawford, Jr. Months later Joan changed the child's name to Christina. ... During [her marriage to Phillip Terry] she adopted a second child — a boy — and named him Phillip Terry, Jr. Following her 1946 divorce from Terry, she renamed the boy Christopher Crawford.

She was a complete Narc. People were objects to be used as she needed to hide herself from her emptiness. She acquired two trophy children then changed their names when she needed it.

She married Douglas Fairbanks for status and a leg up in Hollywood as a young starlet. She realized after time she didn't need him anymore and was sick of his family's snobbery towards her

Franchot she saw as an up and comer and felt they could be a power couple. That fizzled out over time but it did her ego good to have bagged him from others

Her third was hot and passionate, helped reassure her she was still a hot woman.

Al Steele was purely for security as Joan was not good with money. In return her got Hollywood's former queen and enjoyed fucking her. If she wanted him to finance something she'd always have to perform for him first.

After that she was through with marriages

...and yet she remained close to all of them (aside from the deceased Steele) later in life.

Even taking in an ill Tone and caring for him.

Phillip Terry looks Gay

You drove Al Steele to his grave, and now you're trying to stab me in the back? Forget it. I fought worse monsters than you for years in Hollywood. I know how to win the hard way.

Why can’t you give me the COCK that I’m entitled to? Why can’t you FUCK ME like I’d be fucked by any STRANGER on the street?!

R2 = Bette Davis from the grave.

R7, that’s hilarious!

Was Gable the great love of her life or was it Steele?

Al treated Joan like a dirty slut, he'd let his Pepsi friends take turns with her!

[quote] I wonder why she got tired of him?

For reasons that are well-known to him.

Her 5th marriage was to her ego.

[quote] I wonder why she got tired of him?

Phillip could never get his Christmas Card list ready by the correct deadline...

which is by July 4th, as every decent person well knows.

[quote]Al treated Joan like a dirty slut, he'd let his Pepsi friends take turns with her!

Do you honestly believe that a bunch of tired old PepsiCo company men could deal with a woman as sexually adventurous as Joan, who came up through the Hollywood casting-courch system?

The fact that the aging Crawford’s sexual advances were summarily dismissed by John Wayne while shooting REUNION IN FRANCE is hilarious.

It all must have been pure hell for everyone on the set from there.

Obligatory...

My cunt’s a sword: it cuts both ways.

[quote] The fact that the aging Crawford’s sexual advances were summarily dismissed by John Wayne while shooting REUNION IN FRANCE is hilarious.

Umm, depending on who you believe, Joan was anywhere between 33-37 when she shot that film. Hardly "aging."

Not in Hollywood, dear.

Times are tough, r19. Still, I treat you to a lovely post, and I get smart-alek [italic]backtalk.

[quote]The fact that the aging Crawford’s sexual advances were summarily dismissed by John Wayne while shooting REUNION IN FRANCE is hilarious.

John Wayne was an asshole.

^ So was Joan Crawford 🤷‍♂️

That old turd John Wayne campaigned for his undeserved Oscar win by whining about Voight & Hoffman playing "fags" in Midnight Cowboy.

Crawford's pussy was all the better for not having this rancid bigot's smelly cock near it.

I just saw Phil Terry in a 1960 episode of "Perry Mason." He looked pretty good, despite some horrible eyeglasses.

"Was Gable the great love of her life or was it Steele?"

No, her one and only true love was herself! The men were just arm candy, publicity, or bank accounts to her.

She really was the most perfect case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder ever to have lived, she put it all right out there, most narcissists try to hide what they are but not Joanie.

I believe Barbara Stanwyck was the love of JC’s life.

Sadly, even that snatch hungry bull dyke couldn’t stand Crawford indefinitely.

Her greatest love was the bottle. But, seriously, I love Joan. And she earned the right to be a bitch.

Don't forget the elbows.

[quote]Her greatest love was the bottle.

It's tough for the truly beautiful when they age. Plus she was a complicated woman with a complicated past and two ungrateful adopted brats. Cut her some slack.

IMO, Joan was not "truly beautiful." She looked old even when she was young. Her children were just props for her image. I do think she was a narcissist. She had no business adopting one, much less four, children. (Plus the boy she returned.)

Maybe she wasn't a classic beauty, R31, certainly she wasn't from the neck down as nature meant her to be short and stocky, but she *was* one of the most photogenic people who ever lived. The film camera adored her face and was fascinated with her for decades, even when she aged and went nuts with the makeup.

That's why she had a career, a very long career, definitely not because of her acting.

I first saw Mommie Dearest when I was in my teens, before I had developed a love for classic films. During the scene where Joan and Greg Bautzer were walking along the beach, and Joan said, "I was pregnant seven times with Franchot and lost them all," I thought she said "Groucho." So I went for years thinking Joan had married and divorced Groucho Marx. Can you imagine? They would have killed each other the first month in the same house.

Groucho had a gorgeous cock. Look for the DL thread on it. Joan probably did mutter "Groucho", because she sampled the best dick in Hollywood

[R33] Of course, the reason she couldn't have children was because of all the back alley abortions she had when she was sleeping around trying to get ahead.

It's sad to me how many people think that Mommie Dearest is some kind of true life biopic.

^ more likely from when she was abused by her stepfather and others

Douglas Jr. was a cutie pie

[quote] the love of JC’s life

1) Her image

2) The bottle

3) Barbara Stanwyck

Joanie & Junior were the ultimate glam couple of the 1930s. He really was instrumental in elevating Crawford's flapper floozy image to glamorous Hollywood star.

Crawford & Fairbanks

[quote] It's sad to me how many people think that Mommie Dearest is some kind of true life biopic.

Isn't it? We all know Joan was a lunatic nympho cunt. Isn't that why we love her?

No. I learned on DL, years ago, that the Mommie Dearest that went to print was not exactly what Christina wrote. And the movie strayed even further from that. Joan was a complicated woman with demons and flaws, but she wasn't a camp cartoon character.

"she wasn't a camp cartoon character. "

Funny, it was her "camp cartoon character" that put her on the map for Gays and future generations while it literally kicked Faye Dunaway off the map 🤔

"Douglas Jr. was a cutie pie"

Oh he was, very charming with the kind of light touch that is one of the rarest and most delightful qualities an actor can have, and which was utterly different than his father's hyperactive butchness.

IMHO Cary Elwes was imitating Douglas Fairbanks Jr. all through "The Princess Bride", which brought that light touch to a new generation, but without credit.

She fucked every actor on the MGM lot except for Lassie.

Which of her husbands had the biggest, most juicy Pinga?

[quote]R43 she wasn't a camp cartoon character.

She was in Snow White.

[quote]Which of her husbands had the biggest, most juicy Pinga?

The hubby dicks were pretty similar, but Miss Barbara Stanwyck had the biggest balls!

I was molested.

[italic]It was like a burlesque show. The audience yelled and shouted, and Jerry Lewis got up on the table and whistled. But those of us in the industry just shuddered.

There’s nothing wrong with my tits, but I don’t shove them in everyone’s face!

Just looking at Phillip Terry, I'm going to assume he had the biggest cock out of Joan's 4 husbands.

Al Steele had the smallest. That's why Joan didn't mind that he was a sex addict, she could barely feel a thing!

R32- I agree, she was very photogenic. Princess Diana was not a classically beautiful women either, but damn that woman was photogenic. Joan had shapely, beautiful legs, huge expressive eyes. It was her hair style and dark lipstick, geriatric shoes that aged her, in my opinion.

JC’s neurotic need for a surgical kind of cleanliness shows just how warped her brain was.

A clean home is nice, but at a point it crosses the line and displays a deep fear of contact with the world. And its fellow inhabitants.

At best, Crawford was a sociopath.

R55- It also displays a pathological desire for control. My mother was like that, although not as severe as Joan. Forcing other people in the home to meet your obsessive standards is the ultimate form of control.

Lucille LeSueur / Billie Cassin grew up poor and was shuffled off to a boarding school to scrub floors and launder dirty linen. She was also sexually abused by her stepfather. Billie was a damaged soul who hid behind the polished Joan Crawford persona.

"Mommie Dearest" (the movie) took that Joan Crawford persona, mixed in a bit of her Queen Bee, Torch Song, and The Women characterizations, and presented a monster of a woman with no redeeming qualities.

R57- I have a lot of sympathy for Joan because of her harsh, abusive upbringing. That doesn't excuse some of her behavior, it just explains how she came to be the person she was. She was also a very generous, kind friend to many people and a very hard working actress and in my opinion a talented actress. But that hair style...

According to her twins and her friends acknowledge that while she had her quirks and difficulties she was also a very generous, caring and decent person.

Are the stories about her picking up strangers for sex later in her life true? If so , I find that to be remarkably sad.

R21, 9/10ths of DL picked up strangers for sex later in life.

R60, 9/10s of DL picked up strangers for sex later in life.

They'd just pull up her skirt and have their way with her. Treated her like a filthy whore

After Al Steele’s death, it seems Joan lost interest in casual sex. She had offers of marriage, but she declined.

R64- I don't much about her final years, but from what I have read she became almost reclusive. I could be mistaken but i read that she rarely was seen in public.

Sweetheart, 9/10 of DL don't even wait for later in life to pick up strangers to have sex with.

R65- I don't know much. ^

R66- It wasn't that she was picking up strangers but that she was putting herself in danger with men who would hurt her . Idk, that is what I read years ago. 🤷‍♀️

What do you think she was like to know as a person?

By the time she needed Al Steele's money, she no longer cared about a huge cock.

Also, by that time, she had taken so much of it over the years that she could sit on a ballistic missile and still have to fake an ouch.

R69- I think Joan was a wonderful friend if she liked you. She had many long term friendships in Hollywood who dpije very highly of her. The actress who played get daughter in Mildred Pierce adored her.

Spoke very highly of her. Played her daughter. Ugh!

R70- If she had been a man that would have been expected of her.

R60, that was Vivien Leigh suffering from manic depression.

R74 Joan was said to cruise the highways looking for men to fuck her. She'd check into motels with a man and a big bottle of vodka.

I think what stopped it, according to legend, was some man beating her up and stealing her money or jewellery and leaving her unconscious on the motel room floor.

But you are right about Vivien too.

From what I either heard or read, Joan went out to an event and saw a photo of herself with Rosalind Russell the next day. She decided that she was no longer Joan Crawford and never went out in public again.

R75, Joan said it was an adventure, and she met many interesting people. She wanted to make a movie of it. Yet, after being robbed and beaten, she was terrified to drive alone, at night.

R76 that must be this picture

R78 Joan has twice the eyebrows, twice the eyes, and twice the lips as Russell.

[quote] Phillip Terry looks Gay

Only Billy Haines and her hairdresser knew for sure.

"...damn that woman was photogenic. Joan had shapely, beautiful legs, huge expressive eyes. It was her hair style and dark lipstick, geriatric shoes that aged her, in my opinion."

I disagree, I say it was... AGING that aged her! By the time she was wearing the Kabuki makeup of the "Torch Song" era, she was over fifty (hard to say how far over since her real date of birth is unknown), and she was still photogenic. I think the huge eyebrows and red lips had a practical use, when her makeup was that severe the cinematographer could throw enough light onto her face to make the sags and wrinkles less visible, the contrast between the dark mouth and eyes and the pale skin worked in her favor.

That said, I'm not going to try to excuse her 1950s hairstyles! The nicest thing anyone can say about her short fifties hairdos is... Mamie Eisenhower's looked worse.

This is the first time I've heard reports of Joan picking up strangers, and I don't believe it. Why would she fuck some loser who could do nothing for her career and hardly anything for her ego, I ask?

Yes, I know she fucked everyone who was anyone in Hollywood, but I'd bet she was more Ambitiosexual than actually cock-hungry. I actually doubt she was all that keen on dick for its own sake, like I said above her one true love was her narcissistic self! Of course she used sex because it could get her almost everything she wanted, but her narcissistic ego was running the whole show and I doubt it let the hormones have much of a say.

Bruce Vilanch told a raunchy story on Gilbert Gottfried’s podcast about Joan’s later Hollywood years.

The studio would send young actors to escort her to events, and it was understood that the stud was to fuck her after the event. Once, while drunk, she pissed over her own banister onto a young David Niven. She thought it was hilarious.

[quote]r82 This is the first time I've heard reports of Joan picking up strangers, and I don't believe it. Why would she fuck some loser who could do nothing for her career and hardly anything for her ego, I ask?

The stories about her picking up strange men as she drove up and down the coast are mentioned in the Bob Thomas biography about her. She quit the dalliances after waking up in a motel with a blackened eye and emptied purse.

This was around the time Marlon Brando turned down a script Crawford sent him, with the explanation that he “wasn’t looking to do any mother/son stories at this time.”

I would guess she was trying to boost her sense of desirability.

R81- I always wonder how differently Joan, Bette, and the others would have aged if they hadn't smoked like chimneys, tanned without sunscreen, ect. But I am very glad they did not have the plastic surgery options that are available today. Can you imagine how far Miss Joan would have taken it?

Joan wanted Brando for Sudden Fear.

Girl, the stories about Joan picking up strange men freak me out, however, they don't surprise me at all. I can see it perfectly. And I agree with R82 - I don't think she was too keen on dick for its own sake at all; this was something else. As always, she was trying fill that void inside of her. Feeding the black hole.

R87- Aging is especially brutal for a narcissist, I suppose being an actress whose career depends on looks would be even more brutal. She just wanted to feel like she was still attractive to men, I would imagine.

I agree, R88. And I suppose she didn't do it with women in the same way only for two reasons: that's not how it works with most women who like other women (you can't just pick them up), and she couldn't / wouldn't (EVER!) risk it getting out that she liked pussy. Otherwise, I think she would have tried to pick up vajayjay as well, for an ego stroke, and perhaps for intimacy, too - who knows.

Possibly, R89. She clearly liked women and/or enjoyed sex with them but you may be right - she may have limited passes at women to the women she knew wouldn't rat her out. A stranger could easily call the cops, or the newspapers.

Wasn't she bi? Who were her female lovers?

R91- The only person/rumor that i am aware of is Barbara Stanwyck.

R91 she allegedly bedded Marilyn Monroe, from what I’ve heard, but I don’t believe it. Joan loved men way too much.

Christina implied several female lovers in her book and so did a few other writers.

I don't think Joan was a lesbian by any stretch, but when she was depressed/sad/lonely/needed an ego boost, a pair of arms or lips of any sort would do.

PS I think the making passes at women phase came later on, in her fading years.

Oh yeah, I forgot she supposedly fucked Marilyn Monroe. Isn't there a tape of Marilyn talking about it to her shrink about it. Apparently she didn't like it but Joan wanted to continue the affair.

And didn't her daughter wrote about her having sex with the nanny?

Exactly, R90.

Barbara Stanwyck and others, including a one-time thing with Marilyn Monroe, according to Christina Crawford, who also said that Joan used to bring many, many women home as well as men. In 2013, Joy Behar asked Christina on air if she thought Joan was gay, and CC said she thought Joan was bi.

Here, starting at 8:06 ("In those days, people didn't come out of the closet; everybody knew it"):

R94, everything points to the theory that Joan would have dated and even had female life partners had she felt it wouldn't hurt her career. One of her assistants who worked for her toward the end of her life said she told her something to the effect of "Oh, so-and-so, you're so lucky you're not famous, because that means you can go out with whoever you want. I can't"; and then there's the picture of Barbara Stanwyck she kept on her desk until the end of her life.

By the way, R90 is right again - when Christina says she used to bring many women home, she meant women co-workers. If you think about it, it makes sense, as they would have had as much to lose as Joan if shit ever came out, so I guess she felt safer doing it with them. It's a sad thing, too, because it means that once work dried up and she moved to New York (Al Steele era), she was probably never with women again. It looks to me as though that was a great loss for her, because apparently that's where she got real intimacy and love - with women. Men were, to her, a means to an end in a very practical manner. Women, not so much, besides fulfilling her need for love and intimacy and to feed her ego as well, I'm sure, but the thing is: do you really think Joan, calculating as she was, would have EVER risked being with women (even co-workers) if she didn't feel an undeniable need to? In my opinion, she wouldn't. There are endless stories of her falling in love (ACTUALLY falling in love) with female co-stars who wouldn't give her the time of day (which hurt her terribly), so, yeah.

[quote]She was a complete Narc.

R2, that word doesn't mean what you think it does. A "narc" is a snitch or a tattletale, and comes from "narcotics officer," to describe an undercover cop infiltrating a drug ring.

Joan Crawford was many things but I don't think "a narc" was one of them.

R98 "because apparently that's where she got real intimacy and love - with women. Men were, to her, a means to an end in a very practical manner. Women, not so much"

You don't know what the word apparently means. And again you are making shit up in your head and presenting them as some sort of facts.

I agree, R98. And so did many writers and biographers.

r99 I'm assuming they meant NARCISSIST.

R99 I can imagine Joanie undercover infiltrating a drugs ring and slapping the hell out of them!

"Hand me those drugs before I kill you!"

"[R91] she allegedly bedded Marilyn Monroe, from what I’ve heard, but I don’t believe it."

I don't believe it either. I mean, either of them would have done it if they thought it would help their careers or ego, but I don't see what fucking Marilyn would have done for Crawford's career or ego back in the early fifties.

R105- I thought Joan was extremely jealous of MM? She supposedly made some very cruel comments about Marilyn " Always having her tits hanging out" or something like that. It was said to have really hurt MM feelings when she was told what Joan says about her.

Said, not says. 🙄

R34, are you thinking of Harpo?

Here it is:

[quote] Monroe described the encounter herself in conversations taped by her psychiatrist DOCTOR RALPH GREENSON, recordings which were obtained by the Los Angeles Times newspaper from former prosecutor JOHN MINER, who helped investigate her death.

[quote] Monroe said, "We went to Joan's bedroom... Crawford had a gigantic orgasm and shrieked like a maniac.

[quote] "Next time I saw Crawford she wanted another round. I told her straight I didn't much enjoy doing it with a woman."

It was after that that Joan started badmouthing Marilyn, for reasons well known to her.

And:

[quote] In a 2003 Monroe bio by Matthew Smith, who had access to transcripts of tapes Monroe made for her psychiatrist, Marilyn says:

[quote] [italic]Oh yes, Crawford. We went to her house from a cocktail party, feeling no pain. [bold]We went to the bedroom and went down on each other[/bold]. Crawford had a gigantic orgasm and shrieked like a maniac. Next time I saw her she wanted another round. I told her straight out I didn't enjoy it much, doing it with a woman. After I turned her down she became spiteful.[/italic]

Now, something Anita Page said when she gave an interview in 2000 to Austin Mutti-Mewes. He wrote:

[quote] [italic]Page had other problems with her studio bosses. Her rivalry with the sexually voracious Joan Crawford caused increasing tension at MGM. [bold]"I ended up loathing Joan,"[/bold] says Page. [bold]"For one thing she tried to hit on me several times. Let me tell you, when my mother saw the sex aids in various shapes and colours that Joan kept in her medicine cabinet, she refused my ever seeing Joan again - apart from on a film set."[/bold][/italic]

Anita Page's mother was a nosy bitch. This was circa 1928.

More from Anita Page:

[quote] Around the time of the shooting of Our Dancing Daughters, rumours began to surface, in spite of (or perhaps because of) her highly publicized relationship with pretty-boy Fairbanks. Part of it was due to her intense desire to become friends with costar Anita Page, which some thought indicated that she had a crush on Page.

[quote] For her part, Page told writer William Mann that "It may have been true in the beginning, that she wanted to know me for that reason." [bold]Her [Joan Crawford's] friend and confidant Jerry Asher was certain that Joan had lusted for Page, revealing that she had more than once admitted as much.[/bold]

Also circa 1928.

Joan was very "handsy" with Anita Page.

Joanie loves Anita.

Cecil Beaton had this to say about Joan's frequent crushes on women:

[quote] In an article on file at the Lincoln Center, he writes of Joan:

[quote] [bold]At one time she was insatiably interested in Miss Dietrich[/bold]; then the Fairbanks Jr. house was littered with Marlene's photographs and gramophone records. [bold]Then she moved on to Lilyan Tashman, followed by the chief of her idols--Greta Garbo.[/bold]

Source on the link below.

I'm pretty sure Joanie and Marlene bumped boxes.

Great gossip, thank you! 😘 Joan, we never knew you!

Well, she never sucked *my* dick!

Mine either!

Did Douglas Jr. know? He had to.

You're very welcome, R117.

R120, yes, he knew. And Joan knew about his fucking other men. You can find that tea on Darwin Porter's book "Humphrey Bogart: The Making of a Legend" (2005).

I don't have access to it right now, but when I do, I'll try to find the excerpt.

Darwin Porter... BWAHAHAH! He writes fiction.

The hell was Anita Page's mother doing nosing around in Our Joan's medicine cabinet?!

Phillip Terry is in one of my favorite cheapie Universal International horror movies "The Leech Woman", also starring the pretty marvelous Colleen Gray in the title role!

Here you go, R122, [bold]NOT[/bold] from Darwin Porter:

[quote] [Howard] Hughes married Ella Rice (her family endowed the Christian college, Rice University) with [Dudley] Sharp as his best man. [bold]He also had a brief affair with Douglas Fairbanks, Jr.[/bold], who went on to marry Joan Crawford. After their divorce, Crawford turned down Hughes’ request for a date.

R123, they were both newcomers to Hollywood and were making their first films as leading women (transitioning from mere extra work). Page's mother was a stage mom and followed Anita everywhere (and later served as her assistant). The young women visited each other in their small first houses (rented), Anita with her stage mom in tow. I guess bitch went to the bathroom to take a piss and opened Joan's medicine cabinet.

An invitation: for those interested in the Crawford-Stanwyck snatch-eating consortium, come join us at the Barbara Stanwyck thread (link on post below), where the gossip is hot and some folks are madder than wet hens...

Stany resides here:

BECAUSE IM NOT ONE OF YOUR FANS

105 Maybe she was just, you know, into her? Not everyone fucks to help their careers or boost their egos.

Lipstick lesbian, you went from "yeah Joan had affairs with women as well. She was bi." to "She was a closeted lesbian. Men were, to her, a means to an end in a very practical manner"

R129 R105

Girl? R130 No. I think she genuinely liked sex with men. At the same time, she had a lot of transactional sex with them - that is undeniable. Men were the people in charge (studio heads, directors, producers), and we all know she had sex with these types to advance her career. With women, on the other hand, there often seemed to be a highly emotional component that is not quite there when you read about Joan's dalliances with men. You hear a lot about her infatuation with women, falling in love with them, besides lusting after them. But I don't recall reading that Joan fell hard in love with [XYZ] man. Do you?

That's all I mean. One can simultaneously be bisexual and homoaffective (I'm not saying that was the case here - we don't know), as in: enjoying sex with both genders, but having a tendency to fall in love with one rather than the other. E.g. I have an acquaintance, a woman, who likes sex with both genders, but only falls in love with men. She is still bisexual.

R132 But how could you know what she felt for her husbands and male partners? And how could you know what she felt for her female lovers?

Zoran at R133, you lack nuance. Dobar dan, by the way. Kako si? Closer and closer to getting red-tagged? The clock is ticking.

Još jedan korak...

Joan grew up the hard way, then got to Hollywood and had to go back to using some old coping skills to get ahead. My guess is, sex with both men and women was transactional and a means to an end for her in many cases, but when it was on her terms she enjoyed it. I

If Joanie had one last great hit in the 50s she might have felt better and now I've typed that I know how stupid I am. She would not have felt validated even if she'd had 10 more hits

If she would have lived, I'm sure one of the old nighttime soaps would have brought her on for a guest shot. She could have played Dex Dexter's mother on Dynasty or something.

I'm just fascinated by the image of sex aids in bright colors in Joan's 1928 medicine cabinet. Where do you suppose she obtained them without the advent of Amazon?

R134 Are you touched in the head? Great way of avoiding the answers. Which you obviously don't know

R137, Joan would’ve been perfect as Alexis’s mother, in “Dynasty.” She would’ve been so strong and commanding that Alexis would’ve feared her. She would known all the skeletons and played her like a violin.

R128 I was wondering that too! I’m assuming by sex aids they mean a selection of dildos. When did dildos become a thing?

Dildos have been around since forever. There were ancient Greek dildos. Sea captains used to leave their wives with whalebone dildos carved in the shape of their own penis while they were away at sea. I'm sure Joan would have known exactly how to evade the Comstock laws and obtain the most colorful and diversely contoured dildos the jazz age had available.

Certainly they all matched the bathroom decor and were arranged by color.

Everyone said Crawford’s dildos were so clean you could eat off them.

I don’t believe that Doug Jr. hooked up with Howard Hughes…he supposedly rejected Noel Coward’s sexual overtures, somewhat emphatically IIRC. Coward’s song MAD ABOUT THE BOY allegedly was about him.

The original book FEUD (1989) mentions that Howard Hughes was bisexual, tho it doesn’t go into detail.

Here's something I also dropped at the Barbara Stanwyck thread - from "Joan Crawford: The Essential Biography", by Lawrence Quirk and William Schoell, who state that Helen Ferguson said the following:

[quote] “There’s no doubt in my mind that Joan and Barbara were intimate on more than one occassion.”

[quote] Joan's bisexuality was also confirmed by Adela Rogers St. Johns, Ruth Waterbury, Hedda Hopper, and others.

And from elsewhere:

[quote] Joan and Barbara had adjoining properties in Brentwood. When Barbara's husband, Frank Fay, would get drunk & abusive toward her, Barbara would run to Joan's house, where Joan would console her.

"Come live with me, and be my love, if only for a day"...

Stany and Crawford.

****

****

"Where do you suppose she obtained them [sex toys] without the advent of Amazon?"

Mail-order "personal massagers" have been around for a very long time!

And BTW, this popped up while I was looking for old "personal massager" ads...

That Vibra-Finger was for gum massage R150. Gum. Massage. It's well known how much Miss Crawford cared about good oral hygiene.

But where did one find BRIGHTLY COLORED dildos in the olde days? What were they made of before the invention of plastic?

Oh, I guess rubber....

Bakelite, R153—highly sought-after nowadays at flea markets and estate sales everywhere!

I googled "Bakelite dildo" and actually found this. First result in Images.

Did Fiestaware include multi-colored dildos in their original collections?

Barbara Stanwyck visits Joan on the set of The Gorgeous Hussy (1936).

At that time, Joan was (also) fucking Franchot Tone, and it is said they were screwing with abandon between takes.

A complete version of the photo at R157.

And a complete version of the photo at R126.

Which of her husbands were bisexual?

All of the actor ones. Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. apparently preferred dick to pussy. Franchot Tone supposedly had a sexual relationship with his roomate Ross Alexander. Phillip Terry reportedly had an affair with Robert Taylor.

I don't know about Al Steele.

^roommate*. Apologies

Nobody cares about Al Steele. Then or now.

Al always called R164, 'Pally' and he has never gotten over it...

Why is the year of her birth unknown? But the day and the month aren't.

Because she had no birth certificate that anyone could locate, R166. It appears she took advantage of it to add a few years to / shave a few years off her real age, when convenient.

There's a census record from San Antonio, Texas, that shows a 'Lucial' (misspelled) in the Cassin (wrongly spelled 'Casson') house aged '5' on April 20th, 1910, which would make her birth year 1905, but that's not a trustworthy source, since a lot of the information in it is messed up.

There's a fuckton of people who think she was actually born in 1906, as there are many newspaper clippings that cite her birth date as being March 23rd, 1906. That's also the date she gave when registering at Stephens College (Columbia, Missouri), which she attended for a semester in 1922-1923.

MGM documents, as well as her tombstone, say she was born in 1908.

Girl! I should have signed:

(test number 1)

^Oh, good. No test number 2 needed.

R166 she had the record removed by authority of the Governor

R170 may be on to something.

From Christina Crawford's "Mommie Dearest":

[quote] Publicly her birth date was reported as March 23, 1908, but Grandmother told me that she was actually born in 1904.

Toddler Joan.

Complete picture of toddler Joan.

Teenaged Joan with her mother and brother. She never got along with either of them.

A pic of Joan and her mother from the late 20s. They had the same eyes.

Franchot Tone, Joan Crawford, Barbara Stanwyck (with her hand on her girlfriend's arm) and Robert Taylor, gayer than Christmas (he was in a lavender marriage with Stanwyck):

Franchot Tone escorts Barbara Stanwyck and Joan.

1938.

r176 if I didn't know who any of those people were I would just assume it was a gay couple and a lesbian couple.

Yes, and yes, R178.

Stanwyck and Crawford, looking like power lesbians.

Franchot in the middle.

Looking at these photos, Crawford only ever seems genuinely happy and at ease around Stanwyck.

R182, yes.

Franchot doesn't look that hotz was he more attractive on screen?

R184 No, not really. I don't understand why Franchot was ever a thing, much like I don't understand the appeal of ferret-faced Ryan Gosling.

R178 speaks truth! (Though Lipstick Lez is stacking the deck a little with the gayest picture of Robert Taylor EVER!)

One does not need to even attempt to "stack the deck".

Ryan Gosling is boyishly cute, nice body, friendly, relaxed charm and he's talented. Guy next door vibe

Robert Taylor, giving Liberace.

Taylor and Stanwyck. Look at them gals.

About to puke, both of them.

Franchot came from money. And he was a charmer. Even hard-hearted Bette Davis had a mad crush on him.

For you, OP:

[quote] When [Robert Taylor] became very close friends with MGM carpenter Ralph Couser, Stanwyck was convinced the two men were having an affair. When Couser telephoned Taylor home, Stanwyck would say: ”Oh, Bob, your wife is on the phone.” Taylor became convinced he was gay and began therapy.

[quote] [bold]Taylor was supposedly having an affair with Phillip Terry, Joan Crawford‘s third husband, while they were both still married.[/bold] He and Stanwyck divorced in 1951.

Come through!

R191 he still was no looker

Tone was very cultured and intelligent, possessed a smooth baritone, and was apparently quite suave with the ladies. His looks were fine, but not the main attraction.

^It is said Joan married him in pursuit of this exact thing: culture and 'sophistication', hoping she would learn from him, and become more like someone who would have hailed from circumstances similar to his (from birth, that is).

One more step in her infinite quest to try and improve herself, her knowledge, her image, etc.

While I agree that Franchot's charms might be elusive in these still photos, he was sexy in a very adrogynous sort of way when young. Check him out in Mutiny on the County as the most popular cabin boy on the ship. At MGM he continued that boyish cultured anti-Gable type originated by Billy Haines and Bob Montgomery that was originated in silent films by Wallace Reid.

Bob Taylor was originally offered up as the same type in the 1930s but by the early 40s his looks had hardened through drinking and smoking and god knows what else and he was no longer that pretty boy type.

Robert Taylor's real name was Spangler Arlington Brugh; you can't get much gayer than that.

Robert Taylor (he was in a lavender marriage with Stanwyck)

Writing it or saying it, doesn't make it true

Barbara looking butch AF.

Honestly, all these pictures of Joan and Barbara together have changed my opinion about Joanie. It's the first time I've ever seen photos of her looking more interested in another human being, than in the camera taking the picture.

This is how she usually looked when she was with someone.

FUCK YOU, FOOL R198. Get the FUCK out of our gay message board, you insulting, subhuman piece of shit.

NO ONE wants you here. Get out of that fucking basement and go socialize with your people in Croatia, you friendless, miserable, ridiculous, small-penised motherfucker. Not even your mama wanted you - you're a botched abortion, and a freak of nature. FUCK YOU, FUCK YOUR HOMOPHOBIA, FUCK YOUR RETROGRADE HELLHOLE OF A COUNTRY, and FUCK YOUR SLAVIC NONSENSE. Do you know what that word means? YOU ARE A [bold]SLAVE[/bold]. To your neighbors, your paramilitary militias, your corrupt government, THE TURKS, and RUSSIA.

GET THE FUCK OUT NOW, AND NEVER COME BACK. This is OUR space, not yours, you [bold]STRAIGHT SCOURGE[/bold].

Reality didn't exist.

R201 You're a dude

I don't care what you say or think about me, motherfucker R203. I just care that you get out of our GAY space immediately, and never come back. You're in every thread saying that gay people are actually bisexual, bisexual people are actually straight etc.; implying that we're "fools" for gossiping about about OUR people in OUR gossip forum, and so on and so forth. What gives? What are you doing here? We've already established that you are straight. All you do is mock gay men and women, and persecute women posters. You're in violation of the purpose of this board. You are not welcome here.

Fuck the hell off. Have some self-awareness. We don't want you here, now or ever.

R204 You are making shit up. Again.

MURIEL! PLEASE, HELP US!

ALL GAY POSTERS, PLEASE, FF THIS SCOURGE!

MARY!!!!!!!

R207, check out this guy's post history and you'll see.

R200, there's someone else that made Joan pay attention and look away from the camera. Her niece Joan Crawford LeSueur, Hal LeSueur's daughter.

Here they are on the set of "I Live My Life", 1935.

****

Joan and Joanie.

1938.

On the set of "The Gorgeous Hussy", 1936.

On the set of "The Bride Wore Red", 1937

Finally, one more from 1937.

I guess the niece opened Joanie’s eyes to the publicity that could be milked from trotting out a cute blonde kid.

And so, Christina was purchased…

[quote]And so, Christina was purchased…

Probably got her on layaway.

Franchot Tone was a talented actor who was part of the Group Theater with Stella Adler, Lee Strasberg, Sandy Meisner, John Garfield, Frances Farmer, etc. But he left the Group to go to Hollywood, and for the most part, he was the George Brent of MGM, forever playing second banana to the superstar leading lady. In many others, he lost the lady to more he-man stars like Clark Gable, Robert Montgomery, and Robert Taylor. I don't think he was ever really satisfied with his movie career, so he headed back to Broadway when his MGM contract expired in 1939. He would sign short term contracts here and there with various studios, but I don't think any of them are really that memorable.

She never sucked my dick……although in her defense, my dick had a very busy social calendar.