“Rock Hudson: All That Heaven Allowed” documentary premieres on MAX 6/28/2023

He never thanked me for my gift.

YAWN

The biography was excellent, hopefully the documentary is too.

Rock Hudson has not "faded away".

He was so beautiful and he had great comic timing.

Yes, he has, r4. So have all those old stars for the most part. He was handsome, but he was never a great actor. If there's a gay actor from those days who still matters, it's Cary Grant.

Director Kijak sounds very self-congratulatory...

Agree that he has faded a little bit, unlike Cary Grant he has no classic masterpiece playing around today (Grant has several). Giant is a mess, the Douglas Sirk movies are now mostly cult . And, handsome as he was, his acting was never extraordinary.

Here's one of my favorite Rock Hudson movies/performances, "All That Heaven Allows." Very forward-thinking for its time and Rock has a natural warmth that later clones such as John Gavin never demonstrated. This movie was a hit in its day, generated a Todd Haynes "tribute" and gave this doc it's title. My take here...

Gorgeous man

Thanks, OP. I’ll check it out.

Rock’s homosexuality was known by many long before his AIDS diagnosis, despite the impression that many were “shocked” to learn he was gay when his illness was made public.

At the 1968 premiere of “Ice Station Zebra”, he was taunted with homosexual slurs as he walked the red carpet and never attended another premiere.

Also in the 1960s, Rock was hosting a party aboard a yacht off the California coast and when a group of drunken college kids on the beach realized he was aboard, they began yelling homosexual slurs at the yacht that were heard by all.

Both of the above incidents are from the “All That Heaven Allows” biography.

R9, great review.

I always watch this movie when it's on TCM. However, while I can certainly see what Carrie sees in Ron, it's always a mystery to me what he sees in her. Thoughts?

Thank you, R9! Despite Wyman's Mamie Eisenhower hairdo, Jane and Rock had a nice rapport, and became friends in real life. I like the fact that their characters get a happy ending, uncommon for controversial characters back in the day!

Thx op. I’ll add it to my watch list. I liked him with Susan St James in McMillan & Wife

The only thing I ever believed him in were those comedies where he plays a sly, saturnine bachelor playing hard-to-get with a woman.

I can watch a a Rock Hudson film . His humor. beauty and dulcet tones lull me into a fantasy. Cary Grant is a grating wooden Indian. Cartoonish like his dyke pal Kate.

The Good Ole Days

R12- yes Rock's nature was known in the industry. When he visited my city on a press tour the word was he holed up in his hotel room with gentleman callers for a week.

Will there be famous talking heads in this doc? Who are the stars who are left who'd have incisive things to say about Rock?

He never slept with me.

We had a.... tryst.

Well more like he was drunk, passed out so I sodomized him with my Hoover Model 28 vacuum hose but you know how that goes...

R20, Lee Majors, Earl Holliman, Angie Dickinson, Susan St. James, John Schuck, Julie Andrews, Linda Evans, Jack Scalia and Paula Prentiss would be some.

He’s from the area I grew up in, which surprised me. He went to a rival school - New Trier. So did DL fave Ann-Margret, years later. As did Charlton Heston (who would have overlapped two years with Rock….hmmmm), Liz Phair,, and many, many others.

“Rock Hudson, who was stifled by the Hollywood closet.”

He used the closet very effectively, compared to anyone else in pictures at that time. A never ending parade of hit men and Ucla boys heading up into the hills for a ‘pool party.’

R25 Amateur!

[quote]I can watch a a Rock Hudson film . His humor. beauty and dulcet tones lull me into a fantasy. Cary Grant is a grating wooden Indian. Cartoonish like his dyke pal Kate.

Incidentally, I watched my first Cary Grant movie this past Christmas It was THE BISHOP'S WIFE.

I had seen the Penny Marshall remake, THE PREACHER'S WIFE, with Whitney Houston and Denzel Washington. Then the original showed up on my YouTube suggestions.

Anyway, handsome man but very irritating voice and manner of speaking. I couldn't finish the movie.

There are many sides to me. They all deserve the best. MAX.

I remember years ago, Stuttering John from The Howard Stern Show interviewed Rock’s lover Marc Christian at a public event.

He asked, “Is it true that Rock Hudson was hung like a pin?”

Christian replied with a smirk, “A rolling pin, yes”.

Thanks, Rick.

BTW I enjoyed reading your other reviews too.

R4 he has. The average person under a certain age wouldn’t know who you’re speaking of. They would know who Marilyn Monroe is though. They would know who James Dean is though (to a lesser degree). That is the Directors point. Marilyn and Dean are two stars whose celebrity and likeness never go away, while Hudson has faded into obscurity for the most part. There are other stars like them, like Elvis, who will also never go away. Generation after generation learn of him. He doesn’t go away. Hudson has.

“Hollywood” introduced him to people who watched it and didn’t know who he was already but it was an imaginary version of him and played by someone who looked nothing like him and didn’t even have any of his mannerisms or sound like him. It was an imaginary version.

He used to go to Louisville and play with the UK football boys.....in the early 1960's.

UK is in Lexington, not Louisville.

His closet door was made of glass and yes, many knew he was gay and yes, it cost him a bigger career and legacy. People rewrite history too much. He was someone who was constantly having slurs hurled at him and at some point in the 60s was relegated to B movies and television. Back then if a movie actor ended up on television that meant your career was pretty much over.

R34, “McMillan & Wife”, Rock’s first television venture, premiered in September of 1971.

By then, the negative stigma that television once held was no longer valid.

R35 what???( lmao that’s very false.

R35 please stop speaking about things you don’t know about.

Into the early 00s it was rare a tv star had much film success. That’s why it was a big deal when actors like George Clooney transitioned from tv to movie star.

James Garner, Clint Eastwood, Dick Van Dyke, Sally Field, John Travolta, Chevy Chase, John Belushi, Jim Carrey and Eddie Murphy, as well as George Clooney, would beg to differ.

R21 Speak for yourself bitch!

Is that Lee Majors' old nose along with his bottom, r39?

R36, In the early 1970s, a number of movie stars experimented with their own television series.

Shirley MacLaine, Roger Moore, Tony Curtis, Rock Hudson, Peter Falk, Lana Turner, Jimmy Stewart, Henry Fonda, etc.

R38, Steve McQueen, as well.

R38, Robin Williams

R36, Now, don’t you feel foolish?

R24, ETHS alum? :)

Film stars were doing tv from the early 50s. The “look down at the tv crowd” is largely a myth…too many exceptions that disprove the rule. So to speak.

R37 you flipped his post around: he was talking about movie stars transitioning to TV, not the other way around.

R46 false. Again. Early TV was being tested. That is different. By the 70s it was different.

I heard rumors that he was gay when I was a kid living in South America in the early 60's, that's how far back and wide they went. My favorite Rock movies are not the dramas but the comedies he made with Dodo and others. I could watch Pillow Talk on a loop.

For R48

Reading is fundamental —you could look it up yourself.

Here’s the trailer . . .

R50 TV stars didn’t transition to Film stars most times.

I enjoy watching reruns of McMillan & Wife with Susan Saint James and Nancy Walker as the housekeeper.

Lmao everyone around at the time knew a movie star went to tv at the end of their film career or when it was failing. Doris Day didn’t do tv in her peak.

R54 point made. Move on tampon.

Loretta Young, Barbara Stanwyck, Jane Wyman, June Allyson, Robert Montgomery, Dick Powell, Shirley Temple, etc. all hosted and starred in their own television series in the 1950s.

Looking forward to watching this.

“Lmao” is so juvenile, but the trailer looks great.

Bette Davis did a lot of TV work starting around the mid-50s. She did Perry Mason, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, Wagon Train, etc.

Again, THAT WAS THE EARLY STAGES OF TV. WE SAID THIS ALREADY

Are we not talking about television? Yes, we are. AND THAT IS THE TOPIC WITHIN THIS DISCUSSION. stop yelling at everyone.

It’s no secret that Rock was not pleased with “McMillan & Wife” and his displeasure increased each time NBC renewed it.

Battle of the DL ancients

I grew up in the '80s and '90s and even then television was looked down upon by most film actors.

Many aspiring movie stars saw TV as a stepping stone. Some had success transitioning like George Clooney (ER) and Meg Ryan (AS THE WORLD TURNS). Others did not like Shelly Long (CHEERS) and David Caruso (NYPD BLUE). The latter two were even mocked for leaving their respective hit series and failing as a film star.

Helen Hunt was a unique case in which she was simultaneously an Emmy-winning TV star (MAD ABOUT YOU) and an Oscar-winning movie star (TWISTER, AS GOOD AS IT GETS) in the late '90s.

I’m watching a movie called The Constant Nympho

My late mother was his closest friend and named me after the unforgettable character Rock played in his biggest hit of all time, "Send Me No Flowers"!

Even my bubbe knew Rock was a fegeleh.

RIP to him. I have always loved the soap opera saga that is Giant and loved him in Pillow Talk. Other than that I was never a big fan but appreciated him.

R64 yea, television was a stepping stone but many would never do tv. It was a big deal that Meryl did Big Little Lies and many critics used her as the perfect example for how far tv has come, it’s even attracting the biggest stars now. Years ago that wasn’t the case outside of a guest spot here and there.

The 90s Godzilla movie was mocked for having so many tv stars at the time in it. And it failed big time.

R25, "hit men"?

Will his "friend" Lee Majors be one of the talking heads?

There probably won’t be many talking heads because most people who worked with him or knew him are mostly dead.

R64. I’m going to be kind here, but know that you are totally clueless. Where are you from, Mars?

Meryl Streep was starring in TV miniseries in 19fucking78!

Mini Series is not a regular series. JESUS CHRIST

R71 is too lame to read in context and skip through an obvious typo.

R74 was for R69

R75. What pray tell was Big Little Lies? What did that show have in common with Holocaust? Let me rack my brain..oh yes: they were both tv miniseries.

I'm sorry he's dead but perhaps it was for the best. Goodness I'm so glad their are no more homosexual leading men in Hollywood.

It's only in recent years that we're seeing some A list movie stars in TV mini-series.

The movie stars that did TV series in the 1950s were indeed huge in the 1930s and 40s but were not being offered lead roles in films in the 50s. And that includes Barbara Stanwyck, Loretta Young, Robert Montgomery, Dick Powell, Shirley Temple and all the others.

The same could be said about the film stars that did series in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s (even Streep isn't often being offered great leading roles in films).

It all finally changed a few years ago with the new high quality of streaming mini-series and the lack of decent material in mainstream movies.

I tried to save Rock by sucking the fag out of him.

It didn’t just change a few years ago. Oh, to be young and uninformed again. Just stop with these silly overbroad generalizations. You’re entitled to your own opinions, of course, but you’re not entitled to your own facts.

It's sad that guys had to hide their gayness back then.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to make love to my beautiful girlfriend

R81 only your own facts aren’t the facts.

What fact do you dispute?

That Meryl Streep did not appear on tv in 1978? Yes or no That famous actors did not appear regularly on tv starting in the 1950s? Yes or no.

The facts of the matter are right there, staring at you.

R84 you’re one of the stupidest motherfuckers ever.

When Meryl Streep appeared on TV in 1978 in Holocaust she was not yet a major film star. Her only film credit pre-Holocaust per IMDb was Julia in which she played a minor role.

The "famous actors" who appeared on TV in the 1950s were no longer being offered lead film roles.

R86 thank you. I can’t even be bothered with that idiot.

R79, major movie stars appeared in TV miniseries and TV films since the 1970s. They even appeared as a guest star in a TV show.

1. Julia Roberts appeared in “Law and Order.”

2. Jane Fonda, TV movie - “The Doll Maker”.

3. Faye Dunaway in “The Disappearance of Aimee” and “Evita Peron”. (TV films.)

4. Meryl Streep in “First Do No Harm”. (TV film.)

Your sock puppets are showing.

Don’t bother R88. The loons have redefined to redefine film actors to mean only the ones they’ve decided fit their opinion. The rest are not famous, not worthy or old…they’ll come back at you with their new definition in each successive post. They’ve killed a good thread.

Julia Roberts only did that Law & Order as a stunt because she was fucking Benjamin Bratt.

R88 we fucking said they would sometimes do special guest appearances upthread. Again. You’re fucking STUPID. Just STFU

Seriously the stupidest motherfucker

My sister and I were young kids who barely knew what homosexuality was when Rock starred in "MacMillan and Wife".

But we'd heard and absorbed the rumors, and used to refer to the show as "Wife and Wife" (which we thought was HILARIOUS!)

This at least looks better than the Little Richard doc, which I just saw.

It was so obnoxious, full of "Queer Studies" academic talking heads blathering on about "queerness" in general, and Richard's "queerness" in particular.

The word "queer" was used dozens of times in the film, as opposed to "gay", which was only used once or twice. So fucking insulting to his memory to describe him using what was, in his day, a vicious slur.

As noted the loons call each other to reinforce their wobbly argument: this one was only a guest star, that one wasn’t yet famous, that wasn’t a series but a miniseries…. Too funny, too depressing they are.

r95, he himself didn't identify as gay, so....whatever. Gay is used as a slur today ("That's so gay") so, using your logic, it's insulting to call anyone gay.

R94 and where did you hear the rumors? On the imaginary internet?

R96 - just look at Rock’s IMDB page - by the time he stated doing TV in 71 his film work was drying up - and though he did do a few films after 71 the bulk of his credits are in TV That was a natural career trajectory for many in Hollywood during the last half of the 20th century both in front of and behind the camera. Few actors maintain careers as leads in films for more than a decade, and by the late 60s / early 70s TV had solidly replaced B Pictures as the place where actors on both sides of the career slope found most of their work.

The rumors of Rock’s gayness were all over in the 70s - I was in grade school and all the kids repeated the rumor that he had “married” Jim Neighbors.

“he had “married” Jim Neighbors.“

Oh, my fucking dear!

That was the rumor jackass R100

R101 must be new here.

He had a great Adams apple but he couldn't live forever.

It's a wonderful day in the DL Nabor-hood! BTW, TCM will be airing one of Rock's big hits, "Written on the Wind" tonight (6/9) at 8 pm/ET. Will be part of TCM's look at "camp." Hopefully, shrieking TCM fave Mario Cantone won't be co-hosting with lump Ben Mank. My look at the great fun that is "Written on the Wind" here...

R104, After the screening at the premiere, Bogart turned to Bacall and said “I wouldn’t make many more like that one, Betty”.

Bacall remained very close with Rock after making that film. She's seen all over him in those Roddy McDowell vintage beach party home movies.

[quote]After the screening at the premiere, Bogart turned to Bacall and said “I wouldn’t make many more like that one, Betty”.

And then he died.

I always thought Rock and Julie Andrews was an odd pairing which may explain why Darling Lili was a bomb. He might have been good in Victor/Victoria playing a straight man who is prepared to fall in love with a woman who poses as a gay man.

Rock and Andrews loathed each other. The Darling Lil shoot was one of Hudson's worst experiences. The director was Julie Andrew's closeted husband Blake Edwards. When the bitchy Andrews pushed Hudson too far shrieking "We have nothing in common!" Hudson snapped back "Wrong. We have your husband." In front of the crew no less. Touché from the normally easy going Rock.

R109 a source for that?

You want Darling Lili to work better? Replace Hudson with Garner.

No, it still would have stunk with Garner

[quote]Julie Andrew's closeted husband Blake Edwards.

Oh, dear.

[quote]He used the closet very effectively, compared to anyone else in pictures at that time

Pictures? Is R25 Gloria Swanson?

R110 Google it you lazy fat fuck.

Put up or shut up, r115.

Julie said Rock was a dear friend, and that they laughed a lot together during the making of DL which is what most people who worked with Rock have said. Doesn't sound like loathing to me.

R117 exactly why I want that poster to give us a source. She’s always said nice things about him.

R118 In addition being a lazy fat fuck if you actually believe things celebrities say about each other for publication in Phoneywood you are a gullible fat fuck frau. Go peruse your Photoplay collection. Stop wasting our time.

as opposed to the things Kenneth Anger said about them, R119?

R116 that’s not how it works. You type lazily.

Can't hear ya with your mouth full . Swallow or shut up ,R116

The deranged Royalass threads must be slow today.

R119 you still haven’t been able to provide a source…

^ They've waddled over her to infest as moronic vermin are want to do.

[quote][R118] In addition being a lazy fat fuck if you actually believe things celebrities say about each other for publication in Phoneywood you are a gullible fat fuck frau. Go peruse your Photoplay collection. Stop wasting our time.

Why so much rancor, r119...miss your nap today?

R126 he’s upset he can’t provide a source for his lie

R116 In 5, 4, 3,2

I really to goodness think Rock Hudson was not gay. He was pictured dating so many beautiful girls. He also had no homosexual characteristics like Mr Liberace who I know 100% was probable gay or maybe just waiting for the right girl. I think if Mr Hudson would have met my Aunt Karen he would have been sexually attracted to her. She had a great sense of humor ( I get mine from her) and she was a terrific dancer ( I get my gracefulness from her too.) Aunty K was a lot like Miss Julie Andrews ( a tad heavier) a really classy lady although her accent was more London Ak then London UK. My point is just you because you want Mr Hudson to be homosexual doesn't mean he was. Where is your proof? BTW he got the AIDS from a heart operation not from filth gay sex stuff.

I'm not R109, but the Andrews/Hudson loathing each other story comes from David Bret's 2004 bio of Hudson ("Rock Hudson," pp. 156-160). Bret cites "a Paramount spokesman who insisted on remaining anonymous" as his only source.

Do you attention, r128, is that what you need? Everybody stop what you're doing and give r128 some attention.

R127 Yep the Meghan Markle troll threads echo chambers must be full. You can smell their psycho cellulite fuming off the screen. They all stank alike.

R130 One day you neurotic cows may actually come up with an original thought or coherent response not indicative of a 14yo fatty but we're not holding our breath.

Another thread wrecked by the Cowuen

How many anonymous Paramount executives do you lunch with at the Krispy Kreme R127?

will the documentary talk about that money grubbing pile of shit Mark Christian?

So did David Bret lie about Rock and Julie?

Didn't James Garner have a deep friendship with Blake Edwards? Weren't there rumors Garner and Blake were more than friends? Taking vacations in Morocco or something like that?

Where does James Franco and his stint on "General Hospital" fit into this?

R137 dream on

Garner has never been linked to a woman outside of his wife. What about the men?

R140, There were rumors linking him to Betty Bacall.

She fucked a lot of men after Bogey died, Mr. Robards Jr. notwithstanding.

R142, She was only 32 when Bogart died.

Like I said, she fucked. A lot.

Yes. He was a whore

Rock was generally an easy going guy but when he got fed up with Julie he said the two words Blake never wanted to be said out loud: Craig Stevens!

All That Heaven Allows...

Never could understand why that gorgeous slab of meat Ron Kirby would want with widow Scott. Jane Wyman was just all wrong on many levels; starting with that hairstyle.

I can't believe Jane was still in her 30s when she did All That Heaven Allows. She looked so frau-y

But you could still make out the “stirring in her loins!”

R148 she was made to look that way. It’s a movie. Hair and makeup made her look like that.

Underrated Rock Hudson movie is This Earth is Mine. A mix of Giant and Written on the Wind featuring Jean Simmons, Dorothy McGuire in an atypical role as the villain, and Claude Rains in one of his last great roles.

R150, except she looked that way in ALL her movies at the time

Dorothy McGuire was the villain in A Tree Grows in Brooklyn…until Francie helped with her labor.

R153 I suppose that's a matter of interpretation. She's antagonistic towards her daughter but not an outright villain, and her behavior mostly stems from being the sole provider for a large family since the father is a drunk and can't sustain a job. Very similar to Emily Watsons' role in Angela's Ashes. McGuire comes closer to a villainess in This Earth is Mine where her motivation is entirely greed for land and power.

FORGOTTEN flop but interesting Rock Hudson movie is Seconds (1966) - see trailer below

Love Seconds

It’s not forgotten on the DL…it’s been mentioned numerous times on very different threads.

R150

Jane Wyman settled on that poodle cut hairstyle sometime in early middle age; she stuck with it in one form or another until day she died.

I haven't seen her in a film with long hair. Even in the early 1940s when she had upswept hair it was only shoulder length when down compared to say Ann Sheridan who had long hair.

She looked better better with long blonde hair.

For reasons one does not understand studio kept trying to make Janye Wyman out to be some sort of hottie early on. It just didn't seem to work IMHO.

Then again maybe "hotness" was where you found it back then.

She was pretty enough in the 30s/40s but most of that era she was just an extra or side character.

Jane Wyman was one of the homeliest actresses out there. They should have chosen someone more attractive for the part. Look at Rock, he deserved better!

Jane wore wigs on the later episodes of “Falcon Crest”.

I would have liked to have seen Joan Crawford in Magnificent Obsession or All That Heaven Allows.

Jane Wyman must have had something going on.

She married and divorced hot bandleader Fred Karger twice, and at one point lured him away from Marilyn Monroe, who was deeply in love with him.

Didn't one of Jane Wyman's husbands carry on with Marilyn Monroe?

Never mind, R166 answered my question

Thanks for the heads up. I have it set to record.

R162 - you know Jane won an Oscar for Johnny Belinda (1948) right?

Jane was entombed wearing a nun’s habit, as was her wish.

Wyman reportedly died in her sleep of natural causes. A member of the Dominican Order (as a lay tertiary) of the Catholic Church, she was buried in a nun's habit.[42] She was interred at Forest Lawn Mortuary and Memorial Park in Cathedral City, California.[1]

Third (Secular) Order of St. Dominic (Dominicans)

June Allison and Jane Wyman were glammed up fantasy frau surrogates for the housewives of 50's suburbia. Hudson was the dreamy lawn boy they fingered themselves wishing they could fuck. Box office gold.

Wyman’s look was perfect for Sirk’s subversive perversion of 50s America. A down low Mamie Eisenhower.

[quote] She fucked a lot of men after Bogey died, Mr. Robards Jr. notwithstanding.

And during.

It all seems rather tawdry and prurient, rather like dancing on someone's grave IMHO.

Rock Hudson isn't here to defend himself and the dead cannot be defamed. What purpose all this lurid tittle-tattle about his memory serves I don't know.

Jack Scalia and Rock Hudson were close friends. That I did not know....

R177, is the documentary tawdry or is the person who wrote that review an uptight prude? The writer sounds quite delusional and neglects to mention that Phyllis Gates was also outed as gay

The writer is obsessed with bisexuality or the possibility of bisexuality - just like my grandmother.

Rock had great beauty and a zest for life. I'm glad he's being celebrated again.

Rock on I Love Lucy.

I'm looking forward to watching tonite.

When does this shit premier? It’s 6/28!

R184, 9:00 PM

I cannot wait. I have had it taped since OP initiated his thread.

Chicago Tribune: ...the film struggles to capture what Hudson’s personality was like in private. Nor does it talk about his drinking, which reportedly became an issue later in life.

But it’s a terrific portrait of how Hollywood once functioned — and the artifice of it all.

SF Chronicle: The engaging HBO documentary “Rock Hudson: All That Heaven Allowed,” both a guilty pleasure and meaningful slice of queer history, delivers a loving yet irony-laced tribute to a closeted movie icon whose tragic death from AIDS changed the course of the epidemic and cemented his place in LGBTQ lore.

Kijak’s boldest move in this straightforward documentary is to weave in Hudson movie clips that serve not only as an acting reel, but as a running commentary about Hudson’s complicated persona, both on- and offscreen. These uncannily ironic clips, loaded with double meanings about gay bachelors and whatnot, may prompt some of those less familiar with Hudson to check out his filmography.

Occasionally, Kijak overuses the clips, getting in the way of the narrative and powerful testimonials from the likes of actresses Piper Laurie and Kathleen Hughes, who never appear onscreen and provide only a disembodied presence. “Dynasty” co-star Linda Evans offers one of the most emotional interviews, but sadly, we also never see her. Making a stronger impression (and appearing onscreen) is writer Armistead Maupin, who plays a key role in Hudson’s ultimate legacy.

“All That Heaven Allowed” isn’t shy about dishing out gossip, whether it’s Hudson’s sexual escapades, pool parties or backstage squabbles with James Dean. Rather than being tawdry, these tidbits serve to humanize Hudson, and remind us that details of his real-life character are in relatively short supply here. Because Kijak is more interested in the big picture of Hudson’s place in queer history, he glosses over the superstar’s troubled family life, drinking and insecurities, leaving us wanting to know more.

It’s apparent from the excellent footage and access that Kijak and his team had an embarrassment of riches at their disposal, and not everything could be stuffed into this 104-minute movie. But whatever the time and space limitations, Kijak’s film will stand as a lasting testament to Hudson’s unlikely mark on history, a fate the towering figure could never have foreseen.

How was it?

Several mentions of Rock’s big cock in the documentary.

And, he wanted to know the size of the equipment on the guy he was being set up with on the phone.

Marc Christian was completely omitted except for a brief showing of a photograph.

And nothing on or from Lee Majors?

OP what streaming service is it on?

CNN - At first blush, “Rock Hudson: All That Heaven Allowed” seems determined to find every movie phrase uttered by the actor – famously closeted throughout his career as a leading man – that could be construed to have a double meaning hinting at who he really was. Yet the HBO documentary ultimately provides a sobering window into that time, zooming in on Hudson’s screen roles to coyly illustrate what he was experiencing off it.

R191 MAX

NYTimes review. They gave it a good review.

“Kijak threads together interviews, archival footage and tabloid news headlines to show how Hudson’s fame helped bring the AIDS crisis into the (straight) public consciousness — and how the society that had embraced him as a heterosexual matinee idol swiftly abandoned him in his time of need. (The film is justly, satisfyingly hard on Nancy Reagan, who curtly rejected Hudson’s pleas for help as he was dying.) In the end, with only Hudson to deal with, Kijak gets the big picture.”

^ Fuck the Reagans

R195, Odd that after he attended a White House dinner, Nancy went out of her way to advise Rock to have the pimple on his neck looked at by a doctor that she noticed in photographs taken that evening, yet she ignored the later request to have him treated at a government hospital.

The Marc Christian relationship and resulting lawsuit should have been included.

R196 nothing odd about it. She didn’t know he was gay and didn’t know what that was. Once she found out she wanted nothing to do with him or AIDS.

Do you really think Nancy (and Ronnie) didn't know Rock was gay, r198? Wasn't it an open secret in Hollywood forever?

R198, How naive of you to honestly believe Nancy Reagan did not know Rock was gay by the 1980s.

Of course she knew. All of Hollywood knew.

Another good review. Sounds like the main problem is the doc is too short

The Reagans had gay friends and surely knew Hudson was gay

They just didn't want to publicly associate with a guy who had AIDS

Just a note about Jane Wyman - didn't she really not become a major star until the end of the 1940s when she was already middle aged? So....no surprise that she looked and behaved....middle aged. But I think that was apparently her appeal in the 1950s to female audiences.

Kind of like how Trump started distancing himself from Roy Cohn

R203, Jane Wyman was only 31 when she won an Oscar in 1948 and she looked great.

With or without AIDS, Roy Cohn is someone from whom anyone with an ounce of humanity running through their veins, would want to disassociate themselves.

R199 speculation isn’t something of fact. I can suspect you’re gay but until I see proof or you tell me it’s only that, speculation. His open secret was with studio heads, who made him get married to kill that rumor. After that everyone assumes otherwise.

R206, Trump wishes Roy Cohn was still around.

R200 she didn’t. He wouldn’t be at the White House if Reagan knew. And if she knew and still invited him she wouldn’t have turned her back on him the minute it came out he was gay. Which she did.

R202 who were their openly gay friends? Please share

The Reagans frequently allowed Nancy’s interior designer, Ted Graber, and his longtime male partner to spend nights in the White House.

One of Nancy’s best buddies was Jerome Zipkin, and you can’t get much gayer than him.

Her favorite designer and close friend was James Galanos, another uber gay.

R211 I know those men but have never heard they were sleeping over the White House. Sources for this?

R207/R209 are obviously posting from another dimension.

TCM recently ran "Tab Hunter Confidential." Tab seemed to be a bit more reserved, Rock was much more gregarious. Rock was definitely the better actor.

What struck me most about Tab Hunter documentary was that despite being screwed by his agent Henry Willson, despite being screwed by Tony Perkins, and forced to live the most productive years of his life in the closet, he ended up being a very happy, contented man, someone who was finally at peace with themself, and doing what he loved best, being an equestrian on his ranch.

R209, everyone in Hollywood knew Rock Hudson was gay, including Nancy and Ronald Reagan. And both of them were plugged into the world of Hollywood gossip, even if they were spending a lot of time in DC, so they also knew full well that Rock was HIV+.

Unfortunately, AIDS took Rock away before he could retire and relax and enjoy what his hard work produced, so we'll never get the kind of self-reflection that Tab gave us.

In one part of the documentary they talk about how he went into crisis with AIDS in Paris, the french hospital refused to treat him because they said he was not french, commercial airlines would not fly him because they would not fly people with AIDS. A friend reached out to Nancy Reagan and asked her to help by allowing Rock to go to a military hospital or help transport him home. They got a letter back saying she was declining to help because she thought it best the White House not intervene. He was dying in a hospital where no one would help him. Not much of a friend.

Instead a friend finally was able to charter a private plane to get him back to the US to get medical care. I wasn't a fan of the Reagans but I did buy into the myth that Nancy liked gay people, she was just navigating around Ronald and the politics. Fuck that and her.

R212 . . .

R213 no. I’m posting as someone who knows how the 80s were. Not someone pretending they were something other than what they were, and what they were was VERY anti-gay. It wasn’t openly gay people given platforms and treated well. It was the opposite

R217 doesn’t that headline contradict your claims of her loving gays and treating them well???

R214 everyone didn’t know. Your rewriting of history needs to stop.

Obvious insanity has entered this thread.

R219, Why not read the article before posting idiotic comments?

The problem with the documentary was it covered all of his life so it kind of had to gloss over everything. It did interview all of the ex lovers who were alive and went through the truth, his relationships etc. but they could do a good documentary just on Rock and his AIDS diagnosis and how everyone reacted, and another documentary on Rock and his long term relationships, and another on his fake marriage and being blackmailed by his fake wife, paying her off etc. They could just mention this stuff and move on when I wanted to know more.

Maybe if this is new information to people though it would be a broad sweep of the highlights.

R222 again, you claim she loved the gays. History tells us otherwise. Facts have shown us otherwise.

R223 AKA they could have done it into a documentary mini series, like 4 episodes or something.

R225 I was suggesting they could have picked one topic and really gone in depth, rather than a broad surface level documentary. But I would be all in favor of a mini-series too.

I hope they mentioned Adele Sliff!

Nancy must have known he was gay since he was the only major male star in Hollywood who didn't want one of her famous blowjobs.

This was another gay man who was friends with the Reagans

I just finished watching. I liked it.

Things I didn't know:

He had a big dick.

He also liked guys with big cocks.

Seemed to go for twinks.

Had pool parties with bunches of hot guys.

I loved all the interviews with the older gay guys, especially the one who said that Rock liked guys with big "baskets". Never heard that term, before. The same guy said that Rock's cock was so big that he wasn't going to let him put it in him.

When it got to the AIDS portion, that was just so sad. I remember Rock on Dynasty and when he died, but I wasn't even a teenager and so a lot of the early days of AIDS is sort of a blur. Had not idea that they had to rent a plane to get him home, because a commercial airliner wouldn't allow AIDS patients on the plane. It was also shitty of the Reagans not to help him get into that French Military Hospital.

Finally, someone should make a movie about Henry Wilson. Also poor Tab Hunter got thrown under the bus to save Rock.

Also, one more point. I want to find a grand eldergay and just hug him. Those older gays were really great in this doc. Their stories and what they've seen and survived. We're all going to end up there, we should treat them with a little more respect.

The Reagans were the absolute scum of the Earth. That cock gobbling bitch should have died in a grease fire along with her fucking husband.

R34- Why were slurs hurled at him but not Cary Grant- Was it because more people were aware that he was gay over Cary Grant?

They were really shitty. Nancy sends his assistant a note to get that weird pimple on his neck checked, but when he really needed her help she said no. How in the hell could she live with herself.

Nancy should’ve arranged a flight with her own money. If she couldn’t, why didn’t ask her wealthy friends to arrange it?

Agree r231. They are smart and truly precious in this documentary. And funny.

R235, It said on the documentary that the chartered flight cost $250,000.00.

Rock was worth millions, he could afford it.

I love how in that recorded phone conversation between Rock and his friend trying to set him up how Rock asked how was the guy's equipment and the guy says 9 inches. You could almost hear Rock drooling over the phone.

Rock’s last boyfriend.

Marc Christian was hot

This has been posted before on another thread, but for those who haven’t seen it, it’s very entertaining.

I enjoyed it, but just a few of the people/things omitted: Marc Christian, Susan St. James, John Schuck, Jack Scalia, Rock "discovering" Lee Majors and bringing him to Hollywood, Pat Boone and loony evangelicals somehow getting into the house and praying over his dying body, and the repulsive quickie biography of him written by Sara Davidson shortly after his death.

They also didn't cover who got that magnificent house.

R242, The house was sold, destroyed and a new house was built on the property by the buyer.

He was a shockingly capable actor. If you haven’t seen the film Seconds (1966), do so. Beyond being a good film by itself, it gave Hudson an opportunity to break out of his matinee idol mold and tackle an actual heavy role - and he does so magnificently. It’s a shame no other New Hollywood directors wanted to give him a chance in more psychological thriller type things like Burt Lancaster or Robert Mitchum got to do. The latter two men were much better actors but perhaps that’s because they got more opportunities to be.

I love Seconds

On a lighter note, there’s a hilarious portion of the Warhol diaries where Andy goes to Rock’s New York estate sale and only bemoans how tacky all his furniture and belongings were.

NYT claims Mark Rappaport's Rock Hudson's Home Movies is a superior film. Since I found that film dreck this doesn't give me much hope for the new one.

R12, that makes me sad and angry . Rock was a good guy and this abuse is horrible

I'm still thinking about those older gays in the documentary. Even though many were living dual or secret lives, it seemed like they were having so much fun in those moments when they could be themselves. The guy that talked about all the fun at the gay beach and at the pool parties, and going to the drag bar. And then Rock just lived this weird dual life and they just went with it. They also seemed to be okay with being Rock's guy of the moment. Then AIDS happened and then it all just changed.

Learning all that stuff about Rock was interesting, but those older gays really touched me. Go ahead call me Mary!

Agree r249. The documentary was odd in that so much of it was audio and film clips of Hudson. Felt a bit disconnected.

The adorable older gays were the best part. Would rather watch a documentary about them to be honest.

I was kind of hoping they would at least mention the couple of seasons that Rock spent blowing getting fucked by the football players at the University of Kentucky.....where he met Lee Majors.

Oh well. I did like all of the clips and hearing Rock talk.....it was sort of shock to see photos of the hot young guys - and then seeing how they look now. Time marches on.

[quote]I was kind of hoping they would at least mention the couple of seasons that Rock spent blowing getting fucked by the football players at the University of Kentucky.....where he met Lee Majors.

Maybe that wouldn't pass legal.

More likely because it’s a bulkshit story.

*also bullshit

If Rock Hudson was a top how did he get AIDS?

Oh my god—^. Go away

The doc doesn't have much new material.

I did snort about the phone call where an "old friend" calls him up to suggest he hook up with this charming boy. "How is he equipped" was Rock's first question. (Apparently, the boy had 9.).

Other testimonies in the movie about what a committed SIZE QUEEN Rock was. And he had a big dick himself, too.

Nothing wrong with that!

Haven't seen this doc yet but it's interesting to hear that so many of the talking heads are just heard and not seen - is that correct? Because in the recent MTM doc the same method is used and I sort of preferred it that way, it kept the focus on Mary herself.

They show some of the older guys. Pictures of when they were young and as they are now. But most of the doc is voice overs and clips of Rock's dialogue from his various films and interviews.

R241, I watched that Larry King video and it was interesting but sad. It was actually a very homophobic piece in its own way. Even as late as 2003, thyme all wanted to suggest that Rock's relationships with men were ok because he also liked women. Diane Ladd (more of a nut then I realized) wanted to blame his problems with women on some guilt about his birth. Gina Lollobrigida, a worldly woman, insisted he was straight when they worked together but "became" gay later. Liz Smith, who was very closeted herself and later came out very clearly as gay, went on and on how much she was attracted to him. Tony Randall, not exactly immune from gay rumors, quickly distanced himself from any personal relationship with Rock saying they only saw each other on the set.

/Diane Lane not Diane Ladd

I'm going to cut that generation a little bit of slack, R261. I just don't think they knew any other way.

[quote]Wyman’s look was perfect for Sirk’s subversive perversion of 50s America. A down low Mamie Eisenhower.

Unlike that WHORE Jane Wyman, I only had extra-marital relations with Colored gentlemen, which Ike completely understood.

I was surprised how interesting the documentary was, given how uninteresting Hudson seemed to be.

I couldn't finish watching that Larry King video. It was pathetically creepy on all levels. Actually, Elaine Stritch came off best, which is really saying something.

R262, No, Diane Ladd.

Wow, I loved this doc. I’d never heard of Tales of the City Before—now really want to read it. Props to Liz Taylor for being a salt of the earth fruit fly. I thought it was interesting that Rock never questioned the closet and then admitted AIDS sort of with a shrug. Also if he was so torn up about kissing Linda Evans why did he sign up to be on the show? Did he need the paycheck? 🤔

“I’d never heard of Tales of the City”

I’d never expect to read that on DL.

I may be a doofus but I figured all the standard "gay" requirements- 9 inches, working out were kind of an 80's and after thing-

It floored me to see these old gay men and that recorded phone call (from the 50's?) all talking in a way about these things- 9 inches, working out, big baskets...

I am 44 now and have never been really very mainstream in gay life with all of the bullshit. lingo, uphemisms--everything i have learned I have pretty much learned here.

For some reason I was taken aback that gay life has ALWAYS been like this!

And let me second the fact that Elizabeth Taylor was a GOOD woman. just a special person.

I came away liking Linda Evans very much too.

R270 until recently almost no gays filtered their sexual preferences and their speaking about their sexual preferences. If they wanted horse hung Puerto Rican TEENS, they stuck to that proudly and were not afraid to say so. It was all before politically correctness, diversity, fairness, kindness, respect for the law, and now wokeness. You are very naive about history and human nature.

R271- I am not disagreeing with you. I am.

"Magnificent Obsession," with Rock and another Mrs. Reagan, on TCM tonight (8PM ET).

R271 is the right-wing troll who whines about wokeness when it was "woke" liberals who fought for gay rights and the "anti-woke" conservatives who fought against us.

r230

and he was a top??? That surprised me the most I think

Let me just say I watched the doc tonight and loved it, thought it was brilliantly put together.

I was bored by it.

It rather enjoyed seeing a young Armistead Maupin semi-nude. As a young thin military man with southern roots, his charm was evident.

How many guys do you think Rock slept with?

Three sailors and a jockey but never your husband!

Was Rock masculine in real life ?

R215, it's amazing to think the Reagans, of all people, could be such horrible people who treated their friends like utter shit.

Just amazing, I mean, the Reagans! Such great people otherwise.

Found it online!

r282 What were you expecting the Reagans to do? In 1985 US military hospitals had no experience treating HIV patients and thats even if RH was legally allowed to be treated there. The French otoh were far more advanced in HIV research.

R284, The Reagans could be rather cold hearted. They had planned a large party at their California home the evening of Saturday, November 23, 1963.

With the nation in shock over the President being murdered the day before, the Reagans decided not to cancel the party and it went on as planned.

He died at 59. So young.

I seem to remember the French hospital announcement that Rock had AIDS being different to what is shown in the documentary. Here it looks like the woman is in the car park.

R287, That was it. She addressed the media outside the hospital.

Was interesting when Linda Evans was talking back the Rock kiss blowback and how some of her co-stars wouldn't do new scenes with her. Wonder if that included John Forsythe?

Interesting choice not to have Linda Evans or Piper Laurie seen on camera and only use their voice overs. Do you think seeing them in advanced age like some of Rock's old lovers would have been too sad and shocking?

I wonder if Carol Burnett was approached for her views on Rock? Didn't they do some theater projects together in the late 70s? And where was Susan St. James for commentary?

I found Henry Willson to be the one of the most fascinating characters in Rock's life and in this documentary.

Much was made in the doc of how the new post-WWII image of masculinity had changed to a more rugged type and how Willson understood that phenomena and yet the names he chose for his clients, including Rock and Tab, were hardly able to be taken seriously. And all those staged shirtless beefcake pin up photos that Willson advocated - was there anything honestly masculine or serious about them?

“All that heaven allowed” is such a queeny MARY title for a documentary about a closeted himbo.

R292, It’s based on the movie Rock made with Jane Wyman, “All That Heaven Allows”.

[quote]How many guys do you think Rock slept with?

It was probably quite a high number. What I find interesting is that it seems like he carried on this gay life and that everyone in Hollywood knew and said nothing. He fucked guys all over the place and they said nothing. Other than rumors, no one seemed to go to the press. And if the tabloids got too close, Wilson would just offer them up someone else and they'd be fine with it. It truly was a different world.

I saw this last night and liked it. There's nothing terribly new in it (for those who've mined the archives for Rock Hudson history) but there were lots of great photos and some very good interviews. One thing that grated, though, was the abundance of his film clips that were spliced in as witty (I suppose) double-entendres, especially toward the end. I mean, a few here and there would have been a spicy addition, but it became annoying after a while, and detracted (for me) from the poignancy. I mean, we get it already. As in, when he's dying, we get a deluge of film snippets of Rock Hudson talking about death. And campy, ambiguous clips that really belabor the "wink-wink" shtick. Less of that would have amounted to much more. One thing I found strangely touching was the recording of "So Long, Be Well" sung by Rock himself (had no idea he sang) as the end credits rolled.

As a tangent, here's an article by Mark King about his night with Rock.

At one point when they were talking about Rock's lovers they put a few photos up on the screen.....I have to go back and watch it again......but I remember Troy Donahue's picture being among them.

They were both a Universal-International in the late 50's and made a movie together "The Tarnished Angels".....so there you are. And Troy/Merle was a Willson client.

I remember Tab Hunter saying once he and Tony Perkins were at a party and Troy seemed interested in a three-way until Tony showed him his big cock. Troy opted out.

Another interesting character who I would like to know more about is Phyllis Gates. She later wrote that she didn't know that Rock was gay. I find that hard to believe. The doc made it seem like there were lesbian rumors around her and that it was an arranged/lavender marriage.

Phyllis Gates was called out in a divorce settlement....a guy claimed Phyllis was fooling around with his wife!

She ate pussy

Phyllis Gates obit from the LA Times.

Please find archive copies of the tabloids from the 50s with all of the gay slander. There was lots of vintage headlines from them shown in the doc

Try this R300

And this

Thx r301 r302

Henry Willson’s demise . . .

“In his later years, Willson struggled with drug addiction, alcoholism, paranoia, and weight problems. Because his own homosexuality had become public knowledge, many of his clients, both gay and straight, distanced themselves from him for fear of being branded the same. In 1974, the unemployed and destitute agent moved into the Motion Picture & Television Country House and Hospital, where he remained until he died of cirrhosis of the liver. With no money to cover the cost of a gravestone, he was interred in an unmarked grave in Valhalla Memorial Park Cemetery in North Hollywood, California. A headstone was eventually placed at his burial site with the epitaph "Star - Star Maker".“

R285, that is disgusting and tasteless but hey, that's the Reagans. This was the president who was caught laughing about AIDS victims on audio.

Maupin took me into the gloryholes to meet Hudson. I was 6'5" and blond. It was just like the scene in the movie.

Has there been a documentary about Henry Willson? I know there's the bio by Robert Hofler who was quoted and interviewed for the doc.

Has any interviewer ever had the balls to ask Lee Majors about Rock Hudson?

It’s no secret that Rock had a hand(no pun intended) in launching Lee’s career.

it was 1976 or 1977 I think. Maupin invited me to the parties in LA but I did not go.

R307, Jim Parsons played Henry Willson in that “Hollywood” series on Netflix.

I wouldn't exactly call Ryan Murphy's "Hollywood" a documentary, r310.

Lee Majors should have been interviewed.

Along with all those former University of Kentucky football players Rock fucked

what's the story with the UK players?

Not the best doc I ever saw.

Read The Thin Thirty to learn about the UK football players

are you 5' 5' and grey now?

I was supposed to go to LA and fuck Hudson in a private session. Maupin, me and another friend were supposed to rent a luxury car, drive down the coastal highway and stay for a week in a luxury hotel. It was going to cost $2000 which I didn't have. The other problem was I was a bottom and would have been a failure in bed. The other guy was also a tall blond guy. I did it with Hudson in the glory holes and passed the test there - I had a large dick and was taller than him - I was 24 at the time. I met him a couple of times after that socially. It was weird seeing in the gloryholes in the movie. Hudson had his favorite booth there. I had not seen it since then. it brought back memories.

Were you contacted about the doc BobinAustin55?

Damn R317. Thanks for spilling! Feel free to tell more stories about Maupin and that time period.

Though there's something against god's plan for a 6'5" big dicked man to be a bottom!

There have been enough first hand testimonials over the years that it's clear Rock was versatile.

I was a very talented artist. When I first moved to SF I painted bathhouses. I contacted Maupin to offer to do sorta Joy of Gay sex illustrations for Tales. I gave him a bunch of stuff from my portfolio including a beautiful drawing of Jack Ford, the president's son. I went out with him a few times when he was staying on the Marina green and then when he lived on Castro. Nothing came of the drawings idea for tales. Maupin and I were completely mismatched sexually and lost contact after a year or so. I used to see him all the time and he was always very friendly. I never felt like I really knew him and he had a thick facade protecting himself from others. My first lover in SF was a very handsome dark-haired and huge top - those were wild times. Like Maupin, I am obviously still around.

R318 no nobody contacted me. My partner was watching the gloryhole part of the doc with me - everybody knows my Rock Hudson story - have been telling it all my life. I thought I was the only one. I have posted it here many times.

R295 I agree that the overuse of film clips really detracted from the documentary. Also thought it didn’t do justice to the absolute media frenzy surrounding his hospitalization in Paris and his final days.

Watched it today after my heterosexual cousins told me they had seen it. Very good documentary. What gets me is how nice Rock was to his circle of friends. He should have put a contract out on Phyllis Gates, though. Greedy cunt.

BobinAustin55 was his cock as big as everyone said?

It was dark in the gloryhole stalls and I was freaked-out because of who it was I don't remember.

Am I the only eldergay who didn't remember Rock owning up to having AIDS in a press release? I would have sworn he'd died denying it though, of course, there's the contrary evidence in the documentary, telling me my memory is wrong. He did die never coming out, however. I remembered that correctly.

Did Rock own up to his identity in the glory hole, BobAustin55?

Yes, he wanted to see me again and Maupin introduced us in the gloryhole place.

You don't remember his cock size!!

Bad bottom!

Was Rock very chatty, BobAustin55? If so, what did he like to talk about?

I only saw him socially twice - once he was in town doing "On the 20th Century" with Imogine Coca. Yes, he was very chatty. He loved attention from fans. People kept asking him for autographs. One guy asked him to sign an album he had recorded. Coca was really sweet. He offered to drive me around in his stretch limo and take me home.

[quote] Was Rock masculine in real life ?

From what I heard from a couple of people who knew him he was never femme but he also wasn't butch initially and his macho man act was something he polished with Henry Wilson when he arrived in Hollywood, along with other fixes like having his teeth straightened. I also heard that he was so at ease with his gay friends he could camp it up like the best of them until the end of his life.

I remember reading in that quickie bio of Rock's life that at one point Lee Garlington learned that of all the fuck buddies and partners that Rock was with, it was Lee who Rock mentioned as being the love of his life.

R313 that story is in a book called The Thin Thirty.......kinda pricey but the Kindle version on Amazon is only $2.99.

I watched the doc again and the only other face I recognized besides Troy Donahue was Jeffrey Hunter.

Henry Willson was fug. Those poor guys must really have been thirsty for fame to sleep with him.

For those who were annoyed by the film clips that can be read as double meanings you would hate Rock Hudson's Home Movies.

Although Rock was spectacular looking even on his arrival in Hollywood, it was evident from the home movies and early photos that he needed some cosmetic dental work. And a moisturizer.

he was a moisturizer!

That young pic of him with his relatives makes it look like he is with the cast of Freaks.

I never knew that Doug McClure was a Henry Willson client.

Also, for a while in the 1950s, Natalie Wood was a Henry Willson client.

How about Troy McClure, r341?

r342

of course

Boring movie with nothing new to say.

^Yeah, the only thing I learned was how truly out of his depth Hudson was in some of those roles he got.

I found it odd that that phone call about the young guy who wanted to meet Rock was recorded.

I’m still reeling from the guy who said that Rock tried to fuck him and could not because it was too big.

Lee Garlington really lost it.

totally r345. He was pretty to look at, but he was a horrible actor. The clips of James Dean acting circles around Rock Hudson remind me why I hated Giant.

He is so hot in that pic at r308. Love hot guys in glasses.

Agree about GIANT. I've never understood the love and respect for that film. Almost 3 hours and nothing happens except for a lot of really bad aging makeup and Streaks 'n; Tips in everyone's hair. I can't imagine why Rock was nominated for an Oscar.

It’s been awhile since ive seen Giant, but I don’t remember Rock doing anything remarkable in it, and I’m a fan of his. It’s pales in comparison to his work in Seconds. He definitely improved as an actor after the Doris Day films and some of the fluff he had to do. Ileana Douglas in the doc moaning about how he should’ve won was ridiculous. Ya. Up against Brynner, Douglas, Dean and Olivier?! Rock probably came in fifth. Ironically Yul (who won the Oscar over him) and Rock died about a week apart in 1985.

Rock Hudson died on October 2, 1985.

Yul Brynner and Orson Welles both died on October 10, 1985.

Who knew October 1985 was such a cunt?

me!

my planned coming out birthday...

well, that was put off.

Did Lee Garlington possibly have a stroke or something?

R202, have you forgotten how close Nancy was to Merv Griffin?

R356 - i thought that too. He seemed immobilized.

Just imagine! An 80-something gent....immobilized.

[quote]I watched the doc again and the only other face I recognized besides Troy Donahue was Jeffrey Hunter.

There were several pictures of gorgeous Guy Madison with Henry Willson, particularly when Willson's biographer is talking about young, good-looking men using their sex to get signed by him.

Rock was in a long term relationship with an older man the last ten years of his life. Does anyone remember his name?

R360 - RJ was in one pic too.

Was it George Nader? I had assumed they were best friends. He had a life partner, Mark Miller who was also close to Rock.

Oh Yes Mark Miller is shown in the Paris footage and comments how Rock looks wonderful!

I seem to remember a Tom something?

Why isn't Marc Christian mentioned in the documentary? Wasn't he Rock's companion in his later years?

R366- I haven't seen this yet but I have never liked him and I feel he targeted RH and planned to use him by blackmail if necessary. Then RH was diagnosed with AIDS but even then they had a very difficult time getting that grifter to leave RH's home. He was a parasite.

Poor Rock. Seemed like an affable, fun guy who had a big dick and loved to use it. Atta boy.

Anyone remember the story told by a DLer who had been hitchhiking (in California, I believe) one night and was picked up by solo driver R. Hudson? They ended up having some kind of sex, and the DLer said Rock smelled of leather and armpits and had a huge cock.

It was nice to see Hudson pool party attender and fellow suspected homosexual Burt Lancaster a couple times in this documentary.

Is it worth the watch? My husband and I have been so excited to watch his documentary, we just have not had the time.

you are up at 3 am and have not an hour of spare time?

R370 uhm it was10:50 pm when I wrote my post. 11:50 now. No, I have a life. We had a busy weekend with friends and changing out our 55 gallon fish tank to a 75.

So, I’m sorry some of us have busy lives. I’m off to bed now.

toodles! sweet dreams, john-boy.

R371 calls changing a fish tank “having a life!” Too funny.

I'm really looking forward to watching this with my lover. But all our dear old friends have been arriving in Capri this week and it's been a whirlwind. Mona has a fabulous new face! Must dash to Le Botteghe now, as Kenneth has been waiting a year for the totani. A dopo!

R373 - it is for the fish.

That clip of Rock on The Joan River Show was funny. He says he never reads tabloids and she says he's in them all the time.

#joanknew

[quote]#joanknew

Everybody in Hollywood knew. What I am unclear about is what the general public knew. If DL had been around back then, would there have been threads on Rock Hudson?

My parents knew. They knew in the seventies.

Back in the early 70s, a girl who lived across the street told me about the Rock Hudson/Jim Nabors wedding. I didn't believe it, but her mom (a registered nurse) swore she had seen the invitation.

I never knew the story behind that -- that some gay guys sent out phony invites -- until this documentary.

We knew, R378.

As heavy a smoker as he was, it’s not likely he would have lived very much longer absent AIDS,

That phone call with Rock asking about the potential dates "equipment" is fucking creepy. What an invasion of privacy.

Rock apparently became enamored of a physical fitness hottie who he hired to train him privayely, after he was saying he had anorexia and/or some kind of cancer instead of admitting to AIDS. The guy accepted all of the bling offered to him by Rock, but allegedly kept it in his pants and played the game till Rock died.

"Tom" was a long time BF who was in and out of Rock's life for years. After the AIDS reveal, Tom returned and took charge at the Hudson house.

Pat Boone's wife showed up with a gaggle of her friends and prayed over Rock, speaking in tongues.

Are you all shocked at how openly Rock lived in the 1970s? He constantly took so many dangerous chances. I mean shocked that he didn't seem to be hiding his sexuality, that he apparently felt the press, and therefore the public, couldn't or wouldn't touch him?

Why do you think the press, even without the intervention of Henry Willson or a big studio like Universal to protect him, continued for so long to be hands off? Was the reporting considered simply to be too salacious and distasteful by the 1970s?

[quote] Why do you think the press, even without the intervention of Henry Willson or a big studio like Universal to protect him, continued for so long to be hands off?

The entertainment press played the game because it was in their interest, too. Their readership was mostly frau who wanted to believe their idols were straight ... and available to them.

It was easier for stars to hide in the pre-internet era

R385, It's no different than how the press protected JFK and his womanizing when he was POTUS.

The press knew what a hound he was, yet they kept their mouths shut.

Would never happen today.

[quote] The press knew what a hound he was, yet they kept their mouths shut.

It's also true that the almost-exclusively male (& randy) Washington press corps had a gentleman's agreement that their dalliances would be off-record as much as those of the pols they covered.

The reason that stars were even able to exist back then was because the mainstream press was mostly not focused on tearing on them down as people. Hollywood especially was a company town, a well liked money maker was not going to be targeted for outing. This applied to all other areas of public life -most music rags weren’t doing exposes on musicians. It’s a very recent development to want your entertainers or public figures to be publicly torn down.

I thought the press changed after the introduction of Confidential magazine. Before that we got puff pieces in Photoplay and the like.

Confidential changed things somewhat, but it was pretty easy to buy them off (ask Henry Willson)

R390, Photoplay ran an occasional hard hitting piece. They ran an article exposing a number of star couples living together without marriage, like Gable and Lombard, which ruffled some studio head feathers.

But it was Hedda and Louella who were not afraid to expose a star who was doing something they considered wrong or immoral.

was it photoplay who had the feature of Cary Grant and Randolph Scott sharing a house?

This is the Photoplay article that caused such a furor.

[quote] But it was Hedda and Louella who were not afraid to expose a star who was doing something they considered wrong or immoral.

They never outed anyone, though, did they?

Doesn't Rock make an anonymous appearance in John Rechy's "City of Night?" There was a story about a very famous male star showing up at a notorious gay bar in Hollywood and it was the subject of many discussions when it was first published. Many guesses, but it always went back to it being Rock Hudson.

Hopper wrote in a book in the 60s a veiled expose of Stewart Granger and Michael Wilding. She was sued by Wilding I think. Didn’t live much longer and I think the suit was damaging to her reputation or career. Naturally, she had many enemies who did not wish her well.

I think she was nasty about the guys’ marriages to much younger women in the 50s...Jean Simmons and Elizabeth Taylor...feeling the girls were being exploited because they were naive.

Spencer Tracy and Joseph Cotten both physically assaulted Hedda; she wrote unsavory stories about both of them in her toxic column.

One of them kicked her in her ass and the other one pulled her chair out from under her as she was sitting down. She was a miserable cunt and it could not have happened to a more deserving woman.

I thought either Hedda or Louella quasi-outed Cary Grant

But it's interesting that in the 1950s Rock understood he would need to get married but by the 1970s he didn't give a fuck. That's what I was getting at in my lame questions at r384, the difference in attitudes, both his and the press, in those decades.

Pure schmaltz.

I never understand why any of these lavendar marriages don't work out. If both partners knowingly enter into a loveless arrangment, what's not to work?

Mad about the boy...

Stinky linky, r403, as we used to say around here.

We briefly reminisced about Rock and Gomer’s wedding.

r404...

^ It was a sunny day in Canada, wasn’t it?

I enjoyed this. I didn't know too much about him since he died when I was in grammar school.

It must have been terrible having to look over your shoulder every time you wanted cock!

When he was near death, the older parking lot attendant where I worked informed me he had died one morning after I parked my car. I dutifully reported the news when I arrived at the office. But he had not then died. I later told the attendant that it was not nice to prematurely report one’s death.

^ Then you found your car had been keyed.

Rock Hudson was an actor who made people smile.

Brad Pitt has the same vibe.

“ It must have been terrible having to look over your shoulder every time you wanted cock!”

Yes, it really is.

I knew. I always knew.

Found a free to watch RH's Home Movies.

R415 Linking again to RUSSIAN SPY SITE. Congrats, dipshit!

R365 - Tom Clark wrote a book called Rock Hudson Friend of Mine which was published in 1989.

Did Hudson continue to have sex with people after finding out he had AIDS?

Marc Christian contended that he did, R418. That was the basis of the lawsuit he filed against Rock's estate.

R419, that is really devastating to hear. I do realize that it was a different time and we didn't know nearly enough about AIDS and HIV as we do now but still. That is heinous, wreckless behavior. I still like Rock but that does diminish my opinion of him a bit.

R420- Even the Dynasty story did not put Rock in the best of light- Not that disimilar.... That's why I ended up really respecting Linda Evans after this- she was nothing but sympathetic. Should Rock have told the producers? Probably. It was really a new frontier so I cannot judge anyone-

R421, I was just thinking of the same thing. I do have a lot of respect for Linda, good for her for being so compassionate to Rock. I do wonder what would have happened to Rock if he had pursued more challenging movies like Seconds. Maybe he'd be revered as a great actor, not just a great star.

I do wonder who treated Linda differently on the Dynasty set after the kiss.

R421, The "Dynasty" producers had to suspect that Rock was infected with the AIDS virus, given that it was rumored in the tabloids at the time.

Ray Sharkey continued to have sex without telling his partners he was infected.

"Sharkey was diagnosed as HIV positive in the late 1980s. He reportedly contracted the virus through intravenous drug use. After his death, Sharkey’s manager Herb Nanas admitted that they both decided to keep his diagnosis a secret fearing it would hurt his career."

R425 . . .

"Despite his diagnosis, Sharkey remained in denial about his HIV-positive status and, according to his manager, had sex with an estimated 100 women after he was diagnosed."

R400 it is not that he lived openly gay. He didn’t. He just knew how to play the game by that point. He’d been doing it for over 20 years by that point. He wasn’t out kissing men in public though. He would just walk outside with them and go to dinner with them etc. If anyone asked they could say they were just at dinner. You’re also forgetting that this was before the internet. Only people who see you in person see you in person. The rest of the world doesn’t. It’s not like now.

Also, those of you going on and on about the general public knowing he’s gay, most didn’t. The documentary even makes it clear of how things were back then with homosexuality, it was something you weren’t even allowed to discuss. It wasn’t a topic of conversation like it became later. You didn’t acknowledge it and you didn’t speak about it unless to condemn it. If you were gay everyone around you avoided you, you couldn’t get work and you were shunned. Look at what happened to Henry Wilson, and he was someone who cast men. Imagine a star like Hudson, things would be even worse for him.

Homosexuality wasn’t something commonly within the human psyche back then. It was not even brought up most times.

R408 you claim you were in elementary school when he died, so you should 100% know things were still extremely homophobic in the 90s and 00s. Lmao. I swear you trolls are so bad at it. Why bother?

R422 did you watch the documentary? No. He wouldn’t have. He was known by most as a bad actor who became a huge star and A-List actor because of his looks and heartthrob status.

When Seconds came out critics tore it apart. They didn’t praise the film or his performance. They tore it to shreds. The few people who watched it also hated it. It BOMBED at the box office and put a massive dent in his career, on top of all the gossip about his sexuality. The way you all speak about his performance in that was not what people were saying in 1966.

R428 you could not be more mistaken. You write as if the 1960s-70s were the 1860s-70s There are too many people on DL from that era for your b.s. to through unchallenged.

R431 I am 100% correct. The documentary even makes it a point to mention homosexuality was something you never discussed back then. Because it wasn’t. And yes, his career would be over if he were openly gay. Once you were found out as gay that’s it. It’s not like now. Your career and life were over.

You sound young and stupid. Or maybe old and clueless. Pick’em.

R433 dude. You live off your fucking mother. You don’t even have a job lmao. Like please.

No. I’m actually EDUCATED in how the world operated once upon a time and how it works now. I don’t live in the land of make believe like you do. Living off mommy and sitting on Datalounge and LPSG and anonymous sites all day, and making sock accounts to pretend I hooked up with Rock Hudson like you did days ago on here.

^ ¡Loco in la cabeza!

R435 coming from a jobless freak, I’ll take it lmao

You sure have an issue with projecting unemployment onto others. Out of curiosity, why is that?

Rock Hudson packed more living into his 59 years than most could ever imagine.

R430, but history has been very kind to Seconds. Maybe he wouldn't have been acclaimed at the time but he may have been reappraised if he had pursued more roles like that. Just a side thought.

r437 that isn't projection. I went to college and work. I live on my own and pay my own way in life. You do not. You are a grown man living off your mother, no education, and with no job. You are on here all day every single day. Get off of the internet and go get a job.

[quote] I do wonder who treated Linda differently on the Dynasty set after the kiss.

I bet it was Forsythe. 100% asshole.

I bet it was almost everyone, because AIDS was new and people did not know how it could be transmitted or not yet. It was also known as the gay disease at the time.

I’d let my mother know you’ve sent regards—but she died 12 years ago. All the way to the end, she told my siblings and me how much she loved us for taking such good care of her, including paying for all of her expenses over the final decade of her life.

But I’m sure everyone here appreciates how you keep it classy ;) No humor, much anger. Maybe step back from the ledge you seem to be on?

r443 what a good fake sob story. Now go get a job. Or at least an education.

Over 10% of all posts on this thread, from June 8-July 9, from a single angry man (🧐) who’s go to reply is telling everyone else to get a life. 🤙🏼

George Stevens is regarded as the Steven Spielberg of his time. He was Hollywoods biggest Director when he made Giant, that's why it was such a big deal when he cast Rock Hudson in it (as well as the very new James Dean). Dean being cast in a Stevens film so soon really catapulted his name in Hollywood, but sadly he died before filming was even finished.

Hudson and Dean famously hated one another on that set. Hudson felt Dean didn't deserve such a big role in such a big film, as him and Liz had been working for years and paid their dues before earning such a huge film, while Dean was just starting. He always said Stevens only cast Dean because he was the new IT boy and the new hot-hot in town (meaning his career was taking off and on fire, not just a physical thing). In reality I think Hudson resented Dean's method acting approach and how he acted circles around Hudson in their scenes together. Hudson threw a massive fit when they were filming the scene and Dean starts playing with the lasso he is holding. None of that was in the script, something Dean was known for doing (improvising lines and doing his own thing). If you watch the scene, you see Hudson's face and how he keeps looking at Dean after Bick hands Jett the money. None of that was in the script, Hudson was genuinely bothered by what Dean was doing and believed he did those things to bring all the attention to himself. However, it all worked for the characters also so it is great.

Despite Hudson's disdain for Dean, he never really said much about Dean when asked because he believed one should never bad talk the dead, and Dean died before they were even finished filming Giant, and Hudson believed if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all, and he had nothing nice to say about Dean.

r445 much better than you making up fake hookup stories with Rock Hudson like you did upthread. No one is upset, I just know the truth and am sick of your uneducated broke ass always lying.

What fake hookup story do ya mean? Is there a R # or pull quote? An honest question.

[quote]I do wonder who treated Linda differently on the Dynasty set after the kiss.

It was Pamela Sue Martin.

That is why she left.

She was quoted as saying, "I'm blowing this bio-hazard zone. Let Emma Samms deal with the skin lesions and constant dysentery."

Didn't Pamela leave Dynasty before Rock came on? Dexter died a few months ago and his daughter said he was HIV positive.... Lots of Dynasty stars were gay or bi. I worked with Adam (Gordon Thomson) lover, Bob, in the mid-80's.

omg r450 HE IS LYING.

And it was not one person. Jesus people

R440 enough. Education does not make anyone better than anyone else. Shit happens, you do not know his life or history. Stop being a cunt and a narcissistic arrogant asshole. You have no idea how you sound. I feel bad for your coworkers to have to put up with such an arrogant and entitled man. Who gives a fuck if R443 does live at home. He could be disabled and actually was a doctor? You do not know. Karma is a bitch, be very careful.

I live at home: my own coop apt. I’m a lawyer by trade—so that’s only seven years of post-secondary education. My mother really is dead, and I paid for her home & health for over a decade. 🤷🏻‍♂️

r3 from another thread? what happened to him?

Well don't you dare glance at me!

I refused to be in the vicinity of the bitch LONG before she kissed that septic rapscallion.

The reason Nancy Reagan was a friend of Roy Cohn's is the same reason everyone was a friend of Roy Cohn; because the little weasel had all the dirt on everybody and would threaten to use it if provoked.

Exactly how has "history been kind" to SECONDS? I mean, other than the director of this new documentary telling us that to score an unearned point about Rock's acting abilities? I think the only audience that's been kind to that film is the one that's never sat through it in its entirety.

It has a 7.6 on imdb which is actually pretty good. So clearly it's not reviled like it was back then.

Here is the Donahue interview with Mark Christian. Mark comes across well here. But the audience and Donahue definitely don't.

I think the Donahue audience and Donahue himself are great evidence of the American mindset about homosexuality at that time and certainly earlier in our history. Most people just don't want to believe or even hear that their handsome straight-acting idol Rock could be gay. This is why those seedy publications like Confidential never really got a foothold and persuaded the American public with their nasty headlines and articles. And it's why mainstream gossips like Hedda, Louella and Rona never went there.

r457 it hasn't.. Most people do not even know it exists. I knew who Rock was since I was a kid but I had never heard of that movie until recently on DL.

And from most things I have read, the film isn't good.

r458 it has a little over 21k votes. That is low for IMDB

Homosexuality was a career death sentence and personal life death sentence. You did not talk about that and if someone was that you kept far away from them.

R460, the audience was awful and Donahue was pretty flippant in the way he was asking questions, especially at the beginning.

Oh that was just Phil being Phil.

r453 oh, a lawyer you say? Wouldn't a lawyer know about new internet laws involving online stalking, online harassment etc.? Taking peoples photos and editing their faces on nudes bodies etc. is illegal and a form of sexual harassment. Wouldn't you know that every time you mention a certain persons name after they asked you to stop numerous times that you are now harassing? And that you can lose your license for such things?

And what kind of lawyer is on DL all day every single day? I know actual lawyers and they work crazy hours, yet you are always here. Look at the posting history to your accounts.

If you are gonna make up a profession at least make it one that is believable, because you have been posting nonstop.

From IMDB regarding Seconds-

"Although this film is nowadays viewed as a cult classic, European critics at the Cannes Film Festival were so hostile to the film that director John Frankenheimer refused to leave nearby Monte Carlo, where he was shooting Grand Prix (1966), for the press conference. Rock Hudson was sent instead and was unable to answer the critical questions during the hostile session."

no, it did not go well for him and it only hurt his career. The film BOMBED critically and commercially

And just who are these people nowadays, according to IMDb, who regard SECONDS as a cult classic?

I know she isn't popular here and much mocked. But Linda Evans is a very dignified and classy woman.

Mark Christian met Hudson in late 1982 at a fundraiser for then-senatorial candidate Gore Vidal.

“I heard this voice, ‘Where the hell’s the booze?’ I turned and saw Rock Hudson standing next to me.”

I particularly liked the recording of the business like procurement of fresh meat call to Hudson. Very matter of fact and clinical in the description of the possible meat slabs unit dimensions. So you know this was not a one off call, this was a type of call made on the regular. Right to the point and they were off the phone. Is it me, but I think looking back at his life, what he hid, and the interviews, he comes off as a slight jerk.

It's amusing that Rock tried to sell himself as coming from a hick town. He was from freaking Winnetka and went to New Trier High School which is one of the best high schools in Illinois. It's funny how much these studios would get away with back in the day.

But were Winnetka and that high school really all that much in the early 1940s when Rock was there? I don't know, I'm just asking.

R473, yes, New Trier was a big deal even then. It was the first American high school with an indoor swimming pool. Winnetka has had many famous architects build several of its buildings.

I don't know if Rock's back story is real or not, but even in wealthy towns there are have nots.

Roy was The Big Noise From Winnetka!

R475, he said that he was a hick from a hick town. My guess is that the studio told him to play that up to promote a "rags to riches" backstory.

Rock Hudson may have been publicly and professionally in the closet, but he did not seem tormented by it, ever. The bars and clubs, pool parties, plenty of tricks and lovers, are all evident. He was more tormented by having to get married, frankly (and many of us would feel the same way).

It was called an open secret, but it seems pretty open, to me.

R478, that's very impressive for a man who came of age at a time when being gay was much more taboo than now.

I have seen it said that at the sneak preview of "Seconds" the audience booed when Rock's name came up on the screen.

I’m just taken by the fact that he was so friendly and generous to his family and friends…

From The Times... they're just rolling out overseas, looks like:

It’s an audio recording from 1974 of a Hudson acquaintance and low-level Tinseltown player arranging the delivery to the star’s home of a young studio employee, solely for the purpose of sex. “He works at Paramount and he works out,” the fixer says, adding: “He’s just a damn fine boy.” Hudson, casual as can be, as if ordering a pizza, then asks: “How’s the equipment?” The fixer, also casual but serious, replies: “The equipment is about nine inches, I guess. And he’s very good in that department.” Hudson seems pleased by this and the call ends with politeness and an affirmation that the damn fine boy can be readied for consumption.

The call, innocuous yet scandalous, has a bombshell quality to it. Hollywood whistleblowers have for ever claimed that the movie business is a seedy world of sexual decadence and untrammelled egomania, yet powerful industry myth-making has been so effective that most accounts of even mildly aberrant sexual behaviour are greeted with scepticism and disbelief — it’s partially why abuses go unchecked for so long. Hudson is a perfect illustration of this strange doublethink. The classic screen actor, although closeted in his lifetime, was famed for his reported carnal appetites and being, as he is described in the documentary, “a sexual gladiator”. Yet the weight of his wholesome screen work and matinee idol status is so profound that these allegations never fully made sense. Until this tape.

“Oh God, what a find,” Stephen Kijak, the film’s director, says from his home in Los Angeles. “If you really do your research there’s so much more to learn about Rock and his sex life, so this shouldn’t come as a shock. And yet it kind of does in a weird way. And it’s not the only one. There were a couple of other recorded calls about a couple of different chaps, but we went, in the end, with Mister Nine Inches at Paramount. And what does it say? People had sex. Gay men had sex. And rich gay men procured younger attractive gay men. That was the world they lived in. It’s not a surprise but, yes, it also rips the lid off.”

The phone tapes, in this context, are vital for illuminating the immensity of the gap between Hudson’s swoon-worthy screen persona — the soft-spoken fantasy husband for women everywhere — and the reality of a voracious, pleasure-loving man who regularly hosted raunchy pool parties at his hacienda-style home, the Castle. Kijak explains that the tapes were a “last-minute” find, uncovered at the UCLA library archive in California among the personal effects of, “a guy, a gay man, who had done some acting and producing. And normally you go to these university libraries and you search the name ‘Rock Hudson’ and you go through all the listings and you’ll get, say, an autographed picture of Rock Hudson and that’s it. But with this listing there was a box of cassettes that nobody had bothered listening to and that I thought might be a lost interview. But when I listened to it I immediately knew, of course, that it wasn’t an interview. It was, instead, a marvellous little piece of history.”

More importantly, why does he think the phone call was recorded? “Probably because we were in a world of blackmail back then, and he planned to cash in at some future point.”

His diagnosis with Aids, in 1984, is also tackled, as is the incident the next year, just before his death, when he was desperate to return home from a treatment centre in Paris, but all the airlines refused to fly him because of his illness. He was forced to hire an Air France 747 at a cost of $250,000. “That was kind of shocking,” Kijak says. “He wanted to die at home, but nobody would fly him. The US president Ronald Reagan, his friend, wouldn’t help him. There was certainly no military assistance to get home. Nobody wanted anything to do with Aids. Not even Rock Hudson with Aids. He was left to fend for himself and anyone of lesser means would have died in France.”

During all this personal drama Hudson’s denial of his sexuality is remarkable, and indeed the contemporary viewer might be forgiven for finding him a baffling and inscrutable character who simply refuses, even on the point of his death, to acknowledge his true self. “The closet was so nailed shut for him, and guys like him, that he was comfortable with it,” Kijak says. “He’s white, he’s rich, he’s famous. There is literally no benefit to coming out. It’s not even an option. It’s not a question of, ‘What are the stakes?’ It’s, ‘What’s the point?’”

Finally watching this. God, he was the perfect man - at least to me. Just so effortlessly sexy.