SUCCESSION, Season 4, Thread 5

My favorite part of last night’s ep was Kerry’s brother’s lookalike hair.

R1 YES! Kerry’s Brother’s hair!! It could be a spin-off - Kerry & her brother - their teen aged years ……. Please forgive me if I missed this - do we know yet why Greg and Tom are “The Disgusting Brothers?”

What about him (Nate)? Shiv’s fling. Yum. I’m in.

Yes? No? Maybe?

Nate is perfect DC husband material and has heavenly eyes *swoon*

I am so in love with Tom. So so so so in love with Tom. God I would that man 100 babies, my entire bank account and my soul.

Tom’s dialogue delivery is perfection. In his voice, you clearly hear his love for Shiv, but also his desperate search for meaning in the shadow of the Roys, anxiety over Logan’s death, greed, silliness…all in there at once. Really good voice in general.

That’s RADA training for ya.

R6 He has a soft, patient voice which goes deep for an instant when he's trying to keep his emotions at bay. The way he handled the phone call during Logan's death and was there for Shiv after the press conference? Ok, I will stop fangirling, all I know is I want him happy, or on the path to happiness at the end of the finale

Prepare yourself for disappointment. I see an either/or situation for Tom. Either he gets the job (keeps his position or possible promotion) or the girl (shiv and baby) but not both. He’ll never be happy.

He does have a sexy voice when it gets low.

Well I go hot and cold with Tom/Shiv...at times I want them together, at other times I think in the end he just needs to split, and that he'd be happier eventually without her. Like I said, happy or on the path to it. So who knows, them splitting could not be a bad thing.

Nobody here gets out happy. You're lucky if you get out alive.

R7, would you be so kind as to elaborate? I’ve asked the question many times, how is the training there different? All I know is I loooooove so many actors of the RADA but I’m not trained in theater at all, so I would love to understand what their classical training looks like and how it compares exactly to Method. TIA!

Lol I don’t know! I just imagine they get a ton of elocution and diction lessons to get that great clear speech. He really enunciates his words.

Marcia has finally arrived, as predicted. “Church and State” lined up the dominoes perfectly.

Everyone was thinking Marcia was going to come back and stick the knife in and show her "true colors."

Turns out, her true colors are that she's actually a good person.

Surprise!

I think she’s the smart one. She just wants to get the money and then enjoy it. World travel and shopping here she comes!

I thought it was very kind of Marcia to put her hand on Kerry's hand and offer that comfort. Like saying "Honey, it's all good. We were all playing the game, and being played. No one is angry at you. You're good, kid. You're one of us."

It was sweet but very uncharacteristic for this show. Like, incredibly so. I also thought it was a little strange how supportive and caring she was to the kids and what she said to Shiv about Logan breaking their hearts too because while she was with him she was strictly Team Logan and basically just looked the other way when he berated and abused them. I suspect a bit of a shift in how they decided to write for her.

The longer a show is on, the more likely it is to devolve into schmaltz.

That was the scene with the wives and the whores.

Shiv is as big as a house. Is the actress pregnant?

Yes. She was like 6 months pregnant at the end of filming.

Probably had the kid by now.

Arrested Succession narrated by Ron Howard

Finally made it through the episode. Had to turn it off 37 minutes in when Roman became a total beta male simp cuck sissyboy by breaking down and bawling in public. Ugh, hated that. If Culkin doesn't win the Emmy it's because of that shoehorned, transparent, so "decided" by the writer's moment. Yes, yes I understand why they did that, I just disagree and would've pushed back in the writer's room.

I know a lot of people will defend that moment for various reasons, but I will never like showy, public displays of emotion. It's more powerful to see someone breakdown in private and then have to pull it together or in front of one other person who they shouldn't be crying in front of. To do it in front of a group is histrionic, low hanging fruit and sends the message to the public that such behavior of pulling focus is acceptable because they saw it in a tv show or film. Enter drunk white girls at a party.

Rich people already think the world revolves around them. The last thing we need is this overdramatic background nonsense that exists to provide externalized, showy smoke and mirrors drama, tension, and stakes even though we know none of the main characters will be touched by it. I'm talking about the riots & protests. Yes, I understand why they included it, but we know it won't amount to anything significant, so it just feels like a cheap ploy to put the d for dumb into the d for drama.

The three funeral speeches were the best thing about the episode. A lot of filler this season. An hour is too much time for this season's weaker writing.

I hated seeing the stupid riots. Why won’t everybody just relax.

i feel like we've seen the last of Marcia but maybe she got a board seat. Doubt it. I agree, the writing this season is erratic in quality and generally weaker.

I watched the four women scene and I think Marcia said it Kerry, as she took her hand, "It's OK. It's OK."

I loved the brevity but finality and clarity of how they resolved Marcia: “I love him very much, I miss him very much. He broke my heart, and he broke your hearts too.”

^

I wasn’t nuts about Roman's public breakdown either, but I think the whole point of it was that little scene of Frank and Karl watching the already viral video of it and laughing. Roman's out. And (as mentioned in the last thread) what killed him was the one moment of honest emotion he ever displayed.

Roman has been headed for a mental breakdown (or worse) all season.

I felt bad for Shiv. Not one person treated her pregnancy as good news. That must feel very lonely. She’s probably starting to look at the baby as a way of finally having a loving relationship with someone. I hope it works out that way for her.

Tom is a snake but he’s our snake.

It was indeed his most honest emotional moment. However, this is the guy who mocked everyone else whenever they showed any emotion. We have a conservative crippled by a bleeding heart, a liberal eager to sell her soul, and a capitalist who can’t close a deal.

The actor playing Roman was awful during the breakdown scene. It was laughable.

Yeah I think the Roman breakdown was also a way to cut him out of the race.

I still think the Marcia/Kerry exchange did not feel genuine to the show. It would have been enough if Marcia and Caroline asked her to sit with them. Still a kind, gracefull offer without the random shmalzyness.

I dont want either of the Roys to win. Or Maddson. That's all I know.

The best speech was Ewan's. It's was absolutely one of the most beautifully scripted moments on tv I remember. It humanized Logan beautifully without it becoming an apologia for him, and James Cromwell's understated performance fit it to a tee.

"“I loved him, I suppose, and I suppose some of you did too, in whatever way he would let us and we could manage. But I can’t help but say he has wrought some of the most terrible things. He was a man who has here and there drawn in the edges of the world. Now and then darkened the skies a little. Closed men’s hearts. Fed that dark flame in men, the hard mean hard-relenting flame that keeps their heart warm while another grows cold. Their grain stashed while another goes hungry.

“And even has the temerity to tell that hard but funny joke about the man in the cold. You can get a little high, a little mighty when you’re warm. Oh yes, he gave away a few million of his billions but he was not a generous man. He was mean, and he made but a mean estimation of the world and he fed a certain kind of meagreness in men. Perhaps he had to because he had a meagreness about him and maybe I do about me too, I don’t know. I try. I try. I don’t know when but sometime he decided not to try anymore and it was a terrible shame. Godspeed my brother. And God bless.”

People go a bit mad at funerals. Roman definitely lost his shit and Ken turned into a demonic force. Shiv is probably hormonal and knows that the fight ahead for her to get what she wants won't be any easier with a baby growing inside. I can see why Kerry was weepy, she had to fuck and blow old Logan and now she walks away with nothing but PTSD. The other exes got fat bank accounts and easy lives and access to the best trauma management.

R33 That's because it was written and delivered as a grand, dramatic monologue mashup between Angels in America (2003, Tony Kushner), The Hours (2002, Michael Cunningham), and Dame Judi Dench's Parliament monologue from Skyfall (2012, John Logan).

In short, the funeral speeches were gay and therefore fabulous.

Interesting that many on here thought Marcia putting her hand on Kerry's hand was shmaltzy. I had the opposite reaction. She was pressured into sitting there by Lady Caroline, and I don't think it was all a heartfelt thing on Marcia's part. Maybe a little, but it was also for show, a f*ck you to Lady C, too.

R36 I didn't think it was schmaltzy. It was classy. She's earthy. I liked it.

I didn't think Roman suddenly bursting into tears was, either. He is so in denial and disconnected from himself, it made perfect sense that he had fantasies of rocking the stage and then lost his shit when it was showtime. The only thing that rang a little false in the writing, for me, was "Is dad in there? Get him out!!" Like, I get it was to show him having a true breakdown and finding it hard to believe beloved father is dead, and not alive trapped inside that coffin. But saying "get him out!!" I dunno, that felt a bit off.

The crying though, I mean c'mon. Everyone knew his "pre-grieve" wasn't going to hold.

R35 Funny you mention AiA, that was the 1st thing I thought of, the eulogy that opens the play. It really had that level of beauty.

The speeches were almost too good lol...especially Ken's considering he was supposed to make that up on the sly lol

R38 Exactly. The polished speeches were a stark contrast to the sloppy dialogue the show loves to lean on. It was an Emmy moment for the actors and writers. Inspired and cobbled together from other stronger works written by gay men. Roman's inability to monologue may cost him the Emmy (we'll see).

Also, as soon as the episode opened with Roman practicing and feeling confident, we knew it was never going to happen just like this "good" GoJo deal. The writers haven't delivered anything that I couldn't already see from a mile away. It's all very film school screenwriting fundamentals.

[QUOTE] Roman's inability to monologue may cost him the Emmy (we'll see).

But we basically did see him deliver it. And he got a bonus breakdown scene that was almost choreographed for Emmy consideration. Your comment doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Any viewer who was watching the episode critically knew that because we already saw Roman “deliver” the monologue (even just an abridged version) in his condo meant that we weren’t going to be seeing it again later in the episode.

I’m a writer so maybe that’s why I knew.

I loved Roman’s apartment.

People think the Culkin brat is a good actor?

Wow.

R40 The breakdown was cringe and pathetic. You never go full cry. The writing is too transparent to be considered good. You can see all of their decisions coming.

R41 That view was insane. Billionaire, indeed.

R42 He's not bad for the show, but none of the Culkins have really stretched themselves and seem to do better in comedy and horror than straight drama. He should stick to bitchy, dark comedy. The crying was not a good look, but that's the fault of the writers not him.

[QUOTE] The breakdown was cringe and pathetic. You never go full cry. The writing is too transparent to be considered good. You can see all of their decisions coming.

Possibly. But all that really matters is what Emmy voters think. Not DL.

And I was quibbling with the notion that because we didn’t see him deliver the speech literally at the funeral, he was at a deficit for Emmy consideration. It’s a statement that still makes no sense.

I thought Culkin was good but overrated the way some went on.

I like the writing of the show very well, myself but I am scared they are going to do some rehashed Michael Corleone ending with Kendall winning the CEO position but losing everything he loves. "It's lonely at the top" or what not. Now THAT would be film school-y and amateur. And honestly the Kendall fan boys stanning for this ending are starting to annoy me.

I predict Tom will buy Don Draper's apartment and then jump off the balcony!

Is his own apartment not high enough off the ground to ensure death? It looked pretty high.

He won’t kill himself even if he loses everything next week. But I think things are looking good for tom!

R43 you are criticising the writing and yet you use “cringe” as an adjective? It’s a verb.

Here is how this reminds me of how things felt toward the end of the Sopranos….I remember people being divided and arguing over if the last season was as strong, and of course, huge fighting on finale, tons of debating. I think over time, Sopranos has aged as having ended on a strong note with good writing. So this Succession in last season gives me deja vu, though I have a feeling this last season will age well. Hope I’m wrong because the casting is so strong, it was an incredible ensemble, no matter what. I’m just not sure the writing is carrying the fourth season as it should be. When I think back to season one, I guess I expected the death of Logan, but I also feel like we aren’t coming full circle. It does not feel like there is any epiphany, surprises about a character, tying up loose ends (Logan died already). Sure, they are fighting over the succession team and about selling Waystar/Royco/ATN. But again, where is the Pierce family????

I think the only way this show would make me feel like it came full circle is if it ends in the boardroom with NONE of the kids staying and maybe Stevie gets one final insult, or if Logan’s brother took over or maybe Marcia, OR if Kendall is in water, dead this time. Almost every storyline this season never reached a complete arc that satisfied me. It feels like they jammed two seasons into one, and yet half the time, it was still filler-ish. Also, and I cannot believe I’m saying this, but Lukas was still vastly underused — was he at the funeral? It would have been great for him to cause shit at the funeral.

Don’t stay up so late tonight kids!!!

The finale will be a Wills Trusts & Estates version of the Moldavian Massacre.

I see a boardroom scene variation on the helicopter-hit mass killing in "The Godfather, III".

Seriously, I think at least one of the 4 children, or Tom, will be dead.

All we know from the episode 10 preview is that at some point Matsson cries out in frustration, seemingly. That concerns me. I really want the GoJo deal to go through, and I want Greg to be ensconced as a puppet CEO. I want everyone else to go fuck off with their billions.

Let's be real, no one needs to work another day in their life. If they lose their minds and kill themselves, it's not gonna be because they are broke.

Greg is the only one that has achieved his position and made his money purely through effort and persistence. He deserves to be on top at the end. He may not be qualified, but he deserves it.

Greg is the new Logan.

Nan Pierce bursts into the boardroom and blasts everyone with a vintage Uzi.

The End

I am curious if they'll bring the Pierce deal back in--I don't see how they can't.

They have 90 mines to tie up every loose end, resolve everyone's arcs, and crown the successor.

People worry too much about finales. Yes, they should provide some kind of answers to broader questions, provide some kind of conclusion to character arcs, etc, but unless they show each character in the future and how they died (like 6 Feet Under), you really will never know what happened to these people after the final episode airs. So what if Kendall becomes the new CEO? In real life that might only last 6 months until something else happens. So what if characters A&B end up together? They could be divorced a year from now

R56 True, but there are implied ongoing problems that beg for resolutions. Some kind of closure on this voyeuristic chapter of our lives. A grand finale with fireworks.

R55 but they won’t. We won’t get concrete answers unless everyone dies.

R51 yeah, and Greg will be the one to slip out of the room at the last minute, because he’s in on it. The sneaky slimeball.

R56 definitely true. Like if Tom and shiv are cool at the end of the finale, in a week they could have another blowout fight and not be speaking again. We’ll never know. We’re getting off the train before the last station here.

The Six Feet Under finale is unbeatable.

Greg becoming puppet CEO seems too goofy. I think Mattson is going to install Tom.

R60 Why? He's only shown consistent contempt for Tom.

Oh, now cranky Cox is saying they killed Logan off too soon? Shut the fuck up, man, your schtick is boring.

R61 on this show loyalty and liking someone turns on a dime PLUS Mattson did seem thoughtful when he heard Tom stayed atwork instead of going to the funeral. You know, like Logan had wanted Kendall to do but he didn't?

r61 - True. But, Mattson's questioned Shiv's lack of leadership experience more than once. Perhaps he's bought into her idea of installing an American CEO, but doesn't believe she's the right one for the role. Tom has that experience, but he's also someone who would easily bend to Mattson's will. Just a theory. Could be way off.

[quote]Greg is the new Logan.

LOL! Yeah, like they're gonna have Deputy Droop-A-Long be in charge.

Not in charge R65. Puppet.

I cannot see a board voting for Greg, which is what would be necessary if Matsson appointed him CEO for it to stick. Everyone at Waystar-Royco knows he's an idiot, and it would require a majority of the votes of the major shareholders, which includes the three younger Roy children, Marcia, Ewan, and the old guys working for the company (like Frank and Karl).

The idea of Greg being the CEO is dumb and ridiculous. Ending it like that would make the show a laughing stock and not in the good way. Personally I feel none of the Roy's get it, maybe Tom but definitely not the Roys. Too predictable.

I agree that it's unlikely any of the children will be left ruined/penniless at the end of the finale.

Tom becoming CEO is a very unfulfilling climax. How about NONE OF THEM?

Hypothetical odds from DraftKings

From what I hear, Kendall sells his soul to everyone to finally run the company. He gets everything he wants. Walks out in the sunshine, just as a nuclear war occurs, destroying the earth and everyone on it. The end.

R71 That's crazy, I definitely think Tom has more of a chance than Connor or Roman. Connor basically took himself out of the running during his failed speech and Connor has zero experience and is considered the loser of the bunch. For me, from most likely to least likely. 1-No one from the Roy family gets it 2-Tom 3-Kendall 4-Shiv 5-Marcia 6-Connor 7-Roy

Sorry are you doing spoilers here in teh 11th hour, R72?

Fuck off!

Meant Roman, not Roy. I think even Connor and Greg have a better chance than him. They are doofuses that would at least make good puppets...Roman though? He pretty much has mental issues, is not controllable and is unstable and unreliable.

R74 - um, I think R72 was joking? You actually think THAT is how Succession would end? Have you... seen the show?

R76 Of course I have lol I assumed he was listening to a podcast or something. I'm hypervigilant against that kind of soft spoiling these dat. Because it happens a lot.

*days

R77 ... So you legitimately thought Succession would end with nuclear war breaking out? Okay.

No dumbass. R79 I thought that part was metaphorical. Like, just there's chaos everywhere and Kendall is immune to it. A dead-hearted "killer" now. Nero playing the violin while Rome burns. Etc.

Don't you have more important things to do right now than pick at this verbal scab?

I don’t doubt for a second that Kendall wouldn’t give up all his good personal relationships to be ceo. He really wants to ‘win’.

To show everyone that he was an underline, not a cross out!

It sure as shit didn't say shit, Shiv!

[quote]To show everyone that he was an underline, not a cross out!

Exactly, R81!

And to scratch that eternal itch in his own tortured brain, even though he's always going to be wresting with and fighting against the deep ultimate awareness that it was a cross out.

But yeah, it sure as shit didn't say Shiv.

The final shot will be Romulus in the woods, chopping down trees , dressed like a stereotypical lumberjack.

The final shot will be Shiv in labor, with Tom over her telling her to PUSHHHH, SHIV. PUSHHH! Shiv grabs hold of the tip of Tom's dangling tie and uses it to wipe her brow. Then she tells him to shut the fuck up as she groans into one final huge push.

As the camera pans back we see she's giving birth on the boardroom table in the C-Suite. Matsson is holding the cord-cutting scissors. As the newborn baby takes its first breath and begins to mewl, the board stands up and starts clapping wildly.

The new CEO of Waystar Royco is born.

R84 with his snowmobiles and sushi in the background.

I do have to say I Looooooooooove all the Gaelic/Celtic names of the Roys. Kendall, Shiobhan, Roman, Connor......gorgeous, especially Kendall..

I’ve known three Kendalls in my life and they were all girls. I kind of like it for a guy. Ken is a good nickname.

R72: “a nuclear war occurs ….. The end.”

David Rasche already did that at the end of the first season of Sledgehammer. Doing so again now would just be derivative.

The Successor/American CEO will be Tom. I can feel it in me waters.

But whyyyyy R90? Why? Walk me through it.

He’s dealt with all the Roy shit- from Logan, Kendall, shiv, Roman, and Cyd, Gerri, Karl, etc, I saw why not! Let him be top dog.

Could it be that it just doesn’t matter who ends up on the iron throne? It’s the journey that’s interesting.

No. The end is just as interesting.

^Unless it’s Bran Stark on the throne

I think there'll be a load of turmoil and tumbling stock prices and it'll cut to black with no obvious successor named.

Just as negotiations break down because the children cannot afford the sale, Sally Anne will walk in to the boardroom (all filmed in extreme soft focus), and fling her diamond earrings (a gift long ago from Logan) onto the negotiation table. "Not so fast, Matsson," she'll say, "THESE have always brought me luck!"

Then she'll be named CEO, the sale will go through, and everyone will be happy. The End.

r86, we've already been explicitly promised there will be no ambiguous cut to black by the showrunner Jess Armstrong. We will get some kind of resolution, he said.

Don’t stop believin’ R96

You know how they say in screenwriting, "Show don't tell"? Succession is brilliant with this.

Kendall is threatening Reva as she's trying to get the kids the hell out of dodge the day after the election. He's yelling, saying he's gonna block the vehicle. He's gonna lie down in front of the car so that they can't leave. Grrrr!!!!!

Does he actually lie down? Hell no. He stands there limply, like a deer in the headlights, while her car pulls easily out of the parking spot, passes by his impotent ass and glides off into the sunset.

He's all bark and no bite. He's a fraud.

R92 I am team Tom as well. 1-he's the only one that does any actual fucking work

2-he was at Logan's bedside when he died (in many ways, the son he never had) and he handled his death like as pro

3-he sacrificed going to the funeral to stay working, as has been said, like Logan wanted Kendall to do for his birthday

4-Proved he could be cunning and be a killer (that is, betray a loved one for the company)

5-he was willing to go to jail for the company and learn and keep its darkest secrets

6-though he seems to have come from a comfortably upper middle class family, he definitely didnt come from money like the Roys, which Logan always resented his kids for, and every promotion he had since he started is because he earned it (I am pretty sure he was already working for ATN when he met Shiv)

7-I mean, he knocked up Logan's daughter, a baby that will also one day be heir

8-He is the one person I can see maintaining the job without self destructing

I'm not even sure I want him to get it, not if it spells unhappiness and doom, but to me he is the absolute most deserving.

Great points R101.

You brought me back to one of the previous episodes this season in which there was the question of whether Logan had crossed off or underlined Kendall’s name. Now, I’m thinking he did and in a more recent doc, Logan named Tom as his successor.

[quote] and every promotion he had since he started is because he earned it (I am pretty sure he was already working for ATN when he met Shiv)

He was working for Waystar-Royco when he met Shiv, not ATN--he was in the cruises division (which is why he almost took the fall and went to prison for the cruises scandal). He was only transferred to ATN after their marriage, and he did not "earn" the new position because of good business decisions, only because he was willing to be Logan's complete lickspittle.

If you think he's genuinely good at his current job, you're either not paying attention to the show or you yourself are a horrible person like he is.

Unlike the Roy kids, Tom is a serious person.

R104 lol I see what you did there

I don't think he has the talent for the job, but R101 makes a strong case for Tom.

R103, you're right that he was promoted after the wedding but I think he at least learned half of that by knowing and keeping the Cruises Scandal. I am not so sure he woudld have been promoted if he didnt have that little nugget of information and show Logan he could be trusted. Tom knew what he was doing , I'm telling you.

And I see nothing wrong with how he's doing his job (other than ot being a corrupt right wing network, but that's how Logan wanted it).

Tom earned his promotion to ATN chairman the old fashioned way- on his back!

Saw this and thought of DL

"We're Logan's friends, advisors and WHORES"

I think Mattson will shiv Shiv and anoint Tom because it will piss her off the most. He’s a sick misogynist puppy.

Logan died alone on the toilet, disconnected from anyone he “loved,” and miserable. Whoever succeeds will have a similar fate. It’s the point of the series. Lots of money and nothing but a savanna of emptiness.

My boy tom coming to take it all!

I hear you, R111

R113 he’s going to deliver the final kill list. Everyone gone except Gerri, Karolina, and himself.

And Greg, obviously.

Everyone needs to watch this

R113 isn't there a similar shot of Shiv in the promo too? I don't give a fuck how corny it , if it ends with ShivTom battling it out in the boardroom only to realize they are still madly in love with each other and then have them run away to a pigfarm, I wouldn't hate it.

There is. But, this is just my feeling, I think Tom’s little walk to the board meeting is going to end better for him than Shiv’s will for her.

Nah, she was never madly in love with him. She won’t go the the trailer park/pig farm for him. She may allow him to be a part of their kid’s life, maybe not. All depends on how things shake out.

I think they are an awful couple and should divorce, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if they stay together. Just for optics and shit.

I think the point of the show is more than Tom and his dick

Unfortunately. I want to see that red sequoia!

R119 I see it kind of different. I think they do love each other, at least the best way two highly dysfunctional (especially Shiv) narcisists can love each other.

And actually, I was watching the scene of Tom/Shiv cackling at the idea of them running away to a trailer park and it struck me that they both laughed a little too high and too hard and for a little too long to be sincere.....it's almost like the subtext was saying they maybe could see themselves doing it...but they sure as fuck wouldnt let the other know it.

R120 I mean obviously but Jess Armstrong himself said the show was about the Shiv/Tom marriage, so I think it bears discussion.

R122 You're smart. Keep talking.

Can’t wait!

I know you bitches can find a leaked version.

R126 they didnt even leak the finale to the critics, so good luck with that.

How’s your excitement level to watch the finale tonight? I’m ready. It’s time to put this show to bed and see who gets screwed the most.

My bowel movement was fine this morning. On standby…

Tom has the same rare last name (spelled differently) as the only player in baseball history to score an unassisted triple play (three players out) in the World Series. Coincidence?

It can be argued that he did the triple play in last season’s finale. He got Kendall, Roman, and Shiv ‘out’ by telling Logan their plan.

I suppose he could do it again, but it wouldn’t be unassisted. He’d need Matsson and maybe Mencken’s help.

I do think he has the best chance to come out on top. But I wouldn’t rule out Kendall.

I'm going to miss it. I'd feel better if The White Lotus Season 3 was taking it's time slot. Oh well, can't have everything.

R130. Rose, get thee to a nunnery.

Of course Jesse A. chose that surname.

I won’t be able to watch it live, so someone please come here at 10:30pm est and tell me who becomes ceo or whatever.

Thanks in advance, friends!

Kendall wins.

Maybe Shiv will lose the baby.

Here’s the episode synopsis on IMBD:

Ahead of the final board meeting on the Waystar-Gojo Deal, Kendall and Shiv try to shore up their opposing interests...and get a fix on the whereabouts of a physically and emotionally bruised Roman.

It’s too bad they fell into the one-day-per-episode trap. Not realistic for things to reach a resolution the day after Logan’s funeral with the takeover looming.

In a world where a tweet-driven bank run can wipe out a financial institution in 24 hours, the day-by-day scenario is plausible.

In this case, though, it’s not well-written.

That has been pointed out multiple times over the past several years on these threads.

It’s got to be Ken!

My final prediction.

Tom has really nice eyelashes. Very thick and fluffy.

Too bad he always looks two seconds away from crying.

The tension among the siblings is hard to take.

"Cunt is as cunt does."

SHTART Shhrepding the news... (major spoiler)

Jeremy Strong has a great body in that nearly see-through linen white shirt.

Yeah, Kendall could get it.

Kendall in the swimming scene! He has great tits.

Sooo. Anything important happen yet?

🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼 🧼

What does that mean? ^

That was incredible!

Agree R153!

I enjoyed the three sibs together at Caroline's having fun. That was my favorite part.

Well, that’s a wrap. I was hoping Greg would be left in ruins and Kendall would kill himself, but overall this was a satisfying conclusion.

So Tom did get CEO?

I figured he would.

I believe from the example of “Clue” that there are probably 2 other equally implausible endings that have been filmed.

Hope to see them on the Max app!

That was not bad.

R152, that’s Kendall and Roman going full Dynasty and rolling around on an office floor in an old fashioned cat fight!

Not even a fight. No kicking or biting.

Why did Shiv change her mind? I really don't get it.

Yes, R157, Lukas considers other options behind Chiv’s back and settles on Tom.

Shiv wanted to be done with it.

R156, when Kendall walked towards the water I got anxious, fearing he would jump. I love that Colin was following Kendall, being his protector, likely from himself.

Did anyone else notice that Kendall hugged Roman only to worsen his wound and make Roman look even weaker? Kendall is a psychopath.

Shiv likely planned to defect the entire time. She is thinking about her family, her child.

Shiv and Tom may be having a child together but they'll never really get along.

I felt rather affectionate toward Roman especially when he said it doesn't matter. He finally got it.

[quote]I love that Colin was following Kendall, being his protector, likely from himself.

I took the last scene to mean that Kendall's guilt over the killing will always be with him, since Colin was the one who cleaned it up. It's something he will never shake.

They’ll divorce at some point. CEO Tom can get a new woman who actually likes him.

What was it that Roman said to Kendall in the empty room at the end that caused Kendall to lose it and start attacking him? Something to do with Rava, but I didn't quite catch it.

So Stewy and Kendall definitely hooked up at some point. That’s what I got from this.

Roman's repeated "I'm nothing, you're nothing" was so fitting for him, since throughout he has been the nihilist.

The weird thing is that all three of the siblings are probably richer now than they've ever been, since they would have made a fortune off the sale.

He was talking about the parentage of the children.

Emmy for worst character's hair goes to Willa! Yes, worse than Kerry's.

[quote] Why did Shiv change her mind? I really don't get it.

She could not get over her resentment that her brother would be promoted over her. He never believed in her, and she knew it.

Their resentments were in the end too strong for them to band together and win. She'd rather be with Tom as the winner, since she knows she can manipulate him.

R170:

It was finally revealed (at least to me) that Iverson was Rava’s son from another marriage, and the daughter was conceived through an affair with another man. Roman called Shiv “the bloodline,” which set Kendall off.

I'm sure you're right, r175, but it was just so manipulatively melodramatic for her to not come to terms with her feelings until the voting.

Willa’s hair looks like an early 00’s stripper’s. Those extensions just seem so anachronistic on a show that took place in 2023.

I felt compassion for Sarah Snook having to wear that tank top exposing much of her very pregnant tits while at Caroline's. She must of thought fighting it wouldn't be worth it since the show was ending and felt fortunate for having had that job.

My TV cut out at the end—did Tony die?

R177 I don't think it was just resentment Shiv did have some principles, albeit feeble and fading, and pregnancy probably made them resurface.

WOW.

WOW.

The MVP of this show was Hope Davis. She didn’t do shit and she still collected far paychecks.

Congratulations Shiv. You’re well on your way to becoming your mother.

I loved watching Tom and Greg have their little hiss hiss catfight in the bathroom. But honestly I think Tom should have kicked Greg to the curb. Greg truly, TRULY is a piece of shit.

Although I guess if Tom is Logan 2.0 then maybe that makes Greg a Tom 2.0. Tom sort of did start out like a Greg.

Ah, the circle of life.

Yes, we had 2 quite nice, claws-out fights

Was Nan Pierce mentioned? That whole thing?

Kendall's daughter is adopted r176. That has always been visually obvious since the girl is a different race from Kendall and Rava.

What we learned tonight is the implication that his son was actually fathered by a different man? Rava was cheating on him?

[quote]Greg truly, TRULY is a piece of shit.

They are all pieces of shit.

R185 what did Greg do to Tom and how did their storyline resolve? Bathroom bjs?

I really want Caroline's place.

Excellent ending. I have no complaints. Let the frosty reign of Tom and Shiv reign. Roman is free and Kendall has to live with himself.

R191, you didn’t catch the part about all the plumbing issues?

It will be interesting to see how Snook, Culkin and Strong's careers progress from this.

The only flaw is the Pierce deal,was never mentioned. The sibs have the money now to own their own media company but I assume that will never happen. They hate each other too much to ever work together.

Caroline's kitchen desperately needs a reno.

Why did Shiv side with a yes man? It's not like Tom owns the company.

Really great to finally know the ending and then work backwards and see how we got here.

Go Tom!

R168, I see your point: Colin is Kendall’s albatross that will never leave him.

It's not that she is siding WITH Tom, R197. She took a stand AGAINST Kendall.

I predicted it'd be Tom back at r2 in the first thread! I win!

When Tom put the sticker on Greg's head I fucking cheered the writers.

I told you bitches in one of the previous threads it will be Tom.

R201 LoL Does it feel satisfying?

She now has no ownership and is married to a man who hates her.

The acting was incredible. Shiv, Roman, Ken acted so beautifully by incredible actors. EVERYONE in Succession needs to get an Emmy. I always thought it would be Tom because of Season 3.

Watch the episode explained after the credits.

But she's loaded.

And it was the last remaining way that Shiv could exert power and influence over her brothers.

Shiv just didn’t want her brothers to get it. That was her only motivation.

I will miss the characters and the actors who played them.

Why would Mattsen want Tom as CEO? Tim called Mencken which drove Mattsen into a rage.

Yes. I absolutely would have done what Shiv did.

They’re ALL assholes! Her and Roman knew that!!!!!! BRAVA

r178, she's a tacky former escort who wants to put in cowhide sofas into Logan's Fifth Avenue townhouse.

Tom is an order-taker and corporate survivor who will do what he's told. That's why Matsson picked him.

Tom is gonna run off with Carolina

[quote] She now has no ownership and is married to a man who hates her.

She would never have had ownership anyway. Kendall sold her down the river two episodes ago in his meeting with Frank.

Tom does not hate Shiv. he will always be in love with her because she has the one thing he most wants which he will never have: she was born to great wealth.

I loved that Carolina, who all four seasons had been the character who seemed the classiest and most professional of the big WR employees, tried to get Hugo fired right before the board meeting just after decrying backstabbing to Shiv.

[quote]Why would Mattsen want Tom as CEO?

Two words: pain sponge

Is Kendall gonna off himself?

[quote] I told you bitches in one of the previous threads it will be Tom.

Oh, if only everyone had listened to you, Anonymous.

So with Tom as CEO and Shiv as his wife, and Greg floating around in there somewhere, in a way the Roys still have some pull at WayGoStarJo

Dreamy

I disliked Tom more and more as the series progressed. However, Matthew MacFadyen played him brilliantly.

R213 Tom’s a sexy sycophant! Lukas’ favorite.

I loved Tom's monologue at the bar, when Matsson asked Tom who he really is, and Tom got real and said basically he just worries 24/7 and it's killing him.

It got him the gig!

All the siblings ended up unhappy and hating each other. There really was no other way it could end. Kudos. And. Loved we have that scene of them in the kitchen before it all fell to shit.

It makes sense Mattson wants someone like Tom. He doesn't want someone that will challenge him. Tom will be his dutiful puppet.

That scene of Tom and Shiv in the car looking emotionally dead inside was just a great ending for them. Shiv really is becoming her mother, her worst fear realized.

I really hope Shiv loses the baby weight and gets a spin-off of her own.

But what will become of Gerri??

It strained credulity that cute hot Lukas wants to fuck super chunky preggo Shiv.

But then again, he sends frozen blocks of blood to Ebba.

Never got the fawning over drab Jerri

A spin-off with Tom, Shiv, Greg, Karolina and Mattson would be kind of great

Kendall's best moment - "It could have been you." to Roman. For once, I wasn't hating on him.

Tom and Greg are lovers

R224 I could’ve sworn it was in Norway when he reminded Lukas about how they made fun of the creases in some guy’s shorts. That was a real bonding moment for them and totally impressed Matsson 😂

Tom’s such a goober.

Roman was hot for Geri but that was never going to work out. He needed someone to love.

[quote]The weird thing is that all three of the siblings are probably richer now than they've ever been, since they would have made a fortune off the sale

That's the best part. The siblings are making billions off this sale and they don't even mention it or care. Most people would be ecstatic at the windfall but they are mired in depression because they are so obsessed with living up to their Father's legacy. And they are so accustomed to being rich that money is just unable to make them happy.

MacFadyen steals every scene he's in even when he's a toady.

R228 Her being pregnant was probably a turn on for him. He freaky.

After she has Tom’s kid, she should fuck Matsson and have his kid. Then both her kids will be heirs. A new rivalry is born.

What’s going to become of Kendall’s “new Jess”?

r229, Geri (or Gerri or Jeri) has a built-in fandom from J Smith Cameron's theater career.

r239, maybe she's better in stage because she sucks the life out of every scene she's in.

[quote] I loved watching Tom and Greg have their little hiss hiss catfight in the bathroom. But honestly I think Tom should have kicked Greg to the curb. Greg truly, TRULY is a piece of shit.

And so is Tom. They deserve each other.

Interesting that they did the water thing with Kendall twice in this episode.

That's his whole thing

For real. She should’ve stopped by.

My compliments to the staff who did the lighting and set design for this show. Top notch.

Best buddies forever. Tom’s smile at the end of the second clip is cute.

Tom will in fact always suck the biggest dick in the room.

And so will Stewy.

Loved the kitchen scene between the four of them. Mom included. Roman was especially hilarious with his cheese bit….

I have to say when Shiv spit in the “meal fit for a king”, I was grossed out and it spoke volumes of her hate and resentment towards Kendall. It’s no wonder she changed her vote.

Shiv lived up to her name

All I could think of during that scene is given how Jeremy Strong is an annoyingly method actor, he probably actually drank that gross shit instead of having it to switched out r267.

Same r249. I bet he drank it

R242 - “ Interesting that they did the water thing with Kendall twice in this episode. That's his whole thing.

Kendall’s been in a few water scenes: In Italy, passed out on a float with a beer in his hand; The pool on Logan’s mega-yacht; The scene where he drives into the lake with the waiter; The ocean after his big Living + speech.

If you look up “poser” in the dictionary, you’ll see a pic of Kendall.

He’s a huge pice if shit.

He did drink it according to the official podcast. I gagged a little.

God, Tom is so attractive to me. At least until he opens his mouth and says something ridiculous.

Stop telling us various characters are pieces of shit.

We know. They're ALL pieces of shit. That's the point of the show.

Girl fight tonight!

Tom and Greg 4-Eva!

Shiv got to fuck over Kendall AND Matsson.

Best believe she’ll now prance around as the “besotted wife of Tom.” With adorable baby in tow.

Don’t forget— Matsson wanted to fuck her. She’ll be lording her reconciliation with Tom over Matsson’s head.

Matsson won’t care that much. He’ll just get another woman.

R185–Tom needs a piece of shit, just like Lukas needs a Tom.

Probably, r259. But Matsson seems so socially clueless, who knows how he’ll react.

He’s a bawse

They stuck the landing. The ending felt true to the characters and the spirit of the show. I’ll miss this show a lot.

Ugh. I hated this ending. HATED it. What a missed opportunity by the writers. Here is show that thinks it's far smarter than it is. Maybe it's strong on content... but the form leaves much to be desired. Structurally, we've seen the same three card monte BS narrative with Kendall, Shiv and Roman going round and round the mulberry bush. *Every* fucking episode it's checkmate for one of them at the hands of his or her sibling. Cool. We get it. Do something different, for the love of god. I was waiting for Greg to take them all down. He could have too. That would have been just surprising enough but still possible, given what we know about him. Instead we got 20 minutes of them putting shit into a blender and licking cheese. WTF? I want my money back.

Did Roman deliberately push his forehead into Kendall to reopen his scar? Or was Kendall doing that to him deliberately? That was creepy.

^ when they were hugging

[quote] Here is show that thinks it's far smarter than it is.

You just used the same line that Rhea used regarding Shiv in season 2. So maybe it's smarter than you think.

[quote]Instead we got 20 minutes of them putting shit into a blender and licking cheese. WTF? I want my money back.

That scene was fantastic and desperately needed in this finale.

It seemed pretty obvious to me that Kendall was pushing Roman's forehead into his shoulder. Roman was saying "what the fuck?!"

I'm happy as a camper. Was always Team Tom and knew Ken was destined for failure, though my heart broke for him, I think in the long run it will be good for him. He's free. I would kill a hobo to see a spin off of TomShivs dysfunctionally beautiful mess if a marriage.

Would have liked less loose ends but I have come to expect it from "Prestige tv" ...but I got Tom winning, Shiv and him reconciling (sort of lol) and the Roy's free. Can't complain.

The scene with the siblings was a highlight and I feel it was saying they will find their way back to each other eventually.

The problem is not about intelligence. It’s that this series didn’t have enough fuel to burn bright for four seasons. Too much treading water (and retreading). It should have been a lot shorter.

No.

The sibling scene was the most tragic of all. Those brief glimpses of humanity only serve to emphasize the tragedy of the other shoe dropping.

They were programmed to hate each other. So they do.

My own father has done his very best to pit my brother and me against each other. He’s really ramped up his efforts in his old age. So, I’m familiar.

My imaginary forecast:

Tom and Shiv are a miserable power couple

Roman becomes a drug addict and is killed by a sex choking accident

Kendall commits suicide

Greg is promoted but then fired when Tom needs a scapegoat

Hugo is immediately fired

Connor and Willa divorce

And Mattson loses interest in a year or two and sells the company

Meh I have thought so many times before on the shoq that the siblings would never talk to each other again after so many backstabings and betrayals and yet we saw them as we did this finale. I can only guess this means there isnt and end to their relationship.

R273 and then Greg is rehired. I think Tom is kind of dependent on him as a …something. Whipping boy? Human footstool? Little lackey? Idk, but Tom wants him around.

R274 that’d be hilarious. New owners, all new management.

Now that Tom is the Top Dog of his house, maybe he can let his own dog out of the pen. Let the little fella roam around the apartment.

CEO Tom makes the rules now…

I don’t see any reconciliation between Shiv and Kendall. It’s the ultimate betrayal and she emasculated him.

CEO Tom can fuck the Willas of the world.

Shiv will find some fuckbois.

I wouldn’t mind a Shiv, Tom and Mattson spin-off. The trio would learn to share, dominate and submit in new ways.

What did Greg do that Matsson called him Judas?

Shiv has been there/done that with the fuck bois she cheated on Tom with. She might hate it but her pussy will get wet enough for her new CEO hubby. Hell she treated him like her meat puppet and she fucked around during their entire marriage. The moment he showed a spine she fucked her over at the end of Season 3, after the initial rage passed she wanted him more than ever.

She might not love him anymore (or might, who knows) but maybe a marriage built on respect and power shifts is what works for her narcisstic ass.

R278 you’d think, but these people do the worst to each other and then forgive like the next day. It’s crazy.

She didn’t look very happy here, but she will probably learn to love a big shot CEO as a husband. Despite him being Tom.

R284 of course she's not happy, when has she ever been? But knowing her ego, least of all knowing she "lost" to the man she least expected and never took seriously. She relinquished her power and gave it over to him, that doesnt mean she had to love doing it. But ultimately, its what she chose and what she wanted.

R281 told Kendall that Matsson was going to drop Shiv as CEO

NB: Greg only tattled to Kendall after Tom told him he (Greg) would be busted down to 40k per year after Matsson took over.

Shiv’s betrayal blew my mind. She was promised CEO by Mattson, and loves the idea. Then Mattson fucks her over, and names Tom CEO. One would think, she would be in a rage, and fuck Mattson out of buying Waystar by voting no. Instead her deep-seated hatred for Kendall supersedes all, and she votes yes. Wow. She really does hate Kendall.

R286 but Kendall would’ve found out really soon anyway. Like later that day that Lukas chose Tom. Was Kendall just going to accept Shiv as CEO and not try to get it himself?

R287 what was Greg making at ATN?

R288 I don’t think she hates Kendall, she just didn’t want him to get what she thought she deserved. It wasn’t really ‘personal’.

And at least being married to Tom, she’s somewhat involved in the company. Maybe there will be a role for her there in the future.

I wouldn’t trust Kendall or Roman if I was Shiv, she was looking out for herself by going with Tom.

The ending was less bleak and ambiguous than I thought it was going to be. I’m glad for that. I don’t think we need another season.

It’s where he belongs

R289, Greg was making 200k at ATN. Tom basically told Greg “no more highest paid assistant for you!”

I feel there are 3 reasons why she changed her mind and most people will believe one ir a combination of the 3 depending on

1-Her ego couldn't take Ken winning. 2-She genuinely believed Ken couldnt make it and would suffer because of it 3-She wanted to save her marriage, whether for love or convenience (she was making an attempt to reconcile at the start of the epi)

I sort of believe 2 and 3, just because I think her ego would be far more bruised with what Mattson did than Ken getting it. But I am ok with the show leaving it open to the possibility of it being 1.

For now. Once Tom (and Matsson) settles in and cools off, Greg will get a promotion quickly. With Tom as CEO, I would bet Greg gets that salary back in a year.

Greg’s salary is not going to be cut. That’s just Tom messing with him.

Karl and Frank can retire to Karl’s Greek island. Good for them. Who needs the NYC shitshow?

Tom will probably die from a heart attack from stress in five years.

Tom doesn’t strike me as CEO material. Too nervous.

Tom is the Peter principle incarnate.

Actual footage from the show.

Logan’s “You’re not serious people!” was the truest thing he ever said. Imagine being in the board room and looking over and seeing three adults brawling while one yells “I AM THE ELDEST BOY!”

And they think they’re ceo material? Lol. Sure, Jan.

I'm sure this has been discussed, but it's fun to look at the names. The obvious ones: Roy = King, Roman is referred to as Romulus and even Siobhan's nickname, which as many have observed, she thoroughly lived up to. But the name Siobhan means Joan in Gaelic....which, for some might connote a woman (admittedly a far more virtuous one) in full body armor, charging down her enemies. I thought Kendall's was meaningless because some list it as just referring to the River Kent. But another definition is "King of the Valley." Isn't that perfect for Kendall? He never gains the high ground and only ever gets to be a shadow ruler.

Kendall, Roman, and shiv will all feel better about things in the morning. Their attitudes seem to do 180s all the time. Especially this season.

Kendall will feel a lot better once he does molly with Stewy and Stewy kisses him. Yeah, buddy!

Sounds about right.

I'd think that all three of the kids would have by now had a therapist OR anyone around them who knows a bit about sociopaths to inform them that their father was incapable of letting go of control or seeing anyone other than himself as CEO.

With the exception of the Holly Hunter and Cherry Jones episodes, I can't say I really enjoyed this show.

It's well written and well acted but it all felt a bit meh.

R306 Thanks for letting us know.

I keep seeing on twitter how sad it is that Shiv is destined to be like her mom now- unhappily married to a CEO, with a kid she doesn’t want, doomed to never do or get what she wants. And I have to say bullshit. She absolutely has free will to get the fuck out of there if she wants. And the means. (How much is each Roy sibling worth? Enough to start a new life elsewhere for sure).

I don’t believe in destiny or fate. She’s choosing to stay. Is it going to be worth it? Probably not, but I don’t know if she could be happy anywhere. Might as well stay in an adjacent role in her father’s former company I guess, if it makes her feel closer to him or whatever.

She’s not trapped, though. She should take her barnacle meat self and fetus and bounce!

[quote]A spin-off with Tom, Shiv, Greg, Karolina and Mattson would be kind of great

Please, no. Just let it be what it was.

R308 IA that is a weird take. Some people keep saying its tragic how she lost her power but the actual outcome of the very company changed because of her decision. Her outcome, for better or worse, was her choice, and she chose it for a reason.

Ha, I knew that look at r113 was the satisfied strut of a new CEO! Just that little snippet from the trailer told me Tommy boy had this. He looked so confident and pleased.

And was right at r115. Purple circle forehead sticker for me!

R273

Agreed.

Although Tom will not last as CEO beyond a year and will bounce around.

Roman I think will just come fat and debauched.

I think shiv will be a miserable housewife/trophy wife and will hate-fuck Matsson whenever he’s in town.

I want to see Mattson’s version of Boar on the Floor.

[quote]Best buddies forever. Tom’s smile at the end of the second clip is cute.

It was the last "Tom & Greg" scene Matthew Macfadyen and Nick Braun filmed together. They'd become very close over the years, and you can tell in the scene that the two were barely holding it together emotionally.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again the people who think that Greg should be or would be CEO thank God they’re not the ones writing the show. It’s an absurd idea. He was a ridiculous character and completely unqualified and had no chance. I was someone who figured that Tom would probably be the one who would slide in and be CEO. He is the embodiment of Logan and had been mentioned here before, the children of Logan Roy are not serious people. It was a perfect perfect finale to a perfect perfect series.

This episode should have been an email: "All - Shiv picks Mattson over Kendall knowing that Mattson picks Tom over Shiv. Consequently, Logan's blood-related grandchild is next in line for CEO."

Tom is not the new Logan or top dog. Mattson is the new Logan, it is his company. Mattson's future kid is the Nepo baby that could inherit his Dad's company. Not Tom/Shiv.'s Shiv.

Tom is just a CEO of the American operations that Mattson and his handpicked board could replace if he steps out of line from what Mattson wants. But ultimate Tom's job will be trying to keep Mattson happy

Alexander Skarsgard has become one of my favorite actors.

If you need a palate cleanser, if not a shower, after absorbing Mattson's eerie, twisted character, I recommend "Godzilla v. Kong" where Skarsgard plays the pure, good guy.

" I recommend "Godzilla v. Kong""

No

Yeah well, I merely recommended it, r320.

My earthy taste for low and high-brow schlock ("Succession") is all encompassing.

I cannot believe what I just saw when I searched that G v K trailer!

Mein Gott!

Macfadyen’s ability to shift Tom’s demeanor after becoming CEO was great acting. We saw on the election episode that Tom has no leadership ability. He is the American empty suit Mattson was looking for.

R323 Exactly why Mattson chose him - to be his underling and not have any ideas to implement. And since Tom doesn't do anything work-wise, he brings Greg along to do all the dirty work (since Mattson will clean house but it will be Greg doing the firing not Tom). Tom is CEO in name only.

Interesting that Shiv became a shiv, stabbing Kendall at the end so he wouldn't become CEO.

Not exactly the ending I was looking for but it makes perfect sense.

R318 of course Tom is the new Logan Roy and the character was always destined to be. They both worked their way to the top from humble beginnings by working hard and never giving up. Say what you want about Tom that he has no soul by he is an incredibly hard worker and he is a fascinating character to me. And Mattson said you wanted to be hands-off so Tom has a lot of power. And the reason that Shiv stayed with him is because she married her father more or less.

No, it was Logan's company r325. He was not hired as CEO, he built the company and was the largest shareholder of it. Until he started selling off stock the family was still the majority owner of it. Now it is Mattson's company.

It is not Tom's company and never will be, Tom is an employee. The highest ranked employee in America, but still Mattson's employee.

[quote]And Mattson said you wanted to be hands-off so Tom has a lot of power.

No, Mattson said he"s "not looking for a partner," he wants a "frontman" and a "pain sponge." Tom is just Mattson's puppet.

How could anyone watch that dinner scene with Tom and Mattson and think Tom is the new Logan? Mattson described himself as “Logan Mark Two, but sexy.”

Shiv’s sense of entitlement was unbelievable. She never even worked for the company. But now she can be the pillow talker to the puppet.

I am fine with Tom being a puppet (though Shiv can tell Mattson a thing or 2 about how Tom can act when belittled and disrespected a little too much) because Tom can handle being a puppet. He never aspired to be anything else. But whatever up post said he didn't do any work is full of shit. He's the only one I ever did.

Why do people think Shiv will be a trophy wife? As if she would ever do that to herself, with her ego, or didnt have a shining career in political consulting?

On another note, its interesting they flat out told us that Mencken might not win after all...so would the american ceo thing fall through were that the case? Because that position was only created to lure Mencken into not veto-ing the sell, but what if Mencken ends up having no power?

Shiv preferring to submit to her wimp of a husband who has already stabbed her in the back twice rather than give the crown to Ken was something else. It just goes to show how deeply she can't stomach him, just as most of us can't. Doesn't matter how much you deserve something, at the end of the day, no one wants to see a cunt win.

Roman the only one of the siblings ending up happy was beautiful to see. Meanwhile, Ken doesn't even know who he is without The Fight. Connor finally pronouncing the name of my country correctly, but (hopefully) it's all about to be taken away from him by that Nazi losing the election.

Does anyone know where the paradise scenes were shot? The gathering storm with the crashing waves made for stunning visuals. Croatia could never.

Great show, great episode, but I'm also relieved it's over.

Greg is a sleazeball!

I know Kieran Culkin's dad was a horrid stage parent, but his kid can act.

[quote]Did anyone else notice that Kendall hugged Roman only to worsen his wound and make Roman look even weaker?

I thought Roman was practically begging Kendall to abuse him and was making it worse by rubbing the wound against Kendall.

He's a full-blown masochist.

Barbados

Roman was so thoroughly defeated, even his brother's embrace was hurting him. The constant closeups on the battle masks on Roy's desk were very telling. Just complete submission. Which is why he almost lit up when it was looking like Ken wouldn't actually get the crown, and so he went in for one final stab, allowing Shiv to literally and metaphorically escape to seal the deal.

r336 Thanks!

[quote]Best believe she’ll now prance around as the “besotted wife of Tom.” With adorable baby in tow.

She'll be unhappy. She's now her mother married to a powerful man with a baby on the way. The difference is that Tom does love her but she doesn't love him the same way. She submitted to him already. For her, it was the easiest decision since giving Kendall the crown (after he and Roman snatched it from her and her husband backstabbed her) turned her stomach.

[quote]Ugh. I hated this ending. HATED it.

I get this but it was a tragedy. They were never going to have any sort of a happy ending. Roman is vile and has been from the first episode. Kendall is a psychopath and Shiv isn't as good as she thinks she is. She was constantly outplayed. None of them had it in them and their father knew it.

They're all filthy rich and miserable.

[quote]Roman the only one of the siblings ending up happy was beautiful to see.

He ordered Gerri's drink at the end, knowing that he completely destroyed that. He hurled every dagger he had at Kendall and that's done.

Kendall will likely be dead in a year. I wish they had of used the take when he tried to jump into the water at the end and Colin stopped him.

Where can I hear these juicy behind-the-scenes tidbitds, R338? Like about unused takes?

This parallel might have already be drawn, but nevertheless when watching the flashback of that party scene it occurred to me that Geri, Karl and Frank are in fact Shiv, Roman and Ken or at least the versions of what Logan had hoped they'd be.

Two things... where was their mother's vacation home that they congregated at the day before the board meeting located? And, did anyone note that "Daddy" Peter had a tight little body in his short shorts as the children said goodbye to their mother and him on the driveway of the vacation home??

Barbados. Can’t you read?

R337 The hug also suggested kids unused to being embraced, (as well as whatever bruises he had from almost being trampled).

R332 the fact that some people believe Shiv said no to stab Ken in the back remind me of what Shiv said about Logan in the last episode...he couldn't fit an entire woman in his head. There are a million more reasons why Shiv did what she did....not denying her ego being too bruised to see Ken taking it is a part of it, but there was so much fucking more. There is the fact that she is pregnant with Tom's kid. The fact that she wanted to get back together with him. The fact that she thought Ken may not have it in him and might end up destroyed for it, the fact that Ken belittled the fuck out of her when all she did was present doubts, not flat out said no, which caused her did in her heels even more.

A brilliant ending to an extraordinary final season of a remarkable show. It makes most other television dramas feel like barely watchable shit.

One question: didn’t Greg save some of the papers, or a page from the ashes at least, when they were burning evidence of the cruise ship cover-ups? He then had the job of deleting files from Tom’s computer after Logan died, and I assumed he’d take that opportunity to copy them for his own nefarious needs as well.

I’ve always thought that Greg had a final card to play, and was surprised that it ended without him having done so. Are we therefore to assume that Tom’s crowning is less of a triumph that it appears to be, and that Greg at some future point could bring it all crashing down?

I feel the "losers" sort of ended up winning. Connor was, well, Connor in the end, he wouldnt care one way or the other (he should have been featured more imo, he should have been in Barbados with the other sibs) Roman seemed relief, and Tom was named CEO.

Ken, I would like to think, doesnt self destruct too much before he can realize there is something more to life than trying to fill dad's footsteps. But I think he'll be ok...at worst, he'll end up like Connor.

Shiv is a hard one....she got what she wanted but I fear she will resent the fuck out of Tom. That said, loving him less but respecting him more could be what that marriage needs....or it could turn into a complete disaster. But she got Tom back, for better worse, and its what she wanted.

I think of it this way. About one in 10 million people or less will found a major company worth billions, that was Logan and he was exceptional. Maybe one in a thousand could manage to run that company without running it into the ground, and that was not Kendal or his siblings.

[quote]he should have been featured more imo, he should have been in Barbados with the other sibs

Caroline is not Connor's mother and I can't recall them even speaking to each other over the course of the show.

I enjoy Connor, but he has always been a side character. This show was never about him.

It was never going to be Kendall. For the entire series, he's never been shown to be competent at anything other than spouting meaningless business-speak.

It was never going to Roman. For the entire series, he always sabotaged himself whenever the pressure became too much.

It was never going to be Shiv, but I can't really explain why. It just never seemed like it was going to happen for her.

Shiv couldn’t commit to anything. Not Tom, not her progressive politics, not herself as a leader. People who like to keep their options open rarely get what they want, because they can’t decide what they want in time.

As Roman finally accepted this episode "We're bullshit", or as Logan said "you all are not serious people"

The kids are damaged nepo babies and none of them really deserve to be in charge of anything. That's why it had to end this way, none of them got what they want.

R348 that may be true but he was always a part of the major story and the sibling relationship between all of the Roy's was a major feature of it. They showed the 4 siblings together enough for people to want/expect Connor there. He didnt have to have a say or play a big part in the CEO thing but still be there.

Agreed R347. Maybe Logan’s last failure his realization that his kids weren’t “serious people” because of his manipulations and unrealistic example over the years, The siblings think they’re these glorious titans of industry, but the real business people in the room look at them almost as absurdly as we do. That seemed to be the vibe during the vote fight.

Nope—Conor was always the sideshow, never a featured attraction.

People who think that Tom is just Mattson puppet really don’t understand corporate America, This isn’t some insurance company or storefront cookie operation. Tom controls a lot of power now and the power is going to continue to grow. He will turn in to Logan Roy. He is at the head of the most powerful media conglomerate in North America.

Connor was never going to be part of the decision making. He wasn't even a member of the board. Connor never cared which of the siblings took over as long as his share of the family fortune continued to come his way. Since the purpose of the trip to Barbados was to coax Roman back and make him choose a side, there was no need for Connor to be there.

He can't turn into Logan. Logan did not have a boss, he was the ultimate authority in his empire.

Tom does have a boss, he has to answer to Mattson who actually owns the company he works for.

Don't see how that distinction isn't. Tom is still in a very powerful job, a role Shiv desperately wanted for herself, but ultimately the new Logan is Mattson who now owns a massive empire.

If the show continued, Mattson would ultimately be playing the role in the narrative Logan used to play as the intimidating authority.

Again, he didnt have to be a feature attraction to be on more R354...

R356 that wasnt the only reason. It was to show the Roy sibling dynamic. Connor was there plenty of times when the 3 main siblings were talking business, So yes he could have fucking been there .

I also think they were also subtly pointing in recent episodes that Connor was the only one with an actual relationship with Logan. Connor was the only one who knew his burial wishes, and they had discussed Logan’s dying, something the big three clearly never did. Connor was also there in that recorded clip with Logan and Geri/Frank/Karl where they were horsing around and singing.

I don't think Tom is the new Logan now but he could turn into him at some point. I agree Matsson fills that role for now. Who knows what the future holds though. He's certainly more in the running than the Roy sibs.

R360 I loved that taped scene, as in, it made my heart happy seeing it, but it was weirdly sentimental and stuck out especially in this episode. Like everyone stopped for a few seconds to remember Logan lovingly and then they all hurredly went back to back stabbing and it had no effect whatsoever on their actions.

Of course Logan had a boss r357. The board.

R355 R361 You're forgetting that Matsson was pressured to install an American CEO to ease through the Regulation process, foreigners being subject to increased scrutiny and resistance. Matsson could get rid of him as soon as the merger is done.

The important take away for me is that the siblings were not there r362. They are trying to live up to their father, but really they didn't know their father because he kept them out of his real life. Logan's work family knew him better than they ever did. And yes it was noteworthy how Connor was there, he probably actually knew Logan better than his younger siblings.

R364 I mean, ALOT of things could happen....they certainly left things open ended enough for speculation...that doesnt mean the show is telling us it would. As it stands, how it ended, Mattson found Tom useful enough to be named CEO. And even if Mattson fired Tom, it would still be a HUGE step in Tom's success to have been named CEO by him. So he's still have plenty of potential.

R365 I really like your read on that scene, that is very likely.

R359, Shiv and Ken independently and quickly made a decision to fly to Barbados to put the thumbscrews to Roman. Do you think either would have called up Connor to ask him to come along? And if they had, I imagine Connor's response would have been something like "Nah, I have to help Willa pick out a cowhide sofa before I head off to Slovenia or wherever."

R315 I figured it was their last scene filmed together. Tom’s face and smile towards Greg was very fond and open, and seemed more Matthew McFadyen’s actual smile than one of Tom’s. It was sweet.

I knew Tom would keep his emotional support Greg! He needs him Gregging for him forever.

The one thing that made me laugh was that last scene of Ken looking depressed into the east river. Dude just banks 10 billion dollars from the sale and all I think is Livia Soprano saying “poor you” LOL. You are not serious people. Truer words were never spoken

Honestly, I loathed Mattson so him firing Tom would only be a good thing in my book. His reputation, that preceded him even made CEO, and his creds would take him far, as far or possibly even further than Mattson would take him. After a while as CEO he could possibly do better than Mattson, or at least not have to work under someone quite as unlikeable.

Tom also managed to become the winner as far as human relationships. He and Greg managed to maintain their loyalty and bond, and while the relationship will be, um, rocky (though it could be good/fun rocky) he still has Shiv and will be getting a child that will likely love him too (I dont think he'll be a great father but if freaking Logan managed to have their kids love him despite it all, Tom is safe). Meanwhile we saw neither of the siblings except perhaps Shiv hold on to any other meaningful relationship. Though I do think eventually the Roys will find their way back to each other.

Not quite that much r369, people have done the math I think Kendalls and the siblings would have gotten like 2-2.5 billion each from the sale? Half in cash and half in stock in the new company.

Matsson isn't going to allow Tom to have power. Tom won't even last very long with GoJo. Matsson only installed him, an American, to smooth his way through the Regulation process. It made no real difference who it was, as long as they understood their figurehead role. Shiv didn't seem to get that, She was too high profile. Tom is such a sycophant Matsson know he could trust him, and even find him useful for the time being.

Kendall could follow through on the purchase of PGN and create his own blue empire to rival ATN, championing his daughter's social concerns and developing a distinct cultural voice in line with his conscience. As well as offering his children their own business thrones to ascend to. He could take new risks, get creative and do things his own way.

Unfortunately, Kendall's egoic tunnel vision blinds him to all but two options: Morphing into Logan 2.0 or rising up as the Anti-Logan, perverting and altering beyond recognition the very specific things his father built.

The myriad of other creative options Ken's obscene wealth affords him mean nothing to him without the real or internalized specter of Logan off of which to ricochet his every move.

R372 Eh, if he was planning on firing the CEO that fast, it wouldnt have mattered if it was Shiv or someone else.

[quote] Eh, if he was planning on firing the CEO that fast, it wouldnt have mattered if it was Shiv or someone else.

It mattered because she made things messy. He wanted to fuck her. He even said he didn't need that distraction.

What kind of crush do you have to harbor on Matthew Macfayden to see this as a victory for Tom? Mattson tells him what food to like, and he changes his mind. Mattson tells him he wants to fuck Tom’s wife and is hiring Tom because he would control the man who impregnated her. And he nods his head. He tells Tom that Mattson will run the show. Tom wholeheartedly agrees. Yeah, total winner just like the siblings who “win” with billions of dollars and are miserable.

Kendall was looking at the Hudson River. The State of Liberty and Ellis Island are far away, but that’s the point. He was never Logan Roy.

R376 Right? What about the phrase "I just need a pain sponge" sounds like a victory for Tom?

And that would not have been a problem if he we was planning on firing her as fast as you said you'd think he will fire Tom.

Plus I think that convo between Mattson and Tom was more about Mattson testing him than him being upfront about his feelings. If he wanted to fuck Shiv he probably would have already or at least would have started sending her his blood.

I feel there is ALOT of sour grapes in alot of the "Tom is a loser sycophant that will be fired soon and amount to nothing" argument

Tom’s been a pain sponge since he joined the Roys. He’s used to it. Told what to do, used, treated poorly. Although I don’t think he’ll let Shiv treat him like she used to. The power dynamics in their marriage have flipped. Now Matsson gets that job.

And Tom will get his lofty job title and paycheck so he’ll accept it. He is a material girl at heart.

Whoever mentioned Matsson’s version of boar on the floor had me laughing. What I imagine is Tom, Greg (because Matsson doesn’t like him now and wants to fuck with him), and all the other execs having to build sculptures out of Lego sized Matsson blood bricks. First one to build Hogwarts wins the sausage!

Matsson is such a twisted dude.

R355 he’s the temporal head of a news network..he would be dumped with a snap of Swedish fingers.

[quote] Shiv’s betrayal blew my mind. She was promised CEO by Mattson, and loves the idea. Then Mattson fucks her over, and names Tom CEO. One would think, she would be in a rage, and fuck Mattson out of buying Waystar by voting no. Instead her deep-seated hatred for Kendall supersedes all, and she votes yes. Wow. She really does hate Kendall.

Matsson ultimately owed her very little, and she knew it. So being btrayed by him was upsetting but not as horrible to her as Kendall winning everything.

But she blamed her brothers (rightly) for Mencken winning the election, which went right down to her principles, and she also could not stand to see either of them get ahead of her because she always has felt she is more principled and smarter, and has only lost out to them because of the world's sexism. When Kendall pretended that the death of the cater-waiter had never happened and that he deserved to succeed because "I'm the eldest boy," she lost it--until then, he might have been able to persuade her to vote for him.

The other thing to remember is that all of this is all based on family abuse. Their father's constantly putting them against each other and withholding of his love and interest for them made them all feel being CEO was the only thing in life worth winning., and that they would forever be in competition with each other. They cannot stand losing that opportunirty--which is what in the end made all of them lose it for good.

[quote]Kendall could follow through on the purchase of PGN and create his own blue empire to rival ATN, championing his daughter's social concerns and developing a distinct cultural voice in line with his conscience. As well as offering his children their own business thrones to ascend to. He could take new risks, get creative and do things his own way.

This would never happen for the reasons you mention, but also for a simpler reason: Kendall is totally incompetent.

Kendall’s going to live in a yurt in the desert for a while. Really find himself…

This is cute. Seems like Tom is looking at the baby.

That baby had an impact on the final season of Succession. Nice.

Season Five, Episodes 1 through 10

Awww R385 To me it looks like Shiv and baby looking at their husband/daddy

[quote]Connor was, well, Connor in the end, he wouldnt care one way or the other (he should have been featured more imo, he should have been in Barbados with the other sibs) Roman seemed relief, and Tom was named CEO.

Connor was the definition of, "The only winning move is not to play."

He stuck to trying to do his own thing for the most part. The sibilings didn't take him seriously because of it and in the end he ends up the happiest. Not only did he actually know his father in a way the other didn't but he didn't destroy his relationships with everyone around him at various points.

[quote]Are we therefore to assume that Tom’s crowning is less of a triumph that it appears to be, and that Greg at some future point could bring it all crashing down?

No matter what happened during the series, Tom and Greg have always had a connection. Even if their relationship is screwed up on the surface, Tom has always had his back. Greg no longer has the potential of riding Logan, Kendall, Shiv or Roman' coattails to success. He has always had Tom and they both clearly know that.

[quote]Shiv said no to stab Ken in the back remind me of what Shiv said about Logan in the last episode...he couldn't fit an entire woman in his head.

Out of all the sibilings, Shiv is the one that clearly had a heart. She did what she did for all the reasons that you said and it was the healthiest choice for ALL of them, baby included.

R389 I agree with most of the post except I dont know if Shiv had more heart, but she had more to lose. And she didnt want to lose it.

Psychologically, they fulfilled Logan’s prophecy that none of them are serious people. Even Tom is just a seat filler who will have to answer to Logan.

Shiv has a hollow victory. Roman and Kendall were humiliated. But it’s hard to feel sorry for them since they are obscenely wealthy.

Sorry, answer to Mattson

The one huge loose end I wish the show had addressed was the PGN takeover.

Since Matsson overpaid for Waystar-Royco, the children are going to be so rich now they can afford to buy PGN without having to stretch themselves like they thought earlier in the season. But since they cannot get along, they are unlikely to follow through and will either renege on the deal (which they may not now be able to do) or sell it off as soon as they can.

I do have trouble believing either Roman or Shiv are permanently damaged by the loss of W-R and by not getting the CEO position. Roman had no work ethic anyway and was just a spoiled playboy; he'll go right back to being one, and hire elderly prostitutes to fuck one another as he watches them. Shiv is stuck with Tom only for right now but she will likely divorce him now that he is the more important of the two and her power over him has been so decreased; she could do all kinds of other things with her money. Their child will shuttle between the two and be loved by neither of them (much as was the case with Shiv herself and her brothers growing up).

Kendall is the most fucked-up right now, since he will never be able to forgive Shiv, and Rava will likely stay away from him forever and try to keep the kids away from him (she will have plenty on him if she brings him to court because of the things he said to her during the election, so she may be able to blackmail him). Again, he is so rich that he could do plenty with his money now, but he will never be the kind of old-fashioned mogul his father was, and that has defined his life. But I doubt he commits suicide.

I agree Tom's position is completely vulnerable right now and Matsson could soon fire him (and likely will, given that his main reason in taking over WR was to screw over a powerful legacy media family, as Skarsgard explained in the HBO podcast last night; ahe knew of their bad history with Tom, I would guess, and hired him to turn the knife). But Tom would then get a great golden parachute.

[quote]Where can I hear these juicy behind-the-scenes tidbitds, [R338]? Like about unused takes?

Jeremy mentioned it in The Hollywood Reporter.

[quote]Strong is convinced there’s “no coming back from this” for Kendall, saying, “Kendall has just slowly mortgaged off everything, and has nothing left to live for.” And in one take that also didn’t make it to final cut, Strong said in his final scene of Kendall looking out at the water, that he “stood up and walked slowly to the barrier that was set up there and climbed over it, and I didn’t really know what I planned to do and the actor playing Colin saw me and ran, and stopped me from doing it.”

So if you watched the scene and thought that was what Kendall was going to do - well, Jeremy had planned that at one point but it got nixed. The final scene they used, as per another article, was the one that was always envisioned.

Can I have the meth, but with crystal lite? WTF

[quote] Shiv is stuck with Tom only for right now but she will likely divorce him now that he is the more important of the two and her power over him has been so decreased; she could do all kinds of other things with her money. Their child will shuttle between the two and be loved by neither of them

Tom has the capacity to love. And he seems to have been raised in a fairly sane and stable environment. He will adore his child and he will be a good dad.

Shiv is going to have serious problems dealing with being a mom though

For once, and only once, Lady Caroline made an attempt to reach her children… for no real good in the end.

I do disagree with the whole "get rid of Tom" idea. He will be exactly what Mattson said he'd be: a useful tool to squeeze money out of the corporation, to fire a bunch of people almost for the fuck of it, a "pain sponge." It's not like any of these people have an actual vision for the country (really, either the U.S. or Sweden), for the news business, for the future, for anything at all. And if having an American CEO gets some people in Washington to shut the hell up, even better. Why go through the hassle of bringing in some Swede to run things? Honestly, who cares who runs things as long as they run them on behalf of Mattson's weird ego and idiotic rich bitch whims?

"Shiv is stuck with Tom only for right now but she will likely divorce him now that he is the more important of the two and her power over him has been so decreased"

Tom has more power than her because THAT is how she WANTED it. She orchestrated it so. And she went back to him after knowing he would have more power. I really think people dont quite grasp the agency Shiv had in her finale.

I dont know what happens to their pairing except that it will continue for the time being. Especially with a child coming. Whether it is a good or bad marriage remains to be seen though sometimes dysfunctional people go by dysfunctional rules to make things work for them.

R397 Did you seriously not get it that the only reason Lady Caroline had her children come and visit was so that her weird new husband Peter and his weird friend Jonathan could pitch the kids his scammy money-making scheme?

And when they didn't take the bait, as their cars were pulling out of the driveway the next morning dear mummy goes "Go away" and daddy Peter mutters "Waste of time."

Yeah, real maternal caring there.

There was no reference to a scam, only to her advice that they should sell…that’s why they were invited.

Well, other than Roman, the other 2 showed up just to coerce Roman to their side, so that is just the Roys being the Roys lol.

Roman only went to Lady C to hear a pitch?

W-R is not a time share…

R401 Right but Peter and John had lots of ideas to share for what to do with the money once they sell

I do commend the writers for ending the show when they thought it needed to be ending but honestly, I feel the show could go on for several more seasons. So much more stuff to tell and so many lose ends.

I think Shiv would stay with Tom, because it’s her connection to her father’s company. It’s a hollow victory but she cut out her brothers from having any such connection.

[quote] And if having an American CEO gets some people in Washington to shut the hell up, even better.

You must have missed the part where Matsson explains to Tom that he realized the political game is not that hard, which is why he doesn't need Shiv for that, OR Tom.

I don't know why some posters are so personally offended that Tom's days might be numbered. It's bizarre. The regulatory process can take years, does that make y'all feel better?

Further: the Barbados scenes showed what they had, for a brief dining moment( or what they could have had if they all weren’t so fucked. A well-drawn contrast to the final scenes.

*shining

No I’ve been posting on here that Tom is or has or will turn into Logan Roy. After reading that Hollywood Reporter article I stand corrected. It’s obviously that the reason that Mattson picked Tom was to be his sycophant. Duh.😂

No to your last sentence, r407. CFIUS has a maximum review period of 90 days, which it can extend to 105 in extreme circumstances. Though I think Tom will survive for reasonable. A pain sponge puppet is too useful for Mattson.

Not offended by the idea of Tom getting fired. Just don't see the purpose for it. Why bother to fire your useful sycophant?

R407...sweety? It's just a show. The fact that you seem to be making it personal is that you aren't thinking objectively or rationally and have little of value to actually add.

R412 Hey frau, you're the one who needs reminding it's just a show. I read your posts, you sound like a nutjob.

I think you meant r413, or I hope you did. At any rate, although I do agree it's "just a show," that is never the devastating put down it's supposed to be. It's a show we're discussing, for quite a few threads. It's okay. We all get to discuss "just a show" whenever and however we all want to.

Girls! Girls! You’re all Gregs.

R415 I did mean 413, sorry.

I'm not begrudging anyone their post-finale fan-fiction fun. I just don't personally understand the pleasure in the speculation of what becomes of these characters. They're gone. They ceased to exist after 10:30pm last night. We'll never know. And I'm fine with that, but I enjoy having some ambiguity.

Great finale!

R393 I don’t think the kids ever really wanted PGN. They just wanted to buy it so Logan couldn’t have it. They knew that’s the one thing he really wanted. And it would burn him if they swiped it out from under him. But then he thought they were idiots for overpaying. Ha.

I’m not sure how binding their promise to Nan about the 10b was. Is a verbal agreement something they couldn’t say ‘nah, never mind’ about? Or did they sign actual documents promising 10 billion? I can’t remember that far back. It’s only been a week and a half since they met with her, maybe they could still wiggle out of the deal.

Yeah, I'm guessing nobody has actually signed anything, so the whole deal is just theoretical at this point r419. But like you, I can't exactly remember. I just assume even these nitwits would go through months and months of lawyering and corporate bullshit before actually handing somebody 10 billion dollars.

[quote]Geri, Karl and Frank are in fact Shiv, Roman and Ken or at least the versions of what Logan had hoped they'd be.

Guess that explains Roman’s bizarre comments about fucking Shiv.

Cast and crew horsing around.

R414 Actually my posts predicting the ending were on point, but it's okay!

Did Matsson say no to Shiv because he was hoping to avoid sexual temptation? Or because he thought she’d still fuck him after he betrayed her?

Or was he just reluctant to be bossed around? Shiv was right about releasing the India numbers.

Can you imagine being a Geri and working your ass off your whole life and having to deal with these idiotic nepo babies? Even having one derail your career?

I want to see a Geri spinoff.

The Tom/Shiv combo in the beginning was interesting..."You’ve fallen in love, finally....you've fallen in love with......our scheduling opportunities"

God I love them...I love their dysfunction. I would kill a hobo to watch that marriage for 10 more seasons. They're sort of a corporate Rhett and Scarlett.

R416 cousin Greg or Greg02116?

To quote Glinda: That one’s bad, this one’s worse than the other one.

Another angle on the story: women and glass ceilings and 'wives'.... (even beyond sexual harassment and bricks of blood).

Shiv wanted the throne, thought she deserved the throne, was set... and wound up the worst thing: she became her mother. Secondary supportive role to the guy in charge: like Mom... "another board meeting, well that's never happened before..." as Mom sarcastically dishes out. And Mom at the end just in service, not to her kids in crisis, but to her new husband and his business schemes and ambitions (and protecting his special cheese).

Her hand, at the end, accepting the open hand of Her Man, like a Queen whose destiny is only to support the Power on the Throne. For now accepting the dark fate of her gender.

R422 Kieran looks so cute in that outfit. Love the shirt.

You don't want to drag a show in the ground until people fall out of favor with it r405. You want to go out on top and leave people wanting more.

Ultimately this was the story of Succession, the kids think they can claim their Dad's legacy but once he is gone it falls apart and none of them are able to be their father.

I doubt this will be the last time we ever see these characters, maybe Jesse Armstrong will want to release some specials after some years pass. But I completely get why this was the right time to end it.

The kids will be having brunch together in a week or two. They won’t stay estranged.

[quote]Jeremy had planned that at one point but it got nixed.

More method bullshit?

FUCK OFF!

R428 I keep hearing this and still dont know why Shiv should all of a sudden become a trophy wife. She has plenty of ego and was great in politics. If anything I'd think this might just make her more competitive towards her husband.

Not to mention, though Tom will become even wealthier as CEO, Shiv will likely remain infinitely wealthier than him.

No doubt. She’s gotta have hundreds of millions of dollars, no? Her personal wealth, not the family or company or whatever.

I think Shiv might be ok as a mom. She is self-aware and knows what NOT to do as a parent.

She’ll need to find an important job. Otherwise, she’ll feel trapped by parenthood.

But when you have all the help in the world (no cooking, cleaning, or carpooling for ole Shiv), it’s not that hard to be a working mother.

R425: “ I want to see a Geri spinoff.”

Tom did say he was keeping her. So here’s hoping.

The kids are all billionaires r435. Even Connor mentioned being a billionaire in his concession speech.

Tom would be the loving parent, but you know this ceo job is going to take up most of his time that he’ll probably hardly see the kid.

Shiv will have a nanny or two to raise it. Maybe once she has it she’ll change her mind, but I don’t think she is interested in being a mom.

Still, Tom’s not as bad as Logan (yet?), so the kid has a bit of a chance of love and affection.

I agree r433. And "trophy wife" just seems like such a weird phrase to use for her. Tom might drop her for a trophy wife, but obviously the one you marry for her money and connections while you're grasping and striving is never the trophy wife. That comes later.

R438 wow. Morons. All of them.

Well, maybe Roman can enjoy himself now that his dad is finally dead and buried and the company gone. Be wild and free Roman!

Shiv never wanted to be defined by her connection to a man. Why she liked her marriage to her Tom who was below her in stature.

But now she is the wife of the CEO with no power of her own, she has money of course, but money and power are not the same thing. The kids have always had money, they have chased power.

And that’s how she lost.

Shiv being Tom's wife is NOT being a "trophy wife"... where did that I idea even come from? She is not young and beautiful nor dependent on Tom (she's got more money) but she isn't CEO, she isn't sitting on the throne. She's accepted her status ... for now.

But I wouldn’t count her out. She’ll find some other endeavor. She definitely won’t be a stay at home mom.

Did Caroline have a job? What did she do with her time?

Lady Caroline comes from an old money aristocratic family. I'm sure she was sitting on the board of various charity organizations and things like that but can you imagine that woman working a job?

Unlike her kids, she isn't obsessed with the idea of having to work a job to feel important. I loved how she belittled the importance of their board meeting.

Any chance Shiv will follow through with the Pierce deal? Could she afford it on her own?

We don’t know the final details of the GoJo deal; seems it was sweetened again just before the board vote.

It would not be smart to sink all her money into it, but who knows.

Also, the kids still have a shitload of ATN stock. How can they buy Pierce out? Isn’t that a huge conflict of interest?

Thank CHRIST Jeremy Strong didn’t get his way and Kendall wasn’t seen attempting to jump into the Hudson. Talk about on the nose.

It would have been stronger had it ended on Roman telling him “we are bullshit, this is bullshit” rather than grappling awkwardly towards the grandiose Shakespeare tragedy there was never enough plot nor poetry to fill.

R441 I truly see Roman getting fat and corpulent. Like how the formerly beautiful David Hemmings appeared in Gladiator. Or Marlon Brando.

He was abused as a child from memory.

I loved the look that crossed Willa’s face when she realized that Connor will not be going to live overseas if Mencken loses.

Did Logan want to sell his entire company to GoJo? Or everything but ATN? I can’t remember.

I want to see the cut Mencken scenes from this season. There had to be a few from episode four. He wasn’t in it at all.

Logan didn’t want to sell ATN but Matsson insisted after Logan fides.

Matsson took the ATN-included deal directly to the board, bypassing K and R.

I think this was part of the reason K and R soured on Matsson?

After Logan DIED

And so it goes…fare thee well, or not.

Should old acquaintance be forgot, and never brought to mind? Should old acquaintance be forgot, and auld lang syne?

Why would Shiv think she would want the CEO job knowing she’d just be Matsson’s puppet? She wouldn’t be happy just doing what she’s told and following his orders. It’s good for her that she didn’t get it but Tom did. Tom is made for following orders. He’ll do whatever you want as long as he gets the big bucks and status.

Shiv should now find a new project. I wouldn’t think of not getting the ceo job as a loss if I was her. (But if I was her I wouldn’t be working at all. World travel, here I come!)

And Matsson’s a creep, the less she has to deal with him the better. Now she’ll just have to listen to Tom complain about him rather than deal with it first hand.

I'll tell you why Shiv wanted to be CEO. Look at the cartoon in the magazine that shows Shiv pulling Matsson's puppet strings. She thinks she'd have real power. Every single move she makes to big herself up to Matsson while reducing Tom to a hapless dicklicker only served to turn Matsson off. She thinks she's sabotaging tom's chances but she actually paved the way to his ascension. In short, she had it all wrong. Matsson didn't want a collaborator. He used her and cast her aside. Like someone else we all now.

Surprise!

*know

R459 You took the post right out of my hands.

Like someone else we all (k)now.

Complete the sentence: who —?

Logan, R462.

Tom knew he was on borrowed time, unlike Shiv. He was useful as an American and a grunt until Matsson could be the sole CEO and give Tom a more appropriate title like CPS, Chief Pain Sponge.

Yes, without a doubt Logan, because he is a non-apologetic killer.

Anyone know why Karolina suggested to Shiv (before the explosive vote), to get rid of Hugo?

Thank you^

Because Hugo is a pencil neck geek.

Hugo and Karolina have always had a quietly antagonistic relationship from the moment Hugo arrives on the scene during Argestes. Hugo suggests getting rid of Karolina in the season 2 finale, as a fall person for cruises; Karolina forces Hugo to be the one to do the embarrassing negotiation of terms with Marcia's representative in the beginning of season 3; Hugo eagerly asks whether Karolina was on the redundancy list after the Norway trip in season 4. They just hate each other. Hugo wants Karolina's job and Karolina knows it.

R459 then shivs a freaking moron, lol. Anyone could see Matsson doesn’t want an equal. I know it was said she’s not as smart as she thinks, but she really really isn’t.

Was Hugo fired?

Hugo was on Matsson's Kill List in the Norway episode, so one can assume he's toast. Karolina will be fine.

Hugo was on the kill list, as R471 said, and Tom also rebuffed Hugo's flattery at the end of the finale, so...

Woof. Woof.

I guess some people are thinking that her motivation, R433 for the past few years has been impressing her father enough to become CEO of his company as his heir. That possibility is gone. Her father is gone. She had the job a few times and couldn't keep it because she couldn't keep up.

She's not the classic definition of a trophy wife. That meaning has expanded in the past few years. She's a status symbol, not because of beauty or youth but because of the power she wielded by name. Whether he planned it or not, marrying and impregnating Shiv Roy locked him in as the CEO. Even Lukas saw that as a power move and dumped her for the position for him. He was able to get her, keep her, make her the mother of his child and even after he backstabbed her, get her to support him enough to put him in the position. She's also still richer than him and will no doubt continue to help him out.

It’s not about Conor, Karolina, Jerri or Hugo.

Focus, please.

[quote] Tom has the capacity to love. And he seems to have been raised in a fairly sane and stable environment.

You clearly missed their epic fight on their balcony a few weeks ago. Shiv told Tom his mother moves her more than she loves him (because of who she is), and Tom looked horrified but did not disagree.

Tom would not have turned out as undeniably horrible as he did if he had had loving parents back in Saint Paul.

It's transactional love, to be sure, R476. But then again, so much that passes for love in this world is.

I’d would have liked to know about the torched Wisconsin ballots, and if a re-vote would have changed Menchin’s declared win.

It was implied there would be a process, R478. Mencken doesn't have it in the bag.

R476 sure he could, his parents may have been great and Tom still turned out as a money hungry social climber. I doubt Tom’s mom loves shiv more than Tom.

R478. Why? What difference would it make? It was Jesse Armstrong’s story, and it ended the way he wanted to…

Go write your own teleplay and sell it to Max…

[quote] It's transactional love, to be sure, [R476]. But then again, so much that passes for love in this world is.

Receiving "transactional love" from your own mother does not equal having "been raised in a fairly sane and stable environment."

The snarky fucker @ R481 needs its rancid diaper changed. Lighten up, Mary.

Right after you acknowledge reality.

R476 I don't agree that Tom is anywhere near as bad as the Roys and most of his back stabbing and betrayals had to do with Shiv not giving a fuck about him and treating him like shit. Tom's worst trait was the frat boy punching down low key bully shit.

So Greg is saved to be Tom's lackey.

No need to wait R484, I think the comment speaks for itself.

Greg became Tom's pirate booty.

You’re a mute. Got it.

Fuck off, R475

Ok, so where do I get the hanging monkey cap Kendall was wearing in the kitchen in the Barbados?

Greg becomes CEO Tom’s first mistress

I’ve been to Barbados…but where is The Barbados?

R492 Tom and Greg love affair set to music. Sorry if it's been posted already.

Did Mrs. Nichols get a royalty for that final scene if tom/Shiv?

Greg’s gonna be the kid’s godfather. For sure. Shiv’s choices will be vetoed.

[quote] Greg becomes CEO Tom’s first mistress

It was more of an awkward mutual handjob in the executive washroom, actually. Help me out, guys! Are we like, a couple now? Can I refuse to testify against him, if it comes down to it? I'd ask my grandfather, but you know he'd just give me that look and shake his head.

I would’ve fucked both of these guys in this kitchen. Kendall looked hot here.

[quote] [R476] I don't agree that Tom is anywhere near as bad as the Roys and most of his back stabbing and betrayals had to do with Shiv not giving a fuck about him and treating him like shit. Tom's worst trait was the frat boy punching down low key bully shit.

Prematurely calling the election for Mencken when he knew it had not been decided?

Knowingly helping Waystar cover up horrible sexual misconduct crimes in their cruise line industry?

Using employees in the workplace literally as footstools?

I hope this is the last we see of the actor who played Greg.

Lol, I said I liked Roman’s shirt and it’s probably the only article of his clothing I could ever afford- $13 from Walmart

They are both talented, cool and hot, R498.

R501, I actually identified with what he was wearing in those scenes!

I love that in order to show that Roman is broken and fallen far, they costumed him in a shirt from Walmart r501. Perfect.

R499 as far as the 1st point, he was just doing his job....what his bosses told him...and its not that that changed anything election wise

As for the other points, I never said he wasnt corrupt or was a moral person, I even mentioned that he punched down when feeling undervalued. He's just not as fucked and dysfunctional as the Roys.

It was BRILLIANT that they had Tom's thumbnail too low down in the spread about the Mencken call to come across as a major player. It absolved Tom of overt influence in what could in hindsight be a negative mark on his status or career. At the time he felt ripped off. But it was good.

I thought it was kind off asshole-y of the writers to write Willa being pissed that Connor might stay. I am hardly saying they write them as a love story but the last bit of hope that Connor's marriage might not be a complete disaster at least for the time being was just crushed, imo pointlessly. Just salt in the wounds.

I guess Roman is the only one of the Roys to sort of/kind of end up winning. He seemed genuinely relieved. Shiv was a bit of an empty semi victory because of what she had to give up. And Kendall....man I was and still am Team Wambsgans and think the right person got it, but he just decimated me, my heart ached for him. What a heartbreaking character (I mean they all are, but Ken is #1

Ken is your Number One Boy, R507

Everyone saying Roman seemed happy-slash-relieved at the end of the finale wasn't watching the same show as me. He took a sip, and a flicker of a smile came across his face for a second -- but it turned immediately into the most poignant, saddest look I've ever seen in my life.

R508 No, that's still Tom, but Kendall to me is probably the most tragic character in recent tv history. That ending haunts me. Strong is outstanding.

R509 bittersweet is better than bitter and to me it came off as bittersweet. YMMV.

I hear you, R510. I just watched the finale again and I was devastated this time. Last night I was too busy taking it all in, processing and analyzing to feel devastated. My brain was spinning.

The scene with the siblings during the board vote was so fucking raw.

Oh Kendall.

[quote] as far as the 1st point, he was just doing his job....what his bosses told him...

And so was Eichmann.

r359 Connor does not live in reality. That's the comical approach they took to his character. He has nothing of value to contribute when discussing business or the company.

Yep. Connor married a whore. And whores gotta whore.

[quote]Strong also revealed one of the rejected takes filmed for the instant-classic final scene. In the episode as aired, the dejected Kendall, having lost his bid to succeed dad Logan in the top spot, wanders from Wall Street to Battery Park and, with the Statue of Liberty all but beckoning, looks out tearfully to New York harbor, likely contemplating his end. In the take not used, Strong took the scene one step further, actually climbing onto the barrier only to be pulled back by bodyguard Colin (Scott Nicholson).

[quote]“I looked at these waves and it was so windy that day and so cold and there was some piece of metal clanging and it was this terrible sound and I sort of couldn’t bear it. I stood up and walked slowly to the barrier that was set up there and climbed over it,” Strong says. “I didn’t really know what I planned to do, and the actor playing Colin saw me and ran and stopped me from doing it.”

DDL has so much to answer for.

Throw away (and not so throw away) lines from the finale that made me laugh:

Roman: "All the seas, if you didn't know this, are connected. It's like a huge water subway for things that want to eat me."

Roman: "They call it the second week itch."

After Connor explains "sticker perambulating circuits," Shiv (sarcastically): "we call them spcs."

"Creamy margins" - I forgot who said it.

Connor: "The second tier bereaved."

Roman: "Like you've killed so many people that you forgot which one?"

Kendall (I think): "Cunt is as cunt does" - should be DL cannon.

I’m not too sure I understand why the power balance between Tom and Shiv has shifted, as so many people here claim. Tom might be the new CEO of American operations, but as was made amply clear, he will be only a front man, a “pain sponge”, and will be Matsson’s puppet, who can, and probably will, fire him the minute all regulatory hurdles are cleared. Shiv, on the other hand, is now a multi-billionaire, and no one can take that away from her. She can start her own business like The 100, buy an island in the Caribbean and fill it with hung studs to fuck her non-stop, whatever, possibilities are endless. She’s in an amazing spot I think.

R516 - Yes, so many great throwaway lines in this show. Also from the final episode... Kendall doesn't bother to learn his new assistant's name and just calls her "New Jess". God, these characters were awful, but it was fun to watch them!

But the spot Shiv is in is not the one she wanted. All of the siblings act like they've lost everything, when in fact they've made a fuckton of money, which opens so many possibilities. I do think Tom's position is pretty secure. He knows how to handle big personalities-- he had made himself useful to Logan and he will do the same with Matsson's. He's made it clear he doesn't mind being a puppet. It's not like he has any big ideas of his own apart from staying rich.

^Well, I think the recurring theme of the show is that these people have always had $$, but want they want is power and now the only one of them that has it is the loathsome Tom. Rather than think of all the possibilities in their lives, these three will live like royalty in exile - always brooding about what was supposed to their birthright that has been taken from them.

[quote]He seemed genuinely relieved. Shiv was a bit of an empty semi victory because of what she had to give up. And Kendall....man I was and still am Team Wambsgans and think the right person got it, but he just decimated me, my heart ached for him.

Jesse Armstrong talked about where they are and their futures.

Roman is back where he started and this was a detour.

Shiv neither won nor lost but she still has some plays left. (Technically, since she's married to the CEO, Mattson doesn't hate her - she just was his second choice - and she'll still be around all these people ... she can still do things.) She and her brothers will have issues repairing their relationships because of the last few years.

Kendall will never get over this loss. He can try doing his own thing but this will haunt him forever.

When you look at it, Roman and Kendall are out completely but Shiv still could try if she wanted. Tom and Mattson would definitely give her a job with some power but Tom would never put her in a position where he'd have to watch his back.

Haha, Tom will always have to watch his back with her. She’d backstab him the same way he did her if it benefitted her. Just because she didn’t get this CEO job now, doesn’t mean she can’t get it in the future. She has to work Matsson right. She’ll realize that. There’s still a lot that could happen with these people.

Kendall and Roman should be glad they’re out. Roman might be, but Ken will probably be dead in five years.

[quote]I thought it was kind off asshole-y of the writers to write Willa being pissed that Connor might stay. I am hardly saying they write them as a love story but the last bit of hope that Connor's marriage might not be a complete disaster at least for the time being was just crushed, imo pointlessly. Just salt in the wounds.

A number of DLers have projected unearned integrity onto the Willa character throughout the series. I never understood it. It's been clear from the outset that she in this for the perks. If she feels anything for Connor, it's pity -- but that's certainly not enough to keep her from divorcing him in the relatively near future.

Willa actually says as much very recently, in season 4, episode 3, “Connor’s Wedding.”

I was blown away by Caroline’s character in this episode. A complete 180 from the somewhat cool and snarky bitch she came across in past episodes.

I found her to be the most caring, tender, and doting towards her kids. Her temperament in the “Meal fit for a King” scene in the kitchen was endearing. Good actress….

What r525?

Caroline was definitely Caroline. She refused to help treat Roman, leaving Peter to treat his eye. She barely fed her kids, inviting them over without buying any food.

And worst of all she was getting the kids all together so Peter and his friend could hit up the siblings for money and try to get them to invest money in this scheme.

Her character remained her terrible Mother character.

Yes, I agree with r526. Caroline seemed to be nice at first in the series finale, but it was clear she was only interested in having them there so Peter and his friend could shill their idiotic scheme for retirement homes to them. When the kids drove away the ext morning, as someone pointed out she said, "Go away." God only knows why Roman went to her house (all the way in Barbados!) after getting beat up in the streets: it probably was just instinctual that when you're physically hurt you want your mommy, even though she has little succor to offer him.

I am amazed at how some of you keep wanting to suggest some of the characters on this show--Willa, Tom, Caroline-- are secretly nice. None of them are in the slightest. they are all horrible people. Perhaps the only person who has anything like a moral conscience is Ewan, and he's a bully just as his brother was. None of them are nice people. None of them.

[quote]If she feels anything for Connor, it's pity -- but that's certainly not enough to keep her from divorcing him in the relatively near future.

You could argue they have the most honest relationship out of the entire bunch.

As R524 said, she says she's there for the perks and the security when he asks but she does care about him. He's okay with that because she sticks around and she puts up with him.

According to the actress in interviews, Willa does like Connor and finds him amusing even if it's a transactional relationship.

In the end, she gets a fancy home, a career that isn't dependent on pay as an actress, Connor's money to burn, and to be left alone while her husband goes off to another country. Connor gets a younger, beautiful actress wife who he rarely sees but puts up with him and listens to him when they are together.

He's also older, so I don't think she'll divorce him. They'll go open and she'll wait until he dies.

Willa isn't an actress. She's a playwright.

Willa isn't a playwright. She is a prostitute that hit the jackpot.

I didn't say she was a successful playwright.

[quote] Perhaps the only person who has anything like a moral conscience is Ewan, and he's a bully just as his brother was.

Finally, someone who doesn't think Ewan is the reincarnation of Gandhi. I hated this character from the beginning. His pretentious, self-aggrandizing moralizing was obnoxious and served no purpose except to shame people. He crashed a funeral and turned it into a bully pulpit like he was the second coming. He couldn't even vote no in the boardroom with quoting the Hippocratic oath. What an asshole.

Ewan was prophetic. That's not necessarily a good or pleasant thing.

Ewan was a hypocrite and a Pharisee.

r517 Being CEO of a multi-billion dollar American company doesn't result in quick firings. Tom would have a contract that would be painful for Matsson to pay out and then it would effect Matsson's ability to recruit top choices next search....These aren't "jobs" and tossing people aside can get complicated. Look how Gerri reacted when Roman fired the head of a studio. It was a major fuckup. And Tom's contract is worth 25-50x as much.

I'm not r517, but it's been clear from the show that the mercurial Matsson has no problem with paying through the nose if it suits his purposes, as when he made the outrageous offer for Waystar-Royco stock.

Tom will certainly end up rich no matter what (even though Shiv apparently has an ironclad pre-nup), but that does not mean he will hold onto his job.

Whoa you guys I just found this randomly on some Tumblerina's feed comically linked in another thread. Now we know why they chose the name Mencken.

You just discovered HL Mencken now?!

Love Mencken. but that quote is mangled. People didn't throw the word "narcissist" around in the 1920s as they do today:

As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

Connor allowing Willa to Joanna Gaines the shit out of that gorgeous apartment but saving the best and weirdest antiques and collectables for himself is pure Connor.

I like Willa but goddamn on the cowprint sofas.

Jesus.

And Willa’s Nancy Reagan red dress on election night was perfection.

I thought Lady C and Marcia sitting with their "other women" was masterful. It just showed the others that they meant absolutely nothing to Logan and didn't get a dime from him (that we know of).

The final scene, with Shiv's hand on Tom's reminded me a scene from an earlier season where Logan was sitting in the seat Tom was sitting in. I believe it was when Logan was telling Shiv he wanted it to be her (well, one of the times anyway).

Roman breaking down at the funeral was somewhat believable, to me. He did wish his Dad a Happy Birthday so he hadn't cut him off completely like Kendall and Shiv had. It could also have been guilt because he sent Logan some terrible text and, the next thing you know, he's being told his Dad has died and Dad has his phone with him. He probably thinks he killed him.

I'm torn between thinking Shiv approved the sale so that Kendall wouldn't have it or because he had called the election for Mencken and she thought Kendall would turn out to be just like Logan.

Most of the people on the show (actors, directors, writers) say that Shiv only did it as a knee jerk reaction to seeing Ken possibly taking the "throne".....honestly, I can see it. Though I wont demonize her for doing so, not like her brothers would have done any differently.

I have just rewatched the first episode of the series. It is eerily similar to the last one. But I have one question. In the first episode, Logan wants the kids to sign a document that states that, upon his death, his wife will get two votes on the board. Can someone who understands the corporate world explain to me why her two votes were not part of the final decision?

Only Kendall signed the document giving her the two votes. Greg was sent to the Roy apartment to retrieve the other docs for the other siblings to sign, but he didn’t.

I don't think Marcia wanted the votes anyway--she wanted money. After he left her for Rhea Jarrell, and then in turn rejected Rhea, he went back to her, and her price was to get far more money from him in his will.

Thanks R546

Speaking of 2 votes: In the final episode, which 2 members had 2 votes—causing the vote to go to 6 - 6? I counted each and every vote both times I watched the episode, and there were only 10 votes total when Shiv ran out.

I think Stewy and Sandy Furness each had two votes.

Sad that it’s over.

I am this close to starting a rewatch, just to watch everything in a different context knowing the ending. This must be done with all great shows.

I have rewatched the first two episodes. Someone mentioned that it is a circular show, and it sure is. The conversation around the hospital about naming a CEO is almost exactly like the final episode. Kendall wants it, then Roman reluctantly agrees but Shiv does not. At one point, Kendall says "You are not serious people."

If you listen to the podcasts, the show’s creators are apparently aware of the circular nature of the show and see it as part of the show’s humor. But I found it irritating at times as a viewer even though I love the show.

Can't be the only one that finds this interesting, Succession characters ranked by number of lines.

[quote] This must be done with all great shows.

Says who?

Hi all- I did not even watch this show until 12 months ago and caught up on Max and became OBSESSED..

I sat here tonight pausing the kitchen scene with the siblings at the 1/2 way mark around 20 times- I just don't want this show to end. Keep replaying the Shiv/tom scene- and cannot go forward.

Still have 30 minutes left... I have not read one reply on this thread, and I really thought that this was Shiv's game ---- No idea now..

I personally think that this finale is just PERFECT.

Just one of the best shows EVER!

Marcia! Marcia! Marcia!

I didn't watch this show until it was over and then I binged it in 10 days. At one point, I watched 5 episodes in a row - only snack and potty breaks allowed. Great series but I never would have been able to keep up with it watching once a week. There's too much information to remember from one episode to the next.

Such a strange series. Everyone is so despicable, I rooted AGAINST everyone instead of FOR anyone.

I could make a case that Shiv and Tom work in some weird way IF McFayden didn’t read as totally gay / closeted.

Nah R560, he's just British.

Tom did read as a gay man more than straight. How they write him, his great speech about the "ludicrously capacious bag, what does she have flats for the subway?".Was a bitchy gay man speech.

Tom's an old fashioned dandy, he's not gay lol (though I bet he likes getting pegged by Shiv) but I get the mix up.

Tom was probably one of the written/constructed characters in TV. Was seldom a fan, but that character was amazing.

In retrospect, the show is really Tom’s story.

How an outsider took over the family business despite their fucking with him at every turn.

A lot of articles have said “Succession” is primarily Kendall’s story. I have no idea what show those people are watching.

Tom was my favorite beginning with Season 3. Probably the most complex character, which on any other show would mean he's the darkest or morally compromised one, but in this show it's the opposite, he's not quite as messed up as the others, and actually has some decency (while still being an asshole in his own way) which gives him more complexity. He was raised seemingly decently by fairly good parents so there are things he sees first hand from the Roys you can tell almost repulse him, yet at the same time he is sort of fascinated by them and wants to be a part of them, without wanting to be exactly like them.

I also love how well he reads Shiv, at least how he learns to eventually do so. No one really calls her out as well as him. I still don't know whether I love the couple or pray Tom escapes from her. Very interesting pairing, for sure.

Kendall, Shiv and Roman were the main characters of Succession. The show revolved around them and they received the most screen time.

Tom is a very important character, and one I loved, but that doesn't make him the main character of the show. Words have meaning! The amount of screentime devoted to him was still well below our three anchors.

Do you like to do your house chores in the nude?

I liked Gerri. She appeared to be a tough smarty-pants but she had a kink or two. Plus, the old girl was still dating men and I believe she saved Roman's dick pics for dildo fodder.

I can't wait for the Succession Christmas special! Gerri sings What Child is This?

[quote] Tom was probably one of the written/constructed characters in TV.

Huh?

I realize I am very late to this discussion and I've only gotten to about 400 posts so apologies if these items wee brought up and I missed them, but did anyone catch what Caroline muttered at the funeral when Logan having four children was mentioned. It seemed to me she may have been saying maybe. Were they all his? More bloodline questions.

I know I am pretty much alone in my Wirecard interest, but Mattson reminds me of Markus Braun. (India might have been the tip of the iceberg of fraud.)

R572, I took it as more of a mumbled objection to Kendall saying "he made us." Thin skinned, defensive Caroline hated that remark.

[quote] Tom was probably one of the written/constructed characters in TV.

Truer words were never spoken.

He was certainly not one of the entirely improvised ones.

I want another season!

[quote] He was raised seemingly decently by fairly good parents

You've said this before on these threads, yet there's absolutely nothing to indicate this.

In fact, the contrary is much more likely true, since he grew up to be such a materialistic snob (which he would not have likely done had his parents not tolerated it), and since during their big fight Shiv said his mother liked her more than she liked him, and he did not contradict that and looked pained when she said it (as if she were saying a home truth).

Tom is a bully who hazed both Greg and his subordinates in the office (if you'll remember, he made them be his literal footstools), and he betrayed his wife to her father. His character is not a good person by any stretch of the imagination.

You like the actor (as do I ), but as a result you're projecting things onto his character on the show that are not there.

Agree R575 if there was ever a show that could have and should have gone on for longer it's this one.

R571, I dropped the best in that sentence. Best written. (And impressively acted. I'd argur for diversity and complexity, it was probably the best performance across all four seasons. He's bound to get the Emmy.)

I remember years ago when the film "Signs" came out, and a poster had this theory that the aliens in the film were actually misunderstood and were not invading but were trying to be friends.

No one bought his argument, and yet he kept making it over and over and over again.

Tom told Mattson that he was willing to be the pain sponge to help take the company into its new era. He meant it, as this was the role he took on from the beginning of season one.

Tom was my favorite as well....he loved money and was attracted to prestige but he wasn't the full on toxic narcissist that the Roys were...he had a shred, if not much more, of decency. And I love how by the end he had a total read on Shiv, yet still sort of loved her.

As far as him being a pain sponge, he definitely was but he was wise enough to know that that, and not pride, is what would take him to high places. He was blessed, unlike the Roy sibs, with not having to prove himself for love.

Also a few church lady comments about the funeral:

Kendall’s ode to Mammon eulogy was quite blasphemous. I half expected the priest to interrupt him.

The two wives and two handmaidens in the front row with the semi-estranged (older?) brother telling takes about mistreatment by the Uncle recalled motifs from the story of Jacob. Logan seems as much in the pattern of the trickster with quarreling children as Lear.

I wondered how they got an agreement to film in that church, with all the swearing in the script. It just seemed... inconsistent with its day job. But, maybe a location fee is a location fee.

Great interview, R584. Thanks.

Just remembered that Shiv talked her way into getting a seat on the board ( and thus the deciding vote in the series finale ) back in Season 3 at the shareholders meeting when she bartered with Sandi to prevent her, her dad and Stewey from completing a hostile takeover of Waystar.

Fantstic interview and I found it really cool that the _SPOILER------ SPOILER----------

Caribbean scenes were the last scenes shot overall--- And you can feel that when watching it.

One of the best shows ever... I am probably now at

The Sopranos

The Comeback

Mad Men

Succession

Six Feet Under

R586, is Six Feet Under 1st or 5th?

R587- 5th.

And honestly, Succession is probably my 2nd or 3rd now and will probably be there when I do a rewatch in a year or so..

And I did not watch Succession until last summer... I actually waited 6 months to watch Season 3 (right before the final season)

I loved this show..

Succession is now #3 on my list after the Sopranos and The Americans (Mad Men #4).

R589- I need to try The Americans again- I lasted one episode... I don't know why- that show and The Wire were the 2 shows that I could not get past episode 1.

Succession and The Sopranos are #1. I appreciated both shows when they were funny. Black comedy is my favorite genre.

I loved The Sopranos when it as on and watched every episode, but I’ve never felt the need to rewatch it. Maybe one day..

But, r586, I love your list. I have rewatched Mad Men and The Comeback in their entirety many times. Am working through Succession here and there.

I have also dipped back into 6 Feet Under and The Americans here and there. They both had all-time great series finales.

Two other shows I thought were excellent and plan to revisit are Baskets and Better Things, both on FX, as is What We Do in the Shadows. It is probably my favorite show now that Succession is no more.

YES!!!!! Nice R592- Better Things was absolutely awesome. So quirky and real- just a special show.

Six Feet Under at the time was my favorite show on earth- far more than The Sopranos..

However, it did not age as well in a weird way (even though death is timeless) It has a quaintness about it or something.. it feels like a dream? And honestly, it makes me really sad to watch because I loved those characters like family. Even Lisa. That show is hard for me to watch now.