Anyone here ever lived in Hawaii?

No one has ever lived in Hawaii not even native Hawaiians.

It's unfriendly toward the whities.

It's expensive and you better love Spam in everything.

Your friend is right OP. The only way to fit in is to marry a local.

[quote]It's unfriendly toward the whities.

Are they POC?

If you were constantly having to deal with asshole tourists, you'd be pretty unfriendly also. Ask the New Yorkers whose hostility is on display daily.

Is there a meth problem there? Or are there other drugs?

yes big meth problems

[quote]Is there a meth problem there?

Hawaii or New York?

Hawaii

"Is there a meth problem there? Or are there other drugs?"

I went to the Big Island last October, and as I got off the plane, saw a local newspaper on display in the food-and-magazines kiosk. In great big letters, the top headline mentioned the "FENTANYL EPIDEMIC".

That said, nobody gave me so much as a dirty look the whole time I was there, and I'm a pasty blond Haole. Perhaps that was because the Big Island seems to have more space for Locals than some of the other islands, perhaps I behaved myself, perhaps nobody noticed me.

[quote]Ask the New Yorkers whose hostility is on display daily.

I was just there a few weeks ago. New Yorkers couldn't have been more friendly.

I witnessed a guard at a state park being extremely rude to a white tourist who was asking a simple question. They despise white people there.

I think they say native Hawaiians are a pretty small percentage, probably like 5%, of the population there.

Yes.

R13, considering white people invaded their islands and engineered a coup to overthrow their monarchy in the name of controlling the sugar plantations, I'd say Hawaiians are justified in hating whites, especially Americans.

Too far from the mainland. I will miss In N Out burger too much

Lived? I can barely afford to visit!

You sound grossly obese R17.

Book ‘em, Danno.

Bugs. No, like BUGS. Isolation. Expensive.

Fantastic vacation spot. Living full time. Meh.

Where did you see all the BUGS, R21?

Because I went to the Big Island last year, and there were very few bugs, none notable. But when I walked through the rain forest at night, there were tiny invisible frogs peeping all around me. That was awesome!

R16: If you believe in collective blame and collective punishment for crimes committed by white people, or any other group, then you have to accept the consequences, which is that it must also be. applied to you, by others, as they see fit. If that's the kind of society you are advocating for, you will pay for it dearly. Although most ignorant Americans are obsessed with race, especially when it benefits them personally, there are many other factors at play with inequality and injustice, chief among them class. I'm sure you'll be fine with accounting for your own role in that system, right?

I've been to Hawaii several times, and was racially abused once; told in very threatening terms that I didn't belong there, wasn't wanted and should leave. I provoked this by walking down the street. I wasn't even looking in the wrong direction and wasn't aware the person was there until the diatribe started.

Take from that what you will. I'm aware from what I've read online that this is not uncommon. Whether it's more common than other places I can't objectively say.

Native Hawaiians have a strong presence in United Nations human rights fora. There's a strong separatist movement and the Hawaiian language is experiencing a big resurgence. Not surprised you had that experience, OP.

^^ r24 rather

I live here (on Maui), and I love it.

My husband and I used to vacation here every year. After we both retired, we started staying for longer periods of time.

Finally, we decided to leave the emerald state of Texas and move here full-time. As our (good) luck would have it, we closed on our house in early March 2020...about a week before the national covid shutdown.

We knew what we were getting into, and we love it. We have many friends, gay and straight. Particularly on Maui, people are casual, laid-back, friendly. We go to the beach every night and watch the sunset. Invariably, our friends (and their dogs!) show up, too.

Every place (I've looking at you, Ohio) has its drawbacks. But on balance, there's not another place in the U.S. where I would rather live out my last 2-3 decades.

Where are you all experiencing this anti-White stuff on Hawaii?

I go here every year and I'm extremely white-passing (no one ever knows my full background).... and I never experienced that. I mostly stay on Oahu/Honolulu.

R28: The experience I had mentioned at R24 was Koa Ave, Honolulu, at night., probably after 11ish.

Lots of ethnic Japanese and Filipinos pretend they are indigenous Hawaiian (who are very few in number). Then they give the Whites, who without, Hawaii would revert to a cannibal shit-hole, a contemptuous attitude.

I'm not sure how anyone Japanese would ever pass for Hawaiin but nice story.

True. And Hawaii became inhabited initially by peoples from other parts of Polynesia. They're Austronesians. There are nearly 110 million Austronesians in the Philippines so I think I'll trust how people self identify in Hawaii before I give r30 any consideration.

Lots of hookers around that area at night R29, especially around 11PM. Waikiki is a strange place. I don't doubt you were talked down. I think it's a good thing to avoid the back streets of Waikiki as much as possible. Lots of whack jobs, drunks, druggies and crazies. Waikiki isn't Hawaii. Waikiki is a freak show of sorts.

I grew up here (here being Oahu). I'm a haole (caucasian) and a very obvious one with blond hair and blue eyes. I had some issues with locals in high school mostly. There is a huge resurgence of pride in being, and having, Hawaiian blood. That's cool. I don't get involved in the (sometimes radical) native issues. It's none of my business. I have great friends that are local, part Hawaiian, etc. It's not all crazy and bad here with race relations being sketchy or ugly. Most here are just good people trying to get through the day and be happy and content with their lives. It's a laid back culture here. I'm older now so I've seen a lot since statehood back in 1959.

I believe many residents have become angry and frustrated about real estate prices, cost of living, food and groceries, rent, gasoline, utilities, just in general. What they aren't realizing maybe is that this is going on all over the USA, not just in Hawaii. Most EVERYONE would love to live in Hawaii, and that is mainly why it is expensive. Most things must also be shipped or flown in. That comes at a cost. I have another home in California I go back and forth to. I think the cost of living here in Hawaii is fairly comparable to Southern California.

Some of the locals that are really angry about white people can be shit-scary at times. This is the same type of anger you'd see from other males where ever you happen to live. They are angry at the world. It's often 18 t0 30 year old male bullies with too much testosterone. There is however a basic anger about how Hawaii was taken, thereby destroying the monarchy, way back in olden times. It actually WAS a very shitty thing, and there is reason for holding on to this anger.

I love it here. I am home when I am here. I love it, I love the people, and I love the energy here. It is the best place on earth ... and I've been to a lot of places on this earth.

R33: Thanks for sharing your experience. As I said, that incident was one time out of several visits, but obviously when you are on vacation trying to escape the sad and ugly things in life, an encounter like that leaves a poisonous stain. It leaves you wondering how widespread it is. I was there in that spot because I was coming out of Wang Chung's, otherwise I wouldn't have been loitering in a backstreet. I recognised that the guy who said these things was young and angry and full of testosterone, and historical resentment was his excuse for channeling that at me. I've seen a million white guys with that same energy. No doubt he'd been out too that night and didn't get what he was looking for and that set him off. I am very aware of the history of Hawaii and the injustice of it all and I've read some activists saying tourists should not come at all because they put pressure on the locals. It does make me wonder if I'm right to come again, to one of my favourite places. I also don't want to be unwelcome. If something like that happened again, I 100% would not come back.

"Most EVERYONE would love to live in Hawaii" lol NO! I gave it 5 chances and hated it more every time. Never again. Boring, small, provincial and full of fat losers with huge chips on their fat shoulders against happy successful White visitors from cold places. Fuck Hawaii. There are countless places on earth more beautiful and interesting than than festering little scrap of volcano shit.

Hawaii is nice but it’s more than just the tourist places. Check out that movie with George Clooney that takes place in Hawaii. It doesn’t look so pretty everywhere

Partner's family is from Hawaii, they are the most unfriendly people I have ever known, but weren't that bad when they lived in California. They all eventually moved back to Hawaii where they had lived as kids, and now claim to be "real Hawaiians" when they're not. Their grandparents all immigrated there from other countries in the late 1940s and early 1950s. Partner's half-siblings' mother was white (European Spanish and New Zealander, though not Maori) but claimed to be "native Hawaiian" because she was born on the big island, so the kids do, too, and they'll talk about how the "white people stole their land" without realizing that their grandparents WERE those white people. If you read their Facebooks they have a lot of white friends who do the same.

You only have to travel by road straight from the airport to the hotels in Waikiki to see that not all of Hawaii is nice. This is not a shock or a revelation. People actually live there and have to make ends meet. A lot of them do it in poverty. I'm told some of the small towns off the beaten track are drenched in meth, but to be honest I've mainly stayed in nice resorts, stuck to the natural beauty spots and not gone looking for trouble in places I might not be wanted.

[quote] There is a huge resurgence of pride in being, and having, Hawaiian blood.

Just to be clear. The same thing, if done by white people, is called "white supremacy". It's despicable in *both* cases.

[quote]The same thing, if done by white people, is called "white supremacy".

It is not and get a different hobby, for fuck's sake. Spending a Saturday morning trying to start a troll war with racebait is pathetic.

Too isolated unless I have to be stuck on an island then yes. Otherwise I love mainland USA

[quote] obviously when you are on vacation trying to escape the sad and ugly things in life

I think you have to be aware of your surroundings, no matter where you go. Hawaii is not a paradise you can step into and drop your guard. As stated, there are issues of poverty, drugs, etc., just like anywhere else.

Several years ago I had sex with a native Hawaiian. He was the sweetest guy but he had fairly tinymeat and cut dick. Two huge strikes and I dumped him really fast though he was an ideal boyfriend.

^ Unquestionably a win for him, though.

[quote] I'm not sure how anyone Japanese would ever pass for Hawaiin but nice story.

Oh, sweetie, anything left of California is considered oriental.

[quote] I was there in that spot because I was coming out of Wang Chung's, otherwise I wouldn't have been loitering in a backstreet. I

How many years ago was this? Because that's right off Kuhio Ave right? A few years ago that area had several gay bars and lots of prostitutes, but now it's all been cleaned up. I went to Wang Chung's last year and that area is no longer sketchy

For my dime, you take back what you bring to the table. If you bring anger an a superior attitude then you're likely to get a smack of reality when that shit comes flying back at you R35. You tried 5 times? What does that say? that's a lot of times, dude. You must have wanted things to work out for doing that many tries.

Here is something to ponder... and you can depend on this happening every day of the week, all over these islands... if and when you arrive to a new place with the attitude that you are better and smarter, don't be surprised when you get your ass handed to you real quick. No one likes a smart ass, especially one that puts down and then tries to change the way things have been done here for many moons. I expect you are one of those guys. I'm not surprised. I don't know why you are.

R46: Just before Covid.

To the poster on Maui, cate to share which part of the island you’re on? Do you own a house or condo? What has been the best part and the worst part? I’m just super curious.

^^^ Hi! It's me, Maui resident. I live in south Kihei near the Kihei/Wailea border. Husband and I own a house; we added a pool and some other stuff after moving here.

I am sure Maui is not for everyone, but we really love it here. "The world" (well, the south Maui world) shows up for sunset; it's always a laid-back good time. We are literally 700 steps from the beach, so being outdoors (walking, swimming in the ocean and/or our pool) is a daily occurrence. It's so easy to stay active, eat well, sleep soundly (it's so quiet here you can leave the windows open and hear the waves crashing).

As an eldergay who's not getting any younger, I have to say the worst part, for me, is health care access. I have good insurance (thanks to my husband, who was a university professor for years), but some types of doctors are just not readily available. But my main health concerns (primary care, mental health, dermatology, and dentistry) are adequately met here. And the specialists are a short flight to Honolulu.

On balance, it's been totally worth it. I wish we had moved here sooner.

The spam sushi there is so fresh it's as if it's straight from the can

R42: I was aware of my surroundings. It was a well lit street, not scary at all, with a bunch of other very normal people around. And seeing the abuser directly before he started shouting abuse from across the street would not have prevented it from happening.

[quote]I'm not sure how anyone Japanese would ever pass for Hawaiin but nice story.

I didn't say they passed, I said they claimed to be native Hawaiian. I can assure you that many people don't buy it, to the point that when one of them recently said publicly that he was a local, a bunch of people dunked on him, even though he was born in Honolulu and lived there until he was 10, and moved back in 2002. If they didn't accept that he was a local, they sure as hell won't accept that he's a native Hawaiian islander.

My sister moved to Honolulu, just because, and loved it. This was in 2012 and she found a furnished studio in a high rise for $1200 a month. We lived in the SF bay area where she was paying 1500 for a studio in an ugly part of Mountain View so this was quite an improvement. She said people were really nice (she's blonde hair, blue eyes), found the good beaches, all was mahalo. Then she met a guy who was about to leave for a job...back in the bay area. He loved Honolulu too but this job paid so much he took it and she came back with him and regretted it. He hated living in siiicon valley and moved back to Honolulu to work remotely.

Never been, but I like to imagine the day I go, i'll see magnum p.i. tom selleck clones with hairy built bodies in speedos/bikini's all over the beaches! laugh!....

R27 & R50 I'm happy for you. You have the discovered the ideal lifestyle on Maui. I'm the contributor living on Oahu. We are on the North Shore, away from all the insanity of Waikiki. Each island has a different appeal, different vibe. There is a reason why Maui is the favored isle for people to visit and relocate to.

One reason why our Maui guy is living his best life is because he is retired. There is no pressure of dealing with work, fighting traffic, and if you are in the hospitality arena, dealing with tourists and tourism. Our economy is (unfortunately) built on tourism. Lots of people here spend their lives catering to tourists, and that can be kind of a drag. Low wages too. If you are well off without money worries you're in a great place to live, with excellent weather and beautiful beaches. The people here are nice (yes, 95% of them really are) and it's just a great lifestyle.

Many people come here and then leave within a year. Why?

*The #1 reason is that they don't have the backup resources to be able to stay if things don't work out job or money-wise. It's important to have about 6 months of 'what if' funds on hand in case you can't find work, or if the cost of living begins to be too much.

*The #2 reason is they come with the attitude that they are going to fix what is wrong with the way things are done here. It's not going to happen and worse, people will resent you for thinking you're better and smarter than they are. Maybe you are smarter but you still might go home angry about your time here.

As you said, 'Every place has its drawbacks' and Hawaii does have some. There is a meth problem, the cost of living is ridiculous, a shitty house in Kailua costs a million bucks, the traffic is often terrible (on Oahu anyways), not only is traffic awful the drivers are often awful, gas costs $5+ a gallon ... I could go on and on but you get the picture. However, if you're here, retired with a decent income, it's a great place to live out your final years on this crazy mudball called earth.

I have spent some time on the big island. The place is incredible. The geography the ocean the Natural environment, Amazing. But the culture, don't go for the culture. I prefer Mexico for culture any day.. Island fever sets in and after two months it is time to go. Even many of the local kids move to L.A. Locals are both kind and generous but some are aweful nasty and violent and cracked out. It's your fault they are poor and pissed off. I'd go back for the place though. Helps allot to have a heap of cash to blow. Its hot as hell on the desert side during the day.There are Millipedes the size of a large sausage running around at night. Most terrifying insect i have ever seen.

Thank you for your kind words, R56. Your words are spot-on, and I completely agree that it's a different world to be working here (multiple jobs, side hustle, etc) and dealing with tourists all the time.

I do my best to avoid the tourists (it helps to live at least few blocks from any sort of vacation rental, condo, etc). I run my errands early in the day; my husband and I have what we call "linner"--which is both a very late lunch or a very early dinner. We avoid crowds that way, and manage to go out several times a month.

My husband misses the "hustle and bustle" of a city, so we fly over to Honolulu every 4-6 weeks. We stay for a few days, and that is enough for him, and more than enough for me.

We package our mainland (I now call it "lameland") trips so that we get a lot of stuff out of the way on one visit (relatives, friends, cities we miss, primarily New Orleans), as it feels like such a hike to fly all that way. I flew way too much during my career, and travel has changed so much in recent years, I honestly just prefer to stay home.

Hawaiians need to thank all the tourists that they even have a job and can eat.

Just like how all homeless peeps need to be grateful that they are homeless. What a fucking goof.

Sure!!

What’s the cheapest that a simple but updated three bedroom home cost? Does cost vary by island?

To the poster who watches sunsets with neighbors, are you in a house? May I ask roughly what you paid? Don’t worry, I can’t move there, I’m just incredibly curious.

I've never heard of Japanese or any other east Asian person pretending to be native Hawaiian. The phenotype is very different. There are lots of mixed-race people in a place like Hawaii. So, it's possible that these Japanese-appearing people are, actually, mixed-race (with Hawaiian in the mix).

[quote]What’s the cheapest that a simple but updated three bedroom home cost? Does cost vary by island? To the poster who watches sunsets with neighbors, are you in a house? May I ask roughly what you paid? Don’t worry, I can’t move there, I’m just incredibly curious.

Houses here are quite expensive...the median price of a single-family home (on Oahu and Maui) hovers at about the $1 million mark. The Big Island is cheaper $600-700K is about the median for a single-family home. The nice guy from Oahu who has posted here can correct me if I'm wrong.

Prices increased markedly during covid (many buyers thought, if I can work from home, why don't I move someplace I like?) but have moderated (down 10-20%) in the past year or so. Still high.

Husband's and my house was a relative bargain for Maui...we paid just over $1.3 million for a freestanding, four-bedroom, four-bath house less than half a mile from the beach. It has views of the Pacific and of Haleakala. Over our first two years here, we undertook many renovations and added a pool (combined cost for all that was close to $1 million more).

But we know our house is worth more than what we have in it, and we own it outright. It's our only home...and our vacation home at the same time.

On the plus side, we have no electric bills to speak of (52 solar panels are a gift that keeps on giving), and our property taxes are 95% less than when we lived in Texas (we're on the hook for a grand total of about $1,200 for the full year).

In retirement, our two largest expenses each year were Texas property taxes and travel to Hawaii. We've minimized both of those, so our ongoing spend isn't so much. It turned out to be a wise financial move. We are happy to cook at home, and to enjoy the outdoors as our recreation/socializing.

Sorry for being so long-winded. I hope this helps.

Where did you live in TX where RE taxes were the biggest expense? They are nothing compared to suburban NY. And if you have a $2 million house, I can’t imagine $20k of RE taxes was a big deal.

I love Hawaii but have learned I can’t ever move to a remote place full time - no matter how beautiful, the remoteness is isolating and socially unhealthy (for me). I prefer a city with a weekend place

A million 5 for a 3 bedroom 2 bath house.

[quote]Where did you live in TX where RE taxes were the biggest expense? They are nothing compared to suburban NY. And if you have a $2 million house, I can’t imagine $20k of RE taxes was a big deal.

We lived in Houston. Property taxes on our home there (about $2 million in value) were nearly $40,000 per year, with no sign of letting up. They talk about "property tax relief" in Texas and I just laugh. They also brag about their lack of a state income tax, but they get their pound of flesh one way or another. So that's not chump change.

Also, the condo we rented on Maui before we moved here (granted, it was next to the beach, but not huge at 900 square feet and not really all that updated) rented for $1,600 per night, with no discount for a stay of multiple weeks. I am sure we could have found lodging cheaper than that, but it was our big splurge, and we had to get away from Texas for a while.

So you can see that our ongoing costs are significantly lower just living here full-time. Not to mention that we enjoy it, don't have kids, don't particularly love our nieces and nephews ("they don't call, they don't write...") so we don't need to leave a huge estate.

$48k/mo to rent a 900sqft condo? People have lost their goddamn minds.

It'd be an amazing place to live if you want a quiet life and are well funded. Probably a retiree. There's a reason why many young people leave. A lot of native people now live in Vegas because they can't afford to live to that standard in their own land.

That R69, and they are already used to very warm weather. People from Hawaii are gambling addicts. Always have been. They advertise special rates, junkets and the like here in Hawaii all the time. There are hotels dedicated to the Hawaii gamblers, and believe it, those addicts fly in in droves every day. They can't get enough of Vegas. It doesn't have anything more than that to do with all the people that move to Las Vegas. Well, the cost of living is much lower and there are those all U can eat buffets everywhere. I guess many of those plus-size local people love that shit too.

Enjoy poi!

Living on a small, isolated island far from everything else seems like torture not paradise.

Have known over a dozen friends and/or colleagues, a landlord, and a brother-in-law, who grew up in the Hawaiian Islands (most from Honolulu, three from The Big Island) who moved to the Mainland. The majority are of Japanese descent (some mixed with Portuguese and/or Polynesian), followed by Chinese, and Filipino, and one White chick, all of us now older (50's and 60's). I'm in the SF Bay Area. ALL of my friends who grew up there said that while they moved to the Mainland for educational and professional opportunities, it was "Island Fever" that kept them from returning there to live. "Island Fever" being a closed community, small-town mentality/ignorance, everyone in your business, not much to do, etc.. It will be interesting to see whether some will return for retirement, when career opportunities and big city excitement is less relevant.

Except for difficulty with healthcare access, it seems like a lovely place for retirement -- if you can afford it. I've read multiple articles about anti-Haole sentiment. If my husband and I were to retire to a small, picturesque town in Oregon, we'd probably get similar treatment as Liberal Californian Invaders. Funny thing is that Oregonians and Hawaiians alike are so laid-back and surrounded by beauty that they can't really muster up that much hate towards newcomers.

My friends has been living on Maui for a few years now. They love it. And their pictures are gorgeous. They haven't experienced anything unwelcoming toward them and they are white. He seems pretty into respecting the local culture. Mostly he just works and gets high with his dog though.

*

My partner and I moved to Honolulu from the midwest back in 1994. We are both white and I was transferred from a major telecommunications company and he was a chef. There was absolutely no discrimination or unwelcome behavior. We did respect their culture and beliefs. I actually worked with an amazing diverse workforce and I did have some difficulty with some employees, for the most part it was an incredible experience . It just really got too expensive to stay there and we really got "rock fever" after 4 years. Moved back to the midwest.

R63 there are plenty native Japanese people in Hawaii, since the mid 20th century. Maybe even farther back. Generations of them.

I know more Japanese Hawaiian people than indigenous Hawaiians.

Californian here, and I’ve only visited once (Big Island). I have two brothers who lived on Maui for several years. I got some “go home” shouts from cars as I was running/walking (fitness) through commercial areas, but none of it seemed racially based. Same for my brothers. I had a Caucasian friend with a big mouth who was nearly beaten to death for running his drunken mouth after the bars closed several years ago on the Big Island. I had a great vacation, and would return, but would not stay longer than a week on any island other than Oahu (too slow). There was big news story on Maui a couple months ago when two Hawaiians were sentenced to prison time (with hate crime enhancement) after a White guy bought a house in their Hawaiian neighborhood. The two Hawaiian guys almost killed him. He sold the house and moved to Puerto Rico. Racial animus is real there.

Maui guy here. I received my medical marijuana permit this week. I only submitted my application last Thursday; my doctor approved it online on Friday; and the Hawaii Department of Health emailed me a downloadable permit on Monday. Off to the dispensary tomorrow.

This thought occurred to me because of R74's comment about his Maui friend smoking weed here.

The environment is welcoming with respect to pot. Not at all so with tobacco smoke.

I remember being in my teens and wishing I could pack up and leave Hawaii because too many people knew my business and reported back to my parents. "Jerry, I saw your kid doing (insert something bad or embarrassing) and it made life rough". I finally left for a few years but it wasn't due to rock fever. I think anyone living in a smallish town has that problem.

R16 Bet you believe in "Reparations" for nothing any of us living today had any connection with.

R81, Clearly you haven't a clue what you're talking about. The overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy was a majorly shit move. You would be wise to discover the truth about what went down. Until you do that, keep your mouth shut around anyone with even a drop of Hawaiian blood.

Someone named Jocelyn LeGarde was nominated for it but never did anything else again.

I lived nearby, OP

[quote]Except for difficulty with healthcare access, it seems like a lovely place for retirement -- if you can afford it.

My husband and I live on the Big Island (Kona) and that quote describes us perfectly. We moved from Brooklyn NY to Oahu in 2013 (Ko Olina) and lived in a nice condo for 6 years. We wanted more space and after being priced out of Oahu found a lovely house on the slopes of Mauna Loa with a pool and an acre of land. We moved in 2019. No problems with locals and sunsets here are spectacular.

Maui guy, honest question- do you own oil in Houston? It all sounds like such a dream and amazing, and totally out of touch for me- which is fine- but please tell me you owned oil or something and its not because I eat avocado toast or something.

Maui guy here. Sorry...I took a couple of days off from DL. Husband and I flew to Honolulu to attend Monday's lantern-floating ceremony. We're never been there in person....and because of covid, this is the first in-person ceremony they've had since 2019. We have a lantern reserved (free, but limited to 6,000 total), and we're looking forward to it.

I don't have oil or anything else like that. I graduated from law school 35 years ago when it was cheap--in my case, nearly free--so I didn't have any school debt. I worked my ass off--nearly ruined my marriage and my life, really--for 25 years. The only good thing about it was I made a lot of money that I didn't have time to spend. I retired--burned out--the month I turned 51.

My husband was a university professor and had great benefits (it took the Supreme Court ruling in 2015 for me to be permitted to join his health-care plan), but not great pay.

Husband and I have no family wealth...his parents didn't graduate from college, and while mine did, my mother was a housewife and my father was a university professor, which made for a decent living, but nothing "fancy," as we'd say in the Midwest. My folks did help pay for my undergraduate education--state school with in-state tuition--and lent me money for my modest living expense during law school, which I paid back to them within two years following graduation.

So compared to the hedge-fund billionaire and his actress-wife we see on the beach, we're not wealthy. But we held on to what we earned, we didn't make any outrageous purchases or investments over the years, and we don't need much now that we're here.

I just got approved for my social security retirement benefit today (early, at age 62, and my husband started his this years as well). Being gay men of our age, we never expected to live this long, so we're just taking a day at a time and enjoying life. Maui is conducive to that.

Try to get adopted by a billionaire before you move there.

r87, you inspire me. Congratulations on social security, etc.! My partner retires next month at age 65 - also a low-paid academic. Next year I'll be 62 (yeah, I'm his boytoy Twink) and will throw in the towel, too, but have savings to live on for 3 years until drawing SS at age 65. He has a state pension with healthcare benefits that will enable me to retire and be covered until Medicare kicks in. While we could probably afford a modest condo in HI, we'll be moving to "Wine Country" in N. CA to be near a major medical center, and two hours away from a huge medical center in San Francisco, as that's what's been keeping me alive. We looked at Palm Springs but were bored by the lack of water and we don't play golf. And it's too close to LA. Hawai'i was the next choice, tropical island with snorkeling, but the major and specialized medical care issue. Also fell in love with Puerto Rico, but we're not fluent in Spanish and felt it would be too hard to make connections. And, too close to Florida.

Hope you and yours thrive on Maui!

R66, 1.5M is about right for that neighborhood. Hawaii Kai, where that is located, is upscale for Oahu. Not necessarily wealthy, but upper middle-class. I think it's sad there is no yard, and no chance to put in a pool. Hawaii Kai can get very hot. We built many homes in that general area, but mostly in Koko Kai. Now that's a nice hood. Portlock is ok too but Koko Kai has great views of Diamond Head, the ocean, and sunsets.

If someone doesn't have the available cash to live a somewhat comfortable life in Hawaii then it may not be the place to try giving a go. It's just too expensive.

My aunt as a young woman went to Hawaii in the 60s which was a real exotic rare vacation back then. She then went again a few years ago and was so disappointed how so much was overbuilt and crowded. There was no longer any magic.

^^^ No mystique!

Not yet.

What are the native Hawaiian men like?

Probably just like Native Canadians.

"What are the native Hawaiian men like?"

Tall and hefty. The Big And Tall shops in Hawaii must do a lot of business.

[quote] What are the native Hawaiian men like?

Bette Midler

R16 Did that make you feel self righteous to say? That was in 1893. But keep fostering race based hate.

I left a part of myself when I left Molokai.

Several parts, actually.

I hate flying so much if I were given a first class free vacation to Hawaii I wouldn't go.

^^^ I totally get that, R100. The flights are long and painful, so I try not to do them that often.

But the reason the flights are long is that there is water--lots of water--separating you from the rest of the U.S. Living here now, I take great comfort in having so much distance from all the division, hate, and fear that blankets the mainland these days. And the time difference--Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time is five or six hours behind the East Coast, depending on daylight saving time--makes it easier not to care about stuff happening farther east.

Not to say there aren't issues in Hawaii--as I'm sure there would be anywhere--but it's far nicer than, say, Texas, or just about any red state. I'm not planning to leave, other than for the occasional visit with family.

R101 Hawaii is a different world, and it is a world away from most of the nastiness that makes a lot of the mainland USA shitty. You're correct, we do have issues here but they pale in comparison to what is happening in the lower 48.

[R50] I was reading your posts feeling weirder and weirder as your location got more specific. But it sounds like you're further south than me if you're on the border with Wailea, I'm right up the hill from The Cove. I grew up on Maui ("grew up" as in we moved here during kindergarten, but I was not BORN here, and you know the difference that makes). I left for mainland college after highschool in 2007 and moved back home right before/as the pandemic was starting in 2020. I'd already decided to move back for a bit in 2019 but yeah the timing of the pandemic ended up working out pretty well. I grew up and went to public schools upcountry, Haiku, Makawao, Pukalani. It's strange to live in Kihei now, it was always a different world and a long drive, but its really helped it feel like a new chapter on Maui instead of going backwards and getting trapped in the past. I also had TERRIBLE allergies as a kid and teen upcountry, it just rains all the time so tons of mold and mildew. Kihei can get annoyingly hot but it's one of the most predictable and tolerable weather pockets of the island. And its nice that you can always drive up in elevation to get to colder, crisp air if you want it, nothing is more than an hour or two away

It would not be s paradise for me.

The absence of much in the way of historic buildings is enough to make it a place I would hate.

The food seems utterly miserable.

The island difficulty of having everything imported at great cost and narrow variety.

The tourist luau culture of sun, sand, and surf has little appeal yet a lot of impact on the place.

I like a dramatic ocean view, but not to live with at length, if I could even afford it

Car culture (872 cars per 1000 people)

Not exactly a cultural magnet for arts and culture

Worked with a guy from New Mexico who moved to Hawaii, he was contracted to the government there. He came back to the mainland to teach our group how to terminate fiber. He worked with Federal government employees in Hawaii and he was amazed by the number of Hawaiians who had never been to the mainland. These were upper management people with advanced degrees so they obviously had the resources to travel.

He said it was typical of island people like Guam, Philippines etc that their entire social circle was extended family. He said he was invited to social gatherings since he had no family there and it was always family stuff. He loved it but he became bored with the lack of places to travel to. He took trips to other islands but to him it became monotonous except for the surfing.

To R104:

I'm on Oahu, the main island where the majority of the population lives. We have countless historical buildings. We have the only true palace in the USA from the Kingdom of Hawaii, Iolani Palace, a real Chinatown, the Aloha Tower, which was once the tallest structure in all Hawaii, lots of unique architecture, housing from the plantation era, real plantation villages that can be visited,sugar mills, military bunkers and structures from WWll, the old sections of downtown Honolulu with many historical buildings, the National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific with a beautiful monument for veterans that served and died in many wars (Punchbowl, the location of this Cemetery is an extinct volcanic crater in the center of Honolulu), The very moving USS Arizona Battleship Memorial in Pearl Harbor, Hawaiian heiaus, Sea Life Park, the best and most famous surfing spots on Earth, on other islands there are great places .. Hawaii Volcanoes National Park which is currently erupting (that's pretty damn exciting), the Captain Cook Memorial where he landed, many missions, native villages. There is a lot here., and a lot you just do not know.

The food is fabulous. Many organic farm to table restaurants thrive here. The fish is fresh and great. Our ranch raised beef is incredible. There is a cultural blending of foods from all over the Pacific basin that cannot be beat. Our foods also have a blending from Portugal and many other countries and cultures, We don't have a narrow variety of foods here. Where did you get that idea? These comments ... you're pushing it and making things up now.

Not a cultural magnet? Really? You're really saying this? It is laughable at best. You are so far off base it's pathetic.

............It would not be s paradise for me..............

Paradise can be different things to different people. It's clear it's not for you and that's ok. If you don't like Hawaii that's fine. There is no need to drag it down where it doesn't really belong though. You have me curious now. Where do you live if you don't mind sharing?

R106, I appreciate your observations, particularly about historic architecture in Hawaii. It's something I'm well acquainted with generally and have am aware of the landmarks and examples of the building types you mention.

The National Register of Historic Places lists 94,577 sites in all the U.S. states and territories. Hawaii represents just 364 of these. The exact number is not itself an absolute indicator. Sites can represent multiple buildings and historic districts (which may contain 100s of contributing structures), but Hawaii's ranking in 9th worst place, the state with the least representation of historic buildings North Dakota where history is very scarce on the ground has 451 by comparison; Delaware 696; New Mexico 1168; South Carolina 1558; Wisconsin 2478; California 2972; Pennsylvania 3424; Texas 3437; and New York 6105.

A search of residential properties of any type for sale in all of Hawaii shows just 4 current listings of >75 years of age.

There are some great historic buildings in Hawaii, I know, but the number is disappointingly small.

As for Hawaii's power as cultural draw or influence, I don't see Hawaii on anyone's international calendar of visual arts or performing arts or as a destination for popular concerts or travelling museum loan exhibitions. Maybe were talking of different things.

From your description it looks like I seriously underrated Hawaii on cuisine.

As for where I live, what does it matter? I'm from the U.S. and lived in 8 or 9 Eastern States and have worked in almost half the states, mostly concentrated in the East. Now I live in Southern Europe.

Try the pu pu platter!

Why the extreme interest in being around old/historic buildings? Go to Des Moines if you want really old buildings.

Hawaii is known as the Melting Pot of the Pacific. No offerings dedicated to culture and the arts? Luau culture? No. I've been to every state in the union except Maine. Hawaii has significantly more cultural experiences that just about every other state in the union. You're so off base you're in the outfield against the center field wall.

I have, for years With my lov...umm butler. Until he passed away few years ago. My heart still aches

[quote]I didn't say they passed, I said they claimed to be native Hawaiian

Sort of like transplants claiming to be native New Yorkers when posting on DL.

I LOVE Hawaii--Fat Drunk White Girl

Maui guy here. I got to hear Willie Nelson take the stage this past Saturday night, sing several of his most well-known songs with some local musicians, and then introduce the world premiere of the concert movie showing his 90th birthday party celebration at the Hollywood Bowl.

That was my culture for the weekend. I am grateful.

We were there for 2 weeks 2 years ago, staying outside of the Waikiki jungle- The Kahala, & it was absolutely lovely. Everyone there was so friendly & full of smiles all the time. Made friends with some of the workers who were all so nice & helpful & full of smiles & always saying Aloha. We were @ the mall close to the resort, went to Whole Foods for some room beverages/sncaks. Pushing our cart back to our car, stopped @ our car, unloaded etc. a gust of wind ended up blowing the cart into the car parked next to us, it hit the bumper & bounced off- not a scratch. I grabbed the cart as the car doors opened & 2 guys get out the car yelling "Fucking haoles, fucking faggots, you hit my fucking car" and so on beating their chests..... They clearly wanted to fight or just beat the shit out of some haoles in a parking lot. I recognized one to them, pointed & said- "you work @ the Kahala dont you". Yeah..... He shut the fuck up REAL QUICK & quickly turned on the friend act & said Im so sorry, I didnt know it was you guys, while his friend is still wanting to fight..... He calmed his friend down & said no no no, these guys are cool they are guests @ the hotel....... I glared @ him & said, "you may want to talk to your manager before we do". Saw him a few times around the resort, not knowing if he had spoken to his manager, needless to say he avoided us big time. While we were checking out, the GM came up to us & apologized profusely that we had had an interaction with one of his associates that left a stain on the resort. He comped 1/2 our stay- cut the bill in 1/2-room & food/beverage. We never talked to his manager or mentioned it to anyone @ the resort........Mahalo Kahala Resort!

Grew up there, 70's 80's & some 90's. Happy to have left, was fun to visit & be in my parents utopia. Would have liked to move back someday, but it's just not worth the $$. Mexico is calling, the natives arent as hostile.......

It's all coming into focus now. There's Luau Culture, you see...and did I mention Luau Culture?

Okole maluna R116, and that purple pudding is just divine, do have a large bowl.

I want to live there very badly, but I worry about living in such an isolated area. It is only a 5 hr flight to Los Angeles but still.

^^^ I think you're probably right, R118. Wait until you worry about living in a non-isolated area to move here, I'd suggest.

Yes. Extremely expensive - to the point where the population is actually dropping now. It's a beautiful and deeply special place but one with few economic opportunities which means it's mostly wealthy people who can move here and stay here while living comfortably.

State leadership has finally come to the realization that the cost of living here is out of control. The weepy stories on the news every once in a while of Native Hawaiians leaving because they can't afford it really brought the point home. But they don't really know what to do? The two main engines of our economy are tourism and military - both bring out a lot of resentment. The military hasn't treated the islands well and tourists, well some of them, can be annoying. The idea is now we want to be like Costa Rica - a eco-tourist mecca, sustainable tourism, or something. The one good thing the high cost of living does for Hawaii is that it prices out the worst tourist riff raff. And they said they're not going to spend money on advertisting tourism to Hawaii anymore - they only want the upper classes to visit - no more package tourists. I hope they ban cruise ships, but doubt it will happen. The telescope project could've brought a lot of jobs until it was effectively vetoed by Native Hawaiians. I don't know what the new economic avenues are for Hawaii? Nobody else seems to know either.

The weather is almost always the same - although that it's normally beautiful, negates some of the sameness. The island you are on gets claustorphobic at times, too. However, if you are content simply with gorgeous scenery, this is the place. Hawaii not only looks beautiful, it sounds beautiful, and it smells beautiful. I think the food is great. Social life revolves around the extended family so you better have one.

I've never experienced open resentment. What people think but leave unsaid - I have no idea and don't want or need to know. There's indeed now an enormous cultural and political cachet to being Native Hawaiian, even if you are just a tiny bit - and there are almost no full blooded Natives left. They are defered to, honored, and treated almost as saintly. To that point, there has undoubtedly been more and more people identifiying, especially on social media, as Native, even though they aren't. I know one person who never identified as Native Hawaiian but now does. And I don't think he actually is :( But Hawaii is extremely mixed and diverse. Some of the most notable (and extreme) advocates for Hawaiian sovereignty were half-white and had white partners (Hanuani Kay Trask), even though they effectively muted what ever European background they had. And to the person above who said a Japanese descended person could never pass as Hawaiian - well they could if they were half-white. Unlike say in California or elsehwere in the US, being Asian doesn't bring you any special status here - it's all about being Hawaiian. A few years ago a state senator criticized the artwork on display at the state legislature building. She not only didn't like the Haole (white) artists on display but she noted she also greatly disliked all the Jap and Pake (Chinese) art on display too and she used those exact words! Saying such things out loud would be shocking elsehwere but not necessarily in Hawaii.

Native history, art, and language all deserve to be taught early on here. Yet, some have tried to twist Hawaiian folklore into a kind of blood-and-soil ideology in the last decade.

Still I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

R75: Aww shucks, you beat me to it. I was gonna post the, "Honolulu", clip.

R120 Never have I heard someone that resides in Hawaii utter the word, "Jap". Fucking NEVER. That is deeply insulting. Pake, yes. Jap, no way. That has its roots in WWll.

Remember when MAMA’S FAMILY won a trip to “Huh-why-uh” (as Thelma pronounced it).

[quote]And to the person above who said a Japanese descended person could never pass as Hawaiian - well they could if they were half-white.

In 1920, 43 percent of Hawaii's population was Japanese. So descendants of those people will be at least part Japanese.

There are many people of Japanese origin on Maui. But like everyone else, they just blend into the robust mix of ethnicities that make Hawaii different from other states.

The natives hate white people.