Major Douglas Murray speech
He just made this in the UK and it's gaining traction on social media. Posted here because he's a significant cultural cultural figure, and (although it gives Millennials brain freezes) hearing alternative opinions is important, including for one's own development. My executive summary of the speech:–
Very witty opening, then methinks a wrong and fatuous error (which drives one crazy with conservatives) – the belief that the desire for social justice is driven by envy rather than a recognition of the need for such true justice. Midway in the speech, without questioning trans rights, he then sticks a simple common sense biological dagger into the heart of the gender ideology war. He then concludes with a winning point "What would we do if we were not held back", which is a variation of the life mantra "What would you do if you knew you could not fail?"
Rather than a fatuous crossing out, it would be good to see a reasoned analysis, or takedown if you will, of his principal arguments.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||May 24, 2023 1:50 PM
can't click on it - nothing happens - how can that be?
|by Anonymous||reply 1||May 17, 2023 9:38 AM
Try this link. Forgot to say for those not aware of him, that he is of course gay, so we need to keep tabs on the brothers.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||May 17, 2023 9:42 AM
[quote]Forgot to say for those not aware of him, that he is of course gay,
Most people here know who he is and that he's gay. The gurls don't like him very much.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||May 17, 2023 9:45 AM
[quote] he's a significant cultural cultural figure
So significant that he gets two cultures! How meta.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||May 17, 2023 9:45 AM
R3 The girls are so narrow minded and zealous that they make the Puritans blush.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||May 17, 2023 9:47 AM
[quote]The gurls don't like him very much.
Noted. He's always been measured in his speech, but here seems measured AND smug. I hope fame isn't going to his head, because the culture needs incisive thinkers across the spectrum.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||May 17, 2023 9:51 AM
Forgot to add: Gore Vidal was never not smug, and it didn't affect his intellect, so maybe the charge is irrelevant.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||May 17, 2023 9:53 AM
[quote]but here seems measured AND smug.
[quote]I hope fame isn't going to his head,
You hope in vain.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||May 17, 2023 10:05 AM
He has a very vociferous fanbase.
"If Douglas Murray is speaking, then I am listening."
"The speech is utterly brilliant..and utterly Spot on…I believe every word…Brilliant Murray"
They leave comments like those - then dozens and dozens arrive to thumbs up and leave "I agree" comments.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||May 17, 2023 10:09 AM
Very slow and draggy delivery.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||May 17, 2023 10:12 AM
One can’t possibly talk about Douglas without mentioning his hunky fellow conservative-adjacent dudebro podcaster, Chris @chriswillx
|by Anonymous||reply 11||May 17, 2023 1:39 PM
Okay, one more Mr Chris Williamson and I won’t highjack this thread
|by Anonymous||reply 12||May 17, 2023 1:41 PM
Chris is clearly in love with his own face. When you watch him on YouTube you can see him gazing and his face and widening his eyes and he drinks himself in. I can’t watch him.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||May 17, 2023 1:55 PM
[quote]When you watch him on YouTube you can see him gazing and his face and widening his eyes and he drinks himself in.
Oh how I hate that sort of thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||May 17, 2023 3:38 PM
I've just seen that the plenary speech at this conference was Faith Family Flag.
I think there's a missing F there. Perhaps two. Fuhrer and Fucked.
Wouldn't it be lovely if neither end of politics fell into strident certainly it had all the answers!
|by Anonymous||reply 16||May 17, 2023 4:24 PM
Murray's speech was actually promoted by the organisation running the conference with Murray's quote about Germany "mucking it up twice" in reference to WW1 and WW2. Naturally it didn't go down well with British Jews and countless others. I get that he was being flippant but for fucks sake.
Conservative Nationalism or National Conservatism whatever it's called seems to be at odds with the secular liberal small state conservative policies we've had in Britain for generations now which saw a serial adulterer elected as Tory leader followed (after LT) by a British Asian Hindu.
There are some batshit loons in the Tory party.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||May 17, 2023 4:36 PM
I refuse to pollute my brain with conservative garbage.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||May 17, 2023 4:41 PM
Fuck off, alt right trolls. This thread will be handy for F&Fing you so that Muriel can do her house cleaning.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||May 17, 2023 4:51 PM
[quote] Posted here because he's a significant cultural cultural figure, and (although it gives Millennials brain freezes) hearing alternative opinions
You mean liberals, not Millennials.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||May 17, 2023 5:14 PM
R20, I suspect Murray's concept of liberalism is the European one which is different than the current U.S. usage of the term.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||May 17, 2023 5:28 PM
And I thought he was still Sergeant Murray.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||May 17, 2023 7:28 PM
Fools like R19 think they're champions of democracy, whereas they're its worst enemies. Because a healthy democracy requires recognising the legitimacy of both sides. Part of the reason for the present convulsive state of politics is because both sides have become so polarised they're screaming at each other with their hands over their ears.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||May 19, 2023 2:44 PM
Your championing a speaker at the joke National Conservatism conference? Oh boy.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||May 19, 2023 3:30 PM
So disgusting that someone is promoting the far right like Murray here. He doesn't even have any charisma although the Spectator and GB News loyally promote him, of course. F&F.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||May 19, 2023 3:40 PM
He always comes across as a smug dickhead to me.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||May 19, 2023 3:40 PM
From his wikipedia thread:
[quote]A number of academic and journalistic sources have linked Murray's ideology and political views to the far right, the alt-right, the Islamophobic right or some combination thereof. Murray has also been accused of being xenophobic, chauvinist and racist, while he is regarded by others as "a great defender of free speech". Critics accuse Murray of promoting far-right conspiracy theories, including the Great Replacement theory, the Eurabia conspiracy theory and the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory. However, he has indicated that he dislikes the term "Cultural Marxism".
|by Anonymous||reply 28||May 19, 2023 3:56 PM
[quote]Rather than a fatuous crossing out, it would be good to see a reasoned analysis, or takedown if you will, of his principal arguments.
[bold]DEBATE MEEE! DEBATE MEEE! DEBATE MEE![/bold]
You Tory cunts can all just fuck off into the sun.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||May 19, 2023 4:26 PM
[quote]Because a healthy democracy requires recognising the legitimacy of both sides.
Really, R23? So to you, democracy is one side telling the other side they have no right to exist? Really? That's democracy?
|by Anonymous||reply 30||May 19, 2023 4:44 PM
Douglas Murray and Owen Jones are right/left versions of each other, except Douglas has more of a sense of humour about himself and is a lot more self aware.
Murray has been mostly incorrect about many of his observations but he is correct on his assessment on aspects of Islam and what is essentially a deeply conservative and intolerant strand that goes unchallenged by the left.
This is best demonstrated by Owen Jones and his coverage of the Batley and Spen by election in 2021 where Jones giggled his way through an interview with Putin sympathiser George Galloway who was courting Muslim votes. The Labour candidate was Kim Leadbeater, a lesbian who effectively returned to the closet for the election, the sister of Jo Cox MP who was murdered in 2016. Owen Jones was clearly upset that Labour won.
When a Labour insider said that Galloway was courting the Muslim vote (he'd been giving speeches in mosques about kids being taught about anal sex in schools) Owen Jones was furious that muslims were being smeared as homophobic.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||May 19, 2023 5:31 PM
[quote]I suspect Murray's concept of liberalism is the European one which is different than the current U.S. usage of the term.
It’s not. He’s on American shows all the time including Bill Maher. He hates some culture with a passion and destroys it bit by bit exposing the ignorance of the left when it comes to history.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||May 19, 2023 5:44 PM
Douglas is called far-Right because he calls out Islam as being homophobic and misogynist.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||May 19, 2023 5:45 PM
It's funny to see him ask what could we all be doing if the Left weren't holding us back? Maybe this is actually a big difference between the UK and the US, but here in the US the obvious question is what could we be doing if conservative morons weren't constantly dragging us all back down to the bottom of the barrel?
Addressing climate change. Shriek! Howl! Darwin is evil! Genesis! Jeebus! Environmentalists are of the Devil! Science upsets me!
National Health Care. Shriek! Howl! Communism! Poor people just gotta die cause God Wills It! Negroes!!!
Poverty. Didn't you hear me before? NEGROES!!!! They're poor cause they're poor and any attempt to do something about it overturns God's law and pisses off white people!
People's sex lives. Leviticus! Will of Gawwddd! Noooooo!!!! Punish that bitch with a baby!
Guns. Oh fucking Christ. The shrieking and howling about ma gun, mah gun, my motherfucking gun!!!! can be heard on Mars.
And on and on and on. Nobody on the modern right, at least nobody in office or with a real following, has an intelligent answer to a real-world problem. Absolutely nobody. In the U.S. Again, this may be different in the U.K., where things like national health care are at least already in place and generally accepted.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||May 19, 2023 6:22 PM
Douglas gets called a "cis white straight man" by a Yassss Kween British comic. The same Kween who, just before that, states on camera that he'd willingly have sex with Sam Smith.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||May 23, 2023 7:59 PM
Culture wars aren't won by speeches, OP. If they were, we'd never get Trump in the first place because we all know how much Obama loved his speeches.
Both sides are preaching to their own choir, now it's only a matter of pure numbers and those numbers getting translated into political will. You know, democracy stuff.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||May 23, 2023 8:18 PM
I wonder when he'll do the fashionable gay English conservative thing and convert to Catholicism.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||May 23, 2023 8:20 PM
With a name like Douglas Murray I should think he's Scottish.
[quote]I wonder when he'll do the fashionable gay English conservative thing and convert to Catholicism.
I did that. I didn't know it was fashionable.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||May 23, 2023 8:23 PM
[quote] I did that. I didn't know it was fashionable.
You did? Really? Are you still gay? Is it some big torment or can you still have fun with it?
Okay, I'm not entirely sure about the fashionable, although I still picture gay Tories all gathering once a year at Brideshead to toast Sebastian.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||May 23, 2023 8:35 PM
[quote]You did? Really? Are you still gay?
yes. yes and yes.
[quote] Is it some big torment or can you still have fun with it?
have fun with what?
|by Anonymous||reply 40||May 23, 2023 8:41 PM
Oh, good lord.
TFN, OP. We've heard this cant before and it didn't play to sensible people then.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||May 23, 2023 8:44 PM
Have fun having sex with guys, or is it some grim cross to bear and some "occasion of sin" to be avoided? Basically, are you okay being gay or is it some terrible problem to be solved or endured?
|by Anonymous||reply 42||May 23, 2023 8:44 PM
oops, somebody slipped in. that was for r40.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||May 23, 2023 8:45 PM
You have a very bizarre idea of what becoming a Catholic entails. Really dark and horrid. I came/come to the religion on my own terms. I didn't throw my keys at the church.
If you think Jesus was anti-gay you've been indoctrinated. It's totally absurd.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||May 23, 2023 8:51 PM
Nor was his Mom - for God's sake! (I'm sure you know us Catholics, unlike the protestants, are very into his Mom and pray to her often).
|by Anonymous||reply 45||May 23, 2023 8:54 PM
Well, that's fine r44, if you are a happy gay Catholic. If that works for you, that is great. It is not entirely absurd however to wonder if converting to a religion that has preached for many, many centuries that homosexuality is a terrible sin might affect the life of a gay man. That is not a dark and horrid thought. That is historical reality. Nevertheless if you don't feel the slightest tension about that, well, good for you. And I mean that.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||May 23, 2023 8:55 PM
Gotta laugh at Christian conservatives saying they support "common sense"
Dude, you morons believe in virgin birth.
You think drag queens are a threat to kids, but not the thousands upon thousands of clergy members who have actually molested kids.
Republicans chose a serial child molester to be Speaker of the House.
Fuck off with your "common sense" you brainwashed self-loathers
Oh, and you elected a vice president who thinks homosexuality can be cured through prayer
|by Anonymous||reply 47||May 23, 2023 8:58 PM
Fuck off, right-wing assholes
|by Anonymous||reply 48||May 23, 2023 9:00 PM
[quote]Nevertheless if you don't feel the slightest tension about that, well, good for you. And I mean that.
No. Not the slightest.
The church has never and will never wag its finger at me.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||May 23, 2023 9:01 PM
R47 have you one original thought in your head? You just spew that same old muck all over the place. Tuffgurl!
|by Anonymous||reply 51||May 23, 2023 9:03 PM
Douglas Murray is lucky Christopher Hitchens is dead. Murray is a pale imitation with a generous sprinkling of right wing talking points to make it more palatable to the less intelligent on the right.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||May 23, 2023 9:50 PM
I like watching him. He’s hot, smart and has a sexy voice.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||May 24, 2023 1:33 PM
You think Hitchens wouldn't be calling out all this bullshit we have to put up with today from the far left?
|by Anonymous||reply 54||May 24, 2023 1:33 PM
R54, I’m not sure exactly what Hitchens would find fault with and what he wouldn’t, he could be surprising in what drew his ire, but I am sure he would not be doing it in such an artless way as Murray. Murray isn’t anyone’s great rhetorician and generally I find his fans to be the same group who think portmanteau is witty and that anyone who’s managed to master received pronunciation is an intellectual.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||May 24, 2023 1:50 PM