Double Indemnity - classic noir starring Barbara Stanwyck

No fans?

I think we're still trying to recover from someone with bad taste saying Stanwyck should have been replaced by Joan Crawford, who was at that time in the height of her man-hair fright wig, Clow lips, and inch-thick eyebrow stage.

Joan in the 40s

Barbara lost the Oscar to Joan!

R4. No, she didn’t. “Mildred Pierce” was the next year. Stanwyck list to Bergman for “Gaslight.”

Based on the true murder of Albert Snyder by his wife Ruth and her lover. Ruth was some piece of work—-she had tried to kill Albert several times on her own by various poisons and gas before roping her lover into the scheme.

They bludgeoned him, tied a garrote around his neck and suffocated him with a chloroform cloth stuffed in his mouth. Then the lover Judd Gray tied up Ruth to make it look like a burglary. Cops doubted the story immediately. Circus-like trial was followed with both Ruth and Grey electrocuted at Sing Sing on the same day. Their executioner had a nervous breakdown the next day; racked with guilt for putting a woman to death.

I didn't know about the Snyder case, thanks R6

I LOVE this movie and I try to watch it once a year. This is the movie Body Heat is based on. Edward G. Robinson killed it in this movie.

I wanted to have sex with that horny wise ass Nef, even if he was a chain smoker

Has anyone read the novella? Does Nef fuck her before killing her husband or is it just an implied offer of pussy?

Big fan of this pic - Stanwyck so beautiful, and she and Fred MacMurray play off of one another so skillfully.

Stanwyck and MacMurray did a series of movies together - every one of them highly entertaining.

R11 my problem was that I didn't think she was alluring here at all, she resembled an aged Nellie Olsen. It was also inconceivable that a man of the world like Walter Nef would so easily fall for her, especially with her younger and much prettier stepdaughter around to tantalise his todger.

R5 That's funny because Stanwyck later did a parody of Gaslight on the Jack Benny TV show. Wonder if she was getting back at Ingrid?

OP too bad you were unimpressed by this brilliant movie and also thought Stanwyck was miscast. Naturally, she was cast against type, but not miscast. MacMurray and Stanwyck are both perfect and Edward G. Robinson rounds out thew cast, he's fantastic.

The old-time LA atmosphere is well captured. (I'm not sure if the film is supposed to take place earlier - I suspect it is - because it was wartime when the film was made, and the war is never mentioned, nor do we see any servicemen.)

Raymond Chandler co-wrote it and he makes a cameo sitting outside either Neff's or Keyes's office. He and Wilder didn't hit it off.

R2 Joan was hot in the 40s. What are you on about?

I didn't like Stanwyck's long blonde hair in this movie. But I loved the movie.

R13 so in thinking about it I did enjoy it, I just think it's been copied so many times it felt predictable and tame in comparison, but in recognising it as the first of a new wave I fully respect it as a groundbreaking classic.

While Barbara was good I just wasn't convinced by Nef suddenly falling for her. I can more readily buy he wanted to bed her and take half the insurance money but not that he'd fallen in love with her. He seemed to worldly and cynical for that

Too*

I love me some Missy.

OP, it's a perfect film, even if you seemed to hope for more novelty or unexpected plot surprises.

Apparently seeing a perfect film somehow is not novel enough for you.

Interesting.

IMO Ned Racine in Body Heat was a better version of the Nef character. But I was never a Fred Mac Murray fan. He was OK.

R19 I'm saying the experience of this as a classic is slightly obscured by all the copies of it over the years

R16 He was hooked on her. She entrapped him, she was a sociopath who felt nothing. I don't think it was about falling in love, in a wholesome way. It was more like a combination of strong emotions that couldn't easily be defined as one thing, love, desire, sexual attraction, whatever. She was a classic film noir or James M. Cain femme fatale.

When I watch a film like this I immediately know where the guy is coming from because I've felt instantly attracted to people, sometimes people who are seductive or obvious, and I've been obvious, myself. Instant attraction. Hopefully you make a substitution when watching a film and start to identify with the protagonist. But if you don't get why he was suddenly smitten with her you probably have never been in his position. You wouldn't "live" the film with the actors and would just be observing things happening in a surface sort of way.

[quote][R11] my problem was that I didn't think she was alluring here at all,

That’s not your problem, dearheart.

R24 you're right, it's the movie's for not casting a beautiful leading lady

She's an ex-nurse and a bored housewife married to a jerk, with a grown stepdaughter, living in Los Feliz. He's a wise-ass insurance salesman. Both actors are quite attractive but why would you expect "beautiful"? The stars are probably way better looking than these people would actually be in real life.

I expect her to be beautiful as she managed to seduce a worldly and handsome man into murdering her husband and defrauding his employer within two meetings and without even offering him a blowjob for his trouble. This is Hollywood, not real life. I just don't buy that someone who looks like Anne Heche in a tatty wig could pull it off

R27 Ok I was trying not to say it but you're dumb.

Another Stanwyck noir, "The File On Thelma Jordon" on TCM's Noir Alley this morning.

[quote]Does Nef fuck her before killing her husband or is it just an implied offer of pussy?

The book is not the companion to the movie. Each is told separately.

This was post-code Hollywood, so no allusion to sex was permitted. It’s implied that she was polishing his knob and letting him into her tunnel of love, of course.

They're just good friends. Very very very very good.

R28 now this is a lusty vixen who could believably have a man kill her husband and dump him in Niagara falls

Ingrid Bergman. Now THERE's a real femme fatale.

Barbara was perfect in this movie. She was better than Ingrid, but her character was so unsympathetic, and she didn’t have a long term contract with Paramount which cost her.

Missy's blonde wig was not at all flattering.

R35, I've seen better looking wigs in the Halloween costume aisle at CVS.

Billy Wilder chose the wig to make Phyllis look cheap and tawdry. And Barbara hated dying her hair. She did it for BABY FACE and STELLA DALLAS. So they decided on the wig.

R34 Well, Ingrid was great in Gaslight. I just was disagreeing with OP that she would have been better than Stanwyck in Double Indemnity.

She was in less than 40 minutes of Double Indemnity, should have been nominated for Best Supporting Actress. Her performance was good with precisely two great scenes (the reaction when Nef is strangling her husband beside her as she drives and her last scene where she breaks down). She was lucky to be nominated in Lead.

Sorry I meant her performance overall was good, with two great scenes.

I saw it a few months ago on the Criterion Channel. Fred McMurray stole the show…the only thing I remember about Barbara Stanwyck was her wearing sunglasses in a grocery store.

Who played the female lead in Double Indemnity? Barbara Stanwyck. Not supporting.

And guess what, William Holden was in Sunset Boulevard for a lot more of the running time than Gloria Swanson. Does that make her a supporting player?

Nef & Keyes and the standouts of the movie, Phyllis is just the catalyst for the action

R3 even the filename tells you this is 1936 Joan, NOT from the 1940s. But you can at first glance.

R42 the difference is Gloria gave a standout performance in SB and is highly memorable. Stanny is memorable only in her last scene where she admits her plan and starts to cry.

R44 Joan only got more beautiful with age

Vivien Leigh would have been a great Phyllis

R45 Ok, I totally disagree. To me it's not a question of memorable scenes, it's the whole performance of a character. No need to go into it further. An unmemorable performance to one person is memorable to another person.

Well, she sure wasn't a Sally, r47...

Billy Wilder sounds like a Datalounger when "Double Indemnity" lost at The Oscars!

"As the awards show wore on and Double Indemnity lost in category after category, it became evident that there would be a Going My Way sweep. McCarey beamed as his picture won award after award, and when he was named Best Director, Wilder could no longer take it. When McCarey made his way to the stage to accept the award for best picture, Wilder, sitting on the aisle, stuck out his foot and tripped him. "Mr. McCarey ... stumbled perceptibly," he gleefully recalled. After the ceremony while he and his wife Judith were waiting for his limousine to arrive, he yelled so loudly that everybody could hear him: "What the hell does the Academy Award mean, for God's sake? After all – Luise Rainer won it two times. Luise Rainer!"

It’s called chemistry, r27. What attracts us isn’t always based on physical appearance. Some people who might be considered plain, or borderline ugly, possess a potent magnetism that is almost impossible to resist. In other words, they are extremely fuckable.

R27 is another one of those gays who thinks women are porn queens with Golden Girls wit.

[quote]Vivien Leigh would have been a great Phyllis

How about Vivian Vance?

Had never heard that back story, R6! Thank you!!!

R29, I know this is about Double Indemnity but Thelma Jordan is really good with Lizabeth Scott and a young Kirk Douglas. Anything with both Missy and Liz has to be great.

R52 no I don't at all, I just think that the role called for a beautiful and alluring woman who can transfix a man with her come hither charms

Fred MacMurray was coming off the flop "Above Suspicion" with Joan Crawford. I doubt anyone was looking to team them together again so soon.

/My bad, I was thinking about Strange Love of Martha Ivers

R58 Yeah, The File On Thelma Jordon co-stars Missy with Wendell Corey.

R56 Jesus CHRIST. The picture that was posted in the white sweater was fucking hot. So is the one on this page. Barbara Stanwyck knew how to be alluring.

Wohl-tah...

R56, don't you mean SNAG a man? Men - straight men - are very easy, Rose. "Beautiful and alluring" the way you describe looks like cookie-cutter female some gay men think is necessary to "trap" a man.

Interesting, I read for years and years in the 1970s-80s that DL fave Miss Barbra Streisand was interested in making a movie about Ruth Snyder (see R6).

R27, Wilder clearly telegraphs that they’re fucking: there’s a scene in Walter’s apartment where Phyllis adjusts her skirt, implying she’s just finished getting dressed. She casually sits in the sofa on a way that shows us she’s been there before.

And their fucking is pretty extreme. The first thing he notices about her is how the strap from her fetish footwear cuts into her ankle; the last image of her face shows how aroused she is when she’s on the verge of being killed. He doesn’t love her because she’s beautiful—he loves her because she’s evil.

But Nef considered her beautiful, r56. Which is the only point of view that counts. He didn’t consider her cheap. A tad tawdry perhaps but that was part of her appeal. Made her seem attainable which meant he had a real shot. If she had been a true snooty rich bitch he wouldn’t have had a chance. Wouldn’t have even tried. She was a pro at setting the trap with just enough bait to lure him in and keep him interested. But to get him to kill for her she had to give up the goods at some point. No man is going to the chair for the possiblity of getting pussy. That shit had to be KILLER to turn him into an actual killer.

Really enjoyed your post, r64. Love can make you do crazy things but lust can make you lose your mind.

[quote]Vivien Leigh would have been a great Phyllis

Vivien would make a fascinating femme fatale but she does not really belong in the film noir universe. Phyllis Dietrichson is an evil broad in a cheap wig and an ankle bracelet. Vivien can do many things-- tragic, romantic, crazy-- but not sleazy.

R67 Viv was pretty sleazy in real life

R68, She loved cruising for dick.

Barbara Payton she was *not*.

Edward G. Robinson with his hammy characterization was the guy who stole the show for me. I loved him.

Joan Crawford was a godawful actress in everything but The Women and Baby Jane. The reason she retains her high profile compared to her peers today is SOLELY due to her camp value tied mostly to Mommie Dearest. She was barely passable in Mildred Pierce, for fuck’s sake, she was overshadowed by the rest of the expert cast. Stanwyck would have really owned that role.

Ingrid Bergman was a good actress but could never play full on femme fatale like Stanwyck could.

Stanwyck was a good looking woman. She wasn’t some overdone glamour girl, but she was sexy and attractive. Certainly better looking than Bette Davis, who played outright textual beauties.

Speaking of Mildred Pierce, wouldn't it have been interesting to cast the guy who played Wally Faye in Mildred Pierce in the Fred MacMurray role in Double Indemnity? Jack Carson .

Barbara’s casting is half of what makes this film so so great! OP, you’re dumb.

Ann Blyth stole MP from Crawford. Crawford was much better in HUMORESQUE, POSSESSED AND DAISY KENYON. MP is a decent film but a tad overrated.

She's about to flash her growler at him. She was the OG Catherine Trammell

R71 he totally deserved a Oscar nomination

Okay, she was also good in Daisy Kenyon. Humoresque is so, so overwrought (even more than the usual Golden Age films) I can't take it seriously.

Barbara was excellent in that movie. The casting of Fred McMurray was also excellent. They both played against type and were unbelievably sexual. Edward G had the best dialogue, very funny. I don't know whether he was adding to the tension or trying to relieve it for the audience. Great film.

If Barbara had been nominated in supporting could she have beaten Ethel Barrymore?

Fred MacMurray is underrated on the DL. Every thread I've seen about classic film stars has people bashing him, but I think he was a great actor with a lot of range (like Stanwyck, he easily moved from screwballs to noir to melodrama, etc.), and a very sexy man.

I love HUMORESQUE. Okay so it’s overwrought and some of the dialogue is cornball but that’s what makes it work for me.

The fact that Stanwyck, while attractive enough, was no Hedy Lamarr is what makes it so believable. She’s just attractive enough to get MacMurray’s attention. The rest of it is up to her character manipulating him to do her bidding.

I thought I read double anal in a double bed?

Joan is wonderful in Grand Hotel and she isn't bad in Rain. But, *yet again*, Joan did Movie Star Acting. She never disappears in a role, her mere presence grabs focus. Bette was the Actress, Joan was the Movie Star. Redford did Movie Star Acting.

[quote]Fred MacMurray is underrated on the DL... I think he was a great actor with a lot of range...and a very sexy man.

I'm guessing you never saw him on the My Three Sons TV series. That was my introduction, he was a real boring fuddy duddy.

It's a bit silly that he didn't try to bed Lola instead of the old frump in the drugstore wig

If I was Lola I would have blown Nef's mushroom cock while he gave me a lift to town

I always had issues with that blond wig but the movie is incredible. I was lucky to see an original nitrate print of DI once at UCLA. They have never been able to match the look of that, not even in 4K with all the technology. There's a moment at the end when she lights a cigarette in the dark and illuminates her face, and that shimmering moment printed on silver nitrate blows away every other black and white film I ever saw. Hard to describe but it glowed.

Yes, I didn't grow up with him as the dad on My Three Sons and that might be the reason his image has been mostly tied to the movies I've seen him - Double Indemnity, Remember the Night, Hands Across the Table, The Caine Mutiny, True Confession and There's Always Tomorrow are my favorites. He was wonderful with both Barbara Stanwyck and Carole Lombard, who were both tough gals who weren't afraid to get as outrageous as the men in the films.

R84 I'm fine with some movie star actors - Marlene Dietrich is one I absolutely love, and most golden age stars employed it to some degree, even Bette in many of her roles - but something about most of Joan's acting is so labored and artificial while being completely earnest from her end of the bargain, which makes for incredible camp but mostly bad acting. Rain is fascinating. I can't tell if she's good or bad in it, opposite Walter Huston, who is one of the greatest (mostly forgotten compared to his kids and grandkids, sadly) character actors of the Golden Age and he is giving a very fine and honest performance. I remember reading Bette very much wanted to play Sadie Thompson in the late 30s/early 40s.

R12, have you ever seen The Music Man? If so, do you remember the song “Sadder but Wiser”?

Apparently, Walter Neff and Harold Hill felt the same way about women.

R81, I agree. MacMurray was hot as a firecracker in his earlier days. Two movies of his that I like and where he’s quite sexy are No Time for Love (1943) with Claudette Colbert and Too Many Husbands (1940) with Jean Arthur and Melvyn Douglas (who’s handsome in his own, much more suave, way).

Here's shirtless Fred with Claudette.

[quote]I remember reading Bette very much wanted to play Sadie Thompson in the late 30s/early 40s.

She got her chance, r89...

[quote]Marlene Dietrich is one I absolutely love

r89...

[quote] If I was Lola I would have blown Nef's mushroom cock while he gave me a lift to town

Well, you ARE a whore , darling.

R88 I think on TCM they had a commentary on the costume design for Double Indemnity, and Wilder specified that he wanted the sleaziest looking wig for Stanwyck’s character. They found it.

That photo of Joan at r3 is from around 1936-38. It's not that harsh look that Joan acquired and nourished in the 1940s.

Joan was a bigger star ⭐

Someone posted here ages ago about MacMurray building a house near the nude beach in LaJolla and was appalled by the gay cruising going on near his house. Can someone confirm.

No mention yet of the famous quip about the wig. I thought I was hiring Barbara Stanwyck and I get George Washington!

How did Nef kill the husband?

The ending of the book was better but the movie's ending was okay.

I think the My Three Sons Fred may have more closely reflected his true personality, at least later in life, but not the range of his long acting career. He quite literally phoned in My Three Sons filming his scenes in a day or two while the other actors scenes were filled in around him. I think he was already one of the wealthiest stars from investments and didn’t need the work.

R100 - he hits him on the head with something.

Now that I watch it again maybe he strangles him. The brilliance of Wilder is that he conveys it in Barbara's closeup.

Here’s the real Ruth Snyder - looking every inch the housewife from Queens.

Stanwyck was MORE then sexy enough.

Ruth on the chair.

The photographer strapped a camera to his ankle to get this forbidden shot.

I liked Stanwyck in the movie. If she hadn't been available, I bet Gloria Grahame would have been excellent.

There are scenes in Double Indemnity in which Stanwyck appears vaguely reptilian. When she fixes that cold unblinking gaze on Neff I almost feel sorry for him-- he never stood a chance against such a monster. And then that incredible finale when Stanwyck rises slowly from her chair like a cobra ready to strike...

R104 I thought he was strangled too when I watched it but that wouldn't fly at the autopsy so it must have been a whack to the head.

R101 what was the book's ending?

Oh yes wasn't the narrative supposed to be he fell off the train and broke his neck?

I actually started reading the book just a few months ago because I had so enjoyed Cain's MILDRED PIERCE. But it was disappointing, really more a long short story or novella, with not a lot of subtlety or texture, perhaps due to censorship. Things moved along almost too quickly with little believable motivation (which the film certainly copies). I gave up after 50 pages or so.

But I highly recommend MILDRED PIERCE!

Read Postman after you read Mildred Pierce. The Postman Always Rings Twice is really good.

Gloria Grahame was closer to the age of the daughter/stepdaughter when this film was made, she was about 20.

Wilder and Stanwyck went shopping for the wig. What they chose was very deliberate.

I always thought it was the ankle bracelet as she walked down the stairs that told Neff what was up with Phyllis.

In no way was this duo looking for romance. Both knew that at the start.

The house is still there, on Quebec Drive in the Hollywood Hills. See link below.

WTF was so sexy about ankle bracelets? And why aren't they worn any more?

R109 I don't want to spoil it for anyone reading the book.

R114 Yes, the way Neff comments about the ankle bracelet cutting into her flesh. Very sexy!

Ankle bracelets may be nothing today but in 1944 they were the sign of whoredom.

The look of Stanwyck and MacMurray in the grocery store is iconic. I read that security guards had to be posted on the set because WW2 rationing was in effect and every single item on the shelves had to be accounted for and returned to the rationing authorities..

Has anyone read "Conversations with Wilder" by Cameron Crowe? I've started it and it's great. Wilder discusses, writing, acting, actors, etc. He LOVED Stanwyck and managed to MacMurray to play those corruptable and rotten characters. MacMurray was very reluctant, but Wilder knew how to get the performance needed.

Love that book. There's also a documentary that Cameron Crowe made on the topic where Billy Wilder acts like an old curmudgeon, getting pissy at every question.

I was at the star-studded AFI Life Achievement Award for Stanwyck back in the 80's and at some point I went to the bar in the back of the room and Billy Wilder was standing there alone getting a drink. He looked at me and said hello to me and I went into a complete paralysis. I think I said hello back but to this day I remember how I felt dizzy from the fact that Billy Wilder had acknowledged my existence. He was taller than I had imagined.

R115, not sexy.

Trashy.

Re the casting of MacMurray, Wilder similarly cast William Holden against type in SUNSET BOULEVARD and it completely changed the course of Holden's career in the 1950s and 60s. No more Mr. Nice Guy.

I love Bill Holden... God, the man was sex on a stick (a very nice, hairy stick). He's so hot in Stalag 17... Don't know why he was such a lush, but man, apparently he could put it away. What did Stefanie Powers see in him after a time?

Comps to lots of Hollywood premieres, r124?

R124 Stephanie Powers claims true love and it must have been. Why else would she have put up with his shitty behavior? Also, after his death, she wished they would have married.

R123, Billy Wilder also cast Fred MacMurray against type in “The Apartment”, as Shirley MacLaine’s married lover.

Fred was a last minute replacement for Paul Douglas, who had suffered a heart attack and died just before filming was to begin.

How did Stephanie allow to love of her life to die of blood loss after drunkenly hitting his head on a cabinet. And I think it was several days before he was found.

R127 surely filming a love scene with ol' Shirley wasn't that traumatic his heart gave out?

Edward G. Robinson stole the show in this movie. Not that Stanwyck & MacMurray weren't excellent, but Robinson is the one whose performance has always stuck with me.

[quote]What did Stefanie Powers see in (Holden) after a time?

They were friends, not much of a *love* relationship.

Barbara Stanwyck was tremendous, I’ll not hear another word about it!

She was even better in Sorry, Wrong Number opposite hairy-cocked hunk Burt Lancaster!

I am not saying she would have been better or gotten this part, but it would have been interesting to see Ingrid Bergman sink her teeth into a dark femme fatale role.

I’d have nominated her for best supporting actress in EXECUTIVE SUITE. Don’t understand why she was overlooked. She wasn’t much of a schmoozer and Hollywood studio execs love getting their asses kissed.

Maybe she didn't like the idea of being put in supporting?

Executive Suite sounds interesting (and has the always sexy William Holden!), but JUNE ALLYSON? blecch How did that woman have a lengthy career? I've never understood it.

Someone please tell me there's an alternate ending to the movie where Stanwyck pushes Allyson down the stairs, killing her and Stanwyck gets the man of her dreams, William Holden!

Barbara Stanwyck loved her some William Holden. He was sexy, but he was not good looking.

Body Heat was far superior. Stanwick didn’t exude sultry steaminess and McMurray didn’t exude “thinking with the other head” stupidity.

Has there ever been a remake superior to the original? I can only think of three - Body Heat, The Thing, and Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

I agree R139. I know they had that Production Code but I didn't buy for one second Nef had a raging hardon for the merry widow

R139 I agree with all 3.

R138, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I'm surprised at your comment. William Holden was very handsome in the way that men were supposed to be handsome in those days. Classic masculine good looks. He might not be to your taste, but lots of people here get all hot and bothered over pretty boys like young Tony Curtis or Tab Hunter, who leave me cold, but I see why people think they were good-looking. Maybe take another look?

[quote] Has there ever been a remake superior to the original? I can only think of three - Body Heat, The Thing, and Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

No. No and No.

None of the above are superior to the original.

R135, Stanwyck was "over the hill" at that point. Old news they'd seen before = no Oscar nomination, please.

[quote]Barbara Stanwyck loved her some William Holden. He was sexy, but he was not good looking.

R138 She called him her "Golden Boy" in one of her award speeches.

I saw three old William Holden movies : Love is a Many Splendored Thing, Stalag 17, and Picnic. He was sexy. And he had that weathered craggy look. Not a traditionally cookie cutter handsome man, but very attractive. In a way Clark Gable had that same, non traditional attractiveness. Now, IMO the truly handsome guys were Tyrone Power and Errol Flynn. Damn. They were hot.

Holden was hot in Sunset Boulevard. To me, Gregory Peck and Cary Grant were the handsome ones.

R138 William HOLDEN was not good looking???

People here make me feel guilty and wrong for liking June Allyson. I liked her since I was a kid. I find her sincere, funny at times and spunky.

I even like her character in The Shrike.

R150 Yes, very likeable. :/

R135, Seriously? The scene where Stanwyck breaks down in the boardroom is laughably bad acting.

R183, I sort of agree. Body Heat and The Thing (1982) are so different from the originals that it's not really fair to compare them. All four movies were of their own time. All four are great.

I do agree that the original Invasion of the Body Snatchers is much better than the remake. It's so much creepier, maybe in part because it's in black and white. Besides, Kevin McCarthy was much handsomer than Donald Sutherland.

R145, she was referring to the movie they made in 1939, his debut, “Golden Boy,” about a boxer. Later it was a Broadway musical with Sammy Davis in the 1960s.

You must have heard the story - they wanted to fire Holden and Stanwyck saved his job.

William Holden was downright pretty in his twenties. But smoking and boozing took a toll on his looks. Same thing happened with Gig Young.

R149 - We hate spunk.

I liked Gig YOung. I once saw a movie on TV, black and white film, with him and Rita Hayworth, where he was single with an overbearing mother, and she was very unhappily married, and her husband gets killed and Gig is blamed. I think it was, "The Story on Page One," or something like that.

"Laughably bad acting" from Stanwyck? I feel bad for you if you can't appreciate fine acting.

R157 - oh yes that film has ridiculous casting. Rita Hayworth as a slovenly housewife?

R158, Referring to one scene in one movie, cunt breath.

Two years after he started in movies, Gig Young acted in a Stanwyck movie called The Gay Sisters (1942). At that time his name was Byron Barr. Barr adopted the CHARACTER'S name of Gig Young from the film. it's funny when you watch all of the actors in the refer to him as "Gig Young" throughout.

R161 The actor who plays Nino Zachetti in Double Indemnity (the daughter's sullen boyfriend) was also named Byron Barr. I think that's why Gig Young had to change his name originally.

Come on, it's fantastic film noir.

Young Gig Young

R162

In 1942, six months into his Warner Brothers contract, he was given his first notable role in the feature film The Gay Sisters as a character named "Gig Young." Preview cards praised the actor "Gig Young" and the studio determined that "Gig Young" should become Barr's stage and professional name. About the name change, Young later admitted to having "some hesitancy... but I weighed the disadvantages against the advantages of having it stick indelibly in the mind of audiences. There'd be no confusion with some other actor called Gig."

R165 Right. There was confusion, originally - with some other actor named Byron Barr. Who happened to be in Double Indemnity, the subject of this thread. Coincidence.

The book's author, James M. Cain, apparently had no problem with Stanwyck's casting. He wrote to her: "It is a very creepy sensation to see a character imagined by yourself step in front of your eyes exactly as you imagined her."

But for anyone wanting a sexier villainess than Barbara Stanwyck, you need look no further than Lana Turner in the following year's [italic]The Postman Always Rings Twice[/italic]. Though not as strong a film overall as [italic]Double Indemnity[/italic], it is still worth checking out for the pairing of John Garfield and Lana Turner. (The casting of Cecil Kellaway as the husband, on the other hand, was a mistake. He's far too sweet & benign to be Nick.)

I love The Postman Always Rings Twice. Leon Ames and Hume Cronyn as the DA and the defense attorney are also great.

In the remake they didn't even bother to explain the Postman reference which wasn't part of the plot. Or bother to show Nicholson in jail for the wrong killing

While we're onto James Cain remakes, any thoughts here about the HBO version of MILDRED PIERCE starring Kate Winslet? I love the original Crawford film and was shocked when I read the novel last summer at all the changes that were made. Though I loved the novel, too. Both great in their own way. I assume the Winslet version is closer to the novel?

And decades later, Gig Young in "They Shoot Horses Don't They?"

Third time's the charm, he won an Oscar...

R170 what were the most significant changes to the movie? I read the movie streamlined the plot and made changes but have never read the book.

R171, that happened because the Academy wasn't ready to recognize Jack Nicholson who was also nominated in the same category (Easy Rider). 1969 and the next four years the acting Oscars were awarded to old timers as they over looked ALL the new edgy guys more deserving - Nicholson, Pacino, Hoffman etc.

R173 Gig Young wasn't deserving? He was great in that.

R172 Monty isn't killed in the book and Vida has singing ability and is a concert singer. Cain said he liked the changes the movie made.

r172, for starters and the biggest change SPOILER ALERT! - Mildred never kills Monte.

The book is really good, lots of atmospheric descriptions of LA in the early1930s and lots about of interesting details about living in the Depression, which is, of course, also very different from the film which takes place just post-WWII. I found it a much more satisfying read than Double Indemnity.

R176 isn't DI much shorter? In the movie though Mildred doesn't kill Monte either?

r172, no shoulder pads or fuck me pumps for Mildred!

The movie of Mildred Pierce is mostly told in flashback. Veda seems to be a preteen or very young teen when it begins. I looked up when it was released and it was September1945 (the month WWII ended). Max Steiner used his theme from Now Voyager (1942) on a record which would have been 1942. But possibly it takes place even before that.

R177 There's no murder in the book.

Even though about 10 years go by, there's no indication of changing styles, attitudes, manners, the Depression or the world at war in the film of Mildred Pierce. Nobody really ages. It's all firmly based in potwar1945. But, that's Hollywood for you.

It was made to make money as a "woman's pic".

Did Kate have her tits on display in the TV version?

Double Indemnity is virtually a novella. Mildred Pierce is an episodic saga.

The book of MILDRED PIERCE is closer to Fannie Hurst-style chick-lit than noir thriller, albeit much better written than anything Hurst ever churned out.

I certainly got the impression from reading it that James Cain must have been gay. Was he?

Hollywood didn’t use to have period appropriate costumes and hairstyles in many movies from the Golden Age.

That's true, r186, but also, I can't imagine the studio would have allowed dressing Crawford in 10 year old fashions in earlier section of Mildred's life.

According to Wikipedia:

[quote]The adaptation, released four years later, was designed as a thriller, and a murder was introduced into the plot. The novel spans nine years (from 1931 to 1940), whereas the film is set from 1939 to the 1940s and spans only four years.

I believe this is correct. And fashions didn't change significantly in those four years. Mildred's hairstyle is more late-30s at the beginning of the film, though, and the cars are older.

So Mildred had an affair with the guy who gets her setup in business then ultimately ends up forcing her out, whereas in the movie Joan doesn't let him anywhere near her growler?

R187, the same thing as in HUMORESQUE with John Garfield. I think the story was set in Depression era New York, but the fashions were contemporary…

r188, no matter what misinformed Wiki might say, if you think fashions didn't change much from 1939 to 1945, just check out Joan's look in The Women (1939) to Mildred Pierce (1945). She sports an entirely different look, particularly in her hairstyles and makeup.

R191 Because she's playing two different people.

In the early scenes of MP they're trying for a late-30s look in having her wear her hair up, for ex.

Hair up photo.

Later she wears this 40s look.

I think this outfit when she looking for a job (with the hat) is also supposed to suggest a slightly earlier time, in the 30s. I think these things are just suggested in the film but also would have been obvious to the audience. How would you suggest 2018 or 2019 fashions in a film made in 2023?

R192, no ... women's fashions did change quite a bit from '39 to '45: a slimmer silhouette, extreme shoulder pads, longer suit jackets with tightly fitted waists, and shorter, narrower skirts, for example. Hats also looked very different. Women's hair was longer in the mid-40s, and more of them wore it down. If you look at movies from ca. 1940 and those from ca. 1945, you can't miss the change.

It was my father's all-time favorite movie -- from the day he saw it, until the day he died.

I've told this story before: During WWII, hitch-hiking was commonplace in Los Angeles (and elsewhere, of course) due to the rationing of gasoline & rubber; municipal busses had curtailed their schedules, etc. According to my father, it was more or less considered one's patriotic duty to pick up hitch-hikers, if you were headed in their direction -- a small way to support the War Effort.

A few months my father saw Double Indemnity (twice, because he loved it so much), Fred MacMurray picked him up on Wilshire Blvd. in Westwood one morning (after a dentist appointment) and drove him to school!! Dad said it was the only time he was ever truly star-struck, and Fred was really nice. My dad had told Fred it was fine to just drop him him off at Wilshire & Barrington (he went to University High) and he'd walk the remaining 2-3 blocks. Fred replied, "Nonsense, son, it's no bother."

Thanks, r197, good story.

r192, the differences in those two hairdos have nothing to do with Mildred's aging. If anything, an argument could be made about wearing her hair down with heavy bangs would be a less mature, more youthful style, not the opposite. Wearing her hair up is also a style suited to working over a frying pan in a hot kitchen, it's a more practical style suited to her menial work.

R199 Since I never said it had anything to do with her aging, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Great film- one of the best if not the best of film noir.

R199 - the hairstyle in R194 is the cliched look for women trying to evoke the WWII era - have you never seen what the the Andrews Sisters looked like during the war, or how later tribute bands recreate their look?

r202, yes, agreed, but then the film is set in 1945. Of course, her hair has a contemporary look. But her up-do hairstyle in r193 is also classic WWII 1940s, much like Betty Grable's in her famous pin-up photo, favored as well by many other 1940s stars. Neither hairstyle really says "young" or "old" as they were worn by women of all ages in that decade.

My argument is that Joan's different hairstyles did nothing to set up the 10 year difference in the storytelling. But as I said upthread, I get it! That's Hollywood, of course, they weren't going to put their sexy star in a dated 1930s look, even if the story began back then.

Oh fuck. Now the thread has been hijacked by fashion / hairstyle queens. OP, thank you for starting the thread; it was interesting reading opinions about the film, writing, casting, other noir films, etc.

God R204, you are so right... the Insufferables have sat down at the dinner table and taken over the conversation. Other guests have quietly excused themselves and retreated to another room.

WHY don't some of you understand that movies are NOT DOCUMENTARIES?

And in the mean time, no one else is adding anything of interest about Double Indemnity, r205. And no one has said that movies should be as accurate as documentaries, r206.

Those of us commenting on Mildred Pierce are simply making observations about the lack of visual support in establishing the passage of time, a very typical flaw in Hollywood films of the Golden Age (and often onwards).

I like the subplot with the stepdaughter and her hot boyfriend. I liked Stanwyck’s cheap wig.

Stanwyck, miscast in Double Indemnity? BLASPHEMY! Her Phyllis Dietrichson became the archetype for all femme fatales that were to follow. It’s a great performance. That grocery store scene where she slinks in like a panther on the prowl? Perfection!

And thanks to offerings from TCM, I’ve really grown to love and appreciate Stanwyck over the years. She acts with her full body, and from one film to another, the way she walks and carries herself is different and suited to that character. And she was so versatile doing comedy, drama, noir, westerns. Love me some Missy!

Stanwyck’s final years were not very golden.

A home invasion where she was beaten and robbed, her house was nearly destroyed by fire, serious respiratory issues and then “The Colbys”.

She was a two packs a day smoker…and she drank heavily in her later years. That added to her lung function issues. But she was well off, more so than Bette or Joan because of shrewd financial management.

I'd imagine Stanwyck made a ton of money from THE BIG VALLEY which was well-invested. Neither Bette nor Joan ever had a hit TV series.

Plus, Bette and Joan spent money like water…Barbara was the highest paid woman in 1944, plus she insisted on alimony from Robert Taylor when they divorced. She had more money than him, so I don’t know why she took it from him. He was an inconsequential person with not much of a backbone. I probably would have done the same thing. Bette went broke supporting her family and Joan was always a spendthrift.

R[118] I just learned that anklets are now a signal that someone is in the lifestyle (a swinger) and is available for fun.

R213 I forgot about that part of her career, thanks for reminding me. Also, she was great in the miniseries The Thornbirds with Richard Chamberlain, Christopher Plummer and Earl Holliman.

It bugged me that few of the cast of THORN BIRDS had Australian accents.

R214, She insisted on alimony from Taylor because she was angry he wanted the divorce.

[quote] Oh fuck. Now the thread has been hijacked by fashion / hairstyle queens.

R204 There were already a million posts about Stanwyck wig, her anklet, whatever, but NOW the thread has been highjacked with fashion/hairstyle queens. Sure.

"Oh fuck."

Somehow Barbara seemed inauthentic as a Mother .

In films or real life R220? I don't think that she was meant to be a mother. Her adoption of Dion was mainly for publicity and to save her faltering marriage. She didn't really have maternal instincts. Sad for Dion, though, because she was not a good mother to him.

[quote]She insisted on alimony from Taylor because she was angry he wanted the divorce.

He wanted it quickly, his attorneys made a deal, she took it. It's not her fault he was a fucking FOOL.

Robert Taylor spent his wedding night cradling his extremely upset mother, who had heard about his wedding to Stanwyck on the radio before they had a chance to return home and break the news to her.

Taylor was such a mama’s boy. And allegedly he had tinymeat. Just a pretty face. Worse than Ryan Reynolds.

R224, And his looks faded, big time. He’s only 54 in this photo.

Another one whose looks were done in by smoking. Eventually he died of lung cancer.

They didn’t have to kill Him . It was cold hearted greed . That double indemnity bonus did them in

Thasss what cumsh from toomuch pillsh and licker!

Oh fuck. Now the thread has been hijacked by anti-smoking queens.

And Liza!

I could only abide Taylor in his male ingenue days pre-CAMILLE (1936) when his boyish good looks carried him and almost made you forget he lacked a strong jaw. He's adorable in that Eleanor Parker MGM musical extravaganza BROADWAY MELODY OF 1935, in which he sings and dances to "I Got a Feeling You're Fooling" quite amusingly. As stated above, he really aged quickly and his lack of serious acting chops didn't help his later years either.

I never liked Robert Taylor and I read that he was a lush. A drunkard. And swilling moron.

Eh...he was pretty.

He was no Sonny Tufts.

Who was, r234?

R206, a movie set in the present is a kind of documentary. For one thing, it demonstrates the attitudes and morals of its time, or at least those of the writers. For another, if the movie is set in the real world, not fantasy or sci-fi, then the costumes, hairstyles, interior décor and other incidental features represent Hollywood’s idea of the way people and places actually look at that time. The fashions and hairstyles are those of the period. There’s nothing wrong with later generations watching a movie made in 1944 and noticing and talking about such details.

R234, I’ll say… 😒

Well, she DID have great gams!

Walter understood her, oh, he understood but fast, baby. His problem was---his boss had him pegged, too.

Ya think, r227?

R27, You don't know what she "offered." Movies don't have to overtly vulgar nor actors starkers to get a point across.

As for beauty, there are cliches about it, no? Something about a beholder?

This wasn't Walter's first time at the Hungry Housewife Rodeo. But now he allowed himself a novelty, a literal femme fatale. Sex and money. Our pockets ARE at our loins, after all.

Have another bite of apple, Adam.

[quote] This wasn't Walter's first time at the Hungry Housewife Rodeo.

I think it probably was, actually.

It’s a good thing Walter had Uncle Charley at home to take care of those boys while he was running around with that two-bit floozy!

Terrific and very enjoyable film noir.

From that first view of Stanwyck's ankles coming down the stairs with that tawdry ankle bracelet on . . .

I always loved this movie and I thought Fred MacMurray was well cast. He had that "every man" look and it was easy to see that the character thought of himself as a lady's man with his snappy, quippy dialogue. A very ordinary guy coming on to a potential client. The sleaze just oozed out of him. Funnily enough I never liked Fred Mac Murray.

I thought he was good looking R244, I'm guessing he had a nice hairy dick

He was rumored to be one of the wealthiest actors in Hollywood, because he invested in real estate.

That makes him one of the smartest, too, then, r246.

MacMurray was absolutely perfect in this brilliantly-written role. He embodies the meaning, tension, and foreknowledge under the surface dialogue.

Barbra S was perfection in this classic

Barbra Streisand, R248????

Stanwyck spelled her name the way BARBARA is supposed to be spelled: Barbara

I couldn’t spell Stanwyck r249 and thanks for the correction:)

Speaking of film noir, let me remind everyone that "Noir Alley" plays twice weekly on TCM: Sat at 9p.m. (PDT) & rerun Sun at 7a.m. (PDT). Even if a particular movie doesn't appeal to you, Eddie Muller's short introductory & concluding comments are always worth listening to. I record it every Sun. morning & catch up whenever I can.

There's some good Noir stuff on You Tube as well.

Fred MacMurray played only one more high profile Not Nice Man role, and that was in Wilder's "The Apartment". But at the time, he was also making it big as Papa Cleaver in "Leave it to Beaver" and he realised that he could no longer play sleazy roles because they would interfere with his late-career image.

And, yes, it is true that he built up an immense fortune by investing in real estate.

He was also alleged to be not particularly nice.

That was also said about Joel McCrea.

R253, Fred MacMurray wasn't Beaver's dad -- that was Hugh Beaumont. MacMurray was the dad on "My Three Sons".

Do you mean that Joel McCrea was rich from real estate investment, or that he wasn't a nice guy? Hard to believe the latter.

R253, You mean, Steve Douglas on “My Three Sons”.

Don't believe anything R253 says.

Fred MacMurray was well known for being frugal, aka cheap.

He was the type who would invite someone to lunch and conveniently forget to bring his wallet.

Cheap ass die

I've heard that MacMurray wasn't a real nice guy -- but I've never heard anything bad about Joel McCrae.

MacMurray owned property in La Jolla California. It allegedly was near the cruising area of the nude beach…he wasn’t happy about that…

Double Anal IncA Double Bed

R253 Fred MacMurray played only one more high profile Not Nice Man role, and that was in Wilder's "The Apartment".

I guess you never saw The Caine Mutiny.