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What happens if Russia wins war against Ukraine?

I don't understand geopolitics. Very simply, what would happen?

by Anonymousreply 128May 24, 2023 1:48 PM

When, not if.

by Anonymousreply 1May 5, 2023 9:41 PM

They lost the war the day they withdrew from Kyiv. We're just watching the slow cleanup by Ukraine right now, but one that is unfortunately costing lots of lives on both sides.

But if they did hypothetically win this war, it would send a powerful message that any country with nukes could invade its smaller neighbour and the world would just watch as it happened. It would lead to another arms race to obtain nukes because there wouldn't be any other guarantee of safety anymore. Just the fact that you had nukes would mean you could get away with gobbling up sovereign countries around you as you pleased.

by Anonymousreply 2May 5, 2023 9:42 PM

This is basically WW3 and the U.S. is winning... so far. But poor-ass Russia is being financed by Jinah and the A-rabs.

Once Ukraine is free they're going to have to shape the fuck up. We're not supporting a bunch of sleazy gypsies, tramps and thieves.

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by Anonymousreply 3May 5, 2023 9:52 PM

Did you read your own article? How is an anti corruption govt agency catching a crooked politician not shaping things up? Do you think other nations have no corrupt politicians?

[Quote] In 2017, the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) accused him of organizing a city council vote, in September 2016, to buy the old Krayan factory building for $7 million when it had been bought by a private firm for only $152,000…. On April 25, 2023, the High Anti-Corruption Court of Ukraine (HACC) ordered Trukhanov to pay bail worth over $800,000 as a preventive measure while investigations into the embezzlement case continue.

by Anonymousreply 4May 5, 2023 10:58 PM

I too am curious

by Anonymousreply 5May 5, 2023 11:42 PM

The whole thing us scary. Surely Putin can be gotten rid of? That he remains in power is a sad sign.

by Anonymousreply 6May 5, 2023 11:53 PM

Does anybody who understands Geo politics, think we're headed for a world War soon?

by Anonymousreply 7May 6, 2023 12:12 AM

R7 Fiona Hill has argued that we're already in WWIII but I'm not convinced. Point is, it's debatable and could go either way. I think a major event e.g. a nuclear attack or possibly China deciding to invade Taiwan could escalate things.

by Anonymousreply 8May 6, 2023 12:21 AM

That's what I worry about, a major event such as Taiwan. I hope Fiona Hill is wrong. Thanks R8.

by Anonymousreply 9May 6, 2023 12:37 AM

We (U.S.) loaned Ukraine billions of dollars. If Russia takes Ukraine, I assume Russia isn't going to pay back any of Ukraine's debts. Lender nations will have to eat the loss. What would that do to our economy?

by Anonymousreply 10May 6, 2023 12:50 AM

[quote]We (U.S.) loaned Ukraine billions of dollars

I'd be shocked if any U.S. politician or bank actually expects that to be paid back anytime soon (or ever).

The U.S. is paying billons to annoy/destabilize Russia, and ... it appears to be working kind of well.

by Anonymousreply 11May 6, 2023 12:54 AM

Last week when the Iranians seized a U.S oil tanker, would they have done that as harassment on behalf of the Russians?

by Anonymousreply 12May 6, 2023 1:20 AM

In that case it won’t end. There will be years of anti-Russian terrorist combat.

by Anonymousreply 13May 6, 2023 1:27 AM

If Ukraine loses, the American warmongers who gave away billions of dollars to Ukraine should be tried, but that's not going to happen. They won't personally be out a cent.

by Anonymousreply 14May 6, 2023 1:38 AM

R13 I think that's correct.

I think Galicia will be cleaved off, maybe Poland will claim it, there will be NovoRussia or something like it, composed of the oblasts along the coast (certainly Odessa) and everything East of the Dnieper, then a landlocked rump Ukraine. There will be perennial paramilitary attacks against the newly annexed Russian lands for a generation. Ukraine itself, or what's left of it, will be a poverty stricken, population denuded failed- ish state, neither in NATO or the EU. Poland will be the new emboldened American garrison vassal state, taking over from Germany.

by Anonymousreply 15May 6, 2023 1:39 AM

r12 The Iranians are absolute NIMBY's over the gulf. They've seized plenty of ships that stray close to their territorial waters in the years before the war and they'll seize more after its over.

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by Anonymousreply 16May 6, 2023 1:43 AM

Then it will be as expected bc Russia is so big and has more people and weapons.

by Anonymousreply 17May 6, 2023 1:45 AM

Should politicians be punished for failure?

by Anonymousreply 18May 6, 2023 3:09 AM

Russia will annexe Ukraine and then invade another non NATO country that used to be part of the USSR.

by Anonymousreply 19May 6, 2023 3:14 AM

Thank you R16.

by Anonymousreply 20May 6, 2023 4:16 AM

If Russia wins, how long would Europe continue their boycott of Russian oil/gas?

by Anonymousreply 21May 6, 2023 4:18 AM

You're a NIMBY, r16

by Anonymousreply 22May 6, 2023 4:28 AM


by Anonymousreply 23May 6, 2023 2:15 PM

I guess the tariff will be given the flick by Turkey if Russia wins?

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by Anonymousreply 24May 7, 2023 3:40 AM

Geopolitics aside, what should the individual living in the West do if Russia wins? Will everyday life be different?

by Anonymousreply 25May 7, 2023 3:46 PM

I haven't seen this mentioned much online. A huge mushroom cloud in West Ukraine apparently a detonation at an arms factory.

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by Anonymousreply 26May 14, 2023 5:49 AM

I hope Chili Pizza nearby is okay.

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by Anonymousreply 27May 14, 2023 5:52 AM

Of course you won't see much about that in the western media, r26.

by Anonymousreply 28May 14, 2023 5:53 AM

It depends on how you define "lose" and "victory", OP. For Ukraine, victory over Russia will only occur if they eject every Russian soldier from Ukraine, including Crimea, which will never happen. Anything else will be a loss for the Ukrainians, in Zelenskyy's mind.

For the Russians, a whole range of different scenarios could be described as a victory for them. Russia occupies around 20% of Ukraine and, as the Ukrainians won't be able to remove every Russian soldier from Ukraine, the war will very likely end with Ukraine having officially to concede some territory to Russia (the US has already admitted this). The Russians will of course be able to present this as a victory for them. The war is also very likely to end with a security agreement between the west/Europe/Nato and Russia on a European security architecture, which the Russians will also be able to claim as a victory (and loss for neocon European "hawks" such as Poland and the Baltics, who have long blocked any such attempts for Nato to come to a security arrangement with Russia, hence leading to today's situation).

by Anonymousreply 29May 14, 2023 6:05 AM

Putin is going to annex Belarus and claim that as his victory.

by Anonymousreply 30May 14, 2023 7:11 AM

I don't think Putin will win in Ukraine. The EU is finally waking up and delivering heavy weapons. 2 of the patriot missile systems are from the EU. The UK supplied long range weapons and the production of shells has been given the go ahead now after stupid ass Macron blocked it.

I'm more worried about China waging war on Taiwan, esp since Russia and China are cooperating on a military alliance now.

by Anonymousreply 31May 14, 2023 7:46 AM

Patriotism and emotions aside, we seem to be the ones escalating a war with China and not the other way around.

by Anonymousreply 32May 14, 2023 8:27 AM

Bullshit R32, they've been saying for years they want Taiwan back, if necessary by force. Their one China talk and that Taiwan is part of the PRC, which it never was, is more than flimsy. There is no definitive and legally binding contract ever signed under UN law that the PRC has any right to Taiwan.

The CCP's childish attempts at bullying other nations around is falling on stiff resistance.

by Anonymousreply 33May 14, 2023 8:35 AM

R33, you're aware that the US and all EU countries and almost every country in the world recognise Taiwan as part of China and not as an independent state, right?

by Anonymousreply 34May 14, 2023 8:59 AM

Don't fall for Chinese propaganda R34!

The Distortion of UN Resolution 2758 and Limits on Taiwan’s Access to the United Nations

There is a campaign underway by the People’s Republic of China (PRC) to reinterpret UN Resolution 2758 as based on its “One China” Principle and spread the fallacy that, through the resolution, UN member states came to a determination that Taiwan is a part of the PRC.

Yet, in passing the resolution in 1971, the countries solely intended to grant the seat occupied by the Republic of China in the General Assembly and the Security Council to the PRC. This is reflected in the official historic record and meeting minutes as well as in the resolutions raised at the time for the General Assembly’s consideration.

The PRC understood then that the resolution did not contain the Taiwan conclusions it wanted. Prime Minister Zhou Enlai noted that, if Resolution 2758 passed, “the status of Taiwan is not yet decided.” Beijing, through its proxies at the UN, expressed its unwillingness to join the organization if it allowed “‘two Chinas,’ ‘one China, one Taiwan,’ or ‘the status of Taiwan remaining to be determined.’” However, given that Beijing did not enjoy the same level of international influence then as it does today, it did not reject the resolution when it passed. Instead, PRC officials assumed the “China” seat and only later began to leverage their position to promote Beijing’s stance on Taiwan at the UN level.

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by Anonymousreply 35May 14, 2023 9:34 AM

R25, where in the West? If you mean North America, nothing in the everyday lives of ordinary citizens would change if Russia wins, except that our media would have to find something else to talk about. With the 2024 election approaching in the US, that shouldn't be difficult.

If you mean Western Europe, I guess Western governments will have to decide if/when they will start accepting Russian oil again. That would presumably have a big effect on the cost of gasoline and heating oil. Other than petroleum-related matters, nothing much would change in ordinary life in Western Europe, either, except I suppose there would be even more refugees. In the longer term, countries are likely to increase military spending.

In former Soviet satellite states like Poland, there would be a lot of fear and probably even more massive military buildups than are happening already.

by Anonymousreply 36May 14, 2023 9:56 AM

If Russia wins it will be a huge problem, it will mean that the US and the EU and the rest of the pro democracy world can't defeat an authoritarian aggressor. It will only embolden Putin, China, Iran and every two bit shithead dictators like Orban, Erdogan and Maduro, who always hated the West,

by Anonymousreply 37May 14, 2023 10:17 AM

Define a Russian win and a Russian loss and a Ukrainian win and a Ukrainian loss.

by Anonymousreply 38May 14, 2023 10:26 AM

Trump not being willing to endorse a Ukrainian victory is all I needed to see.

Trump will fail and so will Russia. The traditional grease fire will need an upgrade.

by Anonymousreply 39May 14, 2023 10:40 AM

Your national borders are arbitrary.

All will be assimilated.

by Anonymousreply 40May 14, 2023 11:15 AM

[quote]Trump not being willing to endorse a Ukrainian victory is all I needed to see.

Do you have a link R39? Surely Dump isn't that stupid. Oh wait...

by Anonymousreply 41May 14, 2023 11:40 AM

Borscht for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

by Anonymousreply 42May 14, 2023 11:55 AM

[quote]and every two bit shithead dictators like Orban, Erdogan and Maduro

If Erdoğan loses you can just add me to the list!

by Anonymousreply 43May 14, 2023 12:00 PM

[quote] If Ukraine loses, the American warmongers who gave away billions of dollars to Ukraine

Mattfatso, fascism is going to lose. I’m sorry to ruin your dream.

Sometimes I wonder why some homosexuals are so keen to make fascism happen, when one of the first victims in a fascist state is usually homosexuals. But then I realize that’s exactly why they want it.

by Anonymousreply 44May 14, 2023 12:10 PM

[quote]I haven't seen this mentioned much online. A huge mushroom cloud in West Ukraine apparently a detonation at an arms factory.

I don't think there are any verified reports that this actually happened. The video looks fake too.

by Anonymousreply 45May 14, 2023 12:23 PM

Looks real.

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by Anonymousreply 46May 14, 2023 1:11 PM

Looks real to me.

by Anonymousreply 47May 14, 2023 1:22 PM

There are reports it was an old fuel storage, or even footage from an explosion some years ago in Iran. That it was fuel makes sense, oil or diesel definitely creates lots of black smoke and an upright raising plume.

by Anonymousreply 48May 14, 2023 1:30 PM

Can you link these reports? ^

by Anonymousreply 49May 14, 2023 1:43 PM

[quote] it will mean that the US and the EU and the rest of the pro democracy world can't defeat an authoritarian aggressor.

The EU/Europe have a long history of detente with totaltarian authorities, so it's more a batter of won't than can't. Think Germany WWII. Think the Soviet Union through the 1980s. Think the Ottomans, the Austro-Hungarians. The only reason that those "totaltarian authorities" left and went home was because of ennui, and an inability to successfully administer their occupied territories. Same will happen with Russia. They'll take over Ukraine, make a move into another non-NATO country and then camp out until ennui compels them to pack up and head back East home.

by Anonymousreply 50May 14, 2023 1:52 PM

^^^^ a CASE of won't . . .

by Anonymousreply 51May 14, 2023 1:53 PM

[quote] when one of the first victims in a fascist state is usually homosexuals.

R44 Uh, no. It's usually Jews, helped along by homosexuals to demonstrate their fascist "loyalty". See Germany's Nazi Party, slave labor and death camps for myriad examples.

by Anonymousreply 52May 14, 2023 1:59 PM

R51, are you sure you didn't intend to write "matter" there?

by Anonymousreply 53May 14, 2023 2:03 PM

R53 Even better! Thanx!

by Anonymousreply 54May 14, 2023 2:05 PM

Another amoral madman will have won a victory on the doorstep of Europe.

by Anonymousreply 55May 14, 2023 2:06 PM

Not much tbh.

by Anonymousreply 56May 14, 2023 3:19 PM

Sadly it's not "if."

by Anonymousreply 57May 14, 2023 3:24 PM

The only way they can "win" at this point is to use nukes. But what use is a nuclear wasteland to anyone?

by Anonymousreply 58May 14, 2023 7:19 PM

Russia must not win.

by Anonymousreply 59May 14, 2023 8:34 PM

Didn't 3 or 4 Russian jets get shot down simultaneously, Boris? Ukraine seems to be doing fine.

by Anonymousreply 60May 14, 2023 9:22 PM

If our (US) economy goes into recession, will that stop or put limits on giving Ukraine aid?

by Anonymousreply 61May 14, 2023 9:37 PM

[quote]We're not supporting a bunch of sleazy gypsies, tramps and thieves.

Just the cute ones.

by Anonymousreply 62May 14, 2023 9:41 PM

R3 you stupid, silly, mentally challenged queen. Don't you think that US politicians are not corrupted? That US is not ruled by Wall street and Big tech?

by Anonymousreply 63May 14, 2023 9:45 PM

I will tolerate no corruption!

by Anonymousreply 64May 14, 2023 9:48 PM

Funny how the most corrupt US politicians at the present time tend to be the same ones who support Putin over Ukraine. Almost like there's some ideological connection ...

by Anonymousreply 65May 14, 2023 9:52 PM

R57 IF you read the latest news from the front, I think you might change your mind.

by Anonymousreply 66May 15, 2023 1:38 PM

Russia losing will be somewhat scarier. And I do hope they lose.

by Anonymousreply 67May 15, 2023 1:48 PM

[QUOTE] The EU/Europe have a long history of detente with totaltarian authorities, so it's more a batter of won't than can't. Think Germany WWII.

How the hell was WW2 an example of 'detente'? The Allies waged war on Hitler for six years. Also, you spelt 'totalitarian' wrongly twice.

by Anonymousreply 68May 16, 2023 5:29 AM

Russia will not win. They will have gotten their asses kicked by the US (by proxy) twice.

I wonder if they're going to want to get their ass kicked a third time?

by Anonymousreply 69May 16, 2023 5:31 AM

R52 Homosexuals were targeted along with Jews (pink triangle). The poster you responded said 'one of' and they're right.

*Especially* in the current case of Russia who has been passing laws and propagandizing furiously against LGBT but hasn't said anything much about Jews.

by Anonymousreply 70May 16, 2023 5:38 AM

[quote] They will have gotten their asses kicked by the US (by proxy) twice.

Which wars are you counting as proxy wars?

by Anonymousreply 71May 16, 2023 5:53 AM

[QUOTE] Which wars are you counting as proxy wars?

Maybe when the US armed the Taliban and kicked the Soviets out of Afghanistan, sending women back into the dark ages.

by Anonymousreply 72May 16, 2023 7:26 AM

[quote]Homosexuals were targeted along with Jews (pink triangle). The poster you responded said 'one of' and they're right.

R70 Homosexual "targeting", tossing gay men into concentration camps, was a far cry from the Holocaust, the extermination of the Jews of Europe. The families of homosexuals were not affected, neither was their property of homosexuals looted. And there were far more brutal gay extermination camp guards than inmates in concentration camps.

[quote] *Especially* in the current case of Russia who has been passing laws and propagandizing furiously against LGBT but hasn't said anything much about Jews.

Because anti-Jewish hatred/bigotry is well-established in Russian culture for centuries. No point in "propagandizing furiously" about cultural enemies of whom everyone is well aware. The Tsars and Stalin targeted Jews, not homosexuals.

by Anonymousreply 73May 16, 2023 10:10 AM

How many Kinzhals does Russia have?

by Anonymousreply 74May 16, 2023 10:14 AM

[quote] How the hell was WW2 an example of 'detente'? The Allies waged war on Hitler for six years.

R68 The ALLIES waged war. The French, Belgians, Dutch, etc. reached a "detente". They more or less went about their biz, and the Nazis went about theirs. Which included the rounding up of Jews for extermination. Which the French, Belgians, etc. were happy to do.

[quote] Also, you spelt 'totalitarian' wrongly twice.

At least I'm consistent.

by Anonymousreply 75May 16, 2023 10:21 AM

[quote] Maybe when the US armed the Taliban and kicked the Soviets out of Afghanistan, sending women back into the dark ages.

Women in Afghanistan have always been in the dark ages. There was a brief period of what passes for "modernity" in mainly in the capitol Kabul from 1930 to 1970 while Mohammed Zahir Shah ruled. But as always happens in Muslim countries, someone came along - in this instance Zahir's cousin Daoud Khan - challenged and deposed Zahir. Bye, bye modernity.

by Anonymousreply 76May 16, 2023 10:35 AM

Correction to R73: "persecuted Jews", not "targeted"

by Anonymousreply 77May 16, 2023 10:49 AM

[quote]The families of homosexuals were not affected, neither was their property of homosexuals looted.

Because they weren't gay, you utter fucking dumbass.

by Anonymousreply 78May 16, 2023 12:08 PM

I think Putin will be dead soon, and once he's gone it will all fall apart completely. The more worrying question is how much damage can he do when he has nothing left to lose?

by Anonymousreply 79May 16, 2023 12:23 PM

[quote] Because they weren't gay, you utter fucking dumbass.

R78 That's EXACTLY the point. Neither was property owned by gays looted by the Nazis.

This is an adult discussion forum. Save the childish pejoratives for whatever elementary school playground you wandered in from.

by Anonymousreply 80May 16, 2023 12:39 PM

R80 The gay men were IN concentration camps, idiot. They had no use for their property. And their families weren't gay (presumably the families had the property). You really don't think any of this through do you?

by Anonymousreply 81May 16, 2023 12:45 PM

R81 And after gay men got out of the concentration camps, they returned to their loving families and property. Unlike Jews . . .

by Anonymousreply 82May 16, 2023 12:47 PM

R82 Bold of you to assume that they came out alive to 'loving families and property'.

[quote]Between 1933 and 1945, an estimated 100,000 men were arrested as homosexuals; around 50,000 of these were sentenced by civilian courts, 6,400 to 7,000 by military courts [de], and an unknown number by special courts. Most of these men served time in regular prisons, and between 5,000 and 6,000 were imprisoned in concentration camps. The death rate of these prisoners has been estimated at 60 percent, a higher rate than those of other prisoner groups. A smaller number of men were sentenced to death or killed at Nazi euthanasia centres. Nazi Germany's persecution of homosexuals is considered to be the most severe episode in a long history of discrimination and violence targeting sexual minorities.

by Anonymousreply 83May 16, 2023 12:59 PM

It would be the end the world as we know it

by Anonymousreply 84May 16, 2023 1:00 PM

Americans would lose their healthcare and go into debt

by Anonymousreply 85May 16, 2023 1:01 PM

Idk but I'm scared AF. America better nuke that little Putin rat into smithereens.

by Anonymousreply 86May 16, 2023 1:05 PM

I'm in favor of using as many nukes as it takes. Those opposed are Nazi MAGATS.

by Anonymousreply 87May 16, 2023 1:09 PM

[quote]If Ukraine loses, the American warmongers who gave away billions of dollars to Ukraine should be tried, but that's not going to happen. They won't personally be out a cent.

Ding! Ding! Ding! And there we have today's stupidest comment!

by Anonymousreply 88May 16, 2023 9:47 PM

The end of democracy and the rich of the authoritarian far right. See Modi In India, Putin and other fascists. It will come home too. It already is at the door...

by Anonymousreply 89May 16, 2023 9:51 PM

[QUOTE] The French, Belgians, Dutch, etc. reached a "detente"

France and Belgium were INVADED by Germany and occupied by Nazis.

by Anonymousreply 90May 19, 2023 3:57 AM

[quote] What happens if Russia wins war against Ukraine?

Easy question. The western governments and media will declare Ukraine won anyway. Much as they did with Finland and Russia when the Finns had to surrender 10% of their territory to Stalin. Double Stalin's original territorial demands.

by Anonymousreply 91May 19, 2023 4:07 AM

Is this a troll thread for the Russians? The OP did not use an article (the) after all.

by Anonymousreply 92May 19, 2023 4:44 AM

The Russia?

by Anonymousreply 93May 19, 2023 5:45 AM

The war, dummy.

by Anonymousreply 94May 19, 2023 5:57 AM

You're right, R92—I hadn't noticed that.

by Anonymousreply 95May 19, 2023 2:13 PM

Really nice to see Zelensky being so welcome by the G7 members!

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by Anonymousreply 96May 21, 2023 7:40 AM

Another great video of Zelensky in Hiroshima. XJP's head is exploring I hope.

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by Anonymousreply 97May 21, 2023 7:42 AM

*welcomed by

by Anonymousreply 98May 21, 2023 7:43 AM

Hillary Clinton thinks Ukraine war has set back China’s plans for Taiwan

by Anonymousreply 99May 21, 2023 7:49 AM

Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine has “set back” China’s ambitions to invade Taiwan, former US secretary of state Hillary Clinton said.

In a wide-ranging interview at the FT Weekend festival in Washington on Saturday, the one-time Democratic presidential candidate, who served as America’s top diplomat under Barack Obama, offered stark assessments on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, US-China relations, and US president Joe Biden’s re-election prospects next year.

Clinton warned that re-electing Donald Trump in 2024 would “spell the end of democracy” in the US and the “end of Ukraine”.

She described Putin as a “complicated, Messianic, narcissistic authoritarian”. The Russian leader had believed that if Trump won the 2020 presidential election he would have pulled the US out of Nato, she added.

“It would have literally been a cake walk for him, and so when Trump didn’t win, he figured he had to go forward.”

This turned out to be “absolutely the wrong calculation”, she added.

by Anonymousreply 100May 21, 2023 7:53 AM

Clinton said she believed Xi was re-evaluating his approach to Taiwan in light of Putin’s failure to swiftly take over Ukraine.

She said she had previously assumed that Xi would “make his move against Taiwan” within three or four years of consolidating his power in China. But she added: “I think Ukraine has really set that back. I mean, what has happened in Ukraine has had a significant impact, in my view, on the Chinese leadership.”

“Look, Trump was the gift that kept giving to people like Xi and Putin,” Clinton added, in an attack on the man who defeated her in the 2016 election. “He was . . . so enamoured of authoritarians, he was inept in any kind of strategic approach to China, and you know, he was clearly going to do whatever Putin wanted on Nato.”

Clinton said she did not “believe” Trump would win the presidential election in 2024. But she cautioned that if he did, it would be “the end of democracy in the United States” and the “end of Ukraine,” warning Trump would pull the US out of Nato.

Clinton acknowledged that at 80, Biden’s age was “an issue” that voters had “every right to consider”. But she paraphrased the president’s oft-quoted phrase: “Don’t judge him by running against the Almighty, but against the alternative.”

Clinton also endorsed Biden’s effort to push the Democratic National Committee to overhaul the party’s nominating process after the 2020 Iowa caucuses were marred by delayed results because of a malfunctioning vote-counting app.

“Thank God they are over, at least for the Democrats, because they are deserving to be finished,” Clinton said of the Iowa caucuses. “I won Iowa, but still, it’s not a good idea. You know, let my people vote.”

by Anonymousreply 101May 21, 2023 7:56 AM

[quote] The western governments and media will declare Ukraine won anyway

Illustration from today's Daily Mail

Why the setback in the battle for Bakhmut may hold the key to ultimate triumph for Ukraine

by Anonymousreply 102May 22, 2023 2:05 AM

R102, do you think that Bakhmut holds any strategic (rather than symbolic) significance, or that occupation of it offers any advantage to Russia?

by Anonymousreply 103May 22, 2023 2:19 AM

Bakhmut is a Russian meat grinder basically.

by Anonymousreply 104May 22, 2023 7:23 AM

It's interesting, I know someone who is from Ukraine (the Donbas region) and she is just plain annoyed with the whole situation.

She moved to the US for a better life, materially speaking, 30ish years ago. She was really upset that Putin attacked Ukraine because of the destruction of historic architecture primarily. She felt like it was stupid to fight back against Putin because he is irrational and motivated by his ego and life traumas he is trying to placate by building a new Russian empire, and she thinks he will stop at nothing and therefore is extremely dangerous, and if he can't be taken out then there is no point in defending the Ukrainian territory since doing so will only destroy Ukraine.

She doesn't like the other Vlad, either, and thinks he is keeping Ukraine too dependent on US relief funds, and she thinks the US weapons industry is profiting off of this and will keep it going for as long as possible.

Her view is that Ukraine should have basically rolled over and surrendered until Putin croaks and then had a peaceful protest for independence.

by Anonymousreply 105May 22, 2023 1:02 PM

R105 Well, shame because nearly everyone who actually lives in Ukraine and is actually paying for it with their lives and homes doesn't agree. I wonder why that is /s

by Anonymousreply 106May 22, 2023 1:05 PM

[quote]Her view is that Ukraine should have basically rolled over and surrendered until Putin croaks and then had a peaceful protest for independence.

No doubt that would have been very peaceful indeed.

by Anonymousreply 107May 22, 2023 1:10 PM

R106 Those aren't my thoughts. I'm sharing what someone I know feels about it. She grew up in Brezhnev's USSR and clearly is traumatized by it. Her family 'had connections,' and so she was able to read a lot of books and access a lot, but she makes it sound like there was a feeling of danger that came with it, and she has mentioned several times looking out the window of her apartment as a girl and seeing tanks roll down the street outside. My impression is that she had an easier life than some people in the USSR and grew up understanding that as long as you play along and don't make waves, you may not get hurt.

by Anonymousreply 108May 22, 2023 1:13 PM

People like that are the past. Ukrainians are living this invasion in real time so who cares what those people think.

by Anonymousreply 109May 22, 2023 1:16 PM

[quote]Her view is that Ukraine should have basically rolled over and surrendered until Putin croaks and then had a peaceful protest for independence.

Easy for her to say while has been living in the US for the past 30 years R105.

by Anonymousreply 110May 22, 2023 1:17 PM

I mean, no-one invaded during Brezhnev's USSR time, so she just simply doesn't have the same frame of reference or experience at all.

by Anonymousreply 111May 22, 2023 1:18 PM

So she's upset about the architecture, but not all the innocent lives lost or the trauma that will affect the survivors for generations?

by Anonymousreply 112May 22, 2023 1:33 PM

Exactly R112. What a bitch.

by Anonymousreply 113May 22, 2023 1:45 PM

[quote] So she's upset about the architecture, but not all the innocent lives lost or the trauma that will affect the survivors for generations?

Lacking good PR machines how many of the other current wars cause you sleepless nights

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by Anonymousreply 114May 22, 2023 1:49 PM

R114, apart from your straw-man hyperboles and misdirection, you might not have noticed that all the other wars on the map you linked to are internecine, so not comparable to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And in any case we're talking about an expatriate Ukrainian woman's reported opinion. Nice try, but no beet for you.

by Anonymousreply 115May 22, 2023 1:54 PM

Lol Hillary Clinton, R101? Seriously?

by Anonymousreply 116May 22, 2023 1:58 PM

Yes, R112. Her detachment is strange and I have always wanted to ask about it. She's a very caring person. I do think she was traumatized by her upbringing, but exactly how I couldn't guess.

Her life was clearly a good one growing up, relatively speaking, but she still moved here and never looked back. She did tell me recently, almost crying, that she moved here to get away from the Soviet culture and now she feels like US politics and government are as corrupt as Russian government, except that in Russia, everyone knows everything is corrupt, and here, no one realizes it.

She refers to her upbringing as 'Russian' and only told me after the invasion of Ukraine that she is actually from eastern Ukraine. She said she always used to tell Americans she is from Russia because most Americans don't know anything about Ukraine, but that obviously changed recently, and she grew up in the USSR speaking Russian, anyway.

by Anonymousreply 117May 22, 2023 2:12 PM

Yeah we really don’t give a shit about this bitch. She doesn’t even live in Ukraine. So, enough.

by Anonymousreply 118May 22, 2023 2:28 PM

R117, is your friend from the Donbas region ethnically Ukrainian or ethnically Russian? I've known people from Ukraine who identified as Russian—didn't speak Ukrainian etc. That might explain some of her casualness about Ukrainian sovereignty.

by Anonymousreply 119May 22, 2023 2:45 PM

What if the Pilots, who will be flying our F-16's, go into Russian territory? What if they cross the border and bomb them or engage Russian fighter jets? I guess the answer is obvious, and that's what I'm afraid of.

by Anonymousreply 120May 22, 2023 2:45 PM

R117 it's not US democracy in general that's corrupt, it's US Republicans. If she's into the 'both sides' bullshit, well, she's well versed in her Russian heritage.

by Anonymousreply 121May 22, 2023 2:51 PM

R119 I assume she is ethnically Ukrainian but I don't really know. She has told me that Ukraine and Russia, especially the region she is from, have a shared history and that she grew up learning Ukrainian in school but that people in her region really spoke Russian and that the region trades primarily with Russia. She read Russian and French literature growing up and I have the sense that she didn't really have any sense of Ukraine as a national identity, but rather as a part of her region's foundational history. She also went to universities in Moscow and Siberia, I think. So it's obviously a very blurred line for her. But anyway, she was done with the whole soviet system 30 years ago and I guess she does feel detached now.

by Anonymousreply 122May 22, 2023 2:56 PM

We will run a campaign of guerrilla tactics inside Russian-occupied Ukraine, OP. That’s what will happen. In other words, terrorism.

by Anonymousreply 123May 22, 2023 3:28 PM

This Donbas woman sounds like ethnic Russian. She probably would have welcomed Russian tanks crossing the border in 2015.

I know some ex Soviet Union and Russia affiliated country people living in western democracies now who side with Putin. They are all disgusting far right lunatics.

by Anonymousreply 124May 22, 2023 9:56 PM

Ukraine war: Russia battles armed group in border region

An armed group has crossed from Ukraine into Russia's Belgorod region and clashes there have injured a number of people, Russian authorities say.

Local governor Vyacheslav Gladkov said Russian forces were searching for "saboteurs", who he said had attacked Grayvoronsky district by the border.

Vladimir Putin's spokesman said the Russian president had been informed.

Ukraine denies responsibility and said Russian citizens from two paramilitary groups were behind the incursion.

Mr Gladkov said eight people had been hurt, including two people admitted to hospital after a village was shelled and three people who were hit by shrapnel in the town of Grayvoron.

Fighting had also damaged three houses and a local administrative building, and the situation remains "extremely tense", he said.

The governor said a "counter-terrorist operation" had been launched in the region, giving special powers to the authorities including on identity checks and communications surveillance.

BBC Verify has been analysing footage from the Belgorod region that emerged on social media on Monday.

So far, the team has located a video apparently filmed from a drone that features several armoured vehicles near a border checkpoint south of Belgorod. Additionally, BBC Verify has geolocated footage of helicopters operating in the region.

The footage is recent, but it is hard to say for certain from the videos what the exact sequence of events is.

Kyiv said those behind the ongoing incident were from groups called the Liberty of Russia Legion and the Russian Volunteer Corps (RVC).

The Liberty of Russia Legion - a Ukraine-based Russian militia which says it is working inside Russia to overthrow President Putin - said on Twitter on Monday it had "completely liberated" the border town of Kozinka. It said forward units had reached the town of Grayvoron, further east.

However Mr Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov told Russian news agencies that efforts were underway to eliminate the sabotage group, and said its purpose was to draw attention away from the eastern Ukrainian town of Bakhmut - which a Russian mercenary group claims to have taken control of after months of intense and bloody fighting.

"We perfectly understand the purpose of such sabotage - to divert attention from the Bakhmut direction, to minimise the political effect of the loss of Artemovsk [Bakhmut] by the Ukrainian side," he said.

Kyiv says it still controls parts of the city.

Ukrainian presidential advisor Mikhaylo Podolyak said his country was watching events in Belgorod "with interest", but "has nothing to do with it".

"As you know, tanks are sold at any Russian military store, and underground guerrilla groups are composed of Russian citizens," he added.

Ukraine has previously denied responsibility for reported sabotage attacks on Russian territory.

BBC Verify: Satellites reveal Russian defences before major assault The latest incident comes ahead of a widely expected counter offensive by Kyiv against invading Russian forces.

In April, Russia accidentally dropped a bomb on the city of Belgorod, which lies 40 km (25 miles) north of the border with Ukraine.

More than 3,000 people were evacuated from their homes after an undetonated explosive was found days later.

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by Anonymousreply 125May 22, 2023 11:01 PM

Russia has reportedly removed its nuclear munitions from a storage facility in Belgorod following the seizures of settlements by Russian defectors fighting alongside the Ukrainian army.

Members of the Freedom of Russia Legion, formed mere weeks into Russian President Vladimir Putin's "special military operation" he launched on Ukraine last February, is made up of former Russian army members in addition to other Russian and Belarusian volunteers not previously part of military factions.

The Russian city of Kozinka was seized in the region—taken by members of the legion and the Russian Volunteer Corps (RDK). Ilya Ponomarev, an exiled Russian politician and political representative for the group, told Newsweek on Monday that its goal is "to liberate Russia from Putinism."

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by Anonymousreply 126May 22, 2023 11:05 PM

and here's an image of the nuclear weapons storage site at Antonovka, in #Belogorod via Google Earth.

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by Anonymousreply 127May 22, 2023 11:28 PM

McCain interview from 2015. He absolutely nails it!!

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by Anonymousreply 128May 24, 2023 1:48 PM
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