Anyone here been essentially single their whole life?

49. Single for the last 10 years and wouldn't change it. We live in a shallow world and dating isn't for me. I have found online dating, which I did for MANY years to be downright toxic and I decided it was easier to find happiness by myself.

Looling back, I STILL wouldn't trade my privacy, personal space, finances or time for a relationship. Aside from it being too hard to find to even be worth my time, it's also too risky for many reasons.

Looking* back

Yeah. I do look back and wondered where I could have pivoted so I wouldn't be single in middle age. But I'm so set in my ways it's almost impossible to see myself with a partner. But yeah, sometimes I mourn not having someone in my life. I have friends but it's not the same.

You can't force your heart or your dick.

Love happens when it happens IF it happens at all.

And even if you think you've found it, the old truism kicks in: "Nothing lasts forever, even you."

Here Here! I'm in my Early 40s. After a few early dalliances as a teenager/young adult, I've pretty much went fancy free every & untouched every since. I have sexual desires like anyone else but I've learned to squash & internalize them. Because of the negativity & suspicion surrounding MY sexuality during my formative years as a child/teen, I've never fully been comfortable with it. Coupled with the fact that I've had family and others I've trusted do HORRIC things to me over the years. I just don't trust people in any way, shape or form and I've learned to exist without them in my personal space.

THE PROS.....I've avoided all of the relationship drama & pain I've seen others endure. I don't have to compromise on a daily basis, be held accountable by anyone else or worry about having my heart broken by the one I trust the most.

THE CONS......as I've gotten older, I've started to mourn the lack of companionship. And I can't help but wonder that had I tried, would I have found my soulmate? Someone that would have had my back regardless of everything. I'll never know.....

Oh Dear myself at R5. Damn automatic "spell check". I'll overlook most of the grammar errors but HORRIC should read HORRIFIC.

Webmaster! Stealth Aspergers Thread!

Never had sex or a relationship and never wanted them. And always told those interested to fuck off.

Dealing with that shit is too much like work.

Much easier to jerk off and pay my own bills. I have an insured income and an exit plan for when I get tired of life, so I'm good.

[quote] I have sexual desires like anyone else but I've learned to squash & internalize them. Because of the negativity & suspicion surrounding MY sexuality during my formative years as a child/teen, I've never fully been comfortable with it. Coupled with the fact that I've had family and others I've trusted do HORRIC things to me over the years. I just don't trust people in any way, shape or form

R5 is just like me fr. I’m Millennial and femcel autistic though so perhaps there was never any hope for me regardless :/

R8 R9, REALLY?????????????????????????

R10, YES REALLY.

R11, is this due to your having zero interest in sex, or is there another reason?

I have a perfectly normal sex drive. I just don't want other people to deal with.

jerking off over a hot stud's photo is better than having to spend five minutes with a hot stud. They're always stupid, self-involved and otherwise fucking annoying.

R13, ah, ok. Got it. Guess I can sort of see your point in a way. Sure does eliminate a lot of troubles, but also positives. But, to each his own. Thanks for sharing.

R14, no worries! It works for me, may not for others.

To each his/her own...

If one has had a relationship in the past, that’s not the same as never having had a relationship, no matter how long ago the relationship was.

R16, and?

The whole thing is a mixed bag. Well, it be nice to have love in our lives. It takes a lot of work to maintain a relationship. But maybe someday my Prince Will come.

I amend my comments to say if that if I met someone whom I would change for...I would change for them.

But I ain't lookin'.

[quote]But maybe someday my Prince Will come.

Um, no. I'll make DAMN sure that doesn't happen.

I had one quite long relationship (8 years) a very long time ago. Since then, a number of shorter relationships. Though they all had their positive moments, they were mostly disasters. The only element common to all of them was me. So I figure I am not relationship material. I get lonely but I don’t want to inflict myself on another man. Except perhaps as a fuck buddy. I had several before COVID. But I may even be too old for that now. Still horny, though.

Welcome to my pity party!

Dated two guys when I first came out at 25 and whored it up throughout the rest of the 90s, 2000s, 2010s until I met a guy two years ago. I kept him at a distance until last January when I started dating him and falling in love. He was 18 years younger than me and had a life long heart problem and died in September. My one and only. I will whore my way through the rest of this life, until we meet again, if that garbage is real, or will finally stop loving him when I take my last breath.

[quote] They're always stupid, self-involved and otherwise fucking annoying.

How do you know if you haven't spent any time with anybody?

I was in two bad relationships, enough to scare the hell out of me to ever get involved with anyone ever again.

R21- Hoe old are you?

R22, I'm sorry that you've had to experience such a terrible loss. Sincerely.

My question for you is, is the reason you feel as if your late lover was "The Love Of Your Life" because you lost him before having had to go through the usual relationship trials and tribulations? (Infidelity, Money Squabbles, Trust Issues, Boredom, etc). Wouldn't you have the same "He Was The Love Of My Life" feelings if you had lost one of your past lovers during the dating process before things went sour?

My point is that a large portion of your grief & hopelessness may be the feeling of never knowing how far you and your late lover could have went if he hadn't have died. So he may not have been the love of your life and that person may still be out there. Is that a possibility?

Of course, I may be easy off the mark. This is just food for thought.

I should have been single all my life. I had three long term relationships (6, 8 and 16 years) and all three were full of love but also really difficult and challenging. Now that I've been single for 10 years I realize that I went into relationships mostly because I thought I was supposed to and I feared loneliness. I recently dated someone for a couple of months again and soon began to realize that I was not cut out for it, so I broke it off (we're still friends). I just can no longer deal with the infinite compromises, the negotiations, the trifle annoyances that fill most day. Love is not enough to compensate for the sacrifices anymore. It was when I was 20 and 30 and love was something new(ish) but now it's just not worth it.

OP- Me too. I’m 57 years old. I really yearn for it at times. My friend said I never tried hard enough to meet someone- which is true.

Believe it or not I have not yet given up on the possibility of meeting Mr. Right. He should be worthy of me and I worthy of him and be like minded- want generally the same things as me.

61 here and living in Los Angeles. I focused on my career and had fun. Now, I'm placing effort into changing that and looking for someone. For me, and this isn't great that I am saying, but I want someone to take care of me and I will do the same for him as that need comes.

Your chances of living healthier as you age are better as a couple and I want the companionship. Looking back I regret not developing my one night stands. I also worry that I might be too stuck in my ways to have a relationship - the whole compromise thing. I need to really take it slow, maybe live in our own places for awhile and then transition. I'm also looking at astrological signs in hoping that will help me find the right match.

[quote] Your chances of living healthier as you age are better as a couple.

Only if you're a man.

As my parents age, I've been watching my busy Mum round around after my deadbeat useless misogynist/homophobe Dad as well as after her reptilian mother (my last living grandparent), and all I can say is fuck that for a laugh. Women in committed straight marriages & relationships are treated like dogsbodies and used up by everyone around them, whether they have careers & kids or not. These men and these Olds ain't about to sacrifice me the same way.

The happiest and most vibrant and free middle-aged to elder women I see have no male partner/spouse, no kids and no parents still living in the picture. If I end up living and sleeping with anyone for a significant amount of time or frequency, it will be another woman for that reason alone. Preferably a woman who's an orphan or runaway or averse to big families.

I have been single all my life. I am in my early 50's, and not looking to be with someone. But if it happens, I will not be averse to it. It is nice to have a companion to share life.

"Your chances of living healthier as you age are better as a couple."

Not if your partner is driving you nuts. These generalizations are meaningless. You get what you get, regardless of the statistics.

I turned 60 this year and have been single for a long time. I enjoy my life, but I'd like to share it with another man. Truth is, I'm lonely. I want to eat dinner with someone. I don't teach on Mondays this semester. I take Mondays off from the gym. I want the sex, but I want just to talk to another man.

The single life isn't for everyone, those that need or want a relationship will never understand the desire to be single. At 71 there has only been once I wanted a relationship when I was totally infatuated with someone but it would have never worked out, we have remained friends for going on 20 years now, talk about being grateful for unanswered prayers. I am way happier being single than anyone I know in a relationship, it works for me, just because it wouldn't work for you does not mean there is anything wrong with me, just different.

Me, apart from one teen relationship and several years of being a sidepiece/FWB to someone with whom I thought I wanted more, but in retrospect I know it would have been a total disaster. If I really started getting close to someone, I know I would just screw it up and make him run away, so why bother starting something that will undoubtedly end in tears?

Maybe if I had gotten therapy for my low self esteem and neuroses years ago, I could have been more open to relationships, but at this point I really enjoy my own company and the complete freedom that comes with living alone.

Hi Michael! Good to see you on this thread!

Yes, and I don't wish to share anything about it.

Anyone here been essentially a bitch their entire life?

I've been single/uninvolved for the last 20 or so years. I like my life as it is and am afraid I wouldn't be open and receptive to a relationship. I cook and clean on my schedule. I shop for and buy what I want. I'm not sure I'd be flexible enough to allow someone else in at this point.

I'm 66, never had a LTR and right now I am looking for an Emergency Contact.

I have low expectations.

R10 why is that strange? What don't you get about it?

I hear you R30 and am in much the same boat. I remember my mom being part of a neighborhood volunteer group over 10 years ago and telling me, after visiting the home of many older neighbors, that when a spouse died the women sort of dove into their senior years and widowhood and most of the men kind of fell apart. She cried once telling me about a man in his late 70s who was living on 100% canned food because he didn't have any idea how to shop for or prepare food. Apparently a lot of the senior men also lived in pretty filthy houses.

I would love a companion but no longer have any interest in sex, so it would have to be a friendship type of relationship and straight men (I'm a straight woman) don't ever seem to get any better, in general, at understanding that when a woman says she wants to be friends it usually means just that (instead of 'but ofc I want to fuck eventually, and hopefully pretty soon'). At this point I would prefer to live with another woman as well.

I don't dislike men and I don't blame them for being the way they are (women are also the way we are) but when I entered my mid 40s I experienced a sudden dramatic lowering of my tolerance for tending to men (emotionally yes but also just in terms of cleaning up and making sure they made this or that appointment etc.). No kids, either, so at this point my feeling is kinda that I just want to have maximum fun. Lots of dogs and camping and eating good food and cooking and exploring and talking and that kinda thing.

53, always been single. Learned a few years ago I have fearful attachment issues (early narcissistic abuse family stuff), which I'm addressing through something called Ideal Parent Figure attachment and trauma repair work. The thing is, I've never had a secure attachment relationship, so I don't know what one could be like, or why it's worth the work and downsides. Like telling someone who's never tasted chocolate what they're missing. I think I'll probably always be single, even after the attachment insecurities have been fixed.

Hi, R25. I’m 66.

I agree with you r30

I’m 33 and have never been in a relationship and have never even really had the opportunity to date- I’m not sad about it; it’s just the hand I’ve been dealt. I guess if/when my situation changes, I’ll have to make a decision as to whether to start dating.

With his belting, screeching, squealing and Minnie Ripperton high notes on the last chorus, he finally managed to knock The Crazy Lady Singing 'I Will Always Love You' While Getting Kicked Off The Plane from atop of The American Airlines Hit Parade.

Oh Shit! Wrong Topic! LOL

Only child, the progeny of two only children. Always lived alone. Never been in a "relationship". Never thought I was missing something. Every time I go through the hell of other people, it reinforces my decision do life solo.

Now that I'm 70, I know I'm going to need an Emergency Contact number like R40. But . . . not just yet.

Most men who are toxic asshole cunts, like most DLers, will always be single. They will never know why everyone hates them.

R50 And speaking of toxic asshole cunts . . .

R51 Good comment, Golden Girls watching moron.

Yeah but it wasn't for lack of trying. I just couldn't make commitments. I had severe trust issues and liked my freedom. Then came the internet dating and just didn't like it. Now middle aged and think why fucking bother.

R52 just can't help herself.

I’m a 25 year old female and have never had a boyfriend. It sucks.

R54 I just really hate the Golden Girls worshiping cunts. You fossils need to end urselves.

R56 really can't help herself.

Go watch the Golden Girls, you tired cunt.

R58 Bile, Bile, MORE MORE B I L E!!

I love this guy on youtube. Einzelganger. This video is "Reasons Not to Fall in Love" (linked)

Other ones: Reasons to Remain Single; How to Be Alone; Why It's Better to Be Single; Falling in Love Sucks; Reasons Not to Have Sex ....

He's my guru.

r33, had no idea you were 60, after all these years, but it does make sense now that I think about it, lol.

Have been partnered for most of my adult life, including a virtual marriage for 25+ years. It did not end well. Have lived alone for the past 10 years but have been in various relationships, including a long-distance relationship for the last 4 years. We'll be retiring and moving in together and getting married this year. We don't have a lot in common but we make each other laugh. We both have low expectations as far as being each others' "savior". We will drive each other to numerous medical appointments. And we'll have a 3-bedroom house so that I can have my own room for getting stoned and vegetating with the internet all day while he watches re-runs of Match Game '74 featuring Brett Sommers and Fanny Flagg. He has a thick accent and I'm hard of hearing. We met by accident. Don't underestimate the power of ElderPeenis.

I'm inherently non-trusting, a loner, independent, and kind of live in my own head. But having had shared experiences with someone has perhaps made my life richer....? On the other hand, had I been single for those 25 years, I might have done some fabulous things on my own. Which would have probably meant just sleeping with more guys with problems, anyway. I hate sleeping alone. My cats were great after that breakup, but then they got old and died.

Relationships can be a lot of work and compromise, but it's more fun when you're old and don't care about almost anything except for being able to take a good piss. And then you just cuddle and say nothing because already know what the other is thinking -- whether you agree or not.

Am looking forward to being married again. I could probably survive being alone, but I get bored with myself. He's a few years older. My worst fear is not that our relationship will end due to arguments or cheating; it's that he'll die before me and then I'll be alone again, but not by choice. My guess is that the fear of loss (from whatever reason) is what keeps many men single. Humans are social animals. Relationships are a gamble.

It's better to be single than to be in a toxic relationship. I have to say I'm single today because I was the one who brought in the toxicity. It is better I don't ruin anyone else's lives.

I'm R42 so it's not like I'm here to convince everyone to couple up but people who build their personas around being single and telling everyone how much relationships suck (i'm talking about whoever that is with the Youtube channel at R60) and are just for weak people etc. strongly seem as if they're covering up some deep sense of insecurity or lack. I'm perfectly fine with people being coupled up or not and don't invest any ego points into strangers making the same life choices as me. I know why I'm single (fucked up childhood, so I'm fucked up, trust issues and low self esteem blah blah it's a familiar enough story but it's a true one in my case), I wouldn't turn down a wonderful person, but I also believe in being realistic and recognize that there are positives to both situations.

I’m okay with it, after I stopped trying to be “normal”. Not talking sex, just socially inept. Always on the outside, not quite getting it. I wasn’t an outcast until I chose to be. Combination of several factors: disordered self medicating parents, thread of alcoholism/mental illness in heritage, precocious intellect and too perceptive as a child….

I have been single most of my life, but for 30 years of that (21-51), I was quite active sexually. Some of my sexual partners ended up becoming close friends, and I've been lucky in sustaining some very good gay friends through the decades. I continue to make new friends as I age. I took care of my disabled mom for 20+ years, and that cramped my ability to look for a long-term partner, but, having had roommates in my youth, and having discovered through that, that I'm always the one to compromise in the interest of keeping the peace, I didn't spend a lot of energy in looking for a permanent companion. I'd rather be eccentric but true to myself at this time in my life. I use my friends as others use a companion. I call up friends and ask if they want to go to dinner, or to attend a film or play. I like to entertain in my own home and garden.

It has been my experience that gay couples feel threatened by gay single men, and don't generally socialize with them. As I get older and less sexually attractive, I find that they are more willing to be friends with me now, which I find amusing. I haven't changed, except physically.

R55 hon you probably dodged a lot of bullets staying single as a young girl. Teen/College boys ain’t shit, they’re dumb and rude and selfish and dirty, and older men who want -25/-21 girls are creeps.

Now you can date as a grown woman with some confidence and stature. It’s a better way to be.

I’ve been in a relationship since my early 20s. After graduate school, we didn’t have many gay friends because we were working our lives away. We always said we missed having a large group of gay friends because it was so fun when we were younger and the gaggles of gays on social media seem to be enjoying each other.

Over the last 5-10 years, we have been able to work much more reasonable hours and have made a lot of friends. Honestly, other than maybe 5 or 6 of them, we always say we would rather be by ourselves. We laugh about the days we thought we needed more friends because now it can seem like a burden.

Everyone is different, but I think as gay men we are bombarded with messaging that friends are more important than- or a substitute for a partner. For us, having a partner is more fulfilling and more enjoyable.

When they announce that the shooter was on Datalounge, we will all go to this thread to figure out which one of you did it.

celibate bacholerette. i found out but i didn't even get to fuck around first this is bullshit

For all you single guys: I made a decision a decade ago not to be alone and so I got into a relationship with a nice younger guy and figured, at 55, this would last me to the end. Possibly the worst mistake of my life: he has turned out to be much less than a stellar partner but for various reasons I can't extricate myself from the situation. I would have been so much happier staying single.

[quote] It has been my experience that gay couples feel threatened by gay single men, and don't generally socialize with them.

Amen. It's nearly impossible to make friends after a certain age because of this.

I made a choice a long time ago not to bring someone else into my crazy. In relationships you have to be selfless, I am selfish with my time and the things I enjoy. I am moody and when I like to be alone, I like to alone. I don't want anyone to sleep in my bed. I want them to do their business and then go home.

I've accepted the fact that I'm going to be alone and I'm okay with that.

I was single until I was 40. Single single single......for those lamenting their single status, I would say the following.

(1) I wish I had spent more time just getting involved in things, learning things, enriching my life - a class, a volunteering position, whatever. It would have added layers to my life, and that would be a positive whether I am single or coupled. It's so hard to make any connection - friendship or romantic - after 35 or so, after those bonding, walk-through-fire events like HS, college, work, etc.

(2) I should have made a firmer boundary to not play around with married/unavailable men. A hard cock wants what it wants, but I probably wasted a decade getting emotionally tripped up by men who were hot in bed, but just wanted me to be the side piece/validation of their hotness and nothing else.

With a corollary of (2b) - don't try to make a trick a boyfriend. Just send the trick on its way with bus fare and a long hot shower afterwards. LOL.

(3) Therapy works wonders. I wouldn't have been ready for the relationship that came my way without it. Therapy isn't about being perfect or "fixing" anything. And it can take a long time sometimes before the glacier moves. I am a wary, defensive person who has a hard outer shell that reads as "aloof" and it took me a long time to take enough bricks out of my brick wall to let my partner in. It may seem like long hard work but it IS worth it, if only to have a better understanding of the way that you're wired. And it isn't all about "ooh therapy means I'll get a new partner!" It's so healthy for every relationship in your life. For boundaries.

I was in a space when I met my partner that I would have been happy to remain on my own. But I am very lucky to be loved, and to have had his support during some recent medical woes.

R60, I like some of those Einzelganger videos, too. Watch out about making him your "guru," though. IIRC, he's a Jordan Peterson fan.

I am an only child so I have always lived my life alone to a great degree. I didn't like being lonely but being alone can be great. I enjoy my own company, I am never bored, and I have found that people who need other people around all the time are using them to distract from real problems. I have found that gay men - in general- are selfish, obtuse, mean, and sometimes immoral people who believe the rules don't apply to them because they are gay and society has rejected them. But I believe in family, and children and a social order that allows everyone to contribute and share. And as if to prove my point the gods sent me to me, at 53, a man I have loved all my life, and who loved me, but we could never really get together. Now we are a couple with his young daughters in tow, and I am suddenly a family man who is never alone until I get into the shower, and even then the cat follows me there. It was very awkward at first. I loved my space- everything placed where I put it- food uneaten and et al. But I would rather give up being alone to trade off being lonely and helping someone else have a happy life. And yes it can be extremely hard to be a " good wife" but at the end of the day where was being alone getting me?

being ugly sucks, growing up even my parents stay out till late to avoid being in the same house as me

R76 lmao felty. my grandmother has a more active social life than i do (she is a nasty skeksis tho so!!!)

R67, that answer is for another thread.

I am 53, and have basically always been single. I have had 3 "relationships," the longest of which lasted just over two months. They were nice guys, but I wasn't in love with them or anything. I mainly pursued relationships with them because I thought, "well, that's what you are supposed to do.

Once I turned 30 I realized that dating guys because I was "supposed to find someone" was unfair to them, and to myself. I like spending an hour or two with friends, but then I like to go home and be by myself. I don't want someone around all the time, and I will run out of things to say to them.

I had a lot of sex in my 20s and early 30s, but I don't really pursue that anymore. Every few years I will meet up with someone for a bate session, but other than that it is just easier to jack off at home. Less hassle, no fuss, no muss.

I don't have any interest in romantic relationships.

R52 Is a self loathing gay. He tries to convince himself that he's a non stereotype, just a regular guy who happens to be attracted to other men.

But it is transparently obvious that he is a vile, bitchy, mincing, bitter, screaming queen devoid of any personality. We should pity him as difficult as that would be.

I was single until I was 50 when I met my partner randomly on vacation. He is 15 years younger and wasn't out at the time. Now we live together happily for the most part. As a single man, it was a different kind of happy. More content I think. I spent too much time chasing dick. Too much time in my career. I love my partner dearly and and so grateful I met him. When you add people into your life, their problems become yours - their health, their finances, their family. That is something I am still getting used to. I was so used to not having to deal with other people's problems. It is worth it to me. But for those who are single, maybe look for a wonderful companion rather than a hot fuck stud. Sex becomes less and less important very quickly. Just enjoy things in life either alone or with someone. It'll all be over before we are ready.

R61, are you suggesting I'm an old dud? Ha!!

Would you like to meet for a drink?

Someone mentioned that women who never marry are happier and healthier etc. They were a pair of twin sisters who lived in Mt Vernon , New York. They were school teachers earlier in their lives and neither of them ever got married ( maybe they were DYKES- who knows) but they lived to about 103 and 104 years old.

Threads like this are why I value the datalounge.

OP thanks for posting. I'm turning 36 this year and I"m afriad I will end up all aloner. I have never dated. I have some issues from childhood that I am dealing with in group therapy and personal therapy.

Against my better judgment I skimmed through the post. It wasn't as horrible as I thought it would be.

I don't feel like such a loser now. I wish I'd been braver. I am lonely and miss companionship.

R87- Braver?

Is your name Toula Portokalos?

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, R88.

R89- She's the main character in My Big Fat Greek Wedding. She's become an Old Maid early in the movie and her father who's old himself keeps complaining that SHE looks so OLD. She makes a speech about wishing that her life was different and that she was braver and prettier - which sounds like a Gay mans lament.

Often we're made to feel bad for being single, like there's something wrong with us. But being in a relationship isn't like other goals. If you study a language every day you will get better at it. If you exercise regularly you will become healthier. You're only dealing with your own will and desires. If you're looking for a relationship, you could do everything "right" (be attractive, kind, financially and mentally stable, etc.) and you could still end up alone, because you're dealing with someone else's will and desires. I'm not going to feel bad about something I don't have much control over.

I've been single for most of the past eight years, since a long term relationship ended. I just find most people horrible. You meet someone and start dating them, and then they turn out to be cruel, dishonest, or have really irritating habits that would make cohabiting impossible. Never mind the stress of wondering if they'll cheat on you or stick by you in difficult times.

I think if you're single, you're at least not being constantly let down. You *know* you can't rely on a partner, so you make an effort to build a network of friends and become more self reliant. Another positive is not having to compromise. I didn't realize how much I compromised on pretty much everything while in a relationship. There were so many things I'd love to have done in my twenties that I missed out on because my partner didn't want to do them. Now I can just do what I want. If I want to travel somewhere, I just go, without an argument about leaving someone behind. If I want to stay up until 5am writing, I can do it without worrying about disturbing someone else when I go to bed. It's very freeing.

R87 chin up

Chins up!

Is this gentle teasing or are you just cunts? There's no inflection. I can't tell.

^^why I love coming here and keep coming here--makes me feel so much less autistic lol

Me too OP. In my 40s.

I have a lot of shame about it. It’s interesting seeing how many of us there are.

I’ve been functional in the other areas of my life - school, employment, friends, family, physical health, no substance abuse issues, no serious mental illness beyond some general anxiety and depression, etc.

But this one (huge) area of my life, I just can’t get my shit together. And as the years pass, I become more and more avoidant and more ashamed about it.

Anyway - good thread.

I understand, R97. No easy answers, but I hear you. It's such an uphill battle if you're aiming for that rare mix of happy and stable. Velvet Rage, all that bullshit... there's a lot of hurdles to clear.

that bitch Minority Stress has a lot to answer for

You’re 59? You’re one year older than most of Datalounge.

I am Done with relationships, for some reason narcissists are attracted to me. Sick of all the BS that goes into a relationship as such. Glad to be Single. Goin for the dinner and a fuck buddy. Nothing more !

[quote]I am Done with relationships, for some reason narcissists are attracted to me.

Like attracts like.

^^^ you know nothing about narcissism

Far better to be single than to wish you were single.

[quote]^^^ you know nothing about narcissism

I’m not you.

Me!

Recently I turned 59 myself. After two and a half decades of dating sexy guys I wasn't in love with and a couple crypto-narcissists I thought I loved, I realized I just never saw myself as a gay-married guy and my time, energy and sanity were better spent not endlessly interviewing Mr. Next.

I was instantly happier and plan to remain so.

Datalounge is nothing but 58 year olds. It’s beyond freaky^. It’s alien or something.

I am 57 years old as I mentioned earlier. My theoretical boyfriend/partner I would like to be in his 40's. Is that too young for me?

It's not down to a choice of single forever or coupled forever. I've dated a rather small handful of people at different stages of my life but have only had twovery serious relationships over 45+ years, the first for a few years, the second, many years later, of 8 years now, begun when I was in my mid-50s.

When I was single I was happy being single. I had lots of sex with lots of men, and had a great time. I also loved being on my own. I was never adamantly opposed to partnerships, but always thought my expectations were so high that my chances were inversely low. And that was entirely fine.

That I have had two serious, long-term relationships owes in a big way, I think, to having known to how to be happy on my own. Happy as I was, I never contemplated hunting for a partner, and knew that should the prospect arise it would have to be an extraordinary thing and one that built on who I was as an individual, not just half of a pair.

I know some people seem unable to manage without having a new relationship fast on the heels of the last one, and others swear off for fear they will be broken, or their money diminished, or otherwise too busy girding themselves against loss. But there's also a big middle ground.

I'm 53, lesbian. I've been single most of my life but have had a few relationships. One was 5 years, the next a year, then a 7 year one and the last one which ended in 2014 was a year.

I have a really hard time meeting anyone I'm remotely interested in. I am not a typical lesbian and hate most of the stuff that a lot of lesbians are into such as sports and drinking and hanging out with your exes. I make a point to not remain friends after a relationship ends as I feel it's really unhealthy. Usually there are unresolved feelings or someone is bitter and it's just not worth it unless a long period of time has passed. I tried online dating but the only people who hit me up are transwomen and I'm NOT interested. I'm also really tired of lesbians who are pillow princesses in bed...who just lay there expecting me to do all the work. I'm femme and like other femmes but most of them suck in bed.

Last year, I met a younger woman who was clearly interested in me. She was probably the most beautiful woman I've ever seen but she still lived with her ex girlfriend. All my friends were telling me to go on a date and I kept resisting until I finally relented and we went out. There was a chemistry with her that I have never felt before and she mentioned it too. Then her ex started telling her she "had a curfew" and then told her she wasn't allowed in my house or car because she was worried I would give her covid. After the 4th date when things were starting to get serious, she suddenly called it off. I said, "Ok, no contact" and two days later she was begging me to talk to her saying she was in love with me. It was all so fucking confusing and drama filled. I'm too old for that shit. I tried having some contact with her despite my best judgement...until she texted me telling me she was at a gay pride event with the ex at which point, I told her I'd had enough and cut off the contact.

Come to find out, she or the ex has told mutual friends that I was a stalker, which is hilarious because anyone who knows me know I always go no contact with exes, not to mention I had all the texts from here where she was begging me to talk to her.

After that experience, I think I'm pretty much done with dating. I actually love being single and I'm just realizing from looking at all my friends who are in bad relationships that it just isn't worth it anymore.

It sucks and at times it would be really nice to have someone to share my life with but I also cannot put my heart out there to be broken anymore. I don't even want pets because I'm so tired of my heart breaking when they die. I have a lot of close friends...people I've known for over 20 years and one I've known since 1976. I go out with my friends a lot and I rarely get lonely.

56 and mostly single all those years. was discussing this with a friend and he asked me "Can you think of ONE gay couple you know that you envy? Where you say to yourself 'I want what they have?'" The answer is 'no'. All of the human catastrophes I've known were always coupled. That's just my limited experience and I'm happy for any happy couples out there.

R110 brilliant and thoughtful comment. I hear from many lesbians who feel the same way.

Do you suppose that being lesbian automatically makes it more likely to be single/harder to find someone? Given the dating pool is so much smaller and rather incestuous, plus the tendency to nest then endure LBD. Or is there a different underlying reason?

R112, yes it's much harder for lesbians especially with the death of lesbian bars to meet anyone. Online dating is so tedious as most the women who go on those sites are straight looking for a unicorn to have a triad with their boyfriends. Or they are men. Not to mention how many online dating sites will kick you off if you say you don't want to date transwomen. There is something to be said for chemistry and that you can only really get with a person face to face. I'm too old to go to the rare lesbian nights at gay clubs and those are usually filled with the 20 somethings anyway.

I've had friends tell me I need to "put myself out there more." I don't even know what that means. Where is "there?" I have never been a uhaul lesbian although I know plenty of them and to me, they seem desperate to never be alone and that is a major turn off. I really enjoy living alone. I've never lived with anyone past age 19. I don't understand the incestuous nature of lesbians. Even the girl I was dating last year, her ex had been a friend of her ex girlfriend who moved right in as they broke up. It's just a weird, sick environment that seems so high school to me. Granted I'm not the worlds' greatest catch but I am a funny, kind and loving person who wants to meet someone who can meet me at my level and it just seems like it's not going to happen for me. I did run into an ex recently and she introduced me to her wife and it was a really great conversation. I'm so happy that she went on to find someone much more compatible to her. I wish all my exes well but I don't need to be bff's with them.

Interesting to hear about lesbians hanging around with old girlfriends, U-Hauling, etc. A close family member, who's a lesbian, fits into that stereotype. Immediately moving in with whoever she's dating.

Another thing I noticed is how intense the lesbian relationships were. Seemed like there was endless consulting between my family member and her partner just to make simple plans (for dinner, etc.). Lots of checking in with each other, etc.

I'm mid-50s and been single all my life. Not sure if I'd call it essential, however. It's worked out well for me. I'm very independent and self-sufficient, and enjoy being untethered. It is, however, more expensive as our economy is built to favor couples.

I'm the opposite, been in relationships or married the majority of my adult life. First relationship was 19 and since then I have had maybe 5 years total of freedom.

Once I accepted it in myself I realized it's what I prefer and soon enough I started loving life again and made tons of new friends who I can call family. It's ok to be ACE, OP!

At 50, I met my now partner, he was 35. But I thought he was more like 37. We are so different in many ways but the same in enough ways that matter. But I remember at the beginning repeatedly telling myself, " don't get too far in your head. Don't talk yourself out of it. Don't look for ways he is different. Just enjoy being together. See where it goes. Let if flow. I had never been great at that approach. But it was the right approach for me on this one for sure. Glad I took the leap. I was on vacation by myself for the first time when I met him. I remember before that trip thinking it was sad I had no one to go on vacation with. But I said fuck it. You can do this. So grateful I did.

59 sgwm here, no real long term relationship to speak of, I'm fine with occasional sex romps now and again, I'm too busy and set in my ways, live alone with pets, and very Happy that way. I've never felt that feeling where I want to be with someone 24 hrs a day, and forever. I think we'd end up killing each other... lol. Just being honest. :-)

[R97]. Could have written the same post myself. Have never understood when I’m always perceived as a potential friend rather than boyfriend. Try not to think about it too much or it really brings me down

Yes, I've been single my whole life.

I tried dating a few women when I was younger and that was all the proof I needed that I was gay. When I went the other way, it was so unfulfilling. One guy I dated was sweet but had a bed covered in dolls. I didn't stay the night.

Another wanted me to lie on top of him. Weird. Still another had a house decorated with African art that was so over the top, it resembled a museum. Worse, he was boring.

I never came close to meeting a Mr. Right. So, I decided I would live my life on my terms. I had several demanding jobs that took up a lot of my time. I developed warm and fulfilling friendships and never looked back.

Now, I am too old to want anything more than the companionship of my rescue dog.

I have a great house in a small community of nice and agreeable people. I read and write. And watch a lot of movies on disc and on Netflix. I am content with the way things are and have no regrets.

I think it was comedienne Rita Rudner who said, "I want a man in my life...just not in my house."

I wish I spent more time being single. I didn't take a lot of time to reflect and learn in between long term relationships, until later in life.

R122 love that!

As a febfem, it really hits home for me too. While it's not something I like admitting or accepting I am attracted to men as well as women, but for the sake of my peace and sanity and wellbeing if I'm ever moving anyone into my place and letting them take up space in my bed (and I don't want to) it has to be another woman not a man.

Man my life is already host to a messy, dirty, needy, whiny, greedy, stinky animal (my pet Lab, whom I love and don't resent for his mess, to be clear), so I don't need another animal to clean up after.

R110? Damn, you brought back a lot of bad memories.

Until I lost my sex drive after menopause, I was driven by hormones and the deep-seated belief that if I were single, there was something wrong with me. The lesbian community in my somewhat large adopted city was insular and vicious. Rumors ran rampant, and the drama was constant. I always felt like there was some kind of lesbian rule book that taught lesbians how to act that I had never been privy to. I never "fit in," but some of the things these women did to each other were, to my mind, shockingly immoral, so I suppose it was just as well. I'd had relationships of 5, 4, 1, and 3 years respectively. All ended badly. I too am a magnet for narcissists; they prey on people whose emotions are easy to read and easily manipulated. I always used to say that "my type" was "gorgeous, brilliant, and crazy," and it was true. There was so much "dyke drama" in my life... But only now that it's been gone for many years do I see what a psychological burden it was.

I am so incredibly grateful that, in 2008, my sex drive disappeared. I have been single and celibate ever since. I no longer have to choose where I live based on the size of the lesbian community (there isn't one here), I don't feel that primal drive to "get laid" that led me to do things I wish I hadn't, and I am certain that I am a good and decent person and that indeed, I myself am enough.

I wish I would have learned these things sooner. But my life now is peaceful and my little dog loves me to pieces. So there's that.

I'm 49 and have been single my whole life. I joined a gay middle-aged men's group. There's a guy I kind of like, but I try to imagine myself with him, and I can't see it. I think I will just continue to be single. I'm so used to it. I like my independence.

R125 makes me curiously relieved to have been a depressed backwoods femcel all my 30 years of life. Seems like I haven't missed out on as much as I'd thought.

[quote] Some of the things these women did to each other were, to my mind, shockingly immoral.

R125 well you can't just drop that fascinating dark little detail and *not* expand. This is DL honey!

Oh R128, you know -- the cheating (including married women cheating on their unknowing husbands with lesbians), the lying, the sneaking around, lesbians who constantly dangle the possibility of sex but keep it just out of reach (in another context this would be called being a "cock-tease"), using older women for $ (something I never saw until I moved to FL), the serial monogamy, including lining up the next girl before they were done with the last one -- just the usual bullshit.

And I guess the reason I was so shocked is 1) because I'm from PA Dutch country and 2) frankly, I expected higher moral values from lesbians than from folks involved in other kinds of relationships. Boy, was I wrong. Live and learn!

^

[quote] "It's just blatant disrespectful, and it's tacky...and I guess I'm not used to it, because I was raised like a Gentleman, a *classy Gentleman*. And that's over with, now, that Era."

I should have stayed single, rather than have settled for Jeff.

R129, yep, those are the things I'm over, too. It's funny you mention the dangling of sex because that's exactly what the last girl I dated did to me. Kept saying that she "didn't want to go too far." I'm a grown ass woman. . After the 2nd or 3rd date, either sex happens or you get the fuck out. I just can't with these women anymore.

Pretty much, OP. I mean, I had a two year "relationship" the last two years I was in college... but I spent over a year of it wishing I weren't in it (he was a serial cheater). I finally was able to break it off when I graduated and moved out.

I had a couple of two-three month flings after that. One was seriously damaging (I didn't know what a "narcissistic sociopath" was before then, but I sure do now), and the other was incredibly boring.

Other than a handful of dates that didn't go anywhere, that's the sum total of my relationship life. Oh, I've had a bunch of sex in my 30s (mostly one night stands or group sex at parties or at sleazy bars), but pretty much nothing since I turned 40.

I'm nearly 60 now and I'll die alone. I gave up even TRYING to date more than ten years ago. It's not worth it.

R8 is Frieda Klagston.

Not 'essentially'... I'm gold star ace at 36. Never been in a relationship and never sex.

I used to make excuse after excuse for avoiding sex. And when I was younger, I may have reacted a bit poorly to overtures because I wasn't aware and panicked. I regret any inadvertent unkindness. But eventually I realized that I just don't want a relationship and I really really love living alone.

There were clues. I don't particularly like physical contact, though I can suppress that enough to hide it. My favorite times as a kid was when everyone else was out of the house. I've been fortunate enough to be financially secure, and coming home to my empty place still feels like that. I prefer visiting friends than having them visit me.

Are you a woman, r135?

r135 I'm very similar. People seem confused about why I'm not lonely and they feel sorry for me, but I genuinely enjoy my own company. I have had relationships in the past and they were extremely stressful. One partner just couldn't let me decompress, which I often do by posting online or reading. He saw that as a pointless waste of time and wanted me to interact with him all the time. I was constantly drained and irritable from not getting my need for alone time met, and of course that also upset him.

I have to say, I find most people incredibly codependent. One coworker told me he was dreading the weekend because his partner was out of town and he'd be alone. That's just pathetic in my eyes. A 40-year-old man can't enjoy a weekend alone?

R92 what are some examples of those irritating habits?

R104 True story

R138 things like repeatedly snoozing the alarm when they had to get up early and I didn't. So I was basically woken up much earlier than I needed to be up so they could press snooze every ten minutes for an hour. Or leaving skid marks in the toilet.

R135/R137 me three! Though I'm a bit younger (30).

All of your comments could have been mine! Love having the bed and the house to myself, love quiet, love long hours and days on my own just to let my mind wander and my body calm down. And the panic when someone does crack on....yeah I've felt that :/ and I too hope that no-one got too hurt by my confusion and negative reaction. I do not get it when my sister starts constantly texting me or asking to come over only when her fiancé is out of town, I'm like just enjoy the peace and let me have mine too lol

Won't speak for others, but for me idk what it even is about sex and flirtation and intimacy (physical & emotional) that puts me off so much--it's not like I was abused as a youngster or anything, and I don't even hate physical contact, though my teachers always asked me about that because I'd flinch away or get upset if someone tried to hug me that wasn't my Mom or my sister. Sometimes I do actually daydream about having recicprocal intimate moments and connections, but I know that the reality wouldn't match my fantasy and would come with too many conditions impossible for me to meet, so I forget it. Celibate singledom or unrequited pining seems like it will be my lot in life.

Actually, what bugs me more and gets me down in life is the lack of a consistent lifelong friendship group. With maturity, it's coming to a point where I don't care if I never date or fuck, or never fall in love again (it's painful to just waste away for someone in silence), but I really do feel like it hurts that there's no-one in this world who isn't related that me that knows me and cares about me and wants to spend time with me. I watch platonic groups with close bonds and feel so much jealousy and longing.

I am 63 and had one very bad relationship that lasted for 6 months. Other than that, I’ve been single my entire adult life. Pretty sure I’m on the spectrum and am impossible to live with.

r141 why don't you make some friends? I have met many of my friends playing recreational sports. Even if you're not good, join a community softball team or basketball team or sign up for some martial arts lessons.

You make friends by being curious about people and by finding folks who enjoy the same things you do. Hell, even the library near me has writers groups that meet once a month. Book clubs, art classes, cooking classes...these are the places where friends are made.

Yup. I'm 36. I'm ugly and live in a small town. It's not exactly easy to meet anyone. I have just accepted I will forever be alone. Thank god I'm used to it by now.

R143 I'm not the same poster, but have found it really hard to make friends in my thirties, especially with the pandemic. I think a lot of people became really content with their own company through the lockdowns and forced isolation, and now forcing themselves to go out and meet strangers feels really unappealing. It doesn't help that there's now the extra stress of the possibility of getting really sick from a social event. I caught Covid last month and am still feeling terrible. It's made me even more wary of being around groups of people or doing indoor sports.

That's an interesting observation, r145. I think the pandemic really changed how we socialize. However, doing an outdoor sport activity is pretty safe and when you're part of a team, you are forced to interact with others. It really is a great place to meet people. Two friends of mine I've known for over 20 years I met on a team. Another one I've known for about 6 years and she's become one of my closest friends. I totally get what you're saying although Covid is here to stay and we are the most protected now than we can be. We just have to accept that, like the flu which can also be deadly, we might catch it but if we have our vaccines we will get thru it. I'm sorry you are still feeling lousy after a month. I had Covid and it was like a mild cold to me but I had all the updated boosters when I caught it.

best to live your OWN LIFE and if you need sex besides your hand 1) have "friends" with benefits and/or 2) just hire the best escorts if you can afford it.....

it's okay if you WANT a relationship, but to NEED one and desperately so I think is a issue, not being "single" for your entire life and everyone questioning that and why....

R146 I've also had every booster available to me, and I'm only 37. I was really surprised it hit me so badly...the cough was waking me up at night for 3-4 nights and the fatigue is still have is awful. I never used to get that sick from colds or the flu. It's made me even more wary of putting myself into situations where I'm more likely to catch it.

R143 that's a good question, and it all seems so simple, doesn't it? Just hang around and do things long enough, and you'll inevitably make friends. Alas, even through effort and observation and sincere attempts to join groups, I've never been able to become part of one. For whatever reason, no matter how long I stay somewhere and participate, I just can't get comfortable in secure relationships, and I never can stay central to anyone's life, always finding myself on the periphery or pushed out sooner or later. It's like people forget about me, or use me as a social placeholder until they find others they like better, or they find me boring? Idk. It's even been happening in online spaces more and more, which used to be my refuge, so I'm even getting stung by random anons.

Though for years I've done bursts of therapy and introspected lots, meditated and journalled, gone out and tried to be around others, even tried to change or hide parts of my personality to get along easier, nothing seems to change the outcome. And I don't really believe I'm an abrasive or horrible person who cannot have friends, though I can certainly be evasive and guarded (tends to be my default setting). There are positive traits about me, too, like I'm very accepting and encouraging and a decent listener even to those I don't know. Still, I'll keep working on myself while I'm alone.

R145 has a point, and isolations/lockdowns have noticeably impacted everyone's social motivation and confidence, no question. That said, I've been a loner and a recluse for a long time, long before the pandemic, so that all seemed like business as usual to me and I can't use that as a good excuse.

It's been long enough since I've had a consistent friend (a little over 10 years now, someone I spent a couple of years with in College), that I've started to feel hopeless of anything changing. Plus, there's the fact that people under 30 have the highest success rate making and keeping lifelong friends. After that it's all just transactional and transitional, which for me would be unsatisfying. For me I guess it's that I long for deep close bonds without exclusivity or labels or expectations.

Sorry, this is a downer post. Hopefully it won't dent anyone else's confidence. Just wanted to share my experience. Wish there was an easy answer and explanation, but I'm yet to find one..

It's hard to make friends as you get older. Especially if you don't drink alcohol.

Not a downer post, r149. I've noticed that people 40 and below really are lacking in social skills thanks to texting/social media/etc. I'm mid 50's and my friends who are the same age, are always discussing how it's so weird to meet people in their 20's and 30's who have zero social skills. They don't ask questions because they don't seem curious. When you meet them they don't know how to start a conversation and if you start one, they don't know how to participate. It's really sad how society has diminished since cell phones and the internet came around. When I meet someone, the first thing I ask is where they are from and what they do. People love to talk about themselves if you just ask. I've been told I am "easy to talk to" but it's not because there is anything special about me, it's that I'm genuinely curious about people. I love to hear stories of their lives and I can often interject things that let them know I am listening and really do care. I've lived an interesting life and have some great stories to tell so IF they ask, I can engage easily. I also have a sense of humor about myself and my life and don't take myself too seriously which helps immensely in social situations. And I have all sorts of interests in my life such as writing, biking, doing martial arts, video games, watching history shows and educating myself on fascinating tid bits that not a lot of people know.

I recently ran into an old friend from High School and I was catching up with him and I asked, "So what do you do for fun?" and he looked at me like a deer in headlights and said, "I don't know. I watch tv, I guess." And that was pretty much the end of our conversation because this guy had nothing in his life to talk about. It made me sad for him. I think if you have at least one thing in your life that you have passion for it helps to find some common ground with others. One of my friends said to me, "Do you know how many lives you live? It's awesome!" I had never really thought about it but she was right. Stop worrying about making friends or finding a partner and find something you enjoy, no matter how weird or stupid. I promise you you will meet people who are either passionate about the same things or are curious about why it's important to you.

Yeah, what I enjoy is avoiding other people. I watch TV and play Xbox, and read. And eat. And sleep. Sleeping is under-rated.

I leave the house to grab food (eat out or get takeout) or go to the grocery store. That's about it.

Love you, R42.

R152 hikis unite lol

Leaving the house for anything unnecessary is always an ordeal for introverts, and extroverts & ambis don’t get it. Subjecting the Self to People and Situations that throw off the vibe..nah

R124/anyone, what is a Febfem? Thanks.

r152, what kind of games do you play?

R155 febfem means a FEmale Bisexual FEMinist who chooses not to have sex or couple up with men for sociopolitical reasons. So they look like lesbians to outside observers, but are in fact not.

Oh dear god, enough with the stupid labels.

How do we add them to LGBTQIA ?

R23...you have to spend relationship-level time with someone to know they're fucking annoying?

Five minutes is all it takes me.

R158/R159 except febfem isn’t a sexuality-spaghetti label, it’s a political ID only used in or by feminist circles. So you don’t need to worry about it and can chill.

Crazy thing is I have never been single. I met my husband when I was 22 and really came out just the summer before that. I never dated anyone until him and we've been together 26 years. Sometimes I wonder just the opposite kind of "What if..."

I'm 31 and have been single all my life and I fucking hate it. I truly hate it and didn't want this for myself.

I wasted my teens in the closet. But found another closeted teenager in my county, rural midwest. Problem is, I was graduating and heading off to college. He wanted to actually date but I broke that off and maybe missed that opportunity. I went to a small, conservative college, in a conservative southern city, and failed to ever come out of the closet. So, I spent my college years, when I should have been young and fun, in the closet.

I graduate and stick around that city a couple more years. Never dating, only some hookups, but desperately alone. I decide to move to the big city. I need a change, I'm in my late 20s, too much time has passed. I move to the big city, decide not to lie on day one of work, when a younger co-worker outright asks me if I'm gay. Been out ever since. I feel good. I'm finally being honest with friends and family. Surly, this would lead to the next frontier, a relationship!

Nope, I go on a few dates but nothing comes of it. Typing this out, I actually can't remember the last date I've gone on. I had brief summer fling last year. But I called it off after the sweet man tuned out to be way more feminine than expected. He slowly brought out the purses and lipstick. That's just not my style.

So, I sit in despair (Mary!) as I watch year after year role on by. I thought I wanted kids after getting married. But at 31, I just gave up on that idea. I'm slowly giving up hope on the boyfriend idea, much less marriage.

I'm happy man of you are fine being single, but I didn't ever want my life to be like this. Coming out changed nothing. Moving changed nothing. Joining gay sports and charity organizations, changed nothing. Even sticking to a strict diet and exercise (my abs) changed nothing (my face card is probably a 6). Clearly, I'm not a desirable pattern. That brutally hurts, but I'm working on accepting my fate.

On the bright side, I'm not poor or sick.

We are all happy for you, r162. Tell us more about your luck.

R133- You haven’t had sex since you were forty?

That makes you a virgin again.

I’m 57 and I have sex still every few weeks.

R163, I know it doesn't feel that way but 31 is so young. You have plenty of time to meet someone. Please don't give up or accept your fate, etc.

I felt that way when I was 31 and now I'm 43 and WISH I was still 31 and could go back and do over my 30s in terms of dating.

Do not waste your 30s with negative thinking about relationships. You have time. FFS, plenty of straight people meet their partners in their 30s!

I'm trying not to waste my 40s and I already feel like it's too late for me.

MARY!!!!!!!

[quote]You haven’t had sex since you were forty?

I had sex once when I turned 50 when I bought myself an escort. He was hot. But... wasn't the most satisfying experience.

Other than that, the closest i cam was fondling a few strippers and a couple of lap dances.

I don't think that counts. And none of that for the last six years.

I am a loner. There are moments when I am lonely but overall I treasure my solitude.

I found relationships difficult. Part of it is that even in my 40s I don’t have it all together. But I also found relationships too much work and ultimately unhappy. I don’t think everyone is cut out for them, and there is nothing wrong with that. Many people are in relationships because they don’t want to be alone, don’t want to be single or seen as single. But many of them seem lonely.

R167 sorry to hear about your escort experience; how come it didn't work out?

Have myself been privately considering hiring someone for a night or two this summer to break me in and teach me the ropes, as I feel held back and left out because of my adult virginity, but am also really afraid of backlash like shaming or confrontation or assault for being a frigid tease if I freak out or back out of my first time (I'm female bi, so it's a serious concern and sadly something that could easily happen). So I figure maybe if I explain my situation to a higher end and more respectable escort agency, they could link me up with a more patient gentle easygoing SWer who can guide me in an objective way and who also doesn't mind if I freak or feel I can't go through with it (as I'll pay the agreed fee anyway, it would be a calm easy night of work for them). It takes the pressure and the emotion and the guesswork out of it.

Perhaps that's not a realistic expectation or plan and I can't do that, though. I really don't know much about SW at all, I don't move in the kind of circles where their work or their employment is accepted and talked about.

It has been suggested to me before by DLers when discussing this that all I need to do is make a casual friend (ideally another woman who is bi or lesbian) and ask them for a shortterm FWB arrangement, but the issues with that idea are that I live in a small backwoods town where we don't get a lot of people coming or going and the community like to gossip; that I have trouble making friends at the best of times and with purer intentions; and that tbh I think I prefer not to mix friendship with sex (a couple of former friends in my past tried to hook up with me, and I was repulsed). Plus, anyone I can hook up with of a suitable and similar age to me (at the youngest 22, at the oldest 35) is probably not going to be a complete 100% kissless virgin and won't expect me (30) to be either, yet finding and choosing another virgin to fuck is only going to make my/our sexual confidence worse and therefore we'll be even more likely to avoid it. So to me that solution seems even harder and more fraught and anxiety-provoking, not to mention unlikely to help.

R167- Why don't you try your luck at a bathhouse?

R169, are you interested in losing your virginity with a male or a female?

R171 tbh I don't know as I seem attracted to both theoretically. Even fantasising doesn't make it very clear, because I find it difficult to imagine myself in direct sexual scenarios, though I have no problem or aversion to fantasising in general.

Pragmatically, a woman would be safer and easier to handle for a first time; at least I'd know where all the parts go and what they do, plus there'd be less reason to panic or fear. Or perhaps both at the same time might help? At least then they could focus on each other and give me a real-life close-up demo to observe, in case I couldn't bring myself to participate.

What kind of head space will R169 have to be in to make this work? Because it is a transaction. There is nothing genuine about it except that people have sex. Which is great, but there's no affection, no attraction, no mutual lust, none of the emotional or mental spark that makes even a basic horny tonight hookup fun and exciting. I'm agnostic about sex work, I get it, but (granted never having done it) I struggle to figure out how it works on a human level.

Also, I'd suggest you go for a guy. I don't know why but I feel like if you're buying another person to fuck, there's less chance of coercion where men are involved than women.

R173 It's not exactly sex with a robot. I was a sex worker in my early 20s. I enjoyed sex and had nothing to lose. And being a human being, there was a concern, a care for a client. You can't really do sex work IF you don't like people. You'll end up killing someone eventually. I enjoyed the sex and I enjoyed seeing someone else enjoy themselves. I know not all escorts are like that. But there are a lot of escorts who provide more than just a transactional sexual exchange.

Actually R169, I would suggest starting with a sensual massage therapist. That way you won't be concerned with having to "perform," do things you don't feel confident doing. Let them touch you while you lay back. I think that would be a great introduction to sex and receiving pleasure from another person. It is very one-sided, meaning that the experience is all about you and not making the other person orgasm. You might really discover things about your body, your turn ons, which you never knew existed. Good luck.

R174, interesting. Not what I expected to hear. Thx.

R169 do you watch porn? I think some basic free porn might give you a little bit of an intro guide.

R176 funnily enough yes. Actually for a virgin/celibate I've seen quite a lot and not all vanilla or straight. So I know pretty well what various types of sex & masturbation look and sound like mechanically. Tbh though, after several years of casual viewing, it just made me more anxious & scared, particularly as women performers often aren't treated well or in a good mental space, and as it seems 'regular' porn is getting more extreme and violent with the passage of time. As I've matured, I've found it's started to turn me off and make me really uncomfortable in ways it didn't used to (growth?).

R174 thank you so much for the kind words of encouragement and for the insight. You sound like a truly sympathetic and decent person, with strong emotional presence. It's sad the way SWers are still stigmatised as cold soulless sociopathic hustlers to the last, when it certainly isn't true in all cases. In the Ancient World, concubines and prostitutes and Vestals had to prioritise their connection with both humanity & spirituality--I wonder when our world lost that line of thinking?

[quote] I would suggest starting with a sensual massage therapist. That way you won't be concerned with having to "perform," do things you don't feel confident doing. Let them touch you while you lay back. I think that would be a great introduction to sex and receiving pleasure from another person. It is very one-sided, meaning that the experience is all about you and not making the other person orgasm. You might really discover things about your body, your turn ons, which you never knew existed.

This is an approach I hadn't considered. Tbh I'd been looking at sex as a problem to solve, a goal to work toward or a bucket-list experience, but you're right to point out that when healthy and enjoyable it ought to be more like an activity and a type of encounter you ease into gradually--like learning to swim in steps, by dipping in toes, then wading/bobbing in the shallows or a warm pool, then trying to float or doggy-paddle etc. A less scary proposition.

Though honestly I still find the idea intimidating, as I've only ever been naked briefly in front of non-relatives in gym/pool showers or on beaches, for a few seconds before putting on a towel, and sometimes (context dependent) I am really not cool with touch. There's been one round of massages in my past, several years ago when I hurt my shoulder playing freshman hockey, but that was clothed and completely non-sensual/sexual.

"I am really not cool with touch"

So then why the curiosity about sex? It's ok to be asexual and to not want it. Have you ever orgasmed?

You are overthinking all of this. Sex is primal and most people are terrible at it but they do it anyway because it is something that just overtakes you once you are turned on by someone. It doesn't sound like you even want affection so pets are not an option. Are you a robot? (I'm just teasing you but I'm just confused as to why, if you don't even like being touched you would even consider sex).

[quote] So then why the curiosity about sex? It's ok to be asexual and to not want it. Have you ever orgasmed?

Yep, have orgasmed plenty. Mastubation is fine and I can/do take care of myself regularly, but I feel like I am still intrigued by sexual contact with others, which disqualifies me from asexuality, no? I read about and watch sexual couplings in fiction a lot, and constantly wonder what it would be like. I have sexual crushes too, and I can look at others and imagine what they’d be like sexually.

It’s hard to put into words exactly, but the sexual side of me feels like an unfulfilled or unfinished or somehow immature stunted part, even though I touch myself and fantasise plenty, and I assume that’s because I haven’t yet had partnered sex or sexual contact of any kind. Surely were I asexual, I wouldn’t feel like this.

The touch aversion is an annoying instinctual effect of ASD, layered with last trauma from bullying and interrupted attachment. Understand I don’t want to be like this, and long to be able to stand touch more. As I said, I can accept it from close loved ones, so I’m not totally averse.

[quote] You are overthinking all of this. Sex is primal and most people are terrible at it but they do it anyway because it is something that just overtakes you once you are turned on by someone.

Haha true, overthinking is one stumbling block I encounter quite a bit in life, not just over this! So yeah, it would no doubt help to get out of my own way psychologically (however one does that).

Many of my primal needs and behaviours were squashed growing up, as I was a sensitive child & teen with an undiagnosed disorder that made everything overwhelming to me, and the people around me never understood that and couldn’t make space for it. So as an adult, my main coping behaviour is aversion or denial. The default response I have to a crush or attraction is either to ignore it to death or to pine away silently.

The overwhelm people feel when they have chemistry that sends them into bed is something I’ve felt before, though only a small handful of times in life and every time with impossible or unavailable or inappropriate people (not in an illegal/immoral way, just that they were married or with someone else or in an authority position). The one reciprocal attraction I had/have is very much a no go as well, and isn’t with someone I like much or can trust anymore, so wouldn’t be apt for a first time.

[quote] It doesn't sound like you even want affection so pets are not an option. Are you a robot? (I'm just teasing you but I'm just confused as to why, if you don't even like being touched you would even consider sex).

Ah it’s ok, I understand how mad and illogical this all sounds without context (maybe even with). In the past I’ve had therapists look at me like I’m hopeless and tell me they can’t help me.

Dgmw I really do want and like affection, when it’s not forced on me or not a surprise or something I didn’t ask for. And I do imagine and desire positive physical contact with others, even getting envious when I see people hugging and kissing. It just feels like something that isn’t easy or simple or open to me.

And I have a pet I love dearly, a cute 3-year old lab who’s my best friend. He gets hugs and kisses from me everyday, don’t worry!

R110, that hits so, so close to home.

R125, I long for the day my hormones will settle down. Like you, I've had a few relationships (even have an ex-wife); never fit in with the local lesbian community; did things I wish I hadn't because of my sex drive.

I've understood recently that I don't want to be in any romantic relationships from here on out - it's a decision one can make, and it's doable. With that said, I wish I could control other things: I long for the peace of not wanting, not feeling so much anymore, and, frankly, of not falling in love. I've had it with the energy it consumes, and the 'dangers' it puts me in.

A final recent realization is that I feel and live my best when I'm alone, which then only leaves the problem of... estrogen.

Op, there a millions of couples who are miserable and distant. Don’t judge based on social media and public appearances

I wish I had had a pitbull like this in my life.

[quote]r8 Never had sex or a relationship and never wanted them. And always told those interested to fuck off.

Like a wounded, feral little animal.

My goodness.

That is not it. There are plenty of ugly people who married and even had kids.

Heal Your Avoidant Attachment Style Before It Drains Your Life of Love and Meaning

No matter how cliche it is, it’s true that I fervently believe that there is something very wrong with a person who would would think of me romantically. The idea of someone feeling that is so ludicrous to me, I literally can’t even fantasize about it. I think I’m a good person who has value, but being in a romantic relationship is so far outside the realm of possibility, it can’t even be considered. On the other hand, I’m not happy about it.

I fit into this category. Mostly because I'm too set in my ways, enjoy my space, and get in "moods" where I don't want to talk to anyone. My family and the few friends I've had since kindergarten understand these "moods" and know to keep their distance and that it's not personal.

Potential partners? They always take it personally. This is likely due to the fact that these "everyone fuck off" moods tend to spring up rather frequently for me, and get misconstrued as "ghosting" when it occurs early in a courtship. Reassuring people "it's not them but me" got exhausting and so now I just don't try, anymore.

Who says we all have to be paired up? Could the assumption that this is the only normal state be as silly as the early 20th century assertion the male-female intercourse within a committed monogamous marriage is normal and natural?

^^^ 20th century assertion THAT ONLY male-female intercourse within a committed monogamous marriage is normal and natural?

I believe the concept of heterosexual coupling being the norm precedes the 20th Century.

I have. I’ve been with a lot of guys and been in relationships with a lot of taken guys. I don’t know if I’m capable of being in a real relationship. I’d like to ideally but it would be hard to find the right person. I’m very weird and I’ve always had a hard time with most people. I can’t picture myself living my day to day life with somebody else.

[quote]I believe the concept of heterosexual coupling being the norm precedes the 20th Century.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. The mid 20th century is when it began to be questioned

Okay - well it’s very clear why someone has problems relating with others, anyway : )

I'M FINE! r193 ABSOLUTELY FINE!!

Yes, dear. It’s just that time of day when you get testy. Let’s get a nice grilled cheese sandwich and cup of tomato soup in you. There, there.

Yes, it's the idea of being around someone so much. I think it would drive me crazy, I would get so irritable.

Seems this issue is split between volcels (liking to be alone, sigma types) and people with AvPd issues (connection injuries).

R191 would it freak you out if one of your 'taken guys' ditched their partners and asked you to be their main bf, instead?

There were two I would have wanted. One of them would have been a mess because he was a mess. I think it could have worked between me and one of the guys though except he was married to a woman. He was very kind though and and we had great conversations. His wife was his high school sweetheart and although he was handsome and she had aged horribly he completely took care of her.

Yes. I've had boyfriends but nothing serious. Was in love once but he turned out to be the anti-Christ. Alone but not lonely.

What is your soul mate is on DL

^What IF

R201 talk about nightmare scenarios. Most would rather die alone.

I just assumed that my soul mate died of AIDS in the 80s or 90s or something.

I've never found anyone even remotely right for me. I tried to "settle" several times, and they were all disasters (untrustworthy users, abusers, and one narcissistic sociopath that did real damage to me in the end).

At this point, I'm out of shape, not in great health, and old (pushing 60) and there's just no point to even trying to date. Not only will I never find anyone that makes me happier than I am alone, I have little or nothing to offer anyone else. I'm boring, old, ugly, set in my ways, and I can't imagine wanting anyone else to have to put up with me.

So yeah, I'll be essentially single my whole life. The last thing I wanted when I was a teenager and in my 20s. Add up all the time I was dating or in a relationship and it's less than three years total, and of that total, I was miserable for more than two years, so fuck it.

Maybe there isn't someone for everyone.

R204 not to be That Guy, but if it helps to have perspective: many married people have their spouses die on them earlier than expected, then look around after the funeral and realise that they too are suddenly old and ugly and boring/set in their ways and alone. Sure, they have the memories of some good times as part of a couple, but they still end up in the same place.

Perhaps to reach contentment, we all as people both single and coupled need to embrace the possibility of that Fate.

The problem is, every single one of my friends and family members is coupled. They all have support systems.

I do not. I don't even have local friends, really. When I need a ride to/from surgery, my cousin flies in at great expense (I pay) from a thousand miles away.

If I fall in the shower and can't get up... I'm just doomed to suffer for days and days because nobody checked in on me, nobody comes over, and I work from home so even coworkers would take a long time to notice I'm not around.

I'm not even 60 yet and I'm already having issues. What happens if I get even more infirm, or more sick, or start losing my mind? I refuse to be a burden on anyone. So much of my thoughts are occupied now with how I make some sort of graceful exit in the next ten years or so. Whenever it becomes necessary. It's not like I'll be able to afford a nice "assisted living facility". Ugh.

r206 Just get yourself a Life Alert.

[quote] Just get yourself a Life Alert.

Seriously.

R187, may I ask - how old are you?

[quote] got exhausting and so now I just don't try

This part resonated with me in an ample manner. At a certain point I got so, so tired of so many things, and I realized I don't ever want to be that tired again. That's when it dawned on me that I don't want a relationship anymore, ever again.

R206 can you retire closer to where your cousin lives or near your friends?

Honestly, when I hit retirement, I plan on moving to where my brother lives or near my close friend for that exact reason.

Senior Housing

R206 You’re still young, but if you fear for the future, see if your community has subsidized housing for older folk & get on a list. It might take years, but you’ll be in the queue.

In one NJ town there are senior apartments with 24 hour security and emergency pull cords in the bathroom and bedroom. There are couples and singles. They have Oscar nominated movie nights & such, but it’s otherwise low-key.

The rent is around half of the going market rate.

[quote] Honestly, when I hit retirement, I plan on moving to where my brother lives or near my close friend for that exact reason.

This is presumptuous. Who says they want to take care of you in old age, or are able to?

Lord have mercy, r212 - I’ve already discussed it with both of them many times over the years - they each want me to move to where they live.

Also, I would be helping to take care of them - it goes both ways. We are all around the same age - give or take a few years.

So no - it’s not presumptuous. It’s presumptuous of you to assume the worst.

Yes but it is a conscious decision.

I've long known I am a better person all around when I live alone. My refusal to co-habitate made for very short term relationships when I was young and solitude now that I'm not so young.

Anyone else become profoundly uncomfortable when other people show interest in dating or befriending them?

The kids today call it 'aromantic', however I think there's a bit more to it than such a pat label.

In my adult life, single for 34 years, in a relationship (2) for 11 years. I make the best of my situation, whether coupled or single and haven't chased after either state. To me, a relationship can be great but they happen when they happen, not by plan, and are worth the conceding some of the pleasures of single life when you have an exceptional partner and feel that you gain from it. Being single fits like a glove, it's the default state and I've always been happy when single.

It's not always a choice of being forever single or perennially coupled.

R215, I'm intensely uncomfortable when someone indicates interest. But I'm absolutely not a-romantic. I'm a total romantic. I wish I could make out and cuddle with a guy every night. I've just had very bad experiences (narcissists, sociopaths, users) such that my mind automatically associates someone's interest with someone wanting to use and abuse me, and my fight or flight instincts kick in.

I'm only uncomfortable if I'm not attracted to the person who shows interest.

Do you just have horrible self esteem and not believe you are worthy of love?

R66 Thanks for the reassurance. It’s just I don’t know how to approach dating at this age when I have no experience.

I’m just afraid I’m gonna die alone.

We all die alone.

OP what is 'essentially' single? like our spirit is alone even if our flesh isn't? wdym

Essentially?

Since I'm not a conjoined twin, yes.

Whole ‘life’? Gee, I don’t know, OP...sorta?

A lot of delusion in this thread. But whatever gets you through

I’ve a friend who’s never been in a relationship. He retired at 65 and financially solvent, has a very good government pension. He tells me that he’s content and I have to believe him but it seems like a living death to me. He told me that he’s not interested in making the necessary compromises and adjustments that a relationship would require.

R226 I have a similar friend- he is in his 70s and claims to have had a girlfriend in college, but I don’t believe him. I think he is autistic and either asexual or gay with a very low sex drive. He is a retired teacher and makes more money than he knows what to do with- he has a brother and some friends who help him out (and vice-versa). He will be fine.

[quote] I think he is autistic and either asexual or gay with a very low sex drive.

Yeah, this is a common profile. May end up being mine, too. The link between libido and autism needs to be studied more.

R226, here. My friend tends to develop friendships that are transactional. His family, son, sister and niece are dependent on him. He had a roommate for a few years and tried to convince us to get were lovers. He was renting a room in a house.

Is your hyman still intact, OP?

I’ve dated a lot of men. Some for a series of months, like eight or so. One guy for over a year

I was always appalled at lying and cheating. Once caught I could never forgive. I'd then become suspicious and paranoid, and at that point you just need to walk.

I wouldn't do it, so why should I tolerate it in others?

The internet made relationships unnecessary for the bulk of gay men. So they stopped pretending to want one.