Let's Discuss All About Eve

Ritter steals every scene she's in. She needed one or two more.

Paranoiac!

Birdie throws shade on Eve in every scene they appear together but latter pays no attention. Eve is playing for the long game and doesn't see Birdie as any sort of real threat to her plans.

Meanwhile you cannot believe Margo is so blind not to get at once what Eve was up to; she was slipping.

Bette Davis playing Margo Channing was one of the best gifts to one or more generations of "female impersonators".

Late Charles Pierce made a very good living off channeling Bette Davis/Margo Channing

Everything but the blood hounds snappin' at her rear end.

BIRDIE earned her keep in this scene from Miracle On 34th Street (1947)

A little Birdie told me: Eve’s pussy stinks.

It's really sort of sad watching Anne Baxter's phony-baloney performance in this if you see her early screen test for "Rebecca" (she was Hitchcock's favorite for the role) or her performance in "The Magnificent Ambersons." She was so genuinely talented, and then she allowed her performances to become so mannered as to be over-the-top.

[quote] Shall we?

Yes. It's certainly a topic never discussed on DL previously.

For r8–

The largest crime is Thelma Ritter disappearing half way through the movie. The scenes with her and Bette Davis had more fire than the scenes of Bette with Celeste Holm

Love that movie. It has DIALOGUE!!!!

Would love to have seen Ritter play Dolly Levi, in either the play or musical version.

Classic

They had to put cayenne pepper on the set to stop Anne Baxter chewing the scenery.

The wry, almost underplayed performances of Ritter and Sanders are a stark contrast.

It’s a tie!

Thelma Ritter's first film role was Miracle on 34th Street. Her third was Joseph L. Mankiewicz's Letter To Three Wives. By time Mankiewicz was casting All About Eve he remembered Thelma Ritter, rest as they say is history.

As a character actress Thelma Ritter excelled at playing tough but fair working class women who were maybe a bit world weary. This because as in common with many working class or poor persons they've seen far too much of the gritty underbelly of life.

Catch Thelma Ritter as Moe Williams in "Pick-up On South Street".

I love the lesbian undertones in this movie!

OP, if you love Thelma Ritter, you will love Pickup on South Street. Thelma steals the show and she even gives a great speech.

Should have received an honorary Oscar.

That I should want you at all, suddenly strikes me as the height of improbability. But that, in itself, is probably the reason. You're an improbable person, Eve, and so am I. We have that in common. Also, our contempt for humanity and inability to love, and be loved, insatiable ambition, and talent. We deserve each other.

Bette Davis' portrayal of Margo Channing has been so indelibly linked to Bette Davis' persona that whenever post-1950 impersonators mimicked Davis, it was always as Margo. But back then, people thought Bette was impersonating Tallulah.

I like Anne Baxter but she really is mannered. Along with the dull visuals, I think Anne is the biggest flaw with the movie. I actually think Marilyn Monroe would have stolen the show if she played Eve (she did, in fact, steal the one scene she was in). Come on, can anyone really imagine Eve/Anne outsmarting Margo/Bette and usurping her career? I don't think so.

To me, the emoting that Gary Merrill does in his "THE-A-ter" speech is worse than any of Anne's scenery chewing. Especially when he pronounces rodeo as ro-DE-o like the Drive in Beverly Hills.

[quote] I love the lesbian undertones in this movie!

I once read an interview with Mankiewicz in some film journal and the interviewer asked if Eve was meant to be a lesbian. The excitement with which Mankiewicz responded was interesting: it was something along the lines of "You're the first person to ever ask me that!" I think it was from the early 1970s. Mankiewicz basically said that it was all right there, out in the open -- the mannish clothing, the readiness to move in quickly (ha! -- U-haul joke), the way that Eve puts her arm around the friend who calls Lloyd late at night as they walk upstairs together, the way that she becomes Addison's protégée without hints at a sexual relationship but one of power, and especially at Margo's gay panic when Birdie states that Eve is studying her, like a blueprint or somethin' and Margo snaps, "I'm sure there's nothing wrong with that!"

Also, there is the way that Eve's attachment is somewhat psychotic: not only copying Margo but [italic]inhabiting[/italic] her. She tailors Margo's dresses to fit her, constantly looks in the mirror while she talks to Margo, puts on her stage wig, begins drinking Martinis, etc. Oh, I just find this move able to be dissected endlessly.

Some other favorites points: Eve's growing sophistication ("the hors d'oeuvres [bold]are[/bold] here" -- why would a brewery secretary understand that the phrase is plural?); the more melodious timbre of Eve's voice; Karen's statement of "very Academy of Dramatic Art!" when Holm herself exhibits the elocution that was part of that school; and most of all Birdie whose presence is all over the movie, but whose most under-appreciate line is when she wishes Bill good luck in Hollywood -- "kill the people," underscoring her roots in vaudeville.

Anne Baxter was almost a physical match to the actress originally slated to play Margo, Claudette Colbert, in that blandly pretty sort of way. Had Colbert played Margo opposite Baxter, it would've added an even creepier, horror-movie like element to AAE: a younger doppelganger taking your place.

As it is now, to me, Bette's Margo and Baxter's Eve, are so wildly different in looks and personality that you can see them coexisting in the same theatrical field. Bette's Margo is so larger than life that you can't imagine her ever feeling threatened by bland upstart Eve.

And then Birdie disappears, just like Midge does in "Vertigo."

Poof.

Pick-up On South Street got no end of heck from censors. In particular scene where Candy gets the stuffing knocked out of her sent censors raving.

I once heard that Birdie was like the Fool in KING LEAR—important for many reasons early in the play, but after that not necessary, so she disappears. Wonder if Mankiewicz ever addressed this.

Between Thelma Ritter, Eve Arden and Mary Wickes they stole almost every scene they were in.

Mary Wickes knew how to stand her own against some great talent, but she never upstaged.

Thelma Ritter was the gold standard for every working class, plain looking woman that was ever a maid.

Anyone see her Tony-winning role in the musical NEW GIRL IN TOWN? She's a hoot on the OBC.

All About Summer’s Eve

All About Eve’s Pussy!

I find all the male leads in this film, other than the always-brilliant George Sanders, dull as dishwater. It's a major flaw.

Well R35, they all have dull characters to play, with the exception of Sanders. This film was a true vehicle for femme actors.

R36 I’m a vehicle. A pussy wagon!

I love this insightful interview Anne did to promote the movie.

Hollywood really kept their stars on a leash back then.

Here is Bette’s interview

Everything's so funny!

[quote] Eve's growing sophistication ("the hors d'oeuvres are here" -- why would a brewery secretary understand that the phrase is plural?)

What? "Hors d'oeuvres" ends with an S and the S sound is enunciated. Plural!

Bette Davis as Margo Channing is one of the greatest performances by an actress, ever.

She should've won the Oscar.

IMO, both Anne Baxter and Celeste Holm were so bland and boring. It might have been interesting to see Marilyn Monroe play a complex, conniving character with 2 sides to her personality.

Yes, Thelma Ritter was great. Bette Davis as well, of course.

[quote]Especially when he pronounces rodeo as ro-DE-o like the Drive in Beverly Hills.

He might have been directed to pronounce it that way: clueless showbiz folk who don't know about the real world of real men, y'know?

Gary Merrill did lots of television starting from1960's to 1980. Even early on he looked rather tired and worn; you'd never guess he once was a major Hollywood studio star.

Guess he was one of those actors (among many) who needed to work after studio system ended and took roles where he could.

Thelma Ritter and Marilyn Monroe from "The Misfits"

R43, Marilyn was too early in her career to get a big part like that.

Eve Plumb is guest staring on Wonder Woman today.

Did anyone get to see the West End production of "All About Eve" starring Gillian Anderson and Lily James?

I didn’t see that [r49] but someone on here did see the celebrity reading with Angela Lansbury as Birdie and said she was woefully underehearsed

Which of the characters in the movie had superpowers?

Birdie didn't have to hang about for entire film. Though only in first half she got off some great lines!

Margo : Birdie, you don't like Eve, do you?

Birdie : You looking for an answer or an argument?

Margo : An answer.

Birdie : No.

Margo : Why not?

Birdie : Now you want an argument.

Margo : You bought the new girdles a size smaller, I can feel it.

Birdie : Something maybe grew a size larger.

Margo : When we get home you're going to get into one of those girdles and act for two and a half hours.

Birdie : I couldn't get into the girdle in two and a half hours.

Birdie : Have you ever heard of the word "union"?

Margo : Behind in your dues? How much?

Birdie : I haven't got a union. I'm slave labor.

Margo : Well?

Birdie : But the wardrobe women have got one, and next to a tenor, a wardrobe woman is the touchiest thing in show business.

it's like one of three movies I own. I can watch it over and over. So many small little touches that were huge.

the dialogue. the acting, the story, the era that it captured.

The party scene, when it's late and everyone's sitting on the steps, just waiting to be allowed to flee, is probably my favorite film scenes of all time. In just a few minutes, the whole cast gets to recite the snappiest dialogue ever written for a film, and the continental shift of the story takes place as Margo realizes Eve's bullshit. We've all been to parties that have taken disastrous turns due to the host's drunken behavior. I only wish those moments were as wittily written as a a Joseph Mankiewicz screenplay.

"And please stop acting as if I were the Queen Mother!"

"You're maudlin and full of self-pity. You're magnificent."

"party scene, when it's late and everyone's sitting on the steps, just waiting to be allowed to flee,"

Don't know about waiting to be allowed to "flee" (you make it sound like a class of school children waiting to be dismissed), but have always enjoyed intimate late moments of a party.

Usually that's when everyone but nearest and dearest to host have left party and when really delicious things happen.

Little private conversations, dirt that someone has been dying to spill all evening but couldn't in front of "outsiders".

R54 great post.

Watching these old films it's just amazing how everyone smokes all the time. Margo cannot even get out of bed in morning without first thing lighting up.

Looking at all those glamourous clothes, beautiful interiors and so on, then realizing everything must have reeked of cigarette smoke.

You got used to it. My parents smoked in the car with us kids, and sometimes without a window open.

This is one of my favourite screenplays of all time. The dialogue is brilliant.

I agree, though, that Baxter is too mannered. Her ambition and cunning is too transparent, that it would have been interesting to cast someone who was less obvious in her goals.

Davis is terrific in this movie, and of course Ritter and Sanders. I like Holm in this.

I'm almost willing to turn in my gay card, but did not realize there was a Broadway musical Applause based on this.

Lauren Bacall, but was there an 11 o'clock number? I see a song list, but nothing stands out.

R8, It could have been much worse. Zanuck implored Mankiewicz to cast the dreadful Jeanne Crain as Eve, but Mankiewicz had worked with Crain before and knew she was a bad choice for Eve and he was correct.

Eventually, Zanuck relented.

[quote] I love the lesbian undertones in this movie!

Who are the lesbians in this movie?

Eve is the main lesbo in this movie. While she's playing her tricks, she speaks in an artificially high and feminine voice. But listen to the way her voice drops into a lower register in her final scenes with Phoebe, who makes it quite clear she wants to spend the night with Eve, (:"I don't ever want to go home.")

[quote] Zanuck implored Mankiewicz to cast the dreadful Jeanne Crain

She also appears in the follow-up Mankiewicz disaster. It is the most pretentious, verbose weird movie about a completely, narcissistic, self-obsessed jerk.

Cary Grant can't disguise its political ugliness. It's like something by Ayn Rand (not that I have ever read anything by Ayn Rand).

for some reason my favorite line of Eve's is 'that's the door' to Phoebe as if she's already realized well, you're coming with me to Hollywood you little bitch, you may as well start working for me.

I always had an unexplainable attraction to Addison Dewitt. A three way with him and Wally Fay from ‘Mildred Pierce’ would have been fun.

Did Addison love Eve?

R60 Really? REALLY? It's the show that made me a STAR!

Great post, r 25. I do think the lesbian undertones are there but i find the parasitic relationship of Margo and Eve to be more original and complex view. Eve wants to be Margo.

Agree that Baxter is one of the weak link (the men are all wooden except for Sanders, but they don’t affect the movie). Even physically she is wrong, looking portly and everything but an ingenue.

R67 - Addison was just an opportunist like her. Peas in a pod kind of thing and a potential lavender relationship. Here’s an interesting take about him as a GFB trope written and played to hide in plain sight from the Code.

Anne Baxter insisted that she be considered for the Best Actress and not Best Supporting Actress category for the Oscar nominations.

Her being listed in the same category as Bette may have cost Davis a victory that year, which would have been her third Oscar.

I hated that Birdie disappeared halfway through the movie. My theory is Eve set her up and had Margo fire her in a scene that took place off camera.

That or having her appear throughout the entire movie would've thrown off the balance. In a film that's meant to be serious and dramatic (yet features a wisecracking comic relief type supporting character) you can only use a character so far.

Men like Addison DeWitt then, since and now have always been to an extent "opportunists".

They may have some talent (in Addison's case a drama critic), but that doesn't always pay the bills or advance their careers. Thus moving about in right circles is necessary to pick up useful bits of this and that, but also around when certain opportunities present themselves.

In real life someone like Addison DeWitt would have wrangled an invite or whatever to accompany Eve to west coast (expenses paid of course). Once out there Addison would have been looking about to see what there was. Maybe selling a script he'd been working on or something.

It bugs me that Birdie disappears.

Birdie wasn't necessary after first half or so of film.

Note in that PR picture seen in R70 "Birdie" isn't there either.

Birdie is a great role, but the character isn't central to plot of film same as say "Mammy" in GWTW

Thank you for gaysplaining the obvious for the umpteenth time R75. I know all that and yet it bugs me.

Baxter was theatre-trained so not surprised her acting coming across mannered. It was only in her later years that she realised film wasn’t her metier and went back to do more stage.

I don't understand why they let Baxter ruin the movie. She's so bad. Who was she fucking ? even Monroe is better. Mankiewicz should have grown a pair and fired her, no matter who at the Fox board she was blowing. There are so many actresses who could have been cast in that part, and done well. Perhaps Davis didn't want to be upstaged and chose her. That the only explanation that makes sense to me.

I know the part is to small, but I would kill to see Ritter as Leigh's stage maid in THE ROMAN SPRING OF MRS STONE. "I hate myself" ROTFLMAO

R78, Anne Baxter had won an Oscar three years before, and in 1950 having an Oscar on your resume meant exponentially more than it does now.

Who should have been cast as Eve instead of Anne Baxter? She wasn't bad, but I also feel another actress could've done a better job.

George Sanders, on the other hand, was perfection.

The Razor's Edge 1946, Tyrone Power, Gene Tierney & Anne Baxter

R81 Joan Fontaine or Lee Remick. But I suppose Remick would be a bit too young for the role

Background to Razor's Edge

MM fought hard to be case in All About Eve

Joe Mankiewicz was a great fan of Anne Baxter. He wanted her for the 4th wife in A Letter to 3 Wives when it had 4 Wives. He also claimed that Baxter's part was much harder than that of Davis.

Apparently Anne Baxter was cast as "Eve" because she resembled Claudette Colbert who was going to be "Margo". When CC withdrew part of Margo Channing was reworked when Bette Davis took over, but Anne Baxter remained.

R83, Lee Remick would have been 15 years old in 1950.

[quote]Who should have been cast as Eve instead of Anne Baxter?

Viola Davis

R81, Eleanor Parker would have made a good Eve Harrington, who oddly enough was Oscar nominated in 1950 for “Caged”.

[quote] Who should have been cast as Eve instead of Anne Baxter?

Someone homely yet devoured by the need to be seen as desirable, consumed with extreme bitterness and morbidly jealous, talent free but determined and foxy enough to fuck her way into an acting career and walk over anyone perceived as a competitor. So another vote for Fontaine

R71, if God is real and by some miracle I’m allowed to enter Heaven, I will ask God one question. Not who killed JFK, not the secret of the pyramids.

I will ask who would have won the Oscar that year if Baxter had been appropriately placed in Supporting, Bette Davis or Gloria Swanson?

All About Eve is my favorite performance by my favorite actress, but I would have voted for Swanson.

Depending on how you define an 11 O'clock number (and it's a constant source of dispute on DL), in APPLAUSE it would be "She's No Longer a Gypsy"—upbeat second-act showstopper—or "There's Something Greater"—moment of self-discovery for the lead.

R92, As much as Bette Davis wanted to win for “Eve”, she said numerous times in interviews that she would have cheered if Swanson had won.

R93, “But Alive” was the major production number in Applause, albeit it was in Act I.

11:00 numbers are always in Act 2. Hence the title, because they happened late-ish in a show that started at 8:30.

R92, I don't think very many people voted for Baxter over Davis. I think Academy voters were split over Davis and Swanson.

"Sunset Blvd" was a very Hollywood movieland film, complete with murder, intrigue, and mental illness, while witty and dialogue-heavy "All About Eve" was a very New York theatre film, so my guess is Academy voters leaned more towards Swanson, the comeback success story of the year.

R96 = Captain Obvious

R97, When released, Sunset Boulevard was not greeted with open arms by the Hollywood community. It’s only over time that it has earned iconic status.

[quote]Who should have been cast as Eve instead of Anne Baxter? She wasn't bad, but I also feel another actress could've done a better job.

I'm pretty sure Vivian Vance was available.

I can't stand anything about Marilyn Monroe, on screen or off, but I think she is perfect and fantastic in every second of this role.

FLAVAH !

I'm genuinely surprised George Sanders was not gay in real life.

R101, agreed. I have to admit I'm not the biggest fan of All About Eve--I think Sunset Boulevard is a better movie in just about every way--but I think Marilyn really steals that scene she's in.

A movie like this would have a snowball's chance in hell of being made today. If, by some miracle it did get made, it would be a very small indie film and gross about 500K at the box office.

They would have to give Eve or Birdie a super-power.

r105/R106 so true. Or they would have to be queer or non-binary or something like that.

Something that isn’t discussed is the Academy wasn’t then what it is now. There wasn’t a huge actors branch. The bulk of Academy voters were studio executives. It’s why Judy Garland lost in 1954 as well. Bette Davis wasn’t particularly popular with the movie executives, so they weren’t keen on voting for her.

Louella Parsons or Hedda Hopper (I can’t remember who) later wrote that she knew for a fact that Judy Garland lost because the executives from MGM voted against her.

Clearly all the MGM execs were straight.

[quote]Baxter was theatre-trained so not surprised her acting coming across mannered. It was only in her later years that she realised film wasn’t her metier and went back to do more stage.

When Baxter died, she was starring in the TV series "Hotel," having replaced -- no! yes! -- Bette Davis after Bette suffered a stroke.'s

Baxter's return to the stage included taking over for Lauren Bacall as Margo Channing in the Broadway musical "Applause."

I saw Baxter in this on tour in Boston, where she received top billing over the Cronyns.

R111 Are you blind? That’s staggered billing at best.

How was it?

R112, It’s the name you see first that counts.

Thelma Ritter should have played ALL the roles!

Well, more people voted for Judy Holliday, who was brilliant in her film, even if Davis and Swanson got equal amounts of votes. Eleanor Parker was quite good in her film, too, and better than Baxter.

[quote]Eleanor Parker was quite good in her film, too, and better than Baxter.

Eleanor Parker's movie was "Caged," the mother of all "women in prison" melodramas. And it had LOADS of lesbian content, especially for a movie released in 1950.

[quote]Bette Davis wasn’t particularly popular with the movie executives, so they weren’t keen on voting for her.

Bette Davis was far ahead of her time. The male executives didn't like a woman who was smarter than they were. Davis's temperament had a lot to do with the fact that she was smarter and more quick-witted than most of the men in the room with her and it made her ornery. Intelligent, competent women were treated like total shit in those times.

[quote]Bette Davis after Bette suffered a stroke.

Several days after her mastectomy, when she was still in the hospital, Bette suffered from intense itching all over her body, wild hallucinations, and then had three strokes. All of this could've been easily prevented if the hospital staff had recognized that she was going through alcohol withdrawal. The third stroke was the one that caused the facial paralysis.

Loved George Sanders who really made the movie. But aside from that it was an extremely misogynist film. Every woman in it - except for Ritter who was completely sexless in it - is either some kind of whore or manipulative. Even the last scene shows a woman snarling - yes, snarling - into the camera. I laugh when i read old or new reviews by women praising it.

[quote] is either some kind of whore or manipulative.

it's a movie about SHOW-BUSINESS, you imbecile frau

r112, it's also alphabetical.

Judy Garland lost because she was not very good in ASIB, she was over the top, melodramatic, and self-involved. She was never a very good actress anyway, not was she a warm of charming presence, and she was certainly no beauty. In fact she looked deformed and special needs. She was a popular child star, and a good singer, and she was lucky to be in some very good musicals of the era. I , for one, loathe her. Kelly was stunning, extremely adroit, and showed astonishing range for a glamour puss. End of the story

"nor was she a warm, or charming presence". WTF happened ? the ghost of Judy punished me

[quote]Judy Garland lost because she was not very good in ASIB

Sure, Jan. She couldn't hope to match the brilliance of Grace Kelly in "The Country Girl."

R120 Get out of here, you frau.

Judy not warm or charming? Delusional.

Oh, is that Judy Garland Troll from the Whitney tread camping out here now?

[quote][R81], Eleanor Parker would have made a good Eve Harrington, who oddly enough was Oscar nominated in 1950 for “Caged".

Funny you say that, because I watched THE SOUND OF MUSIC first as a child and ALL ABOUT EVE later as a young adult.

My initial impression of Baxter's performance as 'Eve' was that she was doing a poor imitation of The Baroness.

😂

R99 SUNSET BOULEVARD was a box office hit and was nominated for 11 Oscars, including Best Picture and Best Director.

All four stars were nominated: Best Actor, Best Actress, Best Supporting Actor, Best Supporting Actress.

It won three Oscars: Best Original Screenplay, Best Production Design, and Best Original Score.

As wonderful as Bette is in "All About Eve", the film didn't really help her career too much in the 1950s, as she didn't do many really good films there until her great return in 'Baby Jane". Joan Crawford actually had some really good (or at least popular) films in the 1950s.

R129, Exactly! . . . NO major awards.

[quote] And then Birdie disappears, just like Midge does in "Vertigo." Poof.

Birdie herself commented she had for many years in vaudeville "closed the first half" ( the prime spot ). She simply did so again.

[quote][R129], Exactly! . . . NO major awards.

Best Original/Adapted Screenplay is one of the 5 major Oscars, along with Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, and Best Actress.

Only three films have won all 5:

- It Happened One Night (1934)

- One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975)

- The Silence of the Lambs (1991)

I really do enjoy "All About Eve," but I don't get the adoration about Marilyn Monroe. It's a bit part and any Hollywood bimbo of the day could have played it.

MM pretty much steals the screen during the party stairway scene. Great, great film and one of Bette’s best.

[quote] I don't get the adoration about Marilyn Monroe. It's a bit part and any Hollywood bimbo of the day could have played it.

For me the appeal is when Addison aims are towards the unappealing producer. It's like she presses a button and transforms into Marilyn. Not just any starlet could have so appealingly played that scene.

[quote] I hated that Birdie disappeared halfway through the movie. My theory is...

Mank was good at one-liners but very weak at plot structure.

Don't you just hate when it posters finish with "end of the story"? I do.

R138 What do you mean?

R125 Yes, MM pretty much steals the screen during the party stairway scene and then disappears.

Thelma Ritter looks skanky.

She's the servant who eats the discarded left-overs from the dinner plates.

And an unattractive accent.

[quote] Davis ... was smarter and more quick-witted than most of the men

how do you gauge that? She spent her career reading dialogue written by men.

Interviews, r142

Thank You, R18 & R25 for shedding light on the obvious lesbian undertones surrounding the character Eve. I thought it was just me all these years!

When you take into account that Eve was in fact a scheming Lesbian (or at least Bisexual), a lot of her actions make sense. Her Love/Hate obsession with Margo. The shady past & lies about being a War Widow. The fact that she only bothered with powerful men during her schemes to advance herself, etc.

The most obvious lesbianic moment was during the final scene when the young "fan" crashes Eve's suite. And Eve seductively tells her lust in her eyes, "You mustn't leave tonight. You'll be out all hours!"

“The most obvious lesbianic moment was during the final scene when the young "fan" crashes Eve's suite. And Eve seductively tells her lust in her eyes, "You mustn't leave tonight. You'll be out all hours!"“

Not the telephone scene when Eve walks up the stairs with her arm around the girl who made the call for her?

"Not the telephone scene when Eve walks up the stairs with her arm around the girl who made the call for her?"

R145, I considered that just one scheming broad doing a favor for another. But I'll be re-watching the movie again soon to spot every time Eve exposes her Indigo Girl 78s and Birkenstock sandals!

I mean r123.

[quote]Bette Davis was far ahead of her time. The male executives didn't like a woman who was smarter than they were.

Like any man likes a woman who's smarter than he is...

True then, true today r148

If only they had left in the cheese balls scene, Eve's Sapphic nature would have been crystal clear!

I once looked into the heart of an artichoke.

What does that line mean, R151? Or anybody else, for that matter.

Bette was extremely smart, but she wasn't only smart woman Old Hollywood, that's just silly to imply. I'd listen to her interviews to get a feel for the woman in real life.

She was, however, very hard to work with - with men and women. Any time she was threatened by a female co-star she made their lives hell. And put many productions behind schedule because of her demands. Obviously, Bette wasn't nearly as bad people like Judy or MM, but she was no picnic. She produced both strong critical acclaim and box office for a long time, so that's why this was almost always overlooked. She also had long-term affairs with her best directors, like William Wyler (who I believe she called the love of her life somewhere)

And I'm not sure being easy to work with wins you awards. Barbara Stanwyck was BELOVED by everyone she worked with, but never won a competitive Oscar. She wasn't a full on freelancer, she had short term studio contracts, so I wonder why Warners or Paramount never pooled for big campaigns for her while she worked for them.

smart woman in Old Hollywood, that is.

And yes, anyone could have played MM's role. She had to be coached through it, like she had to be coached through EVERYTHING she did. And she did not steal the scene from the likes of Bette Davis and George Sanders, my god. Her fangurls are beyond annoying.

Anne Baxter was one of Frank Lloyd Wright’s grandchildren!

My favorite Thelma Ritter performance is from 1953’s TITANIC. She got the best lines in the movie next to Clifton Webb, whom I despise.

R157 Snap!

Yeah. This never happened. Bette could be foul mouthed at times but she would never respond to a genuine compliment like that.

I've never read anything about Bette being mean to Marilyn on the All About Eve set. If she had been, it surely would've been written about a million times.

[quote] Who should have been cast as Eve instead of Anne Baxter? She wasn't bad, but I also feel another actress could've done a better job.

[quote] Eleanor Parker would have made a good Eve Harrington, who oddly enough was Oscar nominated in 1950 for “Caged”.

Eleanor Parker was a beautiful and talented actress who appeared in some outstanding films & highly entertaining "soapers". ("1950's "Three Secrets" is a personal favorite).

My issue with Miss Parker as an actress is that (like Bette Davis) she had a way of randomly breaking in into a phony, highfalutin, stagey & haughty way of speaking her lines which made no sense. Particularly in films in which she was portraying Low-Income/Middle Class Women. In parts of both (the otherwise brilliant) "Caged" and "Detective Story" she's downright cringy!

I say all of that to say, R90 you're absolutely right. Eleanor Parker would have made a BRILLIANT Eve Harrington! A charecter who's essentially a woman with a sketchy past/questionable background trying to break into high society/fame & fortune. Not only would Miss Parker have exhibited the warmth that Anne Baxter lacked, but she could have used all of the fancy, high class diction she wanted without spoiling her characterization.

It's unfortunate that Old Hollywood was more committed to studio roosters & contracts than appropriate casting.

[quote] Eleanor Parker would have made a BRILLIANT Eve Harrington

No, she was taller than the star.

[quote] No, she was taller than the star.

That's what flat shoes, bended knees, apple crates & camera angles are for, Dear.

"Any time she was threatened by a female co-star she made their lives hell."

This is totally untrue. (excpet late in life, when she went a bit off the deep end.) She worked well with most of her co-stars - even Joan, who she didn't like. They both stayed professional until the whole Oscar thing. Then, of course, she made Joan's life a living hell on "Hush Hush." SHe had very good relationships with Olivia DeHaviland, Geraldine Fitzgerald and Anne Baxter, to name only a few. The ones she didn't like were known for being difficult, like Miriam Hopkins and Faye Dunaway. Now directors were a whole other story. I'm sure she drove most of them crazy. (except Mankiewicz, who she loved.)

[quote]She was a popular child star, and a good singer, and she was lucky to be in some very good musicals of the era.

God you're an idiot. Yes, it was pure luck that someone as minimally talented as Judy Garland got to star in some first-class musicals.

[quote]The most obvious lesbianic moment was during the final scene when the young "fan" crashes Eve's suite. And Eve seductively tells her lust in her eyes, "You mustn't leave tonight. You'll be out all hours!"

Your "most obvious lesbianic moment" exists only in your imagination. Yes, she does say to Phoebe, "You won't get home until all hours" when Phoebe reveals she lives in Brooklyn. But Eve never says, "You mustn't leave tonight" or anything close to it. She never openly expresses her desire to have Phoebe stay. She doesn't need to. Phoebe has turned into Eve, and Eve has turned into Margo.

My issue with Anne Baxter's portrayal of Eve Harrington is that she (unintentionally) let the cat out the bag from the jump. You just knew she was a lying, backstabbing cunt the second she appeared on the screen! It was all over face and you felt it through her forced sweetness.

Miss Baxter may very well have been a nice lady personally, I have no idea. But "BITCH" practically ooozed out of her pores and shined bright on the screen for all to witness.

[quote] Well, more people voted for Judy Holliday, who was brilliant in her film, even if Davis and Swanson got equal amounts of votes.

R116, I thought it was common knowledge that Judy Holiday only won because of Anne Baxter's refusal to step out of the Best Actress catagory into the Supporting Actress one; essentially cutting a large chunk out of Davis' votes. But understandably, stepping aside would have been a tough pill to swallow for Anne Baxter since the film was named after her character. Miss Holiday merely got lucky because of a fluke. She was the least deserving of her Oscar out of all the ladies nominated that year!

[quote] Funny you say that, because I watched THE SOUND OF MUSIC first as a child and ALL ABOUT EVE later as a young adult. My initial impression of Baxter's performance as 'Eve' was that she was doing a poor imitation of The Baroness.

R128, I was a young film buff and first saw Anne Baxter in one of her early successes, 1944's "Guest In The House". And now that I think about it, the plot of the movie and Anne's character are similar to "All About Eve". From what I remember, Anne plays a bitch who infiltrates a happy family/group of friends, pretends to be nice for a day and then wrecks havoc for the rest of the movie. The only difference is that she eventually got her comeuppance in this film!

[quote] Your "most obvious lesbianic moment" exists only in your imagination. Yes, she does say to Phoebe, "You won't get home until all hours" when Phoebe reveals she lives in Brooklyn. But Eve never says, "You mustn't leave tonight" or anything close to it. She never openly expresses her desire to have Phoebe stay. She doesn't need to. Phoebe has turned into Eve, and Eve has turned into Margo.

Nonsense, R166. I didn't properly quote the exact dialogue because I didn't feel I needed to. But I stand by my original point.

Eve does in fact seductively say to Phoebe that "You won't get home until all hours", which I interpreted as "You might as well stay the night because it's very late".

That point was proven when Eve allowed Phoebe to open the door for Addison, instead of having her thrown out. Which I interpreted as Eve possibly keeping the girl on as a personal assistant/secretary of some sort. And YES, Eve is stepping into her "Margo" phase and Phoebe will become the new "Eve".

Bottom Line, the scene had lesbian undertones and you can't convince me it didn't.

I agree that the scene has strong lesbian overtones, R168. I never said otherwise. But you weakened your case with your completely made-up dialogue. If you were just going to write about what you sort of thought maybe Eve said to Phoebe, you shouldn't have put quotation marks around it.

R169, although I've watched "All About Eve" several times, I haven't done so in quite a few years. Certainly too long ago to recite exact dialogue!

But you're right. I made the mistake of quoting a scene as I remembered it as exact dialogue. I should of left out the quotation marks.

Now that I know that the widow of the late Robert Osbourne is looming over this discussion, I'll be more careful with future posts.

R11- Same.

Never explained how Celeste Holm siphoned the gas out of Bette's car. Did she have a hose and sucked it out manually while wearing a mink stole? Anyway, getting her stranded in the middle of nowhere was a good way to teach Bette a lesson. Those clever Mankowitz ladies!

Hopkins was no more "difficult" than Davis. Davis was just not fond of her at all.

Bette Davis & Miriam Hopkins, Old Acquaintance (1943)

Someday before I die am going to do what Bette does to Miriam to someone. Don't know who yet, but it will happen.

Charles Pierce!

These bitches today just don't know.

That R159 clip from Norma Jean and Marilyn has Nancy Linehan Charles as Bette. I thought it was a man,.

R152 “Remind me to tell you about the time I looked into the heart of an artichoke.” That line is aimed at her director boyfriend after he tells the conniving actress Eve about the time he “looked into the wrong end of a movie camera finder”.

Thank you, R177, but I knew when the dialogue occurred, I just don't see what it means/implies. I do know that, in French, having a cœur d'artichaut means you fall in love too easily but it seems unlikely that that's what Margo is driving at.

[quote]Anne Baxter was one of Frank Lloyd Wright’s grandchildren!

Nepo baby!

[quote] Hopkins was no more "difficult" than Davis. Davis was just not fond of her at all.

Correct, R173. Davis called Hopkins "difficult", "unprofessional" and "a bitch" to the press for 50 years. Tarnishing Hopkins' legacy with future generations who weren't around when she was a working actress and still accessible.

What Bette always failed to mention was the fact the she had an affair with Miriam's husband (director Anatole Litvak) while he was still married to her. So if there was tension on the set, Miriam had a damn good reason to be tense!

Miriam Hopkins went front being a Top Ten Box Office draw in 1937 or so, to signing with Warners around 1939, to getting shoved into "B" Pictures outside of her few Better Davis co-starring roles, to being all washed up in movies by 1943. (She didn't make another movie until her triumphant return in 1949's "My Cousin Rachel).

If Bette Davis hated Miss Hopkins enough to speak poorly of her to the press for almost 50 years, there's no doubt in my mind that she probably used her leverage and contacts at Warners to ruin Miriam's career.

[quote] I do know that, in French, having a cœur d'artichaut means you fall in love too easily but it seems unlikely that that's what Margo is driving at.

Actually, I didn’t know that, but that makes perfect sense. She’s accusing Bill of flirting with Eve.

R181, It seems dreadfully recherché to me.

[quote] Who should have been cast as Eve instead of Anne Baxter?

Barbara Bel Geddes, fresh off her Oscar nomination for I Remember Mama earlier that year (1949, when Eve was filmed). She looked far more like Davis than Baxter and she would have project the needed fresh face innocence at the beginning.

R180. Miriam Hopkins was not in My Cousin Rachel, which was released three years later. Perhaps you’re thinking of The Heiress. Both starred Olivia de Havilland.

I mean, since you are such a big fan of Hopkins and all.

R170. “Should have,” really? Obviously, you didn’t go to Radcliffe either—or elementary school, for that matter.

"Hopkins was notoriously difficult, and in many respects, it may have been her downfall. She was infamous for her temperamental attitude and being generally difficult while working on both stage and film. She regularly upstaged and undermined her co-stars and most of her directors were left exasperated."

Hopkins was awful in that clip with Davis.

A perfectionist and control freak, Miss Hopkins battled with directors, co-stars, wardrobe and hair & makeup. She could throw a mean tantrum and halt production until she was good and satisfied. Not only did her upstaging antics rile her co-stars, she also had an annoying habit of "directing" scene partners if she felt their interpretation wasn't to her satisfaction. Past co-stars George Raft, Paul Muni, Edward G. Robinson, and Errol Flynn refused to work with her again.

R186, Miriam Hopkins’ acting in “The Old Maid” is so over the top, especially compared to Bette’s.

Hopkins could do straightforward comedy (she's wonderful in the Lubitsch pre-codes) which Davis was awful at.

And an arguing that a Bette Davis performance is in any way not over-the-top is a losing game. Come on here.

R186/R188 Damn. I didn't know people really acted like that back then. I thought that was just in the movies.

[quote] Barbara Bel Geddes, fresh off her Oscar nomination for I Remember Mama earlier that year

Based on her acting in "Dallas," I don't think BBG would've been a good "Eve."

R188 - Nobody ever claimed George Raft or Errol Flynn were great actors. And Paul Muni was a big hambone.

Yes Judy was lucky to be in MEET ME IN ST LOUIS, because she was both too old and too ugly for the part, knew it herself, didn't want to be in it, was hell to work with, was upstaged by Margaret O'Brien, didn't understand the movie, and was the first to be surprised by its (enormous) success. She could sing in that sad, heavy fashion of the day like Piaf, but she was nota very good actress, and she was not a pro. Also she had a very mean streak and it shows in the movie.

^as for Monroe, we all know how she "convinced " the producers to give her the part

Meet Me In St. Louis and esp. The Trolley Song are classics. r195 aka "ancient white fags" troll is full of shit as usual.

R196 for your information, Marilyn got the part in ALL ABOUT EVE (and THE ASPHALT JUNGLE) via her agent Johnny Hyde.

Marilyn Monroe was sucking any cock that could advance her career, including Johnny Hyde's. She basically WAS the casting couch

[quote] Meet Me In St. Louis and esp. The Trolley Song are classics

yes , and she was very lucky they were given to HER, it lauched a career she never knew what to do with, money that was spent on drugs and tricks, and brought her a family that she could never do anything for

[quote]Meet Me In St. Louis and esp. The Trolley Song are classics

Also, "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" has become a Christmas standard.

I often hear Judy's version being played throughout December.

Many of Margo 's speeches are word for word rants that Mank heard from K. Hepburn in her dressing room and she never forgave him, hence their bitter feud in SUDDENLY LAST SUMMER and the reason why she spat in his face, it was not all about Monty

New topic: let's be R195!

Cary Grant was very lucky to have caught Mae West's notice in the early 30s. Audiences could just about bear his one-note acting and contrived "posh" accent in a few light comic roles, which then led to a series of bigger parts in which he was characteristically out-acted by a leopard, a glass of milk, and a crop duster. It's no wonder his grotesquely deformed chin and unctuous, heavy-handed charm never got him so much as an Oscar nomination.

^ Also he only had one front tooth

R195 = Deanna Durbin,

R203 again, asshole. He was twice nominated for Best Actor-/for “Penny Serenade” and “None But the Lonely Heart.” He was (arguably) better than the winners, Gary Cooper and Bing Crosby.”

Pretty sure r203 was a spoof.

[quote]Pretty sure R203 was a spoof.

The giveaway was that it was preceded by the following: "New topic: let's be R195!"

Dirt on Miriam Hopkins and Bette Davis supposed feud and making of "Old Acquaintance".

For start Bette Davis and Miriam Hopkins had gone way back, both were in George Cukor's studio repertory group (Cukor-Kondolf Stock Company). Among members of troupe were: troupe that included Louis Calhern, Ilka Chase, Phyllis Povah, Frank Morgan, Reginald Owen, Elizabeth Patterson and Douglass Montgomery, Miriam Hopkins and soon a young Bette Davis.

Bette Davis only lasted one season before being let go (fired, or whatever) but of her George Cukor said: "Her talent was apparent, but she did buck at direction. She had her own ideas, and though she only did bits and ingenue roles, she didn't hesitate to express them." For the next several decades, Davis claimed she was fired, and although Cukor never understood why she placed so much importance on an incident he considered so minor, he never worked with her again.

Bette Davis may have left the troupe due to unwanted advances from George Kondolf, a man who had a reputation of being too free with his hands.

Thus long before Hollywood Bette Davis and Miriam Hopkins knew each other and also seeds of famous feud were planted.

Miriam Hopkins considered herself a darn good dramatic stage actress. She originated the role of Julie Marsden in stage version of "Jezebel" (which didn't do very well). When Hollywood got the script and Miriam Hopkins didn't get the role of "Julie", but Bette Davis did set Ms. Hopkins off. MH was further outraged when BD won an Oscar for "Jezebel".

Some bright bulb had the idea of casting Miriam Hopkins and Bette Davis in "Old Maid". The former proceeded to make the latter's misery on that film her life's work.

"When they worked together on The Old Maid, a jealous, insecure Hopkins tried to undermine, upstage, and disrupt Davis’ performance by messing with makeup (both women were supposed to age throughout the film, but Hopkins would re-do her makeup just before takes so that she looked much younger than Davis), props, (fussing with them or holding them in front of Davis) and blocking (moving around so as to obscure Davis from the camera)"

R205 Deanna had no reason to speak ill of Garland; while Deanna was let go from MGM, she was immediately hired by Universal and became a star with her first picture in 1936. It took Judy years to catch up to her. It was Judy who was rather envious of Deanna actually, though they did start off as friends But MGM basically played them against each other, so over time they were more like frenemies. Both hugely talented.

Deanna Durbin.

Born Canadian.

Grew up American.

Lived the rest of her long adult life as a Frenchwoman.

Edna Mae Durbin (Deanna Durbin) saved Universal films from bankruptcy and by 1946 was second highest paid women in USA after Bette Davis.

Possessed of great acting talent and with a legitimate lyric soprano voice the young woman was more sure of herself than Judy Garland IMHO. Why they were hyped as some sort of rivals I never understood.

DD always came off to me as a young lady with Judy Garland just not in same league.

Nope, not in same league at all.

That's it! Deanna as Eve Harrington! Her last film before she retired to France. They could have added a few songs too.

R41, uh no. The "s" is not pronounced when saying it in the French manner. That's why I said it was a sign of her sophistication, though I seek latitude in stating that learning a smattering of French is a marker for sophistication.

BTW, do you pronounce the "s" in the first part of the phrase?

R213 Deanna's contract had already not been picked up by the time MGM filmed her and Judy in "Every Sunday", so the film slightly favors Judy in giving her somewhat more to do than Deanna in the scripted scenes and in more screen time. Deanna was a very pretty girl and had a great classical voice. Judy was cute and sang jazz smashingly.

Since Universal, Deanna's studio, was not really known for musicals (other than "Show Boat" which didn't succeed at the box office), most of Deanna's films weren't true musicals, but comedies with songs for her to sing in each of them. The fact that she was playing opposite and learning from excellent actors like Charles Laughton, Herbert Marshall, Adolph Menjou, Franchot Tone, etc. in her films really made her into a very fine actress, especially good at comedy.

R157, may I ask why you "despise" Clifton Webb?

R217, Because he played himself in every movie?

I'm not R157 but Webb was a prissy effeminate Mummy's Boy.

Are we supposed to believe he fornicated with that dragon?

R219, Or fathered all those children.

[quote]Are we supposed to believe he fornicated with that dragon?

What dragon?

Pete's Dragon, Rose.

In case you haven't already, watch here with the Audio Commentary with Christopher Mankiewicz, Celeste Holm, and the fabulous Ken Geist biographer of Joe Mankiewicz.

r219, If you've never met an effeminate man who has children with a woman, you need to get out more.

R224 Are you talking about effeminate heterosexuals?

Or are you talking about mature gay men who were so self-unaware that they foolishly entered into a heterosexual marriage?

R225, I think he’s talking about fags.

Birdie dressed up modestly (for Birdie) at the awards banquet at the top of the show and the end would have been a nice touch.

A shot of her rolling her eyes (or not -- Thelma's choices worked always) would have taken a few seconds and not required any dialogue.

Maybe it was scheduling or something else.

I like the idea of explaining her absence but I"m not sure Eve firing Birdie or doing away with her would have worked; the latter would have changed the direction of the film; Birdie wouldn't have stood for the former.

I think Birdie went to Reno to get a divorce, and settled there

r228 L'amour, l'amour!

And why in heaven's name would I invite my dresser/assistant to the very exclusive Sara Siddens Award ceremony?

“Margo Channing Samson”

Oh, dear.

Is it true that Margo Channing is based on Talulah Bankhead?

Joseph Mankiewicz said in interviews that it was based on an incident involving actress Ina Claire.

R232, the original short story, "The Wisdom of Eve" by Mary Orr, was inspired by an incident that happened to her friend, actress Elisabeth Bergner, during the run of a play directed by Orr's husband Reginald Denham.

"All About Eve" was a loose adaptation of the short story, and although Mankiewicz may or may not have based Margo on Tallulah, Edith Head took inspiration from Tallulah when designing Miss Davis' costumes.

Wasn't the Elisabeth Bergner situation somewhat...lesbionic?

Lizabeth Scott was somehow involved with the bergner story wasn't she ?

There was an adjacent thing that had a Mankiewicz connection that Joe no doubt drew upon. Rose Stradner who would become Mrs. Mank was a 1930s stage star in Vienna and future two-time Oscar-winner Luise Rainer was her understudy.

Lizabeth Scott was the understudy for Tallulah Bankhead in the original Broadway production of "The Skin of Our Teeth". The two women did not get along and Bankhead stubbornly never missed a performance.

God knows Marilyn couldn't make two sentences meet, but I re-watched RIVER OF NO RETURN recently, and found her quite good. She held the screen beautifully (which we know), but she was very believable, sang well, played the guitar, and didn't use her usual high-pitched breezy baby "marilyn" voice and mannerisms. Also, she had great chemistry with Bob Mitchum. Maybe she could've mde a decent actress in the right parts after all.

For all the recent, justified complaints about co-leads suddenly becoming supporting actors at Oscar time (category fraud), when it comes to AAE there persists the theory that Anne Baxter promoted herself into the best actress race. No, no, no. The movie has two female leads, and if that hurt Davis’s chances, it was just the Oscar breaks. A tough call—but personally, I would have been rooting for Judy Holliday, fresh, hilarious, and finally quite touching.

I WAS A CO-LEAD IN GWTW !!!!

GWTW clearly centers on Scarlett. AAE centers on the deception played on Margot and others—by Eve. I think its best scene doesn’t even have Bette Davis in it—the New Haven hotel room scene between Sanders and Baxter.

R242 = ghost of Joan Fontaine

I don't understand why Addison wants Eve.

The title character is not necessarily the protagonist.

Like in THE WIZARD OF OZ, for example.

And sometimes, the title character does not even appear in the film at all.

—Or Bye Bye Birdie. I don’t think Eve is the single protagonist. I think AAE is a movie with two female leads.

R234- Gary Merrill was really handsome looking back then. I would have licked his balls and sucked his cock to completion back then- unfortunately I was not born for many years.

"I don't understand why Addison wants Eve."

Addison likely fucked his way through enough chorus girls and want to be actresses (like the MM character). He needed something more, a woman that was going places and he could ride along for what could get.

Eve was attractive enough, but she also was a cold, calculating, lying and grifting bitch. Sort of person who would throw their own mother under a bus to get at what they wanted (or needed). Eve and Addison thus suited each other right to ground.

Addison saw that Eve was a talent (despite her other less savory qualities). She had some success on Broadway and was going out west where Hollywood beckoned. Allison would work his Svengali routine on Eve until he got all he wanted or could, then moved on to next victim.

Incidentally, the movie is currently free to watch on YouTube.

BTW: Someone in the comments named Nancy Anderson had this to say about her reevaluation of the film:

[quote]“I’m a woman,” says Margo. Defined by who? The writer of this film. I just noticed that Eve, like the ballerina in the RED SHOES gets smacked around for being ambitious. I just noticed that all the women in this film are inadequate in themselves. Arrogant, or evil or side kick or sweet friend. So many movies, so many air heads, vamps, male satellites, cheats, man-made forms full of man-made words and moods. It’s as if I never saw this movie before. Paper dolls, paper molls, paper puss. Bette Davis in real life was a real woman. Maybe that’s why I bought her Margo invention for sixty years. The times they are achanging …

Is this a 'woke' interpretation of the film? Remember when ALL ABOUT EVE was praised as a great showcase for actresses, because, other than Addison, the male characters are all ciphers.

R247, After the divorce from Bette, Gary upgraded to Rita Hayworth.

I've only seen Gary Merrill in All About Eve and he gave me Harrison Ford in Working Girl vibes, for some reason.

You would think when Eve asked to be Margo's understudy they would have realized her true nature. Or did they just let anybody be an understudy back then?

Well, she had to audition...

She didn't audition. She read with Miss Caswell, because Margo was late.

Remember when AMC's original documentary series "Backstory" did an episode of the making of the film in the early 2000s?

God, I miss that show -- and when AMC stood for American Movie Classics.

Kenneth Geist said that he disliked the Sam Staggs book All About All About Eve. I listened to Sam's DVD Audio Commentary and he when he is talking about casting Margo he doesn't even mention Claudette Colbert. So I am team Geist.

I don't buy that Bette couldn't laugh on cue. She'd done it in plenty of movies. Celeste was a bitch. Interesting that Holm never mentioned her feud with Bette till after she was dead.

The story is that Celeste could do what she called a champagne laugh which Bette could not. It's more a singer's laugh and Bette was no singer.

You can say that again!

R69 How does Anne Baxter look "portly"?

Gary Merrill retired to Falmouth, Maine, and, as this obit states, was known around town for wearing skirts. He said he did this in the hot weather because it was cooler. I remember reading something in the Boston Globe about this "eccentricity" when he was still a alive (in an interview with him, I think).

[quote]I've only seen Gary Merrill in All About Eve

Turn in your gay card immediately and face the wall

Check out The Outer Limits: The Human Factor.

R244, that's the big plot hole for me.

They should have tied them together financially or something.

Addison worships the theater, yet he will never be a part of it. The people who are hate him for his scathing reviews and spreading of gossip about them. At that time Eve is the hottest star on Broadway and the center of the theater world. By possessing Eve, controlling her, he gains acceptance into the world he's always dreamed of inhabiting. No one can keep him out of the most exclusive parties or events when he's Eve's plus one. He neither loves her nor lusts for her. She is a means to an end for him.

excellent point R265

he did, after all, crash Margo's party.

[quote]He neither loves her nor lusts for her. She is a means to an end for him.

She's more than that. Watch the scene and notice how emotional George Sanders gets in the hotel room scene at times. No he doesn't love her but he probably has a perverse sexual attraction to her, because he wants to be dominant over her and posess her. I don't think it's all explainable in practical terms. If he was a means to an end he would hardly talk about how completely she belongs to him.

R268 I. e. it's a sick, unhealthy relationship, but it's definitely obsessive on his part. Not casual. emotionally.

"Addison, what are you doing here? I distinctly remember crossing you off my guestlist."

My favorite line is Addison's: "I know nothing of Lloyd and his loves, I leave those Louisa May Alcott." Or it's the way Sanders delivers it.

*I leave those to...

All About My Ass

Addison explains it with "That I should want you at all, suddenly strikes me as the height of improbability. But that, in itself, is probably the reason. You’re an improbable person, Eve, and so am I. We have that in common. Also, our contempt for humanity and inability to love, and be loved, insatiable ambition, and talent. We deserve each other."

That Karen mentions Abbott and Costello makes it a classic.

Llyod Richards : Eve did mention the play, but in passing. She'd never ask to play a part like Cora. She'd never have the nerve.

Karen : Eve would ask Abbott to give her Costello.

“To begin with, your name is not Eve Harrington. It's Gertrude Slescynski.

What of it?”

For some reason it cracks me up when Karen says "Not at all" and Eve says "Nothing of the kind."

Bette Davis said the AAE script that was sent to her in Maine after Colbert was injured was exactly what was filmed, not one word was changed.

I love that his obit literally said “colorful actor who had a history of wearing skirts”

Today in that context he would be labeled a “non-binary, genderqueer” but back then, he was a “colorful” person

[quote]“To begin with, your name is not Eve Harrington. It's Gertrude Slescynski.

At least it wasn't Esther Blodgett.

If Anne Baxter was put into supporting actress who could have been dumped?

Josephine Hull – Harvey Hope Emerson – Caged Celeste Holm – All About Eve Nancy Olson – Sunset Blvd. Thelma Ritter – All About Eve

'you're too short for that gesture."

love it.

Anyone read All About All About Eve?

Great book. the author opens it with a phone call he had with Celeste Holm; it's not much of a conversation but it's cool that he got her on the phone.

Celestial Holm.

R282 - I like to read the bad reviews.

I am so proud of myself - I got through 256 pages of this rubbish, albeit I needed a few days between reads to clock up said pages. Many reviewers have stated that the "novel" started off well - sure, if you think a transcript of a phone call between Celeste Holm and the author, whereby she refuses to answer any questions, is riveting.

Why did I stop at 256 pages? Frankly, I was concerned for the author's mental stability when he started breaking down the meaning of EVERY SINGLE LINE spoken in the film. It's almost like he couldn't be bothered doing actual research on the history of this film so decided to pad it out with homosexual-psycho bias that has nothing to do with reality. NEWSFLASH: the gay community did not create Hollywood, nor are they more responsible for the success of certain films than heterosexual cinemagoers. Considering gay people make up roughly 20% of the population, it makes sense that most of these classic films become so through mostly heterosexual patronage. The cast of Eve, the director/writer, producer, costume designer - all heterosexual. This is a point completely lost on Staggs who belongs to the uptight, anxious ridden middle-aged flock who believe this movie belongs to him and his friends - a three page hypothetical conversation between them reveals this shrill, pseudo fawn and it's agony to read. If one can read it at all: I consider my vocabulary to be above average but even I needed a dictionary close at hand. Staggs, like an 8th grader, believes using the most obscure word with the most syllables makes his text more impressive; all it does is reveal his limitations as a writer as often he uses a word in the wrong context and that's because he has never heard of half the terms he picks out of a thesaurus and throws on the page. It never occurred to him that writing can be a lot more effective using colloquial expressions. He also belabours points, going into unnecessary biographical detail of every small character connected to the movie, both on-screen and off until you get to wondering if the background of such an important picture could be so dull.

All About Eve is a great movie and deserves an important treatment - this isn't it.

The end result? Stagg's ruthless determination to shove down our throats how important this movie is to HIM instead of THE READER makes one relieved he had absolutely nothing to do with creating the classic movie All about Eve nor its legacy.

I can't recall another book that started off so well and so quickly descended into utter garbage. Oh wait! Yes I can! The same author's book about Sunset Boulevard. All the supposition and just plain smarmy attitude of All About All About Eve do this wonderful movie a tremendous injustice. The word "camp" should be outlawed due to overuse.

The opportunity to write a behind the scenes account of the making of one of the best films of all times has been missed by Sam Skaggs. While he has done a good amount of research, he has not been at all discerning in writing about what he has discovered. Nor has he availed himself of a good editor or a good copyeditor. The result is a repetitive mess of mixed metaphors and labored prose with little insight into the creative process of movie making. Finally, his search for meaning in even the most inconsequential details of Mankiewicz' screenplay and direction borders on ridiculous. Though Skaggs is acquainted with Freud (there's a chapter called, "Tell That To Dr. Freud Along With The Rest of It") he clearly has never learned that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

R284, I take it that the words above are of a reviewer not yours.

I mean honestly, sure, the author dissects it like a frog in high school biology.

But the reviewer sure read through a lot of it before giving up.

Honestly, sounds like he's jealous.

52% - 5 stars

a total of 7% for 1 or 2 stars

^ for the All About book

The music score by Alfred Newman is great. The brassy main title and finale, the strings-and-woodwinds themes throughout. The theme for Eve and the theme for Margo.

When I was a teenager I picked up a paperback copy of the screenplay at a yard sale. The last third or so of the book (following the screenplay) was an interview with Mankiewicz. I think it was one of those interviews where they cut out the questions and it's as if it's a monologue. It was very informative, at a time when you didn't get a lot of background info about old films.

In that interview/monologue, Mankiewicz strongly avers that Claudette Colbert, had she been able to continue, would have been just as good a Margo as Bette Davis. Does anyone agree with him?

some of Bette's husbands were real dishes. Gary was hawt, but she was also married at some point to a bombshell for the ages. The type that would lit Insta and OF like a christmas tree

^ B.D.'s father, William Grant Sherry (#3)

I just noticed that the above tweet received a reply from Erna. Yuck!

R284, why the multiple posts? Couldn't you fit it all into one post? I'm talking about r284, r285, r286 and other screeds throughout this topic.

It is hard to imagine Colbert as Margo. I don't think I've ever seen her do anything similar. As good an actress as she was, playing neurotic and insecure and mercurial wasn't what she normally did. She tended to be knowing and down to earth. Would have been very different.

I think Claudette Colbert had underrated chops - I recently saw the first Imitation of Life and she was incredible in it, blew Lana Turner out of the water. And she could for sure have handled the comedy aspects of Margo’s character. I’m not sure she would have been as iconic as Bette, but we just don’t know.

Claudette could do almost anything, she could have played the part. I've never seen her in a bad performance. But I don't think she went out on a limb very much. She seems very technical. Very smart. Not a lot of real heart and soul. She leaves me a little bit cold, great as she was. Bette, on the other hand, her emotions almost leap off the screen. Her lines have real bite because she means them. We're always wondering what her reactions will be, when she might blow. I do think Claudette was very impressive as an actress, though. It's kind of apples and oranges, like the difference between Cary Grant and Spencer Tracy. Or Robert Montgomery and James Cagney.

I think Mankiewicz was bound to say Claudette would have done justice to the part as much as Bette because from his point of view, he was the star, the writer-creator. Such a good part didn't take only one actress to define it. (He would tend to think.) But of course Bette made it extra special.

R296 - Bette tells you

less old ladies, more William Grant Sherry, please

William Grant Sherry was hot. Was Bette a size queen? She proclaimed to have not liked sex at all in later years.

Willliam Grant Sherry had a horse dick if ever he had one . All his being screams "HUNG"

Didn't Mr. Sherry marry the nanny?

William Sherry was that cunt BD's father.

Pics of said Willial Sherry pls

here

we've had that one already. Is that all there is ?

R304, Yes, and they remained married until he died in 2003 at age 88.

I’ll bet Bette was getting it regularly.

Wooooffff. Can we see his legs and feets please ?

Here he is.

This one is slightly different to the one I already posted but, importantly, features his feets.

FFFFUUUUUUUCK WHAT A STUD

getting married.

Bette was a naughty girl. That hunk must have been quite sensational in the sack

I remember in one of the Bette bios it said that when she first met Horst Buchholz, she kissed him on the mouth.

Reportedly, Bette cured Howard Hughes of his premature ejaculation affliction.

All About Eve was the last time Bette Davis really looked fabulous. The cigs and booze caught up with her HARD not too long after that and really aged her into a harridan.

Bette Davis was a small woman. One of my mom's friends who saw her at a hotel in New Hampshire in the late 40s said she was "very petite." When she gained weight, it really showed.

Bette and Sherry on the wedding day. He was an artist.

I'm disappointed in you Queens. All of this William Grant Sherry drooling and no one's mentioned the fact that Bette's lady parts weren't the only thing he was fond of beating up. Mr. Sherry reportedly had a violent temper and would often kick the shit out of Bette during their frequent drunken brawls. Slapping, punching, kicking, etc. Whatever suited him at the time.

Not to make excuses for Bill because there aren't any, but Bette could throw a razor sharp barb with the best of 'em. I'm sure she cut him up good & often with the insults she hurled.

R321, Bette’s marriage to Gary Merrill was also filled with drunken brawling.

Maybe she liked it rough.

Bette could probably give as good as she got with those horse hung drunkards. Didn't one of her husbands randomly die of a blood clot caused by a skull fracture...and Bette said she had just NO idea how he got it?

[quote] All About Eve was the last time Bette Davis really looked fabulous. The cigs and booze caught up with her HARD not too long after that and really aged her into a harridan.

R318,, I'm assuming that those rowing/swimsuit shots of Bette & Bill Sherry were taken at the beginning of their marriage in 1945 or 1946. In those shots, Bette still looks like a fairly attractive, somewhat youthful 30 something.

She had B.D. in the Spring of 1947. When she reported back to Warners in 1948 for the movie "Winter Meeting", she wrote in her memoirs that it basically was the first time they had to shoot her with "soft lightning", ​behind a frosted shower glass, smeared with Vaseline to make her look presentable. She was crushed. I think it was a combination of the drinking, excessive smoking, childbirth at an advanced age, career stresses and a bad marriage that aged her so rapidly.

And by the time "All About Eve" cane around in 1950, she had aged even more and put on weight. BUT great care was taken with her hair, makeup and gowns. She looked fabulous and you're correct R318, it was the last time she ever did on film.

After that she looked like a hard, pudgy, middle aged, old spinster. And remained that way until her stroke in the Early 80s. Then she looked as if she was on her death bed for her final 7 years or so. Which she was.....

[quote] Didn't one of her husbands randomly die of a blood clot caused by a skull fracture...and Bette said she had just NO idea how he got it?

R323, that was husband Number 2, Arthur Farnsworth. Bette swore until the day she died that he was the most handsome of all her husbands.

Years ago I read a book or article suggesting that Bette may have had something to do with his death. Supposedly Art had bugged her bedroom and had audio & other proof of her sexual trysts with either Howard Hughes or George Brent (I can't remember which one) and was blackmailing her. The book didn't flat out say that Bette had him offed but they suggested it as a possibility.

[quote] I remember in one of the Bette bios it said that when she first met Horst Buchholz, she kissed him on the mouth.

Big deal.

BD doesn't look that bad in "Winter Meeting". However it is clear she was no longer young as she once was.

Now James Davis OTOH... What a man!

SHe still looked very Margo-like in her next film, Another Man's Poison. It was all downhill from there, looks-wise...

R329, now that I've given it more thought, we probably should take into account those unflattering 1950s fashions. Women who had looked like youthful, sexy 30-somethings in the Late 1940s became Middle-Aged Matrons & mothers of teenagers overnight in 1950. Jane Wyman, Barbara Stanwyck, Joan Bennett, Lana Turner, Ann Sheridan and countless other formally sexy actresses all aged 15 to 20 years during the first few years of the 1950s. Those damn poodle haircuts, buttoned up shirts with Peter Pan collars and little box hats stop their heads did none of them any favors!

Joan Crawford looked FABULOUS in her1950 offering, "The Damned Don't Cry". But her boozing, etc made her look as "hard" as a Kabuki mask by the time 1952's "Sudden Fear" came around. She at least remained a handsome woman and fashion plate in her films for the rest of the decade.

Loretta Young probably fared the best of all the Old Hollywood Movie Queens. She rejected the dreaded poodle cut, looked pretty in her last few films and quit movies in 1954. She then produced her own TV Show where she remained a youthful & glamorous clothes horse for years.

In the wardrobe test pics for AAE Bette looks younger than she looked in the film.

r324 that's a good summary on how Bette aged so badly. Also, she spent the entire 1950s drinking her ass off and fighting with Gary Merrill. That marriage put a terrible stress on her looks.

Here’s Bette and Gary on “Person to Person” in 1956.

Though seven years older than Gary, she looks even older than that.

BD with the gorgeous Glen Ford in "A Stolen Life"

I despise whoever gave BD that hairstyle. Forget effing poodle cut; Bette Davis wouldn't let go of that page-boy hairstyle until death. IIRC she even had wigs (or borrowed from studio) in same cut.

R334 So if you didn't like her in the pageboy or the poodle cut, what hairstyle do you think she should have had?? Something she never wore that you imagine in your mind?

Bette Davis aged like a typical Northern New England Yankee woman. 3/4ths of them age like that. It's probably genetic. Also they're fairly anti-glamour and Bette was never really a glamour girl by choice.

When she appeared in the documentary on William Wyler which was pre-stroke, it appears she still had her own hair despite Mia Farrow saying that by Death in the Nile Bette was bald.

The working title of the film was "Best Performance."

"Fuck All About Eve. The real masterpiece about women and theater is Gregory La Cava’s Stage Door, a film which casts Katharine Hepburn, Ginger Rogers, Eve Arden, Lucille Ball and many other RKO women of the era as out-of-work actresses in a theatrical boarding house called The Footlights Club. Excitingly feminist, marked by the Depression, and obsessed by the sound of women talking, yelping, singing and generally whooping it up, Stage Door, though well-loved by many, has never garnered a big reputation, probably because La Cava himself has been overlooked in studies of major directors of the period.

Like Leo McCarey, La Cava didn’t like to stick to a script, and he took his improvisational methods radically far in Stage Door. For two weeks, he had his actresses rehearse on the Footlights Club set, and he engaged a stenographer to take down what they said during breaks. This loose chat was then incorporated into the film (Arden often took the lines no one else would touch). La Cava had no use for the source material, an anti-Hollywood play by George S. Kaufman and Edna Ferber which preached the superiority of the legitimate theater, and so he started from scratch and used what he had: his one-of-a-kind cast.

Stage Door is the defining film about the 1930s working girl. However, the women who lounge around the Footlights Club don’t do all that much working, which means that money is always tight. When snooty Linda (Gail Patrick) sweeps into the main room in the opening scene, Rogers’s Jean Maitland marches in and peels the silk stockings right off her legs. “I didn’t go without lunch to buy you stockings,” she says, and when Linda calls her a “little hoyden” and a “guttersnipe,” Jean gives her a shove. The other girls watch this catfight jubilantly, throwing out the first of an endless series of bright remarks."

[quote]With the release of All About Eve, Twentieth Century-Fox inaugurated a revolutionary "scheduled performances" screening policy, which required exhibitors to show the film only at designated times, with no late seating. The Harrrison's Reports review explained, "The purpose is to make patrons see the picture from the beginning so that they May fully understand and enjoy the proceedings, and thus give it favorable word-of-mouth advertising." The studio also stipulated in its exhibition contracts that the film receive single billing: no other feature-length picture could be shown on the same program. This policy was tested at the film's world premiere run at New York's Roxy, but after a week of scheduled performances, the Roxy reverted to the established practice of running the film continuously and permitting patrons to enter at any time. According to an October 18, 1950 news item in Hollywood Reporter, "confusion arose because of the public's deeply ingrained habit of going to a movie show at any desired hour, when most convenient or on impulse. A Hollywood Reporter item the following day described the failure of Twentieth Century-Fox's screening experiment but applauded the studio for trying to change the public's viewing habits.

(From the TCM website)

It's interesting that in more recent times this way of showing movies came to pass. When I was a little kid, in the '60s, it was still common to be able to walk into a movie at any time. People often saw movies that way - the second half first, then the first half, for example. When I tell younger people this is the way it always was, they can't believe it.

*And you could stay and sit through it as many times as you wanted to.

[quote]an anti-Hollywood play by George S. Kaufman and Edna Ferber which preached the superiority of the legitimate theater,

Do you have a problem with that?

r349, Isn't that where the phrase, "This is where I came in" originated?

R343 Yes.

They eviscerated the play so much, r338, George S. Kaufman suggested they change the title to "Screen Door."

Stage Door: Lucy talks about Kate.

[quote] an anti-Hollywood play by George S. Kaufman and Edna Ferber which preached the superiority of the legitimate theater, Do you have a problem with that?

You're dern tootin I do.The theatre. The theatre. What book of rules say the theatre exists only within some ugly buildings crowded into one square mile of New York City? Or London? Paris or Vienna?

Listen, Junior, and learn. Do you wanna know what the theatre is? A flea circus. Also opera. Also rodeos, carnivals, ballets, Indian tribal dances, Punch and Judy, a one-man band, all theatre. Wherever there's magic and make-believe and an audience, there's theatre. Donald Duck, Ibsen and The Lone Ranger. Sarah Bernhardt and Poodles Hanneford. Lunt and Fontanne, Betty Grable. Rex the Wild Horse, Eleonora Duse, all theatre.

You don't understand them all. You don't like them all. Why should you? The theatre's for everybody, you included, but not exclusively. So, don't approve or disapprove. It may not be your theatre, but it's theatre for somebody, somewhere.

Why does Stage Door get so much revisionist praise that hinges on tearing down other (better and more popular) female centric movies as somehow being secretly sexist? I’ve seen The Women and All About Eve both torn down for the sake of propping up Stage Door’s reputation.

I wish I could find the episode of The RKO Story that talks about Stage Door. Katharine Hepburn has a lot to say.

R348 Well, it's obvious why the feminists would prefer Stage Door since there's no speech about how women need men to feel fulfilled.

Mankiewicz never surpassed All About Eve. In my opinion the best things he did after Eve were 5 Fingers (1952), Julius Caesar (1953), and Sleuth (1972). The Barefoot Contessa is ok - like an All About Eve of the movies, without the humor. He was also the director of the Cold War Rod Serling TV drama A Carol For Another Christmas. And Suddenly, Last Summer (1959), which is pretty good, too.

Mankiewicz wanted to be a playwright but the play he wrote was reportedly dull and never produced. They say to write what you know but he didn't know the theatre. When he wrote a film about movies where he had been working for 20 years, The Barefoot Contessa, it was a flop.

R350 I never took "The Women" in that regard seriously. Mary comes off as simpering and ridiculous, as do the rest of the ladies who lunch to some degree. Stage Door is much less entertaining and well made than either to me, maybe it's because I'm not a particular fan of K. Hepburn and Ginger, but I totally adore both Bette and Joan?

[quote] Claudette Colbert … As good an actress as she was.

She wasn't an actress, she merely stood in front of a camera.

If you saw her on stage she looked like an overweight pigmy who occasionally stumped across to different parts of the stage.

And, of course, she wore two body-microphones.

"House of Strangers" and "No Way Out," made just before "Eve," are both pretty good and very well acted.

No love for A Letter to Three Wives??

R354 Interesting that all she did was stand in front of a camera. Who was that bathing in asses' milk in The Sign Of The Cross or rolling out of a rug in Cleopatra?

More just standing there.

R354 = The Ghost of Marlene Dietrich

Colbert always struck me as rather bland.

R52, to continue, regarding wardrobe mistresses: They got two things to do — carry clothes and press ‘em wrong and don’t let nobody muscle in on their act.

Colbert did a good job of anchor the war-time domestic drama Since You Went Away. Agnes Moorehead does great work in a small role as an I. Magnum-shopping, Merle Norman-using rich bitch. Even Monty Woolley is affecting and not his usual hammy self. Jennifer Jones and Robert Walker pair nicely (was this before she left him for Selznick?) only downside is Shirley Temple demonstrating why she left acting in adulthood.

I love Bette Davis and she deserved the Oscar that year. Yet, she was a rebel, which I admire. She made enemies, and that probably contributed to her loss.

As for Baby Jane, Anne Bancroft and Lee Remick were superb in their films. Yet, Bette ruffled too many feathers and she lost.

[quote] I. Magnum-shopping

Oh, dear.

Colbert was incredible in comedies, capable and sometimes good in dramas. The Palm Beach Story is an all time favorite.

[quote]Colbert was incredible in comedies, capable and sometimes good in dramas.

What about as a 1934 version of Cleopatra?

The year Colbert won the Oscar for It Happened One Night she was also in Cleopatra and Imitation Of Life, as well as DeMille's stragne (but I think, good) adventure-comedy-drama, Four Frightened People. Great year for her.

Agnes Moorehead was Selznick's second choice for the part in Since You Went Away. He really wanted Ruth Gordon, and tried hard to entice her to do it, but she wasn't interested. Not sure why he was so keen on her for it, but he wrote it so I guess he would know. She doesn't seem like the type.

*strange. ha

Bette glammed it up once more with Merrill in 1958's The Starmaker, a pale AAE Studio 57 knockoff with Davis as agent Paula Brand and Merrill as her husband. Instead of Footsteps on the Ceiling and Remembrance, we get Pipe Dream and Brief Candle, and Joi Lansing imitating Monroe. Old Broadway ham Ian Keith plays an old Broadway ham fixated on getting his son to follow in his footsteps. Father and son drop lots of purses.

Tom Pittman, who played the son, was obsessed with James Dean. So obsessed that he also drove a 550 Spyder all over LA at breakneck speeds. Several months after The Starmaker aired, Pittman lost control of his Spyder and died upon impact at the bottom of a Benedict Canyon ravine, very near where Montgomery Clift's infamous accident occurred.

[quote] Joi Lansing imitating Monroe

Joi was your typical 1950s lesbian next door

"I get such a boot out of it when you sing 'Babalu'!"

R370, Joi was one of Sinatra’s receptacles for years.

R364. That was autocorrect and my not proofing, I swear, but I kinda like it!

Actresses who might have made better Eves: Patricia Neal, Ann Blyth, Jean Simmons, Angela Lansbury, Eleanor Parker, Deborah Kerr, Ava Gardner, Kim Stanley, Elizabeth Taylor, Janet Leigh.

R374, A British Eve Harrington?

No, R375--Simmons, Lansbury, and Kerr could all do convincing American accents.

R374 Lansbury towered over Davis. Ever see Death On The NIle? She was 5' 8" So was Neal. Elizabeth Taylor was still a teenager. Ava Gardner? No.

Did Deborah Kerr ever play anyone evil? She was talented but I don't think she had that in her or we would have seen it.

I still think (if she was slimmed down at the time of shooting) Judy would have been a great Eve.

R379, At 4’11”?

Anne Baxter was cast in, then fired from, The Philadelphia Story - the play.. (As Dinah Lord, Tracy's little sister.)

At least she was shorter than Bette, r380!

R381, Ha! Even I went on with the show... in Chicago.

R383 . . .

Lee Radziwill in The Philadelphia Story in 1967...I'm not seeing the connection to All About Eve, here.

How anyone could mention the cast of SINCE YOU WENT AWAY and neglect to remind us it was the film debut of Guy Madison is beyond me.

I adore Mank's A LETTER TO THREE WIVES and have never understood why it hasn't been more appreciated on DataLounge.

Which one of Bette's husbands had the fabulous ass that caused her to nickname her Academy Award statuette Oscar (supposedly after his middle name)? Or is Bette's credit as nicknaming the award merely an urban Hollywood legend?

Supposedly, Bette's consistently good behavior and happy demeanor on the set of AAE was due to her belief and confidence in the script and in Mankiewicz and her daily/nightly fucking with Gary Merrill.

Joi Lansing looks like Mitzi Gaynor.

Joi Lansing was like a talent-free version of Mitzi Gaynor.

R297, Mankeiwitz talked about how the film would have been different with Colbert. He pointed out that Bette's Margo is the star of Tallullah-esque melodramas. Colbert would have been more like Ina Claire. So her Margo would have been the star of more light comedy and romantic drama.

I think looking at her work, Colbert's Margo would probably have been more lethal. Those lines that Davis makes theatrical would have been tossed off more lightly making a Margo whose iron fist is concealed by a velvet glove. If you imagine the great lines and scenes as they would have been acted by Colbert, you can see it would have been a different film.

TRIVIA: Colbert had two scripts written for her in which a character goes by the names "Eve" and "Harrington." yet Colbert ended up not appearing in either.

What was the other film?

If you want to get a sense of what AAE would have been like had Bette David not been in it, just watch Mank's A Letter to 3 Wives which has the same kind of witty bitchiness, sparkling dialogue , female energy and Thelma Ritter. You'll also see Jeanne Crain in a leading role and be very grateful she got pregnant and was replaced by Anne Baxter in AAE.

R394, And Jeanne Crain received top billing!

R395 She was the biggest box office star at the time.

In 1949, the year A Letter To Three Wives came out, she starred in Pinky, directed by Elia Kazan, one the 10 top grossing film of the year according to Wikipedia.

I actually like Jeanne Crain in ALTTW.

R397 must be a relative.

R396, The billing was also alphabetical.

I like Crain too in ALTTW and Pinky, but as Eve she'd have been a lamb in sheep's clothing.

In Pinky, all I can say is she's no Fredi Washington!

[quote]If you imagine the great lines and scenes as they would have been acted by Colbert, you can see it would have been a different film.

And an inferior one. It's Bette's electricity that makes "All About Eve" the classic that it is. As Addison notes, Margo was a star from the moment she first stepped onto a stage. If Colbert had played Margo, we would have had to take the screenplay's word for that.

Anne Baxter > Jeanne Crain

I adore Jeanne Crain and her histrionics in "Hot Rods to Hell."

[quote]I adore Jeanne Crain and her histrionics in "Hot Rods to Hell."

This movie reunited Jeanne Crain and Dana Andrews 20 years after they were romantically paired in Rodgers and Hammerstein's only movie musical, "State Fair." Bobby Darin and DL fave Pamela Tiffin played their roles in the terrible 1962 remake, which also featured Ann-Margret, Pat Boone and, in her big-screen comeback, Alice Faye.

R405 They also co-starred in Duel In The Jungle (1954) and Madison Avenue (1961).

Am I the only person who finds the opening narration WAY overlong and always fast forwards through it?

R407, Do you also fast forward through the burning of Atlanta when you watch “Gone With the Wind”?

R408 I have never been able to sit through GWTW!

[quote]Am I the only person who finds the opening narration WAY overlong and always fast forwards through it?

I would never fast-forward through it because I wouldn't want to miss that brilliant shot of Margo Channing seated at the table and using her Bette Davis Eyes to shoot Eve Harrington the death ray.

I mean sure, it's long but it needed to be to set everything up.

I love this film and can watch it over and over. The only thing I don't care for is all the smoking.

R411 Then you shouldn't be watching a Bette Davis film.

Lane Bradbury's entertaining real life backstage stories from "The Night of the Iguana" have a touch of "All About Eve" about them:

After I got fired from Gypsy I had a brief time when I didn’t have any work and then in late 1961 I auditioned for the Tennessee Williams play, The Night of the Iguana. Bette Davis was starring in it and I tried out for the part of Charlotte Goodall—which was a very emotional role—and I got the part. It was really, really hard, though, as the character goes on stage hysterical and comes off even more hysterical—all in the space of three minutes! A lot of times Tennessee Williams’ words help an actor get to where she needs to be but they didn’t in this case…I just had to do it all on my own, eight times a week, for, like, eleven months. Believe me, that’s hard duty and it was extremely draining.

I must say, a lot of my experiences on Broadway were not all that great. A lot of people are crazy, you know, and at that point in my life I was a little crazy, too. I think if I did it again, with what I know now and with the life experiences I’ve had, I would know how to counteract some of that craziness, but I didn’t at the time. I mean, I had no clue. Out-of-town with Night of the Iguana was a disaster. Patricia Roe, a co-star in the play, and I were getting all the good reviews for a while, and I’m afraid it caused some whiplash. I remember Paula Prentiss, who was the understudy of Bette Davis (and also the producer’s wife), coming up to me one night outside the theater, screaming, “You are fucking up the whole show! Nobody can hear you.” Which was an odd thing to say since Pat Roe and I were getting really good reviews. But you know, I guess Paula needed somebody to dump on that night, and since she couldn’t dump on Bette Davis, I got it! (laughs)

Each night during the play’s initial run in Chicago, I would sit and prepare my lines right next to where I would have to go on stage. I remember one evening Bette Davis walking by me and giving me a very dirty look. Well, the next thing you know, she’s talking to the stage manager who then comes over to tell me that I couldn’t prepare my scenes there anymore and that from then on I would have to go down four flights of stairs to the basement to wait for my cue and then run up just in time to go on stage. The whole situation was very upsetting to me but actually it only helped me. You know, Charlotte Goodall was hysterical and so was Lane Bradbury from this kind of lousy treatment!

Anyway, Night of the Iguana finally opened on Broadway and we were a big hit. Even though I had a contract to be with the show for a year, near the end of my run I was offered a role in Edward Albee’s play Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, so I left the show one month early so I could do it. However, since I was still emotionally exhausted from Night of the Iguana I decided to coast a little bit in the first rehearsals for Virginia Woolf, and the producers wound up firing me. They replaced me with Bonnie Bedelia. It was a big disappointment but you know, it was all my own doing. I was on an emotional edge from Night of the Iguana and I just allowed my life to negatively effect my work. That was a hard lesson to learn.

Was there another Paula Prentiss? because I don't think that's the Paula Prentiss who's married to Richard Benjamin.

It was Paula Laurance, r414.

^Laurence

Paula Laurence...

Paula was married to stage producer/director Charles Bowden.

Good catches R414 R415 R418 and thanks for the correction. I cut and paste from a transcribed interview with Bradbury and didn't notice that error. Sorry Paula Prentiss, wherever you are!

Ann Prentiss would have got you for that.

Ann could have played Eve in a remake.

[quote]I love this film and can watch it over and over. The only thing I don't care for is all the smoking.

Everyone working in the theater, and just about everyone not working in the theater, smoked in 1950. Even goody two-shoes Celeste Holm is seen lighting up at some point. Deal with it or don't watch old movies. What a ridiculous thing to mention.

I have a CD with old Broadway performances and there are a couple with Paula Laurence, from Something For The Boys. I think she was either in it with Ethel Merman or took over from Merman. Betty Garrett is on one or two with her. I guess she never really made the big time, but she was good.

I like the effect of smoking in old movies. I think actors and directors loved cigarettes because they lend themselves to expressiveness between words. Lighting a cigarette with shaky hands shows agitation, someone can take a puff in such a way as to show anxiety, or in a carefree way to show they are nonplussed, or they can do it aggressively and blow smoke in a person's face, which is like a nonviolent assault. It's a great histrionic accessory.

Bette Davis said that an actor can show a range of emotions with a cigarette, without saying a word. That was why cigarettes were her favorite props.

[quote]That was why cigarettes were her favorite props.

I'm sure it had a tad to do with nicotine addiction.

Cigarettes also give actors something to do with their hands, which can be awkward for an actor on camera otherwise. In real life, we don't think about what we do with our hands but actors consider their whole physicality and if nothing is indicated in the script and there's nothing particularly expressive in the dialogue, hands can become something distracting that actors are hyper-conscious of. Put a cigarette in their hand and suddenly the hands know what to do with themselves.

R426 And as revenue!

Smoke could be very atmospheric.

Marilyn only had five minutes on camera, and she was FANTASTIC!

R419, also, Ms. Bradury got the name of the actress who replaced her wrong. It was Mia Dillon, not Bonnie Bedelia.

Maybe she was confused since Mia/Linda/Melinda went by so many names during her career. But Bonnie Bedelia was not one of them.

Mia and Melinda Dillon aren't the same person, r431.

Mia Dillon was 20 years younger than Melinda, but they both were wonderful actresses.

Melinda Dillon was the original Honey in "Virginia Woolf," not Mia Dillon.

And Bonnie was 14 years old when "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf" was being cast; a little young for Honey.

Regarding the lesbian theme, it’s the end of party scene that always struck me:

Margo: Eve would take my clothes off… tuck me in, wouldn’t you Eve?

Eve: If you’d like.

Margo: I wouldn’t like.

^the film is brilliantly gay

Back then women were more affectionate than they are now, they were unselfconsciously physical. My mom and her friends were always kissing hello or goodbye, etc. It wasn't dikey. However I do think Eve is a les.

R437, Max, you sly puss.

R439, that line is just a reminder how many great lines are in that film.

Someone I knew years ago named their cat "Max, you sly puss.."