British Museum refuses to return to Ethiopia objects it refuses to display

The non-paywall version

also, here's where we recently talked ad nauseum about the Elgin Marbles

Shame, Britain, Shame!!

The British Museum is somewhat screwed in these situations, because the government passed a law in 1963 saying they cannot actually return anything in their possession, everything they own has to be kept under penalty of law. This law was upheld in 2005 with regard to Jewish-owned art stolen by Nazis that ended up in the British Museum. There was such an outcry by historians and museum officials that in 2009 the government passed a law specifically about the Nazi art to allow it to go back to the original families, but they were clear that this was a singular exception.

I think the UK government is going to be standing in the way of progress for a very long time.

[quote] I think the UK government is going to be standing in the way of progress for a very long time.

How much influence does Charles have in these decisions? Because he always seemed spineless and would give in and send antiquities back to their country.

Give in to what, exactly? Reason? Britain doesn't have enough history of its own, it has to show off its imperial loot? Shameful.

This will all be returned decades from now as the debate is pretty much settled in the museum circles, it's just a matter of political will to change the law.

Everyone knows that if the Parthenon (Elgin) pieces are returned to Greece, they will hock them to the rich Saudis in a New York minute.

Greece has been favored with a beautiful location and wonderful goods to export and they still can’t get themselves together financially.

R5 the king Charles is only for decorum, he has no real power, the government is elected by the british people, and has the power when it comes to make laws. The royal family doesn't have the right to vote.

[quote] it's just a matter of political will to change the law.

And why would there be a political will to change the law? The only reason there would be a change is if it started hurting the UK economically or diplomatically, and unfortunately for any country that isn't India or China whose artefacts the British Museum is currently sitting on they're not and are not likely to be in any position to do that.

[quote]the BM says "no".

Their favorite word.

Thank you, OP, although your side-step into making certain we understand you don't believe in "holiness" of objects is peculiar and irrelevant to the issue at hand.

R11, normally anything even mentioning religion prompts much DL hand wringing over "My Own Deep Emotional Scar From Religious Indoctrination At The Hands Of Mrs. Amos During Macaroni Art Time In Vacation Bible School In Paducah, Kentucky Circa 1987".

So I was just trying to get past the inevitable digression. But if we must, we can go down that rabbit hole.

Greece only began properly maintaining their artifacts in the '90s. With their perpetual instability, it is not out of the realm of possibility artifact maintenance will go out the window again.

Artifacts from the ME and Africa would have long been destroyed because Allah commands such.

Asian artifacts would be lost to private ownership. Not that there aren't similar issues in the western world, but not to the same extent as the East.

These treasures exist because western ideology prized their safekeeping. I hope the BM doesn't give in to the current demands.

"Artifacts from the ME and Africa would have long been destroyed because Allah commands such."

Not sure this one understands the religious demography of Africa

[quote] Artifacts from the ME and Africa would have long been destroyed because Allah commands such.

Long been??? The Bamiyan Buddhas were blown up by Muslim Taliban in 2001.

Probably 90% or more of non-European material in European museums wouldn't even exist if it hadn't been collected (usually entirely freely and not remotely stolen or 'looted', to use the preferred and usually inaccurate progressive term) in the 17th-20th centuries. For European material, it's probably more like 40-50% likely to have survived, so it was still good to have it incorporated into museums. (Talking material culture here, not fine art.)

the thing that's funny to me about what r16 says is that the shit was literally in the country in fine condition

This is what cultures have always done - take without permission. Don't dress it up now under "here's how much we invest in security and preservation". Bitch, just say "we took it even though you didn't want us to, and we're keeping it and we're not gonna pretend that there's anything more to it than that. And also the money we get from people coming to see the shit we took from you".

Soon the trolls will come to convince us that these objects weren’t plundered at all but we’re given as gifts to the British…

Actually R17 back when they were taken the countries didn't protest at the materials being taken

“You love to make me hit you!”

R17, tons of it is organic, for example - wood, textiles etc, or otherwise fragile or made for practical use - they would have simply disappeared through damage, usage, climate and so on, not to mention the impact of religious and political changes, so even the context has changed beyond imagining and their is no living tradition to utilise. Even stone and metal suffers over time, use and neglect. Only them ending up in specialist institutions has enabled much of this material to survive. Often virtually nothing else datable to that period with solid provenances, so the minuscule fraction of material that was acquired out of all that existed, especially from non-literate cultures, is what we now have to use to investigate these areas' history and culture, along with the comments of the collectors and the evidence from other literate cultures that visited the relevant areas (European, Chinese, Islamic). Archaeology can be useful sometimes, but doesn't have much to offer in the Tropics and where ceramics and metal-working were little known.

R19 It's hard to complain with a boot on your throat.

[Quote] Actually [R17] back when they were taken the countries didn't protest at the materials being taken

How does one protest when a country is invading you exactly?

Yes, R17, tale as old as time. Clans have been taking from others since the beginning of civilization. To the victor goes the spoils.

I agree that museums should just give important shit back - in today's world they can 3D print copies if they want. I saw an amazing touring exhibition in the Egyptian Museum in Barcelona that was entirely 3D printed items.