Should NY indict Trump?

After what the bastards put Hillary through with those forty Benghazi investigations, I say indict away. The more time he's tied up in the courts, the less time he has to campaign.

Saying this or that guarantees a Trump (or a Biden) presidency is delusional. We don't know anything and the election is more than a year away.

Lol the marxists and their delusions. Always so enjoyable.

r2 = delusional MAGA

Love the block function.

R2 has no clue what a real Marxist is lol.

Look, they put Michael Cohen in prison for this. So if they got a conviction on the guy who did this at Trump's behest, why do people think Trump might skate? He's going to get convicted. I guess by weak some of us wish he would get indicted for Seditious Conspiracy and violations like tampering with the votes inciting an insurrection, and stealing and hiding top secret documents in violation of the Espionage act. I hope that comes true. But for now, let's start with this. Because he did it! I have this fantasy, that starting with this appetizer, Trump is in for a banquet of indictments each one more complex and serious. For the rest of his natural life he will get nicked with razor cuts of charges and lawsuits, and do a slow bleed, spending money he doesn't have, scared of going to prison, and embarrassing himself like the pathetic POS he is.

Marxist? I'll eat my hat if this rube throwing out the word "Marxist" has ever read Marx's work. I'll bet she hasn't.

I was surprised to hear this week that the big indictment is related to the Stormy Daniels case. I was hoping it would be over something more serious. which there are PLENTY to choose from.

Meh. Georgia is bringing indictments. Florida is bringing indictments. DC is bringing indictments.

NYC and the campaign finance fraud are just an appetizer, honey. They're crimes, to be sure, and Cohen already went to jail for them. Seeing as he did everything at Donald's request, the case has already been built and tried once. This is just the boss/co-conspirator.

This is what happens when you put a cheap, sleazy grifter in the White House.

I'd prefer his demise but until then I'll be satisfied with any punishment possible. Over and over.

Although part of me would like to see him forcibly removed from public life, since he won’t leave on his own, I do think that presidents and former presidents are “above the law” in the sense that, unless they commit murder or rape, it’s not worth the damage to the country to prosecute one. Ford was right to pardon Nixon.

This is just the first one to reach the courthouse. It sounds like there will be plenty more. Yeah, if one was sequencing this — which they clearly aren’t — you would start with a bigger and possibly stronger case, like the ones out of Georgia or DC. But, in the end, by the time we get to November 2024, he’ll be so tied up in legal woes that getting back into the WH will be pretty far from his major priority.

😂😂😂😂😂

All of his tribulations are so incredibly well deserved.

No, R11, I remember when it happened and the shocking disappointment I felt. Ford was 100% WRONG for pardoning Nixon. It prolonged the problems in the country and was a huge blow to American democracy.

Richard Nixon should have gone to jail. No one is above the law and that includes the president. It MUST include the president otherwise it's just an empty phrase.

[quote]Look, they put Michael Cohen in prison for this. So if they got a conviction on the guy who did this at Trump's behest, why do people think Trump might skate?

Because Michael Cohen is the one who did the dirty work. He's the one who got his hands dirty.

And there was a case like this against John Edwards, and he beat it.

This feels like a total publicity scheme cooked up by Trump. The theatrics of it all feels orchestrated. I think this is all PR, especially if he got arrested on a very weak.case.

Nah, r15, the DA is Alvin Bragg. He is not "in on it" with Trump.

R13, that’s the view of people who who disliked Nixon, which I’m sure you were one of. That’s the problem, that people only want politicians on the other side prosecuted, never their own. People who want to see Trump fry would be adamant against prosecuting Hillary. They would claim there was no basis for prosecuting her, and there’s the unequal justice. It would less divisive to let them skate by for white collar crimes.

R16 - I have a Truth Social account (don't judge me - I was curious) and Trump is breathlessly announcing he is about to get arrested at any moment. If this wasn't theater, wouldn't a former president, even Trump, be discretely arrested? Maybe not. I've never seen a president arrested.

Look, R11, no one is above the law and he's no longer President. Trump committed crimes that go to the heart of our democracy and our government. He tried to overthrow the results of a Presidential election, he committed Seditious Conspiracy, and he incited an insurrection. He didn't just back into it, he fucking planned it. He is a fucking traitor who betrayed his oath to uphold the Constitution. He has no respect for our laws or our Democracy. He needs to go to fucking prison. He probably won't, but hopefully he will go on house arrest. Serious house arrest with visitor restrictions and stripped of his social media platforms, and forbidden from participating in political activities on his own behalf or on behalf of others.

[quote]People who want to see Trump fry would be adamant against prosecuting Hillary.

On what charge? I'll wait....

The grand jury is the one who decides that. They've seen and heard all the evidence.

R19, the problem is that a major chunk of the country doesn’t believe that’s true whatsoever. Not even close. That’s what makes these things so divisive.

[quote]R19, the problem is that a major chunk of the country doesn’t believe that’s true whatsoever.

It's a small chunk. Most of the people that voted for him didn't like him, but they were stuck with him.

No one is above the law. No one. Is above. The law. No. One. Is. Above. The. Law. No one.

If they ever actually indict him, look out, stay off planes, trains, away from hospitals etc whenever you can, these cranks will go bat shit.

R17, John Edwards was indicted for his baby mama hush money payout and I didn't see too many Dems defending him

[quote] but hopefully he will go on house arrest.

As if Mar-a-Lago is a punishment

[quote]the DA is Alvin Bragg. He is not "in on it" with Trump.

No he's not

he's horrible. He's going to fuck this case up. He's shit

I love that DeSantis basically said if Trump gets arrested—oh well.

Completely dividing the MAGATs

[quote] People who want to see Trump fry would be adamant against prosecuting Hillary. They would claim there was no basis for prosecuting her, and there’s the unequal justice.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. Prosecute her for what, exactly? She was investigated endlessly by the Repukes and they found nothing. Therefore it’s unequal because she didn’t commit a crime???

Nothing will happen. Trump has skated through all of this for decades. It’s not gonna happen. Somebody just get away with shit for one reason or another. In fact, the reason why he’s like this is because there have never been repercussions for him. The legal system created this monster.

Wasn’t Trump “Individual 1” in the Cohen case? I thought that case and the Obstruction of Justice charge the Mueller Report referred to just had to wait until he was no longer President to be prosecuted. After the 2nd impeachment failed, McConnell said Trump could and should be charged in criminal court after he was out of office. Now that he isn’t President, people are saying the cases are too old and don’t matter any more. Catch 22??

I don’t get why it takes sooo long to “”investigate these cases and got indictments. It’s ridiculous when the evidence is obvious and already public. For example: “I just need you to find ### votes….” Or the FBI finding Secret documents at his home after he said he gave them all back….. how are those cases complicated?

I agree R33. Trump's criminality, his guilt is not arguable, IMO. He committed crimes in plain sight. The classified documents at Mar A Lao, the Seditious Conspiracy and Incitement to Insurrection, and the vote tampering in Georgia. Right in our faces. and then after months of vague bullshit, Garland decides to appoint a "Special Prosecutor" to investigate? W T actual F. I was real pissed off about that. Because to me, Garland is stalling and his timidity (for want of a better word) was insulting to me. The moment Biden swore Garland in, he should have announced a special Tribunal to investigate and prosecute participants in the Insurrection and the events leading up to it. I would have rounded up all those fuckers and held them under the Patriot Act or some new version of it. mass incarceration at some army base. They'd have been detained until they were investigated tried and sentenced or released. No member of Congress who refused to accept the results of the 2020 election would have been seated. They'd have been expelled. Period. And anyone who was shown to be involved in any way with the insurrection would be permanently banned from ever holding any public office in the United States. Including state and local offices. By now I'd have had Trump under house arrest with a strict limit on his visitors, and no social media, or interviews.

I want to know what this late night meeting was about.

I assume, knowing the political support Trump has, the prosecutors are making sure they have very strong cases before bringing charges.

Yeah, R36, I get that, but the law is very clear and straightforward on the documents. There are no complicated legal issues. As for inciting the insurrection, Hell, we have him on live TV. We watched it happen in real time. And the phone calls to election officials in Georgia? On tape. Multiple phone calls. We have a trail, with emails text messages and meeting notes a trail of how they planned and conspired to overturn the Presidential election going back to September of 2020. Yes we want an airtight case, but Trump has given us airtight. He is not hiding. He did all of this in plain sight and dares our criminal justice system, our legal system to do anything about it. He is defiant.

[quote] He did all of this in plain sight and dares our criminal justice system, our legal system to do anything about it. He is defiant.

And he will likely get off

r14, and unheard of ever since. Trump has done a life time of this and he needs to be exposed and break up his cult. He is calling for an insurrection, for violence over this. Expose him.

Bragg doesn’t prosecute people who pose actual physical danger to regular joes in Manhattan. People with long criminal histories of assault and aggravated theft, etc. Not saying Trump isn’t a worthy target, but Bragg is a bit inconsistent (and political) in his application of justice. But I support the prosecution of Donald Trump.

Thankfully, R34, is neither a prosecutor, judge or even a juror.

You do, however, recall shades of Judge Freisler. I hope a building doesn't fall on your head.

Meanwhile, I withhold judgment on any verdict until we know the charges and see the evidence and legal arguments.

I want him taken down on something wholly political, not sexual in nature. I know this NY case technically is political because of the campaign finance angle but it's not enough. I do not want a porn star to be his downfall. I want his authoritarian, dictatorial machinations that almost, and might still, ended democracy in America to be what takes this motherfucker down, and takes him down hard and forever.

So far this seems wholly political, and I mean that in the worst sense. These seem to be manufactured crimes as in - we see a guy and we want to prosecute him rather than we see a crime and we need to prosecute for this crime which this seems to be. A real independent prosecutor would have a real problem going forward with charges based on the word of a man like Michael Cohen - convicted of a crime of dishonesty and arguably hell bent on revenge for who he perceived was the cause of his imprisonment and ruined career.

[quote] Bragg doesn’t prosecute people who pose actual physical danger to regular joes in Manhattan. People with long criminal histories of assault and aggravated theft, etc.

such as?

[quote] So far this seems wholly political, and I mean that in the worst sense. These seem to be manufactured crimes as in - we see a guy and we want to prosecute him rather than we see a crime and we need to prosecute for this crime which this seems to be. A real independent prosecutor would have a real problem going forward with charges based on the word of a man like Michael Cohen - convicted of a crime of dishonesty and arguably hell bent on revenge for who he perceived was the cause of his imprisonment and ruined career.

Considering how long the grand jury has been sitting, Michael Cohen isn't the only witness.

One of the big pieces of news that's making the Trump lawyers go into a tizzy, is that a charge may be Trump not paying income taxes on the money he gave to Stormy

R43 It’s not just Cohen’s word. It’s his check and Trump lying about the reimbursement. It’s Stormy Daniel’s word and a photo of them together. It’s a similar payment to Karen (Playboy bunny) MacDougal. You’re falling for the Trump talking points.

“Trump’s company, the Trump Organization, “grossed up” Cohen’s reimbursement for the Daniels payment for “tax purposes,” according to federal prosecutors who filed criminal charges against the lawyer in connection with the payments in 2018.

Cohen got $360,000 plus a $60,000 bonus, for a total of $420,000.

Cohen pleaded guilty to violating federal campaign finance law in connection with the payments. Federal prosecutors say the payments amounted to illegal, unreported assistance to Trump’s campaign” - AP

r14, No. Trump didn't go to jail because of DOJ policy not to charge a sitting president. The court ruled that Cohen's crimes were committed "at the behest of individual number one".

Why waste the money?

Trump behind bars is an American Dream that is never going to happen.

You can tell that R43 doesn't even believe his own bullshit.

r43 in the *Jeffrey Marsh - Nonbinary* thread:

[quote][quote]were these drag queen molesting children during the story telling hours

[quote]They were softening them up. I think for them, this Drag Queen Story hour is pedo foreplay.

r9, georgia is HUGE, he's caught saying he needs the Georgian government to find a few thousand votes. It's treason

Well I don't care if they arrest him for spitting on the sidewalk. I want him to go down, and there is something deliciously humiliating about this braggart, this arrogant POS being brought down for hush money to a porn star. He has such a grandiose image of himself, that it seems fitting to me that he may get indicted in NYC for paying off a hooker. A whoor. I piss on him.

What was the second Georgia phone call that was talked about with the grand jury case down there?

R34 and R37...I couldn't agree more. I say it, and I'm accused of being a Russian troll or MAGAt. You are 100% correct. R38 is right, too.

it's happening. I work in midtown, around Trump tower...i hear helicopters buzzing. there must be protests etc. I don't even leave the building unless I have to.

R55 I may be mistaken but I think we are now learning that there were three calls by Trump. Recently a phone call to the Georgia House Speaker Ralston, has surfaced as well.

It seems to me now, that trump just played everyone again....especially the media, who gives him the attention and oxygen for his bullshit. This is what he does. For me, it's ....ok, I'll believe it when I see it.

[quote] I do think that presidents and former presidents are “above the law”

This has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this forum.

[quote]It seems to me now, that trump just played everyone again.

I don't think so. The grand jury heard a last minute witness on Monday. They only convene on Mondays and Wednesdays. When dumpy put out that he would be arrested Tuesday, I think the thought process was he'd be indicted Monday and arrested Tuesday. They weren't planning for the witness on Monday. I believe the grand jury will hand down the indictment today and he'll be arrested tomorrow.

Trump had a meeting at Mar a Lago to discuss the visuals of his perp walk. He seemed excited about it. Aides said the reality of what he is facing seems lost on him. He is all about appearances.

I'd say the reality of what he is facing is lost on his aides. His entire life is testament to him getting away with everything. I'm sure there's a technicality or a MAGAt juror in his future.

R62 I read something yesterday where they said Trump is furious about the Manhattan DA charging him for bullshit. He insists he did nothing wrong and arresting him for a sex charge is absurd. He goes nuts over it.

Someone on twitter suggested that Trump might have a stroke from the stress of all these criminal charges coming at him from Georgia, D.C. NYC, and Florida.

[quote]and arresting him for a sex charge is absurd.

What sex charge, r64?

I asked this in either this thread or another, but what charges involve Florida, r63?

Leave it to Dump to think this is all about a “sex charge.” As if the mere thought of Dump and sex doesn’t make most of us vomit. He thinks he’s above the law—the fact that he used campaign money for the bribe doesn’t faze him. He considers it his money!

R67, isn't the classified documents going to be federal charges but in Florida? I'm not sure.

That's what I'm assuming, r69.

Just a reminder...

They're making a big deal out of "Former PResident." but he was not a legitimate POTUS. Just like right now they're admitting and confirming that Reagan manipulated the hostage crisis and sabotaged the hostage negotiations to block t he return of the Iranian hostages, and Bush/Cheney lied about WDS in Iraq, we will soon get confirmation that Trump stole the 2016 election.

Why does it even matter if he was the former president? Should the criminal laws be different for former presidents?

OP, I agree that the porn actress hush money case is the weakest and prosecutors should be putting all their energy behind indicting him for trying to overthrow the election in the Georgia case and January 6, for attempting a coup/obstruction of justice. The NY case is the least of the three, and I think it's a mistake to proceed with that out of the gate.

Yes. He deserves to be punished repeatedly until he croaks from the stress.

A person can be indicted in multiple jurisdictions on various charges if there’s enough evidence to warrant the proceedings. Why should this guy be exempt from that?

R74 and OP, I believe Trump should be indicted. He stole $130,000 in campaign money, donations from supporters to pay a prostitute to cover up the fact that he was having sex with her. He has committed lesser crimes...like perjury, obstruction of justice, etc. but they're still crimes. And BECAUSE he sat in that Oval office for four years, and aspires to another four, he definitely needs to be held to a higher standard. And he needs to be accountable. Accountability and facing consequences is completely appropriate. We seem to be adopting a casual attitude to public figures breaking the law. At some point we need to say enough! Because there is a trickle down effect to this kind of lawless behavior. And honestly, after watching the Trump Show for the past 8 years, I believe this man has engaged in criminal wrong doing on a regular basis. He has an"I can do whatever I want" attitude, and he's overdue for an accounting.

To say that indicting Trump in a “weak” case means he won’t be indicted in Georgia or by the DOJ is idiocy.

Does anyone think other jurisdictions control what they do, particularly when the charges are for totally different crimes? Hush money and lying about it isn’t the same thing as attempting to pressure state officials to alter the results of an election and lying about it or improperly removing and failing to secure classified documents and lying about searching for them thoroughly and not returning them.

The NY case isn’t a weak case. Anyone else would have been indicted. It’s just that it pales in comparison to trying to steal an election and leading an insurrection.

Look at how long each and every member of the Trump shitshow has delayed and then exhausted every opportunity to avoid testifying let alone go to trial for the things they’ve done and tell me that the NY charges won’t still be pending - indicted but likely not yet tried - when Georgia and the Feds indict him.

New York State found his companies guilty and jailed his CFO. The Feds put Cohen in jail for doing his bidding. Jean Carroll’s case against for lying about rape starts next month in NYC.

He’ll be awfully busy for the next year or two.

Hey. Harvey Weinstein was tried and convicted of crimes, went to prison and then had to face more charges for other crimes, testified, was found guilty and will serve a sentence after he finishes the first sentence.

We are for Law & Order except when we're not.

Calm down, R78. It IS a weaker case than the others but of course it's a crime in the NYS case, what he's done. No one's arguing that. But it's also the hardest to prove of all the cases against him. It's going to boil down to what political capital he's going to gain from a prosecution against him that fails.

I just wish theu would fucking indict him already on the other much more serious crimes he's comitted.

*committed

Oh, the irony! Pussy grabbing Trump will be taken down by having to pay for pussy!

R84 If he were indicted by Bragg Monday, the case wouldn’t be tried until next year at the soonest. Do you think that if they have evidence, the DOJ and Georgia won’t indict him until the NYC case is over? Get real.

Friend in White Shoe firm said their attorneys refer to Bragg's office as "Alvin and the Chipmunks."

Look.There's always a possibility of losing a case. Hell. He was impeached twice but they couldn't get the votes to indict him or expel him from office. he was engaged in extortion of the Ukrainian President. He wa s withholding money and resources Congress had already allocated to Ukraine. He was pressuring the President of a foreign country to lie and say they were investigating our other PResidential candidate. It happened. The evidence was iron clad. In plain sight. And he got off. That isn't the point. He may evade conviction for any number of reasons. But His personal attorney went to jail, his chief accountant is in jail, and he should be indicted and tried. IMO the one that is the most high risk is the Insurrection. Yes. THink about it. They may get everyone else involved, but he may slip through.

R33 I've long wondered why these "investigations" tend to take so long as well. To be honest, I think it may come down to two things:

1. Before charging someone with a crime, all your ducks have to be in a row. I think the media is eager to breadcrumb the public when it comes to Trump -- put out stories about every new development and twist and turn in an investigation to make us assume they're about to indict him. But actual criminal investigations are more complex than that and there are plenty of dead-ends. Normally these happen behind-the-scenes, but when there's a big fish like Trump where people are chomping at the bit to see him held accountable, it's easy to jump to conclusions.

2. There may be some extra-legal measures being taken to obtain certain evidence they think is damning to Trump. By playing out the investigation in the media prior to charges being filed, procedural questions get sidestepped, but you also can't un-ring the bell.

Of course that doesn't mean Trump is innocent of things he's been accused of, but the reality is "guilty people" go free all the time, for one reason or another. Nobody is above the law but I do wish the media would acknowledge what is plainly obvious: taking down a very wealthy man who happens to be a former President is not the easiest thing to do. So to keep putting out these stories like it's "any day now" is irresponsible and intellectually dishonest.

I'm sorry, I said they couldn't get the votes to indict him, but they did. They brought him to trial. Twice. They couldn't get the votes to convict him. But the trial itself all the evidence, it was worth it.

WILL NY indict Trump?

No.

NY already has, R91. His trial in the matter of Ms. Carroll starts next month.

Uh, no, r92. NY nor any other state has indicted him (yet).

The case to which you're referring is a civil case, not a criminal case.

Why do you think everyone is waiting with bated breath to see if New York will indict him?

Cohen, his lawyer, already went to jail for this exact crime. The only reason Trump didn’t was because he was president at the time. Now that he’s not president, he should be charged.

We shouldn’t we talking about weak cases, we should be talking about how appalling it is that a presidential candidate did this crime